Cornpone Nonsense

A long time ago, I decided I would just ignore the intelligent design people. I’m perfectly fine leaving them to their beliefs, as I don’t think it causes any harm for people to believe in a supernatural designer. In fact, I feel the same way about creationists. There’s no harm in it and if it brings people some peace and comfort, that seems like a good thing. The reason I will not debate evolution with them, however, is that intelligent design people rarely argue in good faith. They engage in sophistry and logical fallacies, rather than honest debate.

ID’ers will often misrepresent some bit of science, in order to discredit it, and by extension, everything they claim rests upon it. The thermodynamics and entropy argument that was popular with them for a while was a grossly inaccurate interpretation of the science and a faulty application of it. order cannot arise from disorder.By the time you corrected them, they were onto some other half-baked claim. It is simply a waste of time debating them as they just keep moving the goal posts, demanding you prove them wrong.

Anyway, this steaming pile of nonsense from Fred Reed the other day reminds me a lot of the way ID’ers attack evolution. If I recall, Reed is a flat earth guy, so it is probably a habit of mind that puts ID’er and IQ denialists in the same pew.

Apologies to the reader. Perhaps I wax tedious. But the question of intelligence is both interesting to me and great fun as talking about it puts commenters in an uproar. It is like poking a wasp’s nest when you are eleven. I am a bad person.

This Gomer Pyle routine has always been a part of his act. It’s a form of intellectual base stealing where the writer gets to declare the subject, upon which he intends to opine, is easily reduced to folk wisdom. The author is the folksiest of folk wizards, so that means he can be an expert on the countrified version of the topic. He also likes playing the Jon Stewart game of wearing the serious mask when criticizing others, but then donning the clown mask when receiving criticism. In Reed’s case, it is “Ah shucks fellers, I’m just a simple country boy. Why are you sore with me?”

Clearing the underbrush: Obviously intelligence is largely genetic–if it were cultural in origin, all the little boys who grew up in Isaac Newton’s neighborhood would have been towering mathematical geniuses–and obviously the various tests of intellectual function have, at least among testees of similar background, considerable relation to intelligence.

This is a good example of what ID’ers like doing when attacking evolution. It is the false concession. He appears to be conceding that iQ is not cultural, but in reality he is saying it is not magic.  What Reed is describing, with regards to Newton, is not culture. It is magic. Culture is the highly complex feedback loop that evolved over time among a group of people with a shared heritage and biology. Mere proximity does not mean culture. That’s just a version of Magic Dirt Theory. No one would call that culture.

Some individuals have more of it than others. For example, Hillary, a National Merit Finalist, scored higher than 99.5 percent of Illinois and can reliably be suspected of being bright. Some groups are obviously smarter than other groups. Mensans and Nobelists are smarter than sociologists. Of course, so are acorns.

But knowing that a thing exists and measuring it are not the same thing.

Notice the Hillary gag. He knows his readers are not Hillary voters so he attempts to discredit the idea of intelligence, by pointing out that, according to standardized testing, Clinton is intelligent. “How ’bout that fellers? These pin-headed IQ people are so dumb they they think that fat commie Hillary Clinton is smart! Shazam!” It is a way to get the reader to accept a point that the writer was never able, or never bothered, to prove. It’s basically guilt by association.

Notice also the subtle confusion of the idea of shared group traits. When people in the cognitive sciences talk about shared traits, they mean biological groups, not social groups or arbitrary categories like Nobel Prize winners. The implication of what Reed is claiming here is that sub-Saharan Africans, for example, are just a random a collection of people like the local PTA or Rotary Club. That’s absurd. They are people with a shared biological heritage and as a result, a shared sent of traits that evolved in Africa.

This fits in well with the last line where he claims you can know something exists, without measuring it. This is complete nonsense. We cannot know something exists without having some evidence of it. Seeing a a mysterious animal may not tell us much, but it is data of an animal. How accurately we can measure a thing like IQ or height or weight is the question, not whether we can measure it. Of course, what he is trying to slip in here is the assertion that just because something can be measured does not mean it exists.

Virtuosity in taking tests is similarly affected by experience in taking tests. Like most in my generation, I was subjected to unending tests: an IQ test in the second grade when my teacher thought me retarded (as many readers still do). Some sort of Virginia test. PSATs. NMSQT. SATs. GREs. Marine Corps General Qualification Test. FSEE. And so on.

As I suppose others did, I learned the technique for acing tests. Run through all the questions rapidly, picking the low-hanging fruit, putting a tick mark by those questions not instantly obvious. Run through again, answering those of the tick-markeds susceptible to a minute’s thought, double tick-marking the really difficult ones. Then to the really hard ones and finally, with an eye on the clock and knowing how the tests are scored, eliminate one or two answers on the remaining ones and guess.

This is a bit of folk nonsense popular with people who have no idea how intelligence testing is constructed. Test designers have understood for generations that guys like Fred Reed will try to game the test. People who have done a lot of test administration learn that people in the high normal range really worry that they are just in the normal range, rather than some level of genius. Therefore, they will be the ones who are the least honest in test taking. That’s why the tests are designed to mitigate this observed phenomenon.

The most common way of defeating the scheme Fred thinks is effective is to make the exams progressively more difficult. Therefore, running through and answering the easy ones just means you get frustrated quickly as you find fewer and fewer cherries to pick from the exam. Some tests are designed such that non-consecutive answers will be discarded. These days, test takers will use a computer and not have the ability to skip ahead looking for easy questions, even if they think it will work.

Among the lumpen-IQatry, the tendency is to regard SATs, NAEP, and so on as surrogates for IQ, and thus for intelligence. This is error. The SATs in particular are not intelligence tests and were never intended to be. Their function was to measure the student’s ability to handle complex ideas in complex normal English, which is what college students used to do. The tests did did this well. The were not intelligence tests as their scores were functions of at least three things, intelligence, background, and experience in taking tests. IQ = f(a,b,c…)

This is a what is called a lie. Yes, some standardized tests correlate with IQ tests in narrow areas, but exactly no one in the cognitive sciences thinks the SAT is a surrogate for an intelligence test. As for the claim regarding cultural bias, that’s always been nonsense, as anyone who has taken the Raven’s Progressive Matrices would know. When researchers look at IQ among groups, they specifically use these sorts of exams. Here’s a short presentation on IQ testing in Africa for those interested.

Like those ID’ers I referenced at the start of this post, Fred has the habit of assuming that his position must be right if the alternative is not proved beyond all doubt. If evolutionary biology has not answered all of his questions to his satisfaction, then it must all be wrong and his brand of oogily-boogily is correct. Similarly, because there are lots of things we don’t know about IQ, he feels free to dismiss all of it, even the stuff that is correct.

What’s objectionable about Fred Reed is not the sugar-coated goober routine that he lays on so thick it gives you cavities. That’s tolerable if it is sincere. When he gets into these topics, there is a distinct lack of authenticity. There’s a meanness to his approach, as if he is bitter at not being able to keep up with the crowd, so he invests his time in trying to prove there’s no reason to bother. Regardless of the motivations, his brand of cornpone nonsense is exactly that, nonsense.

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james wilson
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Ya, Fred hates IQ. He’s lived with Mestizo’s since Cortez lay down with his first squaw to make one, and Fred told us a Mestizo can do anything a Euro peon can do, except better….. or at least anything he has asked them to do. So there! Hard to understand why the Army, a known equal employment agency, will not accept an IQ below 91. They claim that is throwing a monkey wrench into the machine.

smitty1e
Guest
>A long time ago, I decided I would just ignore the intelligent design people. I’m perfectly fine leaving them to their beliefs, as I don’t think it causes any harm for people to believe in a supernatural designer. In fact, I feel the same way about creationists. I’m there with you, from the Christian perspective. While accepting the truth of the Word, I don’t subscribe to literalism at either end of the book. OTOH, I’m just not sure that the origin of life is empirically knowable. Standing by for the repeatable experiment that goes from inorganic, to self-reproducing organic, chemistry.… Read more »
james wilson
Guest

So what is what is said by people with an advantage and sometimes by people who know they are never going to have one.

Dutch
Guest

I am willing to entertain ID. I am willing to entertain some of the alternate theories of how 9/11 went down as well. But I haven’t seen enough there, on either one, IMO, to go banging the drum for them.

Samuel Nock
Guest

You may know that Fred Reed also does not accept Darwinism, yes? Or was your use of that example a coincidence?

http://www.fredoneverything.net/BotFly.shtml

There are other posts if you search.

I will admit that, while not buying into ID or creationism, I do accept that there are problems with TENS, as does Vox Day:

http://voxday.blogspot.com/search?q=evolution

Issac
Guest

Vox gives Reed a run for his money on snake oil.

Tekton
Guest
For the record, Fred is not a ‘Creationist’, nor is he a Christian. I’m also pretty certain he’s not a flat-earther. And obviously, neither is he a race realist… I am all of those, however. There is no conflict with historical, factual knowledge, or “science” in taking up any of those philosophical positions. Those are notorious issues of great debate among thinking men, but you are certainly not an authority on any of them, so I wouldn’t bother arguing the finer points. I like Fred and enjoy his “gomerish” writing style. I also like yours, Zman. That’s why I read… Read more »
Dutch
Guest

Zman encourages comments and Fred doesn’t allow them. I enjoy both blogs, but I particularly enjoy the comments on Zman and give Z respect for allowing us to take shots at him.

Given Fred Reed’s points of view, a comment section there would be a hoot but probably require a shower afterwards.

Abelard Lindsey
Guest

I like Fred and what he has to say on most subjects. I especially agree with his antiwar position. I simply disagree with him on evolution and pay him no attention when he writes about that particular topic.

There is no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Severian
Guest
One of my gigs is in the Ed biz, so I love these discussions of “testing,” its relationship to IQ, and how to game both. As you say, modern tests work really well to foil gamesters. The GRE, for example, is computerized for this reason. Questions get progressively harder. Since my program didn’t require a math score, but you couldn’t just skip it on the computer, I clicked “C” for every answer. The lowest possible score on a GRE section is 200, and I got… a 220. (Meaning, I think, that I randomly got the first question right). Better yet,… Read more »
Dutch
Guest
I took the GREs decades ago, before they were computerized. They were to be used as our department finals, and two of us figured out that we could take a nationally offered administration the fall before. By comparing notes, and studying the subjects emphasized on the first taking, we moved our scores up a ton on the school administration. The rest of the department scored in the 70s percentiles on a normalization of the raw scores. The two of us scored in the 90s. We had both scored in the 70s on the fall administration. Some years back, I was… Read more »
Severian
Guest
There’s a lot of that, but there’s actual outright theft of the test — China and (I think) S. Korea got busted a few years back. Then they get to the US and continue their, ummm, entrepreneurial ways — the U. of Iowa, I think, busted a huge plagiarism ring among Chinese students a few years back. They were all paying for term papers from the same service. As literally every Asian national I’ve ever had in class (again, quite a few) enthusiastically and unabashedly cheats on everything, constantly — and as this is well known at every college in… Read more »
Matt
Guest
zman, The SAT used to be considered an IQ test. Then the moonbats changed the test to measure other things. Mensa no longer accepts high scores on the SAT. They did however, accept it from 1974-1994. A score of 1250 or higher during that period qualified for Mensa. Since 1994 College Admissions also changed. Essays, other activities in school or community (aka your brag sheet), race, social economic status, nepotism, & guvmnt subsidies are all factored in along with your fake IQ test score and your fake grades (remember this is the age of everyone gets a prize) which are… Read more »
Joey Junger
Guest
I put Fred Reed into the same category as Jim Goad. Everything he’s ever written has been a shtick, a part of an act, a character he’s cultivated over the years for people who want to feel edgy but don’t actually want to really wander off the reservation or look deeper into the way things work and the “why” behind it. And yes, just as you mentioned a few days ago regarding how we have blind-spots regarding things we want to keep (online shopping was your example, I believe), Fred’s blank slate b.s. is totally motivated by the fact that… Read more »
karl hungus
Guest

yep, everything fred writes is to justify — mostly to himself — his choice of lady friend.

Dutch
Guest

Some weird sort of white knighting thing.

Toddy Cat
Guest
To give Fred credit where it’s due, there’s been one area where he has been utterly consistent; Feminism. He hated feminists back in the 1970’s, and he hates them now. I have actually wondered if Fred’s soft spot for Mestizo culture may have something to do with the exaggerated masculinity of Latinos. Yeah, they may have IQ’s of 91, they may knife or shoot each other at near-African rates, they may get ripped after half a Tecate, but at least their damned women know their place. American Blacks, on the other hand, have a matriarchal culture. Fred despises them. Makes… Read more »
Member

I had been of the general opinion that Fred was pretty good until last year when he wrote a piece on health insurance that could have been written by Bernie Sanders with a bit of Hillary thrown in for good measure. Then I started looking more closely and it began to dawn on me that perhaps he might be somewhat of a moron. Glad to know that I’m not alone.

LetsPlay
Member

And then there are those posts that are clearly written while under the influence. He needs a sign in front of his computer, “Fred, don’t drink and write!”

Dan Kurt
Member
1) re: IQ testing: personal experience. Father age 90 a year before he died told me that I had a full IQ test by a school district psychologist in 2nd grade and its results were within 2 points of another IQ test (full scale) when 17 as a freshman in college. Three years later took the GREs and the scores of the combined Verbal and Math give an IQ which also was within two points of the other two. A fourth IQ test was taken prior to my entering the Navy when I was 24 and it also was within… Read more »
Rod Horner
Guest

> If the Earth is circa 4 billion years old there probably is not enough time to effect evolution unless panspermia

Based on what assumptions?

Dan Kurt
Member
@ Rod Horner “Based on what assumptions?” not enough time…. Funny how the argument that evolution has not had enough time (Wistar conference about 1966 or so) and parallel selection (The Z-Man’s reference above) that finds enough time both originate at the University of Pennsylvania albeit separated by half a century. Fred Hoyle, a proponent of the Steady State Cosmology view as opposed to the Big Bang*, wrote a lot on Panspermia including a book on the topic: Evolution From Space: A Theory of Cosmic Creationism. I never read the book, only some reviews, so I can only mention it… Read more »
dad29
Guest

Culture is the highly complex feedback loop that evolved over time among a group of people with a shared heritage and biology.

If by ‘shared heritage’ you mean “cult”, then yes. If you excise “cult” from the equasion, I–like Pp. Benedict XVI–think you miss the boat.

P_Ang
Guest

Ah yes, the famous “my terrible science and bad conclusions are more realistic than you stupid Christians terrible science and bad conclusions” argument. I can (and do) hear this every day from every idiot lib on the street. Why does anyone need to hear it here?

Karl Hungus
Guest

say, aren’t you really Ho Chi Minh jr ? you used to be called Lil’Mingh back in Danang? I’m sure it’s you, Madame Butterfly!

JohnTyler
Guest
What would be interesting, though never done, would be to ask IQ test takers who have supplied the “wrong” answer to explain why they chose the answer they chose (specifically, to those questions involving only visual questions). I will surmise that most of them can supply a perfectly rational reason for their choice, and further, one most likely would find that the explanations would differ as a function of one’s culture and background. What would be the results of an IQ test devised by, say, Africans? or Apaches ? or the Inuits? or Chinese? I do not doubt the veracity… Read more »
Horace Pinker
Guest

IQ tests are crude and imperfect measures of intelligence, but their predictive validity isn’t in dispute. The US military uses the Armed Forces Qualification Test, which is a pretty good proxy for IQ, and typically doesn’t take recruits with IQs below ~91. Below that level, you simply can’t train soldiers well. I wonder how Mr. Reed’s fellow grunts would feel if he started arguing that this whole AFQT thing is nonsense and it’s bullshit to think that a soldier with an IQ of 80 is just as good as anyone else on the battlefield.

Horace Pinker
Guest

*isn’t just as good

Toddy Cat
Guest
Yes, Fred’s biggest problem is his utter inconsistency, and has been throughout his long career. I’ve been reading Fred, off and on, since his “Soldier of Fortune” days forty years ago, and he’s always been like this. Contrarianism is all for the guy. For example, back in the 1970’s and early 1980’s Fred was gung-ho on the Vietnam War. According to him back then, Vietnam was a noble cause, and the traitors who lost it for us in Washington deserved hanging, at best. But come Reagan, and our victory in the Cold War, not just Vietnam, but the whole Cold… Read more »
Dutch
Guest

If you subject yourself to feedback, comments in the case of a blog, your less reasonable srguments get shot down. Thinking or blogging in a mental cocoon is not conducive to good thinking.

Al from da Nort
Guest
Having been a military personnel officer for a brief time during and then following the late unpleasantness in SE Asia in the ’70’s, I can tell you that the military is only as picky as it can get away with. War’s over; Standards up. O sh*t, we can’t fill our recruiting quota’s now that the draft’s gone; Dial standards down a bit, etc. So I confidently predict that _when_ the next mass casualty land war kicks off, grunts with > 80 IQ will suddenly be just as good as anyone else, just not being put in charge of anything important… Read more »
Horace Pinker
Guest

The military still uses the ASVAB. I don’t know if it’s given to everyone, but my brother took it after maxing out his AFQT and ended up working as a linguist. I was genuinely surprised that the kid was smart enough to pick up Chinese as well as he did.

I’m sure you’re right about the potential for military to relax its standards if we were to enter a new mass casualty war and I think it would be pretty ugly:

https://www.amazon.com/McNamaras-Folly-Low-IQ-Troops-Vietnam-ebook/dp/B0108H60MG

Al from da Nort
Guest
Horace; If it’s not too late to reply; I can confirm what’s said in the book blurb about low IQ, not to mention criminals, being brought into the ground forces in large numbers during Vietnam. While not in the ground forces, I had plenty of day-to-day contact with them during that time. As mentioned, this policy was a deliberate, political act to spare the spawn of the middle and upper class GGen (such as myself). It was consciously and callously done to keep down political opposition to The Great Society spending that LBJ et.al. urgently desired to ramp up. Wasn’t… Read more »
Mister M
Guest

Fred is the king when it comes to ripping apart the mainstream media or explaining how the USA of yesteryear was vastly superior – before the One True Religion took it over. He’s also good on destroying feminism. When he wanders off on these topics… not so much.

Toddy Cat
Guest

Yeah, Fred’s best stuff is his pre-1968 nostalgia stuff, which, being in the same general age bracket, I can attest to as being fairly accurate, if a bit schmaltzy. But the guy is an entertainer, not any kind of a serious intellectual (although he is certainly smart enough, when he drops the Andy Griffith act).

Anonymous White Male
Guest
I’ve read some of Fred Reed’s stuff on Unz, American Thinker, and American Renaissance, sites that contain much which leans neocon. Yes, he tries to come across as a folksy, “Hey, we’re just sitting’ by the cracker barrel jawin'” kind of guy. That’s his shtick. He writes for a living and comes up with enough copy to keep his señora in guacamole. He is popular, with his audience. I’ve read some of his stuff that he’s written that I just shake my head at. But, he is not an intellectual writer. He writes for the ‘booboisie’ as Mencken would say.… Read more »
Karl Hungus
Guest

huh, the left enforces political orthodoxy, the right enforces social orthodoxy.

Toddy Cat
Guest

AmREn is neocon? Holy Crap, when did that happen?

Anonymous White Male
Guest

Occasionally, they will repost a thread from various authors that are “socially acceptable”, if you know what I mean. Not all of them, mind you, but some.

Member
I have no deep opinions on any of this, but do recall that the GMAT had an adaptive algorithm which made the questions harder if you got them right, and easier if you got them wrong. After about the first 10 questions, you final rough score was determined, and the remaining questions fine tuned your score like the old tuning dials in your pre-digital car radio. If you were to miss the very first question, you were kind of toast, because the decision tree branches would not let you recover to a top score. I knew I was doing well… Read more »
Ergo
Guest

That moment when someone you enjoy reading displays the very hard limits of their knowledge and then revels in it…

(And a. I’m not talking about Fred Reed, who is as ersatz a commentator as they come and b. I’m not a believer in any god or gods.)

Outdoorspro (former)
Guest

Pretty much agree that Fred is …difficult… at times to read. Other times though, he’s quite on-the-mark. Like this recent column:

https://fredoneverything.org/oncoming-racial-doom-the-clash-of-cultures/

“Why should the least productive, most criminal, most dependent of the population rewrite history that in any event they don’t know? The erasure of the South and the Confederacy by people most of whom couldn’t spell it, of Washington and Jefferson and Lee by grifters, race hustlers, wanton illiterates and the Brownshirts of Black Lives Matter…enough.”

Member
1. Yes, Fred’s shtick is aw-shucks with hand waving. I have a limited appetite for this and thereby have limited my consumption of Fred’s writing over the years. Most writers develop a style or voice after a while and they run with it. 2. The source of Fred’s Mexi-philia and his antipathy toward arguments and metrics that show hispanics in a bad light is easy enough to suss out. Same as Tom Kratman’s WRT civic vs ethno-nationalism. 3. From my perspective, IQ is such a useful predictor with such high correlation to so many other metrics that if it didn’t… Read more »
Bunny
Guest

Just to drive you all crazy, I’m throwing out this headline from that fine scientific journal, The Daily Mail:
Mixed Race Relationships Are Making Us Taller and Smarter
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3146070/Mixed-race-relationships-making-taller-smarter-Children-born-genetically-diverse-parents-intelligent-ancestors.html

Toddy Cat
Guest

Well, it’s certainly making those whose ancestors were shorter and stupider taller and smarter. It all depends on who “us” is…

Bunny
Guest

Oh, no, no, no, the article posits it is making us taller and smarter all around. An injection of new blood to revitalize the race, as it were. As much as you guys complain about American women, I expected to see more support for a brother who intermarried into an outgroup where the women are muy mujer

AltitudeZero
Guest

To be honest, I can actually sympathize with ol’ Fred. Feminism poisoned the minds of the better part of two generations of American women, and there are plenty of smart, hot Mexican chicks that any American guy might be tempted to marry (although they tend not to age particularly well, in my experience). But that’s really no excuse. I suppose that we can at least be grateful that Fred isn’t banging a sheep, so that we are spared his editorializing concerning Ovine Equality.

LetsPlay
Member

I was waiting, so sure that in no. 7 you were going to mention the modeling of climate change/global warming “scientists” of consensus-ville. Nothing like being able to tweak a model to get just the results you were looking for.

Member

Climate scientist-activists are implied by the term “suchlike.” I have a whole list of serious problems with how the climate changers go about their work, but there is only so much time in the day…

TomA
Guest

Once upon a time, our ancient ancestors lived in world of extreme hardship and existential threat. And one very helpful byproduct of this environment was that it tended to eliminate the stupid from the gene pool. High intelligence improves our species because it aids in our ability to survive and thrive; particularly in highly variable environments such as found in the upper latitudes.

The Fred Reed described in this post is using his intelligence to deceive others. This is what predators do to survive.

james wilson
Guest

If extreme hardship raised the common intelligence then Africans would be scholars and Eskimos physicist. Likewise Erectus did pretty well over two continents for several hundred thousand years carrying around an 800 cc brain. Why primitive man of any race would develop the capacity for calculus remains a mystery. Best bet is it had something to do with getting the best babe, or more likely visa-versa. Maybe the meek didn’t inherit the earth but actually made it.

TomA
Guest

I don’t mean to be rude, but neither Eskimos nor Africans experience highly variable environments. You lose 10 IQ points.

james wilson
Guest

Having reached 70, I have in fact lost ten points. But the fact is that “highly variable” is your term, and my response was to “extreme hardship”. Let me know if you need help with your reading comprehension, even if you are still talking out of your ass.

Zeroh Tollrants
Guest
I don’t know what it says about me that I’ve never thought to take tests in the manner that Fred describes. I also don’t know what it says about me that I find the whole ID/creation discussion mostly just boring and I don’t care what people think about it, one way or another. I’ve never been a regular Fred reader, but I have ran across pieces by him, from time to time. I can’t say I have much of an opinion on the body of his content, as I’m not that knowledgeable. I can say though, as a true Deep… Read more »
Frank Griffin
Guest
Finally a topic I have some personal experience with. Back in college I took a test that indicated that I had an IQ above 200. Having been told I was an imbecile by my father my whole life, i was pretty happy about that. My professor got me involved in a whole ton of additional testing. These tests were quite varied and it turned out that my little talent was shape analogies. I took a tremendous number of shape analogy tests. No words, just shapes. No language, no math, just shapes. In the end, there was no particular number that… Read more »
LetsPlay
Member
(Jeopardy) Alex, I’ll take ID for $600. I am one of those who prefers the Biblically linked idea of Intelligent Design to the unpredictable and thoroughly inexplicable “evolution” of the various life forms, minerals and plants on this earth. That some can believe these things just “happened” when so many wonderfully diverse creations exist and abound around the world is puzzling to me. If one only looks at the human body, all it’s specialized components, organs, processes for replacing itself, for the cycle of growth to death, much less the spirit, mind, ego, side of things, the mental capabilities of… Read more »
Rod1963
Guest

I like Fred and find him entertaining on certain subjects. On some subjects like ID, I just ignore him though.

He’s spot on, in regards to blacks, education and American women, the military. Other stuff he’s iffy or yanking readers chains to get a rise out of them.

But it doesn’t mean he should be condemned. Heck I think half the stuff Sailer writes about is nothing but click bait and his posters say more interesting things than him most of the time. And that guy is supposedly one of the doyens of the alt-right movement.

JamesG
Guest
Here’s a big picture angle. Perhaps our country’s greatest 20th Century accomplishment was the enormous buildup of our armed forces in World War Two. We went from a few hundred thousand to ten million plus and it was done very quickly. It was also done efficiently. We did not form unorganized mobs we formed a huge functioning army and a large navy. Could it have been done without massive use of psychological testing, including the AGCT and other quasi-IQ tests? I don’t think so. Entering the Army in the early 1950s I and my fellow recruits were subjected to hours… Read more »
Christopher S. Johns
Guest
I admit that I enjoy Fred Reed because he writes well and I find his brand of curmodgeon amusing, in part because you don’t need to ascribe to his cantankerous opinions to be entertained by them. And it’s true that IQ test-bashing is a hobbyhorse of Fred’s which he he likes to take out and ride around every so often because he knows that it will rile people up. His take is always a variation on how his immediate observable reality of life in Mexico doesn’t jibe with what the IQ testers say it should be: “Look,” he says, “I… Read more »
LetsPlay
Member
Maybe you guys have heard the joke about evolution being like shaking a million pieces of a Boeing 747 together for billions of years before, amazingly, one day, winding up with a fully functional flying machine! Well, in looking up that analogy, I came across an interesting site called “Answers in Genesis” and an article entitled “Three Puzzles Evolution Can’t Solve.” https://answersingenesis.org/evidence-against-evolution/three-puzzles-evolution-cant-solve/ If you can keep your minds open even if you don’t like ID or creationism, maybe this will give you food for thought: * Life from Non-life * Information of Life * Irreducible Complexity Good detail that provides… Read more »
Michael J
Guest
Looks to me like you have strong pre-conceptions about Fred’s views and you are projecting them onto his words. I think some of the things you objected to are not actually in the piece. Fred isn’t a flat earther nor even an IDer. He has some strong criticisms of writing on evolution, but more from a “there’s still more we don’t know yet” than an “its all wrong” point of view. Fred’s primary point here appears to be that common estimates of country’s IQs look a bit low. He only mentions evolution in a facetious way (I don’t think he… Read more »
AltitudeZero
Guest
The problem that guys like Fred and Chanda Chisala have, is that their position is basically that Mestizos and Africans are just as smart as whites and Asians, and there is really nothing to support that position, except for obviously cherry-picked examples, such as the accomplishments of the Maya, and Scrabble play. I mean, if Africans were just as smart as whites on average, there would be at least one African country that would be doing as well with regard to social well-being, income, and stability as the worst country in Europe. Not all, but at least one. There isn’t.… Read more »
Member

Was the flat earther comment just sarcasm to denigrate Fred’s wandering off the approved conservative reservation?

I have read a few of his arguments on evolution and he never brings in religion or intelligent design. He just questions current orthodoxy and how nothing is settled. Many of my books that I have are against current evolution theory and written by atheists.

He is intelligent and also grating at times but always worth reading. Plenty of comments on his pieces at Unz. He even enters the fray from time to time.

LetsPlay
Member

Really? Didn’t know that there were comments on his articles. I’ll have to check that out at Unz. Thanks for the tip.

merrell denison
Guest

Looking through the comments, I gave an up vote to everyone who defended Fred Reed. Nekkid in Austin was a great read, I’m thinking the Zman may be deficient in his sense of humor?

Member

“If I recall, Reed is a flat earth guy, so it is probably a habit of mind that puts ID’er and IQ denialists in the same pew.”

I’m glad you used the word “pew.” Fred is a Presbyterian, and at a certain level, they are antagonistic to evolutionary biology. It does not match up with their teachings. If you try to explain to them that throwing money and medicine at primitive people will only increase the population of primitive people, well…you see the problem.

Member

Boy are you off.

Member

You have one up vote. I have four.

Tim
Guest

to know that their is something to smell, you have to know before hand it exists, design it. to see, the eye u need to know there is something to see, design it etc Creater no excuses

jack
Guest
Its none of my business if the Z man insists he must share common ancestry with Obama’s nut sac bacteria, and it’s none of his business if I think him a brainwashed gullible fool for believing it. It is the business of science, however, to first prove it is biologically possible in the first place for the progeny of bacteria to be anything other than bacteria, which any honest person would have to admit there is ZERO evidence for same. Nada. Zilch. Therefore, the logical evidentiary foundation for the entire case of common ancestry with all life, i.e. evolution, is… Read more »
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