Is It Good For The Americans?

When I was a kid, I sat and watched the 30 minute ad run by Lyndon LaRouche during the 1976 presidential election. I don’t remember much about it, but I seem to recall he accused just about everyone of being in a conspiracy of some sort. I also recall my mother laughing and calling him a nut. LaRouche was a crazy Marxist, but I see he has been retconned into a crazy right-winger and anti-Semite. His wiki page reads like it has been heavily edited by one of his followers.

Anyway, I bring this up because it is what comes to mind when I read these paranoid postings about how the Russians are coming to take us away.

I saw that on Sailer’s blog over the weekend, but it is hardly unique example of the genre. John Derbyshire pointed out that a segment of the ruling class has gone around the bend with regards to their paranoia over the Russians. Jennifer Rubin is a very nasty old woman to begin with, so her paranoid ramblings about Russia and Trump sound particularly vile and un-American. As soon as you hear people talking about dual loyalties like that, you can be sure their loyalties are not with you.

The upside to believing in conspiracies is the same as the belief in magic. There is no end to how you can use a conspiracy theory to explain things. Progressives are now telling one another that they did not actually lose the elections. No, it was Russian hacking. Somehow, Russian hackers made their candidate into a crook running a shakedown scheme from the State Department. They also tricked John Podesta into writing all those e-mails that proved to be so embarrassing.

The neo-cons have decided that their rejection by the American people has nothing to do with losing wars of choice and flooding the nation with hostile foreigners. No, “invite the world and invade the world” is a great policy. It’s those damned Russians and their schemes to re-patriot their Jewish emigres. You see, the Russians have teamed up with Trump to engineer a silent coup to seize control of the US government in the cause of restoring the Czar to the throne.

That is the worrisome thing about this tribal paranoia about the Russians. The one thing Jews should always try to avoid is elevating the idea of divided loyalties into the public discourse. The heart and soul of Western antisemitism is the claim that Jews are disloyal. They put the good of the tribe above all else and will sell out their country if it is good for the Jews. The fact that it is pretty much exclusively Jews ranting about the Russians and leading the opposition to Trump is not good for the Jews.

But, that does not seem to be sinking in with the neo-cons. This tweet from the increasingly deranged David Frum is a sad example.

Is there anything worse you can say about a president than he is a traitor? Critics of Obama used to say that his Muslim sympathies led him into foolish policy choices like the Iran deal. That’s not really the same thing, but his defenders were appalled by it nonetheless. Protestants used to make these arguments against Catholic politicians, claiming they would be taking orders from the Pope. At least the motivation there was spiritual.

Frum is saying that Trump and his team are actually foreign agents, on the payroll of a foreign government. That’s the only way to read what these people are claiming. They truly believe that Trump and his people are foreign agents, working with a hostile government against the interests of America. It is the one thing that can still get you hanged in this country, thus making it the worst possible crime. Accusing the next president of this is more than a little over the top.

Never mind the absurdity of the claim. Think about where that leads. What limits are there on what you can do to stop a traitor from harming the country? Obviously, you can say anything horrible about them you like, in an effort to damage them. Would Frum and his coreligionist be wrong to conspire to harm the Trump administration? Would they be wrong to cook up a plot to take the guy out before he could get into office? Maybe run a straw candidate in one state? Or something more?

It’s not hard to see how this gets out of hand. These unhinged anti-Trump people, by raising the divided loyalty topic, open the door to a lot of very bad thoughts. These sorts of claims have a way of washing back on the people who first raise them. That is the lesson of history. Team Trump looks like a grab bag of American types, that hardly fits the model of a conspiracy. The people leading the charge with this Russian conspiracy nonsense, on the other hand, have a lot in common.

That brings us back to LaRouche and his nutty followers. That should be the destiny of people like Frum, Rubin, Stevens and so on. Most Jews in America, probably 99%, think these conspiracy fantasies are nuts so they should go on the offensive. Marginalizing the anti-Trump loons is one thing that would clearly be good for the Jews and it would be good the country. Once you start down the road of divided loyalties, you end up with mob rule and the majority examining every minority for signs of disloyalty.

That would not be good for the Americans.

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Member
3 years ago

Most American Jews are leftists of the worst sort. If they turn the public against them, good. Same with the Neocons, the sooner they get chased out of the Republican Party the better.

Guest
Guest
3 years ago

As you have previously noted, Frum is a miserable wretch of a human being. It’s been particularly illuminating watching his fall from grace since the Bushes fired him. At least he’s at home with the lefties at the Atlantic.

I scrolled through his Twatter feed. This one may be even more indicative of the degree to which Frum has become delusional.

https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/807987621754454016

Ben H
Member
Reply to  Guest
3 years ago

He’s a mercenary, the Atlantic is run by American-born former Israeli soldier Jeffrey Goldberg (he was the guy the Obama people embarrassed I think earlier this year by leaking what an unthinking shill for their foreign policy he has been).

One tweet from Frum I remember was him pointing and sputtering at someone calling out race-war enabler Soros. Anti-semitic to call out a jew for his behavior. A bit more than decade ago he would have been laying into Soros for the latter’s anti-Israel stance, but look at him now. The really are their worst enemies.

Chiron
Chiron
Reply to  Ben H
3 years ago

“Atlantic is run by American-born former Israeli soldier Jeffrey Goldberg”

Exactly, smart Americans must notice that both the Liberal and Neocon media are run by the same “Tribe”.

Deplorable Black Man
Deplorable Black Man
Reply to  Guest
3 years ago

I have to admit that back in my technocratic, managerial-conservative loving days, I liked Frum a lot, along with guys like Reihan Salam and Douthat. But what opened my eyes to Frum’s douchebaggery was his slander of Andrew Breitbart the day after his death when he called him a racist. I just remembered thinking WTF?! Haven’t had much use for him since.

Member
Reply to  Deplorable Black Man
3 years ago

For me, Frum was the Jehwish version of Erick Erickson. He talked a good conservative game, but at the end of the day his true colors usually came out close to election time when he put his RINO-Fanboy suit on. I have no use for him.

LetsPlay
LetsPlay
Member
3 years ago

I don’t know about the Jewish factor here but I leave it to the 40% and holding base that continue to “believe” in Hillary regardless of any disclosure that would have a normal person shaking their head, that they will be the only likely ones to buy into this FAKE news. What I think is forgotten here is the self inflicted damage the MSM has done to themselves and they now continue to hack away at a wound of their own making. It ain’t pretty but then, letting the mentally ill run the asylum was never a wise thing to… Read more »

Member
3 years ago

Most American Jews are leftists of the worst sort. If they lose the trust of the American people, good. As for the neocons, the sooner they get thrown out of the Republican Party, the better.

It’s a shame I like Israel and feel that they’re heroes of Western Civilization, because I now would feel bad about deporting neocons and progressive leftist Jews to there.

alzaebo
alzaebo
Reply to  Taco_Town
3 years ago

Same here- Israel was won as a country more fairly than many, and has proven itself a worthy credit. Unlike the neighbors.

James LePore
Member
3 years ago

I don’t think Frum, Rubin et al believe what they’re saying. I believe they actually know it to be false. John Bolton called the Russian hacking conspiracy theory a false flag operation. It is. It’s fake news that the Cult hopes gains traction to undermine Trump. Soon there will be “rumblings” of impeachment. I pray that Trump keeps in mind that the Cult is a much greater danger to America than Putin.

james wilson
james wilson
Reply to  James LePore
3 years ago

Maybe so, but for people who lie it is usually only a question of time before they believe their own lies. Trump Derangement Syndrome may compact that process still more.

Nunnya Bidnez, jr
Nunnya Bidnez, jr
3 years ago

Trump a Soviet agent?? That’s the funniest, in a stupid way, thing I’ve read in a long time. Frum really has gone off the deep end if he beleives that. OTOH, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a Grand Alliance emerge between Trump, Putin, and Netanyahu; I wouldn’t be too surprised to see Assad become a puppet of that group. Trump knows that the past 50 years have been a policy disaster in the mid-east; he won’t be afraid of changing direction quickly and radically. When Assad ran Syria (well actually he still does run it) he kept a tight… Read more »

James LePore
Member
Reply to  Nunnya Bidnez, jr
3 years ago

A Trump-Putin-Netanyahu alliance is a pretty fascinating idea, way outside the Beltway box. It’s goal would have to be to stabilize the Mid East, meaning ISIS and Hezbollah would have to be eliminated and Iran told it will never have nuclear weapons. What Iran would want in return for agreeing to this, I don’t know, but it would be worth exploring.

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  James LePore
3 years ago

How about a deal with Boeing to buy $50 billion in jetliners?

bilejones
Member
Reply to  James LePore
3 years ago

The fastest way to stabilize the ME would be for the US to get out and stop subsidizing the Israeli thugs.

Iran, btw, does not have, and never had a nuclear weapons program. Read Gareth Porters “Manufactured Crisis”

James LePore
Member
Reply to  bilejones
3 years ago

You make your statement that Iran never had a nuclear weapons program as if it’s an indisputable fact. Really? No room for argument or disagreement? I’ve never heard of Porter but I saw in two minutes that he is a defender of the Khmer Rouge and a global warming enthusiast.

LetsPlay
LetsPlay
Member
Reply to  bilejones
3 years ago

Hey Jones. Please wipe your lower lip. Your bile is dripping a bit much. And Gareth Porter? Never heard of her.

james wilson
james wilson
Reply to  bilejones
3 years ago

I’m all for ending subsidies with Israel. But I don’t think the result will be anything remotely like you imagine.

Nunnya Bidnez, jr
Nunnya Bidnez, jr
3 years ago

Meanwhile, on the home front, Trump is bitching that Boeing is out of control pricewise regarding AirForceOne, and that Lockheed has out of control costs on the F-35. Both companies have long been part of the deep-state / crony-capitalist Military.Industrial.Complex. I guess both companies are gonna have big shake-ups coming.

Wilbur Hassenfus
Wilbur Hassenfus
Reply to  Nunnya Bidnez, jr
3 years ago

Option #2 is that threatened military-industrial-deep-state interests are capable of defending themselves effectively.

IMO Trump is not wise to make these people feel threatened before 1/20/2017.

LetsPlay
LetsPlay
Member
Reply to  Nunnya Bidnez, jr
3 years ago

You have to admire the balls on the man. What you see is what you get. He means what he says and everyone, and I mean everyone, knows that those two projects are plain corruption, robbery and stupidity. He aims to fix that. The problem is that no one has taken action to put some boundaries on these actors and make them accountable. The Deplorables don’t care what part of the Deep State (maybe the part the sun don’t shine on!) they are from but they work for us. I’m sure they don’t think so but it is time someone… Read more »

Solomon Honeypickle IV
Solomon Honeypickle IV
3 years ago

I already consider the Never Trumpers to be anti-american “cosmopolitists”!

Al from da Nort
Al from da Nort
3 years ago

The real danger of the situation is that, unlike the past when the Clintonoids’ targets for their blame deflection operations couldn’t fight back,* the Russians most certainly can and will. Could even be ‘wet ops’ like that guy in London that they went to the extra work of poisoning with Polonium just so there could be no doubt about who was behind it. Lets hope that if it ultimately goes that way the Russians will be as discriminating in their targeting. *Bill’s women victims, the White House travel section, Khaddefy, the so-called Benghazi film maker, etc. Putin cannot have missed… Read more »

Member
3 years ago

Well, gee, the head of Standard Oil and Henry Kissinger: Rockefeller/NWO minions to the max! Trump will likely be co-opted into the CFR/NWO crowd if he looks forward to older age. The more Trotskyite Jewish faction of the oligarchy probably confuses Mr T with the Cossacks, Putin is threatening because he is restoring the Russia that the Bolshies destroyed and Russians are not known for their philo-semitism in any case. I also suspect that he’s fully on board with the above-mentioned crowd, who are busily finishing off Europe as a challenger. I suspect that those who wish to keep America… Read more »

Drake
Drake
3 years ago

So the same people who:

– laughed out loud at Romney when he identified Russia as a primary threat…

and

– yawned and poo-pooed the story about Hillary making a deal that gave 20% of American uranium production to a Russian company in exchange for outlandish speaking fees and kick-backs…

..are now convinced the Russkies stole an election?

Brooklyn
Brooklyn
3 years ago

“John Derbyshire pointed out that a segment of the ruling class has gone around the bend with regards to their paranoia over the Russians.” Blaming the Russians kind of makes sense from the point of view of the Never Trump pundits; they don’t miss the Czar as much as they desperately miss the Soviet Union. The co-Dominion type world of the late 1970s and early 1980s is their field of expertise and everything they’ve done since 1989 has been trying to compensate for that missing ingredient. The problem most of these pundits have is that bubble living is making them… Read more »

Wilbur Hassenfus
Wilbur Hassenfus
3 years ago

I has this on my mind this morning: https://twitter.com/lbsasquatch/status/808313943848534016 Their world is turned upside down. Nothing is true, everything is permitted. They don’t know what to think when all reliable authorities about What to Think have been discredited, so they may as well think anything. And since they hurt and feel threatened, they think angry paranoid thoughts about hurting people. It’s cognitive musical chairs. Everything’s rolling around. They really have a feeling as if they’re suddenly in a state of nature. To a degree, obviously. And all the Rational Adults who went to Harvard have just been milling around in… Read more »

A.T. Tapman (Merica)
A.T. Tapman (Merica)
Member
3 years ago

You do not have to look too closely before noticing David Frum has an uncanny resemblance to the iconic “Happy Merchant.” His exterior reflects the corruption of his interior, and it is not happy.

Member
3 years ago

Just listened to another sore loser on TV, John Sununu from the Bush clan. He was concern trolling Trump and Tillerson on foreign affairs. He was also hinting at the dual loyalty issue. One of the reasons Russia chose XOM for their Arctic unconventional project is that XOM has a history of telling foreign governments to get get stuffed when they try to ratchet up the terms. They did this in Venezuela, Indonesia, and . . . . Russia! when all the other international oil companies caved. I think Putin may be a thug, but he recognizes strength. Tillerson is… Read more »

Chuckie
Chuckie
Reply to  Donzie
3 years ago

We’re always hearing things like you wrote, “I think Putin may be a thug…” What action of his leads you to think this? I really want to know. Is it because he brought the oligarchs under control before they completely destroyed Russia? Is it because he protects his country and people and refuses to be a vassal to the West? Russia tried to enter into alliance and business with the West but it is the West who turned away. I wonder if it’s more likely that our very total anti-Russia propaganda has sunk in to everyone’s minds, even those who… Read more »

LetsPlay
LetsPlay
Member
Reply to  Chuckie
3 years ago

You have a good point Chuckie. American propaganda has vestiges of the Cold War and WWII racism that considers Russians no better than Ghengis Khan or Hannibal. Complete barbarians. However, I think if you give Putin half a chance, and if the EU/NATO, etc. would stop poking the Bear, then people could get on with some good business deals. The ones to not be trusted are the Chinese who are quickly becoming desperate in their economic situation. They are resorting to a much heavier hand of “commradism” with the local population, aggression on the South China Sea, Hong Kong and… Read more »

Chuckie
Chuckie
Reply to  LetsPlay
3 years ago

Maybe I’m naive but I just don’t believe in the need to have a bogeyman. There’s no reason the U.S., Russia and China shouldn’t perform together, each in our own best ways, as the great triumvirate of the planet for the benefit and advancement of all to enjoy. I don’t see why we should distrust China. I don’t believe they’re desperate in their economic situation, I fear that may be more U.S. propaganda and projection on to China of our own money problems. As far as “heavier hand of ‘commradism’ with the local population,” well, the treatment of Chinese population… Read more »

LetsPlay
LetsPlay
Member
Reply to  Chuckie
3 years ago

Chuckie, while I am not an expert on Asian affairs by any means, I do follow Asian politics and happenings around the basin and it is not as you say. First off, China is a communist country and all that is implied in that. That is not just an American definition. Look at the history of communism/socialism/fascism, different shades of the same animal, and there is no uplifting of the masses as you refer to. There is only the gaining and consolidating of power by the few over the many. I have to say it, and I do mean it… Read more »

Karl Horst
Karl Horst
3 years ago

I think most Europeans don’t really understand why the Americans are so paranoid about the Russians. Especially since they have ever invaded North America in course of your own history. Yes I understand the Cuban missile crisis was a real event, but the closest the Russians ever came to occupation was at Fort Ross on the California coast in the mid 1800’s. And second, there are no industrial or economic threats by Russian against the USA or Europe in comparison to the industrial or economic threats from Communist China. To the point of fake news, I think your own media… Read more »

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Karl Horst
3 years ago

The Russian paranoia germinates from decades of the Russians infiltrating various American institutions to their own ends. Certain media outlets, some politicians, and various social agencies and enterprises have been co-opted by the Russians, or set up from the beginning as Russian front operations. Not Chinese, not Israeli, but Russian. To the extent Americans are paranoid, there is some basis for it. Walter Duranty cones to mind. The Rosenbergs. Students for a Democratic Society. It appears that Tailgunner Joe McCarthy was largely correct, but got played by the system.

Karl Horst
Karl Horst
Reply to  Dutch
3 years ago

@ Dutch. I understand your point. But back then it was their political ideas that were being infiltrated into America, not a Russian way of life. I think most of the concerns were about nuclear strikes, not invasion and occupation. But you are right, that was at a time when Russia was promoting Communism and it was being spread everywhere. Now however, one could argue “What’s so bad about Communism” – considering how well the Chinese manage to use it to their advance over the past 20-years. Mean while democratic western economies these days have a hard time convincing people… Read more »

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Karl Horst
3 years ago

Eisenhower was a wise man, and he had seen a lot from the inside. Americans after WWII hoped for a real change in global politics and society, after having seen how things went down in Europe twice and Asia once. IMO there was real bipartisan support for the UN. The Russians grabbing the know how to build an atom bomb, followed by the Korean War and then the Berlin Wall, suggested they things were no better than before, just layered with the threat of nuclear annihilation. Lots of dusappointment there. Americans are very proud of their culture and their political… Read more »

Member
Reply to  Dutch
3 years ago

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that those Russians doing the infiltration in the old days were die-hard Communists leftists, who were also members of the same ethnic group that was the subject of this article. (e.g. The Rosenbergs.) I don’t get the sense that there were many Russians of Christian heritage subverting our way of life in those days. I had no trouble being against the Soviet Union when they were communists. I have a huge problem these days considering Russia, a fellow Christian Nation, to be my enemy. I think that is what… Read more »

Karl Horst
Karl Horst
Reply to  TempoNick
3 years ago

@ TempNick – The Russians are having their own issues with Muslims, they just don’t publish much about it. But if you talk to the average Muscovite on the street, you’ll get the real story. It’s a serious problem and Putin, whether or not he is a Christian, is a hard line cultural Russian. Anything that threatens the cultural or ethnic core of Russia he will see as a threat. Fortunately, Russians are a rather brutal people, so things there tend to sort themselves out one way or another. Not like the Sweedes and Germans who bend over backwards to… Read more »

Member
Reply to  Karl Horst
3 years ago

It’s a serious problem and Putin, whether or not he is a Christian, is a hard line cultural Russian. My parents come from a Slavic Orthodox country so I think I have a feeling for exactly the type that Putin is. Putin’s father was officially an atheist, but who knows whether he was just saying that to protect his job or whether he was just being a typical, obstinate, macho Russian. But, his mother was religious and he was baptised at a child. That tells me he does have something in his heart regarding faith, even if he isn’t a… Read more »

teapartydoc
Member
Reply to  TempoNick
3 years ago

Back when the USSR was falling apart a family friend who had been working in the intelligence community showed my Dad a picture of a guy who was then a high ranking KGB agent who was having one of his children baptized in the Orthodox Church. It was Putin.

Anonymous Bro
Anonymous Bro
Reply to  Dutch
3 years ago

Russians were the worst victims of communism. You have to look at who started communism and ran the scheme in the beginning. They were majority non-Russian.

alzaebo
alzaebo
Reply to  Anonymous Bro
3 years ago

Yes- a tribal dictatorship that created the big lie to cover up their subsequent genocides of the livestock, including postwar genocide of innocent Germans.

Please see Mr. LePore’s comment above about believing one’s own lies.
Of course; how could one know their own are lying? Now all join in a human shield, thats the point of the lie.

Hint: it wasn’t atheism that killed 100 million people in the 20th century.

alzaebo
alzaebo
Reply to  alzaebo
3 years ago

Further hint: none of Mao’s inner council were comrades from the long march. They were not Chinese. The Han threw Mao out twice, Moscow troops brought him back. Further- none of Brooklyn’s Red Diaper babies were Chinese either. Neither was Chicago’s Saul Alinsky. So what were they loyal to? Not Slavs, or Ukrainian or German patriots either- wrong tribe. This isn’t some fake outbranch, or even a conspiracy. It’s the belief held that enabled the terrible survivors of the Fall of the Edeen to survive as slaveraiders. Fast (traumatic) evolution taught the value of camoflauge. Ever since Abraham the Lucifer… Read more »

alzaebo
alzaebo
Reply to  alzaebo
3 years ago

“Lucifer” was a title, the office of the chamberlain, the Lord Ham’s most trusted advisor. Just as the Host were the Lord Hammurabi’s personal bodyguard.
Per Isaac Asimov.

There are no deities, magic, or miracles in the Bible. It’s a political encyclopedia.

Al from da Nort
Al from da Nort
Reply to  Karl Horst
3 years ago

Karl; While I can agree with your current general threat assessment for the West, I can’t believe I’m hearing you say that there is a “lack of Russia’s history of invasion and conquering neighbor countries.” For the last 1,200 years, invasion and conquest of neighboring countries has been THE constant feature of Russian history. It’s how the Grand Duchy of Moscow went from being a minor Tarter tributary to a vast empire controlling 12+ time zones. Of course, episodes of expansion were punctuated with episodes of defeat and retreat plus episodes of quiet, largely due to internal problems of various… Read more »

Karl Horst
Karl Horst
Reply to  Al from da Nort
3 years ago

@ Al from da Nort – Fair point. But one could argue the same for the Netherland, Sweden, France and pretty much every European country during those periods – lots of border wars and of course those annoying French were constantly rolling across our lands and hiring Prussian mercenaries and making a nuisance of themselves. We put and end to that nonsense in 1871! The last real acquisition of European land transfer was when we reunified East Germany. Unfortunately I don’t foresee us getting the Alsace back anytime soon. Once things settle down in Ukraine, I think the days of… Read more »

Karl Horst
Karl Horst
Reply to  Karl Horst
3 years ago

@ Al from da Nort – The thing to watch with regards to Russia are twofold – the size and capability of their military, combined with the effective means to project force. Right now, they’re no where near what the US can do. And unless they suddenly pick up their industrial and economic base, they simply can’t afford another arms race. A demonstration of the Su-35 at the Paris air show does not an Air Force make. The days of bread lines and shortages are not something today’s modern Russians are going to tolerate just so Putin can rattle his… Read more »

Anonymous Bro
Anonymous Bro
Reply to  Al from da Nort
3 years ago

As Karl has mentioned previously, Europe is facing far graver dangers than an expansionist Russia (I grant you that bit). In fact, all of Europe as a Russian vassal is a far better fate than what awaits Europeans under muliticulturalism and Islam.

Karl Horst
Karl Horst
Reply to  Anonymous Bro
3 years ago

True. But the Russians are horrible alcoholics and have you seen their dash cam videos? Decisions, decisions…

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Karl Horst
3 years ago

I have this mental picture of the Russian dash cams on the Nurburgring…

Chuckie
Chuckie
Reply to  Anonymous Bro
3 years ago

Europe is a U.S. vassal and they’re being destroyed before our eyes. God willing, Trump will shut down the powers that be running the U.S. but as we see, in Syria for example, they don’t give up even if hundreds of thousands of people have died. Horrifying criminal behavior in a dangerous time.

teapartydoc
Member
Reply to  Al from da Nort
3 years ago

I have no problem with Russia controlling the Bosporus.

Chuckie
Chuckie
Reply to  Al from da Nort
3 years ago

Al,
What are your thoughts of the U.S. regime change (i.e. coup d’etat) policy as witnessed in Ukraine, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Honduras, various other countries in Africa. All within the last few years. And we’re supposed to fear Russia? The U.S. is the lawless aggressor of the planet in recent decades and our govt/media are constantly projecting our misbehavior onto Russia, grotesquely.

Al from da Nort
Al from da Nort
Reply to  Chuckie
3 years ago

Chuckie; With the possible exception of Ukraine, what you say about interfering in foreign lands is arguably true. Apparently the Cloud People are ignorant of the fact that since the Bronze Age, out-of-power foreign elite have been hanging out in the capital of major powers trying to use that major power to get themselves installed or re-installed as rulers in their own lands. The Cloud have let themselves be so used in quite a number of cases where no discernible US interest was involved. The Haiti intervention during the reign of Clinton I is a very clear example. Part of… Read more »

Chuckie
Chuckie
Reply to  Al from da Nort
3 years ago

Thanks for your complicated reply, Al. It reminds me of a T-shirt that had a moment of popularity in the 70’s: “If you can’t dazzle ’em with Diamonds, Baffle ’em with Bullshit!” Speak plainly, man, I’m a simple person. You seem perplexed by the meaning of my post. You could say I believe in living by the Golden Rule: Treat others how you would want to be treated. If Russia sent people from NGO’s to our part of the world and destabilized the governments surrounding our nation and turned the minds of those nations’ peoples to an anti-U.S. mindset and… Read more »

curri
curri
Reply to  Karl Horst
3 years ago

“I think most Europeans don’t really understand why the Americans are so paranoid about the Russians. ”

It’s really just a handful of tribalists who are influential in the media and major “think tanks.” But one can only say this anonymously (with a few exceptions) and on the internet.

Karl Horst
Karl Horst
Reply to  curri
3 years ago

@ Curri – Ah, anonymous expression. Another curse of this millennium! The Dutch courts had their time in the sun with Geert Wilder’s non-PC comments. You may have heard he was convicted of inciting discrimination and “insulting a group” after a trial over statements he made about Moroccans. Fortunately the court did not find him guilty of incitement to hatred (hate crime) and did not hand down any punishment. Despite all the “oppression of expression” talk, it’s a simple fact that of you can say what you want over here, but just be ready for a libel suit if it… Read more »

teapartydoc
Member
Reply to  Karl Horst
3 years ago

In this country libel depends on intention to cause material harm and proof of material harm having occurred. Different than Europe. There you can be convicted on the word of the supposed victim. That’s why Americans fight extradition to Europe in questions like this, and why Europeans never sue for libel in American courts. It is also why Gawker got away with so much for so long. Jill Hogan’s case depended on him being able to show both intent to harm as well as damages.

Karl Horst
Karl Horst
Reply to  teapartydoc
3 years ago

@ teapartydoc – Your description would support the idea that Americans value money over honor. Not a criticism, really – we’re not much better in many regards. It would seem Khrushchev wasn’t too far off – “Support by United States rulers is rather in the nature of the support that the rope gives to a hanged man.”

teapartydoc
Member
Reply to  Karl Horst
3 years ago

It boils down to “sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never harm me”.
The case determining this involved a lawyer named Hamilton defending a man who was being harassed through the courts. He made the case and got his client acquitted, making the precedent and changing the law.

MSO
MSO
Reply to  Karl Horst
3 years ago

‘…Americans value money over honor…’

Not really. We have some old an old sayings: ‘Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me.’ and It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.’

Anonymous Bro
Anonymous Bro
Reply to  Karl Horst
3 years ago

Fully agreed. I never realized the bit about the military industrial complex. Of course they have to look for beasts to slay, and desperate brown people are not good wall trophies, or very profitable.

Karl Horst
Karl Horst
Reply to  Anonymous Bro
3 years ago

“Desperate brown people are not very profitable” Now I understand why Democrats are so deeply resentful of Republicans. Mr. Lincoln brought an end to a very profitable US business. It would seem the Democrats are not a group to forgive and forget so easily.

el_baboso
Member
3 years ago

Just throwing stuff at the walls to see if it will stick: Maybe there is a larger force at work here. Maybe we are seeing all of these pre-modern behaviors emerge (scapegoating, true believerism, cultic religion, and all the rest) because the differential between what people see and what they understand has reached pre-modern levels. Around 1910, it was still possible for a college grad to understand the physics and chemistry that made the steam economy work. Despite the huge increase in the raw number of college grads, how many can explain how an internal combustion engine works? I’d hazard… Read more »

alzaebo
alzaebo
Reply to  el_baboso
3 years ago

Nice. Don’t forget the change in physical environment! What works in todays cities ain’t the same as Grandpa’s farm.

Dr. Mabuse
Reply to  el_baboso
3 years ago

It’s not just Hillary’s server; the term “hacking” itself has taken on magical characteristics. Now, almost the first defense of anyone who’s been caught with distasteful material on their social media account is “Somebody hacked my computer.” Who? How? No idea. It’s just a new way of saying someone put a curse on me.

Christopher S. Johns
Christopher S. Johns
3 years ago

Before this election cycle, I considered myself mildly philosemitic. When I thought of Jews at all, which wasn’t often, it was usually positively.

All that has changed: the unhinged hatred gleefully exhibited by so-called “conservative” Jews against average white Americans has been eye-opening.

Trust Jews? Never again.

notsothoreau
notsothoreau
3 years ago

That’s okay. I witnessed people becoming hysterical because Trump wasn’t getting daily briefings. Never mind that Obama doesn’t. Never mind that Trump isn’t in office yet. The electoral college needs to overturn the election because this proves Trump isn’t serious.

random observer
random observer
Reply to  notsothoreau
3 years ago

Just heard that one in my office this morning from the resident pair of Trump panickers [I’m in Canada, so all my coworkers are trumpophobes and I admit I have some concerns about his apparent style, work habits, and mannerisms, but I revel in the pain of my colleagues, so there’s that…]. He’s not getting a package of heavily digested classified infobits every single day like President Jed Bartlet! He’s not micromanaging the comms staff’s organic lunch order while citing passages from St Thomas Aquinas! Horrors! [Actually, if he was citing Aquinas that would be a modest improvement, but he’d… Read more »

james wilson
james wilson
Reply to  random observer
3 years ago

Work habits? Inform your Commnadian Comrads that his inner circle have no idea when their 70 year old boss sleeps.

Member
Reply to  james wilson
3 years ago

That man is a workaholic. Primarily, because he loves what he is doing. We’ll see if he loves being president as much as he loves collecting rent.

notsothoreau
notsothoreau
Reply to  TempoNick
3 years ago

That was the one thing I took away from the Chris Wallace interview. He tried to talk to Trump about the Apprentice. He told him “I don’t have anything to do with that anymore.” Trump also said, ” I don’t care about making a deal. This is too important.” And when Wallace asked him if he’d be lonely while Barron and Melania are still at Trump Tower, he said “no, I’ll be too busy to be lonely.” He is completely focused on this job and none of the old things matter. His kids can handle the business. He’s all in… Read more »

LetsPlay
LetsPlay
Member
Reply to  TempoNick
3 years ago

“That man is a workaholic.” I know. Great isn’t it? After eight years of Obozo, golf, EO’s, and vacations, it’s nice to see someone who knows what they want to do and get busy gittin her done! Puts ‘ol Barry to shame!

SamlAdams
SamlAdams
Reply to  random observer
3 years ago

Were I them I’d be a bit more worried about having a lightweight PM who thinks the Castros and Che were really good guys and was raised by a mother whose primary claim to fame was going out clubbing and showing her cooter to everyone….

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  SamlAdams
3 years ago

Like they say, it’s good to know where you came from. In this case, there are photos…

Maxi Dean
Maxi Dean
Reply to  SamlAdams
3 years ago

“lightweight”
You’re too kind!

https://youtu.be/FRqHt5d9HDc

james wilson
james wilson
3 years ago

There is nothing that should cheer right wingers more than the epic fear and panic which we are witnessing, especially from the neocon. The neocons were the A team of the Democrats gone over to tame the unquiet minds of conservatives, and they succeeded. This is the worst possible disaster for them. Poor VDH, in Gerard’s video, said after fifteen years at NR he was suddenly shocked at what they were writing, as if he didn’t know these people. Normals never suspect what things calculating people are up to, because they are normal. It may be that the only type… Read more »

james wilson
james wilson
3 years ago

My Google home page has three suggested stories every day. Two, if not all three, are the dangers of Trump. That’s just google. Aldous Huxley, call home. I could not imagine how a man or a movement could counter the remarkable control Progs have over the Narrative. Trump knew. He’s the Horse Whisperer even when he’s shouting, flicking the snake to keep the horse aware of who is Alpha, trotting through Trump’s circle and hoping he will stop. I recently saw Pence take down Stephanopoulos. That would never have happened without the Big Dog running the circus. It may be… Read more »

Member
Reply to  james wilson
3 years ago

Yeah, they would have been ganging up on the Republican who dared to fight back as being uncivil. Trump has liberated many in the Republican Party to fight back.

LetsPlay
LetsPlay
Member
Reply to  TempoNick
3 years ago

I like Trump’s leadership style. He seems to have tweaked the saying “Lead – Follow – or Get Out of the Way” to “Lead – Follow – or if you are not sure, watch and learn, then join.” While the MSM and their fake news paints him as a divisive figure, he is busy building a strong foundation for the future. It is the American Way.

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  james wilson
3 years ago

Trump seems to have unleashed something that is much bigger than him. Big changes in historical directions often work that way. Genies, once released, can be very tough to get back into the bottles.

Member
3 years ago

That Derbyshire article is a great read. I highly recommend it.

My problem with the Jews is that they are leftists and they promote leftist causes. Also, a not insignificant chunk of them are also anti-christian bigots. And those leftist causes and anti-Chistian bigotr house destroyed many lives and have destroyed the fabric of our society.

Member
3 years ago

That Derbyshire article is a great read. I highly recommend it.

My problem with the Jehws is that they are leftists and they promote leftist causes. Also, a not insignificant chunk of them are anti-Christian bigots. And those leftist causes and anti-Chistian bigotry has destroyed many lives and has destroyed the fabric of our society.

I would surmise that historically a lot of others have had the same problems with them.

DFCtomm
Member
3 years ago

“As soon as you hear people talking about dual loyalties like that, you can be sure their loyalties are not with you”

First the left finally discovers the Red Menace, and now they’ve discovered the dangers of dual loyalties? Is this bizarro backward world? Next thing the left is going to do is start to talk up border security, and then my head will explode.

DriesN
DriesN
3 years ago

Caroline Glick wrote a must-read article about bitter reprobates like Frum, Stephens and Rubin. http://carolineglick.com/twilight-of-american-jewry/

Tim
Tim
Member
Reply to  DriesN
3 years ago

Glick is an excellent commentator and analyst, very tough minded. Tim

DriesN
DriesN
Reply to  Tim
3 years ago

Glick is not holding back – “Led most prominently by the Anti-Defamation League and its executive director Jonathan Greenblatt, in the wake of the election, American Jews are at the forefront of efforts to delegitimize Trump and his senior advisors.” . http://carolineglick.com/the-adls-new-bedfellows/

Rod1963
Rod1963
3 years ago

What worries me is the way the MSM including Fox News is running with this. The fact that the Senate GOP is now demanding investigations and blaming Russia is just crazy.

It seems they want to delegitimize Trump and demonize Russia.

I know FoxNews and the GOPe both don’t like Trump and the latter has no qualms about declaring war against Russia for a series of events they oppose – Syria, retaking the Crimea, etc. Heck even Fox News a few months prior to the election was busy portraying Putin in the category as Saddam and Hitler.

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Rod1963
3 years ago

All of the existing institutions feeding from the Washington trough are at risk. There is nothing like the potential loss of a fat and easy paycheck to motivate people to say anything, and do anything, to keep that paycheck coming in.

SamlAdams
SamlAdams
Reply to  Dutch
3 years ago

Or in the words of Vito the Killer Pimp in “Risky Business”…”Joel, don’t ever, ever f*ck with another man’s livelihood”

Member
3 years ago

“a segment of the ruling class has gone around the bend with regards to their paranoia over the Russians” Lifeguards are trained to approach drowning swimmers in a certain way because the thrashing and desperation kick in, and they’ll grab anyone, and anything, to keep themselves from drowning. That’s what we’re seeing in the media and in the Official Government Party right now. Having failed to keep Trump “below 1,237 delegates, and having failed to drive a contested convention, and having failed to get delegates to “vote their conscience” and having failed in their attempt to throw the election to… Read more »

Wayne Parker
Wayne Parker
3 years ago

My two cents’ worth: I wonder if Senator McConnell and other GOP leaders are playing along with this farce to really let the Clintons and DNC hoist themselves on their own petard. If the USG/Intel Community has solid evidence the Russian government or persons affiliated with the Russian government hacked e-mails and influenced the US presidential election, then any investigation must closely examine the contents of any and all hacked emails and any other communications that might have been exposed to these hackers’ efforts. In short, we’re looking at the reopening of the whole Clinton e-mail scandal investigation that Comey… Read more »

james wilson
james wilson
Reply to  Wayne Parker
3 years ago

Don’t think so. McCain, Graham, McConnell, Schumer, axis of Boll Weevils. McConnell is the weak link there–he already was scared straight on Nov 8–but the Donald may have to grab him by the pussy to break up that warren.

notsothoreau
notsothoreau
Reply to  james wilson
3 years ago

McConnell’s wife is joining the administration.

LetsPlay
LetsPlay
Member
Reply to  notsothoreau
3 years ago

“Keep your enemies close.” Or their loved ones.

Yankee Girl
Yankee Girl
Reply to  Wayne Parker
3 years ago

I think you have a point. McConnell may be sharpening his political blade as that’s all he really has left, whether the winner was Hillary or Trump. He’ll be in control of this process and will want to look good for the home team, AKA Washington DC. Trump will have to work with him and the two of them may write a new chapter to the Art of the Deal.

Member
3 years ago

The Left acts tough only when they know they’ll never have to put their money where their mouth is. If Russia ever becomes a real threat to us, which is very unlikely, Frum and his buddies will be the first ones to start groveling. Right now Putin as a fake bogeyman is a way to hurt Trump. If he ever becomes a real bogeyman they will shit tthemselves. They think the American people are too stupid to see through this, but they’re wrong. We’ve woken up.

Chuckie
Chuckie
Reply to  James LePore
3 years ago

Looking at people on the Left, I think that too… then I remember it was the Left that dragged us into both World Wars. They’re certainly tight with the war industry, I mean just look at Obama/Hillary’s track record! War industry is chomping at the bit for a world war. Hope they can be held at bay.

Karl Hungus
Karl Hungus
3 years ago

Kristoll stepping down from Weekly Standard. Guess Daddy Warbucks needs a new pimp now…

Brooklyn
Brooklyn
3 years ago

ZMan – FYI, wrote out a longer post earlier in the day that said “awaiting moderation” Basic point though I wanted to make though is that while its fun for Steve Sailer to troll his secret liberal Jewish political and journalist readership by wondering if all the anti-Russian hate is fear of the Czar rising from the grave, the whole Russian angle is more a sign of intellectual exhaustion. The “Its the Russians!” pundit class really miss the Soviet Union and the clarity that a co-dominion world gave them back in the 1970s and 80s. Everything they’ve done since 1991… Read more »

SamlAdams
SamlAdams
Reply to  Brooklyn
3 years ago

That was the point of Mearsheimer’s piece in the Atlantic, way back in 1990 “Why We’ll Soon Miss the Cold War”. Multi-polar is complicated and hard. Bi-polar is intellectually easy. That article and another “The Roots of Muslim Rage” written about the same time were two of the most prescient monographs ever.

UKer
UKer
3 years ago

I love that Trump is a Russian agent. God, they re so clever these Reds… First of all they got Trump to get really good at business (mostly at a time when Moscow was full of Communists and didn’t care about capitalism) and build up a fortune and then they told him to run for president, which he won.

Of course the flaw in this is obvious: if the Russkis really got Trump to be rich and successful, why can’t they do that for themselves?

SamlAdams
SamlAdams
3 years ago

I just wish some of these halfwits would just treat themselves to a few base level courses in Russian history. It would be enlightening. Or as a quickie alternative, grab a copy of George Friedman’s “Flashpoints” and actually read it. The Russkies have always been an amoral and nasty bunch. But they are highly predictable whether in the Imperial, Communist or Kleptocratic species variants. They have a very particular set of interests and will defend them at any cost.