At this point, everyone who is anyone has chimed in with a misinformed hot take on the riot in Charlottesville. I’ve done my share on Gab about it, but I thought a full post was a better way to make myself clear on the subject. A feature of outsider politics is that every event requires a response. It becomes a way for everyone to position themselves in relation to everyone else. For instance RamZPaul is out reminding everyone that he does not like Richard Spencer, using Charlottesville as a jumping off point.
Having had some time to think about my own range of responses over the last 48 hours or so, I think the most important take away is that a whole lot of people who never heard of the alt-right, now know there is another team on the field. We forget that most people don’t know Antifa from Auntie May. Over the last 48 hours a lot of normal people are looking up these groups they see on TV. Despite the media barrage, most normal people are repulsed by these left-wing groups.
That said, you can be sure that many of the CivNats and Buckley Cons were rushing to their nearest liberal and begging them for forgiveness. Poor old Gavin McInnes wore himself out telling his friends on the Left that his PoofBerry group disavowed everyone they were told to disavow. Obviously I enjoy mocking this more than I should, but he has a big audience. He and the other accommodationist types have a lot of influence and they are using this to fund raise and hurt our thing.
You learn more from failure than success, but success does offer lessons. The Friday night torch light march into the park was a smashing success. It was clever and original. It also showed a high level of discipline. That was the sort of thing that you do when you know the system is willing to use any means necessary to stop you. You get creative and use their weight against them. The cops and politicians did not see it coming so they could not get their goons out of the flophouses to smash it up.
In retrospect, the alt-right should have simply cancelled the Saturday event, leaving the cops to figure out how to blame the inevitable Antifa rioting on the alt-right. That would have left them guessing about the sort of people they are facing. The important thing about the Left is they believe their own bullshit. That’s why they put so much effort into forcing their enemies to play the role designed for them. Outfoxing them and not playing that role is the best psychological weapon that can be deployed.
That’s not what happened and it is a good lesson for our side. The cops lied about their intentions and the politicians lied too. Cops are mostly guys who like pushing people around and they are not giving up that privilege for anything. They would mace a nursery school if their bosses ordered it. In all future dealings with the cops, the underlying assumption must be that the cops are lying. Security needs to be designed with the assumption that the cops are working with the other side.
There’s another lesson. The whole point of the event was to unite all the factions of the Right, including the idiotic Nazi larpers and KKK clowns. I get it. They were there for you from the beginning. Not punching right is a big deal. I get it, but the alt-right needs to understand that these micro groups do vastly more damage to the cause than any benefit gained from unity. The truth of life is you can’t save everyone. Some people get left behind and the Nazi larpers have to be sidelined.
I can hear the objections from some readers, but here’s the question. Do you want to win or do you want to be ideologically pure? If it is the former, it means getting the Chad and Stacy types to come to your side. The middle-aged guy with a mortgage and kids is not rallying to a knucklehead waving a Nazi flag. Pleasing the handful of yesterday men costs tens of thousands of recruits. You can’t win that way. If the alt-right makes ideological purity into a suicide pact, they are done.
There is always someone who will say “the media will call us Nazis anyway, so why worry about it?” This is loser talk. If the media screams “Nazi” and they only have images of clean-cut, well dressed guys being polite and smart, it just reminds everyone that the media is full of liars. If on the other hand the media screams “Nazi” and you’re out waving Nazi flags, the public will believe the media. That’s how it works. Blaming the media for your failure to grasp this reality is just an excuse.
Finally, the main lesson here is that the people in charge are not going to leave the field without a fight. They will fight to the last man. The last few weeks, there has been a whiff of triumphalism on the alt-right, leading up to this event. Listening to Mike Enoch last week, he sounded like he was winning. Richard Spencer was posting his version of the The Port Huron Statement. Charlottesville was a good reminder that we are just at that early days of the great culture war of the 21st century.
I’m fond of saying that it is a long war. This is the long twilight struggle of our people, so learning how to take a punch, even the self-inflicted one, is important. The people organizing and trying to build organizations are not professional organizers. They are learning on the fly, so that means making mistakes. Success counts on the leaders learning from mistakes and the rank and file holding them to it. The leaders need to get better and we need to get better.
Tomorrow, the struggle continues.
“The middle-aged guy with a mortgage and kids is not rallying to a knucklehead waving a Nazi flag.”
Yes. There is a difference between not being overly concerned at being called “Nazi” by people with zero credibility, and letting Nazis (or provocateurs playing Nazi) set your agenda and populate the videos.
Any such event as Unite the Right should specify in all flyers, “Nazi and KKK are NOT invited, and if any show up they will be persuaded to leave or to join the Antifa side, which is where they belong.”
Nazis are good for one thing only: the “canary in the coal mine” where free speech is concerned. As long as Nazis are tolerated on forums, you can be sure you can speak freely. Most people will simply ignore their nuttery in those venues, and they do not keep any serious new recruits away. But they have negative utility in external events.
Fine, we get rid of the the “nazis”, but please talk to your neighbors and friends. You’ll find out pretty quickly they want absolutely nothing to do with this cause. They bought into the liberal media propaganda. Nobody is joining us.
Sad to hear Rush Limbaugh is now calling us nazis. Amazing to see these so-called conservative talk show hosts now turning against us. Feel stupid buying Glenn Beck’s book a couple years ago. Just more fake media.
Not sure why so many think this was a defeat for the alt-right.
This was the Boston Massacre in terms of propaganda/ radicalization, except all the deaths were on the other side. Rush Limbaugh is equating us with nazis, but at least he is calling attention to the fact that it was and always is antifa starting the violence, that the Leftist PTB supports them & works off it. Major immanentizing of the eschaton happened.
Funny how the left can harbor any deviant, crackpot or felon yet the right has a handful of misguided souls that we must purge from our ranks immediately !
Isn’t that playing by their rules ?
The “normies” aren’t joining us. They don’t want to hear it, they don’t care. Close ranks with our Brothers. Educate when possible, prepare for battle.
Evil Comes This Way
No.
The Left is where the Left is because they have a organization, enforce discipline and dogma. They spent 60 years getting here. As for the contradictions, the Left is run like cult. The dynamics are identical and the follower blind themselves to them.
You fail to understand we are trying to build a movement and recruit people – normies who are middle-class and even upper middle-class to our cause. We need them more than the gun nuts. You do not do this by tolerating a bunch of stupid, vicious wannabe Nazis in our ranks.
Image means a lot in our society, so acting stupid or looking like a extra out of Mad Max or a Nazi war movie is out of the question.
You want to make the alt_right as acceptable as joining the NRA or a fraternal order and you do that by kicking out the trash, fight promoters and lunatics. We don’t even have a outreach program. Talk about ill prepared.
Right now we don’t have any organization outside of AmRen. But it’s not enough. Foolish rallies in enemy territory don’t cut it. We need a nationwide organization which chapters in every state – like a cross between a fraternal order and the NRA(used as organizational and fund raising models)
well said, I’ve found the whole Nazi thing becomes an impossible hill to climb when talking with normies.
well said,
it’s funny “listening” to people talk about the great nationalist tsunami that is building, as if it is something they can strategize about, or game plan for. an awful lot of people seem under the delusion that *they* can somehow redirect the flow of history by decisions they make or don’t make.
there is a societal pressure building up in the USA; of that there isn’t any argument. given that, either the underlying source of heat abates, or there is a traumatic rupture.
I won’t disavow anyone fighting against the genocidal monsters of the left. But we do need better imagery:
https://anepigone.blogspot.com/2017/08/deus-vult.html
I think the alt-right just died a very quick and relatively painless death.
The yahoos won.
NAZI’S a Right Wing group? We all know the National SOCIALISTS were as LEFT as they come. There are NO NAZI’s who are Alt-Right. The NAZI Party supported Hillary. They should be disavowed by ANYONE on the right.
Evil, manipulative vanguard leaders…clueless, ignorant followers…and Americans, both white and non-white afraid to fight them.
If someone, for whatever reason, wants to walk down the street with a Nazi Flag, or a rainbow flag, I don’t think its in Spencer’s power to stop it. And of course the (((media))) will use that photo.
A positive outcome could b the AR getting more experienced with lawfare. I know the cops where I live are afraid of Sovereign Citizens retaliating with lawfare, even the local FBI held a seminar and the cops not to interact with the Sovereign Citizens.
A nice riot will get those DNC servers out of the headlines.
I’ll just leave this here.
http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1502667845886.webm
http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1502666291103.webm
https://twitter.com/barnes_law/status/896520500339331076
The driver was ambushed and then pursued in a city where the cops were deliberately told to stand down, and where people had been threatening to kill him all weekend.
Read all of this, watch all of this slowly, and take it fully on board. I wish to hell our national leaders would, instead of merely reacting to enemy agitprop.
ZMan: “Some people get left behind and the Nazi larpers have to be sidelined.”
Isn’t that what Gavin is doing?
When the New England Patriots cut a player, are they trying to please the Left? Obviously not. They are making their team better. That’s what I’m saying about the Nazi flagmen. They are hurting the team so they either drop the flags or find another corner to stand on.
Gavin and the CivNats are trying to cozy up to the Left so they can be the Official Edgy Guys of the Left™. He’s also pro-gay, pro-tranny, pro-black, etc, etc. If the Left says he has to be pro-suicide, he’s jumping off a building. His thing is entirely defined by the people he claims to oppose. And let’s face it. He’s just trying make money off this. The PoofBerries are his vanity fan club.
I want the crowd that is sympathetic to us, but afraid to go beyond Captain Buttplug, to feel like they can start walking our way. When they look over and see a retard waving a Nazi flag, they start thinking that maybe even Buttplug is too risky.
Exactly no one sells their product by making their prospective customers feel ashamed or disgusted. To 99% of Americans, Nazi symbols do exactly that. If we cannot come to terms with that reality, then we’re wasting our time as we are too stupid to amount to anything.
Got it. Thanks.
anyone waving a naz flag is a paid informant or mentaly ill. usually both. trying to stop left win insanity has nothing to do wit a failed dictator from 72 years ago.
Well , Charlottesville went as terry mcauliffe and the other democrats planned it. it was a trap and the alt right stepped into it.
This was clearly and cleverly planned . spencer couldn’t be more clearly an agent of the left. Who hasn’t noticed the pattern from the san Diego trump rally, Berkley riots, Chicago protests, and now this. Quit getting baited into these traps.
they are all the same , a right wing person plans an event in a heavily democratic area. Antifa make plans to show up in numbers and beat everyone who shows up. The police(under the democratic police chief) say ” we will maintain order” .
the democratic governor, mayor and political leaders , democrats all, say words about keeping calm.
the event arrives, and the police are there in huge numbers. the right wing people show up and police crowd control move them into a confined are a. antifa , la Raza, and/or BLM thugs surround them.
The police then give a ” Disperse ” order and start moving the right wing people out into the streets to be attacked by the left wing thugs. Men women and girls are beaten.
The huge line of police look on from a few feet away in detached amusement. They have a ” do not break rank” order. That order is used when using tactics that require coordinated action . to prevent them from becoming separated and disorganized.
In this case it’s to prevent officers from following their conscience and intervening individually to stop the violence by the thugs that the democratic politicians want.
The press then leads with ” right wing Violence at rally” Right wingers are hunted down and prosecuted for any and all acts of self defense.
when are these people going to learn that you cannot meet in an area where the police are controlled by democrats?
I think Charlottesville was a major setback, not to the so-called alt-right, but to the quietly angry, frustrated Americans who put Trump in office. They’re at work today hoping that the guy from Ohio was a liberal or at least a mental case who was not really a white supremacist. This is sad.
Whatever the guy was or is, even if it turns out he was provoked or running from an attack, the damage has been done. Big Media, including Fox, are in a feeding frenzy. The The Civil Rights Division will descend. Conservative, Inc. was given a gift. They have a hobby horse on which to ride Trump out of town and to regain their favored lap dog position in Washington. The image of the Nazi brand and a car driving into a crowd of protesters will not quickly subside.
nothing in VA remotely involves Trump. or his supporters. it’s all just more media noise.
I of course agree, but Big Media and Cult big shots don’t. LeBron James and the CEO of Merck just blamed Trump. This will go on for some time.
Who is lebron james?
I’m not so sure about your evaluation.
What is the civil rights division going to find, anyway? That Nazis today have no right to protest, unlike the Nazis who famously marched through Skokie, Illinois decades ago? What changed?
Hmmm. Well, I know what changed. The Nazis today aren’t helping the left, unlike the Nazis of yore, who were a wedge aiding the leftist project to fundamentally transform American society.
But Alinsky teaches us that we should make an enemy live up to their own rules. Thus, by precedent, this particular bunch of Nazis should absolutely have been allowed to march.
Civil rights, yo. Of course the bootlicking suckups of the gop immediately dance as massa tells them to, attacking Trump and making demands that the badthinkers go away again. Of course.
But it’s all nonsense, because this wasn’t even a Nazi march of violence. It was a peaceful march, attacked by antifa thugs, with the willful acquiescence of the local government.
What happens when the details leak out? It’s already starting. I’ve read today the cops were ordered to stand down so antifa could club people, etc.
This reminds me of the usual media frenzy. They think they’ve found the story that will win them permanent victory- e.g. Trayvon Martin- then as the truth comes out the narrative slowly collapses, leaving yet more people loathing a press that has once again lied to them.
We’ll see, I suppose.
So let me get this straight;
The right hates when they are lumped in with nazis and klansmen, but cops would mace a nursery school if ordered to.
I guess it’s ok to lump all police together .
I read several outlets, and have just recently started posting. Whether it’s here or WRSA, the recurring meme of “all cops bad”, is simply going to alienate a VERY large contingent of your readers.
It’s old.
But to be fair, it is your blog, and you can say and believe whatever you want. It’s simply asinine that you, of all people ZMan, would fall into that trap.
The podcasts are excellent. I listen in my squad between calls.
When you paint with a broad brush, you sometimes make a mess.
No, not all cops are sociopaths, but you know a lot of them are and a lot are just time serving stooges. As is the case with everything in government, what works in law enforcement is done by a small minority that manages to overcome the rest of the blob.
The cop who writes as Jack Dunphy wrote of this a few years ago. The percentage of patrolman or detectives who do the important or difficult work is 20%, which he believes is the same in any industry. The people who study and test for rank are of the 80%. They know they do not have talent to excel at their job, and they have the time to study. That’s your brass.
By Their actions you will know Them.
The cops and the Muslims have the same problem: the “good” ones know who the “bad” ones are, and yet they do nothing to stop it. This makes them co-conspirators, and equally guilty. Their fate is the direct result of their lifestyle choices, unless they wise up and quickly…
” The cops lied about their intentions and the politicians lied too. Cops are mostly guys who like pushing people around and they are not giving up that privilege for anything. They would mace a nursery school if their bosses ordered it. In all future dealings with the cops, the underlying assumption must be that the cops are lying. Security needs to be designed with the assumption that the cops are working with the other side. Charlottesville is the proof of it.”
Zman, a well reasoned article on the weekend and wise insight into lessons that should be learned from it. The highlighted section about cops bears remembering. The pattern of ‘inaction’ continues. Yet we never hear of any ‘officer’ pushback towards their ‘betters’ No anonymous grumblings from inside the ‘Job’. No resignations. Leaks of plans/orders. No Union Grievances.
Hmmmmmm funny that….
My minor contribution for future planning is a link to an exhaustive review of Lefty/ProgTard books on Organizing.
https://status451.com/2017/07/11/radical-book-club-the-decentralized-left/#comments
Haven’t read any of the books but the reviewer did a ‘shit-ton’ of work coming up with his post.
MrZ, you went off track when you joined these bozos at that conference.. It wasn’t that long ago that you rejected the concept of a honkie paradise.
Come back from the edge … And stop this talk of your kampf.
Here’s what you need to know about the leadership of the Republican Party at the local level:
They do NOT care who is in power in government.
They DO care who runs the county party.
They DO care who gets to go to state conventions.
They DO care, in Presidential years, who gets to go to the national convention.
They DO care about not being embarrassed when they go to Rotary, or Toastmasters, or the country club.
They have no concern about the Kulturkampf. They’re aware of it because they hear people talk about it, but have no interest in participating.
In my county, during the last election, the county party did everything they could to subvert the Trump campaign. Not because they disapproved of Trump, but because they disapproved of the people running his campaign locally and were afraid they’d emerge in a position to take control of the county party.
They completely ignore school board races because they’re not glamorous, and never mind that the school boards are actively promoting Leftist, Islamic, anti-Western, anti-white indoctrination.
They support “Fiscal Conservatives” because they write “(R)” after their name, and never mind that a “Fiscal Conservatives” is nothing more than an extreme Leftist who finally master the life skill of balancing her own checkbook.
Too many people seem to think that Trumps election was the winning blow, and forget that it took over a hundred years of dedicated political action in every sphere of human experience for the feral human Left to get things this fucked up. We have to plan for a campaign at least as long. Forget the cucks and fund raising leaches. Organize locally, start electing alt.right people to school boards (while avoiding the alt.right label), and the winning follows.
the gop is toxic at every level. don’t vote for them, ever. your vote for the gop is a vote for continuing the slide. kill the gop, then vote for the party that replaces it.
It is sad to see that the Commonwealth of Virginia has turned into the New Jersey of the South. If the country breaks up, as I dearly hope it will, the Federal employees who infest the E. half of the state should be burned out and run out.
I’m not remotely convinced this was a loss for the alt-right. The dead and injured were all taking part in an unauthorized, violent counter-protest with Antifa and Anarchists. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. No apologies necessary.
The proper response to the collusion between the Governor, Mayor, Antifa, and the police is to start scheduling these rallies every weekend, nationwide, focusing on blue cities in blue states. The MSM can only maintain the narrative for so long. It will crumble as blue state officials repeatedly deny permits, instruct police to stand down, and allow Antifa to run wild. Eventually even people like Rod Dreher will catch on.
Sounds like quality entertainment, for sure. I just wonder who’s going to fill in for me at work…
“If on the other hand the media screams “Nazi” and you’re out waving Nazi flags, the public will believe the media.”
Half the time, it’s leftist infiltrators or Deep State operatives out there waving Nazi flags. They will stand around the periphery of an event and make themselves available for photo ops. The dopes watching TV only see what the media masters want them to see. Our side can disavow all it wants, the media will not carry the story.
I thought Breitbart’s lead story today did a good job of describing the event, as did David Cole at Taki.
If the success of this thing in the long run depends upon the reputation rehabilitation of Nazis or Klansmen, it ain’t never going to happen, purity spiral or not. The optics won’t allow it, and both of these movements are anchored to historical losers.
Perhaps some time should be spent on how the left Interacts/coordinates with the Earth First!/Che Guevara/BLM folks for guidance.
This may be a stupid question, or a personal blind spot, but can someone explain something to me please? Why would the police side with the progressive left? This is the same ideology that has been embracing BLM and the War on Police at the expense of law enforcement officers everywhere, for years. Sometimes, at the cost of their lives. Why would they be stepping back from at least maintaining a semblance of order and preventing violence directed toward supporters of a friendly administration, one that expresses support for cops explicitly?
I’m not getting this – it seems to be a reported feature or theme from a number of Antifa/Alt-R encounters in various municipalities nationwide, cops calmly chewing their gum as they watch individuals getting targeted by running mobs. Are the police generally sympathetic to progressive’s fondness for mayhem?
Second: Every one of these things is covered up with photo journalists. Where are the pictures of the attacks on peaceful Alt-R demonstrators/ Where are the clubbings, the urine / feces attacks, etc. I see some fairly low-grade stuff here and there – egg in the hair or small, bloody cuts, etc. And I see lots of pictures of dozens of photojournalists, taking pictures. If we’re covered up with cameras, where are the pictures of the actual violence precipitated? I don’t doubt it’s there, just wondering about its context.
The progressive side seems to enjoy pretty terrific support on the ground. Professional grade signs and placards all ready, chartered bus transportation, training in dirty tricks. To fight this effectively will require a much better use of intelligence, in both senses of the word.
Their instructions came from the top, which in this case is the major and the governor. They are just, well, following orders. When the choice if between the paycheck and pension, and right and wrong, you see the result around the country. When it doesn’t happen that way the power structure is not yet far left.
Here’s a thought. Financially tie up all the leadership involved (the mayor, the governor, the police chief, the city itself) in lawsuits and litigation. Not to win the cases, but to make the process the punishment. If they choose to take a side under the color of authority, and things get out of hand, litigate them to the ends of the earth. Make their lives permanently miserable. They have a civic duty to keep the peace, and they failed to even try. Make them suffer.
Financially destroy Charlottesville and salt the financial remains. Let it stand as a lesson to other civic leaders.
Yep. Especially in conjunction with fully educating the potential jury pool that their job is to deliver Justice, regardless of judges’ instructions, or the “law”. In other words, when you’re on a jury, hold out for the good guys, and fry the bad guys, no matter the legal shenanigans of the shysters in the courtroom…
First off, most politicians, especially those “progressives” who are on the left, are facilitators for the Globalist New World Order. Secondly, the police are THEIR enforcers and protectors and take orders from them. Their goal is to destroy what is left of the Constitution and the republic, and the people who support it.
Like it or not, we are in an actual war for our survival. At the present time, it is a slow-moving wave which is gaining ground, mostly through deception and stealth. It will not be long before that slow wave becomes a tsunami of genocidal destruction unless We the People stand our ground and divert its direction over the Cliff of Truth.
Die standing with patriots of the republic at your side, or die kneeling to to the Communist anarchists with a gun to your head.
Prepare the Way!
Prepare the Way!
There are a few easy things to do:
1. Control the imagery – announce that swastikas and white hoods are forbidden, and confiscate them if anyone pulls them out. Make sure everyone knows this is policy, and make sure everyone agrees to confiscate these items if anyone near them pulls them out.
2. If anyone is giving the Nazi salute pull their arms down and then escort them away. Have designated people to be the escorts, with radios so they can be contacted. The escorts need to be competent to take these people out of the event and keep them out.
And that is pretty much it. Since so much of the media is visual, deny the visuals.
This_!
The dumbasses on the left get paid to go to the usual LARP only to discover the right is using live ammo. Expect a massive breakdown and stampedes in the safe spaces.
What concerns me is all the attention of the Nazi meme by the media with no one paying attention to the socialism/communism aspects of the Left. Seems like a method to have the undecided choose the Left in preference in lieu being branded as pro-Nazi. For myself, I choose neither of these two extreme binary options being forced upon me.
The thing about reading out nazis is that would never work in an organization that is decentralized and the alt right will be decentralized by necessity until the left loses enough institutional power that being centralized is possible. In other words, no time soon.
So the critiques in that regard have to be shelved for more pertinent ones. I think they could do better throttling the focus. One place can be primed, four demonstrations at diffirent locations makes the dance of civil obstruction more difficult. Messages are created by repetition. More voices and fewer locations should be repeats.
That being said, I don’t think the media blitz is anything but a win. No press is bad press for a marginalized group that can easily be ignored. Punitive political wars are coming one way or the other. They need exactly zero such events to justify crack downs and double standards.
The moral of the story is that the alt right and alt lite figures making hay over this as a total failure should be scrutinized. Agitprop coming from insiders is a hallmark of left subversion.
True. The Nazi Government was a poly-anarchy, where all departments competed with one and another for resources and political power. Hitler permitted it to keep them at each other’s throats than seek to overthrow him. That is one of the reasons German intel never could figure out when and where D-Day would occur. Canaris wouldn’t play ball, and vice versa, with all the other intel agencies to share information. Everyone protected their own turf. But in time Himmler or Goering or Canaris would win out, had theThird Reich continued. They would have fought each other with their own private armies.
I certainly call it a win. The number of people who showed up demonstrated the alt-right has graduated from “fringe movement”. We’re significant enough that the governor saw fit to call out the National Guard.
Secondly, it was significant enough that the President himself was forced to make a statement, and while it’s still unfeasible to support us openly, he did the next best thing: he declined to make us the whipping boy.
Third, the large number of people who showed are only the ones prepared to make their affiliation public. We’re still largely a covert movement. There are many times the number of people who aren’t making their sympathies public. As a political force, we’ve arrived.
While the leftist woman getting killed was unfortunate, I doubt it’s going to hurt us in the long run. In the ’60s leftist organizations deliberately murdered any number of people through bombings and other assaults, and they still rose to power. Unfortunately I don’t think that will be the last death. Radical transfers of power are messy, even in democracies. Perhaps particularly in democracies.
If killing continues it will bury the movement in the Long run, unless of course it is a leftist movement.
The differences between the alt-Reich and the much more violent leftist movements of the last century is that they have always been accepted by the mainstream left. Those murderers who bombed police, robbed banks and burned schools received money, jobs, and support at all levels right from the get go. Violent terrorists were hired by NYU. Others were directly funded by the Episcopal church. One wound up as a mentor to our latest leftist president.
Everybody in the bifactional ruling party carried water for them. Nobody will hire the guy driving the car regardless of whether he can find a sympathetic judge to give him a slap on the wrist. No CBS special of the week will lionize his struggle. No future president will ask him to ghost write his autobiography nor invite him to the white house.
The entire world finds Nazi larping silly at best if not actively distasteful. But that’s not the issue. The issue is that there’s no church, foundation, political party, or college supporting this overly or covertly.
There’s a world of difference between the leftist radicals of the twentieth century and any of the right.
Consider for a moment the aftermath of World War II. Germany and Japan lay in ruins. Most of the nations that the armies of those two countries had overrun and brutalized would have happily seen them ground into dust and wiped off the planet. But – a funny thing happened. Under AMERICAN leadership – under MacArthur in Japan, and via the Marshall Plan in Europe, the nations of Japan and Germany were rebuilt into global economic powerhouses – via a process that must have – at least initially – horrified the neighboring countries that they had invaded and subjugated.
But – in the long run – America;s magnanimous treatment of its erstwhile foes paid huge dividends. Even as they became industrial and technological giants – and even as their “defense forces” developed into highly professional, capable (and well-equipped) combatant elements – Japan and Germany diligently refrained from confronting or intimidating and other nations. Indeed, it took enormous international pressure for either country to deploy any of its troops outside their land borders or territorial waters.
Now – just how is it that this outcome came to occur? To put it mildly, it was highly unusual to the point of being virtually unprecedented for the victors of a brutal, genocidal war to treat its crushed opponent with respect, and to actually and actively rebuild its former enemy – not merely to a level of unremarkable and marginal self-sufficiency – but to levels of global economic leadership.
Well, as a former US Army Infantry Officer who spent a lot of time studying world history, I think that I know the answer. The brilliantly successful outcomes for the peaceful nations of Germany and Japan over the past 70+ years is a direct legacy of the United States’ post war experiences following the US Civil War, 1861-1865. The aftermath of that conflict was also virtually unprecedented in world history. Notwithstanding the brutal and destructive nature of the US Civil War, once the victorious and the defeated commanders met at Appomattox Courthouse – with Grant demanding, and then accepting, the Unconditional Surrender of Lee’s Confederate forces – and extraordinary thing happened. To the utter shock of the Union forces, the officers and cavalrymen of the defeated army were permitted to depart the battlefield with their horses, and most of the Southern troops were permitted to retain their personal firearms. The North did not proceed to pillage the South, nor were most of the leaders of the Southern cause prosecuted and imprisoned (or executed) as had frequently occurred in similar historical incidences (with certain exceptions such as Major Wirz, the Commandant of the POW prison compound at Camp Sumter in Andersonville, Georgia, who was hanged for war crimes).
Indeed, the post Civil War Reconstruction Period in America was a marvel of national rebuilding and recovery – and was also the period where cities towns, villages, academic institutions, and highways were granted freedom to erect memorials to their honored dead, and their top Generals.
The long-term result, in America, was a strong and prosperous southern USA – which has throughout the last 150 years contributed the majority of the US Military’s officers and fighting men. I propose that this outcome – viewed as the legacy of honorable and magnanimous treatment of a defeated foe – was the inspiration for the rebuilding of Japan and Germany following WWII.
So ….. what? Well, the Black Supremacists and the Antifa terrorists desire to now – 150+ years after the direct combatants shook hands and made amends – erase and obliterate the legacy of the defeated military forces of the Confederacy. The heritage that catapulted America into the role of singular global superpower is to these low-life cretins a personal affront. Well, suck it up losers. What Made America Great between 1865 and 1995 was that same heritage – and the slow poisoning of the well for the past twenty years has been painful for patriotic Americans to observe.
Robert E. Lee vs George Soros, or Nancy Pelosi, or Maxine Waters. Well, I know where I’d put my money………..
Your knowledge of the War Between the States and Reconstruction is shockingly ignorant. The result is an unconscious arrogance of assumption on your part.
Relatively. He said relatively.
The South was not postwar Berlin or East Germany.
Interesting:
http://www.amerika.org/politics/charlottesville-the-alt-right-emerges-victorious/
It should be clear to everyone now that politicians and the media are not going to allow anyone on the Right to practice their 1st Amendment rights. That is the symptom of the disease. The de facto abrogation of the Constitution is the real cancer, and that speaks to the seriousness of the current conflict. The Left will not rest until the hive is pure, and the Right will not back down until Constitutional governance is re-established. As time goes on, we have less and less common ground between us.
I think we need to answer an important question first.
Do we believe that this will be resolved with the ballot box or the bullet box?
If the ballot box then the Nazis and others might well be a problem. Trump got elected of course but that doesn’t seem to be going too well given the sabotage and internal dissent his administration is facing.
If the bullet box then we will will need a dedicated and determined minority of fighters when things get frisky. The Nazis will fight which is more than can be said for Gavin McInnes and his allies. We will need the center to remain neutral or inert in such an event.
Another point is this. The Nazis can play the bad cop white advocates to our good cop advocacy while preparing normies to mentally consider the idea that whites have rights as well.
The left doesn’t denounce or disavow their extremists and I don’t see why we should ignore that given that they have been kicking our asses for half a century or more. Seems to work for them, but then they aren’t hothouse flowers, at least politically.
At the moment I don’t think we are so rich in allies that we should be casting anyone into the outer darkness.
“That said, you can be sure that many of the CivNats and Buckley Cons were rushing to their nearest liberal and begging them for forgiveness.”
You misspelled “blowing”
cuckservatives get druk on manberry juice
Zman,
The Alt-Reich (Nazi / KKK faction) can also be addressed by having them improve their symbology. The entire alt-right needs to do that at any rate. Symbols and symbolism is important and powerful. The alt-reich coming up with their own symbols and moving past nazi Germany removes a lot of their negative political cache.
As Vox has pointed out, literal neo-nazi’s in Sweden, the Swedish Democrats, became the largest party simply by getting rid of the nazi imagery and developing their own symbols.
The alt-reich will not ever be the dominant faction of the overall alt-right but eliminating their net negative political cache also doesn’t require an internal civil war.
At the same time the alt-right needs to develop imagery and symbols as well. Easily recognized symbols that evoke emotion are powerful and act subconsciously. Imagery demonstrating & inspiring power, discipline, and hope will bring many to the alt-right ranks and solidify those who are already there.
No, just get rid of the scum. They are a shit magnet
They are a insult to men who fought and died in WWII. There still some veterans and survivors of that war still alive. like my mother and uncles(who stormed the beaches at Normandy June 6th). People who defending those scumbag larpers make a mockery of men like my uncle father and my mother.
Hell your precious Nazis wiped out my mothers side of the family, I detest them and their supporters with every fiber of my being.
The alt-right either cleans up it’s act,and finds better leadership than the clown car posse that it has now or it’s going to get wiped out by the MSM and establishment.
Just calm down, it should now be clear to all of our cat ladies, the altright is NOT the tea party.
Look Nazis suck we all get that but don’t go all History Channel Hallowed Be WW2 on us
You do realize that our biggest ally was the USSR under Joseph Stalin who also committed mass genocide and as soon as we were exhausted proceed to enslave Europe and tried to destroy its cultures as thoroughly as that fuck-wit Austrian did
And before you talk about how much the good guys we were , consider the civilians in Germany and Japan we burned alive
In the end three Socialists powers went to war , the US (Democratic Socialist) the USSR (Internal Socialism) and Germany (National Socialist) , it was a push. Hitler defeated which was good but a huge chunk of Europe and the world enslaved by our ally
We don’t get to claim the moral high ground because after our failure to actually rid the world of evil there wasn’t. one.
Oh and before you bring up your ancestors, nearly every American who isn’t a recent immigrant either lost someone or had someone fight or flee the Nazis
Its not that special
1. There were plenty of polite, well-dressed fit young men in Charlottesville. THe press just didn’t showcase them as much as the LARPers.
2. There is a valuable place for Nazis in the movement. That place is to push the Overton window ever rightward & to make the merely fascists look like moderates by comparison. However, it might be true that that place is not necessarily sharing the same public stage as the Alt Right.
3. The Left has gone so anti-male, anti-white that young white men are going to be Alt-Right no matter how badly the Alt-Right figureheads screw things up. When the other side is saying “white men are evil & disposable” and the alt right is saying “young white men are good & valuable” there just isn’t a contest.
The only question is whether getting all the young white men will be enough.
This event will prove to the country how violent and hate filled the alt right is
Imagine being a WWII vet who stormed Normandy and tore down Nazi banners only to see “patriotic Americans” toting swastikas in 2017
This is the beginning of the end. The people support antifa
The violence began after your people showed up. Fuck off.
I take this comment as either an attempt at humor or an astonishingly bad attempt at trolling.
But I’d just like to point out, for the record, that if the people actually supported antifa they’d also have supported that heavily promoted movement for the 99%, whatever it was.
I can’t recall the name of that peculiar set of astroturfers, but I do recall watching weatherman Hal Roker wish them good luck, on national television. I can only guess at how much airtime the rest of the leftist media expended attempting to turn this particular set of losers into heroes.
Sad. Now the left has a swarm of silly thugs who think that there will be no consequences for their violence, ever, because they have masks. And bike locks. And an abundance of idiocy.
Good luck with that, antifa.
The only support violent thugs deserve is on the end of a noose…
Ok one thing. If you want ordinary women and men to stand with you then you have to define how women in the modern world belong and stand with you. That is to be found in the natural truth of what unites us not what divides us.
A good strategy moving forward would be to assume anyone agitating for taking action in the form of violence is a government informant or agent.
The Filth are not, and never will be your friend
https://www.thestar.com/news/2007/08/21/police_accused_of_using_provocateurs_at_summit.html
Even Andrew Anglin told his readers not to show up with Nazi flags and go a-larping all over God’s green earth. He asked for people not to dress up, to simply be dressed well.
I think we can both tolerate Nazis, and find ways to enforce group discipline on people who show up for demonstrations. A decision is made beforehand how people are to look and what to bring. If they don’t they are asked to leave. If they don’t leave they are considered to be counter demonstrators and treated appropriately.
If this means vetting people and having smaller demonstrations, so be it. If folks want the movement to be successful they will either learn to comply, or have to let it die.
This cuts the Gordian knot pretty well: allow all allies to participate, but keep a tight rein on optics. No Buckleyite purges of the extremist wings, but an agreement that all who take part should present an acceptable face to those we are trying to win over.
I think Nazi LARPing is stupid–why would you associate yourself with a failed European nationalist movement from the last century?–but there’s really no way to dissociate ourselves from them without heading onto the slippery slope that has brought “conservatism” to its current dreadful state. Leave then be, but tell them to leave the swastikas at home.
This post is pitch perfect.
Agreed.
The way the police have been soft-pedaling their responses to leftist attacks, it might be a good idea to have someone(s) with some video equipment, preferably from a nearby roof or high window, to give an overall view of events.
If it hadn’t been for a few lucky seconds of video, Stickman would probably have wound up in jail.
I would suggest, rather than stationing people on roofs or other high places (because they can be mistaken for snipers), to use video-camera-equipped drones.
Another thing about the Nazi issue is that it has been political gospel since the WWII generation that Nazi=bad. The younger generations don’t have this same connection, and I’m seeing that a lot of them consider “Nazi” little more than a strawman of the wacko left.
You have a point. My generation (late Boomer) still had parents, uncles, grandparents who faced off with the Nazis. . Personally, one of my uncles, an armored officer, made the great sweep into southern Germany with Pattons Third Army. They liberated multiple sub camps of Mauthausen and labor camps. He married my great aunt, a Polish girl who was a slave laborer and one of only three members of her extended family to survive the war. Growing up, this shit was real and tangible. Now, since history is not even taught, “Nazi” is a label applied to anyone you don’t agree with and/or some quaint looking footage that shows up on the History Channel during ratings sweeps. Tuned into some of the live feeds while doing some work in the office yesterday and saw multiple instances of the “bros” spouting “Hitler was right”, “didn’t finish the job”. That sort of crap. Will have no truck with that sort of bullshit.
Are these people Nazi’s though, or just people for whom the word doesn’t mean much to them?
Any clown who uses the word “Nazi” to refer to the Wehrmacht is too ignorant to waste time on.
The “Nazis” never made up more than 10% of the German population.
If my great uncle were alive, he’d be happy to tell you about facing off with fanatical Waffen-SS armored units in a thin skinned Sherman or what it was like to walk into a slave labor camp. Those were “Nazis”, shithead. By the way, I don’t believe actual party membership execeeded 6-7% of population with the active cohort being much lower, if you actually read anything written on de-Nazification efforts, many held party membership as requirement for certain jobs. But save your liver excretions for somebody else.
Yes… and there seem to be many prominent in the Alt-Right who would say your uncle is lying for the Jews, because there were no labor camps and Mauthausen was a resort. Sadly some who say this are not trolling but really believe this garbage, and that sort of nonsense will marginalize the Alt-Right.
Marginalized? Nope.
The Holocaust happened in the middle of the last century, to people who had nothing to do with me.
Sad. But so was the ethnic cleansing of Christians from Iraq, which happened under the guns of the US army during the Iraq War, and the mass murders in SE Asia after the left engineered the destruction of South Vietnam.
Both of those happened more recently with vastly more direct responsibility accruing to the United States, yet somehow the mainstream assumes they have no impact at all with today’s electorate.
Yet have a few cranks display their ignorance about certain history- oh no, the whole movement will be marginalized.
Again, nope. I have no interest in associating with dimwits who think the Nazis were cool. But the reason why the Alt-right exists in the first place is because of the relentless failure by the so-called mainstream right.
Until that changes, conservative inc will continue to shed influence to people willing to show up in the struggle against the left, even if those people are ignorant tools.
Where on the spectrum would you place people who don’t necessarily think Nazis are “cool”, but think that watching progressives have their head explode when shown a picture of a frog in a Wehrmacht uniform is “cool”?
I’m fine with anything that will make progs froth at the mouth, if only because I know that they’re fine with anything that will harm me- up to and including murder.
Frogs in Wermacht uniforms are an obvious attempt at humor and trolling. But as I’ve already implied, I’m not interested in Holocaustianity.
I’m continually expected to accept endless nastiness aimed at me and my values, yet I’m also expected to get outraged on command when someone says or does something the left doesn’t like.
Like wearing a Nazi uniform, or dressing up a cartoon frog.
I’m not having this anymore. They can live up to their own rules- where every bit of nasty is ok- or they can eff off.
Regardless, I’m not worried about pictures of frogs, because I’m a grown-up.
All good points, xennady.
Thanks. Pardon me if my crankiness seemed to be aimed at you, because it wasn’t.
But I have known personally people who have had family members killed in three separate genocides, none of which appear to concern the US government or mainstream American political establishment one iota.
I’ve grown pretty effing tired of hearing about the One True Genocide, the only one that matters, because it wasn’t.
Gotta say, “Holocaustianity” is perfect- just the term I was looking for.
Boy, am I ever an apostate now.
PS- even so, let us remember the wisdom taught by our great Lord of the Dark Art, el baboso: Marketing. It’s the marketing that wins.
See the astonishing success of Holocaustianity, and learn.
This term is from Vox Day, I should mention.
“Nazi” was short for National Socialist Party, which currently has 69 congressional members.
in case you care about being correct: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (acronym: NSDAP; English: National-Socialist German Workers’ Party
Z Man;
Everybody must remember at all times that there *will* be enemy provocateurs showing up to any public demonstration. They must be identified and expelled just on general principles for the reasons Z man gives.
It used to be an ironic joke in the ’60’s that the best way to put down the KKK would be for the FBI, et al, to suddenly pull out all of their informers: They were the only ones paying dues. So the KKK would collapse financially in a couple of months.
Similarly, anybody showing up in Nazi regalia, particularly carrying the swastika flag must be sent back. No exceptions. Too good a chance that they are working for Antifa or the Cloud under cover. If you’re Soros Inc. a good strategy is to goad your target into excess as one side of your pincers thus enabling your allies (the police & the media) to excuse their conduct in cracking their heads and arresting them (with apparent justification) as the other side of the pincers. Easy peasy.
You don’t have to be conspiratorially minded to see how this works. Just look at the history of communist (and nazi) insurrection over the last 120 years.
Spot on.
The alt-right has to kick out these sorts of clowns and make it known they are not wanted. The fact the march organizers were so stupid to let this segment march shows how incompetent they are. Don’t invite troublemakers.
This doubly applies to Neo-Nazis. The stupid f**ks pretending to be Nazis have no clue what those monsters were really like,. My mother watched her family be butchered by them, She herself ended as a slave laborer for them for 4 years. So I have no relatives on my mothers side. None. All because of Nazis. Those Nazi larpers need to have their asses kicked into the gutter.
This also means getting rid of the clowns who invited them. Find people with basic management skills and who are at least a bit media savvy instead. The current crop are losers out of their league.
My grandfather got shot down by the Nazis and was treated well in prison camp for 7 months until the Russians liberated him. Nazis were a mixed bag. Many were simply Germans who were swept along with the tide of history and had to fight because that’s what their country was doing. I’m not a Holocaust denier or a Hitler-promoter. Recall the United States burned a million Japanese alive in various firebomb attacks on Japan. Our moral high ground was not relatively an Everest to the Germans’ low ground.
Were I organizing the thing, I would’ve told them they could march but no swazis or white power paraphernalia. Nazis/racist skinheads like to fight. When you expect Antifa to get violent, do you want people with you who like to fight or don’t like to fight? Guys who like to fight are a big deterrent to violence. If you don’t expect antifa or black yoof to be there, you probably wouldn’t want the Nazis there.
With all respect, yours is an ahistoricial viewpoint. The Nazis didn’t simply appear out of thin air. They were a product of their times. Post-WWI, German society was unraveling and large numbers of Germans were quite literally starving, some to death. The Holdomor was unfolding in the Ukraine. Mass starvation was a real thing, not some abstract story in history books.
Communist and Anarchist agitators raised havoc in the streets. The Nazis came to power in no small part because they were the only force that could keep the Commies and Anarchists in check. Germany was destined to fail. It was either going to fall to the Communists or to the Nazis. There were no good outcomes.
This is my view as well, however, the Germans had moral agency.
Recall also the Bavarian Soviet Republic which was a 1918 revolution by Communist Jews that started to resemble the October revolution in Russia. The Nazis did not spring-up ex nihilo.
Never heard of the BSR before, thank you!
We were lied to again and again and again, and they wonder why we are angry!
I would like to ask about the driver that was arrested for killing and injuring people with his vehicle. At first, the MSM tried to paint him as alt-right. Then there was a day of saying he was either left or probably left, or not aligned. Then someone has a picture of someone standing on the alt-right side and saying that was the driver. Anyone know the real truth? It doesn’t make much of a difference to me, but If he turns out to be alt-right, the MSM and libtards will drive it into the ground. As opposed to the lost elections, the Clinton’s crimes, the Battle of Berkeley, the shooting of Steve Scalise, and the libtard that shot his Republican neighbor in front of his wife, which they forgot as quickly as possible.
We’d all like to know about the driver. There’s something off about the dearth of information that’s been made available. If there’s any history of him being affiliated with the alt-right, it would certainly be all over the media by now. Instead, the connection is merely implied, and the public is left to draw their own conclusions.
Now, all of that may be on the level, and eventually those connections will be made public. But as of now, something about this just doesn’t smell right.
Not the most prestigious news source, but there is this:
http://www.departmentofmemes.com/article/protesters-attacked-charlottesville-drivers-car-baseball-bat/
It fits with some other things I’ve read and some of my own theories. It’s going to be a fun show if there is truth to this and prosecuting him becomes difficult.
On April 4, 1968, my wife and I were returning to North Carolina and pulled off the freeway for lunch in Nashville, Tennessee. Big mistake. At the first intersection the light turned green, but the cars in front didn’t move. Then a mob of angry black men came running through the intersection, with a group of police chasing them. A tow truck approached from the opposite direction towing a police car with smashed windows. I found the nearest on ramp, and got out of town. Turning the radio on, I learned James Earl Ray was being held in the Nashville jail, on this one-year anniversary of the assassination of Martin Luther King, and martial law had just been declared. It was a frightening experience, and I was reminded this morning as I read the news reports of the boy who drove into the crowd. I believe I would have done the same, had an irrational crowd attacked my car back in ’68, for our own safety.
I saw that too however I don’t think prosecuting Fields, even if he’s completely innocent, will be difficult. He’s already been hung, drawn and quartered even before a trial date has been set.
Fields got lucky in that he was wildly over charged. Second degree murder is not going to fly with a jury. This is a common mistake made by weak prosecutors. I expect at some point a cooler head will step in and take a vehicular manslaughter plea. He’ll get sent to a minimum security facility and not be murdered in his cell and turned into a martyr. But, the Left is in full rage mode so they may set him up to be killed in prison and then it gets interesting.
Perhaps we have our Horst Wessel?
The story emerging is that he was having mental problems and had a Hitler obsession. The video of his mother suggests she is glad he is off her hands now. Or maybe she drinks a lot.
That’s the thing our side needs to remember. Wackos are attracted to outsider politics, because new movements tend to be open to all comers. This guy could show up and join right in, despite being a nut.
At some point the kooky fringe will face a ‘Night of the Long Knives’. Bloodless or not it has to happen. It always happens because the crazy fringe can’t function in the mainstream. You can tolerate your own fringe when you are the power as long as they are not too disruptive. You can shunt them into Thule societies, academia, Any Town good deeds leagues, etc. But the real fringe, the drive cars into crowds fringe, at some point you have to bring them in from the cold or side them into the outer dark.
I think, big picture we didn’t lose on Saturday. I don’t think anybody won. The fake news media will make a stink, but I dont believe anybody who matters is listening anymore. The cucks are out in force lamenting things, which I think just further exposes them. The war was already in place, nothing Saturday changed anything except to make it harder for the fake right to continue to live in denial. They are whining like it’s the end of the world, but it’s just further proof that their world is dead and isn’t coming back. Many have said that it’s instructive that the cops followed the orders of their left wing government masters, and I would agree. I think if this continues there will come a point where orders aren’t followed, but that could be a long ways off.
The big picture in my mind was that the right made their stand and didn’t back down. That was our victory yesterday. The cops tried to prevent it from happening and Antifa/BLM attacked, but Charlottesville was a mess all day. We didn’t hold the ground we set out to, but we didn’t leave the field.
I’m going to split this into two posts, one on the Nazi Issue and one on the event as a whole.
I think the Nazi issue is fairly nuanced for several reasons. First off, a lot of alt-Nazis are merely message board trolls who aren’t so much into the ideology so much as they pose as Nazis for the sole purpose of triggering the left. This isn’t so good for expanding the movement, but it is a thing. A second issue is that from where I’m standing the non-Nazis on the right are advocating more or less the same thing as the Nazis, just without the “dirty” words. When you take the language and the imagery out of the equation, what is it the sets us apart? The third issue is how exactly are we supposed to stop people posing as Nazis from attending in support of our events? A lot of what we’re doing right now is standing up for free speech and free association, it’s hard to shout down Nazis from that position. Last of all and most important is that the accusations of Nazi mostly come from the left and cuck traitors. Those accusations are being inappropriately overused to the point were the term is almost meaningless. I hear that word and I tune out the person saying it from that point on. One thing we cannot do is let the left and cuckservatives have the power to decide what is and isn’t Nazi, and we can’t run away in terror when it gets thrown at us or hide in our safe spaces so we never get called one. One way to do that is to have a zero tolerance policy for the accusation, which I believe kind of incidentally involves ignoring the real ones.
The agitators KNOW all they have to do is show up a events with Nazi flags and they’ll get their pictures taken and no questions will be asked. Cheapest way to undermine the alt-right … and the left knows it well. They have the media to make sure it’s framed in the worst possible light.. every single time.
I believe, thanks to the general antipathy towards the media in general that this isn’t hurting us as much as people are saying.
Yes. People know that the violence is coming from the black mask black clothes crowd. When there is violence at a Trump-related event (which this wasn’t IMO) people know that it’s the Trump supporters who are being attacked.
See my post above. You are absolutely correct, but if the alt-Reich will become more symbol savy this can be almost trivial to overcome.
Even if you fully support the true Nazi agenda, heart and soul, the failed imagery & symbology of 1940’s Germany is irrelevant, it failed and was defeated. The imagery should be dropped like a bad habit.
Just getting the Alt-Reich to be “brand savvy” eliminates the negative political impact. if they abandon the failed nazi imagery then its trivial for them to actually police themselves and remove anyone who shows up nazi LARPING
Not to mention that many ‘Nazis’ are actually Federal agents or informers….
This invites a purity spiral. Who exactly is a “Nazi”? The Cuckservatives kept purging until they barely had enough left to half fill an empty think tank.
And what about the confederate Stars and Bars wavers?
Pepe and Kek?
I’d say as long as they aren’t suggesting something causing physical harm, theft, or vandalism, and especially if they wish to talk reasonably, they be allowed to do so. They might be the initial target of the left trying to find an excuse, but even Gavin McInnes and his Proud Boys – and Milo! are considered “Nazis”. Remember Berkeley? Where were all the Nazi larpers there? All I remember was an outspoken Gay Catholic Jew with a fancy hair-do.
The problem is there now IS a mason-dixon line and you are either on the north or south side of it. The left cannot be convinced. The middle moderates will either prove traitors or the left will burn down their homes even as they are pleading “but I’m not a racist – I even donated to BLM!”.
It’s a balancing act. We don’t have to do like politicians, appealing to enough of the mushy middle to cobble together 51% of the vote – but we DO need to leave the door open for at least some of them. What revolution ever succeeded without at least some buy-in and support from a decent segment of the middle?
On the other hand, Nazis are either just glorified trolls, not serious, or they are provocateurs. There MAY be a few of them who are real and who think they can rejuvenate Hitler’s name (it sounds so ridiculous to come out and say it) but I say heave the whole lot overboard. They are just not worth the trouble.
Where accommodation is called for is libertarians, 10% of the population and already completely red-pilled. Many are shooters too. Forget the Nazis.
It doesn’t matter what anyone says, if you throw your hands in the air like it’s 1939 you will alienate far too many people. People care nothing for talking points, all they care for is visuals.
Reagan was a past master at visuals. He knew it didn’t really matter all that much what he said, put an American flag behind you when you speak and you’re gold.
Have Herman Goering standing next to you and the Nazi paraphernalia and you lose everybody who doesn’t understand doing it for the lulz.
You can drop the Nazi larpers, swastikas, and become a real option or become less than a footnote. Would it kill them to wave an American flag?
How many are there, really? Do you have pictures of more than 5?
How many are needed for a visual?
The torch light parade was genius, on the other hand. Nobody but sixty year old white guys watching the history channel even know it’s associated with Nazis. It even looks good like a muscular candle light vigil. Who doesn’t like a candle light vigil? As long as they don’t end in a cross lighting ceremony these should be repeated. Participating cements bonds, viewing stirs the blood.
I’m just saying that I don’t really buy that these people are that numerous, and that we as a political movement have better things to do than to be afraid of phantoms. We especially can’t afford to fall prey to allowing the left or the cucks to define who is and isn’t a Nazi.
It really goes back to the cult of anti-racism. We should not be playing their game. Our answer shouldn’t be that we aren’t Nazis, our answer should be “F$@# you” followed by throwing a beverage in that person’s face.
We should never respond to somebody who yells, ‘Nazi’. It’s counter productive. If we want to be bigger than a fringe we need some numbers. Visuals are vital for that.
The point TWS is making is there doesn’t have to be many. If there are only five neo-NAZIs in the entire country, but all five show up for the photo op, then the MFM WILL brand all of us as neo-NAZI. “See? Here’s the photograph from their rally to prove it.”
As a sixty year old white guy, I have to agree. Which is why I think attempts at denazifying the alt-right are doomed to fail. You notice most of the people who are squeamish about the Nazi imagery are over 50. This is a movement made up largely of people in their 20’s and 30’s.
To people of my generation, who grew up watching Combat! and Escape from Stalag 17, who had relatives who actually fought in WWII, we knew that Hitler and the Nazis were Very Bad Guys even before had any idea who they were (“I’m Audie Murphy! rat-tat-tat-tat-tat!”). We were still getting bombarded with that message every day of our lives.
But the people who comprise the majority of the alt-right had none of that. They simply understand the Nazi imagery as a way to antagonize their opponents. They have no personal connection with that history. “Fashy” is used near universally as a compliment. For better or worse, Pepe the Frog and the swastika are so deeply ingrained in the alt-right’s DNA I don’t think you’ll ever get rid of them, no matter what the practical merits of your argument are.
I’m from the tail end of Gen X and my grandparents were of the WWII generation so I do have that connection, but to me the left’s abuse of the Nazi accusation has more meaning to me then the history at this point. The left has cried wolf so many times the word is now meaningless to me and I laugh at the kids making swastika memes.
To me this all reeks of being stuck in the past, and playing the left’s game.
As long as the alt-right is the alt right those don’t matter. If you want to be mainstream it does matter.
Do you think everybody is a twenty something kid who laughs at pepe and swastikas?
If you’re just in it for the laughs or to troll people that’s exactly what you’ll do. That’s all you’ll do. If you’re serious at some point you drop the frog.
There’s guys like me who could care less about the images but see they don’t self discipline to drop the Nazi stuff because they think it’s funny.
If trolling is more important than change that’s all you’ll really accomplish.
How do you propose to overthrow the status quo without young men in their twenties who laugh at frogs?
Normal people aren’t fighters. Old people aren’t fighters. Angry young men are fighters.
The trolling does have purpose. It causes the left to get upset and make mistakes, and it delivers a great deal of personal satisfaction to those of us performing the act. One of Alinsky’s rules for radicals is that a tactic that your people enjoy is the best sort of tactic.
Trolling can’t be all you show the world. It serves a purpose but an American flag or across would do the same. So right now it isn’t just trolling.
Right now the propose is pretty clearly to in group your own guys. If you’re willing to throw your hand in the air, wear the broken cross, and laugh at the frog you’re either one of the boys or a plant.
Just like dogs, some people are visual and are activated by movement, and some people are activated by sounds, smells, and vibrations. Both negative and positive actions and imagery can be tailored to suit a special psychological operation for maximum impact. But if not done correctly, such actions can become a double-edged sword.
Tolling for trolling’s sake is as you say, pretty meaningless. However, trolling can be and educational thing when sarcasm and humor are employed. It can also be a psychological weapon to irritate and disrupt an opponent’s thought pattern, or their propaganda spiel.
When dealing with the leftists, tactics must be honed and powerful enough to either drop the enemy on his face, or send him running in fear.
Running around waving Nazi flags, and Confederate flags and all the other flags of the past – displays a lack of imagination and future orientation. Since the flags of the past are pretty thoroughly maligned. Come up with some new ones. Waving old flags is just an indication of wanting failure over the longer term.
I see a lot of talk of Nazis behind the bushes coming from the lefties. This is understandable since they’re a bag of triggered retards.
Then I also see a bunch of talk about Nazis coming out of the right – including your post. Where you say :
“A second issue is that from where I’m standing the non-Nazis on the right are advocating more or less the same thing as the Nazis, just without the “dirty” words. When you take the language and the imagery out of the equation, what is it the sets us apart? ”
I’ve got to ask. Does ANYBODY know what the Nazis were about? Because the lefties should have loved them since they were tyrants and socialists. And the righties SHOULD not like them – since they were socialists.
When I see people on the alleged right trying to defend the Nazis, I have to wonder if the alt right really has any idea whatsoever about what it supposed to be standing for – or if it’s all just some sort of temper tantrum that’s not quite up on the same par as the Antifa d-bags.
Yet.
Keep in mind a healthy percentage of these groups also have been infiltrated by Fed agitators.
“A lot of what we’re doing right now is standing up for free speech and free association, it’s hard to shout down Nazis from that position.”
No it’s not. I don’t want to associate with Nazis, plain and simple. They are no help to winning, if not actual provocateurs (I generally assume pretty much all who show up at such an event are provocateurs). Free association does not mean we are forced to associate with everyone no matter how reprehensible; it means we choose with whom we associate.
As to free speech, there is no such thing, if you really dig into it. All speech takes place (is heard or read) somewhere, a place that is owned by someone. That someone decides whether or not to tolerate that speech. Even gab.ai has rules; they just tend to be pretty loose rules.
If we say, in places and events we own, “No Nazis or KKK”, then that’s that, and Nazis will have to organize their own events. THAT is what free speech is.
I recall Z-man predicted after Trump won, the Alt-Rigjt might fracture. Could this be when that might occur?
That’s already happened. Alt-Right vs Alt-Light. Cernovich, Milo, etc. have already denounced the Alt-Right and vice versa. Google “Alt Light” and you’ll find it.
That wasn’t a fracture, that was people who weren’t really alt-right splitting off to sell books & penis pills.
Most excellent post. The temptation of purity spiraling, the JQ and the Nazi LARPing remain the Alt-Right’s weakest areas. That said, the cuckery of mainstream conservatives went into overdrive yesterday. As if Antifa weren’t even there. On Twitter you could easily tell which conservatives will be future backstabbers.
My only reservation about Friday (and I could be quite mistaken) was the goofy Crate and Barrel torch dance. Just way too LARPy for me, but it’s a tactic. If it impressed more people than it dissuaded, then it worked.
I hear a great deal about Nazis. Nazis are not right wingers. So is it possible that this was a false flag operation? I can see some knuckle heads with Rebel flags, but Nazi flags?
Its the Left that proudly flies commie flags. To me this was just a false flag operation from start to finish. Especially given the way the police handled this.
As I understand it, this whole thing started because the city of Charlottesville wanted to remove a statue of Robert E. Lee. Tell me how that is any different than the Taliban destroying the Bamiyan Buddha statues.
Both involve a group currently in power, obsessed with removing symbols of history that they find objectionable.
Yeah, the push to pull these monuments down is odd to me, if only b/c it is purposely picking as old wounds. Tearing off old scabs… and I think it is intentional… to illicit a reaction and response. They will pick until they get one… so they’ll take as many monuments as IT TAKES to finally get the ire of folks. The progs want to burn the country down. They will not leave us alone and they will not stop or tire from trying to defame our country or our love of it and it’s history. I could be wrong… but it seems that way.
Culture war is what it is. Here we go. It’s all the left has left in the bag. Let’s relive the 1960’s and 70s!
Yeah, the push to pull these monuments down is odd to me
Then you need to read 1984. (Hint, what is one of the jobs of Minitrue)
Note that there is a VERY good chance that Robert E. Lee was a Democrat. He certainly was not a Republican
Get a good biography of Lee. He was the most apolitical person you can imagine. He hated politicians and did not trust newspapers of any side.
Pulling Lee down is pulling down the memory of reconciliation, as well.
They keep poking us in the eye til they get what they want. Cue the dance scene from the Grapes of Wrath- the sheriff and his deputies showed up, but nobody was rioting.
He was a a Virginian.
First last and always.
Its not odd. Its what the commies do in every country. Before you genocide them, you destroy their culture.
My sense is that Gov. McAuliff, the Clintonista, was just part of the gaming to take down Trump. The White Nationalists or Nazi’s or whatever this group wants to call themselves is already sidelined, but, but they are available for a price to create chaos. And the narrative of this chaos was shown immediately as the attack on Trump began in earnest. Cops stand back and let everything got to “boil” and nary a road block/barrier to dissuade any attacker (what history to learn from? Europe? Nothing to see there!). No, this was an orchestrated event and even the BLM bad boys showed up to stir the pot. But all you hear about is the “white nationalists” and Trump, Bannon, Miller, and others being lumped into the same group. Talk about crafting the narrative. The media is sickening.