Fresh Out Of Patriotism

Back in April, I went to opening day for the local sportsball team here in Lagos. I’m not a fan of the local team, but I still enjoy following baseball. That and opening day is one of the great traditions of old America. Like everything else in America, the oleaginous grifters in charge of us have monetize the tradition, turning it into a tacky spectacle. If you can look past that, it is a nice reminder of what it was like to have a real country. What I could not look past or even tolerate, was the endless, over the top appeals to patriotism.

Before the game, there were a number of demands to celebrate the armed forces, “first responders” and school teachers, of all things. The claim was that these “brave men and women defend our democracy.” Then there was the singing of patriotic songs and the playing of the national anthem. In the seventh inning, we had more singing of patriotic songs. I’ve always been a bit sentimental with regards to patriotism, but I found the whole thing revolting. I knew what it was like to live in North Korea or Nazi Germany.

Now, a lot of the over the top patriotism is the aftermath of 9/11 and the resulting culture war over the response to it. The neocons cleverly couched their schemes in patriotic terms, painting their critics as un-American. That worked, so the Left is now doing the same thing with the great replacement. After all, America is a land of immigrants! You’ll note that most displays of patriotism in the mass media rely on people who “look like America” by not looking anything like Americans. Patriotism has been turned on its head.

There’s also the fact that the people in charge have nothing much to offer us, so like any business with a bad product, they have invested in marketing. This is a well documented phenomenon in business. When a company’s product is not selling, they ramp up the marketing, promising that it is new and improved. That’s the vibe I get with our ruling class flag waving. You’ll note they never sell open borders and globalism as something good for you. Instead, they appeal to your patriotism, claiming it is good for the country.

The trouble with what they’re selling is it contradicts the sales pitch. If America is just a place where you earn a paycheck and buy stuff, like a big shopping mall, why have any loyalty to it? Who has ever had an emotional bond with a shopping center? If anyone can wander in, become a citizen and vote, citizenship has no more value than a validated parking ticket at the mall. In other words, the patriotism on offer, just ensures that patriotism becomes increasingly worthless, along with tour citizenship.

Patriotism, properly understood, is a loyalty to the citizens who came before you. The emotional draw is gratitude for what they bequeathed. That implies a duty to preserve it for the next generation. If citizenship is just a meaningless transaction, then those citizens who came before us are no more important than the next guy who wanders over the border. Put another way, according to our rulers, our ancestors are strangers and so are our decedents. What possible reason would anyone have to be loyal to strangers?

It’s actually worse than that. The reason America is descending into a transactional land of strangers is that our ancestors decided to piss it all away. Why should anyone feel loyalty to the people who pushed through the 1986 immigration act? Why should we want to preserve what they passed onto us? If anything, we should take this day to dig up their bones and smash them to bits on the capital mall. That sounds harsh, but is there anything more monstrous than denying your decedents a chance to live the life you lived?

There’s another side to patriotism. That’s the loyalty to the institutions. In a liberal democracy, the citizen respects the office, even if he does not respect the man holding the office. Look around at our institutions. They are just as corrupt as the men who are in charge of them. No rational person can look at what is happening with the FBI and not think the entire political class needs to meet Madame Guillotine. After the last chop, send in the bulldozers to flatten the place. Maybe salt the earth afterwards.

For most of my life, I was an easy mark, when it came to flag waving. I believed the stuff they taught us in school and preached to us in the media. Despite her flaws, I thought the ideal of America was worth defending. The trouble is, the people in charge had other ideas. Like a lot of people over the last dozen or so years, I’ve had a change of heart about a lot of things. One of them is patriotism. You can be loyal to people, but you cannot be loyal to ideas or institutions. That’s a sucker’s play and I’m not a sucker anymore.

150 thoughts on “Fresh Out Of Patriotism

  1. I got to agree. Drain the swamp, burn it down and nuke it from orbit.
    I’m done. They screwed us. Completely and totally up the ass.
    I’m done.
    I agree with your previous statements. They view us as space aliens. We’re a different species than them. They defined the battle field. We need to treat them like they treat us.
    I’m done. Tired of putting up with this shit.
    It’s not our fault for noticing that they’re fulla shit.
    I’m done.

  2. My patriotism took a bit early in life with the War, a war that we had no business fighting because it in no way helped the lives of Americans. (Yes, I am one of those boomers everyone loves to hate.) As I read about past wars none made sense with the exception of the territorial expansion ones and WW2 and now I realize WW2 was a sham.

    Things have only gotten worse now that we are a practically a colony of Israel and fight wars for our masters while flooding the country with replacements who are preferred by Jews over traditional Americans. I can think of few departments of the bloated federal government that serve the interests of the citizenry. Instead, we have a government that rules over the citizenry/ colonists with a police force increasingly acting like an occupational army.

    I still feel a strong commitment to the ideas of the founding fathers but their goals and the reality of the day share little in common. So, I still have some patriotism but to what? A country that mostly no longer exists? To a tribe that has allowed the country to be stolen from itself and allowed traditional Americans who founded and built the country turned into a despised and persecuted minority?

    The only presidential candidate in my lifetime I ever was enthusiastic about was Trump but I fear he is too little too late. Maybe if states turn to secession that will rekindle my patriotism.

  3. What a post. It seems one underlying message is to mind how we Rightists publicly celebrate The 4th. To mind what we say at the BBQs. A change of outward tone is now called for.

    We can still inwardly celebrate our own idea of American patriotism. On any national holiday these days I choose to think of the soldiers. Most of us do probably. They thought they were fighting the good fight. Their American dreams way back when were worth fighting for. Maybe. Anyway, they died for each other. Guys who looked like them. Guys who looked like us.

    And though you have forgotten
    All of our rubbish dreams
    I find myself searching
    Through the ashes of our ruins
    For the days when we smiled
    And the hours that ran wild

  4. Z,

    Your 6th paragraph is magnificent (starting with Patriotism…). Its a really imoortant point. I cant add to it. I just want everyone to let it sink. A short, sweet paragraph like that can push normies over the fence, Bravo!

  5. Re:” Like a lot of people over the last dozen or so years, I’ve had a change of heart about a lot of things. One of them is patriotism. You can be loyal to people, but you cannot be loyal to ideas or institutions. That’s a sucker’s play and I’m not a sucker anymore.”

    ZMan, in the argot of the young-and-hip, you are now – quote, unquote, “Woke”…
    happy days are here again, break out the champagne, and so on!

  6. “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.” – Samuel Johnson, 1775

    Sinclair Lewis once quipped, “When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and waving a cross.” To paraphrase, insert “neo-conservatism” or “globalism” in place of “fascism” and the quote works just as well, although they even pretend to believe in God anymore.

  7. Sorry folks, still in the throes of this so-called Fourth of July celebration and will read the comments later. Just wanted to weigh in because I too like the z-man feel pretty much put off with all this flag waving.

    Was criticized at the obligatory family BBQ for not wearing something patriotic. Told them I was all done with this BS and got some confused looks.

    Heard a quote, not sure if it was from this blog , but it went something like an ” old man always dies in a foreign country “. And that’s just what the USA feels like today. A foreign country I have nothing in common with.

    Sorry to be the wet blanket. Happy Fourth of July for those who are still in the festive mood. Make it a safe one, Cheers !

    • It was the realization that I would die in a foreign country if I died in America that led me to leave it. Not much I can do to reverse the decline at this point. I raised my son to embrace thought crimes and he is very red pilled so I at least I leave that legacy.

      Frankly at this point I don’t have the heart to watch the country descend into madness and become a combination of Venezuela and South Africa Norte. If secession starts I will head back

  8. Basing one’s loyalty in ‘blood and soil’ is, historically, the sanest bet for people threatened by enemies.

    Here in the USA, who lives where they grew up? Who lives close to their extended families?

    Some do, but they are considered retrograde even by the standards of the Z-blog: Farmers, drug-store clerks, bank tellers, managers of the local Dollar Store: That sort of person.

    A year or two ago I was surprised to discover that Lawrence Welk was a native-born American. He just happened to grow up in northwestern town that all spoke German.

    So, now that ‘patriotism’ is out, how do we put together some ‘blood and soil’ coalition against the enemy?

    Happy 4th anyway. I can still jump into my truck and drive 2500 miles to visit friends and relatives in the west, enjoying the vastness of the continent, eating a good breakfast every morning on the trip. Maybe that is sufficient to fly ‘Old Glory’. Name another country where you can do that.

    • “Blood and soil” patriotism will get you linked, at worst, to the Nazis – and at best to Pat Buchanan-style paleo-cons. Any ideas on how to restore this formerly respectable idea to its status, ante bellum, circa 1932?

      • Pre-1914 in any case. The World Wars didn’t cause the same level of cultural wounding that they did in Europe. The nation lost some of its appeal when faced with wholesale slaughter. No shortage of Euro left-liberals will tell you that any kind of far-right politics must be suppressed lest those dark days return. Of course they will never say this about communists, who simply have good intentions and care about people.

  9. One good way to determine if you have crossed over the River Normie into the realm of the Dissident Right: you now find the heartfelt July 4th sentimentality of true blue mainstream Republicans like Hugh Hewitt or Jonah Goldberg as phony as a Harriet Tubman double sawbuck.

  10. ‘Murka has belonged to the Jew$ and their invasive ethnic orcs for decades, and they are now liquidating it altogether. If and when the debtPonzi (((they))) use to buy consent from the remnant Whites collapses, perhaps we can take back whatever remains…and rebuild it on a different basis. Because the flag and muh Constitution are all used up.

  11. “No rational person can look at what is happening with the _____ and not think the entire political class needs to meet Madame Guillotine.” Fill in the blank. “Congress.” “Budget” “Military” “Prisons” “Financial System” “Banks” “Goldman Sux” “Border” “Pharma industry” “Insurance Fraud industry”. Shit the list is endless. A cleansing fire would go a long way to clearing the decks. Somebody page what’s left of McStain and tell him to fire up the jet.

    • “Somebody page what’s left of McStain and tell him to fire up the jet.”

      The only people that traitor McCain is against is actual Americans.

  12. Z, you’ve written a very thoughtful & sobering entry today. Thank you for encapsulating a lot of what I’ve been concerned with lately.

    I read recently that the US DOD maintains over 300 bases worldwide. 300! Do any of you remember voting on the proposition that the US taxpayers were supposed to fund the world’s policeman? I don’t remember having a chance to vote on that. Likewise, I don’t remember voting on all the efforts on bringing in the immigrants to this country. I’m old, maybe I just forgot….

    I frequently laugh at a lot of the ‘internet tough guys’ that frequent this site as commentators – taking to the streets with their weapons held aloft, hanging politicians from the lampposts, taking a few on Pinochet helicopter rides, etc. Now, however, I realize that maybe violence is the only way forward. What else is there? I’m asking very seriously…what other measures are left?

    • There is that video of the rightist marcher in Portland (they had a permit) taking down an Antifa guy with one punch. The Antifa guy probably, at best, got a severe concussion from landing on his head where he fell.

      Sadly. I am not rooting for the sportsmen any more, but instead for the marcher who did that. That is not a good thing to root for, but it is what it is. The guy really Mike Tysoned the Antifa guy swatting him with a stick. This is what we have devolved to, and it appears I am along for the ride.

      • Portland is Portlantifa. One interesting outcome of Portland is that the anti-racist Patriot Prayerers and Proud Boys got their own Charlottesville. Just as in Cville, the rightists held a permitted rally yet watched as the antifa attacked them and the police did nothing. Then the police declared a riot and chased the rightists out. Then the press reports on the “violence at the far right rally”, while intentionally ignoring that almost all the attackers were antifa!

        You think you’re going to win favor being anti-racist, but they’re going to call you Hitler anyway. Wise up.

      • What part of war don’t you understand? The Left went nuts against whites before Trump even got elected. Remember San Jose where the Left used MAGA supporters as punching bags and the police did nothing and Trump fled. Go read Sailer’s posts on the NYT articles where a array of SJW types are calling for whites to be eradicated or calling us evil, etc.

        This is the sort of demonization the Nazis did against the Slavs before they attacked Stalin. Or the sort Stalin did against the Ukrainian farmers.

        Whether you like it or not, the Left wants you dead and gone with every other white, doesn’t matter if you’re a cuck, country club white, a pasty faced rich centrist like Hannity, you’re the enemy.

        Right now they are sizing us up, they see Trump and the GOP saying nothing. The Fox talking heads outside of Carlson still think it’s 1985. To the Left this shows that we are weak and that just makes things worse.

    • We thought War Was Bad, but it unleashes the most profound things within us.

      Europans were the colonizers, the only global colonizers in humanity’s long history.

      If things go dark- what we did, we will someday do so again. The Phoenixes.

      • No, they were not the “only global colonizers”.
        The Arabs also colonized globally; much of Africa, and much of central/southern/southeastern Asia was colonized by them.
        The Ottomans also colonized extensively, taking over Greece, Slavic lands, and arab lands).

        • Arabs had no deepwater navy, they were afraid of the ocean; only Europa discovered the New World, Antartica, and every corner of the world.

          The Chinese Zheng Ho discovered Cuba about 1420; their explorers left a monument in New Mexico 3000 years ago- but each dynasty burns the previous one’s records in a new Year Zero.

          Crete/Philistia went as far east as Indonesia. They left their tools in copper mines in Michigan and, and are almost certainly the progenitors of advanced astronomy, maths, and stonemasonry in the Atlantic coast of the Americas.

          But we are the breakout race.
          The first truly global civilization.
          We went first to space, even the frozen slaves of the Soviets, a feat undreamed of.

    • Sadly that’s an improvement on base numbers FWIW. A Politico article from 2015 claims 800 in 70 countries.

  13. I wouldn’t be too hard on your sense of patriotism. I agree the corporate marketing and selling the 4th of July it at WalMart is a bit over the top, but I would put monitization of patriotism on the same level as Father’s day, birthdays and Halloween, which is quite different.

    Europeans, with the exception of the Brits, have been conditioned to not be patriotic or even worse, nationalistic for a very long time. Everyone knows what happened in Germany the last time we got all proud about our country. But then again, it was in 1938 right after we were disqualified from the world cup. I’m pretty sure losing the world cup and starting WW-2 were not directly related – but you never know. Germans can be sore losers.

    The only time being patriotic here is really acceptable was when the Wall came down and then every four years during the World Cup. And even then, it’s pride in the team that represents Germany, not Germany itself we’re all cheering and waving flags about. One look no further than September 2013 of the video of our fair Chancellor taking a flag away from one of the other members of the CDU and shaking her head

    The fact you Americans are so patriotic is a bit of hope for many of us. We envy that you can be so proud. Unfortunately, we seem to be mired in our past and have to be constantly reminded and humiliated that we did bad things, despite the fact that we, as Europe’s industrial and economic power-house, have brought up the collective standard of living for the rest of Europe through EU re-distribution of wealth. if you think I’m kidding, next time you’re in Ireland or Italy, pay attention to the plaques on new schools, or libraries or other public facilities that were provided by EU funding. Funding these countries couldn’t afford on their own. Think of it like US Federal funding in poorer states.

    So wave your flags, shoot off fireworks and celebrate yourselves. You might as well enjoy it while you can before someone from the government comes and takes your flag away.

    I wish a very happy 4th of July to my American cousins!

    • God bless you, Karl Horst, without Europa we wouldn’t be here, modern civilization wouldn’t be here.

      “Save Europe’s ass a third time?”
      Damn right we will. And this time we’ll save it for Europeans. Our brothers and sisters.

      Hang on, fam, we’re coming! We’re coming to decorate every lamp-post in Brussels!

    • “Everyone knows what happened in Germany the last time Everyone knows what happened in Germany the last time we got all proud about our country.”
      I traveled and worked in Germany some years ago, and was struck by how difficult it was to break through that issue with the Germans I met and befriended. I truly believe that the effect this has had on young Germans might also qualify as a crime against humanity…particularly in view of the fact that Communist Russia never bore any real stigma for her atrocities. No country is without sin, but few countries have given the world the art, science and literature that the Germans have either, but that’s nothing for the Left to be shrill about so it all goes unsaid.
      I thank you for your greetings and your tribute on our day of independence. It’s been a while since I’ve listened to Beethoven, so I think I’ll do so this evening…and I promise to raise a glass to you. Gluck Auf.

  14. HAPPY BIRTHDAY AMERICA! Until 11:59 PM tonight, all Official Trump gear is 40% off! …
    This is the text message I have just received from Team Trump. It cheapens the event considerably.

  15. Bravo! Patriotism only makes sense in a homogeneous society with a single dominant culture. Under Diversitopia (a.k.a.: dystopia), patriotism is but a cynical gimmick to quell dissent against negligent, psychopathic rulership. What do misadventures in the Middle East and open borders lunacy have to do with the founding stock of America?

    • Reinforcing your observation, note that China downplays celebrating the Peoples Liberation Army, instead they celebrate the history of the Chinese people.

      In contrast, North Korea celebrates nothing but their military Juche, and Iran has missile parades while ignoring or suppressing everything Persian.

  16. I quit patriotism at the point I couldn’t recognize the country , probably 20 years ago when I came to California

    Our stories aside US was turning into a transaction land of strangers well before anyone here was alive, it died with the first wave of non Western European immigration if not the Germans and farther back

    This came about from a greed oriented intentional misreading of our posterity, where it meant “Ideas” vs. the blood lineage of the original Founders

    Despite a staggering birth and survival rate for the period , people simply couldn’t wait for natural increase and worse being obsessed from the get-go with cheap labor , would do anything to avoid paying a literal few pennies in wages, slavery, forced labor on trumped up crimes, unethical indentured contracts and later mass immigration to dilute wages

    Basically they did “anything” and that will end the Republic.

    Now the greed heads won’t care, they got what they wanted, a society entirely driven by commerce but the mass import of human refuse from all over the globe and the fragments of the Republic will end up making it fail if not by collapse or bloody ethnic war than by simple 3rd worldifiication when they find out that platform they created for them is hijacked by some Maduro socialismo out of New York

    Sow the Wind, Reap the Whirlwind

    • No I think we needed more people before 1900. The 1924 restriction established a stability that lead to the great period of American prosperity. Somebody moved to end all that in 1965 with hart cellar

      • Oh yeah, we needed people before 1900, like a hole in the head. The 1880-1920 “people” gave us 16, 17 and 19th amendments, the Federal Reserve, free trade , GCA of 1968 and Great Society.

        The great period of American prosperity was due to competing industrial centers in Europe and Asia being bombed back to the Stone Age. Once they recovered the prosperity ended. Very little to do with Hart-Cellar.

        • Yeah I get you—there came in a big Trojan horse—but they could not have realized that at the time. Perhaps some screwballs like Henry Adams did, I don’t know. Hindsight is always 20/20.

        • Notice that those amendments followed the increasing participation of non-English European immigrants from the mid-19th and late 19th-early-20th-century immigration waves?

          Goodwhites tell us, “See? Previous immigrants assimilated just fine and became Real Americans” when in fact they were major players in distorting our governmental system and the damage they did was only minimized (if it was) by the immigration moratoriums that followed each of those waves. They’re the best argument for implementing an immigration moratorium yesterday.

          • From a contrary perspective, the Afrikaners in the National Party repeatedly pushed back against more white immigration for most of the 20th century. They were concerned that white immigrants would be pro-British or Jewish Communists. But the same Boer leaders freely let their own people use contraception. They also resisted using Indians or Chinese as mining labor, blacks were apparently easier to control.

          • I’ll add that I do agree that the US didn’t need any more foreigners after 1890, and didn’t need that many before it either. A moratorium would have prevented my existence, but would have kept down the instability and welfare statism. But it was one particular group that should have left the US in 1948 and thanked us for our hospitality. Instead they used the Kennedys to wreck this country.

  17. Baseball seems to be having an allergic reaction to the kneel-like-a-slave and notice-me! crap that lately went on in the NFL. So baseball players vie to be the most manly and patriotic dude on the field, leading to an epidemic of mountain-man beards and stars-and-stripes socks. And instead of being all in-your-face, they just quietly go about their business.

    Compared to the noisome and wussy-to-traitorous alternatives, this is pretty cool.

    [Let’s try this again…. wordpress delenda est.]

    • I agree. I’d rather see commercialized patriotism than millionaire idiots kneeling to protest the country that gave them the opportunity to become millionaire idiots.

    • No, they have infiltrated baseball, count on it. I pay for mlb games online. They flash a survey now and again for marketing etc. I got to the first page and left it. Four categories for gender. Male, female, LGBTQ, and other. Not in that order either that I recall. The fact that that demographic does not exist in their fan base is irrelevant to the Borg. Even baseball sites like Fangraphs are going queer friendly, Muslim friendly (why are there no Muslims in baseball? It must be our fault!), same distress over the lack of girls in hardball. Mlb suspended a Red Sox pitcher for yelling at his wife.

      • Marketing superficially works at attracting more customers, and secondarily at keeping existing customers. In your face Poz is neither. It is designed to repel customers your business doesn’t want to be associated with. Advertisers only care about 18-34, after that they think brand loyalty is fixed. The NFL thought they could get rid of Boomer white males and replace them with woke Millenials. But you can’t buy season tickets when you still have student debt.

  18. I was at Whole Foods and they asked if I was an Amazon Prime member, and I joked with the girl,”prime membership will soon be worth more than US citizenship. You can’t do this I’m a prime member! Civis Primus Amazonis sum!”

    • It already is! You have to pay for Prime membership. Unlike when you enter the US illegally and instead we pay for your Section 8 housing, emergency room visits, et cetera…

  19. It says a lot about the tolerance level of Americans that conservative Baby Boomers continue to patronize black sportsballers that openly express contempt towards Middle America. Mindless consumerism is the secret to the power of “Woke Capital”.

    How badly do we want our independence? Enough to cancel your cable? Enough to not even watch television at all? Even these moderate sacrifices appear too much, while by contrast there is no shortage of foreign invaders willing to endure lower living standards so their descendants can conquer this continent.

    • We had three television stations, less than a handful of AM-FM radio stations, and only “approved” magazines in libraries and bookstores. (Unapproved material came in plain, brown packages and marked the recipient as a pervert or security risk.) We had few intellectual tools with which to fight the degeneracy and devolution. So, most of us elevated fine-sounding words, statements, and socioeconomic status above observation and experience. It was easier. Our fathers, children of the Depression and WWII, had deeply appreciated jobs and careers. White working-class families with single-family homes and relatively clean neighborhoods, largely gone now, were a reality back then. As children we saw how our environment could be improved by relocating to the city two miles over. Relocation was easy. And necessary due to the block busting of neighborhoods and the racial integration of schools. But also financially profitable in highly desirable places like southern California where there was still “room to grow.” We learned to “buy our way out” of almost any difficulty. So ea$y. Most boomers have carried this lesson throughout life, imo. “Ea$y” is key to understanding boomer psychology. Few boomer feetsball fans were ever called upon to act like men, much less be men. On some level they know this to be true. In my opinion their interest in feetsball rectifies this deficiency, giving them something manly and non-racist to talk about, and use the public adoration of feetsball players of color as a status-signifier.

      • Once I realized how emasculating it was for a man to wear the jersey of another man, it was no going back after that. It is wealthy white men that underwrite both ticket sales and alumni donations to universities, that ends up creating gods out of black thugs. Sportsball is the capturing of natural civic pride and tribalism, and its commodification. But yet the same sportsball business cannot survive without taxes funding stadiums.

        • What you are saying is true. I would think wearing another man’s jersey would be humiliating. So is allowing children/grandchildren to witness your jiggling pot-bellied excitement over a play made by a thug who hates you but would readily bed your willing (or unwilling) wife or daughter. I’ve pointed this out to more than a handful of fellow boomers in my time. None of them liked it, but all reluctantly agreed. Every one of them asked, “But what should we follow (or talk about)?” I’ve found there’s no point in suggesting what else they could do, for feetsball is central to their identity and happiness. To attack feetsball is to attack them.

          • A lot of middle-aged men use sportsball as nostalgia and escape from their shrewish wives. The latter has fallen with time as the sportsball industry tries to get more women to watch (eventually driving male fans away). Millenials seem to take more interest in music festivals and restaurants versus the sportsball of Boomers and Xers. NASCAR likely won’t exist in 20 years, a demographic klaxon for the South.

          • FFS, can’t they take up an active hobby of their own? I have several. That’s just rhetorical. The guy in my other post on this sub-thread does have one active hobby, but he’s just frickin’ addicted to identifying with “his” teams.

            His one hobby alone apparently can’t assuage the emptiness of his life.

          • Of course I’ve suggested other hobbies to the worst cases, offered to accompany them, and try new things. I’ve had bites, but nothing long-term. Was the problem me? I allow for that possibility. But my sons’ friends stop by frequently (the kids are grown). Many twenty and thirtysomethings still refer to me as “Mr. So & So.” Former students drop by to thank me for my efforts. Old companions from my jarhead years – boomers, themselves – visit on occasion. They all are part of my family’s “greater family.” I’ve passed things down and rarely thought it a sacrifice, for it all served a greater cause. No, I think feetsball enthusiasm among most boomers is partly due to it being a spectator activity enjoyed from the couch, no skill or serious knowledge required. It is ea$y. There is the added bonus that interest in the sport is deemed manly by males who shriek like little girls (“Ooh, ooh, ooh!”) when one of their third world heroes do something wonderful on the field. They bought into “The Virtues of Selfishness” and the rationalizations of the age. I read the book twice as an intrigued teen, but discarded it as garbage. I don’t get it or them.

        • Ugh. I have a friend who takes way too much identity from spectator sports. It’s kind of off-putting to me. He’ll say stuff like “we won” or “we played great last night” and I’ll be like, “Wow, you must be really tired.” My sarcasm hasn’t irrevocably pissed him off yet, for some reason.

          • It is correct that sports create a commodity out of tribalism, but that doesn’t make the feelings less authentic. People truely bond with friends and family over sports. Sports create temporary bonds with strangers that break up the monotony of daily life. lts also great background noise for whatever tasks you have to do. I drive for a living so I listen to sports on the radio while I work. I watch sports while I work out.

          • I know nothing, absolutely nothing about sports. Being sociable, sharing a common ‘language’, learning how to size people up like a field general, the spontaneity of each game, crowds celebrating high emotions, the good-natured goofy fun–

            How is any of this a bad thing?

            C’mon, it’s boys playing with their army men.
            That’s how we learn. Let boys be boys.

    • The Cliffs Notes version: We’ve been gaslighted by the elites since the advent of mass public schooling and television. They controlled what we read and to a large extent what we thought except for a handful of outliers. It was only in the last 20 years that we were able to access news that wasn’t controlled by the elites.

      Organized sports is nothing but bread and circus for the masses. It’s a emotional sedative and to suppress our tribal instincts by encouraging cross-ethnic identifications.

      But don’t blame Boomers anymore than some posters here are blaming people who aren’t WASP’s for our nations ills. They were the first generation really brainwashed by the new media, the successor generations are even more pathetic. They have their heads attached to cell phones and electronic hygiene products.

  20. You’ll note they never sell open borders and globalism as something good for you. Instead, they appeal to your patriotism, claiming it is good for the country.

    “For the good of the country” or “for the good of society”, etc. are red flags letting you know that you’re dealing with a shyster trying to sell you something that certainly isn’t going to be good for you. If the something was good for you, they’d simply tell you so. What’s a more compelling selling point than convincing you the product is good for you?

    “For the good of the country/society/the children/the less fortunate/etc.” is a red flag warning that you’re about to get screwed. It’s an acknowledgement that the proposal sure isn’t going to be good for you, that’s why an appeal is being made to your loyalties instead. Whenever you hear it, hold on to your wallet and reach for your revolver.

  21. Their plan is to homogenize the population and inculcate a hive-minded allegiance to a patriarchal government and it’s ruling class. This core allegiance is to government handouts and price is dependency addiction. The end-state is a class of worker drones that are easy to manipulate via mass media messaging. This is no longer the stuff of fiction.

  22. “Why should anyone feel loyalty to the people who pushed through the 1986 immigration act?”

    What about the treasonous scum who gave us the Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1965?

    • Arguably the Immigration Act of 1990 was worse than 1986, considering its creation of H-1B and the odiously named Diversity Lottery. Without H-1B the tech industry would be far whiter and conservative. The GOP would still be viable in the West Coast states.

      • How many of these treasonous goddam Acts are there?

        The Fabian march is slow but sure

        • Didn’t know that about 1990, thanks.

          Another one in the chamber when we televise these guys playing ‘Deer Hunter’ style Russian Roulette.

      • Yeah cause white techies like Jack Dorsey, Steve Ballmer, Reid Hoffman , Mark Zuckerburg, Bill Gates are all gun toting NRA lovin’ apple pie eatin Americans. Damn those H1B’s. Oh and BTW, those H1B’s cannot vote or hold public office. The tech industry is still heavily white dominated and yet heavily liberal. The H1B lean liberal too because of the values they imbibe from their white liberal co-workers.

        That’s OK. I do not expect the alt-right echo chamber to search for facts. To the OP, feel free to join Colin Crapperdick and kneel for the anthem. Whining is always easier than rolling up your sleeves and taking back the country. But whining is all the alt/dissident Right is good at.

        • The word is “incentivise”.
          Traitors and bad elements work for ‘pay’, so it’s easy to incentivise them.

          Some get rolled by their board of directors or treasonous underlings. Fabianism offers a ladder of opportunity- to the worst of us.

        • Look Pajeet, your cousins in India are voting BJP, your Prime Minister is an unapologetic chauvinist for his people and his religion. Is it really that much to ask that Indians in America should consider voting GOP and shaming their co-ethnics who complain about white racism?

  23. Patriotism is love of the Patria: the land, its people and their customs.

    It has fuck all to do with the government and its goons.

    • Government and it’s goons have much to do with fucking with the people and customs. That is the issue. This was a battle we were slowly losing, before government imported people more amenable to their aims.

    • Amply, amply demonstrated with our beloved kinsmen across the pond.

      And our soldiers, even cops. They aren’t good because the institution is good, they are good because Americans and Europeans are good.
      We are a truly good people.

  24. Stumbled upon an excerpt of a speech by Charlton Heston about the cultural war by the elites against normal Americans. It’s from 1997! Think you guys will appreciate it:

    “… the God fearing, law-abiding, Caucasian, middle-class Protestant – or even worse, evangelical Christian, Midwestern or Southern – or even worse, rural, apparently straight – or even worse, admitted heterosexuals, gun owning – or even worse, NRA-card-carrying, average working stiff – or even worse, male working stiff – because, not only don’t you count, you are a down-right obstacle to social progress. Your voice deserves a lower decibel level, your opinion is less enlightened, your media access is insignificant; and frankly, mister, you need to wake up, wise up, and learn a little something from your new America; and until you do, would you mind shutting up?”……………..”The Constitution was handed down to guide us by a bunch of wise old dead white guys who invented our country! Now some flinch when I say that. Why! It’s true-they were white guys! So were most of the guys that died in Lincoln’s name opposing slavery in the 1860s. So why should I be ashamed of white guys? Why is “Hispanic Pride” or “Black Pride” a good thing, while “White Pride” conjures shaven heads and white hoods? Why was the Million Man March on Washington celebrated by many as progress, while the Promise Keepers March on Washington was greeted with suspicion and ridicule? I’ll tell you why: Cultural warfare!”

    • It really is time to end the nonsense that the Civil War was about slavery.
      It wasn’t.
      Read Lincolns First Inaugural address, the one they don’t teach you at school. He’s happy with slavery and threatens violence only if the Feds taxes aren’t collected.

      “I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.”

      “The power confided to me will be used to hold, occupy, and possess the property and places belonging to the Government and to collect the duties and imposts; but beyond what may be necessary for these objects, there will be no invasion, no using of force against or among the people anywhere.”

      • Any day now, the blacks will realize the debt of gratitude they owe the 2 million Union Soldiers, and begin to clean up their act.

  25. “monetize the tradition”
    “transactional land of strangers”
    “Madame Guillotine”
    “I’m not a sucker anymore”

    Zman, you’ve hit it out of the park!

  26. Institutions should not be seen as inviolable entities unto themselves, which could be done respect separate from the persons who happen to comprise the civilization at some specific snapshot in time, but rather as outgrowths of organic substrate of the people of a land. What I’m trying to argue is that it’s wrong to separate institutional from national patriotism. Institutions are abstract outgrowths of the biologically/culturally based patterns of behavior of the people who comprise a nation. Chinese institutions are fundamentally Chinese and serve the interests of Chinese people. The question is, whom do our institutions serve?

    • Yes, however. Chinese institutions have never served the interest of the Chinese people and the people, of all classes, have never been sentimental about them for that reason.

  27. “By today’s standards King George III was a very mild tyrant indeed. He taxed his American colonists at a rate of only pennies per annum. His actual impact on their personal lives was trivial. He had arbitrary power over them in law and in principle but in fact it was seldom exercised. If you compare his rule with that of today’s U.S. Government you have to wonder why we celebrate our independence….”

    …Joseph Sobran

    • I feel slight shame in saying this but while my ancestors number among the Founders of this nation , I think I’d have been a Tory.

      Monarchy is by and large often better than a Republic.

  28. That opening day game you attended was not a sporting event, it was a religious ceremony. The ball players are merely the quire and band.
    As a former Marine, I too have soured on this unrelenting propagandizing. I get annoyed when I hear people say “thank you for your service” when they find out I’m a vet, because the words mean nothing. It’s nothing but thoughtless patronizing. Those same people’s actions tell the real tail when 5 minutes later they make it clear your vet status actually means nothing to them either. It’s become as reflexive as saying “God Bless You”, and I’m not a sneeze.
    I am disgusted with these manipulative antics during sporting events: recognizing “heros” (like some female admin clerk in the Air Force who hasn’t handled a loaded weapon since basic), surprising sons and daughters with the return of their father from deployment (those family’s emotions may be real; it’s the exploitation of their emotions I despise). I am insulted by the unyielding acknowledgement of diversity in the AF (commercials are nothing but POC and broads now; see my welfare comment), and the suggestion that all service is equal service (women don’t belong in the military in any capacity for reasons that were bluntly obvious to all of humankind throughout history until the last 100 years), when it clearly isn’t. While a large percentage of the enlisted basically amount to welfare recipients, it’s the patriotic white males get sent off to be killed or maimed in pointless warfare. It’s almost like that’s a feature, not a bug. I can’t help but notice how we don’t see too many horribly disfigured combat vets being recognized at these events either; the marketeers sure understand the importance of of optics.
    Patriotism to me is a personal thing, and is proven through one’s actions, not endless vocal pandering.

    • Well said. I’ve made many similar observations and agree 100% with your comment. I go as far as refusing to accept (and certainly not asking for) “military discounts.” Discounts are simply marketing and another form of a cheap “thank you for your service,” and they are just a way to make the business feel good about itself and use servicemen for some positive marketing vibes.

      • You’re absolutely right about that stuff. Personally, if I’m going to be patronized, I’d rather have the rock star parking like the handicap scammers.

    • My, unpopular, view is that I will thank someone for their service when I know what they did during that “service.” If you were bombing hospitals, droning wedding parties, or murdering people who have never attacked America or Americans, forget it….

        • Sorry, our government needs the money to do Israel’s bidding abroad and to support illegal aliens and “refugees” here at home… Would you settle for some cheap base-metal medals? Imbued with honor, of course.

  29. The important thing is separate the idea of America from the idea of the USA. America is a nation, and nations are people. The USA is constitutional arrangement. The USA needs America. America does not need the USA. At one time the USA was the political and geographical expression of the will and ideals of America. It isnt anymore. Now it is a multinational empire ruled by a globalist elite whose only loyalty and identity is money and status.

    Be loyal to America. Be skeptical of the USA.

      • Yes, but he (dirtnapninja) has captured something important in that comment. I think it might just need a bit of wordsmithing …

      • Hate to point this out, but NORTH America is a continent. America, in the sense used, represents the cultural expression of an entire people, which can be called a nation — in other words, us, the people who call themselves Americans. The USA is, technically, a state: a power structure claiming jurisdiction over a particular segment of North America and some outlying islands. Dirtnapninja is right.

        • IMO, the traditional American is of Occidental descent. Others may qualify as allies (or “allies”) of the Occidental American to the extent that their genetic ancestry and heritage, interests, and behavior converge with his own, but only superficially. I would not equate a “conservative” of sub-Saharan, Oriental, indigenous American, or of blatantly mixed descent as “one of us.” He is a temporary ally, at best. The political entity USA no longer expresses or protects the Occidental American, his interests, or his legacy. Nor will it ever do so again. The only thing that might protect him is a new political entity carved out of the ruins of the old state. Maybe.

      • Nobody likes a pedant. Everybody loaths an incorrect pedant. In the West Side Story song America, nobody thought they were talking about Canada, Brazil or Mexico when they sang:

        I like to be in America
        Okay by me in America
        Everything free in America

        America is a very long-standing colloquial reference to the US around the world for decades and decades.

        So stuff it.

    • Your paragraph above beautifully expresses what most Southerners (and many Northerners) were thinking in 1861 as they took up arms against the coming merchant/banking behemoth and its immigrant minions. Since then, the focus has been put solely on slavery as the casus belli. Fast forward to 2018 and you see the same propaganda machine in operation on behalf of similar goals. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

  30. I still have hatred for that piece of garbage David Frum. Some screed of a book where he tried to write out conservatives like Pat Buchanan saying they were unpatriotic. Guillotine indeed.

    It’s hard to feel it anymore when it is mass merchandised and promoted by opportunists and traitors. Well, Walmart did remove the Impeach 45 t-shirts yesterday, that’s something.

    • Ask yourself if Walmart would ever allow an Anti-Xi Jinping shirt to be sold.

      It says a lot about the Dems that they aren’t supporting Trump in the trade negotiations. For decades they won votes in the Midwest by bashing outsourcing and NAFTA. All of the retaliatory tariffs are specifically targeted at red state industries, in other words actual foreign interference in the elections. Can we even get someone like Tulsi Gabbard to call the PRC a “racist dictatorship” ???

    • Being unpatriotic, to neo-con filth like Frum, consists of insufficient subservience to israel.

  31. Totally disagree. We haven’t lost our country to the infidels and I have faith that we will undo much of the damage done by the left. Go Trump.

  32. It’s pretty easy to find online how the military pays to be included in sports ball. Also the military will loan free tanks and airplanes to movies if they can approve the script. So is it really patriotism, if u r paid?

  33. Z, you’re cynical because the flag, the rituals, have become a creaky puppet show that repudiates the original emotional reaction you associated with the time as a young man when the symbolism meant something real, something that stirred pride in us as a nation. I felt it this morning watching the ritual slobbering over “our brave service men and women who fight for our freedom overseas” (as an aside, I did two tours in Iraq as a Marine artilleryman and machine gunner) and it rang hollow. Its hitching old symbols to multicultural diversity, feminism, sexual deviance, consumerism, bureaucracy, preening politicians and smug little pricks in the alphabet soup of agencies. I didn’t bleed over there for “freedom”, since I came home to a country that the Bushes, Romney, McCain, Obamas and Clintons, Comeys and Rosensteins and Strozks and Pages have been busily screwing me and my freedoms for decades. The flag I fought under, as my father, and my grandfather, and my great uncle before me did, represents nothing but indifference and borderline contempt for me. I’m tired of it, of the empty shell it has become from the dream that Washington and Adams and Jefferson envisioned, and that my ancestors who were here alongside them fought for.

    • We respect the day for the Founding Fathers and those like them. I will happily wave the flag again when the border is closed – and we can call this a nation again – and I’m presented with the several page list of senior anti-American politicians including

      1) The times and places of their arrest
      2) The names of the prisons they’re in

    • Totally ok to love America and hate what it’s becoming…and to fight to save it.

  34. You know you can find minor league or even minor minor league or smaller in most cities. In my city I have access to the Sunbelt League. It’s incredibly pleasant to go to. It’s generally like $5 and you bring your own food and beverage and sometimes it’s free. In these little baseball diamonds scattered around the city

    • I have a secret hope that Trump’s deal with Lil Kim is giving the Norks a one off pass for nuking DC (They’d have to use Fedex as the delivery system, of course).
      Trump would do a Bush the Lesser and would be in Florida .

    • Shrugger, I do not support nuking DC. While I am an old coot, I do believe that I will live to see that happen.

      We are making progress toward the inevitable breakup of Lincoln’s Northern model of a supreme centralized government. Prepare accordingly. Where do you want your loved ones to be when the breakup happens, an ‘Estonia’ or a ‘Tajikistan’?

  35. “No rational person can look at what is happening with the FBI and not think the entire political class needs to meet Madame Guillotine. After the last chop, send in the bulldozers to flatten the place. Maybe salt the earth afterwards.” Hey – I hadn’t thought of that before. Yes … yes I would salt the earth afterwards. Excellent touch.

    • Waste of salt and land . Better to say replace the mind prisons of the Elites Institutions, all of them with either actual prisons or public parks

      • … Replace the mind prisons of the Elites Institutions, all of them with either actual prisons or public parks

        Let’s put immigrants refusing to leave — and especially the politicians who financed their own careers by bringing them in — to a super-max prison on Ellis Island.

  36. Well part of that Z, is that if you are white, male, and even moderately conservative – no, it ain’t your country any more, nor are traitors like us going to be allowed a say in how it’s run. And – as it descends into wreckage and ruin, it’ll all be your fault too.

    I know how proggies and ethnics and vibrants work, and the writing is on the wall. As you’ve said eloquently in the past, the third world is what it is because of the people that live there. Now they are here, and they are voting. What they’ve done to Africa, Venezuela, Haiti and Mexico – they will do here.

    Patriotism is a tough sell in the third world too.

    • When I turn on my laptop, a logo for Microsoft news comes up. “Trump Lied” seems to be the theme of most of the posts. It was heartening to find a headline today saying, “Speak no more of Socialism”, from the Washington Post no less, so I read it until I got to “The culture that Trump so ardently wants to protect is white, male, working-class and Christian. It is on the way out, and that produces resentment and fury. Cultural changes are wrenching…” Wow. Who knew?

  37. Then call me a sucker! I still love America and still get that thrill when I hear the National Anthem. I honor and respect the Patriots who made this Great Nation and remember them and their deeds.

    I did three tours in Vietnam but that was my duty not Patriotism. Getting married and creating a family, starting my own business, paying my taxes, being active in my community, supporting my church and most of all never forgetting my responsibility to my fellow Americans is really my way of passing on what my Forefathers passed to me.

    To me Patriotism is remembering where I came from and thanking the people who came before me by carrying on the ideals that make America Exceptional. I figure if I don’t help Make America Great Again who will, Maxine Waters? I also realize if it weren’t for all the un-American Americans we wouldn’t need the “Again”.

    • Which ancestors exactly are you referring to who made America “exceptional?” Certainly not the people who maneuvered America into two world wars, or who passed the 1965 Immigration Act, or who destroyed Freedom of Association, or who passed the Federal Reserve Act…

    • Hoagie, you revere a once great institution that has been compromised but continues. You’re like a soldier who is loyal to a command structure that betrayed its soldiers.

      The radical leftists are correct when they say America means massive immigration and anti-white-male policies, because that is what America has meant for as long as most of us have been alive. To the degree you support current America out of love for old America, you are a sucker.

    • Hoagie, you are worshipping a nation that no longer exists.

      Specifically what did America gain from our 58,209 brothers lost in Vietnam? What was the lesson we should pass on?

    • What responsibility do you have to your “fellow Americans” – when a great many of them look upon as nothing more than a milk cow – or even worse wish you were dead?

      I see an awful lot of bleating about “paying my taxes” as a some sort of patriotic exercise. It seems an exercise in abject ignorance if you ask me. To start with the Federal income tax was a progressive project. And the guys who endlessly bitch about the 13th amendment have a point: it was passed like so many bills are passed these days: in a deceitful manner.

      And that’s not even taking into account WHAT those taxes are used for. Funding the invasion of this country thru bringing in immigrants from non-compatible parts of the world – and sending taxpayer dollars to NGO’s who act as an arm of the government to facilitate that – is not what I would consider a “patriotic” act.

      Zman has mentioned numerous times what a swamp the area around D.C. has become. You do know that the areas around D.C. have some of the highest income areas of the entire country don’t you? Where do you think that money comes from? That comes from the taxes you “patriotically” pay so willingly.

      If you go back 100 years or more – there was much more frank talk about how “patriotic” it was to just willingly hand over your hard earned income to the Federal government so they could piss it away. I live in an area where there are local cemeteries that you can walk thru and pretty easily find the graves of men who participated in the revolution. I’m pretty sure if you talked to the ghosts of those men from the revolution – or even the ghosts of men who lived in this country before the turn of the 20th century – they’d think you a goddam fool to equate patriotism with taxation.

  38. This thread of “the message,” “the narrative,” really resonates. They truly have nothing to offer so our “elites” are now just marketing their reality show 24X7. The cat ladies and fem men eat it up just like they did the Kardashian’s, to the rest of us it’s just boring.

  39. “…dig up their bones and smash them to bits on the capital mall”. Absolutely. If there was justice regarding the mass immigration catastrophe the immigrants would be politely transported home and the immigration crime trials for the open-borders politicians would start at 8 pm with live hangings beginning at 10.

    • How apropos. How Stalinesque. What goes around always comes back around. And they really are asking for it.

      • Epaminondas – what goes around is already here. My comment was hyperbole to make the point.

        • Yes. And I agree with your statement, hyperbole and all. If the left want a return to Stalinism, we should give them our version of it. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, no?

          • Epaminondas – I began using the phrase “immigration crime trials” about a decade ago. I’m no expert but in the past haven’t there been “war crime trials”? We know that massive immigration is openly intended to destroy you and your nation – so isn’t that war? I can still see my implied link between “war crime trials” and “immigration crime trials” but, no, I do not see the connection to Stalin.

          • He’s their hero. And yes, I’ve traveled down the path of your logic. If this really, REALLY is an existential struggle, why are we pulling our punches???

      • You are entirely off the mark Epaminondas. Under your skewed view, we would not be able to prosecute anyone for past crimes. Illegal aliens broke the law. They have demonstrated in that very act that they do not recognize or abide by the rule of law. A huge percentage have committed further criminal acts in this country. OF COURSE THEY SHOULD BE “POLITELY TRANSPORTED HOME” and of course those who opened our nation to the invasion should be prosecuted. This has nothing to do with Stalin. We are NOT seizing Mexico and Canada and making them our client states. We are MERELY PROTECTING OUR NATION AND IMPOSING THE RULE OF LAW UPON A SEGMENT OF THE POPULATION THAT HAS REJECTED IT. As you may be able to tell, you have me quite perturbed, as it is nonsense such as yours, which you think sounds like some sort of succinct intellectual criticism of a policy you would oppose, that promotes the HELL that we are living in. SO, YOU WANT THESE CRIMINAL INVADERS HERE, THEN YOU AND ALL LIKE YOU CAN TAKE THEM–ALL OF THEM–INTO YOUR HOMES, PAY FOR THEIR MEDICAL BILLS, PAY FOR THEIR FOOD, PAY FOR THEIR ANCHOR BABIES, PAY FOR THEIR LEGAL BILLS, AND PAY FOR THEIR WELFARE. If the Progressive-Fascist Radical Left–of which you clearly are a part–want to save these invaders, then YOU TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEM–ALL OF THEM–FOREVER. Stalin, by the way, instituted policies that led to the deaths of some 35M people. Get real, jackass.

        • Why not take Canada? Granted they aren’t really the problem but a State that does what a lot of us want to be will already be an international pariah and its not like China won’t immediately invade Taiwan the moment the US looks like it won’t come to its aid

          Grab land while you can’t as they aren’t making any more, well outside of Holland but you get my drift

          We don’t want Mexico though, too much trouble and in the long term someone will try to make the now vengeful deported Mexicans into Americans

          If we make a New America it is for English Speaking European descended people, preferably Anglos

          With equal pleasure I have as often taken notice, that Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country, to one united people; a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs, and who, by their joint counsels, arms and efforts, fighting side by side throughout a long and bloody war, have nobly established their general Liberty and Independence.

          John Jay Federalist 2

          That is what we are trying to get closer to not Pan Europa

          • You are right, it is.

            Sometimes my impatience makes me think I am the reincarnation of E.E. Cummings or something.

          • Moving both borders north would seem the best way to prevent a ruinous continental war. The Queen’s not in a position to protest much, either.

          • Alzaebo,
            Come visit us in Texas. The southern border has already moved north.

          • I think you are joking about taking Canada … but no! Have you been there lately? A patchwork of a hundred imported ethnicities plus the “First Nations,” all looking out for themselves and trying to ignore the others. We’ve got enough toxic diversity without annexing more.

        • Judas Priest, people. Epiminondas was saying the Left creates Stalins. He was agreeing with Juss Saeyn.

          Zman, you have outdone yourself yet again!
          As Saml Adams said, now we don’t merely tolerate it, we have to ‘celebrate’ it.

    • The immigrants have to go back, legal or illegal. I would reserve the “politely” for legal immigrants.For illegals and their protectors, whatever works….

      • It has been politically difficult to commence mass deportations. Some people will leave voluntarily if we implement E-Verify, more will leave if Plyler is overturned, even more would leave if jus soli was abolished. But many are going to have to be paid to leave. The current cost of an EB-5 visa is 500K, a similar payment will have to be made to get people to renounce citizenship. Due to our governments ravenous appetite for taxes, expatriating is somewhat difficult. We should change that to incentive the incompatible (including white liberals) to leave.

        • Plato O Plomo is well understood and we can just mint the money if we want. If said future state were to pull this off, they’ll be a pariah for a decade or more and won’t be trading much.

          Might as well take advantage of it .

          • Western immigration policies since 1945 have served to remove the most capable High IQ professionals from the Third World. These people would be the loudest voices against corruption in their home nations. Instead their remittances shield the cost of corruption, and eventually their useless relatives come here via “family reunification”.

            The Third World also has lost the benefit of efficient colonial administrators. Paying white liberals to leave could restore this, and be honest answer for their white guilt. I’m sure the ANC would love to exchange Boers for Berkeley grads.

        • The progressives running this country have already dug this country a very very deep hole with their over-spending. If you think they’re going to “find” the money to pay back people who have sunk $500k to $1m into this country just to come here – you’re not paying attention.

          People who dump that kind of money just to come here aren’t the bulk of the problem anyway – except for the fact that most of them are likely repeating the talking points of the progressive cloud. It’s all the illegals and the anchor babies and the chain migration that is the problem. Quite frankly I think that problem gets solved by just making it VERY uncomfortable for them to stay here. And that is something we don’t need anybody’s approval to do.

          What I see out of the bulk of the comments to these columns just seem like a big circle jerk quite frankly. I see a whole bunch of “let’s deport them all” – which we’re so far away from getting to happen that it’s not much more than a fantasy.

          Here’s a clue – if you can’t even get birthright citizenship revoked so that illegals can’t come here any more and spit out an anchor baby and then get on the dole because “it’s for the children” – then the likelihood of ever getting to a historical and political place where we can start talking about mass deportation is between zero and nothing.

          So keep jerking it and we’ll all just sit around and watch the problem get worse.

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