Dissident Politics

To start the year, I made the rather obvious prediction that the coalition of weirdos that willed Donald Trump into the White House would succumb to infighting and begin to break apart and splinter. This was a no-brainer, as fringe politics tends to attract weirdos and weirdos tend not to get along with other weirdos. Often, people are attracted to these movements over one issue. They find out that their new friends have a whole list of other issues that don’t match up with everyone else. That breeds conflict.

There’s also a “giant among midgets” phenomenon, where someone can be a star in a small group and outgrow their hat. In the mass media age, it’s easy to start thinking you’re a big deal when you see your social media profile grow and the calls from media people start coming.This was obvious with Milo who started thinking he was bulletproof. He had gotten away with so much that he thought he could say anything. It did not take long before he pissed off the wrong people.

Then you have the fact that political coalitions are temporary. Many people voted for Trump because they hated Clinton, so they were willing to look past the cartoon frogs and Hitler memes. Now, not so much. Then there is the fact that there is money to be made in politics. Lots of money. A racket like the Oath Keepers is a business that used to be able to peddle themselves as an edgy opposition group. The new groups turning up and battling the Left make the geezers at Oath Keepers look silly. That’s bad for business.

Of course, the Dissident Right is suddenly hip. If you look at the sites and events catering to us, you see lots of young males, which is resulting in lots of young females, because biology. Once young people get into something, even a small thing, it attracts people hoping to ride the wave to riches. That inevitably leads to the purists complaining that their thing has gone commercial along with accusations that the leaders are selling out. You see some of that with guys like Mike Cernovich.

Anyway, things have reached a boiling point with Mike Cernovich and Richard Spencer denouncing one another on-line. Vox Day got into this a little bit the other day in one of his periscope things. For those who don’t follow this stuff, there was a free speech rally in DC last weekend. The organizer invited Spencer and that led to Cerno and the alt-lite guys having a counter rally. Cernovich then made a bunch of wild claims on-line about who did what and a purse fight ensued. It’s all a bit silly, but these things always are to outsiders.

The main problem for all of these guys is the leaders, wannabe leaders and personalities are simply not very good at politics and public relations. That’s common in outsider politics. The two big political parties are good at grooming and selecting people so they can put on a good show for the public. Outsider movements have no systems for doing this so it means the first wave of leaders and personalities are often just the first people to step up to the podium. Spencer registered the domain, so he’s the leader of the alt-right.

All these guys squabbling with one another will inevitably be pushed aside by people who are better at organizing and better at presenting themselves and their arguments to the public. Pax Dickinson, the guy behind Counter.Fund, often makes this point. Most of these people got into this stuff by accident and events carried them to prominent roles. In time, new people will come along who will know how to avoid the petty squabbling and figure out how to impose discipline without alienating the people with big egos.

The bigger issue, as Vox Day points out regularly, is that the alt-lite faction has no future, because it has no logical reason to exist. Civic nationalism sounds good to the younger people, who are fans of McInnes and Cernovich, because they don’t remember the 1980’s when the Buckley crowd were civic nationalists. The lesson of the Reagan years is that civic nationalism has no way to defend itself against the Left. Once you agree to the blank slate argument, you inevitably have to agree to the rest of the Progressive moral order.

The alt-right is not without their problems. The vision Richard Spencer has for a white ethno-state strikes most people, including me, as a bit ridiculous. In fact, the idea of a world wide honky awakening is absurd. Most people engage in culture debate in framework of politics and they are just not going to sign off on a political agenda that strikes them as fantasy. The Libertarian Party has proved this fact beyond any debate and their fantasy land is more realistic than the honky paradise offered by Spencer.

The thing the alt-right has working in their favor is reality. In a multi-racial, multi-ethnic society, people vote their skin. That’s the lesson of history. Humans are tribal and hierarchical. That’s the lesson of biology. As whites in America come to realize their decreasing numbers, relative to the rest of society, white solidarity will naturally evolve and develop into a political order. The exact contours of how this plays out are open for debate, but in the end, Charles Murray was right. Racial politics is the future in the US.

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Member

There’s a buck to be made along the way. Milo, Cerno, and even Sargon.
They are like high school nerds who fall into the in group and think they are a big deal. All citing their youtube subscriber numbers.

Watch this weeks Joe Rogan interview with Sargon. He revealed too much and showed his hubris.

Joey Junger
Guest
My brother is younger than me and is in the alt-right. I remember him showing me a video of Richard Spencer, and the first thing I thought was “Norman Lincoln Rockwell,” after which I told my brother, “This guy is going to get killed, and probably by someone in his own movement,” a la Rockwell. I think Spencer’s a sturdier (or at least less degenerate) personality than Milo, but at the same time I do see him succumbing to the blandishments that get to most people in his position, the desire to make it less about the issues he’s addressing… Read more »
Walt
Guest

The Spencer and Hoffman comparison is apt. For Hoffman, the motivation was hairy, damaged women. For Spencer, strapping young white men in Hilfiger sweaters.

Charlie_U
Guest

If you’ve got a spare moment, do a search for “Richard Spencer PHALANX” and see what comes up.

The man is, to use the Z-man’s term, a gold-plated phony.

Joey Junger
Guest

* George Lincoln Rockwell. Norman Rockwell was the painter, not the founder of the American Nazi party.

Member

George Lincoln Rockwell.

Severian
Guest
Reality is a harsh mistress though, especially in a globalized world. E.g.: if as many say, the average African IQ is 70, then the very best case scenario for that continent is benign, paternal recolonization. That’s a tough pill for us normies to swallow — we know how hard it is to keep *ourselves* in three hots and a cot sometimes; how the hell are we to know what’s best for a billion others an ocean away? (which is also btw why I say today’s SJW is tomorrow’s obergruppenfuhrer — *they* have no problem telling other people how to live;… Read more »
SpongeBob
Guest

The difference in average IQ and all that comes with that means that it is unlikely the US holds together in its current form. African communities do not look like Hispanic communities do not look like white communities etc.
In this regard Europe is in a much better position because they are still about 85% white. Its easier for them to expel their invaders compared to the US that is already heavily balkanized, even if in a proto stage of such.

LetsPlay
Member
Holy Batman, Zman. Just a couple of posts ago, you wouldn’t talk about Intelligent Design or Creationism except to denigrate, at a very high and superfluous level, the concepts being debated. Now you attack Oath Keepers while not even mentioning the three organizations mentioned on the page your link provided, the purpose of the organization, or the purpose for posting such information for readers of the site. You are hurling around a lot of vitriol which smacks of intellectual dishonesty. And your constant harangue about IQ makes me wonder if you would not support a Margaret Sanger type genocide of… Read more »
Ryan T
Guest

you dont have to cull the low IQ, you just have to keep them far enough away while they cull themselves

james wilson
Guest

We don’t need to do something, we need to stop doing something, which is paying retarded teenage girls to have babies with twenty-five year old men, which in one society is prosecuted as rape and in the other is situation normal. Also, bring back orphanages. Seriously.

Ursula
Guest

And stop sending money and food to Africa, for crying out loud.

Member
Yeah. Something has him pissed, but still a good read. Sometimes it’s hard to tell what the column is really about. I think the key thing to note here is that he believes there is a distinction to be made between Dissident Right and Alt Right. Perhaps Dissident Right is an umbrella term for all of the right wing that tries to distinguish itself from Conservatism Inc. I don’t read enough of the other sites to know the exact taxonomy that seems to be developing. The main thing I would like to see is the tacit agreement among all these… Read more »
Alzaebo
Guest

Z’s a diagnostic type, good at seeing design flaws. His unhesitant objectivity is actually quite rare.

Dutch
Guest

As was Hayek. “The Road to Serfdom” brilliantly dismantled socialism. The hard part is coming up with viable specific alternatives, which weakened the second half of Hayek’s valuable book.

james wilson
Guest
Adam Smith spent years writing a method for applying the principles he had borrowed or discovered, but as his death approached he had his servant collect and burn every last page. It couldn’t be done. Hayek’s contributions were very like Adam Smith’s, in understanding abstract rules of conduct. Order flows from that. “Man cannot foresee his own advance. The socialist mind can conceive of order only as the result of deliberate arrangement, but to extend human cooperation beyond the limits of human awareness requires being governed not by shared purposes, but abstract rules of conduct.” The rest is our problem,… Read more »
Rabbi High Comma
Guest

The Alt-Lite exists for dem shekels. Cernovich used to lecture the Ait-Right in demeaning tones that “you don’t know how to grow a brand.” Fuck their brands. We do this for free with a smile on our faces. Our brand is our race. The pay? A future for White children.

Member

I suspect cernovich is going to have a short shelf life.

SpongeBob
Guest

Unless he starts going alt-right, yes he is.

Zeroh Tollrants
Guest

His wife is…Iranian? Bolivian? Some such, and they have a daughter. He’s not going to go full Alt-Right. He’s where he’s going to go.

Alzaebo
Guest

Unless he’s the next “house pet conservative.”

Horace Pinker
Guest
Part of Cerno’s brand is being “the world’s leading mindset expert.” All of his mindset crap is based on Carol Dweck’s research on “growth mindset,” which is currently in the process of falling apart like so many other too-goo-to-be-true things in social psychology that don’t replicate. Dweck is typically the woman people point to when they say they’re optimistic about the achievement gap being closed. Seriously. However, it’s hard to tell if this is a con on Cerno’s part or not. I lean toward thinking it is, but he also might buy into his own bullshit. Has anyone ever asked… Read more »
Eclectic Esoteric
Guest

Politics have become a form of entertainment, so much so that movie and tv icons inject themselves into the manufactured controversies to compete for attention. The engine of the deep state rolls on while the carnies joust for air time and the spoils of federal money.

A full congressional pension is available to someone who is 62 after 5 years of service. Who wouldn’t consider polishing their shtick for a little piece of that self-perpetuating pie.

Member

All aboard the Mindset Patriots Express! Send us five bucks a month and get your Official Mindset Kit today! Rainbow civic nationalism! Whoopee!

Alzaebo
Guest

We could use some soccer hooligans right about now.
“If yer not a Manc, yer a wank!”

Member

I’d take my Scousers against the mancs any day.

Guest
Guest
If you accept the premises of your final two paragraphs, as I do, then you should eventually come around to adopting my position: in order for the American Republic to continue we must evict California from the Union in the next 8-12 years. The sooner the better. Demographic change will give Democrats a permanent lock on the White House by 2028. Democrats will rule by Executive Order, and Congressional Republicans will register only token protests. The supremacy clause will ensure any state-based resistance to Democratic policies are overruled. Obama’s use of Executive Orders was a preview of things to come.… Read more »
SpongeBob
Guest
I disagree. As soon as the “gib me dats” handouts stop or are interrupted you have will see a “phase change” step up in civil conflict and ethnic politics/cleansing. Its already going on with Hispanics removing black from historic black strong hold such as Compton in CA, its stealth ethnic cleansing and already going on. If we accept ZMan’s premise in the last paragraph then intermittent social conflict with some level of ethnic cleansing would be expected to being surging in heavy urban centers as the debt overhang implodes and disrupts various sectors of the economy. it will be similar… Read more »
Alzaebo
Guest

Which will blow first- Yellowstone or Chicago?

Guest
Guest

? Your comment is not remotely related to mine. Did you mean to post elsewhere?

Alzaebo
Guest

I was thinking Illinois- “debt overhang” combining explosively with “social conflict.”

Plus, if the Yellowstone caldera blows, that could be a civilization-ending event, Biblical in proportion. I was trying to be cute.

Alzaebo
Guest

PSS- in reply to Guest, not Spongebob, and as one born and living in the Califa:

I must agree with your demographic prognosis. I see it here on the front lines.

The Deep State will never let the western ports go. We are their link to the north-south axis of their Cartel middlemen, and now their link to the One Belt and money of the Chinese generals.

Split us in two, or make us Quebec, please gods don’t abandon us to save the Quisling Party. We’re the Warsaw Ghetto here.

CaptDMO
Guest

“If you look at the sites and events catering to us, you see lots of young males, which is resulting in lots of young females, because biology.”
How odd, it’s the other way around with Communist, Socialist, Democrat, new world order parties

Anonymous White Male
Guest
“There’s also a “giant among midgets” phenomenon, where someone can be a star in a small group and outgrow their hat. In the mass media age, it’s easy to start thinking you’re a big deal when you see your social media profile grow and the calls from media people start coming.” This is one of my pet peeves. I do not denigrate the work various “rightists” do. And I also am ignorant about how you can make money on the internet. But, it seems that “making a living” is a fundamental drive for those that have chosen the internet as… Read more »
Pericles
Guest

Hitler became wealthy from royalties from the sale of Mein Kamph, and use of his image. When every family in Germany buys a book and and a picture …. the Reichmarks add up.

Anonymous White Male
Guest
But, that was not the source of his income prior to 1926 and was not his only source of income after that. According to Infogalactic: Although Hitler originally wrote this book mostly for the followers of National Socialism, it grew in popularity. He accumulated a tax debt of 405,500 Reichsmark (very roughly in 2015 GPB£1.1 million, €1.4 million, US$1.5 million) from the sale of about 240,000 copies before he became chancellor in 1933 (at which time his debt was waived). Hitler had made about 1.2 million Reichsmarks from the income of his book in 1933 (Don’t know if this is… Read more »
TomA
Guest

In our present society of extraordinary affluence, politics rewards dependency on government; and as a consequence, those ranks are growing exponentially. Long term dependency eventually begets parasitic behavior, which is more than just addictive, it destroys one’s capacity to work and produce. A viscous cycle is born. Politicians proactively grow the parasites, who in turn vote for more depraved politicians. Zombie politics is the future.

Eclectic Esoteric
Guest

A black swan event is the future. The turkey has no idea what thanksgiving day is until the farmer shows up with an ax instead of a bucket of corn.

Member

“As whites in America come to realize their decreasing numbers, relative to the rest of society, white solidarity will naturally evolve and develop into a political order.”

Which is why the MSM have worked so tirelessly to keep this information hidden from whites. So far, they are succeeding.

Dutch
Guest

At this point, they are only succeeding at keeping the pressure on to inhibit people from speaking out about what they already know. Instead the people quietly and privately pull the voting lever for Trump.

Karl Hungus
Guest

and more voters are silently moving to Trump’s side every day.

SpongeBob
Guest
The thing the alt-right has working in their favor is reality. In a multi-racial, multi-ethnic society, people vote their skin. That’s the lesson of history. Humans are tribal and hierarchical. That’s the lesson of biology. As whites in America come to realize their decreasing numbers, relative to the rest of society, white solidarity will naturally evolve and develop into a political order. The exact contours of how this plays out are open for debate, but in the end, Charles Murray was right. Racial politics is the future in the US Identity politics means that an ethno state is a very… Read more »
Dutch
Guest

Why will the government generally side with the minorities? I see in the House and Senate a bunch of rich white people, and a few crazy others. The political money behind the scenes is also mostly white. Once the tribal and ethnic divisions become clear and everyone is required to take a side, the lefty rich whites will start to migrate over very quickly. Taking a stand for the minorities is easy when it does not affect you negatively. In a nationwide racial call-out, that easy virtue will swiftly be revisited.

SpongeBob
Guest
Minorities generally have a much higher time preference, meaning that they want results now, they don’t generally make decisions that pay off in 5, 10 , 20 years. From a political standpoint, a minority supporter is more likely to keep you in office. Now to get a bit more uncomfortable, blacks and Hispanics ( the major minority groups in the US) are on average more violent and as such the political cost of alienating them is higher than alienating whites that may groan and grumble but don’t violently riot and burn of it. Further more the globalist agenda is partially… Read more »
Dutch
Guest
I agree with your post, and especially the last sentence, which is the key statement of the whole thing. “At (t)his point…” But I think when things shift for the rich whites, it will shift very fast and unexpectedly. Just like the Trump phenomenon, which went from nonexistent to the presidency in roughly one year. Rich whitey will understand that the poor minorities will never be satisfied, and only ask for more. Also that the political system is not really designed to save and protect them, when push comes to shove (the political system only protects itself, in the end).… Read more »
SpongeBob
Guest

A very real possibility

Alzaebo
Guest

But- will Dirt whites believe the Cloud whites this time?

I might sh**t the first parrot that squawks “But Dick Cheney is a hero!”

Dutch
Guest

Probably not. But the cloud whites will be looking for a place to land. They will want to be able to go out of their gated communities once in a while, without absolutely everyone hating them. More edumacated ones know something about the French Revolution and how all that went down. The clouds will try to buy support from anyone who will sell it to them before it is all over. It is all transactional for most of them anyway.

TWS
Guest

It’s the top and bottom against the middle. The bottom really cannot stop the elites (and will not stop them) but the middle class (what’s left of it) can shut them down.

If they thought for a second Trump would win they would have rigged it harder.

If they knew Gorsuch was going to actually be a constitutional conservative they would have bumped him off.

The globalist right and left are two tentacles of the same octopus.

james wilson
Guest

Poppycock. There are different shades of red, but there is no globalist right.

Alzaebo
Guest

Before the Clinton Foundation, there was the Bush Family.

We could go back to the Revolution on this subject.
Never, ever, ever trust the Clouds.

Dutch
Guest

Clinton Foundation–baseball bat with nails sticking out of it.

Bush Family–a long shiv hidden in a cane.

New Cloud money versus old Cloud money. They might work you over differently, but you get worked over either way. And, damn, it’s hard to see that shiv coming after you. You can see the baseball bat a mile off.

Member
Well, actually I am not sure people follow or not follow McInnes because someone once classified him as “alt-lite.” Rather, we all know him because he (1) is entertaining (2) does smth real, too, in addition to writing and posting videos (3) is free of dumb ideological dogmatism some wannabe altrightists believe entitle them to eternal respect and fame. And the stringently alt-right fugures are being evaluated in the very same way. Personally, I read Spencer when he writes about something important to me and does this intelligently and with style, and immediately stop reading when he gets boring and… Read more »
Dutch
Guest

Take what you can from whatever value all these sources offer, then sift it to get some sort of coherent understanding of it all. Nobody has a good claim on being always correct.

That’s what I like about this site. A whole lot of valuable nuggets to sift and sort.

Zeroh Tollrants
Guest

Gavin McInnes is NOT “free of any dumb ideological dogmatism,” despite what you may think you observe. I have met the man several times, and am friendly with a number of his acquaintances. He has this adopted air of one who takes chances, is edgy, but not too edgy, isn’t married to any particular idea, cries, “why can’t we all just get along,” but he is above all else, a guy who makes money. That’s his shtick, getting rich.He’s very good at it, too.

Member

OK, let McInnes get rich if he knows how. Donald Trump also managed to become rich. Isn´t that, by any chance, the reason so many, including the really poor devils from the Rust Belt, trusted him enough to let him become president?

Zeroh Tollrants
Guest

I didn’t mean to disparage the idea of making money/getting rich.
In the grand scheme of things I shouldn’t have gotten all triggered by your comment, apologies. My opinions are based on personal dealings and that doesn’t effect others.

Member
The last two paragraphs are the key. No one likes Richard Spencer when he suggests a white ethnostate. But then you admit humans are tribal, and the only way to resolve that for whites, is, well, with a white ethnostate. Just don’t call it that. Or say anything nice about Spencer. Even Tom Woods who isn’t exactly a firebrand basically is admitting, sotto voce, that secession must happen. But along which lines? Diversity isn’t a feature of libertarians. I expect his and Bob Murphy’s “Contra Cruise” will be 90% white and at least 70% male. Like the Freestate Project. But… Read more »
Zeroh Tollrants
Guest

“are Jews and Hispanics white?”

Uh, no.

JohnC
Guest
Hey Zman, Richard Spencer keep going about a white nation and white identity. Now we all know that whites can’t even agree with politics how would you have a nation based on only white identity, and why would white only identify as whites. I mean Europeans identity is not europeans or whites but their individual groups often in the nations not always. Italians are not the same as Germans as not the same as French. All three are white (not talking about immigrates) but the language, customs, religion, food and history are different. Now if say in america would not… Read more »
Zeroh Tollrants
Guest

Europeans in European countries see themselves as Finns, or Swedes, or Bretons, etc., not as “whites,” nor will they. As for Americans, they will have to rediscover their cultures and mend their deracinated roots that were uprooted after WW2, and as the left promotes their coalition of The Ascendant minority groups, versus The Descendant white majority, (soon to be minority), whites in this country will need to find commonalty in their race, unless they are willing to be replaced, while arguing that their great great grandmother was Italian.

Issac
Guest

I think you may be stretching the concept of infighting. The alt-right is more or less alone in the dissident camp. The alt-lite started, and will continue, to pick fights with them after the election because they know whites are going to become radicalized sooner or later. Ezra Levant and his many lackeys are merely attempting to slow the inevitable by distracting the gullible with typical appeals to liberalism.

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