Digital Grifters

Like most slang terms, no one is entirely sure how the word “grifter” came into common usage, but it has been fairly common since the start of the last century. Researchers claim it was carnival slang that crossed over into common usage in the late 19th century and early 20th century. It was possibly a corruption of the word “graft”, another slang term that loosely meant financial crime. Either way, a look at Google Ngram shows it took off in the 1920’s and 1930’s.

One interesting fact about that graph is the usage of the word seems to track with the rise and fall of social trust. In the run up to World War Two, social trust began to decline for a number of reasons. One big one was the financial collapse and the subsequent economic depression in the 1930’s. The fact that the word is increasingly common today, starting in the 1980’s with the digital revolution, suggests a correlation. People are more exposed to corruption now than 30 years ago.

Putting that aside, the microprocessor revolution has changed many things in our culture, one of which is the nature of the confidence man. Before the internet, running a con was an intimate affair. The con man had to personally interact with the mark in order to earn his trust. That meant the con man had to be able to read people and control his own emotions and body language. He also had to understand his mark, so he could say and do things that played on the mark’s vanity.

The life of the analog con man was a dangerous one. Having to operate in close proximity with the mark meant physical risk. If the mark got wise, it could mean a beating or maybe worse. The analog con man therefore had to be highly skilled, but also possess some courage. Often, he was operating in a world with other criminals, maybe even targeting criminals. One mistake, knocking on the wrong door or targeting the wrong old lady, could mean physical harm.

That’s the first thing that has changed about grifting in the digital age. The con man can operate from a great distance, often in anonymity. He can put up a false website that lures people in, based on certain known characteristics. Alternatively, he can create a false persona on-line that ticks the boxes needed to appeal to a class of people the con man is targeting. The confidence game and marketing are often indistinguishable from one another on-line. It’s easier to be a con man now.

Unlike the analog con man, the digital con man no longer has to possess the personal skills to work a mark or a group of marks. They also have a much lower risk of being caught and they don’t have to worry about physical harm. The result is a lower barrier to entry, which means many more con men. In the depression of the 1930’s, money was scarcer so people were more aware of swindlers. Today, the number of swindlers is much higher, so the word “grifter” is more common.

Another difference between the analog and digital grifter is the former operated on a small scale. He had to work a small number of marks at any one time. The latter can work in volume. In fact, the digital con game works better when scaled up as it can then rely on social proof to draw in suckers. While analog grifting was a retail operation, often a bespoke business, the digital con man works wholesale. He skims a little from many people, who often do not notice the con.

One main way the digital grifter works is through front running. They find a fad that is building up steam on-line and rush to the front of it. This helps them get attention from the sorts of people who get caught up in fads. These are people that like being led and need social proof. Once the con establishes himself as a prominent person in the fad, he either asks for support or has something to sell. Think about all the Tea Party sites that offered merchandise ten years ago.

A great example of this is Mike Cernovich. He has jumped from one fad to the next, almost exclusively operating on Twitter. He jumped from fad to fad on-line until he struck pay dirt with his goofy self-help book. He then re-titled it for the Trump era and became a leader of the MAGA cult on-line. When Trump got into office, he then started claiming to be a White House insider. His front-running of Trump allowed him to move a lot of merchandise and establish his brand.

That’s the other aspect of the digital grift. In addition to front running, the digital grifter is always looking to free ride. They look for a movement or fad forming up on-line and then come in with something to sell. It may be a book targeted at the vanity of the people in the movement. E-books are a popular item, because they are cheap to produce and don’t require a lot of work. Video is another, as it can monetize the front-running aspect with just the cost of a webcam.

The real pros in this segment were on display when it looked like Trump was contemplating war with Iran. The cable chat shows were littered with people ready to sell a book on their alleged inside knowledge of Trump, the war planning or the Iranian regime. The same people who peddled books for or against Trump three years ago were going to selling war books. Cable news was a grifter’s ball for a few nights, until Trump pulled the plug on the ear machine.

One similarity between the analog and digital grifter is that the mark builds what he thinks is a strong personal bond with the con man. In an atomized world of deracinated bugmen, there are tens of millions of people willing to follow a guy on-line. Just as lonely old shut-ins were easy marks for the analog grifter, the intensely on-line, who lack the normal personal connections in the physical world, are easy targets for the digital confidence man.

The low barrier to entry means we are Carny Town. The question that remains unanswered is that of cause and effect. Is the proliferation of con men on-line driving down social trust? Is the decline in social trust opening the flood gates for the con men to pour into our lives? Another possibility is that both are driven by the breakdown of white community. A world of atomized strangers is a fertile hunting ground for sociopaths, serial killers and confidence men.

Note: Some have asked why comments end up in moderation. This is the doings of the spam filter I’m using. It is often triggered by epithets, certain links and mysterious word combinations. These messages get flagged as possible spam. Now, in half a dozen years it has blocked over 3.5 million spam messages, so it is trade-off I accept. It means I check the moderation queue once an hour or so. I approve the real comments and trash the spam. Otherwise, there is no moderation.


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MemeWarVet
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MemeWarVet

Funny that Z mentions Mike Cernovich, his face is what pops into my head anytime I hear the word “grifter”

Paintersforms
Guest
Paintersforms

Lawyers. Gotta think twice about anything a lawyer says.

Screwtape
Guest
Screwtape

I could never get past his queer lispy stuttering to bother. I could see why he was writing pulp help books. A face for radio kinda thing. But the whole video and “journalist” angle was a bridge too far. Though if there is a profession that deserves to be mocked by these retards, its journo. We are a culture of grift. Everything is for sale and that is celebrated. Sociopaths? The whole system favors the dark triad. Because we have not just stopped bashing the sociopath’s head in or with a rock, we have lionized them for their “success”. The… Read more »

Lineman
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Lineman

Very well said Brother…

Mikep
Guest
Mikep

Is he the fellow who stuck something up his arse on his YouTube show?

O Gangster
Guest
O Gangster

It seems to me grifters of all types and classes are enjoying great success (both sides). I don’t see much difference between a Cernovich, Shapiro, or even Hannity who is much more “mainstream” and loved by a larger audience of conservatives. I see grifters everywhere.

Member

And Rush.

The Smell of the Sheep
Guest
The Smell of the Sheep

For our edification, someone should come up with a short list “you might be a grifter if…”

Reality Check
Guest
Reality Check

Excellent idea. The first things that come to my mind are the willingness to talk about the ‘ones who must not be spoken of’ and race-realism.

Augustulus Sol Aurelius XII
Guest
Augustulus Sol Aurelius XII

This is good advice. What about our own camp though? The history of the dissident right is replete with rumors of hucksters and government operatives. How can we know if our people are in earnest or perhaps left wing conmen trying to divert funds from the Cause? What if our entire side is some sort of 1984 government or democratic party operation? How can we know the gold from the pyrite? There was a pretty good blogger i followed about a decade ago. He was sort of Steve sailer bracket but seemed more youthful. Later he was outed as a… Read more »

Member

Look out for gratuitous language about minorities and very hateful statements. Not only are they usually grifters, but even if they are sincere, they aren’t doing the dissident right any favors. They confirm people’s worst fears about the dissident right.

Grifters often have giant red flags around them that the sucker sees but ignores. After the mark has been fleeced, you will hear them say things like “I had a feeling this was too good to be true… I knew something was off” If your inner skeptic says ‘something ain’t right,’ listen to it.

Mikep
Guest
Mikep

Sounds reasonable, but who defines “hateful”?

Paintersforms
Guest
Paintersforms

Another example of the labor-saving miracle of technology. Also an example of the moral utility of labor. Thanks Z-man!

Screwtape
Guest
Screwtape

Shrinking the world in our minds because we can email, text, skype with anyone connected to the net makes us feel connected. But at the same time the lack of physical proximity and connection gives us a certain license to not see them as human. The moral universe is then split open as well. Technology is strange like that. A single iphone placed on the table – not even used, between two people having coffee lowers their level of empathy toward one another. Thats all it takes. Extrapolate and amplify that across ‘the world wide web’ and you have a… Read more »

Paintersforms
Guest
Paintersforms

It’s a paradox. I think the old saying “idle hands are the devil’s tools” sums it up best. Giving people who look for ways to game the system more leisure time is a mistake.

And the web was really wild west in the 90s. Pornographers, gamers, PhD candidates, conspiracy theorists, and not much else. Those were the days!

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

Re: ” In the run up to World War Two, social trust began to decline for a number of reasons. One big one was the financial collapse and the subsequent economic depression in the 1930’s. The fact that the word is increasingly common today, starting in the 1980’s with the digital revolution, suggests a correlation. People are more exposed to corruption now than 30 years ago.” Correlate that statement with the graph below on immigration levels into the US: Looks like immigration levels peaked at the turn into the 20th century – and slowly declined from there heading towards WW2.… Read more »

Drake
Guest
Drake

“the run up to World War Two” = The New Deal
America’s first experience with government-gone-wild. Continuous promises of government cure-alls that just created more and sharper recessions. A decent sized minority could see through FDR’s lies, propaganda, and recognized his dabbling with fascist and socialist bad ideas.

Ursula
Guest
Ursula

I agree with you however no one ever wants to talk about how corporate greed and suffering workers lead up to a people wanting socialist/communist policies because they are so poor and miserable even after spending almost every waking minute of their lives working for wages kept artificially low by the presence of hordes of legal and illegal immigrants. It becomes hopeless and people don’t care about the warnings given about the millions of deaths that occur with communist policies, they just see that the nightmare capitalist reality they live in is hell. Even Cesar Chavez, back in the day,… Read more »

Drake
Guest
Drake

Corporate greed and over-reach caused the crash in ’29 – that opened the door for government greed and overreach. It was government, not corporate appetites that caused the suffering in the 30s – hence the fall in social trust.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Donahue from the CoC was on Bloomberg this morning crying about a lack of employable people available, and how it will cause inflation. The inflation he is speaking of is the higher wage rates for the wage slaves of the Bain-type private equity people who want to skim all the profits for themselves. They want cheaper employees and more customers for those forlorn places like Staples that they skim all the assets from. If it takes ruining the culture in the process, so be it. More car elevators for the people living in their second homes in La Jolla are… Read more »

Ursula
Guest
Ursula

Dutch, I wouldn’t wish that sick world upon you, but if you ran for public office you’d win by a landslide. And I’d fear what would happen to a person like you who’s real about our current economic climate. God bless you, brother.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Kind words, thank you. I am happy right where I am, and would rather work, live, and chat with people I like and respect, that’s the best.

Ryan
Guest
Ryan

We can learn even more from that graph.

1. Divide every number by total US population.

2. Make a new graph that tracks foreign born as a cumulative percentage of the population.

3. Include illegal immigration as well.

I think these changes would even better emphasize your point that our shit show has yet to fully arrive.

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

Ryan, that was the entire point of the astroturfed opposition to the Census’ citizenship question. Neither Conservative, Inc. nor the institutional left want American citizens to have that data because they might insist on something being done.

Member

Another reason we have so many conmen is that we can’t see what they look like. If whites only knew what most of these cretans looked like, they would hit the spam button immediately.

greyenlightenment
Guest

Alex Jones is very visible , hosting a daily radio sow , but that has not hurt him , assuming we lump him with the grifters.

Member

Alex is a true believer who hustles vitamins on the side. He has always been consistent, so I don’t consider him the same as someone like Cernovich, who is a chameleon.

Doofenshmertz Evil, Inc.
Guest

The word “grifter,” in my mind, occupies a sort of linguistic grey area with regards to meaning. A swindler or a con man, for instance, is doing something commonly thought to be unethical and immoral, and also most of the time flat-out illegal. A grifter, like a hustler, is somebody who would rather do anything, anything at all, than work at an honest normie job and do an honest day’s work. That could be criminal, or it could be technically legit but just shady. Cernovich and Jordan Peterson aren’t doing anything criminal, they’re just blowing hot air at psychologically damaged… Read more »

Flair 1239
Member

I think Molyneaux gets unfairly tatted in these discussions. He has some really good stuff out there, mainly historical material. He has a great piece of Joseph McCarthy, that was a huge redpill for me. I was 42 when I watched it and it opened my eyes to how deep seated corruption is
In our institutions.

He also has great pieces on Mandela, King, and even Ghandi.

I get that he is overly dramatic and flamboyant, but in my opinion a lot of his deep dives are really good stuff.

Chaz Chazstein
Member
Chaz Chazstein

Also some great stuff on the ancient Greeks…

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

Moly, also brought on “interviews” with some notable HBD figures. Long before (if ever) it was fashionable.

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

I think he’s a good interviewer. And he seems to have endless patience for his “call-in’s.” I can respect that

Member

I’ll second that. Even for an experienced hater like me Molyneaux’s “The Truth About…” series made me realize that people like MLK and Ghandi were even worse than I had thought. Very good stuff.

Vegetius
Guest
Vegetius

There is a line running from 80s heavy metal to 21st century dissident metapolitics.

And I still have “Electric Eye” on loop in my head from the last post…

Paintersforms
Guest
Paintersforms

Does that mean Vikings were the original dissidents? If so I’m very cool with that

Carl B.
Guest
Carl B.

Elmer Gantry wears many different guises. Same as it ever was.

G Lordon Giddy
Guest
G Lordon Giddy

From an 80’s man’s perspective. The grifters that I remember were people like Jim and Tammy Faye Baker, Pat Roberson, Jimmy Swaggart….along with others on TV scamming monthly donations from Christians. And Amway promising get rich schemes for the working class. All the while the working class wages stagnated. This was before the internet got going. Now grifters have moved from just TV ads and TV preachers to all sorts of politics and social media. Try buying something from a Facebook ad. It’s presented as a quality item until you order goes through and then you notice the tracking number.… Read more »

G Lordon Giddy
Guest
G Lordon Giddy

In a sane world instead of Trump having dinner with Zuckerberg and bragging about it like he did on the Rush Limbaugh show a couple of days ago a President looking out for us would publicly embarrass the alien looking Zuck man and demand that he clean up the false advertising and censorship on his spy site.

greyenlightenment
Guest

yeah but this is part of the plan . if trump wins, then one could argue that it was . Trump knows that Facbeook will play a non-trivial role in the 2020 election, so trying to cozy up to Zuck makes at least some sense from a strategic standpoint even if perceived as a betrayal by some voters. Also, I think the wealthy tend to be well networked and less invidious than the poor and middle class.

Rwc1963
Guest
Rwc1963

Trump lhas shown zero qualms about betraying his base. You could see that at his San Jose rally where he fled CA after the Democratic goons beat his supporters to a bloody pulp. He never condemned that action or supported those that we harmed.

Immigration and deportation, the same thing.

Then he greenlights bringing in even more H-1B’s and H-2’s into the U.S. Bends over for Apple and it’s sweatshops.

Trump only cares about Trump.

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

The fact that no Journo asked him if he used E-verify* in his businesses was one of the “tells.”
* It was only Spring ’19 when Don Jr. and Eric began to use E-verify, only to discover that Trump companies employed many illegal aliens. Was their response to increase wages to attract citizens? Hell no! It was to apply for more foreign workers (H-2B.)

greyenlightenment
Guest

As cliched as it sounds, only you can help yourself. You cannot look to politicians or businessmen-turned-politicians for the answers.

Reality Check
Guest
Reality Check

I’ve been thinking for quite a while that what ever effort he is putting into the open borders is just to string along his increasingly whacked out base…

Exile
Member
Exile

The powerful fanboi identification with e-personalities is one part of this phenomenon, as we see around here at times when some fandom feels Their Guy is being gored. On the one hand we have the persistent problem of cynical individualist contrarianism, stemming largely from our widespread libertarian priors (myself included), On the other, we have the guys who want to focus on a Supreme Leader or the One Thing We Must Do/Not Do. Our dynamics as a group are often volatile due to this mix of knee-jerk non-believers and true believers. Part of Z’s recent theme about shunning weirdos and… Read more »

Member

What you are getting at is toady-ism.

“Oh, Generic Commentary-Man, you are so smart and erudite, can you help me understand better if I strike a submissive-enough pose?” (include kissy-slurpy background noise). Think about it: even rumpswabs such as KD Williamson have rumpswabs.(1)

I see it on nearly every commentary site and blog. There has to be a social function/phenomenon/utility behind it that I have yet to suss out.
.
.
.
(1) “Its turtles/toadies all the way down.”

The Smell of the Sheep
Guest
The Smell of the Sheep

It’s also a good way to elicit an answer. Even grifters are not immune to flattery.

Apex Predator
Guest
Apex Predator

So VoxDay’s entire comments section basically? Got it…

Exile
Member
Exile

Apex, your instincts are sound as usual (good contribution at UR on Fredo Reed’s latest, BTW) – I’m dancing around namingtheGamma to avoid the VDPC’s who seem to use search-bots to detect the “B word” and other flags around here. The alpha-lite among them is net positive as I’ve said before, but harvesting the ComicCon fringe of Heartiste’s man-o-sphere (PBUH) meant the alpha-lite legion’s genes would be thin and rife with spiteful mutation. To uber-lite’s discredit, he feeds that monster for adulation rather than raising them up and demanding they become leaders rather than followers. His choice. Loyalty deserves a… Read more »

Zeroh Tollrants
Guest
Zeroh Tollrants

Not to sound like an arse, but seeing dudes Fawn over other dudes who have some quantity of e-fame, super grosses me out. I am used to my fellow females stupidly fawning over pop singers and the Kardashians, everyone knows most women are gullible af, but dudes doing it to other guys or some e-thot that will never give them time of day? It’s painful to watch.

Member

Would you agree that a health dose of “cynical contrarian individualism” serves to immunize against grifting?

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

Exile, what you say may be so. But it seems there are a lot of people labelled grifters on this forum. In the few cases where I disagree, it is apparent to me that their (grifters’) body of work is little known in depth. That and the very looseness of the definition of “grifter” here promotes some skepticism on my part at the frequent application of the label. I note also that the greatest rebuke seems to be reserved for the most popular of these folk as well, perhaps that’s natural as they could be seen as the greatest practitioners… Read more »

Exile
Member
Exile

Comp, who among Us is named a grifter?

De Ferres
Guest
De Ferres

At least Cernovich is a talented grifter. Like he’s actually good at grifting, built a brand, probably makes good money on SUPER BRAIN juice.

When I think of a shitty grifter, look no further than that retard Richard Spencer trying to gain clout for his failing brand on the view and CNN. His Iranian themed and Michael Moore retweeting twitter is a thing to behold. No wonder the alt right is a joke, it would have been better off under a talented but cynical grifter rather than a retarded one.

Exile
Member
Exile

Gotta disagree. Cernovich isn’t talented, he’s try-hard and has just enough connections to keep pitching no matter how many times he has to reboot.

I put Spencer a notch above Cerno simply by virtue of his lack of merch ala Monkey-Mind-Juice. Spencer’s worst flaw is his McCain-like lust for adulation as a “great leader.” While I can see him LARP’ing like American Psycho about being the Neo-Fuhrer, at least he’s not shekel-grubbing,

Happy Merchant
Guest
Happy Merchant

Spencer’s just in it for the mushroom Swiss burgers.

Member
Felix_Krull

The current batch of dis-right grifters are the Knights of Summer. They took the Youtube shekel, and they saw that it was good. Now they whine about censorship when their mortal enemies oust them from their platforms. There are a dozen alternatives to Youtube or Facebook, if what you simply want is a platform to express your opinions. But there are no shekel involved, of course, and that’s what the Knights of Summer whine about: being demonetized, not getting their fair share of crumbs from Establishment Social Media. The low barrier to entry means we are Carny Town. The low… Read more »

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

Newspapers and magazines were destroyed for a number of reasons, but the comments section was bigger than most people think. Commentors showed over and over that the reporters didn’t know what they were talking about, insanely bias and usually both.

It’s why many outlets don’t allow comments anymore.

Member
Felix_Krull

Just so.

And not just commenters. Anonymous commenters; give a man a mask and he’ll tell you the truth, as heinous degenerate Oscar Wilde said.

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

Hummmm. Wasn’t Oscar Wilde a “butt pirate” like the “Amazing Randy”? And yet you quote him? 😉 Seems he and everyone else of like sort should be cast into the void and forgotten. 🙁

Member

Wilde probably also believed things such as “water is wet.” Even a degenerate says true things, sometimes.

Exile
Member
Exile

Very meta, Krull-san. Good stuff.

Obake158
Guest
Obake158

It would be interesting for some of us to get together and use this phenomenon against the Anti Whites by setting up businesses to sell ridiculous products and use the funds to support white well-being. Some things that come to mind are selling garbage merch to cat ladies like solidarity hijabs, rainbow colored prayer flags, Trump piñatas, Green New Deal stickers, Ban White Men t-shirts, Make America Green Again hats. I’m sure that a few brain storming sessions with a white board and notepads at a meet up would be a fun exercise that could home in on some sound… Read more »

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

They would sell like hotcakes with huge markups. Extra points for having it manufactured by Chinese slave labor. The possibilities are enticing.

Member
Felix_Krull

The problem with that plan is that if it succeeded, it would create an incentive for the merchants to create more cat lady customers, they would turn to the dark side.

King Tut
Guest
King Tut

An additional benefit would be that you get a database of enemy names and addresses.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

When I hear the word “grifter” I always immediately think of the Clintons. All the politicians are pretty much grifters in my book, but the Clintons are world class. They all pitch you that they alone can save the world through policy position xxx and sponsorship of bill yyy. They are really just playing off of people’s preferences and desires, in order to scalp them for political power and their own personal financial gain. I will never willingly donate a penny to any political entity, ever.

Samladams
Guest
Samladams

Can tell you from experience the Clintons were running the king of all grifts. CGI was really a pyramid scheme. Got a look inside when two of my old firms’ large trading partners “joined up”—and were promptly encourage to recruit other firms in our industry vertical. Since one of my jobs was keeping stuff like this from getting to my boss’s desk (a “C” level guy) had to go to one of the CGI meetings in NYC, meet the Clinton crew and then listen to the follow up pitch at their then palatial offices up on 6th Ave. So basically… Read more »

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

My CGI experience was an earnestly designed and pitched green energy project for West Africa, all done and presented by smart and capable native (black) West Africans, who held legit U.S. engineering degrees. Exactly the kind of thing CGI was supposedly all about. The grant request was relatively small, in the six figures for start-up. Crickets. No response, not even an exploratory conversation. CGI is/was a con.

I believe the legitimacy of the project was a problem, as the opportunities for grifting off the thing were probably not great, at least at first.

Samladams
Guest
Samladams

Not surprised. At all. One of the more surreal parts was a “prospective members” breakout where Chelsea introduced the McKinsey guy CGI brought on to help bring rigorous “measurement” of results—sitting there thinking—ok so you guys are cycling eight figures a year in cash flow through this thing with absolutely no idea what the results are beyond paying for your personal expenses and keeping all the Clinton hangers on employed at the British naval officer’s equivalent of “half pay” until Hillary’s campaign spins up (she’d just resigned from State at that point). Got it. Sign us up… Your African friends… Read more »

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

I warned them CGI was not what they thought it was. But they, being honest, earnest people with respect for America and Americans, proceeded with the application and got a small dose of reality thrown in their faces…in yours and my names. The whole thing ticked me off.

Member

A key aspect of a grifter is that you are not getting what you pay for. The product is imaginary, substandard or ineffective. In what case is that true for this crowd? You pay for a book, you get a book. You pay for a t-shirt, you get a t-shirt. You pay for an exclusive video, you get one. Just as with any author or entertainer, if you don’t like what you get you stop coming back — and most of these types depend on repeat business. I think we have to think primarily about ideological grift. With Ben Shapiro,… Read more »

greyenlightenment
Guest

that is good point. you think you are paying for conservatism and trad valued but just getting repackaged Zionism

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

Great point. That may be the key distinction between a Shapiro and a Vox Day. Vox Day may be profiting off the movement by selling whatever it is he sells, but he does seem like he’s on our side.

Again, I keep finding it odd that I defend Vox Day since I find him more than a bit odd.

Member

You and me both. He’s very odd and kind of an asshole, but I think he’s sincere and he is building communities and structures. I don’t mind if he makes a buck. He’s running a business.

terranigma
Guest
terranigma

Unlearn the habit. “Rooting for the underdog”, “Don’t punch right”, slave morality and the ADL all serve the same function: cover and protection for egomaniacs and predators. A common observation on the demise of the Tea Party movement is that it got nothing accomplished after the subversives, clout chasers and grifters were done siphoning away its energy to feed themselves rather than benefit the nation. Nothing was done with this observation, so interested parties still have to navigate a gauntlet of egomaniacs, weirdos, degenerates, grifters and subversives. Those that do find their resources spent on the same things the Tea… Read more »

Anon
Guest
Anon

You pay to sue IndieGogo into oblivion, you’re not even privy to the resolution.
You pay for Proud Boys’ legal defense fund, they’re rotting away in a cell.
You pay to sue the SPLC, nothing gets off the ground.
You pay for Alpha Wave Clairvoyance pills, you still can’t hear the Chinese Technofascists on your police scanner.
You pay for Gorilla Juice Concentrate, you’re nowhere nearer being a chick magnet.

These are fantasy salesmen monetizing people’s angsts and insecurities.

Member

IndieGogo: Settlements routinely have non-disclosure clauses. It’s just the way things are. Did Vox Day at any point guarantee “no settlement?” It’s often the best thing to do. Proud Boys: You can’t demand a guaranteed outcome from contributing to a legal defense fund. That’s just the way things are. SPLC: I thought things were still in process with that. Unfortunately, the wheels of justice turn exceedingly slowly. Mark Steyn has been waiting for his day in court against Michael Mann for eight years. Alpha Wave Clairvoyance Pills: Are those a real thing? That’s an old-fashioned snake oil grift. No argument… Read more »

Anon
Guest
Anon

IndieGogo: See, what you need to understand is, “we virtually hold their fate in our hand at this point”. What part of “make the rubble bounce” is even remotely congruent with granting a ND clause to a party whose skull is (supposedly) nice and ready for collection? Never mind the moral and legal skeeviness of roping your patrons into your lawsuit, then having them sign an agreement whose content is kept secret from them. Said secrecy resulting, I’m reliably informed by his Darklordship, not from his initiative. In other words, it was likely a concession or a bargaining device. Way… Read more »

Member

I’ll take your word for it on the Indigogo thing. I didn’t follow it closely. He may not have had a choice due to the user agreement.

I know there are a number of suits pending against SPLC by different parties. I’m not an expert on any particular one of them, but it’s going to take a long time.

Clearly I am not doing my duty to fight globalism by staying knowledgeable about Alpha Game Alpha Alpha Supplement (now with 90% more Alpha)!

greyenlightenment
Guest

why is vox unable to talk about it? For months he was saying how IndyGoGo would be crushed, and his case seemed very strong. I find it very implausible that he got nothing out of it but just refunds. It may have been settled before it had a chance to became an actual legal case.For example a personal injury case can be resolved without going to court if the case is strong enough. A lawyer is contacted, and a dispute process begins, specifically what is known as an Alternative Dispute Resolution. This means that the problem is resolved without anything… Read more »

Member

The arbitration has been sealed from what I can gather (I am not in the know). Indigogo KNEW VD was behind the Castalia Jr Classics campaign and did not take it down. That is all I need to know.

Exile
Member
Exile

If there was a lawsuit, there would be a public record of the case and a record of the petition to compel arbitration. Z’s correct that arbitration is king because it lets the judicial branch tactically libertard itself out of doing its job. To the extent Chief Voice of Dawn LARP’d about lawsuits, he was casting shadows.

Anon
Guest
Anon

Thank you both for correcting me. I misspoke when I said “sue” and “lawsuit”. I recollect that with IndieGogo it was arbitration all along that was claimed, not litigation.
That that was itself posturing is news to me. I know he promised armageddon and delivered undisclosure, but he looks to have been more impish than even I gave him credit for. Egg on face.
Plainly I need to reup on the Alpha Alfalfa.

Member

VD never said there was a lawsuit that I know of. He said there was arbitration.

GDONE
Guest
GDONE

He’s told so many lies in an effort to cover his tracks. Here is an example. https://tinyurl.com/tate3l4

That’s not how arbitration works.

There is no such thing as class-arbitration. To get a class certified for a lawsuit, it means going before a judge and that is a public record.

He’s a con man. When one lie is exposed he tells three more. It’s just lies on top of lies.

Member
Snidely_Whiplash

.

Chaz Chazstein
Member
Chaz Chazstein
terranigma
Guest
terranigma

This is how a cult leader reassures the faithful: Denigrate the faithless to instill self-righteous superiority within the cult so that they dismiss any counterclaims without thought. Real evidence is no longer necessary.

A measured response is to link to evidence or acknowledge that a sealed arbitration leaves room for skepticism.

CrockTard
Guest
CrockTard

If he filed suit in court, there would be a record. If he filed for arbitration, he could post up the commencement letter on his site. There would be nothing preventing him from doing that. Even if the parties agreed to not disclose the settlement, that would not prevent him from acknowledging there was arbitration.

He’s a liar and his cult is full of retards.

Chad Bigly
Guest
Chad Bigly

Or he could just not care what some random internet loser like you thinks. Ever consider that?

terranigma
Guest
terranigma

This blog post by Beale is an ego-driven overreaction that gives me the evidence to state that he uses sock accounts.

“Reality Check” is a strong hit for one of Beale’s sock accounts. That Reality Check’s thoughts and attitudes towards ZMan – which were presented prior to this blog post – are very similar to the thoughts and attitudes displayed in Beale’s blog post is not a coincidence.

Member

You can use basic html tags in your text: b in angle brackets starts bold face, /b ends it. Same with i for italics, u for underline and strike for strikethru. Sorry, too lazy to look up the code to display an angle bracket to make that explanation pretty. 🙂

Anon
Guest
Anon

Thanks Vizzini, I’m feeling bolder already.

Chad Hayden
Guest
Chad Hayden

No, those clairvoyance pills really work…I defeated space aliens once on those

greyenlightenment
Guest

in the case of Vox and his lawsuit against indygogo , that was the condition of the settlement

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

Vizzini, that’s my usual definition of a grifter—ideology. If he believes in one thing today and another tomorrow or in one thing privately but states another depending on audience. He speaks falsely. He is a grifter in the ideological sense to me and should be avoided. Other types of grifters are just con men and thieves, and they’ve been around forever.

Folks however, who are true believers, albeit mistaken in those beliefs, I have no problem with morally. I usually respect them, but do not waste my time with them.

greyenlightenment
Guest

who cares, really. If someone wants to push dubious pills and self-help books that is their business at the end of the day. Those sites tend to be of low quality anyway and cater to a low-information demographic, so you are not the sort of person who would be most susceptible to such grifts. This is what the left tries to do, by trying to protect people from their stupidity. The result is safe spaces and regulation. Making money at this sort of stuff is hard and does not pay for itself. You have to sell product in order to… Read more »

TomA
Guest
TomA

The morphing of the original analog grifter into the modern digital variant is an excellent example of fast evolution. The environment changed, and the con man evolved to exploit the vulnerabilities in this new artificial construct we call the technological age. Affluence breeds parasitism breeds easy predation. In natural evolution, this process would cull the weak. But in our modern world of government interdiction in everything, the weak thrive nonetheless. And the beat goes on.

gwood
Guest
gwood

“The question that remains unanswered is that of cause and effect.”
Cause and effect can run both ways at once. That’s what a feedback loop is.

Karl Horst (Germany)
Guest
Karl Horst (Germany)

It’s always been interesting to me in the history of American criminality over the past 150-years or so, that Italians and the Irish seem to be the biggest organized criminal groups. Then there’s there’s the black and Mexican gangs and what I would call “incorporated” white gangs like the Hells Angels. I understand the Russian and Chinese mafia has also established themselves in the US, but have shown up much later. Why is it we don’t hear or read much about German crime gangs, or Dutch crime syndicates or Scandinavian drug lords in America? It is because they’re more moral… Read more »

Dak Jempsey
Guest
Dak Jempsey

The Germans don’t need gangs because they typically run the police force and most civic institutions. The rulers don’t need to commit crimes if they can change the rules.

Member

Too poorly organized perhaps?

I think that is the first time I have ever heard it suggested that Germans are poorly organized. 🙂

Germans and Dutch are rules-followers. Organized crime is societal chaos. They are fully capable of being successful within the rules.

Scandinavians are community-minded. At its worst, that comes out as creeping SJW-ism (we have to save everyone from themselves), instead of criminal.

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

Well, at least for the Germans, they were the largest nationality in this country after the English through WWII and probably into the 60’s before the Hispanic invasion. Lack of Germans is not the reason for lack of “German” criminal syndicates. However, IIR, there were some notable Germans in the 20’s and 30’s in bootlegging gangs—“Dutch” Schultz comes to mind.

My suspicion is that the Germans, Dutch, English were so well integrated into this country by the 20th century as not to be noted or notable, whereas the Italians, Irish, and Russians were “Johnny come lately” here.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

“Dutch” Schultz was Jewish.

Rcocean
Guest
Rcocean

Yeah, I don’t know why he was called “Dutch”. His real name was Arthur Simon Flegenheimer;

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

Back in the late 19th c. organized crime was mostly street-level and contained in the respective ethnic enclaves (Jewish, Italian and Irish.) They ran protection rackets, ran numbers, sold gov’t jobs. No real wider influence. Until Prohibition which is when the the syndicates really gained power (that’s when the German community began to–right or wrong–disregard the law and support organized crime.

Zeroh Tollrants
Guest
Zeroh Tollrants

In America, the Jewish monsters were much more powerful than either the Irish or Italians, dude.

gay cunnnnz
Guest
gay cunnnnz

Maybe better integrated into American society in the time period mentioned. Being part of an immigrant enclave is probably immensely helpful for organised crime: one, you have a group you’re more loyal to than the legitimate authorities; two, the people you’re robbing aren’t your people, which probably goes easier on your conscience; three, law-abiding members of your community might still prefer you to the legitimate authorities, who are foreign to them. And yes, I know: these gangsters preyed on their own communities as much or more than outsiders. Still, even if only a small percentage of their victims were from… Read more »

Anon
Guest
Anon

It doesn’t help that truthful men and frauds alike looking for online exposure feel the need to craft, maintain and burnish a contrived persona. The obsession over branding as a sensible pathway to prominence and an efficient way to snag the rootless & atomized yearning for tribal belonging, has the effect of blurring the line between earnestness and fakery. Hence the hokey theatrics worthy of Walter Winchell. Come to think of it, pantomime has been the norm since the beginning of broadcasting. You must impress to be listened to. I suppose in the absence of social credentialing from the community… Read more »

Ursula
Guest
Ursula

“Cernovich – Shtick: I’m a fearless balls-out gorilla” WHO LOVES LADYBOYS
Modern American Man. Product of modern self-worshiping Jewish, er I mean secular, western society. Gag, pass vomit bag this way, please.

Matt
Guest
Matt

Whenever I try to connect with Twitter or Disqus I get an error.

Member
Felix_Krull

Thanks for sharing.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

Now, that’s funny.

chedolf
Guest
chedolf

“Confident prediction: Since all Western societies have now irrecoverably lost all sense of common responsible government, they will loot the shit out of themselves until it’s over.”
Nick Land

TomA
Guest
TomA

Please let it be so. Crash and burn is the fastest path back to a natural evolutionary environment in which fitness selection will once again favor robustness.

Ursula
Guest
Ursula

Press the “Mute” button and observe — that is exactly what we’re seeing. Looting like they don’t have a lot of time so it doesn’t matter if we see them and do not approve. Like they’re protected and our people are destined to be smothered out. I’m not sure when, how or why, but I am expecting a great culling in the near future. A very unfair culling on a massive scale, something people who believe in fantasies will be caught short by.

JR Wirth
Guest
JR Wirth

“A great example of this is Mike Cernovich.” – I was waiting for this line to come up, and I wasn’t disappointed. Yes, there are more con men (and women…ahemm….Candice Owens…ahem…) The great thing about the internet however is that you also have real access to unlimited sources to verify. Walter Cronkite was a grifter for the established political elites. Today you have a thousand tiny ones instead of a few “trusted sources”, most of whom are just out to make a buck. Most of the population falls for lies most of the time. Social trust always declines when countries… Read more »

kmbr
Guest
kmbr

Cernovich did some decent work during the election season. He was a key figure in getting Hillary’s health in doubt. #SickHilary was all him. I don’t know much about his early years, I have read bits and pieces. I don’t follow him and don’t pay close attention to him though I did during the election. I felt like he starting to cuck a bit more because of his daughter and the fact that his wife is Iranian brought him a lot of hatred, that would tend to turn you off of certain politics, I guess. That was when I stopped… Read more »

Beachcomber
Guest
Beachcomber

I’m not sure Sick Hillary started with him. I saw a lot of memes about her health on /pol. That was infinity Chan /pol which is now gone.

I stopped paying any attention to him when he made his movie Silenced and cut Baked Alaska from his entourage. Not that I liked BA, but it showed Cernovich is a hypocrite.

Pickle Rick
Member

Maybe because we’re not allowed to use “Shylock” anymore

KGB
Guest
KGB

Funny you mention that. I’m working through a 1000+ page US history book from the mid-60s. Last night I was reading the part about the settling of national debts after WWI and the author wrote that many Europeans groused that U.S. actually stood for Uncle Shylock. This despite the fact that the U.S. often received pennies on the dollar for what it was owed.

The book, not surprisingly, uses plenty of words that are verboten in serious scholarship today.

sheliak
Guest
sheliak

Is Z inviting readers to examine whether he is himself a digital con man? The first several times I visited this site, I asked myself this question. Still do with some of his posts. I would think Z would expect nothing less from us.

Ifrank
Guest

How to spot a con man?

1. Who is his paymaster?

2. Ever caught in a lie? Two faced.

3. What does he do when he makes a mistake or is just plain wrong about something?

4. Oily. Uriah Heep.

Gauss
Guest
Gauss

The rise of the term starting in the 1990s is probably attributable to the movie The Grifters, released in 1990. Excellent flick, btw. It certainly fits the present times of decreasing trust.

dan9fromOuterSpace
Guest
dan9fromOuterSpace

“The fact that the word is increasingly common today, starting in the 1980’s with the digital revolution, suggests a correlation”

the movie from 1990 probably helped.

sirlancelot
Guest
sirlancelot

The sirens call of easy money is certainly a powerful one. Gain enough popularity on the internet and t-shirts / merch are always forthcoming 🙂 Expound on a topic popular with a large enough group and here comes the book deal. I suppose if the presenter is not sincere with what they preach it could be considered deception for monetary gain. But wouldn’t consider it any different than a used salesman trying to sell some rusty heap. At the end of the day it’s just a business = buyer beware. On the other hand robbing seniors of their life savings… Read more »

Codex
Guest
Codex

According to the OED grift may be related to graft, which has origins in the word for digging. This is confirmed in th at an 1890s “grift” was a channel or crack in the ground.

HTH