Fascism And Bolshevism

Everyone reading this has been indoctrinated in the cult of anti-fascism, where Hitler is a mysterious super-villain, with magical powers. The Nazis are a hyper-efficient military machine designed to kill all that is good in the world. It borders on the ridiculous, but it has been effective in establishing fascism as the worst evil imaginable. There’s not much worse than being called a Nazi, other than having been an actual Nazi. Outside of prison, Nazis are considered the worst thing possible, even worse than child molesters.

On the other hand, Bolshevism has never been given the same treatment, despite the body count. The Nazis killed a lot of people, but the Bolsheviks were every bit as murderous. In fact, Stalin was vastly more efficient at killing the inconvenient. His policy of starving the Ukrainians killed more people than Hitler’s death camps and it did so much more efficiently. Not only that, the Bolsheviks exported their murderous ideology all over the world, causing tens of millions of deaths. Maybe more than 100 million.

Yet, you can be an open Bolshevik and there is no punishment for it. On every college campus in the 1980’s, for example, you could find clubs for Marxism, various forms of third world communism and even pro-Soviet organizations. Of course, hipsters have been sporting Che Guevara gear for decades. Guevara was not just a murderer and a communist, he was an over the top racist. He really hated blacks. Read his diary and even David Duke would squirm over some of the things Guevara said about blacks.

Anti-fascism evolved from an academic fetish among Frankfurt School members into a cult of sorts in the 60’s and 70’s. The Antifa loons of today are well within the tradition of prior anti-fascist loons. The puzzle is why no similar movement ever started in response to the Soviet atrocities. Even if you think the Nazis were worse than the commies, in terms of intensity, the Bolsheviks were around a lot longer. They also managed to kill, or cause to be killed, millions around the world. The commies were a global killing machine.

Why is the former the symbol of evil, while the latter is still popular?

The anti-Semites argue that the reason the Bolsheviks get a pass is that Jews invented communism and Jews now run the world. It is certainly true that Jews are, as a group, politically radical and opposed to Western traditions. It’s also true that Jews were wildly over represented in Marxist movements, including Bolshevism. Having won the ideological war with fascism, it made a lot of sense for Jews in America to use the Nazis as a lever to pry open the doors of the ruling class. Self-interest made fascism the great villain.

The fatal flaw in this theory though is that while it explains why anti-fascism remains a powerful force in the West, it does not explain why Bolshevism gets a pass. Stalin turned on the Jews in 1948, when he saw how his Jewish subjects responded to Golda Meir and the establishment of Israel. When 50,000 Jews showed up in Moscow to cheer their new ambassador Stalin decided he had a Jewish problem. From that point until the end of the Cold War, Jews in the communist bloc were subjects of official repression.

There’s another problem and that is the assertion Jews have the power to bewitch and beguile the masses. Even accounting for their exceptionalism, Jews are still 2% of the American population. Unless they are a race of super smart aliens with the ability to control minds, like the John Carpenter film The Live, it’s unlikely that they have controlled the debate for 60 years. If they are a race of super intelligent aliens from beyond the stars, we will never know it, so there is no point in contemplating that option.

Paleocons, like Paul Gottfried, have suggested that communism may have an appeal to Christians that fascism lacks. That is, communism in the abstract is inclusive, universal and egalitarian. These are concepts that you find in Christianity, at least in the general sense. Anyone can become a Christian and everyone is equal before God. The Social Gospel sounds a lot like neo-Marxism and post-colonial socialism. Liberation Theology in South America is explicitly Marxist. The current Pope is out of this movement.

The problem here, of course, is that, in Europe, the Latin countries were explicitly Catholic and fascist. In fact, some scholars argue that fascism is an outgrowth of Catholic ideas like corporatism and localism. Spain under Franco was both Catholic and fascist. Portugal under Salazar was also Catholic and fascist. Of course, Mussolini’s Italy was very popular with American Progressives until the outbreak of the war. The best you can argue is that fascism seems to have had less appeal to Protestant academics that Bolshevism.

The elephant in the room is that this argument connecting communism with Christianity is made almost exclusively by Jewish anti-communists. This could simply be an example of the strange lack of self-awareness among Jews. That is, they are instinctively trying to shift the focus from their coreligionists, who are wildly over represented in Bolshevism, by laying the blame on Christians. All the best Christmas songs are written by Jews, so maybe they know something about how to sell this to Christians. Who knows.

The fact is, the anti-Semitic and philo-Semitic arguments explaining the popularity of Bolshevism versus the demonization of fascism, don’t hold up under scrutiny. Both answers have some truth to them, but they don’t provide a complete answer. A big reason is that no one, especially anti-fascists, can provide a workable definition of fascism. In the book Fascism: The Career of a Concept, the aforementioned Paul Gottfried does an excellent job explaining the various and contradictory definitions of historical fascism.

This is why conservatives fall for the “liberals are the real Nazis” stuff peddled by grifters like Dinesh D’Souza and Jonah Goldberg. Fascism is a poorly defined political movement that can mean just about anything at this point. Even in the interwar period, the various fascist movements had some things in common, but they also had things in common with the Bolsheviks. After decades of anti-fascist proselytizing, fascism is simply a catch-all term for that which the Left currently finds upsetting or threatening.

As is often the case, the reason for the relative cultural positions of Bolshevism and fascism is due as much to serendipity as anything else. For example, Frankfurt School anti-fascism came packaged with the claim that America was a proto-fascist state, which made it attractive to European academics looking for a reason to oppose their new conquerors. Before long, the provincial clod-hoppers from the American academy were getting in on the trend. Anti-fascism became a fashionable pose for the bourgeois radicals.

It was also a useful dodge for leftists who could shift the focus from their own unreliability in the Cold War onto their critics, by calling them fascists. It’s a good example of how immediacy can have a far greater impact on societal evolution that design. The Frankfurt School types never seemed to contemplate the role of the pseudo-intellectual poser, but their critiques set off a chain of events leading to anti-fascism becoming a handy weapon for feckless airheads and preening popinjays to gainsay their opponents.

Another interesting twist is that the current fad of anti-fascism is probably the primary driver of the new anti-Semitism. Younger people have no emotional attachment to the events in Europe a century ago. The leftist street bullies and campus enforcers have managed to make anti-anti-fascism attractive. This has opened the door to old fascist writers and thinker that have been memory-holed for generations. Julius Evola has probably sold more books in the last ten years than in the previous fifty.

Even more critically, modern anti-fascism has made the corresponding generation of Jews reckless and stupid. The social media meme “fellow white people” is the sort of thing that never would have been noticed without the anti-fascist hysteria. Previous generations of Jews were more circumspect, careful to avoid publicly living the stereotype. Younger Jews, caught up in anti-fascism as hipster cause, have managed to define themselves as an absimiliated alien tribe, with a chip on their shoulder about white people.

Given that the West is well into a post-industrial age where intellectual capital is the means of production, it is long past time for these industrial age ideologies to disappear, but we are also in the post-Christian age. People have to believe in something, even if it is opposition to something that has not existed for three generations. Similarly, opposition to the hauntology of anti-fascism, is providing a breeding ground for a new politics and a new metaphysics that exists outside the strictures of prevailing orthodoxy.

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ronehjr
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ronehjr

A small thing, I think one reason fascism was so easily mocked was that its two main proponents, Hitler and Mussolini, were so easily portrayed as buffoons. Chaplin and the Marx Bros did that almost immediately to Hitler. Lenin and Stalin maintained a mystique because they were not as public in their personas as the other two, and were therefore more effective political actors. Of course it is possible the two ideologies lend themselves to specific personality types, so the history is unavoidable.

Toddy Cat
Guest
Toddy Cat

Some really good observations here, Z. The double standard in academia with regard to Fascism and Communism is really remarkable. There are guys like J. Arch Getty who have made a career out of trying to minimize the number of people killed by Stalin, and he’s still at it. There are also big double standards with regard to what constitutes “killed” between the two ideologies. If anyone died because of any of Hitler’s policies, they are counted as a victim of Hitler (fair enough, IMHO). But when it comes to Communism, suddenly the definition of what counts as “killing” suddenly… Read more »

Karl McHungus
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Karl McHungus

interesting how Mao hardly ever gets mentioned, even though he killed more (Chinese) people than the other two.

Toddy Cat
Guest
Toddy Cat

Yes. Mao was a monster, mentally unbalanced, vengeful, and depraved – he actually combined a lot of Hitler and Stalin’s worst qualities. And yet, he is defended more than Stalin is by Leftist academics. Guys like Getty may try to minimize the number of Stalin’s victims, but they don’t usually actually try to defend the guy. But Mao still has his defenders in Western academia, even though, on the lowest approximation, he killed 2-3 times as many people as Hitler or Stalin did…

Rod1963
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Rod1963

Yep. I remember when the SOB croaked and Time Magazine had him on the front cover, IMS it said “death of a great man” or some such rubbish. Typical of our MSM/Leftwing media. Just like Stalin, they adored these monsters. During the Great Depression our intellectuals and well off whites were all impressed by Stalin, many of them actually volunteered to travel to Russia to “help”, many came back bitter and disappointed. Others never came back at all. Still the love for Stalin remained and was still there up until Solzhenitsyn published his opus. After the collapse of the Soviet… Read more »

Lugh
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Lugh

Left wing media? You mean the Jewish owned media? How did Z Man miss that? He gets the connection between Jews and Communism, but then drops the ball about them owning the media. For want of a nail, the battle is lost!

Kendoka
Guest
Kendoka

I worked in China and Taiwan for several years as a State Department FSO. Before that (and ever since), I have been a close student of Chinese history. The scale and nature of the atrocities committed by the CCP during the period 1950-79 is something that few Westerners can remotely grasp. NO ONE is even sure of the correct number of people deliberately murdered or starved to implement “scientific socialism.” In Taiwan, I met a lot of old guys who fought under Chiang Kai-Shek (hardly a saint, by the way) against the CCP or who fled the mainland as young… Read more »

calsdad
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calsdad

Communist sympathies in the US go *at least* as far back as the FDR administration, which has been proven to have been riddled with Communist sympathizers (at best) or outright agents (at worst). Looking at some of the history of the US in regards to the Soviets as far as just how Lend Lease was enacted and administered – highlights this fact. This conversation between Diana West and Stephan Molyneaux goes into some of the dirty details: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5RLR77bpr4&t=4591s The US press outright lied about things going on in the Soviet Union – for example the starvation genocide of the Ukranians.… Read more »

John Smith
Member

“Why is the former the symbol of evil, while the latter is still popular?” —————————————————————————————— The Bolsheviks and Communists USE the underclass. The marginals, the lunatics, the psychopaths. That is why the liberals and democrats are trying to flood us with them. There aren’t enough locally, they have to import them from other countries in order to take over. They are getting close to that too – they openly discuss dispensing with the checks and balances and due processes that keep them out of power. Fascism dispenses with the underclass. While the weak are not killed and eaten (contrary to… Read more »

Hoagie
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Hoagie

If I were a Jew I’d find Christ and be Saved. But that’s just me.

Toddy Cat
Guest
Toddy Cat

Which is exactly what Von Neuman did. An intelligent man, on lots of levels.

Whitemale979
Guest

Yeah, but if you find Christ and become saved, you forfeit your Right of Return, and roll the dice on whether or not the Goyim will go full Shoah. It’s a tough call.

Codaius
Guest
Codaius

“I think it’s almost Darwinian: For fascism to work, you need a highly motivated, very intelligent people. For Bolshevism to work, you need a lot of stupid, unemployable people willing to be coerced into being cannon fodder.” Very well said. Unfortunately, at least in the USA, it seems the damage of decades of dumbing down educational institutions might have sealed the deal for Americans. Go to your average Walmart and just witness the devolution that has transpired in this nation of unglued peoples. As a fascist, it is very disheartening to watch the greater collective of my people be entirely… Read more »

Cody
Guest
Cody

Absolutely correct and fucking fantastic

Member

In some sense, the Soviet Union won the Cold War: everything the Western intellectual believes is nothing but Soviet agitprop.

Member

Indeed. Read Witness by Whittaker Chambers. That really brings your point home

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

that must be why they broke up.

ExPraliteMonk
Guest
ExPraliteMonk

Someone on twitter said the intelligence services of the US and Soviet Union succeeded in infiltrating each other’s government so well that they’ve essentially switched ideologies. Kind of like Freaky Friday but with superpowers.

chedolf
Guest

I knew a (((girl))) in the 1980s whose father was a relatively senior CIA figure. I learned from her that one of his signal achievements was having authored an internal agency paper praising Maoism as a great success.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

was her last name Brennan?

Cody
Guest
Cody

I wish I could find out who said that because several of the”old soldiers” who I have the pleasure of knowing have said the same thing. Also why they find it so difficult to persuade the young.

Lugh
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Lugh

Because the roots of Communism are in the West – places like Manhattan. Who do you think funded Communism? Or do you believe that peasants armed with pitchforks and workers with hammers overthrew Russian and Old France? It just doesn’t work that way. The Bankers, the Jewish Bankers, funded Communism. American Troops were fighting for their own ultimate destruction in WW2. Now the rest of Capitalism has caught up and almost all the Big Corporations are on board with the “Left”. Obviously Left and Right thus cease to have their old meanings at this point.

Tom Saunders
Guest
Tom Saunders

Not the Soviet Union, the ComIntern. For a true believer socialist the nation state is, to borrow a phrase from Erdogan the Turk, a train you ride to a certain destination.

Severian
Guest

The reason Bolshevism succeeds where Fascism fails, I believe, is that Bolshevism turns Envy from a vice to a virtue. Fascism may say that we Germans (Italians, Spaniards) have a right to rule the world, but in practice it’s concerned with the fate of a specific group in local conditions. Bolshevism can make a kommissar out of anyone, though — just say the right things about loving the proletariat, and you’re free to vent your hate and envy onto anyone you choose. “The whole gospel of Karl Marx can be summed up in one sentence: Hate the man who is… Read more »

Hoagie
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Hoagie

I think you’ve absolutely nailed it.

Drake
Guest
Drake

I attribute most of it to indoctrination posing as really poor education. There are actually people wearing blackshirts and forming street mobs to beat-up “fascists” without seeing the irony.

Chaotic Neutral
Guest
Chaotic Neutral

Well, duh, the difference in public attitudes between Nazism and eastern communism is obviously that the Nazis were anti Semitic. Glen beck like hand waving over body counts falls on deaf ears politically because it has nothing to do with the first commandment but rather who the victim was. More deeply, the reason for the anti Semitism of Nazi germany and of the Hungarian revolution was the Jewish character of early Bolshevism. It was a reaction to a common perception of the day. But many things were happening on a daily basis back then. I had read of a communist… Read more »

Chaotic Neutral
Guest
Chaotic Neutral

I think this was the reason right wing Hungarian Jews were often highly militant about communism. Von Neumann urged for immediate nuclear war against the Soviet Union, and Edward teller was instrumental in the creation of the hydrogen bomb. Many peers regard teller as a demon for this, but I believe that was his motivation, to fight against the popular perception of Jews being in league with the communists.

Toddy Cat
Guest
Toddy Cat

Of course, anti-Semitism existed prior to Bolshevism (although much stronger in France than in Germany), but there’s little doubt that, had the Russian Revolution never occurred, Hitler would never have come to power, and the Holocaust would never have happened . Even such a mainstream figure as Winston Churchill believed this.

As an old Russian Jewish saying had it “The Trotskeys make the Revolution, the Bronsteins pay the bill!”

jaqship
Guest
jaqship

Yeah, Toddy, this, and the (disproportionately Jewish-led) SPD’s being stuck, with having to eat the Allies’ ultimatum on the Versailles war-guilt travesty.
Wilson should’ve stayed home, rather than lend his name to that joke.

jaqship
Guest
jaqship

While “the Jews” got a brutally bad rap for that super-tough decision (to not try to defy this Diktat), the Germans’ rage at this Diktat is, ahem, rather more understandable, than is the Dems’ recent infantile performance about Russian Hacking.
(Obama’s wanton ambush of Russian diplomats, on 2016-17 New Years’ weekend, should’ve been enough for him to’ve been impeached, even with him leaving within weeks.)

This degenerate infantilism did much, to clinch my drift into the direction of the alt-Right.

TheDividualist
Guest

>Anti-fascism evolved from an academic fetish among Frankfurt School members into a cult of sorts in the 60’s and 70’s I must disagree. The key event was even earlier than WW2: the Spanish Civil War. Virtually all Anglosphere intellectuals heavily supported the Reps, vilifying the Nats. The SCW is extremely important because that was the key even when it was decided that Liberals are going to ally with Bolsheviks and serious Conservatives with Fascists. It was not obvious at that point! A more individualistic, more aristocratic 19th century liberal tradition was still alive, that hated Bolshevism. And the Conservatives (Monarchists)… Read more »

Member

Boy, lots of words for a pretty simple thing. In the public mind, fascism killed for mean, selfish reasons. Communism killed for a good cause.

Joachim
Guest
Joachim

That kind of ties in with relating communism to Christianity. Communism is more universalist, and more focused on materially helping the poor (although there was of course no real shortage of emphasis on the latter within fascism, seeking to unite the people within the nation into a solid community, all working for the benefit of the whole).

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

If Gibbon is correct that Christianity, in part, took down Rome, as the universality of Christendom tore up the social fabric of Rome, then perhaps the universality of communism will similarly rend the social fabric of the West. I shudder to think of Marx as being held up as some sort of God, and the corpse of Lenin being paraded around as a kind-of disciple. But stranger things have happened. Republican Rome was the essence of good for all under a rather rigid political and social structure. Christianity offered a place for all at the table, despite economic and social… Read more »

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

Are you saying that the mere existence of Christianity weakened Rome, or that the adoption of Christianity as the state religion did it?

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Great question, my reflex answer is that Rome was coming apart anyway, and Christendom offered a bottom-up alternative. Constantine understood that, and incorporated that into his rule. Or maybe the whole Christian saga simply grabbed him at a personal level. Rome appeared to be going down the tubes anyway, so people grabbed on to something else. As to the modern parallels, I am not sure about Rome, but I feel like our own culture has gotten a bit fragile, but it is certainly being pushed, hard, over the cliff by some powerful and malevolent forces. Our daily discussions here are… Read more »

Lugh
Guest
Lugh

Once you control the media, you can lead people around by the nose. The economic miracle of Nazi Germany is never discussed obviously, and won’t be until the Jewish grip on Academia and the Media is broken. Hitler was all for the common man and still believed in Hierarchy. A contradiction? By no means. We love our feet after all – or should – and the common man is the feet of society. Now the Elite want Black or Brown feet because they are cheaper, but such feet will take them where they know not where, before they crumble. Metal… Read more »

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

one man’s “economic miracle” is another man’s “gangster government”. There was no such thing, that’s why they went to war — for the loot.

Lugh
Guest
Lugh

Rubbish. They kicked out the Jewish Bankers and ended the reign of Usury. That’s always the first step. They made lots more after that – and quickly.

Curtis
Guest
Curtis

Yeah, the Nazi’s went on to invade/occupy something like 22 countries, for resources.

And loot.

Kind of rhymes with usury.

TBoone
Guest
TBoone

Fascism & Communism were sibling rivals from the same family tree. Half-baked rationales for why we get to tell you what to do. We Are the Boss of you. It seems like Fascisms big sins were three-fold. Attacking brother Communism first, not being global enough (more a Nationalist than Globalist Faith). More Importantly: Fascism Lost. It’s easy to hate the loser. Mock the ones who no longer exist. Hitler is an imaginary boogeyman. Been dead long time. Unless you encounter an actual Aryan Brotherhood believer, mocking Nazis has no real cost. Commies won the family feud. They have long memories… Read more »

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Fascism and communism are about 98% the same thing. Both feed on the idea of hating the people around you that are not your allies, and arbitrarily taking everything from them, including their lives. Quite a few people align themselves to that sort of thinking. Given that fascism lost and communism “won”, those aligning with this sort of thinking get to adopt communism (under the guides of “socialism” and “democratic socialism “) for themselves and project such attitudes on those who they hate by calling them fascists. The mentally weak can include tribalism, greed, hate, and projection all rolled up… Read more »

Joachim
Guest
Joachim

I don’t understand how one could read the texts of Marxism-Leninism, and the texts of the virtually any school of interwar European fascism, and conclude they are 98% the same thing.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Both use a top-down approach of telling you what to do and how to live. Fascism is honest about it, in that it recognizes national identity and seeks to strengthen it for the benefit of the culture. It also is honest about the necessity for everyone to pitch in and sacrifice, for the benefit of all. Communism acts like a giant Santa Claus, passing out the goodies to those who play along, and seems to deny human nature in its leveling and atomizing of people. So maybe that is more than 2%. But at the street level, both ideologies extol… Read more »

Lugh
Guest
Lugh

Individuals didn’t conquer the Wild West or the Wild East either. Whites fought the Indians together with lots of help from the “GOVERNMENT”. The Marloboro Man type individualism is a vile myth sold to gullible Whites by the Tribe. Individuals along don’t worry them a bit. But people working together as One? Why that’s what they do! Cooperation will always come out on top over mindless competition, be it in the Business of War or the War of Business. Hint: low interest loans to fellow Tribesmen – shhh!

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

tell us where they diverge by more than 2%

Joachim
Guest
Joachim

Read from old ‘Progress Publishers’ volumes enunciating the principles of Marxism-Leninism, then read any of the interwar “fascist” milieu, including Niekisch’s National Bolschevism, and tell me they aren’t radically opposed. Are we to plug in the old Catholic Counterrevolutionaries (“proto-fascists” like de Maistre and Donoso Cortes) into this wave of the hand? Maybe I’m paranoid, but I detect National Review/Russell Kirk/Friedrich von Hayek “you’re not bourgeois individualists like us” sentiments. Democratic-capitalism, and the bourgeois individualist pseudo-right, have spectacularly, colossally failed. The healthiest portions of the West are those regions that were shielded from it via the USSR (East Germany, East… Read more »

Joachim
Guest
Joachim

*”The ideas and men they opposed have been proven basically correct.”

Excuse me, read “They have been proven basically correct in their choice of enemy men and ideas.”

Joachim
Guest
Joachim

Alain de Benoist has extensively and quite approvingly reviewed, and caused to be republished, works by the early Junger, Ernst Niekisch in his National Bolshevist years, the Sorelians of the Circle Proudhon, and I’ll wager other such thinkers as well. Is de Benoist relegated to the “communist-fascist” camp? Where does Maurras and his Action Française, or the heavily Catholic traditionalist Vichy regime stand in all this?

Lugh
Guest
Lugh

By not knowing what they are talking about is how.

Herman
Guest
Herman

Kind of like the US is today, wow now how did this happen.

pbr streetgang
Guest
pbr streetgang

Trotsky defined fascism as the mass mobilisation of the petite bourgoisie

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

i would say it was more like the melding of the working class and the bougies.

Guest
Guest
Guest

Zman, you have been on fire lately. This is a great essay, but you really need to somehow pin or front-page your Letter to Civnat essay. That one is probably the most salient and consequential essay you (or anyone else on the right) has written in years. Don’t let it disappear down the thread. Only one quibble with your essay: there is no such thing as a post-industrial age. The West is modern, and modernity requires industry. Through the magic of global finance, much of which is (((global finance))), the West has simply outsourced the dirty, industrial part of our… Read more »

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

+1 on the CivNat essay. It needs to be pinned to the church door.

Member

“Zman, you have been on fire lately.” Everyone always says this. When has he ever not been on fire? He probably blogs out of a burn ward. Agree about the CivNat essay. I’d hate to see it forgotten about. I reckon Z’s a guy who can write brilliantly yet fast. With that on-the-fly ability they’ll be some errors and sloppy thought at times. It would be great if he’d really perfect that essay and yeah, repost it as a sticky or something. I plan on making copies and placing them around town. I was gonna do it on a campus… Read more »

pyrrhus
Guest
pyrrhus

But actually, 2% of the population that controls the media, Hollywood and major academia can certainly control the dialogue..In the 1950s, Jews didn’t control any of those things, and there was virtually no demonizing of the Nazis or talk about a Holocaust.

Lugh
Guest
Lugh

They already had the Papers. If they hadn’t we would had never fought in WW1 or WW2. There were huge Anti-War movement before both Wars. All down the memory hold since those were good wars and those movements don’t fit the narrative.

As for the rest of media, Walt Disney warned us about the Jewish takeover. But we didn’t listen and soon lost Radio, Movies, and TV as well. Lookitup.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

I get the feeling you have one record, and it has one song on it; playing over and over again in your head.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Thanks Lugh.
Funny, I hear the same jingle in my head, too.

Still, this discussion has been much more interesting without that single beat.
Kudos to the commentors (including Lugh), and the Z.

Member

Why is the former [i.e., the Nazis] the symbol of evil, while the latter [i.e., the commies] is still popular? Surely, the fact that the UK and US twice fought long and emotionally draining wars with Germany — the second with Germany in a “fascist” guise looking out for revenge that made it possible to retcon the first one — means that the fascists have been viewed as ideologically repulsive for more than a century. “Fight for democracy” and all that. As for the Bolshevik bloodshed, it was a lot less “splashy” and took place behind closed doors that stayed… Read more »

Tim
Guest
Tim

Actually, there were some organizations that started as a response to Soviet atrocities. The John Birch Society, for example, was such a group, though it certainly was not the same as the lawless thugs of BLM. It got strangled in the cradle by the Buckleyite right police.I think you can make an argument that until Trump, anything that smacked of right wing populism was killed off by establishment conservatives.

Thorsted
Guest
Thorsted

The philosopher, John Gray writes in his book “Black Mass: Apocalyptic Religion and the Death of Utopia” that prior to the enlightenment the belief in utopia/leftist ideologies was expressed in Christian groups and sects. Prior to the enlightenment the revolution was the belief in the apocalypse. A totalt destruction of society were only the true believers would survive. In many ways i think that Grays point is that reason didn’t come with the enlightenment it just made another framework for beliefs. Communism was a such belief. Grays book is a long attack in the neo-con driven foreign policy in after… Read more »

DeBeers Diamonds
Guest
DeBeers Diamonds

Fascism is not truly dead, the ideal fascist state arguably exists in Singapore. It doesn’t use the name of fascism, but look at the PAP logo and try to deny that it was inspired by the BUF. Lee Kuan Yew explained the truths of multi-ethnic and religious societies better than any Westerner.

A dream not of the totalitarian states of the 20th century, but of a constitutional authoritarianism needed to manage unstable rootless societies.

Democratic socialism, meet constitutional fascism

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

The real trick in Singapore, was making it work in a multi-ethnic society.

Chiron
Guest
Chiron

I would argue that Japan and Israel are also very to Fascism.

DeBeers Diamonds
Guest
DeBeers Diamonds

The Israeli economy is much less state-directed than it used to be. Netanyahu in many ways imposed this from above, taking his experience living in the US in mind. There is no counterpart to Temasek. It’s not apparent today, but this will become an issue when Israel re-aligns away from Europe and towards its Arab neighbors. The Israeli businesses have been beneficiaries of “involuntary protectionism”, Lebanese would eat their lunch if they could. Japan’s economy is quite state-directed, but the corporations have a feedback loop via the ruling party. They preserved their manufacturing base, which is admirable. One odd aspect… Read more »

Lugh
Guest
Lugh

Japan as well despite copying our externals. Corporations must not hurt the Japanese Nation. They are guided by a Council that insures that they don’t – thus no surging millions of 3rd World cheap labor to undercut their own People. What despicable traitors our own Elite are by comparison. Fascism? We need it.

TomA
Guest
TomA

All languages and cultures have a term for “boogeyman”, which is a catchall reference for an amorphous or vague threat of some kind, and the word essentially functions as both an alarm and a teaching aid. This probably dates to the origin of language itself and encompasses the range of existential threats routinely encountered in the jungle. I imagine that tribal elders and parents used the word to scare their young into adopting cautionary protective habits. Fascism is the new incarnation of boogeyman.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

except that Fascism actually exists.

TomA
Guest
TomA

Fascism the word exists, but it’s definition is anything but clear and precise. Rather, the application of the word in modern contexts is fluid, variable, and ultimately meaningless. Hence the similarity with the imaginary boogeyman term. Fascism the word is now only useful in propaganda and sloganeering.

ChrisZ
Guest
ChrisZ

There’s a lot here, Zman, and perhaps it’s a prologue to more targeted reflections. But I think you’ve underemphasized the extent to which the characterization of Hitler himself is essential to the unique cultural position Nazism holds in modern culture, as THE locus of evil. Some years ago I read a “parallel biography” of Hitler and Napoleon, and what struck me most about the comparison was how it made Hitler’s rise to power seem utterly conventional. That is, his path, goals, personality, and even his end were uncontroversially recognizable as those of a tyrant like Bonaparte and other figures in… Read more »

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

I am curious about the role of Napoleon as the personification of evil in popular Western culture, at least until such time as Hitler showed up. Do these caricatures fade when those who lived under them die off, or do they get twisted further when there is no one around any more to set people straight? Hitler is crossing over from a man people remember, to one no one has ever met or been exposed to first hand, in the context of his times, right now.

Lugh
Guest
Lugh

Napoleon knew about the Jewish drive for power via Banking. He realized that putting one in a conventional prison would solve nothing: he would just continue to run his empire from his cell. So he put him in solitary confinement forever.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

and they were both corporals!

interesting parallels between france and germany, following the same path, about a hundred years apart.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

But the Napoleon name still obviously had resonance in the French culture, Louis Napoleon and the Second Republic and so on. Not sure what the rest of Europe made of all of that. We made sure to vilify Hitler to the point that even the Germans would reject him.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

Let me help you out a little bit here. Only Germans could be NAZIS, while communism is open to all the garbage of the world. That right there limits your appeal.

DeBeers Diamonds
Guest
DeBeers Diamonds

Fascism is particular, but the conditions that generate it can emerge in any industrial society. Julius Malema of South Africa is the first “Afrofascist” even though he will never admit it. The dysfunction and de-industrialization that the ANC has presided over is quite similar to the conditions in Italy after the First World War. They even have their own “stab in the back myth” where De Klerk and international finance prevented them from killing all the Boers.

Tykebomb
Guest
Tykebomb

I have a theory I’ve been trying to brow beat into something useful. Mass movement ideologies can be best understood by their founders. Mussolini was a socialist who grew up in the post unification Italian tradition: republicanism, worship of Garibaldi’s martial prowess, and socialism. When WW1 broke out, Mussolini signed up becuase of the martial spirit of Italy but in contrast to the general strike ordered by the comintern. This evolved into the nationalist socialist platform of the early fascists that led to fights in the streets with communists. Eventually, fascism adapted more right wing views becuase it took power… Read more »

Mcleod
Guest
Mcleod

I do agree that, at it’s heart, Christianity opens to the door for collectivism. We are all equal in the eyes of god. We are all God’s children. Christianity is dying. Or at least it’s dying in Europe and the United States. There are those that believe “The State” will replace religion. I can’t help but think that collectivism withers on the vine without Christianity. Why are we all equal? Without religion, and Christianity in particular, the answer is we’re not.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

That’s assuming that collectivism, as described by the communists, is a real thing, and not simply a maguffin to suck people into a totalitarian dystopia.

Just because you may treat people fairly, and accept things at their face value, as presented to you, that doesn’t mean those who are proffering such things are honest and what they appear to be.

Lester Fewer
Guest
Lester Fewer

Marxism-Leninism-Maoism have absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. People who claim this either have little to no understanding of either Marxism OR Christianity, or else they are looking to deceive, or else to (((deflect blame from its real source))). Huh, never seen THAT card trick before.

Think of the similarities between Communism and the Tai-ping Rebellion, which was raging while Marx was still writing his cranky murderous nonsense. Well, more on that later, if anybody cares enough to discuss it.

Mcleod
Guest
Mcleod

Does Marxism use the Christian concept of equality as a foundation for their bullshit? By that, i mean does Marxism pervert the Christian concept of equality for its own ends? If the Christian concept of equality was erased where would that leave Marxism?

jaqship
Guest
jaqship

Mcleod, it’s not just Christianity that opens to the door for collectivism, and **hyper-equality**. **Democracy** does the same thing. Bolshevism insists on “complete” human equality, and this insistence fits into democracy very well indeed. If Bolshevism ends up needing a Stalin to run things in emergencies, that’s “a bug”, not “a feature”. By contrast, fascism was utterly explicit on the supreme need for inequality, i.e. for a Führer, Duce, or Cuadillo to personify the nation, not as a bug, but as a feature. Moreover, Bolshevism pays (at least) lip service to the idea of equality between the nations and races,… Read more »

Lugh
Guest
Lugh

Fascism per se is not about race. That the difference between it and National Socialism. Franco didn’t like the Nazis but the West refused to help him, so he accepted their aid in his struggle against the Communists. But obviously race is there: just google the etymology of Nation. You can’t have a nation with all different races in it. Thus National Socialism goes a bit deeper and sees more clearly, though they otherwise run parallel quite a bit.

Lugh
Guest
Lugh

Bishop Fulton Sheen: The old Monks shared what they had in common because they loved God and thru God, each other. But making people share everything in common will not enable them to love each other or God. Communism puts the cart before the horse.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Nice. Very nice. Like making them share living spaces, the loss of free association.

Member

People like free stuff and don’t want to think about where it comes from.

When Obama was asked how he was going to pay for free stuff, he said, we’ll print more money.

Marxism, Communism, Socialism, etc. are easy sells.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

Turning the question around, why do so many people find Stalin boring? The dirty little secret of all of this, is that Hitler will be remembered forever, he is immortal now. Stalin is just another drunk Russian, with a bad temper.

What historical figure in the last 500 years compares to him in significance?

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Bernays was right. It’s all in the marketing.

james wilson
Guest
james wilson

Adolf was charismatic in the extreme, Joe was not. And in the estimation of Simon Weil, Adolf was a political genius and to be underestimated at your peril. So this was a one man show, while Joe was a bureaucrat at heart and in fact. As was the other Adolf, Eichmann. Bonaparte too falls into the first camp. Marxism is the ideology of the bureaucrat. All revolutionaries become bureaucrats, including Fidel.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

I wonder if Mel Brooks ever tried writing a comedy about the USSR, but couldn’t find a humorous angle? Are there any popular works that present the USSR in a humorous vein?

The Skinning of Bill Kristol
Guest
The Skinning of Bill Kristol

Well there was Boris and Natasha from “Rocky the Flying Squirrel” and a bad 70s sitcom set inMoscow (I should shoot myself for knowing that). Russian commies are often presented as bumbling comic minor figures in works that are mainly about something else. And there’s the great back cover of the Ramones “Rocket to Russia”. it pops up, but never as strongly as “Springtime for Hitler”.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

heh i forgot about the cartoon! good call.

Tim
Guest
Tim

Best book I’ve read on Hitler’s political instincts and development is “Becoming Hitler” by Thomas Weber. Heavy close focus on his readings, associations, who influenced him, and his political weaving through the complexities of post war Bavarian politics.

Lugh
Guest
Lugh

Stalin was a fox though – and had great one liners like: One has to be a very brave man not to be a hero in my army.

Arch Stanton
Guest
Arch Stanton

“What historical figure in the last 500 years compares to him in significance?”
I’ll bite…Martin Luther. The protestant reformation is still going strong.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

no, not even close.

Lugh
Guest
Lugh

And he wasn’t a Russian but rather a Georgian from the criminal class. The young Stalin was once seen to run down the street in a high state of excitement yelling, I’m gonna work for the Rothschilds. True story. Who else funded the Revolution but the Jewish bankers? It got away from them in the end of course.

pdxr13
Guest
pdxr13

Nichola Tesla and his nemesis Thomas Edison. Either is more significant than Hitler-Stalin-Churchill-Mao-FDR combined.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

hahaha I almost thought you were serious there for a second.

Chiron
Guest
Chiron

Bolshevism get a pass because even after Stalin purges jews still remained indebted to the Soviet Union for defeating NS Germany for them. Off course they left the URSS for Israel and the USA but they still pride themselves of killing the Czar and his family and stating the Revolution:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakov_Yurovsky

Codaius
Guest
Codaius

“There’s another problem and that is the assertion Jews have the power to bewitch and beguile the masses. Even accounting for their exceptionalism, Jews are still 2% of the American population. Unless they are a race of super smart aliens with the ability to control minds, like the John Carpenter film The Live, it’s unlikely that they have controlled the debate for 60 years. If they are a race of super intelligent aliens from beyond the stars, we will never know it, so there is no point in contemplating that option.” This paragraph dismisses the real argument of what effects… Read more »

Lugh
Guest
Lugh

Agree 100%. How could he have missed this? Archimedes said, “Give me a lever and I will move the world”. The mass media is just such a lever and the Jews got control over it. They could be far fewer than 2% and still control us as long as they keep their grip on the lever. Americans got on with their lives after the Civil War and when they looked up, they realized the Jews already had the papers. Then they got the Banks with the Federal Reserve Act – and then began the horrors of the 20the Century: the… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

The Rosetta Stone is over at Occidental Observer, linked to by Ursula a couple of days ago.

A vast project, thousands involved and career focused, and in their own words with millions of pieces of propaganda. Hundreds of thousands of graduates to this audacious, deliberate project since 1947.

None of this was an accident or a quirk. You were right after all.

Member

“Outside of prison, Nazis are considered the worst thing possible, even worse than child molesters.” One might read that at “other than prison, Nazis are…” meaning you are comparing prison and Nazis as bad things, Nazis being worse than prison. Of course, that’s not your meaning. YOU mean, “If you’re not in prison, Nazis are the worst thing…” Because, of course, in prison “Nazi” is or is associated with White gangs, who must be feared, or at least respected. OUTSIDE prison, Nazis aren’t allowed to do the sort of things that would make them feared or respected. Nazis are not… Read more »

Member

Communism gets a pass because it has escaped the intense media saturation that was/is being used on fascism. And since that swastika was a fabulous symbol of everything evil, it gets splashed about everywhere. It’s on the covers of thousands of books, both fiction and non-fiction. Hollywood continues to churn out antifa agitprop starring Nazis. Magazines devote tons of ink to antifa themes. Television used to feature weekly dramas like Combat! and The Gallant Men (eagerly watched by me). And the stuff is still being created and disseminated. Antifa agitprop is simply part of the media air we breath: news,… Read more »

Codaius
Guest
Codaius

And it all begins to make sense when you see who actually runs Hollywood. Watch the old propaganda cartoons they used to churn out to drum up support for the war. They were able to portray the National Socialists as barbaric animals to their own kind living in the States. They were able to convince the European in America to murder without mercy the proud German fighting for the independence of his homeland against the Bolshevik menace. It’s why they relentlessly push the Holocaust narrative in movies, public school, and in politics, because White people must submit to this Jewish… Read more »

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

The Hammer and Sickle was a potent emblem as well. It has been temporarily retired for rehabilitation. Stay tuned.

jaqship
Guest
jaqship

Dutch, the Hammer and Sickle (and most other political emblems) is nothing as a potent emblem, compared to the Swastika.
As the 2nd verse of “Die Fahne hoch” proclaims, “Es schau’n aufs Hakenkreuz voll **Hoffnung** schon Millionen!”
It helped much, that Hitler had the Swastika “spinning” in a *clockwise* direction, implying that the NSDAP represented moving forward in time, away from the trauma of the (esp. recent) past.
“Swastika = *True* Progress”!
His foes’ stuff was infantile by comparison.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Judas priest, Jaqship and deBeers are killing it today.
Such a high level on display here.

Joachim
Guest
Joachim

I don’t know Zman. Jewish opposition to Stalin’s late, brief anti-semitism, and the (presumably soft) anti-semitism that came after Stalin in the USSR (I haven’t read anything on it), does not necessarily equate to throwing in the towel on all Marxism, or even on Marxism-Leninism. I think an amalgam, of Christian spawned universalist and egalitarian ideas among gentiles (I’m particularly thinking about the 20th century American WASP elite, like the men who staffed FDR’s administration), and Jewish predilection for radical universalist ideologies in which their ethnicity may hide (or not find themselves facing a hostile majority bloc), explains this issue.… Read more »

Member

Stalin turning against the Jews didn’t turn the Jews anti-communist, it just turned them anti-Stalinist, which left them mostly as Trotskyists. Ever wonder why most neocons are ex-Trotskyists?

Lugh
Guest
Lugh

It’s just a vehicle of ethnic advancement, guy. They don’t believe things the way we do. Tomorrow they’d be Monarchists if it helped the Jews. They believe in themselves in other words. We could learn a lot from them in this. By some estimates, National Socialism was the same thing for Germans and ultimately perhaps, the White Race. We actually believe in things that harm us. That’s not an issue for them – never going to happen except by mistake. As Jefferson said, Survival is the first morality.

Member

It’s simpler than that. Hitler lost, Stalin (and thus all communists) and Mao won. Soviets (now Russians) and Chinese get to write their own histories, so S&M get the “mistakes were made but they were great men and patriots” treatment. It’s at that point that the Jews come in, with an obvious grudge making them the keepers of the anti-Hitler flame. That’s why they won’t let anyone examine the Holocaust “like any other historical event” As Hitler himself said at the time, “Who remembers the Armenian massacres?” The events over the last couple years have seen the “Nazi” meme move… Read more »

Torog
Guest
Torog

But when a single group like white Europeans becomes so responsible for so much killing against out groups, does not its right to exist become questionable at some point? Isn’t there a point where we can all agree that whites were better simply peacefully bred out against the rising African population in order to assure a safe, peaceful future for humanity? It seems that if I were white, looked in the mirror, recognized the enormity of the holocaust and colonialism, I would be leading the charge against my own group. I think this is the logic that motivated the pelosis… Read more »

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Most people killed by white Europeans were other white Europeans.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

that guy is a troll, shows up every couple of months. has a micropene and idolizes the brown savage (uncut only).

Lugh
Guest
Lugh

Well said. We helped defeat their enemies and they then began working on us until we were made into their enemies. Nice, real nice. They won WW2, they and their Globalist Mason allies. We lost, and were and are utter dupes. Power can only come by admitting our complete degradation. Call it repentance…..

Lester Fewer
Guest
Lester Fewer

“Both answers have some truth in them, but they don’t provide a complete answer.” Fallacy of the Naive. In the exceedingly messy and bedeviled sphere of human affairs, a tidy, “complete answer” to any question large enough to be worth pondering is rare indeed. Some people here are doing some excellent historical excavation about these issues, so credit where it’s due. But sadly, I think the current crop of Americans are so historically blank-minded and ignorant of the past that historical researches, though true, are not realistically useful explanations as to what’s going on in these tiny, tiny minds. He… Read more »

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

no, English is the most expressive language existent. People may be sloppy in its usage, but that is on them.

Actually, English is an amalgam of Greek, Latin, old German, ancient Britain (and maybe a few more I left out). That’s why we have “height” which is German, and “altitude” which is Latin.

Lester Fewer
Guest
Lester Fewer

“Expressive” does not equal “precise”. Just look how sloppy you’ve been, right out of the gate. Now imagine your average bugman’s ability to think or speak with even a jot of precision.

“English is an amalgam…”

Is your day job Assistant Vice President of Making Other People’s Points FOR Them?

Hey, will you look at that. I guess English is indeed an expressive language, at least.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

please professor, give us some examples that show how English is an inherently sloppy language.

Also, show me how a language with low expressiveness can also be precise. Show us how precision is possible in a limited language like native Hawaiian, or one of the African click languages.

Sorry you are butt hurt because someone pointed out you talk shit.

Member

Well said. Almost ashamed to admit it but I think McHungus is probably more hungus than the rest of us.

Lester Fewer
Guest
Lester Fewer

Awfully anal today, snookums, with all the poopy insults. Are those “expressive,” or simply childish? You can’t answer, because you don’t have a clear (read “precise”) idea in your head of what you mean by “expressive”. This is clear because you wrongly have some zany relation in mind between expressiveness, precision, and the “size” (whatever that means — see?). Native Hawaiian is perfectly “expressive” for the needs of a small, backwards island kingdom with few things to talk about. Speaking of tiny island, you probably have no idea how expressive Gaelic is. You’re tripping all over yourself — not because… Read more »

Carrie
Guest

No. Agree with Lester Fewer. English is a living language that could be somewhat precise, but because of the dumbing-down of the masses, it continues to lose that quality. Latin (particularly Ecclesiastical Latin) is VERY precise. And it is exactly because of its “dead” i.e. “fixed” and no longer changing status, that it is still used at Mass. The references that the commenters are making to Christianity (ie Catholicism for the most part, until Henry couldn’t keep his Johnson under control in the 1550’s and Martin Luther changed the Bible to suit his own liking), as related to late and… Read more »

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

again, give an example. and try not to meander off into other stuff along the way. You know, something more than your opinion.

Carrie
Guest

Well aren’t you quaint, McHungus.

I didn’t realize that giving an historical summary that’s directly related to Z’s post about political philosophy was an opinion.
Interesting.

I’ll have to remember to call you out on all future grammatical and English expression mistakes henceforth, since clearly you know more than I do on this subject.

Guess i’ll have to go study more classical -rather than ecclesiastical- Latin, so as to more precisely express myself in the future here.

And i’ll assume you will understand it, since you must be more articulate than I.

Member

Carrie: “English is a living language that could be somewhat precise, but because of the dumbing-down of the masses, it continues to lose that quality.” Yeah, plus the Irish, English, Americans and blacks can’t help but get irreverently creative with words. As it’s said, a living language. At higher levels there’s also a fearful habit of keeping things vague, so as to avoid “traps” or being thought narrow on a topic. Sophisticates equate vague with subtle. You’ll never hear an interview with an educated person where he doesn’t compulsively use the modifiers, “a sort of”, “a kind of”, “almost an”.… Read more »

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

More sock puppets today. could it be Tranniedancer in disguise?

Fester, put down the crack pipe, you are rambling terribly. The only thing you have demonstrated today, is a severe case of logorrhea. I accept that you love to yap, and will leave you to it.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

I am learning so much outside of my limited interests here.
Thanks Carrie, and all!

Glad we caught McHungus in one of his rare good moods, eh?

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

OT: Fatty Goldberg looks like he is trying to creep back from his previous virulent anti-Trumpism. Maybe. Didn’t read his article, but the tag line indicated it was supportive of Kavenaugh.

Member

Funny. Can we make it Fatty McGoldberg?

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Hey, now, Fatty’s ok.
I mean, at least he’d make a stylin’ lampshade, amirite?

Lester Fewer
Guest
Lester Fewer

McHungus: (Arrogantly demands answers to a series of blustery, confused, semi-nonsensical questions.)
LF: (Patiently attempts to answer same.)
McHungus: (runs away, gracelessly sputtering unfunny insults to cover his retreat.)

Did I leave anything out?

Member

The following is a list of films dealing in some way with the Holocaust: 1. Schindler’s List (1993) 2. Sophie’s Choice (1982) 3. Life Is Beautiful (1997) 4. Kapò (1960) 5. Holocaust (1978– ) 6. The Pianist (2002) 7. Train of Life (1998) 8. Fateless (2005) 9. Playing for Time (1980 TV Movie) 10. The Grey Zone (2001) 11. Seven Beauties (1975) 12. Europa Europa (1990) 13. The Counterfeiters (2007) 14. Amen. (2002) 15. Angry Harvest (1985) 16. The Boy in the Striped Pajamas (2008) 17. Divided We Fall (2000) 18. Conspiracy (2001 TV Movie) 19. Landscape After Battle (1970)… Read more »

The Skinning of Bill Kristol
Guest
The Skinning of Bill Kristol

Hey, you left out “The Day the Clown Cried”. Unforgivable! Well, I guess it’s sort of forgiveable, since very few have seen it. In fairness (and I fully agree about the political weaponization of the Holocaust, in cinema as in everywhere else), though, you have to admit that sinister Nazis hunting down saintly Chosenites who use their wits to evade and escape, is much more melodramatic than a) the (((Commissars))) come to your farm and steal your grain, then b) everybody slowly starves. They also make more movies about Irish emigration than the Irish famine (which, btw, was also a… Read more »

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

that Jerry Lewis reference was fukkin gold!

Member

The reason Nazism is vilified and Bolshevism is not is (a) Bolshevism won, and (b) the ruling class of the west has been leftist ever since the Whigs. As for Jews being overrepresented in the Bolsheviks: sure, they certainly were. They were also overrepresented in the Nazi party, especially considering its disposition. Jews are consistently and highly overrepresented in every elite group and institution that is not explicitly anti-Jewish, and even then they tend to be somewhat overrepresented. Bolshevism was as elite as you could get in that place and at that time. Being a Communist opened many doors for… Read more »

Lugh
Guest
Lugh

So let’s keep them out next time, right? Since they are ultimately only out for themselves, right?

Steve
Guest
Steve

Senor Zed,

Just a recommendation, but I think it is important for everyone on our side of the divide to stop using Wikipedia unless there is no other choice. By providing links, we are supporting the very organizations that hate us. Please try using infogalactic whenever possible.

I am really glad to see that you are being discussed and referenced much more these days – must feel like you are doing something right, huh?

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

Interesting tid-bit: the content of wikipedia is open source. There is already an alternative called “Infogalactic” (I think).

Lugh
Guest
Lugh

They often have great introductory articles. Most people here would be helped by googling “Fascism” and reading what they have to say. I mean instead of just making up stuff or fantasizing about how “left” or “right” Fascism is when those words don’t apply at all.

jaqship
Guest
jaqship

Really good, as usual, Lance, esp. on over-representation of Jews everywhere, and on “take one or two passages from a major religion way out of context”.
That’s quite how propaganda works.

If a religion lasts long enough, it will, by the nature of things, spawn “heresies” which push buttons, to grind “precious” axes.
This is esp. likely, in places (e.g. Europe) where you get a whole bunch of distinctive Nations (esp. with different languages) in a fairly small area.
Esp. when the small area is close to other vibrant cultures, as Europe is to those of the Middle East.

Matt
Guest
Matt

Rubin interviewed Claire Lehmann (Quillette) last week. She spent a lot of time politely talking about the problems on the left, But when it comes to describing the problems on the right the tone shifts and she’s fully in support of throwing people into the void for being alt-right, because all alt-righters are racist nazis and simply awful humans. blah blah blah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmxd42UNZA&feature=youtu.be&t=43m25s

Carrie
Guest

Silly, SILLY girl. She needs to shut her pie hole and just go back to the kitchen where she belongs.
And put on more modest clothes.
Her feminism is showing.

Member

I watched a bit of her response. He asks what the Alt-Right is, and though she’s editor of an ideas magazine, isn’t the least bit interesting about it. “Something something, white nationalist, blehrg blerhg, they send death threats.” She sounds like a stoned beauty contestant when she answers, lol. I must say I’d marry her at the drop of a hat.

CAPT S
Guest
CAPT S

A lot of comments are referencing fascism without first defining it. That was a point made in Z’s post. Fascism has strong connotations of Hitler & Mussolini, and everyone agrees that it’s bad, but that still bypasses the definition. I’ve always understood fascism as the marriage of government with corporate power, with nationalistic overtones. It differs from socialism/communism in that private property is sanctioned, and can be more successful than communism because corporate wealth helps underwrite government initiatives (like war) and aids in the reach of propaganda. Both socialism and fascism are leftist tendencies, but to my mind fascism is… Read more »

Lugh
Guest
Lugh

Fascism is Nationalism. Full stop. It’s economics will be what serves the Nation. And that means a mix of Capitalism and Socialism. Full stop. But not our Capitalism since they must be loyal. And not Marxist Socialism either. It’s not Left or Right. It’s another line altogether. Are the Amish Left or Right? They live in their own homes and have their own private farms. Yet they work together and own things in common. See the problem? Same with Fascism. It is its own line – and not just a midpoint in the current line of private/public. Do you know… Read more »

Brooklyn
Guest
Brooklyn

“Why is the former the symbol of evil, while the latter is still popular?” Because we didn’t have a third world war. The entire identity of the modern world is built on WW2 and its aftermath. If there hadn’t been any nukes and we’d have naturally had a third world war in the 1960s or 70s with the defeat and occupation of the Soviet Union, the culture would have shifted to include the Soviets on the level of the fascist threat from the previous generation. We never conscripted an army and invaded the Soviet Union the way we did with… Read more »

jaqship
Guest
jaqship

Very good, Brooklyn.
If there’d been TV coverage of US troops in the Kremlin, this would’ve been legendary, akin to footage of Japan’s surrender on the Missouri.

“they are just brainless hipster liberals…. the richest and most ignorant Jewish community in human history” is classic.
Feinswine’s conduct in recent months may well become the exclamation point on this.

Lugh
Guest
Lugh

And it was otherwise for Ivanka and Jared. He’s Chabad and they believe they are destined to rule the world. The Orthodox are moving into the World to replace the degenerates. All the worst for us.

Member

Hitler and Mussolini lost the war. Stalin was on the winning side at the end. Mao’s ruling class has not been overturned.

The only thing history despises is he who loses the war.

WalkingHorse
Guest
WalkingHorse

I think Fascism can be given a fairly precise definition. Let us hearken back to the words of the creature who gave us the term: Benito Mussolini – * All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state. * Fascism is a religious concept. * Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power. In other words Fascism is a religion of the State, which is considered all-powerful, and it appropriates the economic power of business and industry to serve the state religion. As the historical record suggests, Fascism… Read more »

jaqship
Guest
jaqship

Yeah, Walking, fascism isn’t much hemmed in by utopian ideology, so, when circumstances change, its leaders can easily adjust on the fly.

jaqship
Guest
jaqship

In NS Germany, Hitler could proclaim Jews to be “honorary Aryans”.
Money talks, BS walks.

Lugh
Guest
Lugh

The individual is nothing alone, without a community he cannot be an individual. As the Ancient Greeks said, a man alone is either an animal or a god. And let’s face it, far more likely to be the former. Thus Ayn Rand tricked generations of gentiles into misunderstanding their own history and traditions. And once the Jews got control over advertising, they piled on! The Marlboro Man!!! The Duke!

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Then the Nazis certainly did qualify as fascists. They had a council, 12 guys I believe, and every business in Germany had to pass muster.

slumlord
Guest
slumlord

It’s a very good essay. You’ve really got to read Gregor’s book; Marxism, Fascism and Totalitarianism. Executive summary: Fascism was a socialism for identitarians. Hence the battle between Fascism and Socialism/Communism was really a battle between different types of socialism.

Member

Apparently Z asked this question to exhaust everyone.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Quite! Going around in circles get tiring, even for Nascar hillbillies.

But! We’re not allowed to say,
“Communism was a Jewish thing, fascism was gentile”, because aliens. Verboten!

Zippy the Skinhead
Guest
Zippy the Skinhead

All these academic theories are well and good, but regarding the question Why is fascism evil and Bolshevism gets applauded, for the average leftist American zipperhead, the answer is just two words: Star Wars. This dumb little sci-fi movie is about as deep as their metaphysics really goes. The naive Manichaean “Star Wars” has Nasty Mean Bad Guys in charge of everything, and We are the hippy-dippy Good Guys, bravely fighting back from our little communitarian caves in Berkeley. Never mind that the fascists, by equating the State with the Volk, viz. the actual ethno-religious-racial “community,” were the real communitarians.… Read more »

Lugh
Guest
Lugh

Great summation. If only Z (wasn’t that a movie about Greek Fascism?) could see what Zippy does. Perhaps he takes himself too seriously – or not seriously enough! Or both simultaneously. Or successively. Or neither, both ways again. What did, was it Chesterton, say? Angles can fly because they take themselves lightly. I meant to say Angels but perhaps my hand was guided….

Member

Congrats Lugh on the worst comment in the history of the internet.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

A pitch-perfect soft sell, Zman
This is how ya slow walk ’em

And a huge thank you to Ursula for directing us to @TOOAJoyce and the Flowerman project in 1947.

The Frankfurt School was a small part of that; apparently, “pathological altruism” isn’t genetic at all. Revolutionary stuff there, Ursula.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

My two favorite movies on this topic are:

“The Damned” : https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064118/?ref_=fn_tt_tt_2

“The Conformist”: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065571/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

Bluebird
Guest
Bluebird

Exiting the Vampires’ Castle was simply an instance of premature anti-anti-fascism.

Joshinca
Guest
Joshinca

Guevara was not just a murderer and a communist, he was an over the top racist. He really hated blacks. Read his diary and even David Duke would squirm over some of the things Guevara said about blacks

One of the inconvenient truths memory holed by the left is that Batiste was black.

Curtis
Guest
Curtis

Whatever one thinks of the Jews, remember, they do not have Jewdi Mind Control. Not all Soviets were Jews, nor are all Americans.

Dan in Ohio
Guest
Dan in Ohio

You wrote:
“There’s another problem and that is the assertion Jews have the power to bewitch and beguile the masses. Even accounting for their exceptionalism, Jews are still 2% of the American population. Unless they are a race of super smart aliens with the ability to control minds, like the John Carpenter film The Live, it’s unlikely that they have controlled the debate for 60 years. ”
Jewish people OWN about 90% of the media in the USA.
http://tapnewswire.com/2015/10/six-jewish-companies-control-96-of-the-worlds-media/

It’s VERY easy to “beguile” the masses when the only hear/read one side of every story.
Now you know. Have a great day! 🙂