Lost Boys

A thing you get used to on this side of the great divide is seeing people go through the transformation. It’s like seeing a blind man suddenly given the gift of sight. At secret handshake events, a topic of conversation is “how you got here.” By that it means the book, event or person that finally opened your eyes to the reality of the world. For a lot of people, the absurdity of libertarianism was the gateway. Others found an old book by a banished writer, who used to be in the mainstream of conservative thought.

Not everyone makes the trip. Some people are so immersed in the prevailing morality that they will probably never find their way out. It’s not a matter of intelligence. We have plenty of mediocre minds on this side of the divide. It is the inability to step out of the old morality, the prevailing set of rules about what defines the moral person and what describes the immoral person. It’s not fear either, although that is often a big part of it. There are just some people who see Ben Shapiro as the great barrier after which is nothingness.

This article at PJ Media is a good example. The writer is unknown to me and probably unknown to everyone. The first thing to notice about the article is the caption on the picture is a lie. It is a deliberate lie, as well. That was not “white supremacists” surrounding counter protesters.” Nothing of the sort happened. That was a flash mob the night before Charlottesville. The lie, however, says something. It shows that the people at PJ Media are deep in the weeds of the Progressive moral framework. They accept all of it.

The setup of the post strikes me as contrived, but putting that aside, his response about tribalism is the standard CivNat spasm we see in response to biological reality. He writes, “An America where every group is primarily loyal to its own country of origin or race is an America without a bright future.” No quarrel there, which is exactly why all the sub-groups of the Dissident Right exist. They have come to understand that America is being balkanized by mass immigration, the racial awareness of non-whites and identity politics.

Then there is this. “Are most people inherently tribal? Absolutely. Our natural tendency as humans is to split ourselves off in different ways.” This is true, but there are no multi-racial tribes. In fact, we don’t have multi-ethnic tribes. The various tribes in Italy were bound together by blood, just as the Irish clans were bound together by blood. That’s a perfect example of the obtuseness of people unable to shake themselves free of the prevailing moral order. They will use the most ridiculous reasons to avoid facing basic reality.

Towards the end, we see this obtuseness again when he writes, “I think “civilizational ability” is something that should be chalked up to culture, not race. The most successful nations have been those that have adopted the tenets of Western civilization.” This is right out of the CivNat playbook. It is the most absurd form of circular reasoning, but it allows the timid to avoid noticing. It’s also a basic premise of Progressivism. The West is what it is by sheer dumb luck and that’s the root of white supremacy and all the evils tied to it.

No, the reason Europe began to race ahead of the world five centuries ago is the human capital of Europe was simply better than what populated the rest of the world. Sure, geography, history and chance came together to make the humans of Europe, but that’s true everywhere. That’s called evolution. It is a basic bit of reality that human evolution is copious, recent and local. Europeans can no more be blamed for being white than Africans can be blamed for being African. It’s just a fact of the human condition.

Now to be fair, the writer avoided most of the clownish virtue signalling that defines the people calling themselves conservative these days. The emptiness of conservatism, as well as it is ineffectiveness, leaves little for the conservative writer to do other than virtue signal. This guy at least acknowledged that the swelling ranks to his right are not simply evil, but motivated by facts and reason. He disagrees with those facts, but he has no choice, as to do otherwise means packing up and making the trip to our side.

The point of this is that you can’t save everyone. In fact, if someone from our side were to sit down with John Hawkins and explain the facts of life, he would probably nod along, but then go right back to chanting the old slogans again. Those old slogans and beliefs are comforting and require no risk. Thoreau was wrong. The mass of men do not lead lives of quiet desperation. The mass of men live in mortal fear that they will one day find themselves alone, separated from the pack, facing the dangers of the world alone.

That’s frustrating for many on this side, They wonder how it is that otherwise smart people like a John Hawkins can remain trapped on the other side. The fact is, you can’t save everyone and we don’t have to save everyone. The way these things work is you change the minds that can be changed and eventually, you have enough numbers to offer comfort to those who fear separation from the herd. You offer them a new and better herd in which they can find fellowship and comfort. That’s a how a counter-cultural movement works.

238 thoughts on “Lost Boys

  1. Well this thread was one hell of a ride. it’s funny how these things can go completely off topic but that’s what makes it interesting.

    As one of those mediocre minds the crossing over to this side came many years ago. The left’s social engineering directly affected my ability to get a promotion or transfer to a bigger and better paying department.

    Lamented to a fellow co-worker all those years ago how unjust it was. He said nothing would change as long as the working slobs were being kicked around.

    Only when the white color folks started to feel the pinch would something change.

    And here we are 🙂

  2. Race is intimately intertwined with culture. It is why there’s never been a successful peaceful culture among the negroes of sub-Saharan Africa.

    The arrival of whites enabled negroes to lengthen their expected life expectancy and delivered a higher quality of life too.

    Anglo-Celts, Germans, and the Slavic whites are racial brothers and have had a more successful culture than any other.

  3. Why then are separatist groups in Africa not supported by more right wing groups in America? Many African countries are a diversity nightmare! Far too many diverse people with more genetic diversity than the racial ones that are so obvious in the US.

    Yet, the US sends aid to support despotic governments in Africa that keep the almost 50 failed states working somewhat but providing smart migrants to the west. I guess It is easier to trade with 50 failed states than maybe 250 failed or likely to fail states.

    I have agreed with Zman about his idea of separation but migration will continue unless the big countries stop propping up despots in the fake countries the Europeans set up in 1884. Attacking lefties or actual immigrants will not stop it. What will stop it is ending aid and dis-encouraging pretend democrats in Africa.

    • Absolutely right. We need to stop feeding the fire. It isn’t going to help anyone in America, just make it worse for anyone already here.

    • But this stuff will continue as long as corruption in the U.S. government serves the unquenchable corporate interests.

  4. I do wonder why the Northern Europeans, intelligent and creative as they are said to be, managed to nearly exterminate themselves in 1914 and 1939 and then, after a third of them having been rescued from Stalin and his successors, are now guaranteeing their demise as a culture by willingly importing hordes of barbarians.

    Something seems to have gotten lost in the process of aging.

    • I often think history doesn’t repeat itself but it tends to have spin offs. Ancient Greece had a legacy of genius which still resonates throughout the current West, albeit begrudgedly thanks to Progs. It could never fully unite around a concept of Hellenism bar exceptional circumstances such as Xerxes invasion. Not unlike Pre World War 1 Europe. Throughout the Medieval period there was a sense of Christendom. There were Wars but never an apocalypse such as the Great War. The military historian John Keegan refered to it as the great energies which had spread the West and expanded massivlely the knowledge of the natural World turned inward and smashed themselves in a hail of artillery fire. Which if you think about it shattered the sense of a common Civilizational bonds. Some great moral threshold had been crossed leading to the second round from 1939 to 45. The gloves had come off by 1915 and the intensity ramped up on a horrific level. Most of the Ancient Greek sources mention something similar, ancient codes of warfare conduct
      discarded changing the War into a chaotic War of attrition but I’m getting this edited through the work of Victor Davis Hanson and Donald Kagan. It’s one of the things I’ve never been able to get my head around. How Greece, Rome collapsed but China endured. Granted their maybe far more ethnic similarities between the various groups that make up China, but I don’t have a great knowledge of it. We know what happened with Byzantium. The Eastern Roman Empire and the Sassanids bled each other dry. With Modern America it seems very similar to Rome, increasing expansion of citizenship overwhelming the original core, sundering the ties, traditions and practices that had put it on a track to greatness, albeit so far without protracted Civil Wars. How did the Chinese endure, but others can’t. There’s obviously been a high level of human capital as Z said on that Pj media post ie Asians smart, Africans womp womp. However Hellenes and Romans weren’t idiots.

    • We had “help”. None of it was accidental.
      We were bamboozled, stampeded, and yeah, we fell for it. They are *good* at what they do.

    • Hmmm… just who managed to bring about two world wars that got all the white men killing each other? Who could it be that whispered in leaders’ ears, who riled intellectuals in universities, who organized insurgents to a cause, who profited from wars. (((Who?))) White people have paid a steep cost for being so trusting and gullible.

  5. Minorities become liabilities not because they are minorities, but rather due to the parasitic nature of our governmental system that enables the worst of their instincts. That’s largely why we must oppose them at every turn.

    If everyone just minded their own business and kept their hands off each other’s property, we wouldn’t be in Defcon 1. But that’s not how the world is presently constructed.

  6. Z man said a while back he established his blog because other blogs were moderating and blocking all the best comments. I think we did him proud this time around.

    • I’m grateful to be able to spout off, because I do come from a wildly different perspective, and can practice in front of a crowd.

      I’m afraid Z is right. Places like this might not exist in 5 years.

  7. The ship is definitely submerging down into the waves in real-time. Decades of centralized and entwined corruption has basically sealed our fate as a functioning society going forward.

    While I don’t subscribe to the greater tribe mentality, it’s going to become a cruel fact of life when the trains stop running on time and the grocery shelves are cleared out. Societies typically fracture down along racial lines when resources become extremely scarce. So while you might not be racially conscious at the moment, the coming conflict will categorize you regardless. Be prepared.

    With all this said, I pretty much loathe the many white fools in our recent past for debasing our constitutional birthright over the last 100 years or so. Mexicans and blacks were not responsible for this treachery, but rather Mr. and Mrs. White America. However, at the moment, it seems that these gullible and desperate minorities are being used almost exclusively as a bludgeon to prevent any type of regional dissolution from occurring.

    • “However, at the moment, it seems that these gullible and desperate minorities are being used almost exclusively as a bludgeon to prevent any type of regional dissolution from occurring.”

      The minorities certainly are gullible, but I think the desperation is all in their heads. Where else in the world can they live so well and receive so much undeserved respect? Anyway, they are activated by the globalist jews and whites who are indeed using the minorities. In the meantime, however, the minority communities become more emboldened in making unreasonable demands (like decriminalizing criminal behavior of all kinds because it means people of color go to jail… or like reparations… or white replacement) and more organized. One day the organized mass of angry low-IQ people of color will push the jews and white out of their way and commandeer the ship. (They’ll probably be backed by jewish money, though, since the jews always have all sides covered, and will continue to govern in some fashion that way. We whites need to take a page from that book.)

  8. “…The mass of men live in mortal fear that they will one day find themselves alone, separated from the pack, facing the dangers of the world alone…”

    This is the mentality of all pack animals of which man is one. This is one of the reason that men and dogs are so sympathetic.

    • Maybe that’s why I have evolved from a dog person to a cat person. Cats like to go their own way, and occasionally make a point of telling you to “f**k off”, for no good reason, just because they feel like doing so. Of course, I am fundamentally anti-social and tend to put people off their game in social situations, so what the heck?

      Dirty little secret: We are born alone and die alone. The rest of it just comes and goes. The Z blog is likely my most social thing going right now, and when the crapmasters of the interwebs pull the plug on Z, we’ll never speak to each other again. Then it’ll be on to the next thing, whatever that is. But I’m enjoying hanging around here and saying weird things in the meantime.

      • Dutch: “Dirty little secret: We are born alone and die alone.” Even dirtier secret: We are born surrounded by at least 8 people and often die in the company of loved ones.

        • Not to be all contradictory, but I have spent a lot of time in nursing homes, ERs, and so on recently, for a family member in his last days. The family kept a vigil for months, so that he was loved and not alone, 24/7. The staffs noted that it almost never happens that way for chronic patients. After the first few days the people stop coming, and don’t appear much any more until the last day or two, if that. Maybe teapartydoc can chime in on the issue.

          It is nice the dads can be in the delivery room, at the other end of life’s equation, at the beginning. I don’t count the doctors and nurses in all of this. I found most of them to be wonderful, caring people, but they are professionals, doing their job. Not the same thing.

          One more thing, if you find yourself comforting someone who is dying, do so for at least half an hour after the person is gone. Some studies have found that brain function may last for a time after the body ceases to function. The patient cannot communicate, but he may still sense your presence.

          Most of all, be the exception to the rule. We found ourselves comforting patients we didn’t know during all of this, because they had no one there for them. Not the same thing, either, but still a positive.

  9. I have followed you for years. I have marveled at your persuasion tactics. I have listened to all your podcasts. But where do we go from here. ( not a Chicago reference). I can’t listen to Rush anymore. I can’t watch Fox News. The sixty million of us who voted for Trump are quite fed up with all of it. I don’t need some one to tell me that the Washington Post is wrong. I don’t need some one to say” did you see the lies that CNN broadcast last night.” No one cares about CNN except people in the media. Us sixty million don’t care. We can’t understand why some one hasn’t said ” This is enough! We are taking over and stopping this insanity!” We have Iraq veteran snipers who could change everything over night. Where is the leader? I’m sure I’m not the only one who feels this way. We do we stop all this? I’m ready. I’m an old man. I’m willing to become connon fodder if helps just a little. Please some one stand up and get this thing going. We all know it’s going to happen. So why not now?

    • Before we head to Kansas, even Rush was talking white interests on Monday.

      Take heart, old friend. I don’t want to miss the Revolution either, but more and more heads are popping up.

    • John Brown. After you mentioned the band Chicago, you mentioned Rush. So I thought you were talking about Rush the band, whose lyricist was a Randian libertarian. Then I read Alzaebo’s comment and understood you meant Limbaugh.

  10. Re: “The point of this is that you can’t save everyone. In fact, if someone from our side were to sit down with John Hawkins and explain the facts of life, he would probably nod along, but then go right back to chanting the old slogans again. Those old slogans and beliefs are comforting and require no risk.”

    ZMan, your analysis is correct, insofar as it goes. We can know what Mr. Hawkins writes and says for attribution, but not what he thinks in the privacy of his own thoughts. He may well harbor doubts about Conservatism, Inc., but declines to state them for fear of being ostracized, losing his job, or even being sued.

    We red-pilled folks may tisk-tisk and scold our less-adventuresome and forthright counterparts, but the fact remains that there are draconian penalties and real costs attached to being a member of the alt- right movement (or whatever it is called this week) and/or challenging the established regime of political-correctness. And not everyone is in a position to pay those costs. Perhaps Hawkins is a father with young children to feed, or perhaps he has an elderly parent depending on him.

    It is asking an awful lot of an ordinary man to call upon him to face down the deep-state leviathan alone. Not everyone is a billionaire with deep pockets and the resources with which to defend himself. You might be surprised at how having some company down in the trenches fortifies a man’s courage.

    Hawkins, too, is relatively young. It takes years, decades sometimes, before someone acquires the necessary experience, knowledge and perception needed to see through the official smokescreen and begin to make sense of reality. Some men acquire the ability more quickly than other men. Every man is unique and has his own path to follow.

    Rather than ridicule those who lack the courage or other means to speak their minds, wouldn’t it be a better idea to leave the door open for them somehow? After all, you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. Not that Hawkins, et al. are in any way “flies”… just a figure of speech. ; )

    • GeorgiaBoy: “It takes years, decades sometimes, before someone acquires the necessary experience, knowledge and perception needed to see through the official smokescreen and begin to make sense of reality.” Bullshit, most of us got the gist when we were in junior high. Your whole comment reads like a Hallmark card.

      • Ouch. JoeJah’s saying, “don’t punch right.”

        We might need those guys before the Left lures them away with nubile promises.

        Southron gallantry, they know what damfool Yankees are like.

        • Alzaebo, I am ok with normies being naive, but GeorgiaBoy was giving professional political writers a pass for being naive. Journalists/pundits are savvy and jaded as hell. No way I’m letting that kind of Pollyanna BS slide.

      • If you’re going to insult people, why don’t you work on doing a better job of it? All you’ve done is show the world what an ass and total jerk you really are. And who do you think you’re kidding about that room temperature IQ of yours?

        • Oh sh*t. I do believe this is a fine time to visit Shreveport, way up north. You know, Yankee territory.

  11. Zman: “…it allows the timid to avoid noticing.” Really good. Z or someone, please refine that into a maxim.

  12. I don’t think it’s circular to say it’s culture not race. I don’t agree, but it isn’t circular.

    Think of it this way: For the sake of argument lets stipulate that all human populations everywhere have exactly the same potential. What would human history look like given this? Well we can be pretty sure what it would not look like, which is all peoples everywhere advancing in lockstep at the same rate! History is chaotic — even given equal potential, geographical and historical accidents would result in people in some parts of the world getting a jump on those in others, and those initial advantages would compound, so that some groups would race ahead while others lagged behind. Which is pretty much what we see, isn’t it?

    For the record, I do believe that race matters, and that people from some parts of the world are smarter and more capable than those from others. I just don’t think you can prove this by pointing to differences in civilizational achievement, since such differences would exist even if there were no differences in potential.

    There are better arguments to be made.

      • The industrial revolution started in England but was spread to France and Germany where they learned and improved it.

      • better arguments:
        “HBD or no, these blacks/ browns are coming to really *hate* us, so we must rally to defend ourselves and loved ones, and make the gov’t follow, or get the hell out of the way!”

      • LineInTheSand — For example, even when they are living in the same country as whites, even when their parents are making the same money, when they are going to the same schools, blacks still can’t seem to do as well as whites (or Asians) on any sort of standardized test, or really find much success in any field outside of sports and entertainment. This is much more of an apples-to-apples comparison, and carries a lot more weight than comparing the performance of disease ridden Africa and temperate Europe.

        Actually, I think it’s the only good argument! If, as liberals had expected, blacks had quickly caught up to whites after the success of the civil rights movement, wouldn’t that kind of prove that the failure of blacks in Africa was due to some combination of environmental and cultural factors, rather than genetics?

  13. I think there is a distinction between libertarianism, as the author defined it, and Ron Paulism. Ron Paul was very successful in the nought decade(2000s) with a certain brand of paleo libertarianism that addressed the peculiar excesses of that decade in a manner that cloaked white interests. In particular, I refer to the absurd neocon overseas adventures, the usual unfair disproportionate taxation of whites, and problems of freedom of association related to classical issues of the American southeast(race). This is exemplified by the pro confederate writings of Paul unearthed toward the end of that decade.

    The ideology was useful in that it cloaked white interests in a universal framework, much the way the group evolutionary strategies defined in Culture of Critique were used by those groups, not to bring up the evil one, but it is a useful framework. With a Jewish goddess Ayn Rand as your spiritual leader—great politics!

    The “pundit libertarians”, the useful idiots of the movement, never really understood the subtext of Ron paulism, and absent his leadership fell off into the egg head debates about drawing circles around property which Z has mocked, which also failed to get any popular traction and were easily supplanted by trumpism.

    I see this as analogous to the USSR, when after the original Bolshevism which veiled the interests of a particular subgroup, into the Stalinist period, the leadership reverted to Marxist eggheads who actually believed all this malarkey and never actually grasped the original purpose of Bolshevism.

    The smarter set of libertarians make the leap to the dissident right because they finally come to the realization that what they liked about Paul was always implicit white interests. The others either never got it or have such profound moral barriers against white identitarianism that they can never bring themselves to say it.

  14. Hawkins missed the essence:

    “When you wish that people could be colorblind, you are like a communist who wishes that a person would work as hard for a collective as he would work for his family. Just like it is contrary to human nature to expect communism to work, it is contrary to human nature to expect colorblindness, especially from non-whites. You are like a person who opposes gravity for ethical reasons.”

    • LineIn: “Hawkins missed the essence.” Like Z said, timid avoidance. I like Hawkins, but there’s really no excuse for political writers to “miss” anything. They spend all their time thinking about society and politics. I’ve barely paid attention and I’ve figured it out. If it hadn’t dawned on you from a very early age that humans are all about comparison…ALL the time in EVERY situation, then you’re a fool or a fake. Comparison & resentment. It’s not complicated.

  15. You have to understand the “editorial viewpoint” at PJM. I discovered this because I used to visit Instapundit regularly. Every so often I would bookmark a post linking to a story that the MSM had not covered as a reference for further investigation/follow-up. Then I noticed that some of these links/stories were being deleted. In each case of a deleted link/story, the facts ended up being the opposite of the initial PJM preferred propaganda narrative.

  16. These are bubble people. They are socially and economically isolated from the c**p they promote. They’re like “Meathead” (Rob Reiner) here in CA, He promotes all sorts of insane legislation and attacks conservatives for being racist, etc. Yet lives in a gated community in Malibu in a house with a large wall and gate. Meathead doesn’t want reality intruding upon his spotless life and mind.

    • Bono of U2 is selling *five* very large Malibu properties. Liberalism pays!

      Dammit, I used to drive by Johnny Carson’s modest bungalow at Malibu. (You could see it from Highway 1.)
      He had three Corvettes parked there- one red, one white, one blue.

      • Bono is without a doubt one of the most hypocritical repulsive excuses for a human being. Beside that cunt Geldof. Boner spends most of his time flitting between houses on numerous continents to avoid any defined residency and therefore taxation. There’s been an exemption on taxable income in Ireland based on supposed artistic or cultural contributions. There was a slight increase in the rate based on earnings in about 07, in and around the height of the Make Poverty History circle jerk, when Boner had been sermonising to the Irish public about how an increase in income tax should be earmarked for more aid for Africans. Incidently that direct foreign aid largely paid for Uganda’s purchase of Suhkoi strike aircraft, despite having a barely functioning airfields so they could larp at Top Gun. U2 promptly moved their business dealings out of the country to Holland to a more favourable rate. Omerta from them subsequently about the move. Thats the thing with ghetto Dindus. They’re low iq crass materialistic homo erectus, but there’s a particular honesty about their idiocy. Geldof’s own daughter dies with a syringe in her arm in a pool of her own waste yet he feels the need to berate those Brexiteer bigoted monsters. I don’t have strong enough insults, I’d love some suggestions.

  17. Intelligent guys like Richard Dawkins do not join your side, Mr. Z cause your side offers nothing other than sick RAHOWA fantasies, your side exists purely as a foil to BLM and La Raza type minority racists. Really other than RACE! RACE! RACE! what ideas does the Dissident Right bring? What is the Dissident Right position on the trade deficit? sky high college and medical costs? Rampant corporate consolidation leading to enormous concentration of power and influence in the hands of a few globalist fucks? IP Trolling? The Drug War? GWOT? Medicare? Social Media Censorship?

    The Normies want to hear sensible solutions to these issues from the DIssident Right before they join your side not RACE! RACE! RACE! 24×7.

    • Maybe if the normies would just acknowledge race the dissidents could dial it back a bit, but I doubt it.
      In case you have been asleep for awhile everything else by the left has been pretty much white hatred.

    • You raise some important political issues. Unfortunately, most non-whites will never grapple with the issues you enumerate. For the most part, they just want to take from the Other.

      One reason for whites to be tribal is so that we can start discussing legitimate issues again. If you every want a worthwhile debate about taxation or health care, you must establish a majority white country.

    • Dawkins is a ass. He goes out of his way to piss people off. Besides he hates Christians to the point he openly insults them. Why that bugger doesn’t toddle off to Algeria or Pakistan is beyond me.

      Despite being trollish you bring up valid points. For the most part the alt-right is a one trick pony. I’ve never seen their serious thinkers like Sailer ever espouse anything remotely to a platform that is attractive to normies. I don’t think they know how to talk to normies.

      Take the opioid epidemic. They don’t care if a million people die. They don’t care that Sackler pharma is dumping Oxy across the rust belt and other areas. They don’t care that China is dumping Fentenaly into the U.S. along with a host of other synthetic opioids. Again this shows the libertarian origin of most of it’s supporters.

      The alt-right either makes itself relevant to mainstream conservative Americans or it will remain a dumpster fire.

      • “Dumpster fire”- great line! Harsh but true.

        I think the marketing message begins with what Chaotic N. said below:
        “they finally come to the realization that what they liked about Paul was always implicit white interests.”

        I’m hearing more and more voices broach the forbidden words on radio.
        Radio has a far larger unified audience than most cable shows.

        “Its OK to be white” will probably resemble the “Rush is Right” bumper stickers, back when Rush was an unknown name in a dying niche.

    • Yours, Ron Paul, Antal Fekete, FoFoA, etc. have much to say on those other issues. Let Zman etc. concentrate on their niche, and be open to
      stuff from those I just listed.
      Heretofore, this culture/ ethnicity stuff had been so neglected.

    • “White people, we need an honest discussion about race… and when you open your fat, stupid mouths, we’ll talk about capital gains and school funding.”

    • There’s no agreement on these “issues” on the dissident right, nor should there be. They are a distraction. They are blue pill.

      There’s no point in engaging in penny-ante “issues” in a government that is actively engaged in your replacement or destruction. The overriding “issue” is the national question. This is certainly a reason to dislike democracy, but democracy is what we have.

      Let me put it this way. South Africa has already largely removed the protection of the law from its Afrikaners, and they are suffering hugely because of that. Now it is about to embark on a more active policy of ethnic cleansing or even genocide of the Afrikaners, which will naturally lead to similarly eliminating the remainder of its whites. (Not to mention economic collapse.) This has been clear to everyone on the dissident right for years now, because we are evil noticers/racists. Your “issues” are the equivalent of asking, hey English-speaking whites, what about the South African national debt? What about college costs? What are your “positions” on “the issues”?

  18. I came here from PJM.
    Dreadful. I can’t bear to read it anymore.

    (I read the comments this time though- and even civnats like James Woods are Noticing.)

  19. Like minorities, the virtue signallers define themselves relative to white majority.

    Can’t any of these people do something on their own, and just leave me be?

    (“Who will rid me of these meddlesome preists?”- Saml Adams and some other old white guy)

  20. Zman kicking libertarians has always irked me, but now I get it, I *feel* it.

    He’s kicking the Blank Slate.
    Libertarianism is the natural stance of White culture before the meddlers started rewriting our moral code.

    The terms “con”, “lib”, “tarian” all meant something very different before the Diversity’s blank slate rolled in.

    • You’re not talking about us Rothbardians. Are you? 🙂 We are the based libertarians as opposed to Vichy cosmotarians.

      • Rothbardians saw through the MIC scam before anyone, but a libertatian in a non-white country must refine his doctrine behind high walls topped with broken glass.

  21. Just to add some spice to the stew, PJ Media is run by a Jewish screenwriter who adores his son’s homosexual marriage. To be fair, he was strongly opposed to Never Trump.

    • I believe the original founders of PJM were Aubrey Chernick, Roger L. Simon and Charles (LGF) Johnson.

      • Simon, Radosh, Ledeen, (and Horowitz) ’bout lost their minds when Diana West exposed FDR as Stalin’s stooge, and poor Charles simply lost his mind.

        LittleGreenFootballs used to be exquisite, exposing Palestinian fraudery.
        I think the serious squeeze was put on him after he exposed Dan Rather- the commie media really, really didn’t want their tricks to come to light. Media exposure is what he did best, and all his sqwauking about Mellon-Scafe Christian militias and Savior Obama couldn’t save him.

        • Something must have happened to Johnson, the way it all went down. Den Beste, too, but it is not far-fetched to assume that he may have had said his piece and it was time to move on. Perhaps the health thing just took him out before the rest of us were on to it.

          • Steve Den Beste said it was simply too exhausting to keep replying to the comments, as he felt compelled to do.
            Set sail on the U.S.S. Clueless!

    • Not sure if joking…..
      I mean,I hope you are.
      Because compared to what I could post about other groups misbehaving that is laughable.

      • Two white guys in their boxers, laughing and splashing in a fountain?

        Yep, the End has come. The barbarians are in the gates. No way we’re gonna survive this.

    • Oh my, terrible those young Englishmen playing in the water fountain. Perhaps the African migrants could teach them some manners. Suggested Art of Migrating syllabus:
      * Milking the host country’s social services for maximum money and benefits.
      * Not assimilating — keep your own culture and language by living in enclaves and displaying hostility toward the natives who pay for you.
      * Not working — do not gain any skills or contribute to the host society.
      * Knives, guns, bats, bombs or cars — choosing the right weapon for the right occasion.
      * Marry a white mudshark from the host country and have 5 or more children. Outbreed the natives!
      * If the white women won’t date you, take them by force — rape them and tear the host country’s social fabric with violent attacks.
      * Join forces with the native Leftists to destroy host country’s traditions, including replacement of churches with mosques, in the name of democracy, human rights and advancement.
      * And much more!

  22. I don’t really have a herd to join, and am quite used to being alone in my thinking. In fact, this is one of the few places where I can test my thoughts out and get a useful, meaningful response to it, good or bad. Except for here, there isn’t much real discussion any more, it is simply selling a position and shaming those who disagree.

    I assume protective coloration most of the time, and try to keep it from becoming too immersed in my thinking.

    I am a big believer in the fates, and the old noir stories and movies are right up my alley, as they combine the consequences of decisions at the micro level with the inevitability of fate in the macro.

    I have given up the idea of being a meaningful part of any movement to change things in the right direction. I will support it when I can, but I feel instead like a witness to history, and I am getting the privilege of watching the greatest, most horrific folly of human history, playing out right on my doorstep. Must be my belief in the fates.

    • Under rated point buried in there: the only real discussion going on anywhere in America is between factions of the right

    • Absolutely. We’re the Witnesses, as Severian demonstrates above.

      A secret belief defines and sustains groups such as Jewish Marranos, or Druze, or Zoroastrian Persians.

      Someday will we be that crazy remnant that believes it’s ancestors walked on the Moon?

      • I was on a nighttime walk just yesterday, looking up at the half moon on a clear evening, getting chills at the idea that people walked on that thing and made it back. At the rate things are going, it will be a hundred years, if ever, that we go back.

        I remember the night, getting up to see the moonwalk. Awesome memories.

        • We saw it. Actually saw it happen.
          The First Step.

          We are the most blessed of what will someday be prehistoric, lost in the mists of time. Someday, when forests on the moon cast their green light on the Earth.

          Who discovered fire? Who invented the wheel?
          What were their names?

    • Re “The greatest, most horrific folly of human history”.

      I try to be optimistic. Disaster beckons; I get that. My hope is that a vigorous remnant survives, with enough of the ecosystem intact, so that – say in a few hundred years – some new and better-grounded variety of peoples emerge and learn from our mistakes, using their wits to make do on a mined-out yet still verdant planet. Native genius will again have elbow room, and the race will heal.

      It would be a shame if this remnant exhibited ‘browning’, with its corresponding loss of those crucial IQ points valued here at the Z blog; it would mean putting off a Mars expedition by many centuries, the revival of weird foods, the decline of music and taste in literature, strange atavistic religious customs, no air-conditioning, etc.

      A 100,000 year-old species dropping back to its 97,000 year level; its core evolutionary wiring intact and presented again with those challenges for which the wiring developed.

      So cheer up!

      • Pimpkin’s Nephew, I can’t say I am morose about the future, more resigned to it. Interested to see how it plays out. Looking forward to bearing witness to what happens. Fate and destiny are peculiar things. You get to wiggle around in your own space, making decisions and doing things that lessen the likelihood of certain personal outcomes, and increasing the probability of others. But you are still subject to fate, which is bigger than anything you can do or make happen on your own.

        I live on two hilltops, one close in to civilization, and thereby making available to me, on my doorstep, all the wondrous and horrible things that humans have to offer. The second is far away from it all, with clear skies, where I own all the stars at night, my own deep, cold water source, and lots of space. Which will ultimately be my home? Will I be buried on one of those hilltops? Or will I simply disappear one day? And the fate of most or all of us? The answers will come clear over time. I am curious what they will be. I think I am OK, but thanks for trying to look out for me.

  23. “The most successful nations have been those that have adopted the tenets of Western civilization” is a very interesting and opaque statement. He’s hedging his bets. Depending on what he really means by “tenets”, he could either be exactly right or catastrophically wrong.

    If “tenets” means “Christianity and hierarchical government”, then it’s true; even non-white nations that adopt them do better than non-white nations that don’t. But what he probably, actually means, like any good progressive moralist, is “liberal democracy” – and as we all know, any nation that adopts liberal democracy is poised for suicide, not success.

      • “Rule of law” does not exist. “Free-enterprise” and “property rights” are the same thing. Where did property rights come from? Do you think they just materialized out of thin air? What prevents me from defecting and simply taking your property?

        • Rule of Law exists, and is well-defined.

          I live on a piece of land that, 250 years ago, was hunted and fished by the Iroquois. My right to this property derives from those contractual arrangements developed by law, and ensured by the rule of law, preceding my purchase of this property.

          Before that – raw conquest. No one who spends ten minutes thinking through the legal basis of any society can avoid that brute fact about the nature of human organization. The ‘rule of law’ isn’t the ‘rule of nature’ – it’s the domestication of conquest into peaceful and legal transference of property among people of the same ‘tribe’.

          What prevents you from defecting (?) and simply taking my property is ‘the rule of law’. That is, unless you are a conqueror. Then the rules get re-written.

      • Hong Kong is small and homogenous.
        Singapore too- 75% Chinese, 15% Malay, 7% Indian: all Asian.

  24. “There’s a lot to unpack there” — oh shut up. This guy is an absolute tard. I don’t know what’s worse though, him or Andrew (((STERN))) in the comments over there.

    Keep fighting the good fight Zman.

    • Never trust anyone who says “unpack”, “drill down”, “at the end of the day” or “badass woman”.

  25. It’s all great to claim you have an open mind and are willing to digest big new ideas. It’s a whole lot harder to actually walk back on stuff you have earnestly believed for decades. It must feel like betraying past self.

    Most people can only do it gradually if at all. Denial is far more comfortable.

    • As someone who used to be blue pill ‘conservative’, Im more wondering how far my views will go lol I think the ones who used to buy into all the civnat stuff might end up the more extreme. B/c we have sort of a ‘woman scorned’ sense of having been betrayed by the ppl and ideas we used to believe in. Those that saw through it all along might be more ‘well, they re cons but what do you expect from cons’??

      I bet Genghis Khan was a really idealistic blue pill guy in his early youth lol

      • I think of Mosses as a guy who started true blue living in comfortable slavery. Even after God started talking to him, he hadn’t really swallowed the red pill.

        Only after dragging all the other fat, lazy, comfortable slaves out into the wilderness and listening to them bitch and moan for years was he really red-pilled. That’s when he and God decided to keep them in the desert for a couple of generations – until all the blue-pillers had dies off.

        • The blue pill to red pill club got two very unexpected members this week, Moses and Genghis Khan lol

        • I think of Set-Moses (“Child-of-Set”) as a Hyksos Egyptian priest whose faction lost their bureaucratic war with the Isis faction.

          So badly, they had grab their clans and flee, like Abraham, to the wastes, to their Mittani relatives.

          So badly, the very name of Set was banned by Egypt; the refugees had to use the unspeakable sign, YHWH, of the volcano god as a sigil. That volcano was a column of smoke by day, a pillar of fire by night.

          Of course Moses’ descendants rewrote the story. Too many wanted to go back to the civilized world, the old traditions.

          They couldn’t, because their monotheism- Amen Ra ascendent- had torn down the temples of those old traditions and reduced Egypt to ruinous civil war.

          Much later, one of them built a First Temple to Amen Ra in the old Canaanite lands of what once was Old Babylon. It used the traditional floor plan and design.

          I forget his Egyptian name, but we call him Solomon.
          The story changes, and is changed again.

          • I think Z should interview you on the various threads of human religion, legend and superstition. I would love to see all the bits and pieces of what you know, put together into a big picture.

          • May the God and all the gods bless you for that. I’m an ignorant fool, but hoping to someday attract quality help from minds far better than me. Minds like the Zman and his worthies.

            I’m a shambling bum who stumbled across Pandora’s box.

            Practical, physical application is what I seek, but I’m too far behind to offer anything of real value right now.

            Plus, I don’t want to interfere with what the Zman is trying to do here. I hope to eventually contribute.

            I’m at a critical juncture, after years of difficult perserverance- I can’t express how much your kind thought means to yours truly.

            Thanks for letting me bleed all over Z’s page. And thanks much to the Z crowd, ye rowdy hellions!

          • Oops, PS: my apologies to Drake, I agree with his moral lesson, and Simba’s blue-pilled Ghengis too! I just go off on these tangents.

  26. The old cliche goes “nothing succeeds like success,” and it’s true. The Left wins in the present, I’m coming to believe, almost entirely because they’ve won in the past. I certainly don’t respect the “respectable Right,” but I understand them, as I’ve been in a similar situation — when I was professing, even a hint of heresy would’ve cost me everything. I would’ve lost my job — I’d never work in education again, at any level — and former “friends” would’ve cut me in the streets. I’m only exaggerating a little when I say we probably would’ve had to move. That’s not a burden a lot of us can bear (and I certainly didn’t go out in a blaze of glory).

    Imagine if “we” had even half that power. We wouldn’t often use it (not because we’re such great guys, but because we have lives outside of politics), but we’d be safe knowing we had it. Unfortunately, at this point, Leftism’s successes have set them up to run the table. They could fire me for my politics, and a Leftist judge (that is to say, any judge within 100 miles of that jurisdiction) would toss my lawsuit out because reasons. If one of us fired one of them for their politics, the judge would award them our house, car, dog, and wife.

    Which is why I believe political violence is inevitable, as much as I deplore it. The only thing that succeeds is success, and when all reasonable, polite, legal routes to success are closed…. (at which point the PJ Media people all start writing articles about how they were with us all along, but the Truth and Reconciliation Committee will….)

    • The Left is also engaged. They know what they are fighting for, which is space at the huge public trough, where you are fed according to your wants, not your contributions. To take it further, the hissy fits we call virtue signaling serve to enlarge the size and frequency of the feedings for the one throwing the fit. Never mind the fact that, one day, the farmer is going to get tired of the freeloading and the hissy fits, and not refill the trough with swill (the “Venezuela outcome”). I don’t think it is any more complex than that.

  27. 1. “The most successful nations have been those that have adopted the tenets of Western civilization. Even the most prosperous Asian nations like Japan and South Korea were heavily influenced by Western culture. Additionally, there are also poor white nations like Armenia, Moldovia, and Ukraine. If Western culture had developed in Africa while Europeans still embraced the sort of backward tyrannies you see in Africa and South America, chances are America would be one of the sh*thole countries and they’d be the prosperous ones today.” It’s not the poverty, it’s the poz! There can be some human dignity even in poverty. Prosperity isn’t the be-all, end-all of a country.
    2. After reading this blog since almost its beginning, I still don’t understand what the dissident right would do if they could define the prevailing orthodoxy. What actions would be taken, what consequences would ensue? Most people do have a moral framework, not necessarily progressive or that of Conservative, Inc., which has to be accomodated. People outside the moral framework of progressivism/conservatism are already beyond the bounds and have no place to go. It isn’t herd mentality or cowardice that’s holding them back.
    3. Is the fundamental question one of honesty, i. e., whether one would truly prefer living as a minority in a majority POC society? Would it really make no difference?

  28. Evolution has endowed us with a tenacity of thought born of brain wiring that occurs during our early formative years. This is why most people are resistant to change in their core beliefs in later life. One of the few things that can alter this bias is confrontation with reality involving existential threat, e.g. getting the shit scared out of you. Unfortunately, our current environment offers little opportunity for this to occur.

    • I notice that older Buddhists ‘find’ Buddhism, Jews ‘find’ Judaism, Christians ‘find’ Christ, etc.
      Those early grooves are well worn.

      Right now, old Dad is out in the back yard, trying to find the barn animals. It’s feeding time in 1934.

      • Now, that was a light-hearted example, albight sadly true. People rediscover their roots and go back to the faith.

        Richard Dawkin’s dad must’ve been the High Church of the Snarling Labourite.

        • I found you out there, Alzaebo–and by the way, I’m not “returning” to anything; I would have had to leave, first. Now eat your alfalfa!

          • “So be nice, you pagan twits.”
            So. Good.

            And this hay, it’s just the best.
            Really! Care to try some?

  29. the reason Europe began to race ahead of the world five centuries ago is the human capital of Europe was simply better than what populated the rest of the world.

    Had nothing, NOTHING, to do with Catholicism (or Christianity), eh?

    • Maybe with Christianity getting out of the science labs? That could potentially explain some I think

      • Maybe you should read actual history, not the BS you got in “school.”

        Come back when you’re ready to ‘splain who was the single most influential pioneer of biology, or astronomy, or physics, or medicine.

        Hint: they are all Catholics.

        Ignorant twit.

        • Who fucked your wife last night??

          ” single most influential pioneer of biology, or astronomy, or physics, or medicine.

          Hint: they are all Catholics.”

          Really? That would be an interesting surprise to Newton, Darwin, Alexander Fleming or Thyco Brahe and later Einstein, Bohr and many others.

          There is no ‘single most influential’ pioneer. I figure you had Galilei and probably some others in mind. Guess what, you off the bat offensive [never mind], Galilei needed the church out of his way.

          • The conventional Galileo story has been called into serious doubt, and not even that recently. While it’s true that he was persecuted by the church, it was quite likely NOT due to his scientific pursuits, but rather a highly abrasive personality and belligerent posture toward the church and its teachings.

            The history of the Catholic church is often misrepresented this way, which is no surprise once you realize that our current rulers and history-writers are Protestant offshoots.

          • That’s possible. Im simply saying science and religion are two very different endeavors. That does not mean they have to be in each others way, but historically they often have been.

          • It’s mostly a lie; Christianity was very rarely “in science’s way”. The Royal Society was founded by Robert Boyle, a noted and devout Anglican.

            Certainly, the Catholic church did not stunt science in the middle ages anywhere near as much as Progressivism stunts science today. Geocentrism is the lynchpin of that particular silly anti-Christian argument, and there’s a lot of evidence that it would have gone away on its own – but even if it hadn’t, astronomy and cosmology haven’t really produced that much of genuine value yet compared to, say, chemistry and genetics.

            Science and engineering require social cooperation – civic virtue. That is what religion provides. It does not produce technology directly, but it does produce the human capital and institutions necessary for invention and large-scale production to occur. That religion doesn’t necessarily have to be Christianity, but few if any other religions have the same track record. Paganism may have worked for the Greeks, but it’s likely they had 2-3 standard deviations of IQ higher than modern Europeans.

          • Agree, it built the institutions, the medieval universities and precious Irish (non-Catholic) cloisters that preserved the libraries being burned by Arabs.

            But what about Islamic university?

            The Arab Conquest wasn’t Arab- it was Persian. An alternative Persian form of Christianity, like Greek Byzantium.

            Their Arab vassal mercenaries stole the victory, then began rewriting the history.

            Choestes’ armies successfully reached Egypt. He was Persian, but a convert to Ebionite faith of “Judaic Jesus” (non Trinitarian, like the Nestorian Syrian bishops)- the Prophet, the Mohammed, was Jesus. They didn’t see him as a Son of the Holy Ghost, an avatar, the deity incarnate. (The Nicean council was called to settle state doctrine as to divine or prophet.)

            The Rashidun, the Righteous Caliphs, were generals of Arab vassal armies. They murdered Choestes, beginning dynastic battles that led to their rapid succession and the Shia-Sunni split.
            The hadiths followed, expanding the myth of the Arab Mohammed, until being finalized some centuries later.

            (They confused Jesus with the Old Testament general Joshua, rejecting His reformist version for a militant one.

            This happened as the original Aramaic tracts became a basis for written Arabic, as Bedouins had no writing, no alphabet.)

            This was the great war that exhausted the two empires, and gave the Bedouin parasites their chance.

          • Like Romans and Goths, had Persia not hired foreign mercenaries, we might’ve had 3 great houses of Christianity, and all the eventual good that implies.

          • Lance, the Church may have had oodles of motives for doing him that way.
            The fact remains, that Galilei needed the church OUT of his way.
            Had the Church c. 1850 wielded the power it wielded c. 1615, Darwin may well have decided that it was prudent for him to lay low, to stay a “lost boy”.

            Simba was replying to dad29’s pitch, about the Church deserving so much credit for Europe’s progress.

          • And the current pope of the Catholic Church is an ignorant Argentinian communist who enjoys kissing the feet of muslims while Christians throughout the Middle East are being massacred. He neither defends Christians nor his own Church. Hopefully, he will end up in that place he claims doesn’t exist.

          • Catholic Europe developed water- and wind-mills, the three-field agriculture system, selective plant-breeding, chimneys, eyeglasses, and saddles for horses, enabling heavy cavalry. The Church rejected chattel slavery. Catholics invented musical notation, used polyphony first, invented universities, used dissection as a scientific tool. Copernicus was educated at a Catholic university, as was Grosseteste, Bacon, Ockham, d’Oresme, Newton, Malpighi, …..

            Whitehead recognized that Christian theology was essential to the rise of science……

            Kepler, Mendel, Boyle….

            And of course, Christian Europe took gunpowder and used it for cannons and guns. So be nice, you pagan twits.

          • That IS an impressive list, considering that we whites used to hang mutilated corpses of girls by their hair, in the trees, as sacrifices to the Old Ones.

            Before Christianity came along, that is.
            Now, ’bout them Blood Eagles…

          • Newton, perhaps the greatest mind of the last 500 years, was a devout Christian, but not a Catholic.

          • The occult is an alternative form of science, as are the Eastern arts, as were the masoretic masons, etc etc.

            Learn to translate, smart people.
            Clues are everywhere, people really are trying their best.

            PS- pedants have ruined, fucking ruined this thread. Every public meeting gets some asshole who jumps up and starts shouting who-knows-what.

        • Come back when you’re ready to ‘splain who was the single most influential pioneer of biology, or astronomy, or physics, or medicine.

          You mean the ancient Greeks? BTW insulting people won’t win them over to your thinking.

        • And, Christian scholars resurrected history.
          In Egypt, in Cambodia, in Belize, in India- they had even forgotten Ashoka in India, the mighty king who spread Buddhism across half the world. German Catholics found him again.

          Blaming white guys has great precedent.
          The great Papist ‘crimes’ were greatly exagerrated or brought in by someone else.

          Witch burning: Pagans, millenia earlier
          Inquisition: Muslims, 300 years earlier
          Crusades: Muslims, 400 years earlier

      • The paradigmatic shift brought about by Christianity in general and the church of Rome in particular made what we think of as science possible.

        Stop drinking the anti-Christian kool-aid.

        • The kind of anti-factual, dogmatic thinking that is problematic in science. Christianity helped science primarily by getting out the science labs. Science is about different realms than religion. You can be Christian and a scientist. But they compliment, not buttress, each other at best.

          • What you know ain’t so. Much of the current Narrative suffers from a lack of contact with historical, verifiable fact.

            If you are of the sort to un-learn received propaganda, you have several options, of which I will list only two.

            The most readable is likely Hannam’s “The Genesis of Science: How the Christian Middle Ages Launched the Scientific Revolution.” Well written and entertaining, but a bit Roman-triumphalist, it is the easiest way to red pill yourself on the topic.

            Grant’s “The Foundations of Modern Science in the Middle Ages: Their Religious, Institutional and Intellectual Contexts” plows similar ground, albeit in somewhat more detail, with less Roman cheer leading, but more of a dry & academic read.

            FTR, I have never been a member of the church of Rome. But give the Devil his due: modern science would not exist without the church of Rome & its adherents–especially the church fathers & theologians who developed the new paradigm of knowable and immutable laws of nature.


            “…whoever then has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start that he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom.”
            —-Thomas Bradwardine (c1300-1349, Archbishop of Canterbury and one of the Oxford Calculators)

          • Maybe, it is actually possible that the church has been accused of being more detrimental to science than was the actual case. We know that Christianity has been attacked by ppl who it later turned out had ulterior (cultural Marxist, postmodernist etc) motives. And I am not an expert on either Christianity or the history of science. I practice science, I have strong views on what ‘constitutes science’. But I dont know the exact role of the church in the development of science from the Italian renaissance forward. I concede ‘reasonable doubt’ on the church’s ‘guilt’ in retarding science thus.

          • So reassuring to enjoy the unity of those of us “on this side of the great divide”.

            Yeah, we’ll be just fine. Unlike the Enemy, we aren’t motivated by petty hatreds.

          • I wonder what sort of point you think you’re proving here. Plenty of would-be inventors come up with fantasy inventions involving technology that doesn’t exist. If mankind comes up with an anti-gravity mechanism in the year 2300, does every crank today designing levitating sweatpants get credit for being a genius before his time?

            The people who push us into the future (technology-wise) are the people who make scientific and technical breakthroughs that can actually be IMPLEMENTED by their peers. These “pre-invention inventions” are almost never used in the design of the genuine article, even as inspiration, because everybody’s already forgotten about them until the gamma lunatics start shouting “HAH! You didn’t really invent that, I found an ancient historical blueprint with vague similarities to what you designed!”

            In any case, you’re still making the standard progressive error of conflating social capital with technological progress. If we start running out of people who can maintain indoor plumbing because economic cooperation has given way to tribal warfare, you can forget about your flying cars.

          • The point I’m trying to make is that science existed before the Roman Catholic Church. If you find that statement threatening perhaps you should return to Free Republic, where they ban every conservative who doesn’t conform to Church doctrine.

          • The point you’re trying to make is wrong, and you’re making it poorly. You’re using “science” as a stand-in for “technological progress”, and they are not the same thing. The Scientific Method is a modern invention, not really taking root until Descartes and Newton. Before that, all “science” was inductive, which led to thousands of years of idiotic ideas like phlogiston and trepanation.

            You obviously don’t know anything about science other than the usual progressive-propaganda talking points, and should really stop posting about it as if you do.

          • Eratosthenes of Cyrene, born around 276 BC, accurately measured the circumference of the world. Sounds like science to me.

          • “Eratosthenes of Cyrene, born around 276 BC, accurately measured the circumference of the world. Sounds like science to me.”

            To make it complete science he should have tested it to verify his theory. But he couldnt. He was somewhat in a situation comparable to the current one with string theory. But, it was pretty good work and maybe science, one could split hairs over that, or not 🙂

          • “I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken.”

            Oliver Cromwell, 1650

          • Lance_E, I largely agree w your comments on the history of science. I think it began largely around the time of Galilei etc, certainly w the scientific method.

            One of my old tracking books about animal tracks in Africa called tracking ‘the oldest science’. A little tongue-in-cheek I think there is some merit in that.

          • “I’m not even a Christian, I’m just someone who studies history. You, apparently, are not.”

            Well I know more about science than I do about history, no question there.

          • you’re ignorant of how science and the scientific method arose in Europe. instead of name calling why not take this opportunity to learn what you’re talking about?

          • WTF, dudes? Current Christianity sprang forth from Zeus’s forehead, fully formed?

            Please don’t turn turn this place into PJM.

            (For goodness’ sakes, this was the original argument against Darwin.
            Not how things began, but whether they had changed over time.)

          • Fanatical literal bible thumpers?

            Maybe I missed something in skimming through this tiresome thread, but I haven’t noticed anyone supporting their claims with chapter and verse quotations from the Holy Texts, which is what ”fanatical literal bible thumpers” do.

            And which Catholics never do. But whatever; let the half-literate mud-wrestling continue until somebody gets tired or gets called home to dinner.

          • ”fanatical literal bible thumpers” was an ill-advised phrase.
            But, recall, dad29 started this dustup with a dig at an “Ignorant twit”.

          • I didn’t miss the underlying motivation- a strident demand that “it All Starts and Ends With Christianity!”

            Credit where credit is due, and leave it there, please.

          • It’s hilarious that people are downvoting Lance_E’s comment.

            They obviously know nothing about how technological progress actually occurs.

            I’ve met more than my fair share of people who walk around spouting all sorts of “great ideas” – but couldn’t implement the design of a paperclip into an actual physical object.

            Here’s a clue – if the best you can do is write down the crazy ideas in your head on a piece of paper – but you’re not able to turn that “invention” into something REAL here in the physical world – you didn’t do shit.

            The world doesn’t advance on fantastical ideas on paper – it advances by people who actually IMPLEMENT their ideas and make them real.

          • “Here’s a clue – if the best you can do is write down the crazy ideas in your head on a piece of paper – but you’re not able to turn that “invention” into something REAL here in the physical world – you didn’t do shit.”

            COMPLETELY incorrect! What you describe, if I only add that the idea is true or almost true, is called theoretical science. Einstein’s work was 99% of this nature. It led other people to understand the energy potential of nuclear fission, and the rest is history.

          • Tully, if your rebuttal here refers to Ex-Pralite’s comment (about measuring circumference), that advance may, strictly speaking, not be “science”, but so what?
            This thread started, with a claim about “the reason Europe began to race ahead of the world five centuries ago”.

            So, the issue here is, did advances, like measuring earth’s circumference, help Europe eventually race ahead?
            And, how much did such advances owe to Christianity, vs. how much to other factors (e.g. the Ancients, e.g. in Greece)?

            Debate on such matters is nowadays far better on the Right than on the Left.
            Let’s not let hyper-partisanship, for or vs. any particular viewpoint (e.g. vs. an “Ignorant twit”), poison a promising trend.
            Likewise, with splitting hairs about “science”, vs. technological, or other forms, of real progress.

          • Hi Jaq, yes my reply was to Ex’s comment. The fact of the matter here is that science or more accurately the scientific method arose directly from Christian theology. Not so much “The Church” as an institution but the theology behind it. Which is that God created Man with the capacity to reason, and that the world works according to laws that are both knowable and universal. A more in depth explanation can be found here
            Ex’s problem, along with some other commenters here is that he/they are confusing technological advances with science. They are not the same thing.

          • Chicken or egg.
            Did Christianity come from an uprooted and changing theology-
            Or did the theology and science come from broad, inheritable tendencies?

            I say the people and their way of looking at the world came first.

            Christian culture can influence, but won’t change the deep nature of African or Mestizo culture.

          • Yeah, Alzaebo, I don’t see these other cultures producing guys like Aristotle or Euclid, whose “way of looking at the world” could then inspire the Medievals, and then the Moderns.
            So, the lineage was Greeks, then (Christian and Islamic) Medievals, then Modern science.

          • Tully, Islamic theology may well have accomplished a similar feat, had the Mongols been stopped from spanking so much of the Moslem world, as fate spared W. Europe from a similar spanking.

            I’ll wager that Averroes’ position on theology and reason fit well with that of the Christian Medievals, and that he had much influence on Islamic theology, seeing as he was the Caliph’s fair-haired boy.

            Wikipedia describes his position as follows:
            “When conclusions reached by philosophy appear to contradict the text of the revelation, then according to Averroes, revelation MUST be subjected to interpretation or allegorical understanding, to remove the contradiction”.

          • And, both Christian and Moslem Medievals owed much of their view, that “the world works according to laws that are both knowable and universal”, to Aristotle, incl. to his idea of the Unmoved *Mover*.

          • Aristotle’s writings were known and held in Europe, while Plato’s were known and held in Islam.
            Averroes and Avicenna argued across a philosophical divide, as the two cultures refused to share at the time(s).

          • Well, Augustine was heavily influenced by Plato, too, and his writings/philosophy/theology influenced the Church over the years.

          • I seriously doubt that. Islamic theology states that evertthjng is subject to the will of Allah. He could decide tomorrow that pi = 2.14 instead of 3.14. It also stipulates that to study the natural world and it’s laws is to place limit the wlll of Allah. Since these natural laws are subject to Allah’s will, which could change at his whim, why bother studying it at all. There is a reason why science arose in Christian Europe and nowhere else.

          • “The fact of the matter here is that science or more accurately the scientific method arose directly from Christian theology.”

            I simply dont believe that for a second. Christian theology may have been rationalized or interpreted to ‘justify’ the scientific method ex post facto but they have virtually nothing in common.

            The scientific method, experiment and theory each advancing or confirming the other, was developed gradually by trial and error.

            I can accept as a plausible conjecture that the church’s, and accordingly Christianity’s practical, role in impeding science may have been exaggerated by people who didnt like Christianity such as Jacobines, marxists and postmodernists. But that the scientific method CAME from Christianity, that’s clearly ppl w agenda rather than an interest in truth.

          • Don’t really care what you believe Moran, it’s the truth. Whether you choose to accept it or continue to swallow the tiresome lefty propaganda about Christianity is on you.

    • That’s one of the main reasons, of course, as the Church banned cousin marriage to the 4th degree, which increased general intelligence levels. It also encouraged hard work and science…

    • With all due respect, that reasoning is faulty. Christianity could have arisen anywhere. In fact it was born in the Levant, but it did not take hold there in the way it did in Europe. Why did Catholicism (or Christianity) take hold in Europe and not elsewhere? There was no monopoly on the ideas behind Christianity.


      • Christianity was prevalent in Northern Africa, Syria, Turkey, Lebanon, and Europe. NOT in Israel. However, the Moslems came close to wiping out Christianity in all those places and half of Spain, and they left a mess in SE Europe when they retreated in the 1600’s, having failed to conquer Vienna.

  30. “He disagrees with those facts”

    Logical bug, you cannot disagree WITH a fact, you can at most disagree that something IS a fact. Otherwise good work.

    About Europe racing ahead, as teh Chinese are keen to point out, there was a time, before 1500 give or take a few hundred years, when Europe was not ahead. Civilization, ie cities and larger polities and such, started in Egypt, Mesapotamia and the Indus Valley and maybe in the Andes as well. A millinium or two later, the China show got rolling, maybe roughly the same time as the corner of Europe proper that was the closest to Egypt and Mesapotamia, Greece, started philosophizing over herding sheep and fighting off lions and wolves or whatever kept their lives interesting back then.

    I believe culture, and values and what kinds of systems, and even something as basic as sense of humor maybe (the Germans should have one genetically but in my experience they rather dont??) are all tied to race and genetics, and hence obviously also intelligence. So I believe Europeans will build different societies from others.

    But history does not suggest that we are inherently better at it than Chinese, Brahmins or whomever the Arabs killed off to snatch Mesapotamia and Egypt.

    Africa will go nowhere. But China clearly is going somewhere and somewhere very big. Maybe we are more creative, maybe we are even better at abstract thinking than the Chinese? But I dont see that we are inherently better at building advanced societies than they are. And as for those who would say ‘whites united in a sacred cause are the most awesome war machine known’, well, white thus united certainly know how to put on a road show. But Genghis Khan or a semi-industrialized Japan between 1937 and 1945??

    I think East Asians and Brahmins, and the lost peoples of Mesopotamia and ancient Egypt (and a place like Carthage) are probably our peers in building advanced civilizations. And I believe there is something to the idea of civilizations moving in phases, and we caught a shitty time to be born. But happy to hear (good) reasons why I might be wrong.

    • Huh. Just last night I listened to a podcast about the “Needham Question.”
      (Why, prior to the 15th C. China was far advanced of Europe–printing, gunpowder, etc.– and subsequently fell far behind.) In the modern era the Chinese seem to rely exclusively on industrial espionage. Anyway, links: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0038x9m
      http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780199920082/obo-9780199920082-0006.xml Maybe A future subject for “Z”??

      • It’s because the new emperor in 1492 burned all the records, banned pig iron as a defacto currency because he feared a forming middle class, beheaded the eunuch admirals and burned the Zheng Ho exploration fleet (the guys who left a map to Cuba, the one Columbus used).

        The Chinese have been burning the records in a Year Zero sonce Huang Ti.
        He wasn’t the first Emperor; he won the war against the Red, and burned.

        (The closest thing to Genesis is the story of this founding war between the Yellow and the Red; their Lucifer was General Chio-sure, who won the war with clever deceit.)

        If China had followed the same cultural arc as Britain- the spread of cast iron, a middle class, and deepwater navies- in 250 years they would’ve been on the Moon by the year 1750 AD.

      • I heard a claim that the Chinese historically had a very different approach to developing technology. They would develop one thing, then use it only for that. One example was gun powder. The Chinese developed it, used it for fireworks. But not much more. Guns were later developed by the Europeans. I think there were other examples. The conjecture was that the Chinese thought in a more ‘autistic’ way; they had a problem, they solved it and moved on. They did not try to improve it, develop more general principles or abstract theories about it.

        I think this fits with the observation, to my knowledge, of a quite conspicuous absence of ancient Chinese results in math. Math is abstract, a ‘perfect triangle’ etc, does not exist in the physical world, it is an abstraction. I have never heard of an ancient Chinese tradition comparable to the ancient Greeks or Babyloneans.

        I dont have enough info to have a strong opinion on the veracity of this conjecture. But if true, it might be whitie’s key to a job or position in the future. B/c in concrete problem solving, the Chinese are strong.

        • That was pretty much the gist of the podcast. (Still worth a listen as an intro to the subject.)

    • England had a higher per capita income than China in the 15th century.
      The Chinese argument doesn’t stack up so well if you compare it to England or northern Italy, rather than the whole of Europe.

      • Point taken, didnt know that. But isnt the more fair comparison then most advanced Chinese provinces or states or whatever they had then, to England or Northern Italy?

        Or maybe I was one or two centuries late in my choice of period of comparison?

  31. One of the things that defines basic intelligence in my mind is the ability to discern the fundamental difference between a population and a sample. There are lots of folks (even people like Greg Culver here) who say “Now I know a really smart INSERT ETHNICITY guy who…” and they miss the point completely. The population of people expressing a phenotype is way different than what a genetically similar population expresses. Variability in phenotype comes in individuals while the average is expressed in populations. I never understand when supposedly smart people fail to get this.

      • If you apply the populations versus samples thing correctly, you lose the “whaddabouts” which the Left uses to cherry pick for their noxious little arguments about every. last. meaningless. thing.

  32. Fah! Z, I could have written that myself, 3 years ago. Complete with subconscious instinctive virtue signalling. When I got exiled from the hive I first came across guys like Vox and Cerno and for awhile they seemed reasonable – and compared to what I had come from, they were. But in time you see such men for what they are – poseurs, hucksters, and performance artists. They had no real intellectual merit. Then came the NRx crowd and most of their creed was simply laughable. Most of those guys knew nothing of history or the faith, but they read from people that claimed to know about those things – and clearly didn’t. It was the blind being led by the blind. Benny Shapiro is not the worst there is over here by far.

    Our strength as I see it is that we notice things, we question them and we talk about them with no holds barred. There’s no outrage, no histrionics, Just factual, intelligent discussion and focused observation. In other words – we think and act like adults. Your buddy over at PJ Media is well on his way over. It just takes time.
    Reality catches up with everyone, given enough time.

    Keep doing what you do – and smile. We’re winning.

  33. You do have to acknowledge the power of social pressure on guys not using pseudonyms.

    As Z and others have pointed out, modern leftism really is like a religion, and being an atheist makes you an outcast.

    It’s like Christianity centuries ago: even if you didn’t really believe, you had to pretend to publicly, or be an outcast.

    It is telling how many of Our Guys, the 100% over the river guys, use pseudonyms.

    There was an interesting Twitter kerfuffle recently when Charles Murray said people shouldn’t use pseudonyms. Maybe the great and pseudonymous Z will take up the subject.

    My own commonsensical view is that, like the athiests of the old religions, these new atheists of the new religion will have to wait in the shadows until we reach a critical mass, then explode out with seeming suddenness.

    • Pseudonyms have always been the shield of the dissident. On the other hand, the defenders of the faith despise pseudonyms. They want all sinners dragged before the court and forced to answer for their crimes.

      Frankly, I’ve lost all respect for Murray. He’s at an age and position here can speak his mind.

    • “You do have to acknowledge the power of social pressure on guys not using pseudonyms.”

      Huh? I don’t see what that has to do with anything. Are you trying to excuse the guy’s silliness, his “CivNat absurdity” because he’s using his real name? That doesn’t wash at all. He’s being paid to write that crap. He’s a public employee of CivNat, Inc.

      • There is a lot to be said for earning a living and being able to support a family.

        As Z says, “They [the Left] want all sinners dragged before the court and forced to answer for their crimes.”

        Not so sure I agree with this comment from Z: [Murray is] at an age and position here can speak his mind.”

        Remember that at age 78, co-discoverer of DNA and Nobel laureate James Watson was suspended from the chancellorship of Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory for wrong-think comments he made about Africa. According to Wikipedia, he said in an interview he was “inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa” because “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours – whereas all the testing says not really”.

        Also according to Wikipedia, a week later “Watson attributed his retirement to his age, and circumstances that he could never have anticipated or desired.”

        The punishment for wrong-thinkers has only intensified in the decade since then.

        • Actually, Watson didn’t discover DNA. That honor is accorded to Friedrich Miescher. Watson and colleagues figured out the structure of DNA — the double helix. For dissidents, the moral of the story is the same.

          • Bah. Watson stole it. Another scientist, who took pictures of crystalline structures, tried her tech on biological material and saw the helixes, but was not yet ready to publish until the next week.

            He saw the pictures on her desk, and announced his ‘findings’ the very next day, saying “I had a dream”.

          • Agree. Just a pet peeve on my part.
            By the Left’s rules, he won, and then was put up against the wall after their victory.

          • No. Her name was Rosalind Franklin. She was brilliant. She died very young from cancer. Dead people are not eligible for Nobel Prizes. Stop making things out to be what they are not.

    • I’ve used SA since a little incident years ago on the WSJ board where in a discussion on climate change, happenend to share a few statistics from my industry rebutting a greenie’s stance on massive increases in damages from weather events. The little faggot actually tracked down my home number and called my home to threaten me. Well, we ended up have fulsome discussion about terminal ballistics and boxing and he decided the better part of valor would be to go away. So since Sam was a relative (yes I’m one of those Winthrop people-though with a twist) and used to publish as “Candidus”…”Saml Adams” it was.

      • Saml Adams: If you’ve already had previous online identities unmasked and had to switch to new pseudonyms because of it, then it’s really not a good idea to post content potentially linking your current one to the old one. The internet never forgets. Don’t leave a trail.

        • Forgot to note that I used my real name that was on the WSJ subscription. Have always assumed that someone motivated enough could dox me, but getting ever closer to that economic point where I give less and less of a shit. And think these LARP’ers like Antifa are going to begin learning, a two way firing range is not really that much fun.

      • So if the insurance industry knows, the folks with real money involved, then everybody knows. They Know.

    • How many neocon “outcasts,” are there? There are youtube monetized videos you can find today which advocate the genocide of the Arab population of Gaza or the West Bank. Explain how these all powerful “leftists,” haven’t done anything about this? Give me a break.

  34. Sorry Greg, America nor any other country works on a seniority system. You fight for your right to rule and what culture it will be.
    Cheddar man in England wants his stuff too.

    If this isn’t Tiny Duck’s regular troll it should be. Special treatment my ass.
    Where in God’s name do you come from?

  35. There is a point that the only thing I can conclude of why these ‘normycons’ still hold to their comfort blankets is that they are just paycheck conservatives. A term many are using to explain part of why they do what they do.

    They are always try to figure or read us out of the right. We have to get rid of them. Converting or red pilling works with a few.

  36. Stellar commentary as usual. Brains are not the main dividing line here. Courage is. Only those who have sufficient mettle to defy “acceptable” opinion will make it over to the biological realist side at this point. But give it time and that will likely change. Advanced findings in Genetics over the next ten to twenty years may cause all kinds of havoc for the egalitarian worldview. Patience.

  37. I’ve worked with incredibly intelligent people of all ethnicities, , Black, Asian, Indian… Again: Race is irrelevant. Culture that supports life long learning attitudes and hard work goes a very long way in the world.

    way way way more white people on food stamps than any other race. Tis not even close

    America never has been all white, and it never will be. The Indians of course were here long before us European folk. It’s possible, some say likely, that others too immigrated: Phoenicians, Polynesians, Asians. Who knows? Blacks arrived not long after white people did

    Rick Wilson was right. The right wing today is made of white single childless men who self pleasure to anime. Just because the playing field is being leveled and you wont get special treatment anymore doesn’t mean you are losing anything

    • Well, how do you explain the collapse of USSR, Yugoslavia or Czechoslovakia ? The last one is best example. Those two nations are very similar but both agreed that multi ethnic country is a time bomb and better leave as friends.
      Culture based things just do not work. Culture is ethnic thing and sometimes other ethnic group plays by other ethnic group rules long enough but this happens only in good times. First problem rips multi ethnic country apart. This is also why white nationalism never works. UK nationalists are too different from for example Polish nationalists.

      • Well, Juri, how do you explain the resiliency of Switzerland’s multi-ethnicity, for *centuries*?
        I explain it, by my addendum to Heartiste’s formula: “diversity + proximity + CENTRALIZATION = war.”
        The more that Big Bro pushes for “other ethnic group plays by other ethnic group rules”, the sooner war arrives.

        The Swiss “central gov’t” (such as it was) always knew that if, say, a German-dominated Bern tried to bulldoze French cantons, these Bern politicians would get quite a bloody nose.
        So, these politicians dared not even push for an official Capital City, much less for the sort of Federal/ Central bureaucracy which intimidates most countries’ peoples.

        “white nationalism never works”.
        Sure, if a multi-ethnic White Nationalist regime tried to impose dogmas on America’s melting pot, we’d soon see major hornets’ nests.
        But, if that regime allowed locals broad powers, e.g. to set up restrictive covenants, the different groups wouldn’t have much to fight over.
        Of course, ethnicity has been quite underrated by our current Powers That Be, but so too have the dangers of over-centralization.

        • Like libertarianism, or liberalism, or conservatism, it only works within ethnic boundaries. See non-white nations: the same boundaries apply.

          As Kipling said in White Man’s Burden, me and Jack despise each other, but we know why. We have no idea what will set off Hajji over there.

        • Co operation between different ethnic nationalists of course works. Switzerland is unique because all ethnic groups have land connection with their motherland. And in the Switzerland, there are conscription and all Military age males have army rifle and equipment in their home. So bad guys must think before….in US melting pot also probably exist because of 2 amendment keeping power crazy folk at bay. Unfortunately, guns are not almighty. We had lot of guns and soldiers after WW I but society was so divided that comrade Lenin succeed in the 1917.

          • Juri, when you have decentralization, you’re quite likely to have all Military age males having army rifle and equipment in their home.
            So, realistic policies and cultural etc. practices can do wonders for building trust between ethnic groups.
            “Trust, but verify!”

        • When I was in grad school, my European Politics professor, who was Swiss, explained it very well. The various Cantons were segregated according to culture and language.

          The national government is less powerful than the secregatated area governments.

      • it’ll work in whatever is left of america because by god there are those of us that will NEVER quit.

    • “I’ve worked with incredibly intelligent people of all ethnicities, , Black, Asian, Indian… Again: Race is irrelevant.”

      One does not follow from the other. There are clearly very bright blacks. But not very many compared to whites or Asians.

      I also suspect that the current IQ model, where IQ, or g factor, is said to be one thing, is perhaps simplistic. Why should one assume that the cognitive output value of something as abstract and complex as the human mind (or brain?) can be satifactorily mapped onto an interval of the real line between 0 and maybe 300 tops? That is actually quite an assumption. Maybe you need more dimensions? We know that women are better at language and men better at math, so we probably need at least a 2-D space to map onto. And I suspect we might need a few more Ds as cognitive sciences advance.

      • Actually, as the cognitive sciences progress it become more obvious that sub-Saharan negroes are far below whites with regard to the measured IQ. Current test would indicate below 70, the previous number.

    • The typical immigrant from India in the US is well-educated and probably comes from a wealthy family from the upper castes. It’s the only way they can get a visa to live here. You’re experiencing confirmation bias and erroneously think all Indians are like the ones you see in the US. They’re not.

      I like a modest amount of legal immigration. My cardiologist from Greece is one of the top in his field and I’m glad he lives in the US. Too bad for Greece because they’re missing one great cardiologist.

      • This brain drain is one of the reasons I favor very strict immigration limits. If the US scoops up all the words doctors, the conditions in the nations that send them here will worsen increasing migration pressures.

        • If pressed by someone on this, just ask them, “Well I assume you would think it’s immoral to strip mine the Third World for their physical resources, correct?”

          “Of course.”

          “Then why are you in favor of strip mining them of their very precious intellectual resources, which to the degree that it occurs only ensures that these nations will fall further behind at increasing rates?”

          They usually just scowl and walk away.

    • Then why is Africa such a mess? And why is everyone trying to emigrate to “white” countries, and not the other way around?

    • No, dipshit, Rick Wilson is not right. Rick Wilson has never been right about anything in his miserable life.

    • “I’ve worked with incredibly intelligent people of all ethnicities…”

      Too bad it didn’t rub off. You exhibit all the characteristic strategies of the disingenuous liberal: there’s condescension (“Again:”), unproven absolutes (“race is irrelevant”), dishonest/irrelevant statistics (“way more white people on food stamps), nonsequiturs (“America has never been all white”), and snark (“men who self pleasure to anime”). Not a single honest (or intelligent) argument in your entire comment.

      But then, I’m not telling you anything you didn’t already know.

    • The playing field is being leveled by cutting down the best to the level of the least. There is no such thing as a level playing field and never has been. That very idea is the heart of communism and the only way to make anything level is to cut down the top. As a society or culture we can try and give a hand up to those less fortunate but we cannot level their playing field. Is every man as hansom as Sean Connery, as talented as Jimmy Stewart, as fast as Ali or as smart as Einstein? Then the playing field is not level.

      As far as race goes the Caucasian race is by far the more talented in almost every respect. Of course the elites are trying to breed and beat that out of us but for now it still holds true. That fact does not mean there are no worthy traits or talents among the other races because there are.

      Just my opinion.

      • Absolutely, Hoagie. Kurt Vonnegut’s story _Harrison Bergeron_ exemplified this ignorant “level the playing field” tripe, taking it to its obvious, socialist extreme.

        • A favorite… and written long before PC was even close to reaching where it is today.

    • Rick Wilson was right

      Your comment is the first time those words have ever been strung together in that order. Allow me to congratulate you on your groundbreaking work in advancing human stupidity.

    • I’ve worked with smart people of all ethnicities too. They were generally good people but there is a rub

      Preference for ones own kind is genetic and any society that becomes diverse will fail. There aren’t any diverse societies that function well , even Switzerland is essentially a small state made up of three societies that do little together

      Singapore the arch example is a one party authoritarian state with basically no birth rate (its 1.24)

      None of them work, its simply human nature

      Let me give another example, Belgium.

      Its two ethnicities basically the same race but the differences between Flemish and Waloons are profound enough that Belgium cannot put and effective government together even to separate.

      The only way to make this work is more homogeneity and truth.

      This doesn’t bode well for the US but once we allowed slavery and significant non British immigration and had multiple views of federal power, the nation was doomed anyway

    • Intelligence is not the issue in this discussion. Your conclusion is pure garbage. The playing field will never be “level” because the players are not. Many ethnic people are extremely effective and successful not because of the ethnicity, but because they offer value to others as individual persons of quality.

      The “special treatment” as institutionalized by “affirmative action” for decades has been to the detriment of those you accuse of getting (yes accuse) special treatment. They have paid for the special treatment of others to “level the playing field” and have had the good deeds punished repeatedly and continually with a complete disintegration of society and culture into a continual outrage and protest against the rule of law and the sanctity of home, family and faith. Your thinly veiled rebuke based on racism (yes judging other based solely on race) is part of the attack that never stops.

      As a person of color, I see the hypocrisy for what it is and I know that an ethnic person or a white person are equally capable of good or evil. That is the fabric of human interaction, ultimately. When one part of a culture special interest faction (their “side”- as they see it) demands continual of retribution for ancient historical wrongs (and also tries to erase the facts that contradict the foundation of the alleged wrongs simultaneously)., that group (one of the many “protected classes”) gives up its self empowerment and self responsibility and in fact spends all its focus in blaming whoever the target is for the lack they somehow claim to have in life experience- and this is usually simply self delusion- or worse- a lie.

      All are responsible for ourselves regardless of race. creed or color and attacking another group, gender or faith is simply a grab, based in greed, for “the stuff” of the world that some believe they are somehow entitled to. If that is a level playing field- racism with another face- that is far from social justice. And its a “playing field” that is about the future of a nation and collection of philosophy and ideal we have benefited greatly from- and that your views assist in destroying- as they support reasons for offense against others- knowingly or otherwise.

    • There are more whites on welfare than blacks because whites outnumber blacks by a factor of six to one. On a per capita basis, blacks consume far more welfare than any other race…hands down.

    • Mr. Culver: You want reality? Go over to the WRSA website. Go to the archives for August,2014. That is when all of the festivities in Ferguson, MO were happening. You will find in my comments, a description of “Bump Day”, which used to occur on public transportation in LA in the 30’s and 40’s.
      If you do not wish to do that, rent the original WAR OF THE WORLDS, starring Gene Barry from the 1950’s. Pay close attention to the actor who plays the Pastor in the beginning on the film. Your worlds remind me of him. You are probably a very sincere, nice man. You have no clue, sir.

    • Race is not irrelevant when you are of one racial group and another racial group wants you dead. Maybe even wants you dead without any willingness to discuss differences. There are lots of racial groups busy hating others and within those groups, many of the same racial groups are more than willing to take a machete to or a plant a bomb among their own kind.

      I seriously recommend you, Mr Culver, grow up and start looking at the world as it is and not as your fantasies wish. While you are busy enjoying your daydreams, there are people who are nursing an active dislike of you because of how and where you were born. Learn to recognise them before it is too late.

    • Greg Culver,
      Go live for a year in Africa, the Middle East, China or South America, then come back and reevaluate your comment.

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