An Immoderate Age

Last week, this ridiculous article in the New York Times generated some attention on alt-right social media, mostly because it allowed for some petty bickering. Anytime the media does a story on alt-right people, the guys not mentioned take the opportunity to say bad things about the guys that were mentioned in the story. John Derbyshire said everything that needed to be said about the Times piece in this post at VDare. In it, he referenced his old column on the topic and the corresponding version from Jared Taylor.

Taken together, it is good example of how the hive mind is unable to address reality on its own terms. Mx. Audrea Lim, of the New York Times piece, cannot consider the possibility that there could be more than two opinions on a subject. For her and the others in the Progressive hive, there are good people, the people inside the walls, and bad people, those outside the walls. The good people hold the correct opinions, while the bad people have other opinions, that are all bad. That’s as much of the world she needs to know.

As you see with Derb and Taylor, there is a wide range of opinion on the Dissident Right about subjects like race, identity, immigration, race-mixing and diversity. Even the alt-right has a diversity of opinion on these subjects. Calling any of these people “white supremacists” is about the dumbest thing possible, but it is just one of the many scare phrases Lefty has for those outside the walls. Not only are there few, if any, white supremacists on the Dissident Right, there are more than a few non-whites.

The fact is, the Dissident Right, in all its permutations, exists because our Progressive overlords lack the capacity to understand nuance. Take miscegenation, for example. It is a fact of life that some very small number of females, of any race, will have a mating preference for males outside their race. Males are far less choosy, as their biology favors the shotgun approach to reproduction, while the female favors the rifle approach. This reality is just salt in the stew of life and if left alone, nothing anyone need worry over.

For people in the hive, this is an impossibility. You either completely and totally embrace something, or you completely and entirely reject it. It is why they squeal about homophobia if you are not enthusiastic about the latest perversions. The Progressive mind cannot accept the possibility of being indifferent to something. It’s why our television shows and movies are now packed to the gills with race mixing. Even though our rulers live like Klan members, there is no limit to the amount of race mixing they will pack into the culture.

The hive minded also struggle with abstract reasoning. Richard Spencer likes using the concept of an ethnostate to explain his opinions on race and identity. It’s a useful way of getting people to break free from the concrete world of the here and now to imagine an alternative ordering. Spencer is not advocating for a new country to be carved out of Canada as a new white homeland. It is a mental model meant to illustrate certain points about race and identity. The hive minded, however, assume he wants a honky homeland.

Diversity is the salt in the stew. Some races like more than others, but no people wish to be overrun by people not like them. The Chinese have always been careful to limit the number of non-Chinese into their lands and limit where they can go in China. Africans tend to murder anyone not in their tribe. Europeans, in contrast, are fine with cosmopolitan cities, where you see lots of diversity, as long as the home team remains in charge and atop the social structure. Like seasoning, diversity works in moderation.

That’s the core problem in the modern age. Our rulers lack anything resembling moderation. If a little immigration is good, then they want unlimited immigration. If a few temporary guest workers is good, they want the entire white workforce replaced by helot labor from over the horizon. The vulgarity of having Americans train their foreign replacements at places like Disney is driven by a near total lack of moderation. If one Hindu is good, a whole building full of them will be heaven on earth!

We live in an immoderate age. We saw that in the past election and we are seeing it now in the efforts to craft immigration reform legislation. No one would oppose a small, limited amnesty for some illegal invaders, who have been here for a long time. As long as it comes with tough measures to limit further invasions and protections against future backsliding on the issue. Trump’s wall creates a permanent lobby in Washington in favor of border protection. Programs like e-Verify alter the hiring culture to prevent labor abuse.

The package of proposals from the White House is reasonable and sensible. It is a practical response to a public policy problem. If the the compromise includes legalizing a few hundred thousand invaders, a civilized people can accept it. But the people in charge are incapable of moderation, which is why they blew up the talks and are demanding a blanket amnesty with no conditions. Again, the hive minded can only understand the world in binary terms. It is those inside the walls versus those outside the walls.

There is no reasoning with fanatics. As much as many on our side want to believe that practical issues are what’s behind the multicultural madness, the fact is the people pushing it are not reasonable people. They are all or nothing people. That’s why this cannot end well. The people in charge either succeed in pulling the roof down on the rest of us, or the rest of us are forced to do what is necessary to dislodge the lunatics that have seized the high ground of the culture. Moderation is not the answer to fanaticism.

This will not end well.

69 thoughts on “An Immoderate Age

  1. I was born in Liverpool. Both of my parents were born in Liverpool.
    All four grandparents were too.
    There was some miscegenation in the previous generation when one of the eight was born in Lancaster, fortunately in the county of Lancashire not the old enemy Yorkshire- The wars of the Roses are, of course, a recent affair.
    I have perverted the bloodline having taken a wife of Swedish origin.

  2. A hundred years ago I worked in a vibrant and diverse workplace building electrical switch gear. One department was exclusively pakies, another was exclusively oriental and in another, the whites had a few tokens.

    In any event, if I recall correctly, our lickspittle manager hired an east indian that was either a hindu or a shik and parachuted him in with his fellow browns – and all hell broke loose. I wish I could remember the ethnicities, but apparently one tribe did not get along with the other, and WW3 broke out. It culminated with one of the brown fellas going after another – with a power drill! There was some screaming and yammering and a little blood – and the rest of us stood back and smirked as we watched the show.

    Funnily enough the whole incident was swept under the carpet and not A SINGLE WORD was said about racism, hateyness or discrimination. To my knowledge no charges were laid either.

    Who woulda thunk it.

    • No different that growing up in S. Florida in the late 60s/70s. Never realized what a hierarchy there was in Caribbean and Central American Hispanics. Cubans were the aristocracy, Venezuelans the Clampetts–money, but white trash, Puerto Ricans hated Dominicans, Costa Ricans were superior to all….and so on. It was fucking complicated.

  3. “Europeans, in contrast, are fine with cosmopolitan cities, where you see lots of diversity, as long as the home team remains in charge and atop the social structure.”
    — e.g. I’m in a cheerful mood about all of the diverse weight-lifters in my gym as long as the sound-system’s emanating Classic Rock, but when the background noise is Hip-Hop I start feeling embattled.

  4. Jarad Taylor wrote this: “And what do you think about gays?” My reply: “I sure wouldn’t want my daughter to marry one.”

  5. Interesting how as long as we’re talking about black:white race mixing the progs are good with it. Especially if it’s a black male with a white female.

    No one is going to write any editorials about any fetishes there, under pain of being classified with the deplorable racists.

  6. I think you also have to consider that there is likely a deliberate and coordinated campaign underway in mainstream media outlets right now to boost the background noise of hysterical nonsense in order to obscure any signal that would benefit the White House on any policy issue whatsoever. Hit pieces attacking Trump or the alt-right (which is really just a media catchall term for Trump’s base) in some fashion like the “yellow fever” NYT article in zman’s blog post are being churned out on a daily basis now. We saw this happen last week with the coverage of the “shithole” remarks, we’re seeing it happen today with the allegations of Trump’s supposed affair with a porn star (who gives a shit?), and we’re likely to see it continue in perpetuity until Trump is no longer in power.

    Zman, I really hope you would write and podcast more about the media environment we’re experiencing right now. I’ve never seen anything like this in my lifetime. I used to think of CNN as a fairly reliable (if somewhat surface level) source of information, but today it’s basically a 24/7 shriek of “TRUMP BAD” being broadcast far and wide. The New York Times, the Washington Post, MSNBC, and pretty much any big media name besides Fox News (which has its own problems) are in lockstep in their relentless efforts to oppose Trump and shape the battlefield for the upcoming election cycles. That’s also to say nothing of social propaganda being injected into entertainment like movies, tv shows, video games, and even sports now by the same media conglomerates. We’re seeing a full court press on information war and it almost certainly has contributed to the immoderate stances that people take on the issues you talk about. It’s really a tired cliche to bring up 1984, but the comparison must be made to many of the themes present in the book. Wrongthink and Big Brother are now an observable reality, and it really is unpleasant to experience.

    One wonders how things are going to play out with what is looking like a tremendous political scandal on the horizon with the Steele dossier/NSA election spying business. Here is a good summary of what’s out there right now: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/953023592698142725.html. How are progressives going to fit what looks like massive and bone-deep corruption by their idolized Obama administration into the good team/bad team pablum they immerse themselves in on a daily basis? As you say, this is probably not going to end well.

  7. I’ve had the same idea: the elites “lack moderation.” If you suggest miscegenation should be discouraged, they think “death camps” and respond by making it compulsory for all. I’ve quoted a story of Alan Watts’ about a Hindu king who wanted to pave the roads with leather; his wise man carefully suggested … O King, live forever! … that it would be simpler to have shoes made. Every “issue” becomes not a search for a rational answer but an excuse to upend the whole system and reformulate it from top to bottom. All bathrooms must accommodate the gender confused! All stairs must be banned and replaced (at great cost) with ramps, etc.

  8. “The fact is, the Dissident Right, in all its permutations, exists because our Progressive overlords lack the capacity to understand nuance.”

    Progressives operate from the premise that discrimination, that is, asserting any preference for or difference between alternatives, is immoral in the social sphere. It’s why even low-effort, banal opposition like asking “are traps gay?” gives them a collective aneurysm – the obviously-true answer violates their First, Last, and Only Commandment.

    They understand nuance enough to recognize that nuance necessarily involves deviating from pure indiscriminateness, which is the only position their morality allows them to take. They know that any position other than their own must have been arrived at by discrimination, and so will oppose any alternative no matter how reasonable.

  9. That’s always been one of my biggest gripes with Proggies: They claim to love “nuance” and “shades of gray” and whatnot, but they’re actually the most binary people on the planet; everything’s all good or all bad, forever. Everything is either totally cool, or the worst freakout evar!! If I wanted to be ruled by my Borderline Personality Disorder ex-girlfriend, I would’ve married her.

  10. The “ethnostate” is the ideal, in much the way Donald Trump would explain how he makes deals in his book, “Art of The Deal,” IMO. A starting proposal, a future vision.
    By this, I mean you don’t want to put a fine point on any specifics, especially early on, that might box you in, & you also want to push for the very “best” deal, (100% white ethno-state), knowing that it is possible that somewhere down the road, if things go sideways, you might have to settle for something closer to pre-1965 90% “etho-state.” Or, at least, that’s how I see it.
    Perhaps I’m the one is reading Spencer all wrong.
    As for the AQ, (the Asian Question), and the people mentioned in the NYTs article, (I know it’s a just a silly nothingburger whinefest, but I’m going to address it seriously), Mike Cernovich & Kyle Chapman aren’t members of the Alt-right, (as they will both attest), neither Andrew Anglin or Richard Spencer have dated Asians in quite a long while, Tila Tequila is nothing more than an attn seeking porn star who showed up to an event to get some press, and Derb is more Dissident Right, rather than Alt-right, due mainly to the fact he has no objections to miscegenation. It took me less than a minute to destroy the premise her whole article is based upon. That said, I am unable to confirm, at this time, as to whether Alt-right 4-Chan anons are or are not, indeed engaged in 2-D waifu relationships.
    The Alt-right proper is a white, Anglo-saxon preservation movement, full stop. You know whether you belong within those parameters, or not. This does not mean you cannot be a part of the loose coalition of the online Dissident Right, if the former isn’t your bag, in fact, I’d strongly urge you to find a place in one or the other. It surely will beat getting eaten by the future Prog masses, white man.

  11. Using Klansmen’s living standards as a metaphor for the standards enjoyed by the culturati and controller class doesn’t work. The Klan was a self defense coalition among poor and middling whites in the Reconstruction South. Yankees turned negroes loose with special police powers, backed by Federal garrisons and carpetbagger judges.

  12. It’s always helpful to get to the root of a problem. Progressives are parasites by nature and practice, and they live in constant fear that the host will one day choose to rid themselves of this scourge. That is the reason why they are so extreme in their wailing and desperately strive to control everyone else. They perceive that they are fighting for their very lives and tyranny is their survival strategy.

  13. >Diversity is the salt in the stew.

    It’s more like pepper, diversity, a little bit is good, but the whole shaker worth ruins the dish. A few Mexican restaurants are fine, but when the whole town smells like donkey, we have a problema!

  14. The problem over on the right IS the diversity of opinions and philosophies. At least when ranged up against the left. Been using gym time to listen to Jordan Peterson’s lectures and recently ran across Rogan’s three hour interview with Peterson and Brett Weinstein. Once you get into the post modernist mindset that everything in society is about power structures–to the point that even engaging the current “power structure” with words is, in fact, violence, everything makes sense. Goes a long way towards explaining the batshit crazy behavior. Even negotiating on DACA is now risking the violence of words. Debate is the violence of words. Saying “good morning” is the violence of words. Going to the State of the Union is the violence of words. Listening to Weinstein (an evolutionary biologist) describe his Evergreen experience was pretty damn interesting.

    • Diversity of opinion on the right is not a problem, it is the reason the right is full of discovery. Better men gravitate toward better arguments. The term “diversity” leaves a bad taste because it has been corrupted by the left along with innumerable others until they become what Hayek called weasel words, their meaning sucked out like a weasel is said to suck the yolk from an egg while leaving the shell intact.

  15. Weird things are going on. And by that I mean, seriously weird.

    Apparently, the deep state tried to nuke Hawaii last Saturday. For realsies. And the missile was shot down by the good guys. But that’s crazy talk. Everyone agrees that was fake and the alarm was just some elderly Japanese man who pressed the wrong button that set off alarms including claxons not connected to his system. So apparently this old Japanese gentlemen hit a button, that needs to be hit twice to actually send the alert, and somehow magically that also triggered a bunch of other alarms that are not connected to that button. Okay.

    Other sources are saying that the alarm caused a download to the mainland of secret NSA files kept separate by the bad hats in NSA from CONUS including the 30,000 classified Hillary server emails, that purportedly only had to do with yoga and recipes. So it is almost if Trump knew the bad guys were going to try to start WW3 and he let them fire a missile that he shot down, and it turns out that records he needed to hang Hillary got automatically transferred to Trey Gowdy. I know, crazy, right?

    Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Comrades, the only patriotic thing to do is listen to our betters on the mainstream media to eventually tell us what to think, and ignore everything else we might hear.We do indeed live in interesting times.

  16. Apathy on issues is not allowed. Apathy is the opposite of love or hate, in that love or hate inspire passion, while apathy is just “meh”. No triggering of the pain or pleasure centers of the brain, which is the root of all the agitation going on—dull brains in a time of no unmet fundamental needs must be stimulated.

    Which leads to the “straw man” argument. We are overrun with straw men. To not passionately agree with ridiculous things is to be a hateful person. Chuckie Schumer is the father of so many straw men, it is how he rolls.

  17. I tend to think of people who are not visually white as white when their actions and cultural habits demonstrate them to be so. The blacks do the same thing. Barack Obama is basically a white man in blackface. His wife and kids are full-blown niggers.

  18. I’ve been following Spencer’s writing for a while now and do not think his concept of a White ethnostate is merely a thought experiment. It has become a moving target as he “evolves” from conservatism and takes it towards a New Norway type of socialist utopia, with lots of freebies to entice the White middle class to come aboard. His only consistency has been strict racialist exclusion. And while Spencer may be quite reasonable in person I don’t have such illusions about some of his acolytes who would be quite severe if you don’t pass your 23-and-Me test.

    • Faaa, Spencer is homosexual. This is why he is allowed to speak engagements on campuses. The Establishment is subtly moving whites behind him. A homosexual isn’t heterosexual. Without the anchor of household formation and children, Spencer has no territorial imperative driving his policy.

      The jew queer Frank Collin was leading NS movements in Detroit in the ’70s and ’80s. The British white movements were also destroyed by homosexuals infiltrated in by British security during this period.

      Homosexuals are a demoralization strategy.

  19. “the hive minded can only understand the world in binary terms”.
    Except when the question of gender comes up.

  20. Human sacrifice. It’s the foundation of all totalitarians. The current progs have discovered that we cannot be persuaded. Therefore we must be eliminated. I fear they would rather die than accept defeat. If so, we must be heads up and understand that an all or nothing religion is lethal. Believe what they say because they mean what they say.

    • Canada is cucked beyond belief, and fully intent on replacing its original European population, as a recent article there pointed out, largely to indifference…

      • Yes, it is a bit of a shock to see how much Canada has changed since 1990. Toronto and Calgary were quite livable then, but I don’t know if I would want to live in Toronto now. I guess what scares me now is the realization that that type of rapid change could happen anywhere, if politicians decree it to be so. Look at Western Europe.

        • My wife is from Toronto and I’ve visited every summer for the past 16 years. The changes in just that time are profound.
          The only positive aspect is that the bulk of the immigrants are Asian, and although they are very ethnocentric, they are not bringing violent crime.
          Of course, violent crime has risen significantly in parts of Toronto, due almost exclusively to the children of West Indian immigrants mimicking black american ghetto culture and all it’s dysfunction, but that criminal activity is no where near what it is in the U.S., and Canada seems intent upon importing as many Asians as possible, thus dampening the potential chaos too many black kids will bring.
          For “legacy” Canadians, the effect is still quite jarring, and you will hear them complain about it privately over a glass of wine when they think no one else can hear them.
          Cucked doesn’t quite capture the depth of the cultural surrender going on in Canada.
          White people really are insane.

          • When one of my kids was running track, used to spend a lot of time around meets it the NYC area. Most of the people there were West Indians (track is their religion). Majority utterly despised the “locals” and were not closed mouthed about it at all.

  21. It seems to me that America has always been wracked by moral absolutism and/or moral panics. The French must think the #metoo thing is insane.

  22. Immigration is always thought of as being either good or bad. Or legal immigration, good…illegal immigration, bad. People have no concept of the numbers involved and how they compare with the numbers in the past. It’s always thought of as the floodgates being wide open or the doors slammed shut.

    “We’re a nation of immigrants” is all they know and any talk about restriction and moderation is un-American to them. Bring up the Naturalization Act of 1790, which restricted immigration to whites and they look at you like a deer in the headlights.

    • Much of the 1924 Act was aimed on pinching the flow of anarchists and communists from Europe. And not without justification. Post WWI history is largely understudied and there is very little knowledge of how close much of Europe came to revolution in those immediate post war years. Once the socialism in one country vs. international was solved by Stalin’s accession things calmed down. But no different then Germany, France, etc. the US was a target. That there were other unanticipated consequences was not appreciated at the time…

      • Two million Eastern European Jews were shipped in between 1880-1920.
        A far bigger mistake than Teddy The Swimmer Kennedy’s ’65 treason.

    • He regularly talks about it as an ideal, rather than a practical reality. As a way of thinking about the world, it is perfectly fine.

    • Spencer talks about the ethno-state being far into the future, and more as a big-picture concept, and as Zman says, a different way of thinking. That’s why he gets annoyed when someone like Sargon tries to trip him up with his “how do you define white” questions.

      I think what most of us would be happy with is a nation with a clear white majority, rather than insisting on a pure ethnic state, which would be pretty difficult to achieve at this point.

      • Yes. It would also be nice to be able to have largely white states and communities stay that way without the Feds “fixing” them to make them more diverse with vouchers to cover moving costs, Section 8 housing, etc. It would also be nice to see an end to the “flight from white” as Sailer calls it–the drumbeat of anti-white material in advertising and entertainment, and with that the encouragement of everyone with a whiff of “diverse” DNA to self-identify as a minority. Jared Taylor was talking once about the unpleasant thought of whites getting old in an anti-white society where the majority of hired help in retirement centers, hospices, etc. will likely be non-whites drenched in propaganda about how evil the people they are taking care of were when they were younger.

        • Interestingly, out here in the suburban west, a preponderance of the care providers are Filipina. They seem to come here unencumbered with any race-connected baggage, and in fact, they admire “America,” are grateful for the opportunity to avoid abject poverty and appreciate that in coming here they can take care of their families.

          After two previously unsuccessful marriage ventures with American born females, i married one of those care providers — my father’s hospice nurse — and could not be more fortunate. In this case, she is fascinated by her concept of America — which is the America that was. She listens to old music, watches old movies (western and film noir), and generally thinks America is a wonderful place … even though the America she sees in her mind, the one that holds in the mythology of these poorer Filipinos, is perhaps long gone. She and almost all I meet are courteous, polite, dedicated, compassionate and grateful. Most that I know completely lack any sense of entitlement, and none — not one — has evidenced any animosity against America. As an aside, they like being in America, learing about our country and history, and enjoy doing American things … My wife even wants to learn how to shoot.

          This is not to say that there are no issues with this population, and of course, their educated and political elite classes are as infected by lunatic leftism as ours … and in the Philippines they lack even the tattered remnants of any meaningful controls on corrupt or lunatic political behavior.

          But by and large, what I’ve seen of the care provider population, relative to this one sort of immigrant labor, suggests that they are not likely to absorb (quickly) the anti-American, anti- white male ethic that has consumed (or been inculcated in) other ethnicities. Just be sure to get a Fililpina home care assistant when you finally roll into that adjustable hospital bed for the last time ….

  23. As a brief aside on the NYT article mentioned at the start, there are some logical explanations if you give things a moment of thought:

    1. Non-Muslim Asians seem to integrate into Western Civilization better than other outsiders or even African Americans who’ve lived their whole lives here.
    2. I would speculate that Asian women are afflicted with the cancer that is feminism at a far lower rate than white women.

    • Regardless of their politics, English-speaking Chinese girls are friendly and polite rather than disdainful and irritated when they interact with somewhat awkward but clearly non-malevolent men in ordinary situations, so I imagine that this makes follow-up conversations and eventual matings more likely.

  24. I noticed Chuckie Schumer is demanding that Trump cave on all their points on Immigration if he wants to show he is not racist.

    You do not negotiate with these people, there is no give, reason, or moderation in their corrupted souls.

    Israel is getting ready to send back I believe 40,000 Africans back to their shithole country. Any objections from Chuckie and his crowd?

    • This is exactly why the RINOs keep getting rolled. They assume Schumer/Pelosi/Durbin are gentlemen statesmen just like themselves, so they move further and further left to maintain comity. RINOs and NeverTrumpers keep repeating that Trump would be so much better if he would stop tweeting and moderate his tone. But it’s his “I don’t give a $hit” attitude that makes the whole thing work. He keeps calling the bluffs of the Left, and we can better see them for what they are.

      • They mostly get rolled because they are funded by the cheap labor Billionaires, but some may be naive…

      • Dickie Dirtbag was the plant at the meeting. He has a history, rivaled only by Harry Reid for uttering complete bullshit in public–usually in the protection of the Senate well. This was all about shifting a debate they knew they were losing.

      • “They assume Schumer/Pelosi/Durbin are gentlemen statesmen just like themselves, so they move further and further left to maintain comity.”

        I beg to differ. The RINO’s know exactly what the S/P/D axis is about, since they are on the same team. I know most Americans have been cowed about believing in conspiracy theories. After all, “good” Americans don’t want to be tinfoil hat wearers anymore than they want to be racist. “Its just so vulgar and déclassé!” Just ask yourself this: Wouldn’t the Republican Senate and House occasionally make a mistake in our favor if they were just naive or incompetent?

        • They are merely different wings of the same bird of prey.
          Sometimes the Republican filth are the ratchet, sometimes the pawl.
          All are the enemy.

    • Israel is sending back ALL the Africans, according to Netanyahu…And if Americans want to have a first world quality country, they will do the same with the millions of third worlders who have infested the US, demanding welfare and free medical treatment in the bargain…So I’m glad Schumer torpedoed Trump’s attempted compromise, because any form of amnesty always turns into wide open amnesty (as the Reagan amnesty did, when all the conditions were waived by the bureaucracy).
      They have to go back, all of them, or we won’t have a country in 30 years…

  25. Z, with regards to the lack of moderation in today’s media and politics:

    I am seeing A LOT of methamphetamine use among the university professionals I encounter. Also, the drug has jumped from the club scene to infect the urban literati who enjoy its fleeting emulations of energy and intellect.

    Meth: its not just for rural rednecks and gay house parties anymore.

    Spend just ten minutes observing a sketching tweaker on the 32nd hour of a three-day binge and you will see the same disjointed, fatigued and panicked desperation that is typical of today’s media and political elite.

    Drug tests for WH reporters? A good move but what about editors? Or “administrators” at colleges or on social media? It is rotten all the way down

    • And then there’s the Adderall – essentially the same thing, but prescribed for the mostly made up illness of adult ADHD.

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