Winners And Losers

Mass movements always reach a stage where they can break through and become legitimate social forces or they can fizzle out and die. They either take the next step and begin to attract a larger audience or they reveal themselves to be a boutique fad. The neo-reaction movement of a decade ago is a good example of the latter. It was a big deal on-line for a while, but then it lost steam and faded away. Its two main idea men have moved onto other things. The alt-right is at the point where it either blossoms or it dies.

If a movement is going to outgrow the pot in which it was a seedling, the people in leadership need to regularly reassess. The New Left in the 1960’s went through several such resets, finally becoming an intellectual and cultural movement that swept the major institutions of the country. One of the early re-thinks for successful movements is coming to terms with previous failed efforts and failed leaders. The New Left figured out early on why the old CPUSA guys failed and made sure to avoid the same mistakes.

Last summer the alt-right fell into the  trap of Charlottesville and allowed themselves to be aligned with the bogeymen the Left has been using for generations to scare white people away from identity politics. Guilt by association is powerful stuff, because it works in a mass media culture. It really works when one sect controls the mass media. The result of locking shields with various white nationalist groups on TV was that the alt-right has become tied, in the public mind, to people who are proving to be unstable and unreliable.

The alt-right, if it is going to be anything more than Stormfront with better websites, is going to have to build its own thing, clearly separate and independent of the old white nationalist guys of the past. It has to stand alone and that means cutting all ties with the guys who like marching around in public pretending to be the freikorps. Whatever arguments can be mustered in their defense, there’s no getting around the fact these groups have had half a century to make their case and they have failed miserably at ever turn. That’s a clue.

Exclusively racist groups are not the only failures of the past worth considering. The paleocons were smart, creative and energetic, but they were outmaneuvered and eventually purged by the political elite. It’s hard not to admire guys like Paul Gottfried and Pat Buchanan, who have spent their lives fighting the good fight, but it is also hard not to notice that they failed. Sam Francis was a great thinker and everyone should read him, but there is a reason these super smart guys were never able to carry the day politically.

The reason they failed is they made the mistake of thinking the other side was reasonable and amenable to their arguments. The paleocons wanted to be in the club, not burn the club down. It was this desire to belong that was used to derail them. Even today, after all that has happened, these old guys still talk like this is just an argument between friends. It is this unwillingness to accept the enemy at face value that killed the paleos. If the alt-right is going to thrive, it has to accept that what comes next is revolution, not reformation.

Another useful lesson from past losers is getting the chain of causality wrong. For as long as anyone has been alive, right-wing movements have started with politics first, hoping to rally people to sway elections. The result in every case was the effort being hijacked by political opportunists, who quickly set about trading the goals of the cause for entree to the political class. The Tea Party is the most obvious recent example. It was an authentic grassroots movement that was quickly hijacked and sold off piece by piece to the GOP.

The one thing about rejecting the losers of the past is it clears the mind so you can objectively examine the winners. The winners of the post-war cultural revolution won for a reason. One reason is they built their politics on top of a cultural movement. The 60’s counter culture started long before the radicals of the 70’s started taking over Democratic politics. In other words, there were lots of people ready to vote for someone that spoke their language and understood their perspective, before the radicals entered politics.

I watched a documentary about the Weather Underground and one of the things that jumped out to me was a statistic. By the middle of the 60’s, Students for a Democratic Society had 100,000 members. The thing is, the group started small or grew quietly, focused more on building membership than activism. Groups like Identity Evropa may seem overly cautious, but the only way they can grow on campus is if the people in charge ignore them. If successful, there will be a time when they can’t be ignored.

Another valuable lesson from the New Left is they built independent organizations well outside the mainstream. Many of the fads of the era strike us today as being loopy and weird, but they served a valuable purpose. The radicals of the 70’s, who began invading the academy and politics, were born from these counter culture groups. Living outside the Eye of Sauron is even more important today, now that we have a full blown surveillance state. Public activism today is a good way to be flagged and destroyed by the state.

Related to that last point is something else worth noting from that documentary on the Weather Underground. The radicals of the 60’s and 70’s took every shot to establish who was inside and who was inside, especially when dealing with the media. They would charge establishment media a fee to attend their events, but grant free access to their guys. they would use insider language in public events, to make sure you knew if you belonged. It was highly effective at attracting and keeping people in the movement.

The alt-right, mostly through serendipity and dumb luck, has a chance to be a legitimate right-wing mass movement. That’s not going to happen if they keep blundering into unforced errors. The fiasco of the Traditional Worker’s Party should be a wake up call for the people leading the alt-right. They have to get smarter and they have to stop screwing up. The alt-right needs to get smart, or it will end up in the same dustbin of history as previous white identity movements. That means learning from the winners and the losers.

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Does anyone see any traditional PaleoCons or old right types stepping up and joining hands here? Look at the speakers corner fiasco in England. A few pretty Alt right or lite types try to speak there and get shut down. Tommy Robinson mans up and defies them. Who else? Where is the fight coming from? Why can’t someone like Pat Buchanan get in on it and show support. I trying to think of who is out there that one can take seriously as movement leaders. I don’t mean anti immigration types like Jared Taylor who is doing fine with his… Read more »

Wolf Barney
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Wolf Barney

Last night I watched Stefan Molyneux interview Tommy Robinson about the Pettibone-Southern arrest and later they discussed the horrific Telford sex grooming gang issue. It was difficult to get through as Robinson described in detail what the Islamic men did to these underage girls. Here’s a subject that should make any normal human furious, yet, except for a very few (Derbyshire), all we hear are crickets.

Primi Pilus
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Primi Pilus

Many good observations in the comment section here — As a retired military guy, I see clearly the problems we “traditionals” have at all levels with organization, planning, coordination and execution. All our efforts seems disjointed, and the factions generally falling on … this side … don’t appear to be working together toward any clearly defined objectives. Yes, I realize the arena of politics and culture is different from military operations, but the underlying reality is the same. Planning and execution is planning and execution. It’s funny that the LEFT (or whatever they are) seems so much better at coordinating… Read more »

calsdad
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calsdad

I think the answer to realizing what the core of the problem is to figuring out why the left always gains – and the right cannot seem to make much progress – is to compare the life of a thief vs. a productive man. A productive man has to deal with all manner of problems. Let’s say he’s a home builder, he’s got the weather, the potential of injury, sourcing materials, the time it takes to actually DO all the work – etc. There is a never ending list of issues that must be addressed and dealt with if you’re… Read more »

Primi Pilus
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Primi Pilus

Thank you for the comment. Certainly, their “method” provides them great advantage. The LEFT (?), or the groups they call to their banner, is certain willing to shrug off etiquitte — to heave aside the rules of gentlemanly struggle — and employ all means at their disposal. They go right for the Molotovs and war-hammers. Failing that, they do a credible job of setting up the bluff … our side, and the normals, at least THINK that they’ll just ‘burn it all down’ (see Berkeley, Ferguson, and a raft of college campuses). And sometimes, they do. We on the right… Read more »

ifrank
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ifrank

would have up voted you twice if i could have, Primi.

Primi Pilus
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Primi Pilus

Thanks. I’m suprised that anyone reads what I write down. I just got to the point that I had to scratch out some of these thoughts building pressure in my “aging boomer” mind. It’s nice to see one is not alone. Appreciate the response.

bpromethiusb
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bpromethiusb

i don’t usually like or offer driveby comments, but i understand and agree with your assessment with one exception. the head of the snake that is the left appears to be one thing, and may be another. every heard of the frankfurt school / gramsci / cultural marxism? these were supported and nurtured by very old $ from the beginning – not working to attract that old $ after proving effective. this has been going on for a while. griffin’s book “the creature from jekyll island” comes to mind.

Primi Pilus
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Primi Pilus

Yes …. I have a basic understanding of the Frankfort School, and more detailed knowledge of Gramasci and cultural marxism, though I am by no means an expert. I do see that the rot is long-standing and pervasive, and believe that we are likely doomed, as the core of what is driving this rot is a thing that lies at the center of man’s being itself. I see this as related to a comment on Obama’s “Arc of History” construct — and of its pointing to social justice. To my understanding, that social justice endstate they seek is and will… Read more »

Member

It’s kind of frustrating to be patient when we see the masses of people on the right frustrated with the establishment. It feels like one good spark and the whole thing will go up in flames, but the spark never comes. Everybody seems ready to say “Screw This” but the alternative just isn’t present.

Thorsted
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Thorsted

Communism collapsed without any internal opposition other than human nature it tried to undo. This could go the same way.

Karl McHungus
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Karl McHungus

It will. All this talk about creating a mass movement is bull feathers. Sorry, but it is just a masturbatory revenge fantasy. Want to see how a genuine mass movement is built? Check out Munich in 1923. The only part of the 60’s left that was a genuine mass movement was the anti-war part, which ended in the early 1970’s. What made the left successful is that they “caught a wave” and rode it all the way in to shore. But they did not create the wave. Movies make it seem like only teenagers were acting out during the 60’s.… Read more »

Dutch
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Dutch

People were not only fed up with the uptight Puritan culture, they felt that these uptight people still made the Vietnam war happen. “The Best and the Brightest”, indeed. The culture was not only difficult to deal with, it was doing us no good, either. All of that has been flipped today. The culture of the Left has not only failed to take us to Utopia, it is burning down our society. Normal people understand that things are seriously screwed up. Huge majorities understand that the government and its proxies are spying on everyone, and that the elites have been… Read more »

Dave
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Dave

Karl finally made a great point ! I remember a lot of commenters here who thought Charlottesville was brilliant. I saw it for what it was… a total, possibly fatal, disaster. Spencer is David Duke 2.0, and the prestige media have highlighted him for a reason. The cathedral “creates” leaders of fringe movements, and then decapitates them in public to discourage normies who may have been tempted by the dark side. Karl is correct in noting that the hard Left rode a wave. They created nothing in the 60’s, but had a ready made rallying cry based around the Vietnam… Read more »

Duke of Deploraville
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Duke of Deploraville

I’d like to believe you (and haven’t down voted you), but where is the evidence? If you didn’t go online for a week, just got out of the house and listened to people, would you perceive that “a cold fury is building among the middle and working classes”? Sure, lots of people who might be described as alt-right are angry — but angry about what? A big part of the problem is that whites, even those who haven’t been brainwashed into hating themselves for their alleged racism, can’t think except in conventional categories. That means, primarily, economics. Those freaking socialists!… Read more »

Dave
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Dave

Good points. The left is overplaying it’s hand. They overplay it every day at every level. They don’t intend to stop. They intend on rubbing our faces in their agenda. This, both subliminally and overtly, rubs normies the wrong way. Even liberal ones. I don’t think there will be a massive, spontaneous awakening. I do live most of my life outside the echo chamber, and my experience, living in NYC, is that certain aspects of the hysteria of the left are beginning to worry normals, including liberals. As I mentioned above, I think the trans-mania, and the speed with which… Read more »

bpromethiusb
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bpromethiusb

there is nothing or no one more vehemently opposed to leftist globalist totalitarian insanity than a reformed leftist that has seen it from the inside, through leftist eyes. the guy punching these keys is one, albeit 16 years gone now.

PrimiPilus
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PrimiPilus

YES to getting sick of the BS and looking to new options ….. but it’s likely that critical among those will then be strong local groups …

Member

I wonder if something totally ridiculous happening and the over reaction to it might help move things forward.

This Nazi dog salute joke trial in England where the goofy jokester has been convicted seems like a good start.

LFMayor
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LFMayor

You find actions that others make ridiculous or shameful because they are anathema to your values. The left cannot be shamed into good behavior. Miserable brown people from third world shitholes cannot be shamed into self support or thrift.
Ayers and crew systematically had followers sleep with one another, puposefully breaking norms of heterosexuality and promiscuity. This broke down the individual sense of self, leaving a void to be replaced with something else.

In short: it’s quicker and cheaper to just kill them.

ChanChanRight--ActivePooter
Guest

yeah, you have some good points there…but don’t forget that back in the day of white nationalism 1.0, there were far fewer nonwhites/immigrants around back then…there are a lot more nonwhite faces around these days…and what about 10 years from now? 20 years from now? Time marches on and change occurs…how are whites going to feel about white nationalism 15 years from now when america starts to get a south-african vibe to it? White normies might be just a tad more receptive to white nationalism then…cell phone videos of the anti-white massacre in south africa is just getting started…that stuff… Read more »

Dupont Circle
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Dupont Circle

A possible future scenario is Washington, DC, where the whites are willing to sacrifice their lives to further feminism. Or at least suffer violence. They in certain ways like being victims, it gives them street cred and diversity points. They really hate blacks though. And vice versa. Its going to be very interesting how whites deal with Metro. The subway is essential for the future of the Washington, DC, area. Sadly, the metro union is led by a black woman who threatens disparate impact lawsuits after any discipline by white managers. So, the union is destroying the system through gross… Read more »

Toddy Cat
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Toddy Cat

Lots of truth here, especially with regard to the New Left and its incubation period. There are books from all the way back in the 1920’s, 1930’s and 1940’s that sound New Left themes. Read some Wilhelm Reich sometime, or read the original novel of “From Here to Eternity” – it’s very different from the Sinatra movie, lots of stuff that New Lefties could relate to. Contrary to what a lot of righties think, the Hippies, Yippies, Weathermen and Panthers didn’t just suddenly appear in 1968. Also, for what it’s worth, I can’t think of a worse name for a… Read more »

Severian
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Name-wise, I’d go with “Young America.” It’s even got a pedigree (not that anyone educated in an American school would know it). I personally favor “The Sons of John C. Calhoun,” but maybe that’s a bit on the nose….

Pimpkin's Nephew
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Pimpkin's Nephew

I like “the Divine Right Party” suggested in John Kennedy Toole’s ‘A Confederacy of Dunces’.

The party program is neither here nor there; I just like the name. It would shock and annoy the very people I hate, and would win -easily- the South, and uber-conservative Franco-Americans who still resent the capture of Quebec in 1759; it would be a base, damn it.

Dutch
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Dutch

“From Here to Eternity” was a shocker when I read it. Published in 1951? Wow. The Left has been at work for a long, long time.

roger
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roger

since the first comintern.

Member

Apart from the general interest in health food, nudism, “rational clothing” etc. in post WWI Central Europe, there’s a direct connection to the 60s hippies, from some barefoot German guy, though Nat King Cole (“Nature Boy”) to San Francisco. http://praymont.blogspot.com/2011/07/ur-hippies-from-germany-to-california.html

Darryl Licht
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Darryl Licht

Sailer has written on this topic several times. Worth a read.

Yak-15
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Yak-15

The logical discourse of the alt-right should be distilled into public talking points that do not appear identitarian, but in practice are skewed towards our side. This can open up the door to more of our ideas because it will naturally divide the opponents into easily identifiable camps. Over time, those differences will become impossible to ignore and our side will morph into adopting some of the more reasonable viewpoints amongst the alt-right. The issue to seize is affordable family formation for the middle class. That is the key to blasting our movement off the ground. It’s an idea that… Read more »

Dutch
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Dutch

Affordable “traditional” family formation for the middle class. It matters.

A.B. Prosper
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A.B. Prosper

Affordable family formation is incompatible with urban life and high population density We see this globally, in any society with an IQ 95 or more on average, maybe lower, the more urban a society becomes q certain income point the lower its total fertility rate. Its even slowly starting in Africa Throw in automation , immigration and female participation in the work force and you commit civic suicide. In order to keep profits high with lower wages you have to increase population with incompatible people, grow the state and still continue to increase efficiency Just as say trading Toys R… Read more »

LineInTheSand
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LineInTheSand

The deepest problem with American Nationalism (Fuentes) is that it is a bait and switch. A white conservative may be attracted to the patriotic aesthetic but he still loves MLK and judging people by the content of their character. When he realizes that the AMs advocate maintaining and increasing the white majority, he feels like he was tricked because the America he loves is about deracinated individualism. He will hold on to this love until harsh reality takes it from him. The Alt-Right only grows when whites are forced to recognize that most non-whites are fundamentally tribal and that a… Read more »

Wolf Barney
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Wolf Barney

The left is making it easier for that MLK-loving white conservative to understand racial and tribal realities by accelerating their anti-white campaign. As we’ve discussed a few weeks ago, it’s becoming Team Brown or Team White. Take your pick.

Wolf Barney
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Wolf Barney

Currently among the Alt-Right (loosely defined) the topic of optics is being discussed. Guys like Ricky Vaughn and Nick Fuentes are fighting a battle urging alt-righters to clean up their act, to dress well, use American red, white and blue imagery in their visuals, sell their message in ways that don’t turn off “normies” and to get involved in local politics to infiltrate the system. Vaughn and Fuentes both mention Sam Francis often, who pushed this strategy as a way to change politics.

Severian
Guest

People also forget that Hitlerism (as it then was) got going first and heaviest among university students. If I were an organizer for Our Thing, I’d start on campus. Nobody in America is more miserable than a white male college student. They can’t hit on girls, they can’t hang out with the guys, their professors openly loathe them, they’re forced to regurgitate propaganda 24/7 (even in STEM classes)… an underground dueling society like Himmler, Heydrich et al were into — call it something catchy, like a “fight club” — would have 10,000 members within a week. Since pretty much everyone… Read more »

Karl McHungus
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Karl McHungus

Reference please to “got going first and heaviest among university students”

LFMayor
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LFMayor

It’s always the energetic and impatient that start the pebbles rolling down the hill. The smart co opt the charismatic to help it along. The wealthy bankroll it. The verbose craft the message. Keep your organization merit based. If results can be demonstrated, the message/goals are simply stated and the anger is warm you can bake a cake. Funny mustache optional, ymmv. And for all you haters, even Gene FN Roddenberry recognized the potential of the model. Imagine my shock at age five of seeing my hero Spock in ThaWrong ™ uniform! Only much later did I learn logical dissection… Read more »

Severian
Guest

Karl McHungus, I forget, but probably Richard J. Evans, The Coming of the Third Reich. This is true of any political movement, though — university students have the background, the training, and, of course, the copious free time to noodle all this stuff out. Lots of freikorps headbusters were happy to bust heads for the SA when the Party got big enough, but the really Nazi Nazis were all in college in the 1920s.

Member

Good idea, tough to infiltrate. Dojos off campus?

Severian
Guest

That’s what I’d do. Word of mouth only, talk to the guy in the snazzy white baseball cap. Give the U no excuse for expelling you, and use their own resources against them to organize.

Member

What the alt-right needs is (1) leadership and (2) achievable goals. “Raising awareness” is valuable but gets you only so far.

Teaching people about the many falsehoods we’ve all been taught is valuable. Reminding white people that they have every right to be proud of being white is valuable. I’ve learned a lot just from spending time on Gab. But gadding about in Nazi uniforms and waving tiki torches around is scaring people, especially when people don’t even understand what you want.

A.B. Prosper
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A.B. Prosper

I’m a Right Winger , have read and listened to many of the WN nationalist leaders and I can’t tell what they want. Do they even know? Do those idiots really want National Democratic Workers Socialism an evil stupid ideology that failed in what a decades and change? If they just want snazzy uniforms, get a 3 piece suit Brooks Brothers and march with “liberty lanterns” it feels American is just as LARPY and less likely to scare the straights Hell a slogan like “1776 or bust” is just as White Nationalist in its own way and is tied to… Read more »

Issac
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Issac

“The other guy,” has a long history of infiltrating political dissident organizations and encouraging the worst possible behavior. TWP was almost certainly part of such an operation. So are many other outwardly garish organizations with violent rhetoric.

The “optics debate,” is a pretty good way to distinguish friend from foe. Anyone defending armbands and vintage hugo boss is going to happily lead you into a setup as they have done more than once now. Sunk cost fallacy keeps otherwise normal people locked into these bad crowds. Don’t let people who occasion to say the truth sell you on something stupid.

A.B. Prosper
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A.B. Prosper

I agree. Leftism is fundamentally a subversive ideology and method Think of Leftism as a reoccurring disease , it starts to pop up in times of great prosperity and societies with internal issues are doubly susceptible to it Its basically AIDS People on the Right who mostly favor free speech are especially vulnerable to it. The solution is a fairly unpleasant one, essentially you have to criminalize Leftism before leftism criminalizes the Right My opinion if we want to keep our free speech tradition which we do the best way would be a twenty year interregnum where Leftism is punished… Read more »

LineInTheSand
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LineInTheSand

The TWP leadership was composed of flawed, sincere, good men who were trying to organize our most beaten down brothers. I believe, from personal experience, that those in leadership were not infiltrators.

Issac
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Issac

Sincere people in the right don’t have the SPLC on speed-dial, nor do they spend money raised to “train blue collar guys in trade skills,” on trips to hang out with Golden Dawn in Greece.

LineInTheSand
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LineInTheSand

Our goal is a white ethnostate and we want movement towards that goal. Your disparagement of socialism is unimpressive. “Socialist” Scandinavian countries were great places to live before the immigrant invasion. Let’s argue about economics after we secure the demographic fundamentals. Personally, I advocate federalism, as the Constitution intended, where there can be a white Socialist Oregon cooperating with a white Libertarian Wyoming. One strong bond between both states together is that to non-whites, both states are populated by the evil Whitey.

Dupont Circle
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Dupont Circle

“Our goal is a white ethnostate”

They destroy entire countries. Do you really think they’re going to allow a bunch of Nazi, bigot, haters to break away in North America?

LineInTheSand
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LineInTheSand

Consider the alternative.

Dupont Circle
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Dupont Circle

The alternative is to stop running away and take back the cities.

LineInTheSand
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LineInTheSand

Until recently I owned a home in one of the most desirable zip codes in California. Eric Holder specifically targeted it for vibrancy because it was too white. Trump ended that program, but as soon as Trump is out, even if another Republican is President, that program will start up again. I wish you good luck.

Dupont Circle
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Dupont Circle

I don’t understand your argument. If you don’t have the Army, laser-guided missiles, drones, etc. how are you going to found a white ethno-state?

calsdad
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calsdad

I keep hearing “let’s argue about the economics after we get rid of the darkies” over and over again coming out of “alt right” types. The fact of the matters is that the Western world blew the shit out of itself – over ECONOMIC matters (capitalism vs socialism vs communism) – long before we were deluged with darkies. I’ve seen a number of paleocon type commenters make the observation that all the white people only started getting really pissed off about things like social security and welfare – once it became clear that the darkies were sucking up all the… Read more »

George Orwell
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George Orwell

It would be interesting to find Zman’s views on his prediction for the alt right immediately following the presidential election. He did predict that the alt-right would likely fracture.

Jay Karknee
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Jay Karknee

Some years ago Derbyshire referenced the parable of the iron room by Lu Xun. Google it if it doesn’t ring a bell. That really hit home with me. Sometimes (often) I think our ultimate defeat is inevitable and perhaps it’s better just to sleep through it. My natural pugnacity keeps me fighting but it’s very discouraging. We are literally losing to men in dresses. We are watching in real time the engineering of another pointless war over what a 3rd grader should see is a false flag. Republicans control all 3 branches of gov’t but they’re the ones being investigated… Read more »

LFMayor
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LFMayor

Dude, you’re on the right track. This is the thinning times. Leave the weak and seek the strong. This whole big tent idea that we need more than the other side has, or that we should welcome all comers is progressive weakness, infused through three generations of immersion.
Fuck that noise. Merit is based on tangible results. Surround yourself with the capable. And if you can only find three or four, then make shit work with three or four.

Member

Republicans control the Governership and both House and Senate in 25 States, last time I looked, yet the flow of State funds for Mexican Lesbian Dwarf-Tossing Studies continues unabated.
Put not your faith in Politics.

Pimpkin's Nephew
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Pimpkin's Nephew

“we are literally losing to men in dresses”.

Sounds like a final signal from a dying planet in some sci-fi movie; well done – and (literally) true.

Herrman
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Herrman

You all shouldn’t discount the Great Man Theory. While I generally agree with the criticism that Great Men and the changes they bring are products of their social environment and timing, that doesn’t discount their impact. They are the spark that ignites the bomb. Without that spark the issues just ferment under the surface. It should also be realized that revolution, especially violent revolution, is typically brought about by a very small subset of the population. Once these men (and they are invariably men) are sufficiently motivated by a Great Man, than it’s game on. Whether western civ is at… Read more »

Wolf Barney
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Wolf Barney

A recent online development that is getting more eyeballs on the altright are the “internet bloodsports” shows hosted by Andy Warski and Jean-Francois Gariepy. I don’t know where Warski came from, but he’s never been altright. JF has a scientific background, I believe as a biologist. He’s knowledgable about race. For those not familiar, they host long (over 3 hours) discussions with several guests about subjects such as the JQ, race, individualism, collectivism, the ethno-state, etc. The participants come from different camps, so the sparks often fly as they spar over their beliefs. A much-talked about example is when Sargon… Read more »

Tom
Guest
Tom

The Muslim brotherhood may b a good model.

LFMayor
Guest
LFMayor

For unwashed, filthy third world parasitical cultures devoted to an outdated social political structure?

They are net consumers, like locusts. Feeding on the works of others until their countries look like they do today.

Eradicating then would do much to strengthen bonds in a newly minted society.
Common purpose, shared strife and victory, all that jazz

Member

But remember, “goat fukkers” can’t possibly be dangerous. They ran Egypt recently and have a strong, covert, presence in the USA.

Dirtnapninja
Guest
Dirtnapninja

The Alt right got something very important wrong. You dont gain power from organising. You are able to organise because you already have power. 1) To organise, you need power. 2) To get power, you need elites. 3) To get elites, you to bring in new elites, you need to overthrow the current elites, or you need to convert the elites. The route to power for the right is convert some elites. To do this you need to change the culture. Entryism and slow, careful organising is important. But ultimately you win the culture, you win elites. Then you can… Read more »

Rhino
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Rhino

Organizing is a lot of work and takes an intense amount of time and dedication.

The right, including the alt, is far too lazy to do the work. That’s why they always talk about red pilling and other short cuts to growth.

The only thing that works is work. Can’t talk your way out of this mess with talk alone.

A.B. Prosper
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A.B. Prosper

Damn right. I’m more than willing to put in the work if anyone else is willing as well. We might be able to manage a peaceful solution If we can’t waiting around for collapse or for the other guy to act is just as much a fail train, Its not the time as we’ve just begun to fight the ideological war, hell to acknowledge as I’ve been saying for years that the Right doesn’t have an ideology beyond money cucking Once that’s done, putting in the political work and well organized getting harder, more ruthless and ready to fight if… Read more »

Tax Slave
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Tax Slave

I was just curious, mainly to see what happens next (the FBI knocks on my door?) so I went to the website and joined Identity Evropa.

Kodos
Guest
Kodos

I will say that the paleocons, Traditionalists, even neo-reactionaries can at least serve as intellectual sources for the Alt-Right. In other words, read their books (or blogs in the case of Moldbug). If you go the “safe” route of so-called respectable conservatism you will end up with defeat-equals-victory stuff from guys like David Brooks or Ross Douthat, trying to impress their liberal friends with how tolerant they are; or neo-con stuff which is basically the same as leftists on cultural issues anyway. For me it was bracing/shocking to read things don’t shy away from race realism or criticism of sexual… Read more »

Ivar
Guest
Ivar

“Alt Right” is just a name for a formless entity which promotes a few core principles. The face of the Alt Right is a handful of polemicists, who voluntarily have undertaken to promote those principles. Nobody has the authority to include or exclude, punish or reward. At best people will pull different ways and with luck a viable consensus will emerge. The main reason the old White Nationalist movement failed was not optics, it was because it was too early. LIfe was pretty good and the ”sane, objective people” were completely uninterested in rocking the boat. On the other hand,… Read more »

Tykebomb
Guest
Tykebomb

The Alt Right should focus on two alternate plans. One, ethnonationalism as the hypothetical ideal. If we invest too heavily in this we get bogged down in the ethnic cleansing argument. Two is white identity. A post national world will be based around race, just like Asian-american versus actual Asians, who hate each other in their home countries. The Alt Right should build that identity for “European-Americans” to survive the later half of the 21st century and beyond.

Ripple947
Guest
Ripple947

Molding was one of the neoreaction idea men, who was the other? And I’ve never heard of the Traditional Worker Party.

My 2 Centavos
Guest
My 2 Centavos

The left in the 1960s was a subversive movement that emerged within a society that welcomed its subversion. America in the 1950s celebrated the beatniks as manifestations of American freedom, idealism, and youthful energy. In the 1960s the counter-culture was celebrated as the embodiment of America’s spiritual values, at a time in which the most damning characterization of communism was its materialism – its lack of “spiritual” values. In contrast America had a rich fountain of “spiritual values” of which exhibit 1 was our youth, our counter-culture, beatniks, hippies, glam rock hedonists, yuppies and civil right supporters. Traditional America allowed… Read more »

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

You made up so much shit in the first couple of paragraphs, that I stopped reading your “novel” at that point.

Dupont Circle
Guest
Dupont Circle

They’re gonna have to move back into the cities. And they’re gonna have to start going to art and film school. Yech! But, I’m afraid so people.

You can write and read all the brilliant essays in the world but nobody cares.

Pimpkin's Nephew
Guest
Pimpkin's Nephew

You are right on both points. If we want to take back the culture at its base, we have to stop complaining about the fine arts and ‘infiltrate’ them, the way the enemy did. Robert Frost did not ‘morph’ into Maya Angelou as the “national poet” without such infiltration – obviously public taste had no part in this transition. We’ll have a chance when our naturally ‘conservative’ kids stop pursuing careers in banking and engineering and start writing poems and living in unheated attics. Let the SJWs run the power grid and maintain the interstates, the water supply system, the… Read more »

Dupont Circle
Guest
Dupont Circle

Your reply validates my assumption.

Pimpkin's Nephew
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Pimpkin's Nephew

Nothing gives me more pleasure than validating assumptions….

In fact all I am doing is cracking open beers after work and checking out what the gang is saying at Z-blog.

Dupont Circle
Guest
Dupont Circle

Cheers. LOL

Pimpkin's Nephew
Guest
Pimpkin's Nephew

A useful movie: The League of Gentlemen (1960) starring Jack Hawkins, Roger Livesey, Nigel Patrick and others. Hawkins plays a British colonel forced into premature retirement by a cost-cutting Labour government, who then decides to avenge his honor (and score a big pay-off) by planning and executing a “perfect bank robbery” using the organizational and logistical skills he’d learned serving his country, as well as the special skills of a small band of ex-army specialists with varied post-war problems of their own, personal, financial, legal and moral, generously splitting the take equally with all of them. It’s an alt-right film,… Read more »

Tim
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Tim

I have to say, PN, I do like the way you think!

Pimpkin's Nephew
Guest
Pimpkin's Nephew

That makes one, Tim. Thanks.

bpromethiusb
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bpromethiusb

make that two.

Dupont Circle
Guest
Dupont Circle

The big problem is that most people don’t care about content. They are more influenced and moved by form. It’s not what you say but how you say it. And this is a horrific concept for people who identify as conservatives; because there seems to be a bifurcation (in Europeans anyway) where some people are drawn to content and others to form. And it appears that self-identified conservatives who are more concerned with content are in the minority. Trump won because he understood this. He understands intuitively that images, gestures and sounds made in a certain way can influence people… Read more »

Pimpkin's Nephew
Guest
Pimpkin's Nephew

I don’t agree, not exactly in any case. Millions of people – God bless them – vote for ‘A’ or ‘B’ (the only choices our wonderful ‘system’ permits) and go about their business. They don’t read blogs or Aristotle, but they go about their work; they aren’t stupid – they just don’t waste time. Bret Stephens, Kevin Williamson, or NYS governor Andy Cuomo might tell them that they are unwelcome parasites tainting the land. It’s what Cuomo’s ancestors were telling the Seneca 250 years ago: Fuck off and die – we need your stuff and we’re going to take it.… Read more »

WanWeiLin
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WanWeiLin

Godwin’s Law aside, I am currently reading Mein Kampf. Hitler’s section on propaganda is quite a well thought out discourse on making a successful movement. By all measures he was successful in his use of propaganda to rally a nation…until he wasn’t.

Pimpkin's Nephew
Guest
Pimpkin's Nephew

I love Sarah Palin, a beautiful and desirable woman. She wrote a book. It sucked.

Hitler’s stuff makes Sarah – or her ghostwriter – look like Victor Hugo.

WanWeiLin
Guest
WanWeiLin

PN: True. I’m surprised at how much I’m enjoying the read expect for the racism theme.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

The left is “organized” the same way ant colonies and bee hives are — it’s all instinctual. They just throw a 1000 cadres at some issue, and count on at least a few of them “hitting the target”. Technology is going to break their monopoly on cultural production, just like it broke their monopoly on communications. Distribute entities (companies, teams, institutions, etc) are the key to breaking their hold on society; they can only thrive in large “bodies” as they are so harmful to the host. smaller hosts will die off too soon — to be of use — when… Read more »

Member

The Tea Party. At the point where Jenny Beth Martin became the grand poohbah, it was over.

Pimpkin's Nephew
Guest
Pimpkin's Nephew

Time for a new term: nihilo-con.

We reject all to the Left; we reject all to the Right; we reject all commitments; we reject the libertarians and we reject the lessons of Christianity.

Can it be that we accept some primal thing here? Or are we just like the enemy, divorced from the past?

Jennifer
Guest
Jennifer

I am not sure what’s required in the long term, but right now, today, we have Trump in the WH. I have been disappointed in him at times, but we will never again have a president who is outside the political establishment, and I wonder if we are doing enough to seize this opportunity. This weekend there will likely be a million people “Marching for their lives,” and the left will gain a lot press in favor of more gun control. There should be 5 million 2A supporters, but there won’t be. There should be at least 10,000 people with… Read more »

Primi Pilus
Guest
Primi Pilus

Yes … that’s for sure. But we are a different people from them, and I fear that means we don’t go in for such shows. However, at some point it will have to happen — our side will have to march to demonstrate our will. Consider, the LEFT fielded “millions” on anti-war marchers in DC during the Bush 2 administration, yet I was still sending units to theatre when I retired in 2012, four years after Bush was gone. So we’ll see what this accomplishes. Whatever they do, demand and legislate, the 2nd was put there as the final safety… Read more »

Ben
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Ben

A minor quibble: the paleo cons didn’t lose because they were too nice. They lost because they couldn’t match the funding the neocons had.

That is all.

ifrank
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ifrank

…so, maybe they couldn’t match the funding cuz they were too nice?

bpromethiusb
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bpromethiusb

chicken meet egg – or so it appears. rhetorical question – can any movement get anywhere if it has attracted the opposition of the money elite?

ifrank
Guest
ifrank

The alt-right needs a fearless, strong willed, charismatic leader who can maintain message discipline, set priorities – strategize. The movement is going no where without a strong leader.

James_Cooperman
Guest
James_Cooperman

Just so. And frankly, that’s really ALL it needs. Spencer is incapable of being a leader – he’s too weak as a man. I think Enoch has talent but isn’t quite tough enough, though TRS is incredibly useful.

Someone will come along. Just wait.