The High Cost Of Cheap Labor

From time to time, the claim is made that we need to import indentured servants from Asia, because the STEM fields are short of labor. This is a variation of the old line about crops rotting in the fields for the lack of stoop labor. The fact that no human living in America has ever experienced a food shortage due to crops rotting in the fields underscores the fact that these claims are nonsense. Indentured servants from Asia are cheap and more important, the threat of them depresses wages for American workers in the STEM jobs.

That’s the cost of cheap labor that is easy to see. There are other costs that are not so obvious. In the case of the tech fields, indentured servants from Asia have had the perverse effect of discouraging young Americans from going into these fields. When tech firms started filling entry level jobs with foreign labor, they made the field unattractive to young people, who correctly saw that jobs were scarce and the ones available paid low wages. Young Americans were advised to not go into technology, as a result.

Put another way, cheap foreign labor drove out domestic labor from these entry level jobs, thus institutionalizing the use of indentured servants in the low level tech jobs. Slavery had the same effect where it was practiced. In the case of tech, there is a social element involved. You go to college in order to get  a good job. That’s a social definition that goes beyond earnings. If your field requires you to work with smelly South Asians for five years until you can be the supervisor of smelly South Asians, that’s viewed as a low-status field.

There’s been another consequence to the use of indentured servants. People think of tech as coding shops in Silicon Valley, but the vast majority of American business relies on small local firms that bring a combination of technical and business skills to the their role as technology consultants. The usual pattern is someone works as a programmer for a developer and then goes out on his own as a consultant, supporting clients that use the software that he worked on as a developer. He becomes their part-time CTO.

The result of flooding the entry level jobs with middle-aged Asians on H1-B visas has been a shortage of people in these higher end consulting and development jobs. In many parts of the country, the shortage of people with a mix of business and technology skills that can be used to solve real world problems is acute. You can find plenty of pajeets, who can write code but are useless at solving problems. Locating someone with business and programming skills that can solve real problems is becoming close to impossible.

At the other end of the labor market, the hidden cost of cheap labor has created another problem. The landscaper hiring Mam-speaking tribesman from Guatemala is no longer hiring teenagers on summer break. Retail operators in vacation areas game the system and import Eastern Europeans for service jobs. The availability of cheap foreign labor has made the summer job a thing of the past. It used to be a part of growing up in America, but now it is a rarity. Instead, seasonal work is done by foreigners.

In general, the part-time job and summer job was when a young person started to learn how to be an adult. They had to show up on time and learn how to get along with strangers. They had to learn how to put up with a crappy boss and perform tasks that seemed stupid and pointless, in order to get paid. They also learned the value of money and its connection to labor. That first check, with the taxes taken out of it, was the great eye opener for every young American. Today, they don’t experience that until adulthood.

There’s another aspect to this. The summer job for boys was often manual labor, like operating a rake or lawnmower for that landscaper. Maybe it was as a laborer on a job site for a roofer or painter. It was there that a young man got his first taste of being a man, because he was around adult males in their natural habitat. A young man learned that men are not as forgiving as mom and that you had to be earn their respect. Young males today don’t experience this. Instead they live like girls through college and come out soft.

This is probably why millennials have such a terrible reputation among employers. The girls are spoiled brats, making crazy demands, while the boys are hysterical sissies. One of the things employers will tell you on the side is that they are very careful about hiring millennials. They would prefer to overpay for a semi-retired boomer than hire a petulant man-child from the millennial generation. When a millennial takes over a family business from a retiring parent, it is a good bet the company will go through a rough transition.

Public policy is about trade-offs. The cost of cheap labor is not limited to the direct cost to labor markets. There are hidden, long term social costs. The generations of young people warped by the consequences of not working will show up in the culture long after pajeet is back in Bombay wrangling cobras. What foreign labor does is it monetizes future social capital and pulls it forward. It is a form of debt creation, not a lot different than eating the seed corn. Future social harmony is consumed today, with no way to replace it.

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Ganderson
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Ganderson

Also unmentioned is the poor quality of service and support by people who are not adept at the speaking of English. Phone transactions with such folks takes a lot longer and is very frustrating.

GU1
Guest
GU1

It’s a lot harder to understand foreign accents on the phone for some reason. Even Brits and Aussies are harder to understand on the telephone.

Member

And by Brits, who do you mean? The Ulstermen? The Jocks? The Sheepshaggers?
Surely not the RP speakers of the globes Lingua Franca?

Warfighter1
Guest
Warfighter1

Don’t forget the Geordies! LOL

Tully Bascombe
Guest
Tully Bascombe

I’ve been on calls with pajeets where i couldn’t understand a single word, I’m told by others on those calls tha they were indeed speaking English.

Member

The economy is like the MLB with the major league teams and the farm system. You aren’t going to get native major league players when your farm system is filled with foreigners.

Juss Saeyn
Guest
Juss Saeyn

The H1-B visa tragedy was intended specifically to flood the system with marginally capable workers to 1) drive down wages 2) provide an army of little indentured servants 3) create elitist far-left tech billionaires

Juss Saeyn
Guest
Juss Saeyn

Anyone remember the video that surfaced fifteen or twenty years ago where some San Fran asshole immigration attorney is saying to an audience something like, “…and so it probably sounds like we’re telling you how to avoid hiring Americans… and that’s right! We’re here to inform you how to legally avoid hiring Americans!!”. Anybody else as pissed as I am with this shit?

Juss Saeyn
Guest
Juss Saeyn

Near us a big credit card company has brought in countless H1-B indentured servants. The blue-devil-god worshiping f-ers are f’n everywhere. Walking through a store there is like walking the streets of Delhi. The typical washroom in a gas station in the area sometimes has feces on the floor. And why, for every indentured servant, are there seven grandmothers and nineteen aunts and uncles and brothers and wives and sisters and grandfathers? And why do they all work at Walmart? Why do we need to bring people from the other side of the planet to work at Walmart?

Ganderson
Guest
Ganderson

Stopped to get gas in NE Ohio on my way back from Minnesota a couple weeks ago. The place was run by Indians, and was filthy, particularly the men’s room. Doesn’t the parent oil company care? Guess not.

Member

Cheap will almost always trump good.

tsnamm
Guest
tsnamm

Everyone talks about “quality”, but 90% off the time given the choice people pick the cheapest price…in business or as a consumer. Until purple learn how to look and choose value, the race to the bottom continues unabated.

Dr. Dre
Guest
Dr. Dre

It must have been the same place I stopped at on I-71 — but that (Marathon?) was several years ago and the place has been demolished. Hindu sales clerk glared at me while I told him that NYC subway toilets were cleaner that what I found in their “rest room.” I drive long distances a lot, so now I generally go to a truck stop like Speedway for gas and pit stops.

Member

I’ve been very successful by documenting the fuck-up to the CEO,Chief Marketing Officer and Chief Legal Officer.
Stuff tends to happen within a month.

Juss Saeyn
Guest
Juss Saeyn

A decade ago we took a trip to India and the signs on the side of the roads are hilarious. Something like, “Study at our university! We offer degrees in Landscaping, Brain Surgery, Stump Grinding, Rocket Science, Pimple Removal and Bridge Engineering. Most degrees can be completed in weeks!!!”

Juss Saeyn
Guest
Juss Saeyn

And what about the question, if the H1-B visa workers are marginally capable, why have them? And the answer is that the cost to correct their mistakes is calculated into the savings from not hiring Americans. And a bonus is, the tech billionaires get to play god, because on “plantation tech” the H1-B visa workers are literally slaves. H1-B visa holder disagree with you at the morning meeting? Then he can pack his bags and catch the next flight back to the other side of the world. (So readers here are aware that H1-B visa holders are literally indentured servants?)

John Derbyshire
Guest

It’s H-1B, fer crying out loud. Why is this difficult?

Maa Shyuejinn
Guest
Maa Shyuejinn

Not so different, then, from the South Asians who work in deplorable conditions in Dubai, Qatar etc., unseen and unsmelt by the beautiful people.

Juss Saeyn
Guest
Juss Saeyn

Years ago I heard some co-workers chatting with an H1-B type fellow at lunch and someone said he thought we needed a new senior Unix Sys Admin – to which the H1-B fellow replied, “That’s what I do!” Then someone else chimed-in and said, no, I thought what I heard was we need a new senior Oracle DBA – to which the H1-B fellow instantly exclaimed, “I am that!!!”

Yeah. Sure. I’m not saying they’re bad guys, they’re just playing the system that they’ve been invited to play by the NWO globalists.

Rod1963
Guest
Rod1963

These Bombay specials are unscrupulous scum. Guys like him are natural born scam artists that will rob a company blind or drive it into the ground. Why do you think their home countries are such shit holes? Because of them.

UpYours
Guest
UpYours

The ones robbing the company blind are white male scam artists like Ballmer and Immett, not “Bombay specials”

Troll King(-36)
Guest
Troll King(-36)

“What foreign labor does is it monetizes future social capital and pulls it forward. It is a form of debt creation, not a lot different than eating the seed corn. Future social harmony is consumed today, with no way to replace it.”

Very fine. At white heat. You penetrated the depth of the issue like I’ve never heard before.

Troll King(-36)
Guest
Troll King(-36)

Right, there is often some suffering invested in training future generations. To draw that logic of cost cutting to its logical conclusion, why not abolish schools altogether? They are very expensive and fraught with litigious issues, and provide no immediate profit. Large demographics derive no benefit from schooling at all, and in fact lessen the quality of education for others.

Member

Yeah, I thought it wasn’t bad.

Matt
Guest
Matt

A very useful twitter thread that adds to the story told by Z.

https://twitter.com/EricRWeinstein/status/942073493155229696

Tax Slave
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Tax Slave

I find it tedious to read Twitter posts as more than half of it is in unintelligible codes and what is supposedly in English is misspelled and full of grammatical errors.

Karl McHungus
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Karl McHungus

Might as well be in hieroglyphics.

DeBeers Diamonds
Guest
DeBeers Diamonds

A useful tweet showing how our corporate oligarchs urinate on the very same people that give them subsidies and tax cuts. Lolbertarians go to hell.

https://twitter.com/amazon_policy/status/1022188649260240896

Tax Slave
Guest
Tax Slave

Thank you Paul Ryan, Mitt Romney, John McCain….

Member

And the employer class who pull their strings.

DeBeers Diamonds
Guest
DeBeers Diamonds

Broke: Employer
Woke: Investor
Bespoke: Digital Latifundia

Juss Saeyn
Guest
Juss Saeyn

Years ago during a big pro-mass immigration debacle we came up with a new name for John McCain that has stuck. To this day we never, ever say his name, we always say his nickname, “Anti-American”. I’ve thought of buying a bottle of champagne to open upon his death.

Member

Is there any Vietnamese you can name who personally has killed more Americans than Insane McCain?

William
Guest
William

My uncle put himself through dental college with summer full time and winter part time jobs. When he graduated his “student load debt” was $0.00. Illegal and H1-B legal (not immigration) invasion has created the “student loan” crisis.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

More like the college administrators who have jacked up tuition to pay for ever more bloated non-teaching staff.

Cerulean
Guest
Cerulean

The invasion along with the soaring cost of higher education for those not considered “underrepresented.”

Severian
Guest

I worked long years in academia and I can promise you, H1-Bs didn’t create the student loan crisis — it was Griggs v. Duke Power. That, and Boomers deciding that since they had such a great time in college, *everyone* should go to college and there should be no trade schools. But if it’ll make you feel better, F-1 student visas are about the only thing keeping the American university system afloat, so it’ll crash sooner than anyone thinks…

John Derbyshire
Guest

H1-Bs didn’t create anything because THERE IS NO SUCH VISA!

John Derbyshire
Guest

H-1B! H-1B! For Heaven’s sake! Whadda you people, stupid?

Moran ya Simba
Guest
Moran ya Simba

A, are you actually John Derbyshire, B) isnt the placing of a dash a little officious?? The point of the debate is the effect of a particular visa type, not where particular dash goes.

Old Prude
Guest
Old Prude

That’s the real Derb alright. Trust me on that

Moran ya Simba
Guest
Moran ya Simba

Ok, thanks, interesting. Why is he so into the placing of a dash?? That seems besides the point and he clearly is a smart man.

Old Prude
Guest
Old Prude

And get off the lawn!

Member

This all boils down to contempt of people on the coasts for people in the hinterlands. Old as Western Civilization itself. Encompasses the entire history of ancient Athens. Whenever this sentiment wins in a country, the fate of that country is already written in stone.

Member

Heartland employers are just as desirous of cheap imported labor as coastal employers are.

the Super-Elite
Guest
the Super-Elite

Besides coasts vs. Midlandia…. we see, in general, the same treatment for the left vs. conservatives, globalists vs nationalists, and insiders vs. outsiders. The hearings are showing this clearly — when the globalist insider is doing the questioning, he talks to the other as if he were beyond contempt — not just rudeness, but as if….well, you know how it is. Then when the guy answering the questions is the globalist/insider, it happens in reverse — now the questioner talks normally, but the one being interrogated laughs, smirks, and refuses to give information — once again, treating the other with… Read more »

slumlord
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slumlord

One of the huge problems with Western education at the moment is the increasing specialisation occurring within its sub-branches. The problem with this specialisation is that produces an autistic approach to life which is unable to appreciate or factor in, second, third or fourth order effects in other areas outside the area of specialisation. Not being able to see the effects in other areas means that the autist optimises for his particular field to the detriment of the other interconnected areas. It’s a huge problem in Medicine, particularly the American variant, and is in a large degree responsible for your… Read more »

Member

If Donald Trump would hammer this message home every day, he could be president for life. But he’s of the employer class and is loyal to it, so he doesn’t.

DeBeers Diamonds
Guest
DeBeers Diamonds

A constant refrain from union members was how he and Ivanka made their merchandise in China, and how he was employing H-2B (Eastern Europeans) at his properties (rich people don’t want Black/PR servers). The more erudite noted that his construction employs lots of union members, but that’s not worth as much given that the infrastructure bill was forgotten.

Arch Stanton
Guest
Arch Stanton

Another hidden downside to the importation of cheap labor is that the practice tends to retard technological innovation. Certain industries, meat packing comes to mind, put off technology upgrades because they can more easily control their costs with the use of cheap labor – and – they don’t have the initial capital outlay required to implement new, labor saving technologies. In other words, the addictive drug of cheap imported labor tends to stifle technological progress.

UpYours
Guest
UpYours

If that is so, why is it the tech industry reached its innovative peak in the 80’s and 90’s when it was heavily using imported labor.

A b c d
Guest
A b c d

The summer job will exist for the children of the rich, whose parents either own businesses, have connections to those who do, or otherwise have institutional clout in corporations/gov/nonprofit/etc. Also for the children of the White lower class, many whose parents are not even high school graduates themselves. I agree that the lack of acclimatization to work is a problem, however I can see a silver lining: we need fewer and fewer workers every day to produce all the stuff we could ever want. IF we fight our way out of this mess before the consequences of current policy destroy… Read more »

james wilson
Guest
james wilson

The flood of indentured servants has perhaps also coincided with the rise in “intern” work. The kid who wants a leg up into an industry works free for experience and connections because there is nothing otherwise.

DeBeers Diamonds
Guest
DeBeers Diamonds

Unpaid interns should be banned, as only the rich can afford to work for free. But the GOP won’t target its Woke Capital donors, how else would they score that no-show job in lobbying and directorship when they are inevitably voted out and replaced by Ocasio-Cortez types?

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

The harvest. We have lost the ancient rhythms of the harvest, thanks to imported slaves.

Moran ya Simba
Guest
Moran ya Simba

‘…long after pajeet is back in Bombay wrangling cobras.’

Frankly what an idiot statement, condescending and stupid. Disappointing. Besides, he’s not going back to Mumbai to ‘wrangle cobra’, he’s going back to write advanced software. But it’s also better for India that he goes back instead of joining Silicon Valley.

Juss Saeyn
Guest
Juss Saeyn

It’s Z’s website and he can write what he wants… but I agree, how much better for the world if we end the farcical charade that more “tech” workers are needed in the US and all the “tech” immigrants would take their talents back to their home countries where they *are* genuinely, actually needed.

Moran ya Simba
Guest
Moran ya Simba

Yup, we agree. But Im just saying, that kinda bar fly language, ‘smelly South Asians wrangling cobras’, that’s gonna retard growing the ‘dissident right’. And also, India shouldnt move to America. But, racially and politically, Indians, in America and on the world stage, are gonna be whitie’s most important ally.

Juss Saeyn
Guest
Juss Saeyn

There is an element of humor in all meaninful human discourse… however this website tends towards the extreme, which tends to make it refreshing… and I do acknowledge that the Indian folks are not necesarialy not allies… however the world and emotions are complex

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

As the wise and clever 27 year old observed over at Steve Sailer’s blog, “I’m playing the world’s smallest sitar for pajeet. The tune goes like this: “Womp womp.”

Tully
Guest
Tully

Shut up. No one gives a shit about your precious little feelings.

Moran ya Simba
Guest
Moran ya Simba

fuck you lol

Tully Bascombe
Guest
Tully Bascombe

You have to go back.

Hoyos
Guest
Hoyos

Lighten up dude, it’s toss off guy humor. I’ve been made fun of for “white” stereotypes at work, I mock my best friend for being from Kansas and he mocks me fir being from the south (a lot of corn related jokes both ways) it’s clearly just screwing around.

fredcdobbs
Guest
fredcdobbs

My friend—if you didn’t do a spit-take when you got to the ‘wrangling cobras’ line……you have no sense of humor.

Moran ya Simba
Guest
Moran ya Simba

Maybe. I just thought it was such a dip in quality from the previous entry.

Ursula
Guest
Ursula

Indian workers should Make India Great! Via their own schools and jobs.

Moran ya Simba
Guest
Moran ya Simba

Ursula, ‘Indian workers should Make India Great!’ I totally agree.

Member

Sorry, not even that’s safe. Florida has started bringing in H-1B Indian cobra wranglers to take care of the snake problem in the Everglades. No, I’m not kidding:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_fFk53I3nE

Moran ya Simba
Guest
Moran ya Simba

Interesting story. But Im pretty sure they’re going home afterwards. Besides, they are hunting illegal zoological immigrants, giant pythons that belong in Asia.

UpYours
Guest
UpYours

Dude, seriously? This is the alt-right we are talking about. Have you not seen the comments out here? The “wrangling cobras” bit is practically benign compared to the other stuff in the comments section. Racism is like viagra to the alt-right, cannot get their flaccid members up without it.

Aldo
Guest
Aldo

Lefties like the above have a fixation on muh dik. No doubt from Negrofied they are.

Moran ya Simba
Guest
Moran ya Simba

I get that Z just wants them back in tiger land, and that’s probably best for everyone, including India. But here’s the thing, Wednesday Z posts a phenomenal treatise on the ideological state, really, really solid work, some of the best you can find in the blogosphere. And the next day it’s about ‘smelly South Asians’ ‘wrangling cobras..’ This kinda bar-fly language puts a tight ceiling on the reach of this blog, and I think more need to read it. I ve learned a lot from Z, two that come to mind are that you actually can discuss the ‘JQ’… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Tip o’ the the hat to the Z, as ‘Pajeet’ shows he remembers his clever commentors.

Many neighbors and co-workers are Sikh, so I appreciate MySimba’s notice on the importance of India, as a counter to China and Islam.

But how can ya not love ‘cobra wranglers’?

Moran ya Simba
Guest
Moran ya Simba

lol word

Tully Bascombe
Guest
Tully Bascombe

“Hello fellow alt- righters” no one is buyin your bullshit, pajeet. You need to go back to the 3rd World shithole from which you crawled out.

Moran ya Simba
Guest
Moran ya Simba

I’m not who you think I am lol But you clearly are an idiot.

Tully
Guest
Tully

Yep, you’re just an average American who loves India for some reason. Try harder, this schtick of your ain’t working.

Chief ShortingBull
Guest
Chief ShortingBull

I work at a telecom which has been importing Indians for some time now. These are for the jobs that they can’t send back to tech sweat-shops in Mumbai or at least to manila. Only now, it’s not just the actual workers…they are now able to bring their families, who end up working at Walmart where they practice figuring out how to make change, and figuring out the denominations of the shiny coins. They cluster in some of the apartments that were built about 15 years ago. It was a desirable area about a decade ago. Now it is quickly… Read more »

DeBeers Diamonds
Guest
DeBeers Diamonds

H-4 EAD was created by the previous administration without an act of Congress.

Look at how all these immigrants are assimilated and patriotic

https://jayapal.house.gov/media/press-releases/jayapal-love-lead-130-bipartisan-support-work-authorization-h-4-dependent

Rod1963
Guest
Rod1963

Hindus do not patronize Western stores. They only patronize eateries and retail outlets owned by their kind.

And they are not house proud, they do not do physical labor as they see it beneath them. So of course their apartments will have that run down, ghetto look about them.

Frank
Guest
Frank

I can directly attest to these events as I have been working in tech since 1980 (wow that is 38 years). I am just now making the same money I was in 1995. When you look at the valuations of companies, or the cost of a vehicle, it has increased by a factor of 4 or 5. When you look at executive compensation it is even more. The cost of a house has increased roughly by a factor of 4 or more. Yet, our salaries have gone up by roughly a factor of 2 or so. I have hired hundreds… Read more »

Juss Saeyn
Guest
Juss Saeyn

Frank, yes indeed – but also, as wages go down the ranks of the millionaires swells.

Joseph Suber
Guest
Joseph Suber

H1B Pajeet is Paul Ryan’s favorite “American.” I too have first-hand experience of this.

Tully
Guest
Tully

Me too. I work for a VERY large bank, in America, and the pajeets are EVERYWHERE. Sometimes, walking around the campus, I feel like I’m in Mumbai instead of the US. Every damn one of them represents a job stolen from an American. Oh and try understanding one of them attempt to speak English, especially on the phone.

A.T. Tapman (Merica)
Member
A.T. Tapman (Merica)

I’ll bet you must avoid the piles of feces when walking about the campus.

Member

Local state university nearby has lots of pajeets and must post text and visual aids in the showers so the dots don’t pop a squad in the shower stalls. Un. Flipping. Real.

UpYours
Guest
UpYours

Not unless the campus is in San Fran…and it ain’t the Pajeets doing the street shitting there.

Tully Bascombe
Guest
Tully Bascombe

Luckily there are none. Lots of Mexicans around to clean up the grounds. But you should see some of the bathrooms. Looks like a septic tank exploded.

Epictetus
Guest
Epictetus

All the big banks that use TATA, WiPro, Cognizant, Infosys, IBM, Accenture, etc all need to get slapped with multibillion dollar fines and top executives imprisoned for supporting slavery.

Juss Saeyn
Guest
Juss Saeyn

Of course don’t forget “Patel”

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

And Singh! All Punjabi have the middle name Singh (lion), they use it here to lie on their taxes.

A Patel (‘Kulak’ or ‘landlord’ is closest) showed me his family directory. He said, “there are 8,000 names in here, and I’ve met them all by first name. We never worry about babysitting or banking.”

Severian
Guest

It’s actually even worse than this, considering that ever-increasing numbers of the people who *teach* CS are academic indentured servants (F-1s, the student equivalent of H1-B). You have to go a long way to hear English spoken in the computer labs and intro science courses at major American universities, and the graduate student housing complex looks like Calcutta crossed with Shandong Province (smells like it, too).

John Derbyshire
Guest

H-1B! H-1B! (Weeping)

Member

I understand your pain but you’re on a hiding to nothing on this one, John.

Member

I just moved out of Silicon Valley after 25 years there. At this point, tech is an awful career, and I wouldn’t recommend it to anybody – a cadre of shrieking SJW harpies overseeing armies of pajeets who will parrot back anything their overseers tell them to say as long as they keep signing their paychecks. Today it’s social justice – if tomorrow it was National Socialism, they’d switch to it without a second thought. They tend to be practical that way. The normal Indian thing to do is to come to the Valley when you’re 22 or 23, work… Read more »

A.B. Prosper
Guest
A.B. Prosper

Interesting. None of this is remotely a surprise though, economic liberalism is Leftism in another form. The only actual right wing economics is nationalist and its centered broadly on the common good . Its ironic to me that the new Silicon Valley ban on free cafeterias for workers is more right wing than almost anything any Republican has proposed. And before all the reeeeee’s start, the area is packed with restaurants all of which are affordable to the lowest paid employee out there in Google territory. Making sure that the corporate profits are used for the good of the community… Read more »

Juss Saeyn
Guest
Juss Saeyn

AntiDem – yes, its a sobering thought to realize that the tech industry mule can pull no more. The system that once rewarded the smartest, hardest working people is now ended.

Troll King(-36)
Guest
Troll King(-36)

Interesting, but that’s been going on a while, if you read Michael Lewis’s new new thing, the entrepreneur of Netscape found gold by supposedly hiring Indians.

I always found it curious why computer programmers had such low reported average salaries for what seems like a specialized, difficult skill, but now I see why. H1bs undercutting the market

A.B. Prosper
Guest
A.B. Prosper

He found gold for himself and a few others, The common good is almost never served by the tech elite simply because they are rootless cosmopolitans all.

The good the Internet did is incidental not by design

MtnExile
Guest
MtnExile

“Bombay.”

My soul smiled reading that. I only wish you had worked “Calcutta” in as well. Along with “Burma.”

Karl Hungus
Guest
Karl Hungus

Siam

Baldwin Withersworth
Guest
Baldwin Withersworth

Pajeets are better than Chinese when it comes to working in “tech”, but that isn’t saying much. Diverse working environments suffer from a grinding SCALE effect, work is complicated enough without throwing in the need to learn the accents and idiosyncrasies of so many different cultures. There are high IQ people in almost every country and they all come to the US for a slice of the consumerist action. You’ve got hot headed South Americans, unhinged West Africans, apathetic Mexicans, condescending South Asians and difficult Eastern Europeans (who must be said are the best of the bunch). It’s all so… Read more »

Todd
Guest
Todd

It’s almost as if common culture and language matter! Shocked, shocked I am. I wonder how those big Corp workplace rules/company culture initiatives work in places like that? People raised to shit anywhere but indoors (cultural taboo) don’t really fit in where that sort of thing is frowned upon. San Fran must feel like a slice of home to them.

Dtbb
Guest
Dtbb

I sure did learn alot working construction as 15 and 16 year old during the summer(florida). Saved my money and bought a car and insurance all on my own and felt like a young man. Kids nowadays can’t even manipulate a handtool. I am thinking mandatory military service. Make these kids work together with their peers and maybe learn something. I don’t know, maybe I’m just foolish.

Hoyos
Guest
Hoyos

You really have to stop with the immigration first. This all relies on that. Conscription is a fun thought, whipping those good for nothings into shape, but it costs money we don’t have for temporary benefits; conscription can’t really fix character, otherwise the 60s wouldn’t have blown up in our faces.

The whole system has to be rehauled, repentance and basics.

Dtbb
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Dtbb

Of course ceasing immigration is vital. A white or black american form carpenter in florida may as well be a unicorn.

calsdad
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calsdad

Compulsory military service is a typical liberalesque type response to a problem. It’s another patch on top of another patch on top of another patch. Which – keeping with the theme of this blog post – is typical behavior of the Jugdish imports that work on software code. Don’t bother figuring out what the REAL problem is – just wrap some more duct tape around it and hope it holds together for a little while longer. RE: working as a kid. I got my first job when I was 16. I knew guys my age who had jobs of some… Read more »

Todd
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Todd

– hoping it holds together a little longer – truer words were never spoken. There is serious money to be stolen, “legally” of course, by keeping the scams going a few more years, then reform them to get another few years, lather, rinse, repeat. Obamacare, an easy example, was a way for the whole medical mafia and their enforcers (insurers) to keep the gravy train rolling. All while Obama and his hhs lackeys were playing the flute of “savings.” Of course, the saving meant save their profits, not save the unwashed money (we often hear what we want to hear,… Read more »

calsdad
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calsdad

Mandatory military service just gives the cloud class a bunch of bodies to send around the world and do stupid shit with. I’ve been bringing this up for years: This country had a MILITIA when it was founded. You were expected to serve. To serve you had to be in good physical condition. The young would serve with the older – so you’d get the older men teaching the younger. A militia serves it’s COMMUNITY not some far off ruling class with grand ambitions of world domination. I’ve read that one of the reasons why it was decided to go… Read more »

Dtbb
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Dtbb

Just spitballin’. I like your militia points. Just think bringing disparate youth together to labor and learn to wotk together would be a net positive.

Al from da Nort
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Al from da Nort

Cal; There was no *military* necessity for an ‘all-volunteer’ military for the USA, then or now. There were two main reasons for going to an all-volunteer military in ca. 1970. I was there in the military at that time and saw the before and after up close and personal. The first reason was to end the political turmoil of the the late ’60s and early ’70s by removing the main immediate grievance of the (mostly) white middle class about having their sons sent out to die* in a seemingly pointless war in SE Asia (not just Vietnam) that The Cloud… Read more »

RafterRat
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RafterRat

The only American kids I see on construction sites these days are the sons of tradesmen. I hear more Spanish than English most days, as the foreman’s bi-lingual “right-hand man” keeps the imported slaves working productively. The days when illegals supposedly did “jobs Americans won’t do”, have been followed up by illegals doing construction jobs American kids either can’t get or wouldn’t do even if they knew how.

Hoyos
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Hoyos

Plus millennials are not all working high paid tech jobs. We pay for women to go into make work fields and men just starting out are basically punished by lower wages and not having anyone in their corner, no EEOC, union, or connections. They’re poorer than is commonly reported.

Millennial make “bad” employees not because of the few snowflakes, but because they’re being paid shit wages from a company that demands loyalty and gives none. Plus being “bad” makes hiring foreigners easier.

Member

I worked for a Silicon Valley firm from 2000-2013 (and still work in the industry). When I started with the company, the core development group were Israelis, Russians and Americans, which made sense as the founders were Israeli. Maybe it was just me, but those guys seemed way more easy to relate to and Americanized than the Indians and Chinese that were to follow. The PS team was almost all Americans, because the VP was American. Then after the 2000 recession and layoffs and changes of management, we kept bringing in more and more Indians. I noticed that every time… Read more »

Drake
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Drake

I know when I’ve strayed into IT territory in the office when all the names on cubes are random strings of letters not meant to be next to each other.

Drake
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Drake

The last time I had to hire an intern, the only half decent candidates I found were an Indian girl and a graduating college football player with a Finance degree. I ended up hiring the football player and passing the Indian girl on to Marketing who hired her for the summer.

The football player was one of the few candidates who seemed to realize there were tougher ways to spend a summer than crunching numbers and setting up meetings. He landed a full-time gig in our corporate finance when the summer was over.

Ursula
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Ursula

God bless you for helping an American man get hired!

Drake
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Drake

I was nice having a young guy who could talk to us old farts about stuff we care about.

miforest
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miforest
Member

So very true. College was such a relief from back breaking labor. Sit in a warm building and write on paper? Better than being 20 feet up a ladder painting or doing landscaping. Made me very grateful and respect the hardships the less talented have in their manual labor. Every job I did from 14-22 is now done by an adult who doesn’t speak English as a first language. The cost to our next generations psyche cannot be measure. Z man, still batting near 1.000, probably should tell my friends it’s a fielding percentage, more realistic. God bless and keep… Read more »

Shrugger
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Shrugger

This essay is an 11 out of 10 on the insight scale. I’ve lived this world of IT from before the first days of “offshoring fever” through the disastrous transformation of high tech shops into babudoms (Indian bureaucracies).

The H1b Visa for high tech workers is/was one of the most damaging examples of crony capitalism there is. A lot of people should spend the rest of their lives in prison over this.

MikeW
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MikeW

My wife’s last few contract jobs as a business analyst/IT/business programmer were immersed in the Indian (dot not feather) thing. The client would import scores of H1-B Indians who would live eight to a hotel room and work 11 hours a day. Every morning at 8 AM there would be a conference call to India which got nothing done. After a few months they’d be sent back and another crew would arrive. Nothing useful got accomplished but the CFO-types would get kudos and bonuses for being smart and outsourcing like CFO Magazine said they should do.

MikeW
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MikeW

FWIW, my wife also remembers how the Indians she worked with never washed their hands after crapping and wiping their asses. Then they’d go right into the lunch room to cook their smelly food and offer her some.

MikeW
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MikeW

I was working since I was 12. I had a neighbor who was an off-the-books carpenter who needed a helper and my Mom insisted I work for him at about 1/2 minimum wage. Then I cut lawns (before they invented the Mexican lawn guy) and worked in a food warehouse in high school. Now the snowflakes cry if someone says “no” to them after their 6 years of college.

MikeW
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MikeW

I remember my son’s first paycheck. I explained who FICA was, and I explained how Social Security was a program where they took money from less affluent young people and gave it to more affluent seniors.

LineInTheSand
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LineInTheSand

I find it fascinating that most software developers are left wing. I would expect that the meritocratic nature of the work would turn them right wing, but no. My guess is that they spend most of their lives feeling socially isolated and one of the few ways they can feel connected to their peers is by mouthing leftist slogans. They are my people, but they will be the last to take action for what’s been done to them.

Juss Saeyn
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Juss Saeyn

Back in the old days most all of the hard-core Unix guys were liberty guys. Unix proves to be an extra difficult endeavor for most and we rarely even spoke to the Microshaft guys… often our small talk would be about guns.

LineInTheSand
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LineInTheSand

I wish I could have been around then…

There are still some “liberty” guys around, but today that means fighting for the right of mentally ill men in dresses to stalk little girls in the ladies room.

CAPT S
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CAPT S

Two problems very appropriately addressed in this essay, but to my mind they’re mutually exclusive: foreign labor & worthless Americans. The former garners a lot of comments in favor of sending the foreigners home … good, I’m all for it. The problems that come with foreign labor are easily discerned, easily solved, if there were political will with brass scrotums running the show. But, what’s the solution for the masses (and I mean millions) of white underclass, meth-addled, zero-skilled, lazy-ass, tech-addicted American boy-males? Or white middle-class gals who dress like sluts as they emulate prefer hip-hop culture? We can hypothetically… Read more »

LineInTheSand
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LineInTheSand

You are correct to notice the worthless Americans. Many of them can be improved, but not all. But one of the advantages of an ethnostate is that when we come down hard on the worthless, no one will cry “racism.”

It is true that class distinctions will always be with us. We must try to transcend them even if the effort will never fully succeed. That’s what our favorite uncle tried to do.

Member

Cheap foreign labor is just who we are now. It won’t go away until the current crop of cheap foreign labor become citizens and start getting replaced by cheaper foreign labor. How do you expect the tide of cheap foreign labor to end, just because that would help Americans, when it provides: A. Cheaper workers B. More submissive workers C. New Democratic voters D. An opportunity for soft-headed religious people to fell pious E. Educated single women an opportunity to virtue signal F. Jews with a chance to make whites a minority G. New Catholics to fill the pews H.… Read more »

Peter
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Peter

I am currently on vacation at a resort called SeaCrest in Falmouth,MA in Cape Cod. The surrounding area is affluent, yet every single worker here is Eastern European. I kept asking myself, where are the teenagers and college students on summer break?

BestGuest
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BestGuest

Once employers discovered that they don’t have to pay payroll taxes or benefits for certain categories of non-immigrant visas, that was the end of hiring American kids.

Ursula
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Ursula

Once again, easily solved with legislation, except, once again, our legislators work *against* us. It’s not that they’re useless, our legislators are harmful to us.

Alzaebo
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Alzaebo

(To the tune of “Mr. Sandman”

Rump bump bum bum bum bum bum
Rump bump bum bum bum

Mr. Sandhuuu
Jingmar Singh Ball

Your Hindoo lingo’s driving me up the wall

You could be civilized and so ur-ban
If you’d only stop wear-in’ that turban!

Mr. Sandhuuu
Jaginder Singh Gill…

Tully Bascombe
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Tully Bascombe

Inspired!!

Saml Adams
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Saml Adams

Spent a few decades at a highly successful F-200 that only outsourced sparingly and cautiously. We always felt that getting the entire “system” right was the key to success. Been working a turnaround the last couple years for another, much less successful global firm that went whole hog on the outsourcing bandwagon—service centers and back office in Philippines, IT to a third party firm in India. Complete clusterfuck. The first business group I started on I discovered we had about an acre of Filipinos basically doing what Z once described as the “Latino deli counter routine”. 150 people apparently working… Read more »