Man’s Greatest Invention

The great British biologist J.B.S Haldane said that fanaticism was one of mankind’s greatest inventions. By “fanaticism” he meant the burning desire to save mankind from some imagined evil. The fanatic is not just trying to help his fellow man. He feels as if it is his purpose, his reason to exists. Therefore, he will die in his effort to reach his goal, as to give up on his quest or accept defeat would be no different than denying the reason for his existence. To die trying fulfills his purpose.

Haldane credited this to monotheism. If there is one god, then no people could be favored by one god over another. All men were the creation of one god and therefore of equal importance. This leads to the great battle to decide who has the correct understanding of God’s desire for mankind. The only way to know this is to do whatever is necessary in order to bring your understanding of god’s will into being. Fanaticism therefore was the great molder of human history for the last 5,000 years.

Of course, Haldane was a fanatic himself. He was a foaming at the mouth atheist, as they tend to be, so blaming the belief in God, especially Christianity, was a natural instinct for him. A central tenet of atheism is that if man drops the superstition about invisible men in the sky, they will stop trying to impose their beliefs on one another and thus a new post-God era can begin. Mankind will be driven by reason and the underlying facts of natural reality. Logic will be the religion of man.

This is nonsense, of course, but Haldane was not wrong about fanaticism. It is a great mover of history. Where he got things wrong was in thinking monotheism was the root of human desire to save mankind. Instead it was egalitarianism, the idea that all men are naturally equal and therefore naturally worthy. This did not require the belief in one god, as we see today with our humanistic fanatics. The modern intellectual is as indifferent to God as he is committed to belief that all men are equal.

An example of this comes from the legacy site National Review. This piece argues that the coronavirus is the great leveler. Mother nature is reminding the world that all men are equal in her eyes. Because, in theory, rich people can get the virus and die, it proves the fundamental equality of mankind. Time will tell on that score, but most likely the smart and rich will do better in this than the poor and stupid. That’s because Mother Nature does not distribute her gifts equally.

Of course, if this virus turns out to be the scourge of the poor or the great killer of the stupid, the egalitarians will have an answer for that as well. As the author of the piece says, it will be due to the rich and smart taking precautions to insulate themselves from the virus. For the egalitarian fanatic, there is always some behavioral reason to explain why one group does better than another. The equality of man is the beginning and the end, the alpha and omega, of their thinking.

A great driver of history is the belief that if only everyone would do things the way they should do them, then the human condition can be overcome. It is not the only driver, for sure, as not everyone has bought into egalitarianism. In fact, egalitarianism was, for the longest time, an exclusive belief. The tribe, nation or people knew they were equal before god, but those other people, well, not so much. Conquering them and taking their stuff was fine, as it was good for your people.

In recent years, this thirst for universal equality has turned into a weird cargo cult, where simply making people appear equal will cause universal equality to spring forth. You see a bit of that in the National Review post. The author seems to be hoping the virus is a great plague that hits the elites as hard as everyone. In the midst of the suffering, so the thinking goes, everyone will suddenly embrace the equality of man. Only a fanatic can believe that he not so subtly hopes for a plague.

In fact, disaster, man-made or natural, is proof that egalitarianism is rooted in our biology, or at least in the biology of some. The great destruction of man’s creation, the bodies stacked upon one another, a scene seen in every age by every generation, has not purged this instinct from our being. There’s no reasoning with a fanatic and there is not reasoning with an egalitarian. They are immune to reality. They see only that which confirms their belief that all men are created equal.

It is why, by the way, Africa is getting a good leaving alone in the pandemic chatter. They were all revved up a month ago to display their sorrow for the poor Africans, who would surely suffer the worst from this virus. This has not happened, so the egalitarians are busy editing on-line maps to remove the whole continent from our vision. Any discussion of why some groups have done better or worse is prohibited, even by the human bio-diversity crowd. Egalitarianism is powerful magic.

It is a good reminder that whatever comes out of the other side of this pandemic, the egalitarian will still be with us. No amount of reality can dissuade him. If he can see a man in a sundress as just another one of the gals, not even the complete failure of the system built on the dream of equality will dissuade him. He will be right back at it, picking through the rubble for signs that all men are equal. Egalitarianism is man’s greatest invention, a doomsday device we cannot disarm.


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Felix Krull
Member
1 month ago

A central tenet of atheism is that if man drops the superstition about invisible men in the sky, they will stop trying to impose their beliefs on one another and blablabla.

You are making it up as you go along. There is only one tenet of atheism: that Santa isn’t real.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

Hehe, let’s not waste tons of comment space on our enjoyable little chat about that. I think atheism is a religion b/c it has ALL the tenets, you think it is not 🙂

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
1 month ago

Still on the fence with regards to Santa? I mean reindeer exist, right?

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

The postmodern West’s only religion involves wooden doors, Olympic-sized swimming pools, and symphony orchestras.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

😆😆 not exactly

Epaminondas
Member
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

I don’t know about Santa because I’ve never been to the North Pole. However, the universe exists. And that is a very troubling thought.

T. Morris
T. Morris
Reply to  Epaminondas
1 month ago

I’ve been to the North Pole, and in fact have visited Santa’s house up there. Take it from me, he’s real.

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  T. Morris
1 month ago

The North Pole is in Colorado Springs. It’s open year-round.

Santa is waiting for you!

T. Morris
T. Morris
Reply to  MemeWarVet
1 month ago
Dave O'Connell
Dave O'Connell
Reply to  T. Morris
1 month ago

no no no

obviously santa claus lives in santa claus, indiana

why wouldn’t you live in the place that is named after you?

it’d be like me not living in davidsburg, pa

Alzaebo
Reply to  MemeWarVet
1 month ago

Hell is in Michigan. N/W of Ann Arbor.

And yes, it snows there every year.

The Nazi Santa is in Antarctica.

Tarl Cabot
Tarl Cabot
Reply to  Epaminondas
1 month ago

Quantum phenomenology (which is itself a kind of religion) aside, “You can’t get something from nothing” has always been the most convincing argument for the existence of a creator, or at least, some creative force outside of time. Same thing, in my book.

DLS
DLS
Reply to  Tarl Cabot
1 month ago

Tarl Cabot – This is exactly how I come out as well. Atheists cannot explain how life came from non-life and order came from disorder. We can split an atom and release massive energy, fly to other planets through a vacuum with no oxygen, and we can beam our image to the other side of the planet in real time. We know every chemical that ever existed on earth. But we can’t create a single-celled organism in a lab. The logical explanation is that something outside our dimension is responsible.

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  DLS
1 month ago

Atheists cannot explain how life came from non-life and order came from disorder.

And so what?

It is flattering that you elevate atheists to arbiters of the ultimate questions, but just because I can’t explain life, the universe, and everything, doesn’t mean your Bronze Age explanation is true.

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

I don’t care as long as the atheists leave me and mine alone, which they can’t.

Mind you many of them are just anti- religion, one in particular.

BerndV
Member
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

Precisely. The simpleton arguments that a creator is the only explanation for something from nothing merely extends the dilemma to the question of the creator’s origin.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Tarl Cabot
1 month ago

I still like the philosophical issue of first cause, it may have other names, but the problem is simply that you can’t define the first cause. Taking the origin of the universe, the Theist would say God created it and He always existed, etc. But this violates the fundamental rule of cause and effect. A perfectly rational question then is “Where did God come from?” The debate will always rage on because we are at a draw: The believers can’t prove their God exists and the unbelievers can’t prove where this stuff came from 🙂

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
1 month ago

The believers can’t prove their God exists and the unbelievers can’t prove where this stuff came from

That’s not apples to apples. Atheists are not claiming to know where stuff comes from, while Christians are; the onus of evidence is on them.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

Given you don’t know where stuff comes from, how can you be so certain it doesn’t come from a purposeful creator? The faith that it comes from somewhere strikes me as less rational than that it comes from a creator.

Alzaebo
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

2020 BC: cuz Magic Sky

2020 AD: cuz Magic Dirt

DLS
DLS
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

“That’s not apples to apples. Atheists are not claiming to know where stuff comes from, while Christians are; the onus of evidence is on them.” Your “Santa” line implies you know where it did not come from, which is the other side of the same coin. I can respect agnostics. But atheists display a condescension from the sidelines, while exhibiting the same certainty they mock. As for evidence, sometimes in science we prove something that we cannot see exists by the reaction to it. I cannot prove you once had Covid-19, but if you have the antibodies, that is pretty… Read more »

Custodia Sepulchrum
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

Any postulate absent of proof is a faith based belief.

Atheism is therefore a faith based belief as it cannot provide a rational and provable explanation for the universe and life that precludes the existence of a God or gods. The onus of evidence is on both sides otherwise it’s a 50-50 push. Nice try at punting though.

To be purely rational, agnosticism is the way to go.

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Custodia Sepulchrum
1 month ago

Any postulate absent of proof is a faith based belief.

Atheism is therefore a faith based belief

Hence the Santa-argument: does not believing in Santa constitute a religion?

The onus of evidence is on both sides otherwise it’s a 50-50 push.

Oh, you’re agnostic about Santa, then? It’s 50/50, since you can’t prove he doesn’t exist?

Custodia Sepulchrum
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
1 month ago

If God were to be infinite at least as Christian theology holds, then God can have no beginning nor end and then time cannot exist for this deity. Nor can God exist within this universe as much as the universe exists within God as infinity would also suppose infinite dimensions.

Flair1239
Flair1239
Reply to  Tarl Cabot
1 month ago

That’s where I am at to. I am not a Christian, but science sure has trouble trying to get away from God (Prime Mover).

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Flair1239
1 month ago

And that Prime Mover is not necessarily a giver of moral law. These are two distinct roles.

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  LineInTheSand
1 month ago

Way I see it some kind polytheism makes way more sense than monotheism.

Alzaebo
Reply to  Tarl Cabot
1 month ago

“some creative force outside of time”

The relentless, omnipresent Force of binding, one of the five fundamental forces of Creation: the weak nuclear force.

We can put a Face on it, because that is how we frame our understanding.

But to claim consciousness is a necessary fundamental floor is to be Deepak Chopra.
Does water need guidance to run downhill?

Vizzini
Member
Reply to  Alzaebo
1 month ago

Does water need guidance to run downhill?

It needs gravity to guide it. But what is gravity, why is it, and how does it act on water?

Like all the fundamental forces, the fact that gravity exists and works is obvious, but we have only rough, incomplete mathematical models for how it works. Nobody has ever detected a graviton and in fact there is no complete theory for how gravity works.

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Vizzini
1 month ago

We have perfectly good explanations for why water runs downhill.

https://www.theonion.com/evangelical-scientists-refute-gravity-with-new-intellig-1819567984

Tarstarkusz
Member
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

The Santa argument is gay.

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Tarstarkusz
1 month ago

It cuts to the core: do you take wildly improbable fairy-tales on faith?

Or rather, why do you make an exception from basic skepticism and common sense, when it comes to your own, personal Jesus?

Tarstarkusz
Member
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

I’m a reluctant atheist. I’ll take the Jesus crowd over the atheists any day of the week. Globohomo is entirely atheistic. Equality is atheistic. SJWs are mostly atheistic. Hell, the downfall of the churches is largely down to atheistic SJWs infecting them. Most of the evil we oppose comes from the atheists. Just take a look at humanism, which comes directly from atheism. The atheist crowd flat out lies about religion and the religious (Christians). Of course, the atheists are absolute COWARDS at heart, which is why they cannot stand up to the muzzies. They use the courts to mess… Read more »

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Tarstarkusz
1 month ago

The huge number of Soviet citizens who fought and died in WW II were fanatical in support of mother Russia, and most likely atheist. Religion doesn’t have all the true believers. I concede Islam seems to be in the lead in the modern world. False dichotomy. Don’t unreasonably divide things. Would you reject as a dissident right member someone who shared many goals with you, yet was an atheist Jew? Is it ok if his grandfather was Jewish but he’s been Methodist all his life? And it’s much more acceptable that he doesn’t believe in God, as long as he’s… Read more »

Tarstarkusz
Member
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
1 month ago

I have no idea how many of the soldiers fighting for the SU were atheists, but I am guessing very few. This was only a short time after the Soviets came to power and most of them had a very miserable existence under it up until this time period. Most Soviets did not even have a radio in those days. Most didn’t even have power. They were fighting a pretty brutal occupation of their homes too. I really don’t see the point either way. It isn’t a dichotomy. We just don’t need rabid atheists trying to further fracture an already… Read more »

Vizzini
Member
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
1 month ago

The huge number of Soviet citizens who fought and died in WW II were fanatical in support of mother Russia, and most likely atheist.

No way. The average Soviet was an Orthodox Christian who understood it was best to not be too vocal about such things. Orthodox Christianity came out of the closet in former Soviet states as soon as it was safe to do so.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Vizzini
1 month ago

And don’t forget Russian Orthodoxy is played like a fiddle by Putin. Unlike Stalin, he knows he can’t repress such belief, so he uses it like a tool. Just like the monarchs of old.

Al from da Nort
Al from da Nort
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
1 month ago

Ben; Besides the vicious coercion that was a central feature of the Red Army, there were the atavistic elements of manhood as motivators that the Commies successfully appealed to. Many studies over the years have shown that men in actual combat mainly fight on for their immediate buddies survival first, and then for honor among their family/tribe members, second. Ideology divorced from honor from your primary reference group is way down the list. Females in the military beak this age-old dynamic up by introducing squad level competition for sex through protection of your particular ‘squeeze of the day’. That’s *why*… Read more »

Member
Reply to  Tarstarkusz
1 month ago

Dissidents need to pick a side. You are either with the normal people or you are with the tribe and the atheists. This is basically it. I know that saying “this is war” is passe now because everything is a war. When I make a turkey sandwich I’m fighting “the war on hunger”, etc… Anyway, this struggle against the egalitarians IS war and it’s a big one and it’s global. You might even call it a kind of slow cooker WWIII. Big wars always mean alliances, often of people who don’t share much in common except a hatred of The… Read more »

ExNativeSon
ExNativeSon
Reply to  pozymandias
1 month ago

Pozy, feminists and Muslims, blacks and Jews as real wartime coalitions will last about a week so those coalitions should be a huge benefit for us. They will slaughter each other.

As far as dissidents some of whom are Christian and some not, in the prior world some were left or right, whatever. I think and hope we can stick together through possible war time and after.

The way I see it there are few basic absolutes and we should be able to agree to disagree on the rest. Our survival is what is crucial.

Independant_George
Independant_George
Reply to  pozymandias
1 month ago

Lol! Hilarious. If Hitler, Mao, and Pol Pot all ate cornflakes, would you then be posting your hate for the flake and preference for weet bix? Cornflakes have nothing to do with it right? Like Felix has repeated, being an atheist is someone who does not believe in religion due to a lack of evidence. It DOES NOT MEAN an atheist cannot determine right actions, or broken systems, ignorance, or mass corruption as we see in evidence in America atm. Nor does it mean an atheist cannot be an upstanding citizen, without being in thrall to victimhood culture and other… Read more »

Independant_George
Independant_George
Reply to  Tarstarkusz
1 month ago

Huh? You’re a reluctant atheist, yet you help to produce the evil in the world? If people are the root of all evil as you imply by virtue of being atheist, then aren’t you as well? What are you saying? You can be atheist but not part of team ’cause of all shit’?

Alzaebo
Reply to  Tarstarkusz
1 month ago

You hate gay Santa!
You DENY Gay Santa!

tonaludatus
tonaludatus
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

just saw one munching on my wife’s hyacinths

Alzaebo
Reply to  tonaludatus
1 month ago

That song-

My dog don’t know Jesus
He just looks for more food in his bowl

Chad Bigly
Chad Bigly
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

wow, what a compelling argument.

Dave
Dave
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
1 month ago

Most atheists are Progressives, and Progressivism definitely is a religion, an especially fanatical one because no heaven up in the sky means they have to create heaven down here.

I doubt there’s any god or afterlife, but Progressivism is profoundly retarded, and getting stupider every day. They think a man becomes a woman when he puts on a dress, and they call such nonsense “science”!

T. Morris
T. Morris
Reply to  Dave
1 month ago

And we’re supposed to take these fruitloops seriously when one of their own grievance-stricken misfits manages to wriggle its way into a high level position of power and influence such as (Pennsylvania’s) Secretary of Health. I’m definitely a Believer, and therefore I can say, with literally no reservations, “Why do the heathen rage, and the People imagine a vain thing?” I’m not calling anyone in particular a heathen, but if the shoe fits and all that.

Alzaebo
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
1 month ago

Santa deniers. We should gas them all.

BerndV
Member
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
1 month ago

The only “tenet” of atheism is the necessity that evidence must precede persuasion. Otherwise intelligent people generally take this for granted but for the monumental exception given to religious belief. The last 10,000 years have yet to advance any form of religious belief to the status of hypothesis.

TheLastStand
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

I think that comment was aimed toward the vocal atheist crowd that rambles on about sky daddies.

Also I think those people are atheists because they are egalitarians. A supreme being responsible for the existence of everything is the most anti-egalitarian concept ever.

Finally, the question of a god or no god is so fundamental that there are a ton of implications attached to either answer.

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  TheLastStand
1 month ago

I think that comment was aimed toward the vocal atheist crowd that rambles on about sky daddies.

Yes, and I studiously did not comment on his charming characterization of atheists.

But my OP was about Z’s definition of atheism, not whether Santa is real or not. It does not follow from atheism, that mankind will be driven by reason or that people would stop being preachy about their convictions.

Finally, the question of a god or no god is so fundamental that there are a ton of implications attached to either answer.

Only if you’re religious.

TheLastStand
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

Just one of those implications is that atheism either necessitates belief in spontaneous generation which Pasteur disproved back in the 19th century or something fanciful like aliens seeding life on Earth.

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  TheLastStand
1 month ago

Just one of those implications is that atheism either necessitates belief in spontaneous generation

Atheism necessitate nothing except not being superstitious. Whether you believe in the Big Bang or not, is a separate issue.

tristan
tristan
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

Those last 2 sentences look a little contradictory?

Alzaebo
Reply to  tristan
1 month ago

I’m a very religious atheist.
Is that contradictory?

For me, the great contradiction is that there is One God.
Or that the gods have anything to do with Creation.

Who sez?
Why are they more vested in semantics than exploration?

TheLastStand
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

Denying the existence of a creator leaves you with only those 2 possibilities regardless of whether or not you want to accept one of them.

The fact is that spontaneous generation was disproved and believing in aliens is no better than believing in a god and ultimately only pushes the problem back.

If you want be an atheist and claim to be logical, you ought examine the logical results of your starting premise .

Alzaebo
Reply to  TheLastStand
1 month ago

Thanks, replied later- logic is a parlor game. My premise is that your starting premise is wrong. A trick, a trap. I reject it.

Independant_George
Independant_George
Reply to  TheLastStand
1 month ago

Except there is a lot more evidence to suggest aliens exist.

Alzaebo
Reply to  TheLastStand
1 month ago

Thank the Alien for 19th century science.
They proved that the world was coming to an end in 1844, too.

Alzaebo
Reply to  TheLastStand
1 month ago

Why only one? Because the volcano god says he’ll defeat your god, your People, and you?

Submit! Submit! Seek ye the strongest power, the greatest magicks!

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

I can’t speak for the existence of God, Felix, but I have been both dead and aware for several minutes. There’s “more than this,” but I have no experience that suggests any particular theology has a handle, much less a monopoly, on any, much less all, of what that “more” is.

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Exile
1 month ago

I’m not a neurologist, but your experience seems a few nails short of a miracle to me, if you don’t mind me saying so.

I do not dispute the world is probably infinitely larger than we can even imagine (in fact, I hope it is) but just because we can’t unravel the immaculate conception of the universe or all the mysteries of life, doesn’t mean we need to resort to volcano gods.

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

I’ve beaten the bushes for all the scientific explanations and remain unconvinced. Occam’s Razor says the supernatural explanation is more plausible than the empirical logical positivist denials like “DMT rush.”

I agree 100% that theology is mostly spergery based on idle speculation.

If I’m right, I’ll let you hear about it on the Other Side. If you’re right, neither of us will ever know the answer for sure anyway.

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Exile
1 month ago

If you’re right, neither of us will ever know the answer for sure anyway.

A variant of Pascal’s Wager: if you’re right, you get to gloat, but if you’re wrong, nothing happens. That’s a no-brainer!

Alzaebo
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

Pascal’s Folly: “just lie, you’ll fool Him”

(Still, ‘fake it til you make it’ does have its merits)

TheLastStand
Reply to  Alzaebo
1 month ago

On the contrary, if you act live like a Christian and profess the dogmas, you are demonstrating your faith from your works regardless of how you feel.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

If he’s right, there will be no gloating. I suspect such human emotion will no longer exist.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Exile
1 month ago

Curious. Usually Occam is an argument against God because you don’t want to make an explanation needlessly complex. The non-theist says “Existence exists, it doesn’t need an explanation.” We rationalists live by cause and effect, it’s just in the case of first cause you aren’t allowed to ask “why?” 🙂

Alzaebo
Reply to  Exile
1 month ago

My only disagreement: “we’ll never know”

STRONGLY disagree.
Who sez? The sages?

When David Goldman said, “we’ll never know the Meaning of Life”, he was as wrong as wrong could be.

Range Front Fault
Range Front Fault
Reply to  Exile
1 month ago

Exile…..you too, huh!

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Range Front Fault
1 month ago

He’s been in Scandinavia too long.

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

SoCal again, Felix – the closest I’m likely getting to Scandinavia this year is the PacNW or Alberta, but I’m keeping my fingers crossed.

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  Range Front Fault
1 month ago

I’ll tell you about it sometime, Range – same for you.

Alzaebo
Reply to  Range Front Fault
1 month ago

Millions. Billions sense something.
That’s why I’m a very religious atheist.

I trust the common wisdom.
Above all, I trust the White way of wisdom.

We’re different, something new.
The variety of our kind shows this.

Forever Templar
Forever Templar
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

That beard sure seemed real, even passing the pull test.

theRussians
theRussians
Member
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

Actually had to put my device down I was laughing so hard.

Tarstarkusz
Member
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

Yeah and the only tenant of libertarianism is the NAP, right?
The whole reason all of these atheist fanatic organizations exist is to spread atheism (and use their (((fellows)))) in the courts to crush Christianity) in the hopes of a secular utopia where members of the tribe are full members of the European family.

Alzaebo
Reply to  Tarstarkusz
1 month ago

Nailed it, Tars. Guess who created the American Atheist Society and the Skeptics society, just to paint honest atheists with the same anti-Christian label.

Alzaebo
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

Now THAT was funny.

Before the tedious squabble of second-graders begins- “Is too!…Is not!”-

How ’bout the basics:

What are we looking at
How does it work
Why?- what’s it do (what’s the function)

TheLastStand
Reply to  Alzaebo
1 month ago

See the Watchmaker Argument.

Alzaebo
Reply to  TheLastStand
1 month ago

Watchmaker is another semantic pissing match. Give me the mechanics.

TheLastStand
Reply to  Alzaebo
1 month ago

It is the task of science to determine the material and formal causes of the world and life. It is duty of philosophy to determine the agent and final causes.

Mike_C
Mike_C
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

“Santa isn’t real.” Santa IS real. And he is a homosexual negro. I have proof. https://www.amazon.com/Santas-Husband-Daniel-Kibblesmith/dp/0062748742 Daniel Kibblesmith is the appalling manlet who recently gifted the world with The (New) New Warriors (revamp of a comicbook action team I had never heard of) featuring new heroes Trailblazer, Screentime, B-Negative, and [waaaaait for it], twins Safespace and the non-binary Snowflake. This video is actually worth viewing, for the mockery potential alone, though it’s rather horrifying. https://youtu.be/5PCWUCv1rnU PS for MemeWarVet: “Early Life” is cryptic about Kibblesmith. The appalling manlet is on record joking about that, so it’s a “probably” — but who… Read more »

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  Mike_C
1 month ago

Still can’t believe those characters aren’t a meme. Jewish is as Jewish does + trolling about it = signaling his teammates.

tristan
tristan
Reply to  Mike_C
1 month ago

Now let him do the same with King David or Moses. Lets see the old testament revamped in the same manner. Wankers.

Gauss
Gauss
Reply to  Mike_C
1 month ago

Oh, boy, did that video ever get ratioed. It was worth watching jus to hear about how Snowflake is nonbinary (“goes by ‘they/them'”). Daniel Kibblesmith must be the model for Snowflake.

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  Mike_C
1 month ago

Just saw this now- a quick DuckDuckGo search (NEVER use Google!!) revealed the following quote:

“ I have a Jewish mother and a non-Jewish father, and every year we celebrated Christmas and Santa Claus brought us presents. And every year we also lit a menorah.”

So yeah. Every. Single. F***ing. Time.

BerndV
Member
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

I presume that Felix, like myself, rejects both egalitarianism and theism. Those of us that fall into both of these intellectual categories appear to be quite rare throughout the history of Homo sapiens. It has proven to be a constant source of discouragement throughout my life that adherence to one usually precludes the other. The rationality that naturally leads to the conclusion that egalitarianism is empirically false would seem to result in the same conclusion regarding any flavor of theism. Alas, most humans seem biologically predetermined to embrace some form of belief that cannot be derived from evidence. The logical… Read more »

tristan
tristan
1 month ago

May be the first para should be

Therefore, you will die in his effort to reach his goal, as to give up on his quest or accept defeat would be no different than denying the reason for his existence.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
1 month ago

I’ve heard the theory that monotheism gave rise to fanaticism but didn’t know it was Haldane’s. I am no defender of monotheism, I can easily see why it would lead to fanaticism. But I suspect it might be the other way around; ppl did not become fanatics b/c they invented monotheism, they came upon monotheism b/c they wanted to be fanatic about their god. Fanaticism (probably, who really knows this stuff??) comes from an inner void and the need to fill that up. As Hoffer said, if a man’s business is worth minding, he will mind his own business. Fanatics… Read more »

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
1 month ago

ppl did not become fanatics b/c they invented monotheism, they came upon monotheism b/c they wanted to be fanatic about their god.

Just so: religion is downstream from culture.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

I think they have extensive feedback loops between them that make causality (‘which is downstream from which’) very difficult to untangle. Both are upstream from politics though and probably downstream from HBD.

Sandmich
Sandmich
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
1 month ago

A humanities buddy called religion a “mirror”, which works on many levels that I won’t bother to expound upon.

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
1 month ago

probably downstream from HBD.

Yes. That’s why the profoundly atheist Sweden resembles Minnesota.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

Now that’s an insight I had not been aware of. Thanks.

Alzaebo
Reply to  Compsci
1 month ago

Profound indeed. Exquisite.

Alzaebo
Reply to  Alzaebo
1 month ago

(Exquisite, in regards to the ‘mirror’. Just so.)

Al from da Nort
Al from da Nort
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

Felix;
“That’s why *now* profoundly atheist Sweden resembles *now profoundly soft Marxist* Minnesota”. FIFY (fixed it for you).

But both Sweden and Minnesota *are* profound believers in ‘magic dirt’ else they wouldn’t have let 3rd world moslems take them over. So they both are believers in the supernatural, just a different one than before: One far more destructive to their children (if they have any) than any belief in God could ever be.

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Al from da Nort
1 month ago

But both Sweden and Minnesota *are* profound believers in ‘magic dirt’ else they wouldn’t have let 3rd world moslems take them over.

You’re proving my point. Their cultural mores and values are the same irrespective of whether they believe in god.

And America is built on Magic Dirt theory. Jesus didn’t exactly save you from the Hart-Celler Act, did he? In fact, Christian organisations are the main motors of the immigration-industrial complex.

Epaminondas
Member
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

The abolitionists were mainly religious fanatics.

Alzaebo
Reply to  Epaminondas
1 month ago

The “abolitionists” were the New England (((bankers))) calling in their loans on their Mississipi Delta (((owner))) brothers.

Of course, goys did the fighting and dying.
Two birds with one stone.

KGB
KGB
Reply to  Alzaebo
1 month ago

Grant’s General Orders #11, a brief moment of lucidity notwithstanding.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

Magic Dirt Theory didn’t really take root–so to speak–in the US until the mid-60s. As such, it’s a facet of Western New Leftism rather than of America qua America.

Alzaebo
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

Krull the Magnificent, they called him.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

Felix. Yes, good insight. Some of these Christian organizations are pretty good wrt to what they do. Franklin Graham’s setup for helping disaster victims puts the Fed’s to shame. However, when he collects my donation for say, hurricane relief, he then uses left over funds to help non-Americans all over the world.

Catholic charities as well, especially with their refugee resettlement, also work against my interests. At this point, my charitable donations extend little farther than local groups in town—where I can visit and see their efforts are not in conflict with my beliefs.

BTP
Member
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 month ago

“Religion is downstream from culture,” may be the most un-empirical thing ever said.

Tarstarkusz
Member
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
1 month ago

A lot of atheists get the cause and effect backwards. They routinely attribute “anti-gay” sentiment to Christianity. Even if you accept atheist thinking the bible was made up by ignorant goat herders, they obviously already didn’t like gays. They ignore atheistic atrocities while attributing every atrocity ever committed by a Christian to the religion.
Atheists like to pretend that they are above all the human pettiness they ascribe to religion and that widespread atheism will lead to a secular utopia and ignore all evidence to the contrary.

DLS
DLS
Reply to  Tarstarkusz
1 month ago

Which is why atheists have to go back a thousand years to the Crusades, where 1-3 million died in centuries of conflict, to get an example of religious atrocities. But they ignore Mao and Stalin, who killed between 50-100 million in the 20th century. Both were avowed atheists who banned religion from their countries, and actively persecuted Christians. Even the atheistic Chi-Coms of today, when they are not persecuting the religious, kill Falun Gong people because they want to twirl in the parks.

Tarstarkusz
Member
Reply to  DLS
1 month ago

Which they then try to blame on the Christians. The Crusades were mostly defensive in nature and were a response to Muslim atrocities and expansion into Christian areas.

They absolutely hate Christianity. Hatred of Christians and Christianity is what drives these people, not some love of reason. This is why they are always trying to ascribe all the advances of Christendom to Muslims or foreigners. Erase Christendom and we are living like the Romans did, at best. This reality just eats them up.

tristan
tristan
Reply to  Tarstarkusz
1 month ago

I never understood that gap in understanding TBH. I tried to explain to someone the other day that pretty much all of the ME and North Africa was Christian until the Islamic expansion.

Presenting facts was almost like a replay of confronting a vampire with a cross in the old Hammer films.

Alzaebo
Reply to  Tarstarkusz
1 month ago

The atheists were co-opted by those who created Islam. This is a war of smoke and mirrors.

Alzaebo
Reply to  DLS
1 month ago

Please stop saying Communists are atheists.

The Bolshevik creators and backers of puppets Stalin and Mao were enforcing their religion, the dictate of their God- to kill and enslave the people of Christ, and all other gods.

The conquest religion of the master race must suppress all other gods, and their peoples.

Not atheist at all.
Atheists don’t care.

The greatest trick of the Devil was not that he didn’t exist, but that he was the Father of the Christ- who fought him!!

Thus, the Constantine state religion was painted with the same bad paint as the Masters.

Alzaebo
Reply to  Alzaebo
1 month ago

The force of creation is above the volcano god- above all the gods.

This is the Spirit within that the Christ, and all good men, speak for- and which speaks through them.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Tarstarkusz
1 month ago

Voltaire, no friend of religion, master of sardonic wit, had some wonderful quotes. I don’t have the exact at hand, so consider these paraphrases:
“The Koran is a book whose every page is an insult to common sense.” (Could the same be said for other holy books?)
“The Jews are the only ancient people that had to have a divine prohibition against bestiality in their holy book.”

Disimpact
Disimpact
1 month ago

Africa is probably unscathed due to demographics: only a tiny fraction of that continent’s population lives past 60: The poor and stupid will certainly be hit a lot harder in the US. (See Detroit, New York, Milwaukee, New Orleans.) solipsistic and narcissistic as they are, US coloreds are already trying to attribute their “disproportionate impact” to the usual “root causes” of racism, redlining, obesity, and so on. Little thought is given to the fact that perhaps this group is suffering disproportionately because it has never really understood the germ theory of disease. While white people largely avoid large gatherings, the… Read more »

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  Disimpact
1 month ago

weather is saving them. same in south america

T. Morris
T. Morris
Reply to  Karl McHungus
1 month ago

Continents of History vs. Continents of Nature. There is a reason those Peacock Bass grow so big in Amazonia. …

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  Disimpact
1 month ago

Well in typical egalitarian fashion, the cure will render millions of people poor and displaced, where they can intersect with all kinds of death vectors. That should help flatten the disparate impact curve. The war on poverty has really ceded ground in this war on virus. So much so that the cure for the virus is more poverty. Ignoring reality at all costs plays well with the single-mindedness of fanaticism. It also allows the solutions of the egalitarian fixers to sow the seeds of the next problem. The equality they solve for always results in more people miserable and likely… Read more »

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Screwtape
1 month ago

Always in the background but overlooked is the myriad ways the civilized-developed-White (ok, Euro- and Asian-) world supports the very existence, and more so the material comforts of the real dirt people. If the brains that runs all the machinery disappears, whether due to a disease, politics or simple attrition, the machinery will run for a little while but eventually fail slowly or quickly and spectacularly. Look to any post-colonial African country or black-majority city in the USA and judge for yourself. In science fiction it is usually the savage, most animal-like people who survive. When the latest cycle completes… Read more »

tristan
tristan
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
1 month ago

Unfortunately, unlike the Melanesian savages, or the post colonial countries, millions of these people are now next door to you and if things break down they will not be wondering where the bounties went as they know where they started from.

Marko
Marko
Reply to  Disimpact
1 month ago

AAs are more social than most…they dread social isolation much more than whites or Asians, who are perfectly happy on their phones or computers (or books) as opposed to cook-outs.

To put it simply, I think the disease’s trajectory can be determined by two factors: the latitude of the people and the socialness of the people. If you’re high-latitude and highly social you’re hit the hardest. Ergo, Jews in NYC, blacks in Chicago, and Chinese in Seattle had better take more precautions. Japanese in Indonesia, not so much.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Disimpact
1 month ago

I suspect testing in Africa doesn’t quite measure up to US standards…

Marko
Marko
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 month ago

US standards are shite too. But I get your point.

tristan
tristan
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 month ago

I would wager getting tested for a slightly nasty cold in Africa is the least of your worries disease wise.

joe_mama
joe_mama
Reply to  Disimpact
1 month ago

Based on first hand experience (knowing a family that has it), being overweight and diabetic makes this incredibly bad for you. Also if you’re old on top of that.

Obesity and diabetes runs rampant through the black American community. Not so much in Africa I imagine. And then if the rumors are true about Malaria medicines helping out, that would also help explain things in Africa. Though a lot remains a mystery still. Maybe weather? But then how do you explain New Orleans etc?

Mike_C
Mike_C
Reply to  Disimpact
1 month ago

“Africa is probably unscathed due to demographics”

No brain, no pain.

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  Disimpact
1 month ago

At its most lethal using government stats this virus is just under 3% lethal. With the myriad of other things that will kill you in Africa the high fertility rate and sketchy data from there , we’d never notice. From what I can gather this diseases does have significantly higher effects in the US and UK at least on Asians , Middle Eastern peoples Blacks and Older Whites. What is scary though is not only do we have a global depression do to histrionic overreaction to this virus , food exports have basically stopped and at the same time giant… Read more »

Chet Rollins
Chet Rollins
1 month ago

It should be noted that the egalitarianism of modern Christianity is not historical. It was well understood there would be a hierarchy, even in Heaven(see Dante), and while the rich were called to give to the poor, nowhere did it say everyone had rights to equal amounts of goods, or that people should treat outsiders equally (see Jesus and the Samaritan woman and his comment about dogs). This makes sense, as Jesus was not stupid, and neither was the Church about the ramifications of such thinking. Read Thomas Paine’s Age of Reason, who was essentially the Hitchens of his time,… Read more »

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Chet Rollins
1 month ago

Paine the Hitchens of his time! I love it! 🙂 May I put in a plug for Deism? This is the belief in a God that created and sustains everything but does not intervene in the affairs of Man in any way. This was an evolution in the Enlightenment’s changing thought of religion. For all practical purposes it was equal to atheism. This is “God the Utterly Indifferent” from (IIRC) Heinlein’s “Stranger in a Strange Land”.

The Babe
The Babe
1 month ago

he will die in his effort to reach his goal

It seems like more and more in the modern world he’s willing to transfer the glorious honor of dying to you.

T. Morris
T. Morris
Reply to  The Babe
1 month ago

Quite. That is why he has changed that line from “Battle Hymn” originally declaring “let us die to make men free,” to “let us live to make men free.”

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  T. Morris
1 month ago

Yep, and one of the reasons I no longer attend services.

Saml Adams
Saml Adams
Reply to  T. Morris
1 month ago

And one entire verse has been omitted for years…
“I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel. As you deal with My contemners, so with you my Grace shall deal. Let the hero born of woman crush the serpent with his heel”

T. Morris
T. Morris
Reply to  Saml Adams
1 month ago
Mike_C
Mike_C
Reply to  Saml Adams
1 month ago

I wasn’t aware of that one being omitted (but my lack of awareness means little). But for years I wasn’t even aware there was a 6th verse:

He is coming like the glory of the morning on the wave,
He is Wisdom to the mighty, He is Succour to the brave,
So the world shall be His footstool, and the soul of Time His slave,

No doubt that unspeakable S-word. Well, unspeakable unless it’s used to beat us over the head with our collective guilt.

Bill
Bill
1 month ago

While many atheists do indeed subscribe to the new PC religion of egalitarianism, it doesn’t have to be that way.

Many of us who reject iron-age myths, look instead to science, as the best means of understanding who we are as human beings, and how we came to be that way.

And science reveals egalitarianism to be every bit as fallacious as religion.
.

ExNativeSon
ExNativeSon
Reply to  Bill
1 month ago

Bill, unfortunately it takes humans to perform science. And the current priesthood that rules over what passes for reality today is not interested in data that contradicts their baseline premise of egalitarianism.

Or as they say, “feelings don’t cate about your facts” when they march you out of the temple naked and unemployed.

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Bill
1 month ago

Science reveals what we don’t know. 10 questions arise in answering 1.

james wilson
james wilson
Member
Reply to  Bill
1 month ago

Science reveals the scientist far more often than it reveals it’s subject, unfortunately, and increasingly. Belief in science is a religious cult disquised as a belief in science. Like the cult of Darwin, they grasp their prayer beads and cast incantations at unbelievers, especially the scientific ones. Science advances against scientist–as the man said–one death at a time.

ExNativeSon
ExNativeSon
Reply to  james wilson
1 month ago

James, the last sentence in your post reminds of one of my favorite books back in my first go around in academia, “The Structure of Scientific Revolutions.” Highly recommended for those who haven’t read it.

https://www.amazon.com/Structure-Scientific-Revolutions-50th-Anniversary/dp/0226458121

DLS
DLS
Reply to  Bill
1 month ago

I agree with your last sentence, but science will never provide insight on who we are as human beings. We are ghosts in machines. Science can rudimentarily explain the physics of the machine. Understanding the ghost can only come through faith.

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  DLS
1 month ago

The material can’t grasp the immaterial.

Bill_Mullins
Member
1 month ago

I’m no fanatic but I do believe that all men should receive equal treatment before the law. Jefferson was no fanatic when he wrote “that All men are created equal”. I believe that the equality Jefferson wrote about was that all should be treated equally by officers of the law. When Jefferson wrote those words, It was much harder to bring an accusation against a rich man (or his progeny) or a titled man than it was a “commoner”. ZMan, are you saying that that sort of preferential treatment, codified by the law, is right and proper? Are you saying… Read more »

T. Morris
T. Morris
Reply to  Bill_Mullins
1 month ago

Not to speak out of turn, Mr. Mullins, but I would suggest you read Zippy on this question of “equality before the law.” Thoroughly. Start here, if you like:

https://zippycatholic.wordpress.com/?s=equality+before+the+law

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Bill_Mullins
1 month ago

“that All men are created equal”, a phrase I was in love with for most of my life (tons of things are gradually coming up for revision), was war propaganda. Then it became dogma, ie religion of a kind.

Apex Predator
Apex Predator
Reply to  Bill_Mullins
1 month ago

“ZMan, are you saying that that sort of preferential treatment, codified by the law, is right and proper? Are you saying that there SHOULD be one law for peed-ons such as ourselves and another for elites?” You already know the answer to this, and it isn’t the first time you’ve posted something confrontational like this with a blatantly obvious piece of bait sitting on a hook. Are you familiar with Vox Day’s gamma sperg theory? He isn’t wrong, even if he assigns it to everyone who disagrees with him. But there are some times when it is 100% accurate. I’m… Read more »

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  Apex Predator
1 month ago

“underlining” <- my favorite part of the comment

Apex Predator
Apex Predator
Reply to  Karl McHungus
1 month ago

Is the grammar enforcer gamma sperg really the hill you want to die on Karl? Do you pick out Z’s errors as well?(I think you do actually) Nothing like jumping directly into the line of fire proving my point yet again. You are a Smart Boy™ (along w/ OP, we get it!)

comment image

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  Apex Predator
1 month ago

how am i to blame for you providing everyone a good laugh? I would bet hard money you are wearing a t-shirt with vox’s picture on it. A suspiciously stained T-shirt…

bilejones
Member
Reply to  Apex Predator
1 month ago

And you Nazi’s know what awaits , don’t you?
comment image

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Karl McHungus
1 month ago

Amusing, but really a typical spell checker error that often goes unnoticed. Whatever is going on here with my iPad spell checker and the blog, I get at least half a dozen such in any posting and need to go back to or react after reread. Indeed, I didn’t even know what you were referring to and had to reread Apex’s comment closely. I corrected it in my mind and noticed nothing.

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  Compsci
1 month ago

i figured it was a spelling completion error, but the vainglorious pomposity of the comment was more than i could resist 😛

Bill_Mullins
Member
Reply to  Apex Predator
1 month ago

Predator, you know exactly jack SHIT about me aside from the fact that I am bold enough to use my own name instead of cravenly hiding behind a nom-de-net like so many brave net warriors here. I asked the host a question because I had a question about something HEwrote. I don’t do deep seated underlying psychology or other such nit noy bullshit! I ask simple direct questions couched in simple direct language precisely as I was taught in Air Force Effective Writing back around 1975 or so. For the record, I respect the ZMan FAR TOO MUCH to believe… Read more »

DLS
DLS
Reply to  Bill_Mullins
1 month ago

I believe men are created equally before the law, and have the same worth in the eyes of God. That is different from saying they have the ability to contribute to society equally.

Bill_Mullins
Member
Reply to  DLS
1 month ago

Thank you. I share that belief and it seemed to me that the ZMan was saying the exact opposite so I stupidly asked for clarification. I suppose around here one is not allowed to question the ZMan.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Bill_Mullins
1 month ago

Yeah, Rachel Jeantel is the epitome of “equal before the law.” Ohnoes, you’ll reply, that’s not what you mean. But it is what you will get with your blanket statement. No, we are not equal in any way nor should we be ‘equal’ before some presumed law. What you’re looking for is perfect fairness which is found nowhere in nature. You’re presuming some jury made up of some racial and/or IQ level mixture can rationally and fairly and impartially determine justice. Democracy and equality – both are massive lives and massive failures.

Balkan Fanatic
Balkan Fanatic
1 month ago

Christianity of course as the original “leftist” ideology is the one which established the idea of “equality” as well as of ” making world better place” perversely tying to the notion of “original sin” and eternal culpability In its essence christian cult is the first universalistic, or in today language the globalist ideology Neither in Greece nor in Rome any of these ideas existed Inhabitants of these domains saw themselves as far above the rest (rightly so). The idea of making the world “better” place would be laughed at as were the first Christians arriving in Rome They were highly… Read more »

Balkan Fanatic
Balkan Fanatic
Reply to  Balkan Fanatic
1 month ago

No thinking man would dispute the idea that fanaticism stems from monotheistic religions
Look at Greece and its history of dissent, of different philosophy that existed in relatively short period of historic time and compare that to the fanatic zealots of Christianity and their reign from roughly from 500 to 1500 AD
That period that ends with reformation and renaissance was literally a swamp where no new idea in art or science was born
1000 years of absolute christian domination aka dark ages was the age of fanaticism par excellence which western civilization had not known neither before nor after

Chet Rollins
Chet Rollins
Reply to  Balkan Fanatic
1 month ago

“Look at Greece and its history of dissent, of different philosophy that existed in relatively short period of historic time and compare that to the fanatic zealots of Christianity and their reign from roughly from 500 to 1500 AD”

I quess Aquinas, Scotus, Bacon, etc. never existed.

Balkan Fanatic
Balkan Fanatic
Reply to  Chet Rollins
1 month ago

Bacon was born in 1526 The other 2 are christian theologians

Chet Rollins
Chet Rollins
Reply to  Balkan Fanatic
1 month ago

Roger Bacon.

And just because they were theologians does not mean they were bereft of Philosophy.

I’d strongly recommend Copleston’s History of Philosophy to show the wealth of debate that happened throughout history, even in the ahistorially named ‘dark ages’.

Balkan Fanatic
Balkan Fanatic
Reply to  Chet Rollins
1 month ago

Sure I had spent some considerable time studying one of the major philosophical disputes of the time, namely
“How many angels can dance on the head of a pin”

“How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?” (alternatively “How many angels can stand on the point of a pin?”[1]) is a reductio ad absurdum challenge to medieval scholasticism in general, and its angelology in particular, as represented by figures such as Duns Scotus and Thomas Aquinas.[2]

Mike_C
Mike_C
Reply to  Balkan Fanatic
1 month ago

Fanatic, I’m largely with you on the things you said above, but the “how many angels” issue wasn’t about is it 5, 15 or 33 angels for a given pin. It was really a debate about finite versus transfinite.

My theologically-naive interpretation is that it was trying to address whether there is necessarily a physical aspect to the divine. But I could be FOS on that.

Balkan Fanatic
Balkan Fanatic
Reply to  Balkan Fanatic
1 month ago

lol 7 minuses so far for a most simple factual statement
(I thought he meant Francis Bacon)
Number of dislikes grows faster than corona virus cases in NYC
If you do not agree you can respond with your arguments or simply ignore it
Likes and dislikes that is a typical female behavior

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Reply to  Chet Rollins
1 month ago

No, they don’t. Only progress exists.
And Progressivism has always been at war with Eurasia.

Progressivism has nothing to do with Christianity, and Marxism nothing to do with Judaism.

Keep up Comrades! Or else.

BadThinker
BadThinker
Reply to  Balkan Fanatic
1 month ago

Do you know nothing of history?

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Reply to  BadThinker
1 month ago

There is no history. There is only Progress. Of course The Dark Ages were Dark. Catholics were illiterate flat earthers. We can only read because of Islam. Progress like Zeus sprang from the head of Darwin. Before 1945 all was Darkness. White people give off evil rays that make others do bad things. There is no God. There is only science. Science tells us men are women, and the law tells women they are men. We are all one world. COVID will kill 6 million. Exactly, not one more or less. Our models are correct. That they are a fraction… Read more »

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Balkan Fanatic
1 month ago

Philosophical pluralism hardly obviates fanaticism. Plato had all of Democritus’ works destroyed. And I think I hardly need mention 20th-century Marxists.

tristan
tristan
Reply to  Balkan Fanatic
1 month ago

Hmm.. I am not sure the British experience with the Thugees in India, or the human sacrifice cult of the druids that the Romans took such pains to stamp out, or the mass human sacrifice of the various South American cultures really agree with that statement. But I suppose it depends on what you mean by fanatic?

james wilson
james wilson
Member
Reply to  Balkan Fanatic
1 month ago

Or, the Dark Ages were going to be dark regardless of who dominated life after the collapse of Rome. And, without that collapse and the subsequent dark age no enlightenment would have been left space to birth, and born in Chistianity it was. Not in an Islamic one, or Confucian, Hindu or Buddist, or Atheist. As a non-Christian I don’t feel the need to answer why that is, but facts are stubborn things. Even an Atheist must acknowledge Christianity did not stop the Enlightenment. What the Atheist cannot manage is to acknowledge is that he has ended the Enlightenment.

BTP
Member
Reply to  Balkan Fanatic
1 month ago

lol at the idea that the Greeks were unstained by fanaticism. You could try reading, literally, anything at all from them.

BadThinker
BadThinker
Reply to  Balkan Fanatic
1 month ago

Socrates would like a word.

james wilson
james wilson
Member
Reply to  BadThinker
1 month ago

Tocqueville–“It is doubtful whether Socrates and his school had very definite opinions upon what was to happen to man in the afterlife, but the one belief of which they were convinced, namely, that the soul has nothing in common with the body and would survive it, has been enough to give to Platonic philosophy this sort of sublime impetus which is its distinctive feature. On reading Plato, we see that many writers before and during his lifetime anticipated the doctrine of materialism These writers have not survived to our day or have only partially survived. The same is true for… Read more »

Al from da Nort
Al from da Nort
Reply to  Balkan Fanatic
1 month ago

Balkan; You are right about one thing, namely that Christianity is radically egalitarian. But you seem confused about how this works and what it means: To you. Personally. The true equality in Christianity is that all men (& women) are equally born into human sin and depravity and therefore are equally in need of God’s saving grace, which is equally available to all through accepting Jesus’ atoning sacrifice on the cross. And only through accepting it. We all equally can bring nothing to ‘the unfair exchange.’ But *anyone* can accept it by bringing an open hand, open heart and ‘bending… Read more »

Sperg Adjacent
Sperg Adjacent
1 month ago

A number of prominent thinkers have pointed out the danger of people who want to “help” you, because they will arrogate to themselves infinite power in their self-righteousness.

But I’ve always thought that they had the psychological causality backwards: namely, that the desire for infinite power comes first, and that the infinite number of crusades they cook up are essentially rationalizations after the fact.

Of course egalitarianism is the ultimate crusade to the power-hungry, as it will require infinite power to “correct” the infinite “violations” of inequality in nature.

Chet Rollins
Chet Rollins
Reply to  Sperg Adjacent
1 month ago

Indeed. Any attempt to make things more equal on principle is going to end with a far less equal society.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Chet Rollins
1 month ago

And a far poorer one…

Sperg Adjacent
Sperg Adjacent
Reply to  Sperg Adjacent
1 month ago

I had in mind some great quotes that I can’t track down by other guys, but Daniels/Dalrymple has a pretty sharp one:

“Committing evil for goodness’ sake satisfies the inner sadist and the inner moralist at the same time.”

Mike_C
Mike_C
Reply to  Sperg Adjacent
1 month ago

Damn, but that’s good.
Goes a long way to explain Barbara Lerner Spectre and her ilk. (Not all spectres are like that)

DLS
DLS
Reply to  Sperg Adjacent
1 month ago

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
~ C. S. Lewis

Sperg Adjacent
Sperg Adjacent
Reply to  DLS
1 month ago

Yeah, that’s one I was looking for, LOL.

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
1 month ago

Sorry, this post is not as coherent as usual. Be that as it may, Haladane (and Zman) are going to have to work a lot smarter to displace Hoffer’s model of fanaticism. In fact, I find it very suspicious that Hoffer’s name was left out of this post.

Zman, what are your thoughts on “The True Believer”? Which Archetype are you?

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  thezman
1 month ago

Well I am sorry to have bothered you then. I have read *all* of your posts, and remember seeing commenters mention Hoffer, but don’t remember you saying much in response.

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  thezman
1 month ago

I am like Johnny Mnemonic; I have to dump old memories to make room for new 🙂 Thanks for the search tip, I am re-reading the many Hoffer referencing posts 🙂

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  thezman
1 month ago

I think he made a good rough sketch of fanaticism. Like all models it obviously gets some things wrong. All theories about reality do.

tonaludatus
tonaludatus
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
1 month ago

“Remember that all models are wrong; the practical question is how wrong do they have to be to not be useful” by George Box & Norman R. Draper, Empirical Model-Building and Response Surfaces

tristan
tristan
Reply to  tonaludatus
1 month ago

Seems we are currently testing that statement.

BadThinker
BadThinker
Reply to  tonaludatus
1 month ago

There’s also a huge difference between *casual* models which attempt to imprecisely model some real process, and probabilistic models which don’t even bother trying. The second kind are far more suspect than the first.

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
1 month ago

What i like about TB is Hoffer lays out a comprehensive analysis of charismatic movements — and how all the different types (archetypes) of personality fit into the overall framework. The fanatic is only one component, and is only useful in the initial phase of the movement. It’s the founder of the movement that defines its nature, and the fanatics follow on after him.

TomA
TomA
1 month ago

I don’t understand the desire to expose yourself to narratives like that found in the National Review. It’s like smearing feces in your eyes. Why on Earth would anyone do such a thing? If you really want to be altruistic in service to others, then by all means, please counsel them that smearing feces in your eyes is a very bad thing that often leads to serious disease, and of course, blurry vision.

Sandmich
Sandmich
Reply to  TomA
1 month ago

He’s taking one for the team.

Barnard
Barnard
Reply to  TomA
1 month ago

National Review still has significant influence with Congressional and establishment Republicans. In the 2012 Presidential cycle, several candidates met with their editorial board in person, I think the number was smaller in 2016, but a few of them did then as well. They are fading, I think rather quickly now. It wouldn’t surprise me if they were no longer publishing by Election Day 2024.

tristan
tristan
Reply to  Barnard
1 month ago

I read that at first as “. In the 2012 Presidential cycle, several candidates met with their editorial board in prison”

The weird thing is it did not seem that jarring until I was further on in the sentence.

DLS
DLS
Reply to  Barnard
1 month ago

I suspect they survive with funding from deep pockets within Conservative, Inc., which needs an intellectual support structure for libertarianism.

WhereAreTheVikings
Member
Reply to  DLS
1 month ago

Probably still getting CIA money.

Polynikes
Polynikes
1 month ago

I’ve always been partial to this quote from TS Eliot which touches upon the same theme: “Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don’t mean to do harm; but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves.” Yes, the elites were scared, which ramped this way up. But also this was the “academic’s” and government “expert’s” time to shine. They never get to do much meaningful in… Read more »

tristan
tristan
Reply to  thezman
1 month ago

It seems to me that is why Globohomo has so few defectors in the upper ranks. No matter the destruction visited upon the west they generally believe that for your own good you must be cleansed and if it means grinding you, your familly, your culture and your history into the ground, they are prepared to make that sacrifice for you. I also wonder if this is also not some short circuit in the erotic zone of the brain as beyond a certain point the virtue signalling seems to have a distinct public orgiastic aspect to it. Maybe its some… Read more »

Marko
Marko
Reply to  tristan
1 month ago

Rand and her fanatics are giving Marx a run for his money

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  tristan
1 month ago

Tristan, the present system has a lot of nested, mutually-supporting and/or redundant feedback loops, silver or lead – rewards & punishments.

Multiple whistle-blowers from Faceberg’s Inner Party have already let the catwoman-suit out of the bag regarding Big Tech’s exploitation of our pleasure-tingle-wiring.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/09/facebook-sean-parker-vulnerability-brain-psychology

https://www.foxnews.com/tech/former-facebook-exec-wont-let-own-kids-use-social-media-says-its-destroying-how-society-works

tristan
tristan
Reply to  Exile
1 month ago

Working in that area I am well aware that nearly all social media is (designed?) oriented towards gamification and reward dependency (I know this even as I am typing this on here). The large companies spend a ton on this stuff. I was sort of thinking that as this sort of fanatic behavior always seems to have been with us (far back to the Essenes and before and showing up in waves though history) maybe its a genetic trait that becomes dominant in a population, rises up causes a mass conflict and then those people are killed off and it… Read more »

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  tristan
1 month ago

There’s a lot of interesting genuine psychology to examine in whether asceticism and celibacy in particular is really “channeled” or “re-directed” into fanaticism. So much of the existing research is agenda-driven (Wilhelm Reich-style “free-love = utopia” as well simply for Zuck’s shekels).

I’d love to see more research done in good faith, particularly in the de-programming/recovery aspect – getting guys & gals who are socially, sexually and psychologically dysfunctional due to porn or “online addiction” back on track, for instance.

There’s some smoke but how much fire, and what are the devilish details?

Al from da Nort
Al from da Nort
Reply to  tristan
1 month ago

tristan;
Re globohomo defection: There’s also the kompromat to keep them in line. What *did* happen to all of Epstein’s safe’s contents_?

And, no, he didn’t kill himself over the loss. Other stuff_? Possibly, IDK.

Jim Smith
Jim Smith
Reply to  thezman
1 month ago

Yes. This. Even after the imaginary sex crimes convictions of the 1980’s and ’90’s were overturned (especially after the coerced children recanted their own earlier testimonies), the leaders and purveyors of the manias (e.g. police investigator Robert Perez in Wenatchee, Washington) said “they’d do it all again” when offered chances to recent.

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Reply to  thezman
1 month ago

Z-“ To question the cause is to question their very existence.“

Which means?
Its like the Taliban; don’t look at them, they’ll kill you.

Which means; better be prepared to do just that, or run away.

Jim Smith
Jim Smith
Reply to  thezman
1 month ago

Zman said, “Fanatics are defined by their fanaticism. To question the cause is to question their very existence.” I wonder if this would have application to black people who fervently believe that all their problems are caused by white people and as a result intensely hate white people, feeling it’s with justification.

Bill_Mullins
Member
Reply to  thezman
1 month ago

Something MOST people do not understand about Judaism or Christianity is that the Creator NEVER required/requires blind obedience. I cannot remember the exact book, chapter and verse but the Jews were commanded to test whether or not what a prophet predicted came to pass. If it did then the prophet’s message was from the Creator. If not then the prophet spoke presumptively and was a false prophet. In the New Testament, Christians were command to look carefully at what was told them by someone claiming to have a revelation from the Creator to see if it was consistent with what… Read more »

Drake
Drake
Reply to  Polynikes
1 month ago

My residual paleo conservatism / libertarianism kicks into high alert whenever somebody from government wants to help me. They can help me by leaving me alone.

Wolf Barney
Wolf Barney
1 month ago

However this pandemic shakes out, the egalitarians aren’t going away. And they will continue to preach equality for all, except for Whitey, who will continue to be demonized and demoralized, maybe more than ever.

John Smith
John Smith
Member
1 month ago

Your atheist zealot is, of course, way out there where the buses don’t run. And you are a step behind as are the folks at the NRO. In the beginning there was God. We lived and died at His whims and word – if you won a battle, it was because God favoured you. If you lost, it was because He was punishing you. If you had a plague, it was because you had sinned. There was God’s Truth and nothing else. That put is in trouble with guys like Galileo and Capernicus who kicked off The Age Of Reason.… Read more »

Balkan Fanatic
Balkan Fanatic
Reply to  John Smith
1 month ago

If by God you mean Christian God (which I assume you do) before him were these things called Greece and Rome which incidentally happen to the pinnacles of our civilization The problem of The age of Reason is that great majority of men and the totality of women are neither reasonable nor rational It was Maistre who developed this idea most eloquently Pope, King and Executioner that was his holy trinity, the best humanity could hope for Heavily influenced by the carnage of French revolution, he failed to see the absence of the wholly trinity in Greece and Rome both… Read more »

John Smith
John Smith
Member
Reply to  Balkan Fanatic
1 month ago

I think you’ll find that most atheists have never even read a bible, much less studied it. I can understand and forgive those that struggle with classical Christian mythology because to be honest, I do too. Most militant atheists that I have seen are rebelling against the hypocrisy, the grift, and the carpet baggers that use and abuse the faith to their own ends. It amuses me that those exact same grifters and psychotic carpet baggers today pose as scientists. They’re essentially doing to science what their ancestors did to the church – undermining it and discrediting it. I look… Read more »

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  John Smith
1 month ago

John Smith, I didn’t find faith until I was tested, either. I wonder if that isn’t the whole point of modernity, with its baubles and conveniences— to keep people from being tested, because once you find faith, all of this looks ridiculous.

Idk, maybe that’s a teenage thought Mr. STEM didn’t have until his 30s

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Reply to  Balkan Fanatic
1 month ago

Are you really so sure of the canard that everything stopped for 1000 years until the Renaissance? That the Greeks and Romans were advanced societies but the Catholic Church came along and burnt the books, etc? You realize there were several Reformations and Renaissance’s starting in 11th century at the latest? That there was no “science” as we know it under the Greeks and Romans? That the entire methodology evolved from philosophy to natural theology to naturalism starting about the 12th century and took centuries to evolve? Not to mention to call the Royal Academy “Protestant” is to miss that… Read more »

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
1 month ago

Z you might want to read “Dominion” by honest yet professed atheist Tom Holland. Summary; Christianity and it’s radical idea that we all are made in the image and likeness of God – and hence are not meat to be sold at market, or summed into quant spreadsheets, etc – this is Christianity. Admittedly shorn of that pesky Sky God to hold us to account, but (Post Christ) Christianity nonetheless. There are reasons beyond spite the gays for instance relentlessly pursue the Church for its blessing. His case is comprehensive and persuasive. Your quarrel here begins with Pope Hildebrand, your… Read more »

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout

“This is not real, this is not really happening…
You bet your life it is, you bet your life it is…”
— Tori Amos, “Cornflake Girl”

KGB
KGB
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
1 month ago

I never imagined seeing Torrid Anus quoted on this site.

nailheadtom
1 month ago

There is one impetus for every religion, the regulation of sexual activity. All other aspects of any one religion are simply complications. The hereafter and immortality? Muslims, for instance, include an eternity of group sex for the true believer. Just as the state isn’t satisfied to steal wealth, insisting on outlining the legitimate parameters of all behavior, so it is with religion. Allowing the priesthood and its defenders to have the choice of nubile females is their foremost perogative. They also determine the rest of the social and economic relationships. The atheists reject this supernatural structure and currently replace it… Read more »

Sandmich
Sandmich
1 month ago

Egalitarianism is man’s greatest invention, a doomsday device we cannot disarm.
— Excellent, makes me wish I was in to putting bumper stickers on my car!

Exile
Exile
Member
1 month ago

“In fact, disaster, man-made or natural, is proof that egalitarianism is rooted in our biology, or at least in the biology of some.” In “Righteous Mind,” Haidt discusses this in the context of how & why our rational faculties developed – as tools of persuasion and rhetoric to spur group action and organization, not to “find truth.” The Dunbar-size bands of early man were hierarchical law-of-the-jungle pecking orders, with the baddest dudes usually on top. However, there were times when competing sub-groups would arise to overthrow Chief Grug the Feckless, Overly-Cruel or Luckless. The “betas” of the current order would… Read more »

Member
Reply to  Exile
1 month ago

So, as a righteously-riotous prole, with Pauline and Miseian sensibilities, am I to consider a paycheck protection SBA loan for my business (4 employees) to be my colonial stipend?

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  Libertymike
1 month ago

It’s not a stipend when you have to pay it back – with interest, no less. What’s the rate on those loans?

tristan
tristan
Reply to  Exile
1 month ago

Depends on whether you can show your vaccine passport and that of all your employees comrade.

Member
Reply to  Exile
1 month ago

I checked with 2 banks and they have no information.

The SBA has a simple 2 page form the upshot of which suggests that as long as the applicant has not defaulted on an SBA loan and none of the owners of the company are felons, a loan will be made.

Member
1 month ago

A significant chunk of atheists are at least as fanatical and intractable as a snake-handlin’, King James Bible totin’ Kentucky Primitive Baptist. They are somewhere in the same category as runners and vegans with assuming everyone wants to know they are atheists and why. Spoiler: we don’t care.

Forever Templar
Forever Templar
Member
Reply to  Arthur_Sido
1 month ago

Runners…? Seriously? Cyclists, I get because I am one and they can be douches, but…runners? Legit curious – what do they do that’s so obnoxious?

KGB
KGB
Reply to  Forever Templar
1 month ago

Sean, are “26.2” and “13.1” stickers common in Japan?

Mike_C
Mike_C
Reply to  KGB
1 month ago

I don’t have any (non-mandatory) stickers on my car, but I’ve been very tempted to get one that says “2.62” — note the decimal place location.

That said, in the annals of athletic douchebaggery, surely CrossFitters rank above runners. And cyclists. (I was going to say that roadie douchebaggery > off-road douchebaggery, but thinking back on my road and my dirt days, the total shitheadedness was conserved across branches of cycling, it just took different forms. And don’t get me started on the ‘cross purists….)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyil4IGAvVs

Member
Reply to  Mike_C
1 month ago

Here is Oregon there are only classes of people allowed to ride bikes. One is hobos and people who’ve lost their licence for repeated DUIs. You can usually tell these people by their lack of a helmet. The other is people showing just how devout they are in the climate change religion. If you work with these people they will make sure to let you know about just how much world-saving they do everyday weaving in and out of traffic. Some of them help you out if you’re a little slow by wearing their ultra-tight cycling clothes to work and… Read more »

Balkan Fanatic
Balkan Fanatic
Reply to  Arthur_Sido
1 month ago

In Soviet block during communism although the church and Christian religion were suppressed/marginalized they were not prosecuted to the point of being burned for their heresy
On the other hand no other dogma was tolerated In Christian domains
(Not even other Christian sects)
Look what happened to Huguenots in France as an example of fanaticism par excellence

tonaludatus
tonaludatus
Reply to  Balkan Fanatic
1 month ago

Heresy? From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Orthodox_Church “The sixth sector of the OGPU, led by Yevgeny Tuchkov, began aggressively arresting and executing bishops, priests, and devout worshippers, such as Metropolitan Veniamin in Petrograd in 1922 for refusing to accede to the demand to hand in church valuables (including sacred relics). In the time between 1927 and 1940, the number of Orthodox Churches in the Russian Republic fell from 29,584 to less than 500. Between 1917 and 1935, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested. Of these, 95,000 were put to death. Many thousands of victims of persecution became recognized in a special canon of saints known… Read more »

tristan
tristan
Reply to  tonaludatus
1 month ago

And we can add the French revolution to that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dechristianisation_of_France_during_the_French_Revolution

“By the end of the decade, approximately thirty thousand priests had been forced to leave France, and several hundred who did not leave were executed.[26] Most French parishes were left without the services of a priest and deprived of the sacraments. Any non-juring priest faced the guillotine or deportation to French Guiana.[1] By Easter 1794, few of France’s forty thousand churches remained open; many had been closed, sold, destroyed, or converted to other use

DLS
DLS
Reply to  Balkan Fanatic
1 month ago

And how did Christians fare in Mao’s atheistic China? And remember, quantity has a quality of its own.

Hun
Hun
Reply to  Balkan Fanatic
1 month ago

Not true. Monasteries were closed, many churches were demolished and many priests jailed or to sent to prison camps or forced labor. Only later have the commies realized that keeping a pacified church around helps with pacifying a segment of the populace too.

One of Many Georges
One of Many Georges
1 month ago

Getting egalitarianism classified as a mental disorder, and starting to pack people off to mental hospitals for it, would be the ultimate counter-Semitic move.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  One of Many Georges
1 month ago

Careful what you wish for. Religious belief was considered a mental illness in Soviet Union (good that they respected citizen’s rights and all…) 😀 and has come close to being defined so here in Der West but only when it’s a “disorder” of course.

Wolf Barney
Wolf Barney
1 month ago

Unfortunately that weird cargo cult of universal equality is now firmly entrenched as our ruling principle. And since it means a denial of racial differences, when blacks under-perform relative to whites, it means whites will exhaust wealth and energy in a hopeless and never-ending effort to bring blacks up to par with whites. It also means the continuing promotion of intermarriage and the continuing dispossession of whites from our home. It never ends, pandemic or not.

HomerB
HomerB
Reply to  Wolf Barney
1 month ago

Since the leftists made their #1 man, a guy that put into the public record, ““It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is”…. perhaps they can find room to open the term “men” to definition.

As in, “all men are created equal” ….

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
1 month ago

Here is the McHungus Theory of Fanaticism. The human brain responds to intensity, far more so than sustained elevated rates of feeling. In fact, under latter conditions, the ability to sense intense feelings is chemically dialed back. Hence diminishing returns for addicts. Now look at lab monkeys hitting the bar that (sometimes) dispenses cocaine into their brains 10k, 30k (somewhere in there) between hits. If given unlimited cocaine, they stop drinking water and eating. A fanatic is a junkie, always chasing that initial ecstatic moment (that made them a fanatic). Hence the increased violence as time goes on, and purity… Read more »

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Karl McHungus
1 month ago

Alternatively, not ecstasy but pain. Chasing the relief from pain the first hit gave, or pain not dealt with festering. Pain shrinks consciousness. Fanatics are wretched souls.

Tarstarkusz
Member
1 month ago

If there is anywhere in the world where the herd needs culling, it is Africa. In our desire to ease suffering, we have used our advanced agricultural techniques to end starvation in Africa and caused a population explosion that the Africans cannot possibly support without a lot of outside help. In our desire to end suffering we just ensured a much larger amount of suffering without indefinite ongoing support.

The kvetching and oy veying about the suffering should we ever stop feeding the Africans will be deafening.

Pop_rev
Pop_rev
Reply to  Tarstarkusz
1 month ago

The Green Revolution was a catastrophe. Population growth is pretty much stagnant everywhere except Africa and the Middle East, and without the Green Revolution the combined population of these two would probably have remained in the low couple hundred millions instead of the current billions. It’s easy to criticize the Green Revolution in hindsight, though, since it was undertaken at a time when some hunger and malnutrition was still present in the first world. Throughout history, whenever a people outgrew their territory, they migrated into neighboring territory for lebensraum. The Green Revolution, combined with the disorder fomented by the “intelligence… Read more »

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Pop_rev
1 month ago

Let’s not be too hard on previous generations. Remember this was in the mid-20th century, arguably the pinnacle of Western culture, if not necessarily technology: this was at least for the USA and allies, the recent triumph of the West in WWII, the clear superiority of the Western way, strong in economy and might, etc. There was so much optimism that sober people thought, for example, that other races could be made the equals of the White. Look at all the efforts in Africa to do so in their colonies. Much of this had faded by mid-century, but social movements… Read more »

WhereAreTheVikings
Member
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
1 month ago

Persisting into the Kissinger administration and its daft idea that it could control China once it midwived it into the 20th century.

Tarstarkusz
Member
Reply to  WhereAreTheVikings
1 month ago

Don’t forget the crime against what was left of American manufacturing that Bush junior committed letting them into the WTO.

The tribe had the idea that the Chinese were going to allow them into their society once they got done bleeding us dry. The Chinese have utterly rejected them.

Mike_C
Mike_C
Reply to  Tarstarkusz
1 month ago

“The Chinese have utterly rejected them.”
Which is why my tinfoil hat says that IF our current unpleasantness is not solely due to Chinese sloppiness (which is probably is) then it is not a coincidence that China is broken* over this, and Iran seems to have been hit especially hard. Who benefits most from these?

*yes, broken. Like a guy stabbed in the middle of a fight, China is still flailing about, but only because the brain hasn’t yet realized how badly the body’s been hurt.

Hun
Hun
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
1 month ago

You think the West has triumphed in WWII???

Mike_C
Mike_C
Reply to  Hun
1 month ago

That’s an interesting philosophical question now, innit? If big man Obongo subdues his opponents and thus gets first choice of the bushmeat and pombe*, who is the real winner? The lordly Obongo, or his tapeworm? Hmmmm.

*pombe – millet beer, as consumed in large swathes of SS Africa. The Wiki page on pombe has a photo of an African man in presumably traditional garb drinking his pombe through a straw. Fine, but for some reason Wiki selected a photo that features a little blonde girl (wearing a string of pearls, yet) in it.

tristan
tristan
Reply to  Tarstarkusz
1 month ago

The thing that brought that home for me was the quote to the effect that Africa was a continent with 100m people that can’t feed itself and after all the aid from the west is now a continent of 1.5 billion that can’t feed itself.

If you look at the population projections even earlier this century it was essentially flat from the 12th century until colonialism and then accelerated away due to foreign aid intenvention after that era ended.

King Tut
King Tut
Reply to  Tarstarkusz
1 month ago

I dearly wish we could divest ourselves of the responsibility to feed and clothe our African wards but, since they will never grow up, I wager that our burden will not be lifted any time soon. It looked for a while as if the white man’s burden was going to be assumed by the yellow man but I doubt they feel any sense of obligation in this regard. What’s Mandarin for “are there no workhouses?”. As long as the Ghost of Colonialism Past continues to rattle its chains around our salons, Tiny Tunde will get a turkey to eat at… Read more »

bilejones
Member
Reply to  King Tut
1 month ago

“It looked for a while as if the white man’s burden was going to be assumed by the yellow man but I doubt they feel any sense of obligation in this regard.”

It’s why the sudden resurgence of reparations and Antisemitism bullshit in the US,
It’s dawning on the parasites that the Hispanics in the US don’t give a shit about the Blacks and Jews and globally nor do the Han Chinese.
Gotta milk honkey while he’s still around.

Mike_C
Mike_C
Reply to  bilejones
1 month ago

Agreed.

Trust me, so far as the Chinese are concerned about MENA, sub-Saharan Africa, and Xinjiang, it’s “Sha Hui-ze, sha hou-ze” (=kill the Muslims, kill the monkeys*). And while there is some respect for Jews being “a scholarly people of great antiquity” (because the Chinese view themselves as a scholarly people of great antiquity), Holocaustianity leaves the Chinaman profoundly unmoved.

*The phrase is alliterative in both Mandarin and English. Bilingual skald-ery!

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  King Tut
1 month ago

What burden? Set them free!

Chiron
Chiron
1 month ago

“Haldane credited this to monotheism. If there is one god, then no people could be favored by one god over another.”

This is not how it works, jews and our ruling class believe that only their God is real and has favored the Tribe effectively making them the ruling elite of this world

Exile
Exile
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Reply to  Chiron
1 month ago

“Chosen” is the One Weird Trick that the Tribe uses to hack Christians and it still works very well. That’s a big reason why I’m skeptical of Christianity-first political dissidents. It takes a mighty re-working of the scriptures to un-Choose the Chosen, usually requiring an egaliatarian revolutionary Christ that strikes too many as the Commie version ala Liberation Theology.

TradChristians are on the horns of a dilemma unless and until they take upon themselves the responsibility of reinterpreting scripture and rejecting the dogma that’s Browning what’s left of the Church and ultimately killing it.

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Exile
1 month ago

Exile, my recent listening and readings of the scripture (this being Lent season), I have been doing so in light of perhaps Christianity being “owned” by the Old Testament people. That Christianity was perhaps not so much a “breaking away” or “seeing a new light” as instead a “capture”, which meshes nicely with your comment. Give those renegades some rope to hang themselves with…or maybe some nails, pieces of wood and a crown of thorns. Not to say that Christianity has not done a lot of good over the centuries for our kind and ours, but there is this weird… Read more »

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Reply to  Dutch
1 month ago

Dutch, one example was “The God Squad,” consisting of Rabbi Marc Gellman and Monsignor Tom Hartman.

One of my college profs, a liberal Protestant minister, proudly referred to himself as an “Ecumaniac.” He was the only Protestant in the Religious Studies department.

Exile
Exile
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Reply to  Dutch
1 month ago

Dutch, if I were the guy tasked with “de-Judaifying” Christianity today, I’d start by demonizing the Old Testament – nothing new there, it’s an old approach. Make it clear that Christ was a clean break and Jews killed him for it. As for the universalist rhetoric, we simply de-emphasize it and push it into the realm of far-future theological speculation (e.g. await the Second Coming for that) and/or be Talmudic with the definition of “mankind.” Lots of ways to skin that goat. It’s been done before and it can be again, but Christians have to take the first steps on… Read more »

Exile
Exile
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Reply to  Exile
1 month ago

InB4 someone says “but Scripture clearly says…”

Leviticus isn’t equivocal about sodomites and Timothy isn’t equivocal about headship and wahmens but modern Christianity is still cucked on both.

Check out this nugget of Xrl Talmudry re: “headship”

https://www.cbeinternational.org/resources/article/priscilla-papers/historian-looks-1-timothy-211-14