The Nazi Tar Baby

35 years ago, or so, I sat in history class, as one of my coevals told Father O’Connell that Hitler must have been a liberal because he was a socialist. The old man smiled and said, “Then that would mean Teddy Roosevelt was an actual moose.” It took a minute, but eventually we got the joke and laughed. You can call yourself a leprechaun, but that does not make you a leprechaun. It simply means you are a liar or a lunatic. Politics, and therefore politicians, come in both categories, often simultaneously.

Where to put fascism, especially Nazism, on the political spectrum is a big topic due to the use of Nazi iconography by some dissident movements and the publication of Dinesh D’Souza’s book that claims Hitler was Nancy Pelosi’s grandfather. It’s also important because our Prog masters are making the claim that any resistance to their nation wrecking program is automatically fascism. Everyone is now required to have an opinion about a political movement that stopped being relevant close to 80 years ago.

The first thing to note is that relying on a two-dimensional political spectrum cooked up by 18th century French radicals is not a good way to understand the world. Even the updated Cold War version that places internationalism at one end and nationalism at the other is of little value to our current age. Embracing the ahistorical Progressives worldview that insists history started when American Progressives synthesized their brand of universalism with Cultural Marxism is equally foolish. It leads to nothing but error.

There’s also the problem with the fact that there are no Nazis or fascists today. These movements were outliers that existed in the narrow space book-ended by the Great War on one end and the Second World War on the other. The late historian Ernst Nolte argued that fascism, broadly defined, was a reaction to the violence and mayhem created by the Russian Revolution and the spread of Bolshevism.  It should be noted that Bolshevism was also an outlier movement that has long since died off.

This is a point that Paul Gottfied makes in his book on the history of fascism as a political concept. Note the difference between concept and ideology. An ideology has a tight, well defined set of rules, while a concept is amorphous and changing. Progressive took the dead ideology of fascism and turned into a political concept to include the set of people who oppose the Progressive project. As the opposition adjusted, the definition adjusted to meet the new threat. As a result, fascism is as meaningless as it is non-existent.

Any effort to connect modern political movements to fascism, therefore, is nothing more than rhetoric or cynicism. The conditions in which both fascism and Bolshevism were born no longer exist and are unlikely to exist again. To Western Europeans of the age, the excesses of communism were frightening. It’s eastern origins appeared sinister. The ad-hoc and incoherent response called fascism, to what appeared to many people as a foreign conspiracy to bring down the West, was, in context, quite sensible.

Putting fascism on the “right” end of your antiquated political scale probably makes sense, as it was opposed to what is on the “left” end of that scale. That means, of course, you are embracing a base assumption of Progressives. They argue, as a matter of core morality, that all opposition to them is reactionary and incoherent. Therefore, nothing on the Right can exist in isolation. It can only exists in opposition to the Left. In that regard, they are correct about fascism. It was a devil with an expiry date that has long past.

A more reasonable argument, with regards to fascism and the Western Right, is that fascism was a rearguard action. It was a final last desperate gasp of the old culture before it was destroyed by liberalism. Fascism therefore is a grab bag of items from the ancien regime, bolted onto some modern industrial economics and sold to the public with modern public relations techniques. That would put fascism on the Right, but only when it is defined on a spectrum that has not had relevance for close to a century now.

The fact is, debating the place of fascism and the relevance of Nazism to our current age is a pointless waste of time. It lets grifters like Dinesh D’Souza peddle books to well-meaning normies and it lets internet pranksters generate some laughs, but otherwise, fascism, as a political force, has no relevance in our age. It’s as salient as free silver or calls to restore the king of France. There will always be people clinging to the detritus of past failures, but there are people that believe they are space aliens too.

The great divide today is not over economics. It is biological. The cultural struggle that is developing, therefore, will be how our people will thrive in a world of modern challenges and modern threats. What will drive politics in the West, in the coming decades, is what Steve Sailer calls the world’s most important graph. How to survive as a people in a world dominated by races unable to escape the neolithic without white people, is not something contemplated by Bolsheviks or fascists. Therefore, they offer us nothing of use today.

The debate itself underscores the fact that we are at the end of a cultural cycle, one born in the Great War, defined by the Second World War and formalized during the Cold War. Modernism as a cultural force has come to an end. Those in charge of the brittle husk that is the prevailing orthodoxy keep reaching into their past for villains to maintain support among the faithful. Those in opposition find themselves without fully formed alternatives in the present, so they are rummaging around in the past for whatever they can find.

Regardless, the place of fascism on the political spectrum then or now is as irrelevant as the spectrum itself. The arguments putting the fascists on the Right only make sense in the context of the long gone era in which they were born. Putting them on the Left only makes sense in the context of the dying era, if you are hoping to squeeze a few more bucks out of the Baby Boomer generation. Hitler is irrelevant to the current age and will have no more bearing on what comes next than Genghis Khan or Henry VIII.

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132 Comments on "The Nazi Tar Baby"

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Thorsted
Guest

You mention Paul Gottfrieds book “Fascism: The Career of a Concept”. Tom Woods has a 45.min interview with him here about the misuse of fascism; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sshvHgcOnVg&t=2019s

Member

Two things: I think John Lukacs said something like “We’re all fascists now” somewhere along the line, meaning that bits and pieces of what made up fascism can be found in any system.

Also that clear lines of demarcation can be difficult to maintain in political analysis. I’ve felt for some time that the Jacobins in France were basically right wing, and I’ve finally found an historian that agreed with me. Gwynne Lewis in The French Revolution, Rethinking the Debate published in 2004.

Anonymous White Male
Guest

Better, Zman. Your writings since the Amren conference have evinced a feistiness I didn’t see before. You tended to write in academic mode, I thought, but now you are letting it rip. Is that just my imagination or have you reached a new plateau in your writing career?

Bunny
Guest
Whatever points you have to make regarding fascism-which might include corporatism, authoritarianism and notions of racial superiority, which are still alive today in different forms, ding ding- I really don’t think the “world’s most important graph” is the problem. It is whites who have gone off the deep end, having rejected God. It is whites who have turned their back on their heritage, embraced post-modernity with its nihilism, materialism and perversions, grown cold in love, destroyed the family, twisted the concept of science and then what is left of it directed to evil aims, thrown away transcendence and ideals of… Read more »
guest
Guest

The questions facing mankind are caused by advances in transportation and food production which are challenging historic demographics. there’s no putting that back how it was, and there is no sense blaming Chad and Stacey who did nothing to cause it.

Guest
Guest

Peter Turchin would argue that there IS a putting things back, but only catastrophically

Rod1963
Guest

The problem remains until we are able to deal with the elites who pushed it on us, it doesn’t matter what Sailer stated.

Because that’s dealing with the symptom not the origin of it. Until we confront and deal with the cloud people and the global business elites who perpetrated this horror upon us. The ethnic issue will just get worse.

As to how we stop these people, it really depends.

Bunny
Guest

Aren’t those advances good things? Are we really so Darwinian we want people to die of starvation? I don’t blame Chad and Stacey, I am Chad and Stacey.

Member

So the answer to our problems is to simply believe in Christ? Gee, I wonder what happened to 30 million Russian Orthodox Christians under Stalin? Did they simply stop believing?

Bunny
Guest

“But if I were asked today to formulate as concisely as possible the main cause of the ruinous Revolution that swallowed up some sixty million of our people, I could not put it more accurately than to repeat: Men have forgotten God; that’s why all this has happened. ”
Alexander Solzhenitsyn, “Men Have Forgotten God,” The Templeton Address (1983).
http://www.theimaginativeconservative.org/2012/12/men-have-forgotten-god.html

Member

Oh, gee. I guess that is how 600,000 Christians died in our Civil War. They forgot about Christ. Doubtless that is also why 30 million Christian soldiers died in WWI. They also forgot about Christ. And that eight million who were ground to dust in the Thirty Years War…yep, they forgot about Christ, too. Keep it up, Bunny. You just keep getting more and more ridiculous.

Bunny
Guest

You ain’t got nothing’ on Solzhenitsyn, Epaminondas.

YIH
Guest

White supremacy is real. Name an invention that has advanced human existence, such as the printing press or aircraft and Whites made them possible. Another example is courtesy of Steve Sailer:
http://www.unz.com/isteve/little-baltimore-will-have-more-murders-than-giant-new-york-in-2017/
The Baltimore Sun reports that for the first time Baltimore, with a population of less than 620,000, could record more murders in a single year than New York, which has a population of 8.5 million.
As of Sept. 3, Baltimore has recorded 238 homicides, while New York City has seen 182 murders.
It ain’t called ”Bodymore” for nothin’ dont’cha know.

Member

I’ve been asking for years: show me the evidence that whites are not supreme.

When the spluttering starts I start on the 95% of modern life that were invented by whites (men of course).
My favorite is to point out that the modern tampon was invented by a white man.

Sam J.
Guest

If White people are supreme then why are we losing our countries? I reject this label as inaccurate.

Buckaroo Banzai
Guest

The answer of course, is Jewish subversion of the white race.

Member

Just like the axiom that generals are always fighting the last war, we have the same with our political leaders and strategists.
Some event or movement will blindside side them, maybe Trump’s blitzkreig was the start.

Observer
Guest

This analysis is great but more complicated than it needs to be.
Those of us woke to the JQ can even more simply define what fascism means today.
Fascism is shorthand for white people doing things that they were not specifically instructed to do by Jews.
Studying racial differences? Fascism. Enforcing borders? Fascism. Prioritizing US economic interests? Fascism.
Protest against being demographically replaced? Fascism.
No historical or economic research needed. Just ask: Are white people doing it? And: Were they told to do it by the (((Universities))) & (((press)))?
If your answers are Yes & No, then its fascism.

Joey Junger
Guest

Almost all of my professors were Jews, and they were always screaming about Trump’s fascism. For these people a fascist is anyone who’s taken a parking space they had their eyes on. It’s just a tourettes-like snipe that comes as naturally to Jews as blinking does to a normal person.

A Texan
Guest

Some not insignificant number of the Jews voted for Trump. Starting with my mother, one brother, two uncles, myself and my (Mexican-born, Jewish) wife (yeah, Hillary went 0-for-3 with her, and that is a source of GREAT pride to me), and continuing with at least 40% of the voting-age members of my synogogue.

Don’t let your innate ignorance and hatred cause you to ignore facts.

John
Guest
The problem is not whether you and your kin voted for Trump. The problem is what you, the concepts in your religion, and kin have done to freedom and my country. The Federal Reserve Board was created by Paul Warberg, a jew (under the auspices of the Rothschild banking group). The gun control act of 1968 was created by Emmanual Cellar, a jew. Obama care was designed by a jew. You and yours are no smarter or better than my kith and kin yet we nurture freedom and yours destroy it. It is sad that powers within your religion have… Read more »
Matt
Guest

One of your best pieces ever. Thank you.

Exurban
Guest
Regardless, the place of fascism on the political spectrum then or now is as irreverent as the spectrum itself. I think you mean irrelevant. As a young person in the 1970s I read works by Marx, Lenin, and a large part of Mein Kampf. It was too much of a struggle to finish, pun intended, but I did learn that Hitler loathed traditional authority, the aristocracy, the church, et cetera. He was in no sense a man of the right. I wish this stuff was as irrelevant as you posit it to be, but unfortunately a lot of the modern… Read more »
Member

Not real big on WWII history, but I think you may be wrong about the Ukrainians. Didn’t a bunch of them join in the offensive against USSR?

Rube Goldberg
Member

Not really, there was one SS waffen division that incorporated Ukrainian “resistors” In 1943, a Ukrainian SS unit was formed, which later became a part of the Waffen-SS as the SS Division “Galizien” and then the 14. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS

Member

So how many Polish divisions were the Germans able to raise?

Eclectic Esoteric
Guest
Hurricane Progressive Windbag chainsaws its way across the nation, leaving a pile of rubble in its wake, mostly in inner cities. It has one job – annihilation. The dirt people will go about the task of rebuilding a sane country with realistic expectations for normal people. The house of cards pasted together with the spittle of SJW’s has already collapsed. MSM and left-wing Hollywood has been ghosted by the public, but still doesn’t know it. We’re in charge now, but that’s ok. All the snowflakes really want to do is go back to their mom’s basement. The LARP’s over, they’re… Read more »
Name
Guest

If you’re alluding to that the “Vox Day tantrum” thing, bear in mind that we all get it, people who LARPed as Nazis and shit were covert agents, Charlottesville was a trap.
We just need three things now:
1. Retake White Countries for White people only
2. Implement the American System of Economics in every country
3. Remove Jews from positions of power.

Spud Boy
Guest

This is why the Alt-Right are called Nazis. Idiot posters like you who blame everything on the Joooooooooooooooz!!!!!!

Member

Not quite. Margaret Sanger was a Nazi (in word, deed, and spirtit).
Her statue is in the Smithsonian.
Her temples slaughter over 300 each day in the USA.
Meanwhile, the “tar baby” says anyone who supports Trump is a KKK-Nazi.

Member
So go make a placard saying Margaret Sanger was a Nazi and parade around town with it and see if it changes anyone’s mind. The effectiveness of words is not in the words themselves. It is how they affect the mind. A matter of conditioning. Imprinting, if you will. The incantation must be said in just the right way at the appropriate time. Why do you think the Roman auspices lasted so long? Look at how particular they were about them. Maybe if you join the college of augurs, like Cicero, you can get your head and hands nailed over… Read more »
Dutch
Guest

The Left is just about done beating the “fascist” thing into the ground. I suspect that most people under, say, 30 years old, couldn’t define any elements of fascism if their lives depended on it. “Fascists” are just those wrong-headed Trumpy white males who are racist and sexist and would like to see people dead.

Member
I hope you’re right. Words can kill. When my dad was a missionary doctor he saw people die simply because a witch doctor put a curse on them. They would have nothing physically wrong and would die anyway. This happens to people and institutions today. I learned last night that some guys at a very conservative institution of higher learning had been texting each other thinking about forming a sort of alt-right club on campus. They were infiltrated by a libertarian (by the way, it is usually not a leftist that will subvert a conservative group on your campus, but… Read more »
Zeroh Tollrants
Guest

Oh, yeah? You try telling that to my Normie Conservative Twitter timeline. I’ll wait… 🙂 I tried to explain that National Socialism under Uncle A was a synthesis, so it could not be considered “left wing” or “right wing” using our current paradigm. Then I left Twitter for a week, because it’s just not worth it.
Seems a bit early in this war to put hard labels on ourselves or the enemy. Feel like I’ve read that these are bad ideas.

Philip Gahtan
Guest

The section of the country most opposed to the Kaiser and the Fuhrer was the South the people of Jim Crow.

Zeroh Tollrants
Guest

Evidently, my comment wasn’t as sarcastically amusing as I thought it was, and I’m not sure what Southern opposition to the Kaiser & Dolphie H have to do with anything, but I appreciate the information, nonetheless, Philip.

Al from da Nort
Guest

It was not particularly ideological since Hitler and the Kaiser had little in common. It was a fight and they wanted in on it.

Anonymous White Male
Guest

Why would the South want to fight in wars that only benefited their Northern masters? The South has been providing a disproportionate amount of soldiers for America’s empire building adventures for decades. Maybe their commonsense makes them realize that a larger number of their sons are going to be the ones coming on in body bags. Plus, many Southerners recognize that America’s wars are merely money making opportunities for our (((masters))) and protect us from nothing.

Calsdad
Guest
Al from da Nort
Guest

What you say may or may not be true now, but the situation described above happened 2 + generations ago for the Fuehrer and 3 + generations ago for the Kaiser. (If a generation = 30 years).

Anonymous White Male
Guest
Actually, the South has always had a disproportionate number of their population that served in war. I can’t find any demographic data for WWI and WWII. Apparently, many records were lost, but I have read this in more than one book. When I did a search (with 3 different search engines), I found some many references to “African American” soldiers, which, of course, is laughable. This is what Wikipedia says. There are only two references there. “It is often described that the Southern United States as a whole have a military tradition, which is represented in the much higher representation… Read more »
Whiskey
Guest
People opining on “the Jewish Question” and bragging on how the Fuhrer could dance your pants off are Reason #1 why the Right never gets anywhere. There is no “desacralizing” the Holocaust for the simple reason that Normies can see that the victims were like them: urban or suburban, did nothing wrong, wanted merely to be left alone, and were herded into cattle cars before being gassed or machine gunned. So yes, oh Soros plant, opine away about how we need to “settle the Jewish Question” and “remove Jews” etc. I’m sure the Fuhrer could dance your pants off. ————————-… Read more »
Joey Junger
Guest

Whiskey, this is actually insightful, but instead of writing blog entries in the comments section at Zman’s blog, can you put up some more material on your blog, preferably not about how the latest McDonald’s commercial is proof that white women want to cuckold and castrate their beta husbands whom they hate? Your saner blog entries are enjoyable, though and I’d be interested to see what you make of white females supporting Trump in the election (a lot of the MRA types got some ‘splaining to do, or at least analysis to perform and assumptions to rethink).

Alzaebo
Guest

Whiskey- venerable veteran of the blogosphere, still spoken of in hushed whispers- has a blog? Gee, thanks!

Jake
Guest
“Fascism” is a term that was originally coined by the Italian dictator Mussolini to describe his adaptation of Marxism to the conditions of Italy after World War I. Lenin in Russia made somewhat different adaptations of Marxism to the conditions in Russia during the same period and his adaptations came to be called Marxism/Leninism. Mussolini stayed closer to Marx in that he felt that Italy had to go through a capitalist stage before it could reach socialism whereas Lenin attempted to push Russia straight from semi-feudalism into socialism. Mussolini’s principal modification of Marxism was his rejection of the notion of… Read more »
UpYours
Guest

The alt-white movement in many ways is fascism packaged in a neat marketing slogan. The alt-white accepts and celebrates every single racial and social argument of the white supremacists. Fascism is not dead, just living under an alias as this blog proves.

Zeroh Tollrants
Guest

Every time I read one of your posts, UpYours, I wonder why your resentment of white people compels you to comment on this blog…it’s a bit sad. This isn’t the only blog you do this on either, is it?

Member

He’s resentful because the moyel took too much.

Joey Junger
Guest
Zman, I’m sure you’ve seen that graph of the voting habits of Generation Z. The left’s narrative that all the old racists are dying off is contradicted by the explicit racial consciousness of young whites. I’m only in my thirties, but I’m already old in terms of trying to understand the weltanschaaung and internet-rerouted dendrites of the young memers. As Boris Karloff said in Peter Bogdonavich’s “Targets,” “The world belongs to the young, now. Let them have it.” I hear where you’re coming from talking about Anglin and the irrelevance of the Nazis, but you have to understand that your… Read more »
Member

Okay, I admit it: I don’t get the Teddy Roosevelt line. In my defense I am Australian, so I hope that this protects me somewhat from the awfulness of my ignorance.

Member
Shorter answer: Teddy Roosevelt went for another term as a third party called the “Bull Moose” party. Longer answer: After President and all around bad ass Teddy Roosevelt declared Taft to be his successor as president, he went off to get out of politics. During Taft’s presidency, Roosevelt became upset at Taft for being a corrupt piece of shit and so ran against him, but couldn’t grab the Republican nomination. In a move which some argue put that murderer Wilson into power and threw us into World War 1, Teddy started the Bull Moose party specifically to run for president… Read more »
Member

Yes, it does. Much appreciated.

Alzaebo
Guest

The symbol of his party was the Bull Moose Party, aka the Progrssive Party.
As opposed to the Republican (Elephants) and Democrats (Jackasses, er, Donkeys).

Member

Yes, but how does this help us eject the nazis from our important movement?

Member
My point is that the Nazis and Fascists will always be baggage associated with the right. The left will never let go of this because it gives them entry to shut up specific people and groups. This gives them enormous power and advantage in the political marketplace. Almost a monopoly. This is also why we see Republicans doing fealty to Jews and Israel in such a pitiful manner. It is the only way they can gain access to the single tiny political walkway available to them. Straying off this path one millimeter gets the inevitable accusation and banishment. The only… Read more »
Observer
Guest
Exactly. As long as anything white men want to do can be stopped by mentally linking it to the Nazis & the Holocaust then white men are constrained. There are several places to break that linking process. We can desacralize the Holocaust, we can detoxify the Nazis, we can create an alternative information source that overwhelms the (((current))) one, we can take away resources & status from anti-white propagandists, we can physically remove anti-white propagandists. My vote is for all of the above. But first, pro-white people must understand the power of the Holocaust & Nazi trick being played on… Read more »
Al from da Nort
Guest

Doc;
An outstanding exposition. But wouldn’t it be enough if those attacked using nazi rhetoric felt empowered to reject it outright_?

Observer
Guest
I would say that to accept the current narrative of the Nazis & Holocaust makes it impossible for someone getting attacked by it to effectively reject it. The premises are: 1) The Holocaust is the worst thing that has happened in the world, the only Absolute Evil ever. 2) The Jews are perpetual & innocent victims who need special care & respect. 3) White people’s nationalism & self-interest automatically leads to Nazism & the Holocaust. 4) White people cannot be trusted to know (or admit) whether or not their actions will lead to Nazism & the Holocaust, so must be… Read more »
Al from da Nort
Guest
Observer; Well, you’re right about the rhetorical trouble you’d find yourself in if you accept Prog premises and got down into the weeds arguing point-by-point that they were’t true in your particular case. But why do this_? When it comes to political discussion, the vast majority of Progs are basically poo-fliging monkeys on two legs. Pick any normal subject; They have no idea what they’re talking about. So I’d recommend making *them* defend their premises. Even forcing them to state in the open such premises as you outline above moves the ball, I’d say. For example, when accused you might… Read more »
Observer
Guest
That might work one-on-one, though I doubt it. I mean imagine for yourself how effective it would be to give a precise historical definition of fascism to a screeching SJW. On a larger, societal, level white men have to defeat the malignant mind-hack completely. Over the centuries, the White men’s psychology has been thoroughly mapped & analyzed for weaknesses by competitors who live among us but aren’t us. They’ve figured out our weakness: White men will do just about anything we are convinced is the most moral & virtuous act. And will NOT do what we are convinced is immoral.… Read more »
Member

They don’t care about defending premises. All they care about is shutting the other side up.

They are the rhetorical equivalents of Patton. What we need to be.

And we can’t be that as long as we are content to wear shackles.

Old Surfer
Guest

This is a classic example of the “kafkatrap”. The only cure is to not buy into it, tell them to fuck off and quit lying.

David
Guest

The Left-Right Political Spectrum didn’t even survive the French Revolution when it was replaced by “the mountain”. Various 2D schemes to replace the political spectrum have been suggested over the decades. I like Jerry Pournelle’s best. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pournelle_chart
Sadly he passed away this September 8th. They all have their flaws though.

W nohmor
Guest

Your point seems so obvious but discourse in the Twitter era requires divisive labels to keep within the word limits. It’s much easier and lazier to label someone or something fascist than to try and discredit them with a label. A label worth a hundred words?

Saml Adams
Guest
Two observations. First, when I read Arendt’s “Origins of Totalitarianism” in college, her “scaling” of political movements was the first one that felt correct and had the advantage of someone that experienced them first hand. But try to explain that to anyone under 45 who gets their politics from Twitter and Colbert and you realize what a complete waste of time the discussion is. Second, the 1919-25 period is hugely understudied, both US and Europe. There is little appreciation for how close Bolshevism (and variants) came to winning the day in much of Europe. Nor the the correct observation by… Read more »
Al from da Nort
Guest
Sam; Bingo on your second point_! How many today know that Germany had repeated Communist uprisings right after the war and that it was not at all clear that they could be stopped. Or who know that Hungary had a bloody Bolshevik ruler for six months or that Trotsky had a Red Army targeting Berlin (to cement the German Communists in power) marching to unite Germany and Russia under a vastly expanded USSR_? The idea of Russian numbers equipped by German industry under the direction of German officers absolutely terrified the Brits, but, as you say, they were in little… Read more »
Member
I too consider this one of your best-reasoned posts. Personally, I’m less inclined to accept 100% the biological determinant, putting it at about 75% and giving 25% to intellectual/cultural, thus leaving room for outliers from non-100%-European descent. I strongly doubt miscegenation will stop or even slow down and in some cases hybridization isn’t always a bad idea. Perhaps I’d believe differently if my grandsons weren’t 1/16th Guaraní, but they are, though they’re both very NW European in appearance and their upbringing will be 100% within that tradition, save for the annual occasions when they dress up in Spanish colonial or… Read more »
The Walkin\' Dude
Guest

OT but Buppert’s site ZeroGov is gone. Did dey get google’d?

Member

The anti-white ideology held by American and European white leftists isn’t what I’d call biological. Neither is all the trans bullshit.

james wilsonHk
Guest
You may want to consider that it is biological, if only because Caucasians are the only ones to exhibit this type of behavior–that is, self-denigrating and alien worshiping–possibly a product of unprecedented out breeding. It can be seen as far back as Tacitus, and then beginning in the Middle Ages exogamous mating became the rule to the level of fifth cousins. To find the fault in a thing go to it’s extreme, and the SJW is that. The opposite of extreme out breeding is extreme inbreeding where the Moslem exists in clans, related by first cousin, and nothing is trusted… Read more »
Tamaqua
Guest
I wouldn’t go so far as to call the study of fascism, Communism, or Hitler and the Nazis as irrelevant in today’s ideological context. That just isn’t so, speaking as a historian. We are in the last 14 months of the centennial of the First World War, a war that redefined everything. The labels change, but the impulses behind them generally do not. However, those same ideologies born of Marx were the driving force behind Barack Hussein Obama’s entire life. The’ man’s conception and birth was literally a political act, and he was President less than a year ago. So… Read more »
Al from da Nort
Guest
Tam; To follow along your and Sam Adams thought trend. Could one answer be to produce an outline history of the last 120 years that accurately but succinctly sorts out where commies, fascists, progs. came from and what they thought they were trying to do. You know, one purged of the leftist poison but not grossly tilted to ‘the right’ (whatever that means). Getting the truth out ‘no lables’ might help to remove the rhetorical power of the ‘natzi’ accusation. In my own, very limited discussions with normies on the subject, when somebody brings up the accusation, I say, “You… Read more »
D&D Dave in the bubble
Guest
D&D Dave in the bubble
Z says – “Progressive took the dead ideology of fascism and turned into a political concept to include the set of people who oppose the Progressive project. As the opposition adjusted, the definition adjusted to meet the new threat.” Spot on. The Regressive (they are not Progressive) definition of Fascism is like computer technology, a model created a few years ago is already obsolete as the newer models are always evolving. Who in their right mind would have thought a few years ago that to object to having a 40 year old male pervert share the Woman’s restroom with 8… Read more »
Ivar
Guest

It is really the magical power of the words which is important, not the words themselves. All of them are starting to wear thin, including the king of them all, racism (except, of course among Republicans and Cucks.)

slumlord
Guest
How the Left understands Fascism is irrelevant, how the Right understands it is vitally important. Part of the reason why the Right has been on a losing streak for the two hundred years is because it hasn’t been able to distinguish friend from foe, and ultimately ends up supporting the causes that undercut it. Fascism, may be dead, but it was one head of the hydra of Modernism which still lurks with us today. To understand Fascism as a rearguard action is to totally misunderstand it. Roger Griffin, convincingly in my opinion, shows that it was an attempt to build… Read more »
Dutch
Guest

Which is why the Founding Fathers rejected biology, among other metrics, and, at root philosophy at least, sought freedom for everyone. The lefties have twisted it around to mandate quotas and set-asides for favored groups, and also to try to prohibit the recognition of biology as one of the determining factors in people’s lives. Their genius has been to label things the opposite of what they truly are, and actually have people buy in to their fiction. Orwell nailed it.

cerulean
Guest

Equality of each individual before the law is a good thing to aim for. Equality of life success, guaranteed by the law, is not so good.

Anonymous White Male
Guest
“Which is why the Founding Fathers rejected biology, among other metrics, and, at root philosophy at least, sought freedom for everyone.” I’m not sure what you mean here. I think there had only been about 4 literary references to the “science of biology” when the American Revolution began. So I don’t think they thought of things in terms of “biology”. But, I don’t want to split hairs. The Founding Fathers were very cognizant of Natural History. They were also aware of race. They did not pretend to seek freedom for everyone. They didn’t even allow women the vote. They certainly… Read more »
Dutch
Guest
There was what the Founding Fathers were trying to do, and what could actually get done amongst the fractious states in the late 18th century. The restrictions and limits were definitely based on race and gender, but the basic idea was that God created man to live his life freely (but with serious responsibilities). You do make a good argument, though, so I will backtrack a bit, and say that some Founding Fathers did not seek to sharply restrict the basic idea of American freedom by applying a series of tests, based on biological factors such as intelligence, appearance, or… Read more »
SpongeBob
Guest
One of the great questions this leads to is The west will never outbreed the “r” selected hordes of Africa and south/central America. To survive in competition with “r” populations the west, “k” populations must be highly territorial, as “r”‘s take over not by strength but by numbers, as a parasitic population, a parasitic “infection” in you will. The only way to prevent that is to never allow them into a “k” society, to treat them as a disease. The other major aspect of that is economic. The modern debt based economic system is inherently an “r” based economic system… Read more »
Jake
Guest
“HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST ” “Now that more than 60 years have passed since the military defeat of Nazi Germany, one might have thought that the name of its leader would be all but forgotten. This is far from the case, however. Even in the popular press, references to Hitler are incessant and the trickle of TV documentaries on the Germany of his era would seem to be unceasing. Hitler even featured on the cover of a 1995 Time magazine. This finds its counterpart in the academic literature too. Scholarly works on Hitler’s deeds continue to emerge many years after… Read more »
Dutch
Guest

“Hitler” and “fascism” are simply verbal cudgels to be used against alpha white males. Any direct response leads to the “are you still beating your wife?” routine. The only shot we have is to let them wear out the verbal game, and they are working hard to do that right now. Al added a voice to my thinking that “fascism” is no longer a political/social/economic philosophy or system to the young, but simply a stink bomb that gets thrown around on occasion.

cerulean
Guest

You can leave out the “alpha.”

Spud Boy
Guest
In my mind, left vs. right is pretty simple: Right: The individual is the prime unit of society; free markets are the best and usually the only means of delivering high quality goods and services; liberty is more important than equality of outcome. Left: The state is the prime unit of society; free markets are often corrupt; equality of outcome in the near term is paramount; your personal liberty, such as it exists, is secondary to the needs of the collective. Where does that leave Nazism? Sounds more like Left to me. Just because it opposed communism doesn’t mean it’s… Read more »
Drake
Guest

“because the communists defeated the Nazis in WW2, they successfully defined themselves as being anti-fascist, and the left has been dining on this lie ever since. Communism was (and still is) the original Antifa movement.”

– One Cʘsmos

Communism versus Fascism was a family fight. It’s unfortunate that we got pulled into it.

Dutch
Guest

In high school I used to call the left-right spectrum a circle, and the left and the right met on the far side. It became a little personal shit-test for my teachers, to see which ones were worthy of engagement.

TomA
Guest

I’m not sure it’s possible to debate the core phenomenon that is ailing us in this current age in which genuine hardship is nearly extinct. All of the pathologies that afflict our species at present have their genesis in the transformation of the tradition evolutionary selection mechanism (which favored robustness) to a model that now favors hive traits and behaviors (conformity and drone actions). Of what use is it to debate instantaneous politics when the underlying disease is consumptive?

Drake
Guest

it’s an easy question to answer if you look at Benito Mussolini’s career. He was a member of the Italian Socialist Party. He was expelled from the party during WWI for his position on the war. he and Hitler both spoke the Socialist language and believed in a big government controlling the economy.

They fell out with their fellow Communists and Socialists when it came to foreign policies and nationalism rather than internationalism. The National Socialist Party was very accurately named.

Member

And the Dems are the real racists.

james wilsonHk
Guest

The Muss evolved from Bolshevik to Communist to Socialist to Fascist. If he’d made wiser choices he’d have made it to Corporatist, but it was a tough neighborhood.

Guest
Guest

Another reminder of the wave of demographic change that is sweeping across the landscape.

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/09/11/fewer-white-students-enrolling-in-colorado-colleges/

Demographics are not on our side. This is simple math. We will not vote our way out of this, nor will a republican (small “r”) form of government survive these demographic changes.

Evict California and we have a shot at maintaining the Republic.

TomA
Guest

“We will not vote our way out of this”

Agreed. The real danger is the delusion that we are going to talk our way back to a sane society that rights the ship before we hit the iceberg. This mindset just provides false hope that keeps people in stasis until the numbers are overwhelmingly tilted toward the hive-minded. Treading water is not a substitute for working the problem.

Issac
Guest
I think the bulk of the dissenting comments here illustrates why the Nazi is such an effective Tar Baby and why whites brawl endlessly in the briar patch while the world burns. At bottom, Europeans manager their identity at a moral level and this moral community impulse appears powerful enough to override biological self-defense. I take heart from the fact that Zman seems to understand why this is folly. Biology assign you your first loyalty, abandon it at your own expense. Nobody in the world of tomorrow will care if you opposed or supported “nazis.” They will simply cut you… Read more »
Drake
Guest

The debate here in the U.S. is kind of silly. I find these debates in Europe depressing. Their political spectrum extends from Communist to Socialist to National Socialist. They have their choice of big government statists and no other choices.

Occasional Commenter
Guest
IMO, positing a political spectrum with internationalism as the left side, and nationalism on the right, has always been incorrect. Internationalism vs. nationalism is simply a matter of “how grand is your vision?” I’ve always thought that a more logical spectrum would have increasing government control as you move left and increasing individual liberty as you move right. I would label the extreme left end-point as “state-run totalitarianism” and the right as “absolute personal responsibility” (i.e., almost no government at all). The left side includes many historical flavors, including Soviet Communism, German Naziism, and Italian Fascism. There is also room… Read more »
Dutch
Guest

Good luck on trying to redefine the left-right spectrum. I see where you are coming from, but trying to redefine decades of indoctrination is not so easy. Especially given the entrenched interests committed to perpetuating the game.

Scratch a Progressive deeply enough, and you’ll get a version of “where’s my free stuff?” every time.

Occasional Commenter
Guest
So, we should keep letting the Left define the terms of the discussion? I think it would be a good idea to proffer a different model, and let the Left defend the old one. The model I described does what Z-Man described in his article. It puts Naziism squarely on the left of the spectrum where it really belongs, right next to the other variations of socialism. And positing that the right of the spectrum is about increased individual liberty is something I think the Right ought to be emphasizing. A liberty-vs-statism debate is the discussion we should really be… Read more »
Richard
Guest

I take “the world’s most important graph” with a grain of salt. Trends are affected by events; war, disease, natural disasters, etc and Africa of all places is subject to all of them.

Chiron
Guest

The rise of NS and Fascism was a answer to the rise of Marxism/Bolshevism, it was about uniting the working class, corporations, state, clergy, military, against the Soviet Union.

You’re right, Fascism, Communism, and Nazism are all dead, the only thing today is the slow march towards e Globalized future that our Neoliberal elite wants so much.

Hateful Josh Alefantis
Guest
Hateful Josh Alefantis
“How to survive as a people in a world dominated by races unable to escape the neolithic without white people, is not something contemplated by Bolsheviks or fascists.” Wrong. “Fascists,” aka anyone who embraced the truth of eugenics, which obviously included the Nazis, as well as Lothrop Stoddard and Madison Grant, were concerned with this thing exactly – the racial, biological degeneration of humanity. The only difference is that now it’s not just Northwestern European whites against the whole world, but probably some alliance of all Eurasian whites with Ashkenazim and East-Asians, and even that is far from certain, and… Read more »
Thorsted
Guest

Wrong. Paul Gottfried has read Benito Mussolis motivations to invade Ethiopia and Somalia and it was to develop them and bring civilisation. I have meet a somali here in Denmark. He lived as a criminal in Italy and got asylum in Denmark. He has a wife and 4.children,- both boy has a criminal record. But, his father was young under the italian invasion of somalia and was adopted by the italian post-master in Mogadishu that thought him italian and other things. The italian fascists was do-gooders too.

Hateful Josh Alefantis
Guest
Hateful Josh Alefantis

Benito is far from the whole of fascism. Remember, “diversity is a strength,” and there was a lot of ideological diversity within fascism.

Anna
Guest

All these movements using different names
(marxism, fascism, socialism, progressivism and YES islam) amount to violating 3 Commandments: don’t covet, don’t steal, don’t murder.
Granted, Progs and Euro socialist didn’t reach murder stage (yet). They “only” steal thru taxation.
Islam and bolshevism started with murder in order to steal.
Thats why all these numerous movements have anti-semitism in common: why or why do the Jews have more than some others do?

Mr. Frosty
Guest

Fascism is being reborn as a reaction to the same forces that spawned it. It was always an immune response to a certain (((infection))). The (((infection))) won and, like AIDS, destroyed the immune system of the host. Now that the secondary infections are reaching critical mass, whatever is left of the immune system is trying to mount a response.

Fascism is based on the Spartan system. It’s basically a purified and stripped down version of Western Civilization mobilized against a threat. Franco’s Spain is an example of fascism successfully fighting off an infection.

Stephen
Guest

ZMan, you have the leftist habit of ad hominem attacks on people who should be your allies. Why the hostility and contempt for Dinesh D’Souza? He’s far and away the hardest-hitting critic of Progressivism and the Democrats and has convincingly shown the authoritarian, propagandizing nature of both. In the past you’ve also had ‘mal mots’ for Gavin McInnes and others. It’s the one weak aspect of your writing.

Member

Why would current Chinese communism not be considered fascism?
China has long since stopped with most communist dogma and has embraced capitalism.

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