Andrew Tate

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Andrew Tate is a former professional kickboxer who transformed himself into an internet personality by mixing ghetto culture with manosphere memes. He offered courses to young males in the art of being a pickup artist. He gained widespread attention after his banning from social media platforms. He is currently in a Romanian prison awaiting trial for a number of sex crimes. Despite his predicament, he remains boastful about his abilities and what lies ahead for him.

Tate’s penchant for display items and cartoonish misogyny have not only made him famous, but it has also put the spotlight on the internet manosphere. Tate is viewed as the extreme expression of a lifestyle that is free of all cultural coercion. It is not that the pickup artist lives solely to sate his appetites. It is that he rejects all of the conventions of society with regards to how a man should live. By conventions, they always mean the highly feminized rules and the modern West.

It is more than a bit ironic that the people who have been gnawing away at conventional sex roles in order to liberate women are now up in arms over men doing the same thing, but for the purpose of liberating men. It also speaks to the feminization of Western societies that the people seeking liberation from cultural norms are young males hoping to prey on women raised on feminism. Women were liberated so that liberated males can treat them like prostitutes.

To further add to the irony, much of the modern left-wing liberation movement is about freeing nonwhites from cultural coercion. You see, according to woke theory, nonwhites can never truly be free until they eradicate white power structures. These are defined as the norms of Western society. Of course, one of those norms used to be how males should behave toward females. It looks like the woke would like to keep some of the old white power structure they claim to oppose.

That gets to the heart of the matter. Andrew Tate is not a man. He is a caricature of what it means to be a man. He is what second wave feminist called a chauvinist, a male who defines himself by minimizing women. Back in the heyday of second wave feminism, such men existed mostly in the agitated imaginations of recently divorced women, but now thanks to the miracle of the internet, they are legion. Feminism literally created what it claimed to oppose.

The reason these internet personalities specializing in the art of exploiting women have grown in number is they appeal to the young male’s natural rebelliousness. Those old white power structures used to have systems for young males to “sow their wild oats” and then settle into the normal routine of being a responsible man. Those have been wrecked by feminism. It turns out that there is little point in being a responsible man when the women are not good at being women.

In fairness, feminism would never have gone anywhere if ruling class males had done their duty and maintained the old ways. The bourgeois society that arose in the 20th century, especially in America, brought bourgeois degeneracy with it. Over the course of the 20th century, America and then the West has come to be defined by the coffee house radical seeking new ways to stand out from tradition and custom. Feminism and the pickup artist are two manifestations of this process.

Interestingly, both Andrew Tate and his woke feminist critics are right. From his perspective, the hedonistic lifestyle built around the exploitation of liberated women is completely rational. If modern society has no rewards for playing the traditional male role, if in fact it punishes those who play that role, then logic says the male should reject that role and seek profit where he can find it. Biologically that means getting as much high status stuff and as many females as possible.

The woke feminists are also correct in pointing out that males living outside the feminist cultural norms are a direct threat to their existence. Modern bourgeois society depends upon males playing the traditional roles in key areas, while the ruling class free rides off of their efforts. It is a parasitic relationship that can only work if the males among the Dirt People play along with it. The lifestyle of Andrew Tate threatens the balance between the host and the parasite.

Of course, no society can survive if the males are like Andrew Tate and the females are like his woke feminist critics. To be a man is to be trusted by other men to keep safe that which is important to men. Andrew Tate cannot be trusted around your women or your belongings, so he is not a man. In a crisis, the first thing that happens is the men in charge kill the guys like Andrew Tate. It is addition by subtraction. Not having to worry about him leaves time for important matters.

Similarly, the woke feminists will disappear in a crisis. In fact, all forms of feminism will disappear as soon as things get serious again. For starters, the men in charge will have no patience for it. Like Andrew Tate, some nag complaining about the unfairness of biology is an unnecessary distraction. The responsible females will quickly move in to put a muzzle on these women. When the crisis comes, look for mobs of middle-aged mothers reviving the ducking stool.

In the end, Andrew Tate and his woke feminist antagonists are both products of the carny morality that springs from bourgeois society. Free to indulge in their worst instincts, a bourgeois ruling class will do their worst and then seek to normalize it among the people over whom the rule. Like the people who live the life of excess, a society ruled this way ends in physical and mental despair. Like the man of excess, a society of excess eventually needs an intervention.

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201 thoughts on “Andrew Tate”

  1. Roissy/Heartiste was the one and only, and always more reflective about it than the book-sellers. Then, of course, he turned 40, grew up and moved on. And that whole genre moved on with him; it was a specific time and place and won’t be replicated.

  5. “Women were liberated so that liberated males can treat them like prostitutes.”

    Sounds about right. Seriously though, the basic tension in modern society and the reason it seems to be getting less stable is probably just derived from the fact that you’ve got all these people whose natural roles have become impossible or irrelevant. Most women would do best in the same roles they always had, as wives and mothers. The modern ruling class felt that there “wasn’t a need for that job description” as much and set about trying to contrive all these new places to put them. They mostly don’t fit there and actually cause problems so modern men have seen fit to define their roles, downwards, to something they indisputably CAN do.

    There’s a lot of this in the modern West, from the low-IQ ghetto Blacks to the tens of millions of borderline insane corporation wammen there are ever more people that you just have to ask “what they hell can we really do with these people?” with the subtext being that eventually they will need to be “neutralized” in some (hopefully) humane way. This larger issue is why, whatever political arrangements are arrived at long term they will probably be some variant of resegregation and Sharia type arrangements for women. The alternative is chaos and collapse.

    • It may be a way to get out of not charging Trump because “both sides do it.” Of course, there will be no trashy Gestapo-style raid of Biden’s home in Delaware whatever happens. We can say for certain the Junta will not charge a fellow gangster with anything.

  6. This just in

    Apparently President Poopy 💩 Pants is supposedly being investigated by the DOJ regarding classified document handling.

    Is this how the deep state gets rid of the Potato in Chief?!

    • Zman has it right.

      Biden will be the first President re elected with over 100 million votes.

      Between “fortification” and the Republican amnesty, it’s uniparty forever.

  7. I really dont know what to think about Tate. At first glance hes just another coloured hustler angling for some white p*ssy by any means necessary (thats 100% of them). Hes also a muslim which makes him more sketchy or perhaps even saudi funded. He came out of nowhere.

    However he has said some very good things about women and unplugging from the matrix in general. Once somebody starts thinking too much in one area, it spreads to others.

    Almost every man on the Dissident Right is well versed in manosphere and PUA. Personally its helped me alot, although its mostly just distilling down what i kind of learned through trial and error. Id often be like “oh right” when reading a new point, the idea was already in my head but it had never been elaborated upon.

    The freakout against him is interesting too. Hes obviously a clown but the left cant help themselves.

    Dont know what it means for our people. Lots of things make less sense now, you just have to roll with it. Anyways regardless of his motives hes going to rot in jail for the crime of criticizing one of the Gods, Greta Thunberg.

    • Tate is a con man, but he is right about women. However, those Maxim teachings were all laid out from, Chateau Heartiste, (back in 2014 or even earlier for free) Of course the wordpress got shut down due to some feminazis. The comment section on CH did go down the gem rabbit hole too much so, yet again the special people were involved. Anyway, the dissident right should have an arsenal of PUA knowledge, and use for dealing with everday beta males and women. Christianity is dead, the old ‘noble’ man traditionnis are dead because clown world has killed a lot of unneccasary methods of understandong and interacting with the world. It’s natural for a succesful male to have a harem of women (or many mistresses) Nature won’t change unless we eat ze bugs, sleep in pods and upload our souls to a meggafag meta verse, so my problem with Tate is that he is not actually a good ‘player’, just an obnoxious one. A good PUA doesn’t need to boast and show off,

  8. Gen Y men turned to the manosphere not to get laid, or to become ideologues. If you came into the scene early, it was filled with mostly latch-key kids and divorced dads looking for answers. They wanted to know they were hated so much, despite doing what society told them to do. After learning many bitter and salty truths, most left the manosphere. They left because they realized nothing would be changing anytime soon. The divorce/family courts are as corrupt as ever, but still men are blamed for not wanting to get destroyed by them. Women spend their youth sleeping around, but the average guy gets blamed, despite probably being a virgin. If you are a man from Gen Y or Gen Z, you are not living a hedonistic lifestyle like Andrew Tate. Instead, you try to keep a low profile, because you are public enemy number 1.

    • Kevin: “After learning many bitter and salty truths, most left the manosphere. They left because they realized nothing would be changing anytime soon.”

      As the Playaz say, you can know women, or you can love women, but not both.

      PRO-TIP: Move immediately to get her pregnant, and then keep her pregnant & pushing out babies until menopause.

      Making a family is nothing but glorified animal husbandry, and a chad looks at a woman in the same way that a farmer looks at a tractor.

      She has one job, and one job only, and that job is to push out your progeny.

    • Z: “In a crisis, the first thing that happens is the men in charge kill the guys like Andrew Tate. It is addition by subtraction. Not having to worry about him leaves time for important matters.”

      I’m a little surprised that Z posted something quite as honest and forthright as what he just wrote there.

      Maybe I better leave it at that; further discussion of the phenomenon would quickly devolve into Fed Poasting.

      However, on the question of addition & subtraction, for quite a while now, PA, at “PA World and Times”, has posited a dichotomy of “Additive Game” versus “Subtractive Game”.

      PA’s theory is that effectively there is no such thing as “Additive Game”, in that there’s no way in hell a few negs & some kino are gonna turn a 5’6″ dorkish dweeb into a 6’4″ Chad Thundercock.

      However, what PA emphasizes [for guys who are never gonna be full blown Chad Thundercocks] is a Subtractive Game, wherein a fellow works on discarding all of his weaknesses, i.e. SUBTRACTING those weaknesses from his persona.

      No more staring at your feet.

      No more hemming & hawing.

      No more biting your fingernails.

      No more hesitancy.

      No more cowardice.

      And above all else, no more pretending that you’re something other than what you are.

      Brutal honesty with yourself concerning all of your correctable faults which need correcting.

  10. In related news, the pr0n star “legend” Ron Jeremy has been found unfit to stand trial for multiple sexual assaults on various women due to advanced dementia. If you have a strong stomach you can see the story on Yahoo, “the wages of sin are death” is pretty well spelled out with “the legend.”

    That being said, I do think there is something to the hate hate hate most White women have for most White men. If you accept Steven Pinker’s assertion of massive selection away from Alpha male outlaws to obedient beta males by every Lord, Count, Duke, Prince-Bishop, Elector, King, etc. from around 1000 AD onwards more or less (and more and less in certain areas — more in Germany, less in Sicily) then you would indeed have massive genetic filtering away from Alpha males to beta males. But I ask, where is the filtering to create female desire for beta males? Women are good at settling. But also good at nursing grudges and there is no fury like that of a woman (or women plural) for beta males failing to arouse her. This I think is a good explanation of the tragedy of the West. Sure there are other players, but the fundamental issue is that the West utterly depends on White beta males, who arouse not desire but disgust among their women and so has them constantly scheming to bring in the pool boy or suchlike.

    I will admit I have only a gut feeling, but reading various accounts of Medieval life, it is striking the fury women have often for their husbands, most of which amounts to a lack of desire stirred in them by their husbands. Our Ancestors were not unknowable space aliens, they mostly lived, felt, desired, and acted as we do, we just have better technology.

    • No offense Whiskey but why does everything cultural and natural sound like a convoluted science project with guys like you.

      • Indeed. I am reminded of Jim over at Jim’s Blog. He too is a comedian of sorts as are his fanboys. They talk of women as being little more than predictable instinctual, hormonal animals…and who knows? With the trailer park queens that may or may not be true. Jim and is fans are, of course, intellectual alphas on the internet but in real life? Most likely cellar dwelling soys and incels…

        I believe our host got it exactly right when he says these people will need to be killed by the tens of thousands in the post prosperity era. Just as they would make unfit mates for our women…they’d be even bigger disasters as fathers.

        • Whiskey and Jim aren’t much alike, but they do both proceed from an understanding that what matters most right now is who hates you.

          Girls in the trailer park are accustomed to being stuck living among their enemies, so they understand this too.

          • Uh, yeah, some chosenite sasquatch defiles shiksas, that’s entertainment!

            Somewhere they were laughing at you goy for paying to see that.

    • “the wages of sin are death”

      Everyone dies you dumb Christard. What about the boy who dies at age 7 from leukemia? Did he commit worse sins than Ron Jeremy?

      That is what your retard logic would imply.

      Now screw off with your retard fairy tales.

      • Come now, you really don’t think that adage compares in the two examples you cite do you? Jeremy’s *sins* (bad actions according to standard Christian believe) is causing a premature, and painful death in the one. In the other an unfortunate young boy’s life is cut short—but not necessarily stemming from his own sinful nature—but by a terrible disease, which certainly was in no way his own doing.

        Now, of course, the above can lead to adiscussion of why “bad things happen to good people”. But that’s another issue with other aspects of God and his relationship to the world.

        • Haha, now you’re on a first name basis with “Jeremy”?

          Chosenite sasquatch defiles shiksas, best to refer to it as “it”.

    • It’s white women in particular who are very difficult to handle for betas. Asian, latina, and even black women are MUCH more amenable and approachable to beta white dudes.

    • Did this illiterate, non media fed medieval woman even know that she was supposed to be aroused? With most of the men being landless serfs, how often did she encounter an “alpha”?

      Millions of decent people suffer from dementia every day. Or were they not really decent, and are all being punished for sin?

      P.S. Women’s “fury” tends to be about loss of or lack of status. Lack of arousal merely produces scorn.

      • “….medieval woman even know that she was supposed to be aroused?”

        Yeah, ‘aroused’ by a man that could put some meat in the pot, aka beta provider game for the PUA crowd.

    • Whiskey: “the wages of sin are death”

      Somebody got taken out back, behind the woodshed, and ordered to bone up on the New Testament.

      Fascinating that it’s Saul of Tarsus.

      Still waiting for juicy gossip on the Barnea/Cohen catfight.

  11. “When the crisis comes, look for mobs of middle-aged mothers reviving the ducking stool.”

    No children but I would make addition to this mob.

  12. The thing to remember about the manosphere is that it exists as almost a perfect mirror image of feminism, which is why each movement hates the other one with such passion. The feminist strong woman is a ridiculous phony self-presentation compared to a traditionally strong woman, just as an Andrew Tate is an insecure little boy hiding it with his clown version of a strong man.

    Both movements do their utmost to demoralize the youth from doing anything that would lead to a family and long term happiness, mainly via angry divorcees who want everyone else in the world to be as spiteful and miserable as themselves. Both preach a totally self-centered mindset that sucks itself into endless cycles of vacuous self-improvement. Both are led by obligate grifters.

    The only true difference is that women have those nice large floppy boobies that everyone loves, so they have far more leeway to be obnoxious than a five foot tall bald man raging at how his wife left him for Freduardo the pool boy.

    • Feminism came onto the scene a long time before the manosphere stuff did. Traditional masculinity was already out of favor before the manosphere became influential. Which is why it did. If traditional masculinity was something that produced good outcomes for men, they never would have looked to the manosphere.

      • Yeah but it’s the same problem as “Actually black people are the real racists”. Trying to copy the enemy doesn’t always work.

        • I’ve never seen the “philosophies” associated with the “manosphere” advocate anything that “works” or pretend that anything can work. More like they accept the fact that things don’t work, that there’s nothing you can do about that, and proceeding from that axiom tries to help you navigate clown world. The manosphere (what of it that I’ve seen anyway) is about saving yourself, not about saving the world.

          • Feminism promises the world for women if they ignore how the world works.

            The manosphere explains how the world works and the costs of ignoring it for the average man.

            These two projects are quite different ,Mr Ploppy.

    • “The thing to remember about the manosphere is that it exists as almost a perfect mirror image of feminism”

      This may be the *******, most ******** and **** — ******* comment I have ever read on this site. I strenuously disagree, and submit that it calls into question the judgment of the person who posted it in toto.

  13. Not a movie buff per se, but circa 2000 movie – Magnolia – has a character named TJ Mackey played by Tom Cruise. This Tate character seems to be something of the real life version of that character. Long movie, but quirky enough (especially the weather scene towards the end) to hold one’s interest.

    • Saying “Magnolia” is quirky, is like saying Mars has a harsh environment.

      It is an interesting ride. When you think about it, it’s rather dark.

  14. Pick-up artists/game CREATED the alt-right. Without the manosphere, there is no dissident right, there is no waking up, there is no Trump 2016. There is no Z-Man without Mystery, Style, and Roissy.

    Seeing the matrix on women/feminism inevitably lead to seeing the Matrix on EVERYTHING.

    For men of a certain age, the early/mid 2000s was an ENLIGHTENMENT. So many clueless “nice guy” young men spent their lives as incels placing women on pedestal and expecting to be paired off with a nice girl for marriage by a society that no longer existed. They raged not understanding why women would slut themselves out for a tiny minority of mostly scummy men. Game was the beginning. How to joke around, get a date, get laid, how to see the everything was a lie.

    All these “nice guys” were called jerks, chauvinists, and creeps when they were simply polite and wanted a nice girl to marry. Just like an ordinary white person is called a nazi if they notice the border is wide open. So these nice guys might as well get a clue and take the offensive where they can.

    Game is/was the correct reaction to an utterly broken and insane society; I will never blame men for it. Any and all blame go to the feminists and their masters. It’s the same as I refuse to have sympathy to a single mom who’s baby dada split or some whore who is abused in the porn industry. Those women CHOSE those men; so let them get what they chose without anyone bailing them out.

    • Pick-up artists/game CREATED the alt-right. Without the manosphere, there is no dissident right, there is no waking up, there is no Trump 2016. There is no Z-Man without Mystery, Style, and Roissy.

      This is nonsense on stilts. Ross Jeffries was peddling this material before anyone was on-line. I was around before any of the PUA guys could figure out how to get on-line.

      • What I mean is that a lot of people wouldn’t have found you (or Dalrock or Porter Kakistocracy or Spandrell, or Roosh, etc) without Strauss’ “The Game” and Chauteu Heartiste.

        • I don’t even remember how I stumbled onto Chateau Heartiste, or even Z’s site – maybe links to each other on their pages. I still follow CH (now king of all nads) on Gab. He’s a good spokesman and observer for the DR for sure and still sprinkles in words of wisdom on the female psyche here and there. He’s definitely a plus to have on our side.

          • I was turned on to both Heartiste and Z on Vox Populi, VD’s blog. Z has been a daily read for me. Great comment section too.

        • I found Z because I was in a chat group with a guy named Noah Palmer. He wrote the book, “Why sane people do crazy things”. He would post Z’s stuff in the chat. I read the first one I saw he posted and realized that these are my people. This guy writes very intelligently and articulately my thoughts on most things far better than I could describe them to someone.

          Also, once you experience the comment section here, you can’t go back to any other comment section. Even the AmRen comment section isn’t what this place is.

          I am hoping for Z’s site to become a forum type of site where there can be even more discourse amongst the members.

          • This is very true. The comment section here has become addicting—perhaps too addicting. Surely there is something better I should do with my time, but I’ve not found it. 😉

        • Many years ago, I visited the Wikipedia page for Bachelor, intrigued by this English term. Somebody had left a link to the Eternal Bachelor blog, which was the prehistory of the manosphere, way before Flossy.

          From blog to blog, I ended up being a regular visitor of the manosphere. Some years later, Ferdinand Bardamu ran a blog (In Mala Fide) with a periodical list of links to manosphere posts. He mixed everything: manosphere, alt-right, neoreaction… These communities ended up becoming a single community. Roissy mixed PUA and alt-right stuff. Most of these people have moved on from the manosphere topics since then, as I have done, but this is the history.

      • Why is it nonsense on stilts that it took a decade or two for the methodology of the PUAs to spread? That methodology is to observe the behavior of the objects and not be distracted or confused by what the objects say.

        I strongly dislike most PUAs and I’m annoyed by the fact that a lot of dissident politics, even the tired term “red pill,” came from their methodology. Roissey’s header was, “Where pretty lies die.” This methodology and attitude would spread to politics and soon we were angrily mocking civic nationalism.

        The king of that world right now is Rich Cooper and he irritates the hell out of me. Nonetheless, he is the man who said, “Women don’t care about your struggles. They wait at the finish line and flirt with the winners.” That sentence may have the highest truth per syllable ratio that I have ever read.

        As much as I wish it weren’t so, the PUA methodology and attitude strongly informed the rise of dissident politics in the mid 2010s.

        • The problem is that the PUA stuff never directed the men to channel that into settling down with a family. Precisely the opposite as they incessantly railed about how every single woman is going to use a divorce lawyer to steal all your money at the first opportunity. If all these guys had actually gotten married and had kids, the dissident movement would be in a much stronger position now.

          • Isn’t PUA based on the idea that your odds of being successful at settling down and raising a family are small? That the deck is stacked against you from the outset.

            However much that was true when PUA started, it’s certainly more true now

          • As to the odds of finding the “right girl” to marry and settle down with, I can’t say. You really only get one chance here, right? Afterwards you have been burned and as they say, “twice shy”. I avoided the first misstep and it’s now been 45 years on.

            I will say however, that the manosphere “advice” I read seems to tend on the side of not making good choices in ones relationship to the other sex. Maybe a little bit less on how to pick up women in clubs or off of Tinder and some more emphasis on finding good women in traditional venues of society, e.g., church, is in order. Men, and I admit this of myself, are often too shallow in their approach to the opposite sex.

          • Always get to know the mother before you do anything drastic. Blood will through, and in 25 years, your fiancee is going to be just like her mother.

            Never marry the daughter if you don’t love the mother.

        • That observational strategy has been around since at least 30 AD “by their fruits you shall know them.”

          • They didn’t invent the strategy. They applied it with a vengeance at a time when everyone else had forgotten it, including the people who would be inclined to quote the verse that you cited.

          • The King of Kings had a prostitute literally washing his feet, drying them off with her hair.

            Tate roll over!

          • Felix, the story you cite is one of redemption and forgiveness. It is one of the more powerful ones in the New Testament. Really has little to do with women and prostitution. The “King of Kings” here was teaching through example what was to become the defining aspect of Christianity.

            I suspect you know this and are just tweaking our nose a bit. 😉

          • Yeah, well, “by their fruit shall thee know them” is not about game either, is it?

      • My path to the DR started exactly as described here – trying to understand why I found myself divorced at 35 while society celebrated the woman who left me while I was in Iraq. I first started questioning what I had been told about dating/women/etc and that led me to start questioning many other assumptions, including politics. So while the “without CH there’d be no DR” might be hyperbole, it’s sentiment is closer to right than wrong. But … the PUA stuff us an empty vessel. It sure works, and it is a great example of people responding to incentives, but it comes at the cost of your soul. Still, it’s a great reminder that in Clown World, the incentive structure is completely upside down.

    • Men don’t sit around and blame people. They are willing to be alone in the woods for as long as it takes if that is what it takes until time and conditions are right to restore order.

      Tate is another manifestation of the depraved and degenerate hip-hop culture. Kickboxing replaced pant hooting over digital samples. A porn cam replaced a glock. It is the same thing. Tate is mild and he was raised middle class by a white woman. Still, he can’t comport himself. Nature is nature.

      There is another reason why Tate and his ilk will be dealt with in the crisis, he isn’t just a seed sewer, he openly taunted white men and bragged that he can cuck them at will. This is that special breed of bragging that comes from the hip hop culture. The days of The Trance of The End Zone Dance are coming to a close. In another time, when men didn’t abdicate their duty, any man who did that, especially if a foreign sub species, would not live another day.

      This is the most fundamental law of biological reality. The last 100 years have been a gross violation of ignoring it.

      The thing to focus on here is that men abdicated their duty. This is a gaping hole for us to step into. We need to devote our time and energy away from politics and into developing our young boys and women into men and women. We need to organize and be of service.

      I pick-up artists created the alt-right, then our first duty is to let that die. There is a huge gap and opportunity here. The gap lies between the manosphere with its barely-above-a-chimp strategy and Jordan Peterson and his obvious-guy-advice meets cuck-before-my-masters-pseudo-intellectual-out-of-my-lane inadequacy.

    • QUOTE: “Pick-up artists/game CREATED the alt-right. Without the manosphere, there is no dissident right, there is no waking up, there is no Trump 2016. There is no Z-Man without Mystery, Style, and Roissy.”

      That’s a pretty big statement. While the pickup guys had a big role in the understanding of biological wiring, there were plenty of elements outside of that scene that went into the alt-right movement.

      The alt-right was more about things like mass immigration, moving factories and jobs overseas, stupid foreign wars, along with who has been behind those policies, than it was about looking under the hood of human biology.

      As to there not being a Zblog without those pickup guys is utter nonsense. Click his “essential knowledge” link at the top here. Not much there I’d connect with Mystery, that’s for sure.

      (On a side note, I’m a big fan of King of all Nads on Gab. Insightful posts)

    • no. you are conflating completely separate phenomena, because they both involve “discovery”. there is some overlap between the two groups, sure, but that’s as far as it goes. the PUA drifted over to politics because it was losing audience. and the manosphere seems to be about avoiding women altogether!

    • Quoting the original Z-Man article above:

      “The woke feminists are also correct in pointing out that males living outside the feminist cultural norms are a direct threat to their existence. Modern bourgeois society depends upon males playing the traditional roles in key areas, while the ruling class free rides off of their efforts. It is a parasitic relationship that can only work if the males among the Dirt People play along with it.”

      Said another way, and quoting a Great Prophet:

      Alpha Fux, Beta Bux! (ZLZLOLZZOOLLZ, Da Great Books For Great Men (GBFM), PBUH)

      I toplined this reply because as much as Z is not a fan of the Manosphere and unambiguously has said so, we were a fan of his. Heartiste linked to Z frequently and whether he cares to admit it or not, that drove massive traffic here.

      I actually made a mental note on more than one occasion that should CH be deplatformed, which was becoming more & more likely as he veered from Manosphere into full on Third Rail Truths, Z’s blog would be an acceptable place to hang my hat based on the erudite and thoughtful conversation. The lulz were not quite as high, but life is all about trade-offs.

      Where I think Z’s point of contention may be valid is that the nascent alt-right / dissident right/ whatever was sort of co-developing at the same time. I remember some goofy and complex relationship graph showing all the “far right” (as defined by the Left) websites called the “Dark Enlightenment Map” circa about 2012-2014 or so.

      Mencius Moldbug kickstarted that to some degree too, but to say that the Manosphere did not strap a rocket booster to it is disingenuous at best. Would the dissident right exist w/o the Manosphere? Yes. Would it contain the high quality Grade A Sh-tlords like moi and many many other ‘refugees’ who fled from other deplatformed places? Nope.

      There is simply too much overlap between the things you pointed out in your very thoughtful original post and what the dissident right concerns itself with. It is basically the natural evolution of the process as you defined it. Once you start noticing you can’t stop noticing. All of it. Noticing, is now a high crime, but at the time was not so it was just too obvious not to see the rest of it past the egregious lies of feminism.

      And to close this little piece of prose, I will point out, that we’ve had over 130 replies as of this post and yet another unadulterated truth hasn’t been mentioned. Odd that… I’ll let my graphic (darkly) enlighten instead:

      https://i.imgur.com/trOJ63x.jpeg

      Any questions?

      • Peace Be Upon The Great Books For Men.

        ===============

        CH had a Gab yesterday with which I strongly agreed:

        https://gab.com/kingofallnads/posts/109657453189086140

        CH: ‘I think a lot of White men were caught off-guard by the rabid disloyalty and apparatchik viciousness of White women, and by how quickly White women have changed from “normal” to “raging psychocunt for the Regime”. Sure, discernment in everything, and many White men deserve blame for allowing their thirst, apathy, and supplicating cowardice to blind them to the red flags of Globohomo-captured White women, but tbf to the men the betrayals of the women were neither expected nor even conceptualized because it so defied common understanding of reality until recently.’

        https://gab.com/kingofallnads/posts/109657453189086140

        It’s a good thread, with lots of healthy cynicism.

        I saw another thread yesterday, somewhere – it might have been at /pol/ – where an anon was positing that White women have started to sense instinctually that the White homelands are being invaded, ergo White women are now moving into “Flip Heels” mode.

        As in “Men Invade, Women Invite” [by flipping on their heels, laying back on the mattress & spreading their legs for the invaders].

        This phrase in CH’s Gab exchange really stood out to me, because it so closely gibed with my own thinking:

        IT [the capricious untrustworthiness & disloyalty] SO DEFIED COMMON UNDERSTANDING OF REALITY UNTIL RECENTLY

        That’s the same sort of thing which bothered me so much about a poast of Dennis Roe here chez Z, on the weekend thread [“Random News Items”].

        Dennis Roe:

        THEY NEED WWIII TO HIDE THE FACT THEY JUST TRIED TO KILL ALL OF US.

        https://thezman.com/wordpress/?p=29016#comment-336627

        I sat there for two days [Friday & Saturday], staring at that sentence, and I couldn’t figure out whether Dennis Roe was being utterly facetious or deadly serious.

        Our personalities [as they evolved in the safety & comfort of Inner Hajnalia] are not particularly well adapted for navigating the surrealistic psycho-sociological sewer of Klownworld.

        We need to adapt, and we need to adapt quickly.

        Sadly though, the descriptions of the necessary adaptations would quickly descend into Fed Poasting territory.

        tl;dr… In Klownworld, desire is repulsion and repulsion is desire.

    • I agree that many in the manosphere eventually funneled over to the dissident right when they realized hooking up with random women is boring and unfulfilling. Until Andrew Tate became a thing, most of the manosphere scene was Arab or Indian (for not feather) looking to score with white girls.

      I think Tate’s appeal was that he was the PUA closest to ever walk the talk. Most PUA gurus look and act like the guys who got stuffed into lockers in school. Tate was different. I’m not defending him as I’ve long since disregarded the scene but compare him to Ross Jeffries or Tyler Durden; they are almost total opposites.

    • “Without the manosphere, there is no dissident right, there is no waking up, there is no Trump 2016. There is no Z-Man without Mystery, Style, and Roissy.”

      Not to play semantics games, but the dissident right has been a thing since at least an opposition of sorts formed against the New Deal and the Second World War, which predate no-fault divorce by about two generations. You may be correct if you are using “dissident right” interchangeably with “alt-right,” although the latter is sort of a modern variation that had some overlap with the former and piggybacked off it.

      Zman and similar thinkers are the heirs and in a few older instances the friends and associates of Sobran and Francis. Even if generous and loose with the definition, the Mano Sphere probably has no roots deeper than the late Nineties and the rise of Fathers’ Rights Movements, which were a good thing that also met fierce resistance.

    • What is happening here is that the PUAs and dissident-right both share the same reality.

      They’re not wrong in their observations, and they exist in actual reality. The problem is that many of them are a bunch of total degenerates. They’re not serious people.

  15. All of the weirdness, man hating and sexual degeneracy we generally associate with “2nd Wave Feminism” were present in the suffragettes and even before. Feminism has always been cancer.

    There is a woman called Janice Fiamengo who has a youtube channel with a man named Steve Brule’ who does short videos highlighting many of these problems. Well worth checking out.

    Andrew Tate is indeed a clown. He’s also a mulatto.

      • The channel is called studio B. Here is a video on anti-whiteness by Janice.

        /watch?v=dm7lvNRlQHQ

    • The mulatto distinction seems to go unnoticed a lot. The man’s visage really has strong pimp vibes.

      • Seriously, no one needs to ‘teach’ dusky folk like this Tate how to ‘treat women like prostitutes…’

        Go back to Margaret Mead, and a certain interaction males and females allegedly had in the bushes by the side of the path. Any males and any females. Any time. Say, like we shake hands.

        I am suspicious of the ‘man-o’ types that go hard at never marrying or having children. They seem to be bookends to the Feminists — in terms of serving a depopulation, anti-Christian agenda. Like pornography, made flesh.

        Who cares what their rationales are. One Man-o guy pitches replacing women with hand lotion. Divorced, ex-military. The Cooper guy, also divorced. Drives around in an expensive car up in Maple Syrup Lockdownville.

        The Feminists, they want your wives and daughters to avoid to avoid serving ‘the patriarchy’, while serving the corporate masters, cubicle/HR job good, rip the fetus out of your own body so you can stay in the rat race. Like a rat.

        So in the end, these feral types want to rub flesh like with one another, create no life. No relationships beyond transactional. Worship money.

        Now whom does it sound like their COLLECTIVE masters may be?

        • Seriously, no one needs to ‘teach’ dusky folk like this Tate how to ‘treat women like prostitutes…’

          We have quite a pimp problem in our own ranks. A recurring gripe is dusky girls winning beauty pageants in white countries, and “oh, noes, they’re replacing white wommens.”

          If you are pro-beauty pageants, you’re part of the problem: beauty pageantry is prostitution, ersatz slave auctions where fat Jews can gloat over white sluts dancing naked for the price of a cheeseburger.

          Public decency laws need to be rolled back to before cheesecake: no shoulders, no knees, no cleavage or you’re a Commie subversive and must go to jail.

          • Yeah, I suspect we’ve taken individual liberty and freedom waaay too far in this society. We have taking such so far, we (and the West in general) are now a freak show. Another Z-man recurring theme.

  16. Seems to asking the age old question: what do women want?
    When they figure it out, are able to articulate it, and then actually live according to what they say – then let me know.

    • Start with an alpha man who is aloof and untamed, a wild stallion roaming the plains.

      The woman loves using her love and feminine charm to tame said man, IE the taming in and of itself.

      Once tamed, his value is lessened.

      • Antoine de Saint-Exupery likened a man to a cliff and a woman to a wave. The wave throws itself at the cliff, frothing and booming, beckoning “Come down to me! Be with me”

        As long as the cliff remains, the wave will never stop frothing and beckoning, but gradually, the cliff is undermined by the wave and falls into the sea.

        Now the wave has nothing to break against, no froth nor boom. and it will go in search of another cliff.

        • Saint-Ex reference for the win, he’s pretty much forgotten now but he had a remarkable life.

    • “Real” women want a man who handles his business like a man. He stays busy, maintains the technical aspects of the home, keeps in shape due to this activity, gives her a good seeing-to at least two times a week, and acts like a man.

      • No. Women don’t Trust each other. Hate is secondary. Women stab each other in the back, heavy intra-female competition (does that mean for fat women?), play head games and use shame to make women submit to their herd. Man, did I burn out on that. That’s why I dropped working with or for other women. Moved to working in technical fields (water treatment/distribution) with mostly men, grew up and enjoyed the men and learned so much from generous, knowledgeable men. Some women truly like men. Few.

    • “Seems to asking the age old question: what do women want?”

      From observations, I’d posit three things:

      1) Social Dominance, especially of other women
      2) Attention. Good (from the “right” people) preferred, other types will be taken
      3) Plausible Deniability

      They all work in concert. Every gal wants to be the Queen Bee, or at least higher up the social hierarchy than she is. If she can snag a man of higher status or stature than herself and her peers husbands or boyfriends, that’d work too.

      If she gets more attention (especially from guys she WANTS attention from) that can raise her in the social hierarchy too.

      Plausible deniability is if she does something that risks social dominance or rank she has a ready made excuse to offer up to save her skin (“I wasn’t flirting with YOU”, “I love you but I’m not IN LOVE with you”, “I’m not that kind of a girl (unless you’re high status enough that I WILL be that kind of a girl for you), etc.)

      Kick it around but that’s my theory and I’m stickin’ to it.

  17. I’m reminded of something a friend once told me. He said the black thug is a product of the black single mom— a feminine caricature of masculinity. Basically an Amazon.

    Re: Tate, whites becoming blacks.

    Don’t get me wrong, I have a reputation as a woman-hater, but the PUA thing has never appealed to me. As for the reputation, I maintain that there has to be a reaction. You can’t reason with a harpy any more than you can with a bully. Thankfully, you don’t have to hit women. Being an ‘asshole’ and not backing away is good enough in my experience. I suspect that’s where the words-are-violence thing comes from.

    • It has long been stated that American black men are feminine in nature. Mother centered and vain. Add to that the intellectual maturity of a fourteen year old.

    • “You don’t have to hit women”
      Sean Connery would disagree. Please, if you never have seen it, check out “Sean Connery and Barbara Walters.” She didn’t see that answer coming!

      • Connery was right. Sometimes women get so hysterical even letting them have the last word is not enough for them. That’s when it’s proper for the SLAP. Rational patriarchy asserting itself through the truth of superior force. Good for the man, good for the woman.

        • This is why I always say, search, “Victorian-era cures for female hysteria.”

          They knew the score back then.

      • I’ve never had to, wouldn’t ever want to, but once or twice I had to break something to snap her out of it.

  18. Tate’s penchant for display items and cartoonish misogyny have not only made him famous, but it has also put the spotlight on the internet manosphere.

    It probably didn’t hurt him that Tucker Carlson had him on his show, billing him a manosphere icon. Nothing spells edgy dissident as being invited onto Fox.

    • I’d read his posts on Gab and was later shocked that he actually existed as his posts were so cartoonish that I thought it was some humorous clown’s idea of a fun LARP (not quite as funny when it’s real).

  19. Well, there’s a good reason that the Marquis de Sade features so prominently in Camus’ classic “The Rebel”. Tate is really the archetype for the modern male rebel. However, the next stop on that train is Nihilism, as Camus observed so well.

    The sex part is just a feature of the Nihilism and is of course an essentially self-destructive impulse. He mocks Creation while making a mockery of procreation. It’s just sad. Destroying yourself is a weird way to demonstrate the absurdity of feminism.

  20. We’re all supposed to embrace boundless hedonism, until some schoolmarmish woman objects — at which point it is demanded we veer into abject Victorianism. Quite a schizophrenic culture.

    As Zman suggests in different words, both feminism and pick-up artistry are luxury items of a society that has grown exceedingly fat and decadent. In a survival scenario, the Andrew Tates will be run out of the community on a rail and the feminists will soon learn to keep their mouths shut. One thing prosperity buys us is a lot of gratuitous absurdity that we could not afford under less favorable conditions. An upside of a collapse is that it will force some measure of sanity to return.

    • Amen and Amen-I have noticed in almost every instance of dire emergency, we revert to our traditional roles, men go out to confront and rescue, women huddle together and comfort.

      • Exactly. It’s no coincidence that the militaries of the West are at their lowest ebb at a time when women are filling their ranks. Every image I see online about British infantry has a woman in the foreground. As if a woman can hump 100 pounds on her back and lead men into combat.

    • Wkathman: Excellent summation. No excuses for something like Andrew Tate, but just as with the “Me too” movement, the women ‘victims’ deserve just as much scorn, if not more so. Passage from a book I was just reading – written by a woman – about modern women as viewed by a hedonistic pick-up artist man (From the Green Fields super-soldier serum turned zombie world series by Adrianne Lecter):

      “I don’t hate women. Actually, I’m a huge admirer of the female form. I’m also not as much of a misogynist asshole as I love to pretend to be, no thanks to virtually all the women I’ve encountered in my life. . . a lot of my female peers growing up, only intent on outshining the competition and lying through their teeth constantly.”

      “It had been women exclusively who’d set me up and treated me like a prince . . . They did virtually everything to be my toothpaste-commercial-smile arm candy because societal status mattered to them more than not degrading themselves. In college, a few also stuck around because I knew how to use my dick . . . At work, everyone I was regularly dealing with who had tits and ovaries was constantly out to shove one in my face in hopes of me fertilizing the other . . . “

    • “We’re all supposed to embrace boundless hedonism, until some schoolmarmish woman objects — at which point it is demanded we veer into abject Victorianism. Quite a schizophrenic culture.”

      Great comment. That description encapsulates women, feminist and otherwise, quite well. A feminist culture by its very nature is a schizophrenic culture.

    • “We’re all supposed to embrace boundless hedonism, until some schoolmarmish woman objects — at which point it is demanded we veer into abject Victorianism. Quite a schizophrenic culture.”

      Great observation, yet note which sex takes the approach “I have a problem with something therefore nobody can have it/do it”.

      See alcohol, tobacco, guns, now internal combustion engines, COVID masking, etc.

      • mmack: No doubt that women make up a significant majority of those who thrive on killing other people’s fun. Still, don’t shortchange all the hyper-feminized men of today who demonstrate the same party-pooper tendencies. Masculinity is in woefully short supply these days.

    • “We’re all supposed to embrace boundless hedonism, until some schoolmarmish woman objects”

      Yeah, funny how the official doctrine of our society is that everybody is supposed to be able to fuck everyone else all the time without consequence or responsibility… but if you actually try to do it, you get accused of sexual harassment.

      • The main difference between harassment and flirting is whether or not she finds you attractive

    • “gratuitous absurdity”

      Ah yes, i’d like to return this to the kitchen, its not what i ordered. Also i don’t want “store credit” i want my cash back 😉

  21. The wars of the 19th and 20th Centuries resulted in the mass slaughter of alpha males all across Europe, and this fundamentally altered the natural evolution of our species in this region. Those chickens have now come home to roost and the West is dominated by butch females and a plague of beta males; which is a recipe for disaster. And you cannot vote your way out of this kind of DNA contagion.

    And this is why colony collapse is the only road to redemption. The process must be reversed and fitness selection must return to the ancestral purpose of favoring competent assertive males and fecund subservient females. And in order for this occur, we must “fight” for this change and be relentless in its pursuit.

    Once upon a time, all LEO organizations selected for levelheaded alphas who, in essence, became the enforcers of cultural/societal norms. The elites still hope to use this resource to protect the Citadel, but they (LEOs) ain’t all alphas anymore and they are neutralized by large scale chaos and riots. But they are still effective against the oddball miscreant (Tate and his ilk). But what happens when the Tates number in the thousands or tens of thousands? And what if the smart ones are camouflaged by anonymity and fog?

    • What happens when the Tates and worse are given preference and promotion in the military, and at the same time the better men, in this case actual men, are purged?

      We are going to find out.

      • The Ukrainian military command is sacrificing (genociding) its most societally competent males (husbands and fathers) as cannon fodder in the meatgrinder of the Eastern Front. I think part of the reason they are doing this is because they want them dead rather than return to KIev at the end of the war and get revenge on the assholes that did this.

        • Hmm. At some point, TPTB nees to lose bigger rather than cut losses, just to save their own skin. Interesting principle-agent problem.

  22. Andrew Tate is a useful man, not a good man. He should be defended solely on the basis that he pushes young men towards our cause. For instance, there’s a great clip of him urging men to stay away from the military because there’s no point going and risking your life in Iraq if some Iraqi can just migrate over the border and blow himself up in a synagogue.

    If he really is a sex trafficker, it’s a good thing the Right isn’t closely associated with him. Fortunately, I don’t think he’s guilty of any crime.

    • Had to downvote you, Tate shouldn’t be defended. He has no redeeming qualities and deserves more punishment than he will ever get on this earth. I refuse to defend a half-jogger who is the very definition of n***** rich. That was one of the two worst insults in the pre-integration South. It’s a shame it has fallen out of favor because it’s so appropriate to modern GAE.

  23. Spectacular, Z. It nicely bolsters my own contention that if you do something wrongful and harmful to one gender, it inevitably hurts them both.

    But – we have to remember some things and have some modicum of sympathy for our women. Consider the birth of feminism – it did not occur in a vacuum. (Or maybe it DID, depending on your assessment of bad puns): electricity literally made women obsolete in the 50’s. Their work was done away with in a couple years. Dish washers, electric stoves, vacuum cleaners, refridgerators – in the space of a decade, women went from being overloaded with work to having none at all. With nothing to do, they drank. Or slept around, or got into trouble trying to find purpose. It drove them around the bend just as it drives young men around the bend today. Another way to look at feminists and pick up artists is as victims. They seek meaning, purpose and identity… and have failed spectacularly.

    The early manosphere has carries the seeds of our salvation: it’s early focus was on independence, self improvement both physically and mentally, stoicism and promotion of the heavenly virtues of the manly arts. Unfortunately sects broke off that to produce the pickup artists that embrace pretty much all the deadly sins just as feminism does.The damage caused by this will never be repaired. Think of all the kids raised by queers, race whores, and soon- the trannies and pedos. When those kids come of age – that is when the wheels will come off.

    • > Their work was done away with in a couple years. Dish washers, electric stoves, vacuum cleaners, refridgerators – in the space of a decade, women went from being overloaded with work to having none at all.

      The biggest change was children being sent to school for nine months between the ages of 5-18.

      That being said, there is prime opportunity for a sort of renaissance for women staying home in terms of localism and division of labor. As your average food becomes slop, clothing becomes all degenerate, and standard education becomes useless, there’s a need for stay at home moms who can pool their resources to can food, hem and sow nice clothing, teach children, plan events, etc. etc.

      There’s no reason in the age of the internet there can’t be clusters of families that are essentially autonomous for day-to-day needs. It might not show up on GDP numbers, but it will in quality of life standards.

      • Just so, Chet. Around here, home schooling is going nuts. The local ‘professional public educators’ are running scared.
        It is truly good to see. We are seeing more young people scoping out our little chapel in the country too. They are seeking something better and many stay. Light is at the end of the tunnel.

        • “Just so, Chet. Around here, home schooling is going nuts…”

          I live near a blue shitlibopolis and as of late, more and more people echo, “you can’t send your kids to public schools, you have to home school..”

          They are correct, and my wife and I feel the same way and have for a while. Public school = child abuse.

        • Agreed. Homeschooling is even booming in many parts of Europe, even though it’s been banned by France and Germany. The best way to defeat the globalists is not to fight state elections, but to build alternatives from the ground up. Who would have thought that our cultural heroes and role models would be the Amish?

      • Chet: Your comment echoed what I was thinking. Despite labor-saving devices, there was plenty for women to do still re cooking and cleaning. The biggest change and vacuum in their lives was the removal of children from the home to mass indoctrination and ‘government’ care.

      • Chet, you’re on to something—child rearing. All the above comments regarding women as “obsolete” or having nothing to do given modern technology fail to appreciate this inalienable aspect of feminine behavior/biology.

        Unfortunately males are as responsible for this great failure in this division of labor as much—or more—than the odious philosophy of Feminism. Single males welcomed “free” sex and husbands quickly learned to enjoy the aspect of a second source of household income from an employed spouse.

        Free sex relieves/delays the male’s responsibility to grow up and provide security for a female in which she can breed and raise children. The female who has multiple sex partners soon fails to bond with any male in a Natural and lasting manner. A wife working outside the home, deprives her of the time and effort needed to raise and nurture children. The result inevitably are families with less children and poorer results. And here we are today….

  24. In the first season of “The Walking Dead” (after which it got boring), there’s a scene where the women are washing clothes by hand. They gripe something like, “I used to be a head of HR. You used to be a university prof. Now we’re reduced to women’s work while the men go out and kill zombies.” Zombies are fake. But that’s our future.

  25. I’ve often quipped that PUA should stand for Pussy Usurps All. Here’s to hoping that more of them wander into “Book of Ecclesiastes” territory like Roosh did.

    • Roosh has gone a bit overboard in his puritanism. It’s akin to the alcoholic who abandons booze and ends up a rabid teetotaler. I like Roosh and believe he’s on a better track now than he was originally, yet much of his current material suggests that he’s taking life too seriously and needs to chill out some. There’s a spergy aspect to it. One gets the impression that he suffers from a profound sense of alienation. While that’s certainly not uncommon these days, a man should do his best to overcome it. Sometimes Roosh seems to be succumbing to it.

      • I used to post regularly on his forum, it was really something to see when he found Jesus. Talking about sex and cursing were banned, and a cadre of religious nuts quickly dominated every thread. The forum itself had largely drifted from pussy over to dissident politics already, but people dropped off from the loss of having any liberty to voice a dissenting opinion of any kind.

        It does show that religious people can be just as bad as SJWs when they want to be.

    • RooshV is NOT a good example of where you want people to end up. He is an absolutist and that is bad in any regard.

      He went ‘all-in’ on being an utter manwhore, and literally wrote the book (several in fact) on it. Once he had his “Rode to Damascus” moment largely precipitated by the untimely death of his kid sister from cancer then he took that same intensity & absolutism and inverted it completely. Now he is a monastic and ascetic who has completely retreated from the world & society.

      Is that a better life than being a PUA douche? Probably, but not by much. My point is that The Middle Path™ tends to be the right one in most cases at most times. Those absurdly wide swings to extremes say much about someone’s personality, Roosh is a case study on that.

      He is literally anti-fun now. You shouldn’t laugh at secular TV shows even if they are funny. You shouldn’t enjoy yourself too much because God will be offended if you do. I could go on & on but it sounds like a miserable life to me.

      To quote Mr. Joel, the Heeb Pretending to be an Italian- “I’d rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints, the sinners are much more fun.”

      • Apex Predator: I may be reaching here, but I wonder if Roosh’s genetic background (half Iranian/half Armenian if I recall) has contributed to that careening from one absolute to another. Granted, I knew a woman in college – of complete White AngloSaxon heritage – who did the same. But I think that perhaps coming from and being raised in a non-White Western culture and then being offered the panoply of choices offered by license disguised as freedumb leads to excess. Sort of like the Amish who leave their faith after Rumspringa.

      • It brings to mind the mid-20th century Catholic theologian, Thomas Merton. If you read his autobiography, The Seven Storey Mountain, written just after he’d entered a Trappist monastery in Kentucky in the 1940’s, you come away believing he was a man who had journeyed from the hedonistic, atheistic left of the 1930’s to a religiously contemplative life of peace, and that he was content to live out his days in blissful silence.

        Instead, he became a prolific writer, battled with his abbots, fell in love with a nurse, and became enraptured with Eastern religion and the hippie-driven peace movement. In his nature was a need to be driven by new stimulations and obsessions.

        Some people are like that, and I wouldn’t be surprised to read one day that Roosh had a new cause of a religious nature.

  26. Feminism went completely off the rails when normal, mainstream women could no longer answer things like:

    “Can you name five positive aspects/traits of masculinity? Unique to men and men alone?”

    “How do mothers and women encourage young girls to prepare to be excellent wives?”

    “Can you name 5 negative traits of femininity that women always struggle with, and what are the best ways to do so?”

    And so on. Tate exists because every possible duty and virtue men aspire to are mocked; literally every bad behavior women exhibit is celebrated as a virtue or an unstoppable consequence of things outside their agency or control. Why not shrug ones shoulders and accept hedonism in such a place.

    Maybe the extreme comfort and ease we live in made such degeneracy inevitable.

  27. After Katrina, I read about a group of Australian tourists who were in the Superdome for shelter. We all know of the mayhem that happened in there. This group, the girls sat in the middle of a circle, and the men stood on the outside of the circle keeping watch. None of these women, to paraphrase the man relating the events, ‘seemed interested in playing boss’.

    • This is a large part of why I pray daily for AWFL (affluent white female leftists) who are a VERY large part of the engine that drives the on-going slow motion collapse of society, to get in extremely close proximity to their favored pets.

      Nothing will disabuse you of your kumbaya ‘all people are the same’ horsesh-t as a few weeks around feral n-ggers. It is shockingly educational, if you survive. Nothing would solve our problems faster than these utter retards having direct and painful feedback related to their consequences of their voting, beliefs, and actions.

      • Apex: Very much regret that I have to disagree. We’ve seen too many past instances where they (or their husbands) rush to excuse and forgive whoever raped or savaged them or murdered their children, all in the name of holy diversity (often posturing as Christianity). I don’t think even direct engulfment by said diversity would disabuse them, because they’re always focused solely on what they feel and their own perceived social standing.

        • Touché!

          Very cogent counterpoint, totally (and sadly) true. However, my glass half full self still says that, on the balance, it would be better to expose them.

          Some serious true believers will die smiling as their feral pets open their throats thinking “at least I wasn’t rayciss!” but I don’t think that is the majority.

          There is an astonishing amount of evidence though for what you are saying some nationally famous (Molly Tibbits and family) some anecdotally so. I remember seeing a dumb lefty girl in DC who was literally punched in the face in broad daylight at a street corner and knocked off her bike. The Vibrant Pet® hit her so hard she only sort of remembered what happened but others saw it.

          When interviewed soon after, still showing some significant damage to her face, the comment was “he was probably really desperate and really needed it”.

          There is no redemption for a creature like that, so I still posit that having their pets permanently maim or snuff them is a better outcome then just letting them flit around in pure ignorance to poison other minds.

        • I consider this bizarre manifestation/demonstration of warped Christian morality to be one of the most, (if not the most), twisted and aberrant trends in our twisted, demented, and degenerate society. It’s much worse than the virtue signalling like kneeling, masking, yard signs, etc., which are just the coward’s way of fitting into the group and deflecting any potential criticism. This is publically absolving someone who has killed,raped or injured your child. Nobody, including the perpetrator of the outrage, expects you to do this. In fact, they have contempt for you if you do. Is this what the Christian churches are now preaching? It goes against the laws of nature and is therefore evil. I haven’t been to church in a number of years, but if I went and heard this from the pulpit, I would walk out. It’s a horrifying and nauseating spectacle.

          • Christian churches are run mostly by women. I read a puff piece about the new female head of our church here in Europe. It could have been about any left-wing NGO. All the usual blather about equity, diversity, etc. Nothing whatsoever about the teachings of Jesus – especially the dread word “sin”. As one might guess, the numbers of people still attending the national protestant church are fewer and fewer each year. Women screw up any organisation that used to be a traditional preserve of men: police, military, firefighting, churches.

      • You can see this in real time in the country that used to be Sweden. The wahmen there have traditionally responded by glueing themselves to runways to prevent their once and future rapists’ deportations. Make it make sense.

    • How observant. I can think of any number of herd animals that do the same thing in the wild. Has “mankind” transcended their basic biological roots? I don’t think so.

  28. “Free to indulge in their worst instincts, a bourgeois ruling class will do their worst and then seek to normalize it among the people over whom the rule.”

    I remember some years back reading Charles Murray’s Coming Apart. It showed very clearly that white society starting breaking down in the late 1960s as traditional norms were thrown first by upper middle class and then by the working class.

    However, what was interesting was that the upper middle class started to change direction in the late 1970s and 1980s. The upper middle class could see what divorce and no community involvement were doing to their lives and neighborhoods, so they started bringing back those norms. By the 2000s, the lives of the upper middle class weren’t that different in terms of divorce, rates of going to church, community involvement, out of wedlock births, etc., than they were in 19060.

    But the working class never got the message and completely collapsed.

    Granted, this is anecdotal, but outside of a few cranks, I don’t see much feminism among my kids friends. Sure, they spout the usual propaganda, but the vast majority of these teenage girls want to get married and have a family. Yes, they feel the need to go to college and get a job, but they seem just fine not working if they can afford it.

    I’d definitely say that the kids’ moms are much more into feminism than their kids. Feminism isn’t natural. It’s hard to keep women believing that a job is more satisfying than a family.

    • I live on one side of a big street – the working class side. The other side is ruling class, closer to the river. It’s like living in an ’80s John Hughes high school. I walk the dog on the ruling class side of the street for obvious reasons.

      Anyway. Working class side has Pride flags, but no Ukraine flags. Pink-haired girls and women running households. Ruling class side has Pride flags _and_ Ukrainian flags, but no pink hair and no women running households. Lots of women out with the new baby walking around.

    • The primary difference between the upper middle and working classes during that time frame was economic pressure. Working class jobs were targeted successfully for destruction and lives were subsequently destroyed. The upper class also suffered a few hits but they were nowhere near as severe and they eventually recovered. As an aside, economic deindustrialization was one of the cruelest and frankly evil things ever done to a large segment of society.

      I see two possibilities now. The first is that the upper middle class begins to suffer greater and greater economic pressure and starts to fray. The second is there is some sort of economic revival that lifts up those at the bottom as well as those above them. I suspect it will be the former but I’ve read several economists who claim it will be the former. My guess is they have a vested interest in selling snake oil.

      Murray was attempting to explain reality to those in his social circles. He more likely addicted lots of his peeps to hopium. There almost is no way the Regime does not have the White Upper Middle Class dead in its sights.

    • My observation is that feminism and “liberation” has always been an affectation of the educated elites and was imposed upon the working classes at great cost.

      It’s one thing to be a feminist who slept with thirty guys as an undergrad, and then became a prim monogamous mommy sending her fertility-treatment children she birthed at age 40 to private school after making partner in the law firm and marrying a Jewish orthodontist.

      It’s quite another thing to have slept with thirty guys if you’re living in trailer park and working at Walmart for $12 an hour while the bastard children you’ve spawned with three different men run wild and most of your free time is spent in Family Court.

    • Prior to 1940 a girl of 12 would have been required to have at least a working knowledge of how to bake bread, prepare a simple meal, wash clothes, sew on buttons and patches, iron clothing, mop and sweep floors, mind a baby, and process garden vegetables. From 1940 to about 1970, there were still home ec classes in high school that required girls to learn to sew a dress, plan, prepare and serve a meal using correct china and appropriate flatware (have you noticed that people tend to eat more with their hands?), learn basic hygiene practices, learn manners, and manage household accounts and budgets. After 1970 which is about when feminism reared its head it all went to heck. I do think however that some males got a little uppity and if they had been just a leetle more devoted to keeping the ladies happy we might have avoided this altogether. There were some lecherous bosses and the pay scale was totally skewed and some men simply didn’t want to be good husbands and fathers. Blame on both sides I guess, was anything really learned by either side? If we reverted to an earlier time scenario, what would you do differently?

  29. Even when Chateau Heartiste was new and the bloom wasn’t quite off the rose, I knew being a cocksman was a dead end. Counting sexual coup (rather than sowing and tending a seed) is a recipe for reaping the whirlwind. Thinking sex is a solution or end in itself for some kind of transcendence is only excusable when you’re very young and a virgin and have built it up to be something more than it is. Men who fashion their identity around their sexual prowess always end up as bathetic cautionary tales, no matter their wealth or status. Think of the old gross reptilian Hugh Hefner in his smoking jacket, swimming in his petri dish of a grotto, or Jeff Epstein dead in his jail cell.

    An organism’s main responsibility is to reproduce. I say this, as someone, like Zman or Pat Buchanan, who has dropped the ball and knows it by not having kids of his own. Being fruitful and multiplying is not only what every non-nihilistic creed counsels, it’s science: cellular senescence begins in puberty. Your body basically figures out at that point that since you can make copies of yourself, you yourself are a redundancy and can begin dying. Men have a longer window than women to make it happen, but you don’t want to waste that time trying to impress idiots.

    • Ramsey Paul called it early that the guys like Chateau Heartiste would move from picking up women to being dissident right. Once you realize that feminism is a joke, you realize that you’re being lied to about everything.

      Also, didn’t Roosh (or however you spell his name) become a born again Christian or something like that? He came to the same realize that you talk about.

      • Roosh is Orthodox, with an intense eastern-style beard and everything. He, also, is very much on the dissident right, it seems to me. Story as old as Augustine.

        • Yes he’s based Orthodox. Contributes to Patristic Faith Ministries with a bunch of other based Ortho bros.

        • I wish he’d just gotten married, settled down and had some kids. The strongest act of rebellion there is in today’s society.

      • I remember reading Roosh’s blog after he’d been a pickup artist for several years, and you could really feel the shift in his thinking/mood coming through. He was sleeping with as many women as he wanted but it was destroying his soul. He couldn’t stand to be anywhere outside of eastern Europe for very long; he proclaimed the women there to be far more feminine than anywhere western. Even there you could feel his self-loathing growing as he was increasingly just going through the motions of bedding women.

        At that time, he couldn’t make that final leap to understand that he wasn’t satisfying his biological desire to form a strong pair bond with one of those women and actually procreate. He was only satisfying his lizard-brain.

        Glad he finally reached some kind of resolution.

    • > Thinking sex is a solution or end in itself for some kind of transcendence is only excusable when you’re very young and a virgin and have built it up to be something more than it is.

      The men who never get over this stage will eventually gravitate to more and more disgusting acts. Everyone probably has had an experience talking to a dirty old man who openly fantasizes about doing grossly illegal and depraved acts. On the other end, there’s no doubt our elites have networks to sate their increasingly vile appetites, hence why there are people like Epstein around to make it happen.

    • Mozart wrote an opera about the Andrew Tate of his time. It was “Don Giovanni.”

      • I forget the exact Bukowski quote, but it’s something like: “It may be true that Casanova bedded a thousand women in his day. But it’s certainly just as true that I could spit on his grave today without thinking twice.” Sex with reproduction is the closest thing to eternity/cheating death our species has. Sex for its own sake may be the most ephemeral, transitory. Those who’ve tried to freeze a moment—using sex as “rocket fuel” as Colin Wilson once put it—basically blow themselves up. Aleister Crowley’s “sex magick,” the “free love” of the hippies. It’s like fire. You respect it or it burns you, literally in the case of some STDs.

    • Roissey, later Chateau Heartiste due to being doxxed, had one of the instructive evolutions that I have ever witnessed.

      From hedonistic, present-oriented cocksman to hardcore white nationalist. A lesson for us all.

      • One other thing I find fascinating and it may be merely a coincidence but two of the biggest early progenitors of the Manosphere where literally my neighbors.

        Roissy (Heartiste) and Roosh are geographically quite proximate to me in the DC area. I feel like that is not a coincidence because the turbo b-tch mode here went into high gear in the early 00s because everyone who wanted to be someone was flooding into DC.

        Try hard undergrad chicks with their “poli sci” degrees, lawyers, and general social climbers all started to appear in larger and larger numbers. NYC was more of the place for that in prior decades but 9/11 changed the calculus quite a bit as money started to flow massively into this Leviathan Government we’ve spent the last 20 years building.

        Women ALWAYS want to be in the middle of the herd and bet the safe horse so they started clamoring for DC based work. The salaries and “richest counties in the US” charts & graphs bear out m theory nicely.

        I feel like we were on the front lines of this thing and though I never started my own blog, but easily could have, I was a heavy contributor and frequent poster at CH and to a lesser extent the RooshV forum.

    • Pat’s wife Shelley was unable to conceive — likely as a result of a childhood illness — and Pat, as a Catholic, wasn’t about to divorce her.

      I’ve heard this put-down of Pat before and it’s a shame. He never shared anything about this (I worked for Pat in the 1990s) with anyone, but he’s a man of faith, and he accepted it as God’s will 50 years ago.

    • “ An organism’s main responsibility is to reproduce. ”

      Not completely correct. An organism must reproduce and do whatever it takes to see that its offspring successfully reproduce! This is not trivial. In the example you respond to, you get “step one” correct, but if “step two” is missing…well, then you only have delayed extinction a generation.

      I’m thinking we have both problems besetting us.

  30. Feminism has pretty much been a disaster across the board – life has just been too easy since the end of WWII. I don’t know what kind of tough times it’ll take to reverse the mess or at least put us on a track to reverse it, but it probably won’t be pretty and I doubt I’ll be around to witness it. Traditional roles and the desire to live by and perpetuate them needs become the norm again.

  31. “In a crisis, the first thing that happens is the men in charge kill the guys like Andrew Tate.”

    I have lived more than half my life waiting for this event. I may be too feeble to do much more than wave a salute with my walking cane when the time comes, but I do want to see the day arrive.

  32. I live in the heart of wokedom where Boomer and Gen X feminists have done very well and will likely pay little or no price for their conceit and good fortune. The next generation — in their teens and twenties — are the non-binaries. You might call them the trans-normies. I’d like Z to opine further on this transition as, at least around here, it’s widespread and growing.

  33. The old manosphere was a powerful gateway to the dissident realm, where angry men with weak to nonexistent father figures gave up on mainstream advice for attractive women. They found out the advice of expressing your feelings, being vulnerable, deferring to the lady, ask explicitly asking permission was only a gateway to bitter disappointment. It’s no coincidence the change Heartiste made in his blog before being thrown into the void.

    The reason why Tate is even a thing is because mainstream dating coaches keep doubling down on this terrible advice, and encourage awful behavior in women. That and he’s very funny. And no, it’s not that men are repulsed by strong, independent women, because the women who think themselves such are neither, they’re just annoying and destructive.

    One of the more amusing things happening is women trying to shame early 30’s men for dating women who are in the 18-23 range, going as far as calling what was close to the norm throughout history as predatory. As more and more women reach middle age, barren and unmarried, they’re going to be prey to men in their 50’s or 60’s who stay reasonably in shape to take their pick of the post-wall pack. Civilization disaster, sure, but nothing we can do to stop the train anymore.

    • Aristotle wrote that the ideal age for marriage was 36 for men, 18 for women.

      He also said “the male is by nature superior, the female inferior.”

      • In his time probably true. In modern times, perhaps too late in years. We can also substitute for age accomplishments or achievements meet—a timeline so to speak. Both men and women need to grow up and physically/psychologically mature, but men need to establish themselves in some sort of productive societal position, so that makes them the older of the two sexes as men must work to establish themselves.

        Odd how this was known in the West until a century or so ago. Parents would never allow their daughters to entertain marriage to a male without “substance”.

        • “Odd how this was known in the West until a century or so ago. Parents would never allow their daughters to entertain marriage to a male without “substance”.”

          Well, that was prior to the establishment of the welfare state, which, coincidentally, was about 100 years ago…

  34. “It turns out that there is little point in being a responsible man when the women are not good at being women.”

    That, right there pretty much sums up the modern Western dynamic.

  35. Exploitation of women was always a huge element of feminism.

    When I was young, i used to say that Give a medal to the guy that convinced women that meaningless sex was the ultimate in female empowerment.

    When I matured, I came to see that convincing women that working was more fulfilling than having children was another type of exploitation. Maybe a worse form.

    The reality is that for most women, feminism has meant foregoing a family for the caricature of housewivery – mindless meaningless “work” and shagging drinks for strangers.

    • Someone in Twitter wrote:

      “Feminism was promoted largely so professors could sleep with their students. Now transgender is is being embraced so pedos can sleep with children (ie, grooming)”

    • Dino, that sly dog, remembers wishing, “Give a medal to the guy that convinced women that meaningless sex was the ultimate in female empowerment.”

      Until the recent past, when I had thoughts like Dino’s, I would typically follow them with, “And those poor women! Being brainwashed by the media to abandon their true nature, which is monogamy and the raising of children.”

      The manosphere emphasizes observing female behavior, not what women say. The times in which we now live are an especially fertile time to observe women because nearly every constraint on their behavior and thoughts has been defeated.

      My own observations have convinced me that women’s nature is not monogamy and the raising of children. Rather, the terrible truth is that female nature is pursuing the attention of the highest value man available at the current moment. Monogamy is nothing. Children are a hindrance. Abortion is the best. In my sad opinion, this is the true nature of women.

      We have no choice but to restrain female nature like our forefathers did because, to my great sadness and surprise, it is even uglier than male nature.

      • Point taken, but I still claim Nature developed over millennia is not changed over a century or two. Given your description, why is it a common observation of “successful” feminist women, who at the end of their reproductive years go to great ends to have their “one and done” offspring? Something is gnawing at them. Something is missing in their lives. That something is their innate biology.

      • I have noticed that women, for time immemorial, through all eras and cultures, have dressed just as sluttily, or revealingly, as the standards of their time and place deem acceptable. As soon as it becomes socially acceptable to show more skin, they do. Every time. I’m not exactly sure what this means, but it definitely means something.

        • In the human species, women preen (advertise) for men. In the animal kingdom, this is often reversed. Women show off their fecundity. Women’s fashion at any particular time period can be understood in such mannerisms—display of breasts, buttocks and hips, lip and face coloring. Even the Muslims understand this and dress their women in bags for the opposite purpose.

      • Excellent comment. One still occasionally reads things like, “If only the world was run by women. It would be a place of peace, fairness, niceness and justice.”

        Well our bit of the world IS run by women, and from where I sit it looks more like a Heironymous Bosch painting.

        • “If women ruled the world, we would still be living in caves. But caves with beautifully decorated curtains”. The only true thing a feminist (Camilla Piaglia) ever said.

  36. Similarly, the woke feminists will disappear in a crisis. In fact, all forms of feminism will disappear as soon as things get serious again.

    Do you have anything to support this assertion. Because it sounds like wishful thinking.

    • Makes perfect sense to me. When things get serious, living gets hard. When living gets hard, making it day to day requires more physical work, less sitting at computers and TVs (brainwashing), and a strong societal preference for practically. By extension, that last part means a lot less patience for bullshit.

      Suddenly, the marginal trance on society will be broken and people will, through necessity, get back to basics. That won’t include listening to pick up artists and feminists bloviate at coffee houses and it won’t include having a “national conversation” every time someone gets their feelings hurt. It also won’t include feminism, or many other -isms either.

    • Many in the comments, and I think Z himself, have pointed out, quite correctly, that when shit gets real, women go for the strong horse, for protection.

      One’s own eyes support this assertion.

      • Yep. The wife here is pretty up and willing to do whatever she wants, whenever she wants. But when it goes “bump in the night” what she wants is to wake me up to go “handle it”. Intruders, both human and animal, are my job. She’ll hide inside while I shoot the damn thing, then and only then—possibly—take a peak at it. Oh, and I also get to bury it as well.

        On the other hand, she gets to take care of the grandkids when they visit. That’s her forte. Works for me. I don’t speak “baby”.

    • I’ll bite: a masculine society with a male military will crush and conquer a female society.

      US security forces are overwhelmingly male. The replacement cohort in the security state is overwhelmingly female and diverse.

      No individual, group, nation or group of nations would dream of engaging the US 25 years ago with any hope of prevailing. Now? How about in 10 years?

      Diversity (division) and females are not strengths.

      • The geographic uniqueness of America in all likelihood makes it safe from military invasion even when it is feminized. A country like Belgium for instance is of course ripe to be overrun, except all its neighbors are feminized too, and all of them living under the security umbrella of the GAE, which is based in an unconquerable nation. Pretty slick setup tbh

        Of course migrant invasion is another subject

    • 50,00 years of human evolution “supports this assertion”, you cannot really be this dim so I’m going to assume this is a troll attempt of some sort I’m not getting.

    • Because when you’re starving and fighting for a crust of bread, and trying to keep yourself dying of hypothermia, you suddenly stop giving a damn about reporting the man who wolf-whistled you that time.

  37. ‘Women get the men they deserve.’ On the bright side, these women are not procreating. On the dark side, the other ones continue to do so and pour over the border/Mediterranean.

    Thoughts on the Bolso/Lula happenings? I had a tiny inkling of optimism this time. Now his claim to fame is to be caught on camera eating fast food in Florida.

    • The usual suspects thought it was in their interests to create mayhem in Brazil, because Brazil is tilting toward Russia. They could not see past their hatreds and backed Lula over Trump’s buddy Bolsonaro. Now they have a very pro-Russian government in Brazil.

      • It’s funny that their hatred of Trump made them install Lula when they had to know that Lula was a friend of Russia/China when he was president before. He was the B in BRICS and was an enthusiastic supporter of the multipolar world.

        Once again, reflexive Trump hatred shoots the GAE in the foot. I was a fan of Bolsonaro but I can see Lula being better in the long run. Wonder if the neos will run a color revolution in Brazil soon?

        • I half suspect these riots are not a warning to Lula. Then again, if the usual suspect were this clever, they would have made a deal with Bolsonaro.

    • Yeah the “trad” people we tend to like are certainly the darker ones. East Asians are still trad, but I wonder if that will go away. They seem to have a penchant for weird sex stuff and girly-men.

      The irony is, I think, that the Muslim invaders and the Latin invaders will teach the White man how to be men again. Whites will be outbred and displaced, but this might end up with a ethnic European renaissance…in a few generations, if we’re lucky. We just need to find a place to nurture the renaissance.

      • White men will be enslaved, castrated, or murdered…or pick any 2 out of 3, and probably all 3.

        The wombs of white women will be repurposed for the breeding of the conquerors. It has been this way for thousands of years, and will not change just for us.

  38. it seems peculiar that tate would engage in sex trafficking, when he makes so much money off his “classes”. who knows what the real story is; stranger things have happened. maybe it is like that weird sex cult that blew up a couple of years ago, and had some b-level actresses in it. almost seems like you could do a remake of Conan The Barbarian set in modern times…

    • Most of these YouTube pick up artists are fakers. From what I gather, Tate was basically running a pornography operation. Most likely he was using the females being exploited as props in his “classes” about being a pickup artist.

      • I am also skeptical. The EU nations produce a lot of porn. I’d think he could afford to pay them. But who knows, pro athletes who should have no shortage of willing partners sometimes commit rape.

      • “the females being exploited”

        Those females knew very well what they were doing. Porn actresses are not some poor innocent exploited victims.
        If anything, it’s the moronic male followers of Tate who are being exploited by him; and millions of porn-addicted men are exploited by the porn industry. Porn is mental heroin.

      • “Most likely he was using the females being exploited as props in his “classes” about being a pickup artist.”

        This is the key part of the grift. You video yourself doing the cold approach but you’re actually talking to a woman you’ve hired. “Hey there sugar tits, cum here often? Would you be interested in some sex? I can do really good sex with my pee pee, right in your bagina. I’ve totally seen a bagina before so I know what I’m doing.” And then the woman pretends to swoon from the PUA’s honeyed words.

        The marks eat this up because their dads failed them, and they’re just boys looking for a masculine role model and finding it in these clown charlatans. And they pay for the self-help books, seminars, and vitamins.

    • I’ve read that the “sex-trafficking” is nothing more than hiring a prostitute. IE almost completely contrived.

      • Dinodoxy: “sex-trafficking” is nothing more than hiring a prostitute”.

        Unless the chick is moved through a nation where she’s beneath the age of legal consent.

        Then it’s a pretty serious felony.

        PS: Who precisely makes the babies [to preserve the future of our bloodlines] if all the chicks are on birth control and/or having abortions [from prostituting themselves to older men], and none of the chicks ever get around to producing actual live births of White children?

        You need to spend some time on /pol/ and learn what life is like for a young man of Klownworld, in his early 20s, whose parents are NOT bazillionaires & sadistic psychopaths.

        PRO-TIP: Reading libertardian psy-op material is not a good look.

        If you’ve got a soul, then you need to spend a long time asking yourself why this isn’t obvious to you.

        !!! BONUS VIDYA !!!

        https://tinyurl.com/e2vnxba5

        Judy Woodruff: “Is there a lesson, for you, for anyone else looking… looking at this?”

        Bill Gates: “Well he’s dead, so, ah, you know, in general, you always have to be careful…”

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