One of the sad truths about the Trump era is that the Republican Party will return to being the Bush party as soon as Trump leaves office. The 2020 election could be a blowout, giving Trump a mandate to push through all sorts of populist projects, as well as giving the GOP a huge majority. Trumpism could become the default position of the base, but the party will immediately begin selling itself as a the kinder, gentler Trumpism as soon as Trump is in the rear-view mirror.
It is one of the enduring features of post-war America. Pat Buchanan pointed it out way back in the 1980’s, when he observed that the people vote conservatives to Congress, only to see them go native in a few years. It is a remarkable transformation made more obvious in the communication age. You can just follow the person’s social media feed to see the transformation. They go from representing their people in Washington to Washington’s representative to those people.
The question that has vexed the genuine Right is why this seems to be a phenomenon of the Right and not the Left. There are no examples of left-wingers going to Washington and becoming moderates. That only happens when the Overton window shifts Left. Yesterdays’ hair on fire crazies suddenly sound like statesmen. Back in the 1980’s, when Schumer and Pelosi hit town, they were considered embarrassments to the party, but today they are what passes for normal.
This is not just an American phenomenon. The rest of the English-speaking world has the same issue. In Canada it is called Red Toryism, a sort of center-right conservatism that trails along behind their Left. In Britain, of course, it is just called Toryism. There it is the default position of the ruling class, which is always drifting further Left. The Aussies, of course, have an upside-down version of this with a funny name. Weak and timid conservatism is the default all over the English-speaking world.
It’s not just that it is timid or disorganized. As the Canadian political theorist Ben Woodfinden notes, it is a reaction to the collectivist impulses of the Left. The Left seeks to use the state to reorganize society according to their current fads, so the Right opposes the state as a legitimate entity. Not just the state, but institutions in general, instead promoting radical individualism. Conservatism comes to be defined as something just as radical as what’s on offer from the Left.
What English speaking countries need is a conservatism that will transform the state into something that will strengthen and support traditional institutions. Instead they get a force that weakens those institutions. The conservative revolution of the 1980’s in America, unleashed rapacious global privateering in the name of free enterprise and entrepreneurial spirit. Instead of restoring the damage done by the radicals of the 60’s and 70’s, it created new mayhem.
You see that forming up in Britain and America in response to the rise of archaic socialism, in the form of Sanders and Corbyn. Conservatives on both sides of the Atlantic are now working themselves raw about this new red menace. Instead of examining why these collectivist appeals, including the rise of populism, are attractive to the voters, they lurch further into radical individualism. This is every bit as destructive to the culture as the radicalism it claims to oppose.
The culture war is one side using the state to destroy tradition, while the other side makes it impossible to form a collective defense of the culture. The reason for this is that, at least in the Americas, there has never been an authentic conservatism. America has always been a radical bourgeois project. After the Civil War, that radicalism became the default of the political class and remains so today. This reformist impulse is the distinguishing feature of the American empire.
That reformist impulse has its roots in the founding. On the one hand, those people we call Puritans were collectivists reformers. They believed society was judged collectively, which gave them license to police the community for sinners. Advancing society, social progress, meant bringing the bottom up in a spiritual sense. On the other hand, a man’s relationship with God was his alone. Self-sufficiency was a sign of God’s grace, an indication that the person was in good standing with the Lord.
Both sides of this coin are quite radical, relative to Western tradition. In fact, it is fair to say the Puritans were anti-tradition. They stripped their houses of worship of all ornamentation and any reminders of past practice. They saw tradition and ritual as an excuse for not exercising the spirit through the regular study of Scripture. The collective impulse of the founding, as well as its individualism, are the result of a rejection of European traditionalism on spiritual grounds.
This is why reform in America has been impossible. The periods of radicalism in the name of collective reform have been followed by periods where the institutions are weakened in the name of individualism. These weakened institutions become vulnerable to a new round of radical reform. This cycle has locked the ruling class into a dance that always moves Left. No matter the response of the public at the ballot box, the direction is always Left, just with a different lead.
Ironically, this means that the only way a genuine conservatism can emerge, and in the case of Britain, reemerge, is by overthrowing the current order. This Progressive orthodoxy of radical reformers entangled with radical individualist will need to collapse into a single unified ideology, while something new arises to oppose it. That something new is the defense of traditional order, organic institutions and the popular will expressed through natural identity.
That means the way forward is an intermediate step of right-wing radicalism that first seeks to discredit and delegitimize the prevailing orthodoxy. From the rubble can be built new institutions and ideologies that are salient to the demographics age. A genuine conservatism can be intellectually conceived, but the traditions that it should rest upon have been eliminated, so it will require a dismantling of current institutions and the building of new ones, loosely based on the traditions of the West.
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Bad news in Remus’ Woodpile today.
“A personal note.
There’s no gentle way to say this, so I’ll not try. My wife is at the end stage of a terminal condition. As is always the case there’s some uncertainty. Weeks are possible, days are probable. Woodpile Report will go dark for a while when it happens. “
So sorry to learn this. My best wishes to you and your family.
I don’t know what the labels political left and political right even mean anymore.
The terminology is so obsolete as to be obscuring and provides negative utility at this point.
basically moderate white democrat at 1990s are Nazis now
That’s how far we have fallen and we have been trying to vote ourselves out of this mess since day one
problem is it doesn’t work
It didn’t work before, it doesn’t work now and won’t work in the future
majority American didn’t want war or unlimited immigration, but government did it anyway
majority American didn’t want to live with ethnically alien, but scotus decisions said you have too
the birth of suburbia was white people’s basic instinct to secure their existence
boy scout bankruptcy should accept as Delphi oracle
if every institution are corrupted, we should dismantling every institution
Oh please, majority white America voted for Clinton and Jorge Arbusto. White America still votes for Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib(sp?).
“majority white America voted for Clinton and Jorge Arbusto”
62% white vote for Bush-Perot meanwhile Clinton only get 39% white vote at 1992 election
you didn’t bother to check out statics
” White America still votes for Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib”
again you didn’t bother to check out where districts at
you might claim that Brexit and recent Tory victory was “economic” reason
something like there’s no ethnic motivation among British people and people actually like living with ethnically alien people
you named ID as cursing, it shows that you have no class at all
Just like your argument is thin air and has no class
And your commenters are pretty astute too.
ZMan, and I say this without exaggeration, I have read political/historical commentary for fifty years, and the last time I read anything this incisive in so few words would have been in Gibbon or A.J.P. Taylor or those of similar stature. I look forward to your book.
“The question that has vexed the genuine Right is why this seems to be a phenomenon of the Right and not the Left. There are no examples of left-wingers going to Washington and becoming moderates.”
This is not surprising. The divide is not Left/Right; it is centralization/subsidiarity. Anyone who spends time in the Imperial Capital, i.e., the center of power, wants to exercise that power. Leftism is the contemporary way to exercise central authority. That will make right-wingers drift left but not the other way around.
Those dastardly puritans always ensuring the political battle is between two free market Zionists!
Marxism behaves and spreads in exactly the same way as a virus or a parasite like Malaria, via a vector. It would appear that societal and personal immunity to the Marxism (mind) virus, isn’t possible as it changes its appearance (rhetoric) after every failure. So societys’ immune-system is always playing catch-up. It may be that the most effective way to resist Marxism, is to treat it in the same way you stop a Malaria outbreak.
Sociological immune system is a concept I have been thinking about. Scandi’s have historically been pretty sheltered from diversity sitting up the edge of the Eurasian landmass. Eastern Europeans lived under communist occupation which challenged their SIS’s.
Zman wrote,”What English speaking countries need is a conservatism that will transform the state into something that will strengthen and support traditional institutions.”
I do not believe the state – ANY STATE – can do that. I do not believe that the nature of government is such that a state can actually “strengthen and support traditional institutions.” That is why decades past I became a minarchist. To me it’s not about “big” government OR “small” government but LIMITED government. What’s the saying? “That government is best which governs least”. I actually believe limited government was the goal those guys sweating in that hall in Philadelphia that summer had in mind and Article 1, Section 8 was the result. Then some asshat lawyer decided that the stated purposes/justifications for “lay[ing] and collect[ing] Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises” were powers in and of themselves. No other clause in A1, S8 gives Congress multiple powers. The federal government was intended to be limited. A return to a strict reading or Article 1, Section 8 would go a long way towards fixing current government problems. I also realize that turning from a “nanny state” towards a “night watchman state” is an impossibility at this late date. In computer terms, it’s too late for a simple ++
to fix things. The only way to get the job now it to wipe the hard drive and reload the operating system from scratch. It’s a stone bitch to do on a computer. On a national scale it will most certainly involve bloodshed and years of bitter, bitter travail.The idea of limited government has its merits but the history of the civilized world demonstrates that the idea only appeals to a small fraction of white men and no one else. Just like libertarianism.
Fighting for limited government is fighting against the revealed preferences of most people. The reluctant and realistic alternative is that we must take state power or be subjugated.
Someone will always have the whip hand. It should be us.
Why do pols shift left when they go to Washington? 3 reasons.
1. Money. Lots more lobbyists funding left wing causes, especially immigration.
2. Status. Liberals are held in higher esteem, because most of the people doing that esteeming are liberals. Pro immigration advocates are seen as nicer, kinder, and more open hearted. It’s Saturday night and you didn’t get an invitation to that big cocktail party where all the beautiful people are sure to be?
3. Votes.
Great essay. ‘Identity’ is one of the sticks in the ‘bundle of sticks’.
Westphalian Anglo-Roman civilization was supplanted in the 20th century.
Is it possible to return the favor?
Our flag and religion would be– make Europa great again, or, bring her back.
From oppressed to ascendant.
Sidebar- I call what we have Kapitalism, as opposed to capitalism. The conservatives railing about “socialism” are preserving another Leftist religious trope, because there is no Communist menace anymore.
If Trump wins, GOP wins the house, and then I think it will be very hard for the powers to be to not bring a 1924 like moratorium, especially as the virus and economic slowdown become the story for rest of the year. Once a 1924 like moratorium is passed, I could not care less what GOP becomes, if anything I might look at Democrats more favorably to fix issues like out of control drug and defense spending.
The problem with democracy is that it becomes a vehicle for cranks of all kinds to use to get to their destination before it’s jettisoned. For instance, when Egypt had a glimmer of fleeting “democracy” they elected the Muslim Brotherhood, which was in the process of turning Egypt into a democracy-in-name-only caliphate before the Egyptian army made a miraculous come-back, and in a very anti-democratic purge, put everything back in the box (thanks Obama, you almost unleashed the beast there). Venezuela legitimately elected Hugo Chavez, whose revolution precluded any future real democracy. California is a one party state and will be from here on out. Only Federal lawsuits mitigate the damage…for now. Democracy is a lie because human nature itself is fallen, vindictive, greedy and full of avarice. Human nature is not naturally good. It should always be questioned. Democracy is a chimera that ends in bankruptcy and violent revolution as bribed politicians throw meat to the masses. The greatest lie of our time was told by Reagan over and over again, that if you give the people all the facts, they’ll make the right decision. No…they…wont. Everyone has his or her own agenda, hidden or otherwise, that precludes all truth and facts.
JR Wirth said: “The problem with democracy is that it becomes a vehicle for cranks of all kinds to use to get to their destination before it’s jettisoned.”
Here’s a quote from Walter Lippmann I always liked.
“Unless democracy is to commit suicide by consenting to its own destruction, it will have to find some formidable answer to those who come to it saying: I demand from you in the name of your principles the rights which I shall deny to you later in the name of my principles.”
Well said sir, can’t be said enough. To the muh democracy pearl clutchers, I say Singapore is not a democracy and Kenya is one. Both were dirt poor and very backward in 1960. Guess which one progressed to first world status?
Z Man said “America has always been a radical bourgeois project. After the Civil War, that radicalism became the default of the political class and remains so today. This reformist impulse is the distinguishing feature of the American empire.”
In large part you can thank the Puritan proto-leftists for that mess.
Here’s an article from a site called “THRONE, ALTAR, LIBERTY ” entitled : ” Gnostics, Puritans, and the Left.” https://thronealtarliberty.blogspot.com/2019/08/gnostics-puritans-and-left.html
Except . . . that history teaches that sometimes the collapse of the prevailing orthodoxy leads to tyranny, mass detention, and genocide. And you don’t want to be in the street speechifying when the jackboots start rounding up the untermenchen for deportation to the extermination camps. Best have a Plan B ready if the jaw-jaw doesn’t work.
This is de Toqueville-level genius, Zman.
Certainly the finest meditation on American religion yet.
Magnifica! Please, keep going.
Conservatism is the pawl on the ratchet of the Left’sTotalitarian Come-Along
Nothing is less dangerous to a corrupt system than an opposition hobbled by the baggage of patriotism, process and rule of law. Sound familiar?
To the extent the problems with a system are structural, process and rule of law can’t even address them, much less fix them.
The U.S. Constitution has express provisions for amendment and reform from the grassroots level. There has been a grassroots level consensus on both the Right and Left for decades that the system needs radical reform in either our direction or theirs.
The one thing no one outside the inside wants is the status quo. But it’s the only brand on sale in our marketplace of ideas.
The history of the last 150 years gives both the legitimate Right and Left in America no reason to believe that their agendas will ever be achieved under the Constitution. Leftists who want populist economics and a strong safety net get the Wokeness bait-and-switch and the Righties that want social conservatism are offered only Randonomics and MAGA-trannies. The only group advancing its agenda are the uniparty neoliberal elites.
America is long overdue for a realignment from Red-Blue kosher sandwich politics but for now we’re still hobbled with the priors of sportsball politics. The third way out of this binary lose-lose scenario requires rejecting process and embracing revolution and radicalism. It means rejecting Imperial patriotism and civ-nattery and rooting for our own people instead. It means rejecting old alliances and seeking new allies with convergent interests.
Conservatism is by definition the wrong approach in these circumstances because radical changes are required.
I was surprised that Z used the word “conservatism” as the goal of our struggle.
Although I was proud to call myself a conservative for many years, the word now evokes in me shame, embarrassment, and mild revulsion.
“The one thing no one outside the inside wants is the status quo. But it’s the only brand on sale in our marketplace of ideas.” Annnnd mic drop.
Seems to me you’re over-thinking this. One of the idiots elected to Congress in 2018 surprisingly had it right when she said, “It’s all about the Benjamins”.
Whether or not some pol who says good things to get elected actually meant what he said, it doesn’t take long before the need to be reelected overrides all other considerations. The billionaire bankers (BBs) and their friends have more than enough money to decide who gets elected, and if the guy we thought would work on our behalf doesn’t quickly start working on behalf of the BBs, the BBs will find somebody who will. Those of us who can afford to donate $50 to a good guy can’t compete with the BBs who can spend hundreds of thousands to elect some creep. And when the BBs can call upon the entire corporate media to trash any good guy, the election result is a given.
But what motivates the BBs? Clearly not profits, after a certain amount of wealth is achieved.
If maximizing profits was the goal, we would have movies like Mel Gibson’s Christ and the first Star Wars, not the new “woke” Star Wars movies.
It’s not “all about the Benjamins.” It’s about the overthrowing of traditional white cultures.
It’s the Benjamins that cause our elected officials to betray us. The BBs are probably motivated by a lust for power, but I can’t know that, it’s just a guess.
Growing up there was a boy living next door who was about my age. He was a strange kid. He spent just about every sunny day in summer out in the back yard with a magnifying glass, torching ants, and laughing maniacally each time an ant went up in smoke.
I imaging our BB overlords doing the same as young men march off to war to make the world safe for the BBs.
The BB’s literally control the manufacture of our fiat currency. They will NEVER be outspent while they retain possession of that control node of our civilization. Trump did prove that having more money doesn’t mean they can’t be beat.
The Pubs always cave because, as Z and others have noted many times, Establishment “Conservatives” have the same core beliefs as the Left: They are committed to Civil Nationalism, anti “Racism” and Equality. They prize outward civility and most would die rather than make a scene, or engage in a personal confrontation..
Same religion, they have already converged.
The Repubs are the Judean Peoples Front.
Does that make Trump ‘Biggus Dickus’?
I think we see this from conservative politicians is simply because the Left more accurately represents the Open Society, which both left and right claim to support. Even the conservative thinker types have argued that the true American impulse is the Open Society – Hillsdale, U. of Chicago great book types, Victor Davis Hanson, all the rest of them.
BTP, in a nutshell! That’s the essence of ‘muh kapitalism’, of ‘other people’s money’, and foreign direct investment by sovereign wealth funds.
As Joseph Sobran pointed out the Constitution was crafted not to promote democracy but to check it, yet here we are attempting to reform government through democracy. This is a sample of what better minds think about our odd circumstances–
Ambrose Bierce–Conservative, n.: A statesmen who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the liberal, who wants to replace them with others.
Tocqueville–The habit of inattention has to be regarded as the greatest defect of a democratic society.
Burke–It is very rare for men to be wrong in their feelings concerning public misconduct; as rare to be right in their speculations upon the cause of it.
Pascal–Man’s sensitivity to little things and insensitivity to the greatest are the signs of a strange disorder.
Nietzsche–At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid.
Orwell–In a permanent and personal opposition the quality of thought deteriorates accordingly.
Fisher Ames–All political parties die at last by swallowing their own lies.
J A Froude–The silent men do the work. The talking men cry out at what is done because it is not done as they would have had it and afterward take possession as their own.
Tocqueville–The spectacle now exhibited by England, in which a party finds no difficulty in maintaining itself in power by carrying into practice ideas which it has always opposed, and by relying for support on its natural enemies, is not of a nature to raise the reputation of your institutions, or of your public men.
Disraeli–A conservative government is an organized hypocrisy.
Mencius Moldbug–A conservative is someone who helps disguise the true nature of a democratic state. The conservative is ineffective because his goal is to make democracy work properly. The fact that is does not work properly sails right over his head. He therefore labors cheerfully as a tool for his enemies.
Ernest Benn–Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies.
Carlyle–Nothing is more terrible than activity without insight.
Chesterton–The real argument against aristocracy is that it always means the rule of the ignorant. For the most dangerous of all forms of ignorance is ignorance of work.
Chesterton–All conservatism is based upon the idea that if you leave things alone you leave them as they are. But you do not. If you leave a thing alone you leave it to a torrent of change.
Paul Valery–Politics is the art of preventing people from sticking their noses in things that are properly their business.
“If you leave a thing alone you leave it to a torrent of change.”
You either social engineer or you get social engineered. The hands-off stupidity (my bow tie is too straight to fight the culture war!) was an abdication of responsibility for stewardship of civilization. Only an idiot not only lets his enemies educate his children, but pays them to do it.
This is a very thought-provoking post by Zman, particularly his observations that “What English speaking countries need is a conservatism that will transform the state into something that will strengthen and support traditional institutions,” and “That something new is the defense of traditional order, organic institutions and the popular will expressed through natural identity.” A possible hint of an emerging “something new” is what Putin is doing in Russia and Orban is doing in Hungary: Each is boosting and strengthening traditional institutions including their respective historical churches and normal families with children. On the flip side they are eliminating the power of super-rich oligarchs, which also helps to advance “something new.”
Jim, good point. That both Putin and Orban appear to scare the bejeezus out of the powers-that-be, is a bonus, and is also evidence that the two of them are on to something.
“What English speaking countries need is a conservatism that will transform the state into something that will strengthen and support traditional institutions.”
We have a word for that idea. It starts with an “f” and it was invented in first half of the 20th century.
One of the many tragedies of Trump turning out to be a scummy neocon masquerading as a populist is there was a real potential to move the Overton Window.
Julius Evola said that the regular people are like “sacks of potatoes” who will basically go along with anything. Sad but probably true.
Or in contemporary terms, the MAGAtards seem to support Trump on a sports-fan basis. They support “their team” no matter what–despite the fact that he didn’t do anything he promised to do, and in fact did a lot of bad stuff besides.
(Following the MAGAtard mommies on Twitter is the most depressing thing in the world.)
A real populist could have carried his potatoes/sportsfans deep into nationalist territory. Fuck Trump, man. What a con.
Don’t be foolish Babe. Unless you’re a troll, in which case you’re doing your job. Trump is a necessary way-station, and a super-important one at that.
LOL. The one funny and useful thing Trump did was to get the left-wing haters and lunatics to rip their masks off and fling them high in the air.
The funny part is that Trump’s policies are no different from an ordinary sellout conservative, but the leftists still look at him and see Hitlermussolini.
The political psychology of our current moment is absolutely amazing.
And of course some of his election rhetoric was outside the Overton Window (that’s why the left hates him: they aim to put the “total” in totalitarian, not the slightest deviation allowed).
But that’s what surprises me: the MAGAtards aren’t calling him out on not fulfilling any of those promises. They don’t remember? Don’t care? I mean, the fucking wall, who forgets that?
It’s the lesser of two evils for them now. Again this is because the system is set up to disallow white organization. You can’t start a white “La Raza” or a white community organization. We are in shit spot and it’s painful to think about how badly we have been fucked. The masses (all masses, always) are weak without a unifying force, they were desperate for an uncle adolf or napolean to come lead the way and save them. Trump presented himself as a crude rendering of that leader and we desperately flocked to him.
What I take heart in is that despite his statements about forcibly removing tens of millions of invaders and the media demonstrations of his horrible anti-liberalness whites voted for him, even the women, despite the sexism attacks and the pussy grabbing tape, because he presented himself as our white champion who would return us to the more idyllic past “great again”. If the real deal ever arises, the majority of our people will flock to him again. The system prevents the real deal from gaining that much power as things stand but history has ways of subverting the expectations of the ruling class sometimes. Anything that weakens the current order is a boon for us at this stage. The french aristocracy was undone by famine and decadence, wiemar germany fell in the same way. We have a decadent elite, but no famine or economic catastrophe to complete the catalyst for change. Not yet.
Elegant. Fash, we await our Napolean, our Hit…, er, our Bad Man.
Aha, that ancient theme! Some await a Saviour. A Cyrus, perhaps.
Joseph Campbell was right, there need only be a few stories. The Zman could consider and use those few universal themes as a focal point.
So Bloomie troll Babe,
1) Him saying both sides are at fault in C’ville
2) Him asking the squad to GTFO to their shitholes
3) Travel ban, the border wall, the public charge rule
4) Reduction of regulations
is not keeping promises? Bloomberg must pay you guys well, but try harder man.
Babe, the unfunny thing is that he defuses the passions of the right, keeps them from coming to a boil. Some, many, would like to delay the turmoil.
For us, though, it only buys time for the enemy. This is a hudna, a false truce so one side can re-arm.
Babe/John – we don’t have the insider info to resolve the question of “con man or victim of the system” re: Trump. We likely never will. We can only judge these guys on what they do for us or fail to in light of their promises and professed agenda.
Trump’s historical niche is largely a matter of uninformed speculation at this point and we can’t make a definitive case either-or. Hopefully we won’t waste too much time and energy fighting each other over whatever happens in Kabuki Theater 2020. Things are going to remain tough for Our Guys no matter who wins at this point.
We had nothing else. Nothing.
Now what do we have?
My gods, look at this slate of candidates.
What one predictor said in 2016 came true- the elites have decided to back Trump, I’m afraid. Ya know, I think they back any of these nutjobs, yet I still agree that he’s a necessary way-station, a first step.
The reason the GOP will revert back to its old ways is because a lot of intelligent white men have convinced themselves, by way of simplistic slogans (e.g. “Demographics is destiny” and “We can’t vote our way out of this”), that the best way forward is to allow this to happen without lifting a finger.
To hell with conservatism. We don’t need to be thinking about Isms right now. We do not need to have this all thought out. And this notion of razing everything to the ground in order to rebuild on the ruins is romantic nonsense fit for propaganda and little else.
A political party is for gaining, holding and wielding power. A serviceable party exists, one that has the added benefit of being already filled with decent white people.
We talk about the stupidity, cowardice and corruption of the men who represent this party. So they should be pushovers. Yet we have convinced ourselves that actually confronting and trying to remove these puppets in order to install our own is somehow not worth the candle. It is unclear to me how we can expect to forge a completely new order if we cannot manage to subvert the Kootenai County Republican Party.
As I see t this failure to seize – or even fight for – control of the Republican party apparatus will be a monumental failure of judgement, imagination and will. But at least that way no one will have gotten their hands dirty or allowed themselves to become intellectually compromised by reality.
Vegetius – I have no personal experience but a close friend has a friend who tried to mount a local political challenge to one of Conservatism Inc.’s entrenched hacks. It was an abysmal failure – due to the endemic corruption of the people and institutions and the incredible need for absurd amounts of $$$. Muh capitalism has let the oligarchs reach the heights and they control every lever.
+1 on “muh kapitalism.” Hoo boy.
Marx was right on that point. The Owner class will stop reinvesting in the society, and invest instead in lowest cost, low risk dodginess.
(That “warning”, I think, became an operating manual, as did ‘The Prince’ or ‘1984’.)
Money reflects the energy available to a society. When it was limited to muscle power, human and animal, things went more slowly. Then came coal steam, then petro, then electrical- we are well off to the races.
(Tldr- when you can print whatever you need and get paid for it, you end up buying everything.)
Veg, as 3g says, we don’t have the resources to play electoral politics the traditional way. We’re limited to down-ballot niches, systemic blind spots and voting for accelerating collapse rather than seizing the ramparts.
That said, I’m all for people trying to leverage the system for everything they can.
I’m not going to call them quitters or blame them for why we haven’t “won” yet. I’d appreciate the same courtesy toward those of us who aren’t sold on electoral politics as the One Weird Trick to win with. You’re beating up a straw man with your depiction of those of us who see separation as a constructive tactic in a multi-front strategy.
How are we supposed to “not allow” Clown World to happen unless and until we have a functional majority of people who support enough of Our agenda to matter? Where are we going to live and work while we put that coalition together?
There’s no reason not to work on this problem from both ends. As we’ve said before, bringing our people together in separatist communities serves the electoral politics approach well by concentrating our votes.
We’re not talking about leaving society entirely behind. It’s neither possible or necessary. We’re rallying and retrenching, not retreating.
It’s pretty simple. The left are the crazy, they cannot be co-opted easily.
The so-called “conservatives” are the greedy. They have a price and sold out the country for filthy lucre. Saying we need a “new” conservatism is an error IMO. We need a new LOYALTY – HONOR – MONOGAMY – combine them into LOYALHONORGAMY.
So caled “conservatives” are back stabbers that sold our children into debt slavery. Our brothers into hopelessness and thus opiod dependence. Made our daughters into sluts. Ripped untold human beings from their mothers’ wombs, vivisected them and sold their bodies for parts like a chop shop does a stolen car.
A new “conservatism”? Hell no.
Hell no. Damn them all to hell.
LOL, there’s Zman passing out pamphlets on the street corner again.
Well, I reckon we don’t have much to lose now. I, for one, am ready to roll the dice. ¡Viva la Revolución!
>> What English speaking countries need is a conservatism that will transform the state into something that will strengthen and support traditional institutions. <<
There was once a man who tried this in a non-English speaking country….
I’ve been saying that post-Trump the Repubs will return to being the party of Romney. Pretty much the same thing.
Not. Necessarily. The script is yet unwritten. (And fuck Romney.)
Well said!
“A genuine conservatism can be intellectually conceived, but the traditions that it should rest upon have been eliminated, so it will require a dismantling of current institutions and the building of new ones, loosely based on the traditions of the West.” And THAT, Mr. Zman, calls for an entire book to be written. By you. Well done.
Agree, well done.
Correct me if I’m simply putting my own desires into today’s “lesson”, but it seems the situation described above has only one real possibility of solution—authoritarian dictatorship—for an extended period of time. Whether this dictatorship is Left or (reformed) Right is unknown. But for the Right to prevail, it will come only from an individual or smallish group with one individual ostensibly the face of.
What I am reading is that Rightists are hopelessly divided by their individualistic roots to ever agree upon new, sustainable restructure of the currently poz’d institutions. This I’m beginning to agree with.
Only a small, empowered group, not the population at large, will ever be able handle such a task in an effective way and nurse those new institutions to maturity across a generation or two until they become the established norm. Heck, in a sense, that’s how our Founding Fathers handled the original establishment of this shitshow. They just didn’t follow through long enough due to assuming the system was self perpetuating *and* self repairing via the newly enfranchised population.
Of course, one of the first “institutions” requiring radical reform is “universal suffrage”.
Excellent summation, Compsci. Back when my son retained some libertarian leanings, he took great umbrage at the required authoritarianism I found appealing (and workably presented in Covington’s books, as I have mentioned before). Even in a homogeneous nation, there’s always the bottom 10% and the outliers. And a new generation of capable, self-confident White culture cannot be raised by those whose formative years were spent among miscegenation, deracination, and degradation. Democracy is one of those leftist principles that will have to be tossed if we hope to rebuild.
That’s why libertarians are in an impossible bind. How do you get a government powerful enough to defend individual freedom?
Our distrust comes from an awareness of human nature and the historical record.
As American power centalizes and grows more oppressive- its own collective, its own supertribe- we see it promoting hyper-radical individualism instead.
Compsci;
So Putinism, then_? We might well fit the Russian parallel after Bernie and the Commies take over. Just hope that it doesn’t take 80 years and ~50 mil. dead like it did for them.
The most deeply unpopular position on the right might just be that its BASE, not the RINO’s, has a loyalty problem. Conservative politicians sellout when they go to DC, to be sure, but the average civil service worker there in fact sells out harder compared to the rest of the country. Yes, the right’s politicians have more of a spine than the work force of the Swamp/Deep State.
If conservatives could move to DC and become government workers without going native, then their politicians would be better too, but they’re both cut from the same cloth. The politicians won’t even loudly complain about the Deep State or just *why* the local conditions in DC make humans into NPC leftists for some reason. But Trump did, and that’s what matters to us.
We need more anti-base politicians who get elected anyway through sheer strength of will and animal magnetism. In other words, this is what it looks like when the people want a Caesar, not a waffle maker.
“A genuine conservatism can be intellectually conceived, but the traditions that it should rest upon have been eliminated, so it will require a dismantling of current institutions and the building of new ones, loosely based on the traditions of the West.” Not likely, unless we have total and catastrophic collapse of the western culture.
Our traditions have not been eliminated, I see them all around me. But, the majority of these traditions have been subjugated, in the parts of the country that hold the largest voting blocs, to a creeping feminization. It started with women getting the vote and has rotted our society to the core. I hope this does not sound misogynistic, because I love women. But, they are not suited to make the hard decisions necessary for running a productive society.
As long as the highest ideal is to encourage the snowflakes and nurture the helpless at the expense of the productive, we will continue to decline. I fear for my children. The popularity of Bernie is the natural extension of that rot.
Zman said, “A genuine conservatism…will require a dismantling of current institutions and the building of new ones, loosely based on the traditions of the West.” Waiting4Storm responded, “Not likely, unless we have total and catastrophic collapse of the western culture.” How “unlikely” is a “total and catastrophic collapse of the western culture”? Historically it’s happened lots of times, to lots of cultures. (And your handle suggests you’re well aware of that.)
My secret is out… My alias comes from something I read once: There is a storm coming; and, it is starting to rain. Even if the collapse comes, and it may, can we put it all back together in a way that is true to the older traditions?
I ran across this quote some time ago:
And once the storm is over, you won’t remember how you made it through, how you managed to survive. You won’t even be sure, whether the storm is really over. But one thing is certain. When you come out of the storm, you won’t be the same person who walked in. That’s what this storm’s all about.
— Haruki Murakami
Like everything else in our society, the ‘social capital’ of our traditions has been strip-mined and transformed into transactions that middlemen can extract their pound of flesh from.
Even our *holidays* have been stolen from us.
Thanksgiving Day, a uniquely American holiday, is now a bump in the road on the way to the Black Friday Sale, which is needed so we can all buy a bunch of product sold by the folks who had their tables overturned by The Christ, the very person who’s birth we are supposed to be celebrating.
All of our national patriotic days are an excuse to move product. American Flag Daisy Dukes, bandanas, and more, for the MAGApede to consume, and tie-dyed ones for the Democratic Socialist, all produced by the same folks.
I’ve always have been entranced by the ‘Quiet Revolution’ in Quebec that happened in the 1960’s. It was like there were thousands of sleeper cells that stayed mostly quiet, and they all were activated like a school of fish and completely and ruthlessly transformed society nonviolently, and the people for the most part just shrugged their shoulders.
For all the entertainment of Trump’s bluster and being edgy online, the key is going to be finding rich benefactors that can hide in the shadows and fund such splinter cells that know when to ‘activate’ when blood is smelled in the water. We’ll need our own ‘quiet revolution’.
Trump tweeted support for some Indian homosexual movie. The global man is within both political orders in the west. Trump is like a 75 Mustang all pinstriped and mag wheels with a smog controlled 4 cylinder under the hood.
True conservatism will support our traditional culture and institutions that support our traditions, our people, families, and not some rainbow flag God or worldwide multicultural marketplace.
We are far from getting that yet in our leadership. We are stuck with Casino owners and communists at this point in time.
Conservatism is too much reactionary and not a true political ideology. Most conservatives could not even tell you where they think taxes should be or even what they should be spent on. The only thing they can tell you is that they are too high, no matter where they happen to be, and that they are spent irresponsibly. They cannot imagine using the state to impose “conservative values,” whatever they happen to be at the moment. It is impossible to break your principles when you don’t have any. Being opposed to the left is not a principle. Even things like “family values” are just empty slogans or empty posturing. If they actually believed in what is presumed to be meant by “family values,” everything would look different. All of the state bureaucracies would be geared towards imposing and incentivizing “family values” Virtually everything the state does is opposed to “family values.”
Political change is the ONLY option. The first thing that needs to be done is to define conservatism in a positive sense. Rather than “this is what we oppose,” we need to be defining “this is what we are for,” and “this is how we will get it”
Until this change is made, expect continued lurching to the left.
These are my principles. If you don’t like them I have others. – Groucho Marx
Ideology is not really tenable either though. It’s usually way down the
‘Biology > Culture > Institutions > Politics > Economics’ chain.
Double post
The Republican Party never stopped being the Bush Party.
The only difference between Trump and Jeb! is that the former fights back, whereas the later’s entire family considers letting themselves be slapped in the face to be a sign of their moral superiority.
Governing-wise, there is no difference whatsoever.
I completely disagree. If Jeb Bush were elected president, we would almost certainly be fighting a giant ME war and losing. Trump defeated ISIS by pulling the funding which allowed local powers to go in and mop them up. Trump has avoided every single one of their schemes to get a good ME war going. Trump has been great in this respect. Trump is very close to ending the war in Afghanistan. There was zero chance of this happening had Jed been elected.
While Trump LOVES to talk about how great minorities are doing, he really isn’t doing anything for them. Jeb Bush is truly infected with white guilt and the LOVE of Hispanics. Jeb Bush would have signed an amnesty by now.
Trump was not what we wanted, but he is NOT Jeb Bush.
Don’t forget the federal judiciary. Including the Supreme Court. What would Hillary have done? Who would Bush have put in?
Jim Smith: AMEN. What would we be facing with another Bush SCOTUS appointee: another deepstate buttbuddy like Roberts, or maybe another Souter? Ill take 4 years of tweets over that horror show. Still dont think the judiciary matters? Ask Roger Stone, he is personally learning the difference between a real judge and an Obama judge.
Tars, quite right. The problem is that the Jeb Bushes of the conservative side are simply waiting out Trump, so they can go back to the Mitt Romney style of collaborationism. Trump’s biggest failure, IMO, is not grooming any successor movement of any sort. Reagan failed in the same way, yielding to Bush one, the CIA deep-stater.
Trump was a first step in the right direction. Whether we take another step, I have my doubts.
Tars;
IMO, the very best reason to support Trump is that he will fully test the theory that American Civic Nationalism can still work as a governing ideology despite the demographic transformation of the USA now under way. Am Civ Nationalism is the overarching rhetorical theme of all of the Trump rallies.
Many here believe that it cannot work any more, and they may be right. But I believe it deserves a fair chance from all of us, given how bloody the alternatives are likely to be. Sort of a secular ‘Pascal’s Wager’. If Trumpism works, then the International Socialists (aka Commies, aka globalist elite Soros disciples) are set back a for generation and no Civil War II. If it fails, then we know for sure that Am Civ Nat-ism is well and truly over. And we are no worse off for having tried. (And we will assuredly all be far worse off for the end of Am Civ Nat’ism.)
I get some people’s revival of Lenin’s ‘The worse the better’ theory, given their justified disgust with current day USA. But, it took ~50 mil dead and 80 years to get from Lenin to Putin (who seems to be some folks beau ideal of a solution).
All I want is one example of Trump “fighting” that was/is not a fraud. Spare the “Travel Ban” and “MPP” frauds, because they’ve already been discounted as theater for the faithful.
No amnesty such as the Gang of 8 bill, has passed under Trump. If Clinton had won it would have passed in months. Sean Hannity would have been singing it’s praise less than three days after the election just as he did in November of 2012.
How much does Bernie/Bloomie pay you to troll? Trump just implemented the public charge rule which will result in further cuts to legal immigration. Legal immigration needs to be cut from 1.1M to around 400K and that can be done IIRC if the current laws are implemented strictly which is what Trump is doing.
Robert Lewis Dabny:
It may be inferred again that the present movement for women’s rights will certainly prevail from the history of its only opponent: Northern conservatism. This is a party which never conserves anything. Its history has been that it demurs to each aggression of the progressive party, and aims to save its credit by a respectable amount of growling, but always acquiesces at last in the innovation. What was the resisted novelty of yesterday is today one of the accepted principles of conservatism; it is now conservative only in affecting to resist the next innovation, which will tomorrow be forced upon its timidity and will be succeeded by some third revolution; to be denounced and then adopted in its turn. American conservatism is merely the shadow that follows Radicalism as it moves forward towards perdition. It remains behind it, but never retards it, and always advances near its leader. . . . Its impotency is not hard, indeed, to explain. It is worthless because it is the conservatism of expediency only, and not of sturdy principle. It intends to risk nothing serious for the sake of the truth, and has no idea of being guilty of the folly of martyrdom. It always when about to enter a protest very blandly informs the wild beast whose path it essays to stop, that its bark is worse than its bite, and that it only means to save its manners by enacting its decent role of resistance: The only practical purpose which it now serves in American politics is to give enough exercise to Radicalism to keep it in wind, and to prevent its becoming pursy and lazy, from having nothing to whip. No doubt, after a few years, when women’s suffrage shall have become an accomplished fact, conservatism will tacitly admit it into its creed, and thenceforward plume itself upon its wise firmness in opposing with similar weapons the extreme of baby suffrage; and when that too shall have been won, it will be heard declaring that the integrity of the American Constitution requires at least the refusal of suffrage to asses. There it will assume, with great dignity, its final position.
1897
https://www.counter-currents.com/2012/11/robert-lewis-dabney-on-conservatism/
“The Left seeks to use the state to reorganize society according to their current fads, so the Right opposes the state as a legitimate entity.”
That was the intellectual fad of the late 18th century, The Enlightenment.
I hope for a white advocacy politician or coalition to emerge. Something that disaffected red-pilled whites can coalesce around. Much as i hate to contemplate it, we need a Jesse Jackson-like figure. Nehland and P. Little were crushed but i gotta think that someone will breakthrough as the whites lose the majority. To Zmans point, the advocates job will be of disruptor and to constantly rail against our status quo.
“To Zmans point, the advocates job will be of disruptor and to constantly rail against our status quo.” You kidding? Is Trump not a first-step “disrupter-in-chief”?
Smith, I agree, because Trump is doing Bernie’s job for him.
If we’re going to be America and not the United States, the answer is to establish the nation. Not the country or the state (ideas). One people will do what suits their interest. As long as they aren’t self-hating 🙂
These days when I re-read A Tale of Two Cities I admire Madame Defarge more and more.
I wonder how the Puritans would’ve felt to realize they were doing Satan’s work.
No wonder they freaked out about witches. Deep down they knew what they were up to.
Many thousands more “witches” were put to death by the Holy Roman Empire and the Inquisition than that small colony ever imagined(~20?). “Deep down they knew what they were up to.”
Many ‘witches’ died in the Civil War. In no small part to ‘purify’ American society.
Think of Dartmouth grad Thaddeus Stevens. A guy who frowned for his official portrait. Or John Brown.
I’m sorry Painter, I’m missing your point. Are you saying either TS or JB were witches? Or are you saying you don’t like what happened during the Civil War and its aftermath? Nor do I. With usual 20-20 historical hindsight, it should never have happened.
JB was a descendent of puritans. TS was educated in a New England congregationalist college, so presumably influenced by puritans. Certainly had that edge.
One pushed revolution, the other Reconstruction. Both were radical abolitionists willing to do terrible things for their cause. It wouldn’t have been as tragic without them and those of like mind.
And of course no other ideology ever espoused doing
“terrible things for their cause.” FFS, man, If I had the time, I could post all day, every day, for months on end about “mans’ inhumanity to man” going back to Viking days in Europe and far beyond.
Sure but I’m talking about Puritans specifically. They had a profound influence on this country. It’s not that they didn’t have their hits. The revolution was great— probably. New England started that. Town hall democracy is great. The work ethic is great. The industrial revolution was good for a while.
I’m talking about the excesses of the uncompromising puritan ethic— where it gets punishingly utopian. Maybe I’m being a little reductive, but I can’t help hearing the echo of those witch hunts in Reconstruction or even today’s progressivism. Destroy the badthinker. Extirpate the evil in our midst. And while I’m not an historian, I suspect progressives are the intellectual descendants of the puritans. I suspect the excesses of the witch hunts made them fall away from religion towards an aggressive secular humanism. I suspect this because of the aggressive, punishing, uncompromising attitude puritans are still known for. They made that contribution to America long before jacobins or marxists existed. They really left an impression.
Satan’s work— strong language, yes, but we’re talking about strong things here. Reconstruction is a still a suppurating wound to a lot of people. Drag queen story time is a thing. It’s a lot of carnage chasing down utopia.
Please don’t destroy me!
🙂
The stealthy destruction of our institutions will have to accelerate before the numbskulls of my generation will notice anything. My fear has always been that I’ll be too old to do a damn thing when TSHTF.
Train like Jack LaLane. Be able to kick ass into your 90’s.
The point has been made here often enough. As long as the “right” in the West shares the same principles as the left, we will always lose to them.
This was one of the most radical posts I can recall seeing here. The logic of ‘order through chaos’ reminds me a lot of Marxism and, for once, I don’t mean ‘Marxism’ derogatorily here. There is a voice in the back of my head that says that conservatism cannot be forged as an ideological project, unlike actual ideologies. I think it should somehow grow organically. And that may be a form of individualism itself, the thinking that it cannot be ‘indoctrinated’. On the other hand, we might not have time for it to grow ‘organically’ b/c tick tock, the demographic clock is ticking fast now. Maybe some sort of top-down erzatz conservatism is the best that could realistically be tried? But even that, if you’re right, would have to depend on the current order collapsing and not taking too long about that, before demographics sends us to wherever dodos hang out these days.
I suspect Argentina was just a trial run.
None of this will happen without a seismic change in our society and unfortunately that is unlikely to happen peacefully.
Nor is it likely to be put off much longer. We’ve already entered a Fourth Turning, and as Strauss and Howe pointed out we don’t know out it’s going to turn out. We never do.
It begins…
Dow down 1000 points, coronovirus spreads globally.
Deus Ex Wuhana
Sperg, someday they’ll write of corona-chan as the Judgement of God’s wrath.
Wait, the Black Plague broke the claim to sole authority by the Church, since it was powerless.
With Corona exposing the faults of the One World system, will it also break the legitimacy of the One World Church?
The change is happening gradually via mass immigration. I’ve been looking at the stats of Trump’s first two years in office (’19 data isn’t out yet) vs. Obama’s and in every category but one (refugees) the numbers are way, way up. 2.2M green cards issued; 1.5M naturalizations; 2.4M “temporary” work visas/year; and the OPT program (50K & 60K under Obama) is now over 200K/year. Those are just some of the “legals.” And people still think he “fights.” Trump has become just as much of a cult figure as Obama was.
If something destroyed all the televisions in America this country would change overnight. We live in WALL-E land. 75% of people are overweight, 40% medically obese. 80% too dumb, lazy, or incurious to verify anything for themselves, preferring instead to be spoon fed their information like children. Soft men produce hard times though, and we are well overdue for some.
I’m not sure that’s true anymore. The oldest among us didn’t grow up with TV so their viewing is limited (apparently to “Wheel of Fortune.”) The young people torrent or stream. TV/Cable expansion was a GenX thing that slopped over a little bit to both boomers and millenials. As for obesity, it has increased, it should be discouraged, but I don’t trust the government to combat it.
900K deportations under Clinton.
2 M under Bush.
3 M under Obama.
285,000 under Trump.
Not only that, but in the Tuscon sector border crossings have more than doubled since *LAST YEAR* https://twitter.com/USBPChiefTCA/status/1227771075083194368
In the real world…
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/columnists/story/2020-01-01/column-like-them-or-not-trump-policies-are-reducing-immigration
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/24/us/politics/trump-border-legal-immigration.html
Hey, but OrangeManBad. Maybe the alt-right/DR or whatever you call yourselves can join the Democrat Party. You malcontents will fit in well over there.
Interesting. I got my stats from the CBP and DHS. Here https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statistics# and here https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration. Perhaps they meant “reduced” from FY19 highs to FY20 (Obama-era) levels.
Trump has cut *legal* immigration by 11% and more cuts are coming thanks to the public charge rule. Like I said. the alt-right/DR is the right wing crazy cat ladies club, all whining but can offer no solution or vision other than bugaloo and RAHOWA fantasies. I can 1M doillars, if and when there is a bugaloo, the DR types will be the last ones to fight.
2030:
https://www.unique-canvas.com/media/kunstdrucke-poster/hieronymus-bosch-die-hoellenfahrt-911108.jpg
Then maybe…
I’m not exactly sure about this but I think a Sanders win may actually be of greater benefit to us long term. If the left sees their popular champion stymied at ever turn and none of his wealth re distributive promises ever get fulfilled the elites might find themselves facing a growing discontent and potential rebellion on two fronts.
But then again I’m just speculating. Maybe they would just print mounds of fiat money to release the pressure from the left, give an amnesty to student loan debt, etc. but he’s certainly not going to be able to raise taxes on the rich very much. He may do the Obama thing and surreptitiously raise payroll taxes on the middle class in addition to a modest increase on the top bracket, but that really just hurts the middle class and slightly hurts the petty bourgeois. Don’t know enough about economics or how amenable the Fed woud be to this to say with any degree of certainty whether he could forgive over 1 trillion in student loan debt though.
I’m completely done with Trump as anything other than a meme. He still is the avatar for whiteness in the popular consciousness but that’s only true as a residual effect of his campaign strategy. The way he governs has revealed his character, his words mean nothing, his actions reveal the man. Releasing millions of criminals was the penultimate last straw of many last straws.
The rose colored glasses optimist in me thinks “Hey he is just doing that to shove some IRL in your face taste of race realism into these media indoctrinated sheeps’ false reality by facilitating a face to face interaction with Tyrone rather than the magic negro on TV” but this guy was using us from the start.
We were desperate enough to believe his sweet lies about removing brown stains and whitening the country but that facade has long since fallen. We were desperate enough to hope that a reality TV star real estate developer cared about his kin. There is no just man left in Sodom or Gomorrah.
FG. Yours seems a reasonable summary of Trump’s history. Personally I’m taking Trump in sum of the good and the bad. I’m curious what your resolute declaration means for you tactically? I agree with the general consensus here that the valley ahead and road out is through destruction (active and passive). With that, my clan is planning ahead while riding along on the machine in place. What are you doing personally?
I’m largely isolated in the heart of brownness a.k.a. Gomorrah a.k.a. Los Angeles so I do what I can to lay some breadcrumbs for the few legacy americans left in this cesspit. The state of our people here is in the extremes. Either full on stockholm syndrome or very low key but extremely high power levels. To find out you are talking to you have to be tactful and coded in your language. Put out feeler statements that stockholm syndrome people won’t understand but our guys and gals will get. It’s pretty much a real life version of Dystopian Sci Fi, but not written by a liberal like Orwell but whoever his not allowed to become famous political analog was. It’s pretty bleak, can’t wait to get out. The women are particularly terrible here I think, I’ve done ok but only because I am handsome. Most of our guys I know that are stuck here for whatever reason give up and go Asian. It’s bad times. Definitely not a future I want for my progeny.
Talking in code to feel the other person out is exactly what they used to do in the Soviet Union.
Let me assure you there is hope so keep the chin up you handsome dog! I cannot encourage you enough to get out and find a place to land outside of the alien world that is CA. Further encouragement to find a great help-mate, make some handsome babies. And practice the baby making a lot (“enjoy the wife of your youth).
Seriously, I hope you are actively looking for a spot to relo. To paraphrase Lineman, go find your community.
My tactical support for Bernie is based largely in the fact that he’ll govern with complete incompetence.
Better the old commie who has never had a real job than a young, angry Stacy Abrams-type.
I’m more worried about his acolytes and minions. I can imagine someone like AOC getting real power and becoming truly bloodthirsty. Also, imagine some of those university scolds (the smart ones, not the useful idiots) having authority over normal people.
That might actually be a good thing though. Being directly and personally impacted by the rot will drive more people to our side than a million leaflets ever would. Better a bit of pain in the short term that might catalyze a reversal than a slow decline to the depths over decades.
MemeWarVet, Where you might be wrong is assuming that Bernie, not the oligarchy and deep state apparatchiks, would be doing the governing.
Lorenzo, exactly. People like Bernie (and Obama) are simply platforms by which these deep-staters can do their work unimpeded. People consistently get fooled by the magician’s trick of watching the quickly moving right hand, while the left hand quietly does the real work.
Correct me if I’m wrong, this sounds like millennial rage at being lied to by every authority figure. The bait and switch of being promised the world and given this mess. It’s something I can relate to.
I bet a lot of Bernie bros don’t actually believe in socialism. They just want to burn it all down— burn the lie down. Feel the Bern.
It’s the same sentiment that got me behind Trump. Not ready to take the accelerationist’s plunge, though.
Connecting the dots is not a strength of the leftist hivemind. And as long as Trump and any other racist non-believers are allowed to exercise their white privilege, Bernie will have cover for his inevitable failures.
The boogymen are already cast. Just look at the grievance-gibs axis that is the sciencey science of the the dems platform. Which is really just a gallows.
The problems are not some economists wet dream of a predictive model of taxation.
No, its whiteness, racism, sexism, “hate”, xenophobia, transphobia, etc. These don’t go way when the people get paid for their sadface or the last white male engineer is displaced from his job inspecting highway overpasses because diversity.
We are still talking about reparations for “slavery”. And when that gets awkward we change the subject to a living wage for flipping burgers. When someone does some raciss math about that, it changes again to bringing in moar wage-slaves to fill jobs that are made for children and retards. All with a straight face.
No, badwhites and the original sin of howard zinn history month will never go away. And thats the point. Even though we have the lowest black unemployment evah and the most 401k milkionaires evah!
They can’t go too hard on that stuff anymore though. Them going to hard on that is what got Trump elected and they know it. That’s why they prefer to attack the symbol of whiteness (Trump) rather than white people when they can. It helps keep the frog boiling in the pot for longer.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. (Jefferson)
Those antifa and alt righter dust ups don’t really measure up.
Of our current culture and the quality of it’s citizenry I don’t see much to build on.
Institutions are great and all but they have to have the quality of people who can build and support them.
Hopefully the future generations will be there for this but for now we should just enjoy our families and communities the best we can. Contribute what you, fight the small battles when you can but understand many years and much upheaval will have to occur before anything resembling a good just society will come.
We are infested with rot and not all of it is on the left.
Ironically, this means that the only way a genuine conservatism can emerge, and in the case of Britain, reemerge, is by overthrowing the current order.
For everything to stay the same, everything must change.
Brilliant and pithy, Felix. You point out why “conservatism” is now a misnomer, which masks the goals of our “movement,” from both present adherents and potential ones. “Traditionalist” doesn’t work either, and “Right” is as defunct as the Cold War.
Perhaps a more descriptive name would be one (small) way to bring clarity to our side, and rally those who are not with us yet? The old political coalitions have been *visibly* disaggregating for at least four years now, and more rapidly so in recent days. There would be an advantage to whoever lays claim to a vivid, positive name for his side in the new dispensation, and thereby forces the opposition into a reactive stance.
Brilliant and pithy, Felix.
Thanks, but the credit goes to Giuseppe di Lampedusa.
Even more to your credit—citation.
Thanks again – the movie is definitely recommended to all ourguys (and ourgals, of course); it is rather melancholic, but not only is it insanely beautiful, it features Burt Lancaster in one of his best roles as the Leopard, and the women look like this:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c7/a5/7b/c7a57b096b8388b3c39203df067df505.jpg
Rather than this:
https://cosmicbook.news/sites/default/files/styles/image_header/public/birds-prey-title-change-harley-quinn.jpg
I am watching it just now, in fact. Be advised it’s in Italian and French, so it’s subtitled.
The chick from 1st pic looks like she has some Harley in her as well.
The chick from 1st pic looks like she has some Harley in her as well.
Well spotted. She’s a real bitch, the Meghan Markle of Sicily.
An urbane, impeccably right wing friend recommended “Il Gatopardo” to me last year and now I have to get down to watching it. Thanks. I’m a fan of Lancaster already.
FYI, Trevor Lynch wrote about the film on Unz.
I should warn you that now I’ve watched it again, I was a bit disappointed. It is rather long and with some pretty confusing editing, but maybe that’s just my copy. There are several, very different edits out there. Still very beautiful, and Lancaster is a lion.
Also, a short refresher on the Risorgimento helped me a lot.
I like the name “The Liberal Party USA”. It will dive the leftists nuts! Just like they made conservative states “RED” to visually confuse the election.in 1984 and has remained so since. It is a visual trick to make the left appear non-commie red.
Besides, imagine how cool it would be to answer so smart-azzed leftist who accuses you of being a hated Republican or conservative to smugly retort; Screw you I’m a Liberal Party member”. Picture his expression.
They flip the world upside down in Hollywood, academia, Media and even sports why can’t we fuk with them just this once?
I think it was a Democrat Senator who said after Schumer was elected that the most dangerous place in Washington is between Chuck Schumer and TV camera. It has been pitiful to watch old has-beens like Harry Reid and James Carville think they can do something to stop Bernie Sanders. Did they really think they were going to rapidly drag the country left and it was going to suddenly stop right in the place where they had the most power?
They just thought they would ride the wave forever. Scar did not anticipate his hyenas turning on him either.
It does seem strange doesn’t it. The left democrats have been selling communism for decades and the party elders are frightened out of their minds by a candidate that is an actual communist.
The party elders are frightened out of their minds that the Communist will lose the election in a big way, and put their movement off course. If they thought he had a good chance to win, they would be banging the drums for him.
Good point Dutch.
Trump runs for “re-election” in 2024. One of his sons takes power afterwards in order to prevent the enemies of the Trump family from arresting the Trump family.
Supporters of Pres. Trump would love one of his kids to inherit the throne and Don Jr. seems to be the favorite. Unfortunately, there’s support for Ivanka and a meme featuring an Ivanka Trump/Candace Owen ticket. Ugh.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=meme+ivanka+trump+candace+owen&ia=images&iax=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fpics.me.me%2Ftrump-owens-2024-mg-just-to-make-liberal-heads-explode-48380835.png
Ivanka is a dingy liberal with a husband from a sleazy family. Their influence of Pres. Trump is negative.
Don Jr. is an incompetent dope. That is the bigger problem, there are very few men already established in the system who haven’t gone native already. Even if there was a good option, all the forces of the established system would align to crush him before he made to the White House. The party has mostly co-opted Trump anyway. How much will we even notice a change back to the previous status quo.
Back when I still retained some false hope that Trump would actually do some of what he promised, I thought Don Jr. was okay – at least per press reports which universally painted him as an evil hunter and outdoorsman. But he exchanged his wife and 5 kids for Gavin Newsome’s half-Puerto Rican ex and is little more than a mouthpiece for conservatism, inc. for Whites under 30. Talk of a Trump dynasty now just reinforces what fools the magatards are.
Don Jr. doesn’t strike me as being in the same league as his dad and I don’t like his girlfriend. I don’t know about Eric.
I think that the poop will really hit fan in 2024 and there will be blood.
“the Right opposes the state as a legitimate entity”, This reveals how black-pilled most actual conservatives have become. We are literally better off without most of our government institutions because we recognize how thoroughly the left has infiltrated and co-opted them.
Today’s Exhibit #1:: A State Department bureaucrat decided to ignore a direct and explicit order from the President. And instead of being fired, stripped of his pension, and prosecuted… nothing will happen to him even if this kills Americans.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/02/state-department-employee-in-japan-ignored-president-trumps-orders-and-allowed-americans-with-coronavirus-to-fly-back-to-the-us/
Impeding the free movement of a (probably)non-white into a white country would violate the prime directive, even if they are a race with an imperialist past (sticking to coherent principals is something losers do) of course this cannot be abided. Only whites can “colonize”, non-whites “immigrate”, “innovate” and “add to our wonderful tapestry of diverse human experience”. His motive was to disregard white interests, he may even be promoted.
Sidenote I do feel sympathy for the japs, we absolutely ruined them with our continuous occupation. I suspect their low birthrate and cultural malaise are a direct result of being a conquered people. A foreign feminist of the chosen tribe was responsible for a large portion of their constitution (still retained/imposed). The degeneration of every strong northern society is an undertaking that has a long and storied history and a particular group seem always to be heavily involved in it for some strange coincidence…
I think a lot of that comes from corporate interests who want to replace the state, at least initially. Regular people see it’s not working.
Hatred of Trump offers every dimwit state tit-sucker an opportunity to have their 15 minutes of “whistleblower” fame.
I find it incredibly creepy that Kalitta Air pilots are not allowed to talk about transporting a few sick civilians.
A no kidding, 1918 style global pandemic would shake things up in ways that are impossible to predict.
Same thing happened with Ebola. State is populated by D.C. cloud people who live in another world.
An atomized and dis-unified populace is much easier to control. Without collective bargaining we are just one of 300+ million, a.k.a. an ant under a boot. We don’t live a democracy, we live in a corrupt oligarchy. There is no political solution at this point. Not with the censorship that prevents any real attempt at popular collectivization. Europe might have a way to fix things without drastic measures. We in the USA are in a much different situation.
Dual megaparties too big to fail prevent any real possibility of reform. Not to mention the stranglehold the Brazil level wealth disparity here provides the elites in terms of media reach and narrative control.
I kinda agree w you that there probably isn’t a political solution to this.
About the situation in America vs in Europe, being in Europe I don’t think things are better here, possibly except for one thing. To be an American is partly understood by many to be an ideological construct. To be a Dane or a Frenchmen, people still instinctively know that that is an ethnic fact more or less.
Apart from that I think it is hard to say who’s worse off, Both ‘camps’ of dissidents, America or Europe, have advantages and disadvantages. America has the 1st amendment, a BIG advantage. Oth, doxxing, firing people, freezing their accounts or other services, is probably bigger in the US now. Also, US authorities are often rougher w sentences for ‘convenient’ charges like IRS audits finding something on ppl Obama didn’t like. Put differently US authorities are scarier to tangle with than European authorities, although stories like what Tommy Robinson went through (Kafka couldn’t have made that up) might be changing that.
Except as a political rallying point I don’t see that guns in the US have helped dissidents in any way. People are still hauled in on no knock arrests in the US. Civilian guns do not seem to restrain the authorities as far as I can tell (hang on to them though, maybe not to fight the state but for if the state collapses and goes AWOL in your area. Here I believe they would be really useful).
To be an American was only recently redefined to be an ideological construct. To be an American, for the bulk of our history used to mean be to be of European extract. Our immigration policy was extremely restrictive for most of American history. In 1965 that changed and the elites rewrote history. The same thing is happening to the UK, they probably drudged up the saxon and norse invasions and use them as justification or something stupid and flimsy like that. They probably already are. I can’t be bothered to look, it saddens me too much to see this happen to a kin group that has such deep ties to their land. I can’t see how Europe was tricked into allowing immigration at all. Probably in large part due to imbibing American media. The people who make American media are extremely adept at psychological manipulation. It is an extremely toxic product. And why I have more hope for a gentler European solution is that you actually have viable (although horribly repressed and censored) anti immigration parties.
Actually more likely they just guilt their people by reminding them constantly of their colonial past. The elites here do the same with slavery and the hall of caust, and how the government turned away a boatload of jews one time in 1938. Strangely they don’t use the Indians to guilt us much, probably because there aren’t that many Indians left so they can’t be viable janissaries for the ruling class. You better beleive we were forced to watch the “Amistad” slave ship movie and read Ellie Weasels “Night” to pass English and history class though.
Oh and the first amendment doesn’t mean squat if private companies aren’t subject to abiding by it. Trust me, neither Facebook, Twitter nor any other viable platform for organizing or awakening the masses will abide anything more than a very low level of wrongthink. You will be silenced if you step outside the lines. They hardban you too, not just your account and followers are lost, your device is banned too. I wasn’t even big, had less than 100 followers. You are not allowed in the public square if you get big enough or are too loud and aren’t approved by the powers that be.
It’s my guess that more Frenchmen than Americans personally, possibly secretly, agree that French is an ethnicity. For example, it doesn’t much raise an eye brow to say ‘the French/English/Danes can’t go to no go zones.’ This is still within Overton in Europe more or less. Try saying ‘An American can’t walk safely in Watts.’ Some would instantly call you a racist, others just wouldn’t understand what you meant. Outside dissident circles where do you find that in the US? Historically I agree w you.
Oh most would understand what you meant, even those who would call you a racist would understand what you meant. They just know they aren’t allowed to be honest about what they understand. We are also heavily encouraged to at least publicly judge that group by it’s standouts rather than it’s average. The secular religion that replaced Christianity here is anti-racism and it’s zealots are fervent in their denunciation of heresy.
The difference is in Overton I think. ‘White’ is still implied if you say ‘French’ or ‘Danish’. Inside American Overton it isn’t implied to the same extent. Pls remember that most commentators here are probably outside Overton.
Even liberals know not to go into black majority areas. Maybe especially liberals. American has been redefined to mean anyone who lives on this geographical boundary so yeah, maybe not that, but if you said a white person can’t go into -insert majority black area- almost everyone would understand why, except those who don’t live anywhere near one and only know blacks by their talented twentieth black coworker or the magic negros they see on TV.
You never know. Bernie’s success with hispanics might convince the establishment they’re bringing in future socialists, not future Democrats.
Do you see any difference between Bernie and the others? I don’t. The current slate of candidates spout the same socialist dogma, just in prettier words. I think the Dems are salivating for a socialist revolution where they will have unlimited power. Maybe the Reps as well, but they are not talking about it openly.
I have become cynical in my old age. Maybe I have been burned too many times by lying politicians; but then, I repeat myself.
I see people everywhere grabbing what they can for themselves, in different ways, without thought of the long run. To me, that is telling evidence of a late-stage problem where people see no future for themselves as a society or a culture. It is a broad, longer-run mass clearing of the store shelves. Which means that solutions are going to need to be more fundamental than “voting for the right guy”.
“The looting phase” yeah we are definitely deep into the decline… Gonna necessitate some radical action if there is any chance at all of righting this sinking ship. The good news is that popular sentiment is indeed moving in a more extreme direction. At least that fact provides me some small modicum of hope for the future.
What happened to the Fabian Socialists who would simply ride out the wave of Trump populism and then go right back to methodically chipping away at the foundations of society. Instead, the Left has put the pedal to the floor. Migrant caravans, tyranny story hours for children at public libraries, TV shows with POC hunting down and killing white “Nazis” in the suburbs, the NFL telling the majority of their fans to F off. The list goes on and on. On this site and others there is often talk of becoming an accelerationist. I would say the Left has chosen that path. They are shredding the last vestiges of a country that could be recognized as the United States of America.
Steve Scalise said yesterday what I had been already thinking, and that is that all of these Democrat Party establishment types who are attacking Bernie, including Obama, are themselves the same as Bernie but they know that Bernie’s time has not yet come and his nomination will put their entire movement off track. By the way I want to ask this forum if anyone here has hypothesized that the coronavirus was unleashed intentionally to destroy the economy so as to destroy Trump’s chances of reelection.
Pro;
Well Rush Limbaugh did say today that the media *coverage* of the COVID 19 was designed to hurt Trump’s 2020 chances, as opposed to them just stupidly trolling for Proggy eyeballs to sell to sponsors.
Gotta break with Rush on this one. This episode completely blows up the elite-directed previous media narrative that Trump was wrong about China. Besides this, it’s CHINA’s economy that’s being blown up: Ours, not so much (so far, God willing).
The worrying thing to me is that the Chinese reaction (Quarantining 100 mil. + people) gives the lie to their assurances that they’ve got the situation under control. They can’t even report the COVID 19 fatality rates accurately any more because they recently brought in mobile crematoriums and are just disposing of the dead from any and all causes.
A caller on Rush’s show mentioned the timely outbreak with what is going on in Hong Kong. Rush even stopped to consider that.
Covid-19 did escape the chicom lab in Wuhan but that’s it.
If the Covid-19 gets bad it will take down the entire global economy. It will crater the globalist – Davos group and probably usher in a rebellion here.
Guess what happens when about 90% of your drugs and medical supplies come from China and they no longer can provide them because their people are afraid to come to work? People will go apeshit and go after Wall Street and D.C. for encouraging this.
ProUSA. We would be fools not to consider the possibility. The deep state is depraved enough and IMHO it is definitely in their wheelhouse.
Releasing coronavirus in an effort to harm Trump could easily backfire. Should the pandemic causes a health crisis in the US, the last thing people would want to do is elect some untested wingnut like Bernie. Fear makes people not want to rock the boat. Consider how 9/11 boosted W’s popularity, even among leftists. And this shortly after they thought he stole the 2000 election from Algore. They were pissed as hell in late 2000 but loved him nine months later.
Worst case scenario for Trump is the economy tanks because of COVID-19 but hardly anyone gets very sick. Then there’s no fear but lots of hate.
I think you have it right. So if our economy tanks because of coronavirus, I think most reasonable people aren’t going to blame it on President Trump since he had no control over coronavirus, but that being said the left will certainly try to lay the blame on Trump for people in China coming down with coronavirus and bringing it to the rest of the world.
They didn’t love Bush. They never stopped hating him. They knew they just had to pretend they didn’t for a while, and then they were good to go. Myself, I wish I had been insightful enough to realize where Bush and Conservatism Inc. were taking us. And that the Bush crowd was as deceitful as the left.
Lare reply to Pro-
1. An excuse to print by the Fed
2. ‘Saving’ Social Security by decimating the old quickly, rather than by attrition with the slow squeeze of Obamacare rationing.
1 puts more real assets up for grabs
2 means more room for immigrants
If socialists get power the political establishment is out. They know that. They may keep nudging us that way, but there will always be a Bernie who comes along and tries to outdo them. That’s why there won’t be outright socialism for the foreseeable future. Assuming the political system still works.
The only difference I see is Bernie isn’t trying to hide it. Nevada hispanics must see something I don’t.
After Trump leaves presidency, USA becomes far left extremist state, secretly ruled by mostly Jewish oligarchy.
So you’re saying that nothing’s going to change?
tish-boom. Here all week, folks. Try the veal and tip your waiter.
Was anyone arrested for speaking against immigration & feminism?
If the answer is no, then next time think before u reply.
The agenda is to make nationalists sound crazy so that leftist courts can arrest them.