The Progressive Sandwich

If one were to summarize why Buckley-style conservatism failed, the clearest answer is that it stopped being conservative. The central tenets of conservatism are tradition, organic society, hierarchy, authority, property rights and prudence. In the Anglo-Saxon model, ordered liberty can also be included. The limits on authority are the logic of a fixed and orderly legal system. Probably the most concise explanation of American conservatism came from Russel Kirk seventy years ago.

Buckley conservatism, in contrast, was never deeply rooted in social philosophy and this was a deliberate act. The Buckleyites wanted a create a political movement that could compete with Progressives. In order to do that it meant winning elections and that meant providing a practical platform for governance. As a result, Buckley conservatism was always a compromise. In order to fashion a practical political platform, it meant deviating from conservative dogma as necessity required.

This lack of ideological moorings, however, led it to drift away from conservatism toward something that is better described as marketism. Libertarians see property as the key to individual liberty. All human rights derive from ownership of self and property is the fruit of labor, so absolute property rights safeguard individual liberty. Marketism, in contrast, views liberty as the unfettered right to trade property and labor. Therefore, liberty is maximized only through the free and unregulated marketplace.

In both cases, the definition of individual liberty is at odds with conservative conceptions of individual liberty, as well as the tenets of conservatism. The Right has always understood that a man could only be free within the context of society. To exist within a society, he must gain control of his passions and master himself. Customs and traditions, which habituated him to his duties as a member of society, also channeled his energies to that which served the good of his society.

This conception of ordered liberty, in which man can only be free within the context of his role in society, is the wellspring of conservative thought. Respect for hierarchy, for example, is not just an observation of man’s natural state, but an acceptance of the fundamental nature of human society. Similarly, the right of property can only be a coherent concept within a human society, not outside it. There can be no property rights without society, so property rights must ultimately serve the good of society.

For libertarians and market absolutists, any restraint on how you can dispose of your property or how you trade property with others is seen as a violation of your individual sovereignty. Inevitably, it means taking the side of the market when it bumps up against custom or tradition. It means siding with novelty that promises more market freedom, even when it undermines the organic institutions of society. Inevitably, conservatives became the defenders of the wrecking ball that destroyed American culture.

It’s why a Kevin Williamson could gleefully cheer for the destruction of small-town America and their customs, in the name of the free market. From his perspective, the limitations of localism are a gross violation of freedom, so destroying those local communities sets the residents free to maximize their economic utility. Buckley conservatism has drifted so far from its alleged starting position, it now stands in opposition to that which defined its alleged starting position.

This recent piece by David French is another example. In it, he turns conservatism on its head in order to promote marketism. The problems of college athletics, however you wish to frame them, are not the result of too little commercialism. Only a blithering idiot could come to such a conclusion. The trouble with college sports, and the college system as a whole, is it is now almost entirely free of the system of customs and traditions that created it. Higher education is a market that strives to be a racket.

David French, of course, has become the comical front man for Buckley conservatism over the last few years. His blend of sanctimonious finger wagging and principled mediocrity is the exaggerated version of the dissident critique of conventional conservatism. He is the clown nose of Conservative Inc. This is not solely due to his many personal defects. His embrace of unconditional marketism has led him to adopt an entirely transactional view of human existence.

There used to be a time when both sides of the Progressive orthodoxy understood the limits and liabilities of the marketplace. The Left would howl about consumerism at the expense of authenticity. The Right would point out the dangers inherent in an unfettered marketplace. Buckley famously said, “The trouble with socialism is socialism. The trouble with capitalism is capitalists.” The modern conservative would not understand that juxtaposition. For him, the marketplace is supreme.

The underlying truth of radicalism is that it not only seeks to free men from the human condition, but it seeks to have them rise to the heavens and become gods. For the modern conservative, something similar has evolved. Whether it is a fetish for property or a fetish for markets, the Buckley conservatives imagine men breaking free of their constraints in order to become fully engaged market participants. For them, the paradise at the end is a shopping mall full of atomized strangers.

That’s why Buckley conservatism has failed. It is a primal call for a war of all against all, where atomized bugmen jostle to maximize their utility in the market. To consume product is the end point of existence. It is a crude and vulgar existence that celebrates man’s worst instincts at the expense of his nobler aspirations. What is on offer from so-called conservatives is a different type of hell than what is on offer from their partners on the Left, but it is still the same Progressive sandwich.


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Chet Rollins
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Chet Rollins

The only good part of the California sports proposal is that it further wounds the gross beast that is sportsball.
Middle aged men need to see the pain of withdrawal when opioids like sports are torn away from them.
The next step is for young men to get their porn and games taken away.
Once wokeness infests every bit of their lives they will realize they are caged animals who only can look forward to being poked with sticks.
If they still do nothing. We deserve extinction.

Ayatollah Rockandrollah
Member

Several friends of mine now hate-watch sports. They can’t stop, they know nothing else to do with their time, but it’s misery for them. 30+ years of indoctrination and mainlining “Eagles Nation” or “Yankee Nation” into their veins. They know the drug is toxic, they cannot stand the players or the product or its presentation, but they still do it anyway. Quite simply, these bugmen are faced with a choice every weekend: stare into the abyss of middle-age (some of them without children) and their rapidly approaching senescence and death, or escape into watching wannabe-rap artists and criminals twerk on… Read more »

Penitent Man
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Penitent Man

Excellent post and observations Ayatollah.

You said he snaps if you say a word. Does this fellow have any interests or things he’s good at?

Maybe you can encourage he use the weekend to do those things. Pick up guitar. Hike. Read a damn book.

If he wishes to remain angry and blind… I guess you will have done all you could to help him.

Ayatollah Rockandrollah
Member

Good suggestion. I’ve tried. Boss’ interests include drinking, computer games, defending Israel, telling a guy who spent six years teaching ancient philosophy and American foreign policy (two different degrees, but I was capable of it) he’s a moron, and these days, total confusion as to what’s happened to his beloved Drudge Report.

I wish he could be saved, but it’s not going to happen until it’s too late. By that time, I’ll be long gone and hard to find.

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

Ayatollah,

Shame. Oh well. You can lead a horse to water…

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

Top notch comment, Ayatollah. One line in particular perfectly fits a couple of my husband’s high school friends (not my husband – he’s not that far gone!) – they will, indeed, “die wearing their sportsball jersey from 1998.”

Member

Related note: can both sides please lose in the brouhaha between the woke NBA and the Chinese thugs?

Exile
Guest
Exile

I broke the fantasy-football-level sportsball addiction a few years back, distressing waste of time when seen from my rear-view mirror. Between Ayatollah & Chet there are painful truths to confront – we let ourselves get awfully soft on ball, vidya & other nonsense. Huxley-style hyperreality complete with a dozen different ways to soma is hard to resist. Changing up your habits is highly recommended but keep it low profile so as not to trigger red-flag-happy normies who think you’ve joined a cult because your “interests have changed.”

Corvinus
Guest
Corvinus

“Several friends of mine now hate-watch sports. They can’t stop, they know nothing else to do with their time, but it’s misery for them. 30+ years of indoctrination and mainlining “Eagles Nation” or “Yankee Nation” into their veins.” Somehow this appears to be an over reach, as if these sports fans suddenly became “woke” and are wondering why they spent decades on sportsball. I surmise that they are lamenting about certain aspects of the professional leagues, but they remain a dedicated fan, and you are upset that they are not seeing things they way they ought to. “I’m giving him… Read more »

Doppelbadger
Guest
Doppelbadger

Imagine if all the sports stadiums blew up tomorrow. Millions (billions?) of men would have to snap out of their stupor and take stock of where things really stand.

There’s a terrific WoTW video about how tribal instincts are catastrophically mischanneled into sport. I think it’s seeing this video that killed off my sports-love once and for all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4bx030Hndo

Ayatollah Rockandrollah
Member

Great video. They have indeed become feeble-minded and infantilized, and cannot recognize what is being taken from them. They are gelded. I watched baseball for 20+ years and played it until I was in my mid-30s. I now no longer even know when the season ends. I am disgusted at the behavior of people around me, who live all week long for Sunday, and then throw it away on booze, food, and social media commenting during the games. They are utterly, utterly useless. They will die off rapidly without their sports. To say that these things occupy their minds 50%… Read more »

De Ferres
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De Ferres

Compared to what again? Focusing on politics? That is the definition of something that it is not healthy to focus on because it is something you exert zero control over. In fact, it is absolutely toxic to your soul on top of being useless and futile. I don’t have an interest either way, but if I have to chose between neighbors watching mostly harmless if stupid sports and those making politics into their gay and fake religion, I will take sports all day every day. God forbid people gain some joy and kinship in something in this short, bizarre journey… Read more »

Michaeloh
Guest
Michaeloh

If you could shorten that up a bit it would be an admirable surrender speech.

De Ferres
Guest
De Ferres

There are things I can control. Like moving out to the country, keeping my family together, having lots of whuh-ite kids, going to church, teaching them values that are now countercultural. That’s what I do. The rest of it, politics, is by definition outside my control and therefore not worth contemplating. Honestly based on his most recent podcasts, zman sounds the same way. Political theory and ideas with some history, yeah, but no current events, news and trump.

IFrank
Guest
IFrank

They come at us light speed. Moments. Moment to moment. What to pay attention to, what to ignore? Critical decisions we have to make every moment, unless we escape through addiction, alcohol, or have an obsession. Choose wisely.

Corvinus
Guest
Corvinus

“Imagine if all the sports stadiums blew up tomorrow. Millions (billions?) of men would have to snap out of their stupor and take stock of where things really stand.”

LOL, no. There is no “stupor”. It’s men being men. What’s so wrong with that?

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

When I was a kid in school – derision and social pressure were very powerful forces – to ensure compliance on at least some level with the group. I discovered that participating in sports was at least one way to get acceptance and up my social standing. A lot of the guys I knew in high school – who actually PLAYED in one sport or another – are not the ones who have spend the intervening decades sitting on a couch WATCHING sports. I suppose the ranks of football fans contain an awful lot of ex-high school athletes who basically… Read more »

TheLastStand
Guest

I really hate jerseys. Wearing another man’s name on your clothing is beta. Be the hero your son deserves.

Michaeloh
Guest
Michaeloh

For the less industrious the strategy is similar; no thanks but Im waterskiing, bicycling, running, combat sports, etc this sunday. Hate to miss all the fun of watching TV though. Really.

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

I’m going to dissent. In the town where I grew up kids played sports. Mostly Little League Baseball and Pop Warner Football for boys. They still shut down traffic once a year for the Little League parade. In my sister’s ‘hood all the guys go one particular neighbor’s “man cave” to watch the Pats and bond for a couple of hours during Sunday day games. I view this as community building. I think it’s great.

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

I’m not going to disagree that having CHILDREN play sports isn’t something that can bind a community together.

But MEN used to do things like attend militia training once a month – and show up to help their neighbors build barns. That is what used to pass for “community building”.

When you’re watching a game – you’re WATCHING a bunch of guys play a game . And those men you’re watching – are in large part these days completely against your community.

Watching negro populated sportsball is not the same as cheering on your child’s Little League team.

Corvinus
Guest
Corvinus

“When you’re watching a game – you’re WATCHING a bunch of guys play a game . And those men you’re watching – are in large part these days completely against your community.”

Actually, they are a MAINSTAY in that community by way of their direct involvement in church activities and philanthropic endeavors.
You really do not know what you are talking about.

ConservativeFred
Guest
ConservativeFred

All things in moderation. I still get together with family and friends a few times a year to watch sports ball and attend a game or two. However, I have moved beyond the weekend ritual, and honestly, if it wasn’t a means to connect with my “tribe,” I would watch little or no sports ball.

HobbesianM
Guest
HobbesianM

If anyone deserves extinction, it’s people who say “we deserve extinction”. Why spread toxic memes?

Yves Vannes
Member

“That’s why Buckley conservatism has failed. It is a primal call for a war of all against all, where atomized bugmen jostle to maximize their utility in the market. To consume product is the end point of existence. It is a crude and vulgar existence that celebrates man’s worst instincts at the expense of his nobler aspirations. What is on offer from so-called conservatives is a different type of hell than what is on offer from their partners on the Left, but it is still the same Progressive sandwich.” This gem should be memorized and used as a preface whenever… Read more »

Wolf Barney
Guest
Wolf Barney

Buckley conservatism/Conservatism Inc. is a soul-crushing conservatism.

Corvinus
Guest
Corvinus

“If one were to summarize why Buckley-style conservatism failed, the clearest answer is that it stopped being conservative.” No. It remained conservative, just not a brand that some on the right would support. In other words, the needle was not moved far enough by that group. “The Buckleyites wanted a create a political movement that could compete with Progressives. In order to do that it meant winning elections and that meant providing a practical platform for governance. As a result, Buckley conservatism was always a compromise.” No, it was choice for people to make based on whether his/her principles aligned… Read more »

Member

Ironic that a dissident right blogger gets conservatism better than almost any self declared “conservatives”.

Chris_Lutz
Member

One of KDW’s latest columns was on how horrid the Left is in censoring stuff and it’s a return to the scolds of the 80’s, like Tipper Gore. Somehow, wanting to have music properly labeled for explicit content is immoral. Of course, the Instapundit groupies were cheering along, except for blasting KDW for his previous writings.

The inability to tie a degenerating society to not being able to enforce standards is fascinating. They would not expect to run a marathon without training. Yet, they expect a decent, functioning society without enforcing standards.

JescoWhite
Guest
JescoWhite

Multiculturalism implies multiple standards. When people in a society have different standards that is a caste system. The targeting of Christianity isn’t necessarily to destroy it but to create room for polytheism which is necessary in any caste system. What makes our situation unique is that it’s an inverted caste system. The most productive and intelligent are assigned the lowest caste while compelled to maintain and take responsibility for the whole edifice. Our Untouchables are the people the rest of the world does everything they can to be closer to and look more like. Maybe it would be more accurate… Read more »

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

Well said, Chris. And your equivalency is a good one – most people wouldn’t expect to host any sort of function or meeting or competition without prep work and anticipating problems and preparing for complications, yet they believe that all humans (not merely White Europeans, but all sub-species of homo sapiens) will somehow intuitively hew to basic decency and the moral standards necessary for functional society without any carrots or sticks – indeed, without any rules at all. Madness.

Brad
Guest
Brad

My father worked as an electrical engineer at a natural gas company for over 30 years. He use to tell me stories of how the guys at local compressor stations would pull out the company’s heavy equipment to clear and bulldoze for local communities and towns any time they needed to build a little league ball-field, a new church or a park. The company freely allowed this and understood they had to be a part of the community to earn the trust and goodwill of the locals – especially land owners. There was no concern of lawsuits or liabilities. Regulations… Read more »

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

“The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.” –L.P. Hartley. You can get away with that in a cohesive community. And before the financialization of the economy under Reagan/Bush.

UpYours
Guest
UpYours

Saint Reagan’s sins were many. No fault divorce, Mulford Act, Hughes Amendment, 1986 Amnesty, Asset forfeiture, funding Osama Bin Laden etc….

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

It was the amnesty that sealed our fate.

Nunnya Bidnez, jr.
Guest
Nunnya Bidnez, jr.

Social Security was going broke; instead of pushing it off the cliff, Reagan raised SS contributions from 2% to 7%.
A regressive tax, that can’t be avoided.

dad29
Guest

I would suggest that Reagan/Bush had FAR less to do with this than PI lawyers and insurance companies.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

The first principle of conservatism should be the conservation of your people. Once conservatism accepted the tenets of the Cult of Equality, there was no place left for it to go than marketism. That was the only way for it to distinguish itself from the left.

The Left looks to mold its human clay via government and regulations. The Right seeks to mold its human clay via the market and incentives. Both reject our humanity, and both will fail because of that.

One of Many Georges
Guest
One of Many Georges

The hard truth is that blood and soil conservatism is the only real conservatism. The only one that conserves.

Anything else is just dancing around the truth in order to stay inside the Kosherton Window.

Hilltop
Guest
Hilltop

I reckon blood and soil is a necessary, but not sufficient, condition, of real conserving.

In Japan, for example, they have very high ethnic homogeneity, but still have a lot of laws to keep megabusiness from annihilating everything.

This article from 25 years ago is on point. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1994/11/27/will-success-spoil-america/4c79c031-47b0-40a5-804c-dc8f2080ecdf/

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

The Japanese are a bit like the Amish. They reject market changes that they believe will destroy the traditions of their people. American businesses and politicians are always baffled that the Japanese will not allow changes in their economy that should increase efficiency because to Americans, market efficiency is one of our gods.

The business of America is business.

The business of Japan is the Japanese.

Nunnya Bidnez, jr.
Guest
Nunnya Bidnez, jr.

I haven’t been to Japan since ’93,
but when I was there I stayed in the suburbs w/ friends, and went to the local supermarket to check out prices.
I had heard that the Japanese gov’t had policies to keep fruit & vegetable prices high, as a way of subsidizing small farmers. We also went to a small farm stand to buy strawberries .. $10 a pint. In the supermarket, cantaloupe was $30, Hershey Bars were $6 (compared to $1.50 in the US at the time).
Apparently the local Japanese thought this was fine.

UpYours
Guest
UpYours

The problem is that Japanese policies only work for the Japanese, period. You cannot ape their policies and expect it to work anywhere else.

Japanese joke that Japan is the only country where socialism worked

De Ferres
Guest
De Ferres

The business of the Japanese is self destruction and degenerate porn, my guy. They have massively sub replacement birthrates, a generation of young people that have ceased dating or having sex, old people dying alone with no community and being discovered months later, and massive succide epidemic. What sexual energy they still have is piped into robots and the most disgusting outlandish porn that they sell to the rest of the world. You are nuts if you think Japan should be anywhere near our model, it among the saddest and most dysfunctional societies on earth. And one with no future… Read more »

A.B Prosper
Guest
A.B Prosper

Japan has 120 million people mostly crammed into cities on a small island. Any animal a cut off from its nature will get sick and die back . Mankind is no exception. High tech life , high tech unnatural cities and modernity are profoundly anti human and cannot be sustained We need roots and nature and modernity with its gulag shopping mall virtual life is opposed in every way to this, There are no society wide sources of cheap capital, “one weird tricks” or anything else than can stop nature from taking its course though. nature always wins Rootless, faithless… Read more »

Corvinus
Guest
Corvinus

Normies don’t do fatalism. They do not seek, nor desire, nor support, a “collapse”. Modernity was the creation of humankind. Progress is our destiny. I thank my lucky stars that normies remain strong against those who desire a complete overturning of society in the hopes that, from the ashes, something “better” is developed.

Rodulf
Guest
Rodulf

Well, the US hardly has a future, either, unless you count a giant, brown-sludge super-ghetto as a future.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

Politics is downstream from culture. Culture is downstream from biology. Biology springs from the people.

You can’t conserve your culture or your politics if you don’t conserve your people. Conservatism begins and ends with the people.

dad29
Guest

Culture is downstream from biology

Nope,. Culture is downstream from cult. Note the obvious derivation.

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

Top notch, Citizen. So many insightful comments today! That’s why this blog is home for me. I’ll share a bunker (or re-education camp!) with all of you any time.

IFrank
Guest
IFrank

Dittos for me, 3g. The Ayatollah! A feast for thought. As for me, much more fun listening to you guys playing with ideas than it is Johnny Ballgame playing with his sportsball.

Rodulf
Guest
Rodulf

See my post above, Buckley failed because of a lack of racial reality.

Da Booby
Guest

Another rarely spoken problem is that after WWII everything “right” became easily disparaged as de facto Nazism, no matter how far or moderate the “right” happened to be. “Right wing” became a swear word, or an insult. That prepared the way for the complete takeover of academia which finally succeeded in the 60s and 70s. Since WWII, educated conservatives just assume they are going to lose because that’s all they have seen and all they know. They talk the talk, but then slink back into their pampered lives and immerse themselves in left-wing pop culture and party hardy. Even after… Read more »

Member

Conservatism, Inc. is right to fear us. They know we MEAN it. And we will have zero tolerance for their bullshit.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

Washington Conservatives grew up in nice suburbs and fully embrace the overall culture, even if they feel it has excesses. They refuse to reject it in favor of a community that they create. It’s not just about the money. They really do seek the approval of the media and Washington/NYC/LA elite. Heck, you can even see that with dissidents. You think Charles Murray would reject Washington? He still wants their approval. Even Steve Sailer still attempts to negotiate with the other side, hoping that his ideas will win them over. He wants to be a part of that club. I’ve… Read more »

Lineman
Guest
Lineman

Amen Brother… Community is where it begins and ends…The only people that truly give a damn about you besides family is those that live in your Community or want your Community to succeed…Is it wrong of me to want a little more pain just enough to get people to start building theirs or moving to somewhere they can…

The Babe
Member
The Babe

It’s really just a form of power worship. Because if you take even one step back, and look at these people afresh, you see what scumbags they are. Perhaps it’s just a survival mechanism to see the Powerful as the Good. Since the powerful ipso facto essentially dictate what’s right and wrong in your society, it sure as hell helps to go along and get along if you instinctively and unconsciously absorb the received values. But when you see that the Powerful are not the Good, and in fact can’t even tolerate pretending that they are any more, well, then… Read more »

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

Conservatism Inc. as well as Murray and Sailer came up through the system. (Remember, Sailer used to write NR.) It’s very difficult for them to reject the only world that they’ve ever known. I suspect that a lot of us around here went to non-elite, but good colleges or just finished high school and work/worked regular jobs. The Washington/NYC/LA elite are as foreign to us as the European or Chinese elite. We’ve lived our lives separate from them so breaking away isn’t hard. I’m more than happy having Z-Man, Lineman, The Babe, etc., as the group where I seek to… Read more »

Wolf Barney
Guest
Wolf Barney

I approve this message!

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

Interesting observation, Citizen. I did go to an elite college, and won various accolades, and got a prestigious job. I wasn’t raised within that milieu, but gained entree through my academic efforts and abilities. And while I found some decent and capable people, I found myself drawn . . . not to the top elite (where I never really fit in) or even the middle class I had grown up amongst, but the blue collar guys. The technicians, the enlisted military, the guys who know how to build and fix things and have basic common sense. They were neither impressed… Read more »

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

3g4me, there was a minority of us who worked in the dining halls and student union during our stints at the big-deal ivy wannabe college. We had a whole different outlook on things, and were a tight little group. How each of the rest of the students treated us, in our job interactions with them, ran the gamut. Gave us a lot of insight on our fellow students. Also, an empty seat, at a lunch in the private dining room at our dining hall, turned me from a food server to a seat at the table, for a small private… Read more »

Mike_C
Guest
Mike_C

Interesting, 3g4me. I also went to an elite college (and more elite places for grad school(s) and clinical fellowship), yet gravitate – at least in part – toward the same as you. A funny (to me) thing was when a good friend (Wellesley grad, diehard HRC supporter) found out I was going to vote for Trump. “But you’re one of us!” I had to gently correct her that I am Deplorable. “No! That doesn’t refer to you! Not at all! You’re smart, you have advanced degrees! It specifically refers to ignorant people from flyover country who cling to their guns,… Read more »

Gauss
Guest
Gauss

Derb also used to write for NR before the defenestration. Nevertheless, he’s quite sound, not seeking the approval of institutional conservatives. I don’t often read Sailer but my impression of him is mostly positive.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

I’m being too harsh on Sailer, whom I deeply respect. Sailer has been out there under his own name for decades, and it cost him. He could have groveled and begged to be let back into the club, but he didn’t, which shows you what kind of man that he is.

I think that I just get frustrated that Sailer continues trying to debate the other side when it has become clear that the hate us. My hope is that Sailer understands this but keeps on trying, mainly as a way to ferry normies to our side.

A.B Prosper
Guest
A.B Prosper

It’s not easy for secular conservatives who think the other side means well but is misguided to see them as what they are, a deadly enemy

Hell I’m hip deep in this part of the Right and even i think the logical outcome of that , what is required is shuddersome.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

IMHO, the people of the Left do not trust ordinary people, and would instead rather throw their support behind big governmental institutions, even seriously flawed ones. Why might that be? Could it be that they know how parts of themselves are rotten to the core, and don’t trust the good parts of their souls to guide them and prevail? Likewise, those in our thing understand that we are fallen people, and darkness inhabits parts of us, but we choose instead to concentrate on the good, and to practice the discipline required to keep the bad at bay. We take responsibility… Read more »

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

I’ve live in the DC area for a long time now. The East Coast whites and, especially, the Jews absolutely do not trust Midwestern whites (whom they see as rubes) and, especially, Southern whites (whom they see as evil).

They hate you and want you and your people controlled for now and dissolved eventually.

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

Citizen, I traveled to New York, Jersey and the D.C. area extensively for business about a decade ago. Several score of trips. If the subject of the South or Southerners came up I was shocked how much bile and stereotyping the Yankees would feel free to regurgitate up with glee. Most had never been south of the M/D Line but whatever… I’m from an exclusively long line of Southerners and only by accident of birth (military) am the only one born outside Dixie in California. (“Just because one is born in a stable, it does not make one a horse”… Read more »

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

Yeah, it’s stunning how comfortable SWPL whites and Jews feel openly trashing on Southern whites. They’ve obviously never had anyone push back against it, ever.

As Z says, the elite throughout history have always been shockingly clueless about what’s going on around them, right up to the point that they put in chains.

Apex Predator
Guest
Apex Predator

It is partly because white males are the only ‘punching bag’ left anymore. You can openly and actively be racist and bigoted as phuck and nobody blinks an eye. I’ve been in rooms full of people making southern redneck jokes with these entitled DC social climbers and I don’t just mean in social settings. Boardrooms! The utter hatred they have for ‘flyover country’ is boundless. It is why we need an immediate separation, but they will never allow it. As much as they spit venom none of them ever stops to ponder where their food magically appears from in Whole… Read more »

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

Apex,

I would love to see the rise of Joe Bob Atreides/ Mud’daubber and his Free(good ol’)men as well.

A.B Prosper
Guest
A.B Prosper

Of course President Trump isn’t. He runs hotels and casinos. Two weeks of Muad’dib would put his family in the poorhouse The President wants to preserve an America where his type of family enterprise can thrive which incidentally means some work on less immigration, avoiding pointless wars , jobs and wages. Aka Civic Nationalism Still for someone who isn’t a dissident and is a boomer, he’s done well enough That said said the redneck situation is quite complex as flyover people and deplorables abound in every state. It’s not unknown to the the Stars and Bars flown in upstate New… Read more »

Behind Enemy Lines
Guest
Behind Enemy Lines

Dutch, ordinary leftism isn’t about philosophy, it’s about organizing in secret to seize power and goodies for yourself and your chums. The public sector is a big fat sweet easy target for them, because public money never runs out, there’s limitless opportunity to use the force of the state against your enemies, and the organisation can’t be bankrupted no matter how much you abuse it. I accept that philosophy is important. But if we’re to beat the left, we won’t do it by accepting them as honest, loyal opposition and then arguing over the nature of man. We’ll beat leftist… Read more »

Sperg Adjacent
Guest
Sperg Adjacent

Rule of thumb: if you seek the moral approval of your enemy, he’s not really your enemy.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

That’s where I split with Murray and Sailer. They think that we’re having a debate when, in fact, we’re having a war. The fact that they can’t see that says something about them.

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

They’re products of their time. Their frame-of-reference was forged in a different era, under entirely different circumstances. (They also seem to understand which side their bread is buttered on.)

c matt
Guest
c matt

In their defense, I don’t think the Left is their intended audience for the debates. They are not idiots, and I am sure they know the Left is beyond hope. But by being the only adult in the debate, they hope to win over the fence-sitters / mushy middle / normies. Whether that works, who knows – I guess we will find out a year and some change from now.

Da Booby
Guest

The Booby has no problem with Vox Day. His book provides a manual on how to protect yourself from SJWs and their attacks, and he’s done everyone a great service in that regard. I doubt Mr. Trump read the book, but he pretty much followed the script outlined by Mr. Day. Trump wasn’t following anyone’s advice. Whether you like Trump or not, he simply has balls and he showed it by not caring the SJWs or the MSM thinks. That’s how you defeat them. Vox Day’s #1 rule: don’t apologize.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

Yeah, that rule is key. I’ve used it myself. Lefties and cucks simply don’t know how to respond to someone who doesn’t apologize or cower. They’re utterly baffled. At some neighborhood gathering, I mentioned that I’d never send my kids to a heavily minority school, especially black. Que the pearl clutching and accusations of my being a racist. I just said that I didn’t care and that you’d be a fool and a horrible parent if you sent your white kid to a heavily black school – which, of course, is why none of you do. Don’t apologize. Don’t back… Read more »

c matt
Guest
c matt

Like the Z-Man said in one of his podcasts – they talk like MLK but live like KKK.

Ant Man Bee
Guest

This whole “separate from their world and create your own” idea is a sound principle, and in realistic terms it is probably the only practical strategy going forward. The problem is, at least morally, that it is not “their” world. It is our world; we built it, we created it, everything in it that is of value, we and our kind put there; and they simply stole it all right out from under us. If you “create your own,” what is to prevent them from stealing that one, too? When the Jews began arriving in America in large numbers circa… Read more »

Nunnya Bidnez, jr.
Guest
Nunnya Bidnez, jr.

Ummm,
you’re starting to sound like obama:
“you didn’t build that”

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

Good points. I’ve thought about that myself. I think that there’s really only one way to keep what’s ours.

See my point about preserving our people. Jews are a people. Gentile whites are a people. We both deserve our own place in the world, our own separate place.

A.B Prosper
Guest
A.B Prosper

I have issues with Vox too but the man even tasted modernity being part of a decently known band and a syndicated columnist for USA today and having been offered, or so he says a few more goodies too.

Having the cojones to turn all that down requires more character than most have.

Member

If we create our own communities, they will follow us. Much as they despise us, they know that we are where the beauty and innovation will be. We are their heroin.

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

A lot of that burial didn’t start after WW2 – it started as soon as the US was attacked at Pearl Harbor and war was declared. The pre-war right was in large part against getting involved in yet another war. You see an awful lot of right wingers these days who reflexively say stupid shit like “Chamberlain surrendered to Hitler”. Which is ignorant because they’re completely memory-holing the fact that people in 1938 vividly remembered the slaughter that was WW1. If your 18 year old son was butchered in 1917 – that means you were likely 60 years old or… Read more »

ProUSA
Guest
ProUSA

I got a taste of your observations yesterday when I heard that Ginger Baker died. So I listened to Jack Bruce sing and watched Ginger play the drums for a few hours, thinking about their musical genius when all I seem to listen to today is classical music, classic country, and John Berry soundtracks.

Nunnya Bidnez, jr.
Guest
Nunnya Bidnez, jr.

RIP Ginger and Jack

a song about politicians c.1968
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOPDzD_P9gg

Hey now baby, get into my big black car
I wanna just show you what my politics are.
I’m a political man and I practice what I preach
So don’t deny me baby, not while you’re in my reach.

I support the left, tho’ I’m leanin’, leanin’ to the right
But I’m just not there when it’s coming to a fight.
Hey now baby, get into my big black car
I wanna just show you what my politics are.

PS Play it FUCKING LOUD.
that is all.

ProUSA
Guest
ProUSA

Ginger got really pissed whenever anyone said Cream was Rock, or Heavy Metal, insisting that he and Jack were Jazz and Eric was the Blues.

Thanks for the lyrics.

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

There is a feelz part of the libertarian equation that naturally misses the part of human nature that is the social animal. When folks feel part of their society, when they care about the whole, when they feel they are part of their nation… people find supporting its institutions, shared-sacrificing for their people, aiding their own to be deeply gratifying activities. Libertarianism’s fly your freak flag allowances and any bushman can be just as American as you penchant drives home that tone-deafness. I would listen to my Silent gen grandmother “Memama” tell stories. Sharing their fish catch from the Gulf… Read more »

Kentucky Headhunter
Guest
Kentucky Headhunter

I don’t think that counts as socialism. That’s just being a part of a functioning community.

Lineman
Guest
Lineman

@Kentucky
Exactly right it isn’t socialism because it is done willingly because they want their way of life to continue and they care about their people…

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

I understand the compulsory and voluntary differentiation in your arguments gentlemen. My point was she was happy to give and do without for her people. There were other compulsory (and non) factors in her stories. Young men committing suicide after being declared 4F unsuitable for service. She was okay with drafting men for the war effort. Chasing down draft dodgers. State-mandated rationing. Social stigmatization of dissenters. Censorship of the mail and press during the war. For all intents and purposes she was in a socialist system complete with Mao-like social trials. She was fine with that because the nation was… Read more »

Lineman
Guest
Lineman

I have no interest in taking your stuff for me or having mine taken for you. But I am open to taxation and giving if I am doing for My People.
I am only open to a sales tax and tariffs on exports and imports to support a homogeneous society…I think most on here would be ok with that…

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

Lineman, Yessir. Now we are on the same page. I have my own personal preferences for supporting a society for Our People that are similar to yours. We are discussing financing Our People. That’s the ultimate goal. The rest is details to be haggled out. The perfect is the enemy of the good enough. Many of us say we are willing to fight and die for Our People if they can just pull the wool from their ears and prove to us they are worthy of sacrifice. Should they do so, I will not quibble about how many or few… Read more »

UpYours
Guest
UpYours

Indeed I think now many Americans would support a tariff if it meant supporting a blue collar worker in Buffalo over an America hating drone in Gangzhou

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

Bingo! Now who controls the “framing” narrative? And why don’t they support American businesses?

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

Penitent Man – YES! This! I have tried searching online for some sort of charity that specifically helps White Americans (without spelling it out) – something locally based within the Appalachians or a similar area. My husband wanted to know what I planned to do with all our son’s old (unbroken and some even new but now useless-for-him) prescription glasses. I plan to trash them – I will not have them doled out to the Mestizo or African for free, when my husband worked and we sacrificed financially to ensure our kids had those glasses or braces or whatever. I… Read more »

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

3g4me, Ma’am, I can’t give too many details but recently I collected lightly used work attire and through a personal contact and a bugger load of driving on both our parts (I’m a catholic and he’s a Baptist but we could agree on the cause) and were able to shod a full shift of men working a lumber mill in Appalachia. Most had tennis shoes on while doing that dangerous job for min. wage. There are ways to help Our People. Not just Appalachia. Help with clubs where Ours gather almost exclusively. Certain sports, 4H, rodeo scene, birding and nature… Read more »

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

Infinity up-votes. 4-H is the best! Scouts, Campfire, Pioneers, AMC, (I’m sure their are more.) You can get your kids involved even if you don’t live on acreage.

Veth
Guest
Veth

Depends on the location. I was turned down as a 4H leader because I told them that I didn’t think that 4H was mostly white because racism during training (know that first hand) and that I didn’t support racial quotas. I support outreach and letting people decide for themselves. The county leader explicitly told me that local 4h was too white. I appealed, but this is California and the leader was found to not have overstepped the boundaries.

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

Veth,

Alright. Lesson learned. For now, discretion is our byword. Maybe next time try stealth, and then after you’ve built your cred, silently torpedo that pozzed individual. Take their position. De facto power is a far cry better than de jure. I know it’s hard to keep quiet when you hear injustice or nonsense. Simply use it to fuel your fire and future plans.

Veth
Guest
Veth

That’s how all the other leaders had been playing it, and maybe you/they are right. But that method hasn’t stopped the erosion here in Cali. Someone has to take point and give others a chance to step forward, or serve as an example as to how far thing have gone. It might as well be someone who is not that vulnerable, like me.

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

Penitent Man – Bless you for your generosity. I understand loving ours does not automatically mean hating theirs, but it’s turning into that for me. When every name on your church’s Christmas “Angel Tree” is Han or Pajeet or Mestizo, the anger builds. Every time I pay at the grocery store (and that’s too often, because despite my efforts at being better organized I make multiple short trips a week) I grit my teeth because of the picture stuck on every payment slot of the smiling Mexican/Indian kid (not certain which) and the “For OUR Children” propaganda that accompanies it.… Read more »

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

3g4me, No ma’am. I wasn’t generous I was fortunate God saw my hands fit to use in some minuscule way. The Baptist missionary is a Lion though you’d never know by looking at him. He was able to go into the region because he has gained the trust of a distrustful and oft-broken people there. The work attire mission opened several other communities that were previously closed to him. That’s God. The Baptist missionary is physically tiny and old but a fearless, towering soldier of His Will. Find something, anything to help Our People. It doesn’t have to be charity.… Read more »

SamlAdams
Guest
SamlAdams

There is a world of difference between “voluntary” as part of a community and “mandated” on behalf of one’s rulers. There is a wonderful line from Cromwell to Charles the I in the movie “Cromwell”. “It is simply that the people, being “ordinary”, would rather be asked than told”

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Voluntary sharing within the community is part of the deal. Lefties, with their devotion to top down redistribution, assume that the government seizing everything, and then passing it out, is the same thing. Likewise, the local community voluntarily taking in a wayward soul, or a family in need, is also part of the deal. Lefties assume that overrunning the borders with illegal economic opportunists is the same thing. Lefties operate as atomized people, and can’t conceive of the community and local shared interests. Everything is top-down with them.

Nunnya Bidnez, jr.
Guest
Nunnya Bidnez, jr.

I learned a new word lately..
it’s the opposite of “volunteered”
it happens when someone else demands you volunteer for something.
it is “VolunTOLD”
as in “I was voluntold to work in the soup kitchen”

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

So please help me understand. Most of us here agree we, as white people, are facing an existential crisis of being replaced and reviled in the countries our ancestors built and bequeathed us. Our treacherous ruling class is flooding us with often hostile foreigners, dismantling our history and culture, fomenting aggression from non-whites toward Us while attempting to foster a sense of self-shame in Our children over the very color of their skin. We are to be vilified for the limited days of Our Peoples’ existence. And yet we quibble over the exact number of shekels we want to contribute… Read more »

Member

She was lacking the coercion, the implied and often overt threat of violence which underpins Socialism.

Nice try though kid, please play again soon.

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

Bile, Yessir, I see your point. I’m trying to break through the conditioning to reject the perfect vs. good ’nuff conundrum. I’m no socialist. But I am willing to accept a bill outside my personal preferential cost if it means Our People survive and thrive. I don’t care about debating the number of angels that’ll fit on the head of a pin whilst civilization burns around me. The Scandi up until recently made some socialism beneficial to their people. And threat of coercion and violence are not the sole creatures of socialism. Disproportionate power of any stripe holds those reins.… Read more »

Member

“Would you like some multicultural sauce with that Progressive Sandwich, sir?”

Weevil Knievel
Guest
Weevil Knievel

Name the sandwich, man.

(Kidding, kidding.)

(Sort of.)

Member

I think you’re traveling to the snowy north this week so have a good trip. I always enjoy your travel writing. If this whole dissident right thing doesn’t work out perhaps you have another career 🙂

the Russians
Member

I know I need to grow up but pointed digs at French always make me giggle.

MemeWarVet
Guest
MemeWarVet

What’s crazy is that Buckley Conservatism was considered far-Right when he first showed up in the public sphere during Ike’s time. Tells you something about how far back our problems go.

LineInTheSand
Guest
LineInTheSand

The problem that Z describes is how conservatives usually retreat from the moral conservative communities that they really want to demands for mere low taxes and no social services. French is a great example of this.

I can sympathize with their strategy. If you stand up for a conservative community, you are harshly criticized for being a Nazi. Conservatives hoped that their mere economic demands would allow them to preserve their communities, but the capitalists destroyed what they cherished.

UpYours
Guest
UpYours

Still chafes me that many moronic cuckservatives oppose massive wealth taxes on the billionaires because muh free mawket, muh job creators. However, the tide is turning after Trump’s election. Many ex-conservatives now favor Liewatha style taxes on Bezos and Zuckerfuck.

The Babe
Member
The Babe

The paradise at the end is a shopping mall full of atomized strangers. I recently had a deeply blackpilling experience of this “paradise” when I visited a Wal-Mart in Texas. Where does one begin? Morbid obesity. People dressed entirely without dignity. Mexicanization in full view. Obvious illegals everywhere. Huge bags and boxes of processed sugar/carb foods. Fat welfare families. Tasteless tattoos. Race-mixing. Lonely singles of all ages loading up with snacks to take home to their small apartments. Black and Latino rap music going at the same time in the parking lot. People with no savings (or considerable debt) driving… Read more »

CAPT S
Guest
CAPT S

Yep, whenever I get a tad optimistic I just visit the nearest WalMart to regain my pessimism.

Pimpkin\'s nephew
Guest
Pimpkin\'s nephew

Change ‘in Texas’ to ‘in western New York’ and the same gloomy description holds. This would have been untrue even ten years ago. Throw in the joyless ubiquity of ‘Dollar Generals’ on the outskirts of every crumbling small town hereabouts, as places to black pill if you can’t get to a Wal-Mart.

UFO
Guest
UFO

Shop local. Shop Christian. Shop white. Take your money out of the system….

without white men’s money, it collapses….

KGB
Guest
KGB

And some are even worse than others. If you go to the Walmart in Hamburg it’s tolerable, go to the one where I live (farther down the lake shore) and it’s ghastly. Dollar Generals are so ghetto as to be classified as self-contained blight.

Member

Yep, those images suggest the U.S. may be in worse shape than any other Western country.

Member

Hmm. The Walmarts in Southeastern Ohio are generally quite nice. The ones near the Black and Somali neighborhoods in Columbus are intolerable, though. Honestly, the obesity and the sloppy dressing don’t even register with me, anymore. Poor people buy the Walmart clothes that are available to them. I remember a long time ago — 20 years? — Walmart stocked sports jackets and dress clothes. You could pick up a servicable jacket, shirt trousers and tie you could wear to a job interview. No more. I don’t know if nobody was buying them and that’s why they stopped carrying them. Meanwhile… Read more »

UFO
Guest
UFO

That’s very interesting, I had the same experience at the Wal-Mart in my city. Instead of blacks and Latinos, it’s full of random Indians and Filipinos, Thais, Bangladeshis, burkas, Arabs, etc. The staff of this Wal-Mart are at least 60% Indian. And this is a new thing, there weren’t very many Indians at this store last year. Everybody looks so miserable, but most of all uncomfortable. Do you think the Filipinos came to Canada to be surrounded by a bunch of rude Indians and Arabs? The white proles also look uncomfortable. I can’t say they’re awfully dressed, or particularly trashy,… Read more »

UFO
Guest
UFO

This seems to be a common thing that white people do. They don’t like to talk about massive problems. They will bitch about small things, but go silent about things that should be spoken about. I can think of an analogy. When my dad cooks fish, it always stinks up the house. (I think it’s because he’s a bad cook; it never stinks that bad when I cook it). There is always an uncomfortable thought “lingering” in the house afterwards. Everyone knows the house stinks, but nobody says anything out of politeness. Think of this; but on a national or… Read more »

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

Babe, folks may not remember this, but Wal-Mart did not start out with cheap third world products. They were big and expanding nationwide with their marketing slogans, “look for the union label”, “made in USA”. Somewhere along the line, probably starting with Reagan, but certainly when Clinton finished the NAFTA deal early in his administration, that all changed. Wal-Mart went Global and even anti-American. Not sure what part old man Sam Walton played at that point, but his kids and wife became super rich in the years after Sam Walton died (1992). Last I read, the Walton Family was the… Read more »

CAPT S
Guest
CAPT S

Great insights Z-man. Thirty or so years ago I read NR cover-to-cover. About the best thing the magazine did for me as a young man was to introduce me to the likes of Solzhenitsyn, Vaclav Havel, Russel Kirk, Whittaker Chambers, and Albert Jay Nock. There were good men of great ideas that used to show up between the NR covers; they transcended Buckley many times over. Reading that magazine through the 80s is where I learned how to chew conservative meat and spit out the sanctimonious bones. I believe Gresham’s Law backs up a point you’re making: given the marketplace… Read more »

The Babe
Member
The Babe

And never forget that we had an Inside Man at National Review: John Derbyshire.

Nobody has done more to point me towards Redpill Road. All these things I heard first from Derb: human biodiversity, IQ and the dumb fraction, magic dirt, the cold civil war, goodwhites/badwhites, numbers are of the essence, “Japan is Japan because it’s full of Japanese.” Not to mention the first place I heard of Audacious Epigone, Chateau Heartiste, and the Zman!

This guy was standing at the Gate secretly letting people through when the other gatekeepers weren’t looking.

CAPT S
Guest
CAPT S

Absolutely – Derbyshire. Wasn’t an intentional omission but an important one. Thanks for the catch.

Dissiident’s Law # 317: Any author fired by National Review is on our side.

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

Sorry Babe, but you give him far too much credit. I’m glad he opened the gate for you, but I learned of all you mention totally independent of him – and years before he was depersoned by the Official Right. And despite his supposed understanding of human biodiversity, he keeps pushing for a White/Asian mutual admiration society. I’m glad for him that he loves his wife and family, but they are NOT a model for our society at large.

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

Not to mention that Peter Brimelow of VDare was “inside” before (or at least along with) Derbyshire but was othered years earlier for questioning immigration when he wrote “Alien Nation.” Derb still hewed closer to the official line and, even now – when he’s hosted by Peter – his view of HBD has a large “Verboten” sign re the JQ.

Hilltop
Guest
Hilltop

I feel like the dog that isn’t barking in this debate is religion. Or, to put it very generally, moral standards independent of the market.

In the 1950s, for example, even if it had been legal to put women in g-strings grinding up against each other on TV, people wouldn’t have done it, just because of general moral standards.

The market functioned within these standards. When those standards disappear, then the market expands into the porno-dystopia we see today.

Of course, that raises the complicated question: did the market itself destroy those standards, or did they come under attack from some other quarter?

JR Wirth
Guest
JR Wirth

Today we have “True Religion.” Another brand owned by a hedge fund. Even if you found a church, it most likely teaches the prosperity gospel, which is a nice twist on the real gospel. So don’t expect to get grounded at most churches. Jesus wants you to be happy after all, buy that venti-soy latte. Rejoice before walking into Pottery Barn. Don’t forget to tithe so the pastor’s daughter can buy her jeans at True Religion…first fruits after all…

Member

I believe it was a systematic, deliberate attack from Hollywood and the educational system. Watch how movies changed from the ’40s-’50s through the ’60s-’70s. Hollywood went from enforcing the popular morality and culture to undermining it. The heroes became criminal deviate outcast like the lead characters in Easy Rider. Movie like The Graduate undermined and denigrated traditional White, middle-class morality and aspirations. Sitcoms like All in the Family and M*A*S*H, even The Mary Tyler Moore Show were a non-stop war on traditional American values. Meanwhile, the educational system of the ’60s and beyond was a relentless propaganda drumbeat of egalitarianism,… Read more »

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

Prior to the “Hays code” pretty much anything went, when it came to cinema. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Picture_Production_Code Every so often TCM (a/k/a the black-and-white movie channel) airs these films after hours. Even the “shorts” are genuinely fascinating.

Member

Yes, I know. Hollywood has always been populated by whores and degenerates. They were simply forced to restrain themselves during the Hays Code years. Hollywood continued to work within the confines of the Production Code throughout the 1950s, but during this time, the movie industry was faced with very serious competitive threats. The first threat came from a new technology, television, which did not require Americans to leave their house to watch moving pictures. Hollywood needed to offer the public something it could not get on television, which itself was under an even more restrictive censorship code. “Oh, gosh, we… Read more »

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

Viz, I don’t know how we counter it. Or if even “countering it” is(/not) a concession to a framework none of us agreed to. I’d love to know the way forward. You tell me.

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

Return, I lost my love of free speech when I found out as a young man that’s what “protected” prostitutes plying their trade… as long as it was in front of a camera. It’s the pharasees in black that are the problem. The judges. The men and women whose whims we lessers have to subordinate ourselves to. Lifetime appointees that command us but do not command even a single officer, agent or soldier. Sure, they make their ruling but it is an executive at some level that decides whether or not to enforce that ruling with his “troops.” More and… Read more »

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

Vizzini,

Well formulated and passionate as per your usual. Always a pleasure to read your posts.

Member

This seems ironically apropo in light of my question “Who gets to decide what the morality of the people is?”

https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapman/report-communist-china-replacing-ten-commandments-quotes-president-xi

I’ve verified that this seems to be real. Fortunately we are not Chinese and should not want many Chinese in our country (as they don’t want us in theirs). The consequences of this move are God’s to deal with. I suspect it will backfire on them.

dad29
Guest

Yes….and the law itself began allowing moral decay. Laws against adultery and homosex practices were obviated; marriage became an option (both before- and after the fact) because “society” decided to pay for profligacy through welfare. The US was (and still is) such an affluent society that all this could be financed, ergo, it became licit.

That’s going to end, of course.

Member

I’m not a religious guy myself, but used to think Christianity was a positive force. I’m not so sure anymore — perhaps Nietzsche was right that Christianity was a strong feminizing force on the West.

Stina
Guest
Stina

Christianity that promotes the leadership of women is feminized and is to be avoided at all costs. If you suspect someone is a feminized Christian, just ask them their opinion on the women in leadership in the church. If they support ordination or women leading men, they are feminized and practicing an unbiblical Christianity. This is not necessarily linked to denomination. Currently, the only denominations NOT ordaining women are Southern Baptists, Orthodox, and Catholics (currently up for consideration in two of those). Forming a coalition of Christians who promote the masculine leadership of the church across denominations, I think, will… Read more »

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

Yes this Stina! Absolutely spot on. There was some hubbub about a Catholic synod “open to hearing about” ordination of women. That won’t go anywhere. (God forbid). The meat of the meeting is to allow married priests, the female ordination is just blather. Celibacy for priest falls under a discipline in Catholicism and has always been subject to change. Male only priests is dogmatic and is inviolable. To breach that is heresy. Even Francis wouldn’t dare. Of course, she the Vatican ever do so I’ll send a letter asking for excommunication from their herecy so my soul won’t be tarnished… Read more »

JR Wirth
Guest
JR Wirth

The Catholics have their own problems. Catholicism is a fifth column in this country. True though. No female leadership.

dad29
Guest

No female ‘leadership,’ but you won’t find many real men in leadership, either.

JR Wirth
Guest
JR Wirth

Very true.

De Ferres
Guest
De Ferres

What are we a fifth column for? I have yet to receive my marching orders.

JR Wirth
Guest
JR Wirth

Your bishops sure have the marching orders. The fifth column is about laundering government grant money while settling the replacement of you.

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

De Ferres,

As a co-religionist I understand your pause, though I have to agree with JR. The Church is in grave trouble. It is in need of a drastic cleansing. There are groups within fighting the heresy and rot. Peter’s Church will shine again… but how long and through what tribulations God knows. As of now, they only increase and sustain the attack and degeneration of the West.

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

JR Worth, Other than a strong stance against abortion I am afraid I must agree with you, even as a Catholic. That hurts to admit. The Church has become a greater force of destruction here of late than a positive force. They are part and parcel of flooding the US with “refugees”. Of flooding Europe with Africans and muslims. Francis seems more concerned with Gaia than God. Of paying lip service to fighting pederasty and all but condoning homosexuality and the purple mafia. It is a problem that is cyclical. Peter was given the holy task of building the Church… Read more »

Cerulean
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Cerulean

Lutheran Church — Missouri Synod (LCMS)
Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS)
Evangelical Lutheran Synod (ELS)

None of these denominations ordains women. Each of them is a nataion-wide denomination, despite the state names in their titles.

Member

You’d approve of these girls.
https://realitycallsshow.com/

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

Bile,

Couldn’t get the link to work. Maybe it’s my connection. Specific search name so I can locate it please?

Penitent Man
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Penitent Man

Christianity is a positive force. Problem is finding actual Christians in most churches. You’ll hear Ophra-sized gems on niceness and if your super lucky you’ll get to hear about your privilege. Love your neighbor and dont be judgy… you know… times they are a changing and maybe homosexuality is a good thing. It’s the poz wearing the tattered skin of some unfortunate religious sect that flirted too closely with progressivism. Spiritual not religious. Stone walls on a foundation of sand. There are still churches out there. You can find them. They may not be shiny and grand. They may make… Read more »

JR Wirth
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JR Wirth

The problem with the marketism destroying local markets is second only to the flood of immigration we’re facing. Amazon is a celebrated multi-billion dollar company, so is WalMart, etc., but they’ve left gaping holes in our society. Holes that used to be filled by local businesses. Banks are the same way. I can’t fathom why anyone would use Chase or some national bank, when perfectly good local banks and credit unions exist. For the most part, we’re buying everything from the same oligarchies with different storefronts, and the same Macaroni Grill next to the same BJ’s with the same Coldstone… Read more »

Member

There’s no doubt conservatism has failed. I think pictures tell the story better than anything — go back and look at pictures from any Western city in the early 1960s and compare those to today. It’s completely jarring — so much attractiveness back then, so much deformity now. David French is Dr. Pangloss — a person who can’t admit things have gone awry should not be taken seriously. An additional factor that must be mentioned is the welfare state — is it compatible with human nature? Social security eliminates a significant reason to have kids, and aid to single women… Read more »

Member

GloboHomoGayplex with a Side of Lard Sunday I went to the Big Enclosed Mall for the first time in years. Sure, it has become more Mexican and other minority-laden–which means more crude in every respect. What really hammered home the globo-homo-gayplex-fatty-geist were the graphical printed advertisements–facing outward from and adorning the interiors–of the clothing stores. Holy Fatty Mystery-Meat on a Tricycle. In Ancient Times (5+ years ago, last time I entered Big Enclosed Mall) these graphics were dominated by attractive people wearing the products of the stores. The idea was to show a beautiful, idealized fantasy where people who bought… Read more »

UFO
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UFO

Ya.

“White nationalists” seem to suffer cognitive dissonance too, but this time it is about the state of the white race.

Boomercons are stuck in 1980, when whites were still a majority.
WN’s are stuck in 1950, when obesity was minimal, whites were all tall, thin, blond and respectable.

We need to take an honest assessment of how the average white person is today. And frankly many are disgusting. WTF is wrong with them? I dunno. It seems that they have no morals, manners, values, or common sense. Very sad.

The only place I see decent whites nowadays is at church.

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

UFO, It’s a sad truth. So many times I want to grab some tubby young white man or woman waddling down the sidewalk and make them come to the gym with me… make them strong and healthy. Or reach through some wiggers driverside window and turn off their rap music while telling them, “This isn’t your people’s music. You are better than this.” Seize the pudgy could-be-cute young lady by her nose ring or blue hair and make her see what she looks likes and is becoming and give her a vision of what she could be. And if I… Read more »

Ayatollah Rockandrollah
Member

Some of them are hammering away at their own generation with some fairly reactionary punk music, such as Negative XP’s “Scott Pilgrim vs. the World Ruined a Whole Generation of Women.” And a few other 2-minute jams of similar sentiment (if you consult the lyrics).

JR Wirth
Guest
JR Wirth

I see this all the time. You can see this in Home Depot ads too. Most people are totally blind to it. By the way, just how many in-tact upper-middle class African American families do we have anyway? You would think they were 40% of the population. Of course it’s not about advertising to blacks, it’s about advertising to left-of-center whites brainwashed by the Huxtables, who feel tingly inside that black people are finally making it into the mainstream white suburban lifestyle (which they aren’t and never will). In 100 years, blacks will still be the un-popped kernels at the… Read more »

TomA
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TomA

Civilization has only been around for a few thousand years, and so is a relatively new development in the history of our evolution. It is a man-made consequence of urbanization and is an optimization that evolved from many prior models (e.g. civilization “works” better than barbarianism for example). All social evolution is driven by fitness selection criteria of these new environments that we are now creating for ourselves. Conservatives yearn for the rebirth of the noble beast that can live in harmony with others. The modern elites want us to morph into insects.

TimNY
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TimNY

This is an excellent post. A good companion piece, and they dovetail together, is an essay by Sam Francis in 1996 discussing Middle America and its political interests.
https://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/1996/March/20/3/magazine/article/10838366/

Jack Dobson
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Jack Dobson

Thanks for that link, TimNY. Sam Francis was so, so far ahead of the curve and many of the themes he set out twenty-three years ago are the basis of today’s widespread dismissal of Conservatism, Inc. Amazing how that column not only has held up but proven prophetic. This passage struck me most: “I told (Pat Buchanan, in his second presidential run) privately that he would be better off without all the hangers-on, direct-mail artists, fund-raising whiz kids, marketing and PR czars, and the rest of the crew that today constitutes the backbone of all that remains of the famous… Read more »

3g4me
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3g4me

Another keeper, Zman. Let’s see if your inspired prose here can do more than my arguments have to wean my husband from his dogmatic support of muh free market. My respect for authority and tradition have grown as I have matured, and my insistence on individualism has faded as I’ve come to realize the essential role of society – despite my misanthropy and need for privacy and space, I accept that I cannot and do not exist in an individual bubble. Now on to read the comments – which I usually do before commenting – but I wanted to praise… Read more »

Oldtradesman
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Oldtradesman

I am not religious. Yet I believe the following resources will help you:

1. The Church and the Libertarian: A Defense of the Catholic Church’s Teaching on Man, Economy, and State – Christopher A. Ferrara
2. Toward a Truly Free Market: A Distributist Perspective on the Role of Government, Taxes, Health Care, Deficits, and More – John C. Medaille
3. More Distributist authors may be found here: https://distributistreview.com/authors/

Always remember, too, that the party controlling the contract is the one with the most resources.

Member

I’m surprised that nobody pointed out the real cost of college athletics, which is the rise of the depts who really serve no other purpose than to give low-IQ athletes an easy major which will allow them to remain as students in the academy. Probably better than 90% of the athletes in college today do not belong in an institution of higher learning. Many, if not most, did not even truly earn a high school diploma. These departments are the academic equivalent of bamboo radio control towers and dirt runways. They are an ape of academia.

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

Baseball has “AAA,” “AA,” and the independent and instructional leagues. Baseball players are rarely put in the position of posing as college graduates. Unfortunately “Big U” needs the booster income from football and basketball. That would be an interesting subject of inquiry.

Exile
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Exile

Discrediting and defunding the institutional GOP is more important than dealing with the Dems. A one-party Democrat state will be less stable and less capable than a kabuki two party state, and shapeshifters will find it harder to hide in the weeds once ideological ground-clutter like French and Williamson is pensioned off. Take down the weaker link first.

Travel day for H8ers Ball – will chip in some travel-rage venting later.

Rod1963
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Rod1963

Excellent post.

Tucker also came to a similar conclusion when he stated the current conservative view is for man to serve capitalism(aka the “free market”) no matter what the cost is to society and people. And pushing destructive notions such as it’s better for a woman to have a career than a family.

ProUSA
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ProUSA

Good article. I’m still playing catch up. I thought Buckley and Kirk were somewhat simpatico; but I knew French, Lowrey(?), and the new guys who run NR are not simpatico with Buckley/Kirk.

Gauss
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Gauss

Places like this are examples of where the smart people end up who boiled off the leftist and Conservative Inc strongholds. Articles and comments here are set at a much higher level than the drivel you’ll find from the likes of David French or similar, not to mention the howling loons in the legacy media.

Bruno the Arrogant
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Bruno the Arrogant

What always galls me is the conflation of free markets with individual liberty. I figure that the more autonomous I am, the freer I am.

But free trade insures your industry and expertise will be moving overseas, guaranteeing you’ll be dependent on China. I have a hard time believing greater dependency leads to greater personal liberty. That’s the major delusion of libertarianism. They aren’t selling liberty, what they’re actually selling is dependency.

Free trade means being able to buy cheap crap from China. Personal liberty means you’re in a position to tell China to take their cheap crap and shove it.

Stina
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Stina

One of the biggest criticisms of Christianity that I had heard growing up is that it had too many rules and they just want to be free to do what they want.

The interesting thing about your observation and Z’s is that it mirrors the freedom Paul claims following Christ gives. It’s a strange oxymoron and tension of seeming contradiction, but your conclusion is exactly the resolution.

JR Wirth
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JR Wirth

And we want the cheap crap. If the average American goes out to buy a dishwasher, it will usually be among the cheaper dishwashers. So all dishwashers eventually become cheaply made, causing a death spiral of cheapness. So now we’re stuck buying a disposable dishwasher every five or 10 years…the circuit board change always being within $50 of the cheap new dishwasher. There’s a scam afoot.

Stina
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Stina

This, combined with VD’s usury posts, made my day. Now, if only I was a better writer who could succinctly encapsulate a message to explode heads on a conservative blogging site…

Member

Conservatism became ‘libertarianism’ because of money, not politics and this largely transpired after the retirement of the Soviet Union as The Adversary that made Fusionism make sense. The problem of ‘conservatism’ not being able to conserve anything, however, goes at least back to Burke, because ‘conservatism’ always existed in an accommodation with Liberalism. It really had no choice. Conservatism is collapsing because Liberalism is collapsing, the premises that support both movements have been fatally undermined. This is why any attempt at Restoration by trying to recapture a prior period of the Modern era is doomed to fail. The past is… Read more »

JR Wirth
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JR Wirth

It’s not really conservatism vs. liberalism, it’s human nature vs. systems created by fools and dreamers. Human nature will always find a way. It did with the Soviet Union, and it will today.

Ant Man Bee
Guest

Excellent analysis from Z; the business about “market ism” is especially astute. There’s another lens through which to view all this, of course. One might call it an organic view. Much of what I think about politics, I basically learned from raising beefsteak tomatoes and other garden vegetable in my back yard as a kid. Old-times “conservatism” failed in large measure because it turned itself into a giant game of Twister, where the ultimate goal of the game was to avoid at all costs stating clearly the basic underlying premise of American politics, which is an organic, biological premise, more… Read more »

Ursula
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Ursula

So true! Turns out Archie Bunker was right about everything.

dad29
Guest

The underlying truth of radicalism is that it not only seeks to free men from the human condition, but it seeks to have them rise to the heavens and become gods.

HUZZAH!!!!!

Didn’t work out well for Adam and Eve, won’t work out well for anyone else.

Rogeru
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Rogeru

“To consume product is the end point of existence”

Years ago on TRS the meme, “walking alimentary canal” was coined for such an existence.

CAPT S
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CAPT S

“What is on offer from so-called conservatives is a different type of hell than what is on offer from their partners on the Left.” It’s kind of like those who argue about the best pizza: Dominoes or Pizza Hut. Once you’ve had real pizza you realize that both choices suck. The GOP vs Dem choice was like that through the 90s. Today the choices have dwindled to a slab of cardboard with ketchup and imitation cheese vs a slab of cardboard. Does anyone else here read the old offerings of Wendell Berry? He’s a hard guy to label with left… Read more »

dad29
Guest

IIRC, Berry was a Southern Agrarian. You’re correct: the ‘urban masses’–including middle- and lower-middle working class families–are not really ready to grow their own when the SHTF…..

Rcocean
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Rcocean

Libertarianism can never win because its an individualist philosophy going up a against a Left-wing group philosophy. Atomized individuals believing in Greed vs. an organized group with an end game in mind, power now and utopia later. BTW, Kevin Williamson is just a con man and grifter. He’d be writing for the WaPo as a leftist, if he could get hired. Sadly for him, their white man quota excludes nobodies from Texas U.

Rodulf
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Rodulf

“Buckley style” conservatism failed because it did not address and accept the reality of race and racial biology…

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉
Guest

This is better and fairer than your past treatments of Buckley. You’re also correct is diagnosing conservatism INC in the present day. Again you are condemning a man long dead for what’s being done by his successors but I suppose Buckley’s name has gravitas and French’s does not. And if the dissident right ever wants to go anywhere it will have to compromise to get power as well. This business of the living blaming their failures on the dead is graceless and probably fruitless, unmanly. I suppose it pays enough to keep the lights on. Certainly its very modern, Angelas… Read more »

Tadeusz Korzeniewski
Member

Our overzealous Mr. Clean, as he was purging the immigration-restrictionists―and prospective “antisemites,” an inevitable consequence of such an attitude―from his NR staff, he even ratted publically (1992) on his own father as an habitual antisemite. When he kicked the bucket in 2008, his son, in turn, sold him out by revealing to the public that in his concluding years William F. Buckley Jr. while on the road would crack open the door of his chauffeured limousine and secretly sprinkle his bladder’s contents into the speedway commonwealth. Thus ended modern American conservatism. With a pee.