Learning From The Past

Over the weekend, something that kept popping into my mind was that the paleocons have never spent much time thinking about what they did wrong during their long struggle with the neoconservatives. They spend a lot of time rehashing old fights and discussing the things they fought, like the Civil Rights Act or the Reagan amnesty, but they always seem to stop at the water’s edge when analyzing these things. It’s almost as if they agree with the Left that these policies were inevitable, due to the tides of history.

Part of it, of course, is the losing side never wants to spend a lot of time dwelling on their own failures. Even the humbling experience of being hurled into the void is not enough to overcome ego. We see that on our side of the great divide, where some alt-right figures simply cannot come to terms with the fact that they screw up a lot. This reality does not prevent others from being objective about these things. History may be written by the winners, but the great lessons are almost always on the losing side.

One lesson that was more obvious in the past, than in recent days, is that the paleocons always assumed the other side would be bound by an agreed upon set of rules. They were plenty suspicious of Progressives, but they could never bring themselves to think of them as outside the set of rules that decent people applied to themselves. You see this in their willingness to participate in politics by the rules established by the Left. Read old paleo-conservative writing and they never question the basics rules of the game.

The one exception is Sam Francis. In Beautiful Losers he wrote about the difference between what he called the Old Right and the New Right. For him, the former was the conservatism of the 19th century, which was legalistic and theoretical. The latter was the Buckley style conservatism he saw flourish in the Reagan years. This was a conservatism willing to engage in the nuts and bolts of politics. He predicted that their embrace of the liberal rules would eventually lead them to embrace liberal ends.

He was right about the Buckley crowd, but the paleos escaped that fate, only to be hurled into the outer darkness, spending their time either trying to maintain their orbit around the Progressive sun or lamenting their fate. The paleos were not good at building alternative institutions and as a result they were always living like outlaws in a kingdom run by the Left, with so-called allies willing to act as sheriff. It is an inescapable fact that the people hurling paleocons into the void were always their friends on the Right.

That’s one of the more obvious truths about the past failures, but another less obvious mistake remains unexamined. Some time ago I was sent a link to this post by Thomas Fleming, about how to begin the fight again with the Left. It is a well-written post by a great writer, so it is worth reading simply on aesthetic grounds. It has one flaw, however, and that is it repeats the same mistake paleos and others always seem to make when plotting an alternative to the prevailing orthodoxy. That is, the obsession with principles.

A point I have become fond of making, particularly at secret handshake societies, is that principles are the things winners create after they win, to justify their winning. Winners always create an origin story for themselves that suggests their dominance is the product of the moral order. The fetishization of Lincoln, for example, happened after the winners at Gettysburg were firmly in control of the conquered. The spasmodic hooting about unity we hear from the modern Left, is an aspiration they rejected when they were the rebels.

A mistake paleos and others often make is to assume that having a goal requires a well reasoned set of principles, by which they mean morals. Some goals contain within them all the justification they need., For example, Jews want their promised land to be an explicitly Jewish country. Similarly, White Nationalists want a land of their own that is the exclusive domain of whites. In both cases, the goal is the principle and the principle requires no further explanation. To do otherwise suggests the goal is negotiable.

Similarly, paleos were prone to negotiating with themselves. The endless debating over principles is really just an excuse for not moving forward. It may not be intentional, but that is the result. When the conqueror sets out to sack a city, the one thing he never does is wait until he has a detailed administrative plan for managing the city after the siege. The winners of life never lose sight of this truth. Principles are the things you create after the victory to lock in your gains and give the people a reason to celebrate your dominance.

Another thing that all forms of conservatism in the democratic era have struggled to understand is the role of the pseudo-intellectual trimmer. These are the sorts of people who attach themselves to right-wing movements, and immediately begin working to turn them into useful losers. A good recent example of this is Ross Douthat, who thinks the goal of his tribe is to infiltrate populist movements and then purge them of anything useful, turning them into a uniform that poseurs like himself can wear in the morality play.

This is exactly what happened with the Tea Party. What started out as an authentic white middle-class revolt was quickly hijacked by charlatans. In fact, the grifters arrived so quickly it looked like the Normandy invasion. These types of people operate in the same way English pirates operated in the age of sail. That is, the people in charge give them a free pass, as long as they meddle in the affairs of dissidents. The Right has never figured out how to defend itself from this attack or even tried to understand it.

Finally, the thing that got many paleos in trouble is they could never figure out how to keep the lunatics out of their thing. I’m talking about the people who cannot control themselves and say nutty things in public. The Buckelyites just purged anyone they saw as bad for their racket. In fact, it is what defines them. Paleos hated this about the Buckleyites and the neocons, but they never found an alternative. As a result, they were often put in the position of defending people who maybe should have been reprimanded instead.

The alt-right is a good recent example of this. What started as an edgy internet movement was plagued by old school nutters from the white nationalist subculture, as well as by loons who simply lack self-control. As a result, they became defined by guys like Chris Cantwell, instead of people like Mike Enoch. An outsider movement can only be successful if it offers a respectable face to the skeptical public. Policing the ranks for lunatics and subversives is a requirement, but one past movements never mastered.

130 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Mcleod
Mcleod
1 year ago

I don’t have time to explain the way the world is to progressives and conservative inc. The pain is coming and no amount of drum circles or “smart” people conferences can stop it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwuckTkE7T4

Epaminondas
Member
Reply to  Mcleod
1 year ago

You…you mean…not even sweat lodge ceremonies can save us?

wjkathman
wjkathman
1 year ago

Quick correction: Sam Francis wrote “Beautiful Losers.”

wjkathman
wjkathman
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Sobran and Francis were somewhat similar. Both appeared to be men of strong principle and thereby became outcasts in the orbit of “respectable” conservatism. Of course, Sobran was more libertarian and Francis was more identitarian. They’re the type of guys that the current Dissident Right can look to for inspiration.

P.S.: Regardless of that one minor error, this was another excellent essay.

David_Wright
Member
Reply to  wjkathman
1 year ago

Maybe look to them for inspiration but not as examples. They were outliers very early in their careers.

Toddy Cat
Toddy Cat
Reply to  David_Wright
1 year ago

I liked Sam Francis, but Sobran was always a bit too libertarian for me, at least in his later years. Sobran best serves as an early example of what happens when you cross the (((Wrong People))). I reacted to the Sobran incident with shock at the time; I was a full Buckleyite “Movement Conservative” then , and this occasioned my first real doubts. A lot of other people felt this way too; looking back on it, purging Sobran was probably a bad move for Buckley, and for the “Commentary” crowd who was behind it – neither of their reputations ever… Read more »

Epaminondas
Member
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago
Joachim
Joachim
Reply to  wjkathman
1 year ago

I seem to remember Sam Francis identifying himself with bourgeois American elite from before the rise of the American managerial class. Is this correct? Let me throw some counter points at Zman’s valuable article. Maybe if the bourgeois middle-class Tea Party had spent more time thinking about principles (and less about their economic class, their taxes, their 401k), maybe studying the European (actual) right of the last two centuries, they wouldn’t have been vulnerable to the Conservatism, Inc. grifters who seemed to be speaking their language. What’s more, the grifter-subversives would not have been permitted by the oligarchs controlling the… Read more »

Joachim
Joachim
Reply to  Joachim
1 year ago

Thinking about all this, I’m reminded of Jack Nicholson in ‘One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest’, trying to break the water basin loose from the floor and throw it through the window, to escape the asylum and go watch the World Series. With everyone else watching him like he’s crazy, he tries, and fails, “…but I tried didn’t I? Goddammit. At least I did that.”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKQcx1jzn4k His spirit and efforts through the film ultimately inspire the American Indian to break that water basin loose from the floor, and throw it through the window, and escape into freedom, in what I… Read more »

bpromethiusb
bpromethiusb
Reply to  Joachim
1 year ago

great point! be a cultured thug, that shoe has fit for a long time – but i’ve typically had so little patience lately that i usually go for the jugular immediately – i really can’t stand debating deliberate idiocy any more. “These types of people operate in the same way English pirates operated in the age of sail. That is, the people in charge give them a free pass, as long as they meddle in the affairs of dissidents.” just gold, a real insight. one that i might offer is that prior to NR, it seems like conservatives operated much… Read more »

Epaminondas
Member
Reply to  Joachim
1 year ago

The Cultured Thug…that would be me.

Joshinca
Joshinca
Reply to  Joachim
1 year ago

Whenever I hear some pseudo intellectual ramblings such as yours, I’m remindinded of this: “Perhaps the most dangerous by-product of the Age of Intellect is the unconscious growth of the idea that the human brain can solve the problems of the world. Even on the low level of practical affairs this is patently untrue. Any small human activity, the local bowls club or the ladies’ luncheon club, requires for its survival a measure of self- sacrifice and service on the part of the members. In a vdder national sphere, the survival of the nation depends basically on the loyalty and… Read more »

Joachim
Joachim
Reply to  Joshinca
1 year ago

I’m not seeing much “naval gazing” in what I’m writing, rather it seems pretty straightforward and “cause and effect” to me. We all operate on first principles, the question is whose/which ones. The left has provided the ones on which the Western world is operating, through a host of “navel gazing” intellectuals, whose ideas have spread and permeated the world in which we’re living. We’re seeing where these first principles have led us, and where we’re going. These first principles haven’t been spread purely by force of rational persuasion, propaganda (mass media, education) has been central to their spread, and… Read more »

Guest
Guest
Reply to  wjkathman
1 year ago

Bob Seger?

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Guest
1 year ago

Leonard Cohen’s 1966 novel.

Teapartydoc
Member
1 year ago

Francois Guizot in The History of the Civilization of Europe spends a lot of time describing the evolution of the bourgeoisie, especially in France. This is because of the importance of the Third Estate in the French Revolution. His ideas in this book heavily influenced both Tocqueville and Marx. Guizot’s ideas about class were the breeding ground for the Marxist explanation of the Revolution and revolution in general. That said, his interpretation of history remains a source of good information. The applicable thing here is that in the early life of the bourgeoisie they were not what they were later… Read more »

Toddy Cat
Toddy Cat
1 year ago

A lot depends on what people mean by “Principles”. If we’re talking about real moral principles like “Thou Shalt not Murder” or Thou Shalt not Commit Adultery” principles are both admirable and necessary. But the kind of crap that modern Conservative Inc spokesmen come up with, usually stuff like “Thou Shalt not Notice Obvious Facts about Race”, or ‘Thou Shalt Not Question Free Trade”, or “Thou Shalt Love Israel with All Your Heart”, etc, etc, need to be sh*tcanned, and the quicker the better.

Chaotic Neutral
Chaotic Neutral
1 year ago

Okay, to win against the neocons, or progressives or whomever, would have required an escalating battle with a certain racial subtext that would have had an endpoint looking something like Germany in the 1930s or perhaps Spain in the 1400s. Now this was probably not even a possibility in the United States because of the greater racial diversity, even among the white population, where divisions between Protestants and Irish and Italians was probably more obtrusive than what I refer to. However, even had it been possible to organize, I still think Americans would simply prefer the road taken to any… Read more »

Pinochet
Pinochet
Reply to  Chaotic Neutral
1 year ago

It’s not only possible but inevitable. The longer it is pushed off into the future the worse the carnage will be.

David_Wright
Member
1 year ago

You can police the ranks all you want, the enemy will portray the movement the way they want. We are not talking strategic mistakes here as to why the paleos failed. Enoch is not top tier nor ever will be. Greg Johnson? Come on. This is a failure of a culture and the society that was in it. We don’t have enough out there to persuade. Finger in the dyke and other stop gap movements like Trump will forestall the decline but what really is the dissident rights realistic objective here.? But I get it, we fight anyways, just a… Read more »

DeBeers Diamonds
DeBeers Diamonds
Reply to  David_Wright
1 year ago

The Right has a tendency to leave things on the table out of principle, or perhaps we should call it cowardice. There are very few colleges in this country where conservative students are a “silent majority”. Instead, the Right should be organizing as an “affinity group” and demand its own space. But rather than turn the logic of multikult on its head, they prefer to “mock” the left for “safe spaces”. It doesn’t help that TurningPoint is textbook controlled opposition.

Teapartydoc
Member
Reply to  DeBeers Diamonds
1 year ago

This is very close to what I was describing in the post I made earlier. I think that the right today is in many ways similar to the people in the time leading up to the eleventh century who were seeking refuge from overweening lords and nobles. They found refuge in and around towns and villages, and those places, with the help of the peasants and petty merchants who moved there for protection, subsequently managed to throw off the noble yoke. They developed somewhat safe spaces, at least for a time. Then you see the return of kingly power, and… Read more »

David_Wright
Member
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Sin of despair, Catholicism never leaves one does it?
That’s why I ended my post as we fight anyways. Maybe, just maybe.

I am reminded of Kurt Russell’s line at the end of The Thing. You know the scene where all is lost but they heat up the encampment and destroy.
“We aren’t getting out of here alive, but neither is he” .
I not for destroying the good but take out those baddies on the way out if that is the final outcome.

Red pill day tomorrow for me.

Joachim
Joachim
Reply to  David_Wright
1 year ago

This scene from ‘The Truman Show’, complete with Zman’s cloud people (the overlords who trapped Truman in a false reality/prison literally have their control room in the sky, behind a glass dome painted with blue sky and clouds), shows where a critical mass of whites need to arrive in terms of spirit and determination to break free:

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x47swnx

Toddy Cat
Toddy Cat
Reply to  David_Wright
1 year ago

“This is a failure of a culture and the society that was in it.”
Agreed, that’s why we need to reform both the culture and the society. It can and will happen, it’s been done before. But people need to realize that political and military measures are necessary, they are only the beginning.

Our real work begins after we’ve :won:. But one thing at a time.

Chaotic Neutral
Chaotic Neutral
Reply to  David_Wright
1 year ago

Where does Greg Johnson fail? He’s better than anything you would read in the print media, easily.

Wolf Barney
Wolf Barney
Reply to  David_Wright
1 year ago

Mike Enoch and Greg Johnson are both doing what they can to convert people. Whether you think they’re “top tier” or not, I welcome their efforts, and wish we had more like them out there, willing to engage in badthink.

roo_ster
Member
Reply to  David_Wright
1 year ago

Enoch is smarter than you and 99% of other alt/dissident right commentators. He can communicate effectively and is not a math ignoramus. And Greg Johnson’s cultural products such as film reviews and such beat most any I read elsewhere. He has several books containing just film reviews. They are well worth your while.

Broaden your horizons and put a leash on your inner Eeyore.

TBoone
TBoone
Reply to  roo_ster
1 year ago

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on these 2. I get bored with all the names running around/bandied about. Too indifferent to look into them all. I will look into the ones ‘serious’ people take seriously. I mean that as a compliment.

roo_ster
Member
Reply to  TBoone
1 year ago

TBoone: On thing I realized regarding “Our Thing” or “This Thing” is that Gen X folk are on the older end of it. Millennials and Gen Z are a bit different and the means to connect with them are not those that are optimized to appeal to Gen X. Mike Enoch pitches his commo toward Millenials & Gen Z. And has a New Jersey accent. That puts off some GenX & Boomer sorts. Then you listen to him over time and realize he has read deeper in the politics, philosophy, etc. than most any of his contemporaries. And is not… Read more »

Duke Norfolk
Member
Reply to  roo_ster
1 year ago

Yes. Enoch has made mistakes, for sure. But he’s also learned from them and has made adjustments. I respect that. He’s going to be sticking around, I believe.

He’s not necessarily a leader, but he’s got great influence, and as you’ve said, he’s a pretty smart guy.

Rona
Rona
Reply to  Duke Norfolk
1 year ago

If his latest stream with JF Gariepy is any indication, Enoch has learned his lesson. It was pleasure to listen to, they knew just when to put the brakes on the conversation and yet said everything.

Toddy Cat
Toddy Cat
Reply to  roo_ster
1 year ago

Not a big Enoch fan, but Greg Johnson is certainly worth your time, even though I disagree with him as much as I agree.

roo_ster
Member
Reply to  Toddy Cat
1 year ago

If the nutjobs are our #1 greatest internal impediment, #2 has to be leaders or prominent folk in Our Thing that have severe personality issues that prevent them from working with each other. Enoch & Johnson seem less afflicted with this problem.

David_Wright
Member
Reply to  roo_ster
1 year ago

Smarter than all of us eh? How would you know. He walked into a trap in Charlottesville that most could see from far away. His personal life is a few doozies of mistakes. In debates he batting maybe .500, Halsey English had him for lunch.

Yeah I get it though, I do like the guy and he is good to have on our side.
Just ruminate on the names like Pat Buchanan , Frances, Jared Taylor and the like, not anywhere near that level.
Greg Johnson, gay. Sorry

Rona
Rona
Reply to  David_Wright
1 year ago

Enoch walked into a trap because he, like almost everyone on the right, didn’t grasp the importance of not getting involved with WN 1.0. What major personal life mistakes are you talking about?

Greg Johnson’s Counter Currents beats your top level Jared Taylor’s AmRen in quality of writing and sheer number of right wing thinkers whose works it presents. In Johnatan Bowden’s words “Counter Currents is a right wing university”. Your dismissal is really gay.

BestGuest
BestGuest
Reply to  David_Wright
1 year ago

I’m sure it’s a matter of taste and/or perspective. I personally don’t find Johnson persuasive, while Mike Enoch seems like the kind of guy whose company one could enjoy even if one were on the other side. We want folks that can bridge the gap. I know that’s not substantive, but since when have facts and substance been the driving factor of persuasion?

Rona
Rona
Reply to  BestGuest
1 year ago

Johnson’s framing of WN in context of “every nation deserves a homeland” and “nationalism for all people” seems to be a most pragmatic way to presents our ideas to normies. His interviews with Tara, JF Gariepy, Luke Ford etc. combined with reality of whats happening with migrants/illegals/invaders could really get people on board. I have strong disagreements with some of his positions but on the whole, he has exactly the approach we need to bridge the gap.

Enoch as well, as long as he maintain his humor and stays away from crazies.

Guest
Guest
1 year ago

I’m not naturally optimistic, but I remain optimistic about this particular point in time. I went through the poll numbers and early voting numbers last night. Republicans are going to have 54-58 seats in the Senate. Democrats are not going to take the House. I’m sticking with my prediction of 225R-210D, plus or minus 3, in the House. If anything, the Republican numbers in the House are going up from my prediction. Trump is tightening his grip on the Republican party and is accelerating the implementation of his agenda. The alt-right is going to have more room to maneuver than… Read more »

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Guest
1 year ago

It is a huge help to our side that the Lefties seem to support anyone who pushes back against us, and not really noticing that so many of their candidates are simply freakish or overtly criminal. Then you get the charmless scolds like Obama and Hillary. In any sort of real test of what people want in their leaders, these people would not be elected to clean out cat boxes. May the Left continue to make it easier on us in the future, as they have done up to now. At least we have that going for us.

Alex
Alex
1 year ago

This thing will be successful only if the Alt-Poseurs, the unhinged, and random Nazi Larpers can be kept well away. The Left has the MSM to cover up their maniacs and it does a good job of that. We do not have that luxury.

DeBeers Diamonds
DeBeers Diamonds
Reply to  Alex
1 year ago

Whenever Sverigedemokraterna (SD) in Sweden is described in the media, the journos always use the phrase “Neo-Nazi roots”. While libelous by intent, it is not libel by the letter of the law. But the party purged the Neo-Nazis way back in 2000, though it does have a problem with Nordic Resistance Movement entryists. As long as it can be legally tagged as “Nazi” there are certain people that will never vote for it. When something is toxic, it may not be worth salvaging. Just hit the reset button.

DeBeers Diamonds
DeBeers Diamonds
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Communist movements during the Cold War always ran into trouble when there was an ideological disagreement. They fought numerous fratricidal battles, to the point of it becoming a Monty Python joke. In the post-USSR environment, they have been much better at working together. DSA has become the most popular movement on American campuses. Not only is the grifter problem huge, there is also the problem that the other side can get any active participant fired, which usually leads to divorce if married.

Alex
Alex
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

I think the awareness of the potential is a good start among leaders like yourself. (Yes you are…)

Din C. Nuffin
Din C. Nuffin
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

So the Tea Party became co-opted. But did they go away? Or did every one of us vote for Trump?

Rod1963
Rod1963
Reply to  Alex
1 year ago

Here’s my take. It’s not possible. Neither party is going to tolerate another political organization that has the potential to reach tens of millions of angry whites. I remember what happened to the Reform Party and later the Tea Party. Both co-opted and destroyed as viable entities by the GOP. Why do you think the establishment is going after the Proud Boys and RAM? They are crushing anything that gives off a whiff of political dissidence by whites. Look at Jordan Peterson. He’s a old school liberal and scientist who is as moderate as they come and just speaks his… Read more »

DeBeers Diamonds
DeBeers Diamonds
Reply to  Rod1963
1 year ago

Moderate voters hate lawlessness, whether it comes from the Proud Boys or from Black Lives Matter. And nothing kills business investment quite like a riot. The establishment has learned from its early defeat in Berkeley, that our people keep stupidly repeating. If you want to hold a right-wing event, hold it in a right-wing rural area on private property. But that won’t satisfy the martyr complex.

Peterson is controlled opposition, we should arguably signal boost the leftist attacks against him.

BestGuest
BestGuest
Reply to  Rod1963
1 year ago

The demonization of everyone to the right of the (ever-leftward-shifting) NRO staff is something we have to find an effective way of countering. I hope King is reelected in Iowa.

Frip
Member
1 year ago

Z: “The spasmodic hooting about unity we hear from the modern Left, is an aspiration they rejected when they were the rebels.” In all the documentaries re. 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s icons; e.g. writers, rock stars, actors, directors, etc. the background theme employed to give weight to their subject is their iconoclasm. The favored descriptor in these docs is “subversive”. Something dark, clever, and naughty…and utterly cool. Cut to a brooding Dylan photo in black sunglassses with cigarette. The Left used to LOVE that word. (Still do, but will only grant it to their cohorts.) I recall watching a Cheech… Read more »

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Frip
1 year ago

This is a good thing. One of these days, one of our “dangerous” “subversive” good looking, charismatic younger guys is going to break through and change the game completely with the emotional romance-novel-reading upper class white women. Trump may have even been the opening wedge on that one. The Left has a big vulnerability here, especially with the likes of the angry beta boys and wronged wymyn they keep pushing out front.

Frip
Member
Reply to  Dutch
1 year ago

Dutch. I get you. A cool sexy manly guy would have to emerge. The prime cultural influencers (influence here meaning, ability to instill the proper thoughts & feelings we’re to have), are TV hosts, actors-directors, and pop stars. Among these thousands, we don’t have a single representative. Think about that. (Forget the Alt-Right, we don’t even have a lukewarm Conservative.) Such a man can’t even get in the door, and if he does, he’s quickly thrown off the Hollywood sign. So he will have to come unabashedly from politics. (Maybe a handsome novelist who’s articulate on the talk shows, but… Read more »

pimpkin\'s nephew
pimpkin\'s nephew
Reply to  Dutch
1 year ago

Since WW2, there have been three presidents whose celebrity was established outside of politics: Eisenhower, Reagan, Trump. Their cumulative W/L record in presidential races: 5-0. All GOP.

Just a supporting observation.

Bruce Charlton
Bruce Charlton
1 year ago

The *only* alternative to Leftism is a politics based on, derived-from religion: Choose your religion.

ChrisZ
ChrisZ
Reply to  Bruce Charlton
1 year ago

Dr. Charlton! Great to see we’re reading the same blogs. I started frequenting ZBlog and Notions earlier this year, and have enjoyed and profited from both.

pimpkin\'s nephew
pimpkin\'s nephew
Reply to  Bruce Charlton
1 year ago

While agreeing with you, I think it is pathetic that our age is so far removed from its roots in culture that we need to revisit religious belief as a ‘political act’. The materialistic bourgeois idyll of comfy homes in the ‘burbs, isn’t that a ‘religion’? It’s not leftist, anyhow…

slumlord
slumlord
Reply to  Bruce Charlton
1 year ago

Good reply

Al from da Nort
Al from da Nort
Reply to  Bruce Charlton
1 year ago

Mr C.
Agree completely. The Christian Religion is an excellent source of enduring principles, just to start with. While those principles were generally operative in the past, one did not have to be a believer to see that they worked pretty well.

JohnMc
JohnMc
1 year ago

“An outsider movement can only be successful if it offers a respectable face to the skeptical public. Policing the ranks for lunatics and subversives is a requirement, but one past movements never mastered.”

Explain how being a loon for the Left works, but being a loon for the Right does not and you have the answer.

My answer is the loon does not matter. Albeit so long as one has control of the scribes who can manipulate the loons diatribes up or down the Richter scale of public importance.

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  JohnMc
1 year ago

A lot of the normies have checked out. That the media (think Jim Acosta) and the loons on the Left (think Pelosi and Maxine Waters) come off as deranged to a lot of the normies, we simply need to be serious and steady in our positions. People don’t follow the lead of the media like they did in the days of Walter Cronkite. CNN and MSNBC took care of that for us. As they like to say over at Instapundit, “all the Left has to do is not act crazy, and they can’t even manage to do that”.

pimpkin\'s nephew
pimpkin\'s nephew
Reply to  Dutch
1 year ago

This is so true. Take Hillary in 2016; she could have just pretended to be moderate and she would have won. She’d done so before. I watched her campaign for the Senate here in NY and win – despite being an obvious carpet-bagger – by being classy, and low-key, visiting the hoi polloi out here in the western half of the state, eating breakfast at small-town diners, etc., stuff her downstate GOP opponent didn’t bother to do. All she had to do is not act crazy, and she did it. She was – I blush to say this – even… Read more »

Al from da Nort
Al from da Nort
Reply to  pimpkin\'s nephew
1 year ago

P/N; Saw the same thing you did re The Beast from the Upper East [- Side of da Citi, that is] in the early ’00s. She and her Elite Urban White Female cohorts finally felt free to drop the mask of Comity once Obama was going to fundamentally transform us deplorables, IMHO. What a strain it must have been to pretend to have anything in common with the ikkky white males like daddy all those years… No more having to pretend to be like June Cleaver in any way shape or form. Their Global Utopia was just over the horizon.… Read more »

DeBeers Diamonds
DeBeers Diamonds
Reply to  JohnMc
1 year ago

The scale problem is difficult to solve. Alex Jones is probably the furthest along in terms of building his own infrastructure. Otherwise we are dependent on platforms owned, run, or vulnerable to our enemies. Breitbart was caught napping after the election, failing to learn from the example of Chuck Johnson (is he even around anymore?). Every time one of our loons goes off, the establishment gets its pound of flesh.

Member
1 year ago

Speaking of Christopher Cantwell, yesterday his website featured a post entitled, “Bad News for Jews…Gab is Back.”

Running away from the likes of Mr. Cantwell and promulgating that to the world is not a principle that is going to carry the day.

In fact, embracing that principle is buying into Bill Buckley’s craven conservatism.

Lorenzo
Lorenzo
Reply to  Libertymike
1 year ago

I don’t think shunning nascent Hitler Heilers is craven conservatism, but that’s just me.

Toddy Cat
Toddy Cat
Reply to  Lorenzo
1 year ago

All moral factors aside, Hitler was a loser who destroyed his country, and killed more white people than anyone except Stalin and Ghengis Khan. Even if you don’t reject him on any other grounds, for anyone who loves his people and Western Civ, that should be enough.

Member
Reply to  Toddy Cat
1 year ago

That Hitler was a loser does not thereby justify the pompous virtue signaling of promulgating one’s virtue of sprinting away from Cantwell.

Your description of Hitler, “a loser who destroyed his country,” could be applied to Churchill, who also killed lots of white people in service to socialism.

Member
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Who is investing their energy rehabilitating Hitler?

DeBeers Diamonds
DeBeers Diamonds
Reply to  Libertymike
1 year ago

You’d have better luck convincing blacks that slavery was a charitable act.

Member
Reply to  DeBeers Diamonds
1 year ago

The Democrat Party has done a pretty good job of convincing blacks that its plantation is might comfy.

Toddy Cat
Toddy Cat
Reply to  Libertymike
1 year ago

Yes, lots of people are OK with slavery as long as you don’t call it that.

Toddy Cat
Toddy Cat
Reply to  Libertymike
1 year ago

Agreed, but I don’t recall defending Churchill. And in my position, I have little virtue to signal. I just think that the Nazis were a catastrophe for Western Civ in general, and the Right in particular, and that attempting to rehabilitate them is playing into our genocidal enemies hands. If you’re looking for right-wing authoritarians to emulate, Pinochet and Franco and Primo Rivera are much, much more worthwhile.

Member
Reply to  Toddy Cat
1 year ago

No, you did not defend Churchill nor did I attempt to rehabilitate Hitler. I invoked Churchill as an exemplar of your descriptor. Lincoln would also apply.

My point is that to the extent that we spend time falling all over ourselves to separate us from the Cantwells of the world in a misbegotten attempt to persuade Normie to like us, we lose.

DeBeers Diamonds
DeBeers Diamonds
Reply to  Libertymike
1 year ago

Ron DeSantis could easily lose the Florida Governorship because of an accidental remark of “monkey”. Dave Brat might be thrown out of Congress thanks to C-ville backlash. Our actions have consequences in normieland.

Member
Reply to  DeBeers Diamonds
1 year ago

Do you think that Normie is impressed with backpedaling, craven defensiveness?

DeBeers Diamonds
DeBeers Diamonds
Reply to  Libertymike
1 year ago

“I’m a racist and proud of it” “Vote for me”

A real barn-burner

Member
Reply to  DeBeers Diamonds
1 year ago

Who needs Dinesh and the DRRRs with your disposition?

Just like Scott Brown vs. Lizzie Warren in 2012. Once Brown flexed his cuckiness, he was destined to lose.

Why would a Massachusetts democrat or independent vote for the imitation when he could cast his ballot for the genuine article in Warren?

Toddy Cat
Toddy Cat
Reply to  Libertymike
1 year ago

For what it’s worth, I do not think that you were trying to rehabilitate Hitler, and I regret that I might have given that impression. I still think that Nazis were and are pure poison for our movement, for any number of reasons.

Rona
Rona
Reply to  Libertymike
1 year ago

Cantwell is a loose cannon, clearly unstable and exactly the person we should have nothing to do with.
You don’t separate from the likes of him so normies would like you, you do it so they would even consider listening to what you have to say.
It’s like trying to persuade normal people of anything with crazy street preacher as your sidekick.

roo_ster
Member
Reply to  Toddy Cat
1 year ago

I have long thought Franco was the wisest Euro leader before & during WWII.

pimpkin\'s nephew
pimpkin\'s nephew
Reply to  roo_ster
1 year ago

His wisdom was rewarded with a substantial bribe from the British – two million pounds – to stay out of the 2nd WW. The Spaniards nonetheless contributed a ‘volunteer’ division – or maybe it was just a brigade – to the Nazi cause in the east.

That said, without the victory of Franco’s armies in the 1930s, Spain would have spun off into chaos. As recent developments show, Spain has more in common with Yugoslavia than with other nations in Europe.

Member
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Sounds like one of those principles with which the winners do not burden themselves – at least according to you.

slumlord
slumlord
Reply to  Libertymike
1 year ago

Libertymike, exactly. You’ve gotta have principles to at least police the ranks and stop the nutjobs from getting in. The problem is finding the right principles. The main reason why the Right is continually subverted is because it lacks the principles to determine who is in or out. If White Nationalism is your founding principle then why not let the Natsocs in? This is why working out why the Natsocs differ from the Paleocons is important. The problem for the Right in the 20th C was did it not know what it stood for. Natsocs for instance, pushed a virulent… Read more »

Al from da Nort
Al from da Nort
Reply to  slumlord
1 year ago

Slumlord;
You’re right about needing *some* principles. Lack of confidence in their basic principles and instead going with a theology of niceness and good-thinking is how the mainline protestant denominations got converged by homosexual activist infiltrators in their HQ. They are dying and deserve to.

I propose: 1. It’s OK to be White. 2. It’s not OK to be for things that have damaged/destroyed Western Civilization (i.e. NatSoc & InterNatSoc).

roo_ster
Member
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Even Leonard Bernstein took some flack after hosting the Black Panthers. So, don’t be on the stage with nutjobs, but having nutjobs around may serve a purpose.

DeBeers Diamonds
DeBeers Diamonds
Reply to  roo_ster
1 year ago

Plausible Deniability isn’t what it used to be.

Rona
Rona
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

This should be repeated like a mantra on every right wing site.

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
1 year ago

One thing I have observed in recent months is that as the Democrats have amped up their attack on all whites and traditional America, the right, which will soon be the alt-right, no longer has to worry about the bogeymen like the KKK, whom no one in America has seen in decades…Ethnic politics transcends all ideology….Even ’60s liberal Jim Kunstler has come a full 180 and is now calling for the defeat of every Democrat in the country. The other observation is that it is a complete waste of time to campaign for the Cat Ladies’ votes, and no energy… Read more »

TomA
TomA
1 year ago

Once again, go one level deeper. The current conflict is not a debate over ideology where words are determinative. It’s more like a old-time pistol duel where losing can leave you with a hole in the forehead, not a bruised ego. The Left (being human parasites) has always understood this and behaved accordingly. The Right (which frequently have been equally pampered armchair combatants) have suffered from a dementia over the “civilized rules of the game.” A healthy evolutionary fitness regime does away with both forms of deadweight.

Frip
Member
Reply to  TomA
1 year ago

“Once again, go one level deeper.” Most annoyingly pretentious line of the year.

TomA
TomA
Reply to  Frip
1 year ago

I imagine so, if you lack the ability to expand your thinking. Fear not, others are not so deficient.

TBoone
TBoone
1 year ago

Z, did this line of thought happen to be on your mind during dinner with Paul Gottfried? Or was there any similar topic of conversation bandied about?

plavcik0@centrum.cz
plavcik0@centrum.cz
1 year ago

Hi Z , really good writing. I have found you via TRS. Your blog gives me hope, that this world is not turning into hell. Keep good work.

Cabeza de Vaca
Cabeza de Vaca
1 year ago

In all of this I think in all of this what is missing are the motivators for white males under forty, a primal sense of loss. For what I can see of the alt-right/dissident right/maul right/whatever, any ‘leader’ that crops up is Entryist. Because they miss the point, it is carefully concealed rage expressed in a Joker-like nihilism. That is why they would borrow from extremist movements various trappings and then stamp a silly cartoon frog’s face on it. It is a big BFYTW statement. For the white male MIllennial and his allies working two or three jobs with no… Read more »

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Cabeza de Vaca
1 year ago

You bring up a good point. The last time we saw a real sense of hope in the culture (not the false hope of the grifter Bill Clinton) was during Reagan’s terms in office, especially the first term. You had to be there, witness it, and have had some sort of understanding of how it was a way out of the wilderness of the ‘60s and ‘70s. Without that memory and understanding, it is difficult to see how the current situation actually offers some hope, in a historical context. Of course, we also learned that passing the baton to a… Read more »

Toddy Cat
Toddy Cat
Reply to  Dutch
1 year ago

Damned right, Dutch. Someone over at Counter Currents once described the 80’s as “The Last Golden Indian Summer of American Patriotism” and that was dead-bang right. I know all of Reagan’s flaws, and all the opportunities we missed back then, but it was the last time America really felt like America. You can’t help but miss that, any more than you can help missing your first adolescent love (even though you know damned well what she probably turned into…)

Drake
Drake
1 year ago

Remember in the 90’s when the Republicans would brag about their “big tent”? I always thought that was a disaster. Now I know it was more of a con by the crooks running the party. They never wanted to define their boundaries on the left because they always intended to drift that way. Instead, the GOP would have been far better served by expelling HW from the party for his tax betrayal (and all the other ways large and small he undid Reagan’s efforts). Reagan would have done us all a favor if he had chosen an actual conservative like… Read more »

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  Drake
1 year ago

Reagan got TOLD he was going to “choose” Bush. He didn’t really have a choice. The swamp was in effect back then as well – and the fake news arm of the swamp , led by Cronkite , was threatened to be used as lever to derail Reagan’s candidacy if he didn’t comply with the choice. Gary North has covered this issue in the past – as he had a direct connection with a person who was present at the meeting and heard it go down. Even back then – the swamp wasn’t going to let a President do you… Read more »

Drake
Drake
Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

He got TOLD to drop in ’76 so Ford could cruise to the nomination and lose with dignity. Reagan refused to drop out.

He must have really thought he needed the moderates like Bush, and / or he had no idea what an asshole the guy was.

Severian
1 year ago

In short, people on the Right are decent people. It’s almost impossible for decent people to realize that there are individuals who are NOT decent. Who are — there’s really no other word for it — evil. It’s why cops and public prosecutors drink — for every ten felons they see whose life could’ve gone another way, they see one who is just plain evil, who would be a social cancer no matter what he did, or where, or when. If you haven’t seen one of these guys in the flesh, though — I’d wager few of us have —… Read more »

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
Reply to  Severian
1 year ago

They are starting to understand that the Democrats have evil intentions, but in many cases voting is a matter of habit…The upper Midwest got clubbed by the two-by-four of their jobs disappearing, which is why Trump got elected, but that hasn’t happened everywhere.

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  Severian
1 year ago

The problem is even worse than that. Even if you point out to the decent people that somebody is an evil piece of crap that deserves to end their life on fire in a ditch – the “decent people” will often stand in your way and prevent you from doing what is needed. They’ll use their cries for decency and obeying the law as a shield to prevent the evil-doer from getting their just rewards. Put females into the mix and the problem gets even worse because their hamster really gets off in the presence of men who are evil… Read more »

Maus
Maus
Reply to  Severian
1 year ago

This former prosecutor raises his vodka rocks to honor you as a perceptive truth speaker. Any Christian realist knows that evil exists; that only God can overcome it; and that our lot is simply to resist it with every fiber of our being. I have seen it. I have resisted it with the help of able comrades. But it remains baying at the gates of our cities, at the doors of our homes, and at the very ears of our innermost souls. I hope and pray that none of us gives up the fight.

Al from da Nort
Al from da Nort
Reply to  Maus
1 year ago

Maus;
And as Christian men, we have a *duty* to resist the evil that will always be among us, with God’s help and guidance.

A very sincere salute.

Member
1 year ago

While I probably identify quite closely with the paleocons, there did seem to be a bit of Eeyore style pessimism about them, always better at telling us why we were doomed rather than pointing us toward a better future. It is a bit startling how thoroughly they were purged, perhaps when you have your eye on your enemies to the Left, you are susceptible to being totally wiped out by your enemies on the Right. There is a lesson there for today methinks. It isn’t a stretch to say that the gatekeeper neocon “Right” is a more immediate impediment to… Read more »

Member
1 year ago

…it repeats the same mistake paleos and others always seem to make when plotting an alternative to the prevailing orthodoxy. That is, the obsession with principles.… [P]rinciples are the things winners create after they win, to justify their winning. Winners always create an origin story for themselves that suggests their dominance is the product of the moral order. I have to disagree with this. If one looks at, say, the Founding Fathers, the Bolsheviks, and the Nazis, it seems that they all had pretty clear (and quite different!) “principles” to guide their actions, and these principles were established before they… Read more »

John Pate
Member
Reply to  Saurons_Lazy_Eye
1 year ago

You’re talking about selection and maintenance of the aim. Sometimes this will be based on considerations of pragmatism divorced from principle. Strategic military thinking is all very well but it’s always subservient to politics … that’s really the point of the military, to impose the politics. A philosophy needs principles. Clearly, as a matter of empirical observation, politics doesn’t.

Member
1 year ago

And what’s up with that website “Reckonin'”? I’ve heard of some of the authors of the pieces there, but I’ve never come across the site before. And seemingly neither has anybody else. I could only find one comment in the nine most recent articles! (The Fleming piece is nearly two months old and has zero comments.)

james wilsonN
james wilsonN
1 year ago

A general word on Principles. They are terribly important in the lives of good, steady individuals, and of sustainable societies. But you cannot argue principles with those whose principles are detestable, or non-existent. To the contrary, you must not. My outlier example is a pederast I know fairly well. He believes, and believes sincerely, that he loves children. That he has served two terms in prison and has taken several beatings from unhappy fathers does not change his sincere love of children, and of himself. To employ persuasion on some people announces that on some level you accept there are… Read more »

Maus
Maus
Reply to  james wilsonN
1 year ago

Agreed. Principles are not meant to be debated, but to be acted upon. As much as I love well-crafted words, and I very dearly do, the reality is that talk is cheap. Jesus said, “You will know them by their fruits.” Ask not what someone says, but what they do. Therein lies their principles, which can then be judged worthy of emulation or rejection. The hypocrisy of Conservative Inc. is that they silence men for their words rather than condemn (or praise) them for their deeds. In this narrow sense, the idea of noticing good or bad optics at least… Read more »

Frip
Member
Reply to  james wilsonN
1 year ago

“It is especially hard for reasonable people to declare things and people to be out of bounds for discussion.” I’d replace your “reasonable people” with “squishy people”. People (of the Left or Right) have ready-made phrases for who or what is out of bounds. The modern trick is to not sound morally labored about it, but to be quickly dismissive and snide. Such as the often heard, “that’s just wrong”, “ok, that’s creepy”, “there’s a line”, “outlier/wackjob”, or the female short-hand for all the above, “ewwwww”.

Slab_Bulkhead
Member
1 year ago

The idea of a Chris Cantwell vs Mike Enoch dichotomy is pretty funny from an insider perspective. They’re basically the same person, edgy pro-white counter-Semitic post-libertarians who have flirted with third Reich stuff. Cantwell is arguably more moderate and in line with traditional American conservatarianism. Enoch’s bad optics highlight real is arguably worse. The difference is mostly one of recent marketing strategy, with one keeping the old edgy libertarian strategy and embracing bad publicity, while the other tones it down to try and stay on more mainstream, heavily censored platforms. The idea of policing a decentralized “movement” to ensure good… Read more »

slumlord
slumlord
1 year ago

Look, I’ve probably misread the article again but I’ve got to disagree with you on this one again. Principles matter, they really do, the problem is finding the right ones. You are quite right that in the Right continually gets subverted by elements from within. And the main reason this happens is that there is no standard, i.e. set of principles which determines what constitutes membership. Here’s a Litmus test: Are Natsocs Right or Left wing? In the previous post you dissed all those who called Nazi’s left wing. The problem is that when you drill down into its “intellectual”… Read more »

Issac
Issac
1 year ago

All of it goes back to a lack of upper class cohort sympathy I’m afraid. Paleos lost the plot because they lost their old guard wasp and catholic backbone. This elite is who usually does the void hurling and nutter management. Rank and file members in a relatively horizontal movement don’t have the ability to manage their membership, hence the alt right having plenty of 1.0 lunatics who simply orbit and pollute the discourse as they see fit. The issue at hand is finding a functional cohort of whites in the upper class who will at least become white advocates… Read more »

Rona
Rona
Reply to  Issac
1 year ago

Excellent point. It is crucial for us to have a part of upper class on our collective side. White trash optics ensure not only that high status people dismiss the right, but actually feel contempt for it.

Wehrmacht
Wehrmacht
1 year ago

Great article as usual but doesn’t the last paragraph contradict the crux of the article? (not a Cantwell fan btw)

Frip
Member
1 year ago

Z: “I get the attraction of the black pill, but there is a reason for the sin of despair. The Church used to burn black pillers.”

That’s hilarious. Catholic Church: “You’re freaking us out. You’re too Catholic. Sorry, gotta fry. Nothing personal.”

Haxo Angmark
1 year ago

Z-Man inverts reality:

the paleocons (Revilo Oliver, Joe Sobran, Buchanan, Derbyshire, etc.) were driven out of Buckley’s Conservatism Inc. by an invasion of “ex”-Trotskyite communist Jew neo-conz (Podhoretz and Co.). Since

the Paleos, being “civilized”, could not even Name the Jew

they were defeated by the Jew.

so “police” as you wish.

those who cannot Name the Jew,

will be annihilated by the Jew.

King Tut
King Tut
1 year ago

The problem with “policing your own side” is where to draw the line. What is acceptable and what is unacceptable and how do people know in advance? Or know at all? If you decide that policing your own side is necessary then you are handing the lefties a rod with which to beat you. The left never police their own. No degree of lunacy or derangement is beyond their pale. Indeed, they will resolutely defend the lunatics in their ranks because what matters to them is their ranks not the views of the people in those ranks. This is why… Read more »

Frip
Member
Reply to  King Tut
1 year ago

KingTut: “The problem with “policing your own side” is where to draw the line.” Agree. Since your early teens it’s been a life theme. “Watch your reputation.” “Who to hang out with? Those guys, or those other guys? And what will it mean for me? How will it look? Should I care?” Zman: “A rule of politics is to never get seen wearing funny hats. Another rule is to never be on the same stage with a nutjob.” Funny. But I hope someday our guys may get invites to the mainstream stage. But you can be certain, half of them… Read more »

Frip
Member
1 year ago

Z: “[The Flemming essay] has one flaw, however, and that is it repeats the same mistake paleos and others always seem to make when plotting an alternative to the prevailing orthodoxy. That is, the obsession with principles.” Visited parents last night. My conservative yet race-obsessed dad started going off my Right mom about how the Central American caravan has a legal right to enter the U.S. Just two years ago I would have tried to formulate a principled argument against him. Last night I just yelled, “Why can’t they come? Because we don’t want them here! That’s all that matters!”… Read more »

Joseph
Joseph
1 year ago

I couldn’t believe my eyes on this: “As a result, they became defined by guys like Chris Cantwell, instead of people like Mike Enoch.” Mike Enoch, the Daily Shoah, ha ha ha. Funny! Enoch is really a great spokesman for whites. Nothing impresses like “Jews and ovens” jokes. Affirmative Right, the group left over after one of Richard Spencer’s previous flame-outs said this “The Retard Right, by which I mean scum like the (((Daily Stormer))) and (((TRS))), which both happen to be Jewish controlled, only exists to provide the Left with the means of shutting down genuine nationalists and sincere… Read more »

Dave smith
Dave smith
1 year ago

Stoping at waters edge then thrashing the surf. Anticlimactic sticking of thumb in pie saying what a good boy am I.
Drain the water aka swamp;kill the archetypal giant mired in the bottom.