Dissident Politics

To start the year, I made the rather obvious prediction that the coalition of weirdos that willed Donald Trump into the White House would succumb to infighting and begin to break apart and splinter. This was a no-brainer, as fringe politics tends to attract weirdos and weirdos tend not to get along with other weirdos. Often, people are attracted to these movements over one issue. They find out that their new friends have a whole list of other issues that don’t match up with everyone else. That breeds conflict.

There’s also a “giant among midgets” phenomenon, where someone can be a star in a small group and outgrow their hat. In the mass media age, it’s easy to start thinking you’re a big deal when you see your social media profile grow and the calls from media people start coming.This was obvious with Milo who started thinking he was bulletproof. He had gotten away with so much that he thought he could say anything. It did not take long before he pissed off the wrong people.

Then you have the fact that political coalitions are temporary. Many people voted for Trump because they hated Clinton, so they were willing to look past the cartoon frogs and Hitler memes. Now, not so much. Then there is the fact that there is money to be made in politics. Lots of money. A racket like the Oath Keepers is a business that used to be able to peddle themselves as an edgy opposition group. The new groups turning up and battling the Left make the geezers at Oath Keepers look silly. That’s bad for business.

Of course, the Dissident Right is suddenly hip. If you look at the sites and events catering to us, you see lots of young males, which is resulting in lots of young females, because biology. Once young people get into something, even a small thing, it attracts people hoping to ride the wave to riches. That inevitably leads to the purists complaining that their thing has gone commercial along with accusations that the leaders are selling out. You see some of that with guys like Mike Cernovich.

Anyway, things have reached a boiling point with Mike Cernovich and Richard Spencer denouncing one another on-line. Vox Day got into this a little bit the other day in one of his periscope things. For those who don’t follow this stuff, there was a free speech rally in DC last weekend. The organizer invited Spencer and that led to Cerno and the alt-lite guys having a counter rally. Cernovich then made a bunch of wild claims on-line about who did what and a purse fight ensued. It’s all a bit silly, but these things always are to outsiders.

The main problem for all of these guys is the leaders, wannabe leaders and personalities are simply not very good at politics and public relations. That’s common in outsider politics. The two big political parties are good at grooming and selecting people so they can put on a good show for the public. Outsider movements have no systems for doing this so it means the first wave of leaders and personalities are often just the first people to step up to the podium. Spencer registered the domain, so he’s the leader of the alt-right.

All these guys squabbling with one another will inevitably be pushed aside by people who are better at organizing and better at presenting themselves and their arguments to the public. Pax Dickinson, the guy behind Counter.Fund, often makes this point. Most of these people got into this stuff by accident and events carried them to prominent roles. In time, new people will come along who will know how to avoid the petty squabbling and figure out how to impose discipline without alienating the people with big egos.

The bigger issue, as Vox Day points out regularly, is that the alt-lite faction has no future, because it has no logical reason to exist. Civic nationalism sounds good to the younger people, who are fans of McInnes and Cernovich, because they don’t remember the 1980’s when the Buckley crowd were civic nationalists. The lesson of the Reagan years is that civic nationalism has no way to defend itself against the Left. Once you agree to the blank slate argument, you inevitably have to agree to the rest of the Progressive moral order.

The alt-right is not without their problems. The vision Richard Spencer has for a white ethno-state strikes most people, including me, as a bit ridiculous. In fact, the idea of a world wide honky awakening is absurd. Most people engage in culture debate in framework of politics and they are just not going to sign off on a political agenda that strikes them as fantasy. The Libertarian Party has proved this fact beyond any debate and their fantasy land is more realistic than the honky paradise offered by Spencer.

The thing the alt-right has working in their favor is reality. In a multi-racial, multi-ethnic society, people vote their skin. That’s the lesson of history. Humans are tribal and hierarchical. That’s the lesson of biology. As whites in America come to realize their decreasing numbers, relative to the rest of society, white solidarity will naturally evolve and develop into a political order. The exact contours of how this plays out are open for debate, but in the end, Charles Murray was right. Racial politics is the future in the US.

79 thoughts on “Dissident Politics

  1. There’s a buck to be made along the way. Milo, Cerno, and even Sargon.
    They are like high school nerds who fall into the in group and think they are a big deal. All citing their youtube subscriber numbers.

    Watch this weeks Joe Rogan interview with Sargon. He revealed too much and showed his hubris.

      • Sargon- A chubby Brit garden gnome who champions egalitarianism & a social net for one & all.
        In spite of these disastrous views, I can’t help but find him somewhat likeable & his videos worth a listen.
        These Alt-Lite types are the New Coke of the right wing.
        Those “Hate Speech Ain’t Free Speech” signs at their rally & Jack Psobiac (sp?) leading them in a sing-a-long of a Baby Boomer favorite, “Give Peace A Chance,” was like the ultimate parody moment.
        I didn’t think they could’ve topped the “You’re all gerbils!” & that goofy Laura Loomer chick setting up a fund for herself, pre-event, getting fined $200, and pocketing $25,000 off of stopping that Caesar play.
        What the hell was that?!?

        • I will never, ever understand how these people make money. Or how they can plot a rich career course, such as NYC Mayor deBlasio, or Ayers, or Obama.

      • I used to work with a guy best described as the Comic book store guy + Higgins from Magnum PI. Imperious yet morbidly obese. Weighing in at a floor shaking 375#, with a level of physical activity bested by Angela Lansbury. He broke seven office chairs in as many years. He was a mid-30s virgin who had never successfully even self-abused (don’t ask me why he was willing to share that info). His home and computer were full of anime (G and X). He was on 9-10 prescriptions at ay time, while having at least one medical appointment per week. He was the perfect liberal hot house flower.

  2. My brother is younger than me and is in the alt-right. I remember him showing me a video of Richard Spencer, and the first thing I thought was “Norman Lincoln Rockwell,” after which I told my brother, “This guy is going to get killed, and probably by someone in his own movement,” a la Rockwell. I think Spencer’s a sturdier (or at least less degenerate) personality than Milo, but at the same time I do see him succumbing to the blandishments that get to most people in his position, the desire to make it less about the issues he’s addressing and more about him. Ironically, he reminds me of Abbie Hoffman in this way, who clearly just used leftism as a springboard to sleep with a lot of women and be obnoxious.

    I really don’t know whether or not some kind of “Pax Pacific Northwest” can be achieved, like Harold Covington and others have been promoting since before Spencer was a mote in his mama’s eye. I do know that, having experienced diversity firsthand in public school and in the military, I’d be willing to try it. I want peace and not war, and while partition can be bloody (i.e. Pakistan), and moving can be perceived as fleeing/retreating, it beats sitting still in the undertow. People saying there can never be a white ethno-state remind me of people saying Trump had no chance to win the election. Anything is possible at this point.

    • The Spencer and Hoffman comparison is apt. For Hoffman, the motivation was hairy, damaged women. For Spencer, strapping young white men in Hilfiger sweaters.

      • If you’ve got a spare moment, do a search for “Richard Spencer PHALANX” and see what comes up.

        The man is, to use the Z-man’s term, a gold-plated phony.

    • * George Lincoln Rockwell. Norman Rockwell was the painter, not the founder of the American Nazi party.

    • I don’t have a strong opinion on Spencer. I don’t know enough about him. He reminds me of most trust funders I’ve known. That’s not a criticism, just an observation. John Derbyshire thinks well of him and Derb does not suffer fools. My hunch is Spencer eventually finds a place as an idea guy while others with better political chops take over as organization guys. But, that’s only a hunch.

      • Maybe it’s because I’m much more familiar with Richard, and his goals, or maybe I’m a poorer judge of people, but I don’t think he’s getting a fair shake in the commentary, tbh.
        I will agree that for the movement to grow and prosper, he can’t be considered the figurehead. But, I also don’t think the movement should have any one figurehead, at this time. There should be many, low level groups, that come together to form the Alt-Right, and these groups themselves can have a leader or multiple leaders, but a free flowing, amorphous group of citizenry that eschews the media, that does their own organization and funding, develops their own political ideologies, outside of any mainstream media or mainstream political movement or think tank or what have you, is the only thing I can see remaining free of co-option and corruption. The minute you let someone in the movement sign up to become a 501(c), or develop your own Alt Right Cato Institute, it’s turtles all the way down.
        But, I do like Richard & think his motives are of a more genuine nature than many others do.

        • I should have added in my comment that I also admire the work Greg Johnson has done. This kerfuffle they are currently embroiled in is very disappointing, inside baseball stuff that is hard to parse. I do not like publicly aired dirty laundry.

  3. Reality is a harsh mistress though, especially in a globalized world. E.g.: if as many say, the average African IQ is 70, then the very best case scenario for that continent is benign, paternal recolonization. That’s a tough pill for us normies to swallow — we know how hard it is to keep *ourselves* in three hots and a cot sometimes; how the hell are we to know what’s best for a billion others an ocean away? (which is also btw why I say today’s SJW is tomorrow’s obergruppenfuhrer — *they* have no problem telling other people how to live; they’d make a fantastic Force Publique).

    • The difference in average IQ and all that comes with that means that it is unlikely the US holds together in its current form. African communities do not look like Hispanic communities do not look like white communities etc.
      In this regard Europe is in a much better position because they are still about 85% white. Its easier for them to expel their invaders compared to the US that is already heavily balkanized, even if in a proto stage of such.

  4. Holy Batman, Zman. Just a couple of posts ago, you wouldn’t talk about Intelligent Design or Creationism except to denigrate, at a very high and superfluous level, the concepts being debated. Now you attack Oath Keepers while not even mentioning the three organizations mentioned on the page your link provided, the purpose of the organization, or the purpose for posting such information for readers of the site.

    You are hurling around a lot of vitriol which smacks of intellectual dishonesty. And your constant harangue about IQ makes me wonder if you would not support a Margaret Sanger type genocide of anyone not possessing an IQ above some arbitrary mark agreed upon by some group of self appointed geniuses (in their own minds at least).

    What’s going on with you?

    • you dont have to cull the low IQ, you just have to keep them far enough away while they cull themselves

      • We don’t need to do something, we need to stop doing something, which is paying retarded teenage girls to have babies with twenty-five year old men, which in one society is prosecuted as rape and in the other is situation normal. Also, bring back orphanages. Seriously.

    • Yeah. Something has him pissed, but still a good read. Sometimes it’s hard to tell what the column is really about. I think the key thing to note here is that he believes there is a distinction to be made between Dissident Right and Alt Right. Perhaps Dissident Right is an umbrella term for all of the right wing that tries to distinguish itself from Conservatism Inc. I don’t read enough of the other sites to know the exact taxonomy that seems to be developing.
      The main thing I would like to see is the tacit agreement among all these groups that they keep their eyes front and know who the real enemy is at all times. Perhaps when these definitions get worked out and the troops know which regiment they all belong to and the dust settles, we can get down to work.

      • Dissident Right is the phrase I use for all of the outsider groups on the Right. The alt-right is the dominant element, but not the only one.

        As far as me being pissed, I’m not seeing it. The Oathkeepers is rather obviously a racket. There’s nothing controversial about me saying it. Who does not know that?

    • I did not denigrate creationists of ID’ers.

      I did not attack Oathkeepers.

      Please, get your facts straight. Just because I do not share your enthusiasm for something does not mean my mentioning it is an attack.

      • Ok, maybe you would not call it “denigrating” to refer to Oath Keepers as a “racket” but in the context of discussing money making in politics and suddenly, out of nowhere Oath Keepers, out of who knows how many such organizations, draws your attention makes me wonder. If I was going to discuss non-profit organizations, one of the first I would think of is the Clinton Foundation, among others and not Oath Keepers. Hell, I prefer Oath Keepers to the RNC any day of the week and they are small fry in comparison.

        It seems you are the one trying to be “edgy” by slamming nationalistic and Christian organizations. It is a well known fact that there has been a war against Christianity going on in this country and around the world.

        So I think you are the one who is using your “bully” pulpit (while touting your IQ) to stifle my comments by claiming I am not the one to have my facts straight. I call BS and stand by my observations of reading your words. But then that is the nice thing about freedom of speech, so, take it or leave it, but don’t tell me I’m full of shit.

        • Remember what Dick Armey did to the Tea Party? His types weaseled in, milking it damm near to death.

          Oath Keepers is OK, more than just OK, damm great in my book,go to war with the army you have, not the one you want.

          • Oath cuckers is a bunch of pussies who will only attack to the right. so fukk them. and as Zman pointed out, they are conmen out for a $.

    • Z’s a diagnostic type, good at seeing design flaws. His unhesitant objectivity is actually quite rare.

      • As was Hayek. “The Road to Serfdom” brilliantly dismantled socialism. The hard part is coming up with viable specific alternatives, which weakened the second half of Hayek’s valuable book.

        • Adam Smith spent years writing a method for applying the principles he had borrowed or discovered, but as his death approached he had his servant collect and burn every last page. It couldn’t be done. Hayek’s contributions were very like Adam Smith’s, in understanding abstract rules of conduct. Order flows from that. “Man cannot foresee his own advance. The socialist mind can conceive of order only as the result of deliberate arrangement, but to extend human cooperation beyond the limits of human awareness requires being governed not by shared purposes, but abstract rules of conduct.” The rest is our problem, and as Orwell and Tocqueville and Hayek observed, each ethnic group–much less each race–is too different to supply the same solution. Which now leaves the US in a deteriorating position.

  5. The Alt-Lite exists for dem shekels. Cernovich used to lecture the Ait-Right in demeaning tones that “you don’t know how to grow a brand.” Fuck their brands. We do this for free with a smile on our faces. Our brand is our race. The pay? A future for White children.

    • Part of Cerno’s brand is being “the world’s leading mindset expert.” All of his mindset crap is based on Carol Dweck’s research on “growth mindset,” which is currently in the process of falling apart like so many other too-goo-to-be-true things in social psychology that don’t replicate.

      Dweck is typically the woman people point to when they say they’re optimistic about the achievement gap being closed. Seriously. However, it’s hard to tell if this is a con on Cerno’s part or not. I lean toward thinking it is, but he also might buy into his own bullshit. Has anyone ever asked him if he thinks the achievement gap can be closed? Because he should if he believes what he writes in his books.

      https://www.buzzfeed.com/tomchivers/what-is-your-mindset?utm_term=.wf7gkGVKe#.ltjJnoDOj

  6. Politics have become a form of entertainment, so much so that movie and tv icons inject themselves into the manufactured controversies to compete for attention. The engine of the deep state rolls on while the carnies joust for air time and the spoils of federal money.

    A full congressional pension is available to someone who is 62 after 5 years of service. Who wouldn’t consider polishing their shtick for a little piece of that self-perpetuating pie.

  7. All aboard the Mindset Patriots Express! Send us five bucks a month and get your Official Mindset Kit today! Rainbow civic nationalism! Whoopee!

  8. If you accept the premises of your final two paragraphs, as I do, then you should eventually come around to adopting my position: in order for the American Republic to continue we must evict California from the Union in the next 8-12 years. The sooner the better.

    Demographic change will give Democrats a permanent lock on the White House by 2028. Democrats will rule by Executive Order, and Congressional Republicans will register only token protests. The supremacy clause will ensure any state-based resistance to Democratic policies are overruled. Obama’s use of Executive Orders was a preview of things to come.

    Evict California and her 55 Electoral College votes and the Republic remains viable for another 50-100 years. It’s not perfect, but it’s the only viable option remaining.

    • I disagree. As soon as the “gib me dats” handouts stop or are interrupted you have will see a “phase change” step up in civil conflict and ethnic politics/cleansing. Its already going on with Hispanics removing black from historic black strong hold such as Compton in CA, its stealth ethnic cleansing and already going on.

      If we accept ZMan’s premise in the last paragraph then intermittent social conflict with some level of ethnic cleansing would be expected to being surging in heavy urban centers as the debt overhang implodes and disrupts various sectors of the economy.

      it will be similar to an avalanche, you know its going to happen but you don’t know when or how much more stress it will take, it could be one more snowflake or 10 more feet.

        • I was thinking Illinois- “debt overhang” combining explosively with “social conflict.”

          Plus, if the Yellowstone caldera blows, that could be a civilization-ending event, Biblical in proportion. I was trying to be cute.

          • PSS- in reply to Guest, not Spongebob, and as one born and living in the Califa:

            I must agree with your demographic prognosis. I see it here on the front lines.

            The Deep State will never let the western ports go. We are their link to the north-south axis of their Cartel middlemen, and now their link to the One Belt and money of the Chinese generals.

            Split us in two, or make us Quebec, please gods don’t abandon us to save the Quisling Party. We’re the Warsaw Ghetto here.

  9. “If you look at the sites and events catering to us, you see lots of young males, which is resulting in lots of young females, because biology.”
    How odd, it’s the other way around with Communist, Socialist, Democrat, new world order parties

  10. “There’s also a “giant among midgets” phenomenon, where someone can be a star in a small group and outgrow their hat. In the mass media age, it’s easy to start thinking you’re a big deal when you see your social media profile grow and the calls from media people start coming.”

    This is one of my pet peeves. I do not denigrate the work various “rightists” do. And I also am ignorant about how you can make money on the internet. But, it seems that “making a living” is a fundamental drive for those that have chosen the internet as their political platform. Let’s use Hitler as an example. Post WWI, he was a penniless loner. However, he was approached by the remaining German military to infiltrate a small group of what was to become the Nationalist Socialist Party. They provided him with an income at that point. As his public persona grew, he became more and more wealthy. His followers present him as a selfless icon for their cause, but the truth is, he became a multi-millionaire because of his usefulness to the elite. Looking at today’s political opportunists on the web, I see a similar phenomenon. People with money see a potential candidate to front their position. A donation to improve and increase their internet presence if they play ball. Eventual disappearance if they don’t. The question to me is “Who is legitimate?” Take Tommy Robinson. He comes across as a genuine yob that really does believe in what he says and does. But, there is some money behind him. Whose money and quo bono?

    This leads into my real point (about time!). In this day and age, why even use people? Do you really need a face if you have a face on line? When will we arrive at virtual entities to represent a position? Since humans are expendable and since they are being replaced by mechanical and digital processes to save money, when will political promotion be reduced to faces that don’t exist in reality? Has it already begun to happen? How many people in the alt-right are being promoted even though they only represent their thoughts and are not the authors of those thoughts? We live in a social reality that is being maintained to hide the reality “behind the curtain”. Yes, that is a cynical view. Is it an incorrect one?

    • I think it is a fair question. I find myself wondering it too. I know what it takes to support yourself. If I can’t figure out how you are supporting yourself, I begin to wonder about it. Spencer is a trust fund guy so he’s easy to unriddle. Others? Not always obvious.

      • Cerno supposedly made a few million off his first wife in their California divorce. He wasn’t even admitted to the Bar until 7 or 8 years out of law school, while she was an attorney with some Silicon Valley firm and cleaned up on stock options.

        Then he got the gorilla mindset.

    • Hitler became wealthy from royalties from the sale of Mein Kamph, and use of his image. When every family in Germany buys a book and and a picture …. the Reichmarks add up.

      • But, that was not the source of his income prior to 1926 and was not his only source of income after that. According to Infogalactic:

        Although Hitler originally wrote this book mostly for the followers of National Socialism, it grew in popularity. He accumulated a tax debt of 405,500 Reichsmark (very roughly in 2015 GPB£1.1 million, €1.4 million, US$1.5 million) from the sale of about 240,000 copies before he became chancellor in 1933 (at which time his debt was waived).
        Hitler had made about 1.2 million Reichsmarks from the income of his book in 1933 (Don’t know if this is true. Wikipedia says “by 1933), when the average annual income of a teacher was about 4,800 Marks. During Hitler’s years in power, the book was given free to every newlywed couple and every soldier fighting at the front.[18] By 1939 the book had sold 5.2 million copies in eleven languages.[19] By the end of the war, about 10 million copies of the book had been sold or distributed in Germany.

        So, while his Mein Kampf royalties could have provided a comfortable living prior to 1933, it would not make him as wealthy as he actually was.

        “While hyperinflation of the Weimar Republic had crippled the German economy and plunged millions of German workers into unemployment, Hitler and his party received lavish donations from wealthy benefactors at home and abroad. The iconic American car maker Henry Ford was reported to be one of the foreign supporters. Helene Bechstein (de), part of a rich aristocratic family who sold pianos, supported Hitler financially and gave him a top hat and business suit. The Ruhr steel barons Fritz Thyssen and Gustav Krupp donated almost five million Reichsmarks to the Nazi Party over the course of the war.”

        “The Berghof, Hitler’s private retreat, was renovated at a massive cost, all of it paid for with Nazi Party donations. Much of the party donations were used to pay off many of Hitler’s private projects, such as the Berghof and Eagles Nest. He caused a minor controversy within leading elements of the party when he, in 1925, purchased a luxury Mercedes-Benz and a chauffeur to drive it for a total expenditure of 20,000 Reichsmarks. After examining Hitler’s tax records from the Bavarian State Archives in Munich, economics journalist Wolfgang Zdral said, “He’s driving a Mercedes, which cost incredible amounts of money at the time, can afford to go on travels and has enough money to finance his propaganda appearances. All of this is financed through a system of slush-funds, essentially the donation of larger and smaller benefactors”.

        “Throughout his rise to power, Hitler neglected to pay taxes on his income and allowances.[9] In 1934, one year after becoming Chancellor, the tax office of Munich sent Hitler a fine of 405,494.00 Reichsmarks for not paying taxes nor properly declaring his income. He was given only eight days to pay off this debt. The new Chancellor responded by ordering a state secretary of the ministry of finance to intervene, which resulted in Hitler becoming tax-free. The head of the Munich tax office declared, “all tax reports delivering substance for a tax obligation by the Führer are annulled from the start. The Führer is therefore tax-exempt”. After the death of President Paul von Hindenburg, Hitler took over his office and claimed his salary as well.”

  11. In our present society of extraordinary affluence, politics rewards dependency on government; and as a consequence, those ranks are growing exponentially. Long term dependency eventually begets parasitic behavior, which is more than just addictive, it destroys one’s capacity to work and produce. A viscous cycle is born. Politicians proactively grow the parasites, who in turn vote for more depraved politicians. Zombie politics is the future.

    • A black swan event is the future. The turkey has no idea what thanksgiving day is until the farmer shows up with an ax instead of a bucket of corn.

  12. “As whites in America come to realize their decreasing numbers, relative to the rest of society, white solidarity will naturally evolve and develop into a political order.”

    Which is why the MSM have worked so tirelessly to keep this information hidden from whites. So far, they are succeeding.

    • At this point, they are only succeeding at keeping the pressure on to inhibit people from speaking out about what they already know. Instead the people quietly and privately pull the voting lever for Trump.

  13. The thing the alt-right has working in their favor is reality. In a multi-racial, multi-ethnic society, people vote their skin. That’s the lesson of history. Humans are tribal and hierarchical. That’s the lesson of biology. As whites in America come to realize their decreasing numbers, relative to the rest of society, white solidarity will naturally evolve and develop into a political order. The exact contours of how this plays out are open for debate, but in the end, Charles Murray was right. Racial politics is the future in the US

    Identity politics means that an ethno state is a very possible outcome, or at least an attempt at one. That cant happen without the US as we currently know it break up, but that is looking more like a real possibility as events progress.
    Identity politics is national suicide in a nation such as the US with no overwhelming majority ethnicity. Whites are only about 65% of the population and the urban centers are heavily minority. As whites begin to embrace identity politics it will force the minorities to double down in an escalating race for influence. The government will generally side with the minorities for a number of reason which will only fuel the attempt at an ethno state. The US is easily on the edge of becoming a South Africa writ large

    • Why will the government generally side with the minorities? I see in the House and Senate a bunch of rich white people, and a few crazy others. The political money behind the scenes is also mostly white. Once the tribal and ethnic divisions become clear and everyone is required to take a side, the lefty rich whites will start to migrate over very quickly. Taking a stand for the minorities is easy when it does not affect you negatively. In a nationwide racial call-out, that easy virtue will swiftly be revisited.

      • Minorities generally have a much higher time preference, meaning that they want results now, they don’t generally make decisions that pay off in 5, 10 , 20 years. From a political standpoint, a minority supporter is more likely to keep you in office.
        Now to get a bit more uncomfortable, blacks and Hispanics ( the major minority groups in the US) are on average more violent and as such the political cost of alienating them is higher than alienating whites that may groan and grumble but don’t violently riot and burn of it. Further more the globalist agenda is partially based on the breaking up of homogeneous ethnic populations in the west and as such support of minority groups is inherently favored as a pillar of the globalist agenda.
        There is little political reason to support native whites in the west at his point for most politicians.

        • I agree with your post, and especially the last sentence, which is the key statement of the whole thing. “At (t)his point…”

          But I think when things shift for the rich whites, it will shift very fast and unexpectedly. Just like the Trump phenomenon, which went from nonexistent to the presidency in roughly one year.

          Rich whitey will understand that the poor minorities will never be satisfied, and only ask for more. Also that the political system is not really designed to save and protect them, when push comes to shove (the political system only protects itself, in the end). They will quickly migrate to the only entity that might save them, which is the rest of the whites. When it starts to happen, it will be a cascade, and it will happen very quickly and dramatically.

          Normalcy bias is a part of not putting a reasonable probability on this play-out of events.

          • But- will Dirt whites believe the Cloud whites this time?

            I might sh**t the first parrot that squawks “But Dick Cheney is a hero!”

          • Probably not. But the cloud whites will be looking for a place to land. They will want to be able to go out of their gated communities once in a while, without absolutely everyone hating them. More edumacated ones know something about the French Revolution and how all that went down. The clouds will try to buy support from anyone who will sell it to them before it is all over. It is all transactional for most of them anyway.

      • It’s the top and bottom against the middle. The bottom really cannot stop the elites (and will not stop them) but the middle class (what’s left of it) can shut them down.

        If they thought for a second Trump would win they would have rigged it harder.

        If they knew Gorsuch was going to actually be a constitutional conservative they would have bumped him off.

        The globalist right and left are two tentacles of the same octopus.

          • Before the Clinton Foundation, there was the Bush Family.

            We could go back to the Revolution on this subject.
            Never, ever, ever trust the Clouds.

          • Clinton Foundation–baseball bat with nails sticking out of it.

            Bush Family–a long shiv hidden in a cane.

            New Cloud money versus old Cloud money. They might work you over differently, but you get worked over either way. And, damn, it’s hard to see that shiv coming after you. You can see the baseball bat a mile off.

  14. Well, actually I am not sure people follow or not follow McInnes because someone once classified him as “alt-lite.” Rather, we all know him because he (1) is entertaining (2) does smth real, too, in addition to writing and posting videos (3) is free of dumb ideological dogmatism some wannabe altrightists believe entitle them to eternal respect and fame. And the stringently alt-right fugures are being evaluated in the very same way. Personally, I read Spencer when he writes about something important to me and does this intelligently and with style, and immediately stop reading when he gets boring and repetitive. There is nothing more to it. I cannot imagine a typical alternative media consumer to use any other criteria, at least not systematically. Going by that rule, even grotesque fugures like Cernovich are occasionally worth positive attention, in spite of his otherwise ridiculous ways (a Jew trying to imitate Aryan macho pastimes and postures is a very sad show, sorry to say). And, say what you want, even an odd traditional conservative often says smth worthy.
    In short, people who spend their time doing an imbecilic triage among dissident right, distilling altright from alt-lite and so forth, make the same sense as a dimwit who would examine family life and art tastes of a cab driver before getting in the car to ride. Those dynosaurs will not inherit the Earth, and justly so.

    • Take what you can from whatever value all these sources offer, then sift it to get some sort of coherent understanding of it all. Nobody has a good claim on being always correct.

      That’s what I like about this site. A whole lot of valuable nuggets to sift and sort.

    • Gavin McInnes is NOT “free of any dumb ideological dogmatism,” despite what you may think you observe. I have met the man several times, and am friendly with a number of his acquaintances. He has this adopted air of one who takes chances, is edgy, but not too edgy, isn’t married to any particular idea, cries, “why can’t we all just get along,” but he is above all else, a guy who makes money. That’s his shtick, getting rich.He’s very good at it, too.

      • OK, let McInnes get rich if he knows how. Donald Trump also managed to become rich. Isn´t that, by any chance, the reason so many, including the really poor devils from the Rust Belt, trusted him enough to let him become president?

        • I didn’t mean to disparage the idea of making money/getting rich.
          In the grand scheme of things I shouldn’t have gotten all triggered by your comment, apologies. My opinions are based on personal dealings and that doesn’t effect others.

  15. The last two paragraphs are the key.
    No one likes Richard Spencer when he suggests a white ethnostate.
    But then you admit humans are tribal, and the only way to resolve that for whites, is, well, with a white ethnostate.
    Just don’t call it that. Or say anything nice about Spencer.

    Even Tom Woods who isn’t exactly a firebrand basically is admitting, sotto voce, that secession must happen. But along which lines? Diversity isn’t a feature of libertarians. I expect his and Bob Murphy’s “Contra Cruise” will be 90% white and at least 70% male. Like the Freestate Project. But don’t tell anyone lest they think libertarians are racist. But I haven’t heard a single Somali who talks about Mises and Rothbard or Bastiat. Nor a Japanese for that matter.

    The ethnostate might allow a few non-whites (are jews or hispanics white?) if they assimilate. Bu tthat is also the crux. Latin Americans are turning their neighborhoods into Latin America. Middle Easterners into the Caliphate. Chinese into less nice versions of Chinatown. They are already mini ethno-states.

  16. Hey Zman, Richard Spencer keep going about a white nation and white identity. Now we all know that whites can’t even agree with politics how would you have a nation based on only white identity, and why would white only identify as whites. I mean Europeans identity is not europeans or whites but their individual groups often in the nations not always. Italians are not the same as Germans as not the same as French. All three are white (not talking about immigrates) but the language, customs, religion, food and history are different. Now if say in america would not be better for say Richard or other alt righters to be pushing for some states to Seceded such as, New Hampshire, Texas or California and develop a unique culture (not saying that Texas doesn’t already have a different culture) on top of race? I mean how many people think say white New Yonkers are the same as say white Texans?

    • Europeans in European countries see themselves as Finns, or Swedes, or Bretons, etc., not as “whites,” nor will they. As for Americans, they will have to rediscover their cultures and mend their deracinated roots that were uprooted after WW2, and as the left promotes their coalition of The Ascendant minority groups, versus The Descendant white majority, (soon to be minority), whites in this country will need to find commonalty in their race, unless they are willing to be replaced, while arguing that their great great grandmother was Italian.

  17. I think you may be stretching the concept of infighting. The alt-right is more or less alone in the dissident camp. The alt-lite started, and will continue, to pick fights with them after the election because they know whites are going to become radicalized sooner or later. Ezra Levant and his many lackeys are merely attempting to slow the inevitable by distracting the gullible with typical appeals to liberalism.

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