First Lies

One of the defining features of the managerial class is how it uses rhetoric to shape the debate in order to eliminate the need for debate. They are not in the habit of debating their ideas and fads, mostly because they don’t want to debate those things. It is a soft-authoritarianism where they seek to shame and cajole their opposition out of the public square, so they don’t have to debate them. A good example of this is a piece on the debate between young activists and the racketeers.

The author of the piece is an editor of First Things, a publication that used to bill itself as a conservative religious journal aimed at “advancing a religiously informed public philosophy for the ordering of society.” As in the case of Buckley conservatism, establishment Christian organization set as their goal to fit themselves into the Progressive moral order. As a result, First Things is a thoroughly house-trained operation that offers no threat to the prevailing moral order.

Putting that aside, it is a great example of how the establishment, broadly defined here to include all the subgroups on the other side of the great divide, first seeks to shape the debate so as to exclude those seeking to debate them. In this case, the writer has no interest in addressing the actual core of the fight between the groypers and the racketeers of Conservative Inc. Instead, he claims the debate is between white nationalists and classical liberals over the issue of free speech.

There is a word for what he is doing here. It’s called lying. For starters, there is no definition of “white nationalist” that includes Nick Fuentes that would not also include the founders of Buckley conservatism or the Founders of the United States. If that is what the author intends, then he is the extreme radical here, claiming that the very founding of the nation is immoral. After all, the term “white nationalist” is currently defined to mean immoral, as in a heretic or blasphemer.

Calling Charlie Kirk and the other racketeers of Conservative Inc. “classical liberals” is a revealing bit of rhetoric. Within living memory, Buckley conservatives would have avoided such a description. Religious conservatives certainly would not have used the term positively. Up until the last generation or so, no right-winger would claim that society is no more than the sum of its individual members. After all, the Buckleyites called themselves Burkeans, not Hobbesians.

Once he redefines the sides in the dispute, he then gratuitously characterizes the nature of the dispute. On the one hand, he claims the sides disagree on Israel and homosexuality. On the other hand, he claims both sides agree on the value of free speech and debate. At best, this is a superficial analysis that suggests the author is unfamiliar with both sides of this battle. At worst it is an effort to frame the issue in such a way as to make it easy to defend Conservative Inc.

The claim is that Nick Fuentes is the bad guy, a white nationalist, who is not a real Christian, while Kirk is just a secular libertarian. The reason the “white nationalists” are attacking the classical liberal is Kirk foolishly embraced free speech. The writer spends the rest of his post on a rant about the dangers of white nationalism, a rant that is part of the stock rhetoric of the Left. In other words, in typical Progressive style, it’s all about the good guys and bad guys, the white hats and black hats.

Of course, you never debate the bad guys. To do so, as the Left always reminds us, is to legitimize them. Giving white nationalists a platform could lead people to think that their claims have legitimacy. In order to avoid that, the bad guys must be destroyed, which in this case means anathematized as social pariahs. Mr. Schmitz is doing exactly what dissidents have been accusing Conservative Inc. of doing for generations now, acting as a gate-keeper for the establishment.

To be more accurate, they are not just gate-keepers in a passive sense. That’s another lie they like to promote, as if they are just defending the status quo. In reality, so-called conservatives like Mr. Schmitz are skirmishers, running ahead of the main battle line in the culture war. In this case, the job is to anathematize the critics, so they can be more easily dismissed by the main army of the Left. The whole setup of the post is as a vehicle for pointing and shrieking at the dissidents.

It is rather ironic that the groyper’s actual complaint, the real dispute between them and the racketeers, is exactly what Schmitz is doing in this post. It is not a dispute over speech or individual liberty. Those things play an ancillary role, but they are not the primary issues. The issue is that allegedly conservative outfits like First Things have conserved nothing but their position within the Progressive establishment. They spend all of their time defending their alleged adversaries.

That is why Conservative Inc. has embraced left-wing rhetoric to defend itself against the dissidents. They have no choice. They cannot defend their behavior morally and they cannot defend their record. Like common street walkers, conservatives have been willing to jump into whatever car pulls up to the curb. In order to avoid admitting this, they have to shift the focus from themselves onto some bad guy. After many long years getting into lefty’s car, they have taken on his habits.

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181 thoughts on “First Lies

  1. Yes, they’re an interesting case. I just finished Rusty Reno’s book, “The Return of the Strong Gods.” He’s the editor of _First Things_, and it makes fascinating reading.

    He’s unusual amongst the Never Trump crowd in the sense that he understands what Trump was all about. His book is a detailed explanation of how and why the ruling class has betrayed everyone else. He places the cause in the post-war consensus that the strong gods – family, nation, race, religion, anything you might love and draw an identity from – are really dangerous and inevitably lead to Auschwitz. So, they’re the enemy.

    Really good analysis. But his prescription is amazing. It’s this: that the people responsible for this betrayal, who enforce the new rules, who have the most to gain from them, who think they can win the fight – all these people should encourage the re-emergence of the strong gods because, otherwise, the darker, scarier, chthonic strong gods of race and tribe will emerge as the backlash.

    You would think he is too smart to say such things. But either he knows who pays his salary or else he refuses to believe his team could fall so low. Tough to tell.

  2. It depends if the perversion or wrongthink is acceptable.

    Cucky Chucky (Kirk) in answering about anal sex being a “conservative” value is that Gays have contributed to society (more than we paid for HIV?). Well don’t White Nationalists, or even White Supremacists contribute more?

    Werner Von Braun worked for a genocidal bigot, but with his help we got to the moon.
    Paul Nehlen is an inventor with many patents and businesses.

    Imagine if we could invite a million of the white supremacists to immigrate here to contribute to our GDP, and they wouldn’t have to assimilate to the Euro-Christian culture and won’t demand entrance to the wrong restroom!

    The Conservative Case for fast-tracking white supremacist immigrants.

    Cucky Chucky tweeted “Ethnonationalism is un-American”. But “Zionism is ethnonationalism”. Aristotle needs to leave while he can.

  3. Since Citizen was kind enough to bring up the CQ, may I a word about the JQ?

    No. Not in that way.
    What I really mean is the EQ, the Elites Question.

    The Dark Triad traits of the JQ can be, have been, culturally appropriated by the high-function sociopaths, the 2% in any population.

    Their well-packaged compendium of culture war can be used by any ambitious monkey to get to the higher branches of the tree.
    And the two percent will do anything to climb.

    Is this in part because of defacto physical separation? The elites live in literally different physical spaces than do the hoi polloi, intersecting with their servants as little as possible.

    Reading a review of how two Prohibition ethnic gangsters led to the entire Epstein/Pizzagate universe, since Prohibition itself was a successful gambit to buy power and wipe out the WASP rulership, I realize that our problem of secretive, hostile elites may be far more manageable than we realize.

    They seem indomitable, but we outnumber them by millions to one.

    This brings up a further heresy, much deeper in time. What if our our Aryan ancestors, though adept, were truly murderous monsters? Was the Semitic revolution- total war without weapons, culture war, a necessary tempering by God or Nature to tame our wild kind?

  4. “…so-called conservatives like Mr. Schmitz are skirmishers, running ahead of the main battle line in the culture war. In this case, the job is to anathematize the critics, so they can be more easily dismissed by the main army of the Left.”

    That’s the most accurate and concise characterization of Conservative Inc I’ve seen.

  5. Lies, indeed. They’re endlessly trying to persuade us that what we’re observing with our own eyes both locally and nationally isn’t true. The young people understand this and all Conservative, Inc. can do is demonize them because “muh Israel?” And “muh OPT hires?”

  6. The thing about these “intellectual” publications like First Things, Quillette, and most libertarian egghead webzines, is that they are endlessly talking about these lofty ideals and complex theories that no one cares about. Their readers are smug in the superior intellect but nothing they talk about ever enters reality and they don’t really care. Arguing with people at the Mises page who think that if Africans just read more Austrian economics books, all of their problems would be solved, is equal parts morbidly fascinating and infuriating. I am not sure if they believe this nonsense or just talk about this sort of stuff to distract them from reality, but either way they are not just useless but kind of dangerous to the movement.

    • I see this a lot. People are convinced for example Democrats are post-modernists. Ja’Quan can’t spell post-modernist. He wants stuff for Ja’Quan and his people.

      I think they know in reality that the answers lead outside the Overton window, and they don’t want to go there so they spend a lot of time constructing their own fantasy in the safety of acceptable.

    • Most of these people are getting PAID to do this. Their real audience is NOT us, the conservative readers on the web. Their real audience is the DONORS. And the DONORS want an intellectual fig leaf for their greed and anti-American globalism. The writers are just pens for hire. Kevin Williamson would be preaching Marxism if you paid him enough.

  7. “After all, the Buckleyites called themselves Burkeans, not Hobbesians.” That’s the fundamental issue that divides Our Thing from everyone else. Since we’ve actually read Leviathan, we know that the social contract is wrong, not just in details, but fundamentally. And since we’ve read “Behemoth,” we know where the power of the state *really* comes from…

    • I know wit when I see it, such as that line–
      But, umm, could you please give us unlettered types the Cliff notes version of “Burkeans, not Hobbesians”?

      Asking for a friend, who will never read either Leviathan or Behemoth, the uncultured barbarian that he is.

      • [Apologies in advance for the length]. Hobbes’s “State of Nature” was a thought experiment in Leviathan. If you have a bunch of roughly-equal individuals, acting as free agents in a world with no associations, then “every man hath a right to every thing,” since nothing is out of bounds when it comes to preserving your own life.

        From that, Hobbes deduces “laws of nature” (#1 = “seek peace”), and from those, concludes that the only legitimate government rests on a “social contract” — we all lay down at least some of our rights, at least temporarily, to a stronger power in exchange for a measure of security. The questions then are, “what rights?” and “for how long?” Hobbes’s answers were “all of them” and “permanently,” which was unacceptable to guys like John Locke. Locke modified the Social Contract such that the King could break it (as Hobbes’s “Leviathan” couldn’t), and the People reserved the right to rebel.

        The problem with ALL social contract theory, though, is its fundamental assumption: Rough equality in the state of nature. There’s no such thing as a “state of nature,” and even if there were — e.g. a group of people stranded on a deserted island like Lord of the Flies — people are NOT equal in the state of nature. Not even roughly. Hobbes knew all this, and said so, but since it sure sounds right, we ignore the fact that it was only ever intended to be a thought experiment, not anthropology — Hobbes wanted to establish if there was such a thing as “natural right,” and, if so, what kind of government could be derived from it…

        Burke, by contrast, emphasized society’s organic nature. Wherever government comes from, it’s not made up of individuals. Rather, it’s the little platoons that make up society. Leave the link’s gripes aside; the point is that government is an organic outgrowth of actual society, not an artificial person drawn up by contract between nonexistent free agents negotiating in fantasy-land.

        As Z Man often points out, though, these days Conservative Inc. is very, very Hobbesian, in that they, like Hobbes’s thought experiment, assume that all men are nation-less, culture-less, a-historical free agents who only seek to maximize their temporary economic advantage. Why worry about the hollowing out of Winesburg, Ohio — the Conservative Inc. crowd asks — so long as the shareholders get a fat dividend? Same way with “democracy” — well, 50.1% voted to kill off 49.9%, so long, happy trails, them’s the rules, so it’s “legitimate.”

        In reality, as Hobbes says in Behemoth, “The power of the mighty hath no foundation, but in the opinion and belief of the people.” As soon as the 49.9% realize that the very same “arguments” that decree their abolition also legitimize whatever resistance they choose to make to the 51.1%, it’s time for Ft. Sumter II: Electric Boogaloo.

  8. “ skirmishes running ahead of the main battle line in the culture war.” z man you are a poet! this essay, like so many you have written, makes me feel like a dummy. I’ve never even thought to give an intellectual rectal exam to conservative inc. I’m grateful to you for putting on the latex glove. Who knows how much they might have slid past me with their ( rhetoric).

    • “I’m grateful to you for putting on the latex glove.”
      Ha! The Zman’s audience gives as good as it gets!

  9. The era of gentlemanly debate and the”open mind” has passed. Not sure why we continue to be shocked by the demonization.

    Our tools must be propaganda, uncompromising steadfastness and merciless forays against our foes. Mockery, ad hominem attacks, and the exaggerated exploitation of situations are the new tools of war. It doesn’t matter of we lament the loss of battlefield chivalry, it’s a war to the knife.

    We aren’t trying to justify our existence. We are trying to continue to exist.

    • You don’t win against an opponent who’s using poison gas, by wagging your finger at him. You use poison gas too. And then maybe he’ll stop or you’ll win. But too many Right wingers want to lose with dignity.

  10. The only way this stuff has a chance of being stopped. The only way Conservatism inc. can get their shit flipped back on top of them is for the Christian church to take it on the chin for awhile.
    Not from us but from the radical left.
    Let the lunatics in the left bring their crap to normies and into their churches where they reside and we will see more white Christians coming our way.
    And I am a Christian. But many of my fellow Christians support Zio Christianism and modernism which is destroying our culture.

    • There’s a lot to what you say. I’m a Christian as well as a student of church history. Comfortable, affluent Christians always slouch toward effeminate uselessness.

    • The way to poison someone is to slip a bit of arsenic into their sweet wine- not all at once, but slowly, slowly…

  11. The one “conservative” that this Schmitz fellow approvingly references is…Irving Kristol, the father of Neoconservatism! Is this guy pro mass immigration? Check. Pro Israel? Check. Philo-Semite? Check. QED. This guy is no friend of anyone on our side of the great divide.

  12. I found the piece comical. It’s essentially a defense of Catholic authoritarianism. The author is posing as a Muscular Catholic: using the Rod of Truth and Authority to smash down heretics!

    But the problem is that contemporary American Catholics don’t have the authority to do any such thing. They don’t have any practical power at all.

    So while the puffed-up pose is of smiting the unCatholic, what is their bracingly “illiberal” method for actually “abjuring” debates in reality? Just hiding from us like pussies, LOL. They’re fantasizing about being medieval Popes while hiding under the bed.

    • And even the “Catholicism” which they purport to brutally and manfully shove up our ass, turns out to be–amazingly–just like modern leftism!

      These guys, man.

  13. It is interesting to watch the Left pivot from “Racism is teh Ultimate Evil!” to “White Supremacy/White Nationalism is the Ultimate Evil!”

    They made this rhetorical switch, of course, because they fully intend to remain racists (against Whites) and far more rabidly so, and their first try, “Racism is evil, but only Whites can be racists” just doesn’t work (1). So the demonizing of any White advocate of any stripe as a vile “Supremacist” is the winning ticket.

    I’d be very curious to hear Z’s (and others’) personal definition of what “White Nationalism” really is. “White Supremacy” is both very rare and very easily understood (“Whites are entitled to rule over other races by virtue of their innate superiority”, a thing which almost nobody believes). But “White Nationalism” is presumably a broader, and thus looser and more slippery concept, and I could give a few different impromptu definitions, but not certain any of them would be correct.

    Because I have zero political influence in the world I give myself no labels and attach myself to no –isms, but my belief is in simple White Conservationism, or White Ecological Survivalism.

    Whites as a highly valuable and rare human phenotype are threatened with immanent extinction because:

    1. White people can only breed and reproduce successfully and robustly within territories which have an overwhelming White supermajority, and
    2. This is so because:
    a) Virtually all non-Whites would prefer to live among Whites rather than their own kind, and will do anything to squirm, wriggle, scam, or barge their way into White territories, and
    b) Virtually all non-White males would prefer to mate with White women. White women are universally desirable, so if non-Whites are present in large numbers in White breeding territories, then White men are in mating competition with not only other White men, but with all other men on the planet. The biological logic of such a scenario spells White extinction.

    Therefore, for Whites to survive as a unique phenotype, they MUST have Whites-only breeding territories.

    The need to isolate White breeding territories is not a matter of superiority or racism or supremacy, it is a simple biological imperative.

    So that, to me, is White Conservationism or White Ecology or White Separatism.

    What is “White Nationalism”?

    • It is simply “a place of our own”. No more, and no less. The quest story, repeated with so many permutations over the eons, is simply the search for “a place of our own”. We are not covering new ground here, we are simply returning to the story that has been told for forever.

      But, because of “how things are now”, this sort of thinking is allowed for everyone (all those “safe spaces” arguments) but us.

    • btw, w/r/t footnote (1), in case any of you still try to argue with these demons…

      The reason “Only Whites can be racist” can’t work as an argument is, if only Whites can be racist, then that means racism is not a universal moral category. It is not a moral failing in its nature, it must be identified as some other human metaphysical construct. Anyone can be forgiven for a failing, but only believing Catholics can receive absolution from a Catholic priest through the sacrament of confession. Only Jews feel they have sinned if they eat meat and dairy at the same time, nobody else cares. Only Muslims have to pray facing Mecca.

      If only Whites can be racist, then the thing to do is move away from them and leave them alone. Moral shrieking a ails naught, because morality is not in play.

    • I think the notion of what is “white nationalism” at this stage is moot. Whites have their back against the metaphorical wall as it were and we collectively in the West don’t have a clue as how to respond to this.

      Seriously whites really don’t have a clue as to what to do. There is no real attempt at reaching normie whites or even informing them. Yet as Jordan Peterson showed, there is a vast hunger out there among younger whites for someone to show/tell/inform them of what’s going on. This is why they listen to Peterson while our side does nothing to capitalize on it and leverage it to their advantage.

      That said, thinking about the situation ecologically as you do makes a lot more sense than using outdated political models from the last century when the situation for whites was much different.

      • “… vast hunger … younger whites … what’s going on. ”

        I think that the root of the anti-white culture grew from the Communists’ response to the failure of European peoples (nations) to follow the Marxist script during the Communist revolutions that accompanied and followed World War 1. Commies had previously blamed ruling elites and assumed that the peoples would rally to communism. Reality proved them wrong, so the notion that Europeans nations must vanish as coherent political-cultural entities in order for there to be a global communist utopia became a centerpiece of their ideology. I think that this was contemporaneous with the Coudenhove-Kalergi Plan which was gestated in the post-Miracle-on-the-Vistula ‘where did we grow wrong’ phase of reflection that communist intelligentsia went through during the 1920’s.

        Young whites, hating yourselves and your people is not going to fix the world. White people have fixed WAY WAY more problems in this world than we have caused.

    • White Ecology is a pretty good term for it, albeit a bit exotic-sounding. I’d like to see that popularized.

      Humans have a natural affinity for nuclear family, clan, tribe/ethnicity and race, in that order. The highest-order organization we can reasonably sustain is the ethno-racial nation.

      Every ethnic group, not just Whites, should have a homeland within its own racial-nation-states. Modern conditions may complicate this but this is the ideal we plan for and incentivize.

      This allows each ethnic-racial group to play to its own strengths and compensate for its own weaknesses – to find its ecological/social niche. We can interact on the fringes for mutual benefit, but 90% of our energies are best focused on our own in-groups.

      In this environment, Whites and compatible tech-high-achievers like the Han & Japanese may be able to next-frontier us into space before Earth becomes a Malthusean trap so freighted with Sun People that we can’t reach evolutionary-socio-pollitical escape-velocity.

      The alternative being forced on us by Globoshlomo ends with a pre-interstellar version of Gene Wolfe’s “New Sun,” a world of medieval-tech serfs with a thin crust of artisans, traders & craftsmen, ruled by an effectively god-like 1% who are too busy amusing themselves to death to concern themselves with First Things or even Next Things.

  14. Are you all familiar with the French Revolution? Do you know who the Jacobins are? Can you describe the role of Robespierre? If not, it’s time you did. It starts with people looking for a better future and a bit more gibs coming their way. It gets transmuted into praise for the “state” as a substitute for religion. It buys into the perfectibility of man through concepts of “equality” and “participation”. The facade of “fairness” and the duty of men to bend to the “popular will”, the particular manifestations of which are spoon-fed to the masses, and are then made sacrosanct. The elites are a combination of ineptitude on the face of things, combined with raw greed and the willingness to manipulate the masses to fulfill their needs, behind the scenes (meet the new boss, same as the old boss). Meanwhile, the masses of normies are whipped into an emotional fervor, where they are coached on what to think, and whipped into an emotional frenzy, to the point where they feel justified in seeing anyone who disagrees with them, on anything, as deserving of death. They don’t want to actually operate the guillotine, but they are willing to simply report on their neighbors and then look the other way, and absolve themselves of any culpability, by having some unnamed masked person make the blade fall and the blood flow. The only way this plays out is to exhaustion, where everyone is suspect, and everyone is vulnerable. We are halfway there, and the train has left the station.

    What does this mean for us? It means that arguing over who said what is pointless; that kind of thing is either a parlor game or a playground standoff. The real point is how does one survive in an all-against-all environment, where people feel perfectly justified in wishing death to their own countrymen, if they disagree about anything, and there are forces waiting in the wings to deliver on those wishes?

    History tells us that the fair responses are to go underground, preferably away from any big city, and to go grey; or to emigrate away. That’s it. Stay out of the papers and away from social media, which serve no other purpose now, other than to decide who gets a target painted on his forehead. There is a small chance of finding our way out of this without massive bloodshed, but that chance gets smaller every day. Once people are comfortable wishing pain and death on people they disagree with, the slope is steep and slippery, and things go where they will. And that is my blackpill for the day.

    We are coached to ignore the French Revolution, and there is a reason for that, because it exposes exactly what is going on today. Argue the details, but the underlying story is the same old thing. My entry to understanding all of this is “Citizens” by Simon Schama. He is one of them, and tilts the story his way at critical moments, but he is a good storyteller, and the thing reads like a novel. It was written when the times were different, so the tale is open about many of the current implications, which is a good thing, as an author would likely mask the true parallels of what went on, if it were written today. Schama freely speaks of the kinds of manipulations and the “need to not know things” that are so prevalent today, because these exact things were not so front-and-center in our culture a few years ago. I don’t think this book could be published today.

    • Dutch, I just want to say that I admire your combination of common sense and erudition. It is a real pleasure to see you slip the bonds of your usual laconic style (rarely have to click a “Read more” on your posts) to tie a history lesson to a Schama book and press for its relevance to Our Thing in the here-and-now. Kudos, sir.

    • Whether the State can loose and bind
      In Heaven as well as on Earth:
      If it be wiser to kill mankind
      Before or after the birth–
      These are matters of high concern
      Where State-kept schoolmen are;
      But Holy State (we have lived to learn)
      Endeth in Holy War.

      Whether The People be led by The Lord,
      Or lured by the loudest throat:
      If it be quicker to die by the sword
      Or cheaper to die by vote–
      These are things we have dealt with once,
      (And they will not rise from their grave)
      For Holy People, however it runs,
      Endeth in wholly Slave.

      Whatsoever, for any cause,
      Seeketh to take or give
      Power above or beyond the Laws,
      Suffer it not to live!
      Holy State or Holy King–
      Or Holy People’s Will–
      Have no truck with the senseless thing.
      Order the guns and kill!

      MacDonough’s Song

      • Kipling the Great. Based as they come.

        The storytellers may have their “J”, the unknown author of Genesis, their Saul of Tarsus, Chaim Potok, and Philip Roth.

        But we have Homer, Shakespeare, Kipling, and Frank Herbert. We shall see who tells a better story.

    • “Underground” in the sense of separation is the way to go, no mystery that I support this approach.

      I’m working on a longish book review piece on “Out of the Mountains” by Bugman-soldier-correspondent David Kilcullen. It’s like a “do the opposite” roadmap for what we need to do.

      His take – modern trends are for high population, urban coastal plugged-in communities where 90% of people are going to live in the future.

      My take – Whites need to get “Into the Mountains,” low density village/town-sized communities based around fresh water, not salt water, with our own intra-connections and infrastructure, not Hive-controlled inter-connections.

    • So very true Dutch – thanks for the post and shared wisdom. History should remind us that any argument or movement to “imminentize the eschaton” should be given a wide berth. As for going gray I’d further recommend eradicating all bumper stickers from cars, MAGA hats from heads, slogans from t-shirts, etc. Avoid massed crowds, and nothing good happens after midnight.

      There could be another 100 years of creeping degeneracy, or something cataclysmic could happen next week. Plan for the former, live like the latter. We should continue to make attempts to peel potential allies away from the MAGA crowd, but proselytizing is secondary to community preps.

  15. Thank goodness that no one outside the think tank bubble has heard of First Things. The two biggest problems are Fox News and Breitbart and their hospice care audiences. Conservative Inc. itself is an oxygen generator for a dying patient, called the establishment. These are the two big policy Conservative Inc. echo chambers, one with info-sluts in pumps, and the other the same diatribe only in print edition. Even Drudge, for all of his AIDS articles is not as bad as these two, and puts up an article or two showing the demographic reality.

  16. Their whole life is based on lies so to have any self worth they have to keep lying otherwise their whole life would become unravelled…

  17. Fair enough, Mr. Schmitz: you try to silence us, and we’ll try to silence you. How would you like that?

    • A shame, since circa little bit Schmitz, Ahmari, and some others seemed to start to get it only to become bootlickers again when there was a chance of real risk to their livelihood.

      When we win, we will remember the cucks.

      • Once again, it’s that Holy Civil Rights Revolution and Holocaustianity. Once criticism started to trend in that direction, panic set in. Personally, I accept the general truth of the Holocaust narrative, but boy, these guys certainly seem to have their doubts! If you say that the 5,999,999 Jews died instead of six million – DENIER!. If you say that most Jews were shot by Einsatzgruppen, rather than gassed – DENIER! If you say that a significant number of the dead were killed by disease – DENIER!.
        Makes you wonder whay they are afraid of sometimes.

        • I’ve always thought the following would make a good T-shirt or bumper sticker:

          5,999,999 = Hate Crime
          5,999,999+1 = Good Think

        • Well, as to that, the “most documented event in history” should be a snap to prove.

          Easy-peasy! Simple as that!
          So, where are the remains, the infrastructure, the supply requests, the orders, the documentation, the files…
          where are the goddam bodies?

  18. Endless whining, no matter by who or for what reason, does not improve robustness or strength. Rather, whining is a contagious social disease that is best avoided. In the old days, when a whiner chose to get in your face, they were given one fair-warning to beat it. If they persisted, they acquired a crooked nose for their trouble and that is as nature intended.

  19. Kind of off topic, but yesterday Mr. Z brought up the hockey coach firing.

    Last night the Booby’s ex took him to see two stand up comedians. The main act was Danny Bhoy, whom we saw first about five years ago. At the time he was very funny. Last night he turned totally political, he spent the last half of the show skewering anyone skeptical of “climate change”, pro- Brexit, pro-Trump, while fawning shamelessly like a schoolgirl over Justin Trudeau. The Booby wanted to leave but had to tough it out.

    The opening act was a Newfie fellow who was quite funny until he started in about the Don Cherry firing. For you non-Hosers Don Cherry is an icon of Canadian hockey, and probably as loved as, say, John Madden was in the States. Two weeks ago he was fired from his TV job for complaining that immigrants weren’t wearing poppies to honour the country’s war dead. His crime? He used the term “you people” when referring to immigrants.

    Anyways, this is already getting to be a long story, but it exemplifies Mr. Z’s discussion yesterday. Mr. Cherry did not even say anything overtly racist, only something that a few fascist-minded people chose to interpret as racist. For this he was fired and had his life overturned. The day afterward some hen on the Hoser version of The View stated that doesn’t like hockey players because they are “white boys and bullies”. She was not fired. The network stands by her.

    Essentially a fundamentally decent white man can be sacrificed at the alter of PC and SJW for standards that apply to no one else. The Newfie comedian last night repeatedly referred to Mr. Cherry as a racist, and proceeded to suggest he would be better suited for Fox News. Of course, the audience was entirely upscale white people, who howled with joy and delighted in piling on, taking masturbatory pleasure in their own righteousness.

    The Booby doesn’t even particularly care for, or care about, Mr. Cherry, but any white man who has watched this unfold should be alarmed. It’s gotten to the point where you don’t even have to be a racist anymore. The bourgeois white woman and her grovelling halfman-toys need these sacrifices as desperately as the post-revolutionary French needed their daily beheadings.

    • The culture has been allowed to fester this way. Changing it will take time. At the ground level we tolerated it though. Auntie Moonbat knows there’s no consequences for calling every white person a racist. Many do it just to fit in. They need to be made to understand in no uncertain terms they do not fit in.

      Slandering whites is slandering my children. Those that do it are not welcome, in, around, or near my family.

      • Mark Taylor: Agreed. Yet you will find far too many insisting that one not confront anti-Whites at Thanksgiving or Christmas, in the name of false “family unity” or merely general comity. I strongly disagree. As you so well stated, “Slandering Whites is slandering my children” and they are not welcome, ever, among me and mine.

      • I actually just did that with someone. I didn’t attack her, I simple said to her privately, “Look, you can believe what you want, but I’m proud of my people, my ancestors, so I’d ask you to not trash on them when I’m around.”

        No accusations of her being the “real racist” or anything. I just let her know that I won’t tolerate such talk in my presence. She seemed genuinely surprised that anyone would feel that way, which shows you how far we have to go. She also said that she would watch what she said around me, which was nice of her. Granted, she’s not a complete SJW nut bag.

        Not sure what will happen the next time, but there will come a time when the other person says screw you, whites are bad and I won’t keep quiet about it. Obviously, this won’t happen with a friend, but it could easily happen with a friend’s wife or sister or a neighbor. That’s when it will get interesting and tough. Sorry, Mrs. Citizen, I’m not going to the neighborhood X-Mas party because neighbor XYZ refuses to not trash on whites when I’m around. I won’t care, but my wife won’t like it.

        • Citizen: Surely your wife values your moral stance and principles? Most women are all about going along and getting along, but then I’m not most women. I only go to my husband’s office Christmas party every 2-3 years because I’m so angry at the company. I can’t read Amren anymore because all the female commenters there are all about being nice to everyone who’s miscegenating (a ton of the commenters). I suppose my marriage must be an inversion in a sense – it’s my hubby who’s the nice guy everyone likes and he’s always reminding me to watch my tongue in public. They just don’t know what he really thinks or says at home, because he’s far more socially adept than I.

          • She does, and she’s defended me before after some comment or other, but she’s not a dissident. Outside of her personal world, she’s still a color-blind CivNat type. In her world, she’d never live in a heavily black or Hispanic area or send our kids to school with POC. Sounds odd, but that’s where most white are.

            In her defense, she married a not-so-color-blind CivNat back in the day. I’m the one who has changed, not her.

    • What province are you in, Boob?

      I am in Alberta and am watching the lefties struggling to do humour and they seem to be failing utterly. Maybe it is because I am a grumpy old man? For me, most of the jokes aren’t funny. I watched “This Hour Has 22 Minutes” go from being worth the odd smirk – to being downright painful. Watching that fat slag, Mary Walsh do her thing just turned me right off. I haven’t watched CBC or any of the other networks in years.

      I haven’t seen any real humour in Canada for some time. I am cheered though, our politicos out here just told Turdo to shove his gun legislation up his pooper – so hopefully some punches will get thrown soon.

      • The Booby’s your brethren, good sir. A signer of the petition to form the Wexit Party and a member of the Alberta Independence Party. More info the Booby cannot divulge 😉

        The Booby hasn’t watched CBC in years, decades perhaps, purely on principle. Not even hockey, though frankly the game’s so watered down and politically correct now the Booby won’t watch it anymore on any channel. The young folks say we can “stream it”. No idea how to do that. Don’t really care.

        • What? Hockey, Canadian humor, watered down PC?

          Ye gods. 3 years ago Canadian humor was scandalously racist and so funny. “Of course you drive bettah, you can see the lights with you big round-eye!”
          Hockey was still a major cut above curling.

          The vinegar-tongued scolds eat through our racist institutions like the Alien’s acid.

          • …Canadian humor…

            Boss: Mr. Krull, I’m going to Canada tomorrow and won’t be back until after Chrismas.

            Me: Why would you want to go to Canada for Christmas? The only thing in Canada is hockey players and cam whores.

            Boss: My wife is from Canada.

            Me: I see. And what team does she play for, sir?

  20. “Like common street walkers, conservatives have been willing to jump into whatever car pulls up to the curb.”

    The GOP establishment has been doing this for so long, they don’t even care whose side they are on so long as the donor cash keeps coming in. Since when did the GOPe care about a damned thing other than chamber of commerce boosterism? Charlie Kirk is merely their latest attack dog in this long-running carnival show.

    • Look at the latest example. Kemp gets elected in GA and he gives the Senate seat to RINO “Big Donor” who loves Mitt Romney and Abortion. Incredible! And of course, Conservative Inc. is doing cartwheels.

  21. Christians and the Church who self-identify as conservative or classical liberals too often skip the larger point – TRUTH. Once foundational truth and reality are agreed upon, then by all means let’s enjoy some “free speech” in addressing cultural ills – Z-man leads that discussion here on a daily basis. But dialogue without having first confronted reality is pointless … or even worse, leads to cascading error. Just consider where “all men are created equal” has taken us.

    So to put free speech before identification of foundational truth is to put the cart before the horse. That’s why we can’t have dialogue with these people – they live in an alternate, fictional reality. As with any worldview conflict, once they start to recognize that their virtual reality is flawed they obfuscate or resort to ad hominem attacks … they’ll do anything/everything to avoid having to humble themselves and admit error.

    A lot of these debates and skirmishes are just theater. The entering argument – the only debate we should be having at this point – is to address the fallacy driving the culture war: Resolved: All men are NOT created equal. All cultures are NOT equal. Now then, let’s debate that.

    • I saw a tweet that said: “God is not offended by truth”.

      The thread was about calling a spade, a spade.

      For instance, quoting FBI stats or someone else’s own words are neither racist or phobic.

      Edit: ah, found it–
      “If what you’re saying is TRUE, you’ll never upset God or Christ. Everything we’re saying about race, identity, etc. is factually true.
      So say it.”

      • (Which means I should probably apologise to the Penitent Man again, as I made a less than delicate bit of a joke yesterday.

        Sigh. I do apologise. I am a rather slow learner.)

        • Alzaebo,

          No need, Sir. I was a soldier for many years and have thick skin. If you worked alongside me with the men I do, you’d know gentle and not-so-gentle ribbing is as common as breathing.

          I try to put on my best Sunday clothes when I comment here out of respect for the people posting here and our host. Even then I raged at someone once for what I thought was blatant stupidity and found myself guilty of hypocrisy in doing so.

          I’m flawed. I cuss, fight a predilection for chewing tobacco, have a flaring temper, am often unforgiving, prone to spot the mote in your eye but not the beam in mine, enjoy getting on the outside of a dram of scotch too much, etc. I’m sure God loves me but hHe must think I’m a hot mess.

          To make a short story long… no apology necessary though the effort is appreciated.

  22. Buckley Conservatism has done its job almost perfectly:

    They corralled the innate group interests of whites with rules, arguments, documents and acceptable sensibilities. They’ve effectively bridled our nature with BS for decades.

    They provided enough of a drag on the hydra-headed progressive monster to keep it from getting too out of control too early and forcing the awakening of a true opposition. They did this while still provoking the proggies toward their endless revolution.

    The inevitable has happened. Innate biology is forcing to the surface what the carrot and stick had kept burried for so long. Now that a real opposition is arising Con Inc no longer has to luxury of engaging in flimflam. They have a platform and money…and are being taken apart by boys with peach fuzz on their faces and a few bucks in their pockets. Their paymasters will probably cut them off after the next election.

    The Tech monopolies are the new gatekeepers. But Tech on their own are a more sophisticated Maginot Line. They will need the heavy hand of government to do more than just keep things out of the mainstream.

    There are some on our side of the divide who seem to believe that once Trump is gone our enemies will relax and give dissidents a little more breathing room? This is deluded. We will get a bit of calm, then the storm.

    This is not a political conflict it is a biological one. The politics involved are just a superficial manifestation of these innate forces. This conflict doesn’t go away and it doesn’t attenuate.

    • Blood, soul & soil > ideology, materialism & viewing your nation as a great hotel.

      We’re the ones who have to figure out how to translate the real First Things into the language of modernity. There is more depth on a second-tier Dis-Right podcast than flagship midwit shill-rags like First Things, NR or Human Descents.

      • Because we are limited in our access to open lines of communication things are moving slower than we’d like but they are moving in our direction. The increased volatility that will accompany the next election will drive people our way. As you’ve implied, having easily digestible and understandable explanations for these people is something we should be paying more attention to. A lot more.

        We’ve been so deeply embedded on our side of the divide for so long that developing normie-friendly introductions will become more and more difficult the more we put it off and remain insular. We should all make a serious effort to begin doing so. Everyone can bring something usable to the table.

        Make dissent restoration…of the natural order.

  23. First Things – for Last Men.

    Cucktholicism has proven a huge disappointment for me in the past 5 years or so of my ex-Prot converso. I came into the fold through hard-trad Rorate Caeli Catholicism and confess to a ludicrously romanticized view of St. John Paul II.

    One body-blow and head-shot after another has left my nascent Catholicism bleeding on the tiles.

    Every month, more butt-stuff from the Lavender Mafia. Every day, Francis washing some orc’s nether-parts and tossing the dirty bathwater on Church traditions, Whites and European culture. Catholic school alums & adjacents like Sandra Fluke, Butt-gigger and the noxious Father Martin gassing on about the gospel of monotheistic pansexuality.

    Christianity, you’ve got one more shot. If the Orthodox cathedrals of St. Petersberg don’t sprake me some Zarathustra, thusly, I’ma go pagan-gang.

    • Pack your bags and hit the road. They aren’t going to change. They will blow up the Vatican first. Other than the ancient texts and antiquities it would be no real loss.

      The real churches are now underground. I happened to find one purely on luck alone. Check out the small ones, for the larger ones are almost certainly pozzed.

    • Now you can have that inner monolog between Apollonian versus Dionysian. I trend more toward the Dionysian. I mean, why else have an advanced nervous system?

      • Apollonian versus Dionysian. Aristotle versus Plato. “The Light and the Cave”. Arthur Miller. Traces the influence of those two fellows throughout history. Good book.

    • The problem is that any organization is infiltratable, and the left, being the parasites they are, will infiltrate any and all organizations.

      For you and me, being non-sociopaths, it would seem strange to join some organization that we don’t believe in at all in order to work for decades to destroy it from the inside.

      But the left is the party of the sociopath, and that’s how they do. It’s another example of the thorny Principles Problem, inherent in modern politics, whereby the right is disadvantaged by their principles, while the left has no such restrictions.

      If I were a Christian (and I confess I’m not), it would just be me and my Bible.

    • Everything you wrote is true, Exile, but it’s not the Truth, i.e. the transcendental value. Every person you mentioned is a deeply flawed human; but you did not mention Jesus Christ, Who is the real point of the Catholic Thing and cannot be found amongst the pagans. I feel your pain. I am a cradle Catholic and a former monk; but the failed leadership of the Church today is as bad as Judas the Betrayer. Have faith and do not abandon Him. We are called at this moment to be Simon of Cyrene, forced to carry an unwanted cross. Be strong, brother.

    • I’m getting on board with the Orthodox too. I confess that I have very little experience with traditional Christianity as practiced prior to Protestantism. I’m probably going to be going without the wife because she insists that because Orthodox churches don’t “offer childcare” during the liturgy that they aren’t any good for us. She prefers the megachurch and the self-help lecture and concert as the main focus of going to church.

      • Bad Thinker: So bring your children with you. I’m not Orthodox, but the Episcopal church we attended for years had childcare – and our older son always preferred to stay with us for the Sunday service and Eucharist. At age 2-3 he loved watching the “parade” (the processional) and at age 5 he was asked to participate in it. He’s made numerous changes in his life and beliefs over the years (he’s moved toward RC historically), but the foundations of his Christian faith are solid.

      • Speaking of modern church music….egad. Where’s the spiritual feeling? Christian lyrics put to rock and roll is the path to nihilism.

        • There’s a place for modern music but the tone and quality has to be vastly elevated from what passes for “Christian Rock.” The worst part of that stuff is that 99% sounds so inauthentic. There’s literally no soul in it, just shallow cotton-candy on the same plane as coffee-shop folk singers.

          • Like Hank R. Hill said- they’re not making Christianity better, they’re making rock’n’roll worse…

    • You could start going to an SSPX church. I see the appeal of the Orthodox, though, as long as it can do better than the other churches at resisting consumerism and modernism.

  24. Schmitz – a Christian – spends a lot of time in the article worrying about Jews, anti-Semites and any questioning of the Holocaust. This is the CQ in a nutshell. The Christian church establishment believes that whites shouldn’t see themselves as whites (or Germans, English, French, etc.) while allowing (even celebrating) other groups that are tribal.

    “Our civilisational inheritance is spiritual, not racial,” Schmitz writes. The church demands that whites disarm in the face of tribal enemies. We need the belief and unity that religion provides, but the church establishment is against us – that’s the CQ to me.

    • Christianity has been reduced to the Jewish Junior Varsity.

      The kosher sandwich future:

      Prager, Kristol & Shapiro telling “fellow Whites” who we are and Tennessee Coates, Bari Weiss and Saira Rao telling us who we aren’t.

      • “Our civilisational inheritance is spiritual, not racial”

        As if the two were mutually exclusive…

        • Would any cuck dare say blacks or Asians or any other non-white ethnicity do not have a heritage peculiar to their ancestry?

        • But in the church’s eyes – or, at least, the church establishment’s eyes – they are.

          In essence, the church says that God doesn’t see color and, therefore, neither should you. You (or your ancestors) didn’t build this, God did. Etc. The church establishment has become the Left but with God. The Left hates white Christians, yet the church adopts the Left’s beliefs. The betrayal is stunning.

          • “In essence, the church says that God doesn’t see color and, therefore, neither should you. ”

            But of course, we really have no idea what God sees or doesn’t see, and we have no business putting words into His mouth. God says that all Christians are spiritually the same in the eyes of God, no matter what race or sex, that’s it. This does not mean that there are not differences between men and women, or peoples, and that we can’t take these differences into account in our everyday behavior. The fact that there “Is neither Male nor Female in Christ Jesus” does not imply unisex restrooms, and up until a few years ago, any Christian who thought that it did would have been considered insane.

        • Absolutely, Altitude, embodied race is immaterial Spirit given form.

          Creation has struggled for millions of years to bring our kind into this environment, yet we are but a slight step ahead. Life itself is tenuous, difficult, surmounting unimaginable setbacks.

          We are what is IN us.

      • The only thing more fun than libertarian bashing is deflating gatekeepers like Prager. If anyone on the dissident side knows of an acerbic critique online of this guy, please share it.

        • Maybe, but at least Prager and Shapiro are fighting for their people. They are perfectly consistent if you look at it from that angle.

          Christian churches that represent white parishioners are betraying their flock in God’s name. How can that be? How can God ask me to make no distinction between my extended family and another man’s extended family? The church is asking whites to commit genetic suicide. It’s impossible that the church was always like that or we or it would be long gone.

          • Of course they are betraying their flock, that is now their job. They wear the skin of Christianity, but they subvert it. Christianity was always strongest, and the most revered over the ages, when it stood up to all of this kind of thing. Collaboration with the powers-that-be has always eventually been seen as betrayal for the pieces of silver.

          • Praeger and Shapiro may be fighting for their people but they do it in the guise of being Our People. I understand it, they are a people used to the high stakes game and its consequences. It doesn’t mean it is something that should be forgotten or forgiven. There’s a reason captured spies aren’t afforded the civility captured soldiers in uniform are.

          • Penitent,

            Oh, I agree. I’m just saying I understand them, even if I find them to be cowards. They’re spies, fifth columnists and should be treated as such.

          • Citizen,

            I understood you and I understand them. I wasn’t implying anything, simply taking your statement to the next conclusion as I see it. I just want to make sure their names are added to the appropriate list at the end of the “glorious revolution” that Zman often jokes about. 😁

            We are good, Sir.

          • Penitent,

            They deserve what all spies deserve. No exchange deal with Israel for those two.

          • The Christian churches are unquestionably at the epicenter of the process of Latinizing North America and Islamizing Europe. In this sense the churches act like Soros funded NGOs. I don’t hear the churches comment on the resulting political, economic or social evils inflicted on host country populations nor the absence of gratitude displayed by ‘migrants’ for the myriad of benefits they receive. In this sense, I agree that the first world flock is currently being betrayed by Christian institutions.

    • Well, I’m not a Christian, but just as an analytical truism, you could say that, with respect to race, there are two types of Christian:

      (1) racial universalists
      (2) racialists

      The fact of the matter is that we’re going to have to throw everyone in the first group who can’t be converted to the second group out of our lifeboat. Even in their millions.

      Racial universalism, whether of the Christian type, or as embodied by the left’s nu-religion of Equalism, is a recipe for auto-genocide.

      They all gotta go.

      • True. But the church is asking you to betray your extended family in the name of God. That is very different from some Leftist asking your to betray your extended family in the name of being nice. For a Christian, the latter is your choice but the former isn’t, you must obey. The church’s betrayal of their parishioners is fundamentally different from Jews and Good whites trying to trick the rest of us.

        • Even deeply based Christians like the Godcast guys on TRS explicitly put their religion ahead of their kin, tribe, people & race. It’s a division at the root of belief that Jews and similar hijackers too easily exploit to mislead religion-first Christians.

          Our Thing needs faith traditions, Christian and otherwise, that are Whites-first from the ground up. For Christianity to work in our future communities we have to seal the doctrinal cracks that allowed Katie McHugh to tell herself “doxxing my years-long friends and associates is OK b/c paganism.”

        • But the church is asking you to betray your extended family in the name of God.

          But that’s dogmatic, isn’t it? It’s what Jesus admonished the apostles to do: the world is going to end shortly, so working to build a future for your family is futile. Lay down your hammers, your sickles and your fishing nets, leave your families to their own devices and help me save a shitton of foreigners from the fires of Hell!

          Modern, mainstream Christianity is basically about hugs and kisses for everyone, so no wonder churches are easily subverted by globalists.

          I’m reading Mistress Malkin’s new book about who finances illegal immigration, and there are more Christian churches and organizations in there than there are overtly Jewish ones.

          • Felix,

            All true, but the Church couldn’t have been this “we are the world” stupid from ~500 to 1965 or our peoples – and the Church as it was during that period – would have been long gone. Something changed. The Church got pozzed right along with the rest of whites.

            The Church wasn’t preaching about allowing in foreign hordes in the Middle Ages or even the 1700s. Turning them Christian, yes; letting them into your country, no. I didn’t grow up going to church so I don’t know squat about its teachings, but there’s something very troubling about its collapse in the face of Leftists. What kind of faith can’t stand up to some Jews and harpies.

            Our side needs the help of Christians, but we don’t need the Church. It’s yet another institution that betrayed us for a few sheckles and a pat on the head from people that hate them.

          • there’s something very troubling about its collapse in the face of Leftists.

            It’s not just about leftism. The Church fell, primarily, to the scientific revolution’s new philosophy, forcing religion into an epistemology relying on blind faith rather than a claim of divine knowledge and truths.

            Before the scientific revolution, there was no essential difference between natural philosophy and religion, they were competing attempts to explain the cosmos in a systematic way, based on first principles.

            When the scientific revolution was over, religion had been rendered obsolete by a superior cosmology; it was no longer a feasible way to explain the physical world, hence the turn to a purely spiritual Christianity, one that could coexist with science in a secular world and render unto Newton what belonged to him.

            So it’s not just a matter of standing up to Jews and harpies, it’s mainly about standing up to people who demand an empirically based explanation for irrational beliefs.

    • Exactly this. I’ve been getting downvoted around here for pointing out that the dissident right, including Christians, is going to have to face the fact that Christianity is a failed religion. The fact is that Christianity crumbled in the face of modernity. The faith is dying, and its adherents in the West are quite literally dying out. By the end of this century Europe will be part of the Muslim world and the US will be a secular version of Mexico Norte. All major Christian churches have embraced Universalism, and it will be their death knell.

      • Modernist, liberal Christianity has failed, and rightly so. But history is long, and there’s more to the Faith than churches. We’ll see.

        • This line of defense is the Christian analogue to the Communist’s defense that “nobody’s implemented Communism correctly” when confronted with the fact that all Communist societies fail.

          Look, if you find some personal salvation in Chrisianity, that’s great for you on a personal level. But it does not excuse you from taking a sober look at the role of Christianity in the modern world. Modern Christianity has become a detrimental force that is quite literally destroying the peoples who embrace it.

          • They say that because communism has never worked. Christianity has worked, and even worked as a defense against hordes invading Europe.

          • I see your point, Guest, but I’m thinking perhaps you may be painting with too broad a brush. Christianity covers a wide spectrum of beliefs and practices. My Christian church is bible based and mostly apolitical. I attend because of tradition, shared values and I like to be around good solid spiritual people. You make a fair point though. Many Christian churches have, sadly, been infiltrated by leftist ideology.

      • The future is unpredictable. Looking backwards, the predictions are the things you can throw out and say well at least that’s not going to happen

      • Asking people to give up their lifelong faith is a very tough filter to pass. I’d like to leave a door open for Christians who are willing to put their people first. I don’t think it takes an entire reboot. Pre-Scofield Bible Protestantism and pre-Vatican II Catholicism weren’t torn at the roots by universalism, Chosen theology, etc…

        On a long timeline, you’re right though. If Christianity doesn’t make these changes, it’s a net-negative faith for Us that’s going to die, because we’re the only ones strong enough to keep it alive – if we care to.

        • Exile,

          May I humbly offer, 1 Timothy 5:8.

          I know you are looking in this thread of a pragmatic use for Christianity for Our People.

          There it is. We take care of Ours. First. Christianity as an outreach or bridge to span the gap between other peoples is desirable but we care for those within the walls as our priority.

          • You can find whatever you are looking for in the Bible. In hindsight, I think the Catholics were correct in suppressing translations of the Bible. Why hand over this stuff to unstable sociopaths? Keep the information under wraps and keep the masses content and worry-free by throwing a little water on them whenever they get upset. Instead, we got Billy Sunday.

      • I wouldn’t/didn’t vote you down Guest, as your prognostication, following current trend lines, seems clear headed to me.

    • Even E. Michael Jones, who is “woke” on the JQ, insists that the Catholic faith>race. And any facts about what sort of individual behavior or group culture purportedly “Christian” Negroes and others create are out of bounds. I don’t larp about my belief in God, but neither do I deny that by modern standards (accepting everyone of every race as one’s “brother in Christ”) I have never fit the definition of a Christian. The question is whose definition is correct – the virtue signalers’ or those of us who consider personal salvation, rather than a version of ‘tikun olam,’ the true Christian virtue.

      • I’ve been commenting too much here, but one last comment on the “spiritual equality” business. I take the same position that I believe the Boers took back in the old Apartheid days – that all races had spiritual equality, just as individuals did, but just as spiritual equality does not imply actual physical and mental equality among individuals, neither does it imply racial uniformity, or mandate treating different groups of people the same. A person with an IQ of 80 might be your spiritual superior in the eyes of God, but that doesn’t mean that we put him in charge of a nuclear reactor. A 98 pound worman might be your spiritual equal, but that doesn’t mean that she should serve beside you in combat. Being equal in the eyes of God does not imply lack of differences, and it is not a sin to take those differences into account, at either the individual or group level, as long as this is done with humility and good intention, as all things should be. If there are any old Afrikaners out there who would like to correct me on this, I’d appreciate it, but I believe that this is was more or less the position. We do not know who stands high or low in God’s sight, and we should always recognize that the stone that the builders discarded might become the cornerstone, but this realization should not prevent us from recognizing reality as God created it.

        • Not a theologian, of course, but look at what Paul really wrote about different roles for men and women, etc, and see if this can be taken as any kind of endorsement of blanket “equality” in the modern sense – I say no.

        • Altitude Zero,

          Nicely summed up. I’ve met people of lesser physical or mental stature that I am quite sure are spiritual titans in the eyes of God. It doesn’t mean I want them landing my plane. In addition, God established the various tribes of this world for His reasons. We can love one another, seek mutual cooperation, extend mercy and charity, and to some small degree live alongside each other but to demand we all subvert ourselves and God’s will by forcing ourselves to mesh into one amorphous blob is unwise and unholy.

      • Another hate tweet:

        “If God created different types of Tiger, or allowed them to evolve differently, and loves them, why can’t we say God allowed different types of Human (race).”

    • You’ve hit on a core dilemma Christian believers currently face. If white western peoples indeed face persecution or worse; are they morally obliged to defend themselves by force if necessary; or are they morally obliged to turn the other cheek and accept discrimination, enslavement or annihilation?

      • Sheliak, an example:
        “Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord”

        If we accept that this was an edict by an actual king, a legal principle that reduced family vendettas and intratribal skirmish, we can accept that it did and does work– per scale.

        I don’t wish to eliminate or discard Christianity’s successes.
        I wish to scale it back to usable size.

        The human question and the cosmic question are different scale; to mix them is the supremacist boast of slavetrader bandits.

        In short, “our god is above yours-
        Yehuda ackbar!”

      • It’s only a dilemma for those very small sects of Christianity that are pacifist; almost all denominations of Christianity accept the idea of self-defense and just war, and have for a long time. Philosophical pacifism was considered a heresy in most Christian denominations right up until the Twentieth Century. Hell, even Leftist squish Christians think that the “oppressed” have a right to use violence to seek “justice” – that’s why the World Council of Churches back the (most decidedly non-pacifist) African National Congress.

    • Exactly. Tolerance is great, but i don’t see Jews/Muslims worrying about attacks on the Catholic Church or the Church of England. And if Judaism is so great, why do we need a Catholic Church? Just quit the priesthood and get a Yamaka.

  25. I notice that over the last week there has been a concerted effort led by this Twitter user to discredit Fuentes as essentially a Chinese asset due to his father purportedly having business interests in China. “Loki” is an ally of Bronze Age Pervert, and was able to summon his followers to dig further into Fuentes. It has been going on for 4-5 days now, without stop.

    I have to say that at this point I am about done with the internet, with social media, and all of these people. Nothing is left alone; it is all personal attacks and questioning of motives, even from people one might have considered a nominal ally. Is this a phenomenon of the younger generation, who cannot sit still with an argument/counter-argument for more than a few hours, and must — out of boredom or lack of content — invariably turn to personal attacks, because they have nothing substantive to say? And then declare that further discussion of ideas cannot be had with such types, because of X, Y, or Z (white nationalist, Chinese asset, Natzee, take your pick) reasons?

    Perhaps no succor or peace is possible in this online world. One must detach and live as if it is the 19th century again, a slower pace of life, where information arrives in a daily paper or in the mailbox, or in a radio show in the evening. Trying to maintain one’s wits in an environment where unrelenting corrosiveness and invective-laden acid attacks on one’s character is the norm seems designed to drive one insane, quite frankly. Some days I think I’m already there.

    Longing for a dilapidated old farmhouse in the middle of nowhere this morning, where I can put in 8 hours of labor and then have a quiet meal to myself with a fire in the other room, and no other sounds or media — permanently.

    • It’s why I’ve disengaged from Twitter – the bizarro personality cults, e-personalities e-peening. It’s Insty-thottery for political spergs.

      The only “following” I care to have on the Internet is a hundred or so dedicated, serious adults willing to network with others to share real-life strategies for building a better future for our people.

      There’s a Third Position outside of debates about obscurantist German mystics and Drudge-level gossip about who’s a Fed or who banged Loomer.

      Z sets a good example for staying above that fray without counter-signalling so hard that it draws the trolls & fanbois.

        • I’m all in for outright trolling, but it’s all the format is really good for.

          I used to tell myself that it forced me to write more concisely but I found I was reducing the underlying thoughts to 280 characters instead.

      • I don’t know squat about Fuentes, but this business of claiming that anyone you don’t like, no matter how obscure, is secretly the “asset” of a malign foreign power is really getting out of hand. Considering that at least three-fourths of the American Establishment is pretty openly working for China, Israel, Mexico, Ukraine, or the Saudis, it’s hilarious that anyone would waste money on a relative nobody like Fuentes. When you can buy “talent” like Hillary or Biden or Kissinger or Schiff, who needs Fuentes?

        • You’d think the Center-Right would mock and fight the Leftists calling everyone they dislike a “Putin cockholster” or a “Russian Asset” but no, they join in the game! Its like Zman says in the post, they’re just Conservative Inc. – the left-wing’s handy-helpers.

    • I don’t know if it helps, but the younger generations participating in the social media scrum are just playing dress-up. If you grew up on BBSs, Usenet, the early message boards of the nascent Internet, you have already exercised your inner troll. These kids are just the latest incarnation of the Eternal September, discovering the fun that can be had sniping at each other.

      It’s a bit disappointing the number of older people who actually take Twitter and whatnot seriously. A lot of them are just hoary versions of the freshmen discovering the wild west of the Internet for the first time, but too many of them should know better.

      It’s also concerning that officials also take Twitter and Facebook seriously. Seriously enough that you can lose your livelihood or freedom for hurty words.

      But, eventually we will reach the saturation point. It may seem that Twitter bans are real life, but I’m encouraged by the number of youngsters who clued in fast that none of this matters. About 10 years ago I was giving a talk at a high school on Web development. I asked the class how many of them had Facebook accounts, and they all raised their hands. Today, I suspect that number would be 1/3, or maybe 1/4. Maybe less. The Internet has returned to atomized little communities, even though the big silos get all the press.

      As Z points out often, the key to changing minds is small communities. You’ll never convince the world with a Facebook post, no matter how good. But you can bring the folks in your disc golf Discord server around to your ideas.

    • Yeah, the Kathy Zhu kerfuffle has about killed social media for me as well. If you make a life in that environment, you will be scorned and bullied. Zhu handled it badly, but what kind of person are you if your personal hero is criticized and then you go and pile on a 21-year-old with puerile racial “humor”? Twitter is full of these types. I admit that it’s fun and funny at times, but pornography might be more healthy; at least you’re abusing yourself.

      • Kathy Zhu
        Replying to
        Absolutely right!
        These incels are incredibly ignorant and racist. That’s why the Republican Party gets so much hate, because they stereotype us with the alt right.
        I support their right to free speech, but I cannot stand what they believe in.

        I do feel bad for her, honestly. She’s just a normiecon. And she “assimilated” as well as one might hope… and now she’s being town down anyways. This is why we need more than one party. One party for the Groypers, one party for the normiecons, and other parties for the left.

        • Splitting the right into two parties, one “alt,” one “normie,” just makes it even more unlikely that the left will ever be stopped via the two party system.

          Solidarity with both the “extreme” right and sympathetic elements that presently vote Dem would be the only way to go if you want to vote your way out.

          Is feeling bad for for poor Kathy worth sacrificing your hopes of the system being made to work someday?

          I personally see the electoral system as a rear-guard action at best, but for those who see hope in the system, it makes no sense to purity spiral on the groyper wing, much less to yearn for formal separation from them.

        • I’m in favor of a big-tent party for those who simply believe in four things: against neoliberalism and foreign intervention, and for traditionalism and some degree of identitarianism. WNs, Groypers, AmNats, and open-minded civnats can all agree on this.

    • Ayatollah,

      It’s a burden, isn’t it? The manly duty to face the world and look at it’s often horrible visage while at the same time trying to see its calm beauty.

      I struggle to find balance too. I can’t, for the sake of my family, choose to hide from it and yet I know it would be easier… at least for awhile… to retreat into bucolic ignorance.

      I have to remind myself that there is this tiny sphere of things I can effect encompassed in a giant sphere of knowledge. Focusing on that tiny sphere helps.

      There are some shining lights. If I hadn’t made myself Notice I would never have found the people here. I would have continued to think I was adrift from humanity in my observations. I wouldn’t begin preparing for a better way to live, one that will provide a more harmonious existence even of things don’t get spicy.

      This world isn’t supposed to be easy. We are living in the dying days of the benefits our ancestors accrued. We have been insulated and coddled and now the surplus grain has run out. Maybe its our lot to exist in a phase that is the story of 99 percent of the human saga: toil, uncertainty, want and violence. Okay. So carve out peace where you can, with the understanding that you can’t escape the ugliness and turmoil completely.

      Good luck. I hope we both get there. We will try anyway.

    • ” Is this a phenomenon of the younger generation, who cannot sit still with an argument/counter-argument for more than a few hours, and must — out of boredom or lack of content — invariably turn to personal attacks, because they have nothing substantive to say?”

      Rational arguments don’t build armies, leaders do. Debate is only useful among people who share fundamental values and/or care enough to consider them. Attacking a figure like Fuentes is tearing down a potential leader.

      “Longing for a dilapidated old farmhouse in the middle of nowhere this morning, where I can put in 8 hours of labor and then have a quiet meal to myself with a fire in the other room, and no other sounds or media — permanently”

      Ah yes, wishing it would “all go away” and they’ll “leave you alone” to live out your life as an individual. It sounds nice, but I don’t have to tell YOU its a fantasy! 💤🌙
      😊 Sweet Dream

      • Not everyone’s cut out for social media – there’s a place for the Entirely Unplugged in Our Thing.

        Twitter and other media can be useful to get a message out or to mock those signalling for the other side, but social media is not a dependable source of leadership in and of itself. When you recruit leaders from a celebrity-oriented talent pool, they need serious vetting and testing in a wider arena before you see who’s a real-life leader and who’s just an “e-personality.”

        Pods, vidya and other more substantial media are one of those tests. In-person skils and organizing are another. As examples, I see Mark Collett as having made that grade and James Alsup as a guy who’s up and coming. The ones who fall into in-fighting are the worst. Hopefully Nick avoids the “debate me” peacocks and stays focused on organizing. He’s a work in progress. I’ll rib the guy for bantz, but he’s Our Guy from what I see so far.

    • Hate tweets are how I get the news, but join Twitter? Are you kidding? I waste too much time even posting only here.

      For what it’s worth, I talk to live human beings maybe twenty minutes per week, if that.
      Hope you can understand, I don’t know how you all do it out there in the real world.

      I guarantee I’d go postal, be tomorrow’s headline, or hanging from a lampost if I had to deal with so many people.

  26. I am just gonna throw this out there. Caveats and weasel words: I dunno who this guy is, or who pulls his strings… but he sounds familiar. He is of The Hive. The cadence of their words and reasoning and posturing is that of a true believer. My family was exactly like him.

    You can’t talk to men like that. They aren’t necessarily evil, they’re just clueless. They accept different sources of info than we do, they often live insulated from the realities they refuse to acknowledge, and if you try to force them to see the awful world they advocate, they will respond with rage and hate. You are absolutely correct, Z. The last thing those guys want is an honest debate because their culpability in the worsening state of affairs will have to be faced and dealt with. This is why it gets so personal and nasty with them. They will tell themselves any lie, and they’ll fervently believe it so they don’t have to shoulder any guilt for what everyone knows is coming.

    You have two choices with people like that: separation, or fighting. I suppose some could submit to them and their world views and order… but that is not an option for me personally, it went out the window years ago.

    • My position exactly. And very well expressed. I’ve made so many enemies with Normies over the years (decades!), trying to red-pill them simply isn’t worth it. Many are old (like me) and simply want to get into their coffins in peace and quiet while enjoying what’s left of their worthless families. I pity them, really.

      • Yep.

        I think it’s the NRx guys that talk about ‘holiness spirals’ – and you can see it at work in the hives. I was very hurt and angry when I got run out of the hive but thought at least they could be left alone to go on with their lives, better now that we lived apart. But then they started turning on each other too. They were still fighting amongst themselves last I heard, and there were a few more banishments and ‘un-personings’ after I was exiled.

        If they don’t trigger a war first, they will bring the roof down on themselves.

      • Epaminondas, you make me weep.
        My best beloved, my dearest, oldest friend- *like this* for 55 years- is a committed, though moderate, Dionysian, and quite liberal.
        None in his family have made it past 65.

        I realised yesterday that I am selfish and cruel. No wonder he shuns the negative, seeking only to savor the delights our wondrous time offers. All this is transitory, we are blessed to be born now, and here.

        In penance, I’m sending him your quote re Apollonian vs Dionysian, below. Thank you, thank you for that!

      • Epami……good grief….you’ve been peaking through our window and described my Basic Husband. Love the guy….and I’m good at keeping his prickly fur kindly patted down. …he just wants to be left alone as peacefully as possible to wander off, get in his coffin in peace, and float off to the great hunting grounds in the sky. His own family is so Effed up one has to amour up and limit the time in contact to even be in their general vicinity.

        Let’s see: Sister in law rightie voting lefty culture, she gets pissed when anything except stupid girl stuff is talked about. Then she get pissed drunk. One daughter has been captured by CNN, is ferocious lefty and encouraged her daughter to go all tranny to a boy. She’s a big fever swamp to be around. The other daughter is a Seventh Day Adventist drunk. We don’t even see her.

        My teeny tiny family is no better. My daughter is Eeyore and frozen in place shrouded in her mantle of unhappiness refusing to see she is running out of time, wed to a man-child who can barely hold a job, can’t pay the phone bill every month, watches Ellen, cooking shows and car races, is blinkered up and absolutely does not want to see the great wheel of history turning. He’s hugely fat, and alcoholic and will have a blowout soon.

        They live among the vibrants in the Calif. delta and illegal everyone else and I fear may be wiped out in the great vibrant uprisings to seek revenge on whitie-whites.

        The Range thoughtfully crafts a good life avoiding minefields for myself.

        • Thanks, Range, that was honest and painful- but I assure you, families were pretty messed up in the 1930s too, I got that straight from the horse’s mouth: from the women who lived in those years.

          I’m a chickensh*t and a coward, since I raised or sheltered other men’s children.
          Not blessed with any of my own, I can’t honestly imagine today’s frights with half the young ones poisoned into autism, and the older ones traumatized into ruin.

          • Thanks, Alzae, nothing new under the sun. But this is now in history that I’m living, and the new action globalist commies have done a dandy job of destroying and deranging families, and my families are a mess…and it just plain Sucks!
            Maybe you dodged a bullet at this time in history by not having offspring.

          • My “What are you thankful for” last Thursday was about my boy, who’s just trotted off to Idaho Springs for a gap year as a ski bum:
            “I am thankful that we failed to fuck-up the son to the full extent available to us.”

    • “”….separation, or fighting…””” Going around like Germany did with Maginot Line. Those people like French generals, never have a plan B. When they build by their own opinion invincible fortress, those people never bother to think, “what if” . And when enemy is inside the walls, they are completely helpless. Like we see it now. Massive defamation campaign became unusable and nobody has no idea what to do with Trump or Fuentes or Putin or Orban or uprising in general.

      • What a sickening story – of course all the damned wamen at the event supported the tranny and denounced the Christian protesters as “intolerant.” God, I cannot stand women (with the exception of those here at Zman, of course, and a few other exceptions).

        • Damn! Me too 3g….for the most part, I am evolving a distaste for women. Not just the lefty brainless ones, am …sorry…. but bored with most women. Catty, competitive, or just brainless nattering. Women in a group sound like a loud flock of starlings. Why did we evolve such high loud voices that do not command respect. Even the boy cat will say to me, “You go with your bad self, Mom.” When Basic Husband tells him to Stop, Boy Cat says, “Crap…He means it.” Meh! You gals are great and too bad we aren’t geographically closer.

      • “You’re dressed like a whore in front of children. Are you teaching children to be whores?”

        I like his style

        • That was righteous anger, it’s clear and concise not sputtering and confused. That tranny had nothing to say to that because the preacher was right and everyone knows that. Those tranies know what they’re doing. They are corrupting children intentionally. They do not think what they’re doing is wholesome

      • “Oh spare us from the might and wrath of the holy tranny!”

        Girls, I admit, we were azzholes, the only place we took you before the 19th was for granted. You are right to seek address of your problems, and you can’t beat us up.

        But, judas priest, men, where is our sack?
        We let the girls cut it off, they didn’t realize our inner azzhole was there to protect them from far worse azzholery.

        I don’t blame them. It’s our job to make sturdy walls that allow them their sweet innocence.

    • Fighting is what you’re going to get.

      I’d like anybody to point out some historical examples of where separation has EVER worked.

      The South tried it – and look what happened.

      Look at the nature of these people. Why would you think they would leave you alone simply because you and all the people who share your mindset have moved to the Dakotas?

      This is why I keep calling out the whole ” we’ll make the interior of the country a new “red” country so we can just separate from the blue hive” a fools errand and actually pretty moronic.

      First there is the simple geographical strategic idiocy of it. What is being advocated is to create a new “country” – that is surrounded by it’s enemies. That’s just stupid. Whoever believes this is in any way a workable idea really needs to go study world history quite a bit more. Land locked countries are NOT powerful countries. They are subject to the whims and mercies of their enemies. In this particular case what is being advocated for is to literally let your enemies surround you. It’s just dumb.

      The next belief to attack – is that separation will EVER work. It didn’t work for the South in 1860. It didn’t work for the colonies before the Revolution. How well is the Catalan separation movement going in Spain? There’s copious examples of PEOPLES who tried separation. I can’t think of any that were successful except over a very long time frame.

      Maybe it’s time to stop engaging in fantasy – and start coming to grips with the reality that the only way out is thru the middle – and that is going to be with a fight.

  27. I read Schmidt’s article. He’s not even aware of how little effort he’s put into understanding the situation and I doubt he cares. To me it reads, “I don’t know anything and I don’t want to know anything, just give me my comfortable life and tell me I’m a good person “.

  28. It goes back 30 years. In 1989, Richard John Neuhaus, in the pay of the Neocons, tried to take over Chronicles. When he failed, he used Neocon cash to found First Things. Dutifully, in 2003 they defended the Neocons’ Iraq War, supposedly on “Catholic” just war premises, with Michael Novak and others even lecturing John Paul II on his opposition to the war.

    • Once the Right sold out on freedom of association and disparate impact, they really had no leg to stand on, domestically, and this is just as true of the Christian Right as it is the more secular right. The “Civil Rights Revolution” as implemented destroyed what was left of the American constitutional order, regardless of what benefits it may (or may not) have conferred on black people, and until that is admitted, the Right will remain hopelessly bogged down. It would of course be possible to say that the goals of the Civil Rights movement were noble, but were implemented in an unconstitutional and destructive manner, but the Civil Rights movement has come to be regarded as holy by Conservatism, Inc, 100 % right, (even though Buckley and Goldwater most assuredly did not see it that way), so any criticism of it is anathema. Fuentes’ real sin in the eyes of Con-Inc was not just making bad Holocaust jokes (which were all over the place back when I was in High School) , but of mentioning that having to drink out of a separate water fountain was not exactly The Killing Fields. In doing so, Fuentes has blasphemed against the two holiest icons of our era, and he will not be forgiven.

      • The “civil rights revolution” was nothing more than a series of wedge issues which made the leftist takeover of educational, corporate, and government institutions possible. We gave them a loaded weapon and they pulled the trigger.

      • By this sites standards I’m definitely a “normie” but freedom of association is the most abused right in the constitution. On one level the civil rights movement had a legitimate beef, if we’re paying taxes and serving in the wars, and legally considered citizens then we have a right to expect what every other citizen expects.

        That quickly morphed into just insane bullshit including the “soft quotas” of today (quotas are technically illegal but woe betide anyone who draws the wrath of the EEOC) and the functional prohibition of any right of association of which the left does not approve. Only churches stand really independent and the left is making all kinds of noises about that these days.

        • Hoyos: But the point was and is that the vast majority of Negroes were NOT paying taxes (they’ve always been recipients of various types of transfer payments furnished from Whites via the threat of violence – from them personally, or from the government on their behalf). They served in wars in a only a support capacity and even there they caused constant problems (read about the troubles they caused in Australia, their rapes then and continuing until today wherever they serve, particularly Japan, etc.). If citizenship is a mutual contract between citizens and government as well as amongst citizens themselves, then perhaps it’s long past time we questioned whether Negroes ever ought to have bee granted full citizenship rights. That forbidden question is what led to Lincoln and the northern capitalists destroying the south, and it’s at the root of the “rayciss” question that plagues us today. All men are NOT created equal, and anyone who denies that is just not playing with a full deck.

          • I take your point but what about the ones that are doing right? Especially at the time, when the black community was really solving a lot of its own problems or trying to (the old HBCs like Howard, Tuskegee, etc.) and there were real contributions made during the wars including combat. The answer can’t be “fuck you you’re black”. But hey I warned you I was a comparative normie.

        • Paying taxes and serving in wars most certainly gives you the rights of a citizen, which was the actual legit point that the Civil Rights people had; but that does not give you the right to associate with others against their will, which was a big part of what the CRR as implemented was all about. I agree that freedom of association can certainly be abused, but so can any freedom. Contrary to what Leftists think, that is not an excuse to take it away. If the only freedoms we have are those that cannot be abused, we’re not going to be left with much.

          • “Paying taxes and serving in wars most certainly gives you the rights of a citizen.”

            Would you agree then that all illegal aliens in the US should be considered citizens after they sneak into the US and pay some taxes?

            Would you also agree that tax paying illegal aliens should have voting rights once they are considered citizens by virtue of paying taxes?

            Sounds like a great way to take over a country. Send in 22 million illegal aliens


            have them pay some taxes, and then claim that they have citizenship rights and that they get to vote.

            In fact, I think Obama tried something along this line. DACA qualified “children” were recruited to join the military:


          • So-called conservatives are the loudest complainers when you start discussing removing tax streams from the grasp of the government.

            OH MY GOD – who will support the schools!!?, We won’t have any roads!!. We’ll be invaded by ISIS because we’ll have no army!!!.

            I’ve run into this again and again and again and again.

            Lefties will complain you want to kill poor people or that you’re racist.

            Either way – it’s plainly obvious that they’re kindred spirits. It’s like arguing with an addict about why you don’t want to give them $10.00.

            “You’re going to blow it on a lottery ticket – I’m not giving you $10”

            “No I’m not – I’m going to buy a six pack – gamblers are idiots”

          • Major qualitative difference, if you break into my house but pay for some groceries I’m still kicking your ass out. If I kidnap and force you to live on my property then we’re in a you break you it you bought it scenario.

          • Being a taxpayer to the Federal government and serving dutifully in it’s wars – whether they benefit the country or not – is NOT what this country was founded to be about.

            Many of the founders thought that the Federal government should be denied a standing army. If the nation was threatened – well then all able bodied men were supposed to be serving in the militia anyway – so a defense force could be brought up almost instantly (as the Swiss demonstrated during WW2).

            The federal government was originally denied the right to reap taxes from personal income – until the so-called progressives enabled communism in 1913.

            Maybe you should think a bit harder about the topic that keeps coming up on this site over and over again: namely – what is it exactly that conservatives have conserved?

            Because what you’re talking about is conserving the current leftist order.

          • I think you misunderstood I mean the right itself was abused, that it’s the one right in the Constitution everyone ignores. As assaulted as the second amendment is, even the most restrictive jurisdictions allow some private gun ownership. The right to free association is blown through like it doesn’t exist.

        • Quotas being “technically illegal” is one of the things that makes anti-discrimination laws subjective, and thus impossible for business owners to ever know with confidence whether they are in compliance, which is just how the left wants it.

          • I’ve gotten into arguments with people over their claim that “affirmative action” is not a quota. I ask one question: “How does the complainant make its case, and what does the legal remedy always include?”. The answer to both is a nose count – i.e. a quota.

        • My favorite bullshit phrase is “desperate impact”. It literally means “we make the rules to suit us”.

          • That would be “disparate impact”. The definition being: A policy that can be shown to have different (presumed worse) effects on the presumed minority, is presumed discriminatory and must be changed.

            It’s not an arbitrary standard, but yes the actual cause-and-effect is frequently, um, misstated.

      • AltitudeZero: Very well said. And “drinking out of a separate water fountain was not exactly The Killing Fields” is a classic. But to admit there can or ought to be separate anything is to admit the lies at the base of egalitarianism. When I was young and stupid, I used to like the JFK quote comparing Jefferson to Nobel prize winners (“I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered together at the White House, with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone”). Now, given the destruction Jefferson’s rhetoric has wrought (“created equal,” “wall of separation between church and state” etc.) I’ve come to despise both him and JFK.

        • I don’t despise them because they didn’t realize how the contemporary left would abuse those ideas. By “created equal” Jefferson was referring to “In the eyes of God”, and that “wall of separation” is not a law, it is his opinion.

          You do realize that if JFK were alive today he’d be a Democrat pariah or an independent. Hell, today’s Democrats would throw him out and call him a radical hater, “white supremacist on the wrong side of history”.

      • Kirk and his ilk (and Trump Jr. and Gavin Newsom’s ex-wife) deserve to challenged and rebuked, but Fuentes isn’t the one to do it. I never heard of the guy before the latest kerfuffle, and even now I’ve only heard his act in an excerpt played on a Radio Derb podcast, but that was enough. The stupidity of the assumptions in his “batches of cookies” formula (designed to debunk the 6M Holocaust number) was only surpassed by the stupidity of his evident inability to actually perform the simple multiplication problem he had set up. Do you really want someone who was a nitwit in high school and hasn’t progressed to be the one front-and-center championing your ideas?

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