The Long Struggle

At this point, everyone who is anyone has chimed in with a misinformed hot take on the riot in Charlottesville. I’ve done my share on Gab about it, but I thought a full post was a better way to make myself clear on the subject. A feature of outsider politics is that every event requires a response. It becomes a way for everyone to position themselves in relation to everyone else. For instance RamZPaul is out reminding everyone that he does not like Richard Spencer, using Charlottesville as a jumping off point.

Having had some time to think about my own range of responses over the last 48 hours or so, I think the most important take away is that a whole lot of people who never heard of the alt-right, now know there is another team on the field. We forget that most people don’t know Antifa from Auntie May. Over the last 48 hours I’ve had a lot of normal people ask me to explain what’s going on with these groups they are seeing on TV. Despite the media barrage, I’ve had a few normies say, “At least they are fighting the Left.”

That said, you can be sure that many of the CivNats and Buckley Cons were rushing to their nearest liberal and begging them for forgiveness. Poor old Gavin McInnes wore himself out telling his friends on the Left that his PoofBerry group disavowed everyone they were told to disavow.  Obviously I enjoy mocking Captain Buttplug more than I should, but he has a big audience. He and the other accommodationist types have a lot of influence and they are using this to fund raise and hurt our thing.

You learn more from failure than success, but success does offer good lessons. The Friday night torch light march into the park was a smashing success. It was clever and original. It also showed a high level of discipline. That was the sort of thing that you do when you know the system is willing to use any means necessary to stop you. You get creative and use their weight against them. The cops and politicians did not see it coming so they could not get their goons out of the flophouses to smash it up.

In retrospect, the alt-right should have simply cancelled the Saturday event, leaving the cops to figure out how to blame the inevitable Antifa rioting on the alt-right. That would have left them guessing about the sort of people they are facing. The important thing about the Left is they believe their own bullshit. That’s why they put so much effort into forcing their enemies to play the role designed for them. Outfoxing them and not playing that role is the best psychological weapon that can be deployed against the people in charge.

That’s not what happened and it is a good lesson for our side. The cops lied about their intentions and the politicians lied too. Cops are mostly guys who like pushing people around and they are not giving up that privilege for anything. They would mace a nursery school if their bosses ordered it. In all future dealings with the cops, the underlying assumption must be that the cops are lying. Security needs to be designed with the assumption that the cops are working with the other side. Charlottesville is the proof of it.

There’s another lesson. The whole point of the event was to unite all the factions of the Right, including the idiotic Nazi larpers and KKK clowns. I get it. They were there for you from the beginning. Not punching right is a big deal in this thing. They are super red pilled on the JQ. I get it, but the alt-right needs to understand that these micro groups do vastly more damage to the cause than any benefit gained from unity. The truth of life is you can’t save everyone. Some people get left behind and the Nazi larpers have to be sidelined.

I can hear the objections from some readers, but here’s the question. Do you want to win or do you want to be ideologically pure? If it is the former, it means getting the Chad and Stacy types to come to our side. The middle-aged guy with a mortgage and kids is not rallying to a knucklehead waving a Nazi flag. Pleasing the handful of yesterday men costs tens of thousands of recruits. You can’t win that way. If the alt-right makes ideological purity into a suicide pact, it will be their only accomplishment.

There is always someone who will say “the media will call us Nazis anyway, so why worry about it?” This is loser talk. If the media screams “Nazi” and they only have images of clean-cut, well dressed guys being polite and smart, the people will believe you. If on the other hand the media screams “Nazi” and you’re out waving Nazi flags, the public will believe the media. That’s how it works. Blaming the media for your failure to grasp this reality is just a way to excuse your lack of discipline and self-regard.

Finally, the main lesson here is that the people in charge are not going to leave the field without a fight. They will fight to the last man. The last few weeks, there has been a whiff of triumphalism on the alt-right, leading up to this event. Listening to Mike Enoch last week, I got the sense he thought this was going to be a great turning point. Richard Spencer was posting his version of the The Port Huron Statement. Charlottesville was a good reminder that we are just at that early days of the great culture war of the 21st century.

I’m fond of saying that it is a long war and everyday will not be sunshine and lollipops. This is the long twilight struggle of our people, so learning how to take a punch, even the self-inflicted ones, is important. The people organizing and trying to build organizations are not professional organizers. They are learning on the fly, so that means making mistakes. Success counts on the leaders learning from mistakes and the rank and file holding them to the highest standard. The leaders need to get better and we need to get better.

Tomorrow, the struggle continues.

This post has already been linked to 9153 times!

Leave a Reply

147 Comments on "The Long Struggle"

Notify of
avatar
Sort by:   newest | oldest | most voted
Occasional Commenter
Guest

As I understand it, this whole thing started because the city of Charlottesville wanted to remove a statue of Robert E. Lee. Tell me how that is any different than the Taliban destroying the Bamiyan Buddha statues.

Both involve a group currently in power, obsessed with removing symbols of history that they find objectionable.

Member
Yeah, the push to pull these monuments down is odd to me, if only b/c it is purposely picking as old wounds. Tearing off old scabs… and I think it is intentional… to illicit a reaction and response. They will pick until they get one… so they’ll take as many monuments as IT TAKES to finally get the ire of folks. The progs want to burn the country down. They will not leave us alone and they will not stop or tire from trying to defame our country or our love of it and it’s history. I could be wrong…… Read more »
William O. B\'Livion
Guest

Yeah, the push to pull these monuments down is odd to me

Then you need to read 1984. (Hint, what is one of the jobs of Minitrue)

Note that there is a VERY good chance that Robert E. Lee was a Democrat. He certainly was not a Republican

Member

Get a good biography of Lee. He was the most apolitical person you can imagine. He hated politicians and did not trust newspapers of any side.

Alzaebo
Guest

Pulling Lee down is pulling down the memory of reconciliation, as well.

They keep poking us in the eye til they get what they want. Cue the dance scene from the Grapes of Wrath- the sheriff and his deputies showed up, but nobody was rioting.

Member

He was a a Virginian.
First last and always.

Gary Eden
Guest

Its not odd. Its what the commies do in every country. Before you genocide them, you destroy their culture.

LetsPlay
Member
My sense is that Gov. McAuliff, the Clintonista, was just part of the gaming to take down Trump. The White Nationalists or Nazi’s or whatever this group wants to call themselves is already sidelined, but, but they are available for a price to create chaos. And the narrative of this chaos was shown immediately as the attack on Trump began in earnest. Cops stand back and let everything got to “boil” and nary a road block/barrier to dissuade any attacker (what history to learn from? Europe? Nothing to see there!). No, this was an orchestrated event and even the BLM… Read more »
George Orwell
Guest

Most excellent post. The temptation of purity spiraling, the JQ and the Nazi LARPing remain the Alt-Right’s weakest areas. That said, the cuckery of mainstream conservatives went into overdrive yesterday. As if Antifa weren’t even there. On Twitter you could easily tell which conservatives will be future backstabbers.

My only reservation about Friday (and I could be quite mistaken) was the goofy Crate and Barrel torch dance. Just way too LARPy for me, but it’s a tactic. If it impressed more people than it dissuaded, then it worked.

Obama\'s boyfriend
Guest

I hear a great deal about Nazis. Nazis are not right wingers. So is it possible that this was a false flag operation? I can see some knuckle heads with Rebel flags, but Nazi flags?

Its the Left that proudly flies commie flags. To me this was just a false flag operation from start to finish. Especially given the way the police handled this.

George Orwell
Guest

I recall Z-man predicted after Trump won, the Alt-Rigjt might fracture. Could this be when that might occur?

Jackson
Guest

That’s already happened. Alt-Right vs Alt-Light. Cernovich, Milo, etc. have already denounced the Alt-Right and vice versa. Google “Alt Light” and you’ll find it.

Zorost
Guest

That wasn’t a fracture, that was people who weren’t really alt-right splitting off to sell books & penis pills.

Member
I’m going to split this into two posts, one on the Nazi Issue and one on the event as a whole. I think the Nazi issue is fairly nuanced for several reasons. First off, a lot of alt-Nazis are merely message board trolls who aren’t so much into the ideology so much as they pose as Nazis for the sole purpose of triggering the left. This isn’t so good for expanding the movement, but it is a thing. A second issue is that from where I’m standing the non-Nazis on the right are advocating more or less the same thing… Read more »
Member

The agitators KNOW all they have to do is show up a events with Nazi flags and they’ll get their pictures taken and no questions will be asked. Cheapest way to undermine the alt-right … and the left knows it well. They have the media to make sure it’s framed in the worst possible light.. every single time.

Member

I believe, thanks to the general antipathy towards the media in general that this isn’t hurting us as much as people are saying.

Exurban
Guest

Yes. People know that the violence is coming from the black mask black clothes crowd. When there is violence at a Trump-related event (which this wasn’t IMO) people know that it’s the Trump supporters who are being attacked.

Grayman
Guest

See my post above. You are absolutely correct, but if the alt-Reich will become more symbol savy this can be almost trivial to overcome.
Even if you fully support the true Nazi agenda, heart and soul, the failed imagery & symbology of 1940’s Germany is irrelevant, it failed and was defeated. The imagery should be dropped like a bad habit.
Just getting the Alt-Reich to be “brand savvy” eliminates the negative political impact. if they abandon the failed nazi imagery then its trivial for them to actually police themselves and remove anyone who shows up nazi LARPING

kokor hekkus
Guest

Not to mention that many ‘Nazis’ are actually Federal agents or informers….

Member
This invites a purity spiral. Who exactly is a “Nazi”? The Cuckservatives kept purging until they barely had enough left to half fill an empty think tank. And what about the confederate Stars and Bars wavers? Pepe and Kek? I’d say as long as they aren’t suggesting something causing physical harm, theft, or vandalism, and especially if they wish to talk reasonably, they be allowed to do so. They might be the initial target of the left trying to find an excuse, but even Gavin McInnes and his Proud Boys – and Milo! are considered “Nazis”. Remember Berkeley? Where were… Read more »
Paul Bonneau
Guest
It’s a balancing act. We don’t have to do like politicians, appealing to enough of the mushy middle to cobble together 51% of the vote – but we DO need to leave the door open for at least some of them. What revolution ever succeeded without at least some buy-in and support from a decent segment of the middle? On the other hand, Nazis are either just glorified trolls, not serious, or they are provocateurs. There MAY be a few of them who are real and who think they can rejuvenate Hitler’s name (it sounds so ridiculous to come out… Read more »
TWS
Guest
It doesn’t matter what anyone says, if you throw your hands in the air like it’s 1939 you will alienate far too many people. People care nothing for talking points, all they care for is visuals. Reagan was a past master at visuals. He knew it didn’t really matter all that much what he said, put an American flag behind you when you speak and you’re gold. Have Herman Goering standing next to you and the Nazi paraphernalia and you lose everybody who doesn’t understand doing it for the lulz. You can drop the Nazi larpers, swastikas, and become a… Read more »
Member

How many are there, really? Do you have pictures of more than 5?

TWS
Guest

How many are needed for a visual?

The torch light parade was genius, on the other hand. Nobody but sixty year old white guys watching the history channel even know it’s associated with Nazis. It even looks good like a muscular candle light vigil. Who doesn’t like a candle light vigil? As long as they don’t end in a cross lighting ceremony these should be repeated. Participating cements bonds, viewing stirs the blood.

Member

I’m just saying that I don’t really buy that these people are that numerous, and that we as a political movement have better things to do than to be afraid of phantoms. We especially can’t afford to fall prey to allowing the left or the cucks to define who is and isn’t a Nazi.

It really goes back to the cult of anti-racism. We should not be playing their game. Our answer shouldn’t be that we aren’t Nazis, our answer should be “F$@# you” followed by throwing a beverage in that person’s face.

TWS
Guest

We should never respond to somebody who yells, ‘Nazi’. It’s counter productive. If we want to be bigger than a fringe we need some numbers. Visuals are vital for that.

Guest

The point TWS is making is there doesn’t have to be many. If there are only five neo-NAZIs in the entire country, but all five show up for the photo op, then the MFM WILL brand all of us as neo-NAZI. “See? Here’s the photograph from their rally to prove it.”

Bruno the Arrogant
Guest
As a sixty year old white guy, I have to agree. Which is why I think attempts at denazifying the alt-right are doomed to fail. You notice most of the people who are squeamish about the Nazi imagery are over 50. This is a movement made up largely of people in their 20’s and 30’s. To people of my generation, who grew up watching Combat! and Escape from Stalag 17, who had relatives who actually fought in WWII, we knew that Hitler and the Nazis were Very Bad Guys even before had any idea who they were (“I’m Audie Murphy!… Read more »
Member

I’m from the tail end of Gen X and my grandparents were of the WWII generation so I do have that connection, but to me the left’s abuse of the Nazi accusation has more meaning to me then the history at this point. The left has cried wolf so many times the word is now meaningless to me and I laugh at the kids making swastika memes.

To me this all reeks of being stuck in the past, and playing the left’s game.

TWS
Guest
As long as the alt-right is the alt right those don’t matter. If you want to be mainstream it does matter. Do you think everybody is a twenty something kid who laughs at pepe and swastikas? If you’re just in it for the laughs or to troll people that’s exactly what you’ll do. That’s all you’ll do. If you’re serious at some point you drop the frog. There’s guys like me who could care less about the images but see they don’t self discipline to drop the Nazi stuff because they think it’s funny. If trolling is more important than… Read more »
Member

How do you propose to overthrow the status quo without young men in their twenties who laugh at frogs?

Normal people aren’t fighters. Old people aren’t fighters. Angry young men are fighters.

The trolling does have purpose. It causes the left to get upset and make mistakes, and it delivers a great deal of personal satisfaction to those of us performing the act. One of Alinsky’s rules for radicals is that a tactic that your people enjoy is the best sort of tactic.

TWS
Guest

Trolling can’t be all you show the world. It serves a purpose but an American flag or across would do the same. So right now it isn’t just trolling.

Right now the propose is pretty clearly to in group your own guys. If you’re willing to throw your hand in the air, wear the broken cross, and laugh at the frog you’re either one of the boys or a plant.

dfacts
Guest
Just like dogs, some people are visual and are activated by movement, and some people are activated by sounds, smells, and vibrations. Both negative and positive actions and imagery can be tailored to suit a special psychological operation for maximum impact. But if not done correctly, such actions can become a double-edged sword. Tolling for trolling’s sake is as you say, pretty meaningless. However, trolling can be and educational thing when sarcasm and humor are employed. It can also be a psychological weapon to irritate and disrupt an opponent’s thought pattern, or their propaganda spiel. When dealing with the leftists,… Read more »
Calsdad
Guest

Running around waving Nazi flags, and Confederate flags and all the other flags of the past – displays a lack of imagination and future orientation. Since the flags of the past are pretty thoroughly maligned. Come up with some new ones. Waving old flags is just an indication of wanting failure over the longer term.

Calsdad
Guest
I see a lot of talk of Nazis behind the bushes coming from the lefties. This is understandable since they’re a bag of triggered retards. Then I also see a bunch of talk about Nazis coming out of the right – including your post. Where you say : “A second issue is that from where I’m standing the non-Nazis on the right are advocating more or less the same thing as the Nazis, just without the “dirty” words. When you take the language and the imagery out of the equation, what is it the sets us apart? ” I’ve got… Read more »
Ned2
Member

Keep in mind a healthy percentage of these groups also have been infiltrated by Fed agitators.

Paul Bonneau
Guest
“A lot of what we’re doing right now is standing up for free speech and free association, it’s hard to shout down Nazis from that position.” No it’s not. I don’t want to associate with Nazis, plain and simple. They are no help to winning, if not actual provocateurs (I generally assume pretty much all who show up at such an event are provocateurs). Free association does not mean we are forced to associate with everyone no matter how reprehensible; it means we choose with whom we associate. As to free speech, there is no such thing, if you really… Read more »
Member
I think, big picture we didn’t lose on Saturday. I don’t think anybody won. The fake news media will make a stink, but I dont believe anybody who matters is listening anymore. The cucks are out in force lamenting things, which I think just further exposes them. The war was already in place, nothing Saturday changed anything except to make it harder for the fake right to continue to live in denial. They are whining like it’s the end of the world, but it’s just further proof that their world is dead and isn’t coming back. Many have said that… Read more »
Anonymous White Male
Guest
I would like to ask about the driver that was arrested for killing and injuring people with his vehicle. At first, the MSM tried to paint him as alt-right. Then there was a day of saying he was either left or probably left, or not aligned. Then someone has a picture of someone standing on the alt-right side and saying that was the driver. Anyone know the real truth? It doesn’t make much of a difference to me, but If he turns out to be alt-right, the MSM and libtards will drive it into the ground. As opposed to the… Read more »
Bruno the Arrogant
Guest

We’d all like to know about the driver. There’s something off about the dearth of information that’s been made available. If there’s any history of him being affiliated with the alt-right, it would certainly be all over the media by now. Instead, the connection is merely implied, and the public is left to draw their own conclusions.

Now, all of that may be on the level, and eventually those connections will be made public. But as of now, something about this just doesn’t smell right.

Member

Not the most prestigious news source, but there is this:

http://www.departmentofmemes.com/article/protesters-attacked-charlottesville-drivers-car-baseball-bat/

It fits with some other things I’ve read and some of my own theories. It’s going to be a fun show if there is truth to this and prosecuting him becomes difficult.

merrell denison
Guest
On April 4, 1968, my wife and I were returning to North Carolina and pulled off the freeway for lunch in Nashville, Tennessee. Big mistake. At the first intersection the light turned green, but the cars in front didn’t move. Then a mob of angry black men came running through the intersection, with a group of police chasing them. A tow truck approached from the opposite direction towing a police car with smashed windows. I found the nearest on ramp, and got out of town. Turning the radio on, I learned James Earl Ray was being held in the Nashville… Read more »
Jim in Alaska
Guest

I saw that too however I don’t think prosecuting Fields, even if he’s completely innocent, will be difficult. He’s already been hung, drawn and quartered even before a trial date has been set.

Al from da Nort
Guest
Z Man; Everybody must remember at all times that there *will* be enemy provocateurs showing up to any public demonstration. They must be identified and expelled just on general principles for the reasons Z man gives. It used to be an ironic joke in the ’60’s that the best way to put down the KKK would be for the FBI, et al, to suddenly pull out all of their informers: They were the only ones paying dues. So the KKK would collapse financially in a couple of months. Similarly, anybody showing up in Nazi regalia, particularly carrying the swastika flag… Read more »
Rod1963
Guest
Spot on. The alt-right has to kick out these sorts of clowns and make it known they are not wanted. The fact the march organizers were so stupid to let this segment march shows how incompetent they are. Don’t invite troublemakers. This doubly applies to Neo-Nazis. The stupid f**ks pretending to be Nazis have no clue what those monsters were really like,. My mother watched her family be butchered by them, She herself ended as a slave laborer for them for 4 years. So I have no relatives on my mothers side. None. All because of Nazis. Those Nazi larpers… Read more »
PRCD
Guest
My grandfather got shot down by the Nazis and was treated well in prison camp for 7 months until the Russians liberated him. Nazis were a mixed bag. Many were simply Germans who were swept along with the tide of history and had to fight because that’s what their country was doing. I’m not a Holocaust denier or a Hitler-promoter. Recall the United States burned a million Japanese alive in various firebomb attacks on Japan. Our moral high ground was not relatively an Everest to the Germans’ low ground. Were I organizing the thing, I would’ve told them they could… Read more »
Guest
Guest
With all respect, yours is an ahistoricial viewpoint. The Nazis didn’t simply appear out of thin air. They were a product of their times. Post-WWI, German society was unraveling and large numbers of Germans were quite literally starving, some to death. The Holdomor was unfolding in the Ukraine. Mass starvation was a real thing, not some abstract story in history books. Communist and Anarchist agitators raised havoc in the streets. The Nazis came to power in no small part because they were the only force that could keep the Commies and Anarchists in check. Germany was destined to fail. It… Read more »
PRCD
Guest

This is my view as well, however, the Germans had moral agency.

Recall also the Bavarian Soviet Republic which was a 1918 revolution by Communist Jews that started to resemble the October revolution in Russia. The Nazis did not spring-up ex nihilo.

Alzaebo
Guest

Never heard of the BSR before, thank you!
We were lied to again and again and again, and they wonder why we are angry!

Member

Another thing about the Nazi issue is that it has been political gospel since the WWII generation that Nazi=bad. The younger generations don’t have this same connection, and I’m seeing that a lot of them consider “Nazi” little more than a strawman of the wacko left.

Saml Adams
Guest
You have a point. My generation (late Boomer) still had parents, uncles, grandparents who faced off with the Nazis. . Personally, one of my uncles, an armored officer, made the great sweep into southern Germany with Pattons Third Army. They liberated multiple sub camps of Mauthausen and labor camps. He married my great aunt, a Polish girl who was a slave laborer and one of only three members of her extended family to survive the war. Growing up, this shit was real and tangible. Now, since history is not even taught, “Nazi” is a label applied to anyone you don’t… Read more »
Member

Are these people Nazi’s though, or just people for whom the word doesn’t mean much to them?

Member

Any clown who uses the word “Nazi” to refer to the Wehrmacht is too ignorant to waste time on.
The “Nazis” never made up more than 10% of the German population.

Saml Adams
Guest

If my great uncle were alive, he’d be happy to tell you about facing off with fanatical Waffen-SS armored units in a thin skinned Sherman or what it was like to walk into a slave labor camp. Those were “Nazis”, shithead. By the way, I don’t believe actual party membership execeeded 6-7% of population with the active cohort being much lower, if you actually read anything written on de-Nazification efforts, many held party membership as requirement for certain jobs. But save your liver excretions for somebody else.

George Orwell
Guest

Yes… and there seem to be many prominent in the Alt-Right who would say your uncle is lying for the Jews, because there were no labor camps and Mauthausen was a resort. Sadly some who say this are not trolling but really believe this garbage, and that sort of nonsense will marginalize the Alt-Right.

Xennady
Guest
Marginalized? Nope. The Holocaust happened in the middle of the last century, to people who had nothing to do with me. Sad. But so was the ethnic cleansing of Christians from Iraq, which happened under the guns of the US army during the Iraq War, and the mass murders in SE Asia after the left engineered the destruction of South Vietnam. Both of those happened more recently with vastly more direct responsibility accruing to the United States, yet somehow the mainstream assumes they have no impact at all with today’s electorate. Yet have a few cranks display their ignorance about… Read more »
Member

Where on the spectrum would you place people who don’t necessarily think Nazis are “cool”, but think that watching progressives have their head explode when shown a picture of a frog in a Wehrmacht uniform is “cool”?

Xennady
Guest
I’m fine with anything that will make progs froth at the mouth, if only because I know that they’re fine with anything that will harm me- up to and including murder. Frogs in Wermacht uniforms are an obvious attempt at humor and trolling. But as I’ve already implied, I’m not interested in Holocaustianity. I’m continually expected to accept endless nastiness aimed at me and my values, yet I’m also expected to get outraged on command when someone says or does something the left doesn’t like. Like wearing a Nazi uniform, or dressing up a cartoon frog. I’m not having this… Read more »
George Orwell
Guest

All good points, xennady.

Xennady
Guest

Thanks. Pardon me if my crankiness seemed to be aimed at you, because it wasn’t.

But I have known personally people who have had family members killed in three separate genocides, none of which appear to concern the US government or mainstream American political establishment one iota.

I’ve grown pretty effing tired of hearing about the One True Genocide, the only one that matters, because it wasn’t.

Alzaebo
Guest

Gotta say, “Holocaustianity” is perfect- just the term I was looking for.
Boy, am I ever an apostate now.

Alzaebo
Guest

PS- even so, let us remember the wisdom taught by our great Lord of the Dark Art, el baboso: Marketing. It’s the marketing that wins.

See the astonishing success of Holocaustianity, and learn.

Xennady
Guest

This term is from Vox Day, I should mention.

merrell denison
Guest

“Nazi” was short for National Socialist Party, which currently has 69 congressional members.

Karl Hungus
Guest

in case you care about being correct: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (acronym: NSDAP; English: National-Socialist German Workers’ Party

TRX
Guest

The way the police have been soft-pedaling their responses to leftist attacks, it might be a good idea to have someone(s) with some video equipment, preferably from a nearby roof or high window, to give an overall view of events.

If it hadn’t been for a few lucky seconds of video, Stickman would probably have wound up in jail.

Tim
Guest

I would suggest, rather than stationing people on roofs or other high places (because they can be mistaken for snipers), to use video-camera-equipped drones.

james wilson
Guest

This post is pitch perfect.

George Orwell
Guest

Agreed.

Member
Even Andrew Anglin told his readers not to show up with Nazi flags and go a-larping all over God’s green earth. He asked for people not to dress up, to simply be dressed well. I think we can both tolerate Nazis, and find ways to enforce group discipline on people who show up for demonstrations. A decision is made beforehand how people are to look and what to bring. If they don’t they are asked to leave. If they don’t leave they are considered to be counter demonstrators and treated appropriately. If this means vetting people and having smaller demonstrations,… Read more »
Murray
Guest
This cuts the Gordian knot pretty well: allow all allies to participate, but keep a tight rein on optics. No Buckleyite purges of the extremist wings, but an agreement that all who take part should present an acceptable face to those we are trying to win over. I think Nazi LARPing is stupid–why would you associate yourself with a failed European nationalist movement from the last century?–but there’s really no way to dissociate ourselves from them without heading onto the slippery slope that has brought “conservatism” to its current dreadful state. Leave then be, but tell them to leave the… Read more »
Ryan T
Guest

A good strategy moving forward would be to assume anyone agitating for taking action in the form of violence is a government informant or agent.

Member
White hat
Guest

Ok one thing. If you want ordinary women and men to stand with you then you have to define how women in the modern world belong and stand with you. That is to be found in the natural truth of what unites us not what divides us.

Trent Denton
Guest

This event will prove to the country how violent and hate filled the alt right is

Imagine being a WWII vet who stormed Normandy and tore down Nazi banners only to see “patriotic Americans” toting swastikas in 2017

This is the beginning of the end. The people support antifa

Member

The violence began after your people showed up. Fuck off.

Xennady
Guest
I take this comment as either an attempt at humor or an astonishingly bad attempt at trolling. But I’d just like to point out, for the record, that if the people actually supported antifa they’d also have supported that heavily promoted movement for the 99%, whatever it was. I can’t recall the name of that peculiar set of astroturfers, but I do recall watching weatherman Hal Roker wish them good luck, on national television. I can only guess at how much airtime the rest of the leftist media expended attempting to turn this particular set of losers into heroes. Sad.… Read more »
SootsMe
Guest

The only support violent thugs deserve is on the end of a noose…

Observer
Guest
1. There were plenty of polite, well-dressed fit young men in Charlottesville. THe press just didn’t showcase them as much as the LARPers. 2. There is a valuable place for Nazis in the movement. That place is to push the Overton window ever rightward & to make the merely fascists look like moderates by comparison. However, it might be true that that place is not necessarily sharing the same public stage as the Alt Right. 3. The Left has gone so anti-male, anti-white that young white men are going to be Alt-Right no matter how badly the Alt-Right figureheads screw… Read more »
Grayman
Guest
Zman, The Alt-Reich (Nazi / KKK faction) can also be addressed by having them improve their symbology. The entire alt-right needs to do that at any rate. Symbols and symbolism is important and powerful. The alt-reich coming up with their own symbols and moving past nazi Germany removes a lot of their negative political cache. As Vox has pointed out, literal neo-nazi’s in Sweden, the Swedish Democrats, became the largest party simply by getting rid of the nazi imagery and developing their own symbols. The alt-reich will not ever be the dominant faction of the overall alt-right but eliminating their… Read more »
Rod1963
Guest
No, just get rid of the scum. They are a shit magnet They are a insult to men who fought and died in WWII. There still some veterans and survivors of that war still alive. like my mother and uncles(who stormed the beaches at Normandy June 6th). People who defending those scumbag larpers make a mockery of men like my uncle father and my mother. Hell your precious Nazis wiped out my mothers side of the family, I detest them and their supporters with every fiber of my being. The alt-right either cleans up it’s act,and finds better leadership than… Read more »
A.T. Tapman
Member

Just calm down, it should now be clear to all of our cat ladies, the altright is NOT the tea party.

A.B Prosper
Guest
Look Nazis suck we all get that but don’t go all History Channel Hallowed Be WW2 on us You do realize that our biggest ally was the USSR under Joseph Stalin who also committed mass genocide and as soon as we were exhausted proceed to enslave Europe and tried to destroy its cultures as thoroughly as that fuck-wit Austrian did And before you talk about how much the good guys we were , consider the civilians in Germany and Japan we burned alive In the end three Socialists powers went to war , the US (Democratic Socialist) the USSR (Internal… Read more »
FaCubeItches
Guest

“That said, you can be sure that many of the CivNats and Buckley Cons were rushing to their nearest liberal and begging them for forgiveness.”

You misspelled “blowing”

Karl Hungus
Guest

cuckservatives get druk on manberry juice

Sharrukin
Guest
I think we need to answer an important question first. Do we believe that this will be resolved with the ballot box or the bullet box? If the ballot box then the Nazis and others might well be a problem. Trump got elected of course but that doesn’t seem to be going too well given the sabotage and internal dissent his administration is facing. If the bullet box then we will will need a dedicated and determined minority of fighters when things get frisky. The Nazis will fight which is more than can be said for Gavin McInnes and his… Read more »
TomA
Guest

It should be clear to everyone now that politicians and the media are not going to allow anyone on the Right to practice their 1st Amendment rights. That is the symptom of the disease. The de facto abrogation of the Constitution is the real cancer, and that speaks to the seriousness of the current conflict. The Left will not rest until the hive is pure, and the Right will not back down until Constitutional governance is re-established. As time goes on, we have less and less common ground between us.

George Orwell
Guest
Member
Consider for a moment the aftermath of World War II. Germany and Japan lay in ruins. Most of the nations that the armies of those two countries had overrun and brutalized would have happily seen them ground into dust and wiped off the planet. But – a funny thing happened. Under AMERICAN leadership – under MacArthur in Japan, and via the Marshall Plan in Europe, the nations of Japan and Germany were rebuilt into global economic powerhouses – via a process that must have – at least initially – horrified the neighboring countries that they had invaded and subjugated. But… Read more »
Member

Your knowledge of the War Between the States and Reconstruction is shockingly ignorant. The result is an unconscious arrogance of assumption on your part.

Alzaebo
Guest

Relatively. He said relatively.
The South was not postwar Berlin or East Germany.

Issac
Guest
The thing about reading out nazis is that would never work in an organization that is decentralized and the alt right will be decentralized by necessity until the left loses enough institutional power that being centralized is possible. In other words, no time soon. So the critiques in that regard have to be shelved for more pertinent ones. I think they could do better throttling the focus. One place can be primed, four demonstrations at diffirent locations makes the dance of civil obstruction more difficult. Messages are created by repetition. More voices and fewer locations should be repeats. That being… Read more »
Ron
Guest

True. The Nazi Government was a poly-anarchy, where all departments competed with one and another for resources and political power. Hitler permitted it to keep them at each other’s throats than seek to overthrow him. That is one of the reasons German intel never could figure out when and where D-Day would occur. Canaris wouldn’t play ball, and vice versa, with all the other intel agencies to share information. Everyone protected their own turf. But in time Himmler or Goering or Canaris would win out, had theThird Reich continued. They would have fought each other with their own private armies.

Bruno the Arrogant
Guest
I certainly call it a win. The number of people who showed up demonstrated the alt-right has graduated from “fringe movement”. We’re significant enough that the governor saw fit to call out the National Guard. Secondly, it was significant enough that the President himself was forced to make a statement, and while it’s still unfeasible to support us openly, he did the next best thing: he declined to make us the whipping boy. Third, the large number of people who showed are only the ones prepared to make their affiliation public. We’re still largely a covert movement. There are many… Read more »
TWS
Guest
If killing continues it will bury the movement in the Long run, unless of course it is a leftist movement. The differences between the alt-Reich and the much more violent leftist movements of the last century is that they have always been accepted by the mainstream left. Those murderers who bombed police, robbed banks and burned schools received money, jobs, and support at all levels right from the get go. Violent terrorists were hired by NYU. Others were directly funded by the Episcopal church. One wound up as a mentor to our latest leftist president. Everybody in the bifactional ruling… Read more »
Ron
Guest

What concerns me is all the attention of the Nazi meme by the media with no one paying attention to the socialism/communism aspects of the Left. Seems like a method to have the undecided choose the Left in preference in lieu being branded as pro-Nazi. For myself, I choose neither of these two extreme binary options being forced upon me.

Eclectic Esoteric
Guest

The dumbasses on the left get paid to go to the usual LARP only to discover the right is using live ammo. Expect a massive breakdown and stampedes in the safe spaces.

Bellator
Guest
There are a few easy things to do: 1. Control the imagery – announce that swastikas and white hoods are forbidden, and confiscate them if anyone pulls them out. Make sure everyone knows this is policy, and make sure everyone agrees to confiscate these items if anyone near them pulls them out. 2. If anyone is giving the Nazi salute pull their arms down and then escort them away. Have designated people to be the escorts, with radios so they can be contacted. The escorts need to be competent to take these people out of the event and keep them… Read more »
Al from da Nort
Guest

This_!

Aggie
Guest
This may be a stupid question, or a personal blind spot, but can someone explain something to me please? Why would the police side with the progressive left? This is the same ideology that has been embracing BLM and the War on Police at the expense of law enforcement officers everywhere, for years. Sometimes, at the cost of their lives. Why would they be stepping back from at least maintaining a semblance of order and preventing violence directed toward supporters of a friendly administration, one that expresses support for cops explicitly? I’m not getting this – it seems to be… Read more »
james wilson
Guest

Their instructions came from the top, which in this case is the major and the governor. They are just, well, following orders. When the choice if between the paycheck and pension, and right and wrong, you see the result around the country. When it doesn’t happen that way the power structure is not yet far left.

Dutch
Guest
Here’s a thought. Financially tie up all the leadership involved (the mayor, the governor, the police chief, the city itself) in lawsuits and litigation. Not to win the cases, but to make the process the punishment. If they choose to take a side under the color of authority, and things get out of hand, litigate them to the ends of the earth. Make their lives permanently miserable. They have a civic duty to keep the peace, and they failed to even try. Make them suffer. Financially destroy Charlottesville and salt the financial remains. Let it stand as a lesson to… Read more »
SootsMe
Guest

Yep. Especially in conjunction with fully educating the potential jury pool that their job is to deliver Justice, regardless of judges’ instructions, or the “law”. In other words, when you’re on a jury, hold out for the good guys, and fry the bad guys, no matter the legal shenanigans of the shysters in the courtroom…

dfacts
Guest
First off, most politicians, especially those “progressives” who are on the left, are facilitators for the Globalist New World Order. Secondly, the police are THEIR enforcers and protectors and take orders from them. Their goal is to destroy what is left of the Constitution and the republic, and the people who support it. Like it or not, we are in an actual war for our survival. At the present time, it is a slow-moving wave which is gaining ground, mostly through deception and stealth. It will not be long before that slow wave becomes a tsunami of genocidal destruction unless… Read more »
Alex
Guest

If the success of this thing in the long run depends upon the reputation rehabilitation of Nazis or Klansmen, it ain’t never going to happen, purity spiral or not. The optics won’t allow it, and both of these movements are anchored to historical losers.

Perhaps some time should be spent on how the left Interacts/coordinates with the Earth First!/Che Guevara/BLM folks for guidance.

Member

“If on the other hand the media screams “Nazi” and you’re out waving Nazi flags, the public will believe the media.”

Half the time, it’s leftist infiltrators or Deep State operatives out there waving Nazi flags. They will stand around the periphery of an event and make themselves available for photo ops. The dopes watching TV only see what the media masters want them to see. Our side can disavow all it wants, the media will not carry the story.

I thought Breitbart’s lead story today did a good job of describing the event, as did David Cole at Taki.

Guest
Guest
I’m not remotely convinced this was a loss for the alt-right. The dead and injured were all taking part in an unauthorized, violent counter-protest with Antifa and Anarchists. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. No apologies necessary. The proper response to the collusion between the Governor, Mayor, Antifa, and the police is to start scheduling these rallies every weekend, nationwide, focusing on blue cities in blue states. The MSM can only maintain the narrative for so long. It will crumble as blue state officials repeatedly deny permits, instruct police to stand down, and allow Antifa to run wild. Eventually even… Read more »
SootsMe
Guest

Sounds like quality entertainment, for sure. I just wonder who’s going to fill in for me at work…

Ivar
Guest

It is sad to see that the Commonwealth of Virginia has turned into the New Jersey of the South. If the country breaks up, as I dearly hope it will, the Federal employees who infest the E. half of the state should be burned out and run out.

Guest
Here’s what you need to know about the leadership of the Republican Party at the local level: They do NOT care who is in power in government. They DO care who runs the county party. They DO care who gets to go to state conventions. They DO care, in Presidential years, who gets to go to the national convention. They DO care about not being embarrassed when they go to Rotary, or Toastmasters, or the country club. They have no concern about the Kulturkampf. They’re aware of it because they hear people talk about it, but have no interest in… Read more »
Karl Hungus
Guest

the gop is toxic at every level. don’t vote for them, ever. your vote for the gop is a vote for continuing the slide. kill the gop, then vote for the party that replaces it.

Member

MrZ, you went off track when you joined these bozos at that conference.. It wasn’t that long ago that you rejected the concept of a honkie paradise.

Come back from the edge … And stop this talk of your kampf.

TBoone
Guest
” The cops lied about their intentions and the politicians lied too. Cops are mostly guys who like pushing people around and they are not giving up that privilege for anything. They would mace a nursery school if their bosses ordered it. In all future dealings with the cops, the underlying assumption must be that the cops are lying. Security needs to be designed with the assumption that the cops are working with the other side. Charlottesville is the proof of it.” Zman, a well reasoned article on the weekend and wise insight into lessons that should be learned from… Read more »
Tired of the savages
Guest
So let me get this straight; The right hates when they are lumped in with nazis and klansmen, but cops would mace a nursery school if ordered to. I guess it’s ok to lump all police together . I read several outlets, and have just recently started posting. Whether it’s here or WRSA, the recurring meme of “all cops bad”, is simply going to alienate a VERY large contingent of your readers. It’s old. But to be fair, it is your blog, and you can say and believe whatever you want. It’s simply asinine that you, of all people ZMan,… Read more »
A.T. Tapman
Member

By Their actions you will know Them.

SootsMe
Guest

The cops and the Muslims have the same problem: the “good” ones know who the “bad” ones are, and yet they do nothing to stop it. This makes them co-conspirators, and equally guilty. Their fate is the direct result of their lifestyle choices, unless they wise up and quickly…

Member
I think Charlottesville was a major setback, not to the so-called alt-right, but to the quietly angry, frustrated Americans who put Trump in office. They’re at work today hoping that the guy from Ohio was a liberal or at least a mental case who was not really a white supremacist. This is sad. Whatever the guy was or is, even if it turns out he was provoked or running from an attack, the damage has been done. Big Media, including Fox, are in a feeding frenzy. The The Civil Rights Division will descend. Conservative, Inc. was given a gift. They… Read more »
Karl Hungus
Guest

nothing in VA remotely involves Trump. or his supporters. it’s all just more media noise.

Member

I of course agree, but Big Media and Cult big shots don’t. LeBron James and the CEO of Merck just blamed Trump. This will go on for some time.

LetsPlay
Member

Who is lebron james?

Xennady
Guest
I’m not so sure about your evaluation. What is the civil rights division going to find, anyway? That Nazis today have no right to protest, unlike the Nazis who famously marched through Skokie, Illinois decades ago? What changed? Hmmm. Well, I know what changed. The Nazis today aren’t helping the left, unlike the Nazis of yore, who were a wedge aiding the leftist project to fundamentally transform American society. But Alinsky teaches us that we should make an enemy live up to their own rules. Thus, by precedent, this particular bunch of Nazis should absolutely have been allowed to march.… Read more »
miforest
Guest
Well , Charlottesville went as terry mcauliffe and the other democrats planned it. it was a trap and the alt right stepped into it. This was clearly and cleverly planned . spencer couldn’t be more clearly an agent of the left. Who hasn’t noticed the pattern from the san Diego trump rally, Berkley riots, Chicago protests, and now this. Quit getting baited into these traps. they are all the same , a right wing person plans an event in a heavily democratic area. Antifa make plans to show up in numbers and beat everyone who shows up. The police(under the… Read more »
Lurker
Guest

ZMan: “Some people get left behind and the Nazi larpers have to be sidelined.”

Isn’t that what Gavin is doing?

Phil Ossiferz Stone
Guest

I’ll just leave this here.

http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1502667845886.webm
http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1502666291103.webm
https://twitter.com/barnes_law/status/896520500339331076

The driver was ambushed and then pursued in a city where the cops were deliberately told to stand down, and where people had been threatening to kill him all weekend.

Read all of this, watch all of this slowly, and take it fully on board. I wish to hell our national leaders would, instead of merely reacting to enemy agitprop.

Alzaebo
Guest

A nice riot will get those DNC servers out of the headlines.

Tom
Guest

If someone, for whatever reason, wants to walk down the street with a Nazi Flag, or a rainbow flag, I don’t think its in Spencer’s power to stop it. And of course the (((media))) will use that photo.
A positive outcome could b the AR getting more experienced with lawfare. I know the cops where I live are afraid of Sovereign Citizens retaliating with lawfare, even the local FBI held a seminar and the cops not to interact with the Sovereign Citizens.

highdesert45
Guest

Evil, manipulative vanguard leaders…clueless, ignorant followers…and Americans, both white and non-white afraid to fight them.

Shreddage
Guest

NAZI’S a Right Wing group? We all know the National SOCIALISTS were as LEFT as they come. There are NO NAZI’s who are Alt-Right. The NAZI Party supported Hillary. They should be disavowed by ANYONE on the right.

Ned2
Member

I think the alt-right just died a very quick and relatively painless death.
The yahoos won.

Gary Eden
Guest

I won’t disavow anyone fighting against the genocidal monsters of the left. But we do need better imagery:

https://anepigone.blogspot.com/2017/08/deus-vult.html

Karl Hungus
Guest

it’s funny “listening” to people talk about the great nationalist tsunami that is building, as if it is something they can strategize about, or game plan for. an awful lot of people seem under the delusion that *they* can somehow redirect the flow of history by decisions they make or don’t make.

there is a societal pressure building up in the USA; of that there isn’t any argument. given that, either the underlying source of heat abates, or there is a traumatic rupture.

modpfw
Guest

well said,

modpfw
Guest

well said, I’ve found the whole Nazi thing becomes an impossible hill to climb when talking with normies.

sirlancelot
Guest

Funny how the left can harbor any deviant, crackpot or felon yet the right has a handful of misguided souls that we must purge from our ranks immediately !

Isn’t that playing by their rules ?

The “normies” aren’t joining us. They don’t want to hear it, they don’t care. Close ranks with our Brothers. Educate when possible, prepare for battle.

Evil Comes This Way

Rod1963
Guest
No. The Left is where the Left is because they have a organization, enforce discipline and dogma. They spent 60 years getting here. As for the contradictions, the Left is run like cult. The dynamics are identical and the follower blind themselves to them. You fail to understand we are trying to build a movement and recruit people – normies who are middle-class and even upper middle-class to our cause. We need them more than the gun nuts. You do not do this by tolerating a bunch of stupid, vicious wannabe Nazis in our ranks. Image means a lot in… Read more »
Zorost
Guest

Not sure why so many think this was a defeat for the alt-right.

This was the Boston Massacre in terms of propaganda/ radicalization, except all the deaths were on the other side. Rush Limbaugh is equating us with nazis, but at least he is calling attention to the fact that it was and always is antifa starting the violence, that the Leftist PTB supports them & works off it. Major immanentizing of the eschaton happened.

sirlancelot
Guest

Fine, we get rid of the the “nazis”, but please talk to your neighbors and friends. You’ll find out pretty quickly they want absolutely nothing to do with this cause. They bought into the liberal media propaganda. Nobody is joining us.

Sad to hear Rush Limbaugh is now calling us nazis. Amazing to see these so-called conservative talk show hosts now turning against us. Feel stupid buying Glenn Beck’s book a couple years ago. Just more fake media.

wpDiscuz