The Ideological State

Civic nationalism is an effort to define a nation ideologically, rather than biologically and geographically. Up until the French Revolution, a nation was primarily a related group of people with a common language, culture and history. The French were not defined by geography or ideology, but by blood. The lands they occupied were French lands, because they were occupied by French people. The people were loyal to themselves and, by extension, a king, whose duty it was to defend the interests of his people.

The French Revolution changed that as a nation came to be defined by geography and ideology. The challenge with replacing private government, where a king defends his lands and the land of his people, is in finding something to replace the basis of loyalty. That’s where the civic religion comes into the mix. Instead of people giving their soul to God and their sword to the king, both are pledged to the new civic religion, where the state is the object of worship and veneration. Citizenship becomes a sacred duty.

The Enlightenment ideas about public government were, of course, a reaction to the defects of the aristocratic regime. A good king makes for the best form of government, but a terrible king, who is greedy or stupid, makes for the worst for of government. The former advances the peace and prosperity of his people, while the latter damages it. Placing the fate of the people on luck, hoping the next king turns out to have the right mix of qualities for the age, seems like a rather silly way to run a society, when you think about it.

Public government addresses that by giving the people an organized way to get rid of bad rulers and change public policy. The trouble with public government is the same trouble we see with public property. When no one owns something, no one has an incentive to sacrifice for it or invest in it. The tragedy of the commons applies to all public goods, including government. The solution is the civic religion, where the identity of the citizen is tied to the success of the state. The state becomes the altar of the people.

This is why, in our current age, the ruling class drones on endlessly about democracy and the alleged threats to democracy. They don’t use the word democracy to mean people voting on public policy. They mean it as a synonym for the neo-liberal order and the cosmopolitan ideology that animates it. It’s why the wrong person winning an election is a threat to democracy, while the right person winning is a celebration of democracy. It’s also why the coup plotters in the FBI still feel smugly justified in their actions.

Ideological nations have two problems. One is they must endlessly whip the citizens into a fervor in order to keep them loyal to the state. Religions have the same challenge, which is why the preacher is always warning about some imminent threat to your soul or reminding everyone about God’s wrath. Piety is a full-time commitment and that applies to civic piety, as well. It’s why communist countries are drenched in patriotic symbols, songs and public performances, designed to keep everyone in a heightened state of ideological frenzy.

The other problem, a consequence of the demands of piety, is they become ruthlessly intolerant of dissent. “All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state” becomes the mantra of every nation built on ideology. If people are allowed to question the ideology that organizes the state, they are doubting the project itself and this must be viewed as a threat to the state. Therefore, civic religions must always become increasingly intolerant and narrow, in order to defend the state against challenges.

This is why the two great industrial wars of the 20th century were blood baths. When one tribe fights another for access to the river, they just want access to the river. They see each other has competitors for a resource. Compromise and mercy are possible, because their conflict is not personal. They may work up a good hatred for the other people in order to screw up their courage, but that’s a fanaticism of temporary necessity. Once the material dispute is resolved, the people have no reason to hate one another.

When two people make war over religion, because they see one another as an abomination or a direct threat to what defines them as a people, the conflict must be a fight to the death. There can be no mercy toward that which threatens your existence. This also means no limits. The total wars of the 20th made perfect sense to the combatants, because they saw the other side as devoted to evil. Incinerating a city is perfectly reasonable if you think the people in it are evil, because they support an evil ideology.

Again, this is something we see in our own time. Social media is full of post by Progressive fanatics, celebrating violence against people they call Nazis. It’s not that these victims are actual Nazis, of course. It’s just that the word now means “evil people” who the pious see as a threat to their existence. By definition, the pious must never show mercy to evil, as to do so means accepting that there is some virtue in the evil people that is worth preserving. Piety demands no mercy be given to the impious.

Now, the American ruling elite, for the last 75 years or so, has claimed that rather than being a nation defined by blood and soil, America is a nation defined by allegiance to a set of ideals, the American creed. That way, anyone who wanders in can be a citizen, as long as he pledges allegiance to those ideals. This was a post hoc justification for mass immigration in the early 20th century and a way to include the sons of recent immigrants into the national mythology. It sacralized the immigrant as the ultimate American.

In fact, Americans are now more loyal to foreigners than to one another. It seems that a third defect of the ideological state is that the ideology evolves a hatred of itself. Something similar has happened in Europe. The EU is, after all, an effort to apply the lessons of America to the European continent. Instead of defining the people biologically and geographically, a European will be an idea. In Europe and America, the idea of citizenship has curdled into self-loathing. What defines the people is their hatred of themselves.

This is not correctable. People join a cause or a movement in order to swap their individual identity for that of the group. In other words, people are driven to ideology out of self-loathing. A society based on ideology must therefore reward those most riddled with doubt and celebrate self-loathing as the highest virtue. The ideological state, regardless of design, must always become a suicide cult. It simultaneously boils off the skeptical and rewards the most fanatical. A society run by fanatics always ends in a blood bath.

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Member

This has got to be one of your clearest and insightful articles ever.
Ideology laid bare and explains a lot of what some know and how we got here, why we fight and where we are probably going.

Hoffer would be proud.
Proposition nation indeed.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Outstanding, truly.
Zman is the Ofelas, the trail-breaker.

Anti-Gnostic
Guest
Anti-Gnostic

Not really. The French Revolution replaced a monarchy unresponsive to the citizens with something they believed would better serve their individual and collective interests. There was no “replacing of loyalty”, as the people remained steadfast in their allegiance to their nation. Nor was there the creation of a “civic religion”—rather, it was a renewed sense of holding their leaders responsible for their actions. The people “own” the government by way of their ability to speak their mind about how officials are conducting their business and by their opportunity to install or remove those officials based on their performance, or lack… Read more »

Member

There’s a lot wrong with this comment, but the biggest is its overlong, pedantic, finger-wagging tone. I was going to reply, but just lost interest after three sentences.

tl;dr

Paul Scott
Guest

Yes, but as there was ” no replacing of loyalty” and association with traditional values, hence the blood shed

Anti-Gnostic
Guest
Anti-Gnostic

To Paul Scott–The blood shed occurred because the French people were tired of paying disproportionately high taxes compared to the other Estates and were unhappy because they demanded more rights. As a result, they rightly took control of the situation when the monarchy outright refused to redress their grievances. To BTP–What is ignorant is your knowledge of the French Revolution. The Third Estate LOVED their nation, but it was extremely rare for people of this ascribed status to make it out into another estate. They sought from their monarch reforms. When their calls for changes were repeatedly denied and/or not… Read more »

Member

“Nor was there the creation of a “civic religion”—rather, it was a renewed sense of holding their leaders responsible for their actions.”

Possibly the most ignorant statement ever uttered about the French Revolution by anyone. Nice work.

Jim
Guest
Jim

I have no argument that it began with “a renewed sense of holding their leaders responsible for their actions”. What it ended up with was the Reign of Terror. I also have no argument with your characterization of part of the Alt-Right, but as with Reign of Terror above there is a block you are missing.

Anti-Gnostic
Guest
Anti-Gnostic

It ended up that way because the earnest effort by the peasant classes to completely change their government to make it accountable turned into a bloodbath by competing factions, which led to a dictatorship. That is par for the course when a historic system is turned upside down.

Bit of a Jerk
Guest
Bit of a Jerk

Can someone remind me of the definition of “sycophantic?”

Paul Scott
Guest

You are looking for the word praise . You as you admit are a bit of a jerk.

Paul Scott
Guest

Yes I agree David Wright. Especially the repositioning of the meaning of words like Democracy. And the self-identity associated with political grouping.
Note how Zman ends, a grim forecast of the civil war.
Especially important are the traditional associations of kinship. geography, king, Country, and God.
The propensity to violence is now in my heart also. It just grew on me. I hate progressives and Democrats now.

bogbeagle
Guest
bogbeagle

Agreed. Excellent post. Worth sharing.

John Smith
Member

Well, the polls all said Hillary Clinton was gonna wipe the mat with Donald Trump too. Looking at that Gallup poll, I’d say they’re just another pozzed outfit parroting the deep state boiler plate.

In the real world, I think the first world has had its fill of the third one. The left can whine about victim politics all they want, but everyone knows that poverty and stupidity are old friends… and they know what lies ahead for those that pander to them.

Member

Saying that immigration is good or that it can be beneficial is not the same as saying that it is an unalloyed good. I’m not sure what people meant when they answered the pollsters, or in what spirit the question was asked. That poll could mean anything.

Guest
Guest
Guest

You can click through to the cross-tabs. The data for question 12A is the most revealing. They have been asking this question since 1965, periodically at first but at least once a year since 2000. The percentage of responses indicating that immigration should remain at the present level is remarkably consistent over 53 years, which suggests to me that these are mostly politically disengaged people. As long as there’s no crisis that directly affects them they will go along to get along. The percentage who indicate that immigration should be increased has increased steadily over time, but really accelerates in… Read more »

Ursula
Guest
Ursula

Guest, just wondering if you’d expand on why “the tech industry in America simply cannot survive without immigrants from Asia and India”? Is it a matter of education? Work ethics? Wages? Thanks for your thoughtful comment.

Guest
Guest
Guest

Insufficient numbers of Americans (especially white Americans) obtaining engineering degrees. Math is hard.

Hoagie
Guest
Hoagie

“Math is hard”. Well, so is medicine and science but if the money is there they will come. The only real reason there would be insufficient numbers of Americans in any profession from grape picking to engineering is the money. Foreigners will work for less. I’m sorry but I’ve been an employer almost all my life and I’ve found that if you pay enough the job will get done. Plus, as long as we allow our own citizens to sit around and collect “benefits” without working we will need people to do the jobs they SHOULD be doing. It’s not… Read more »

Member

Agreed. SS disability is becoming a fall back for lots of working class losers.
Why isn’t there a…..? Money
Why can’t I find a good….? Money
Nobody wants to do the job that I….? Money

I never bargain down on my contract work that I pay for.

Guest
Guest
Guest

Insufficient numbers of Americans (especially white Americans) are obtaining degrees in medicine and sciences also. Scroll down to Fig. 12-2 for a graphic illustration in the relative drop in science and engineering degrees awarded to whites. It has dropped a full 10 percentage points. https://www.nsf.gov/statistics/2018/nsb20181/report/sections/higher-education-in-science-and-engineering/undergraduate-education-enrollment-and-degrees-in-the-united-states I certainly won’t argue with you about the utility of paying engineers and scientists more money, and that may well be one of the reasons behind the drop in degrees awarded. Nonetheless, whatever the reasons, there are simply insufficient numbers of Americans obtaining science and engineering degrees. At a time when demand for the technical… Read more »

Kentucky Headhunter
Guest

Why study tech when employers can import/outsource your replacement for %50-60 of what they’d have to pay you? Better off learning HVAC rather than Python.

Lots of global tele-medicine happening as well, with Radiology being a front runner.

Get the H-1Bs out and wages will rise.

No Comment
Guest
No Comment

Guest, get your dick out of your hand and quit looking at pictures of the HB visa-mill that’s destroying wages and our technological infrastructure. What? Are you the CEO of Red Hat?

pyrrhus
Guest
pyrrhus

Degrees and majors don’t mean anything when it comes to writing code…

miforest
Guest
miforest

Engineering is not writing code. IT is but IT is only part of STEM

miforest
Guest
miforest

chip and Becky cant both major in engineering because engineering is not direct admit, my asian friend . since you like research , look up the slots available at almost any state university engineering school and you will find the number of slots for juniors , which is fixed , is much smaller than the number of freshman and sophomore engineering students. this is not accidental.

Member

If you are black or Hispanic and have average grades and medcat scores for admission you are four times more likely to be admitted to med school. If you are below average and black or hispanic and have below average grades and medcat scores you are nine times more likely to be admitted than a white person.

A.B. Prosper
Guest
A.B. Prosper

The tech industry doesn’t want to hire Americans. Americans expect to be able to do things like buy a house close to work and raise a family and work 40 hours Foreigners do not and will live ten to a tiny apartment in Silicon Valley In any case the entirety of the 90’s was engineering layoffs , Com Sci layoff (outside of the SV bubble) tech layoffs, outsourcing, downsizing, affirmative action and down skilling along with foreign labor replacement At that point for most people, tech which is hard and limited to about 10% of the population with ace math… Read more »

BestGuest
Guest
BestGuest

Once an HB gets into a hiring position it’s the end of whitey. (Even if *you* trained *them*. They’re allowed a group preference, you aren’t.) FWIW there is no such thing as a “work” visa. They’re all immigrant visas now.

rented mule
Guest
rented mule

i have a nephew who was adopted as an infant from india he has told us that he absolutely has a huge hiring advantage due to his ethnicity. seattle area. ceo of microsoft is a pajeet. the area is full of them and now their extended families. tech companies are among the worst. several years ago microsoft, Boeing and several other wa state companies sponsored a program that paid tuition for qualified american students, they only had to agree to stay and work in state for three years after graduating. This program lasted two years, I suspect it was less… Read more »

Arch Stanton
Guest
Arch Stanton

I beg to disagree. I have personal experience with this in Research Triangle NC, and this is, primarily, a labor cost issue, at least with the tech firms (SAS, Red Hat, etc.) in this area. It’s far less expensive to bring in the workers from east asia on one of the many Visa programs the US gov has set up. You also often have to look at who is the head of the tech firm. If he’s east asian, they’ll be predisposed to bring in their own cultural/countrymen. I’ve see this occur on several occasions.

pyrrhus
Guest
pyrrhus

Engineering degrees don’t have much value for writing code, whereas math ability does….

miforest
Guest
miforest

dead wrong guest . The number of engineering spots in colleges is limited and fully subscribed . corporations like disney will lay their IT department off and replace them with H- visa asians.
I am an engineer with decade of experience , I have seen this in many smaller companies too.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/features/disney-workers-forced-to-train-their-foreign-replacements

.

Rod1963
Guest
Rod1963

American tech industry can survive quite well without these foreign imports. Its just that their profit margins won’t be as big. Remember we went to the Moon, discovered the transistor, microprocessor, microwave ovens all without Chinese and Brahman wage slaves.

The fact is we produce more than enough engineers and programmers, In fact it’s a glut size the industry practices age discrimination on a massive scale.

The bottom like is that Silicon Valley wants low wage, sweatshop labor they can work like dogs without repercussions. This is why they are always screaming about “more” H-1B’s, etc.

Member

Asians hire asians in medicine, too.

Gravity Denier
Guest
Gravity Denier

Having explained why immigration restriction (at least in your part of the country and your industry) is useless, you then argue for it. Thanks for your support.

pyrrhus
Guest
pyrrhus

Wrong about tech immigrants. The best programmers are generally Americans, while the Indians and other Asians generally head for some administrative post where they can hire more of their compatriots….H1bs are generally hired because they are much cheaper indentured servants, or because the person hiring them is of their ethnicity. Very near sighted, but that’s the way it is….

Zeroth Tollrants
Guest
Zeroth Tollrants

“The tech industry cannot survive in America without immigrants from Asia and India.”

BULLSHIT.
You are either an idiot or a liar. Or both.

Martelevision
Guest
Martelevision

Of course there are contrasting surveys. Take for example the Harvard-Harris poll referenced here: https://mpcdot.com/forums/topic/8496-the-donald-trump-presidential-archive/page__st__32020#entry409664 Although the respondents generally sympathize with DACA recipients and favor merit-based immigration, nearly half of them want immigration cut to nearly nothing. A clear majority think that border security is inadequate, and about 2/3rds are in favor of eliminating the diversity lottery and chain migration. This is after almost three years of nonstop hysteria on the part of the corporate media, along with god knows how many decades of Pharisaic propaganda about our nation of immigrants. Despite all of that, immigration is still a winning… Read more »

calsdad
Guest
calsdad

Back when Ron Paul was running for President – I followed the whole thing very closely. My major reason for supporting Ron Paul was the same reason a lot of people support Donald Trump : BFYTY One thing that became blindingly apparent by watching that campaign was that the major polls are a few things: 1) Manipulated to generate public opinion in the direction they want public opinion to go. 2) Using just plain bad methodology, which equals bogus results 3) Even if 1) and 2) are not in play – they’re not reported thru the media accurately. The media… Read more »

Shrugger
Guest
Shrugger

Totally agree the left defines democracy as advancement of the progressive agenda and election of their candidates. Had long argument with loony lefty who insisted that “democracy died” in Nov 2016. I was unpersuasive.

Member

All these years whenever progs go on about democracy I would think that we have way different meanings of that term. There are a whole mess of implied assumptions that I never had. I took at face value the meaning of it, like in the dictionary.

Of course the U.S. is a republic (tee hee) as we all know with it’s own constraining definitions of how a ‘democracy’ should be applied.

Tax Slave
Guest
Tax Slave

Tell your loony leftist friend that “democracy” died September 17, 1787.

Zeroth Tollrants
Guest
Zeroth Tollrants

I guess it’s a good thing that’s what the Republican party pushes for, as well, huh?

LineInTheSand
Guest
LineInTheSand

The brutal truth: “Americans are now more loyal to foreigners than to one another.” The progressive or civic nationalist says, “I will destroy my countryman if he doesn’t affirm massive immigration.”

Why do those who care about me disavow me because I oppose massive immigration? Because “Americans are now more loyal to foreigners than to one another.” To the believers, if you don’t love displacement levels of immigration then you must be destroyed. To suggest even a minor cessation is to be beyond redemption. I must admire our enemies, that they can conjure such fervor.

Member

It seems that a third defect of the ideological state is that the ideology evolves a hatred of itself. Oh, the ideology doesn’t hate itself as such. The holy hate the unholy. This is exactly what you talk about higher up. Holiness is always relative, and there’s always room to be holier-than-thou. The problem comes in when you establish that the holy should rule — then people compete to be ever holier. This process always ends in violence. This is an inherent problem with democracy, more generally any ruling formula which incorporates “will of the people”. Or indeed any ruling… Read more »

LineInTheSand
Guest
LineInTheSand

It’s simpler than what you theorize. The hate is only for straight, traditionalist white men. Later, the hate will be for white women and white homosexuals, but those two groups are too self-absorbed to see what’s coming. It’s really that simple.

Cerulean
Guest
Cerulean

Leonard, what you say applies to the current ideology. I don’t think it has to apply to every ideology.

Here’s Webster’s take on the word:

1 : visionary theorizing
2 a : a systematic body of concepts especially about human life or culture
b : a manner or the content of thinking characteristic of an individual, group, or culture
c : the integrated assertions, theories and aims that constitute a sociopolitical program

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

I think Leonard has neatly solved the difficulties with Zman’s “hates itself”. How does that work?, I asked. Yes, the holy hate the unholy as traitors to their skin.

“Honor thy father and mother” doesn’t mean “obey your parents” (in murder? in theft?), it means “live in such a way as to bring honor to your parents, your line, your town, your people”.

So the unholy shame their “skin”, that is, their people; thus, (white) nationalism is an unholy betrayal of the fairest of the fair, those woke savants who are evolved beyond the knuckledragging neanderthals.

rented mule
Guest
rented mule

well if it always ends in violence…
I don’t expect to see the other side of the inevitable, learned a thing or two from haji. one way or another by god.

Thatwasme
Guest
Thatwasme

Word

Member

Napoleon once said, “Cannon killed feudalism. Ink will kill modern society.” There is much truth in this because the destruction of something is often times built into the origins of things. From ink ideology came and to simple ink it will return. Live by the ink; die by the ink. One thing I find interesting is how the ideological school of Destutt de Tracy and the positivism that succeeded it rejected religion because of its reliance on metaphysics, and then evolved into a conglomeration of abstractions with no basis in reality other than a wish for things to be and… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Therefore my disdain for the sages and their semantic pissing contests. They think themselves above the common superstitions, refusing to consider any data spoken in other than their own approved dialect- yet they still cannot explain anything outside their narrow bounds. They refuse to see the remarkable universiality of common superstition.

This tells me that real explanation is not what they seek, but one-upmanship. They credulously believe “we can never know” or “we can never solve that”, because they’re too busy demanding “Link, please!”

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

PS- racial identity is one of those superstitions. My beloved lefty friend wanted to quibble about the definition of “white”- so I said, “if I walked up to a crowd and punched a brown person, do you think anyone would question what color I was?”

Member

This is the modern equivalent of Samuel Johnson refuting Berkeley’s theory that nothing is real by kicking a rock.

BestGuest
Guest
BestGuest

If a majority of immigrants adhered to the ideals of the “American Creed” we would not be in the place we are now. The truth is most immigrants are economic migrants and opportunists and care nothing about ideals.

Bit of a Jerk
Guest
Bit of a Jerk

But they don’t adhere to the ideals of the “American Creed” and it’s probably because of their innate tribalism. They couldn’t adhere if they tried, which most of them won’t.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Yup. The civic nationalists are trying to harness the power of “everything for the Race” as “nothing beyond the State”- and then moving that to “sacrifice for the World”.

BestGuest
Guest
BestGuest

I was making an effort not to be harsh. Because the USA is saddled with certain populations not covered under the “. . . to ourselves and our posterity” clause. 😉

Member

The point being that nations cannot rely on creeds for integrity, but must be grounded in real things, people, and places.

Learn from the Jews. They go around the world preaching the gospel of ideas, and after their ideas make places less safe run to soil populated by people of their race.

Everything has its time and place. Creeds are tools of religion. Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s and to God that which is God’s.

DeBeers Diamonds
Guest
DeBeers Diamonds

Islam keeps the Sephardi under control quite well. The higher-IQ Ashkenazi have been troublesome in Europe, even if they convert.

The Ottomans historically welcomed Jewish settlement, there would be nowhere near the level of Muslim enmity towards Zionism if they had agreed to keep the Palestine mandate united under the Hasehmite monarchy. As the century moves on, Israel will identity more with its Semitic neighbors and less with Europe. I don’t know which way the diaspora will go, but I would prefer they do right by us and make aliyah.

Martelevision
Guest
Martelevision

Yeah, immigrants don’t adhere to our creed in large part because their people didn’t create it. Even if they agree with the ideas, they don’t respect the tradition that holds them sacred. When I look at e.g. George Washington, I feel a surge of pride that this great man was among my ancestors, if not directly by blood, then at least by ethnic/cultural/religious ties. When a Mestizo squatter or an African hood rat looks at George Washington, he sees only a foreign idol, at best, and at worst a hateful reminder that his own civilization is inferior. Thus, multiculturalism demands… Read more »

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

Best Guest, that is cow excrement. No matter what the majority of immigrants believe or claim to believe, their DNA remains the same – i.e. not European White. Their biology heavily influences their personal behavior and values and thus communal culture. A Pakistani programmer can claim to luv muh constitution all he wants, but he’ll still reek of curry, hair oil, and no deodorant. He’ll still want to bring in more of his own type so as not to feel different or isolated, and to exploit and lord it over them in keeping with his home, DNA-inspired social order. There… Read more »

Severian
Guest

That’s why you’ve got to build in some method of absolution. Hate yourself, yes, by all means… then go get absolved, so you can go right back to hating yourself without ever doing anything about the self-hatred. Martin Luther — a world-champion self-despiser — really missed a trick there (have you ever read Erich Fromm’s Escape from Freedom? He thinks he’s describing the psychological process by which one becomes a Nazi, but it’s really the process by which one becomes a Frankfurt School Communist… like Erich Fromm. (You’d think that lack of self-awareness would be a problem for a professional… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

AMDG? Thanks.

Oh, and fuck Niehoffer (?), that “first they came for the commies, then they came for the commies, and when they came for me, a commie…”

Zeroth Tollrants
Guest
Zeroth Tollrants

Father Niemoller.

Unfortunately, today a better phrasing would be-

“First they came for the Nazis, but I did not speak up because I wasn’t a Nazi…”

Din C. Nuffin
Guest
Din C. Nuffin

Martin Luther; “When my heart is cold, and I cannot pray as I should I scourge myself with the thought of the impiety and ingratitude of my enemies the Pope and his accomplices and vermin, and Zwingli, so that my heart swells with righteous indignation and hatred and I can say with warmth and vehemence: “Holy be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done!” and the hotter I grow the more ardent do my prayers become.”

Member

I don’t get the move from the fact that some Americans have come to hate themselves to the idea that all ideology involves self-hatred. It seems to me a contingent fact that when the American Left seized on the race question as the means to subvert society, the fact that they were of the same race as the bad guys in their narrative made self-hatred a possibility, especially as their attacks became more broadly targeted. People join movements in order to become part of something greater than themselves. That doesn’t imply that they hate themselves.

Cerulean
Guest
Cerulean

The headline of the poll you linked says a “Record High of 75% of Americans Say Immigration is a Good Thing.”

The fine print says: “Samples are weighted to correct for unequal selection probability, non-response, and double coverage of landline and cell users in the two sampling frames. They are also weighted to match the national demographics of gender, age, race, Hispanic ethnicity, education, region, population density, and phone status (cell phone-only/landline only/both and cell phone mostly).” No reference in the methodology blurb about citizenship.

So when Gallup says “Americans,” they mean “people living here.”

Wolf Barney
Guest
Wolf Barney

An idea that they’re increasingly forcing on us is “race doesn’t exist–we’re all one race, the human race.” If you buy into that nonsense, then you see blood & soil nationalism as foolish and it’s easier to view America as a proposition nation.

The problem for them is that American citizens are increasingly bumping into the flood of immigrants and learning just how much race is real, which results in more “we’re all the same” propaganda to counteract the threat of tribal nationalism.

DeBeers Diamonds
Guest
DeBeers Diamonds

I do see pushback against multikult, but most whites are happy to be subsumed into liberalism, at least while it doesn’t make any demands of middle class tax increases. The alternative identity we offer is scandalized by alt-right rioters. It will take apocalyptic (Somalia) levels of leftist violence before “ethnostate” becomes mainstream.

Denny Bilson
Guest
Denny Bilson

white girls will put their lives on the line for diverse men

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/07/25/swedish-student-elin-ersson-stops-plane-deporting-afghan-man-leaving/832071002/

You guys lost

GET OVER IT

LineInTheSand
Guest
LineInTheSand

For all the wonderful qualities they have, no one is easier to manipulate than white girls. All your story demonstrates is that your side controls the media. An hour after my side controls the media, all those white girls will agree with my side.

MtnExile
Guest
MtnExile

“You guys.”

Do you include yourself in that? White girls favoring Afghans doesn’t make you a winner.

Tax Slave
Guest
Tax Slave

Well, he has no dick anyway.

Tax Slave
Guest
Tax Slave

“Police pointed out that passengers who refuse to obey a pilot’s orders while on board a plane can face fines or up to six months in jail.

Authorities also said the Afghan man was in custody and would be deported, though they did not say when. ”

Who lost, assmunch?

Alois
Guest
Alois

SD are now the biggest party in Sweden. Some cultist throwing a fit is not relevant.

LFMayor
Guest
LFMayor

Weak tea, probably weak stream as well.

If you only knew the shit I hope and strive for.

Simon
Guest
Simon

Only the wimmin with the leftist mental illness. Thank God they are a minority.

MtnExile
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MtnExile

One other problem with the propositional nation: the proposition itself is a “living” idea. It changes depending on the requirements of whatever group has the whip hand. The Civil War was in large part a struggle between the idea of a propositional nation and one based on blood and soil: the South defended its land and people, and the North defended the notion that their values and way of life were universally sacred. The South lost; and ever since, the Yankees have had control over the proposition. What it means to be American today is far different from what it… Read more »

Christopher Chantrill
Guest
Christopher Chantrill

This needs to be connected to Nietzsche and “the priests” who talked us out of our natural and physical hatred of the Other and into self-hatred and Original Sin.

Member

A civilization is only young once. There’s no going back.

LineInTheSand
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LineInTheSand

Fight dude. Don’t give up so easily.

No Comment
Guest
No Comment

When the time comes – be surrounded by spent brass

Tax Slave
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Tax Slave

It doesn’t mean an old man can’t punch a young punk in the face and knock him on his scrawny ass.

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A.B. Prosper
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A.B. Prosper

That is truth. The US still thinks it has a frontier for the taking. That delusion keeps us from growing up and living with limits on land, energy water, transit, work and so on. We are for better or worse, quite developed and need to live as developed nations do This probably means more government but if we won’t pay for what we need or can’t get an effective one than we need to reverse course on development We seem to be doing that which is probably for the best. We can either revolt and replace or more likely just… Read more »

calsdad
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calsdad

LOL. “need to live as developed nations do” WTF is that supposed to mean? Are European nations “developed” ? – because if so your assertion would mean that the population will only reproduce as sub-replacement level, government ponzi scheme like programs which depend on an ever growing populations to keep the politician’s heads from swinging from gallows will then force an acceptance of immigration from all corners of the globe….. and the “more government” you claim we will probably need will do stupid shit like regulate the size of bananas that can be sold as well as every single other… Read more »

Doug from West by God Virginia
Guest
Doug from West by God Virginia

This comment below by another fellow, exemplifies literally what myself and every Freeman I know in the sphere of my life, and a long over due gestalt that is probably the only remedy suitable to repair the foul evil damage the deep state and swamp, (apologies, I repeat myself here), have tainted our Republic with, and the systematic effects of dividing us to conquer us has sown. 24/7/365 uninterrupted broadcast, no commercials, no narrator. A mike on the gallows so we can listen to these crooks and traitors lament and cry in fear, as they employed terror and fear as… Read more »

Member

What joined a country like France together before the Revolution wasn’t blood, it was tradition. Various regions of France, with distinct cultures and from different barbarian-tribal backgrounds were held together by held together by a tradition of loyalty to the local and eventually the national sovereign. The idea that a nation (ie a tribe) should be coterminous with a state is a product of the French Revolution. The national countries we see today like Italy and Germany were put together after the Revolution because of the ideals propagated from the revolution. These countries are totally artificial and are just as… Read more »

DeBeers Diamonds
Guest
DeBeers Diamonds

Various regional dialects were stamped out in order to create a national language. This process was never completed in Spain. In Europe, only Germany has any sense of federalism.

The Right in the US does identity with America, but the nation is not congruent with the state. It hasn’t been congruent since the Civil Rights Revolution. The common identity formed by the World Wars and Space Exploration is genuine, but has been debauched by immigration and Hollywood.

Aldo
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Aldo

No tradition will make a society filled with Negroes into Japan.

Dutch
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Dutch

I agree with Z’s premises, but have trouble with the last one. Where does this institutional self-loathing come from? Z seems to think it is inevitable. Fine, but why? I can come up with only two reasons. One is that a significant number of people really do hate themselves. I don’t really understand that, because life is what you make of it, and good attitudes and habits are yours to exercise and live by. (“Always look at the bright side of life”, they sing from the crucifixes, in Monty Python) Two is that this self loathing drives people to positions… Read more »

Cerulean
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Cerulean

I don’t think the people who hate us actually hate themselves. If they start to, they are absolved by hating us harder.

Dutch
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Dutch

I can see that, substitution of hate for others to avoid self-hate. What I am trying to figure out is why we, as individuals, or our western society, as a whole, is doomed to lose agency in deciding the sort of cultural rules and assumptions that we will live under. I completely agree that we live in a largely dysfunctional self-loathing system. I am looking for a good reason to accept that this is an inevitable course of events. I want to close the “Step 1, many people hate themselves and us, and join movements that reflect that”, “Step 2,… Read more »

Bit of a Jerk
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Bit of a Jerk

Step 2 is to is to dispossess white people, except for a few of the Shabbos. Step 3 is that J*ws rule over a stupid, docile brown population, which may be violent, but easily controlled.

C’mon Dutch, .. you know this.

Cerulean
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Cerulean

Dutch, the first sentence of my comment was my main thought here. These people who hate us do not hate themselves. Period. To the extent some of them do, I doubt it’s of much consequence politically. We need to stop trying to understand the situation by imagining our enemies hate themselves. It’s not enlightening and it’s not productive. For the garden variety leftists, I suppose they get a kick out of feeling superior and righteous. That and maybe freebies. That doesn’t require self-hatred. For the ones who call the shots, I’d look at economics. Trillions are at stake. Take a… Read more »

Cerulean
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Cerulean

Hint: the shot-callers don’t hate themselves either.

Dutch
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Dutch

OK, I will concede the self-hate argument. In my own experience, the people near me who lean hard left are miserable and full of fury, and they were so under Obama as well. No making them happy people, at all. To put things a different way, I agree with “follow the money”, that Alinskyite tactics have worked for the left, and that people want to protect the flow of freebies that the system gives to them. The warping and rejection of fundamental Christian principles, and the falling away of the traditional family unit. The hostility to whites, especially heterosexual white… Read more »

Cerulean
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Cerulean

Dutch, I appreciate the long response. There’s a lot to ponder in what you’ve said, and I don’t have answers. I’m going to reread your comments a few times and think about them. Maybe a descendent of this conversation will pop up in the future. I wasn’t looking to score a point in the discussion. Unlike your experience, most of the lefties I know seem to be pretty happy with themselves. I don’t know what’s in their hearts and psyches, but they seem pretty well-adjusted. They just believe they are morally correct. One change I’ve made in the last year… Read more »

Dutch
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Dutch

Best to you, too. The “follow the money” argument explains so much about so many things. The Pollyanna-ish optimistic part of me would like to think that we can work out these fissures in our culture over time, build something better, and not shed too much blood in the quest to get it done. There is another voice that says “no way Jose”, that “things won’t end well”, and that the clash of civilization’s philosophies, sooner or later, always leads to serious bloodshed and the burning down of it all. I hate that, but it is probably the proper way… Read more »

Alzaebo
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Alzaebo

I totally agree with Cerulean.
Not self-hatred, but marketing a war for personal advantage.

calsdad
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calsdad

There’s an awful lot of “just do it” that gets spread around the popular culture. To the point where I think some people simply have no mental ability to restrain themselves from doing anything. When the things they do inevitably lead to personal repercussions – they end up a place where they hate themselves because of their inability to control themselves. I’ve seen this as far back as the AIDS crisis back in the 1980s. During that time I remember some of the homo-advocacy groups getting really pissed about the fact that the government had not found a cure yet.… Read more »

Bruce
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Bruce

I agree with the first few commenters – this was an outstanding post.
The religious/ideological/fanatical aspect of civic nationalism is why no one in the mainstream talks much about secession/separation for the two sides. It would be like dividing the Church.

Karl Hungus
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Karl Hungus

First it becomes a murder cult, then it becomes a suicide cult.

wjkathman
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wjkathman

Zman has been on fire lately. He’s establishing himself as the best blogger I’ve ever come across. “The ideological state, regardless of design, must always become a suicide cult.” There’s a quote for the ages! Z has a particularly keen understanding of the significance of religiosity to the human animal. Just because our society has abandoned traditional religion does not mean that it has liberated itself from the cultic propensities of our species. The West simply swapped out Christianity for Progressivism. Should they eventually achieve total victory, Progressives will prove themselves as tyrannical a sect as any that have previously… Read more »

DeBeers Diamonds
Guest
DeBeers Diamonds

Why the Right loses. Only 17% of the people surveyed are willing to boycott gun banners. Stricter immigration is also more popular than the GOP.

https://www.axios.com/danger-zones-f-corporate-advocacy-brands-trump-559cb44b-2ef4-41e6-8a61-2c599249e962.html

Anonymous Reactionary
Guest

The weird thing is how bugman leftist types all like commodity generic products, while “respectable conservatives” prefer the expensive brand name that pays for corporate virtue signaling. The consumer base of each side acts in the complete opposite manner of its expected behavior.

De Beers Diamonds
Guest
De Beers Diamonds

Marketers say that brand loyalty becomes fixed after 35, which is why ads are targeted in the 18-35 group. When it comes to durable goods, they target 25-54. Boomers are flush with cash, so they can afford to spend on brands. Millenial leftists have student debt payments, and prefer spending on restaurants/travel. Generics are thus preferred, and the public perceives them as of higher quality thanks to Aldi, Costco and Whole Foods. There are no true “econobox” cars in the US, even KIA has moved upmarket. Increasing urbanization and Uber is reducing the incidence of car ownership among youth.

Moran ya Simba
Guest
Moran ya Simba

Really solid writing. A state is either ideological or biological. In the latter case, the more ‘traditional’ case, it is an abstract mega-tribe, a huge Darwinian alliance against the rival mega-tribes. In this view it makes sense to want the biological descendants to also occupy the territory perpetually. In the ideological state, allegiance to an ideology, an idea virus in a way, is demanded above and beyond allegiance to one’s own genetic interests. At some level the two views are mutually incompatible, most of all b/c an ideological state is biologically the equivalent of promiscuous; your family can have been… Read more »

Matt
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Matt
Denny Bilson
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Denny Bilson

Right wingers are isolated incels

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1flcGrb81M

Bit of ia Jerk
Guest
Bit of ia Jerk

How ’bout you Denny? Can you entertain us with tales of your latest conquest? I imagine beautiful women must just throw themselves at a guy like you. I hear they love soyboy f@ggots.

miforest
Guest
miforest

my wife and kids will be surprised to hear this.

Member

How do I think like a Native American so I can become a citizen of a Tribe and get diversity and repairation cash and prizes?

My mother didn’t deliver me on a reservation so I can’t be a native American nation anchor baby.

PawPaw
Guest
PawPaw

tz1; That’s easy in my neck of the woods. I’m just across the river from one of the largest Indian reservations on the west coast. They have no gas tax, sales tax, or car licensing fees. They pay no state or county property tax, nor are they required to purchase state fishing or hunting licenses.As registered tribal members, they each receive monthly checks from the B. I. A. AND are eligible for EBT cards from the state. And the icing on this cake? They each receive about 3800 bucks a month from the casino on their land. But you were… Read more »

Matt
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Matt

The gas stations on the reservations I’ve stopped at in Oregon may have no gas tax, but they charge the same as everyone else. The extra goes into their pocket just the same.

Yak-15
Guest
Yak-15

“The lands they occupied were French lands, because they were occupied by French people.” NO, this really, ignores the vast history of the disparate parts of France being brought into line with Paris. At one time, Occitan, Basque, Breton, Provençal, Catalan, Alsatian, etc were everyday languages spoke in their various regions. These linguistic differences reflect(ed) the enormous ethnic and cultural dissimilarities that pestered France for most of its existence. They are also indicative of the regional identities that most of these groups retained (even today) as many saw (see) Paris as a ruling foreign elite. It’s wise to remember that… Read more »

slumlord
Guest
slumlord

Peasants to Frenchmen, by Eugen Weber goes into this in great detail. It’s a book that should be required reading by all in the Dissident Right. Still the unification of France was made possible not only by conquest but by an underlying commonality of the People. Civic Nationalism works, to a degree, as long as the legal conceptions of identity align with intuitive ones. The important thing here being human intuition. The reason why America “worked” for so many years is because it’s political apparatus, almost instantaneously, worked against the ideals of its constitution. Despite its proclamation that all “men… Read more »

Pimpkin's Nephew
Guest
Pimpkin's Nephew

This is all true – and interesting – but ‘picayune’ in context. Z-man wasn’t concerning himself with the development of what we call ‘France’, but in the reality known as ‘France’, hardly a ‘proposition nation’, but a “blood and soil” nation, much as Italy was after Rome emerged as dominant and reduced local and regional thinking to ‘national’ thinking well before the Punic Wars. The million plus Frenchmen who were cut down in WW1 weren’t harboring grievances about ignored variations in their Romance dialects, or the ‘infamy’ of public education that stressed Parisian French as the language of the country.… Read more »

Member

Excellent essay, here’s a link to a good image of what’s going on now. Same (((tribe))) funding and staffing today as in 1933.

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archy
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archy

Thank you for the very nice printable targets! I needed something with a little splash of color with which to verify my rifle’s 200-meter zero!.

Candide III
Guest
Candide III

Up until the French Revolution, a nation was primarily a related group of people with a common language, culture and history. The French were not defined by geography or ideology, but by blood. The lands they occupied were French lands, because they were occupied by French people. This is simply incorrect. The French were transitively defined by their allegiance to the French Crown and the House of Bourbon. What is now the French language was still only a regional dialect; cultures and histories of, say, Provence and Alsace-Lorraine were wildly different. It was the anti-monarchical revolutions that had to redefine… Read more »

Thorsted
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Thorsted

That, the nation is a recent concept is the story told by historical social constructivists. The israeli military historian, Azar Gat have looked at that claim in his book;”Nations: The Long History and Deep Roots of Political Ethnicity and Nationalism” and humans have always been organised around kinship groups according to him ; https://www.amazon.com/Nations-History-Political-Ethnicity-Nationalism/dp/1107007852/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1532278956&sr=8-4&dpID=51VZ8bBTtqL&preST=_SY344_BO1,204,203,200_QL70_&dpSrc=detail

Aldo
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Aldo

I’ll wait for you to list all the great multicultural societies that were in better shape than America today.

Dr. Mabuse
Guest

You sure are right about the worship of “democracy”. When I was young, I used to enjoy voting; I looked forward to it, elections were exciting. And lots of other people felt the same, as turnout was pretty high – we were all participating in this together. Now, even my husband shares my boredom with voting. We had an election in Ontario a month ago: the Conservatives won, which is good, but not in our very liberal riding in Ottawa. The people here stuck stubbornly to the Liberals, and afterwards we realized that not one candidate canvassed our house. Canada’s… Read more »

Dr. Mabuse
Guest

If you want to see a perfect illustration of civic religion trying to overwrite the older, normal national identity, watch this scene from “La Revolution francaise”, where Robespierre reaches the apex of his power, by instituting The Cult of the Supreme Being. He’s obviously a true believer, and thinks that the rest of the country is following right behind him. But you can see the cracks in the reaction of the crowd: yawning, fidgeting and finally laughing. “What’s going on?” asks one worker. “Oh, he’s still yammering,” answers a woman. “Huh. Wake me when he’s done.” It’s really quite funny,… Read more »

Member

People should study the malignancy of the French Revolution a lot more. It was an attempt to obliterate a people. Consider:

– Murdered king & nobility
– genocide in Vendée
– temples to Reason & so on
– placing a whore on the altar at Notre Dame
– finding and obliterating the relics of French heros
– destroying the relics of the people themselves, like the Oriflamme
– psychotic recalculations of time; new months and so on
– absurdities like the metric system
– etc.

Bad stuff, fam. You try to kill things you hate; so it seems clear the Revolution hated the people.

DWEEZIL THE WEASEL
Guest
DWEEZIL THE WEASEL

Since none of us were alive when the Frogs initiated the National Razor, we have to rely on history books about the event. The words of JFK come to mind: “…those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable.” The masses had had enough of famine and privation. They identified the perpetrators and took violent action. Sadly, they were co-opted by some very smart, Godless and corrupt despots who steered them in a very wrong direction. Keep in mind, the privation aspect. This is what is missing with all of the shouting, fist-shaking, and empty threats of Antifa, and… Read more »

james wilson
Guest
james wilson

Memo re JFK quotes- all that he ever said worth repeating was taken without attribution from the minds of others.

Aldo
Guest
Aldo

All you need to do is read the following to see how homogenity is key to a lasting civilization. https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B01AL2SP76/ >A finalist for World Magazine’s Book of the Year! “The Myth of the Andalusian Paradise is essential reading. It will soon find its place on the shelves of premier academic institutions and in the syllabi of pioneering scholars.” –Antonio Carreño, W. Duncan McMillan Family Professor in the Humanities, Emeritus, Brown University “I could not put this book down. The Myth of the Andalusian Paradise constitutes a watershed in scholarship. . . . Fernández-Morera brilliantly debunks the myths that for so… Read more »