Is the Pope Catholic?

There’s been a lot of commentary about Pope Francis being a commie, mostly from Official Conservatism, which now holds a puerile understanding of both communism and capitalism. Evangelii Gaudium (The Joy of the Gospel), is a 2013 apostolic exhortation by Pope Francis that criticizes neoliberal global capitalism, among other topics. American “conservatives” took this mild critique to mean the Pope opposes the new religion of Globalism, so he must be a Marxist, because Marxists are bad.

The thing is, Catholicism has always been opposed, to some degree, to capitalism, particularly certain aspects of what we now call capitalism. The most obvious example is the opposition to usury. Every lecture on the evils of antisemitism contains some reference to the Church forbidding usury. Less well known is the Catholic Church’s embrace of localist economics and politics, in opposition to the internationalism of Soviet communism. The point being, the Church has never been a fan of global capitalism.

The criticism of the Pope on economic grounds says more about the bottomless ignorance of modern conservatism than it does the Pope or the Church. For the Church, any church for that matter, economics are downstream from theology. In fact, economic positions should only matter in so far as how they advance the particular theological points of the faith. Catholicism long attachment to the sovereign authority of the people, naturally leads it to embrace national economics over global economics.

That bit is sure to get some spergy responses from Catholics and Christians, but we’ll deal with that in the comments. The point to take away is that it is perfectly plausible for the Pope to be within Catholic doctrine and oppose the current fads in global economics and not be a communist. The fact that secular defenders of globalism are more hive minded than the clerical critics, suggests globalism has become more of an all-consuming religion than Catholicism. It is international fascism. 

Whether or not the Pope is a globalist is unimportant. What matters is whether or not he is a Catholic. Look at the response from Francis when Trump announced that he was withdrawing the US from the Paris climate deal. The Pope had heavily lobbied Trump in person on the mysteries of climate. He gave him a book pushing the apocalyptic claims of the most unhinged climate fanatics. It’s not unfair to say that the Pope bet a big chunk of the Church’s prestige on this, so naturally he was very angry at the result.

Now, the Pope had a joint presser with Trump on his home turf. Trump has been divorced a few times, has children from a variety of women. He is, by his own admission, a serial adulterer. The Church, at its core, opposes the way in which Trump has lived his life. At their meeting in Rome, the Pope could have taken the time to admonish Trump on these basic theological issues. At the minimum, he could have made the most powerful man in the world blush a bit about his lifestyle, even if he was not willing to be Thomas More.

Of course, the Pope is more than a theologian and spiritual leader. He is a politicians so it is understandable if maybe he would avoid the personal. He could have, however, weighed in on the oppression of Christians and Catholics in the US. That health care bill everyone says is a mess has provisions that compel Catholics to act in a way that contradicts their faith. That should be pretty damned high on the Pope’s list of concerns to be broached with the American President.

It’s not just a question about the Pope being Catholic, or at least prioritizing Catholic theology over his personal theology. The question is whether the Catholic Church is still Catholic. It used to be that the Church was at the forefront of social issues like abortion and homosexual marriage. Today, it is rare to hear anything from the Church on social issues. Instead, in the US at least, the Church is more concerned with maintaining their refugee rackets and defending Gaia from your lawnmower.

We are in a post-Christian world so perhaps it is inevitable that the Catholic Church would be looking around for a way to remain relevant. Attendance at Christian services continues to drop and the median age of self-identified Christians keeps going up. On the other hand, it is not unreasonable to think that maybe what hurts the Catholic Church is that it has stopped being Catholic. There are a million places to hear sermons on Gaia, diversity and other Progressive fads. The Pope is just another voice in the choir.

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james wilson
Guest

Agree with all. “Is the Pope Catholic?” is no longer part of a joke. My vibe is that if Francis were a younger man and could pontificate forty years we would see the Church preside over homosexual marriage….between priests.

karl hungus
Guest

when people tell me the catholic church is full of paedophiles, i get very upset with such careless talk. the catholic church has a few paedos, for sure. but for the most part they are pederasts, which is a very different thing altogether.

the vatican and all of its franchisees is a jobs program for homos, and nothing more. they haven’t lifted a finger to help the ME christians, and that tells you all you need to know about “the church”.

Dutch
Guest

The Catholic Church has paedophiles, so do the Mosques. The crime is turning the other way, as an institution, to ignore the paedophilia, and use the assets of the church to hide the problem and try to buy the silence of the victims. Individual persons will go wrong, but it is up to the larger institution not to stand for it.

karl hungus
Guest

is islam the test, for christianity?

the thing is, the pederasts are running the church, top to “bottom”. it is a predatory organization with no actual religious feeling at all. it is irredeemable.

Zeroh Tollrants
Guest

Oy vey, goy! Don’t foget those Jewish pedophiles in the temples! Gotta keep that under wraps, as well, Moshe.

Guest
So in 1992, when the worst was over, the rate was 15 incidents of reported abuse per 100,000 confirmations. By 2001 it had dropped to of 5 incidents of abuse per 100,000 confirmations in the Catholic Church. There was a similar drop in American society as a whole but less steep and from a consistently higher rate. For comparison, the Swedish figures for reported sex crimes against all children under 15 was 142/100,000 children in 1992, and 169/100,000 in 2001. These figures suggest that during the 1990s a child in Sweden, possibly the most secularised country in Europe, was between… Read more »
karl hungus
Guest

what is your point? that there is a lot of child molestation in the world? was that ever in doubt? looks very much like you are making excuses for the pederasts in the catholic church; endorsing their predations as “better than “.

Guest

The point is that your kid is still safer as an altar boy than he is out in the real world. Safer by a multiple of at least 28.

FaCubeItches
Guest

Except that being an altar boy would be an *additional* risk; he’d already face the same real world risk as everyone else when he was away from the Church.

YIH
Guest
My guess is the priesthood (and sisterhood) has always been chock-full of homos. In the past, if little Patrick or Patrica was ”questioning” their interest in the opposite sex there was always a publicly approved ‘out’ – the church. If someone says ”Hey Pat, why not go to the dance? (or on dates, ect.)” the collar (or habit) provides a shield to such issues: ”Ooh! Sorry, didn’t know of your seminary (nunnery)”. In the past, (and in places like Argentina, like where Francis came from) there were plenty of orphans, street urchins and foundlings that if they ”just disappeared” one… Read more »
Member

For decades it has been observed by some that the seminaries were being overtaken by homo influence. It should come as no surprise that pederasty would come to fore at some point with a pecentage of them.

If you want good insights into the traditional views of Catholicism, E. Michael Jones is good to read or view on youtube. Jewish capitalism as he calls it. Usary in the old tongue.

dad29
Guest

Mike was a helluva good read about 30 years ago. Subscribed recently (again) for a year, and he’s gone off his rocker.

Member

The pope is a heretic

rosey
Guest

Either that or he is the greatest psyops of all time, planted to root out the true perverts and heretics.

But I’ll place my bet on you being correct.

Member

Nah, he’s just a retard, a LoFo LoQ third world dolt.

Al from da Nort
Guest
Z Man; Para 3 , last sentence: Did you mean to say “… long attachment to the sovereign authority of the _pope_…” instead of “…long attachment to the sovereign authority of the _people_…”. The restatement is is at least partly accurate, the original is questionable. The RC Church was trans-national for most of its history, having its own language (Latin), legal structure (cannon law), literature, etc. The trans-national RCC is a big part of why we can talk about Western Civilization because it was the cultural glue binding the various Slavic, Germanic and Latin/Keltic nationalities that comprise W Civ. until… Read more »
Member

Every time the Church tries to become more “relevant” it loses members. People can get kumbaya and folk songs anywhere. To me Francis is not a communist but just another member of the cult of modern liberalism. If he would bring back the Latin mass, and start talking about sin and salvation he might actually turn things around, but that will not happen. The Vatican hierarchy is now an elitist club with absolutely no connection to the dirt people.

Member

I think it’s​ clear that bergoglio doesn’t believe Catholic teachings.

Al from da Nort
Guest

On Topic: To atone for my previous transgressions: https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=aaplw&p=Lutheran+Satire%3A+Frank+the+hippy+Pope#id=1&vid=8668fc935aeb5f979da2fd930168e4df&action=click

Appeals to a certain upper midwest sensibility 😉

Member

Perfect, thanks.

Tax Slave
Guest

LOL!

Guest

It seems to me that he is probably just being realistic about dealing with the rest of the world. It might not be the way the Church teaches or the way the Church wants things, but that’s the way things are and there’s also no sense in being hostile to the rest of the world, either.

karl hungus
Guest

the word you are looking for is “appeasement” or perhaps “collaborator” (I would go with “Judas” myself, but then I am old testament school)

Guest
As someone who is an “ethnic Catholic”, I rub elbows with people from all walks of life within our parish and you have all kinds who are members there. When you have someone not toeing the line and doing the right things in their life, we typically don’t ostracize the person. It’s hard to ostracize someone you’ve known for many years. You usually just shrug your shoulders and say, “Well, it’s his life–he’s only hurting himself.” It’s not “live and let live” so much as that being the reality of life and that people phuck up and make mistakes or… Read more »
Durandel
Guest

So you play the coward and dress it up as being pragmatic…I think Christ called this behavior lukewarm.

Have some freaken zeal for your faith, TempoNick. Otherwise, leave and be a Protestant. Most Catholics are, even the priests, since Vatican II. Just be honest about it. Then you can carry on with life without external strife or internal dissonance.

Member

Nick, the Church started out being hostile to the rest of the world. It did pretty well until it decided to join the globalist club.

dad29
Guest

Francis is not a communist but just another member of the cult of modern liberalism

He had a lot of VERY strange mentors and friends–for a non-Commie. But granting that, there’s little question of his Thoroughly Modern Millie-isms–except for abortion (!)

Heartlander
Guest
True, he doesn’t support abortion. But during the big initial Zika scare last year, he essentially excused the use of contraception — that is, he bucked the 2,000-year-old teaching of the Catholic Church — implying that a risk of birth defects means that the teaching can now be discarded. In other words, he bought into the eugenic mentality. Once one buys into that, by the same logic, it would be allowable to abort any such baby who managed to squeak through because of faulty contraception. This has always been the argument of the pro-abortion people. So it really doesn’t matter… Read more »
dad29
Guest

Point taken. Still a Thoroughly Modern Millie. And by the way, his flipso/flopso on marriage is of a piece with that Zika thought, when you stop to think of it.

Member

The first time I ever encountered the term “social justice” was in sophomore year theology class, St. XXX Catholic High School, circa 1978 or 79.

Lowin Fovoter
Guest

Different High School, same era, same indoctrination. And the Xavarian Brother teaching it was a flaming H-mo, one of more than a few as I recall.

Member
The order running my high school had a reputation for being somewhat blue collar and pretty good at screening for deviants. I recall them mostly being frustrated straights. I always have a hard time understanding how things like this infiltrate a large organization or a society so evenly and simultaneously. I vaguely remember the year the nuns left. My first grade year, we had ten nuns. The next year, about four left and another three or four moved out of the convent and into a Catholic Workerish home in the community where they all wore civvies. When I started third… Read more »
Guest
Remember when Oprah was trying to purchase a handbag in Switzerland and she got mad that they weren’t bowing down and kissing her feet because she’s … Oprah? Oprah was apparently too dumb to understand why people in Switzerland, where they don’t air her show, wouldn’t know how important she is so she tried applying the American template of race relations and accused them of being “raciss”. Of course, the American template doesn’t really work there since they didn’t have slavery and they don’t have the same dynamics in their relationship with what few blacks there are in Switzerland. This… Read more »
Rod1963
Guest
That Oprah incident was a result of her being dressed like w welfare black. Right after the story broke, one of the British tabloids who was following her around in Switzerland posted pics of her. She was dressed like a fat black hood rat. BTW the store had security cameras – notice they were never shown? Because they put Oprah in a bad light. You are right about conservatives and Christianity here. Over the decades conservative Christianity has been synonymous with rah rah Ayn Randian capitalism. Being rich brought you closer to God and then there is the cult of… Read more »
Member

Without makeup Oprah is an ugly, ugly woman. At a medical meeting at the Drake once. My wife and I were standing out front and a couple of black women in jogging outfits walk by. She says hello like she knows them. I ask what’s going on. She says that’s Oprah. I’m like, Yewwww!

Lowin Fovoter
Guest
The Catholic Chrurch started going sideways when the priests started throwing “social justice” into their homilies, which was probably the inevitable result of the marxists and homosexuals taking power in the leadership. A letter the local pastor wrote to the editor of the weekly paper shaming the town for requiring recipients to work at the dump in exchange for town welfare drove me away for about 30 years. Being your age and having recently started to attend Mass again, I find that I’m on the younger side of the crowd, so I imagine that the situation will resolve itself within… Read more »
Heartlander
Guest

I hope any frustrated Catholics here will check out Ann Barnhardt. She has a lot to say on these matters. I’m not sure if I agree with her on all points, but her ideas are definitely worth consideration.

Durandel
Guest

I’d check out Church Militant rather than Barnhardt. She’s good, but the CM group does a better job exposing all the problems in the Church right now.

Chriscom
Guest
As a Catholic who is a big fan of Benedict (and felt abandoned by his retirement), I will tell you that Francis is kind of a Peronist who is also sympathetic to liberation theology (and for those who happily are not familiar with that, a flavor of Marxism). Given his history and upbringing in Argentina this is just how that river flows. It also helps explain why he is so very ignorant about the society-wide benefits of capitalism–he was formed by what he saw of it in his native land, which especially while he was coming up was deeply corporatist… Read more »
Member
First of all, Catholic anti-capitalism whining is nothing new, it has been fairly ritualistic under at least 6 latest Popes I remember. However, the current one is something special. One knew already at the monent of his election that he was one of the loudest voices of the ill-famed Liberation Theology, in other words, Latin American radical leftism cosmetically covered in holy smoke. Second, even for a Latin American progressivist, Francis is extremely reality-blind and dogmatic in everything that promotes Western suffering and the Third World expansion. In doing so, he definitively takes his church on the path of a… Read more »
Member

“Promotes western suffering”

The monk wants everyone else to wear hair shirts, too. Even if he doesn’t.

Epicaric
Guest
As we have seen with a number of corporations and media outlets, the Catholic church erred in forgetting who their core audience is. The recent. ESPN example is salient: a kowtowing to the urban Left while disregarding the stodgy suburban. The former are either not sports fans, or simply have no money to spend on their advertisers’ wares. Meanwhile the latter, once recognized as their core audience, slowly withdraw, closing the door quietly behind themselves. Likewise, the Church saw the much ballyhooed Hispanic demographic as a means to fill the pews. They are now finding that they do not fill… Read more »
Member

I noticed a lot of leftists all of a sudden become football and basketball fans the second they realized that their side was taking over. This in retrospect, of course. I can’t really say that I picked up on it at the time.

Key lesson: if someone on the left starts liking something he paid no attention to before, it is usually for an evil reason.

Heartlander
Guest

The Hispanics fill the pews for a WHILE — but a lot of them drop out or migrate to the Evangelical Protestant churches.

Member

“it is not unreasonable to think that maybe what hurts the Catholic Church is that it has stopped being Catholic”

Yup.

BaruchK
Guest

I am not in a position to say what is and what is not a Catholic.

However, based on the fact that he had a reception hall built in such a way as to make it appear that he is standing in the mouth of a serpent, and addresses audiences there regularly, I think the Pope is some sort of Satanist.

https://www.quora.com/Why-does-the-Paul-VI-Audience-Hall-in-Rome-Vatican-City-look-like-a-serpent-And-what-does-this-say-about-the-intentions-of-the-Catholic-Church

Heartlander
Guest

That photo is a fish-eye lens distortion made by someone with an agenda who is deliberately manipulating things.

ambiguousfrog
Guest
I can weed out the haters because they always preface with: I am not in a position to say what is and what is not “a” Catholic, then proceed to beat you over the head with some unproven nonsense. I would’ve respected you more if you told me the six hills the Vatican is built on is described in the book of Revelation and Pope is the Anti-Christ, or maybe even some Jack Chick illustrations. The methods of winning converts or people over to your side are so predictable. Par for the course as a Catholic I guess, but I’m… Read more »
TomA
Guest
The decline of all religions is a symptom of the decline of the species as a whole. We no longer value ancient wisdom instilled at a young age via the mechanisms that all religions historically afford, and instead young people today meander aimlessly through their developmental years until the addiction to modern social media indoctrinates them with all manner of trendy and transitory ideals. Instead of establishing a sound bedrock based upon time-tested principles, they blow in the wind of popular opinion and are forever at the mercy of charlatans and megalomaniacs. Most don’t even know that this country is… Read more »
Garr
Guest

More Muslim mass-murder in London. Link through Drudge to see pictures of fleeing White men. They need leaders. Tommy Robinson, please tell them what to DO!

Tax Slave
Guest

Buy stock in candle and teddy bear manufacturers.

FaCubeItches
Guest

And the rights to “Imagine”

Garr
Guest

It seems to me that some men are natural leaders, and that the majority of men who aren’t may nevertheless be willing to sacrifice their lives or accept the likelihood of imprisonment in defense of their societies when they are in fact led by these natural leaders. One can’t really blame non-leaders for non-action when they’re not being led. (I know I’m not a natural leader.)

JoanOfArc
Guest

Listening to a John Venari CD today confirmed my observation of the complete infiltration & upheaval of the Church by Freemasonry.

jbspry
Guest
I suspect the author was raised by a loving but pious Catholic mother, and cannot entirely break free of the faith he acquired at his mother’s knee. Catholicism is opposed to globalism? The Catholic Church was simply the theological arm of the later Roman Empire, the folks who invented modern globalism. Catholicism and Globalism are merely the technical and trades names, respectively, for the same drug. “Catholicism[‘s] long attachment to the sovereign authority of the people”? Are you freakin’ kidding me? The people are sheep, literally, the “flock”, in the eyes of the Catholic clergy. The sole repository of all… Read more »
FaCubeItches
Guest

Given that there have been politicians who specifically stated that their Catholic faith required them to support abortion and the Pope proceeded to do sweet fuck all about it (which, to be fair, was of a piece with his predecessors), it’s pretty safe to say that his understanding of his own faith is questionable, at the very least.

LetsPlay
Member
Is the Pope Catholic? Well, he looks like one, dresses like the supposed leader of the Church, talks like one, walks like one, but he is only a figment of the imagination same as Obozo was an American who was President for all the People of the USA. You want to know more about the real Francis, go see what Ann Barnhardt has to say on the subject. She is pretty fierce in her condemnation of this man and his goals. For example, in her latest post, she states in part “FIVE: Oh yes, I am definitely enjoying Trump’s withdrawal… Read more »
Heartlander
Guest

Ann Barnhardt makes a very good case that Bergoglio is an anti-pope, and that Benedict is still Pope.
http://www.barnhardt.biz/2017/01/16/cutting-the-crap-31-questions-and-blunt-answers-about-the-catholic-church-and-antipope-bergoglio/

dad29
Guest

“…Catholicism long attachment to the sovereign authority of the people…”

Viva Christo Rey! He ain’t no “people”, but He has all the ‘sovereign authority.’

Yes, I know what you think you meant.

Member
Z-man. Your outsiders point of view of the Catholic Church is somewhat off target. I commend that you see problems, as we in the Catholic Church know there are big problems, but you are not well informed, as you are an outsider looking in, to see the real issues. – The pediophile thing is far from over, it’s stain in the church is certainly a big clue to the problem. – Research the St. Micheal prayer, its origins. Us informed Catholics know there’s a battle for the Church of Christ, and it seems to some of us traditional conservative Catholics… Read more »
JB Cash
Guest
The Pope is most certainly not Catholic. He is a universalist religious figure, a symbol of western post Christianity. Like virtually every western politician he shows no allegiance to the people he is supposed to represent and instead sides with others. Anyone who has been a Catholic knows that the bar for getting into heaven is extremely high. A Catholic has to go through various rites and sacraments and any hint of sin or failure to follow the proscribed path is enough for banishment to hell. Yet the Pope has no problem with welcoming Muslims, Jews, secularists, to the Vatican.… Read more »
Heartlander
Guest

I think you have a skewed/twisted vision of the Catholic faith if you think “any hint of sin or failure to follow the proscribed path is enough for banishment to hell.” The faith is about relationship with Jesus. The sacraments were given to us by Him to deepen that relationship and give us “not just life, but life abundantly.”

I do share your concern about what looks like Bergoglio’s failure to preach the Gospel “in season and out of season.”

JB Cash
Guest
What do you mean skewered? Catholic doctrine states that the only way to get into heaven is in “a perfect state of grace”, That means no sin on your soul. A mortal sin is eternal banishment and venial sin will send you to purgatory for a while. Unless you make a confession to a priest before death you are fated to purgatory or hell. A mortal sin is rather easy to commit. Any impure thought is enough for example. One of the big issues that Protestant religions have with Catholicism is that their entry to heaven is usually easier, belief… Read more »
K.N. Mcbride
Guest
Z-man, we all have our weak points and the Church is clearly one of yours. Why on earth would the Pope insult Trump to his face at their first formal meeting? What possible good could come of that? You said: “He could have, however, weighed in on the oppression of Christians and Catholics in the US. That health care bill everyone says is a mess has provisions that compel Catholics to act in a way that contradicts their faith. That should be pretty damned high on the Pope’s list of concerns to be broached with the American President.” The thing… Read more »
Buckaroo Banzai
Guest
ZMan, the whole idea of “International fascism” is absurd. Fascism is inherently nationalist, as its authority springs from family, tribe, ethnicity, and race. The system you describe is closer to Communism, which is inherently internationalist, where authority springs from a political/technical/managerial elite who administer a deracinated population of economic human-resource units, largely for the benefit of the elites themselves. Since the international elites have no organic (i.e. family/ethnic/racial) human connection to the human-resource units they manage (consequently developing a closer connection to their fellow elite), they rapidly develop contempt for their charges, treating them like a faceless mass of interchangeable… Read more »
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