Guns and the Prog

A useful way to experience the lunacy of Progressives is to discuss guns with your local lefty. Most people understand that gun control is worthless as a tool to control crime or even reduce gun accidents. The people using guns in crime are by definition not the sort to obey gun laws. Similarly, the people inclined to shoot themselves or friends while playing William Tell will find some way to off themselves, no matter what you do. The only result of gun control is to harass honest citizens exercising their rights as citizens.

The mountain of data in support of liberalized gun laws is beyond dispute. Even if you are not inclined to dig into the details, the fundamental logic is manifest. People who abide by the laws are, by definition, not the sort to break the laws. That means people who break the law are not interested in any new laws you are passing. Therefore, passing gun laws will only inconvenience those who follow the law and do nothing to stop the criminals. At best, gun laws are just a tool of the state to go after the more clever street gangs.

Despite all this, Progressives obsess over gun laws. This story from a few months ago is a good example. The people who support this sort of stuff know nothing about guns, gun culture or gun shows. Yet, they remain convinced that gun shows resemble an arms bizarre in the Middle East, where bearded men buy and sell military gear. Further, they remain convinced that gun shows are exempt from the thousands of gun laws on the books. They are convinced that “gun show loophole” is a real thing.

That’s what makes guns a useful topic for understanding the Prog mind. All of us have had the experience where the Prog friend or relative starts going on about guns. Someone then steps forward to correct all of their errors about guns and gun laws. Then someone gently explains to them the anti-logic at the core of gun control. The Prog will take correction, nod along and seem to understand the material, but then soon after they will be repeating the same gun control slogans they were saying the last time.

It’s tempting to think it is a mental illness and to some degree it is. It’s just the nature of the fanatic. They see only that which confirms the nature of their fanaticism. That simple and seemingly effective conversation you had with the blue haired girl at the office about guns may as well have been in Swahili. As soon as she confronted disconfirmation, her receptors shut down and she went onto autopilot, appearing to comprehend what you were saying, but not really hearing any of it. You were Charlie Brown’s teacher.

It’s why it is an error to think they are stupid or dishonest. Those things may be true, but the reality is, they don’t know they are doing it. It’s as natural to them as blinking is to the living. Gun control has become an obsession with Progs, because they are convinced it harms white people, particularly white men. Again, this is not malice of forethought. It is instinctual as the Prog faith is an explicit rejection of the culture created by western white males. Gun control reminds them of this and it makes them feel good, so they embrace it.

This is why gun control has been a political topic for more than fifty years. G. Gordon Liddy, when he was in the Nixon administration, worked on gun control. That was the early 1970’s. His task was to help craft regulations to get the so-called “Saturday Night Special” off the streets, particularity the streets of DC. That term came into the lexicon via the Gun Control Act of 1968. In other words, like the “gun show loophole”, 1960’s Prog fanatics invented a phrase to market gun control, despite the fact there was no such thing.

That’s what makes the gun issue useful in understanding the Prog mind. Gun control as a social policy has been thoroughly discredited, but that does not dissuade the Left from pushing gun control. It’s why it is pointless to think you can change their mind or get them to reconsider their position. The Prog is beyond the reach of facts and reason. They are the truest of true believers committed to a cause they put above all else. You can no more talk them out of their beliefs than talk a Muslim out of his faith.

This applies to all issues, not just guns. Take a look at this video of Tucker Carlson talking with the neocon nutter, Ralph Peters. The neocons have been wrong about everything with regards to foreign policy. Despite the disastrous results, they continue to advocate for the same polices that have been discredited by reality. At one point, Peters admits to having been wrong about Iraq, but then seamlessly presses the case for repeating the mistake in Syria. It’s as if he tuned out his own admission of failure.

The lesson here is that there’s no point in trying to reason with a fanatic. Whether or not the neocons are the Trotsky wing of the Progs or the Buckleyites is debatable, but there is no debate about their fanaticism with regards to Muslims and the Russians. The endless fake news about Russia and the election is rooted in neocon fanaticism. They are sure Putin is Tsar Alexander III threatening to impose the May Laws on Manhattan. The abject lunacy of it, like the lunacy of gun control, has no effect on the mind of these fanatics.

There’s another lesson here. The NRA has been the one effective organization in the culture wars of the last half century. They do not win every fight, but they have managed to claw back territory after having lost some fights in the 60’s and 70’s. The reason is they avoided party politics and the temptations of political access, They stuck to building majorities in favor of their issues. They win because they transcend Washington politics and build large coalitions in favor of gun rights. Our team can learn a lot from the NRA.

92 thoughts on “Guns and the Prog

  1. Jordan Peterson has a nice term for progs and other secular zealots, the Ideologically possessed.

    Gavin McInnes described that when you corner them and prove how they are wrong, they just double down and keep pushing. See my first sentence for explanation of this.

    • “Mein Kampf” is mostly unreadable, but it has some gems like this one: “The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid. If all this didn’t help, they pretended not to understand, or, if challenged, they changed the subject in a hurry, quoted platitudes which, if you accepted them, they immediately related to entirely different matters, and then, if again attacked, gave ground and pretended not to know exactly what you were talking about. Whenever you tried to attack one of these apostles, your hand closed on a jelly-like slime which divided up and poured through your fingers, but in the next moment collected again. But if you really struck one of these fellows so telling a blow that, observed by the audience, he couldn’t help but agree, and if you believed that this had taken you at least one step forward, your amazement was great the next day. The Jew had not the slightest recollection of the day before, he rattled off his same old nonsense as though nothing at all had happened, and, if indignantly challenged, affected amazement; he couldn’t remember a thing, except that he had proved the correctness of his assertions the previous day. Gradually I began to hate them.”

    • I’ve been arguing with anti-gun lefties for going on 20 years now. If I was being truthful: I would admit that I became a gun owner in large part because I knew it pissed off lefty progressives more than anything else. At least this was true 20 years ago – I suppose there’s other things now that piss them off more. My young(er) more ignorant self thought that just offering up the facts would be enough to persuade ( I assumed people were mis-informed). It didn’t take long to get “educated” as to the mindset illustrated by Zman’s post. It took me a while – but I came around to the position that it’s fruitless to argue against gun control on the facts – and what you should do when engaged with a lefty progressive about guns – is simply find the easiest way to piss them off.

      I’ve gotten to the point where the wife knows I will do this – and warns me ahead of time not to engage people at parties. I have actually made people cry. I’ve also come around to the position that this makes me happy. When I can make a lefty lose their shit, start crying , storm off with a red face – I know I’ve at least injected a little bit of the misery they’ve introduced into my life – right back into theirs.

      Like Zman – and Hitler said: You’re unlikely to change their mind. So my attitude is : go for something else. Piss them off . It’s worth it. And they deserve to be miserable.

      • I think one of the big features of the gun culture is the chance to offend the lefties. Walking into a gun shop or show would be slightly less delicious if it didn’t make them so sad.

      • You are doing God’s work, sir. There is no point in being polite to people who are okay with gelded children and sanctuary cities and colonia of religious fascists from the Middle East or Somalia… and also okay with killing or imprisoning you over an inanimate object that goes bang. These child-gelding vote-rigging freaks are insane. Poke them in it. They have it coming.

      • There is a wonderful quote from the movie Cromwell when Oliver after being told by Charles I that he is “impertinent”, replies, “the issues, Sir, are beyond “good manners””. In reality, the two never met, but it was a wonderful theatrical moment. And yes, I’ve done the same. When you reveal they have no logic in their argument, particularly in front of other people, Progs get really pissed off. One of may favorites when some cites Europe (pre-Hajji invasion) is to tell them “well if you are not black, 13-34, live in the worst parts of about two dozen metros and don’t gangbang, you are about as likely to die in Europe and the US from gun violence”. They will say you are lying, then you simply refer them back to the BoJ statistical abstracts…helpfully published each year by the Dept. of Justice. Then they get stompy feet.

      • I am a forester by trade and like you I used to argue with the environmentalists. I finally realized That the fine points of ecology had nothing to do with environmentalism. It all boiled down to the same thing that all leftist arguments come to: Capitalism is bad and the only solution is a dictatorship of the elites. Damn near every leftist meme ends there.

  2. > Yet, they remain convinced that gun shows resemble an arms bizarre in
    > the Middle East, where bearded men buy and sell military gear.

    Well, other than arms and ordinance they’re right.

  3. Every time I’ve been at a gun show over the years there have been a few young black guys there checking it out enthusiastically, and more than a few young Hispanics. They are completely at home surrounded in this white and white redneck culture and nobody gives them a crossed eye back. It’s the Progs who are truly alien beings.

        • More stupid American meme stuff:
          DR3 = Dems R Real Racists
          Not that I don’t agree with the idea, but believe in simple language that most everyone understands.

          • Hey Ursula, this is an American blog.mid you don’t like the lingo then kindly fuck off

          • Maybe you’d be happier keeping company with the Antifa, who similarly respond to comments they don’t like, Sticky Burr.

          • Hey Sticky Burr, I’m an American exercising free speech thanks to our country’s 1st Amendment. Got a problem with that? Do you have any intelligent argument or just mentally undeveloped vulgarity to offer?

          • AT first I thought you were foreign, there’s a fair amount of them here, but your not one, but two replies clearly demonstrate that you are indeed an American woman. My apologies.

    • I read a Timothy McVeigh biography years ago and an FBI agent who met him at gun shows admitted that no matter how much he tried to steer the conversation to race, trying to entrap McVeigh in some kind of racist RAHOWA banter, McVeigh would just shrug and say his issue was with the wars of the U.S. government and bureau overreach in things like Waco and Ruby Ridge (which a lot of Americans across the political spectrum thought was reasonable). I noticed in the Army that “rednecks” who had confederate flags got along fine with blacks (especially from the South) whereas all the white liberals I met in college had that weird sort of passive-aggressive, uncomfortable fawning attitude around blacks that you see in someone like Rachel Maddow or Hillary Clinton, that vibe of “I love you so much now get the f*ck out of my face, n**ger.”

      • @Joey Junger that’s one of the main reasons blacks on campus are so radicalized. You’ve never seen condescension like 19 year old female SJW condescension. I honestly can’t even blame them — if someone routinely talked about me the way all campus SJWs talk about all blacks, all the time, I’d spend all day every day out in the parking lot, having “discussions” about it.

    • Colin Noir is a popular guy with the NRA and has some pretty good gun videos on Youtube.

  4. Progressive Invertebrates: No critical thinking skills? Blame it on guns. Substance abuse issues? White privilege. Have a useless college degree and will spend the rest of your life working a minimum wage job to pay off the loan? Because transgender bathroom wars. No conflict resolution skills? Find the nearest Trump supporter and have at it with a bike lock. #Bring Back Our Insane Asylums.

  5. I’ve tried hard in the past to get Progs to see sense. Some of them fairly clever people working in higher education, local government and big business. The Kool-Aid has been sipped though and they risk their jobs, reputation and family if they were say some of the things I do. Most of them however are just simply cult followers. Reason, logic and pattern recognition mean nothing to them. So I’ve stopped trying to explain, I simply mock them as if they were talking about cooties or fairies. Why try? Have some fun, they are going to lock us all away forever soon – may as well deserve their wrath.

  6. All of the left’s principle-based arguments, be it on guns, immigration, free speech, etc are ends justify the means tactics who’s goal is to disadvantage their enemies. The left has no principles beyond “win at all costs”.

    The left is particularly disingenuous on the right to bear arms. When the DNC/NAACP/SPLC/etc commit themselves to sweeping through the slums of South Chicago, Baltimore, New Orleans, Los Angeles to end the weekly carnage, I might listen. After all, wouldn’t they be protecting the very people they claim to care so much about? But they don’t do this. Why? One it wouldn’t be popular with their pets; and two should the left push too far and cause CW2 to erupt they want these people armed to kill Whites.

    And that’s what this is about. The names of members of Congress and activist groups who push gun control read as a Bah Mitzvah roster. Until those 300+ million guns are no longer an issue, the tribe’s Soviet Union 2.0 is in jeopardy. But it’s too late. The mask long ago dropped, and Shlomo is tugging at his collar.

    I think the goyim know.

    • Bingo. I read a comment on another blog recently that highlights the issue. The man has a Jewish daughter in law who lives in London. She is currently expecting her first child. She voted for the Muslim mayor of now-non-majority-Brit Londonistan to ‘kick the Tories in the shins.’

      Our enemies are so psychotically fixated on kicking us in the shins they are destroying our civilization.

  7. I don’t think it’s debatable that the neocons are Trotskyites. I think Irving Kristol (the father of the movement and Bill Kristol) has admitted as much. It’s probably anti-Semitic of you or I to point that out, but Jacob Heilbrunn is a Jewish guy who worked for The New York Times, so he could get away with writing a book like “They Knew they were right: The Rise of the Neocons.”

    The thing I don’t understand about the left and gun control is that whenever there’s a crime involving a gun, they say we should outlaw guns and that anyone who doesn’t agree wants children to be shot in Sandy Hook-style massacres. Yet when a Muslim plows a bunch of people with a car or kills children with a nail-bomb, not only shouldn’t we close a couple of our immigration “loopholes,” but the people who helped get Muslims here somehow aren’t desirous of Muslims killing children or hitting people with cars, even though they advocated for the policies that made the murder possible.

    • When the shooter is a non-White – guns are the problem
      When the shooter is White – Whites are the problem
      Hence, Whites with guns are their biggest concern. Shoah 2 Electric Boogaloo incoming.

    • JJ wrote:
      “I don’t think it’s debatable that the neocons are Trotskyites. I think Irving Kristol (the father of the movement and Bill Kristol) has admitted as much. It’s probably anti-Semitic of you or I to point that out, but Jacob Heilbrunn is a Jewish guy who worked for The New York Times, so he could get away with writing a book like “They Knew they were right: The Rise of the Neocons.””

      Oh, yeah. I tried to give a summary of conservatism and neoconservatism from 1950-present day and you would have thought I was a nazi cassock wearing a suicide vest screaming out aloha snackbar. In this case it was pig-ignorant cuckservatives who needed smelling salts and a fainting couch.

      • Roo, “aloha snackbar” may be an old phrase for you, but it has made my cynical day. Thanks for that.

        Also, I ran into Bill Kristol’s disingenuous mass-murdering-loving ass in the pit known as DC once. It was one of the few times I knew I was in the presence of a relentless sociopath. I pity the man’s wife and children. Regardless, seeing him Kathy Griffin-style broken by Trump’s election was the highlight of my 2016.

        • Don’t you think it remarkable that not a single exploding Mohamed has ever attacked a Neocon target?

  8. We lost our guns in Australia to a conservative government in 1997 I think it was. Nothing changed with regards to criminals having guns, only now they act with much more impunity. Melbourne is in the grip of a massive crime wave by Sudanese immigrant children who arrived in 2008. Of course the media refuses to discuss such realities as skin color when reporting on the latest home invasions or carjackings. Police are much more inclined to prosecute people who have defended themselves in their own homes to armed intruders than the intruders themselves. It is beyond belief.

    Recently there was a story of two women in a car being carjacked by a gang of culture enrichers in broad daylight. The news reports stated that the thugs fled when one of the women turned out to be an off-duty police officer. Funny, why would that cause half a dozen thugs to flee? Turns out that she had a gun and just waving it in their faces was enough to turn it around.

    The media refused to report that she had a gun. Defend your guns, guys. Once you lose them, you won’t get them back.

    • In the 1960’s I have heard it told there was a bumper sticker that said, “Mr. Politician: What do you have planned for me that makes you want my guns so badly?”

      When your rights are confiscated, and the excuse is “safety” you are invariably being lied to.

  9. The fanaticism that you describe derives from a perception of existential threat. Parasites need willing or compliant hosts upon which to feed. They understand that the host may eventually tire (or rebel) against being the food supply for the parasites, but if they control government and only the government is armed, then they are OK. An armed host may fight back and rid themselves of the debilitating parasites.

  10. Start making list of “dangerous” products and you find it’s a very long one. Knives, cars, matches, boats, fertilizer, cell phones, knapsacks, staplers, nail clippers, fireplaces…A newborn child is a potentially dangerous product given all the crimes committed by grownups. Why not do background checks on the parents?

  11. Still a pretty good idea to legislate guns kept out of the hands of insane people as a huge portion of mass murderers lately have been obviously crazy or religious (largely Muslim) fanatics, who are probably a p/o legally crazy too. Yet the NRA & several Right Wing nutjob legislatures like in Texas continue to fight for the rights of those who are crazy to carry guns, even legally in public. The NRA will allow nothing that comes between a gun purchaser, batshit crazy or not, & that transaction & they’ve bought most of Congress to ensure it.

    • Thank you for being an example of the sort of fanatic I was describing in my post.

    • So you are saying that I didn’t need to fill out that mental health and criminal background check paperwork to get my FID card? Damn.

      • I’m sorry your freedom has been restricted and you’ve been stigmatized by requiring you to have a “Firearms Owner ID Card”, like a Jew wearing a star in Nazi Germany. Perhaps you should consider moving to a free state, where a peaceable citizen may buy a firearm from a friend without the government being involved.

          • “That would be Whitopia, Vermont. Carry, concealed carry, no permit.”
            And now also in NH and Maine I believe.

          • It’s almost as if the fewer negros you have, the more freedoms you can have.

        • Get the government out of the gun control business entirely. if someone is mentally ill to the point they shouldn’t have weapons (like my neighbor alas) assign them a minder. if they are a repeat chronic criminal problem, cell till they stop, or noose or bullet if the won’t

          Its cheaper, deprives no one of rights without trial, doesn’t punish after the fact and creates much less bureaucracy overall.

  12. I joined the NRA years before I ever bought my first gun. Am something like a patron level lifetime member now– I can’t really remember. Anyhow, things like this get you the ability to sit near the front when they have the big meeting and you get to see the presidential candidates up close and the reactions of the crowd to them. Back when Romney ran in the primary against McCain they both spoke. I think the issue had already been decided, but the timing was before the convention, so both were there.
    I had my first hints that McCain was going to lose big time during those speeches. The crowd was so cold toward McCain and lukewarm in their applause. And then the idiot goes on to use the words “gun show loophole” during his speech. Tone deaf jerk.
    And now he’s had a “minimally invasive craniotomy”. Don’t blame the doctors for seeming to lie. The term applies in any instance where the opening to do the job is smaller than it was in the past and some instruments designed to be used through that smaller opening were used. You can have large cancerous organs removed by minimally invasive techniques. It’s still a big deal. Leave it to the McCain people to be the ones who are misleading people into thinking that this is a nothingburger while Russia is real. Many forget that he suffers from metastatic melanoma which has been in remission for several years. Chances are this bleed has something to do with that.
    My only worry is about who will replace Lindsey’s lover.

    • My only worry was that he wouldn’t die. If that nasty old shit finally kicks off we will have gained a seat in the Senate.

  13. “The NRA has been the one effective organization in the culture wars of the last half century.”

    A friend told me this a few years ago. I’m glad to see you reaffirming this.

  14. I never discuss anything remotely political with the blue haired girl at the office. I need her to not hate me and make sure my meetings are scheduled properly – and I want to interact with HR as little as possible.

    • A couple of years before I quit working for the university mega medical corporation one of the girls in the office started asking me about self defense and the use of firearms for personal protection. Said she was thinking about getting a handgun and wanted my advice on what kind to get. Soon the conversation went to questions about whether I was carrying and what kind. I told her that university property was off limits to firearms and carrying was a fireable offense and that I was not carrying while at work. I went on to try to explain to her what I thought she might want to look at and the advantages and disadvantages of each, and so on. She inexplicably lost interest in the subject entirely, and when I tried to bring it up once more was nonverbally rebuffed. I realized then that she had been put up to entrapping me by the administration and HR. I was going to be made an example of what a bad person was. They probably had the newspaper reporter lined up already.
      Do not discuss with anyone at work what you may or may not be doing for personal protection under any circumstances. No matter how friendly or informal your conversations seem to have been realize that when you go to work, especially if you work for a university, the moment you cross that threshold you are in a left wing totalitarian environment.

      • When you live behind enemy lines, the First Rule of Gun Club is, you don’t talk about Gun Club. Eventually you figure out who is like minded (and isn’t) We have whole sets of rituals to figure that out, safely. Funny story, at my new firm, at the first annual exec management meeting I attended, somehow got an assigned seat for dinner with the guys from a division HQ’d in the midwest that focuses on the agriculture business–basically a bunch of farmers with college degrees. This was right before the election. So there was this weird to and fro on “current events”, until they figured out, despited working in the Wall street HQ, I was actually a former midwesterner, with mostly farmers in my family and we’d all been Republicans since 1856. Everything was cool after that, whiskey flowed and we had a great time.

  15. This is the most frustrating thing about them. They go on (and on and ON) about how much they fucking love science, so you naturally think facts and logic are a good way to refute them. “But look, more guns, less crime! Here are 72 studies, and we didn’t even have to ‘normalize’ the data.” But just as the “best” astrologers in India have middle-class engineers for clients, so liberals can “fucking love science” while ignoring all evidence.

    • @Severian
      We all know by nature the Left is extremely hypocritical. They embrace science with unabashed enthusiasm until you point out Bruce Jenner still has the “frank and beans”. “And what about his science?” Of course from them you get mumbling and stumbling at best. Unless they double down on it. They need a fucking punch in the mouth to bring them down a notch.

      • For the Left, “science” is pretty much just the antonym of “fascism.” If they don’t like it, it’s fascism; if they like it, it’s “science.” That’s how gender is nothing but a social construction, but being “transgendered” is science. Same thing with rioting to shut down speakers in the name of free speech: The speaker — but not the protester! — is “a fascist.”

  16. The NRA is responsible for the gun control laws of the last century and has been dragged kicking and screaming into supporting Heller and other cases that have gone to the ussc recently.

    • GOA, Gun Owners of America, deserves your support. They do more legislatively than the NRA. Wayne LaPierre should be put out to pasture before he gives away the whole store.

  17. “….The Prog is beyond the reach of facts and reason. They are the truest of true believers committed to a cause they put above all else. You can no more talk them out of their beliefs than talk a Muslim out of his faith…..”

    Boy oh boy, is the above statement totally dead on target or what !

    I once had a “conversation” with a grown man, a voter, a NYC Manhattan resident of about 55 years of age. He told me how Bush, Cheney and the Israeli Mossad took down the World Trade Center on 9-11. He was totally serious and convinced of the validity of his view.

    In my stupidity, I tried to reason with this moron but frankly, it was hopeless. As soon as I would point out a flaw in his thesis, he just switched topics, as in “well, what about those Klingons hanging onto your anus.”
    OK, he didn’t say that, but his arguments were less rational than that.

    There is absolutely no sense in even talking to these liberal progressive idiots; their ideology is a deeply held religious belief that cannot be dislodged. Don’t even bother.

    You will have better luck speaking to that dead mouse squashed on that mouse trap you placed in your garage.

    • The Official Version of 9/11 goes something like this…

      Directed by a beardy-guy from a cave in Afghanistan, ( This well appointed Suite http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/nether_fictoid3.htm according to the London Times): nineteen hard-drinking, coke-snorting, devout Muslims enjoy lap dances before their mission to meet Allah…

      Using nothing more than craft knifes, they overpower cabin crew, passengers and pilots on four planes…

      And hangover or not, they manage to give the world’s most sophisticated air defense system the slip…

      Unfazed by leaving their “How to Fly a Passenger Jet” guide in the car at the airport, they master the controls in no-time and score direct hits on two towers, causing THREE to collapse completely…

      Our masterminds even manage to overpower the odd law of physics or two… and the world watches in awe as steel-framed buildings fall symmetrically – through their own mass – at free-fall speed, for the first time in history.

      Despite all their dastardly cunning, they stupidly give their identity away by using explosion-proof passports, which survive the fireball undamaged and fall to the ground… only to be discovered by the incredible crime-fighting sleuths at the FBI…

      …Meanwhile down in Washington…

      Hani Hanjour, having previously flunked 2-man Cessna flying school, gets carried away with all the success of the day and suddenly finds incredible abilities behind the controls of a Boeing…

      Instead of flying straight down into the large roof area of the Pentagon, he decides to show off a little…

      Executing an incredible 270 degree downward spiral, he levels off to hit the low facade of the world’s most heavily defended building…

      …all without a single shot being fired…. or ruining the nicely mowed lawn… and all at a speed just too fast to capture on video…

      …Later, in the skies above Pennsylvania…

      So desperate to talk to loved ones before their death, some passengers use sheer willpower to connect mobile calls that otherwise would not be possible until several years later…

      And following a heroic attempt by some to retake control of Flight 93, it crashes into a Shankesville field leaving no trace of engines, fuselage or occupants… except for the standard issue Muslim terrorists bandana…

      …Further south in Florida…

      President Bush, our brave Commander-in-Chief continues to read “My Pet Goat” to a class full of primary school children… shrugging off the obvious possibility that his life could be in imminent danger…

      …In New York…

      World Trade Center leaseholder Larry Silverstein blesses his own foresight in insuring the buildings against terrorist attack only six weeks previously…

      While back in Washington, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz shake their heads in disbelief at their own luck in getting the ‘New Pearl Harbor’ catalyzing event they so desired to pursue their agenda of world domination…

      And finally, not to be disturbed too much by reports of their own deaths, at least seven of our nineteen suicide hijackers turn up alive and kicking in mainstream media reports…

      And If you don’t believe this, you are a conspiracy theorist.

    • The problem with attempting to combat another’s worldview is that you are not fighting an individual. You are fighting decades of teaching, parenting, and the go-along-to-get-along survival mechanism. The moment you start cracking through their armor of idiocy, the poor dolts have a micro-second realization that their lives are naked ugly lies. That glimpse of reality is what drives most of them, inevitably, into an even more recalcitrant position. Doing otherwise would mean biting the hand that feeds and the fist that controls. This last election showed that merely voting for the wrong candidate is grounds for divorce. How many children will be told their daddy is no better than a blood-soaked stormtrooper because he had the, however vain, hope that taxes could be reduced?

  18. “They are the truest of true believers committed to a cause they put above all else. You can no more talk them out of their beliefs than talk a Muslim out of his faith.”

    That is the key point, isn’t it? Its a faith, either a religion in the making or something like Buddhism or Confucianism, a philosophy without a specific godhead.

    “The endless fake news about Russia and the election is rooted in neocon fanaticism.”

    I don’t disagree with your greater point about fanaticism but I’m not so sure that the current Russia hysteria is about anything more than this being all they know. The neocons now, Jewish or otherwise, spent their formative years planning on existing in the endless co-dominium of the Cold War. Then it all fell apart and since then they’ve been looking a hook to hang on. Russia is something comfortable for them; its basically like Al Bundy’s four touchdowns in a single game.

    “They are sure Putin is Tsar Alexander III threatening to impose the May Laws on Manhattan.”

    Ever since Steve Sailer made this point, it makes the rounds in discussions but its always struck me as giving too much credit for historical thinking to the elite. None of the people crying out over Russia are historically literate. I doubt that any one of them is worried that the clock might strike 1881 and Cossacks will suddenly appear over the horizon.

    • I think John Derbyshire was the first to make the Cossack connection. Paul Gottfried has argued that some portion of Eastern European Jews came to American in the early 20th century with a near obsession for this stuff. When you examine the roster of neocon nutters, it is striking that almost all of them have their family roots in the old Russian Empire.

      Regardless, it is a fun taunt.

      • MAYBE THAT’S BECAUSE THE OLD RUSSIAN EMPIRE COVERED A GREAT DEAL OF THE CONTINENT OF EUROPE AND WESTERN ASIA.(sorry for the caps, lock was on). And their hysteria was actually grounded in fact and personal experiences.

      • There were about two million of the Talmud parsers imported between 1880-1920.
        From that point onward there was an ever increasing loss of English common law and ever greater regulation where we are not at the point where that which is not mandated is prohibited, people commit three federal offenses a day and you can be find for not celebrating two sodomites shacking up.

    • “The neocons now, Jewish or otherwise…” Nice touch.

      After Trump Tomahawked Syria, Hasbara propagandists invaded the Breitbart comments. Their goal? Convince burger conservatives that a war with Russia is dandy idea, up to, and including a full nuclear war. (((They))) disguised themselves as jingoist, unthinking “Merika F Ya! Finally we’re back!” types. When I asked them why they weren’t willing to use their own 200 nuclear weapons if Russia posed such an existential threat to the tribe they stopped talking. Our $4B/year in shabbos shekels should buy better lies.

  19. This is one fundamental difference I have noticed between libtards and conservatives. The left promotes ideology but they NEVER step back to evaluate whether it worked or not. If it didn’t work, and mind you, it did, you just need to tweak it and throw more money at it. The fundamental concept is ALWAYS correct, you just need get to rid of those bigots that oppose the change, since they’re all racists and on the wrong side of history. Conservatives may not admit they were wrong, but they withdraw from the debate when they are. Then 20 years later some conservative writes about how they were wrong.

  20. >> There’s another lesson here. The NRA has been the one effective organization in the culture wars of the last half century. They do not win every fight, but they have managed to claw back territory after having lost some fights in the 60’s and 70’s. The reason is they avoided party politics and the temptations of political access, They stuck to building majorities in favor of their issues. They win because they transcend Washington politics and build large coalitions in favor of gun rights. Our team can learn a lot from the NRA.

    I would argue that pro-life organizations have been pretty effective on the legislative front, but their legislative successes have been overturned by the court system.

    Perhaps the less for our team is that advocacy groups need to be focused like a laser on a single issue, rather than a shotgun-based approach.

  21. “The lesson here is that there’s no point in trying to reason with a fanatic.”
    The “fanatics” Z talks about are the kind of fanatics who have been responsible for millions of people dying exactly because they where successful in disarming the population.
    The way I see it, you don’t argue with them when they come for my guns, you shoot them with your property, because my guns are my property, thats the first thing. Both my property, and that property of my guns are explicit in that regards, they are both integral to my liberty, and for defending my liberty.

    https://mtntopforge.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/instrument-of-the-whole-armor-of-god-motw.gif?w=656

  22. So, what are the keys to the NRA’s effectiveness that could be taken up by other organizations on the right for use in other areas_? Our esteemed proprietor posits that ‘they focus on one issue only and ignore the seductions of any particular politician and party politics’. Sounds right, for whatever little my opinion is worth.

    One could add National Right to Life et al to the very short list of organizations who have reasonably held the line on public opinion, I think, and for the same basic reasons: They focus on their one issue only, they identify who their _individual_ political friends are, they try to help them but they keep whichever party that particular pol belongs to at arm’s length. Also, they know who their _individual_ political enemies are and try to punish them, where possible, again, keeping the opposition party at arm’s length.

    You can contrast this with The Moral Majority et al who tried to work within the Institutional Republican Party and were seduced and abandoned, so to speak, by a bunch of Bush Era Neocon slimesters who said among themselves, ‘where else do these suckers have to go_?’.

    So, _individual_ politicians have to seek NRA’s endorsement (not to mention contributions) and NRA doesn’t have to beg for crumbs from the state and national platform committees. No wonder the ‘chattering classes’ despise ‘single issue politics’: Makes them have to actually deliver results.

  23. The largest category of gun deaths is suicide. Most of the rest is black-on-black inner city street crime. Gun deaths outside if those two categories are practically nonexistent.

    Suicides and black-on-black street crimes will continue, if it takes ropes and rocks to commit them. Which means that the entire issue, in the real world, is a contrived one. But then, the Libs don’t live in the real world and most of their “issues” are contrivances.

  24. I think there are two keys to the NRA’s success:

    1. They have one, and only one issue. They are practically religious in their position on the issue.

    2. They are non partisan. If a democrat is right on guns, the NRA gives them the same glowing endorsement they give a republican.

    Those two things combine to provide reliable political capital to politicians who take the right position on guns, and they also work to prevent entryism and convergence.

    The cleanest counterpart on the alt-right I think would be immigration. Endorse candidates who vote against illegal immigration and especially those who want to limit/reduce legal immigration. Create a group that sticks to this one issue and nothing else. And be completely non-partisan, endorse everyone the same if they take the right stance.

  25. Right now I’m at Walmart purchasing a new Marlin 336w waiting for the gun loophole background check to complete. No kidding!

  26. Belonged to the NRA for many years. ( it was a requirement for joining any of the local Sportsmen’s clubs )

    Sadly the NRA didn’t have much interest in representing the firearm owners of Massachusetts. Not surprising really with Ted Kennedy and his ilk.

    Fortunately in recent years groups like G.O.A.L. and Comm2A have been mildly effective in challenging the draconian firearms laws of Massachusetts.

    Will most likely join the NRA again sometime in the future. ( signing up to another club )

    Just wish they would end in their incessant begging. Don’t care for their cheap trinkets. Just defend the Second Amendment and don’t be a sell-out.

    • Early in the ‘O’ years I sent my $35 or so to support the mission. As the year passed it seemed like they thought I needed to buy all sorts of products with the magic three letters including many offers for insurance. I could have heated the house with all of the worthless paper. When I failed to re-up the phone calls started. 5 years on they still pester me once a month. It is very difficult to become a non-member, but I will endeavor to persevere as The Chief said.

  27. The Progressive Agenda long term is genocidal. It could be Black folks (c.f Margret Sanger) Whites (c.f the current lot) Kulaks or whoever is in the way at the time but a lot of somebodies have to die for utopia

    A well armed population makes that a lot harder

    Thus the necessity for gun control

  28. I remember the anti-gun debates from the 70’s onward. It boiled down to this: The Left did not like whites owning guns and having the ability to defend themselves. They did not care that criminals would always have guns, they didn’t care(prior to three strikes) that those committing crimes with a gun were given very lenient sentences.

    BTW the gun grabbers were the same one who opposed three strikes as well.

    The Left really has no regard for human life outside of leveraging it for political purposes.

    Take the case of Tookie Wiliams who was the founder of the Crypts and and went on a murder spree and ended up on Death Row. He was a Hollywood and Lefty darling who tried everything to keep him from being executed. His supporters cared nothing for the people he killed at. To them it was all about Tookie.

    The impression I get of white Lefties is that they really, really are into control of lower class whites whom they don’t like at all. And the very notion of them having the ability to resist the Left drives them insane. They won’t come out and say this but it’s implicit in their actions/policies.and behaviors.

    • Rod, you can transport us all back to the wonderful 60s and 70s if you master the ritual denunciations of the “petty bourgeois”, apparently the worst people in the world. After all, David Brooks insists that specific words matter a lot and we all have to signal our belonging by using the right ones.

    • The John and Ken Show (640AM Los Angeles) featured a “Tookie Must Die (For Killing 4 Innocent People) Hour” on their show in the lead up to the execution to countersignal the left. This culminated with a live broadcast outside the prison on Tookie’s special night. In attendance was Mike “BJ Hunnicutt” Ferrell, who was holding a vigil. John and Ken asking Marxist Mike how he felt about the four people Tookie murdered. Ferrell was rendered speechless, and knew none of their names.

      FYI – During the Nicaraguan cilvil war, Ferrell would fly in to render medical aid to Sandinesta communist guerrillas injured in fighting. Ferrell has no formal medical training. In the feely/signally world of the left, pretending to be a doctor on television is equivalent to doing the hard work to become a doctor.

      • Ah, Mike Ferrell, the pacifist hypocrite. I remember him being interviewed on TV in the 1990’s when then President’s Clinton decided to send US troops into Somalia to protect the food shipments. He said he was good with it, since it was going to take good guys with bigger guns to deal with bad guys with guns. Too bad he never thought the same way how the UN/US saved SK from NK and the Red Chinese in the Korea war, when he was playing the snobbish cool MASH doctor constantly criticizing why they were there, and showing so much empathy for captured communist prisoners who would have killed him and everyone else if given the chance.

        I wonder what he thought, if he even bothered, of Clinton’s decision to change the US mission from protecting the food shipments to having US special forces kidnap the Somalia warlords in Mogadishu to force them to sue for peace. Progs have no problem using force when they think they have the high moral ground.

  29. Gunphobia is just an extension of the Prog superstitious mindset. They are so into Freudian motivations, since they rely so much on feelings than thinking, that they project that the gun has its own ego, to sway anyone near it to pick it up and shoot anyone nearby.

    I believe they are so afraid of their own perverse feelings, already manifest in their anything goes sexual lifestyle, that they harbor within themselves the dark desire take a gun and shoot someone, just to sadistically experience what it would be like— a new sensation, however dark. Since they fear themselves for not having self-control, as evident by their libertine lifestyles., they want Big Daddy government to take the temptation away, so they will not be seduced. This plays into the hands of their leaders, who want a monopoly of force by removing guns from citizens.You can bet those who encourage the useful idiots under them are well armed in their own homes, or at least by personal bodyguards.

  30. Gun control as a policy debate ended in the late 1990’s when Wayne LaPierre correctly stated that the Clintons and the Democrats were more than willing to tolerate a certain level of gun violence in order to advance their gun control objectives. That was it. That was the end of really any serious political threats to gun owners in this country. Since that time, the Courts have taken it even further, striking down a lot of the gun bans in existence (such as the one in D.C.). “Gun Control” today is a fundraising trigger, and in primaries and off-year elections, it can bring out the base to support an incumbent and raise money. That’s about it.

    Sometimes we on the right side of the spectrum think we never win anything. The Progs always seem to win. We won on gun control in a rout. John Kerry famously spent the 2004 presidential campaign target shooting. I believe Hillary Clinton did the same at some point or other. It is the Progs 3rd Rail of politics.

  31. Faith in the Second Amendment is misplaced.

    Think about it: The Amendment WITH the wording “shall not be infringed” is the MOST infringed, licensed, and limited Amendment of the entire twenty seven. Furthermore, a future generation of our posterity is likely to see the Second Amendment whittled away entirely or repealed altogether. This is inherent nature and danger of optional Enlightenment rights versus non-optional Biblical responsibilities, such as the following:

    “Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged sword [or today’s equivalent in their hand; to execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people; to bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; to execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye Yah.” (Psalm 149:6-9)

    “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house [including spiritual and physical protection], he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.” (1 Timothy 5:8)

    For more, listen to “The Second Amendment: A Knife in a Gunfight,” delivered at the Springfield, Missouri Firearms and Freedom Symposium, at http://www.bibleversusconstitution.com/#FeaturedMessages.

    At this same location, you will also find a radio interview Larry Pratt (Executive Director of Gun Owners of America) conducted with me on this same subject. I think you’ll find Mr. Pratt’s remarks especially
    interesting.

    If you prefer to read, see our blog article “The Second Amendment is Doomed” at http://www.constitutionmythbusters.org/the-second-amendment-is-doomed/.

  32. a truism forgotten, maybe never learned:

    “those who beat their weapons into plowshares will plow for those who don’t.” T. Jefferson

    true then, true now, true forever. dismiss it at your own peril.

  33. “gun laws are just a tool of the state” You can take “gun” out of that string and it applies to every facet of modern life in the US.

    Find and replace “Prog/Progs” with “female/females” and it reads exactly the same.

  34. Your praise of the NRA is going to make a lot of people mad. For some reason, because the NRA hasn’t been perfect throughout its existence, people the alt-right often hate it. Funny, these were the same people who dismissed Trump’s left wing imperfections in favor of the few things he said right.

  35. The other reason the NRA is effective is that they fight – hard – on every issue no matter how small it may be or how irrelevant to members. Teflon coated bullets are a good example of this.

    They understand that leftists regard every win, no matter how big or small, as a stepping stone to the next win and they make those stepping stones hard to get.

  36. I view gun control as a urban vs rural issue with a heaping helping of narcissism thrown in. “Why would anyone need a gun?” says the typical big city prog. Why, police are everywhere and they are relatively responsive. Sure some criminals have guns but they mostly use them on each other and the cops, it doesn’t really affect me. What’s the big issue with restricting guns to a law enforcement priesthood? It seems to work just fine here in the big city I live in.

    To a large degree, what you’re hearing is someone advocating for the interests of the place they live in, and want to impose those interests on everyone else.

    At least your typical rural dweller just wants to be left alone, unless it has been made impossible to do.

    In any case, it seems that the interests of the cities and the interests of the rural areas are now diametrically opposed to each other and nobody seems motivated to compromise too much over things anymore.

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