Speculative Speculation

Pat Buchanan wrote a book contemplating alternatives to war with the Nazis. One implication of Buchanan’s alternative history is the Nazis never would have existed. A more sensible policy toward Germany after he Great War would have short circuited the process that created the Nazis. His other assertion is that even if Hitler came to power, his ambitions would not have been magnified by the humiliation resulting from the Treaty of Versailles. This means the Nazis would have followed much different trajectory.

In one of Dan Carlin’s podcasts, he speculated a bit about what would have happened if the Nazis had survived World War II and continued to rule Germany. Instead of war, the British had struck a deal with the Germans so they could have a country for all German people, but not dominating the continent militarily. The result being something similar to modern Germany, in terms of territory, but run by the Nazis. The point of his thought experiment was to imagine how Nazism would evolve as a peacetime ruling ideology.

Usually, these sorts of thought experiments just assume the Nazis would have remained the evil Hollywood version we have all been trained to imagine. The rest of the fantasy has them doing awful things to all of the usual suspects. In reality, the Nazis evolved into what they were partially in response to war. Germany was turned into a munitions factory in order to wage war and that altered the nature of the Nazi party. A party ruling a complete nation, at peace with its neighbors, would have been a different party.

One outcome of the Buchanan scenario of a Germany at peace, but ruled by the Nazis is there would not have been a Holocaust. That sounds counter-intuitive, but the choice of mass murder was not the first option for the Nazis, when dealing with unwanted minority populations. War made it the default option. In a peaceful world, the most likely scenario would have been the traditional one, where Jews, gypsies, slaves and anyone else deemed undesirable would have been exiled to lands at or beyond the border.

Another probable outcome is Hitler would have been deposed at some point after peace with the rest of Europe. His personal style was appealing in the economic and political crisis of pre-war Germany and tolerable in the crisis of war. Megalomaniacs tend not to do well in stable periods. Eventually, the various classes and interests of German society would have decided they could do better than Hitler. That and the leadership of the party was full of ambitious and aggressive men willing to hatch a coup against the Fuehrer.

That means the most likely outcome of peace would have been turmoil in the party and either a collapse of authority or a series of purges similar to what happened with the Soviets. Germans are not Russians, so a period of turmoil would most likely have resulted in a some sort of stable ruling committee at the top of the party. The unbalanced lunatics and sadists would have been purged in favor of the more practical. There were a lot of Albert Speer types in the junior ranks, who knew how to run a proper society.

There are a lot of assumptions there, but that’s the nature of alternative history. If things were different, they would not be the same. Assuming the Nazis could have negotiated peace to a willing Europe and managed to get through the decade or so of intra-party squabbles to emerge as a stable ruling elite, what would the “new” Germany have evolved into as a society? It’s not something anyone thinks much about as it does not further the narrative. The Nazis are the forever black hat in the mythology of the present orthodoxy.

In all probability, the Great War veterans that founded the party would have been pushed aside, in favor of the inter-war generation from upper-class families who joined the party in the 1930’s. A guy like Albert Speer was able to rise quickly because he was smart, well educated and cultured. That means the party would have become less militaristic and more corporate. That also means German society would have evolved away from a martial order to something like a corporate order. Something like modern Europe, in fact.

Economically, the Nazis were ad hoc socialists, in that they embraced command economics as a practical solution to present problems. Ideologically, they had no economic plan. Again, Albert Speer provides some insight into what the post-peace Nazi party would have done. Companies like Mercedes, Siemens, Krupp, BASF, Deutsche Bank and others that profited doing business with the Nazis during the war, would have emerged as the dominant companies under the imaginary peacetime Nazi Germany.

It would have been the sort of corporatism we see emerging in America, where private firms get narrow monopolies and in exchange for enforcing the cultural norms desired by the ruling elite. Corporations are not supporters of civil liberties and they certainly don’t like market competition. Wherever big business prevails, freedom declines and markets collapse. Instead of being turned into a massive munitions facility, the peaceful Nazi Germans would have been turned into a national corporate conglomerate.

The point of this sort of speculation is not to better understand the past, but to better understand the present. The first half of the 20th century in Europe was the result of a great economic paradigm shift. Europe had moved from an agrarian, trading society to an industrial and urban one. The result was the great concentration of wealth and the rise of corporatism. It was not just in Germany. The Italians, Spanish, Portuguese and even the Americans saw a lot of merit in fascism. The New Dealers loved Mussolini, for a while.

When looked at from the current age, where global corporations are enthusiastically enforcing moral codes and partnering with the state to impose an order that benefits the managerial class, it suggests corporatism is inevitable or a default arrangement. The democratic state prefers dealing with a few dominant actors, so popular government encourages the concentration of capital. Eventually, those concentrations of wealth become rival power centers and then they join the state as partners in power.

Interestingly, what the Nazis imagined for Europe, where Germany sat atop a unified continent, is pretty much what the EU is today. What we have come to call globalism is taking the same concept and scaling it up to include all of the modern economies. A guy like Albert Speer, if he were alive today, would recognize what was evolving. It also means that the balance to this would be some sort of organized labor component, that includes everyone outside the managerial class. The third leg of the stool, so to speak.

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Andrew
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Andrew

In Germany there is a strong labor presence. However, unlike unions in the United States they work with the management to see that the companies remain competitive.
On a different note, it is interesting that one of the goals of the Japanese Empire was the removal of European, i.e. white people ruling Asia. The Japanese lost the war, however their goal of ridding Asia of European dominance has mostly come to pass.

joey junger
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joey junger

Hitler became a bit more hostile to labor after Georg Elser almost blew him to mince (but Hitler ended up being late to that beer hall due to a plane malfunction, I believe). That’s another place I disagree with Z-Man. Hitler had that mystical ability to dodge the big bullet (a la Castro or Saddam), and probably would have continued to do so if we didn’t win and smoke him out (like Saddam) or he didn’t put a bullet in his own head. He probably would have eventually faded into the background as a figurehead, like Paul Hindenburg, but I… Read more »

Numa
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Numa

People still don’t know what the Nazis were fighting for, and no, it’s not anything said here or elsewhere. The primary goal of Nazism (primary goal, not only goal) was to end the International Banking Cartel, which won the war and still rules the world today. People stopped being redpilled properly in the economic question of the war after the massive influx of Libertarians in the election years. I suggest to everyone to read: “Web of Debt, by Ellen Brown”. It’s a book about the history of money and economics, one of the few (maybe 3) books who knows what… Read more »

Pimpkin's Nephew
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Pimpkin's Nephew

I’ll read ‘Web of Debt’ and I thank you for the recommendation. That said, I can’t agree that Hitler and his Party were fighting a banking system, primarily or even secondarily. It sounds ridiculous, the kind of argument that plumbers – with a taste for history – would make, that the fall of the Roman Empire was caused by lead poisoning. Any attempt to ‘rationalize’ the Nazi enterprise fails at the start-line, because Nazism was (after 1924) a program to seize power within a parliamentary system, by parliamentary means; ad hoc right up to Hitler’s appointment as Chancellor in January… Read more »

CCr
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CCr

You better read that book, mate, might get you a change of attitude.

Pimpkin's Nephew
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Pimpkin's Nephew

Nothing is healthier than a change of attitude. Opinion means nothing; it’s all attitude, openness to correction.

Thanks, mate.

Teach me; where can my attitude be improved?

Your attitude is healthy and good; mine needs work. Help me.

Alzaebo
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Alzaebo

Now that’s class. Tip o’ the hat, suh. Andrew Jackson was a dick, but not so much that the sadists and perverts ran away with the system as they did under the syphilitic German. Would love to read Web of Debt, appreciate the reminder- was Brown referring to the same militarized bankers that attacked Jackson when he paid off the national debt, giving us the second Bank of the United States and the Trail of Tears? (Jackson raided the sovereign Cherokee nation in Georgia when gold was discovered there.) I can see a direct line from the reinstallment of the… Read more »

joey junger
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joey junger

The “Sonderweg” theory proves that Germans were good at resisting destructive cultural currents while still having a strong welfare state (by European standards at the time). This is why populism scares the shit out of the ruling elite: they know hardly anybody is on-board with democrats or progressives (outside of fanatics) except for the bribery and gimmes. If the right offers a good and pragmatic program, it can win. Tucker Carlson is right inasmuch as Trump thinks his victory is all about him, but if McCain wasn’t a whore and Romney wasn’t a spineless robot they could have won, too.… Read more »

J. Jeffrey Baxter
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J. Jeffrey Baxter

Z – You’re a daily stop. Some days I have issues with what you write, but you are always stimulating and interesting. I side with Patrick, and I do so for this reason – Wilson lied through his teeth about not taking us to war, and then did so anyway. Had we remained on the sidelines as we were properly and Constitutionally mandated to do (no treaty can over-ride the Constitution) – the “Great” war would have ended in ’14 or early ’15 in a stalemate, with a fairly equitable treaty amongst the various parties. But Wilson was a proto-typical… Read more »

sirlancelot
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sirlancelot

” history is written by the victor ”

And Jewish controlled Hollywood has been writing that history ad nauseam. My sympathies go out to the German people for this never-ending onslaught.

Really enough is enough

Member

” history is written by the victor ”

This really never had much meaning.

LFMayor
Guest
LFMayor

Yeah, I read that same point you’re making in several Carthaginian accounts of the Punic wars.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

I agree, considering that sometimes history is written by the “victims” who started the sh*tshow.

Andrew
Guest
Andrew

Among the many blunders of post WWI was the Treaty of Versailles placing full blame of the war on Germany. People of our time can not understand what Germany was going through with unstable governments, food shortages, various political groups rioting and fighting in the streets. Then add in the devaluing of the currency and the resultant hyperinflation, the people were primed for a “savior”. Most people forget that Adolf Hitler was originally supported by the industrialists, who thought they could control him. His message was simple, bread and work. Restore the dignity of Germany and lebensraum, living space. Playing… Read more »

Guest
Guest
Guest

Agreed. Hitler came to power in no small part because the Nazis were the only party that could keep the Communists under wraps. There’s a decent chance that without Hitler, Germany would have fallen to the Communists, as East Germany did after the War.

YIH
Guest
YIH

It’s interesting, to say the least. There would be one company that likely wouldn’t have changed much war or no war – Volkswagen. The Beetle predates the war, when they shifted to war production they took the chassis design and turned it into their version of the Jeep: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_K%C3%BCbelwagen Post-war, they went back to the Beetle.

YIH
Guest
YIH

”Interestingly, what the Nazis imagined for Europe, where Germany sat atop a unified continent, is pretty much what the EU is today.” That type of EU likely would have worked, because all of ”Europe” would be under direct command of Germany as vassals (similar to how the Federal government deals with individual US states) with or without a single (Reichmark) currency. The EU as comprised today has it’s own Parliament with the Mark merged into the Euro – which doesn’t work, because each member state can set it’s own governance and economic policy. See Greece as but one example. We… Read more »

Drake
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Drake

Early WWII Nazi propaganda for a unified European Confederation was remarkably similar to the EU. All those foreign Waffen SS units were essentially fighting for that goal. Hitler killed the idea in ’43 as he was losing his mind and the war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Confederation

Worldly Wiseman
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Worldly Wiseman

EU is primarily French project with Germany added later on. In the 80’s Germany was (in economic terms) European sick man.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

After the early 1950s, Germany was never a “sick man of Europe”. The EU was largely a French concoction, but it was done in part to contain Germany, not support it.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

A conservative friend retorted that Uncle Dolphie started the war by striking in all directions.

I have no answer. Why did he do so?

—————————–
Oops, almost forgot-
My nose is stuffed up, I’m coughing…
I blame Jewcus!
(h/t to Tax Slave)

Tax Slave
Guest
Tax Slave

Albert Speer is alive and well.
comment image

Tamaqua
Guest
Tamaqua

Buchanan has a blind spot here, claiming that somehow the Nazis would have become more tractable and mainstream “conservative” if we had done some things differently. If they had, they would no longer be Nazis. The nominal conservatives and establishment thought they could control Hitler and his movement when he became Chancellor in 1933. They thought he was becoming “moderate” when he decapitated the SA in 1934. We know now he had no intentions whatsoever of moderation, nor of being satisfied with simply reversing the verdict of Versailles and restoring German borders as they were before 1914. There was nothing… Read more »

Member

The big reason Keynes had the ear of so many people is because he correctly predicted the outcome of Versailles, not because of his book on the theory of employment, interest and money, which was basically unreadable. That was popularized by subsequent interpretors. There is a good theory that Hitler realized that he’d painted himself into a corner with heavy wage and price controls in peacetime and initiated a war economy in order to avoid the chaos that would have resulted after necessary corrections, which would have destroyed the image of him as economic wonder worker. Reading Speer’s book, Inside… Read more »

Glen Filthie
Guest
Glen Filthie

Hmpffff. One of the hallmarks of successful empires is a means of controlled succession. Consider the Mongols, perched on the eastern borders of Europe with nothing but easy pickings in front of them: The Khan dies back home, everyone goes back home to fight for control… And the empire goes into decline. I think the same would have happened to the Nazis if you tried to depose the great war types that built the party and led it. A massive dog fight, political cleansing, possible civil war with consequences that might have started an alternate version of WW2.

Kentucky Headhunter
Guest

Anybody here watched Babylon Berlin? Have any thoughts on it?

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

The only two takeaways I got from it were that German society was chaotic and broadly criminalized at the time, and bad totalitarian political movements were percolating. Read the book (the source of the miniseries) and half of the characters are gone, and almost all of the main plot points and events are completely different, like a parallel universe.

Which is halfway relevant to today’s conversation, the crux of it being whether you end up roughly in the same place in history, no matter the players and the details? That is the question Z-man is throwing at us today.

Kentucky Headhunter
Guest

How would you rate the book?
I’ve only seen 3-4 episodes on the show so far. Worth finishing the season in your opinion?

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

As a Weimar Germany version of a police procedural crossed with a soap opera, the miniseries works, if you are into that sort of thing. Some of the coincidences and situations that make the plot move are rather far-fetched, which typically come with the crime mystery story-telling territory. The visual detail of the miniseries is awesome, for the most part. It touches on quite a few traditionally culturally forbidden things in German history to talk about—perhaps things have loosened up in recent decades. There are all sorts of underlying themes, the undercurrent of residual fondness for the Bismarck years and… Read more »

JamesG
Guest

I got a kick out of that “non-stop” elevator and the two young women renting a bath tub for 15 minutes.

Otherwise, okay. And a change from all the USA, British and (occasional) French we see all the time.

Wm.
Guest
Wm.

Predicting possible futures is always fun but more applicable to science fiction than socio-politcal speculations. Churchill created animosity both in England and among the Allies by trying to convince the world that the economic burden placed on Germany was going to backfire, which it did. Then, proof of the worthless restrictions placed on Germany, the nations that became the Allies ignored the pre-war military buildup in Germany. The double whammy of war debts and the world wide depression are in large part the cause of Germany’s turn to Hitler. The German elites were smart enough to realize that the war… Read more »

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

I would argue somewhat against “Germany turning to Hitler”. His party was one of many movements across the political spectrum, and the moment that got to the top of the political heap, with a plurality of votes but nowhere near a majority, it struck to protect its position by infiltrating and manipulating the rest of the political system. Combining an aggressive, brutal, and vengeful presence in the streets, along with a carefully crafted political campaign designed to appeal to emotion, not logic, and there you are. The German people, after a certain point, were along for the ride, whether they… Read more »

james wilson
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james wilson

Without the Federal Reserve Act, the Great War is just the War of 1914. A six month stalemate and a long negotiated settlement. No Fed=no Money. Next, the tragedy of Versailles treaty. Then after a fifteen year pregnancy the Fed delivers the Great Depression. Now Uncle Dolphie is charged and ready to go. But perhaps none of these factors has the corrosive effect that Democracy did in Germany. They call it the Wiemar Republic as if it were something special, peculiar, one off. It wasn’t. Perhaps the important lesson for what is going on around us right now is what… Read more »

robins111
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robins111

Franco was a Monarchist, the suggestion he was a facist was because early in the revolution he forced the amalgamation of the Carlist (a monarchist faction) and the Falange (Spanish Facist) then assumed total control of the new entity. At that time infighting between the factions in the revolution were causing significant problems. In fact he jailed the former leader of the Falange and put a death sentence on him (Never carried out). In 1948 when the Falange got uppity he destroyed the leaders and dedicated members.

Rube Goldberg
Guest
Rube Goldberg

Without the chicken farmer how far would the mystic homo erotic ceremony surrounding the SS and the final solution have gone?

LFMayor
Guest
LFMayor

It’s fun and easy to talk big smart from the safety of an ocean and seventy years as moats.
I’ve noticed this with the pink triangles symbol thing too that ThaGheyz think is so cute. Bet your ass nobody was laughing about it in 1938 though, now were they?

Eddie
Guest
Eddie

TLDR: A non-militaristic, non-genocidal Nazi Party would be a contradiction in terms. Those were defining traits from the start, not some later distortion imposed on them, and the argument Z is making does not bear scrutiny. . . . As a basic matter of history, Germany’s military buildup began as soon as Hitler took office, and clearly preceded that of France and England. This is not in dispute. Moreover, as others have observed, Germany actively sought out conflict by relentless expansionism. Even if you want to be extremely generous and say that Hitler’s claims on German-speaking places like the Sudentenland… Read more »

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Nazi Germany relentlessly chose to expand geographically, as a fundamental part of its reason to exist. The “nationalist” side of “national socialism”. The communists had a similar notion, but they were more about capturing people and the national geography part was somewhat incidental. The “international” element of communism. Totalitarian movements of all sorts have a “grow or die” mentality about them, that put them in constant conflict with others who likely would simply prefer to be left alone. The Russian communist experience is instructive to this conversation, because the aggressive and often violent movement to “free the oppressed workers” was… Read more »

TRX
Guest
TRX

> Another probable outcome is Hitler would have been deposed at some point after peace with the rest of Europe. — Probably not. Hitler had control of the military by law, by custom, and by personal oaths of the ranking officers; he had remarkably little control over the civilian sector, which was run by the national Party and the gaus. Nazi Germany was far from the absolute dictatorship most people assume. The best single volume describing this is probably Speer’s “Inside the Third Reich.” A postwar Germany no longer following an expansionist policy would probably function much the same no… Read more »

Member

As far as resembling a feudal system, it depends on what kind of feudal system we are talking about. There was no serfdom per se, but neither was there in the feudal system referred to as the old regime at the time of the French Revolution. The way I think of it having resemblance is in the multiple layers of hierarchy and the way that traditional German political and cultural structures interacted with the Nazi structure. There were constant conflicts, disagreements and questions as to whose jurisdiction covered something and who was responsible. This resulted in a lot of seemingly… Read more »

greyenlightenment
Guest

Hitler was already pretty ill during his final years. he likely would have died in the 50’s and be replaced by someone more moderate, similar to what happened to Russia and China

Spud Boy
Guest
Spud Boy

Some have called the EU the method by which Germany takes over Europe without firing a shot, so it makes sense that the EU has evolved to look like some hypothetical version of Germany.

Dupont Circle
Guest
Dupont Circle

The Nazis felt that modern art was corrupting the German race. They stripped 16,000 artworks from German museums and used 650 of these proscribed images to stage a series of exhibitions called Entartete Kunst (Degenerate Art) beginning in 1937. The purpose of which was to instill in the German public a feeling that these images were anti-German, the vast majority of which held no overt anti-German content. The Nazis simply decided which images were permissible and which images weren’t in order to facilitate the removal of groups they were opposed to. Think of the now growing defenestration of monuments and… Read more »

LFMayor
Guest
LFMayor

There’s a documentary that used to be available via Netflix called The Rape Of Europa. It gave a good account of the reasoning behind the art bans. Enough that I found myself agreeing

Herodian
Guest
Herodian

Most of the alternate theories on Germany seem to assume Stalin and the USSR would have stayed as they were. We should remember that an industrialized Europe and Germany would be dependent on oil, which they had relatively little of. The Nazis might have made a big deal out of Lebensraum and such, but what they were really after by breaking the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact was the massive oil wells in the Caspian Sea area, hence the decisive battle happening at Stalingrad, which was the major distribution center for Soviet oil coming from the Caucasus. If Germany had not invaded the… Read more »

Pimpkin's Nephew
Guest
Pimpkin's Nephew

Could be, but I don’t think so. Hitler didn’t invade Ukraine and other sections of the USSR just to get at the Caspian oil fields a thousand miles away; he wanted the Ukraine. Food – or the lack of it – proved crucial in the defeat of 1918; seizing the Ukraine was a solution to the recurrence of this problem. Thus, as of June 22, 1941, Hitler’s goal was to reclaim the old Brest-Litovsk boundaries of early 1918; however, the dizzying success of his armies over the coming weeks went to his head and all his ideas changed – as… Read more »

Al from da Nort
Guest
Al from da Nort

Herodian; Romania was an alternate (but insufficient) source of oil to the USSR or what came in via tankers through Hamburg, etc. before the war. There is a fascinating, but highly underreported case made that Stalin was poised to attack Hitler later in the summer of 1941* in order to institute world-wide communism. In this telling, Hitler struck first in order to safeguard and secure the resources he needed to fight the English and the only sorta neutral US, oil supplies being foremost but far from the only important ones. That’s why the Wehrmacht was so easily able to run… Read more »

Herodian
Guest
Herodian

“Romania was an alternate (but insufficient) source of oil to the USSR…”

You must mean Nazi Germany. After Germany declared war on the USSR, most of their oil was supplied by Romania. By the time Romania switched sides and joined the Allies, it was pretty much over and Germany was well in retreat.

At any rate, it’s hard to imagine the USSR simply keeping their business within their borders and not ever making a power play for Europe, particularly given their internationalist ideology.

Al from da Nort
Guest
Al from da Nort

Herodian; I largely agree with what you said. Other than the USSR, Romania was the only significant source of oil for Germany once the Allies cut Europe off from overseas supply, and that was never enough. Perhaps a poor choice of word order on my part caused some confusion. Romania became a willing ally of Germany after Stalin grabbed a province from them in 1940 via threat of invasion. Romania switched sides to the Allies once the Red Army invaded them: They had no choice in the matter. Stalin demanded and got significant supplies of fuel from the US after… Read more »

Karl Horst (Germany)
Guest
Karl Horst (Germany)

When you say “…and others that profited doing business with the Nazis during the war.” I take that to mean Ford, Kodak, IBM, etc. At least have the courage to list just a few of the many American companies that profited from Nazi rule. There’s no doubt American bankers did quite well also. Let us be clear – there’s a huge gap between how German and American companies view and manage their employees. The relationship between professionals and skilled labor in Germany still remains respectful and bound in a common effort to ensure everyone’s benefit for a successful and profitable… Read more »

Whatever
Guest
Whatever

And now Karl watch all of that wash away in a generation as you mass import Muslims and destroy your own country.

Until then we have great German companies like VW cheating on emissions scandals.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Those arbitrary emissions standards and lawsuits are a way to twist Merkel’s arm into accepting Hillary’s ‘immigrants’.
Pure extortion.

Pimpkin's Nephew
Guest
Pimpkin's Nephew

It’s not unreasonable to imagine a post-war settlement in 1945 leaving men like Albert Speer in authority. Or Goring, who was still around when the trials began. We used to laugh at expressions bubbling up in the Obama years, when John Kerry talked about negotiating with the “moderate Taliban”. Well, why not “moderate Nazis”? As a kid, the Irish Republican Army meant to me hand-grenades in baby carriages, families blown apart in London department stores; but now, they’re just “part of the gang” in the UK Parliament. Menachem Begin, once premier of Israel, was an old terrorist, as was of… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Thread winner. Excellent.

Brooklyn
Guest
Brooklyn

“The point of his thought experiment was to imagine how Nazism would evolve as a peacetime ruling ideology.” Science Fiction tend to lean towards something similar to what happened to the Soviets happening – a post-Hitler era flows eventually into the equivalent of a Brezhnev stagnation. That usually ignores the idea that Germany would have probably been much more economically dynamic than the Soviets but the idea that an authoritarian state would end up freezing itself ideologically and that this would have some much broader, negative effect isn’t far-fetched. A more modern view since we are in a post-Soviet era… Read more »

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

The corporatized NAZIS would have stopped all explicit euthanasia operations, but would have achieved the same end by working slaves to death and denying them medical care.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Instead, they were trying to deport them.
Had they kept them, kept quiet about slave factories, and bought off hostilities (made treaties) keeping only their 1938 gains, they might’ve been as celebrated by the Left as the Soviets or Cuba.

Would the Left then have taken a different direction as well?

Vickpm
Guest
Vickpm

Zman is jaded by US upbringing. German/Nazi internicine fIghting would continue in times of relative peace just as it did between WWI and WWII. (Night of the Long Knives.) Nothing would bring an end to this essentially Euro type of national intrigue. What did somewhat pacify this situation temporarily was utter urban destruction followed by US occupation after WWII. Several insurrections were put down in eastern and western sectors. The most stable period ensued until the 1991 collapse of the USSR. Germany and Europe are now gradually devolving to the pre WWII state and enduring various mass migrations. Otherwise Germany… Read more »

Cloudswrest
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Cloudswrest

“Then there is this tidbit later in the column. Williamson writes “If you want to know who actually has the power in our society and who is actually marginalized, ask which ideas get you sponsorships from Google and Pepsi and which get you fired.” No doubt he was thinking of the internet meme, probably thinking the quote is from Voltaire. The line is actually from an old white nationalist named Kevin Alfred Strom. Dumb people tend to believe what they see on the internet, without making sure of the source and accuracy.” What’s the point of this paragraph? That he… Read more »