Civil War

Over the holidays, this was a topic on one of the e-mail lists I read. Oddly, it is a list about statistics, but the topic got a lot of replies. Apparently, lots of people worry that America is headed toward a civil war of some sort. Perhaps people with an interest in statistical methods worry about civil wars, in addition to methodological wars. It could also be that people fond of math know that society is fragile and it would not take much to topple it over. The distance between us and Somalia is not a big as we like to pretend.

Anyway, it is a good brain teaser. What would a civil war in America be like this time around? The country is a vastly different place than the last time. The north is still richer than the south, but there’s a Midwest, Southwest, West and Northwest now. More important, nothing is made in the Northeast anymore, other than trouble. The North is also the oldest part of the country, lacking a robust male population. By the standards of the last civil war, the North would be at a demographic, cultural and material disadvantage.

But that was then and this is now. Civil wars tend to be territorial and the regionalism of America is not what it once was. Lots of people from New England have moved south to the Carolinas, for example. Florida is full New Yorkers and is the retirement home to much of the Northeast. Northern Virginia is a region full of strangers, brought together by high paying government work. In event of war, people could move back to their home turf, but it would mean millions of people moving from one part of the country to another.

There’s also the fact that civil wars are almost always between the elites of the host society. The people are dragged into it by the warring factions at the top. In modern America, the elites have never been more unified. In fact, they are so united we now have one political party, the Bipartisan Globalists Fusion Party. In all seriousness, the reason that you can’t tell the difference between the political opinions of Jonah Goldberg and Ezra Klein is that ideologically they are the same guy, with the same paymasters.

If there was to be a civil war in America, it would first have to start as a revolt and gain enough steam to be a genuine threat to the status quo. If a revolt grew into a serious threat to the interests of the ruling classes, then you might see some elements decide to throw in with the rebels. In all likelihood, it would be the younger, lower level members of the elites, looking for an opportunity to leapfrog their superiors. Alternatively, the revolt could quickly grow an elite of its own, like the Marxists did, to challenge the elites of the status quo.

Of course, there is the racial angle. It’s funny in a way, but the two groups convinced of the coming race war are blacks and white nationalists. The trouble with this idea is the time for a race war was fifty years ago in the Civil Rights Movement. There were plenty of young black males thinking they had nothing to lose and plenty of young white males thinking they had everything to lose, Today, the only people thinking race war are mentally unstable black guys and white nationalists. Hispanics have little interest in racial politics.

There’s also the technological issue. The lesson of the two great industrial wars on the early 20th century was that conventional warfare was no longer a plausible option for settling disputes. Putting aside nukes, conventional weapons had simply become too lethal and too destructive. Prior to the great war, winning a war meant gaining useful territory or shaking down the loser for money. Modern warfare means destroyed cities and fractured economies for both sides. Nukes make conventional war even less appealing.

That reality would be even more salient in a civil war. New Englanders would love to re-enact Sherman’s march to the sea, but they would end up killing more allies than enemies and the economic cost to the North would be devastating. The degree of integration in a modern society would work against the instinct to destroy the other guy’s stuff. Throw in the regionalism issue above and conventional warfare with set piece battles and troop formations is not going to serve the interests of anyone in the next American civil war.

There’s also another problem. The US military is about 1.3 million people, but about 80% are in administrative and support roles. We have more people in uniform pushing buttons at a keyboard than carrying a pack in the field. Of that fighting force, about two-thirds are deployed at any one time. It is not an accident that our political class is not a fan of keeping large numbers of combat ready troops on US soil. In a civil war, the US military would probably disintegrate early and be reduced to guerrilla units for all sides.

Now, America has been waging non-lethal war on the world for a long time in the form of financial war and now information war. Economic sanctions are a form of warfare intended to create unrest in the target society. A big motivation for North Korea’s quest for nukes is the economic war we have been waging against them for two decades. The Bush people took steps to cut them off from the banking system and thus starve the regime of hard currency. That’s made the elites of the regime much poorer and weaker as a result.

In a civil war, the tools of finance would come to bear. Assuming the civil war began as a revolt, the ruling class would first attempt to squeeze the rebels financially, by cutting them off from the financial system, making it hard to raise money. In this age, that means shutting down their PayPal accounts and booting them from crowdfunding systems. Credit card processors would be pressured to discontinue service. When that failed, banks would be forced to close accounts and the seize assets of trouble makers.

This would also discourage members of the elite from getting any ideas about supporting the rebels against the senior elements of the elite. This would be augmented by the use of information war to undermine the moral authority of the rebels, thus starving them of ability to gain popular support. Humans are social animals and they instinctively seek to distance themselves from those the culture has declared taboo. That would mean using mass media organs to evangelize against the rebels, while cutting them off from media access.

If all of this sounds familiar, it should. America, and the West, is teetering on the verge of civil war, but a modern, technological civil war. On the one side is the globalist elite, who have purged their ranks of anyone skeptical of the project. The brewing revolt is mostly the people willing to question the prevailing orthodoxy. The panic we saw last summer by the tech giants was motivated by a fear that the internet revolt was becoming a revolt in the streets. The financial war on dissidents is a part of this effort to suppress dissent.

This is the face of modern civil war.

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PropagandistHacker
Guest

when we get the last white president, I think whites may assassinate liberal federal judges in a bid to break up the federal union by having the president appoint conservative judges

PropagandistHacker
Guest

also, I think biotech would come into play, especially race-targeted mutant viruses

Drake
Guest

The last “There Will Be War” volume had a story about the Chinese clearing out Africa that way to make room for colonization.

Dan Kurt
Member

Story is: SEVEN KILL TIGER
by Charles W. Shao

Pournelle, Jerry. There Will Be War Volume X (Kindle Locations 194-195). Castalia House. Kindle Edition.

Dan Kurt

p.s. In the same volume is this not to be missed article: WAR AND MIGRATION
by Martin van Creveld

Pournelle, Jerry. There Will Be War Volume X (Kindle Locations 1820-1821). Castalia House. Kindle Edition.

PropagandistHacker
Guest

bootlickers of the elite voted me down…a shame that we have allowed the blood to run thin

LFMayor
Guest
I would love to reenact Sherman’s march to Lake Michigan. Here’s a view from the Plains of Redneckistan. Amateurs play fantasy football using stats of tactics and weapons. I see logistics about me, beans and bullets. Beans especially, in the form of grains and electrons. If those conveniently heaped mountains of grain were to be destroyed (or ideally, not planted to begin with) our country would go hungry, but a third of the world would starve. This would have the added benefit of putting pressure on the Elite from new directions. The electrons, carried by the elaborate, fragile and impossible… Read more »
Member

Our media is too busy reporting on the Kardashians and Nat Anthem protests, but you would be surprised how much the East Asian countries have diversified their rice supplies in the last couple of decades. By diversified I mean “bought huge tracts of land in South America, Mekong Delta, Indonesia, etc.” Russia is now grain self-sufficient. Europe and MENA would be hit the hardest.

Swrichmond
Guest

Upvoted for “humanist vanity gardens of parasites”.

Drake
Guest

Look at the last few election maps by county – any red vs. blue civil war would be urban versus rural (even in the north). The liberal city dwellers would be extremely vulnerable. Cut their water, fuel, and electricity supplies and the war would be over in a week.

You are right about the military disintegrating spectacularly. Those 20% of the military in combat arms tend to be the rural red state types who would melt away before turning on their people.

Hardvanger
Guest

Andrew Anglin is an Establishment agent. He’s a hustler with an Asian girlfriend. Like Mo Seligman Dees he’s going after a market. Any purported “white nationalist” using Nazi memes is deploying boilerplate jew tactics of keeping whites in a solutions corral–solutions which fail. The”Daily Stormer,” my ass.

And you cite an Atlantic article. Please… it’s a northeast metrosexual rag. No healthy white man or woman reads faggot pubs like the Atlantic.

ultimate irony bro
Guest
So you’ve never actually read anything the guy has written, which he admits is largely through the use of comedy and satire to break through to larger masses. You think it’s like some bottom-of-the-barrel types goose stepping through town and forming street gangs. Okay. The super serious stuff doesn’t really work any better you know. Nick Griffin in Britain was serious. Didn’t work. The enemy simply had too much of a chokehold on all institutions, so a new approach was needed and unless you’re going with some weird 4D chess narrative, Anglin’s site has been a first for many types… Read more »
Fergus
Guest

So wars are won with an angry letter to the Atlantic?

Fail.

ultimate irony bro
Guest

Who wrote an angry letter to the Atlantic? The fake news made-up and contradictory stories contained in the article by some middle-aged failure at life aren’t something Anglin wrote to the Atlantic. It’s something some hack wrote for them.

Keep sperging about him somehow being a fed or something, though.

rented mule
Guest

AA is one guy

Member
Cut of power and fuel – the physical electric grid is vulnerable as are pipelines, and tanker trucks – and the cities will be starving in a few days. Take out the refineries and where do the airplanes get their fuel? And there’s lots more that can be done by an insurgency to shatter our brittle and very long logistic supply lines. Look at what happened with the Hurricanes and Wildfires. Also note the demographic of the linemen who repaired things (when not being shot at). No power, no EBT cards, no access to the deposited Social Security retirement or… Read more »
AntrimOrange
Guest
I spent a good chunk of my life in the UK, and specifically Northern Ireland, or “NornIron” as the locals would say. Even the name itself is loaded with political connotation. Ask anyone sympathetic to the Irish Nationalist/Republican cause and they will in invariably refer to it as “the North of the country”, or the “six counties”. I am and always will be fiercely loyal to the Crown and take very seriously the phrase “United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland” embossed on the front of the passport. I honor and revere the countless tens of thousands who gave… Read more »
Dutch
Guest

In my frequent visits and time spent living in the UK and in Ireland, I was always struck by the depth and intensity of the blind reflexive hate of the other side. It is not a healthy thing, and difficult to dislodge, once in place. Many innocents and young men serving their countries (and tasked to keep the peace, by and large) have been chewed up over the years.

Al from da Nort
Guest
A.O.; Thanks for providing a thorough summary of yet another example of how bad a civil conflict can become. And, I’m pretty sure I’m right that there were/are no actual racial elements to it, unlike Ruanda where the Hutus and Tutsis were (arguably) of different races as well as tribes (Hutu’s – Bantu, W. African origin; Tutsi’s – Nilotic, E. African origin). Seems just a little examination can turn up numerous potential historical examples: For example Chile in the ’60s and ’70s also comes to mind. It’s my impression that both sides had external support/ interference. For example, I remember… Read more »
Dutch
Guest

The American public’s (a small part of the population) support for the IRA struck me as similar to the pockets of American Jewish support for Palestine. Those who suffer not at all from the consequences like to stir things up against Ulster and Israel, and make the people there suffer greatly.

AntrimOrange
Guest

There has long been a sense of solidarity between Ulster Loyalists, Israelis and South African whites. All three see themselves as having carved out a homeland amidst less-than-welcoming neighbours, and all three have seen what happens when you give an inch or fail to keep the hard men on the walls. What goes in Ulster goes in Israel just as in Orange Free State: “No Surrender.”

PRCD
Guest
AntrimOrange, I hope you become a regular commenter here. What, in your opinion, is required for the Boer to get off his knees and survive? Arguable, he predated the Bantu in South Africa arriving shortly after our own Pilgrims arrived in New England. Also, what is a proper response to a threat such as this besides immediately killing the person who said it? “That yer car? It’s a nice car. Be a shame if anything happened to it. Yer wife and kids use it too don’t they? Sits out back yer house off the Oreau Road.””
AntrimOrange
Guest
Let the rot continue. I’ve been to South Africa, and Capetown is, or used to be, a garden city. Now the future of South Africa, the venture capitalists and entrpreneurs who kept things working have fled to the US and to some extent the UK. Zuma is wandering down the same path Bobby Mugabe strode, and you see where that got him. The same thing which happened in Rhodesia will happen in South Africa. Yes, the land is rich in natural resources, but then again, so is Sierra Leone and you see how well that has gone. When the people… Read more »
PRCD
Guest
Antrim, It’s becoming clear to me that most of the Boers will have nowhere to flee. When Rhodesia collapsed, some of the Rhodesians went to SA, some went to Oz, some went to the UK and other parts of the Anglosphere. South African Afrikaners/Boers have been trying to flee to Western countries but have been denied. Recently, they made a “right of return” case to the Netherlands, France, Germany and other countries they originally hailed from and were denied. My question is, “Since they probably cannot flee, will the Boers ever fight for their own state or will they simply… Read more »
Fergus
Guest

The proper response is two in the chest and one in the head.

AntrimOrange
Guest
Boston, San Francisco and New Orleans were for the Provos what Toronto and London were for the Loyalists. I was told personally by a former PIRA man of a certain Irish pub in New Orleans where anyone on the lam from the law could show up and drop the right names and be put to work off the books and shielded from any questioning interlocutors. I’m sure the same went on in Boston and San Fran. Racially unionists and fenians may be same, but culturally the gap is as wide as ever. I’ll never forget the bold-type headline in the… Read more »
Alzaebo
Guest
Bless you for mentioning Ted’s mafia and his “North American Irish Fund” to buy guns for the IRA. What was his financial interest in keeping the Troubles going, I wonder. (Zman has mentioned Boston southies either writing a check or wishing they could.) I am certain he murdered his nephew, John Jr., who was preparing to run against Hillary for the office of junior Senator of NY.) Now we know why he appealed to a foreign power, Andropov (the Russians!) for help to defeat Reagan and rag Thatcher. AntrimOrange, could you give a brief breakdown of the sides involved? Your… Read more »
Mopsy
Guest
Mum and I visited Belfast a while back. Part of my ancestry includes Orange Irish people from Belfast. So we were more attuned to emotions and feelings than most clueless Americans. The suppressed emotion/anger was quite evident to us. Once, sitting in a pub having dinner, we shared a table with an older couple (say 60s or early 70s in age). They were cautious at first, probing us to see who we were. When I told about my ancestors, they thawed noticeably. The man was from Tyrone (I could barely understand him but Mum could). I had ancestry there but… Read more »
coimhlint
Guest
as an Irishman of southern extraction living in the US, I would tend to disagree with much of what you say. I would suggest that 1916 was very good timing for a conquered people to rise once more against their colonial masters. Perhaps readers of this blog can decide for themselves whether loyalist or nationalist violence came first. I don’t think Northern Ireland as a conflict has good parallels with the US: it consisted of 2 roughly equal populations with great historical animus living in close quarters with limited weapons and the army/police favoring one side. There were few emigrants… Read more »
AntrimOrange
Guest
Well taken mate; but don’t think for one moment the Ulster-Scots are or ever were lackeys to the English.We like them little more than your tribe do. Catholic Irish have always tended to be rural and Protestants urban, mainly for defensive protection, going back to plantation days. It is rather similar to the laager mentality the Boers developed against their bantu adversaries. It is also part of the reason the Ulster-Scots fared so well in the backcountry of colonial America where the land was cheap and they were used to having hostile neighbours. I still say, (though you may only… Read more »
Hardvanger
Guest

I don’t need to read this pabulum. I’ve read it before. Atlantic has a circulation of 20k, a vanity rag forthe effete and fading upper MC.

The future of whites will be determined by smart, tough, productive white people, not by academic gofers.

Tom Chittum’s Civil War II is a much better guide to what is coming.

A.B Prosper
Guest

Whatever happened it won’t be televised, written down or blogged very much . The Clinton Doctrine as its called after Bosnia makes the press and that is a broad category a primary legitimate wartime target

Tony
Guest

That Anglin chap has “ishoos” don’t he?

Cracker Factory
Guest
An obvious problem for Globohomo Empire is they proclaim they value certain values – free speech & technological innovation, but to be successful they’ll need to control & suppress these. They NEED to control crypto-currencies & alt-tech – that’s doable but difficult. In the US, they’ll also need to violate/eliminate/undermine more than they have already the 1st & 2nd. Foreign players like China & Russia maybe willing to interfere in domestic disputes by simply leaving tech doors open – bitcoin. Globohomo’s veil is wearing thin & the public is increasingly aware of that. Their domestic hegemony relies on legitimacy, but… Read more »
Dirtnapninja
Guest

The eventual war war look like a combination of Beiruit and the congo war. The cities will divide into communities ruled by local criminal syndicates and warlords and based around ethnicity. The penalty for stepping into the wrong neighborhood? Death. The war will be fought by armed mobs, gangs and militias. It will be a hell of bombings, massacres, snipings and skirmishes.

Severian
Guest

The great advantage the rebels would have in a civil war is that the Elite is comically effete. I doubt the Goldbergs and Kleins of the world can open a pickle jar by themselves. Not that too many Americans are accustomed to the sight of blood these days, but find an American with calluses on his hands: Did he vote for Trump, do you think? If not, is he really willing to go into battle on PajamaBoy’s behalf?

Backwoods+Engineer
Guest

“Not that too many Americans are accustomed to the sight of blood these days”

Contrast that to the millions of us rurals who hunt deer every year. Most of us do the gutting ourselves. We can handle the sight and touch blood. The Pajama Boys? Not so much.

Tax Slave
Guest

But they sure know how to toss around the threats against whites, conservatives and Christians on the Internet!

Alzaebo
Guest

After dressing him out, should Leftist meat be stored in the smokehouse or the freezer?

On second thought, will the dogs even eat it, instead?

A.B Prosper
Guest

The US Right has millions of combat vets from decades of war and rebellion and a lot of non vets like me who are farm boys and/or scrappers.

The ones that are string but not string enough can help in other ways anyway.

Toughness is not our issue, leadership and goals are.

Long and short so many of us won’t fight because no one knows what to fight for

Din C. Nuffin
Guest

Fighting for – to be left alone. Fighting against – an intrusive federal government. Zman isn’t a fan of the Oath Keepers, but I am grateful for those who took the oath to support the Constitution and intend to adhere to it. It is too bad the jurists and congresspersons ignore their oath.

A.B. Prosper
Guest
Minacrchy didn’t really work well past the Whiskey Rebellion and doesn’t work, can’t work in a world with the technology we have If you don’t regulate someone will use tech to enslave or kill you because that is what people do and while America has far more than the average nation of “live and let live” sorts it only takes a handful of the other to rain ruin upon everyone Frankly leave me alone is not a goal and just ends up substituting one master (an indifferent to slightly helpful Republic ) for another (a wholly selfish Corporation) You are… Read more »
Dirtnapninja
Guest

The left has far more money, much better organisation, control of key cities and elite support. Guns are cheap. organisation isnt. In any civil war, the left will start with a considerable advantage.

photom
Guest

Big difference between hunting and killing someone…..the first one is expensive, the rest are free.

ambiguousfrog
Guest

Does a deer move and shoot back?

A.B. Prosper
Guest
Nope but that’s a skill that can be learned and will be learned. Its easier for the Right if they decide to fight but if lives are on the line and they are motivated even bugmen and soyboys can pull a a trigger if they must. They’ll change in so doing but so be it. Assuming men 70 and under, the US has had not a single measurable period without armed conflict of some kind and even for people who aren’t soldiers, armed police work , private training and a myriad of useful related skills and attitudes The Right is… Read more »
pyrrhus
Guest

“The distance between us and Somalia is not a big as we like to pretend.” It’s actually about 2 SD in IQ, which is enormous. However, if we continue to import Somalia into the US, the distance will shrink rapidly…

pyrrhus
Guest

Anyway, there will be no hot civil war until the Elites attempt to confiscate the people’s firearms, ammo, and possibly food if the climate continues to cool. That will be the trigger point.

Tax Slave
Guest

Or as Z points out, the banks.

Capt. Obvious
Guest

TPTB wont have to confiscate guns or ammo. Look at the latest laws in California. The state government isn’t taking anything. They are just making it increasingly difficult and more expensive to keep them legally. Bit by bit they make it more trouble than it is worth for the average person to be armed. The public will voluntarily give them up. If they won’t their children sure will. Because the children are being conditioned in public schools daily about the “evils” of guns.

Al from da Nort
Guest
NOBODY should be hoping in any way for Civil War II. It will be entirely too easy to end up in a shallow grave by being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Particularly if you live in the suburbs, ‘preper’ or not. On topic: I don’t get why nobody seems to be examining what’s happening in Iran right before our eyes. It’s an actual insurrection in progress and the most likely sort of scenario in a Cloud vs. Dirt conflict here. Apparently third parties may be keeping the rebels comm’s up and the army is ambivalent. Or at… Read more »
Rich Vail
Guest
The army in Iran isn’t the key here, The Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps is. That they have not become actively involved is a sign that their leadership may not be able to trust them & the irregular Basj militias as much as they thought. The next several weeks will be telling. If the people continue to protest, and the gov’t attempts to crack down, tens of thousands will die…or the people will successfully turn the rank & file of the various militias & military units against the government. THAT is how the Shah’s government collapsed. That is what the Mullahs… Read more »
Dutch
Guest

Who are the heroes in our culture over the last 20 years? The “let’s roll” people of flight 93 on 9/11, the FDNY firefighters on the same day, the utility linemen, the Cajun Navy, the people picking up and helping others after fires and hurricanes. The guys who put down the bad guys before they do more damage. No tuff grrlz or Marvel superheroes anywhere to be seen. When or if the SHTF, these guys are the ones to rely on, not the hypothetical examples of the Left.

calsdad
Guest
Good example………………………… Of how the cloud people push bullshit out to the masses to keep a lid on things. Yes – the firemen on 9/11 exhibited some noteworthy bravery that day. The Cajun Navy is the kind of civic responsibility that makes this country great IMHO (when the government isn’t stepping in and crapping all over people who go out of their way to help their fellow citizens). The problem with the “let’s roll” people – is that it’s a lie. The plane was shot down. I’ve got an acquaintance who works in security – and was there that day… Read more »
LFMayor
Guest

This stinks of contrails, guy. Are you going to have to be taught how Pressure, Velocity and Temperature work on atmospheric moisture in the real world?

calsdad
Guest
LOL. Maybe you ought to stop staring up at the sky and do a little research. The plane was shot down thing has been out there FOR YEARS Bush: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/29/george-bush-thought-9-11-plane-shot-down Cheney: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5GgZa9V0A8 The order was there – that’s not the question. The question is whether or not it was actually shot down. http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2008/04/us-air-force-shot-down-flight-93.html This guy’s account claims that it was. My acquaintance was very clear on what he said: The FAA controllers said the plane was shot down. Everybody was told to STFU up about it. A good part of the problem with the right wing in this country –… Read more »
Saml Adams
Guest

Sorry. Worked with one of the guy that counterattacked the hijackers. Totally consistent with his character and physical capabilities.

calsdad
Guest

There is also the potential that BOTH stories could be true.

Either way – I see the government refusing to admit to a shoot-down as completely plausible given the types of stories we’ve seen surface *with proof* over the last couple of years.

Al from da Nort
Guest
Cal; ‘Cleared to Fire’ orders from NORAD would *not* be coming over the FAA open frequencies. They would be crypto protected for obvious reasons such as preventing an internal crisis created by enemies via spoofing such orders. Also to escape monitoring by potentially untrustworthy folks such as FAA center people with no/unknown security clearances. So it is *most* unlikely that any FAA center heard any such thing. Friend-of-a-friend-told-me stories should be assumed to be folklore until proven otherwise. Viz: Your friend got to be a momentary big shot by passing along uncheckable ‘inside information’. Caught myself almost doing it a… Read more »
calsdad
Guest
I didn’t say they “heard” anything. Are F-16’s (or F-15’s – I don’t remember which was scrambled that day) – invisible to commercial flight tracking radar? There’s more ways to know the flight actually got shot down than just hearing the military communications channels. Bush and Cheney have already admitted on the record that they gave the order. They just never admitted that it actually happened. Sorry – but I might have been skeptical of these shoot down claims four or five years ago. The last couple of years has dis-abused me of any skepticism I might have had of… Read more »
TomA
Guest
You’re thinking in terms of old paradigms. A potential future conflict will likely be driven by a dichotomy between the shrinking productive element of society and a rapidly expanding parasitic counterpart. The former will mostly consist of fiercely self-reliant individualists and the latter will emerge as droves of hive-minded and dependence-addicted drones. Non-conformity will become a crime punishable by confiscation or indentured servitude, and rebellion against this form of enslavement will be the trigger. The elites will push soft tyranny as far as possible at first, and then pit blue on green (e.g. LEO versus patriot) in order to decimate… Read more »
calsdad
Guest
I know a number of LEO and LEO associated (like prison guards). ALL of these guys I know – are what I would call “patriots” – and I think would have very serious reservations about siding with the government and the Free Shit Army – over armed productive citizenry. The only deciding factor I see there – is that their livelihood depends on the government. So they’re stuck in a bit of a quandary. That might be some sort of deciding factor – but would be when IRA type tactics would come in very useful to swap people’s allegiances. Much… Read more »
Member

I wonder if the country is really as divided as the elites want us to believe. Antifa seems awfully quiet. Who knows where George Soros is these days? It’s almost as if the puppet masters are being quietly rounded up…

Dutch
Guest

False flag provocations are harder than ever to accomplish. The legacy media is broken, the average person is figuring things out, and the internet provides the truth if you know where to look for it.

The provocateurs see the weakest link as the internet and social media (note how Iran went right to internet shutdowns when things got frisky over there). That’s why they encouraged the “end of the world” scenario over net neutrality. Battlespace preparation.

Member
I’ve been quietly speculating that Trump has brought something to bear against Soros and the Cloud… I just cannot figure out what that something might be. Don’t forget that in Civil War I the Regular Army was sent to the frontiers. RA regiments only joined the Army of the Potomac for the last few months of the war when victory seemed assured. CW I was fought by militias and generaled by RA officers. Swarm and drone technology might be decisive, but in my opinion, whoever controls the nuclear arsenal would have the most legitimate claim to being the government of… Read more »
Joey+Junger
Guest
I’ve noticed from my own reading of history that Millenarianism is a strong precipitant in civil wars. People were convinced that the “Little Ice Age” in the 17th Century meant the world was coming to an end, and I believe it helped prime the pump for the 30 Years War. There was a strong religious, eschatological cast to the nut job abolitionist John Brown’s raids that helped get the Civil War going (see Ben Wright’s “Apocalypse and the Millennium in the Civil War”). If I had to guess what was going to get us spilling each other’s blood this time,… Read more »
Al from da Nort
Guest
Joey; Ah, but *tribal war* will get the viciousness going every time, just as you say. So, when does a ‘race’ become a tribe (or vice versa) hereabouts. The Progs have been busy, busy, busy trying to make various local or imported minorities into actual ‘tribes’ or ‘nations’ and they are either too stupid to realize where this goes or viciously indifferent. For most of human history the progression of political organization has been Family > Clan > Tribe. Tribes have been around nearly forever. Each constituent level can only hope to fight against foreign or domestic enemies at the… Read more »
Alzaebo
Guest

Can anyone here point us to civil war scenarios discussed on the Mainstream Left?

I’d love to know what the enemy is thinking.

Member
Al Z, there was an academic a few years ago who declared “we (the progs) have won the culture war and it is time to start shutting down the right.” It was typical entry-level Leninist stuff. Start taxing churches and right leaning organizations into oblivion (he wasn’t specific, but I’d guess Boy Scouts, civic organizations, etc). Tear down symbols of the old regime (check!). Disenfranchise bitter enders. He seemed to assume that no one would fight back. I don’t venture into the Antifa fever swamps, but I’d guess that’s a good starting point. But I’d imagine that their plans were… Read more »
Jerry Long
Guest

I imagine that Pence would commit suicide if he wasn’t killed in a plane crash.

Glen Filthie
Guest
Here’s how it will go: It’s obvious, even to the Donks: wherever they come to power, the pattern is always the same. Taxes, costs, crime and unemployment sky-rocket. Real estate values, earnings, and standards of living dive. This will only get worse, the nation’s neo-socialist states have burned through their own money – now they are going to have to pick the pockets of their neighbouring states and countrymen. The failed states will not accept responsibility for their conduct. They will say that they are ‘economically disadvantaged’ and the only FAIR thing to do would be transfer payments from ‘have’… Read more »
Dutch
Guest
Uncontrolled Immigration, cramped cities, angry minorities, and poverty feed the Progressive voting machine. So the Progs support all four of those things. They are so wedded to their ideology that they are willing to burn down the culture to see it implemented. Everything flows from that. Trump has thrown down the financial gauntlet with the SALT deduction limitations. The best defense is a good offense. The lesson of CW 1 was that dissent from the party line (“Union forever”—on the North’s terms) was unacceptable. They will try the same thing again. Trump’s genius is to move the country we actually… Read more »
Saml Adams
Guest
There is always a catalyst. You may be onto to something with SALT. Here in NY I can pop up Facebook and wade through 150 comment threads in purely LOCAL closed groups bewailing the impact of tax reform. The real impact on the blue state model is starting to dawn on people that were happily voting Democrats into office. Now, do I believe this will turn them in Republicans or that they will blame the Democrats that sat with their thumbs up their asses while it passed? Nope, they will re-double on their hatred of Trump and everything Republican. I… Read more »
calsdad
Guest
There is a common fear among the gun owning right wingers that the government is going to “take the guns”. The problem here is THAT WOULD BE EXTREMELY HARD. In order to make it really work – they’d have to do it nationwide all at once. Any small effort to start with – would merely harden the resistance in other places. As was referred to in Zman’s post regarding how things played out in Ireland – things like civil wars and gun confiscation are not simple linear things. People make decisions , people change their minds – and their loyalties.… Read more »
PRCD
Guest
What’s to stop y’all from building 80% lowers? If a state were that dishonest with me (as mine is becoming), I’d find ways to circumvent the law too. The problem is the state likes to throw the book at the Great White Defendant, if they can catch him. Suppose you have to use your AR or want to shoot it and they’ve banned them – how do you do get around the laws? You can practice in the woods, I guess, but If you have to kill somebody I suppose the state would try to make an example out of… Read more »
calsdad
Guest
When AG Healey decided to change the law RETROACTIVELY – what she did was declare that law abiding citizens were retroactively criminals. It’s not easy to obey the laws regarding guns in MA. They’re often confusing and contradictory. Nevertheless – law abiding attempt to obey the law. So along comes an AG who declares that all these people who expended all this effort are now criminals anyway. I know a lot of guys who were beside themselves – and frantically trying to find a way to “obey” the law. I was a little bit scared at first – then I… Read more »
PRCD
Guest
Outstanding post, as usual. In CA we are seeing the same behavior from an out-of-control state government. I talked to a former Marine who’s about 10 years younger than me who works as an overseas contractor. He said he no longer follows CA gun laws and shoots in a canyon where he and others have set up steal targets. Building from 80% lowers is becoming common. The state has passed a law requiring you to stamp the 80% lower with a serial number and get permission from CA DOJ before you start working on it. I wonder how they plan… Read more »
A.B. Prosper
Guest
There won’t be a gun ban for a lot of reasons, Instead they’ll try to do what California is trying and restrict ammo or if possible ban it outright Thus far in California this hasn’t been a success, dealers in this state are supposed to have a special license but the State is either deliberately foot dragging or just inept or both The net result has been a high degree of non compliance from dealers. Gun law compliance is also very weak, as grotesque as it is we had a mass shooter a while back who built his AR from… Read more »
james+wilson
Guest

I have opinions and ideas on many subjects, and not one on how this will play out. If I were forced to bet twenty five cents on the way ahead, it would be that people will choose the weaker and more cowardly options available to them at each juncture of this dissolution, so whatever happens will take it’s time.

Wolf
Guest

I also don’t know how it will play out. But I do know that once people become red-pilled, they don’t go back. The trick is how to get normies red-pilled faster than our overlords can import the third world and continue to assault whites and our traditional values. It’s a race. The problem for them, is if they accelerate the process too much, they risk waking up more normies and increasing the likelihood of conflict.

baltbuc
Guest
Some type of catalyst needs to happen first, before we see CW2. The most likely is a financial meltdown. The crisis could start in the US or elsewhere but the flames will spread globally. Other possibilities are war (pick a hotspot) or natural disaster. Most Americans live paycheck to paycheck as it is. Government “solutions” will be controversial and require more pain. I see fierce opposing factions lining up on how to deal with the crisis. At first, the opposing factions will disagree about the crisis. But later they will shed that basis and devolve into the Red/Blue or Rural/Urban… Read more »
fodderwing
Guest

I’m not sure financial meltdown is the most probable catalyst to bring about civil war. In 1860 the catalyst was the election of a President that half the country couldn’t stomach.

james+wilson
Guest

The last two Presidents already fit that bill.

Member

If you want to see war just look at the RFRA dispute in Indiana a couple of years ago – a totally economic action where the oligarchs were able to impose their will despite having little connection with the state. That’s how they plan to rule in this country.

Member
I think civil war is unlikely, and the better term of art perhaps is “divorce”. I think what we’re actually seeing is the two basic ideological camps just basically looking at each other across the internet, and shouting, “F**K YOU, BUDDY!” Where you see the divorce – or the civil war, they’re not all that different really – play out is things like the recent tax bill and Judge Moore. That tax bill got passed for two basic reasons: 1) The failure to fully repeal Obamacare made 2) possible 2) Roy Moore, who won a contested primary against an establishment… Read more »
photom
Guest
Anyone who has a wet dream of a civil war, has definitely not seen one, been in one, yet alone see one on TV. Don’t even wish for this. There is no parallel or “game-playing” that can be done on this. None of you know how something like this will play out. Be careful what you wish for. I will venture to predict this much – Even if there is something that may resemble a civil war, the various factions and constantly evolving alliances will be phenomenal. The permutations are astronomical. You may thank our “diversity” for this and what… Read more »
El+Eff
Guest
On Civil War – In Z’s post and in the now 65 replies I see no mention of “the slam”, aka islam, and what part it so very definitely wants to play in American turmoil and destruction, whether that be achieved via the Ideological Subversion route (Yuri Bezmenov, Sun Tzu) or “otherwise”. In late 2015 Matthew Bracken wrote an 18 page essay entitled, “Tet, Take two: Islam’s 2016 European Offensive.” While Bracken’s prediction for European Civil War in summer 2016 did not occur, I would caution, as does Bracken, that while he might have been premature in his prediction, the… Read more »
calsdad
Guest
I’ve read Bracken’s stuff for years. The Tet Take Two was interesting – but ultimately failed to happen anywhere near what he predicted. As far as the ” forged an unwritten agreement to murder the weakest of the three * while it’s within their power to do so* “…… I would say that Nationalism is gaining – and the other two are declining. Much of international Islamic terrorism – has been fed by Wahabism – which was funded by the Saudis. Something just happened in Saudi – I don’t know if Trump had some back door talks and told them… Read more »
El+Eff
Guest
Carlsdad – Islam never retreats and has never signed an instrument of unconditional surrender – and it never will. It goes dormant from time to time, and some of those times are lengthy, but it never has and never will “give up the game” of converting or forcing (at knife point when necessary) all those in “Dar al Harb” to acknowledge that a slave owning child rapist was and is the “prophet” of a god that gives those who die for him 72 virgins to sate their ever erect penis. (While that last pentimento may “offend”, it also reflects with… Read more »
Mr. Frosty
Guest
“Hispanics have little interest in racial politics.” Is this a serious statement? La Raza? The Congressional Hispanic Caucus? Wow, this is really terrible. Useless “damn Yankee” drivel with a ton of GenX ignorance. Yankees, like me, don’t even think in terms of North vs South. Why concern yourself with a long defeated/subjugated enemy? Almost all warfare is 4th generation now. Technology makes things particularly complex because factions are no longer purely geographic. Drones and “kill-bots” will make a civil war less about raw numbers and terrain and more about data and how it’s used. I wouldn’t be a proud Yankee… Read more »
PRCD
Guest

Mexicans are about as racist as they come. About all they care about is their race, as a matter of fact.

calsdad
Guest

Factions are definitely not geographically restricted now.

The epic 4Chan trolling of the Shia LaBeouf “He will not divide us” Trump protest – proves that.

It was pulled off internationally – with spectacular results.

WanWeiLin
Guest

“Hispanics have little interest in racial politics.” ??? There are the mentally unstable La Raza and reconquistas.

Dutch
Guest

In my experience, the typical Latino wants to get along and make good (but is not afraid to leverage the system to his advantage, when open borders are offered). There is a strong religious (usually Catholic), family, and cultural milieu in which they live. The “La Raza” types are outliers, though the Latino college students are the ones who get steeped in the stuff at school. The Blacks, however, have largely had any religious, family, and cultural ties stripped away, so a much greater proportion of them go feral.

sirlancelot
Guest
Have talked with both sides ( conservative and liberal ) . Both seem to think there is some sort of conflict in the offing. Yet most believe they will only be spectators while the radical elements of either side fight it out. Personally don’t see anything happening . Europe’s invasion of third world savages continues unabated and the USA is a completely different country than the one I grew up in. Perhaps a economic collapse or a nuke lobbed at us from North Korea might trigger in Civil War ? Americans will have to feel a lot more pain before… Read more »
PropagandistHacker
Guest

>Perhaps a economic collapse or a nuke lobbed at us from North >Korea might trigger in Civil War ?

we should be so lucky….

J+Clivas
Guest

Too many subjunctives (this would… that would… )

whirlwinder
Guest

You failed to mention the effects of Islam within this civil war. They have a very large stake in the battle. They want shariah law in America and the ability to dominate us. Any talk of civil war without quantifying the Islamic impact is seriously flawed.

Fergus
Guest

Yeah we are one great united racial entity. I’d like to see the author walk through Harlem at 2am on a Saturday. He could preach racial unity before they carted him off to the morgue.