Lost Boys

A thing you get used to on this side of the great divide is seeing people go through the transformation. It’s like seeing a blind man suddenly given the gift of sight. At secret handshake events, a topic of conversation is “how you got here.” By that it means the book, event or person that finally opened your eyes to the reality of the world. For a lot of people, the absurdity of libertarianism was the gateway. Others found an old book by a banished writer, who used to be in the mainstream of conservative thought.

Not everyone makes the trip. Some people are so immersed in the prevailing morality that they will probably never find their way out. It’s not a matter of intelligence. We have plenty of mediocre minds on this side of the divide. It is the inability to step out of the old morality, the prevailing set of rules about what defines the moral person and what describes the immoral person. It’s not fear either, although that is often a big part of it. There are just some people who see Ben Shapiro as the great barrier after which is nothingness.

This article at PJ Media is a good example. The writer is unknown to me and probably unknown to everyone. The first thing to notice about the article is the caption on the picture is a lie. It is a deliberate lie, as well. That was not “white supremacists” surrounding counter protesters.” Nothing of the sort happened. That was a flash mob the night before Charlottesville. The lie, however, says something. It shows that the people at PJ Media are deep in the weeds of the Progressive moral framework. They accept all of it.

The setup of the post strikes me as contrived, but putting that aside, his response about tribalism is the standard CivNat spasm we see in response to biological reality. He writes, “An America where every group is primarily loyal to its own country of origin or race is an America without a bright future.” No quarrel there, which is exactly why all the sub-groups of the Dissident Right exist. They have come to understand that America is being balkanized by mass immigration, the racial awareness of non-whites and identity politics.

Then there is this. “Are most people inherently tribal? Absolutely. Our natural tendency as humans is to split ourselves off in different ways.” This is true, but there are no multi-racial tribes. In fact, we don’t have multi-ethnic tribes. The various tribes in Italy were bound together by blood, just as the Irish clans were bound together by blood. That’s a perfect example of the obtuseness of people unable to shake themselves free of the prevailing moral order. They will use the most ridiculous reasons to avoid facing basic reality.

Towards the end, we see this obtuseness again when he writes, “I think “civilizational ability” is something that should be chalked up to culture, not race. The most successful nations have been those that have adopted the tenets of Western civilization.” This is right out of the CivNat playbook. It is the most absurd form of circular reasoning, but it allows the timid to avoid noticing. It’s also a basic premise of Progressivism. The West is what it is by sheer dumb luck and that’s the root of white supremacy and all the evils tied to it.

No, the reason Europe began to race ahead of the world five centuries ago is the human capital of Europe was simply better than what populated the rest of the world. Sure, geography, history and chance came together to make the humans of Europe, but that’s true everywhere. That’s called evolution. It is a basic bit of reality that human evolution is copious, recent and local. Europeans can no more be blamed for being white than Africans can be blamed for being African. It’s just a fact of the human condition.

Now to be fair, the writer avoided most of the clownish virtue signalling that defines the people calling themselves conservative these days. The emptiness of conservatism, as well as it is ineffectiveness, leaves little for the conservative writer to do other than virtue signal. This guy at least acknowledged that the swelling ranks to his right are not simply evil, but motivated by facts and reason. He disagrees with those facts, but he has no choice, as to do otherwise means packing up and making the trip to our side.

The point of this is that you can’t save everyone. In fact, if someone from our side were to sit down with John Hawkins and explain the facts of life, he would probably nod along, but then go right back to chanting the old slogans again. Those old slogans and beliefs are comforting and require no risk. Thoreau was wrong. The mass of men do not lead lives of quiet desperation. The mass of men live in mortal fear that they will one day find themselves alone, separated from the pack, facing the dangers of the world alone.

That’s frustrating for many on this side, They wonder how it is that otherwise smart people like a John Hawkins can remain trapped on the other side. The fact is, you can’t save everyone and we don’t have to save everyone. The way these things work is you change the minds that can be changed and eventually, you have enough numbers to offer comfort to those who fear separation from the herd. You offer them a new and better herd in which they can find fellowship and comfort. That’s a how a counter-cultural movement works.

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Greg Culver
Greg Culver
2 years ago

I’ve worked with incredibly intelligent people of all ethnicities, , Black, Asian, Indian… Again: Race is irrelevant. Culture that supports life long learning attitudes and hard work goes a very long way in the world. way way way more white people on food stamps than any other race. Tis not even close America never has been all white, and it never will be. The Indians of course were here long before us European folk. It’s possible, some say likely, that others too immigrated: Phoenicians, Polynesians, Asians. Who knows? Blacks arrived not long after white people did Rick Wilson was right.… Read more »

Alex
Alex
Reply to  Greg Culver
2 years ago

You’re a very silly man.

Juri
Juri
Reply to  Greg Culver
2 years ago

Well, how do you explain the collapse of USSR, Yugoslavia or Czechoslovakia ? The last one is best example. Those two nations are very similar but both agreed that multi ethnic country is a time bomb and better leave as friends.
Culture based things just do not work. Culture is ethnic thing and sometimes other ethnic group plays by other ethnic group rules long enough but this happens only in good times. First problem rips multi ethnic country apart. This is also why white nationalism never works. UK nationalists are too different from for example Polish nationalists.

Jaqship
Jaqship
Reply to  Juri
2 years ago

Well, Juri, how do you explain the resiliency of Switzerland’s multi-ethnicity, for *centuries*? I explain it, by my addendum to Heartiste’s formula: “diversity + proximity + CENTRALIZATION = war.” The more that Big Bro pushes for “other ethnic group plays by other ethnic group rules”, the sooner war arrives. The Swiss “central gov’t” (such as it was) always knew that if, say, a German-dominated Bern tried to bulldoze French cantons, these Bern politicians would get quite a bloody nose. So, these politicians dared not even push for an official Capital City, much less for the sort of Federal/ Central bureaucracy… Read more »

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Jaqship
2 years ago

Like libertarianism, or liberalism, or conservatism, it only works within ethnic boundaries. See non-white nations: the same boundaries apply.

As Kipling said in White Man’s Burden, me and Jack despise each other, but we know why. We have no idea what will set off Hajji over there.

Juri
Juri
Reply to  Jaqship
2 years ago

Co operation between different ethnic nationalists of course works. Switzerland is unique because all ethnic groups have land connection with their motherland. And in the Switzerland, there are conscription and all Military age males have army rifle and equipment in their home. So bad guys must think before….in US melting pot also probably exist because of 2 amendment keeping power crazy folk at bay. Unfortunately, guns are not almighty. We had lot of guns and soldiers after WW I but society was so divided that comrade Lenin succeed in the 1917.

Jaqship
Jaqship
Reply to  Juri
2 years ago

Juri, when you have decentralization, you’re quite likely to have all Military age males having army rifle and equipment in their home.
So, realistic policies and cultural etc. practices can do wonders for building trust between ethnic groups.
“Trust, but verify!”

Member
Reply to  Jaqship
2 years ago

When I was in grad school, my European Politics professor, who was Swiss, explained it very well. The various Cantons were segregated according to culture and language.

The national government is less powerful than the secregatated area governments.

rented mule
rented mule
Reply to  Juri
2 years ago

it’ll work in whatever is left of america because by god there are those of us that will NEVER quit.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Greg Culver
2 years ago

“I’ve worked with incredibly intelligent people of all ethnicities, , Black, Asian, Indian… Again: Race is irrelevant.” One does not follow from the other. There are clearly very bright blacks. But not very many compared to whites or Asians. I also suspect that the current IQ model, where IQ, or g factor, is said to be one thing, is perhaps simplistic. Why should one assume that the cognitive output value of something as abstract and complex as the human mind (or brain?) can be satifactorily mapped onto an interval of the real line between 0 and maybe 300 tops? That… Read more »

Member
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
2 years ago

Actually, as the cognitive sciences progress it become more obvious that sub-Saharan negroes are far below whites with regard to the measured IQ. Current test would indicate below 70, the previous number.

Ex-Pralite Monk
Ex-Pralite Monk
Reply to  Greg Culver
2 years ago

The typical immigrant from India in the US is well-educated and probably comes from a wealthy family from the upper castes. It’s the only way they can get a visa to live here. You’re experiencing confirmation bias and erroneously think all Indians are like the ones you see in the US. They’re not.

I like a modest amount of legal immigration. My cardiologist from Greece is one of the top in his field and I’m glad he lives in the US. Too bad for Greece because they’re missing one great cardiologist.

A.B. Prosper
A.B. Prosper
Reply to  Ex-Pralite Monk
2 years ago

This brain drain is one of the reasons I favor very strict immigration limits. If the US scoops up all the words doctors, the conditions in the nations that send them here will worsen increasing migration pressures.

Reed Hill
Reed Hill
Reply to  A.B. Prosper
2 years ago

If pressed by someone on this, just ask them, “Well I assume you would think it’s immoral to strip mine the Third World for their physical resources, correct?”

“Of course.”

“Then why are you in favor of strip mining them of their very precious intellectual resources, which to the degree that it occurs only ensures that these nations will fall further behind at increasing rates?”

They usually just scowl and walk away.

Darren
Darren
Reply to  Greg Culver
2 years ago

“food stamps.”
Per capita. Learn what it means.

BestGuest
BestGuest
Reply to  Darren
2 years ago

Also “on average.”

roo_ster
Member
Reply to  Greg Culver
2 years ago

NAXALT

NAX-ity NAXALT

c matt
c matt
Reply to  Greg Culver
2 years ago

Then why is Africa such a mess? And why is everyone trying to emigrate to “white” countries, and not the other way around?

Tully Bascombe
Tully Bascombe
Reply to  Greg Culver
2 years ago

No, dipshit, Rick Wilson is not right. Rick Wilson has never been right about anything in his miserable life.

MtnExile
MtnExile
Reply to  Greg Culver
2 years ago

“I’ve worked with incredibly intelligent people of all ethnicities…”

Too bad it didn’t rub off. You exhibit all the characteristic strategies of the disingenuous liberal: there’s condescension (“Again:”), unproven absolutes (“race is irrelevant”), dishonest/irrelevant statistics (“way more white people on food stamps), nonsequiturs (“America has never been all white”), and snark (“men who self pleasure to anime”). Not a single honest (or intelligent) argument in your entire comment.

But then, I’m not telling you anything you didn’t already know.

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
Reply to  Greg Culver
2 years ago

Virtue signaling idiocy…A perfect example of what Z-man was writing about.

Hoagie
Hoagie
Reply to  Greg Culver
2 years ago

The playing field is being leveled by cutting down the best to the level of the least. There is no such thing as a level playing field and never has been. That very idea is the heart of communism and the only way to make anything level is to cut down the top. As a society or culture we can try and give a hand up to those less fortunate but we cannot level their playing field. Is every man as hansom as Sean Connery, as talented as Jimmy Stewart, as fast as Ali or as smart as Einstein? Then… Read more »

RegT
RegT
Reply to  Hoagie
2 years ago

Absolutely, Hoagie. Kurt Vonnegut’s story _Harrison Bergeron_ exemplified this ignorant “level the playing field” tripe, taking it to its obvious, socialist extreme.

the Super-Elite
the Super-Elite
Reply to  RegT
2 years ago

A favorite… and written long before PC was even close to reaching where it is today.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Greg Culver
2 years ago

White man steal everything.
Even steal Other’s smart people.

Bill Kristol
Bill Kristol
Reply to  Greg Culver
2 years ago

Rick Wilson was right

Your comment is the first time those words have ever been strung together in that order. Allow me to congratulate you on your groundbreaking work in advancing human stupidity.

A.B. Prosper
A.B. Prosper
Reply to  Greg Culver
2 years ago

I’ve worked with smart people of all ethnicities too. They were generally good people but there is a rub Preference for ones own kind is genetic and any society that becomes diverse will fail. There aren’t any diverse societies that function well , even Switzerland is essentially a small state made up of three societies that do little together Singapore the arch example is a one party authoritarian state with basically no birth rate (its 1.24) None of them work, its simply human nature Let me give another example, Belgium. Its two ethnicities basically the same race but the differences… Read more »

Mike
Mike
Reply to  Greg Culver
2 years ago

Intelligence is not the issue in this discussion. Your conclusion is pure garbage. The playing field will never be “level” because the players are not. Many ethnic people are extremely effective and successful not because of the ethnicity, but because they offer value to others as individual persons of quality. The “special treatment” as institutionalized by “affirmative action” for decades has been to the detriment of those you accuse of getting (yes accuse) special treatment. They have paid for the special treatment of others to “level the playing field” and have had the good deeds punished repeatedly and continually with… Read more »

Epaminondas
Member
Reply to  Greg Culver
2 years ago

There are more whites on welfare than blacks because whites outnumber blacks by a factor of six to one. On a per capita basis, blacks consume far more welfare than any other race…hands down.

Member
Reply to  Greg Culver
2 years ago

We’ve heard it all before, Greg. We don’t need to hear it again from a midwit such as you. Begone.

DWEEZIL THE WEASEL
DWEEZIL THE WEASEL
Reply to  Greg Culver
2 years ago

Mr. Culver: You want reality? Go over to the WRSA website. Go to the archives for August,2014. That is when all of the festivities in Ferguson, MO were happening. You will find in my comments, a description of “Bump Day”, which used to occur on public transportation in LA in the 30’s and 40’s. If you do not wish to do that, rent the original WAR OF THE WORLDS, starring Gene Barry from the 1950’s. Pay close attention to the actor who plays the Pastor in the beginning on the film. Your worlds remind me of him. You are probably… Read more »

bob
bob
Reply to  Greg Culver
2 years ago

Race has everything to do with it fool. Open your eyes and look around.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  bob
2 years ago

Bob, that’s the bumper sticker, right there.

UKer
UKer
Reply to  Greg Culver
2 years ago

Race is not irrelevant when you are of one racial group and another racial group wants you dead. Maybe even wants you dead without any willingness to discuss differences. There are lots of racial groups busy hating others and within those groups, many of the same racial groups are more than willing to take a machete to or a plant a bomb among their own kind. I seriously recommend you, Mr Culver, grow up and start looking at the world as it is and not as your fantasies wish. While you are busy enjoying your daydreams, there are people who… Read more »

Ned2
Ned2
Member
Reply to  Greg Culver
2 years ago

Greg Culver,
Go live for a year in Africa, the Middle East, China or South America, then come back and reevaluate your comment.

Matrix
Matrix
Reply to  Greg Culver
2 years ago

RIP Troll King

Wolf Barney
Wolf Barney
Reply to  Matrix
2 years ago

Troll King dethroned!

Member
Reply to  Greg Culver
2 years ago

Whites, that is Europeans, were on the North American continent at least 9,000 and as much as 12,000 years before the Asians arrived over the Alaskan bridge. The so-called “Indians” have no claim on the land here. The evidence for this is solid and increasing.
https://www.amazon.com/Across-Atlantic-Ice-Americas-Culture/dp/0520275780/

wjkathman
wjkathman
2 years ago

Stellar commentary as usual. Brains are not the main dividing line here. Courage is. Only those who have sufficient mettle to defy “acceptable” opinion will make it over to the biological realist side at this point. But give it time and that will likely change. Advanced findings in Genetics over the next ten to twenty years may cause all kinds of havoc for the egalitarian worldview. Patience.

David Wright
Member
2 years ago

There is a point that the only thing I can conclude of why these ‘normycons’ still hold to their comfort blankets is that they are just paycheck conservatives. A term many are using to explain part of why they do what they do.

They are always try to figure or read us out of the right. We have to get rid of them. Converting or red pilling works with a few.

David Wright
Member
2 years ago

Sorry Greg, America nor any other country works on a seniority system. You fight for your right to rule and what culture it will be.
Cheddar man in England wants his stuff too.

If this isn’t Tiny Duck’s regular troll it should be. Special treatment my ass.
Where in God’s name do you come from?

Babe Ruthless
Babe Ruthless
2 years ago

You do have to acknowledge the power of social pressure on guys not using pseudonyms. As Z and others have pointed out, modern leftism really is like a religion, and being an atheist makes you an outcast. It’s like Christianity centuries ago: even if you didn’t really believe, you had to pretend to publicly, or be an outcast. It is telling how many of Our Guys, the 100% over the river guys, use pseudonyms. There was an interesting Twitter kerfuffle recently when Charles Murray said people shouldn’t use pseudonyms. Maybe the great and pseudonymous Z will take up the subject.… Read more »

Cerulean
Cerulean
Reply to  thezman
2 years ago
Bill Kristol
Bill Kristol
Reply to  thezman
2 years ago

Speaking of pseudonyms, the PJ reader who emailed Hawkins is using a pretty based one. “William Luther” lol

Member
Reply to  thezman
2 years ago

The sad thing is that he may be speaking his mind.

Kentucky Headhunter
Reply to  Babe Ruthless
2 years ago

“You do have to acknowledge the power of social pressure on guys not using pseudonyms.”

Huh? I don’t see what that has to do with anything. Are you trying to excuse the guy’s silliness, his “CivNat absurdity” because he’s using his real name? That doesn’t wash at all. He’s being paid to write that crap. He’s a public employee of CivNat, Inc.

Cerulean
Cerulean
Reply to  Kentucky Headhunter
2 years ago

There is a lot to be said for earning a living and being able to support a family. As Z says, “They [the Left] want all sinners dragged before the court and forced to answer for their crimes.” Not so sure I agree with this comment from Z: [Murray is] at an age and position here can speak his mind.” Remember that at age 78, co-discoverer of DNA and Nobel laureate James Watson was suspended from the chancellorship of Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory for wrong-think comments he made about Africa. According to Wikipedia, he said in an interview he was… Read more »

Cerulean
Cerulean
Reply to  Cerulean
2 years ago

Actually, Watson didn’t discover DNA. That honor is accorded to Friedrich Miescher. Watson and colleagues figured out the structure of DNA — the double helix. For dissidents, the moral of the story is the same.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Cerulean
2 years ago

Bah. Watson stole it. Another scientist, who took pictures of crystalline structures, tried her tech on biological material and saw the helixes, but was not yet ready to publish until the next week.

He saw the pictures on her desk, and announced his ‘findings’ the very next day, saying “I had a dream”.

Cerulean
Cerulean
Reply to  Alzaebo
2 years ago

Perhaps. For dissidents, the moral of the story is still the same.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Cerulean
2 years ago

Agree. Just a pet peeve on my part.
By the Left’s rules, he won, and then was put up against the wall after their victory.

BestGuest
BestGuest
Reply to  Alzaebo
2 years ago

No. Her name was Rosalind Franklin. She was brilliant. She died very young from cancer. Dead people are not eligible for Nobel Prizes. Stop making things out to be what they are not.

Saml Adams
Saml Adams
Reply to  Babe Ruthless
2 years ago

I’ve used SA since a little incident years ago on the WSJ board where in a discussion on climate change, happenend to share a few statistics from my industry rebutting a greenie’s stance on massive increases in damages from weather events. The little faggot actually tracked down my home number and called my home to threaten me. Well, we ended up have fulsome discussion about terminal ballistics and boxing and he decided the better part of valor would be to go away. So since Sam was a relative (yes I’m one of those Winthrop people-though with a twist) and used… Read more »

Lance_E
Member
Reply to  Saml Adams
2 years ago

Saml Adams: If you’ve already had previous online identities unmasked and had to switch to new pseudonyms because of it, then it’s really not a good idea to post content potentially linking your current one to the old one. The internet never forgets. Don’t leave a trail.

Saml Adams
Saml Adams
Reply to  Lance_E
2 years ago

Forgot to note that I used my real name that was on the WSJ subscription. Have always assumed that someone motivated enough could dox me, but getting ever closer to that economic point where I give less and less of a shit. And think these LARP’ers like Antifa are going to begin learning, a two way firing range is not really that much fun.

petty grammar nazi
petty grammar nazi
Reply to  Saml Adams
2 years ago

couldn’t get

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Saml Adams
2 years ago

So if the insurance industry knows, the folks with real money involved, then everybody knows. They Know.

George Lesenby
George Lesenby
Reply to  Babe Ruthless
2 years ago

How many neocon “outcasts,” are there? There are youtube monetized videos you can find today which advocate the genocide of the Arab population of Gaza or the West Bank. Explain how these all powerful “leftists,” haven’t done anything about this? Give me a break.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Babe Ruthless
2 years ago

The Federalist Papers were written using pseudonyms.

Glen Filthie
Glen Filthie
Member
2 years ago

Fah! Z, I could have written that myself, 3 years ago. Complete with subconscious instinctive virtue signalling. When I got exiled from the hive I first came across guys like Vox and Cerno and for awhile they seemed reasonable – and compared to what I had come from, they were. But in time you see such men for what they are – poseurs, hucksters, and performance artists. They had no real intellectual merit. Then came the NRx crowd and most of their creed was simply laughable. Most of those guys knew nothing of history or the faith, but they read… Read more »

teapartydoc
Member
Reply to  Glen Filthie
2 years ago

Reality doesn’t catch up with you when you are paid to ignore it.

Alex
Alex
2 years ago

One of the things that defines basic intelligence in my mind is the ability to discern the fundamental difference between a population and a sample. There are lots of folks (even people like Greg Culver here) who say “Now I know a really smart INSERT ETHNICITY guy who…” and they miss the point completely. The population of people expressing a phenotype is way different than what a genetically similar population expresses. Variability in phenotype comes in individuals while the average is expressed in populations. I never understand when supposedly smart people fail to get this.

Epaminondas
Member
Reply to  Alex
2 years ago

They don’t want to get it. It challenges the narrative.

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Epaminondas
2 years ago

If you apply the populations versus samples thing correctly, you lose the “whaddabouts” which the Left uses to cherry pick for their noxious little arguments about every. last. meaningless. thing.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
2 years ago

“He disagrees with those facts” Logical bug, you cannot disagree WITH a fact, you can at most disagree that something IS a fact. Otherwise good work. About Europe racing ahead, as teh Chinese are keen to point out, there was a time, before 1500 give or take a few hundred years, when Europe was not ahead. Civilization, ie cities and larger polities and such, started in Egypt, Mesapotamia and the Indus Valley and maybe in the Andes as well. A millinium or two later, the China show got rolling, maybe roughly the same time as the corner of Europe proper… Read more »

BestGuest
BestGuest
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
2 years ago

Huh. Just last night I listened to a podcast about the “Needham Question.”
(Why, prior to the 15th C. China was far advanced of Europe–printing, gunpowder, etc.– and subsequently fell far behind.) In the modern era the Chinese seem to rely exclusively on industrial espionage. Anyway, links: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0038x9m
http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780199920082/obo-9780199920082-0006.xml Maybe A future subject for “Z”??

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  BestGuest
2 years ago

It’s because the new emperor in 1492 burned all the records, banned pig iron as a defacto currency because he feared a forming middle class, beheaded the eunuch admirals and burned the Zheng Ho exploration fleet (the guys who left a map to Cuba, the one Columbus used). The Chinese have been burning the records in a Year Zero sonce Huang Ti. He wasn’t the first Emperor; he won the war against the Red, and burned. (The closest thing to Genesis is the story of this founding war between the Yellow and the Red; their Lucifer was General Chio-sure, who… Read more »

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  BestGuest
2 years ago

I heard a claim that the Chinese historically had a very different approach to developing technology. They would develop one thing, then use it only for that. One example was gun powder. The Chinese developed it, used it for fireworks. But not much more. Guns were later developed by the Europeans. I think there were other examples. The conjecture was that the Chinese thought in a more ‘autistic’ way; they had a problem, they solved it and moved on. They did not try to improve it, develop more general principles or abstract theories about it. I think this fits with… Read more »

BestGuest
BestGuest
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
2 years ago

That was pretty much the gist of the podcast. (Still worth a listen as an intro to the subject.)

Gwithian
Gwithian
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
2 years ago

England had a higher per capita income than China in the 15th century.
The Chinese argument doesn’t stack up so well if you compare it to England or northern Italy, rather than the whole of Europe.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Gwithian
2 years ago

Point taken, didnt know that. But isnt the more fair comparison then most advanced Chinese provinces or states or whatever they had then, to England or Northern Italy?

Or maybe I was one or two centuries late in my choice of period of comparison?

dad29
2 years ago

the reason Europe began to race ahead of the world five centuries ago is the human capital of Europe was simply better than what populated the rest of the world.

Had nothing, NOTHING, to do with Catholicism (or Christianity), eh?

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  dad29
2 years ago

Maybe with Christianity getting out of the science labs? That could potentially explain some I think

dad29
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
2 years ago

Maybe you should read actual history, not the BS you got in “school.”

Come back when you’re ready to ‘splain who was the single most influential pioneer of biology, or astronomy, or physics, or medicine.

Hint: they are all Catholics.

Ignorant twit.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  dad29
2 years ago

Who fucked your wife last night??

” single most influential pioneer of biology, or astronomy, or physics, or medicine.

Hint: they are all Catholics.”

Really? That would be an interesting surprise to Newton, Darwin, Alexander Fleming or Thyco Brahe and later Einstein, Bohr and many others.

There is no ‘single most influential’ pioneer. I figure you had Galilei and probably some others in mind. Guess what, you off the bat offensive [never mind], Galilei needed the church out of his way.

Lance_E
Member
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
2 years ago

The conventional Galileo story has been called into serious doubt, and not even that recently. While it’s true that he was persecuted by the church, it was quite likely NOT due to his scientific pursuits, but rather a highly abrasive personality and belligerent posture toward the church and its teachings.

The history of the Catholic church is often misrepresented this way, which is no surprise once you realize that our current rulers and history-writers are Protestant offshoots.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Lance_E
2 years ago

That’s possible. Im simply saying science and religion are two very different endeavors. That does not mean they have to be in each others way, but historically they often have been.

Lance_E
Member
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
2 years ago

It’s mostly a lie; Christianity was very rarely “in science’s way”. The Royal Society was founded by Robert Boyle, a noted and devout Anglican. Certainly, the Catholic church did not stunt science in the middle ages anywhere near as much as Progressivism stunts science today. Geocentrism is the lynchpin of that particular silly anti-Christian argument, and there’s a lot of evidence that it would have gone away on its own – but even if it hadn’t, astronomy and cosmology haven’t really produced that much of genuine value yet compared to, say, chemistry and genetics. Science and engineering require social cooperation… Read more »

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Lance_E
2 years ago

Agree, it built the institutions, the medieval universities and precious Irish (non-Catholic) cloisters that preserved the libraries being burned by Arabs. But what about Islamic university? The Arab Conquest wasn’t Arab- it was Persian. An alternative Persian form of Christianity, like Greek Byzantium. Their Arab vassal mercenaries stole the victory, then began rewriting the history. Choestes’ armies successfully reached Egypt. He was Persian, but a convert to Ebionite faith of “Judaic Jesus” (non Trinitarian, like the Nestorian Syrian bishops)- the Prophet, the Mohammed, was Jesus. They didn’t see him as a Son of the Holy Ghost, an avatar, the deity… Read more »

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Alzaebo
2 years ago

Like Romans and Goths, had Persia not hired foreign mercenaries, we might’ve had 3 great houses of Christianity, and all the eventual good that implies.

Jaqship
Jaqship
Reply to  Lance_E
2 years ago

Lance, the Church may have had oodles of motives for doing him that way.
The fact remains, that Galilei needed the church OUT of his way.
Had the Church c. 1850 wielded the power it wielded c. 1615, Darwin may well have decided that it was prudent for him to lay low, to stay a “lost boy”.

Simba was replying to dad29’s pitch, about the Church deserving so much credit for Europe’s progress.

RegT
RegT
Reply to  Lance_E
2 years ago

And the current pope of the Catholic Church is an ignorant Argentinian communist who enjoys kissing the feet of muslims while Christians throughout the Middle East are being massacred. He neither defends Christians nor his own Church. Hopefully, he will end up in that place he claims doesn’t exist.

dad29
Reply to  Lance_E
2 years ago

Catholic Europe developed water- and wind-mills, the three-field agriculture system, selective plant-breeding, chimneys, eyeglasses, and saddles for horses, enabling heavy cavalry. The Church rejected chattel slavery. Catholics invented musical notation, used polyphony first, invented universities, used dissection as a scientific tool. Copernicus was educated at a Catholic university, as was Grosseteste, Bacon, Ockham, d’Oresme, Newton, Malpighi, …..

Whitehead recognized that Christian theology was essential to the rise of science……

Kepler, Mendel, Boyle….

And of course, Christian Europe took gunpowder and used it for cannons and guns. So be nice, you pagan twits.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  dad29
2 years ago

That IS an impressive list, considering that we whites used to hang mutilated corpses of girls by their hair, in the trees, as sacrifices to the Old Ones.

Before Christianity came along, that is.
Now, ’bout them Blood Eagles…

Jaqship
Jaqship
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
2 years ago

And, an interesting surprise to Pythagoras, Archimedes, Euclid etc.

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
2 years ago

Newton, perhaps the greatest mind of the last 500 years, was a devout Christian, but not a Catholic.

Das
Das
Reply to  pyrrhus
2 years ago

He was also heavily into the occult.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Das
2 years ago

The occult is an alternative form of science, as are the Eastern arts, as were the masoretic masons, etc etc.

Learn to translate, smart people.
Clues are everywhere, people really are trying their best.

PS- pedants have ruined, fucking ruined this thread. Every public meeting gets some asshole who jumps up and starts shouting who-knows-what.

Ex-Pralite Monk
Ex-Pralite Monk
Reply to  dad29
2 years ago

Come back when you’re ready to ‘splain who was the single most influential pioneer of biology, or astronomy, or physics, or medicine.

You mean the ancient Greeks? BTW insulting people won’t win them over to your thinking.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  dad29
2 years ago

And, Christian scholars resurrected history.
In Egypt, in Cambodia, in Belize, in India- they had even forgotten Ashoka in India, the mighty king who spread Buddhism across half the world. German Catholics found him again.

Blaming white guys has great precedent.
The great Papist ‘crimes’ were greatly exagerrated or brought in by someone else.

Witch burning: Pagans, millenia earlier
Inquisition: Muslims, 300 years earlier
Crusades: Muslims, 400 years earlier

roo_ster
Member
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
2 years ago

The paradigmatic shift brought about by Christianity in general and the church of Rome in particular made what we think of as science possible.

Stop drinking the anti-Christian kool-aid.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  roo_ster
2 years ago

The kind of anti-factual, dogmatic thinking that is problematic in science. Christianity helped science primarily by getting out the science labs. Science is about different realms than religion. You can be Christian and a scientist. But they compliment, not buttress, each other at best.

roo_ster
Member
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
2 years ago

What you know ain’t so. Much of the current Narrative suffers from a lack of contact with historical, verifiable fact. If you are of the sort to un-learn received propaganda, you have several options, of which I will list only two. The most readable is likely Hannam’s “The Genesis of Science: How the Christian Middle Ages Launched the Scientific Revolution.” Well written and entertaining, but a bit Roman-triumphalist, it is the easiest way to red pill yourself on the topic. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004S6UW1E/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Grant’s “The Foundations of Modern Science in the Middle Ages: Their Religious, Institutional and Intellectual Contexts” plows similar ground,… Read more »

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  roo_ster
2 years ago

Maybe, it is actually possible that the church has been accused of being more detrimental to science than was the actual case. We know that Christianity has been attacked by ppl who it later turned out had ulterior (cultural Marxist, postmodernist etc) motives. And I am not an expert on either Christianity or the history of science. I practice science, I have strong views on what ‘constitutes science’. But I dont know the exact role of the church in the development of science from the Italian renaissance forward. I concede ‘reasonable doubt’ on the church’s ‘guilt’ in retarding science thus.

Ex-Pralite Monk
Ex-Pralite Monk
Reply to  roo_ster
2 years ago

The Antikythera mechanism is a clockwork analog computer. They think it was made around 100 BC, possibly by Archimedes. Amazing device considering western culture didn’t invent clockwork mechanisms until 1300 AD. It was made long before Christ was born, much less the Christian church.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Ex-Pralite Monk
2 years ago

This little thread is so reminiscent of the “Life of Brian” movie…

Pimpkin's Nephew
Pimpkin's Nephew
Reply to  Dutch
2 years ago

So reassuring to enjoy the unity of those of us “on this side of the great divide”.

Yeah, we’ll be just fine. Unlike the Enemy, we aren’t motivated by petty hatreds.

Lance_E
Member
Reply to  Ex-Pralite Monk
2 years ago

I wonder what sort of point you think you’re proving here. Plenty of would-be inventors come up with fantasy inventions involving technology that doesn’t exist. If mankind comes up with an anti-gravity mechanism in the year 2300, does every crank today designing levitating sweatpants get credit for being a genius before his time? The people who push us into the future (technology-wise) are the people who make scientific and technical breakthroughs that can actually be IMPLEMENTED by their peers. These “pre-invention inventions” are almost never used in the design of the genuine article, even as inspiration, because everybody’s already forgotten… Read more »

Ex-Pralite Monk
Ex-Pralite Monk
Reply to  Lance_E
2 years ago

The point I’m trying to make is that science existed before the Roman Catholic Church. If you find that statement threatening perhaps you should return to Free Republic, where they ban every conservative who doesn’t conform to Church doctrine.

Lance_E
Member
Reply to  Ex-Pralite Monk
2 years ago

The point you’re trying to make is wrong, and you’re making it poorly. You’re using “science” as a stand-in for “technological progress”, and they are not the same thing. The Scientific Method is a modern invention, not really taking root until Descartes and Newton. Before that, all “science” was inductive, which led to thousands of years of idiotic ideas like phlogiston and trepanation.

You obviously don’t know anything about science other than the usual progressive-propaganda talking points, and should really stop posting about it as if you do.

Ex-Pralite Monk
Ex-Pralite Monk
Reply to  Lance_E
2 years ago

Eratosthenes of Cyrene, born around 276 BC, accurately measured the circumference of the world. Sounds like science to me.

Tully Bascombe
Tully Bascombe
Reply to  Ex-Pralite Monk
2 years ago

then you don’t know what Science is.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Ex-Pralite Monk
2 years ago

“Eratosthenes of Cyrene, born around 276 BC, accurately measured the circumference of the world. Sounds like science to me.”

To make it complete science he should have tested it to verify his theory. But he couldnt. He was somewhat in a situation comparable to the current one with string theory. But, it was pretty good work and maybe science, one could split hairs over that, or not 🙂

Member
Reply to  thezman
2 years ago

Well he was writing to Scottish Presbyterians so I’d bet that no, bowels or no bowels, they did not think such a thing possible….

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Lance_E
2 years ago

Lance_E, I largely agree w your comments on the history of science. I think it began largely around the time of Galilei etc, certainly w the scientific method.

One of my old tracking books about animal tracks in Africa called tracking ‘the oldest science’. A little tongue-in-cheek I think there is some merit in that.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Lance_E
2 years ago

It seems all the fanatical literal bible thumpers are on this thread.

Lance_E
Member
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
2 years ago

I’m not even a Christian, I’m just someone who studies history. You, apparently, are not.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Lance_E
2 years ago

“I’m not even a Christian, I’m just someone who studies history. You, apparently, are not.”

Well I know more about science than I do about history, no question there.

Tully Bascombe
Tully Bascombe
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
2 years ago

you’re ignorant of how science and the scientific method arose in Europe. instead of name calling why not take this opportunity to learn what you’re talking about?

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
2 years ago

WTF, dudes? Current Christianity sprang forth from Zeus’s forehead, fully formed?

Please don’t turn turn this place into PJM.

(For goodness’ sakes, this was the original argument against Darwin.
Not how things began, but whether they had changed over time.)

Pimpkin's Nephew
Pimpkin's Nephew
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
2 years ago

Fanatical literal bible thumpers?

Maybe I missed something in skimming through this tiresome thread, but I haven’t noticed anyone supporting their claims with chapter and verse quotations from the Holy Texts, which is what ”fanatical literal bible thumpers” do.

And which Catholics never do. But whatever; let the half-literate mud-wrestling continue until somebody gets tired or gets called home to dinner.

Jaqship
Jaqship
Reply to  Pimpkin's Nephew
2 years ago

”fanatical literal bible thumpers” was an ill-advised phrase.
But, recall, dad29 started this dustup with a dig at an “Ignorant twit”.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Pimpkin's Nephew
2 years ago

I didn’t miss the underlying motivation- a strident demand that “it All Starts and Ends With Christianity!”

Credit where credit is due, and leave it there, please.

calsdad
calsdad
Reply to  Lance_E
2 years ago

It’s hilarious that people are downvoting Lance_E’s comment. They obviously know nothing about how technological progress actually occurs. I’ve met more than my fair share of people who walk around spouting all sorts of “great ideas” – but couldn’t implement the design of a paperclip into an actual physical object. Here’s a clue – if the best you can do is write down the crazy ideas in your head on a piece of paper – but you’re not able to turn that “invention” into something REAL here in the physical world – you didn’t do shit. The world doesn’t advance… Read more »

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  calsdad
2 years ago

“Here’s a clue – if the best you can do is write down the crazy ideas in your head on a piece of paper – but you’re not able to turn that “invention” into something REAL here in the physical world – you didn’t do shit.”

COMPLETELY incorrect! What you describe, if I only add that the idea is true or almost true, is called theoretical science. Einstein’s work was 99% of this nature. It led other people to understand the energy potential of nuclear fission, and the rest is history.

Tully Bascombe
Tully Bascombe
Reply to  Ex-Pralite Monk
2 years ago

clever device, but it’s not science.

Jaqship
Jaqship
Reply to  Tully Bascombe
2 years ago

Tully, if your rebuttal here refers to Ex-Pralite’s comment (about measuring circumference), that advance may, strictly speaking, not be “science”, but so what? This thread started, with a claim about “the reason Europe began to race ahead of the world five centuries ago”. So, the issue here is, did advances, like measuring earth’s circumference, help Europe eventually race ahead? And, how much did such advances owe to Christianity, vs. how much to other factors (e.g. the Ancients, e.g. in Greece)? Debate on such matters is nowadays far better on the Right than on the Left. Let’s not let hyper-partisanship, for… Read more »

Tully Bascombe
Tully Bascombe
Reply to  Jaqship
2 years ago

Hi Jaq, yes my reply was to Ex’s comment. The fact of the matter here is that science or more accurately the scientific method arose directly from Christian theology. Not so much “The Church” as an institution but the theology behind it. Which is that God created Man with the capacity to reason, and that the world works according to laws that are both knowable and universal. A more in depth explanation can be found here
http://www.icr.org/article/christianity-cause-modern-science/
Ex’s problem, along with some other commenters here is that he/they are confusing technological advances with science. They are not the same thing.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Tully Bascombe
2 years ago

Chicken or egg.
Did Christianity come from an uprooted and changing theology-
Or did the theology and science come from broad, inheritable tendencies?

I say the people and their way of looking at the world came first.

Christian culture can influence, but won’t change the deep nature of African or Mestizo culture.

Jaqship
Jaqship
Reply to  Alzaebo
2 years ago

Yeah, Alzaebo, I don’t see these other cultures producing guys like Aristotle or Euclid, whose “way of looking at the world” could then inspire the Medievals, and then the Moderns.
So, the lineage was Greeks, then (Christian and Islamic) Medievals, then Modern science.

Jaqship
Jaqship
Reply to  Tully Bascombe
2 years ago

Tully, Islamic theology may well have accomplished a similar feat, had the Mongols been stopped from spanking so much of the Moslem world, as fate spared W. Europe from a similar spanking. I’ll wager that Averroes’ position on theology and reason fit well with that of the Christian Medievals, and that he had much influence on Islamic theology, seeing as he was the Caliph’s fair-haired boy. Wikipedia describes his position as follows: “When conclusions reached by philosophy appear to contradict the text of the revelation, then according to Averroes, revelation MUST be subjected to interpretation or allegorical understanding, to remove… Read more »

Jaqship
Jaqship
Reply to  Jaqship
2 years ago

And, both Christian and Moslem Medievals owed much of their view, that “the world works according to laws that are both knowable and universal”, to Aristotle, incl. to his idea of the Unmoved *Mover*.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Jaqship
2 years ago

Aristotle’s writings were known and held in Europe, while Plato’s were known and held in Islam.
Averroes and Avicenna argued across a philosophical divide, as the two cultures refused to share at the time(s).

dad29
Reply to  Alzaebo
2 years ago

Well, Augustine was heavily influenced by Plato, too, and his writings/philosophy/theology influenced the Church over the years.

Tully Bascombe
Tully Bascombe
Reply to  Jaqship
2 years ago

I seriously doubt that. Islamic theology states that evertthjng is subject to the will of Allah. He could decide tomorrow that pi = 2.14 instead of 3.14. It also stipulates that to study the natural world and it’s laws is to place limit the wlll of Allah. Since these natural laws are subject to Allah’s will, which could change at his whim, why bother studying it at all. There is a reason why science arose in Christian Europe and nowhere else.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Tully Bascombe
2 years ago

“The fact of the matter here is that science or more accurately the scientific method arose directly from Christian theology.” I simply dont believe that for a second. Christian theology may have been rationalized or interpreted to ‘justify’ the scientific method ex post facto but they have virtually nothing in common. The scientific method, experiment and theory each advancing or confirming the other, was developed gradually by trial and error. I can accept as a plausible conjecture that the church’s, and accordingly Christianity’s practical, role in impeding science may have been exaggerated by people who didnt like Christianity such as… Read more »

Tully Bascombe
Tully Bascombe
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
2 years ago

Don’t really care what you believe Moran, it’s the truth. Whether you choose to accept it or continue to swallow the tiresome lefty propaganda about Christianity is on you.

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
Reply to  dad29
2 years ago

That’s one of the main reasons, of course, as the Church banned cousin marriage to the 4th degree, which increased general intelligence levels. It also encouraged hard work and science…

Guest
Guest
Reply to  dad29
2 years ago

With all due respect, that reasoning is faulty. Christianity could have arisen anywhere. In fact it was born in the Levant, but it did not take hold there in the way it did in Europe. Why did Catholicism (or Christianity) take hold in Europe and not elsewhere? There was no monopoly on the ideas behind Christianity.

Biology->Culture->Politics->Economics

Dtbb
Dtbb
Reply to  Guest
2 years ago

To all y’all. How bout address comments by handles to lessen confusion? Just a thought.

dad29
Reply to  Guest
2 years ago

Christianity was prevalent in Northern Africa, Syria, Turkey, Lebanon, and Europe. NOT in Israel. However, the Moslems came close to wiping out Christianity in all those places and half of Spain, and they left a mess in SE Europe when they retreated in the 1600’s, having failed to conquer Vienna.

TomA
TomA
2 years ago

Evolution has endowed us with a tenacity of thought born of brain wiring that occurs during our early formative years. This is why most people are resistant to change in their core beliefs in later life. One of the few things that can alter this bias is confrontation with reality involving existential threat, e.g. getting the shit scared out of you. Unfortunately, our current environment offers little opportunity for this to occur.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  TomA
2 years ago

I notice that older Buddhists ‘find’ Buddhism, Jews ‘find’ Judaism, Christians ‘find’ Christ, etc.
Those early grooves are well worn.

Right now, old Dad is out in the back yard, trying to find the barn animals. It’s feeding time in 1934.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Alzaebo
2 years ago

Now, that was a light-hearted example, albight sadly true. People rediscover their roots and go back to the faith.

Richard Dawkin’s dad must’ve been the High Church of the Snarling Labourite.

dad29
Reply to  Alzaebo
2 years ago

I found you out there, Alzaebo–and by the way, I’m not “returning” to anything; I would have had to leave, first. Now eat your alfalfa!

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  dad29
2 years ago

“So be nice, you pagan twits.”
So. Good.

And this hay, it’s just the best.
Really! Care to try some?

Das
Das
2 years ago

1. “The most successful nations have been those that have adopted the tenets of Western civilization. Even the most prosperous Asian nations like Japan and South Korea were heavily influenced by Western culture. Additionally, there are also poor white nations like Armenia, Moldovia, and Ukraine. If Western culture had developed in Africa while Europeans still embraced the sort of backward tyrannies you see in Africa and South America, chances are America would be one of the sh*thole countries and they’d be the prosperous ones today.” It’s not the poverty, it’s the poz! There can be some human dignity even in… Read more »

Severian
2 years ago

The old cliche goes “nothing succeeds like success,” and it’s true. The Left wins in the present, I’m coming to believe, almost entirely because they’ve won in the past. I certainly don’t respect the “respectable Right,” but I understand them, as I’ve been in a similar situation — when I was professing, even a hint of heresy would’ve cost me everything. I would’ve lost my job — I’d never work in education again, at any level — and former “friends” would’ve cut me in the streets. I’m only exaggerating a little when I say we probably would’ve had to move.… Read more »

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Severian
2 years ago

The Left is also engaged. They know what they are fighting for, which is space at the huge public trough, where you are fed according to your wants, not your contributions. To take it further, the hissy fits we call virtue signaling serve to enlarge the size and frequency of the feedings for the one throwing the fit. Never mind the fact that, one day, the farmer is going to get tired of the freeloading and the hissy fits, and not refill the trough with swill (the “Venezuela outcome”). I don’t think it is any more complex than that.

Drake
Drake
2 years ago

It’s all great to claim you have an open mind and are willing to digest big new ideas. It’s a whole lot harder to actually walk back on stuff you have earnestly believed for decades. It must feel like betraying past self.

Most people can only do it gradually if at all. Denial is far more comfortable.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Drake
2 years ago

As someone who used to be blue pill ‘conservative’, Im more wondering how far my views will go lol I think the ones who used to buy into all the civnat stuff might end up the more extreme. B/c we have sort of a ‘woman scorned’ sense of having been betrayed by the ppl and ideas we used to believe in. Those that saw through it all along might be more ‘well, they re cons but what do you expect from cons’??

I bet Genghis Khan was a really idealistic blue pill guy in his early youth lol

Drake
Drake
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
2 years ago

I think of Mosses as a guy who started true blue living in comfortable slavery. Even after God started talking to him, he hadn’t really swallowed the red pill.

Only after dragging all the other fat, lazy, comfortable slaves out into the wilderness and listening to them bitch and moan for years was he really red-pilled. That’s when he and God decided to keep them in the desert for a couple of generations – until all the blue-pillers had dies off.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Drake
2 years ago

The blue pill to red pill club got two very unexpected members this week, Moses and Genghis Khan lol

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Drake
2 years ago

I think of Set-Moses (“Child-of-Set”) as a Hyksos Egyptian priest whose faction lost their bureaucratic war with the Isis faction. So badly, they had grab their clans and flee, like Abraham, to the wastes, to their Mittani relatives. So badly, the very name of Set was banned by Egypt; the refugees had to use the unspeakable sign, YHWH, of the volcano god as a sigil. That volcano was a column of smoke by day, a pillar of fire by night. Of course Moses’ descendants rewrote the story. Too many wanted to go back to the civilized world, the old traditions.… Read more »

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Alzaebo
2 years ago

I think Z should interview you on the various threads of human religion, legend and superstition. I would love to see all the bits and pieces of what you know, put together into a big picture.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Dutch
2 years ago

May the God and all the gods bless you for that. I’m an ignorant fool, but hoping to someday attract quality help from minds far better than me. Minds like the Zman and his worthies. I’m a shambling bum who stumbled across Pandora’s box. Practical, physical application is what I seek, but I’m too far behind to offer anything of real value right now. Plus, I don’t want to interfere with what the Zman is trying to do here. I hope to eventually contribute. I’m at a critical juncture, after years of difficult perserverance- I can’t express how much your… Read more »

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Alzaebo
2 years ago

Oops, PS: my apologies to Drake, I agree with his moral lesson, and Simba’s blue-pilled Ghengis too! I just go off on these tangents.

Scholar
Scholar
2 years ago

“There’s a lot to unpack there” — oh shut up. This guy is an absolute tard. I don’t know what’s worse though, him or Andrew (((STERN))) in the comments over there.

Keep fighting the good fight Zman.

Das
Das
Reply to  Scholar
2 years ago

Never trust anyone who says “unpack”, “drill down”, “at the end of the day” or “badass woman”.

Lance_E
Member
2 years ago

“The most successful nations have been those that have adopted the tenets of Western civilization” is a very interesting and opaque statement. He’s hedging his bets. Depending on what he really means by “tenets”, he could either be exactly right or catastrophically wrong.

If “tenets” means “Christianity and hierarchical government”, then it’s true; even non-white nations that adopt them do better than non-white nations that don’t. But what he probably, actually means, like any good progressive moralist, is “liberal democracy” – and as we all know, any nation that adopts liberal democracy is poised for suicide, not success.

Drake
Drake
Reply to  Lance_E
2 years ago

Free-enterprise, property rights, and rule-of-law are real helpful too. It worked for Hong Kong.

Lance_E
Member
Reply to  Drake
2 years ago

“Rule of law” does not exist. “Free-enterprise” and “property rights” are the same thing. Where did property rights come from? Do you think they just materialized out of thin air? What prevents me from defecting and simply taking your property?

Member
Reply to  Lance_E
2 years ago

Two men in his employ, Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson.

Pimpkin's Nephew
Pimpkin's Nephew
Reply to  Lance_E
2 years ago

Rule of Law exists, and is well-defined. I live on a piece of land that, 250 years ago, was hunted and fished by the Iroquois. My right to this property derives from those contractual arrangements developed by law, and ensured by the rule of law, preceding my purchase of this property. Before that – raw conquest. No one who spends ten minutes thinking through the legal basis of any society can avoid that brute fact about the nature of human organization. The ‘rule of law’ isn’t the ‘rule of nature’ – it’s the domestication of conquest into peaceful and legal… Read more »

dad29
Reply to  Lance_E
2 years ago

Property rights came from the 7th commandment.

dad29
Reply to  dad29
2 years ago

I’ll modify that a bit. The 7th commandment formalized Natural Law which is the source of property rights.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Drake
2 years ago

Hong Kong is small and homogenous.
Singapore too- 75% Chinese, 15% Malay, 7% Indian: all Asian.

Dutch
Dutch
2 years ago

I don’t really have a herd to join, and am quite used to being alone in my thinking. In fact, this is one of the few places where I can test my thoughts out and get a useful, meaningful response to it, good or bad. Except for here, there isn’t much real discussion any more, it is simply selling a position and shaming those who disagree. I assume protective coloration most of the time, and try to keep it from becoming too immersed in my thinking. I am a big believer in the fates, and the old noir stories and… Read more »

A b c d
A b c d
Reply to  Dutch
2 years ago

Under rated point buried in there: the only real discussion going on anywhere in America is between factions of the right

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Dutch
2 years ago

Absolutely. We’re the Witnesses, as Severian demonstrates above.

A secret belief defines and sustains groups such as Jewish Marranos, or Druze, or Zoroastrian Persians.

Someday will we be that crazy remnant that believes it’s ancestors walked on the Moon?

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Alzaebo
2 years ago

I was on a nighttime walk just yesterday, looking up at the half moon on a clear evening, getting chills at the idea that people walked on that thing and made it back. At the rate things are going, it will be a hundred years, if ever, that we go back.

I remember the night, getting up to see the moonwalk. Awesome memories.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Dutch
2 years ago

We saw it. Actually saw it happen.
The First Step.

We are the most blessed of what will someday be prehistoric, lost in the mists of time. Someday, when forests on the moon cast their green light on the Earth.

Who discovered fire? Who invented the wheel?
What were their names?

Pimpkin's Nephew
Pimpkin's Nephew
Reply to  Dutch
2 years ago

Re “The greatest, most horrific folly of human history”. I try to be optimistic. Disaster beckons; I get that. My hope is that a vigorous remnant survives, with enough of the ecosystem intact, so that – say in a few hundred years – some new and better-grounded variety of peoples emerge and learn from our mistakes, using their wits to make do on a mined-out yet still verdant planet. Native genius will again have elbow room, and the race will heal. It would be a shame if this remnant exhibited ‘browning’, with its corresponding loss of those crucial IQ points… Read more »

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Pimpkin's Nephew
2 years ago

Pimpkin’s Nephew, I can’t say I am morose about the future, more resigned to it. Interested to see how it plays out. Looking forward to bearing witness to what happens. Fate and destiny are peculiar things. You get to wiggle around in your own space, making decisions and doing things that lessen the likelihood of certain personal outcomes, and increasing the probability of others. But you are still subject to fate, which is bigger than anything you can do or make happen on your own. I live on two hilltops, one close in to civilization, and thereby making available to… Read more »

theRussians
Member
Reply to  Dutch
2 years ago

Dutch, you took me on a little trip there, thanks

Curtis Gee
Curtis Gee
2 years ago

More whites behaving badly

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45270664

Das
Das
Reply to  Curtis Gee
2 years ago

Anyone can behave badly. I guess you expect whites to know better?
https://youtu.be/-JEpVBlWzxA

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Curtis Gee
2 years ago

The horror!

Gwithian
Gwithian
Reply to  Curtis Gee
2 years ago

Not sure if joking…..
I mean,I hope you are.
Because compared to what I could post about other groups misbehaving that is laughable.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Gwithian
2 years ago

Two white guys in their boxers, laughing and splashing in a fountain?

Yep, the End has come. The barbarians are in the gates. No way we’re gonna survive this.

Ursula
Ursula
Reply to  Curtis Gee
2 years ago

Oh my, terrible those young Englishmen playing in the water fountain. Perhaps the African migrants could teach them some manners. Suggested Art of Migrating syllabus: * Milking the host country’s social services for maximum money and benefits. * Not assimilating — keep your own culture and language by living in enclaves and displaying hostility toward the natives who pay for you. * Not working — do not gain any skills or contribute to the host society. * Knives, guns, bats, bombs or cars — choosing the right weapon for the right occasion. * Marry a white mudshark from the host… Read more »

George Orwell
George Orwell
2 years ago

Just to add some spice to the stew, PJ Media is run by a Jewish screenwriter who adores his son’s homosexual marriage. To be fair, he was strongly opposed to Never Trump.

BestGuest
BestGuest
Reply to  George Orwell
2 years ago

I believe the original founders of PJM were Aubrey Chernick, Roger L. Simon and Charles (LGF) Johnson.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  BestGuest
2 years ago

Simon, Radosh, Ledeen, (and Horowitz) ’bout lost their minds when Diana West exposed FDR as Stalin’s stooge, and poor Charles simply lost his mind.

LittleGreenFootballs used to be exquisite, exposing Palestinian fraudery.
I think the serious squeeze was put on him after he exposed Dan Rather- the commie media really, really didn’t want their tricks to come to light. Media exposure is what he did best, and all his sqwauking about Mellon-Scafe Christian militias and Savior Obama couldn’t save him.

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Alzaebo
2 years ago

Something must have happened to Johnson, the way it all went down. Den Beste, too, but it is not far-fetched to assume that he may have had said his piece and it was time to move on. Perhaps the health thing just took him out before the rest of us were on to it.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Dutch
2 years ago

Steve Den Beste said it was simply too exhausting to keep replying to the comments, as he felt compelled to do.
Set sail on the U.S.S. Clueless!

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
2 years ago

Zman kicking libertarians has always irked me, but now I get it, I *feel* it.

He’s kicking the Blank Slate.
Libertarianism is the natural stance of White culture before the meddlers started rewriting our moral code.

The terms “con”, “lib”, “tarian” all meant something very different before the Diversity’s blank slate rolled in.

TheInsolentOne
TheInsolentOne
Reply to  Alzaebo
2 years ago

You’re not talking about us Rothbardians. Are you? 🙂 We are the based libertarians as opposed to Vichy cosmotarians.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  TheInsolentOne
2 years ago

Rothbardians saw through the MIC scam before anyone, but a libertatian in a non-white country must refine his doctrine behind high walls topped with broken glass.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
2 years ago

Like minorities, the virtue signallers define themselves relative to white majority.

Can’t any of these people do something on their own, and just leave me be?

(“Who will rid me of these meddlesome preists?”- Saml Adams and some other old white guy)

BestGuest
BestGuest
Reply to  Alzaebo
2 years ago

Henry II of England. 😉

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
2 years ago

I came here from PJM.
Dreadful. I can’t bear to read it anymore.

(I read the comments this time though- and even civnats like James Woods are Noticing.)

UpYours
UpYours
2 years ago

Intelligent guys like Richard Dawkins do not join your side, Mr. Z cause your side offers nothing other than sick RAHOWA fantasies, your side exists purely as a foil to BLM and La Raza type minority racists. Really other than RACE! RACE! RACE! what ideas does the Dissident Right bring? What is the Dissident Right position on the trade deficit? sky high college and medical costs? Rampant corporate consolidation leading to enormous concentration of power and influence in the hands of a few globalist fucks? IP Trolling? The Drug War? GWOT? Medicare? Social Media Censorship? The Normies want to hear… Read more »

David Wright
Member
Reply to  UpYours
2 years ago

Maybe if the normies would just acknowledge race the dissidents could dial it back a bit, but I doubt it.
In case you have been asleep for awhile everything else by the left has been pretty much white hatred.

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  UpYours
2 years ago

You raise some important political issues. Unfortunately, most non-whites will never grapple with the issues you enumerate. For the most part, they just want to take from the Other.

One reason for whites to be tribal is so that we can start discussing legitimate issues again. If you every want a worthwhile debate about taxation or health care, you must establish a majority white country.

Rod1963
Rod1963
Reply to  UpYours
2 years ago

Dawkins is a ass. He goes out of his way to piss people off. Besides he hates Christians to the point he openly insults them. Why that bugger doesn’t toddle off to Algeria or Pakistan is beyond me. Despite being trollish you bring up valid points. For the most part the alt-right is a one trick pony. I’ve never seen their serious thinkers like Sailer ever espouse anything remotely to a platform that is attractive to normies. I don’t think they know how to talk to normies. Take the opioid epidemic. They don’t care if a million people die. They… Read more »

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Rod1963
2 years ago

“Dumpster fire”- great line! Harsh but true.

I think the marketing message begins with what Chaotic N. said below:
“they finally come to the realization that what they liked about Paul was always implicit white interests.”

I’m hearing more and more voices broach the forbidden words on radio.
Radio has a far larger unified audience than most cable shows.

“Its OK to be white” will probably resemble the “Rush is Right” bumper stickers, back when Rush was an unknown name in a dying niche.

Jaqship
Jaqship
Reply to  UpYours
2 years ago

Yours, Ron Paul, Antal Fekete, FoFoA, etc. have much to say on those other issues. Let Zman etc. concentrate on their niche, and be open to
stuff from those I just listed.
Heretofore, this culture/ ethnicity stuff had been so neglected.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  UpYours
2 years ago

“White people, we need an honest discussion about race… and when you open your fat, stupid mouths, we’ll talk about capital gains and school funding.”

Member
Reply to  UpYours
2 years ago

There’s no agreement on these “issues” on the dissident right, nor should there be. They are a distraction. They are blue pill. There’s no point in engaging in penny-ante “issues” in a government that is actively engaged in your replacement or destruction. The overriding “issue” is the national question. This is certainly a reason to dislike democracy, but democracy is what we have. Let me put it this way. South Africa has already largely removed the protection of the law from its Afrikaners, and they are suffering hugely because of that. Now it is about to embark on a more… Read more »

Rod1963
Rod1963
2 years ago

These are bubble people. They are socially and economically isolated from the c**p they promote. They’re like “Meathead” (Rob Reiner) here in CA, He promotes all sorts of insane legislation and attacks conservatives for being racist, etc. Yet lives in a gated community in Malibu in a house with a large wall and gate. Meathead doesn’t want reality intruding upon his spotless life and mind.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Rod1963
2 years ago

Bono of U2 is selling *five* very large Malibu properties. Liberalism pays!

Dammit, I used to drive by Johnny Carson’s modest bungalow at Malibu. (You could see it from Highway 1.)
He had three Corvettes parked there- one red, one white, one blue.

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Alzaebo
2 years ago

That’s right, Johnny and Jay Leno were both car guys. Jay just turned it up a notch or ten.

Shane
Shane
Reply to  Alzaebo
2 years ago

Bono is without a doubt one of the most hypocritical repulsive excuses for a human being. Beside that cunt Geldof. Boner spends most of his time flitting between houses on numerous continents to avoid any defined residency and therefore taxation. There’s been an exemption on taxable income in Ireland based on supposed artistic or cultural contributions. There was a slight increase in the rate based on earnings in about 07, in and around the height of the Make Poverty History circle jerk, when Boner had been sermonising to the Irish public about how an increase in income tax should be… Read more »

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Shane
2 years ago

Geldorf, who fed the starving children with LiveAid, the children who grew up to set sail for for EU ‘benefits’?

Dtbb
Dtbb
Reply to  Alzaebo
2 years ago

Al. Grandchildren by now.

Dtbb
Dtbb
Reply to  Shane
2 years ago

Shane. Ever read “The Lawdog Files” blog? He can string insults together like nobody’s business.

Shane
Shane
Reply to  Dtbb
2 years ago

I’ll have to. Thanks for the tip.

BestGuest
BestGuest
2 years ago

You have to understand the “editorial viewpoint” at PJM. I discovered this because I used to visit Instapundit regularly. Every so often I would bookmark a post linking to a story that the MSM had not covered as a reference for further investigation/follow-up. Then I noticed that some of these links/stories were being deleted. In each case of a deleted link/story, the facts ended up being the opposite of the initial PJM preferred propaganda narrative.

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
2 years ago

Hawkins missed the essence:

“When you wish that people could be colorblind, you are like a communist who wishes that a person would work as hard for a collective as he would work for his family. Just like it is contrary to human nature to expect communism to work, it is contrary to human nature to expect colorblindness, especially from non-whites. You are like a person who opposes gravity for ethical reasons.”

Frip
Member
Reply to  LineInTheSand
2 years ago

LineIn: “Hawkins missed the essence.” Like Z said, timid avoidance. I like Hawkins, but there’s really no excuse for political writers to “miss” anything. They spend all their time thinking about society and politics. I’ve barely paid attention and I’ve figured it out. If it hadn’t dawned on you from a very early age that humans are all about comparison…ALL the time in EVERY situation, then you’re a fool or a fake. Comparison & resentment. It’s not complicated.

Chaotic Neutral
Chaotic Neutral
2 years ago

I think there is a distinction between libertarianism, as the author defined it, and Ron Paulism. Ron Paul was very successful in the nought decade(2000s) with a certain brand of paleo libertarianism that addressed the peculiar excesses of that decade in a manner that cloaked white interests. In particular, I refer to the absurd neocon overseas adventures, the usual unfair disproportionate taxation of whites, and problems of freedom of association related to classical issues of the American southeast(race). This is exemplified by the pro confederate writings of Paul unearthed toward the end of that decade. The ideology was useful in… Read more »

JEB
JEB
2 years ago

I don’t think it’s circular to say it’s culture not race. I don’t agree, but it isn’t circular. Think of it this way: For the sake of argument lets stipulate that all human populations everywhere have exactly the same potential. What would human history look like given this? Well we can be pretty sure what it would not look like, which is all peoples everywhere advancing in lockstep at the same rate! History is chaotic — even given equal potential, geographical and historical accidents would result in people in some parts of the world getting a jump on those in… Read more »

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  JEB
2 years ago

For example?

Chaotic Neutral
Chaotic Neutral
Reply to  LineInTheSand
2 years ago

The industrial revolution started in England but was spread to France and Germany where they learned and improved it.

Jaqship
Jaqship
Reply to  LineInTheSand
2 years ago

better arguments:
“HBD or no, these blacks/ browns are coming to really *hate* us, so we must rally to defend ourselves and loved ones, and make the gov’t follow, or get the hell out of the way!”

JEB
JEB
Reply to  LineInTheSand
2 years ago

LineInTheSand — For example, even when they are living in the same country as whites, even when their parents are making the same money, when they are going to the same schools, blacks still can’t seem to do as well as whites (or Asians) on any sort of standardized test, or really find much success in any field outside of sports and entertainment. This is much more of an apples-to-apples comparison, and carries a lot more weight than comparing the performance of disease ridden Africa and temperate Europe. Actually, I think it’s the only good argument! If, as liberals had… Read more »

Frip
Member
2 years ago

Zman: “…it allows the timid to avoid noticing.” Really good. Z or someone, please refine that into a maxim.

Georgiaboy61
Georgiaboy61
2 years ago

Re: “The point of this is that you can’t save everyone. In fact, if someone from our side were to sit down with John Hawkins and explain the facts of life, he would probably nod along, but then go right back to chanting the old slogans again. Those old slogans and beliefs are comforting and require no risk.” ZMan, your analysis is correct, insofar as it goes. We can know what Mr. Hawkins writes and says for attribution, but not what he thinks in the privacy of his own thoughts. He may well harbor doubts about Conservatism, Inc., but declines… Read more »

Frip
Member
Reply to  Georgiaboy61
2 years ago

GeorgiaBoy: “It takes years, decades sometimes, before someone acquires the necessary experience, knowledge and perception needed to see through the official smokescreen and begin to make sense of reality.” Bullshit, most of us got the gist when we were in junior high. Your whole comment reads like a Hallmark card.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Frip
2 years ago

Ouch. JoeJah’s saying, “don’t punch right.”

We might need those guys before the Left lures them away with nubile promises.

Southron gallantry, they know what damfool Yankees are like.

Frip
Member
Reply to  Alzaebo
2 years ago

Alzaebo, I am ok with normies being naive, but GeorgiaBoy was giving professional political writers a pass for being naive. Journalists/pundits are savvy and jaded as hell. No way I’m letting that kind of Pollyanna BS slide.

Georgiaboy61
Georgiaboy61
Reply to  Frip
2 years ago

If you’re going to insult people, why don’t you work on doing a better job of it? All you’ve done is show the world what an ass and total jerk you really are. And who do you think you’re kidding about that room temperature IQ of yours?

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Georgiaboy61
2 years ago

Oh sh*t. I do believe this is a fine time to visit Shreveport, way up north. You know, Yankee territory.

John brown
John brown
2 years ago

I have followed you for years. I have marveled at your persuasion tactics. I have listened to all your podcasts. But where do we go from here. ( not a Chicago reference). I can’t listen to Rush anymore. I can’t watch Fox News. The sixty million of us who voted for Trump are quite fed up with all of it. I don’t need some one to tell me that the Washington Post is wrong. I don’t need some one to say” did you see the lies that CNN broadcast last night.” No one cares about CNN except people in the… Read more »

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  John brown
2 years ago

Before we head to Kansas, even Rush was talking white interests on Monday.

Take heart, old friend. I don’t want to miss the Revolution either, but more and more heads are popping up.

Frip
Member
Reply to  John brown
2 years ago

John Brown. After you mentioned the band Chicago, you mentioned Rush. So I thought you were talking about Rush the band, whose lyricist was a Randian libertarian. Then I read Alzaebo’s comment and understood you meant Limbaugh.

Member
2 years ago

“…The mass of men live in mortal fear that they will one day find themselves alone, separated from the pack, facing the dangers of the world alone…”

This is the mentality of all pack animals of which man is one. This is one of the reason that men and dogs are so sympathetic.

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Steve_in_Greensboro
2 years ago

Maybe that’s why I have evolved from a dog person to a cat person. Cats like to go their own way, and occasionally make a point of telling you to “f**k off”, for no good reason, just because they feel like doing so. Of course, I am fundamentally anti-social and tend to put people off their game in social situations, so what the heck? Dirty little secret: We are born alone and die alone. The rest of it just comes and goes. The Z blog is likely my most social thing going right now, and when the crapmasters of the… Read more »

Frip
Member
Reply to  Dutch
2 years ago

Dutch: “Dirty little secret: We are born alone and die alone.” Even dirtier secret: We are born surrounded by at least 8 people and often die in the company of loved ones.

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Frip
2 years ago

Not to be all contradictory, but I have spent a lot of time in nursing homes, ERs, and so on recently, for a family member in his last days. The family kept a vigil for months, so that he was loved and not alone, 24/7. The staffs noted that it almost never happens that way for chronic patients. After the first few days the people stop coming, and don’t appear much any more until the last day or two, if that. Maybe teapartydoc can chime in on the issue. It is nice the dads can be in the delivery room,… Read more »

TheInsolentOne
TheInsolentOne
2 years ago

The ship is definitely submerging down into the waves in real-time. Decades of centralized and entwined corruption has basically sealed our fate as a functioning society going forward. While I don’t subscribe to the greater tribe mentality, it’s going to become a cruel fact of life when the trains stop running on time and the grocery shelves are cleared out. Societies typically fracture down along racial lines when resources become extremely scarce. So while you might not be racially conscious at the moment, the coming conflict will categorize you regardless. Be prepared. With all this said, I pretty much loathe… Read more »

Ursula
Ursula
Reply to  TheInsolentOne
2 years ago

“However, at the moment, it seems that these gullible and desperate minorities are being used almost exclusively as a bludgeon to prevent any type of regional dissolution from occurring.” The minorities certainly are gullible, but I think the desperation is all in their heads. Where else in the world can they live so well and receive so much undeserved respect? Anyway, they are activated by the globalist jews and whites who are indeed using the minorities. In the meantime, however, the minority communities become more emboldened in making unreasonable demands (like decriminalizing criminal behavior of all kinds because it means… Read more »

Dutch
Dutch
2 years ago

Z man said a while back he established his blog because other blogs were moderating and blocking all the best comments. I think we did him proud this time around.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Dutch
2 years ago

I’m grateful to be able to spout off, because I do come from a wildly different perspective, and can practice in front of a crowd.

I’m afraid Z is right. Places like this might not exist in 5 years.

TheInsolentOne
TheInsolentOne
2 years ago

Minorities become liabilities not because they are minorities, but rather due to the parasitic nature of our governmental system that enables the worst of their instincts. That’s largely why we must oppose them at every turn.

If everyone just minded their own business and kept their hands off each other’s property, we wouldn’t be in Defcon 1. But that’s not how the world is presently constructed.

Lorenzo
Lorenzo
2 years ago

I do wonder why the Northern Europeans, intelligent and creative as they are said to be, managed to nearly exterminate themselves in 1914 and 1939 and then, after a third of them having been rescued from Stalin and his successors, are now guaranteeing their demise as a culture by willingly importing hordes of barbarians.

Something seems to have gotten lost in the process of aging.

Shane
Shane
Reply to  Lorenzo
2 years ago

I often think history doesn’t repeat itself but it tends to have spin offs. Ancient Greece had a legacy of genius which still resonates throughout the current West, albeit begrudgedly thanks to Progs. It could never fully unite around a concept of Hellenism bar exceptional circumstances such as Xerxes invasion. Not unlike Pre World War 1 Europe. Throughout the Medieval period there was a sense of Christendom. There were Wars but never an apocalypse such as the Great War. The military historian John Keegan refered to it as the great energies which had spread the West and expanded massivlely the… Read more »

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Shane
2 years ago

It may be Nature’s cycle. Nature’s “balance” is regularly acheived by mass dieoffs.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Lorenzo
2 years ago

We had “help”. None of it was accidental.
We were bamboozled, stampeded, and yeah, we fell for it. They are *good* at what they do.

Ursula
Ursula
Reply to  Lorenzo
2 years ago

Hmmm… just who managed to bring about two world wars that got all the white men killing each other? Who could it be that whispered in leaders’ ears, who riled intellectuals in universities, who organized insurgents to a cause, who profited from wars. (((Who?))) White people have paid a steep cost for being so trusting and gullible.

black Man
black Man
2 years ago

Why then are separatist groups in Africa not supported by more right wing groups in America? Many African countries are a diversity nightmare! Far too many diverse people with more genetic diversity than the racial ones that are so obvious in the US. Yet, the US sends aid to support despotic governments in Africa that keep the almost 50 failed states working somewhat but providing smart migrants to the west. I guess It is easier to trade with 50 failed states than maybe 250 failed or likely to fail states. I have agreed with Zman about his idea of separation… Read more »

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  black Man
2 years ago

Absolutely right. We need to stop feeding the fire. It isn’t going to help anyone in America, just make it worse for anyone already here.

Ursula
Ursula
Reply to  black Man
2 years ago

But this stuff will continue as long as corruption in the U.S. government serves the unquenchable corporate interests.

Member
2 years ago

Race is intimately intertwined with culture. It is why there’s never been a successful peaceful culture among the negroes of sub-Saharan Africa.

The arrival of whites enabled negroes to lengthen their expected life expectancy and delivered a higher quality of life too.

Anglo-Celts, Germans, and the Slavic whites are racial brothers and have had a more successful culture than any other.

sirlancelot
sirlancelot
2 years ago

Well this thread was one hell of a ride. it’s funny how these things can go completely off topic but that’s what makes it interesting. As one of those mediocre minds the crossing over to this side came many years ago. The left’s social engineering directly affected my ability to get a promotion or transfer to a bigger and better paying department. Lamented to a fellow co-worker all those years ago how unjust it was. He said nothing would change as long as the working slobs were being kicked around. Only when the white color folks started to feel the… Read more »