The Great Questioning

A popular topic among the members of the alt-right is the red pill moment. This is the event or experience that opened the person’s eyes to some reality. In the case of the alt-right, it’s more often the JQ they have in mind, but it can be race or even just politics. I’ve talked to many people flying the alt-right flag, who came from libertarianism. The campaign of Ron Paul seems to have turned many people into dissidents. My bet is the biggest source of recruits into the Dissident Right is libertarianism, followed by Buckley Conservatism.

Something I’ve noticed about the world of dissident politics is it is increasingly cut-off from mainstream conservatism and maybe politics in general. I know in my own case, I stopped watching Sunday chat shows twenty years ago and stopped watching cable chat shows in the Bush years. About five years ago, when I started blogging, I stopped reading mainstream conservative sites. I still check in on National Review or the Weekly Standard once in a while, but I can’t remember the last time I found anything relevant.

It’s not that people on our side of the great divide are ghettoized, there is some of that, but that conventional politics no longer seems relevant. Progressive assaults on speech get a lot of discussion, but this barely registers in the mainstream political chatter. The far left media doxxing people gets some attention, but again, that never gets discussed in mainstream circles. Otherwise, the old time fights between “conservatives” and “liberals” that used to define politics seem to have lost all relevance to our side.

It’s hard to know about these things. In my daily life, I meet some people who think like me and mostly people on the far left. Friends will mention Tucker Carlson on occasion, but I can’t remember the last time someone mentioned Hannity to me or Rush Limbaugh. Yet, the former is the top cable talker and the latter remains the top radio talker. In other words, my perspective on these things could be warped by the fact that I spend my time reading dissident right web sites and following hate-thinkers on social media. I could be the weirdo.

That said, I can’t remember the last time a liberal friend or acquaintance mentioned someone on the conventional right. It’s all Trump and his secret allegiance with Putin for them. To a lesser degree they obsess over people like me and our plans to bring back slavery, roll back women’s rights and turn America into a medieval fortress. As a rule, the American Left has always obsessed over that which it sees as a genuine threat or that which is a mirror held up to them, forcing them to examine their own beliefs.

Anyway, this is a long wide up to something I was sent the other day. This piece by Michael Anton in the Claremont Review of Books is a long response to something in The Federalist. Apparently, the two writers are having a dispute about the social contract and how it is defined in America. The best I can tell, the Federalist guy is a NeverTrump loon still angry at Anton over his “Flight 93” article. Robert Tracinski appears to be a Rip Van Winkle sort of guy, struggling to come to terms with modern America.

There was a time, maybe, when a debate over social contract theory and its relevance to American politics, would have been interesting to me. Today, it seems about as relevant as a debate over the proper way to saddle a unicorn so Sasquatch can ride it without falling off. Like the state of nature model, popular with Enlightenment philosophers, we know without a doubt that there is no such thing as a social contract. The current American conception of it is most certainly nonsense. America is not an idea.

That’s a point I often write about here and others take up in other places. It’s not the conclusions of liberal democracy that are the problem. it is the premise of it. When you start from the social contract and the state of nature, the conclusion is inevitable. That’s the problem with liberal democracy. It can only lead to one end and that is the obliteration of culture, which is what defines a people. Once the culture dies, the people soon follow, which explains the falling fertility rates, marriage rates and the migrant invasions.

Now, the point of this post, if there is one, is not to argue for or against any particular conception of the social contract. It’s just an example of the growing divide between those in dissident politics and those who remain trapped in conventional politics. The project on our side is to ask how it is we have arrived at this point and to then question the premises upon which is built the old order. For example, if the natural order is not a voluntary agreement among men, then what is it and what would a modern version of it resemble?

The great divide may not simply be a dispute about the nature of man. That’s certainly a big part of what separates a reader here and a reader at Reason, National Review or The Nation. The one side embraces the diversity of man, while the other embraces the blank slate The difference also extends to topics that have long been considered axiomatic. As we seem to be heading into a denouement of the long Calvin – Rousseau dynamic, many of us are questioning the foundations of the liberal order and the Enlightenment itself.

180 Comments
Most Voted
Newest Oldest
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Dirtnapninja
Dirtnapninja
5 years ago

Once you red pill, your frame shifts. I used to listen to alot of local talk radio. After exposure to the dissident right I cant bring myself to listen to it anymore. My frame has shifted, and the guys I used to listen to don’t sound compelling. They aren’t saying anything important. They are are saying things but their words are hollow and superficial, unwilling to address real issues. I see them as controlled opposition now, the Vichy Right. I feel like John Nada from the movie “They Live” who wanders around and sees everything in a radically different way… Read more »

Dirtnapninja
Dirtnapninja
Reply to  thezman
5 years ago

I detest Reagan romanticism, as I have come to detest 50’s romanticism. While i think 80’s society is infinity preferable to modern Pozmerica, it was Reagan who empowered the neocons and latinoised california and texas. He has become a kind of tribal fetish for the Vichy Right, brought out to mobilise nostalgic boomercons and those of us in Gen X who remember how much better things were then. But he is an unworthy idol. The same as the 50’s. Here the hard truth..the left’s critiques of the 50’s arent wrong. It saw the massification of everything, the systematic destruction of… Read more »

Arch Stanton
Arch Stanton
Reply to  Dirtnapninja
5 years ago

Detest? Mighty strong word to use when talking about Ronaldus Magnus. He had his flaws, but he was so much better than the previous administrations and the turmoil since 1968. By your self-description as Gen X, I’m guessing you weren’t a tax paying adult during the Reagan years. Those of us who were the direct recipients of Reagan’s tax & fiscal policies were mighty grateful for those 8 years. I don’t necessarily yearn for the return of those days, neither am I willing to trash a generally good President. But He did turn a whole lot of us into conservatives,… Read more »

Member
Reply to  Arch Stanton
5 years ago

He didn’t start the globalization engine, but he sure stoked the fire. Offshoring, mass immigration, and, on the cultural side, divorce on demand, are the offspring of Reaganism.

Hoagie
Hoagie
Reply to  MBlanc46
5 years ago

That’s not so. Offshoring and divorce on demand were being done and promoted before Reagan. And the “cultural slide” arguably started in the sixty’s with the left infiltrating universities, the media and Hollywood. As far as mass immigration that was the brainchild of Fat Ted Kennedy in the 60’s also. Reagan was the best man we had at the time we needed one. Don’t belittle the guy. Just like the vulgar, mouthy gutter snipe Trump is the man we needed now. Perhaps mostly because no one else can drive a leftist nuts faster than Trump. That alone is worth my… Read more »

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Hoagie
5 years ago

The “cultural slide” has been going on forever, in the eyes of the contemporaries of each age. Wars, especially (think the Civil War and WW2), enable historians to mask the cultural slide taking place by changing the subject. The wars also tend to accelerate the slide, when all is said and done. Maintaining a culture is a matter of fixing one end of the house while another part rots away, and moving along making repairs faster than the forces of decay can do their work. You are never done, and the house looks quite different over time.

Psych101
Psych101
Reply to  Hoagie
5 years ago

Ronald Reagan’s greatest acting role took place in the White House. But you’ll never convince his groupies of that.
Most people spend their entire lives idolizing others, never realizing they play groupy to fake personalities, instead of working on themselves and learning to live their own life as lead director.

Someone
Someone
Reply to  Psych101
5 years ago
A.B. Prosper
A.B. Prosper
Reply to  Hoagie
5 years ago

Ronald Reagan signed the nations 1st No Fault divorce law in 1969 and as such is directly responsible for the problems after. He was practically patient zero for the divorce Poz He also signed the 1986 machine gun bill and the much worse immigration reform of 1986 which gave us millions of central Americans and got us nothing in the way of future enforcement Tell me again why this guy was such a great “Conservative” president because I’m not seeing it If you are talking social Conservatism , Carter was far more of a Trad Con than divorcée Reagan was… Read more »

Quartermaster
Quartermaster
Reply to  Hoagie
5 years ago

Reagan signed the bill allowing “no fault divorce” in California. He did it because of the sewer his first wife drug him through when she frivorced him.

Dave
Dave
Reply to  Arch Stanton
5 years ago

A sure sign of the impoverishment of the conservative position in this country is the worship of Reagan. When we get a Putin, or an Orban, then you can talk about greatness. Trump is as close as we can get right now, and it remains to be seen how effective he will be. When we have a leader who boldly puts Jewish oligarchs in prison and chases the rest out of the country, and proudly champions the rights of the dominant population and it’s culture while actively suppressing the poz, then you can talk about greatness. Reagan was not that… Read more »

calsdad
calsdad
Reply to  Dirtnapninja
5 years ago

Despite being in my teens and early 20’s during Reagan’s era in office – I don’t have the same romanticism for him that a lot of right leaning men I know my same age do. Probably because at the time I was too busy actually have to earn a living, put myself thru school – and just generally survive. I think it needs to be pointed out however – that Reagan was managed right from the start. The fake news media was hard at work even back then – and Walter Cronkite in particular was used to threaten Reagan and… Read more »

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  calsdad
5 years ago

Tremendous comment, carlsdad. I agree that the little-mentioned Council are the men behind the curtain. Any info on the CFR and Trump? (Whether handled or not, I’d like a decent guess on what we might expect.) Also, talk radio is 15 to 20% of the radio market. Heck yes we’re the wierdos. That’s perfectly alright, it seems to be the way significant movements and brilliant cultural innovations work. I’m in, all the way, do or die. I cannot, and will not, love the lie. In the immortal words of james wilson: “The first step along that path is to realize… Read more »

Psych101
Psych101
Reply to  Alzaebo
5 years ago

The masses still refuse to accept the fact that the shadow organizations (CFR, Bilderbergs, etc) actually have any influence on our elections, instead they still play by the same rules their parents and grandparents did, then cannot and will not understand they’ve been played the fool, again and again.
America as we knew it WILL go under, on account of brainwashing and apathy.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  calsdad
5 years ago

Interesting story calsdad, thanks

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Dirtnapninja
5 years ago

Reagan handled very different problems in a very different era. He was first and foremost trying to take down the Soviet Union w/o setting off Breshnev’s 40,000 nukes. I think he was a great leader for that issue. Saying ‘he didn’t handle/prevent the problems we face today’ is a little like blaming Churchill for destroying Nazism ‘and thereby opening Europe up for multi culturalism’. Doh!!, one doesn’t follow from the other. We happen to know that Churchill did not want Britain to become multicultural b/c he said so during his 1950s premiership but regrettably by then he was in his… Read more »

calsdad
calsdad
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
5 years ago

Churchill deserves a little bit of blame – as does the FDR administration – for any multi culturalism that followed after the Allied victory in WW2. The fact of the matter is that the FDR administration was riddled with commies. The Lend Lease Aid that we sent to the commies helped mightily in their war against the Nazis. The Frankfurt School moved to NYC after a stop in Geneva because they were fleeing the Nazis. We could have said “no thanks – you’re not getting in” – same as they did to Jewish refugees. Do you think we’d still see… Read more »

Member
Reply to  calsdad
5 years ago

Agreed.

Churchill should be held in utter contempt. Among the cucks, the Churchill cult is almost as big as the Lincoln cult.

Random Dude on the Internet
Random Dude on the Internet
Reply to  Dirtnapninja
5 years ago

When it comes to Reagan worship or even when some clown says “Dubya wasn’t too bad, he was a true conservative”, it’s always good to roll out The Conservative Test: ask them what their conservative hero did to actually conserve anything. We now live in a world of ten year old drag queens, men in dresses can take a dump in the women’s restroom, rape kangaroo courts are set up in every university where the accused are not allowed to defend themselves, etc. Seems to me like these TrueCon heroes did little or no conservation of the culture at all.… Read more »

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Random Dude on the Internet
5 years ago

‘…Trump, who is not a culture warrior guy at all’

Uhm, Trump is in the white house because of the culture war. He is at once both a symptom of it (the man is a pop culture icon, having run reality TV shows) and an expression of rebellion against it.

In an interesting way the Trump presidency is both an expression of advanced decadence and a rejection of it at the same time. He is the political equivalent of ‘particle AND wave’, which suggests you cant understand him only via logic.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Random Dude on the Internet
5 years ago

Reagan wanted to prevent the nuclear war, planned and schemed and compromised, and did so. (He laid out his deliberate plan in diaries he kept when in his 30s.)

I don’t blame him for being as blue-pilled as the rest of us.

Member
Reply to  Dirtnapninja
5 years ago

Most of the immigration and cultural Marxism we are suffering from today came of age in the 50s through mid 60s.

Troll King(-36)
Troll King(-36)
Reply to  Dirtnapninja
5 years ago

Curious, that’s precisely what the movie they live is really about. It’s based on the book Twilight Eyes, where one boy is born with the power to see that some people are really goblins. Guess what the goblins symbolize!

Uncle_Waspy
Member
Reply to  Dirtnapninja
5 years ago

They Live….good analogy. The majority are locked into the Narrative, their powerful psychological-filters reject anything that runs contrary to it. Consider the wailing and outrage on Facebook over that big game hunting Minnesota dental surgeon. What about abortion Dr. Kermit Gosnell’s House of Horrors? Where was the outrage over his trophies (hands and feet in jars of formaldehyde)? Most people have probably never heard of the story, and if you told them the details they would probably look at you like you were from Mars. They simply can’t process a story in which a black man exploits the misery of… Read more »

Hoagie
Hoagie
Reply to  Uncle_Waspy
5 years ago

Big government did not turn a blind eye. Big government financed and protected him. I wish I could say they are only guilty of turning a blind eye.

De Beers Diamonds
De Beers Diamonds
Reply to  Uncle_Waspy
5 years ago

The outrage over hunting charismatic megafauna is entirely racial in nature. If it was being done by black sportsballers it would be lauded, the the hunting industry would be well served to recruit wealthy black clientele. Rural Africans don’t seem to take issue with hunting as it brings jobs, and the megafauna damage crops/livestock. The main opposition is from First World whites that believe hunters are causing extinction. The real cause is black and Chinese poachers.

Corn
Corn
Reply to  Dirtnapninja
5 years ago

I like the term Vichy Right. I need to remember that.

Tax Slave
Tax Slave
Reply to  Corn
5 years ago

Good one!

John Hinds
Reply to  Dirtnapninja
5 years ago

The number of people still listening to Limbaugh or Hannity is likely a pretty good measure of just how large the task ahead remains for the dissdent right.

John Hinds
Reply to  John Hinds
5 years ago

Furthermore, if Hannity/Limbaugh were really committed they would be having people like Sailer or our Zman on their shows, or, at least be sending traffic their way.

Member
Reply to  John Hinds
5 years ago

That wouldn’t please their sponsors. It won’t happen.

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  John Hinds
5 years ago

John Hinds, that is true, but while Hannity and Rush mostly “get it”, they are not particularly interested in having people come on their shows and challenge their ideas and assumptions. They would rather hold the role of ringmaster in their own circus tents. That state of affairs almost always comes about when someone gets a big media presence.

james wilson
james wilson
Reply to  Dutch
5 years ago

That’s all true, but at bottom it may be that people who stay so busy 24-7–Hannity is the best example–are not reflective. They are in the business of talking and instructing, not listening. Nobody became dissident right by talking. The first step along that path is to realized you’ve been had.

jimvonyork
jimvonyork
Reply to  Dirtnapninja
5 years ago

My friends laugh at me when I tell them, I don’t listen to Rush anymore, he is too far left wing for me

calsdad
calsdad
Reply to  Dirtnapninja
5 years ago

They Live – excellent movie reference.

“I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass – and I am all out of bubble gum!! ”

Pretty much sums up what I think a lot of red pilled men think these days.

Glenfilthie
Glenfilthie
Member
5 years ago

I came here from the NRO crowd. Like you I was surrounded by progs and lefties, maybe the odd cuck. When I started experiencing the blowback of leftist culture I was told to shut up and take it because reasons. When no reasons came I was done. I flirted with neo-reaction, but those guys weren’t much better than progs. They told me to shut up because reasons too. Moved into the alt right and ran into shysters like Cerno and Vox Day… and when Milo came along I packed up and left. What impresses me about the dissidents is that… Read more »

Tax Slave
Tax Slave
Reply to  Glenfilthie
5 years ago

Excellent comment!

Sidvic
Sidvic
Member
Reply to  Glenfilthie
5 years ago

“Patience and perseverance are the order of the day” Yeah but… I follow south africa closely. When Black rule was established, i gave it 5 years tops. 20+ now, and they still have liberal whites, although fewer to be sure. My boss is a Boer who came to the US, because SA is so shitty. He recently adopted two children from somali, one with disabilities. (new immigrants woohoo!). I guess what i’m trying to convey (rambling about) is that i used to think that whites had balls. That when the nonsense started cutting into their ass, they would put a… Read more »

Dave
Dave
Reply to  Sidvic
5 years ago

At times I feel as you do, but remember that most white people are not adopting disabled brownies from overseas. Most whites go along to get along lest they lose their jobs and/or social standing. You don’t judge white people by what they parrot in public. You judge by where they decide to live and where their kids go to school and who they socialize with. The overwhelming majority of white liberals are utter hypocrites about race, but they know, deep down, maybe even only on a sub conscious level, what is going on and they respond accordingly in terms… Read more »

Reply to  Dave
5 years ago

When leftists talk about buying homes in “good neighborhoods” that have “good schools” they certainly aren’t picturing Paco living next door and V’Antavius down the street.

Yet still they smugly brandish their leftist piety.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  RippedTopShelf
5 years ago

Oh yes, hypocrisy w/o ticking people off is an art to master if you want to rise in society lol

RafterRat
RafterRat
Reply to  Dave
5 years ago

I sometimes work with a 32 year old “open borders” child who just bought a house with her fiance. It’s in a nice town that is probably 90% white. She is quick to point out that her house is on the “good” side of town, not on the side next to the overwhelmingly brown ghetto city that it abuts. Deep down, as you say, she knows she’s a hypocrite. As much as I like her – she’s a good worker when you can get her head out of her phone ( Millennials! ) – I also can’t wait to see… Read more »

baltbuc
baltbuc
Reply to  Glenfilthie
5 years ago

I came from the NRO crowd as well. But do I have to be the first to mention the great John Derbyshire, and his boxes of red pills that he handed out?

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
5 years ago

The key red pill is understanding that Egalitarianism and the Blank Slate are lies, and have been known to be lies for centuries, created by academic marxists, and that the key purpose of most propaganda is to reinforce those lies…

Wolf Barney
Wolf Barney
Reply to  pyrrhus
5 years ago

Egalitarianism and Blank Slate nonsense are foundational points. Influential guys like Dinesh D’Souza and Charlie Kirk, preaching “Dems R the Real Racists” get young people going in the wrong direction.

V. Pejorative
V. Pejorative
Reply to  pyrrhus
5 years ago

This is the way to communicate. Simple, clear, and striking right at the foundation of the problem.

It’s also important to keep repeating these ideas. Calmly and without anger. It takes a few exposures before people overcome their initial (programmed) emotional reaction.

james wilson
james wilson
Reply to  V. Pejorative
5 years ago

It’s a process. You tell a man that the world is in fact round, not flat, and he knows that you are either a fool, a weirdo, or trying to put something over on him. But you tell him the clues he can gather to demonstrate it’s round, so that he will in time start tripping over them.

BestGuest
BestGuest
Reply to  pyrrhus
5 years ago

Smart people understand this whether they are willing to admit it or not. That’s what’s behind the calls to halt/defund research into the genetics of human group-differences in various traits. But behind that is the belief that it’s better to be “nice” than to be truthful when the facts are unpleasant.

Troll King(-36)
Troll King(-36)
5 years ago

Is it obtuse to comment that the subtext of all this is biology? High faultin terms like social contract and rights of man are small adjustments in quality of civilization within predominantly European countries. Those words ceased to be relevant when the subtext of all political debate became tribal. Like that president of Singapore stated, when there are substantial fractions of different racial groups with strong distinct biological proclivities, people vote along tribal interests. The most common model for where we are headed is a Latin American style country, with a large colored underclass supported by “intellectuals” asking for an… Read more »

Epaminondas
Member
5 years ago

That entire argument about our “democratic traditions” is wearing thin. Democracy has historically played a very small role in our history. It did not last long in Greece, and representative government in Rome was essentially a long, drawn out food fight among aristocrats. And people forget that most of the Lockean concepts about freedom were incubated shortly after the horrors of the Thirty Years War, which ended in 1648. The basic human impulse of driving while looking in the rear view mirror was pretty much on display with John Locke. Essentially, we are a reactive species crawling around in our… Read more »

Din C. Nuffin
Din C. Nuffin
Reply to  Epaminondas
5 years ago

The problem with “Democracy” (majority rules) is we aren’t doing it right. South Africa understands democracy, talking about changing their constitution to take the white man’s land without compensation. They have the majority, they use it. We have the majority, but rather than rule, we appoint Jewish and Latino women to the Supreme court out of some misguided sense of fairness? If we are going with “democracy” rather than Republic, let’s do it right.

De Beers Diamonds
De Beers Diamonds
Reply to  Din C. Nuffin
5 years ago

Whites are only 4% of the births in South Africa, and 8% of the population at large. This is down from 25% a century ago. The current of black politics is to demand that as whites are only 8% of the people, they get only 8% of national wealth and jobs. And as that number is shrinking, blacks must always be getting more. The only way for whites to gain power is to raise their fertility and concentrate in a single region. A tall order, compounded by the fact that the Indian minority is (2%) is viciously anti-white.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  De Beers Diamonds
5 years ago

“compounded by the fact that the Indian minority is (2%) is viciously anti-white.”

They hate the ones (the British) who brought them to the dance, more than their African brothers who genocided them next door.

I met an Indian from Uganda; Idi Amin killed most of the South Asians there, and drove out the rest. Oddly, I had never heard of it, and not a peep from the Holocaust crowd.

I think the anti-white movement is soon to get very, terribly real. Still, that does tell ya who the good guys really are.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  De Beers Diamonds
5 years ago

I dunno about the Indians of SA but I know about the Indians of India and they LOVE whitie (and, btw, no Im not Indian myself but Im involved, peripherally, in tiger conservation). I got into a bit of skirmish w both ‘the sole proprioter of the blog’ and some of his most die-hard fans when said proprioter made comments about Indians that I found to be unfairly derogatory. My thinking is this, us whities are gonna need an ally in this world where blacks, muzzies and Chinese are all starting to smell some real white blood. And the only… Read more »

streamfortyseven
streamfortyseven
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
5 years ago

It’s “just gonna happen” as long as we keep paying for it. When the money runs out, the kids either starve or find another way to die, either case, it’s a check on population growth.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  streamfortyseven
5 years ago

A majority of pre-school children in the US are non-white today. What are you gonna do to avoid being in minority?? As Z put it, barring some genocide or great plague that only or overwhelmingly targets non-whites, realizing that whites will be minority in the US is the final red pill. (some might call it a black pill but not sure). Face the facts bro.

streamfortyseven
streamfortyseven
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
5 years ago

It’s actually a very simple question – what happens when the EBT cards run dry? No more “free money”. What happens to the dependent populations then? Fifty percent of the high school graduates in Detroit can neither read nor write – and those are the ones who actually graduate. They’re unemployable, they come from generations of dependent people. Some of them may be parents of the preschoolers you talk about – and those preschoolers may well end up in the same situation – and probably will, too. If they’re unemployable and they’re dependent on taxpayer money to survive, when the… Read more »

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  streamfortyseven
5 years ago

You re basically talking about societal collapse, SHTF style. Granted, then all bets are off. But that might include bets that favor us.

David Wright
Member
5 years ago

I still have to live with my shame of having read or listened to George Will or for that matter, Mona Charen (my god!). My migration from normycon started in Reagan’s second term. When Buckley started his neocon aided purge of Sobran, Buchanan etc. I went with them.

Blogs like Z’s or certain Youtube channels plus a handful of dissident rightists keeps me informed now. I kived long enough to see Sam Francis vindicated. That’s somethin’

Allen
5 years ago

My turning point was the Ross Perot campaign. No one ever really gave substantial counters to his points, they just demonized him. My trust factor of the existing political system fell to zero at that point.

DLS
DLS
5 years ago

I came to conservatism through the National Review gateway, but had to give up on them when the RINOs they had been pushing for years finally got into power and refused not only to follow through on their promises, but actually opposed the one man who is giving them 80% of what they claimed to stand for all those years. I can now see it was all a game of masturbatory libertarian preening while making a living within the liberal Overton window.

Shrugger
Shrugger
5 years ago

My red pill was a book by Tom Baugh, “Starving the Monkeys”. Then I read “Hologram of Liberty” by Boston T. Party. (So much for muh Constitution.) The Sunday shows and conventional politics immediately became irrelevant and I started anticipating the collapse and realignment of the social and economic order.

We may not be circling the drain yet, but you can see it from here.

Troll King(-36)
Troll King(-36)
Reply to  Shrugger
5 years ago

I always thought that I must be fundamentally retarded or some sort of throw back to the 1700s because no political platform or discourse in the media made any sense to me. Then one day I happened to pick up pat buchanans 2008 book in a little library where I used to study. He laid it out so simply, the neocon agenda, the reasons we were in Iraq, etc etc. It was similar to the things going on right around me. it all made so much sense, I nodded all the way through. Within a week I was reading Burnham,… Read more »

Wolf Barney
Wolf Barney
5 years ago

My first red pill swallowed was reading a Sam Francis article back in the early nineties. Right before that, I can remember watching Bill Kristol, who was presented as a conservative, on one of the talking head shows. I considered myself conservative, but nothing Kristol said hit home with me. I was confused as to what camp I belonged. Sam Francis appeared at the right moment and it was like the sun rising and I never looked back.

Din C. Nuffin
Din C. Nuffin
Reply to  Wolf Barney
5 years ago

Kristol said “Gore is annoying” after a TV debate. It was perfect, and reflected my opinion precisely. I looked into him, and found the “Weekly Standard” was almost broke, so i subscribed to help them out. I renewed faithfully, and enjoyed most of the articles, especially the humor of P.J. O’Rourke until the announcement of Trump. Almost every article was critical of Trump after that, and i got tired of it even though i wasn’t a Trump fan, and cancelled. Now i see he is thinking of running against Trump in 2020. What an idiot. But he was right about… Read more »

Wolf Barney
Wolf Barney
Reply to  Din C. Nuffin
5 years ago

Kristol was right about Gore in a broken clock kind of way. Or a blind squirrel finding a nut kind of way.

bob sykes
5 years ago

I don’t know exactly when it happened to me, but it likely came out of my background in biology and the obvious reality of genetically based human biodiversity. Nowadays I ignore the MSM and almost all cable and broadcast news. I do like the NYT crossword puzzles, however. I occasionally listen to Limbaugh, Hannity and Carlson but not regularly, and never a whole broadcast from beginning to end. I have contempt for the libertarians. I like Trump because he is a loose cannon, and the only source of creative destruction in our time. No doubt the Deep State/Cabal will become… Read more »

RWinNoVA
RWinNoVA
Reply to  bob sykes
5 years ago

Aside from eye-opening experiences, libraries used to be the only potential source of Red Pill moments; now it is the internet. We sometimes speak of gateway drugs to the dissident right. I can trace my journey through the various websites; the color of the pill on offer changing until it glows cherry red (hat tip, Zman). It’s also true that you can’t go home again; once truth has been glimpsed the former revelatory pundits become less relevant. I have a long list of websites I no longer visit, mostly because they cling to conventional political ideas and definitions. There’s no… Read more »

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  RWinNoVA
5 years ago

Reagan and Limbaugh were important elements of my journey. They not-so-much opened my eyes to new ideas, but instead gave me the perception that I was not alone in my thinking. The internet has broadened my thinking considerably, and I find that I migrate around quite a bit over time, with a couple of lodestar websites that I constantly return to. What to do with it all? Making sure the things that keep me up at night are worthy of my fretting, to be honest.

Reply to  RWinNoVA
5 years ago

I was once a regular reader of Ace of Spades and Instapundit. Now I find their civic nationalism nauseating. Claims in the comments sections that the alt-right is a leftist plot to make “true conservatives” look bad really get my eyes rolling.

Reed Hill
Reed Hill
Reply to  RippedTopShelf
5 years ago

I still read Ace of Spades quite a bit and I think he leans toward the dissident, although he hasn’t gotten of the CivNat bus yet. I think he might given enough time. Instapundit and his ilk like Bill Whittle are still nauseatingly BoomerCon at times, but otherwise decent fellows. Lots of folks on are side are ‘compromised’ by our relations with the opposite sex so the CivNat train is appealing and rolls on. I have a bunch of friends who are married to wonderful women who are Latinas or Asians of one flavor or another, most of them christian… Read more »

Kentucky Headhunter
5 years ago

I can’t remember when it was, but it can’t have been that long ago (geologically speaking), I saw Lou Dobbs being asked about “gridlock” in D.C. His response was that there wasn’t any gridlock, and as far as the GOP and the Dems were concerned everything was working just fine. I was like, “Hmmmm.”

Later on I saw a picture of Mitch McConnell yukking it up with Dem Senate leader at the time (HIS MORTAL ENEMY!!! WTF!!!) and the scales finally fell away from my eyes completely.

Member
5 years ago

Political theory is post facto rationalization. While a system is functioning, theory might elucidate some details, but it never accounts for the emergence of the system. When systems function well, it’s because they suit the character of the people who make up the system. Liberal democracy works for some folks. The Big Man works for others.

Ris Eruwaedhiel
Ris Eruwaedhiel
5 years ago

My journey to the Dissident Right began as a teenager with George Will. Then I borrowed a book from a local public library – The Suicide of the West by James Burnham. I was blown away. From 1985 to 1994 I subscribed to The National Review and was an admirer of Joseph Sobran and Peter Brimelow. The National Review was still politically incorrect at times; e.g., running ads from the South African Board of Tourism while apartheid was still in place. I let the subscription lapse because of the obvious embrace of neoconservativism. In 1987, I purchased a copy of… Read more »

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Ris Eruwaedhiel
5 years ago

Finally reading Gibbon (Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire). Despite the archaic writing style, the story is constructed as a set of fireside stories, each chapter dealing with an element of the story and a few of the players. One can argue about style and emphasis, but the thread I am already picking up is that the sweep of history is a thing all its own (in Gibbon’s view), and the “great men” or “turning points” are largely preordained, waiting for the specifics to fill in the details of the story. The Roman march from Republic to Empire to… Read more »

Kodos
Kodos
5 years ago

I stumbled into questioning the Enlightenment and Lockean liberalism, etc. perhaps a decade ago, but it was more in a spiritual/philosophical sense. I was more interested in the way that scientism and secularism made religious faith difficult to maintain. I came across references to Joseph de Maistre and JG Hamann and read Isaiah Berlin’s book about the latter. At the time I felt like this was a rather weird, esoteric thing to be investigating. Now it has, as you say, become more salient to actual politics/culture while the old left-right debate stuff is falling into irrelevance.

Haxo Angmark
5 years ago

first red pill moment came long ago, UC Berkeley 1966-69. When I noticed that 95% of the campus communists were Jews/Jewesses. 9/11 and it’s evident neo-con Zionist genesis closed out the (((System))) for me.

Coimhlint
Coimhlint
5 years ago

The first red pill I took was when my brother, searching for answers after his kids’ mother forced him out, turned me on to Heartiste et al. I was so ready for the message that I adopted it easily. Same thing happened to me once Trump started talking about walls and Mexicans. I had always wondered why the GOP always ceded ground to the lefties, but once I expanded my reading to this blog, amongst others, the word ‘uniparty’ made absolute sense to me. I think the red pill applies to all areas of life, not just politics.

Sean
Sean
5 years ago

Thank you, Z Man, for pointing out that there is no “social contract”. It’s a concept I hatefully detest. Like the slop the left liked to push in the 70’s about Affirmative Action being the “law of the land”. I often got a good laugh at a leftist when they couldn’t point out a single law confirming Affirmative Action. It was just another leftist post-horse, looking for know-nothings to embrace it. And I did this while I was in the Army! I stumped the EO/HR NCO with my question, “Name one LAW that confirms Affirmative Action”. Of course he was… Read more »

TomA
TomA
5 years ago

Evolution has been the natural process guiding the development of all life on the planet for about a billion years now. The civilization trait exists in just one species and has only been around for a few millennia. Natural order in the natural world arises from the culling process that occurs in a survival of the fittest environment. Civilization has fundamentally changed our environment and associated fitness drivers.

George
George
Member
5 years ago

Also, credit where credit is due: there is so much wrong with Ayn Rand, but she rips young people away from “the official consensus” in industrial quantities.

No one over 21 can take her seriously, but she sinks the goodthink ship out from under you, and then you’ve got to find your own shore.

She pulled me out of the bugmen in high school, and I never went back.

Frip
Member
5 years ago

My red pill was when I realized there were oceans of people like me. That I was not alone. That intelligent, normal men had explanations about my intuitions about race. For personal reasons my life kinda shut down from about 2013 to 2017. Barely paid attention to politics, or anything else in life. Then during the presidential campaign I kept over-hearing on other peoples’ TVs about an “Alt Right”. The TV always said they were neo-Nazi’s. So I didn’t ever bother looking into them. I knew the TV was exaggerating, but I figured it was only exaggerating about a bunch… Read more »

Member
5 years ago

While no one moment kept me from changing from an 18-year-old Goldwaterite to a standard-issue Leftist was that I just couldn’t accept that Happy Rockefeller was the oppressed and I was the oppressor. Homomania was just beginning then, and I couldn’t get past the yuck factor.

Random Dude on the Internet
Random Dude on the Internet
5 years ago

I’ve long since accepted that I have unconventional views that would make me look like a weirdo or a kook so I often just stay quiet or pretend to not care about politics. That or say something like “wow, things are really getting crazy” and leaving it at that. You could bring up The Most Important Graph in the World, Hart-Celler, etc. but it will either get you considered “that guy” or their eyes will just glaze over. The Red Pill is more like the Red IV as truths slowly get into your system in a slow drip. For me,… Read more »

George Orwell
George Orwell
Reply to  Random Dude on the Internet
5 years ago

I congratulate you on your long journey in a short time. That’s quite a trek. It’s funny how, now, raising mere factual issues like Sailer’s African population graph will brand you as a kook in Normieworld.

Frip
Member
Reply to  Random Dude on the Internet
5 years ago

Not to be a dick. But I don’t believe you were the Leftist you say you were. Anyone of the Right has had the red pill gene since birth. Which is to say, a mindset that recognizes bullshit and hates bullshit. There’s almost no way to start out true Left and end up True Right. Yes, I realize all the major figures who’ve switched. But they always had the aversion to BS. That’s the prime factor separating “Left” from “Right”. I just listened to another episode of Waking Up with Sam Harris. It’s deceptive. He’s actually a Right thinking hater… Read more »

Whiskey
Whiskey
5 years ago

My gateway drug was Rudyard Kiplings Kim. Read it age 12 and always stuck with me. The old imperialists were right.

We need our times Kipling. Instead we got Tom Clancy. Entertainment working on emotions creates stronger bonds than a political tract.

james wilson
james wilson
Member
Reply to  Whiskey
5 years ago

The British Imperialist writers were tremendously entertaining. including the hisotrians.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Whiskey
5 years ago

If you’re gonna compare Victorian to contemporary culture, I think you ll find that we re lagging in much more than just the poets of the time. Victoria’s age qas probably the zenith of Western civilization.

Tax Slave
Tax Slave
5 years ago

To Rush’s credit he rarely makes pronouncements on “doctrine” so to speak, but he is a highly astute observer of the left and he can usually predict their next move. I grow tired of listening to him because most of what he discusses is mainstream politics. Someone like Savage, an insufferable blow hard who loves toothless little poodles more than his fellow human beings, at least has a very uncanny instinct on issues and events so I might still tune in occasionally. But for the most part I too have given up on talk radio. Podcasts are the way to… Read more »

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Tax Slave
5 years ago

Can you imagine what his show will be the first few weeks after that f*cking little poodle dies? He’ll demand that Trump declare a month of worldwide mourning.

Jim Jones
Member
5 years ago

I find that Steve Sailer on Unz gives the most accurate view of the World

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Jim Jones
5 years ago

Steve Sailer is an excellent observer, researcher, and writer, but his tone of light mockery for the “foibles” of the left sours after too much exposure to the true nature of the rot. It’s fine for a while to joke that they’re absolutely nuts, but to suggest they perhaps don’t know what their actions are leading up to or how dangerous they are is thin gruel when, in reality, they want you and your children DEAD and all you hold dear destroyed, and they think that is funny. While some portion of his commentariat is wise and worth reading, far… Read more »

Doug
Doug
5 years ago

What’s relative to me is there’s a thing called cultural Marxism, a cult of sorts a very crazy ideology of destruction which wants to destroy everything I know, practice, cherish and love. I kind of have a problem with that, and have absolutely no intentions of being destroyed, and as things heat up, I’m ready to do my part as a Man of The West, Christian thank you very much. I think my legacy as a White Christian God fearing man speaks for itself, and implies everything good and right about being such a man in this great republic we… Read more »

John Hinds
Reply to  Doug
5 years ago

Rugged individualism is the best remedy for what ails us. The most one can do for the collective good is to look after himself. Nothing feels better than self reliance. Certainty: There are no collective solutions to individual problems.

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  John Hinds
5 years ago

Rugged individualism is one of the reasons that whites cannot respond as a group to the attacks from the anti-whites. It is one the clubs that our enemies beat us with.

In a white society, rugged individualism can improve people, although it is mostly attractive only to English-derived people in frontier environments. In a multiracial society, it suppresses our willingness to respond as a white collective and leaves us atomized and helpless.

If you respond to a post on the red pill with enthusiasm for rugged individualism, I suggest you have missed the point.

Doug
Doug
Reply to  LineInTheSand
5 years ago

Spoken like a true cuck. You can surrender, I’m not going to stop you. Have at it. If your so desperate to surrender to tyranny, that’s your right. If anything, it is resistance is futile cowards who are a worse kind of enemy of us Men of The Christian West, because you are the great deceivers among us. Your cognitive dissonance is rich and sophisticated. How bitter and hateful, such nasty envy. Now, your not a troll our cultural Marxist agent provocateur attempting to hijack this comment thread from discourse about liberty and freedoms?

Because your words are poison.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Doug
5 years ago

Doug, you re absolutely right about cultural Marxism. But LineintheSand has a point about rugged individualism. Blacks, browns, everyone else, see themselves as a group. Whites see themselves not as ‘white’ but as individuals. I like individualism but there’s a balance here. You talk about an existential war. Lemme tell you, no individual wins wars. There’s a reason the military is not hot on ‘rugged individualism’. Even if it has both its charms and its uses, in some contexts.

Doug
Doug
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
5 years ago

Rugged individualism is one of the most despised qualities of the cultural Marxist. A quality almost impossible to stamp out in Men who live by its precepts. Its obvious, lol around at the emasculation of men in the cities, metros, academia, and other Western institutions which have been converged by the long march. Seriously, good luck to you. Your going to be whishing you had some rugged individualists before this is over. Especially you Woman folk. You have been used as the most useful of dupes, what with the genocide of abortion, the woman of the cities have become whole… Read more »

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Doug
5 years ago

Look, your defense of ‘rugged individualism’ (why not just say ‘individualism’?) is kinda cute. But its’ pretty obvious you know nothing about how war or combat works, or even politics. You wanna defend your bugout w your AR when Mexican drug gangs or desperate hungry city dwellers storm through your neck of the woods looking for food, on your own?

That may make you brave, it certainly makes you stupid and hence dead.

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Doug
5 years ago

Everyone agrees that a strong guy who is good with a gun is useful in a local crisis. Our disagreement is that you refuse to see that many non-whites see themselves as a tribe against the whites but the whites are too deluded to acknowledge it.

Until whites stop saying, “I know this Mexican guy who works hard so we can’t exclude Hispanics,” we are going to lose. Most non-whites feel racial tribalism in a way that most whites can hardly imagine and that’s one of the reasons that libertarianism doesn’t fit reality.

Dave
Dave
Reply to  John Hinds
5 years ago

Utter nonsense. And 4 up votes so far !
Rugged individualism has cratered the West and left it open to ideological and demographic subversion and invasion.
Rugged individualism is destroying us.

Doug
Doug
Reply to  Dave
5 years ago

Aaaah. The chicken little moaning of resistance is futile. You miss the whole concept behind the individualism of Liberty. Everything begins with each of us before it is all of us. Have you ever wondered how such a tiny plurality was able to defeat the greatest Empire to exist, and to win for an idea nobody in recorded human history had before achieved? You come off as so contrite with your superiority of hatefulness. How sour and useless your words, cheap, how obsolete the excuses of the little totalitarians among us you sound to me. Too bad you have quit… Read more »

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Doug
5 years ago

“But think, if it was not for brave Americans before you…” https://nationalpolicy.institute/2012/01/17/what-the-founders-really-thought-about-race/

The founders were racial collectivists.

Doug
Doug
Reply to  John Hinds
5 years ago

Well I think that is really well and nicely said. Thank you for that. Appreciate you. You could not be any more accurate about the personal rewards and accomplishment of living day to day self determined, to strive to remain so, to persevere and never quit. Yes sir. That was one great insight you posted. I hope with all my heart others are inspired by your wisdom here. Bravo! There are so many elements here, from the truth it all begins with each of us, before it is all of us, for that rugged kind of plurality is indomitable, to… Read more »

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Doug
5 years ago

Radical Islam and cultural Marxism are two heads of the same Hydra, supported by the Left generally, institutions such as the UN, and many mainline Christian churches. A formidable set of foes. What they have in common is an empty space in the center, where the heart and soul of a person lives. Perhaps we do not exploit that so much, as simply stand against it. People with an empty space in their souls are ultimately mindless orcs, who make a lot of noise but don’t really stand for anything other than what they are told.

FellowDissident
FellowDissident
5 years ago

Back in the day a (((kid))) in my h.s. class befriended me. Over the years he inserted me into (((their))) society at very high levels and I witnessed firsthand the mental pathologies, drugging, scheming, lying, cheating, perversions, temple and community practices, and (((tribal))) loyalty. I kept trying to overlook as much as possible but (((these folks))) of Chicago and Glencoe just piled on continuously. Around the time I realized I was being screwed over by the (((new law firm))) my jogging partner had enticed me to join, some of you people were busy compiling and mapping data about (((leadership and… Read more »

George
George
Member
5 years ago

I rode straight in on the Derb train.

Christopher S. Johns
Christopher S. Johns
5 years ago

Social Contract? Our elites ripped up the social contract (which for brevity’s sake, I’ll call the terms of the post-Civil War constitution and its regional accommodations), perhaps because they were bored with it’s success, and decided around 1964-65 to depose the old citizenry without their consent and import a new people to rule over. They succeeded beyond their wildest imaginings. Predictably, this has resulted in ever deepening social and political chaos, which after festering for many years has now entered a crisis phase. It’s why we’re here. We’ve noticed, even though we weren’t supposed to and have been scolded by… Read more »

fodderwing
fodderwing
5 years ago

Bumped into my Congressman at the cigar shop two days ago and had a long, informative chat. He’s conservative, principled, sees himself as fighting for all the right things, but I got the sense that in regards to the dissident right, he knows we’re out here, but he doesn’t know where we are. Any ideas on when that might change?

Ursula
Ursula
Reply to  fodderwing
5 years ago

We need to organize. The left has tons of email lists, electronic campaigns, which people forward to their friends and families and that grows the email lists, have meetups and protests. Since dissident rights are not pozzed whiners getting into everyone else’s business, we’re not out in the streets. There’s a lot going on online with the dissident community, but we need some good dissident right groups to collect and organize contact info. so we can start giving lawmakers an idea that the dissident community is a force that intends to lobby for things like immigration control (push for moratorium… Read more »

Lance_E
Member
5 years ago

Conventional politics is for the boomers. I cringe every time I hear one mouthing off about “liberals” or “liberal logic” as though they don’t hold exactly the same beliefs with extremely minor policy differences. But that’s the Rush and Hannity audiences. Seriously, you can look this up, the average age of a Fox viewer is well into the 60s, maybe even 70s. That’s *average*. They’re simply not capable of reinstalling the OS at this point – so much crapware has accumulated that they’ve actually started to depend on the crapware, and on interactions between the crapware and other crapware. But… Read more »

Primi Pilus
Primi Pilus
Reply to  Lance_E
5 years ago

Couple of thoughts … not all “boomers” are mired in the old thought templates; many are on top of the changes occurring at the dissident right. As I see it, generalities hold, generally; but, you have to take your people one at a time. Certainly, the boomers (of which I’m one) have a lot to answer for. Spoiled, self-centered, arrogant, driven, hyper-materialistic, destructive, short-sighted. Yes. I was there and saw it — from the Beatles first album through anti-war protests, the Summer of Love, the really awful decline of movies (Shaft, really?) and the spiraling decline into the late 1970s.… Read more »

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
5 years ago

In my experience there are three questions that tend to divide the purple pillers from the red pillers; Race realism; if you totally deny this you are not even purple pilled, you are still blue. But there are still varying degrees of openness to discuss this.. The JQ; many purples still dread being accused of being closet Nazis and to be honest, I also find that most cant discuss it, either b/c it is ‘off limits’ or b/c they totally brown pilled on it and now ‘ze Jews are behind erezing’. Neither are worth discussing this with. Gender realists, by… Read more »

FellowDissident
FellowDissident
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
5 years ago

Re ‘ze Jews are behind erezing’– they are indeed disproportionately driving the destruction of western civilization. For thousands of years. They couldn’t do it without our help but our participation does not absolve them. Aside from our own pathologies the JQ ranks a very close number two or even 1.1.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  FellowDissident
5 years ago

Z wrote what I thought was a really balanced take on the JQ. They are disproportionately represented in a lot of unfortunate places and contexts; if you re not happy w multi culti and the West collapsing I think that’s simply a matter of fact. The issues Im unsure about are the extent to which they do this ‘deliberately’ and the extent to which there is a concerted JEWISH plan I don’t know. It cant just be blamed only on ‘ze Jews’, the whole culture is rotten to the core and they are prominent in culture and education. Israel is… Read more »

Frip
Member
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
5 years ago

MyS, I didn’t know there were more colors. Purple, ok, I kinda get it. But brown? What’s brown? Anyway, I think you forgot about gay marriage. I think you can be red pilled and still support it. The JQ, yeah, I’ve seen the darkness that dwelling on that brings to peoples’ lives. The obsession and anger. Without saying too much, I’ve seen it up close and it scares me. I can’t deal with the subject. I used to deal with it, quite seriously. No more. When I began reading the Dissident Right I thought it was a joke when they… Read more »

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Frip
5 years ago

I ll admit I kinda made up purple and brown, purple’s sort of self-explanatory, brown was from brown shirt, I just pulled it outta my a$$ as I wrote the comment. It’s not clear to me if you re a lib troll or where you d place yourself. But the JQ is difficult and some ‘take the brown pill’ as I put it above, focusing completely on that to the exclusion of all else. I consider gay marriage more a symptom than a central question. I’m against it, I think it makes no sense, but I don’t feel strongly about… Read more »

Frip
Member
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
5 years ago

You just call me blue pill bro?

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Frip
5 years ago

Read my original comment, I said the issue of women in politics is one of the questions you need to be able to discuss to be red pill. Your last paragraph, on women, was pretty blue to me. You’re not even open to discussing it.

I haven’t read any of your other comments. Your comment to me, its not clear what you meant to say on the JQ other than that it’s difficult to discuss. On women, Id say you re blue. On the other stuff I dunno.

L. Beau Macaroni
L. Beau Macaroni
5 years ago

“As a rule, the American Left has always obsessed over that which it sees as a genuine threat or that which is a mirror held up to them, forcing them to examine their own beliefs.” – The Zman (empahsis mine)

That reminded me of this:
“Thou asked me my name, Don Quixote, and now I shall tell it.
I am called the Knight of the Mirrors!
Look, Don Quixote! Look into the mirror of reality, and see things a s they truly are!”

Man of La Mancha (1972)

Teapartydoc
Member
5 years ago

The way I look at it the problem with the use of theory to explain things is the limitations of theory itself. Theory can help to explain up to a point at which it is useless. Using theory to build something will be useful only up to a point, again, at which it becomes useless.

John Hinds
Reply to  Teapartydoc
5 years ago

That’s like knowledge. Its good, but not as good as understanding. Knowledge leads to understanding at which point, it can become an impediment.

james wilson
james wilson
Reply to  Teapartydoc
5 years ago

That is very like Garrett’s description of pre-cabal capitalism, which was still a proxy for liberty–Capitalism was not designed. It came not from thinking but from doing. In the beginning and for a long time it had no more theory about itself than a tree; like a tree it grew, and its only laws were remembered experience. When the writers of political economy began to provide it with a theory they had first of all to study it to find out how it worked. Many capitalist were innocent of its existence. What could theorist tell them about what they were… Read more »

George Orwell
George Orwell
5 years ago

“There was a time, maybe, when a debate over social contract theory… Today, it seems about as relevant as a debate over the proper way to saddle a unicorn so Sasquatch can ride it without falling off.” One grateful thing we have as partisans of the dissident Right is a new freedom in our minds, a freedom to disregard the pointless baseball scores that consume both cucks and shitlibs equally. Pretending to be sworn enemies in a sham battle between forces in Manichean opposition, we can identify nearly any game they play as irrelevant noise hiding the signal. Especially after… Read more »

Abelard Lindsey
Abelard Lindsey
5 years ago

I just looked up what social contract theory is. It comes from John Locke and is the idea that governments exist based on the consent of those being governed. In general, this idea makes sense to me. You guys seem to have a beef with this idea. I don’t really see any credible alternative to social contract theory. What do you guys propose as an alternative to social contract theory? The only thing I can think of is some variant of anarcho-capitalism. Perhaps you’re expecting that technology (3-D printing, molecular nanotechnology) will lead to a true post-scarcity economic system like… Read more »

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  thezman
5 years ago

One of the things going on these days is to realize that you must question everything. Every last darn thing you are told, about why something is the way it is, is generated by someone with an agenda to sell you. If you are not questioning things, you are mentally a sell-out to those who would manipulate your thoughts.

Abelard Lindsey
Abelard Lindsey
Reply to  Dutch
5 years ago

I certainly agree with you. I question everything. I especially question any attempt to limit my personal and economic freedom, and so should you.

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Abelard Lindsey
5 years ago

Your last sentence will be the epitaph of the white race. Death by radical individualism.

Frip
Member
Reply to  LineInTheSand
5 years ago

We got a new principal at our high school. Ms. Silverstein. And the first thing she did was have a big mural painted in the commons of a kid standing alone in the wilderness with the words, “First and foremost I am an individual.” I was one of the most “individual” kids at my school, yet I suspected the concept. The clue was that it was from an authority figure. And this force was trying to push an idea on us so hard (under the guise of peaceful art) that she’d deface a perfectly good brick wall. You can’t answer… Read more »

Abelard Lindsey
Abelard Lindsey
Reply to  thezman
5 years ago

You guys might be right that the Enlightenment is bunk. However, everything that predates the Enlightenment is even more bunk. This means that the alt-right really has no choice but to come up with something entirely new from scratch. You will have to look at the future rather than the past for some clue to designing effective social organization. It is coming to light that a lot (maybe all?) human cognitive and personality traits are biological rather than environmental. This suggests that you alt-right guys should pay attention to developments in neurobiology. Neurobiology is the science that underlies all human… Read more »

Cerulean
Cerulean
Reply to  Abelard Lindsey
5 years ago

“You guys might be right that the Enlightenment is bunk. However, everything that predates the Enlightenment is even more bunk.”

… I guess your utopia will leave us Christians behind, then.

“If your proposed system is based on hierarchy, the most intelligent and competent people would naturally be at the top of that hierarchy.”

… You must have missed Z’s post a few days ago about how highly intelligent people can be profoundly stupid.

Abelard Lindsey
Abelard Lindsey
Reply to  Cerulean
5 years ago

What make you think that I would ever accept any kind of “non-merit” based hierarchy where I was not in the top class? Tell me you are no so delusional to think that people like myself would ever go for something like that.

BTW, Christianity is no less a form of utopia than any other concept of social engineering.

I stand by my point. Any further improvements in social organization can only be found through neurobiology.

streamfortyseven
streamfortyseven
Reply to  Abelard Lindsey
5 years ago

Except that neurobiology has far too many unconstrained variables (known unknowns and unknown unknowns) to be anything close to science – it may be a good explanatory theory, but it’s got little predictive power. Predictive power goes up in direct proportion to the ability to constrain variables – make the known unknowns and unknown unknowns into known knowns. So far as I can tell, neurobiology is about as exact as sociology or the other soft sciences, which are simply apologiae for one sort of politics or the other.

Abelard Lindsey
Abelard Lindsey
Reply to  Cerulean
5 years ago

Basing a society on Christianity will not work because many of us are not Christians and, thus, do not accept the authority of this religion. You would either have to create parallel legal systems (like what they have in Malaysia) or self-segregate into a Christians only society. The latter implies a “balkanization” of North America (which may happen no matter what). The problem with hierarchy is who gets to be at the top. Competent, intelligent self-starter types like myself consider ourselves to be fully comparable to any other kind of human. Thus, we’re not about to join any hierarchy unless… Read more »

Tekton
Tekton
Reply to  Abelard Lindsey
5 years ago

“Basing a society on Christianity will not work because many of us are not Christians..”

Ah..but you will be master Luke…You WILL be.

Your position is based entirely on a false premise… That there will be a need for a “parallel legal system” to accommodate your presumed ‘parallel society’… There will be no such society.

Everyone who survives will be a Christian. If you live through the Crisis, you will happily embrace the Christian Society that will follow. It will be known as the “Kingdom of God”. It will work. Pray that your eyes will see it.

Abelard Lindsey
Abelard Lindsey
Reply to  thezman
5 years ago

If, as you say, social contract does not exist, then pure self-interest becomes my only criteria for my personal life choices.

Abelard Lindsey
Abelard Lindsey
Reply to  thezman
5 years ago

I am actually a “good neighbor” if that’s what you’re getting at. I see no reason to accept any limitations on my personal liberties and, in particular, my long-term life decisions other than to be a “good neighbor”.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Abelard Lindsey
5 years ago

Pure self interest has always been most people’s unacknowledged criterion for doing anything. The difference is that some of us recognize that reality, instead of coming up with a fancy theory and name for it, and yet still accept that in addition to self interest, there exists a cohort that really does value the greater good (with ‘greater’ defined as one’s people and nation, not all of mankind) as well. That while naturally prioritizing ourselves and our families, we also value our people and nation and genuinely want the best future for it, because ultimately that matters more than any… Read more »

Satch
Satch
Reply to  Abelard Lindsey
5 years ago

I do not recall ever giving my consent to be governed.

streamfortyseven
streamfortyseven
Reply to  Satch
5 years ago

You haven’t started shooting anyone yet, have you? “Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.” http://www.blackpast.org/?q=1857-frederick-douglass-if-there-no-struggle-there-no-progress


Frip
Member
5 years ago

I remember reading Sobran’s 1985 “Pensees” in the mid 90’s in NR. It now occurs to me that he was trying to red pill me but I thought he was exaggerating the Lefty mindset. Turns out he was especially right about the coming rule of the misfits.

Din C. Nuffin
Din C. Nuffin
5 years ago

When the Tea Party organized the first gathering in my town a number of years ago i attended and was amazed, and pleased, that i wasn’t alone in my thinking. But i’m not a joiner. By the way, what every became of the Tea Party?

Christopher S. Johns
Christopher S. Johns
Reply to  Din C. Nuffin
5 years ago

0bama sicced the IRS on it, with the GOP’s encouragement and blessing.

Ursula
Ursula
Reply to  Din C. Nuffin
5 years ago

Didn’t Conservative Inc. destroy it by infiltration — Dick Armey and the like?

Drake
Drake
5 years ago

I’ve lost all interest in most talk radio and television “debate” shows. It’s like watching a rerun of a show I’ve seen way too many times. Nobody is arguing from my position, they are all faking it.

Rod1963
Rod1963
5 years ago

My first Red Pill was Limbaugh of all people, it was when he sided with Clinton to promote NAFTA while his listeners were pleading with him not to. I realized then that the GOP as opposition didn’t exist. That they didn’t care about the American people one bit. Perot also played a part in exposing how rotten and phony the GOP was and how they played their voters with bullshit issues. It was also then (1992) I realized the press was totally controlled as well when they all went into lockstep supporting NAFTA and not allowing opposing editorials. The final… Read more »

Doug
Doug
5 years ago

Vox Day said, Alt-Right is inevitable. Notice I ommitted “The” as in The Alt-Right. Because what Alt-Right is is not a movement per say, it is The Zeitgeist. It is because culture, political science, family tribe and community. The White Christian Grecco-Roman Men of the West where not and are not a movement. It, they, is Paradigm, a sea change in thinking from conventional thought of the day. Take for example, the 2016 election is a color revolution, of course the 5th column media and intelligentsia would die before admitting, never mind creating journalistic essays on the political science of… Read more »

Frip
Member
Reply to  Doug
5 years ago

That was way too long but kinda kick ass.

SES
SES
5 years ago

“…they obsess over people like me and our plans to bring back slavery, roll back women’s rights and turn America into a medieval fortress.” If that means I’m going to be consigned to the home perhaps that won’t be a bad thing. I’d love to be able to have enough time to keep my home clean, to get back to gardening and preserving, to be able to finish my chicken enclosure before any more chooks get eaten by raccoons or skunks, and have time to weave again. And spin. And knit. But we’re all dreaming. The reality is that I… Read more »

Brooklyn
Brooklyn
5 years ago

“In my daily life, I meet some people who think like me and mostly people on the far left. Friends will mention Tucker Carlson on occasion, but I can’t remember the last time someone mentioned Hannity to me or Rush Limbaugh. ” Anytime something political comes up in conversation where I work or among people I know, its the lefties who give the mainstream talkers a mention. Hannity and Tucker Carlson come up a lot though its mostly lefties mocking them; Rush never comes up at all. (And I’ve never heard anyone on either side mention Ben Shapiro; if it… Read more »

Quartermaster
Quartermaster
5 years ago

Rousseau was an idiot who had little understanding of sinful human nature. John Calvin had his problems, intellectually, but he was far closer in his understanding of the nature of man than anyone in the enlightenment.

The more I have studied the Bible, the more trouble I have with the enlightenment.

Frip
Member
Reply to  Quartermaster
5 years ago

Rousseau was the world’s first douchebag. Wasn’t he the guy that started the whole coffee house confessional? Where people stand up and talk about how special and tragic they are? When I think about going back in time and beating the crap out of someone with my bare fists, it’s him.

A.B. Prosper
A.B. Prosper
Reply to  Frip
5 years ago

Old saying about Time Travelers

Amateurs shoot Hitler
Professionals shoot Gavrillo Princeps
Masters shoot Rosseau

Someone
Someone
5 years ago

I stopped listening to Rush in the late 90’s. He showed himself as an establishment whore by not acknowledging Ron Paul despite his BS love for ‘muh Constitution’. I stayed home on election day during the Magic Kneegro years since Team R could not run a compelling candidate. Libertardians have also fallen over the last decade especially with their open borders stupidity and thinking it’s okay for a company to import a bunch of people for $1 a day while the community dies or suffers. Libertardians and cuck servatives have a blind spot regarding race, IQ, and culture that’s as… Read more »

Frip
Member
5 years ago

Forgot an obvious road to the Alt Right. Gotta give credit to Rogan being willing to talk about, and to, Milo. He was intelligent, well spoken, and weirdly cool. I think Milo’s presence went a long way in showing us newcomers that the Alt Right wasn’t just goons playing pretend Nazi. I remember the first time I heard Rogan talk about Milo, who I’d never heard of. Rogan was interviewing Jeff Ross, the comedian. Rogan went off on a long tangent about this articulate, charismatic guy who was taking on feminist sacred cows, and PC culture. When Joe finished, and… Read more »

Abelard Lindsey
Abelard Lindsey
5 years ago

Given how focused the alt-right is on biological differences between peoples and the consequent implications for immigration policy, why does the recognition of such require that we give up the Enlightenment? We only need a renewal of the 1924 immigration act. You guys rightly point out that the beliefs of the Enlightenment are incompatible with other cultures. Why should we give up the Enlightenment ourselves just because others cannot handly it? Why not just enact immigration reform to keep those others out? We largely stopped immigration between 1924-1965 without giving up the Enlightenment itself. Why the hell do we have… Read more »

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Abelard Lindsey
5 years ago

Golly gee, yeah, those Ellis Islanders and their progeny handled pseudo self-government and rugged individualism so well that they elected FDR four times!! They felt the Enlightenment values right down to their bones, all right.

Dtbb
Dtbb
5 years ago

How old are all y’all? I couldn’t vote in 1980 and one look at Reagan to my young eyes scared me. I was sure he was going to gets us in a war. Then a few years later I turned 18 and had to register for the draft. I immediately registered as a democrat in self interest for sure. Thr fooloshness of youth. I think history has been and will be kind to Ronnie Raygun and rightfully so. The 80’s sure were a great time. If I only knew then what I know now. I think we can all say… Read more »

Abelard Lindsey
Abelard Lindsey
5 years ago

Do you guys really believe that a libertarian society is incapable of defending itself against an enemy? Would you like to test this proposition?

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Abelard Lindsey
5 years ago

Z addresses your question in his most recent podcast. Give it a listen.

Abelard Lindsey
Abelard Lindsey
Reply to  LineInTheSand
5 years ago

Yeah, I listened to it. I find it unconvincing. One flawed assumption in the libertarians cannot defend themselves argument is that it takes large numbers of soldiers to kill large numbers of the enemy. Robotics (air, land, and underseas drones as well as the logistics supply chain), laser weapons, and biological/nanotechnological weaponry will make large human militaries obsolete in the next 10-15 years. This technology revolution makes the small competitive with the large. It also favors defense over offence. This technology revolution will make it much easier for a libertarian city-state, for example, to effectively defend itself from a much… Read more »

Mark Taylor
Member
Reply to  Abelard Lindsey
5 years ago

The fact that there aren’t any libertarian societies means they either couldn’t defend them or couldn’t create them.