First Lies

One of the defining features of the managerial class is how it uses rhetoric to shape the debate in order to eliminate the need for debate. They are not in the habit of debating their ideas and fads, mostly because they don’t want to debate those things. It is a soft-authoritarianism where they seek to shame and cajole their opposition out of the public square, so they don’t have to debate them. A good example of this is a piece on the debate between young activists and the racketeers.

The author of the piece is an editor of First Things, a publication that used to bill itself as a conservative religious journal aimed at “advancing a religiously informed public philosophy for the ordering of society.” As in the case of Buckley conservatism, establishment Christian organization set as their goal to fit themselves into the Progressive moral order. As a result, First Things is a thoroughly house-trained operation that offers no threat to the prevailing moral order.

Putting that aside, it is a great example of how the establishment, broadly defined here to include all the subgroups on the other side of the great divide, first seeks to shape the debate so as to exclude those seeking to debate them. In this case, the writer has no interest in addressing the actual core of the fight between the groypers and the racketeers of Conservative Inc. Instead, he claims the debate is between white nationalists and classical liberals over the issue of free speech.

There is a word for what he is doing here. It’s called lying. For starters, there is no definition of “white nationalist” that includes Nick Fuentes that would not also include the founders of Buckley conservatism or the Founders of the United States. If that is what the author intends, then he is the extreme radical here, claiming that the very founding of the nation is immoral. After all, the term “white nationalist” is currently defined to mean immoral, as in a heretic or blasphemer.

Calling Charlie Kirk and the other racketeers of Conservative Inc. “classical liberals” is a revealing bit of rhetoric. Within living memory, Buckley conservatives would have avoided such a description. Religious conservatives certainly would not have used the term positively. Up until the last generation or so, no right-winger would claim that society is no more than the sum of its individual members. After all, the Buckleyites called themselves Burkeans, not Hobbesians.

Once he redefines the sides in the dispute, he then gratuitously characterizes the nature of the dispute. On the one hand, he claims the sides disagree on Israel and homosexuality. On the other hand, he claims both sides agree on the value of free speech and debate. At best, this is a superficial analysis that suggests the author is unfamiliar with both sides of this battle. At worst it is an effort to frame the issue in such a way as to make it easy to defend Conservative Inc.

The claim is that Nick Fuentes is the bad guy, a white nationalist, who is not a real Christian, while Kirk is just a secular libertarian. The reason the “white nationalists” are attacking the classical liberal is Kirk foolishly embraced free speech. The writer spends the rest of his post on a rant about the dangers of white nationalism, a rant that is part of the stock rhetoric of the Left. In other words, in typical Progressive style, it’s all about the good guys and bad guys, the white hats and black hats.

Of course, you never debate the bad guys. To do so, as the Left always reminds us, is to legitimize them. Giving white nationalists a platform could lead people to think that their claims have legitimacy. In order to avoid that, the bad guys must be destroyed, which in this case means anathematized as social pariahs. Mr. Schmitz is doing exactly what dissidents have been accusing Conservative Inc. of doing for generations now, acting as a gate-keeper for the establishment.

To be more accurate, they are not just gate-keepers in a passive sense. That’s another lie they like to promote, as if they are just defending the status quo. In reality, so-called conservatives like Mr. Schmitz are skirmishers, running ahead of the main battle line in the culture war. In this case, the job is to anathematize the critics, so they can be more easily dismissed by the main army of the Left. The whole setup of the post is as a vehicle for pointing and shrieking at the dissidents.

It is rather ironic that the groyper’s actual complaint, the real dispute between them and the racketeers, is exactly what Schmitz is doing in this post. It is not a dispute over speech or individual liberty. Those things play an ancillary role, but they are not the primary issues. The issue is that allegedly conservative outfits like First Things have conserved nothing but their position within the Progressive establishment. They spend all of their time defending their alleged adversaries.

That is why Conservative Inc. has embraced left-wing rhetoric to defend itself against the dissidents. They have no choice. They cannot defend their behavior morally and they cannot defend their record. Like common street walkers, conservatives have been willing to jump into whatever car pulls up to the curb. In order to avoid admitting this, they have to shift the focus from themselves onto some bad guy. After many long years getting into lefty’s car, they have taken on his habits.


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Jack Boniface
Member

It goes back 30 years. In 1989, Richard John Neuhaus, in the pay of the Neocons, tried to take over Chronicles. When he failed, he used Neocon cash to found First Things. Dutifully, in 2003 they defended the Neocons’ Iraq War, supposedly on “Catholic” just war premises, with Michael Novak and others even lecturing John Paul II on his opposition to the war.
https://www.nytimes.com/1989/05/16/us/magazine-dispute-reflects-rift-on-us-right.html

AltitudeZero
Guest
AltitudeZero

Once the Right sold out on freedom of association and disparate impact, they really had no leg to stand on, domestically, and this is just as true of the Christian Right as it is the more secular right. The “Civil Rights Revolution” as implemented destroyed what was left of the American constitutional order, regardless of what benefits it may (or may not) have conferred on black people, and until that is admitted, the Right will remain hopelessly bogged down. It would of course be possible to say that the goals of the Civil Rights movement were noble, but were implemented… Read more »

Member

The “civil rights revolution” was nothing more than a series of wedge issues which made the leftist takeover of educational, corporate, and government institutions possible. We gave them a loaded weapon and they pulled the trigger.

Hoyos
Guest
Hoyos

By this sites standards I’m definitely a “normie” but freedom of association is the most abused right in the constitution. On one level the civil rights movement had a legitimate beef, if we’re paying taxes and serving in the wars, and legally considered citizens then we have a right to expect what every other citizen expects. That quickly morphed into just insane bullshit including the “soft quotas” of today (quotas are technically illegal but woe betide anyone who draws the wrath of the EEOC) and the functional prohibition of any right of association of which the left does not approve.… Read more »

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

Hoyos: But the point was and is that the vast majority of Negroes were NOT paying taxes (they’ve always been recipients of various types of transfer payments furnished from Whites via the threat of violence – from them personally, or from the government on their behalf). They served in wars in a only a support capacity and even there they caused constant problems (read about the troubles they caused in Australia, their rapes then and continuing until today wherever they serve, particularly Japan, etc.). If citizenship is a mutual contract between citizens and government as well as amongst citizens themselves,… Read more »

Hoyos
Guest
Hoyos

I take your point but what about the ones that are doing right? Especially at the time, when the black community was really solving a lot of its own problems or trying to (the old HBCs like Howard, Tuskegee, etc.) and there were real contributions made during the wars including combat. The answer can’t be “fuck you you’re black”. But hey I warned you I was a comparative normie.

AltitudeZero
Guest
AltitudeZero

Paying taxes and serving in wars most certainly gives you the rights of a citizen, which was the actual legit point that the Civil Rights people had; but that does not give you the right to associate with others against their will, which was a big part of what the CRR as implemented was all about. I agree that freedom of association can certainly be abused, but so can any freedom. Contrary to what Leftists think, that is not an excuse to take it away. If the only freedoms we have are those that cannot be abused, we’re not going… Read more »

Homer Hinkley
Member

“Paying taxes and serving in wars most certainly gives you the rights of a citizen.” Would you agree then that all illegal aliens in the US should be considered citizens after they sneak into the US and pay some taxes? Would you also agree that tax paying illegal aliens should have voting rights once they are considered citizens by virtue of paying taxes? Sounds like a great way to take over a country. Send in 22 million illegal aliens https://thehill.com/latino/407848-yale-mit-study-22-million-not-11-million-undocumented-immigrants-in-us have them pay some taxes, and then claim that they have citizenship rights and that they get to vote. In… Read more »

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

So-called conservatives are the loudest complainers when you start discussing removing tax streams from the grasp of the government. OH MY GOD – who will support the schools!!?, We won’t have any roads!!. We’ll be invaded by ISIS because we’ll have no army!!!. I’ve run into this again and again and again and again. Lefties will complain you want to kill poor people or that you’re racist. Either way – it’s plainly obvious that they’re kindred spirits. It’s like arguing with an addict about why you don’t want to give them $10.00. “You’re going to blow it on a lottery… Read more »

Hoyos
Guest
Hoyos

Major qualitative difference, if you break into my house but pay for some groceries I’m still kicking your ass out. If I kidnap and force you to live on my property then we’re in a you break you it you bought it scenario.

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

Being a taxpayer to the Federal government and serving dutifully in it’s wars – whether they benefit the country or not – is NOT what this country was founded to be about. Many of the founders thought that the Federal government should be denied a standing army. If the nation was threatened – well then all able bodied men were supposed to be serving in the militia anyway – so a defense force could be brought up almost instantly (as the Swiss demonstrated during WW2). The federal government was originally denied the right to reap taxes from personal income –… Read more »

Hoyos
Guest
Hoyos

I think you misunderstood I mean the right itself was abused, that it’s the one right in the Constitution everyone ignores. As assaulted as the second amendment is, even the most restrictive jurisdictions allow some private gun ownership. The right to free association is blown through like it doesn’t exist.

Takashi Sheffield
Guest
Takashi Sheffield

Quotas being “technically illegal” is one of the things that makes anti-discrimination laws subjective, and thus impossible for business owners to ever know with confidence whether they are in compliance, which is just how the left wants it.

A B
Guest
A B

I’ve gotten into arguments with people over their claim that “affirmative action” is not a quota. I ask one question: “How does the complainant make its case, and what does the legal remedy always include?”. The answer to both is a nose count – i.e. a quota.

Hoagie
Guest
Hoagie

My favorite bullshit phrase is “desperate impact”. It literally means “we make the rules to suit us”.

A B
Guest
A B

That would be “disparate impact”. The definition being: A policy that can be shown to have different (presumed worse) effects on the presumed minority, is presumed discriminatory and must be changed.

It’s not an arbitrary standard, but yes the actual cause-and-effect is frequently, um, misstated.

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

AltitudeZero: Very well said. And “drinking out of a separate water fountain was not exactly The Killing Fields” is a classic. But to admit there can or ought to be separate anything is to admit the lies at the base of egalitarianism. When I was young and stupid, I used to like the JFK quote comparing Jefferson to Nobel prize winners (“I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered together at the White House, with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone”). Now, given the destruction Jefferson’s rhetoric… Read more »

Hoagie
Guest
Hoagie

I don’t despise them because they didn’t realize how the contemporary left would abuse those ideas. By “created equal” Jefferson was referring to “In the eyes of God”, and that “wall of separation” is not a law, it is his opinion.

You do realize that if JFK were alive today he’d be a Democrat pariah or an independent. Hell, today’s Democrats would throw him out and call him a radical hater, “white supremacist on the wrong side of history”.

Member

He’d be Jeffrey Epstein.

Member

Kirk and his ilk (and Trump Jr. and Gavin Newsom’s ex-wife) deserve to challenged and rebuked, but Fuentes isn’t the one to do it. I never heard of the guy before the latest kerfuffle, and even now I’ve only heard his act in an excerpt played on a Radio Derb podcast, but that was enough. The stupidity of the assumptions in his “batches of cookies” formula (designed to debunk the 6M Holocaust number) was only surpassed by the stupidity of his evident inability to actually perform the simple multiplication problem he had set up. Do you really want someone who… Read more »

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

Zman, please insist this guy return to Unz. He really doesn’t belong here.

Member

LOL!

Poor snowflake. Does “was a nitwit in high school and hasn’t progressed” hit too close to home?

Rogeru
Guest
Rogeru

I read Schmidt’s article. He’s not even aware of how little effort he’s put into understanding the situation and I doubt he cares. To me it reads, “I don’t know anything and I don’t want to know anything, just give me my comfortable life and tell me I’m a good person “.

Member

Also known as “the Winston Churchill Admiration Cult and Comfort Zone.”

John Smith
Member

I am just gonna throw this out there. Caveats and weasel words: I dunno who this guy is, or who pulls his strings… but he sounds familiar. He is of The Hive. The cadence of their words and reasoning and posturing is that of a true believer. My family was exactly like him. You can’t talk to men like that. They aren’t necessarily evil, they’re just clueless. They accept different sources of info than we do, they often live insulated from the realities they refuse to acknowledge, and if you try to force them to see the awful world they… Read more »

Member

My position exactly. And very well expressed. I’ve made so many enemies with Normies over the years (decades!), trying to red-pill them simply isn’t worth it. Many are old (like me) and simply want to get into their coffins in peace and quiet while enjoying what’s left of their worthless families. I pity them, really.

John Smith
Member

Yep. I think it’s the NRx guys that talk about ‘holiness spirals’ – and you can see it at work in the hives. I was very hurt and angry when I got run out of the hive but thought at least they could be left alone to go on with their lives, better now that we lived apart. But then they started turning on each other too. They were still fighting amongst themselves last I heard, and there were a few more banishments and ‘un-personings’ after I was exiled. If they don’t trigger a war first, they will bring the… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Epaminondas, you make me weep.
My best beloved, my dearest, oldest friend- *like this* for 55 years- is a committed, though moderate, Dionysian, and quite liberal.
None in his family have made it past 65.

I realised yesterday that I am selfish and cruel. No wonder he shuns the negative, seeking only to savor the delights our wondrous time offers. All this is transitory, we are blessed to be born now, and here.

In penance, I’m sending him your quote re Apollonian vs Dionysian, below. Thank you, thank you for that!

Range Front Fault
Guest
Range Front Fault

Epami……good grief….you’ve been peaking through our window and described my Basic Husband. Love the guy….and I’m good at keeping his prickly fur kindly patted down. …he just wants to be left alone as peacefully as possible to wander off, get in his coffin in peace, and float off to the great hunting grounds in the sky. His own family is so Effed up one has to amour up and limit the time in contact to even be in their general vicinity. Let’s see: Sister in law rightie voting lefty culture, she gets pissed when anything except stupid girl stuff is… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Thanks, Range, that was honest and painful- but I assure you, families were pretty messed up in the 1930s too, I got that straight from the horse’s mouth: from the women who lived in those years.

I’m a chickensh*t and a coward, since I raised or sheltered other men’s children.
Not blessed with any of my own, I can’t honestly imagine today’s frights with half the young ones poisoned into autism, and the older ones traumatized into ruin.

Range Front Fault
Guest
Range Front Fault

Thanks, Alzae, nothing new under the sun. But this is now in history that I’m living, and the new action globalist commies have done a dandy job of destroying and deranging families, and my families are a mess…and it just plain Sucks!
Maybe you dodged a bullet at this time in history by not having offspring.

Member

My “What are you thankful for” last Thursday was about my boy, who’s just trotted off to Idaho Springs for a gap year as a ski bum:
“I am thankful that we failed to fuck-up the son to the full extent available to us.”

Juri
Guest
Juri

“”….separation, or fighting…””” Going around like Germany did with Maginot Line. Those people like French generals, never have a plan B. When they build by their own opinion invincible fortress, those people never bother to think, “what if” . And when enemy is inside the walls, they are completely helpless. Like we see it now. Massive defamation campaign became unusable and nobody has no idea what to do with Trump or Fuentes or Putin or Orban or uprising in general.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Good one, Juri, thank you.

Member

The weasel words. I’m over it. This is a fight to the death and we all know it and in the end I hope to push those white liberals into the path of the bullets and the guns so I can make my escape and lived to fight another day.

Have you seen this this guy? He is not using weasel words

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/watch-parents-boo-as-christian-street-preacher-confronts-drag-queen-at-story-time

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

What a sickening story – of course all the damned wamen at the event supported the tranny and denounced the Christian protesters as “intolerant.” God, I cannot stand women (with the exception of those here at Zman, of course, and a few other exceptions).

Range Front Fault
Guest
Range Front Fault

Damn! Me too 3g….for the most part, I am evolving a distaste for women. Not just the lefty brainless ones, am …sorry…. but bored with most women. Catty, competitive, or just brainless nattering. Women in a group sound like a loud flock of starlings. Why did we evolve such high loud voices that do not command respect. Even the boy cat will say to me, “You go with your bad self, Mom.” When Basic Husband tells him to Stop, Boy Cat says, “Crap…He means it.” Meh! You gals are great and too bad we aren’t geographically closer.

Mark Taylor
Guest
Mark Taylor

“You’re dressed like a whore in front of children. Are you teaching children to be whores?”

I like his style

Member

That was righteous anger, it’s clear and concise not sputtering and confused. That tranny had nothing to say to that because the preacher was right and everyone knows that. Those tranies know what they’re doing. They are corrupting children intentionally. They do not think what they’re doing is wholesome

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

“Oh spare us from the might and wrath of the holy tranny!”

Girls, I admit, we were azzholes, the only place we took you before the 19th was for granted. You are right to seek address of your problems, and you can’t beat us up.

But, judas priest, men, where is our sack?
We let the girls cut it off, they didn’t realize our inner azzhole was there to protect them from far worse azzholery.

I don’t blame them. It’s our job to make sturdy walls that allow them their sweet innocence.

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

Fighting is what you’re going to get. I’d like anybody to point out some historical examples of where separation has EVER worked. The South tried it – and look what happened. Look at the nature of these people. Why would you think they would leave you alone simply because you and all the people who share your mindset have moved to the Dakotas? This is why I keep calling out the whole ” we’ll make the interior of the country a new “red” country so we can just separate from the blue hive” a fools errand and actually pretty moronic.… Read more »

Ayatollah Rockandrollah
Member

I notice that over the last week there has been a concerted effort led by this Twitter user https://twitter.com/LokiJulianus to discredit Fuentes as essentially a Chinese asset due to his father purportedly having business interests in China. “Loki” is an ally of Bronze Age Pervert, and was able to summon his followers to dig further into Fuentes. It has been going on for 4-5 days now, without stop. I have to say that at this point I am about done with the internet, with social media, and all of these people. Nothing is left alone; it is all personal attacks… Read more »

Exile
Member
Exile

It’s why I’ve disengaged from Twitter – the bizarro personality cults, e-personalities e-peening. It’s Insty-thottery for political spergs.

The only “following” I care to have on the Internet is a hundred or so dedicated, serious adults willing to network with others to share real-life strategies for building a better future for our people.

There’s a Third Position outside of debates about obscurantist German mystics and Drudge-level gossip about who’s a Fed or who banged Loomer.

Z sets a good example for staying above that fray without counter-signalling so hard that it draws the trolls & fanbois.

George Orwell
Guest
George Orwell

Twitter is Tiger Beat for political spergs.

Exile
Member
Exile

I’m all in for outright trolling, but it’s all the format is really good for.

I used to tell myself that it forced me to write more concisely but I found I was reducing the underlying thoughts to 280 characters instead.

AltitudeZero
Guest
AltitudeZero

I don’t know squat about Fuentes, but this business of claiming that anyone you don’t like, no matter how obscure, is secretly the “asset” of a malign foreign power is really getting out of hand. Considering that at least three-fourths of the American Establishment is pretty openly working for China, Israel, Mexico, Ukraine, or the Saudis, it’s hilarious that anyone would waste money on a relative nobody like Fuentes. When you can buy “talent” like Hillary or Biden or Kissinger or Schiff, who needs Fuentes?

Rcocean
Guest
Rcocean

You’d think the Center-Right would mock and fight the Leftists calling everyone they dislike a “Putin cockholster” or a “Russian Asset” but no, they join in the game! Its like Zman says in the post, they’re just Conservative Inc. – the left-wing’s handy-helpers.

Demeter Last
Guest
Demeter Last

I don’t know if it helps, but the younger generations participating in the social media scrum are just playing dress-up. If you grew up on BBSs, Usenet, the early message boards of the nascent Internet, you have already exercised your inner troll. These kids are just the latest incarnation of the Eternal September, discovering the fun that can be had sniping at each other. It’s a bit disappointing the number of older people who actually take Twitter and whatnot seriously. A lot of them are just hoary versions of the freshmen discovering the wild west of the Internet for the… Read more »

Marko
Guest
Marko

Yeah, the Kathy Zhu kerfuffle has about killed social media for me as well. If you make a life in that environment, you will be scorned and bullied. Zhu handled it badly, but what kind of person are you if your personal hero is criticized and then you go and pile on a 21-year-old with puerile racial “humor”? Twitter is full of these types. I admit that it’s fun and funny at times, but pornography might be more healthy; at least you’re abusing yourself.

UFO
Guest
UFO

Kathy Zhu
Replying to
@DanCrenshawTX
Absolutely right!
These incels are incredibly ignorant and racist. That’s why the Republican Party gets so much hate, because they stereotype us with the alt right.
I support their right to free speech, but I cannot stand what they believe in.

I do feel bad for her, honestly. She’s just a normiecon. And she “assimilated” as well as one might hope… and now she’s being town down anyways. This is why we need more than one party. One party for the Groypers, one party for the normiecons, and other parties for the left.

Exile
Member
Exile

Splitting the right into two parties, one “alt,” one “normie,” just makes it even more unlikely that the left will ever be stopped via the two party system. Solidarity with both the “extreme” right and sympathetic elements that presently vote Dem would be the only way to go if you want to vote your way out. Is feeling bad for for poor Kathy worth sacrificing your hopes of the system being made to work someday? I personally see the electoral system as a rear-guard action at best, but for those who see hope in the system, it makes no sense… Read more »

Marko
Guest
Marko

I’m in favor of a big-tent party for those who simply believe in four things: against neoliberalism and foreign intervention, and for traditionalism and some degree of identitarianism. WNs, Groypers, AmNats, and open-minded civnats can all agree on this.

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

Ayatollah, It’s a burden, isn’t it? The manly duty to face the world and look at it’s often horrible visage while at the same time trying to see its calm beauty. I struggle to find balance too. I can’t, for the sake of my family, choose to hide from it and yet I know it would be easier… at least for awhile… to retreat into bucolic ignorance. I have to remind myself that there is this tiny sphere of things I can effect encompassed in a giant sphere of knowledge. Focusing on that tiny sphere helps. There are some shining… Read more »

Rogeru
Guest
Rogeru

” Is this a phenomenon of the younger generation, who cannot sit still with an argument/counter-argument for more than a few hours, and must — out of boredom or lack of content — invariably turn to personal attacks, because they have nothing substantive to say?” Rational arguments don’t build armies, leaders do. Debate is only useful among people who share fundamental values and/or care enough to consider them. Attacking a figure like Fuentes is tearing down a potential leader. “Longing for a dilapidated old farmhouse in the middle of nowhere this morning, where I can put in 8 hours of… Read more »

Exile
Member
Exile

Not everyone’s cut out for social media – there’s a place for the Entirely Unplugged in Our Thing. Twitter and other media can be useful to get a message out or to mock those signalling for the other side, but social media is not a dependable source of leadership in and of itself. When you recruit leaders from a celebrity-oriented talent pool, they need serious vetting and testing in a wider arena before you see who’s a real-life leader and who’s just an “e-personality.” Pods, vidya and other more substantial media are one of those tests. In-person skils and organizing… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Hate tweets are how I get the news, but join Twitter? Are you kidding? I waste too much time even posting only here.

For what it’s worth, I talk to live human beings maybe twenty minutes per week, if that.
Hope you can understand, I don’t know how you all do it out there in the real world.

I guarantee I’d go postal, be tomorrow’s headline, or hanging from a lampost if I had to deal with so many people.

Brahma
Member

It’s millenial, the generation is a cancer!

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

Schmitz – a Christian – spends a lot of time in the article worrying about Jews, anti-Semites and any questioning of the Holocaust. This is the CQ in a nutshell. The Christian church establishment believes that whites shouldn’t see themselves as whites (or Germans, English, French, etc.) while allowing (even celebrating) other groups that are tribal.

“Our civilisational inheritance is spiritual, not racial,” Schmitz writes. The church demands that whites disarm in the face of tribal enemies. We need the belief and unity that religion provides, but the church establishment is against us – that’s the CQ to me.

Exile
Member
Exile

Christianity has been reduced to the Jewish Junior Varsity.

The kosher sandwich future:

Prager, Kristol & Shapiro telling “fellow Whites” who we are and Tennessee Coates, Bari Weiss and Saira Rao telling us who we aren’t.

AltitudeZero
Guest
AltitudeZero

“Our civilisational inheritance is spiritual, not racial”

As if the two were mutually exclusive…

George Orwell
Guest
George Orwell

Would any cuck dare say blacks or Asians or any other non-white ethnicity do not have a heritage peculiar to their ancestry?

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

But in the church’s eyes – or, at least, the church establishment’s eyes – they are.

In essence, the church says that God doesn’t see color and, therefore, neither should you. You (or your ancestors) didn’t build this, God did. Etc. The church establishment has become the Left but with God. The Left hates white Christians, yet the church adopts the Left’s beliefs. The betrayal is stunning.

AltitudeZero
Guest
AltitudeZero

“In essence, the church says that God doesn’t see color and, therefore, neither should you. ” But of course, we really have no idea what God sees or doesn’t see, and we have no business putting words into His mouth. God says that all Christians are spiritually the same in the eyes of God, no matter what race or sex, that’s it. This does not mean that there are not differences between men and women, or peoples, and that we can’t take these differences into account in our everyday behavior. The fact that there “Is neither Male nor Female in… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Absolutely, Altitude, embodied race is immaterial Spirit given form.

Creation has struggled for millions of years to bring our kind into this environment, yet we are but a slight step ahead. Life itself is tenuous, difficult, surmounting unimaginable setbacks.

We are what is IN us.

George Orwell
Guest
George Orwell

The only thing more fun than libertarian bashing is deflating gatekeepers like Prager. If anyone on the dissident side knows of an acerbic critique online of this guy, please share it.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

Maybe, but at least Prager and Shapiro are fighting for their people. They are perfectly consistent if you look at it from that angle.

Christian churches that represent white parishioners are betraying their flock in God’s name. How can that be? How can God ask me to make no distinction between my extended family and another man’s extended family? The church is asking whites to commit genetic suicide. It’s impossible that the church was always like that or we or it would be long gone.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Of course they are betraying their flock, that is now their job. They wear the skin of Christianity, but they subvert it. Christianity was always strongest, and the most revered over the ages, when it stood up to all of this kind of thing. Collaboration with the powers-that-be has always eventually been seen as betrayal for the pieces of silver.

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

Praeger and Shapiro may be fighting for their people but they do it in the guise of being Our People. I understand it, they are a people used to the high stakes game and its consequences. It doesn’t mean it is something that should be forgotten or forgiven. There’s a reason captured spies aren’t afforded the civility captured soldiers in uniform are.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

Penitent,

Oh, I agree. I’m just saying I understand them, even if I find them to be cowards. They’re spies, fifth columnists and should be treated as such.

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

Citizen,

I understood you and I understand them. I wasn’t implying anything, simply taking your statement to the next conclusion as I see it. I just want to make sure their names are added to the appropriate list at the end of the “glorious revolution” that Zman often jokes about. 😁

We are good, Sir.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

Penitent,

They deserve what all spies deserve. No exchange deal with Israel for those two.

sheliak
Guest
sheliak

The Christian churches are unquestionably at the epicenter of the process of Latinizing North America and Islamizing Europe. In this sense the churches act like Soros funded NGOs. I don’t hear the churches comment on the resulting political, economic or social evils inflicted on host country populations nor the absence of gratitude displayed by ‘migrants’ for the myriad of benefits they receive. In this sense, I agree that the first world flock is currently being betrayed by Christian institutions.

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

Exile: Brilliant. I must save that (and use it, with your gracious permission).

One of Many Georges
Guest
One of Many Georges

Well, I’m not a Christian, but just as an analytical truism, you could say that, with respect to race, there are two types of Christian:

(1) racial universalists
(2) racialists

The fact of the matter is that we’re going to have to throw everyone in the first group who can’t be converted to the second group out of our lifeboat. Even in their millions.

Racial universalism, whether of the Christian type, or as embodied by the left’s nu-religion of Equalism, is a recipe for auto-genocide.

They all gotta go.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

True. But the church is asking you to betray your extended family in the name of God. That is very different from some Leftist asking your to betray your extended family in the name of being nice. For a Christian, the latter is your choice but the former isn’t, you must obey. The church’s betrayal of their parishioners is fundamentally different from Jews and Good whites trying to trick the rest of us.

Exile
Member
Exile

Even deeply based Christians like the Godcast guys on TRS explicitly put their religion ahead of their kin, tribe, people & race. It’s a division at the root of belief that Jews and similar hijackers too easily exploit to mislead religion-first Christians.

Our Thing needs faith traditions, Christian and otherwise, that are Whites-first from the ground up. For Christianity to work in our future communities we have to seal the doctrinal cracks that allowed Katie McHugh to tell herself “doxxing my years-long friends and associates is OK b/c paganism.”

Member
Felix_Krull

But the church is asking you to betray your extended family in the name of God. But that’s dogmatic, isn’t it? It’s what Jesus admonished the apostles to do: the world is going to end shortly, so working to build a future for your family is futile. Lay down your hammers, your sickles and your fishing nets, leave your families to their own devices and help me save a shitton of foreigners from the fires of Hell! Modern, mainstream Christianity is basically about hugs and kisses for everyone, so no wonder churches are easily subverted by globalists. I’m reading Mistress… Read more »

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

Felix, All true, but the Church couldn’t have been this “we are the world” stupid from ~500 to 1965 or our peoples – and the Church as it was during that period – would have been long gone. Something changed. The Church got pozzed right along with the rest of whites. The Church wasn’t preaching about allowing in foreign hordes in the Middle Ages or even the 1700s. Turning them Christian, yes; letting them into your country, no. I didn’t grow up going to church so I don’t know squat about its teachings, but there’s something very troubling about its… Read more »

Member
Felix_Krull

there’s something very troubling about its collapse in the face of Leftists. It’s not just about leftism. The Church fell, primarily, to the scientific revolution’s new philosophy, forcing religion into an epistemology relying on blind faith rather than a claim of divine knowledge and truths. Before the scientific revolution, there was no essential difference between natural philosophy and religion, they were competing attempts to explain the cosmos in a systematic way, based on first principles. When the scientific revolution was over, religion had been rendered obsolete by a superior cosmology; it was no longer a feasible way to explain the… Read more »

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

Yeah, a lot of what’s going on can be traced back to the Enlightenment.

Guest
Guest
Guest

Exactly this. I’ve been getting downvoted around here for pointing out that the dissident right, including Christians, is going to have to face the fact that Christianity is a failed religion. The fact is that Christianity crumbled in the face of modernity. The faith is dying, and its adherents in the West are quite literally dying out. By the end of this century Europe will be part of the Muslim world and the US will be a secular version of Mexico Norte. All major Christian churches have embraced Universalism, and it will be their death knell.

AltitudeZero
Guest
AltitudeZero

Modernist, liberal Christianity has failed, and rightly so. But history is long, and there’s more to the Faith than churches. We’ll see.

Guest
Guest
Guest

This line of defense is the Christian analogue to the Communist’s defense that “nobody’s implemented Communism correctly” when confronted with the fact that all Communist societies fail.

Look, if you find some personal salvation in Chrisianity, that’s great for you on a personal level. But it does not excuse you from taking a sober look at the role of Christianity in the modern world. Modern Christianity has become a detrimental force that is quite literally destroying the peoples who embrace it.

Mark Taylor
Guest
Mark Taylor

They say that because communism has never worked. Christianity has worked, and even worked as a defense against hordes invading Europe.

Ifrank
Guest
Ifrank

I see your point, Guest, but I’m thinking perhaps you may be painting with too broad a brush. Christianity covers a wide spectrum of beliefs and practices. My Christian church is bible based and mostly apolitical. I attend because of tradition, shared values and I like to be around good solid spiritual people. You make a fair point though. Many Christian churches have, sadly, been infiltrated by leftist ideology.

Member

The future is unpredictable. Looking backwards, the predictions are the things you can throw out and say well at least that’s not going to happen

Exile
Member
Exile

Asking people to give up their lifelong faith is a very tough filter to pass. I’d like to leave a door open for Christians who are willing to put their people first. I don’t think it takes an entire reboot. Pre-Scofield Bible Protestantism and pre-Vatican II Catholicism weren’t torn at the roots by universalism, Chosen theology, etc…

On a long timeline, you’re right though. If Christianity doesn’t make these changes, it’s a net-negative faith for Us that’s going to die, because we’re the only ones strong enough to keep it alive – if we care to.

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

Exile,

May I humbly offer, 1 Timothy 5:8.

I know you are looking in this thread of a pragmatic use for Christianity for Our People.

There it is. We take care of Ours. First. Christianity as an outreach or bridge to span the gap between other peoples is desirable but we care for those within the walls as our priority.

Member

You can find whatever you are looking for in the Bible. In hindsight, I think the Catholics were correct in suppressing translations of the Bible. Why hand over this stuff to unstable sociopaths? Keep the information under wraps and keep the masses content and worry-free by throwing a little water on them whenever they get upset. Instead, we got Billy Sunday. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Sunday

Ifrank
Guest
Ifrank

I wouldn’t/didn’t vote you down Guest, as your prognostication, following current trend lines, seems clear headed to me.

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

Even E. Michael Jones, who is “woke” on the JQ, insists that the Catholic faith>race. And any facts about what sort of individual behavior or group culture purportedly “Christian” Negroes and others create are out of bounds. I don’t larp about my belief in God, but neither do I deny that by modern standards (accepting everyone of every race as one’s “brother in Christ”) I have never fit the definition of a Christian. The question is whose definition is correct – the virtue signalers’ or those of us who consider personal salvation, rather than a version of ‘tikun olam,’ the… Read more »

AltitudeZero
Guest
AltitudeZero

I’ve been commenting too much here, but one last comment on the “spiritual equality” business. I take the same position that I believe the Boers took back in the old Apartheid days – that all races had spiritual equality, just as individuals did, but just as spiritual equality does not imply actual physical and mental equality among individuals, neither does it imply racial uniformity, or mandate treating different groups of people the same. A person with an IQ of 80 might be your spiritual superior in the eyes of God, but that doesn’t mean that we put him in charge… Read more »

AltitudeZero
Guest
AltitudeZero

Not a theologian, of course, but look at what Paul really wrote about different roles for men and women, etc, and see if this can be taken as any kind of endorsement of blanket “equality” in the modern sense – I say no.

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

Altitude Zero,

Nicely summed up. I’ve met people of lesser physical or mental stature that I am quite sure are spiritual titans in the eyes of God. It doesn’t mean I want them landing my plane. In addition, God established the various tribes of this world for His reasons. We can love one another, seek mutual cooperation, extend mercy and charity, and to some small degree live alongside each other but to demand we all subvert ourselves and God’s will by forcing ourselves to mesh into one amorphous blob is unwise and unholy.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Another hate tweet:

“If God created different types of Tiger, or allowed them to evolve differently, and loves them, why can’t we say God allowed different types of Human (race).”

sheliak
Guest
sheliak

You’ve hit on a core dilemma Christian believers currently face. If white western peoples indeed face persecution or worse; are they morally obliged to defend themselves by force if necessary; or are they morally obliged to turn the other cheek and accept discrimination, enslavement or annihilation?

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Sheliak, an example:
“Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord”

If we accept that this was an edict by an actual king, a legal principle that reduced family vendettas and intratribal skirmish, we can accept that it did and does work– per scale.

I don’t wish to eliminate or discard Christianity’s successes.
I wish to scale it back to usable size.

The human question and the cosmic question are different scale; to mix them is the supremacist boast of slavetrader bandits.

In short, “our god is above yours-
Yehuda ackbar!”

AltitudeZero
Guest
AltitudeZero

It’s only a dilemma for those very small sects of Christianity that are pacifist; almost all denominations of Christianity accept the idea of self-defense and just war, and have for a long time. Philosophical pacifism was considered a heresy in most Christian denominations right up until the Twentieth Century. Hell, even Leftist squish Christians think that the “oppressed” have a right to use violence to seek “justice” – that’s why the World Council of Churches back the (most decidedly non-pacifist) African National Congress.

Rcocean
Guest
Rcocean

Exactly. Tolerance is great, but i don’t see Jews/Muslims worrying about attacks on the Catholic Church or the Church of England. And if Judaism is so great, why do we need a Catholic Church? Just quit the priesthood and get a Yamaka.

Exile
Member
Exile

First Things – for Last Men. Cucktholicism has proven a huge disappointment for me in the past 5 years or so of my ex-Prot converso. I came into the fold through hard-trad Rorate Caeli Catholicism and confess to a ludicrously romanticized view of St. John Paul II. One body-blow and head-shot after another has left my nascent Catholicism bleeding on the tiles. Every month, more butt-stuff from the Lavender Mafia. Every day, Francis washing some orc’s nether-parts and tossing the dirty bathwater on Church traditions, Whites and European culture. Catholic school alums & adjacents like Sandra Fluke, Butt-gigger and the… Read more »

John Smith
Member

Pack your bags and hit the road. They aren’t going to change. They will blow up the Vatican first. Other than the ancient texts and antiquities it would be no real loss.

The real churches are now underground. I happened to find one purely on luck alone. Check out the small ones, for the larger ones are almost certainly pozzed.

Member

Now you can have that inner monolog between Apollonian versus Dionysian. I trend more toward the Dionysian. I mean, why else have an advanced nervous system?

Ifrank
Guest
Ifrank

Apollonian versus Dionysian. Aristotle versus Plato. “The Light and the Cave”. Arthur Miller. Traces the influence of those two fellows throughout history. Good book.

Doppelbadger
Guest
Doppelbadger

The problem is that any organization is infiltratable, and the left, being the parasites they are, will infiltrate any and all organizations. For you and me, being non-sociopaths, it would seem strange to join some organization that we don’t believe in at all in order to work for decades to destroy it from the inside. But the left is the party of the sociopath, and that’s how they do. It’s another example of the thorny Principles Problem, inherent in modern politics, whereby the right is disadvantaged by their principles, while the left has no such restrictions. If I were a… Read more »

Ifrank
Guest
Ifrank

…better still, you and your bible and other me and my bible folks. Religion needs community.

Maus
Guest
Maus

Everything you wrote is true, Exile, but it’s not the Truth, i.e. the transcendental value. Every person you mentioned is a deeply flawed human; but you did not mention Jesus Christ, Who is the real point of the Catholic Thing and cannot be found amongst the pagans. I feel your pain. I am a cradle Catholic and a former monk; but the failed leadership of the Church today is as bad as Judas the Betrayer. Have faith and do not abandon Him. We are called at this moment to be Simon of Cyrene, forced to carry an unwanted cross. Be… Read more »

Exile
Member
Exile

Thanks. The part of me that saw Truth in hierarchy is going to have to accept that we first need a better hierarchy. Hopefully Orthodoxy provides an alternative for Catholic-inclined Christians who cannot tolerate the profanation and secularization of Roman Catholicism.

The Rorate guys put these pieces out some years back re: Francis – I’ll share for those still on-side.

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/11/ten-tips-on-how-to-survive-calamitous.html

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2017/03/intervention-against-disastrous-pope.html

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

We must do as the Christians themselves did- forge something new, partaking of both the old pagan populist wisdom and the new Roman Christian State.

To remain trapped in amber is just that, trapped.
As Juri says, to go around the Maginot Line.

sheliak
Guest
sheliak

Agree. Certainly the history of the Catholic Church over 2000 years demonstrates that its institutions have failed the faithful more than served them. But the faith has endured.

BadThinker
Guest
BadThinker

I’m getting on board with the Orthodox too. I confess that I have very little experience with traditional Christianity as practiced prior to Protestantism. I’m probably going to be going without the wife because she insists that because Orthodox churches don’t “offer childcare” during the liturgy that they aren’t any good for us. She prefers the megachurch and the self-help lecture and concert as the main focus of going to church.

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

Bad Thinker: So bring your children with you. I’m not Orthodox, but the Episcopal church we attended for years had childcare – and our older son always preferred to stay with us for the Sunday service and Eucharist. At age 2-3 he loved watching the “parade” (the processional) and at age 5 he was asked to participate in it. He’s made numerous changes in his life and beliefs over the years (he’s moved toward RC historically), but the foundations of his Christian faith are solid.

Member

Speaking of modern church music….egad. Where’s the spiritual feeling? Christian lyrics put to rock and roll is the path to nihilism.

Exile
Member
Exile

There’s a place for modern music but the tone and quality has to be vastly elevated from what passes for “Christian Rock.” The worst part of that stuff is that 99% sounds so inauthentic. There’s literally no soul in it, just shallow cotton-candy on the same plane as coffee-shop folk singers.

Rusty Shackleford
Guest
Rusty Shackleford

Like Hank R. Hill said- they’re not making Christianity better, they’re making rock’n’roll worse…

BadThinker
Guest
BadThinker

It’s worse than rock and roll. It’s formulaic kitsch pop.

I’ll just leave this here. I think it basically hits all the craziness of the modern Evangelical movement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVAR85rorvU

Henry
Guest
Henry

You could start going to an SSPX church. I see the appeal of the Orthodox, though, as long as it can do better than the other churches at resisting consumerism and modernism.

Yves Vannes
Member

Buckley Conservatism has done its job almost perfectly: They corralled the innate group interests of whites with rules, arguments, documents and acceptable sensibilities. They’ve effectively bridled our nature with BS for decades. They provided enough of a drag on the hydra-headed progressive monster to keep it from getting too out of control too early and forcing the awakening of a true opposition. They did this while still provoking the proggies toward their endless revolution. The inevitable has happened. Innate biology is forcing to the surface what the carrot and stick had kept burried for so long. Now that a real… Read more »

Exile
Member
Exile

Blood, soul & soil > ideology, materialism & viewing your nation as a great hotel.

We’re the ones who have to figure out how to translate the real First Things into the language of modernity. There is more depth on a second-tier Dis-Right podcast than flagship midwit shill-rags like First Things, NR or Human Descents.

Yves Vannes
Member

Because we are limited in our access to open lines of communication things are moving slower than we’d like but they are moving in our direction. The increased volatility that will accompany the next election will drive people our way. As you’ve implied, having easily digestible and understandable explanations for these people is something we should be paying more attention to. A lot more. We’ve been so deeply embedded on our side of the divide for so long that developing normie-friendly introductions will become more and more difficult the more we put it off and remain insular. We should all… Read more »

CAPT S
Guest
CAPT S

Christians and the Church who self-identify as conservative or classical liberals too often skip the larger point – TRUTH. Once foundational truth and reality are agreed upon, then by all means let’s enjoy some “free speech” in addressing cultural ills – Z-man leads that discussion here on a daily basis. But dialogue without having first confronted reality is pointless … or even worse, leads to cascading error. Just consider where “all men are created equal” has taken us. So to put free speech before identification of foundational truth is to put the cart before the horse. That’s why we can’t… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

I saw a tweet that said: “God is not offended by truth”.

The thread was about calling a spade, a spade.

For instance, quoting FBI stats or someone else’s own words are neither racist or phobic.

Edit: ah, found it–
“If what you’re saying is TRUE, you’ll never upset God or Christ. Everything we’re saying about race, identity, etc. is factually true.
So say it.”

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

(Which means I should probably apologise to the Penitent Man again, as I made a less than delicate bit of a joke yesterday.

Sigh. I do apologise. I am a rather slow learner.)

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

Alzaebo, No need, Sir. I was a soldier for many years and have thick skin. If you worked alongside me with the men I do, you’d know gentle and not-so-gentle ribbing is as common as breathing. I try to put on my best Sunday clothes when I comment here out of respect for the people posting here and our host. Even then I raged at someone once for what I thought was blatant stupidity and found myself guilty of hypocrisy in doing so. I’m flawed. I cuss, fight a predilection for chewing tobacco, have a flaring temper, am often unforgiving,… Read more »

Member

“Like common street walkers, conservatives have been willing to jump into whatever car pulls up to the curb.”

The GOP establishment has been doing this for so long, they don’t even care whose side they are on so long as the donor cash keeps coming in. Since when did the GOPe care about a damned thing other than chamber of commerce boosterism? Charlie Kirk is merely their latest attack dog in this long-running carnival show.

Rcocean
Guest
Rcocean

Look at the latest example. Kemp gets elected in GA and he gives the Senate seat to RINO “Big Donor” who loves Mitt Romney and Abortion. Incredible! And of course, Conservative Inc. is doing cartwheels.

Member

I rest my case, your honor.

Da Booby
Guest

Kind of off topic, but yesterday Mr. Z brought up the hockey coach firing. Last night the Booby’s ex took him to see two stand up comedians. The main act was Danny Bhoy, whom we saw first about five years ago. At the time he was very funny. Last night he turned totally political, he spent the last half of the show skewering anyone skeptical of “climate change”, pro- Brexit, pro-Trump, while fawning shamelessly like a schoolgirl over Justin Trudeau. The Booby wanted to leave but had to tough it out. The opening act was a Newfie fellow who was… Read more »

Mark Taylor
Guest
Mark Taylor

The culture has been allowed to fester this way. Changing it will take time. At the ground level we tolerated it though. Auntie Moonbat knows there’s no consequences for calling every white person a racist. Many do it just to fit in. They need to be made to understand in no uncertain terms they do not fit in.

Slandering whites is slandering my children. Those that do it are not welcome, in, around, or near my family.

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

Mark Taylor: Agreed. Yet you will find far too many insisting that one not confront anti-Whites at Thanksgiving or Christmas, in the name of false “family unity” or merely general comity. I strongly disagree. As you so well stated, “Slandering Whites is slandering my children” and they are not welcome, ever, among me and mine.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

I actually just did that with someone. I didn’t attack her, I simple said to her privately, “Look, you can believe what you want, but I’m proud of my people, my ancestors, so I’d ask you to not trash on them when I’m around.” No accusations of her being the “real racist” or anything. I just let her know that I won’t tolerate such talk in my presence. She seemed genuinely surprised that anyone would feel that way, which shows you how far we have to go. She also said that she would watch what she said around me, which… Read more »

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

Citizen: Surely your wife values your moral stance and principles? Most women are all about going along and getting along, but then I’m not most women. I only go to my husband’s office Christmas party every 2-3 years because I’m so angry at the company. I can’t read Amren anymore because all the female commenters there are all about being nice to everyone who’s miscegenating (a ton of the commenters). I suppose my marriage must be an inversion in a sense – it’s my hubby who’s the nice guy everyone likes and he’s always reminding me to watch my tongue… Read more »

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

She does, and she’s defended me before after some comment or other, but she’s not a dissident. Outside of her personal world, she’s still a color-blind CivNat type. In her world, she’d never live in a heavily black or Hispanic area or send our kids to school with POC. Sounds odd, but that’s where most white are.

In her defense, she married a not-so-color-blind CivNat back in the day. I’m the one who has changed, not her.

John Smith
Member

What province are you in, Boob? I am in Alberta and am watching the lefties struggling to do humour and they seem to be failing utterly. Maybe it is because I am a grumpy old man? For me, most of the jokes aren’t funny. I watched “This Hour Has 22 Minutes” go from being worth the odd smirk – to being downright painful. Watching that fat slag, Mary Walsh do her thing just turned me right off. I haven’t watched CBC or any of the other networks in years. I haven’t seen any real humour in Canada for some time.… Read more »

Da Booby
Guest

The Booby’s your brethren, good sir. A signer of the petition to form the Wexit Party and a member of the Alberta Independence Party. More info the Booby cannot divulge 😉

The Booby hasn’t watched CBC in years, decades perhaps, purely on principle. Not even hockey, though frankly the game’s so watered down and politically correct now the Booby won’t watch it anymore on any channel. The young folks say we can “stream it”. No idea how to do that. Don’t really care.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

What? Hockey, Canadian humor, watered down PC?

Ye gods. 3 years ago Canadian humor was scandalously racist and so funny. “Of course you drive bettah, you can see the lights with you big round-eye!”
Hockey was still a major cut above curling.

The vinegar-tongued scolds eat through our racist institutions like the Alien’s acid.

Member
Felix_Krull

…Canadian humor…

Boss: Mr. Krull, I’m going to Canada tomorrow and won’t be back until after Chrismas.

Me: Why would you want to go to Canada for Christmas? The only thing in Canada is hockey players and cam whores.

Boss: My wife is from Canada.

Me: I see. And what team does she play for, sir?

TomA
Guest
TomA

Endless whining, no matter by who or for what reason, does not improve robustness or strength. Rather, whining is a contagious social disease that is best avoided. In the old days, when a whiner chose to get in your face, they were given one fair-warning to beat it. If they persisted, they acquired a crooked nose for their trouble and that is as nature intended.

Sperg Adjacent
Guest
Sperg Adjacent

Fair enough, Mr. Schmitz: you try to silence us, and we’ll try to silence you. How would you like that?

ChetRollins
Guest
ChetRollins

A shame, since circa little bit Schmitz, Ahmari, and some others seemed to start to get it only to become bootlickers again when there was a chance of real risk to their livelihood.

When we win, we will remember the cucks.

AltitudeZero
Guest
AltitudeZero

Once again, it’s that Holy Civil Rights Revolution and Holocaustianity. Once criticism started to trend in that direction, panic set in. Personally, I accept the general truth of the Holocaust narrative, but boy, these guys certainly seem to have their doubts! If you say that the 5,999,999 Jews died instead of six million – DENIER!. If you say that most Jews were shot by Einsatzgruppen, rather than gassed – DENIER! If you say that a significant number of the dead were killed by disease – DENIER!.
Makes you wonder whay they are afraid of sometimes.

Mike_C
Guest
Mike_C

I’ve always thought the following would make a good T-shirt or bumper sticker:

5,999,999 = Hate Crime
5,999,999+1 = Good Think

AltitudeZero
Guest
AltitudeZero

Pretty much…

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Well, as to that, the “most documented event in history” should be a snap to prove.

Easy-peasy! Simple as that!
So, where are the remains, the infrastructure, the supply requests, the orders, the documentation, the files…
where are the goddam bodies?

Lineman
Guest
Lineman

Their whole life is based on lies so to have any self worth they have to keep lying otherwise their whole life would become unravelled…

JR Wirth
Guest
JR Wirth

Thank goodness that no one outside the think tank bubble has heard of First Things. The two biggest problems are Fox News and Breitbart and their hospice care audiences. Conservative Inc. itself is an oxygen generator for a dying patient, called the establishment. These are the two big policy Conservative Inc. echo chambers, one with info-sluts in pumps, and the other the same diatribe only in print edition. Even Drudge, for all of his AIDS articles is not as bad as these two, and puts up an article or two showing the demographic reality.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Are you all familiar with the French Revolution? Do you know who the Jacobins are? Can you describe the role of Robespierre? If not, it’s time you did. It starts with people looking for a better future and a bit more gibs coming their way. It gets transmuted into praise for the “state” as a substitute for religion. It buys into the perfectibility of man through concepts of “equality” and “participation”. The facade of “fairness” and the duty of men to bend to the “popular will”, the particular manifestations of which are spoon-fed to the masses, and are then made… Read more »

Maus
Guest
Maus

Dutch, I just want to say that I admire your combination of common sense and erudition. It is a real pleasure to see you slip the bonds of your usual laconic style (rarely have to click a “Read more” on your posts) to tie a history lesson to a Schama book and press for its relevance to Our Thing in the here-and-now. Kudos, sir.

Rwc1963
Guest
Rwc1963

Spot on +42

Mike_C
Guest
Mike_C

Whether the State can loose and bind In Heaven as well as on Earth: If it be wiser to kill mankind Before or after the birth– These are matters of high concern Where State-kept schoolmen are; But Holy State (we have lived to learn) Endeth in Holy War. Whether The People be led by The Lord, Or lured by the loudest throat: If it be quicker to die by the sword Or cheaper to die by vote– These are things we have dealt with once, (And they will not rise from their grave) For Holy People, however it runs, Endeth… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Kipling the Great. Based as they come.

The storytellers may have their “J”, the unknown author of Genesis, their Saul of Tarsus, Chaim Potok, and Philip Roth.

But we have Homer, Shakespeare, Kipling, and Frank Herbert. We shall see who tells a better story.

Exile
Member
Exile

“Underground” in the sense of separation is the way to go, no mystery that I support this approach. I’m working on a longish book review piece on “Out of the Mountains” by Bugman-soldier-correspondent David Kilcullen. It’s like a “do the opposite” roadmap for what we need to do. His take – modern trends are for high population, urban coastal plugged-in communities where 90% of people are going to live in the future. My take – Whites need to get “Into the Mountains,” low density village/town-sized communities based around fresh water, not salt water, with our own intra-connections and infrastructure, not… Read more »

CAPT S
Guest
CAPT S

So very true Dutch – thanks for the post and shared wisdom. History should remind us that any argument or movement to “imminentize the eschaton” should be given a wide berth. As for going gray I’d further recommend eradicating all bumper stickers from cars, MAGA hats from heads, slogans from t-shirts, etc. Avoid massed crowds, and nothing good happens after midnight. There could be another 100 years of creeping degeneracy, or something cataclysmic could happen next week. Plan for the former, live like the latter. We should continue to make attempts to peel potential allies away from the MAGA crowd,… Read more »

Ant Man Bee
Guest

It is interesting to watch the Left pivot from “Racism is teh Ultimate Evil!” to “White Supremacy/White Nationalism is the Ultimate Evil!” They made this rhetorical switch, of course, because they fully intend to remain racists (against Whites) and far more rabidly so, and their first try, “Racism is evil, but only Whites can be racists” just doesn’t work (1). So the demonizing of any White advocate of any stripe as a vile “Supremacist” is the winning ticket. I’d be very curious to hear Z’s (and others’) personal definition of what “White Nationalism” really is. “White Supremacy” is both very… Read more »

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

It is simply “a place of our own”. No more, and no less. The quest story, repeated with so many permutations over the eons, is simply the search for “a place of our own”. We are not covering new ground here, we are simply returning to the story that has been told for forever.

But, because of “how things are now”, this sort of thinking is allowed for everyone (all those “safe spaces” arguments) but us.

Ant Man Bee
Guest

btw, w/r/t footnote (1), in case any of you still try to argue with these demons… The reason “Only Whites can be racist” can’t work as an argument is, if only Whites can be racist, then that means racism is not a universal moral category. It is not a moral failing in its nature, it must be identified as some other human metaphysical construct. Anyone can be forgiven for a failing, but only believing Catholics can receive absolution from a Catholic priest through the sacrament of confession. Only Jews feel they have sinned if they eat meat and dairy at… Read more »

Rwc1963
Guest
Rwc1963

I think the notion of what is “white nationalism” at this stage is moot. Whites have their back against the metaphorical wall as it were and we collectively in the West don’t have a clue as how to respond to this. Seriously whites really don’t have a clue as to what to do. There is no real attempt at reaching normie whites or even informing them. Yet as Jordan Peterson showed, there is a vast hunger out there among younger whites for someone to show/tell/inform them of what’s going on. This is why they listen to Peterson while our side… Read more »

Horace
Guest
Horace

“… vast hunger … younger whites … what’s going on. ” I think that the root of the anti-white culture grew from the Communists’ response to the failure of European peoples (nations) to follow the Marxist script during the Communist revolutions that accompanied and followed World War 1. Commies had previously blamed ruling elites and assumed that the peoples would rally to communism. Reality proved them wrong, so the notion that Europeans nations must vanish as coherent political-cultural entities in order for there to be a global communist utopia became a centerpiece of their ideology. I think that this was… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Thanks much, Rod, I see all religion as an ecological function, as well.

Exile
Member
Exile

White Ecology is a pretty good term for it, albeit a bit exotic-sounding. I’d like to see that popularized. Humans have a natural affinity for nuclear family, clan, tribe/ethnicity and race, in that order. The highest-order organization we can reasonably sustain is the ethno-racial nation. Every ethnic group, not just Whites, should have a homeland within its own racial-nation-states. Modern conditions may complicate this but this is the ideal we plan for and incentivize. This allows each ethnic-racial group to play to its own strengths and compensate for its own weaknesses – to find its ecological/social niche. We can interact… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Well done, Ant, so well done.

We are unique. Even the Asians never got beyond hand-crafts.

The Babe
Guest
The Babe

I found the piece comical. It’s essentially a defense of Catholic authoritarianism. The author is posing as a Muscular Catholic: using the Rod of Truth and Authority to smash down heretics!

But the problem is that contemporary American Catholics don’t have the authority to do any such thing. They don’t have any practical power at all.

So while the puffed-up pose is of smiting the unCatholic, what is their bracingly “illiberal” method for actually “abjuring” debates in reality? Just hiding from us like pussies, LOL. They’re fantasizing about being medieval Popes while hiding under the bed.

One of Many Georges
Guest
One of Many Georges

And even the “Catholicism” which they purport to brutally and manfully shove up our ass, turns out to be–amazingly–just like modern leftism!

These guys, man.

Sleepy
Member
Sleepy

The one “conservative” that this Schmitz fellow approvingly references is…Irving Kristol, the father of Neoconservatism! Is this guy pro mass immigration? Check. Pro Israel? Check. Philo-Semite? Check. QED. This guy is no friend of anyone on our side of the great divide.

G Lordon Giddy
Guest
G Lordon Giddy

The only way this stuff has a chance of being stopped. The only way Conservatism inc. can get their shit flipped back on top of them is for the Christian church to take it on the chin for awhile.
Not from us but from the radical left.
Let the lunatics in the left bring their crap to normies and into their churches where they reside and we will see more white Christians coming our way.
And I am a Christian. But many of my fellow Christians support Zio Christianism and modernism which is destroying our culture.

CAPT S
Guest
CAPT S

There’s a lot to what you say. I’m a Christian as well as a student of church history. Comfortable, affluent Christians always slouch toward effeminate uselessness.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

The way to poison someone is to slip a bit of arsenic into their sweet wine- not all at once, but slowly, slowly…

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

The era of gentlemanly debate and the”open mind” has passed. Not sure why we continue to be shocked by the demonization.

Our tools must be propaganda, uncompromising steadfastness and merciless forays against our foes. Mockery, ad hominem attacks, and the exaggerated exploitation of situations are the new tools of war. It doesn’t matter of we lament the loss of battlefield chivalry, it’s a war to the knife.

We aren’t trying to justify our existence. We are trying to continue to exist.

Rcocean
Guest
Rcocean

You don’t win against an opponent who’s using poison gas, by wagging your finger at him. You use poison gas too. And then maybe he’ll stop or you’ll win. But too many Right wingers want to lose with dignity.

John billings
Guest
John billings

“ skirmishes running ahead of the main battle line in the culture war.” z man you are a poet! this essay, like so many you have written, makes me feel like a dummy. I’ve never even thought to give an intellectual rectal exam to conservative inc. I’m grateful to you for putting on the latex glove. Who knows how much they might have slid past me with their ( rhetoric).

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

“I’m grateful to you for putting on the latex glove.”
Ha! The Zman’s audience gives as good as it gets!

Severian
Guest

“After all, the Buckleyites called themselves Burkeans, not Hobbesians.” That’s the fundamental issue that divides Our Thing from everyone else. Since we’ve actually read Leviathan, we know that the social contract is wrong, not just in details, but fundamentally. And since we’ve read “Behemoth,” we know where the power of the state *really* comes from…

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

I know wit when I see it, such as that line–
But, umm, could you please give us unlettered types the Cliff notes version of “Burkeans, not Hobbesians”?

Asking for a friend, who will never read either Leviathan or Behemoth, the uncultured barbarian that he is.

Severian
Guest

[Apologies in advance for the length]. Hobbes’s “State of Nature” was a thought experiment in Leviathan. If you have a bunch of roughly-equal individuals, acting as free agents in a world with no associations, then “every man hath a right to every thing,” since nothing is out of bounds when it comes to preserving your own life. From that, Hobbes deduces “laws of nature” (#1 = “seek peace”), and from those, concludes that the only legitimate government rests on a “social contract” — we all lay down at least some of our rights, at least temporarily, to a stronger power… Read more »

Member

The thing about these “intellectual” publications like First Things, Quillette, and most libertarian egghead webzines, is that they are endlessly talking about these lofty ideals and complex theories that no one cares about. Their readers are smug in the superior intellect but nothing they talk about ever enters reality and they don’t really care. Arguing with people at the Mises page who think that if Africans just read more Austrian economics books, all of their problems would be solved, is equal parts morbidly fascinating and infuriating. I am not sure if they believe this nonsense or just talk about this… Read more »

Mark Taylor
Guest
Mark Taylor

I see this a lot. People are convinced for example Democrats are post-modernists. Ja’Quan can’t spell post-modernist. He wants stuff for Ja’Quan and his people.

I think they know in reality that the answers lead outside the Overton window, and they don’t want to go there so they spend a lot of time constructing their own fantasy in the safety of acceptable.

Rcocean
Guest
Rcocean

Most of these people are getting PAID to do this. Their real audience is NOT us, the conservative readers on the web. Their real audience is the DONORS. And the DONORS want an intellectual fig leaf for their greed and anti-American globalism. The writers are just pens for hire. Kevin Williamson would be preaching Marxism if you paid him enough.

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

Lies, indeed. They’re endlessly trying to persuade us that what we’re observing with our own eyes both locally and nationally isn’t true. The young people understand this and all Conservative, Inc. can do is demonize them because “muh Israel?” And “muh OPT hires?”

Gauss
Guest
Gauss

“…so-called conservatives like Mr. Schmitz are skirmishers, running ahead of the main battle line in the culture war. In this case, the job is to anathematize the critics, so they can be more easily dismissed by the main army of the Left.”

That’s the most accurate and concise characterization of Conservative Inc I’ve seen.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Since Citizen was kind enough to bring up the CQ, may I a word about the JQ? No. Not in that way. What I really mean is the EQ, the Elites Question. The Dark Triad traits of the JQ can be, have been, culturally appropriated by the high-function sociopaths, the 2% in any population. Their well-packaged compendium of culture war can be used by any ambitious monkey to get to the higher branches of the tree. And the two percent will do anything to climb. Is this in part because of defacto physical separation? The elites live in literally different… Read more »

Member

It depends if the perversion or wrongthink is acceptable. Cucky Chucky (Kirk) in answering about anal sex being a “conservative” value is that Gays have contributed to society (more than we paid for HIV?). Well don’t White Nationalists, or even White Supremacists contribute more? Werner Von Braun worked for a genocidal bigot, but with his help we got to the moon. Paul Nehlen is an inventor with many patents and businesses. Imagine if we could invite a million of the white supremacists to immigrate here to contribute to our GDP, and they wouldn’t have to assimilate to the Euro-Christian culture… Read more »

Member

Yes, they’re an interesting case. I just finished Rusty Reno’s book, “The Return of the Strong Gods.” He’s the editor of _First Things_, and it makes fascinating reading. He’s unusual amongst the Never Trump crowd in the sense that he understands what Trump was all about. His book is a detailed explanation of how and why the ruling class has betrayed everyone else. He places the cause in the post-war consensus that the strong gods – family, nation, race, religion, anything you might love and draw an identity from – are really dangerous and inevitably lead to Auschwitz. So, they’re… Read more »