Way back when the West was pressuring the apartheid government to commit suicide on behalf of its people, they did a remarkable thing. They sequestered their nuclear program, making sure the information and material would not fall into the hands of whatever came after apartheid. It was remarkable, because no other state has voluntarily abandoned its program for the good of the world. Governments just don’t do that, but the South Africans did and a huge potential problem down the line was averted.
The reason this is worth thinking about is there are other unstable states, with lots of military technology. Pakistan is an obvious example. There is a better than even chance they have sold nuclear technology to other Muslim governments. They have most certainly been working with North Korea. Israel has nuclear weapons and they have advanced delivery systems. These are two countries that could fall into chaos or have their government overthrown. It’s not likely at the moment, but it is possible.
A bigger concern is America. There’s no getting around the fact that America is in bad shape in many important ways. The wizards in the Federal Reserve have been able to use creative ways to maintain the debt bubble, but everything comes to an end eventually. The demographic changes going on in the country are creating very serious fissures regionally, ethnically and economically. Just look at how aggressive and radical the political talk is these days. America looks very brittle right now.
If you are doing long term planning for the EU or a European government, you have to be looking at America and thinking about the Crisis of the Third Century. It’s not a perfect analogy, but it is a pretty good one. Like the Roman Empire, the American Empire is militaristic, the dominant military power and politically fragile. Like the Romans, America appears to be critically short of intellectual firepower in its ruling elite. Who knows, maybe Washington has a lead pipe problem, but it does have an IQ problem.
You have to think China, Japan, Europe, even the Russians are looking at America and wondering how it keeps teetering on without some serious reform effort. Further, you have to think the failure of the Trump administration to get anything done is another data point suggesting the American political class is malfunctioning. A healthy political elite would have made sure to co-opt Trump, given him some easy victories and made sure he turns his talents and political support toward defending the system.
Instead, the result of the Trump years is likely to be further confirmation that the system is hopelessly broken. Maybe the Democrats have some great reformer in their ranks who will rise in the primaries this year. It seems unlikely, but the funny thing about greatness is no one ever sees it before it becomes obvious. Still, what the political class has favored, guys like Bush, Clinton and Obama, suggests they have managed to create a system that selects against, at an early stage, anyone with the any amount of talent.
Now, America is probably not going to fall into a period of military anarchy as happened to the Romans in the third century. America is a sea-based empire, while the Romans were a land-based empire. Chaos, if it comes, will first be in the possessions. Perhaps that’s why the Trump administration is so eager to get out of Afghanistan and Syria. It could be that the defense establishment has finally realized they are being bled dry by these commitments. In order to preserve the empire, they must shrink it.
On the other hand, in an age when controlling the financial system is worth more than controlling territory, the chaos will show up first in the economy. We’re two months away from “hard Brexit” with no signs of a soft resolution. The EU had to compromise with the populist Italian government on their budget. The Yellow Vest riots, which everyone is told to ignore, are becoming a serious issue in France. All of these problems in Europe are being driven by the impossible realities of their economics system.
Whatever your favorite collapse scenario, all of them assume that the American political class will not be able to keep the plates spinning. At some point, the divisions in American society, be they cultural, racial or economic, become so large that the core of the empire becomes ungovernable. If you are on the outside looking in right now, America certainly looks like a continent wide version of 1970’s New York City. The difference being, New York City was not armed with nuclear weapons and a massive military.
How the rest of the world could “manage” the entropy of empire is hard to know. China could simply work to reduce its exposure to the empire and wait for it to withdraw from the Pacific Rim. South American governments seem to be using the current chaos to export their troublesome populations. They are using the techniques of Progressive urban gentrification to clean up their underclass. A weakening and chaotic America could very well be a good thing for them, at least from a demographic perspective.
European elites are suffering from the same disease as their American counterparts, so it is unlikely they are thinking too far ahead. On the other hand, the demographic situation in Europe is salvageable, so they have more time. France is not condemned to becoming a majority-minority society. No European country is assured that fate. America is guaranteed, short of something completely unexpected, to become a multi-racial, multi-ethnic country, with a large white minority. That’s a mathematical guarantee.
If it turns out that the model of the American empire cannot function with a majority-minority core and the core becomes ungovernable, then the world is going to have a very serious problem. After the fall of the Western Roman Empire, Europe fell into the dark ages for roughly a millennium. On order to avoid that fate, the world, particularly Europe, will need to start planning and preparing for life after America. That means figuring out a way to manage the inevitable decline of the American empire.
“No other state has voluntarily abandoned its program for the good of the world”
Not true, Libya did in 2003. They voluntarily gave up 100% of their nuclear program and the US even dismantled their entire facilities and brought them back to the US to rebuild and study. About 10 years later we still let Gaddafi get killed so I’m not sure what other dirt he had but he could not have cooperated more with handing over his nuke program. I get what you are saying but facts matter on that point.
The state of Libya’s nuclear program was, at best, notional. They basically gave up a dream. The South Africans could build nukes.
I’m more concerned about France.
If it falls to Islam, then so do its nuclear weapons. I happen to think that France could be in Islamist’ hands within a decade, or two … all done Democratically.
I doubt it would be acceptable, or rational, to nuke the French … so I could envisage the need for a ground invasion. Again.
That invasion would have to be pre-emptive; undertaken before the Islamists gain control.
Let’s assume that we all believe the pessimistic options being expressed here are truly going to happen – the end of American constitutional government- for example, would you get out and work politically – at the street level – to slow and perhaps reverse the process, or just whine a lot? Asking for a friend.
Right now everything works, although badly, because the currency is still stable and the Federal Govt., despite its insolvency, can still pay its bills.
If you think about it, the 50 states don’t currently have to chip in to this Ponzi scheme. They get way more money in infrastructure and welfare benefits than their citizens cumulatively pay in Federal taxes.
It will get interesting when states aren’t bribed to follow along. Very interesting. Talk about rogue states. No state wants to fund the liabilities run up by a neighboring state, thus you would have a chain reaction of animosity between states and regions.
America appears to be critically short of intellectual firepower in its ruling elite.
But will intellectual fire power matter to the dumb down masses? Look who the Dems are choosing to rebut Trump’s state of the union, Stacey Adrams?
Z: “Whatever your favorite collapse scenario…” LOL
The Roman empire was a maritime empire. Establishment of the widespread republic on the peninsula was land based, but the Punic wars forced the formation of a navy and the Roman expansion thereafter involved co-option of the Carthaginian trade routes, which involved getting rid of the pirates who established themselves in the vacuum created by the destruction of Carthage. Much of the destruction of Roman family farms was due to the lowered cost of grain after piracy was controlled by Pompey, and this contributed to the unrest evident during the late Republic. The Empire finally came into being after a sea battle at Actium, which also confirmed that the Empire would be to a great extent be based on sea power with the acquisition of Egypt, and which sealed the fate of the Italian farmer. After this it was cheaper to grow grain in Egypt and ship it to Rome via Ostia than it was to grow it only a few miles away in Campania and ship it to Rome by cart.
Further evidence of this maritime aspect of the Empire is the partially discredited, but still talked about theory of Henri Pirenne about the reasons for the so called dark ages. He proposed that because the Romans no longer controlled the trade routes of the Mediterranean, that the control of that sea fell to the Muslim hordes and this drop off trade resulted in the collapse of the continental economy and the resulting isolation of that part of Europe from the rest of the world, and that the resurgence of the continental economy was in at least a partial restoration of that trade and the development of the silk road, which was, in a way, another restoration.
I don’t think any of this detracts from the main thrust of the article, though.
It occurs to me that by sequestering their nuclear program, the Powers that Be in South Africa knew they were committing national suicide and did it anyway. If they actuallly believed their multi-culti BS, they would not have felt the need to keep nukes out of the hands of the post-Apartheid government.
They didn’t believe it but the US was able to turn the entire world against them and S.A. felt those long odds. They figured they’d be overthrown sooner or later by the virtue signalers and by walking away they’d get out skin somewhat intact
The only other option if they had ballistic missiles would have been to glass the major cities of the US and its allies which would have ended the world.
They also weren’t willing to do that and anyone not willing to do that should not have nukes. This is why once the tritium decays too much we will no longer be a nuclear power
Its expensive to maintain and we are unwilling to use them. we can’t even easily get men to fill the silos who are sober and willing to launch
https://thebulletin.org/2015/02/a-year-later-responding-to-problems-in-the-icbm-force/
Absolutely, the commoners betrayed by the elites. Sound familiar?
In the speech, since broadcast on Japanese television, Nakasone said: “The level of Japanese society far surpasses that of the United States.
There are many blacks, Puerto Ricans and Mexicans in the United States whose average level is extremely low.”
Japanese Prime Minister Yasuhiro Nakasone
Huh? Nakasone was back in the ’80s. Anyone in a similar position in Japan who is so outspoken today?
The “inevitable decline” is pretty far advanced. FedGov is either losing or surrendering its grip over the territory it does not control or even attempt to control. States defy (nullify) Fed drug laws. Cities nullify Fed immigration law. Feds make zero attempt to defend its borders, which is a tacit admission that it does not even possess a territory, in which case it’s not even a government–by definition. FedGov does nothing but fiddle as Rome combines with oxygen. Well, except for their enforcement of anarcho-tyranny. And that merely emphasizes their total lack of legitimacy.
Correction: They DO do more than enforce anarcho-tyranny: They also routinely lecture the world at large on democracy and corruption (of all things!), which further illustrates their illegitimacy.
You are quite right to describe America as “brittle.” The word “decrepit” also comes to mind.
Everybody–and I do mean everybody–now knows, albeit inchoately, that voting is an exercise in futility; a charade. Soon, however, that knowledge must gel in people’s *conscious* minds, the inevitable result of which will be that *everybody* will turn their backs on voting as a means of making political decisions, the main ones of which are, and have been for a long time now, made by the courts anyway.
And people are going to abandon [the fiction of] voting as a means of making decisions because they will very soon realize that voting is the means by which “they” can gain power over “us.”
Then what?
Like the Roman Empire, the American Empire is militaristic, the dominant military power and politically fragile. Like the Romans, America appears to be critically short of intellectual firepower in its ruling elite.
True, but maybe not the most important parallel. By the second century, Augustus’s moral reforms had been largely forgotten or ignored. The population, sensing the increasing insecurity of life following bad emperors like Caligula, Nero, and Domitian, turned hedonistic and nihilist. The historic Rome was dead as an ideal.
Bread and circuses — the dole and daily Colosseum carnage — were the focal points of life. Remind you of anything?
Eventually, after the “Indian summer” of Hadrian and Aurelius, the rot really took hold. Constantine’s adoption of a new religion for the empire seemed to many like the only way out. Will the remains of western civ resort to something similar? Islam? It’s not too early to start asking.
It’s not just demography, it’s about a fundamentally different view on immigration and immigrants.
Heritage Americans consider themselves immigrants and are usually proud of their immigrant past. That’s why ‘civic nationalism’ is such a big thing in the US, while the term hardly even makes sense in Europe, where the rising nationalism is about opposition to civic nationalism – in a European context, ‘civic nationalism’ is synonymous with ‘globalism’.
Compounding this benevolent attitude to immigration is the fact that America has native POC with as much historical right to be called Americans: there were blacks, Indians and Hispanics living on modern-day US territory at the Declaration of Independence, people you can’t really tell to go home to their own country.
In Europe, ‘immigrant’ is a neutral word at best, but to most Europeans, it’s synonymous with ‘foreigner’. Most immigrants in Europe came here in the last thirty years, hat in hand, either seeking jobs, asylum or handouts, and they aggressively self-segregate.
Repatriation is a daunting, but possible, task in Europe, because there are countries to send them home to, because Mohammadans are so repulsive and because integration (and miscegenation) is minimal.
“Mohammadans are so repulsive and because integration (and miscegenation) is minimal.”
Don’t forget “rape babies”. Sweden has a bunch of New Men from that.
Quite simply, America First means Americans first. If you are not a nourishing teat of the she-wolf suckling Romulus and Remus, we must disengage. Goodbye Afghanistan, goodbye Syria, goodbye Israel, goodbye sub-Saharan Africa. Otherwise, Romulus will finally turn on Remus and kill him. Will Romulus be the white brother or the brown? We are at an inflection point, and TPTB are making poor choices. The Roman empire devolved into Europe, i.e. tolerable fallowness. The Mayan empire devolved into Mexico and surrounds, i.e. unending squalor.
The model here for the collapse of America is not Rome, it’s Sung-dynasty China. (btw, even though Rome fell, Byzantium held on for another thousand years, and by the time Byzantium finally fell, a reconstituted Europe was back on its feet.)
The Sung surveyed their situation with a clear-eyed honesty. They admitted that a substantial chunk of the Empire had been successfully overrun by foreign barbarians, and that there was no immediate practical way to recover the lost territory. So they withdrew to smaller, defensible borders, bided their time, and wrote some cracking great poetry. Eventually the Empire recovered its strength and got back the lost territory. Of course, this whole cycle happened all over again three or four more times, but that’s China for you. We’re watching one of their cycles right now. (HINT: /we’re/ the barbarians.)
But in US, it’ll be more like Sung than Rome: once the initial anti-White shock and awe of a Caramel Harpy presidency wears off, Americans (which is to say, White goyim) will rub the soot out of their eyes and finally admit what’s happened: their country has been successfully undermined and overrun by Jewish traitors and foreign barbarians. USG will be essentially de legitimized, Whites will retreat and regroup within solid defensible borders — which will still be a huge amount of turf, North America is an enormous place. The debt problem will be solved by being repudiated/canceled; no foreign creditors will dare say boo to 100 million nuclear-armed, extremely angry White men.
Once they see the jig is up, the Jews will scurry off back to their gangster bolt-hole in the Middle East, with as much of their stolen hoarded gold as they can carry. Alexandria Of-Color will rule as queen over a mountain of skulls and ruins, while her armies of ooking rape-apes try desperately to climb the mile-high electric fence to get into the nice neighborhood where the “good schools” and white wimminz are. They’ll be met with a hail of bullets you can see from space.
I like a good story, well told.
Let’s hope that’s how it plays out.
Once again I’ll step up and take the contrary view for the sake of argument. Your observation that control of the financial system is now more important than control of territory is exactly correct. Think banks, not tanks. As long as the US Dollar remains the world’s reserve currency the US empire will hold together, so the challenge for the elite is about maintaining global demand for US Dollars to allow the Imperial Capital to continue running massive deficits. This is why we have the CIA.
There’s an entire cadre of countries in Central and South America that are failing and will find it advantageous to adopt the US Dollar as their native currency, either explicitly (like Ecuador or Zimbabwe) or implictly (like Panama or Costa Rica). Venezuela’s currency has collapsed and Maduro is on his way out soon, and the new guy Guaido will be under extreme pressure to adopt the US Dollar, at least implicitly. After Venezuela comes Honduras, Guatamala, El Salvador, etc. After that comes Africa.
Trump will probably the last Republican President to hold that office and all indications are that he will lose bigly in 2020, in all likelihood to Kamala Harris. The Democrats will likely keep the house for the remaining lifespan of anybody reading this blog. Republicans will probably keep the Senate. The Democrats will open the borders, and the Republicans in the Senate will happily sell out their people for a few shekels.
Internally, America is going to follow the same vector we’ve been following. The white population’s death rate is higher than its birth rate, so it will continue to dwindle in size. The family reunification policy behind our current immigration system will continue to drive immigration from non-white countries. America is destined to become a multicultural polyglot. That is baked into the demographic cake and there’s nothing anybody can do to change that.
There isn’t going to be a collapse. There’s just going to be a slow sink into socialism as America’s younger, browner, poorer population pool uses the democratic political system to confiscate assets from America’s older, whiter, richer population pool via politicians like AOC and her cohorts. Collectively, whites are simply too small in numbers and too old to do anything about it.
So here’s the cue for the keyboard warriors to scratch out comments about how they’re going to pull a Rambo and put a stop to this sh*t…
Every subset of our species is differentiated based upon its unique evolutionary history, which is the end result of at least tens of thousands of years of selection pressure. Each grouping possesses traits that are optimum for the environment in which it evolved. The northern European cohort of the species evolved in an environment (high latitudes) that was subject to large seasonal extremes. One enduring trait that arose from this gauntlet of seasonal hardship is a proclivity for innovation. In other words, we possess a native talent for innovating solutions to difficult problems. You seem to be fixated on a Rambo scenario to future problem solving. That is narrow minded thinking.
Yep, I don’t get the civil war/Balkans talk. We’ve seen the future in Texas, California and New Mexico, and it’s not whites rallying around their identity and fighting back.
It’s moving away or insulate/isolate but never fight back, never organize. I hope that will change, and I’ll do my part to help that happen, but I’m under no illusion that it will take a long time or that it may never happen.
Yes, demographics is destiny. I’ve written extensively here about the experience of my former home state of Colorado, which went from reliably red with small patches of blue in 2000 to a completely blue state in 2018. There’s nothing to do but tolerate it or pack up and leave.
Demographics dictates this will happen on a national level in the next 20-30 years. The people around here who believe that we are somehow going to pull a magic rabbit out of our hat and reverse this trend are simply delusional in their thinking. We can’t even muster a majority support among whites to significantly decrease legal immigration or to deny welfare programs to illegal immigrants.
On the upside, I am sensing a business opportunity in assisting the American middle class transfer assets out of the jurisdiction of the US Government…
I agree that we should all be looking at or working on back-up plans. That’s why I’m rooting for Europe to get its shit together. Might offer some of us early birds a chance to migrate.
Assuming that we stick around, we’ll just have to work with the system that we have. Despite my post, I do think that whites are slowly waking up to what’s happening. Also, with California and Texas, it was Hispanics who took over and people had the option to leave. In addition, those states haven’t seen overt anti-white rhetoric and public policy. On a national stage, we’re beginning to see just that.
Obama kept the hate whitey talk to a minimum. The new crop of POC politicians likely won’t be as canny, nor will they need to be. That’s going to push a lot of whites to our side. It’ll be too late to save what we had, but maybe a chance to build something new.
Of course, we can always just claim to be Hispanic and get a pass. It’s going to be fun watching the TPTB push back against whites using the Hispanic get-out-of-jail free card.
Colorado hasn’t been from nonwhites per se but more from trustfund babies and new-agers from the coasts moving there.
From experience here California Whites are well aware of the issues and have a much stronger group identity than you might think
I went to lunch today with some pretty normie friends and even they were remarking on how Whites self segregated at the restaurant. This behavior has been growing more and more common as is quietly giving preferential treatment to each other, caveat that said person is not a doper .
They didn’t talk to each other but they sure weren’t associating with non White much either
In any case not to put to fine a point on it, there are no “normie” remedies for fighting back. Courts don’t work. Between fraud and just raw numbers elections don’t work.
How precisely would someone fight within the system?
You can’t. Its a hell of a lot to ask of normal people to become outlaws all at once and throw everything away. Now enough of a number of those people can embrace that path if and only if they have something explicit worth fighting for.
Leave me alone and I want something better is a temper tantrum not a policy.
On the Right unlike the Left you must want power to specific ends or no one will fight.
No one is going to rise up without that And note the Yellow Vests who are maybe European Right not American have very specific goals including getting Macron out. They also likely have hidden goals as well
That’s what you need not libertarian leave me alone bullshit
Given I see a complete lack of ideas on what the new society would be like and how to you know live in 2017 instead of an imaginary 1980 that never was, there is no reason for anyone to act together .
I’m not willing to risk anything because you hate paying taxes or don’t like gun laws.
You are asking normies to fight a civil war for nothing. Hell radicals won’t do that.
Right now the only people with any ideas on what society ought to be are Neo Nazis like the Northwest Front the Deus Volt crowd and maybe the Federalist Society
Start there and once you can come up with something worth fighting for than you can complain. Otherwise complaints of non action waste everyone’s time.
Put up an idea or shut up.
I’m skeptical of European demographics. From what my Euro-Diaspora friends and family tell me, France will be majority non-French before 2040 and the non-French European cohort is very small due to the economics of France. Sweden and the UK are probably a decade or two behind but have shown no signs of reform either, and could accelerate to catch up to France. Germany would not be far behind and Spain has some of the lowest birth rates on the planet within rowing distance of Morocco. Put it all together and the mestizo American problem begin to look almost quaint (particularly given the criminally delta between that ethny and black africans).
I’ve often thought we were lucky to get Mexicans versus Muslims.
And I’ve often thought the opposite. If Europe had been invaded by relatively inoffensive Hispanics, I suspect Europeans had not woken up to the danger before it was too late.
This is a good point. Muslims don’t exactly keep a low profile. Hard to ignore what they’re doing to your country.
Something to ponder certainly. Although nobody really “wakes up” until it’s basically too late anyway it seems.
Short-term, yes. Long term, uhhhhhhh?
I don’t want to live in cold Mexico El Norte, enjoying PEMEX-style mordida and a slow-speed collapse/civilwar with cartels. We have our own kind of corruption , like Gov. John Corzine & Bernie Madoff (which is really a JP Morgan Chase hustle), or the whole banking/construction collaboration.
Muslims don’t do “interest” but there is always a vig to pay.
The TFR in Morocco is at replacement as of 2018 , its probably going to go lower soon. Many of these migration issues will eventually correct although they’ll correct faster if the welfare for foreigners is cut off
In any case demography is reversible. the historical method has been massive bloodshed and given Whites control the food supply?
You can figure it out from there.
In any case France is in a civil war right now albeit a warm not a hot one. That’s better than the US can manage . They won’t go down without a fight.
It’s not North Africans that Europe needs to worry about.
Blogger AlFin recommends “islands of competence” as a means to survive imperial collapse.
Actually, Europe will be the leading indicator of collapse and rebound, and the US will go to school on it’s successes and failures. Within the US, California and Illinois are likely to lead the way as failed states due to bankruptcy (there is literally no way to pay for the public pension promises). But all of this is long overdue and ultimately cathartic. We desperately need a return to serious hardship and a reboot of natural selection pressure. The idiots running DC are a symptom of the disease and the polity cannot return to health without first ridding itself of infection. The cancer is probably at Stage 2 right now. The longer we wait, the worse it gets.
Maybe, but collapse scenarios typically assume there is no prior fragmentation or semi-dissolution of the country. I mean, just cut California off and let it become its own country.
Its not that clear cut . There are at least as many Right/White people in California than in Kansas. President Trump got 4.5 million votes here, 1/3 of them.
And note to every Hillary supporter was not Liberal. the Clintons are in some ways quite Conservative and she didn’t run as a Left Wing wacko anyway but as a Center/Left
Frankly it won’t be this easy since the whole US is a muddle. Instead it will be a power grab and a matrix of shifting alliances.
Instead of hoping for the easy out through collapse which is perfectly natural it might be better to have an alternative., As crazy as it sounds a well disciplined and ruthless Right could take power and maybe run the entire enchilada
Leave me alone is a childish temper tantrum from the Right, Do as I say is adulthood
Those of us still here in California have no illusions, living with all the crapola within a not-too-long drive from our front doorsteps. Living in the belly of the beast makes one, uh, “woke” to the situation.
H. was attempting to run as a National Security moderate who would answer the phone at 2am. She is corrupt in so many ways, it doesn’t matter about her qualifications/experience.
In our soon to be socialist future the pensions of Illinois and Kali will be shored up by the national government, in other words, by you.
This is also a very serious problem for us internally. Internal migration which is already happening will only increase.
Are we going to leave behind functioning military bases in places like Mexifornia? The Mex cartels with F 18s, nukes and aircraft carriers?
They will use that stuff on us not the EU or China.
When we leave an area we need to make sure those things we can’t take pose no danger to us.
We can do the world a good turn by doing ourselves that favor first.
Note that here in California, most of the bases are Navy and Marines. Ships can sail, and the Marines can pick up and leave on a moment’s notice. In my neck of the woods, North Island and Camp Elliot (east end of Miramar) are likely loaded with tactical nukes, but the stores are adjacent to big runways with transport aircraft standing by, ready to move them out within minutes. They are also isolated from any easy quick overrunning from the civilian side of things. The guys who figure this stuff out are no dummies, and they plan for contingencies.
What happens when most of the troops or at least enough of them are not white?
Look at unit pictures for demographic data.
High-IQ, psychological continuous qualification, and motivation are required to remain in important units like Nuclear Surity, and I would guess that they are trying to get qualified Other Colors, but staffing with qualified Whites.
Ukraine gave up thier nukes.
Actually not. The GRU saw the collapse of USSR at least 10 years ahead and manned all important points with loyal Russians. Ukraine was independent but without army you can not storm heavily fortified and armed Russian guarded nuclear facility. So Ukraine made good face and just said that they give up. That is why Russia now has bunch of new modern weapons. In the 1990 Russia was looted like hell but greatest values were brought underground on time and they survived until now.
Whatever the cause of eventual collapse, we all can at least exert constant, steady, memetic pressure, calibrated for the audience and erring on the soft side, waged more and more IRL:
In the enlisted ranks of the combat arms, in reserve and guard units, in VFW and American Legion Posts, in AA meetings, halfway houses, and prisons, at the fantasy card games in comic stores, on the walls of stalls in truckstops, under the wipers of cars parked for church, at racetracks, rodeos and gunshows.
Amazing spot by Wrath of Gnon at Twitter: 1938 book about fall of Rome anticipates fall of America (or, as he says, Western Civilization) in almost every respect:
https://twitter.com/wrathofgnon/status/1090376899014971392
The parallels are uncanny. Nice find, thanks for sharing.
I went looking for the Eileen Power book, “Medieval People” quoted. Found it available on Project Gutenberg. IF i read the information there correctly, the quoted material is included in “The Precursors”. https://www.gutenberg.org/files/13144/13144-h/13144-h.htm Quite a sobering read…
“…Europe, will need to start planning and preparing for life after America.”
All eyes will turn to what happens in central Europe, especially Germany. With America absent from the scene, will a powerful Germany seek cooperation from its neighbors? Or not? Will the right regain its rightful place in politics? What will the liberal sycophants who toadied to the US do without American muscle behind them? Will Jews remain in Europe as nationalism rises around them and their financial ties to their NY uncle Shlomo are frayed? Will Russia seek to regain lost territories? It seems from my perspective that things could go out of control over there pretty quickly. I haven’t even thought about the Balkans…
Usually I’m the pessimistic one; and certainly long term is bad. But there are positives. Although I despise the Fed, there’s effectively no inflation. Trump is having problems ending the ongoing wars, but there aren’t any new ones, nor are there likely to be, at least on a large scale. The Iraq debacle will hang over war discussions for this generation, the way Vietnam did for 30 years. Command and control of the nukes is secure. Defense spending is <4% of GDP. The national debt is 100% of GDP, manageable. Unfunded liabilities for SocSec and Medicare are huge, but people are dying sooner, and Oregon, California and other states have legalized "voluntary" euthanasia. So give it another 30 years, by which time the world will be run by the ChiComs.
IMO the failure of the Iraq war will never resonate in our culture like the Vietnam war did, for a number of reasons. We did not have a good declared reason for fighting in Vietnam, but we had 9/11 for Iraq (a real stretch, but we have it). The resolution of the Vietnam “conflict”, as it was called, was a repudiation of who we thought we were, culturally and militarily, coming out of WW2. This element of the war is underestimated, IMO. Vietnam stripped our political class, especially the Dems, of any sense of their knowing what they were doing. Dr. Strangelove struck close to home on this one. Finally, the lower class males were used as wholesale cannon fodder, and their ordeal was plastered all over, including the whole POW mess. Iraq may have confirmed a lot of what we suspected about our own culture and leadership, but it did not rewrite the book as Vietnam did. One important thread of our broad history will use Vietnam as the dividing line between the “good” before and the “bad” after.
Speaking of ChiComs, have absolutely wretched demographic trends as well. They’re not going to run anything, they’ve been lending us money to buy their manufactured goods and their birth rate has fallen off a cliff. The conditions on the ground are really not great for most of the country. They have a first world population that’s basically the size of Germany’s, which isn’t bad, but I really don’t think they’re the heavy duty world dominating players they’ve been talked up as.
IMO. The US today is analogous to the Roman Empire in the first century BC. It has outgrown the governing structure that served it well for centuries, the p9litical class has figured out how to game the system for their own personal benefit at the expense of the general public, and demographic change is destroying the country’s foundation.
We’re most likely going to go down the road of Caesarian with a patina of constitutionality for the rubes, as existed during the early principate era. So let he proscriptions commence,
BTW the dark ages began with Islamic conquest of egypt, not the fall of Rome.
Yep. There was a century and a half after Rome collapsed and the Gothic states in Europe and Africa continued the classical civilization. The Muslim invasions collapsed it completely.
Its popular to brand the US as evil because we dropped a couple nukes on the Japs in WW II, but I’m convinced that we would have had some sort of use of nukes by now without that example of what could happen.
Everyone move to North Dakota when everything goes down, more nukes than Carter has pills.
Finally, just saw the US dept for 2018 increase again heading towards a trillion a year. For you economics geeks out there, where does the dept load vs GDP finally become unmanageable? Especially when we get free heath care, free collage, subsidized housing.
Funny, and I can’t recall the guy’s name, but he was one of the last Japanese soldiers to formaly surrender 20 years after the war, remarked the nuking of Japan made perfect sense. Basically it was “hell, we would’ve done the same thing!”
LeMay’s firebombing campaign had effectively run out of targets. All that remained were more tactical targets like bridges and rail lines plus shooting up what remained of Japanese shipping. Then the options were drop the nukes, starve them out or invade. The first was probably the most humane.
Anyone who self-identifies with the State to the point of using “we” in describing its actions is a tosspot not worth reading further than its first instance.
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This is the problem with the collapse of Rome comparisons, the Roman people didn’t have hundreds of millions of firearms and the Roman government didn’t have thousands of nuclear weapons. On the bright side we will be able to livestream the collapse until the internet goes down.
“the Roman people didn’t have hundreds of millions of firearms”
Actually, the disarming of the Roman people was one of the things that led to their decline, and why relatively small bands of barbarians were able to conquer whole provinces. Just read Gibbon. Those firearms in private hands might be the only thing that saves us. It’s a feature, not a bug.
This – in the early Republic, every male citizen was a soldier with weapons and kit in the house.
The “left” is only big government because that is where their bread is buttered, where their pension is guaranteed, or where their “social benefits” are funded . Oh sure, there’s a few true believers, but my pull it out of my ass number would be less than a percent.
Hundreds of trillions in debt and long term liabilities does not bode well for team blue. I think their loyalties will be, let’s say, fluid. I am not as concerned about the browning of the nation either, because a couple of hundred million YT’s running around is a tough thing to overcome. Might turn out pretty bad for them though.
I don’t see the apocalypse scenario, but I do see urban (blue) areas devolving into a Road Warrior society for a short time. Cities aren’t really centers of trade and industry as much as they are centers of government and government workers. Take a gander at the top ten employers in every major city. Either way I have a little farm in an out of the way area to, hopefully, ride out the storm.
The shorthand is, “gibs gotta gib”, then they move on when the gibs run out.
There’s strong evidence that the German scientists could have put better guidance systems on their rockets near the end of the Second World War (Werner Braun says they had this figured out) but they knew they were going to lose, and so withheld the info as a bargaining chip in order to avoid the Entnazifizierung/Fragenbogen (Denazification) period and to get jobs in America. Operation Paperclip (and our little trip to the Moon) suggests it was a good hedge on the part of the scientists. My guess is that most of the people who’ve been using America as Israel’s Luca Brasi to Bibi’s Don Corleone (as the TDS guys put it) have their bug-out bags ready, and some toys and technology to take with them when it all falls. My prediction: a brain drain from USA to Israel when it all falls. Look up Arnon Milchan and what he did. Jared Kushner and Steve Mchunin will probably help each other steal copper wire from the walls in the White House when it goes down.
Jacobsen’s “Operation Paperclip” was terrible. I never really understood the moral condemnation of the program, either. These were highly trained, and better yet, highly experienced experts whose biggest crime was being on the wrong side. It would’ve been a waste to not exploit them; and I certainly was no moral issue for the Russians.
Jacobsen’s book had a lot of problems, starting with the title. A Nazi was someone who was a member of the Nazi party. Plenty of people in Germany weren’t party members (though membership was good for the career) and everyone from Max Schmelling to Ernst Junger told Hitler (albeit politely) to shove off. But for someone like Jacobsen, anyone who was German (and hell, probably is German today) is a Nazi. The quote might be apocryphal but one of the “Nazi” scientists was supposed to have said something like “Building rockets is science. Deciding where they go is politics.”
I recall seeing somewhere a while ago that the maximum membership of the Nazi Party was in the percent teens of those eligible.
While I agree that the United States is much farther down the road to demographic chaos than most European countries, I’d point out that France is an exception. French births are at least 20% Muslim (probably closer to 25%) and will rise over at least the next generation due to differing birth rates. Non-Muslim blacks likely account for 5% to 10% of births, again likely increasing over the next 20 years due to birthrates.
It’s baked in the pie that France will someday be ~30% Muslim and ~10% non-Muslim African. Granted, that’s not half of the population, but it’s close, and Muslims and Africans are civilization killers. In addition, that’s without immigration. Throw in some immigration, and you start to get very close to 50% of the population at some point, certainly 50% of the under-40 population.
The map for sickle cell testing in France seems to show that French births may already be near 40% non-white, but I’m assuming that there are some issues with that evidence. Regardless, even if France stopped immigration tomorrow (which will not happen), it would be looking at a Muslim (and African) population in 20 years or so that makes governing the country very difficult.
The people of Africa, in the countries once ruled over by France, see themselves as French, in the sense that everything in France is understood as open and available to them, and free for the taking. I don’t believe that the former subjects of any other former colonial ruler in Africa see things in quite the same way. It has to do with the way the French actually worked to help their African subjects, once upon a time, rather than simply plunder. No good deed goes unpunished.
The UK made greater capital investments in its colonies than the French. Ghana had a higher per capita income than South Korea when it became independent. Bit of a myth that the Europeans ,especially the British and French, “just plundered”.
The difference in French and British colonialism is one of an almost existential nature. The French ideal, following the Revolution, was to make the colonial subjects French. The British didn’t give a damn about how the locals lived, as long as they didn’t butcher each other in the streets. The Brits were in the game to make money, the French to spread civilisation.
It is a testament to race realism, that the British model worked better than the French.
We are saying “Europe” as if they are some collective whole when the reality is that the seams are already heavily tearing in the European “Union”.
What you will likely see on an unaltered current trajectory is a bifurcation akin to something like pre-Berlin Wall collapse. Everything east of Germany which hasn’t completely embraced the suicide cult will split off from Western Europe which is circling the drain almost as rapidly as the States.
A fragmented United States with no ethnic demarcation lines like the former Yugoslavia, and nuclear weapons. At present, it looks like we are headed for a situation with multiple strongmen, nuclear armed, with the impetus from foreign adversaries to use said nuclear weapons on other strongmen and territory within the continental United States.
I am glad I am thinking about this in the morning, and not at night.
The US Northwest will merge with Anglo-Canada. Everything between California and Texas will become La Republica del Norte. The Plains, Midwest and South will become several agrarian non-entities, a la Ukraine.
By universal consent, everything between Fredericksburg and Portsmouth will be radiation-sterilized, and known as “The Dead Zone”. Say Hallelujah!
“It was remarkable, because no other state has voluntarily abandoned its program for the good of the world. Governments just don’t do that, but the South Africans did and a huge potential problem down the line was averted.”
They would have been better off with partition and consolidating themselves in a state around Capetown with that nuclear program to protect themselves but that wouldn’t have allowed de Klerk and his class to spend time in Davos without being given dirty looks.
“Israel has nuclear weapons and they have advanced delivery systems. These are two countries that could fall into chaos or have their government overthrown. It’s not likely at the moment, but it is possible.”
The odds of Israel having its government internally overthrown and their nuclear technology falling into terrorist hands isn’t going to go any farther than a badly plotted Tom Clancy novel. The Arabs cry about Israeli nukes for obvious reasons but nobody among the serious powers is worried that an Israeli nuke is going to detonate in one of cities.
“You have to think China, Japan, Europe, even the Russians are looking at America and wondering how it keeps teetering on without some serious reform effort.”
The best way to think of it is that the US is the last half-dead body on top of a pile of corpses. Even with the demographic issues you point out, the country still has a lot of accumulated wealth and power plus favorable geography to fall back on while the other states have a lot bigger problems of their own that makes everyone go along with things out of inertia. China’s getting old, Japan is running out of babies (and looks like they are going to jump on the immigration bandwagon soon), Russia is dysfunctional once you get outside the major cities, and your mileage varies depending on which part of Europe you are looking at.
The Ukrainians gave up their nukes. Qaddafi gave up his WMD programs. Worked out great for both of them.
The lessons of Ukraine and Libya are not lost on Kim Jong-Un.
And hopefully not lost on Australia as well.
I hate the murdering little prick, but you can’t really blame him, can you?
“…but you can’t really blame him, can you?”
Why, yes, yes I can. Cannibalizing his whole nation and it’s people, literally starving them for his own wealth, power and glory.
Like all psychopaths, a spawn of Satan.
“The Arabs cry about Israeli nukes for obvious reasons but nobody among the serious powers is worried that an Israeli nuke is going to detonate in one of cities.”
True – Israel does not want to destroy the Arabs, it wants to rule them. Not much good if all the land is a nuclear waste site.
The long term realignment of Israel will be towards its Arab neighbors, eventually becoming part of the Arab League. The question will be whether or not this realignment is completed before conditions in the West get bad enough to promote mass aliyah. A minor Jewish population still persists in South Africa, aided by all attacks on synagogues being quickly cracked down upon by the government.
If you ignore the positives of those countries and mitigate the worst issues facing the US then ,yes, the US will look better.
Are you a journalist?
There were a number of stories circulating a few years back that the Saudis could obtain nukes from Pakistan, if Iran gained nuclear weapon capability
Some of them still out there:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-24823846
Saudi Arabia has invested in Pakistani nuclear weapons projects, and believes it could obtain atomic bombs at will, a variety of sources have told BBC Newsnight.
Not only have the Pakistanis most likely supplied nuclear tech to other Muslim countries, but it appears there has been cooperative funding – and possibly agreements to supply weapons on short notice if needed.
” it could obtain atomic bombs at will, a variety of sources have told BBC Newsnight.”
How do you know that?
Oh, Right, “BBC Newsnight” told you.
Dark Ages is not an appropriate term for the era that invented the universities and clocks and had the Merton calculators and much more. There was a lot happening in this time, as in all times (post Stone Age which seems to maintain the status quo for long periods of time), but referring to it as Dark Ages it’s really anti-christian propaganda much like the Galileo conflagration and if you accept that the religion of a culture is its underlying philosophy than this is how you undermine the culture. We didn’t get to where we are overnight. It literally took hundreds of years
I agree, but it is convenient short hand to make a point. Sacrificing a bit of historical accuracy in order to advance in a larger argument is a sin I happily commit.
Understood. Much like the enlightenment is less about being enlightened and more a master stroke of branding
I don’t agree with the latest take on the ‘Dark Ages”. They were in fact a Dark time: Loss of literacy, trade, technology, and comfort,
Quick examples….
Literacy – Literacy levels in 1st century Rome weren’t met again in Western Europe until the 20th century. This is a major reason why record of events after the 5th century are so spotty compared to the previous centuries.
Trade / technology / comfort: With the Roman Peace gone, trade routes collapsed. Entire technologies were loss in part as a result. i.e. The finest stoneware / ceramic manufacturing came from Roman Britain. Wares were shipped throughout the empire. When trade collapsed, the industry collapsed, and the skills to make such fine wares disappeared. Noblemen in 11th Century England were eating off of plates of such low quality a Roman peasant would have rejected them. Tile roofs were replaced by thatch. The ability to make amphorae (jars used to transport critical goods like olive oil) was lost for much of the former empire.
The best book I found on the subject was by author Ward Perkins. It is a dry, scholarly work, but jammed packed with evidence and references.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0192807285/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It was a pretty bleak time. Much like the Bronze Age collapse in the Mediterranean in the 12th century BC. There was a collapse of infrastructure, widespread famine death loss of literacy and technological know-how but it was also the beginning of the Iron Age and spawned the axial age in the Mediterranean 700 years later. I think the Middle Ages were an incubator for what came after but it is presented to people who learn nothing else as a time when Christianity shut down all learning and that’s why it’s called the Dark Ages. This is false
For may peoples life expectancy went up. It turns out living within one’s carrying capacity is good for people.
@AB Prosper
Oh look an entryist. With academic eco-marxist phrases to boot (“carrying capacity”).
Is SpaceX committing “ecocide” by building rapidly reusable VTVL boosters?
Perhaps you’re even a paid FBI informant. So how hard was the 35 day government partial shutdown for you non-essential employees?
From what I’ve read, the term “dark ages” was simply a reference to the lack of written records for later historians to evaluate.
Plenty of notes from the Greeks and Romans, and quite a bit post-Charlemagne, but from A.D. 500 to 800 it’s pretty damn dark.
Historians now call the period from the 6th to the 10th centuries the “Early Middle Ages” and the 10th to 13th centuries the “High Middle Ages”.
Those Early Middle Ages were fairly dark. Most of the Mediterranean and half of early Christianity was lost to Muslim invasion and piracy while the northern pagans attacked from the north. Mongol hordes spent most of that period raiding from the northeast and threaten massive invasion several times.
What became western civilization was hanging on by a thread.
They were also literally “dark” due to a series of catastrophic volcanic eruptions in 536AD which some theories credit with accelerating the world into an abyss.
I agree. That 500 year period between the fall of Rome and the rise of the Holy Roman Empire is actually referred to as the Early Middle Ages. We also got deeper plowing techniques, distilled spirits, and cheese making.
You say this with such dead pan delivery it is comical. All that in 500 years?! Cheese, plowing, and liquor? It reminds me of when negroes hold up their ‘inventors’ and all we seem to come up with is peanut butter and the super soaker squirt gun.
tl;dr- Had the world not cratered w/ the fall of Rome we’d have had a LOT more during that time period, which would have propelled us even further today. But Rome fell for the die-versity trick. The original multi-kulti suicide pact, and ours will look similar.
No. If Rome had not fallen the unique sprint of Western Civ 800 years later would be impossible. Over seven centuries the Romans invented two vital things, property law, and concrete. Nothing else rose above the reservoir holding Roman civilization. Their numeral system remained primitive, their arrows were not rifled–a technology the Ice Man carried in his quiver three thousand years before. Everything was ordered, and static. It was the best possible world for it’s time.
Oh, and I forgot the other thing that emerged in the “Dark Ages”…the end of chattel slavery.
Cheese is the Apex. I think we should call the cheese ages.
I think you’re taking a 21st century view of what was, at the time, highly advanced technology. Deeper plowing techniques massively increased crop yields, for example. Cheese – the production of it – involves similar processes to the creation of modern day antibiotics. The brewing of distilled spirits, especially beer, in the middle ages protected people from all sorts of water born bacteria. Both cheese and beer production played important early roles in the development of the field of chemistry.
If the Mayflower doesn’t run low on beer, they wind up in VA, and Zman gets to complain how those damn, dirty southern Puritans have been wrecking society for 3 hundred years.
Anyway, it’s easy to turn your nose up at technology advances from 1500 years ago…
Collapse of the (western Roman) world economy; mass-death; retrogression in material prosperity; loss of literacy, technology, and scientific understanding…these all make for a pretty “Dark” age indeed.
A good counter to the cultural flim-flammer is a look at the physical evidence as in the book, “the fall of rome: and the end of civilization.”
https://www.amazon.com/Fall-Rome-End-Civilization/dp/0192807285/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1548863177&sr=1-1&keywords=the+fall+of+rome%3A+and+the+end+of+civilization
Dark Ages is a perfectly good term.
Yes, in scientific respects the world progressed, but only because the Romans gave fuck all about science and relied on astonishingly primitive technologies. In some areas, the Romans had actually regressed from the Greeks.
But the overall civilizational level declined; trade, literacy, numeracy, life expectancy, communication, sea travel, all plummeted. The cathedral of Chartres may rival Roman architecture, but it was surrounded by mud hovels housing an illiterate, peasant populace, living under un-enlightened dictatorship.
Apart from the occasional secular ruler, it was the Church that kept the lights burning in the early Middle Ages.
I believe the new term will in Europe will be “The BLACKED Ages.” Trademark pending.
Europe, like the rest of the West , has a demographic problem in that they are all far below replacement levels in population growth. “The future belongs to those who show up”.
Europe is overpopulated as it is. The problem – at the moment – is not a shrinking European population, but a growing Mohammadan one.
We are conquerors, run out of space on this planet to conquer, unless perhaps Antarctica. To revive our spirit, we may need to go to other planets.
To revive our spirit, we may need to go to other planets.
We need to take this one back.
It will be much harder for (((Globalists))) to destroy a multi planetary technological civilization.
Human’s have lived centuries on the same land farming and building cultures and traditions without conquering anybody
Now there are always hungry assholes out there but they are not easily going to harness the declining resources of planet Earth so they can lord over slaves in the vacuum of Mars
baring some incredible breakthroughs mankind is not going into space and its far more likely our complex unsustainable technology will just fall apart bit by bit.
2219 isn’t going to be Star Trek its more likely to be Amish Paradise
It is long past the time when population growth is necessary for economic/technological/quality of life growth.
White men have solved the production problem.
The reason we hear so much about the population crises is because all of the government ponzi schemes are predicated on taxing an ever increasing population of current workers to pay previous generations ( just to tie things together with yesterday’s post , if taxation was exacted primarily on capital and not labor, a decreasing population would be seen (or at least sold) as an unalloyed good.
The idea that the US and Europe can be turned into comfortable retirement homes staffed and paid for by pleasant and obeisant, productive and well-assimilated pig ignorant violent fleeing peasants is astonishing, yet that’s what we are asked to believe.
Japan is approaching an aging population in a sane and responsible way- personal services to be provided by robots not servants,
@AB Prosper
What do you mean by “breakthrough”? No specifics, eh?
Anyone who opposes space travel to the planets is an entryist.
When the Romans failed to show up the barbarians won the battle but not the future. The future may belong to no one. Several hundred million Muslims and Africans in Europe are destined only to be starving in the cold.
Oh, please. Stop looking to babies to save you from population replacement.
Getting rid of women’s rights would solve most of our problems…
-SJWs
-population replacement
-treacherous rulers
-NIMBY
-below replacement birth rates
-shitty converged entertainment
-huge deficits
-consumerism
Among a whole bunch of other stuff.
The demographic problem in the West is caused by women’s rights.
I’m not worried about Israeli nukes. If Israel collapses it will be from external, not internal pressure, and those nukes will probably already be expended on targets.
France and the UK are scarier. Both will be Islamic Republics well before the end of this century unless they decide to throw all the Muslims out. Either way, there will be chaos and nukes up for grabs.
If the U.S. comes apart in a civil war, then yes, there will be unsecured nukes all over the place. Most of the tactical ones probably in team blue areas, most strategic nukes in team red territory.
A massive economic downturn, or even prolonged stagnation, would do the trick of convincing a significant number of predominantly urbanized migrant populations to return to the old country. While a Le Pen victory appears unlikely in 2022, should it happen millions would leave with the benefit of their second passport.
If Le Pen wins they will be safer in France than they would with the continued encroachment of Islamic domination.
I honestly don’t think ANYTHING is ever going to entice them to go away voluntarily — not an economic downturn, not bribes, nothing.
Ain’t no white wimminz back in the Old Country.
Besides, (((Our Bestest Friends Forever))) will certainly figure out a way to convince them to stay. What would be the point of ruining Europe if it doesn’t stay (((ruined)))?
An economic downturn would only affect them if France stopped the welfare payments. Then they would riot.
Riots are an every Saturday thing in France the French military will put down a non French threat where they won’t do much against the Yellow Vests.
True, but what is going to happen is far more than a mere downturn. The euro is going to disappear. And so is the EU. That is baked into the cake. It’s no longer avoidable. When they find themselves with no currency, there won’t be any benefits for the colonists. They will have to leave. Or be made to leave. And they will be.
So at the present time, it looks like Trump has long odds against a second term. The question becomes what the left does if it seizes power in 2020 on the belief that it will never be voted out, unless by a DSA splinter party. The temptation would be high for a UK/OZ style gun ban, but which would either be ignored or outright resisted by large swathes of territory. We already know that Congressman Swallwell wants us nuked, and Ocasio Cortez wants us gang raped.
Not sure those odds are so long. If the dems really want a double-first with the U.S.’s first female/first black president (piss-yellow demi-Negro Barack doesn’t count), and Frankenstein’s monster manages to actually overpower the good Dr., then a lot of powerful dems with deep pockets may hold their noses and privately support Trump. They hate him but if the choice is between someone calling for BDS and someone who makes Jerusalem the capital of Israel, what do you think they’ll really do? A lot of normies who thought they were democrats are going to discover during this cycle that they are not democrats, they are white people. Or maybe it’s time for a Muslim president. You’re pussy can’t be grabbed if there’s a clit-cutter in chief.
If you’re referring to Kamala Harris as your double-first candidate, then you’d should know that she’s even more shabbos than Trump.
Wants us gang raped? I think that’s a wee bit overstated – with her “Run Train” tweet, Sandy was just trying to come across as street-wise to the peasantry. Not so easy for a Westchester pseudo-Ivy-Leaguer.
Our people are not extended the same nuances. That statement is a career-ender and should always be treated as such.
Curtis Lemay:
” you’ve got to kill people, and when you’ve killed enough they stop fighting.”
If the fight is between team red in the countryside and team blue in the cities – well then team blue is at a distinct disadvantage because the use of nuclear weapons makes much more sense to use against a city – than it does in blowing up the countryside.
A decent sized nuke blown up in a city kills how many people – maybe a million or more? Blow up that same nuke in the countryside or even the suburbs and what are you going to get – maybe 100k dead?
If the lefties start nuking right wingers as that CA Senator suggested – they had better be careful as their power base (cities) – are much more susceptible – and enticing… as targets for nukes, than are Nazis hiding in the mountains.
The cities also NEED the countryside to survive – the same is not true in reverse.
In the same way that island nations (Japan and Great Britain) that go to war against opponents with large and competent submarine forces (US and Germany) – can find out that they’re not in a strategically advantageous position.
It will be far easier for the right wingers occupying the countryside to make Curtis Lemay’s observation into reality – than it will be in the reverse.
In past wars like WW2 – bombing the cities killed a lot of people, but it also drove a lot of people out of the cities.
Nukes take care of that problem since they pretty much kill everybody.
That CA Senator ought to think his shit out a little bit better.
The city vs country folk dichotomy didn’t work out so well for the white’s in Russia’s civil war.
The White loss in the Russian Civil War had more to do with shitty divided leadership and foreign intrigue (thanks, Woodrow Wilson and David Lloyd George!) than it did urban vs rural, but your point is well taken. Holding the countryside is better than holding the cities alone (just ask Mao), but it doesn’t mean automatic victory.
Russia in 1917 was very much as West today. All institutions were rotten to the core and lost any kind of legitimacy. Lenin conquered Moscow with only 1000 men. At this time, in Moscow were more than 30 000 WWI experienced officers and ca 100 000 soldiers but they did nothing because lack of leadership. Every known person and institution had ruined his reputation so there were not a single leader available. So society just collapsed.
The Whites didn’t have the ability to nuke the cities.
I’ve read some articles over the years that postulate that leftism vs conservatism might be due to some innate differences within the people who adhere to each of those different viewpoints of the world.
If that’s true – well then what’s been going on for quite some time now has been a separating of those inherently different people.
Also – if that’s true, well then nuking a few cities full of leftists might well change the population dynamic for quite some time afterwards.
Just sayin…………
And remember – it was a CA leftist Senator who brought up the whole idea of nuking “fellow Americans”.
You don’t need atomic weapons to “nuke” a vibrant city. Just cut off inputs, and stop traffic/repairs. If EMP nukes work as we have been told, that could be purely external attack, but it seems like almost the same ends could be achieved with small-team attacks on critical inputs to cities and the crews that repair them. Pick a time with extra-cold weather. Best applied to many cities at once to overwhelm responders, so a big and widespread conspiracy is needed. The plan could be thwarted by regular people with binoculars and radios, if you could convince people to look up from their phones. BTW, this will be judged as a “war crime” if the city-killers lose. Betcha there is already some collapse/apocalypse fiction like this.
Josh;
The keys to the victory of the Red Army were, IMHO:
+ instantly seizing control of the transportation net through the railroad workers’ unions.
+ Plenty of war materials lying around.
+ Plenty of disaffected veterans who had every reason to despise their elite.
+ Plenty of non-elite, experienced unit commanders which the war had forced the Russian elite to create. Heretofore, officers were from ‘reliable elements of society’, i.e. the lesser elite.
+ An elite who had thoroughly discredited themselves via their entrance into and conduct of WWI.
+ utter ruthlessness (red terror) employed by an previously organized cadre.
+ An appealing utopian vision that they could sell to the disaffected and confused.
+ German subsidy (at first).
Control of the railroads allowed Trotsky to employ a ‘Strategy of Central Position’ agains the disunited White forces on the peripheries. He was able to form units out of the disaffected veterans and leaders. He was able to arm them with the weapons left on the field when the units on the Eastern Front “voted with their feet”, to quote Lenin.
The Allies intervened in the worst way possible: Enough to allow the Reds to cast themselves as ‘defenders of the motherland’, not enough to force the Whites to get their Schiff together and not actually giving the Whites enough resources to prevail, even after they had won WWI and had plenty laying around available.
Some potential parallels, some not. One could look for Russian mischief in a Civil War II scenario, though.
True enough, but this is not 1917, and this is not Russia.
Or the Vendee during the revolutionary France
No earthly idea how it will shake out, but there’s a lot more red sympathizers embedded in cities than blue state sympathizers embedded in the country. Big chunks of Queens, Staten Island, and the Bronx aren’t exactly as blue state as is commonly supposed.
Agreed.
That’s a point I have brought up again and again with people online who I hear saying “we should just nuke the cities and get rid of all the leftists”. Or : ” everybody in the blue states is against us”.
That’s not really the way it shakes out in my experience. I live in MA – and I am surrounded by red sympathizers. For some reason at my last job (which admittedly was in NH) – I surrounded by right wingers. In my personal circle – I can’t think of more than a few people that are hard core blue, and even they aren’t SJW lunatics.
At my new job – I wasn’t here a week before I overheard two guys in the cube next to me talking about guns. They’re not hard core types who are burying ARs in the ground – but they’re fully aware of the shennanigans our state DA has engaged with her unlawful restrictions on ownership of ARs. That means there’s a crack there just waiting for a wedge to be driven in.
This is why I constantly go back to making the argument that power should just be removed from the government. Government power is what the blues strive for. The founders thought that the Federal government should be SEVERELY restricted. Leftists have fought for over 100 years to aggregate power up to the top – and now leftists take advantage of that to rule over us. Our red politicians have done nothing to stop any of it.
Remove that political power – and red wins by default. Turn off the electrical power – and red wins. Remove all the fake money – and red wins.
I think the problem with the blues winning is that they have built a house of cards – that the reds are unwilling to just put a torch to.
Sowell’s statement was stupid but it was rhetorical not literal. No one would follow an order to nuke anywhere in the US for any reason and he knows it..
It was meant to evoke the overwhelming power of the State against rebels which is wrong but for a whole bunch of different reasons.
However unless the White Right stops being so individualistic and learns to fight for a common goal, they will lose if they can even start That goal can be “get rid of the Union” or “Authoritarian Right State” or any other damned thing but there must be commonality and cooperation in scale
Things are shifting that way but old habits die hard
One wonders how likely lefties would be to detonate nukes on the continent where they themselves live. Assuming that they could get the codes for giving the commands to launch. And assuming that the VERY FEW men in uniform who are able to deliver said nukes would obey such orders anyway. Whole thins is most unlikely.
You are astonishingly trusting of the armed filth.
Nuclear weapons folks are Special. Much screening, most of it psychological. Father-In-Law was a Titan II launch crew. Smart fellow saw his draft number and went directly to USAF recruiter who recognized nerd-potential and reliability of a young man married with baby on the way. He believed (at the time, and when he told me in about 1988) that he and one other NCO could (for-sure) launch without orders, and (maybe) re-target without orders and launch. Crew have a lot of time on their hands to fully-understand the system, and they are (necessarily!) smart, trained to repair/maintain the System, and very-bored. This may no longer be the case, but I believe that it was at least until the mid-1970’s.
LeMay has been portrayed as a cartoon character but he was in fact a very insightful strategic thinker. In the way back times, had to abstract a substantial portion of the last long interview conducted with him by my thesis adviser. We have no one of that stature in the military today.
No need for nukes on a typical American city. Just cut off the water supply by whatever means possible. Like Rome before them a lack of water will empty these hives out.
Drake wrote:
“I’m not worried about Israeli nukes. If Israel collapses it will be from external, not internal pressure, and those nukes will probably already be expended on targets.”
You _should_ be worried, as those “targets” include european capitols.
Martin van Creveld, Israeli Jew born in the Netherlands, is no war drum-banging psycho, but likely the greatest living military historian.
“We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. _Most European capitals are targets for our air force_. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: ‘Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.’ I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. _We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under._”
—-Martin van Creveld
I won’t comment on Israel’s nuke capability because I’m not qualified, but as to the IDF being “second or third” militarily that’s simply not the case. As has been said before, quantity has a quality all its own, and Israel is too small. Also, they look better than they probably are, because kicking Arab ass in conventional warfare is not a high bar.
Some rather more informed commentary than mine courtesy of the late WeaponsMan. Comments are definitely worth reading on any WM thread, BTW.
http://weaponsman.com/?p=28617
Hey Mike….good link…it brought back a lot of memories. I hope you’re doing well.
Cheers from Oz
LSWCHP
Israel’s army has been bested by teenage militias in both Lebanon and the Palestinian territory…It’s very weak and loaded with men who don’t want to fight…Israel is 100% reliant on its air force and nukes, and now the air force is being shut out by the Russian advanced SA systems.
Drake;
I can assure you that the US nukes are nowhere near team blue land. During the Cold War, both sides widely dispersed their nukes to preclude a successful first strike wiping out the other’s ability to retaliate. Because of inertia and because some threat remains (or must seem to remain to keep the budgets up), US nukes are very likely still widely dispersed in the Red Zone.
The cities’ Cold War role was to be hostages to the other side. Not liking this and to get at the land for their developer wing, the Cloud Team moved any operational bases near any of their cities to Flyover in the last round of base closures.
Which brings up the interesting point that were the Clinton’s patrons in China decide to grab for the big prize of global Han domination in a US Civil War II scenario, their temptation would be to neutralize our aging strategic deterrent. This would largely clear out the Red Zone, which would, in turn, starve out the Blue Zone. Horrible to contemplate.
You forget the Naval bases.
Drake;
True to an extent. I’d say the Seattle area is the most vulnerable to blue seizure if lots of deep blue pop. nearby is the criterion. But that’s the only one I can come up with off the top of my head. San Diego is more vulnerable to Mexican seizure, just by proximity (but not by organizational ability). Charleston SC, the Newport News VA area, Jacksonville FL are near red enclaves if not in them. Don’t know about the NE.
But the entire premise of the discussion seems to be that some blue politicos could just walk in and take some nukes from some sympathetic blue locals in uniform. Or assume command of same. Or create scratch forces from local blue-infiltrated units. Were the balloon to go up, anything is possible, but this seems unlikely for a number of reasons. A rerun of the Civil War I’s Confederate seizure of local armories and forts is not in the cards for nukes due their specific defenders and those defenders’ standing orders to prevent unauthorized transfer at any cost, even it that involved blowing them up with conventional explosives.
And then there’s the small problem of making them go off without the having the codes.
Is seizing a naval base by coup de main easier or harder than seizing an airbase by overrunning it with sympathetic ground forces_? Don’t know. But any such attack would signal the National Command Authority that, IT’S ON.
Israelis already have a protocol for your scenario: The Samson Option they are quite clear that they will tear down the temple completely taking everyone around them with them should that ever reach such a stage.
One thing mitigating this is the fact that the tritium triggers required to make US nukes work are decaying. In a few decades most of them won’t work and the US has no way to make or get more
https://www.defensenews.com/opinion/commentary/2017/03/06/commentary-the-looming-crisis-for-us-tritium-production/
from the article
By the early 2030s, the viability of the entire U.S. nuclear deterrent is at risk from an inability to produce tritium for nuclear warheads.
we’ll probably scavenge enough to keep China from unilaterally putting us out our misery but beyond that, we won’t be in good shape nuke wise
Our regular military is not as well stocked as it needs to be and
its not fit for large scale warfare, nor will it be,
Given the broad consensus is if there is a revolution it will happen around the 2030’s suggests it may be a non issue.
As for France and the UK, neither will end up an Islamic Republic. They may have Sharia like elements but those elements aren’t that different than our old legal code.
Both are also far far Whiter than the US is.
France is already in warm civil war mode anyway and its a White/Populist revolt.
Britain will never be an Islamic republic, the process of recapturing our country from the traitors in London is 3 years old now and still very much an ongoing process but make no mistake despite the media etcs best attempts things are happening. Its not just Brexit even though that has caused major tears in the old way of doing things its the constant threat of viable third parties led by the likes of Farage that show things will never be the same again for the business as usual crowd.
Britain will never be an Islamic republic, the process of recapturing our country from the traitors in London is 3 years old now and still very much an ongoing process but make no mistake despite the media etcs best attempts things are happening.
I’d love to believe you. But I’ve been reading comments like this from the Dead Island for 15 years. We’re always told people have had it, the worm is turning, the Anglo-Saxon is learning to hate. Nothing changes except the grip of Islam and cultural Marxism over the U.K. grows stronger.
The Anglo-Saxon is learning to gripe. Don’t tell me I’m wrong. Show me.
Actually, team Red enjoys a massive strategic and tactical nuke advantage. This is mainly due to the need for safe handling and storage away from populated areas. To the extent team Blue thinks they might have some, they’re most likely talking about sea-based (sub and carrier) assets…which are neither team per se.
Based on most polling, Team Red generally holds a 2:1 or 3:1 advantage in military uniforms as well.
If Team Blue had the advantage they wouldn’t be working so hard to undermine the electoral college.
But the nukes cannot be deployed without the constantly changing codes. So somebody will control the territory where nukes are located, but they won’t be able to deploy them.
Also, the effects of the current Grand Solar Minimum combined with the collapse of the euro and of the EU will go a long way towards saving Europe from Islamization because a choice will be made (there won’t be a choice about whether to make this choice): Either the welfare payments to the foreign colonists stop, or there will be widespread starvation and death from exposure, as the colonists are evicted from their digs.
ZMan is right that Europe is in FAR better shape demographically than the States.
On a technical level, that is actually a surprisingly easy thing to remedy. Most of the systems controlling those nuclear weapons are the latest in 1980’s and 1990’s technology.
That’s why when the USSR collapsed, there was a massive rush to get in there and secure the weapons. Their safeguards aren’t much different than ours, so the rush was on to make sure no local actors could get in there, change the codes, and independently launch the rockets.
>>>Most of the tactical [nukes are] probably in team blue areas, most strategic nukes in team red territory.
Roughly one-third of the USA’s nuclear weapons are stored in or operated out of the Puget Sound area. Be very afraid.
In virtually untrackable underwater fortresses. If there was even a chance that the USA looked shaky, those submarines would be put to see and they would disappear for many, many months, resurfacing only in locations deemed safe.
We Americans had no idea the Israeli Jews would militarily attack the U.S.S. Liberty, even after all we did for them, yet they did, with many American deaths. Why should we think we’d have a clue what they’d do to us next? Why do you like these people? They make it clear they have allegiance only to their own.
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2017/september/07/the-uss-liberty-wins-one/
Stupid gullible goyim. We have to stop giving it all away.