Continuing my experimental phase, the show this week is about ways to talk to our normie friends and family, in a way that leads them our way. I’ve been around civic nationalists recently and I was reminded of conversations I’ve had with others about how tough it is sometimes for dissidents to address the civic nationalist arguments in a way that brings them our way. This week I thought a show on how to talk to normie in a positive way would be interesting.
I was not sure how I wanted to structure it, so I took some of the things that have come up recently in my normie interactions and made those segment topics. Then I just turned the mic on and started talking about each one, as if I was giving a short lecture to a classroom full of civic nationalist. I was thinking of it like a class on dissident politics for freshmen level students. I wanted it to be accessible to the sorts of people who don’t spend any time on this side of the great divide.
The key thing with talking to our normie friends, family and acquaintances is to not become adversarial. The huge blunder our side makes on social media is to mock these people as if they are enemies. A little bit of that is fine, but fifty people blasting a civic nationalist on Twitter is not winning him over. It’s only hardening his position and making it easier for the gatekeepers to keep him inside. These people are future allies and compatriots, not forever enemies of the cause.
Effective organizing is building lots of on-ramps to this side of the great divide, to make it easier for all sorts of people to come this way. Language that will work on the 2A civic nationalist will not necessarily work on the spergy libertarian. The Sean Hannity watching patriot is going to respond to different rhetoric than the Tucker watching Donald Trump supporter. Dissident politics needs to be like a department store, with something for all the types of white people out there.
This inability to build on ramps is why prior race realists have always failed to gain any traction. They struck people as lunatics. They had one on ramp. You had to pay the lunatic a toll in order to cross over. The now defunct alt-right suffered from the same defect, as it became loaded down with insider jargon and factionalism. All the ways into it were narrow and went passed people that most people would find odd. It’s why they could never break out of their subculture.
It is the heart of the optics debate. If dissident ideas are to gain traction with typical white people, it has to creep up on them like the fog. One day, they just find themselves on this side of the divide, without realizing they made the journey. That happens by having lots of ways here and lots of pleasant sounding people they can trust, subtly pointing them in this direction. That can only work if there are lots of doors through which they can pass into this type of politics.
This week I have the usual variety of items in the now standard format. Spreaker has the full show. I am up on Google Play now, so the Android commies can take me along when out disrespecting the country. I am on iTunes, which means the Apple Nazis can listen to me on their Hitler phones. The anarchists can catch me on iHeart Radio. YouTube also has the full podcast. Of course, there is a download link below.
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This Week’s Show
Contents
- 00:00: Opening
- 05:00: Hate Speech
- 15:00: Public – Private Tyranny
- 25:00: Who Owns You?
- 35:00: Peaceful Separation
- 45:00: The Value Of Citizenship
Direct Download, The iTunes, Google Play, iHeart Radio, RSS Feed, Bitchute
Full Show On Spreaker
Full Show On YouTube
I had a conversation with a normie yesterday that started with her talking about how much she like Dennis Prager. After a series of back and forths we got through how people like Dennis Prager and Ben Shapiro support ethno-nationalism for their own people but condemned it in white people to how the guy who got life in prison in Charlottesville was a political prisoner for promoting white rights not for killing someone by showing drunk drivers can mow over entire families and get 10 years and at the end of the conversation she quite seriously had the realization and… Read more »
Yeah, pointing out tyranny by minority seems to be really effective. I use that tract when talking about gays and trannies.
I saw yesterday that I had to be very clear that I supported Jewish people and the Jewish state for them or I would have lost her right then. Going after the sacred cows would have ended the conversation and I cannot honestly state that I support rights for the for the degenerates so that would end the conversation right there and identify me as a ‘bad person’
And that is precisely why I am a bad spokesperson for the DR. I am really impatient with dorks who think they are morally obligated to support Israel and perverts. Turning over tables is usually an impediment to conversation.
The TRS guys had a good take on this:
I’d really like to extend the Jews a right to have a homeland that is for them but…they won’t extend that same right to our homelands. They are even attacking Japan for wanting to keep it Japanese!
(blunt the goy vs jew problem).
As long as they are willing to support our rights to our homelands then I will happily support their rights to theirs.
Just point out the hypocrisy. It’s not that you’re against Israel or Jewish interests, it’s about fairness.
I served six years as an enlisted Navy cryptologist, the same guys as the USS Liberty crew, back in the 70s and 80s in the Med. I learned the whole story of the Liberty and more about the Pueblo after my active duty ended. I do recall on one deployment mentioning the Liberty in the presence of a Naval Intelligence lieutenant and getting a stern lecture on our “closest ally”. Anyway, I’m just a working class white guy who loves my people as I expect everyone to love theirs. I’ve got close family that are of partly Jewish descent and… Read more »
“a ‘routine’ friendly fire incident.”
Of course it was. A prolonged multiphase attack by multiple aircraft and ships, including rocket fire and aerial strafing, followed by napalm, torpedoes, surface rockets and strafing from a surface craft, happens all the time. And not only in wartime. Why just the other day at the range a fella barely escaped being napalmed due to a simple mistake.
Greatest ally EVAR!
Go to http://www.unz.com and just do a search (upper right hand corner) – for “USS Liberty” (include the quotes). You’ll find plenty of reading material Oh yeah, and your Vietnam vet friend thinks it’s OK for the United States to attack a country based on a hyped up incident (we initiated the Tonkin Gulf exchange by firing first) – and where we had no casualties. And yet excuses away a direct UNPROVOKED attack – where there were 34 dead, 171 wounded – and we almost lost a ship? You see that sounds like an almost perfect opportunity to call somebody… Read more »
According to Paul Johnson’s History of the Jews the old Hebrews at all times gave themselves fits trying to govern themselves and flourished instead in those eras when they lived in Babylon or were simply ruled by others. My guess, this is baked into their DNA, just as our relative trust of strangers, which leaves us defenseless against subversion, was baked in during the unprecedented North European out breeding during the Middle Ages.
It’s also about hypocrisy. Most people don’t even know about the USS Liberty incident. So their view point of Israel is one of unfettered goodness. There is no bad thing that Israel could have ever done. Killing Palestinians doesn’t really count in most people’s heads. But you can setup cognitive dissonance within normie heads – by asking them why they simply don’t care about the deaths and the subsequent coverup those deaths – of US servicemen. Where does your loyalty REALLY lie – is a simple question to ask of a person who tries to discount the Liberty incident. Yes… Read more »
I agree, Ant Man, Israel is their Sicily.
I’m thinking “The Godfather” here.
Carlsdad, I’m curiously cool about the USS Liberty. For some reason it doesn’t ring my bell. Maybe because I have no idea what was going on with that, and can’t relate.
That’s just my reaction- a normie friend and Vietnam vet vigorously defended Israel saying it was a ‘routine’ friendly fire incident.
He stopped talking to me after 20 years of daily calls, too, much later, as I came to realize the holocaust was absurd, lunatic bullsh*t and once explained why. The movie, “Judgement at Nuremberg”, defined his moral universe.
Israel is not the Homeland of the Jews. If it were, then all the Jews would go and live there, and then they would forever after be free of the turrrrble scourge of all the antisemitisms. But, as we observe, Jews do not go and live in their alleged Homeland, and they don’t want to, and they never will. They are quite comfortable right here, delightedly relaxing on some cushions in the shade, contentedly sipping the blood of their dumb goy hosts. In fact, what we see is the reverse: hordes of Israelis migrating to the West, Jewishly using whatever… Read more »
The goal here is to get whites to think in terms of white interests. We can only do that by not spooking them with demands that go against a lifetime of social conditioning. I don’t care what happens in the Middle East. Getting our tribe to think like a tribe is what we should be putting all of our energy into. If we can get enough of our people to think in terms of group interests…all of this other stuff will work itself out. Steps 1 and 2 first. Whitney is correct, too many potential allies will tune-out if we… Read more »
The biggest part of becoming “red-pilled” isn’t so much learning about reality, it is about removing the emotional blinders that were put on your head as a child. There is a reason they want to target younger and younger children with their propaganda. As has been noticed before, there is nobody so blind as those who refuse to see. It is literally painful to deal with information that goes against what you feel, especially if you have felt that way since you were young enough to believe in Santa. It will give you a headache. It is just a whole… Read more »
Homeschool or bring back one room schoolhouses that were the bedrock of education before the government got involved… Everyone can’t teach but everyone can pitch in to make it happen…
Education money needs to follow the student. That will get the government out fairly quickly for most things, because the public schools will have to fight alongside the private for butts in seats. Standardized testing will sort out the wheat from the chaff. The major companies, like ACT, SAT, would love to get into the business of certifying the primary and secondary schools wrt curriculum efforts. This would be little different from today’s tech certification and such. A side benefit would be that the best and brightest move on at their own pace, and folk can get certified, even without… Read more »
I think a lot of you dissidents underestimate yourselves and your effectiveness. Also – I think that many of you suffer from a premature case of defeatism. I come from a pozzed shitlib family where politics DID tear us apart, largely because the morals and ethics that were part and parcel of them. It was awful, but even they are asking questions now – and starting to notice things they tried their best to ignore. Reality will not be denied. Said another way, God (or Darwin and Murphy if you prefer) – will not be mocked. What goes around, eventually… Read more »
You are cheering me up, JS. I tend to feel it’s going the other way, but bad news is all to visible while good news remains hidden until it becomes obvious.
Interesting observations. It has often been said that the best salesman for the Right is the Left. It’s as if the Right sometimes does not believe in cause-and-effect. Liberalism has been dominant in the West for centuries and as long as that dominance was associated with bourgeois comfort for the middle class, the middle class went along with Liberalism’s program of ‘liberation’ of ‘the oppressed’. But now ‘the oppressed’ have become politically and legally dominant and the middle class is under siege by globalism, the middle class is looking around and realizing that *they* are not ‘the oppressed’ *but nobody… Read more »
CivNats believe deeply in fairness and the rule of law. Start there. Focus first on areas where society is openly unfair to whites relative to other races. (Also, use Asians as a way to get around their fear sounding racist.)
1. Affirmative action – why is alright to discriminate against white and Asians
2. Advocacy Groups – other groups have advocacy groups, why not whites
3. White Privilege – do poor whites have white privilege; what about Asians privilege
4. Immigration – immigration hurts poor people of any color
5. Pride – if other groups should be proud of their heritage, why not whites
Also, I like to point out that ethno-genetic nationalism is about love for one’s own people, not hatred for others. I also tell them that separation is the most certain way to eliminate racism because it is not possible for one race to oppress another if they do not live together and share the same political and legal institutions. Most civnats don’t even know their civnats, they have just absorbed a collection of political and cultural dispositions as those dispositions have been radiated by ‘the culture’. Here’s a place where the poverty of modern education actually plays to our advantage.… Read more »
Exactly. The vast majority of CivNats are good people just to trying to follow the rules of their society. That’s been turned against them. They won’t get turned in a conversation. Our job isn’t to convince them of anything. It’s to put little cracks in their worldview. Little bits of truth that make them think. Also, I’m serious about the Asian/Indian thing being a great way to get CivNats to think. Blacks are sacred so best to avoid. Jews and Hispanics also don’t much, but whites feel zero guilt for Asians and South Asians. Use it. “Wait, why are there… Read more »
Re: ” CivNats believe deeply in fairness and the rule of law. Start there”
Exactly why I brought up the USS Liberty incident and comparing our treatment of Iran vs Israel.
It’s pretty easy to start highlighting the hypocrisies and “unfairness” displayed in the cloud people’s foreign policy – once you start making appropriate comparisons.
You don’t even need to portray the argument as an attack against Israel – but rather as a comparison and argument that maybe we shouldn’t be treating Iran so badly.
“If Israel gets to attack us and get away with it – why can’t Iran?”
This is such an important conversation. One never converts someone by shaming, but by embracing. The Right has a public image of intolerance and violent prejudice. It is important to demonstrate that we are normal people with a different point of view. A very important way of getting people to listen to us is to explain that it is OK to believe different things, and that our culture has always functioned under a tension, because people bring different perspectives and priorities to the table. The trick is to mediate the tension by promoting the idea that different perspectives are OK.… Read more »
Nothing to add. Totally agree.
Correct is what creates the most happiness for the greatest number. If you think about it, the implications go deep.
Stockholm, 10pm in an alley: Four feral Somali men and a teenaged Swedish girl. I can think of something that will make 80% of those five people very happy. But i don’t think it’s going to be correct.
Incorrect. You’re talking about democracy , where 51% votes for what they want and gets to tell the other 49% to go screw itself. “Correct” in the case of the United States is something akin to what we had in the original form of the Republic – where power was disbursed and many things were simply removed from the realm of government – and were expected to be “solved” thru non governmental means. I once saw somebody describe the operating principle of the US as “live and let live” – because that is the only way where a disparate people… Read more »
Agree
Not politically correct.
This is crucial. Early on in a conversation you must make sure that your interlocutor understands that the MSM is untrustworthy. You can have daily 30 minute persuasive conversation with someone, but if they then go back to school, read the Times, or watch television, all your efforts will be undone. They must be shown clearly and concretely that what the media is providing to them is propaganda.
GREAT topic. I just had a local “letter to the editor” published … it was exceptionally difficult to write because the audience is mainstream, they’re strangely proud of their plebeian ignorance, and they don’t take too well to the 2×4-to-head arguments of logic/reason. The topic was refugee resettlement. A lot of the older Christians want to help “those poor people,” having seen one too many UNICEF commercials. A lot of the “conservatives” want to help “those loyal interpreters” that helped the Empire. A lot of the liberals want to help “those poor huddled masses who don’t look like me.” I… Read more »
“The topic was refugee resettlement.” It is very, very, very important to understand… Morally and politically speaking, there is no such thing as “refugee resettlement.” Refugees have no moral or political right to “resettle” ANYWHERE. Refugees, strictly speaking, are the quite temporary victims of a political, military, or environmental crisis in their home countries. They are the recipients of a humanitarian effort to preserve their safety in the face of the specific and temporary crisis. They nominally require “refuge” or “asylum” until, and ONLY until, the temporary crisis has resolved, at which time they must be repatriated to their home… Read more »
You, sir, win this week’s Zman Order of Merit…with oak leaf cluster and diamonds.
Gotta say, Marko won the Internet yesterday with:
“Because they don’t want the Jews to subvert their advanced civilization, duh”
Too bad the awards aren’t
*cough* related *cough*
This type of thinking is what our enemies fear the most. It’s why they censor anyone even remotely capable of pushing the overton window towards our side. This is definitely the way forward, it’s why they worked so hard to stymie us during the last big push by promoting fifth column people within our ranks to create dissension and infighting. We need to quietly increase our numbers until an opportunity presents itself that we can exploit for an actual big gain in changing the mindset of the masses. We had the bandwagon effect in 2016 and that was a massive… Read more »
Yep, there’s a lot of “I Know A Good One” out there, but note that using that rebuttal presupposes/concedes there are bad ones out there. From there the argument is a matter of degree/proportions/causes among racial groupings. Baby steps.
Baby steps of the Overton window, aka shifting the frame of the acceptable.
My big fails are when I don’t let someone show off *their* smarts, letting them think out loud explaining to me. Bad listener.
Another thing that helps our numbers is the fact that once you come over to our side, our adversaries treat you as irredeemable.
Besides, just like the arrow in the FedEx logo, once you notice the propaganda, you cannot unnotice it.
Ha! Quick quiz, everbody, where is the disappearing arrow in the Fedex logo?
Spoiler: it’s between the ‘e’ and the ‘x’.
Duh.
Now take a closer look at the Amazon logo, with its curved arrow linking A to Z.
Good persuasive unconscious visual design really is worth its weight in gold. Both El Lissitzky and Fritz Lang knew that.
Take note, dissenters. Cultivate your talent.
There’s an arrow in the FedEx logo? I’m failing this eye test. It’s just Fed in white butted up against Ex in orange….
ETA: Oh, FFS, I just saw it. I am now a case study.
I’ve found playing the race card by embracing the diversity card to be effective with normies: “I actually support affirmative action. In an increasingly multicultural society group interest organizations seem to be a natural thing. Here in this (city, town, university, high school) we have many organizations that are organized around group identity and they pursue the interests of that particular group and their position in the (society, town, university). There are local black interest groups and local Hispanic group interests, as well as national interests. There are similar organizations for Asians and Jew and all sorts of other ethnic… Read more »
That’s good. I also like saying White Community instead of white people. It seems to resonate.
And for some weird reason voice text capitalizes White Community but not white people.
“I also like saying White Community instead of white people.”
Good idea.
How about also talking about the divergent interests of the Crime Community and the Crime Victim Community? Or, more sharply, the Rape Community and the Rape Victim Community?
More good framing, DE.
Whitney’s just given us the key to translate Identity into normie.
Using “Community” short-circuits their defensive “don’t label me!” reaction, too.
One little step at a time.
Oooh. White Community.
I really, really likee.
Plus, that’s speaking in Leftie, the official language of our empire.
Good point. White Community sounds better.
I haven’t listened yet, but this is a very important topic. We need numbers and the patriotic, yet misguided Hannity/Rush-folks should be on our side. One thing I try to do is explain the 1965 Hart-Celler Immigration Act, along with the ‘24 Act and the 1790 Naturalization Act. Virtually everyone I talk to has no idea about our immigration history. They think the increase in diversity is solely due to illegal immigration. It’s important to plant the idea in their heads that the ethnic composition of America was very important and we didn’t think diversity was a strength in the… Read more »
Exactly what I just came here to write. This is a topic on which the DR community needs to really pitch in and help each other. Please share anything you’ve said, any slant you’ve taken, that has proven effective.
As a Gen Xer growing up in the 80s it can be hard to remember when “diversity” was restricted to a few large cities and the south.
As a fellow Gen-Xer, I was actually witness to the real-time conceptual slippage which led from Diversity 1.0, White Normie Bien-Pensant Edition, to Diversity 3.0, Hate-Fuelled Anti-White Genocide Edition. Here is what I saw happen, beginning with my studies at Most Prestigious University back in the 1980s: 1. In an earlier time, prior to the civil rights movement, the segregationist Jim Crow regime was very real, it was very cruel and brutal, and it very much had to be stopped. Thankfully it was stopped. But let us not forget that it was real. 2. Even growing up during the 1970s… Read more »
I try to suggest to normies the observation that most caused me abandon conventional politics: Non-whites, as a group, are tribal in a way that most whites cannot imagine.
Conservatives and old-school liberals hope that we’re all going to become color blind.
Instead of that we get, for example, “conservative” black Reps like JC Watts who still wants affirmative action for blacks or “conservative” Hispanic Reps like Marco Rubio who still want massive immigration of their kind.
After enough such cases, with few counters, one concludes that non-whites generally put tribe above values and cannot do otherwise.
It can be frustrating to try to talk to normies but we such we all were at one time. We will never convert our people in massive numbers under the present age but creating a small, committed core is what we will need to rebuild. It seems more and more people are slowly waking up but a critical juncture might come next week when the 2nd Amendment folks, many who are /ourguys/ hold their demonstration in Richmond, Virginia. It has a lot of promise of a serious show of force but it also has a lot of potential to turn… Read more »
Speaking of immigration and normies, check out the bait-and-switch going on at Taki’s. Taki used to run columns by Tucker Carlson, then it was “collaborative” columns by Tucker Carlson and Neil Patel. In the past few weeks, it’s just been Patel. And, now, wonder of wonders, Patel is coming out in favor of an immigration plan that will favor more smart people who look like him, but give them all the rights of native born Americans — strictly for the benefit of native-born Americans, you understand. https://www.takimag.com/article/everyone-is-wrong-on-skilled-immigration/ The idea that America already has a sufficient native born talent pool to… Read more »
Taki’s daughter on her impression of India:
“For all India’s flaws, and contradictions, Indians are warm, and unassuming, and not nearly as scary to me as Westerners. Ironically, I felt more trusting of Indians knowing they might be trying to cheat me, than of gringos dressed up as do-gooders. What I liked most about my trip was being surrounded by so many of them. Indians are elegant, and well-dressed. They have a superior sense of style, color, and perfume.”
I noticed that.
I used to think highly of the little Greek but I guess that his daughter is responsible for what his site has become.
One of the best things to do for normie is just lead good lives and be normal.
Then throw out the red pills on occasion.
But that does not work if we are ne’er do wells and live the bohemian life styles.
We have to live like we want a normal civilization and get involved in community.
Then when we point people to a Z Man or a VDare or many others out there it is more likely to work.
We have to live like we want a normal civilization and get involved in community…
Exactly right but if your surrounded by people who aren’t like you or hate you then getting involved in their Community only helps them which is why I advocate for building our own Communities so we are helping and strengthening our own people…
With Arthur Sido’s Richmond in mind, above, let me repeat bilejone’s great contribution:
http://raconteurreport.blogspot.com/2020/01/common-sense-resistance.html?m=1
I like this because:
1. It uses what we have.
2. It gives normie something to grasp.
3. It organizes real political involvement.
4. It’s the seed of other fraternal benefit societies.
The Christians, for example, are a self-contained Community within the larger “community”, thriving at times because of their focus on the personal, with a loyalty to the greater.
Heck, we whites built all of these institutions. Let us resurrect what works and is there, infusing it with new life.
I agree, i used to go help teach inner city youths basic skills until I started noticing not one black male got involved helping their own community. With the exception of one black lady the entire help the inner city youth project was made up of white church people.
The black male and the black parents must be willing to help their own and many times they are not.
It is too easy to blame whitey.
So yes, by getting involved in community I meant a community that we know appreciates us and wants and needs us.
My wife and I sponsored a child from Kenya whom my wife met on a mission trip when the girl was 12. That was twenty years ago. She went to college and grad school in the US, then went home to teach. She told me that when she was at school (at a Christian college in Florida) she would volunteer to go help the local blacks. Three comments stand out: “They were richer than I’ve ever been.” “I was always the only black person helping.” “No-one would help us. Grown men would watch me struggle with a heavy box” (of… Read more »
I have never seen anyone convinced by anyone over politics ever. Political belief is a subset of physiognomy and there are simply too few people as a percentage of the population with the physiognomy required to have beliefs outside of the norms. The future of this country is South Africa (pessimistic) or Brazil (optimist). Trying to convince people who aren’t already on the path toward dissident politics is a waste of time. The only thing to be done is keep your head down, work and make money, to try to get out of this global capitalist Jewish controlled hellscape.
No fate but what we make.
Wish I could disagree with XY, but I strongly suspect he is right. It’s very difficult not to be black-pilled these days.
The most effective rhetorical weapon I’ve seen with regards to Human biodiversity isn’t talking about crime rates, IQ, and other things. Those topics will make most people immediately shut their minds off and go into thought-crime mode.
However, say something along the lines of “They’re just born different, and that’s okay”, and you trigger all the logical connections implicitly, and it’s very hard for them to resist.
Or say Germans and Italians are born different, which truly they are, and we appreciate each for different reasons. We don’t buy Italian cars or German designs. 50 more small steps to Africans don’t do algebra, so don’t make them.
“They’re just born different, and that’s okay” Exactly. One thing I sometimes do (with sports fan type guys — which BTW I totally don’t get) is to point out West African dominance in sprinting and jumping sports, East Africans in the marathon, and so forth. They generally happily nod along. Then when we’ve established some common ground, slip in that since THOSE differences are clear, perhaps there may be OTHER group differences. Responding to your comment because when sports normie starts looking uncomfortable, all I say is “It’s okay to NOTICE.” Don’t need to hammer each point home on the… Read more »
Funny, I was talking with a black friend, along with a group of other blacks in Baltimore.
We were talking about shaving.
He, a tad guiltily, looked at me and said, “I don’t want to be racist, but…”
“…a lot of black dudes don’t shave because razors make our skin break out in little bumps.”
I chuckled and said, “it’s okay to be racial, brah, we’re all different”, the others nodded, and we kept chatting about skin care products.
Pseudofolliculitis barbae. Saw lots of it as an Army doc. Profiles for shaving (permission to wear the kind of long stubble / short beards that bump-fighter razors leave behind (they have a sort of cow-catcher). But, dammit, that was the ONLY difference in GIs. We were all green.
Former Army Engineer Officer here. How about the Muslim MD who went on a shooting rampage at Ft Hood? Or the MesoAmerican color-wearing gang members who enlist in the infantry only for the weapons training? Or the Black female caucus at West Point, un-uniformly attired, raising their clenched fists in the black power ( or go grrl, I don’t know ) salute in front of the historic central barracks. Or women being held to significantly lower cambat fitness standards or being individually “coached” by male NCOs in order to pass Ranger school. Once, as a young company commander I was… Read more »
Simple , relatable, concrete arguments. Why get married if not starting a family? Gay couples don’t make babies. Babies are the future. Therefore gay marriage makes no sense. Civil union for benefits but marriage has more important purpose. Are you glad your mother didn’t abort you? Etc. Statistics also useful as long as you don’t get lost in them. Helps suburban normie realize most diversity or weirdness he sees is on the screen. Also car accidents kill as many as guns. Then about 2/3 guns deaths are suicide, most others are cops/criminals. Normie doesn’t get scared driving yet he’s far… Read more »
Have not listened yet, but how do you get past the ‘I love the military and police’ attitude of so many. There are so many normiecons that are *proud* that their sons and daughters are dying in mercenary tribal wars that our tribe has no business being involved in (and proud that they themselves ‘served’ in Korea, Iraq 1/2, Afganistan, etc). None of those wars defended the American people and made America safer…
I did this to a younger military vet a number of years back – who had “served” while the US was involved over in Yugoslavia – and just couldn’t kick the mental conditioning that the US’s role in the world was to be a global policeman. There was an online argument going on about whether or not we (the US) should continue to be involved overseas (Mideast) and continue to supply massive amounts of “foreign aid” – to Israel. If I remember correctly – we were coming up on the July 4th holiday. He kept arguing about how “only the… Read more »
Right. The long occupation of the Middle East has made a lot soldiers rethink things.
Find agreement.
“I wish they were defending OUR border”.
I’d stress needless loss of life. Nobody serves to die for a bad cause. Avoid criticism of military/police. Keep in mind most are decent people. Much championing is because of lefty hatred.
But the Hannitycons are insistent that they *are dying for a good cause*. To them, fighting Persia and Babylon is pretty much a Biblical injunction, and if not, it’s to help ‘bring the light of freedom to the world’ or ‘to civilize the barbarians’…
I just go straight to questioning their patriotism. Since they obviously don’t understand jack shit about the intentions of the people who founded this country.
Like I said above: tell them to go find a revolutionary war soldier’s grave – and take a piss on it.
And also tell them to stop telling me how much of a patriot and “constitutional conservative” you are – because you are not.
Might as well drive the shiv in right to the core.
Ask the soldiers about that. Or put normie on the spot and ask him why it is. Ask for a name whose life was worth it. If you can’t convert there’s always the third party listening.
Talking with an elderly relative recently (we’ll call him “Norm”), I (call me “RPM” for Red Pill Man) brought up a red pill info bit: “Did you hear that abortion can take place in New York right up to the moment of birth? The governor here got a round of applause for that one.” Norm: I can’t believe that! That can’t be true! RPM: All true. Norm: Something like that can’t happen in this country. You’ll have to prove it to me! RPM: Check your In Box later. Norm: I intend to! RPM: I sent a nice, Normie source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/01/30/new-york-abortion-law-liberal-leaders-celebration-death-life-column/2670049002/… Read more »
Hey! I have an AOL address. I tell young eye-rollers that I have such because I’m an early adopter: I got email in 1994 when I knew a grand total of two other people who had it. It’s free, it works, what the hell.
“I can’t believe that! That can’t be true!“
Yeah, I get that quite often. One problem is that no few of the older ones won’t believe something unless it’s in the New York Times (America’s paper of record!) or similar legacy source. That the NYT is run by people who hate us (including Norm) is also not believable to poor Norm. Frustrating.
I hear you both Brothers…I was at dinner with a bunch of older folks the other night and everyone of them was frustrated with what was going on but instead of what can we do and where can we help it was I’m going to enjoy my time left and hopefully die before it all falls apart and of course the obligatory I’m sorry for you and your kids and our kids and grandkids…I just had to keep my mouth shut because I didn’t know them that well to let them have it…
More interesting would be to know whether they had children. Progeny make all the difference. When you have children, or at least have strong ties to your nation and community, your responsibilities never end.
My neighbor, recently deceased in his 90’s – was a lineman, Lineman. Before that his ‘office’ was a caboose (when they had those). I too hear this theme, with a dollop of rose colored glasses, denial, and apathy. My wife has spent many hours on the phone fixing a screw up in our health coverage – too many hours to list. My daughter, a sole proprietor in her mid 20’s pays some $500.00 per month for health “insurance” (what they used to call “catastrophic coverage”). Yet when I mentioned my daughter’s cost to my elderly but still sentient elderly mother,… Read more »
Mike_C,
I hear you, it can be frustrating, but also a challenge to know your material. Yes, when the lies of the media are accepted, whole cloth as the prevailing “truth” – and the truth, stated results in doubts – right there you have a chance to move a Normie closer to the pill colored Red.
And I am not one to declare that my seniors, or yours should just be waiting for their appointment with the Soylent Green department. They still vote, have disposable income, and impact other people.
Another tack I take goes like this: RPM: Don’t you think that bringing in people from other countries based on their “best and brightest” is immoral? Normie: We only want the best here! RPM: Yeah, but think of it. By taking their “best and brightest”, aren’t we actually draining their countries of the very people that are needed to make it a better place to live? Normie I hadn’t thought of it that way. RPM: So we take away jobs for American kids, hand them to the “best and brightest” foreigners. While also burying those same kids in debt for… Read more »
Great topic, great comments, and good luck. I found it interesting that Z talked about looking at this topic as you would if you were a college teacher holding class. As a former college teacher and seeing what was occurring rapidly in my last years in academia I found the analogy amusing to say the least. Unlike many of the people here I know few if any libertarians or civic nationalists. I was and the people I know/knew are left wing and I have simply turned people against me with any discussion of any thing of importance. Mostly now I… Read more »
We’ve all been there, more or less. Work on bringing others, one by one, out of the suffocating environment they live in today, as you have lived. It is rewarding work, even if you can’t share what you are doing with most of the people you have contact with.
Doing the right thing is it’s own reward.
“not knowing how to shut up and walk away when he had one of his few victories”
Yeah, that’s a tough one. I’ve started thinking of these sorts of conversations as analogous to opening a container that you don’t want to destroy. That is, the tool you’re using is a wedge, and you’re opening the container by degrees. Patience and self restraint. The info dump-turned-rant (done a few of those, sorry to admit – leaves the other party looking at you wide-eyed) is a sledge hammer. Satisfying to wield, but destroys too much.
Good stuff, Mike C.
“opening a container that you don’t want to destroy.”
I am not a “citizen” of America. I am an American ethnically. Empires have citizens. This talk about citizens being like stockholders or owners in a corporation is flawed fundamentally. It is much more akin to being a member of a family. You want things to go well for your family not for selfish reasons (at least not entirely), but because they are family. There is no externalized reason. It is entirely internal. This thinking about citizenship vs national is exactly where the whole thing falls apart. It’s getting a foundational point wrong. We are not citizens, we are members… Read more »
I completely agree. The difficulty with America is that it’s tied up with the Enlightenment and ideas about creating a reason-based society. To admit America is a nation is to admit the American experiment failed (or was a bait and switch), even though nationalism was always a part of the equation.
As wise as the founders were, you wonder sometimes if they really thought it through, or if they were grifters. Not a comforting thought.
“The difficulty with America is that it’s tied up with the Enlightenment and ideas about creating a reason-based society.”
I always wondered why people b*tched about the Enlightenment.
Now I get it. I finally get it:
“akin to being a member of a family. You want things to go well for your family not for selfish reasons (at least not entirely), but because they are family. There is no externalized reason.”
Part of it has to do with the fact that the idea that the Americans were a people was so obvious to everyone at the time that it went without saying. Despite that, they still ended up writing about our being a British people and our British brethren and to ourselves and our posterity. The vast majority of people in America were either British or German and even the Germans were a fairly small minority at the time. I posted a comment that didn’t show up about how all of our public conversations are poisoned with emotional rhetoric and sophistry… Read more »
They made a lot of compromises for union’s sake. That required the Paines and Jeffersons and that ilk. Not unlike Lincoln and the abolitionists, not unlike today really. Lots of radicals to keep happy. Hanging together with people who want to break up. Makes you wonder if immigration is a way of uniting people against the new boogeyman, because it’s obvious Americans aren’t compatible with each other.
The FTN guys did a good show about that. The ‘founding fathers’ were far more pozzed than the rest of the Americans, which is why we got the first few immigration and naturalization bills to go our way.
http://fashthenation.com/2019/12/ftn-focus-sellout-nation/
I always look forward to the music at the end of the show. But this week I am rather perplexed by the choice. Omnia is the musical personification of internationalism. Their songs are sung in English, French, Breton, Finnish, German, Dutch, Swedish, Latin, and Hindi, and play Celtic harp, mouth harp, hurdy-gurdy, bodhrán, guitar, bouzouki, didgeridoo, flutes of all kinds, bagpipes, various drums and percussion instruments.(from Wikipedia). Of course they really need to harp on the Persian and Indian parts. Interesting sounding song, but I am sure the members of this band would love to see us exiled or otherwise… Read more »
Whew! The Zman must be cleverly trolling his more astute, cosmopolitan listeners.
Make Og’s bony, protruding brow furrow in thought.
Og lost. Og not know.
“All the ways into it were narrow and went passed people that most people would find odd. It’s why they could never break out of their subculture.” There’s something to that, but then… what about Trump? Outside of the impeachment nonsense, he really is what the Left says he is: an orange haired dirtbag. From Spy MAGAzine to Howard Stern to WWF, he spent 40+ years in the media as a freak (unlike, say, Bill Clinton in 1992). He’s the most un-evangelical person in America (remember his “Two Corinthians” gaffe? He’s probably never read the Bible in his life), yet… Read more »
I awoke this morning thinking, “the Zman is a historian”, one who can describe the sweep of history as it occurs.
And we all like seeing our place in history.
Agreed. Persuasion entails working from where the audience already is to coax/seduce them to move closer to your own.
“You’re not harming someone if you say you don’t want to live next to them, or I don’t want to live in that kind of neighborhood. You’re not causing them any harm. In fact, you’re doing them a service, because they don’t want you around them, either. They don’t want to be around people who are not like them, and you don’t want to be around people who are not like you. So why would you force yourself into their world or vice versa?” This may seem reasonable to you, but it represents the fundamental disagreement of the civil rights… Read more »
The whole legal vs illegal immigration bs is just an example of how public dialogue has become infested with sophistry/emotional rhetoric. There is very little you can discuss in public when it comes to just about any political topic that is not just overwhelmed with sophistry and emotional rhetoric. It is absolutely impossible to discuss a subject with somebody who has embraced the sophistry. You cannot talk about a subject with someone who has been manipulated with emotion. You are never talking about the thing. You are talking about how someone is made to feel about the thing. It is… Read more »
Long time lurker here. I’ve never seen anyone’s politics be swayed by persuasion. I’ve had conversations with people who are, quite frankly, people who should have been on the lunatic ramp some time ago, but they cannot bring themselves to criticize anything Donald Trump has or has not done. These are folks who were convinced Obama was a Muslim from Kenya, when I tell them that all Trump has done is pass a tax cut they become hysterical. Pointing to how the economy is great, and that unemployment is so low. Never mind that they dismissed those arguments when they… Read more »
Perhaps they get “hysterical” because you short change Trump. There of course is the tax cut, but also the China trade deal, the a North American trade deal, and the pulling out of the trans-Atlantic Partnership, and the Paris Climate accord. And let’s not forget the stock market, the Supreme Court, and lower Federal Courts. At last count he’s appointed 25% of the Fed Court positions. These may not be all one would want, but they are remarkably better than before with our last three presidents. As far as elimination of illegal immigration and the border wall, both proceed at… Read more »
Small point mostly off topic, Obamas origins, while Hawaiian, are, like Quantum Physics, stranger than we can imagine. That’s why he never discouraged the Kenyan theory or any other.
The US has de Facto hate-speech laws, at least in some cases. Instead of charging you with hate-speech, they charge you with a more generic crime like disturbing the peace or harassment and then add a hate-crime enhancement to the minor BS crime they can charge you with, which of course, upgrades it to a felony. If you call someone the magic word, well, you are harassing that person and since you are motivated by “hate,” you get a hate-crime “enhancement.”
All hate crimes work the way you described. They are the same as domestic violence. One must have an underlying criminal infraction. So, if two persons are having a loud argument, you have disturbing the peace—but if they are in a domestic relationship, you have “domestic violence”. No one goes to jail for saying what they think here, only for crossing the boundaries wrt to a crime that can normally be charged to anyone who keeps their mouth shut or has no demonstrable racial animosity. This is different than say in the UK and other countries. You can be charged… Read more »
That is why I said they are de facto and not de jure.
When my crazy leftist extended family talks about the wonders of sponsoring single mother immigrants from a shithole – I ask “what value will she contribute to my state, town, country, or society? Please explain, I don’t understand.”
The true lefty freaks of course. But my normie brother gets a look in his eyes like he’s considering something for the first time.
My second son was 35 at the time and the best example of human you will find, but pozzed by the general culture. I told him that importing Northeast Africans was a disaster for Americans because IQ is inherited and their IQ was 70. Their nine children all on welfare would themselves always be on welfare and my son’s children would wonder what he had been thinking. He simply could not believe what I was saying but claimed he would research it. Even Google could not steer him away from the truth and he admitted to it, unhappily, but truths… Read more »
You know, the use of the term ‘echolalic babbling’ to describe the Civic Nat talking points is the most apt phrase I have seen in awhile. I’m just going to post the definition of echolalia for anyone that doesn’t know it
meaningless repetition of another person’s spoken words as a symptom of psychiatric disorder.
Echo chamber– of an imagined Community.
We hoot and call, the response will tell us if we’re amidst sympathetic allies or surrounded by strangers.
The lonely mating call of the vanishing Normie, in other words.
Avast, the Left offers street orgies and hookups. Eeking and ooking will suffice.
Not sure if it’s senility or just doing what it takes to win over Democrats in 2020, but Bernie has really changed his tune. He used to be a closed border guy who, like the old-time union leaders, recognized that flooding the country with cheap labor would destroy the incomes of the people he was supposed to represent.
Maybe he gave up on the working guys and realized the future of socialism is over-educated, under-employed urbanites.
Or he’s just another compromised pol. His wife skated in a bank fraud case that I’m sure he’d like forgotten.
Soros told him how it was going to be…
Haven’t listened to the podcast yet, but a while back Z-Man made a good point in another one about immigration red-pilling. It went something like the normie saying wouldn’t it be great if we had universal health care? The DR response would be “yeah, that would be great, but then we would have to do something about all this immigration – we can’t have both.” The tactic being to take one of their cherished positions, and point out how that is incompatible with another cherished position. With diversity, I think one that might work would be to say sure, diversity… Read more »
“like a China Town or Little Italy, having a few little Mayberrys around isn’t such a bad thing either.”
A tweeter, “Rich”, calls that “7-11 nationalism”, as in, remember when you and your gal could go to a 7-11 for a Coke at 2 am on a Saturday night, and it wasn’t a perilous adventure at risk of life and limb.