Way back in the olden thymes, conservatives during the Reagan years had a real fear that the Rockefeller Republicans would not only undermine the conservative agenda, but find a way to corrupt the Reagan administration. It was an unwarranted fear. Those Progressive Republicans were a dying force in politics. Reagan was a man of his age so his conservatism does not always make sense to the modern ear, but he stuck to his guns for the most part. He was a politician, so he compromised when he had to.
Then George H. W. Bush was ready to take the reigns of the movement and the party, despite being a Rockefeller Republican. Bush was a Progressive by any measure, but he supposedly got religion in the 1980’s, and to be fair, a lot of people went through that transformation. There were even old Jewish guys, who used to support communists, that were suddenly changing teams to join the new emerging majority. Bush spent a lot of time convincing the voters he was just like Reagan and they had nothing to fear.
The ’88 election was a landslide for Bush and a lot of sensible people thought that he would be the finishing touches to the new conservative majority. He would smooth out the rough patches and put a shine on other aspects to it. His famous pledge to never raise taxes was the cornerstone of his pitch. Wiser heads, the paleocons, saw what was coming, but most did not. That’s why when Bush broke his promise, a year into his presidency, his voters were crushed. Bush was a liar.
History is written by the victors and that means the Left, so we’re always told that Bush lost in ’92 because Clinton was sent by the void where God once existed, to bring joy and bliss to the blessed and smite the wicked. The truth is, Bush lost because the core of his voters rightly saw him as a liar and a fink. Many people I know, including myself, voted third party as a protest. Yeah, it meant a degenerate would win the election, but at least we knew what we were getting. Liars like Bush always find new ways to screw you.
Unless you have been in a cave, you know where this is heading. Trump won the nomination and the presidency on one core issue. He would be the President of the United Sates, not the President of the world. That was his line. He repeated it often. It allegedly captured his one core belief. What is good for America is what is good for Americans and the government should always be working to further the interest of Americans, over the interests of foreigners.
The fact that something so obvious and sane has to be explained speaks to the the degeneracy of our age. But, we live in a time when we have to debate physical reality with people who insist things like biology and math are a plot by a mystery cult of white men to keep down women and non-whites. Still, Trump running on a platform of rationality, and winning on the platform, gave a lot of people, including me, a spark of hope. Maybe what comes next does not have to be what always comes next.
Yesterday, the alt-right and even many seasoned geezers like me took a body blow when Trump abandoned everything he said over the last two years and embraced the idiocy of yet another war in the Middle East. Not only is he embracing the lunacy of the traitorous neocons, he is risking war with Russia. His “reason” for condemning himself to ruin is that his daughter got the sads over seeing pictures of dead kids in Syria. She takes to twitter over this latest agit-prop and in a day daddy is launching missiles at Assad.
The United States has no interest in Syria. There are no good guys to back. There’s no “solution” to what ails that part of the world, short of another flood. Syria is a mess because it is full of Syrians. The only sane policy is to make sure it remains full of Syrians. Let them kill each other there, not in Paris or Portland. If the Russians want to build their pipeline there and pay the price for it, good for them. If the Saudis want to stop them, best of luck with it. This is not an American problem. It is their problem. Let them own it.
This brings us back to Bush. He spent the remainder of his presidency trying to rebuild his standing with conservatives. He even scored what was pitched as a stunning victory in the First Gulf War. But, you only get one shot to piss away your integrity and Bush did not miss that opportunity. He entered the general election as a weak incumbent and Clinton used his broken pledge in commercials to remind everyone that Bush was an untrustworthy liar. Imagine that. Clinton beat Bush on the integrity issue.
It’s not too late for Trump. This may be one of those times where a President learns that his advisers are not politicians for a reason. They lack political sense. Trump does have a habit of learning quickly from his errors. That’s not the way to bet. He is now getting tongue-kissed by the Establishment. Like all men with out-sized egos, vanity is his greatest weakness. If Trump is enjoying the praise from his adoption of the “invade the world” position, imagine what happens when he accepts the “invite the world” half.
Maybe Trump recovers and avoids the fate Bush I, but I have my doubts.
The fucker sold out the American people for the Zionists.
End of story.
War, war war and now more war. Innocent men, women and children in 7 sovereign nations are being blow away by a wicked nation whose people can’t even find them on a map. And we call ourselves Christians? I’d like to ask them, ‘What would Jesus do?’, but by now their attention span has expired.
‘Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.’ Proverbs 16:18
Hope you were wearing a parachute when you made that gigantic leap. DT did not “enter ” another ME war. He sent a msg that America was back and that there will be a bitch of a payback if you try to play Hitler lite by gassing civilians. That’s all.
I notice a lot of people hoping we don’t get “more involved” in Syria. Now I have no idea what Trump is doing. I feel a little better since I found out that the strike was much ado about nothing but…the US has a base IN Syria. The US has a base with artillery and Stryker fighting vehicles. Stryker’s are not know for their impenetrable armor but for speed. Much better for attack. If the base was for defense you would expect a slower more armored vehicle. Why do we have a base in Syria? Couldn’t we defend from a base in Iraq? I don’t what this means but it doesn’t look good.
the problem in Syria and the rest of the middle eastern muslim countries is that there is no good guy. if assad did in fact gas his own citizens, do you think the rebels would do anything different? deposing assad is not going to improve life for Syrian citizens. we deposed two horrible governments in Afghanistan and Iraq. what good did it do, the people want those horrible governments back. we need to remove our military from the middle east, let them work it out for themselves. we have lost enough American lives and money trying to win the “hearts and minds” of these people. it ain’t ever going to happen.
Given Trump’s uncanny knack of having the right answer, I find it curious that he went through this exercise, which was so devoid of substance. I wonder if it was either meant to blow the Russia stuff away or to send China and North Korea a message. I haven’t given up hope yet, but I wasn’t thrilled by what happened.
I doubt very much that Trump will not do it again. He’s receiving all that positive reinforcement, and he may be vain enough to believe that he can win over the neocons and “progressives”, too, which would make his life much more pleasant. There are more than 45 months remaining in what is almost certain to be his only term. That’s too much time for a blustering guy like Trump not to play Risk with the military, and we can only guess at the scandals that will erupt or be manufactured by the left. The scandals will require diversions, as Bill Clinton learned.
Out here in reality, people will be thinking about what a bold president could have done after telling his sad daughter to sit down and shut up. For example, it would have been easy and fun for Trump to challenge all the warmongers in Congress by demanding that they declare war on Syria. He could have announced that he’ll be making a list of all the blowhards who are screaming for action so that he can compare the names on it to the list of people who fail to follow through with a declaration of war. Upon an ally of Russia.
The usual suspects would have exploded in righteous rage and howled even more loudly for articles of impeachment, thus making their Russophobic selves look even more ridiculous. Meanwhile Trump could have appealed to his supporters to make life into a living hell for every warmonger, esp. those who are too cowardly to follow through with the declaration of war. Upon an ally of Russia.
But no. Trump is bold like an oily businessman, not bold like a skillful warrior.
So Trump and the GOP are virtually finished. His enemies want him gone whether he fires cruise missiles for kids or not. Millions of people who might have continued to vote will give up on this pernicious empire and its bipartisan mafia. Then the GOP loses the Senate in 2018 and the WH in 2020. And the empire tears itself into pieces during the following 30 years or so. Or is destroyed by a coalition of Asians who decide that the American gangsters and precious Israel must be expelled from the Asians’ hemisphere before Lady Liberty kills tens of millions more and enslaves the rest.
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Thank you; spot on. Very disconcerting. The vanity weakness is a real issue, and the tongue kissing is really shocking. Not giving up hope yet, but yikes.
Did ya’ll expect that you’d love every last thing he does/ did?
He can’t ignore the wheels turning in rest of the world, thats a big part of the job. Still, he needs to make sure his actions in that sphere are for the good of the American people and not decided by or for the exculsive good of the global cloud neo con people.
On balance this Syrian intervention has more benefits than costs for him. Punishing the out of bounds actions in a limited and measured way helps make other prolems less difficult.
PS Reagan wasn’t perfect, just really near to it.
Although, that said, the deranged Dems probably think Trump & Putin colluded and set this up so Trump could do a quick hit, distinguish himself from the ever-vacillating & speechifying non-entity Obama, plus appearing to provoke Putin, over which they cackle in a late night phone call. LOL It’s so excellent how the Democrats have become a deep-satire buffoonish caricature of a political party. The media meanwhile has irretrievably discredited itself. By this view there won’t be a repeat gas attack b/c this served its purpose. Sometimes it does seem like so much that happens in the Middle East occurs only to provoke a reaction elsewhere.
pretty naive look at things, both in the post and the comments. everything is about trump and what he said or did not say during the election cycle. now, i am not a native english speaker but from what i can see on tv and newspapers it is pretty obvious who trumps administration holds responsible for this attack – hesbollah and iran. also from the russian and syrian response it is clear (at least to me) that they understood the message.
also, general statements on the campaign trail should not be taken literally. trump has adopted james mattis strategy, there is a lot of info online like in this video:
https://youtu.be/SCD5zHBNWG8
pretty consistent policy imho
What happens when there’s another gas attack, whether by Assad’s forces or anti-Assad rebels? We have to grow a spine and stop knee-jerk reactions whenever Muslims resume killing & gassing & torturing & beheading each other. We should encourage it. When there’s another attack either Trump sends in more missiles and inches closer to a quagmire, or he hangs back & is labelled the new Soetoro, weak & vacillating.
I share your concerns and think this was a mistake; that said, I think this smacks less of revanchist neo-con reassertion of power and more of “Scowcroftian” realpolitik. More GHB than GWB.
“And though Russia was the big power most directly challenged by the strike, Putin was perhaps not even the primary intended recipient of the message.” – Walter Russell Mead
My thoughts, too. a well-planned, calibrated demonstration of US willingness to pursue military options. Rather than this being an impulsive act, I think Mattis, viewing Obama’s strategic retreat, as a threat to US security, has likely been looking for some causi belli for reasserting US willingness to use military force. I don’t think I agree with the direction but I see the logic.
I refer anyone here to Victor Davis Hanson’s article:
http://victorhanson.com/wordpress/ancient-laws-modern-wars/#more-10070
There is some perspective written in the article that I find lacking in many of the comments here.
Good GOD Almighty…why do we have to keep going thru this shit?! Unbelieveable. F*** politicians! Fence off DC, no one in or out, better yet nuke it…move the capital to Omaha and start over!
I have high hopes that Trump has read and accepted Derbyshire’s thoughts on boots on the ground war in the mid-East (bad) as opposed to gunboat diplomacy with Mid-East powers. (good)
“We’ll ignore you until you seriously annoy us and then we’ll blow up some stuff and kill a bunch of you at no risk to ourselves, and we’ll do it often. We consider looking oddly at one of our people to be seriously annoying. We consider killing one of us or stealing our stuff to be vastly annoying, repayable at the rate of 100,000 to one. Do you like those odds?”
I can dream, can’t I?
Trump said repeatedly during the campaign that he would destroy ISIS. He said it again after the election and again after he was inaugurated. These are not the words of someone intent on avoiding the morass of the ME. I never thought he had any plan to do this, and still don’t. He was giving voice to something we all wish for, the destruction of evil. Whoever was behind the chemical attack in Syria, it was pure evil. Trump saw an opportunity to strike at it and did. He is unpredictable and he has balls, which I like. There are forces of darkness abroad on the planet. I don’t think it’s a bad thing to give them pause once in a while.
Strange though, since this action of Trump’s aided ISIS.
“Strange though, since this action of Trump’s aided ISIS.”
Given the snarled mess of warring factions in the Middle East, could you clarify how dropping ordnance on an airfield aids ISIS?
Thank you
What baffles me is the lack of damage, sure a few old hangers got bombed and some antique Mig 23’s got wrecked. But that’s about it.
Even more odd is that no one is talking about the 2nd airbase hit. It seems to have vanished from public discussion. Even RT doesn’t say anything about it.
Something is fishy about this strike.
You got a point there Rod. I noticed similar things. Something is not right about the visuals and the way it was orchastrated. It’s almost like all those platforms that launched CM’s where pre-positioned. Not for nothing that was some unusually quick targeting and the cross border authority required to fire missiles across a sovereign border was already in place.
Maybe we got it all wrong, maybe it is an ingenious false flag of an entirely different color?
What if that airbase was chosen as a decoy because it is basically unused by Assad?
What if it is a co-ordinated bait and switch between the Russia and America and associated allies to flush certain actors out of cover to make it easier to take out?
Obama used Bush’s 9/11 congressional use of force agreement as a blank check for a lot of little wars to reshape the Middle East. Baller move for the Nobel Peace Prize president. He tried to escalate to a war in Syria and the US citizens, Left, Right and middle, stood up and screamed NO! Syria was perceived as one step too far and the war weary US citizens clearly were not going to allow it. There was no public support for a suicidal war in Syria that would draw in the Russians. That lunacy was stopped dead in its tracks and the globalist warmongers lost that round. Now, suddenly there is public support for Trump, the president who ran on Middle East disengagement, to bomb a Syrian air base as the opening salvo in yet another senseless US war in the Middle East that will only make US citizens more at risk of terrorism.
The pictures of the chemical weapons aftermath reminds me of the run up to the Iraq War. Post-9/11, most Americans were sporting for a fight, but even deep within the blood lust, we weren’t understanding the logic of invading and occupying Iraq because a handful of Saudis hijacked some planes and killed 3000 Americans. The war drums were being banged hard but the sound was hollow and flat. Then there was suddenly a video of a dog in a Plexiglas box being gassed to death in what was purported to be al Qaeda testing chemical weapons. OMG they killed a dog. Attack! Attack! Attack! This was the Gas The Dog edition of wag the dog. Public opinion is so easily swayed toward war. I guess the powers that be decided that most Americans were dead set against the obviously stupid Syrian war, so they upped the ante with a Gas The Children edition of wag the dog.
America’s Homework Assignment: Listen to the Tatiana Moroz cover of Bob Dylan’s Masters of War. It’s on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxxcqXSx2dQ
It is impossible for a US President to avoid making some warlike gestures in the Middle East. The question is, how hard and with how many appendages will Trump grab that Tar Baby.
He ran on domestic issues; let’s see what he does with those before bailing.
I’m not giving up on Trump until I see a realistic alternative to him that I like better. By that I mean, a live human who can win an election as opposed to a walking laundry list of slogans and theoretical ideals.
Well it certainly isn’t “America First”, it’s war profiteering and big daddy war bucks first way I see it.
A bit early to say for certain,
A bit early? Are you sure about that?
https://mtntopforge.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/tanks-at-waco.jpg?w=696
Possibly Doug. While I was rather shocked when I heard the news, I do know this much. Pres. Trump is a different animal cut out of a different cloth than other politicians. Because he is a first of sorts, a businessman primarily, I am hoping he has a bigger game at play here than our typical ass-wipe politicians who really are one-trick ponies.
I think Fuel Filter is spot on. Too much that doesn’t fit. And Trump is not a fool although many like to think him one. No, I have to believe he has other motives at play.
Speaking of ass-wipe polticians, I bet our current government hasn’t worked so hard in ages. For or against Trump, he has been putting them through quite a par-course of events and just when they think they have time to catch their breath, he starts another round of stuff. Great fun in a way!
I agree with everyones point of view, it’s all good, and it’s seriously engaged, your’s to LP.
I just have this gut feeling something doesn’t add up. I’m trying to zero in on it, but man, there are so many variables and unknowns, unknown unknowns also.
As Patrick Henry said, I smell a Rat. Lord knows there’s enough Rat’s involved.
Not for nothing, Trump, he nuked realpolitik in his election bid. The guy gas lighted a global 5th column media complex, he motivated the dirt people like ain’t been seen since RR won.
Pardon my french, but WTF! is going on here?
Seriously No matter how I slice it, every time I come up with the same sneaking doubts and gauge but consistence results in my head. The only thing that makes sense other than we all who gave the guy our consent and he screwed the pooch on us, is this is a multi megaton gaslight operation designed to flush out the actors and operatives at the core of the deep state.
Only those two conclusions make sense using what I got for the intelligence I’ve garnered across the web and current evidence presented to work with.
I don’t think, I would eat my hat, if the guy was dumb enough to fall for the false flag ruse it looks like, he is simply not that gullible.
No, something else is cooking here.
And I appreciate what your saying also, believe me, before responding to your observations I included what your saying in my reasoning.
You can’t leave anything out of the equation with stuff like this. An equation that has everything in common with a myriad of false flag/crisis as a means. it doesn’t pass the sniff test. It’s like Fast&Furious, Oklahoma City, The Bundy Ranch and the Burns Oregon event and murder of LeVoy Finnicum, Ruby Ridge, Waco, Benghazi, Libya, even Pizzagate, they all have the odorous taint in common of just too convenient, of that plausible deniability, that common sense tells you something is too pat and the kind of missing puzzle pieces consequences of a legitimate event can only have.
See what I’m saying here?
To give Trump the benefit of the doubt, those missing nuances, might be because it is an op run to flush out operatives and reveal actors that need to be got rid of, because doing it in this manner their tendencies and alliances would be impossible to hide or fake.
You need some serious trust and compartmentalization on orders of magnitude of the people involved to keep the targets from suspecting they are being played.
Make sense?
Or it is a statement to Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea, but done so in a way that lets them know the score without their losing face?
It is the same idea as finding your spot in middle school not by beating up the toughest kid on the playground, and then risk getting jumped by his buddies soon after. Instead, you observe who is a hanger-on to the tough guys (who they don’t really care about), and beating the poor sap to a pulp. Message sent, high place in the pecking order earned, and no one loses face or gets his nose broken, other than the poor guy who wasn’t who he thought he was. That was Syria. Now North Korea and Iran have to wonder if they are two more members of the tough guy club, in the eyes of China and Russia, or two more saps. For Putin’s and Xi’s part, do they want to go to the mat for Iran and North Korea? Or can they throw them over the side and still keep their places in the world?
I sense that Syria was round one, North Korea is round two, and Iran will be round three. Keeping the world leaders not-quite-sure whether or not you are an impulsive lunatic has some value. But it is a ballsy move, and you are toast if you don’t make it work. Of course, Putin and Xi could be in on it, and there is a new triumvirate in town, with two “good” cops and one “bad” cop. I’ve got to believe Trump is no dummy, and is not folding now. There is more to this.
“It is impossible for a US President to avoid making some warlike gestures in the Middle East.”
Not when there is still oil and gas left in the ground, at any rate. But a president with cojones could avoid it. Trump just demonstrated he’s as easy to scam as a girl in high school. Quite an accomplishment.
In light of the recent renaissance of oil production technology and resource finds in the USA and world outside of the Middle East, could you update the rationale behind “it’s about the oil”?
Thank you.
I posted this on CTH and got some massive blowback. Now Sundance is twisting himself into pretzels trying as hard as he can to justify this crap. And his legion of “Born-Agains” are buying every jot and tittle of this shit sandwich.
Just two days ago he was warning *NOT* to get involved. Now, a quick about-face to “Trump Can Do No Wrong!!!” bullshit.
So here’s my post:
*****
Trump has succumbed to the siren cry of the RINOs, Neo-Cons and Globalists on this one.
We have absolutely NO business getting involved in ANY ME conflict, unless there is a direct attack on Americans.
Note that the first tweet of “medical” personnel treating the supposed Sarin victims shows them with plain old dust masks and gloves. I call BS. This was PallyWood stuff.
One drop of Sarin on your skin or droplet inhaled and you are toast. Within minutes. Full Stop. Period.
Now, note how AQ, Al-Nusra and other terrorist scumbags are praising this to Allah (pig’s blood be upon him).
Tell me: Who else in the ME (besides Israel) protects it’s Christian population? Assad. They are 10% of his population.
This is a tar baby all ’round and has possibly poisoned our budding relationship with Russia to boot.
And to the many that think Trump can do no wrong, get over yourselves and try to be more objective.
This was a massive error on Trump’s part. Slippery slope indeed. I hope to God he doesn’t repeat it.
*****
And I got excoriated for that simple post.
Fuck Him and his “Evangelical Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammo” camp followers.
MAGA?
Looks like MABA to me, (Make America Belligerent Again)
You can’t take back a boolit, anymore than you can take back cruise missiles.
The question for me is are we seeing a Trump carefully hid from us or are we seeing the Neo-cons in control of foreign intanglements? Either of which is not good. Either of which I seriously doubt many of us voted for.
No matter what anyone says, us dirt people, the crux of us Men of The West, have an absolute and ultimate stake in what these actors are doing, but even more important is we again, have no say in the matter, our will as governed doesn’t exist when those we entrust with protecting and defending our liberty ignore the liberty of a sovereign nation and it’s people. If Trump does not grasp the penultimate concept Liberty is an all or nothing thing, he and his administration is no better than the last, or the regime we as free men voted against replacing the last regime. By liberty being an all or nothing thing, I’m saying, you can not defend and protect Liberty, never mind advocate it when you violate, pick and choose, who has it and who doesn’t. That is tyranny, no matter how it is dressed up, or, those sovereign peoples and their ideals notwithstanding.
Thing is Trump is one man, but the reality he is surrounded by other men, whose agenda and motives are suspect. It begs the question, where does such a breech of the primal and God given primal rights of liberty and freedom end?
Such men who violate such precepts are renown and are unlimited in their actions as we witness daily. I think it is an understatement to contend we did not vote for this. What is to stop such men from bringing what they have done to our doors and crossing our thresholds in our lives and freedoms, if the one whose sole duty, his only job, is to represent, defend, and protect the laws, interests, ideals, and yes, liberty, of us Men of The West?
It is clear to me, these things do not end well, they are slippery slopes. It is one thing to see and know 1st hand a usurper exists, that the usurper has conned and swindled enough of the people through conscious deliberate allusions and dissimulations to attain the highest office. It is quite another thing to violate the trust clearly and resoundingly asked for in return for protecting ones primal freedoms and happiness.
Attacking Syria, is not America first. It is ultimately and deeply America last, oligarchy before all. Syria did not attack or threaten you or I, we faced no existential, or even far off threat to our selves and country. But those with power and monied interests are threatened with loss, or inability to acquire more money and more power with the secular, sovereign state of Syria and it’s self determination in their way.
The reality is that is not what Trumps sees or motivates him to action, or circumspection and prudence. Even if it is well intended. In fact if good intentions is what decided the issue to act, and it is the act that counts, Trump is a fool and a dangerous one at that to Men of The West.
Yes, “The forgotten men and women… are forgotten yet again.”
In words that are not adequate to the task, I’m just about had a craw full of being forgotten, and it is not just myself I’m speaking of.
This entire republic, regardless of it’s warts and troubles, is predicated on the simplest of concepts, Will of The Governed. It’s health as a functioning rational system of government is entirely dependent upon that idea and single overriding principle.
What is so incredibly difficult about that truth and what it entails.
It certainly is easy for the sonofabitches to act in the name of the will of the influential, the will of the political elite, the will of the monied interests, but NO! The will of the governed is like a third rail to these fuckers.
I’m telling you, there is nothing more dangerous to these idiots, their regimes and organized crime syndicates than the will of the governed. Nothing else is as existential a danger, there are no enemies of their rackets greater. Not Russia, the Norks, China what have you.
Because one day one of us governed, us dirt people is going to say thats it, and he or she is going commit an act of defiance and revolt, something that triggers an avalanche, and its on.
Trump was the last chance for peaceful redress of the absence of will of the governed. And before the ink was barely dry on his oath of office, he does the very thing that us dirt people abhor more than anything, ties in with the very actors that us dirt people want no part of or who we condone in action and agenda.
This was over at Free North Carolina today:
-Channeling my inner Major Gen Smedly Butler, USMC and Medal of Honor recipient “war is a racket.”
The long-running Syrian “civil war” and today’s Cruise Missile strike by the US is a classic case of “who benefits?”
“They*” (I’ll explain further along who “they” are) have been itching for an excuse, any excuse for years now. Here is the latest of several attempts at justifying the removal of Assad in Syria.
The excuse.
– Assad’s AF bombs an ISIS weapons depot.
– ISIS chemical weapons are released, killing civilians.
– Assad is accused of a chemical weapons attack.
– The US (ever the sucker) blows the crap out of Assad’s AF base with cruise missiles.
The reason.
– Nope, it’s not the one you hear from the lying MSM.
– It’s because “someone” wants to build a pipeline right across Syria, and Assad is in the way. [read: money, lots of money; the cause of most wars]
The facts of the matter.
– There would not be a Syrian “civil war” or any “refugees” from Syria had there not been discovered a HUGE new gas field near Lebanon-Israel-Syria-Cyprus in 2009.
– The “Europe Natural Gas Pipeline Project” aka the “Qatar-Turkey Pipeline” is worth a lot of money for many years to come.
– The Turks would very much like to ‘see’ Assad gone, and the Syrian chapter of the Muslim Brotherhood installed.
[Remember Barry’s love affair with the Muslim Brotherhood? How about Hillary’s love affair with Huma Abedin, princess of the Muslim Brotherhood? Are you connecting any dots yet?]
The Turks are Muslims. The Muslim Brotherhood are Muslims. They are assholes (just like Barry, Hillary, and Huma are), but the US is an even bigger asshole for being their dupe and proxy.
–rico
-from https://freenorthcarolina.blogspot.com/2017/04/syria-cui-bono.html
It’s all turned to custard. And it all seems to be of Trump’s doing rather than anybody conspiring to bring him down. I hate that his daughter and her reptile husband are all up in this. This Syria nonsense on what will turn out to be a propaganda video.
I really thought a man like DJT who battled through so much adversity to get to win the election would genuinely deliver to his supporters.
I expected a barrage of 59 Tomahawks at $1.59 million a piece to do a lot more damage on the ground, not just char a bit of desert, the attack cost the Defense Department $93,810,000 which seems like a rather bad return on investment to me, good enough for a stunt tho, it would also explain why “the US gave advance warning of the missile strike to Russia, which gave the Syrian military some time to move most of its assets to another base.” the Pentagon has confirmed.
Maybe it’s 3D chess after all!
As I see it, Trump, his sad daughter, some admirals, et al. stole about $94m of military hardware from inventory and used it for their own personal project.
Arrest them, prosecute them, convict them, lock them up, throw away the key. Or execute them.
I don’t know how all this will turn out but DJT doing the opposite of BHO seems ok. And I’m enjoying the liberal media trying spin something they wanted and got into something bad. That’s pretty funny.
This is one case where BHO got it right and Trump got it wrong. Just because they did the opposite is not necessarily an endorsement for Trump.
My distress meter is at the same level now that it was after the Roman salutes at NPI.
Well said and a whole lot more. Appreciate you Z for saying all that.
To add another voice to the chorus, I’ll trade a Middle Eastern folly for an end to birthright citizenship, call it the metaphorical wall, if you will. A failure on both invade and invite will lead to a dangerously large piece of America’s core withdrawing from any sense of civic duty. This mule will stop dead in its tracks and drop its load. I’ll owe nothing to nobody, it will be just me and mine. Was that the proposition they had in mind for the nation?
President Trump lost something with me last night. A good way to regain that lost trust would be to drain the swamp of family member “advisors” in high places within the White House.
I didn’t vote for Ivanka, her husband or any other member of the Trump family to run this country for 4 years.
Otherwise, perhaps the “Art of the Deal” Trump has been schooled by the RINO’s on how it works in politics. John McLame and the Warlocks may have told him he needed to do this in order to get their support for domestic things he wants to do.
Ivanka was supposed to run the Trump Company, and her husband is now some expert on All Worldly Affairs from a resume of what? NYC Democrat Jew?
Then just invite Chucky Scummer into the WH to help Trump. I would say LOL but at this rate Hilarity may get a job in the Trump Administration in 2 years.
Today’s Conservative-Libertarian-America Firsters have now adopted the 60’s Anti-War/Anti-Feral Gov. policy, while the 60’s Hippies somehow became ProgreSSive NWO & NeoCon Warmongers and Domestic Tyrants.
YinYang, Peace is Out Foreign and Domestic, CYA
Come on! We just get rid of Obozo, Jarrett, Moochell, Lynch, well, the worst fucking bunch of socialist moosy loving assbites in American history and you’re really complaining about Trump’s family support? Really??
Does it bother you that Hillary is coming out of the woods again just when Obama and the rest of his crew are lawyering up and hiding out hoping that world events will make everyone forget them? Don’t forget the Fed Budget runs out in just a few days! That should keep things frosty for awhile. Too many other things to list and you are worried about his family members influencing him. Maybe you also worried about BJ Clintons bimbo’s and what kind of after sex talks they would have about “work at the office?”
Geez, go find something to do with your free time.
Old Bush would still have won but for H Ross Perot.
Hard to tell – I was die-hard Republican back then and no way was I voting for that asshole. If Ross Perot didn’t exist I would have written in Pete DuPont.
Due to a decade plus of neocon lies and wars, my desire to entertain additional bad advice/disinformation hovered around zero at the time IS/ISIS was being marketed as the new Hitler by the MSM. It was everywhere….Christians were trapped on mountains facing slaughter…they were going to take over the entire region. There was even one very odd Friday press conference in DC where an official claimed that 9/11 scale attacks were imminent in the US as ISIS militants had crossed the border from Mexico. It was never mentioned again.
Then John McCain went to Syria to meet with “moderate rebels/freedom fighters”. Several of the men he took to Aleppo’s Olin Mills studio for group portraits have been confirmed as ISIS militants. Perhaps my internet was down on the magical day that the narrative swapped 180 degrees. But I have never seen any explanation from our betters as to how Assad became satan and ISIS “ain’t so bad after all goyim”. The deep state/neocons won’t come right out and admit that we, and “our greatest ally”, are funding/supplying/etc ISIS but the info is easy enough to find. Amazing how controlled the news is that this contradiction is never mentioned.
I find that following the trail of bs that the two senators from Tel Aviv (McCain/Graham) spew gives one ample perspective on future machinations. It would be bad enough if “America’s foreign policy was predicated solely on the question of what is most in Israel’s interests”, but as the “refugee crisis” shows, the tribe isn’t content to shamelessly exploit our blood and treasure to pursue “Greater Israel”, they have to get a “two-fer” and scheme to destroy White nations in the process.
As someone who has had responsibility for troop training for WMD defense during the Cold War (and hence some, thankfully theoretical, knowledge of the subject). this attack has a number of false flag indicators. None of these indicators is dispositive but they are also consistent with ISIS being behind a WMD attack on one single village, either genuine or simulated. Evidence:
– Some of the symptoms demonstrated on camera by the apparently tragically dying casualties are entirely consistent with the claimed Nerve Agent GB (aka Sarin) but are all voluntary nerve controlled (twitching & lolling head). GB is not a choking agent yet some appear to choke. And the involuntary nerve controlled symptoms that cannot be faked (e.g. complete pupil dilation and loss of urinary and bowel control) are not so evident in the footage, though this could happen shortly after filming stopped.
– The casualties are apparently all civilian, mostly children: No ‘fighter’ casualties are shown, in or out of uniform, though they might exist: So a not well-guarded target. We don’t know whose side, if any, the village was on: There are so many.
– The casualties are few in number (for a WMD attack) suggesting a single point release, if real, such as can be done any number of ways, some not requiring anything more technically complex than hand delivery, either surreptitious via delayed action bomb or overt via suicide bomber. No aircraft or artillery need be involved, thought they might be.
– Reports are that the attack began with a loud explosion in a bakery, consistent with any of the above. Yet high explosives are not used in WMD attack because they tend to burn up and over-scatter the agent (GB is actually a liquid with a deadly vapor stage, when concentrated). So only enough low-velocity explosive to break the munition casing is used. Everybody working on the ‘supply side’ knows this but ISIS may not.
– Agent GB is both highly toxic and persistent, usually for days, yet the responders and camera crew show no care for their own protection nor any knowledge of WMD response. They are wearing absorptive hoodies, not even a repellant painter’s suit, and no gloves or mask for some of them. Yet skin contact with a 3 – 5 mm drop of liquid GB is fatal: Or inhalation of the vapor from one. Their filmed decontamination efforts are useless at best, dangerous to both victims and responders. Two possibilities: They are extremely careless and stupid or purposeful frauds.
– The Islamists have a long history of creating fake atrocities for the ‘benefit’ of credulous Western reporters, particularly but not exclusively contra the Israeli’s during the many and various intifadas, particularly on the Syrian front, IIRC.
– Cui Bono_? Tillerson just said the other day that Assad’s leaving was not completely necessary. So he might be slipping off the hook. Then this attack happens right after. It doesn’t much help Assad but most benefits ISIS, who are clearly capable of poisoning a few dozens of (likely) hostile civilians for momentary advantage using the nerve agents they have claimed to possess. It divides their various enemies’ backers (US & Russia), induces injury to their near enemy who seems ascendent (Assad) and inspires fear in their other near enemies (the various other Sunni militias).
And, contra all points above, Assad really could be so stupid. A rogue act by a few subordinates is pretty unlikely since WMD storage and handling is dangerous and any storage bunkers are well guarded.
And maybe, just maybe, Trump could be so stupid as to believe a false flag operation. I thought he was the greatest genius in the history of time at acquiring his own intelligence? Like I said, let’s see if his ego can admit to being scammed.
To be fair, Trump must rely on his ‘experts’ in such matters. And those ‘experts’ track record for remote WMD capability evaluation is none too good. Just ask Pres. G W Bush.
Even on-scene agent determination can be hit or miss. The electronic monitors they gave us were easily fooled by diesel or JP 8. Not so crazy to prefer false positives to false negatives, though.
You “always” have to consider the source of the information, including things like the photos and videos. And don’t forget that many of his Intel people are still actively working against him. More reasons why I would not have taken action in this particular case but waited for a more significant opportunity to use my “silver” bullets.
I was on the receiving end of that training but agree. When I saw the footage I assumed a choking agent by the symptoms and the bare-handed handling of the casualties.
Or else some kind of home-brewed chlorine gas release.
Drake;
Agree: Spraying down purported casualties with water is actually useful in a Cl attack scenario. Or they were making Cl there and their process control went wrong. And it also is consistent with a gas attack simulation that got a little out of hand: Also consistent with a genuine, run-of-the-mill Syrian atrocity, that might opportunistically be hyped up to world-class by claiming it was done by nerve agent.
‘NOTHING in the ME is as it appears in the Western media’ is the good rule to follow.
You called it Al. Purposeful fraud is my leading supposition. They are very bad actors at putting these events together and the media (western) are too stupid to notice or pick up on the inconsistencies.
I too haven’t heard the epithet “fink” in a very long time. It means “finch” in German and as such is a fairly common Jewish surname.
I like old words. I take credit for bringing back the word “mohammedan” which I started using in comments to news stories about five years ago or more. I’ll also take credit for bringing back the word “honky.”
I’ve enjoyed using the word ‘honky’ since I was in Jr High, & I really appreciate your pulling ‘mohammedan’ back into use.
But I also wonder if the “missiles as a chemical weapons use response” calculus isn’t actually designed to keep the BS ‘over there’…to force the bad guys to kill each other on their own turf & on mutually agreed upon terms.
I want to keep my MAGA hat on until I see more.
Since you brought up olden Thymes and the word “fink” (which I haven’t since I was about 7 years old), I would like to continue the theme of bygone era values.
There was a time when a man like George H. W. Bush would have been shunned into hermitage after committing a bald-faced lie in public like he did. And if he truly was a man of honor, he would have retreated into penance and taken his lumps like a man. He did neither, and that is his lasting legacy.
He was succeeded by Bill Clinton; who was a true, violent recidivist rapist upon his inauguration (and later to become the worst sort of pervert). Never forget that Bill committed his sexual assaults while being the Attorney General and Governor of Arkansas.
These are paragons of the political class, and that disease has only gotten worse with time.
We can continue our the slow slide into the ditch, with our fingers crossed and hoping for a miracle. As for me, I would prefer a quick fall to a higher bottom and then get busy with the rebuild while there are still enough good men to matter.
My opinion on ’92 was had it been a straight-up Bush v. Clinton matchup, Clinton still would have won and by roughly the same margin as he did. Perot quitting when he did made him a protest vote, nothing more.
Bush had a lot of things going against him; ”no new taxes”, of course, the Gulf War that many thought was ”quit too soon, left business unfinished” the fallout from the S&L crisis (bubble) that left the end of his Presidency in the same shambles as his son’s, and his fatigue and indifference in campaigning against an opponent who wasn’t feckless.
Which ironically we got to see an reenactment of last year with Hillary (as Bush 1) v. Trump (as Bill).
We’ll never know about a straight-up Bush v. Clinton matchup, will we? When Perot dropped out in July, he led in 3 way matches with Bush and Clinton. Dropping out assured no damage would come to the Republicrat and the Demopublican parties. When he re-entered the race in October, he was still able to receive over 18% of the popular vote. Clinton beat Bush in the popular vote by about 43 to 38%. Exit polls have been produced that showed Perot drew equally from Bush (37%) and Clinton (37%) , but that still doesn’t account for 26% of the vote that Perot received. We will never know who they would have voted for if Perot wasn’t in the race.
Third parties have been used by our masters to make it appear that we have choice, but in actuality they channel discontent that would otherwise go to a specific candidate. The election of 1912, Roosevelt was actually instrumental in taking votes from Taft so that Wilson would be elected and make sure the Federal Reserve Act was passed (Taft promised to veto it) and to get us into WWI. George Wallace also got enough of the vote in 1968 to draw off Southern support for Humphrey and to make sure that Nixon was elected.
A few years ago, this horse-shit with bombing Syria would have royally pissed me off. Especially with the America first stuff that I let myself believe Trump really meant. And not to mention the very f-ing real possibility of this mess culminating in a nuclear war. But now…. Don’t care. If WWIII happens and the kids start getting pulled back on the ICBM silos, all of those ass clowns in Dee-Cee and NYC who just have to have their war… They die first. Maybe I get vaporized in round 2 or starve to death in a radioactive wasteland, but they died first. I’ll take what little victory that I can get.
You found an upside to the really bad downside.
I’ll take it.
Finding good, original entertainment is going to get a lot harder now. For example: we’ going to see chemical weapons used in every middle east shit-hole now that the narative of chemical weapons use = ‘ Murica, fuck-yeah!, get ready for the chemical weapon use of the week theater.
I agree with your assessment of HW. What a rat fink.
I really don’t know what to think of the Syria mess. I give it better than even odds that AQ or ISIS staged to attack to provoke just such a response from the U.S.
I wonder if the Administration knows it was probably a staged attack but decided to launch a few missiles at worthless targets to:
1. See how they do against the air defense systems the Russians sold them.
2. Get everyone off their backs about the Russians and Assad.
3. Maybe prolong the civil war as we are probably better off with nobody winning the thing for a while.
Hopefully this token attack is it and were done with this crap.
Hopefully. For some reason, “fixing” the Middle East is some sort of intoxicating thing. Hopefully The Donald didn’t take a big hit of the drug.
I think more than anything this is a one-off message to Russia and China.
– Dropping cruise missiles in Russia’s new playground.
– It is no coincidence that it happened while he was at dinner with Xi.
– And then a little stab at the media trying to make their Russian collusion case.
– Finally, Hillary’s speech supporting the action before it happened was icing on the cake.
I don’t think he has significant intention of getting deeply involved in Syria. At least I hope not…
WW I kicked off slowly after an assassination in Sarajevo too.
The point is “Why” did it happen? When it very well could be another False Flag ?
Trump would restore more Freedom, and to start to deconstruct this USSA by ordering a missile attack on a certain facility in Langley, Va.
I repeat this posting of a link:
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/04/08/syria-it-doesnt-matter-who-used-the-chemical-weapons/#more-131060
Note in Tillerson’s remarks the CONSTANT repetition about “LOCALS taking control”.
And again I will note: “No US sailors or Russians were harmed in staging this epic show of non-lethal fireworks.
This was more ridding the US military of old-fashioned and obsolete munitions to scare the locals and the stir the proggies than anything else.
My greatest concern is that Bannon is near to walking out the door while Kushner is the Donald’s favorite, which makes it harder for me to pull the wool over my own eyes about Syria or attempting to rescue Obamacare. When his approval number fell to 36% that wasn’t more Democrats hating him, that was a pure loss of love, Donald.
The Trump Administration is on the precipice. The only reason I’m not more disheartened today is that this seems to have been Kabuki Theatre and a one-off. Obviously if we send troops to Syria I’m off the Trump Train as are millions of others.
If we don’t build the Wall and halt refugees, I’ll gleefully help derail the Trump Train–as will millions of others.
As a believer in most everything former CIA agent Michael Scheuer has to say about the Middle East and its surroundings, I like Z Man and many of the posters here am less than enthused by Trump’s decision last night. But, I don’t think it’s time to compare him to GHWB. Trump exists in a political swamp and he’s got to “give one” to “get one” at this time. He is surrounded by so much fecal matter from the previous three (maybe four) administrations that he can’t have everything his way. It’s like everyone here is expecting him to be a “my way or the high way” President from day one. The fecal matter is too deep for that.
My opinion, he needs at least two years of sanitation pumps and chlorine to get the pool to barely acceptable levels. Today Gorsuch has been approved by the Senate. That’s another “cinder block” in place. I’m thinking that for his actions last night, he might be able to get other “cinder blocks” in line – give one, get one (or two!).
It’s going to be slower than we’d like but I still have faith in the man. And, he’s about all we got.
Mud on the wall, fire away.
Funny. Literally five seconds before I clicked over here the phrase “Donald Herbert Walker Trump” ran through my mind.
Sigh.
fukking democrats and their insane media toadies are driving Trump into the arms of the miltary. want to know what Rome II looks and feels like? just wait 5 years…
I was not happy about this last night at all. Too many unknowables, and if you had to strike somewhere to show you are not to be messed with and check off some other good negotiating and meme killing boxes, this might have been it.
I am hoping that in time, this will be seen for what it was, but by the time it is, the muh Russia meme is deader than dead. Trump is in a good position to say, ” it appears the press made up those pictures to lie to me and shape public opinion!” I believed those horrible pictures and Lindsey and McCain were telling me we had to bomb. I won’t make that mistake again! Great point to pivot, and all he did was hit a few reinforced hangers at a airport. He is also now in a great position ( hoping , I admit) to hand off the ME to his new Jordon/Egypt league of gentlemen and that also works towards the Israel issue and the PLO. So, lots on the table. We’ll see.
I’m thinking we’re just too close to events to judge them. North Africa was a pitiful campaign for the US, but we did better later. Lots of examples of it. I trust one thing about Mr. Trump. He learns from his victories and learns more from his defeats. IF he gets good info/intel, he’ll be a stronger President we can trust down the road. Glass half full, for sure. And if he goes off the rails, we still didn’t get Hillary or GOPe. We’ll get a good bit of regulations removed and a good bunch of constitutional judges appointed. Have a good weekend guys!
“Trump is in a good position to say, ” it appears the press made up those pictures to lie to me and shape public opinion!” I believed those horrible pictures and Lindsey and McCain were telling me we had to bomb. I won’t make that mistake again!”
Trump has gotten a lot of excuses from his base supporters because of the supposed “intelligence” he accumulates on his own. For instance, claiming he was spied upon, had the media scream he was a liar and conspiracy theorist, then showing that his intelligence was correct. So, if he is deceived by the “media” and the “intelligence” agencies, its not such a great advertisement for his unequalled ability to know what is what. Plus, trusting Graham and McCain? He got fooled. Given Trump’s ego, do you think he could admit that?
So, just what did Trump “bomb”? Just who got hurt? Did some poor gob sprain a thumb pushing the launch button for those big, ancient pop bottle rockets?
Or was it for show? Faking out the neo-cons dumb enough to believe this made some huge impact on anybody. No Russians were harmed in the making of this epic!
If a good chunk of the base (and the Z Man?) are stupid enough to believe this was anything other than kabuki antics for benefit of the gullible, they should have their right to vote revoked!
Well, I hope you are right. Trump does like winning and he likes making lists. Just think of the 100 day Accomplishment list he will proudly report on soon.
The only caveat I have to calm my nerves is that this happened so quickly, it almost has to be a play for other purposes and not a real change of direction according to his campaign promises. I hope and pray.
“Trump won the nomination and the presidency on one core issue. He would be the President of the United Sates, not the President of the world.”
Trump ran on the wall; its true that the wall is basically shorthand for what you are saying here but specifically he ran on the wall. I think that regardless of all the tempest on Twitter, Trump as a successful president lives or dies on the wall, not on whether he bombs Syria or Korea or wherever.
“Yesterday, the alt-right and even many seasoned geezers like me took a body blow when Trump abandoned everything he said over the last two years and embraced the idiocy of yet another war in the Middle East. ”
I think most of the shock is that the alt-right have a lot of expectations that weren’t going to happen. Trump is ultimately a NYC 1996 Clinton Democrat; its the pure lunatic drift of the last twenty five years that this position is considered nowadays to be on the far right. The idea that he would do nothing anywhere wasn’t realistically going to happen. The US is still an empire and even an empire driven by a nationalist is still going to take imperial actions. The question is whether its time to dismiss Trump and on that I think its too early; he shot some missiles at a base after letting Russia know in advance and while he was in a working dinner with the head of China. He didn’t take a shot at Assad or start transporting troops by the boatload to invade Latakia.
The question is where it goes from here; Scott Adams approach on this event seems the most solid. I think in the end Trump as President lives or dies on overturning the “Invite the World” part of “Invade the World, Invite the World” slogan.
“His “reason” for condemning himself to ruin is that his daughter got the sads over seeing pictures of dead kids in Syria. ”
Actually I think its less Ivanka doing that then that he did that himself. Trump gets a lot of his news the old fashioned way. There is also the possibility that military action is the price he has to pay for factional loyalty from the Pentagon in his war with the State Department.
Maybe. Time will tell on all of it, but an important chunk of his base is thinking Trump is a fink and a liar right now. My guess is all the same arguments in favor of voting for Bush will be re-purposed for voting Trump in 2020.
As an aside, I think this is playing well with the public. The Drudge poll has it at 65% in favor. Few people I know are opposed, even the liberals. The point being, I’m in a very small minority and I know it.
“Time will tell on all of it, but an important chunk of his base is thinking Trump is a fink and a liar right now.”
Maybe I’m just cynical or old or I’ve been living in NYC too long but I didn’t have any major expectation of Trump on the level that he’d be honest or he’d roll back the state to 1922. I had one major expectation of him in the voting booth – he wasn’t Hillary Clinton. On that level he’s already succeeded.
“As an aside, I think this is playing well with the public. The Drudge poll has it at 65% in favor. Few people I know are opposed, even the liberals. The point being, I’m in a very small minority and I know it.”
I’d be against this if I really believed that this attack was the opening round in another middle eastern war. But I don’t think it is and I don’t think that the public thinks it is either. I and the public as well could be very wrong. But none of us know yet. Right now all Trump did was bomb an air base in Syria in the aftermath of what was reported to be a chemical weapon attack. If its left where it is, there isn’t much down side to it from his perspective. The public is happy that we did something, the Russians are reminded that the US is still a factor in the Middle East, the Chinese witness a show of force to remind them Trump isn’t Obama, the Arabs are happy and Trump himself now has some leverage that he didn’t have before thanks to Obama’s ceding the whole area to Russia and Iran.
Its not the thinking of a republic but the calculation of an empire; if the alt-right believed that Trump was a sign that the empire would melt away, that was always a mirage. The public probably isn’t interested in that anyway; what most people seem to want is a recalibration – fewer lunatics in charge and prosperity instead of impoverishment in the name of nonsense a bunch of college professors dreamed up in unread papers to fulfill tenure requirements. If Trump can make it feel like 1985 again, he won’t have trouble running against Chelsea Clinton in 2020.
I’m already seeing stories come out about how the gas was likely already at the location – and what really happened was that the Syrian military bombed the location because it was a known ‘rebel’ location – and that is what released the gas.
I’m also seeing stories that it was phosgene – and not Sarin.
Given the amount of lying that has gone on around the Syrian conflict for YEARS now – and , including all the outright lying and fake news around the US presidential election cycle – what are the chances that we’re suddenly hearing the truth?
My bet is somewhere between slim and below zero.
Annie Coulter put her usual snarky self in the drawer today, and put the entire matter quite succinctly:
“Those who wanted us meddling in the Middle East voted for other candidates.”
Likewise, the irony of today. The victory of getting Gorsuch nominated, and yet, were Gorsuch to ever rule about Donalds actions over against Article !, Section 8, Donald would lose huge..
You (and I) may be a fairly small minority on this, but it’s a minority he needs to win re-election in 2020. He tossed it away, and for what? Nothing of any value that I can see. Now he just looks impulsive, since no effort was made at all to see who really conducted the gas attack.
I think Presidents live in a bubble, but they still have to have some sense of what their supporters are thinking, and I believe he just fucked up on that point. We’ll see if he recovers.
I suppose the good news is that a significant hunk of the populace has now given up on politics and government. They will be giving the “Big Fuck You” to Trump next time around.
“I think in the end Trump as President lives or dies on overturning the “Invite the World” part of “Invade the World, Invite the World” slogan.”
What hope is there of that, if all it takes to make his knees buckle is a photo of a pathetic kid? All it took was one picture of a drowned kid to fling open the doors of Canada to a still-continuing wave of “Syrian refugees”. What worked so brilliantly once will assuredly be used again. And again. Even if they’re not dead, there will be pictures of sobbing women and children pressed pleadingly against barbed-wire fences at borders. That’s all it’ll take to send Ivanka blubbing to daddy, and Mr. Compassionate will be giving the green light to another wave of violent moochers.
You’d think someone who grew up in NYC would be wise to the street hustler gig. I think he got played big time by the Deep State and the media. Photos and video looked so bogus, it was laughable. Guys carrying kids in their arms running around like chickens with their heads cut off! Too much. Anyone who has watched over the years how the ME people play the western media see all the hallmarks of a scam. Unless Trump had other motives, which I think are still weak for this kind of action, this was a don’t care in my book. I voted for him because I don’t care about the ME with the exception of Iran and nukes.
“Trump won the nomination and the presidency on one core issue. He would be the President of the United Sates, not the President of the world.”
Trump ran on the wall; its true that the wall is basically shorthand for what you are saying here but specifically he ran on the wall. I think that regardless of all the tempest on Twitter, Trump as a successful president lives or dies on the wall, not on whether he bombs Syria or Korea or wherever.
“Yesterday, the alt-right and even many seasoned geezers like me took a body blow when Trump abandoned everything he said over the last two years and embraced the idiocy of yet another war in the Middle East. ”
I think most of the shock is that the alt-right have a lot of expectations that weren’t going to happen. Trump is ultimately a NYC 1996 Clinton Democrat; its the pure lunatic drift of the last twenty five years that this position is considered nowadays to be on the far right. The idea that he would do nothing anywhere wasn’t realistically going to happen. The US is still an empire and even an empire driven by a nationalist is still going to take imperial actions. The question is whether its time to dismiss Trump and on that I think its too early; he shot some missiles at a base after letting Russia know in advance and while he was in a working dinner with the head of China. He didn’t take a shot at Assad or start transporting troops by the boatload to invade Latakia.
The question is where it goes from here; Scott Adams approach on this event seems the most solid. I think in the end Trump as President lives or dies on overturning the “Invite the World” part of “Invade the World, Invite the World” slogan.
“His “reason” for condemning himself to ruin is that his daughter got the sads over seeing pictures of dead kids in Syria. ”
Actually I think its less Ivanka doing that then that he did that himself. Trump gets a lot of his news the old fashioned way. There is also the possibility that military action is the price he has to pay for factional loyalty from the Pentagon in his war with the State Department.
I’m willing to cut Trump a little bit of slack in this, and give him the benefit of the doubt. The US has no interest in the outcome of Syria, but the US does have an interest in the use of chemical weapons not being ok.
The fretting over chemical weapons got us into Iraq. I’d prefer it is people did not do a lot of things, but the human condition is immutable. There are no good guys in this, just different types of bad guys. Leave them to sort out their own problems.
Time will tell if this is a one time deal, but I’m not optimistic.
Iraq was bad intelligence and Saddam bragging that he had them. In Syria they actually got used. I’m not jumping to conclusions of this being a one-time thing or escalating just yet.
So Saddam killed people with chemical weapons – this is historical fact. He killed Iranians during the Iran-Iraq war – and he gassed a town of rebels if my memory serves me correctly.
Then – the Neocons – because they were looking for an excuse to invade Iraq (they had already stated their intention to do so) – needed a reason. So they went full bore on the “Saddam has WMD’s!!!” theme until it stuck. Similar to how the left has gone all in and doubled down on the “Russia did it!!” theme lately.
I’ll say the same thing about this now – as I said to people then – when I argued endlessly with all the idiots who fell in lockstep behind the Neocons in their drive to war: It’s going to fail. It’s going to cost WAY more money than you’re claiming it will – and it’s going to be something we get mired in for YEARS.
Oh yeah – and who gives a shit if HAS WMD’s – it’s whether he USES them that counts – and WHO he uses them against. If he’s not using them against the US – then it’s NOT our problem.
But that argument fell on deaf – and dumb as a stump – ears. So now we’re many years past the invasion – and another argument can be added to the above list:
How many people did the US kill in Iraq – trying to save people from getting killed by Saddam’s WMD’s ??? . Is there any calculus at all to morality? When you make the claim that you need to invade country to save people’s lives from getting killed by a dictator with deadly weapons – and you end up killing far more people than that dictator ever did by the use of those weapons – who is the immoral douchebag once the final evaluation is done?
Best analysis I’ve read so far:
“Actually, the Syrian base was not destroyed … the lack of damage is so obvious. That’s what you do when you get fake intel on a poison gas attack, you fake a retaliatory attack.
Smoke and mirrors, kids!
Trump is doing multivariable calculus while the rest of you people are still trying to figure out how to do addition with those fat pencils in your stubby little fingers.”
Fits; those missiles are old, slow and ineffective against real, protected targets. Had a buddy who, when in Nam. used to shoot off dozens boxes of old .50 cal. machine gun ammo against the jungle, purportedly populated with local VC, just to get rid of it and show the West Pointers that they were “vigilant” against Victor Charlie. Pure kabuki, as was this show of farce, using those Tomahawk noise makers.
I’ve already seen this movie. August 1998, US President launches Tomahawk cruise missiles at targets in the Mideast. Tossed the red hat in the trash last night.
1998 was “wag the dog”. This is more like “bell the cat”? Is Trump the sacrificial mouse in a bigger, darker game?
If he builds the wall, all will be forgiven. But this is not a good sign, IMHO…
This Syria action sure made me sit up and take a deep breath. IMO, his strongest specific policy declaration going in to the election was that we were going to cut out all these Middle East wars.
There is an argument to be made that this is really a message for Iran, or North Korea, or maybe even Russia. Perhaps even telling China, at the moment you are sitting at a nice dinner with Chairman Xi, that red lines will not be crossed. Ballsy. Trump is a betting man, so this appears to be a wager of sorts. You can do that in international politics, but you darn well better be successful if you do make a play.
Knowing how Trump plays the negotiating game, this gambit probably should not be a surprise. But, damn, it is awful uncomfortable being carried along on this ride. The inner-circle personnel changes also suggest some sort of change in the direction of the White House as well. An uncomfortable moment for sure, and the GHW Bush analogy rings big bells. That guy was really bad news, in hindsight. Once CIA, always CIA.
Read this, from Conservative Treehouse:
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/04/08/syria-it-doesnt-matter-who-used-the-chemical-weapons/#more-131060
I think those that are trying to maintain their faith in MAGA are “assuming” that Trump is reacting to a 4D chess move 3 months from now. He “brilliantly” assumed by his action that:
1. He no longer looks like a Russian tool to those that will hate him irregardless of what he does.
2. Will show China that he doesn’t take crap off anyone.
3. Will install the SDF, which has been kicking ISIS’s butt, in place of Assad and control them.
4. Will sneak through domestic actions while everyone else is paying attention to Syria.
I think point 3 should cause everyone to quit attributing to Trump “psychic” powers that put his enemies off balance. When has a dictator ever been removed in the Middle East and the result has been in the West’s favor? But, we’re not at war….yet. I don’t know what will happen. I do long for the day when we have politicians that say what they mean and do what they say, cause Trump ain’t it. Do you think I’m being naive? Maybe just a little?
Conservative Treehouse has done some interesting work on how Trump is assembling/joining an Israel/Egypt/Jordan/Saudi coalition to remake the Middle East. Fine and dandy, but when has anything other than the point of a gun changed anything over there, and usually that sort of thing just makes things worse, because we don’t finish the job (which would entail a scorched-earth, burn-it-all-down strategy). Trump does not strike me as a guy who wants to go all the way with this, which makes it a very dangerous move. And since when has it been wise to trust anything that has something to do with Saudi Arabia?
Here’s Scott Adams’ take covering ALL the bases:
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/159300836386/the-syrian-air-base-attack
Over at http://voxday.blogspot.com/2017/04/blunder-or-complete-debacle.html I said:
I’m going with blunder as well. Though it’s quite possible that this could escalate to debacle.
Hearing all this ”but, but, it’s really a super-duper double secret twist strategy!” reminded me all too much of the 2nd Bush (mis)administration where even his (frequent) verbal gaffes ”are actually proof of his genius!”.
That said, I don’t believe the chem weapons were dropped/exploded by the Syrian military, they were either local homebrew stuff or smuggled in from a third party who’s had a long grudge against the Assads:
https://www.google.com/#safe=off&q=israel+helping+isis
Here’s how I try to maintain hope:
Trump’s decision was not his to make. He was simply boxed in politically. Saying “this isn’t our problem” would have been almost suicidal. It’s depressing that a president would make a decision about war based on politics rather than security, but it seems like that happened.
On the “bright” side, after the smoke cleared it looks like the following happened:
Trump chose the least violent action that would still look like a seriously violent response.
Trump ordered the generals to give the Russian military the details of the targets and left enough time for both Russia and Syria to evacuate military personnel.
A bunch of equipment and ammunition got blown up, but no soldiers were killed. Nothing really substantial or important was destroyed, the attack won’t really change the course of the war. This is about as close to returning to the status quo ante as I can imagine.
Still, that’s just hopeful rationalization. Time will tell.
I was politically apathetic until Bush Senior decided to drag us into the First Persian Gulf war to save his rich Saudi and Kuwaiti oil buddies with the lives of our troops. But the real wake-up call was when he publicly went on air to encouraged the Iraqi resistance fighters and Kurds to rise up against Saddam, giving them the assumption that the US forces would quickly follow up and support them. They faithfully and heroically did so. He didn’t. They were all hunted down by Saddam’s elite guard and wiped out. He betrayed them, and ever since I never trusted any president from either side of the aisle.
I never believed Bush the Elder about the “no new taxes” thing. Any pol who claims that is only too obviously a liar. What turned me against him was his eager jump into Kuwait to run Ol’ Sodomy Hussein out. The Kuwaitis openly bragged about their purchase of mercenaries to fight their war for them. Our guys were ordered to refrain from displaying evidence of their Christianity. Now, Trump has fallen into the same morass. But he’s pretty erratic, you know. It could have just been the one display, to let the world know that we aren’t screwing around any more. NORKs, be advised.
I clutch Gorsuch to my chest and pray.
Gorsuch is an Ivy graduate and a government lifer.
You’ve got one thing right: the praying