Whenever the the word “secession” is uttered, it is assumed that angry, racist honkies from the South are trying to stand athwart history, keeping America from reaching the great beige future imagined by the Founders. After all, the story of America is Yankee New England imposing civilization on the rest of the nation and, from time to time, those barbaric slack-jawed yokels from the South threatening to leave. Everyone knows this, because it is in our history books and movies.

In reality, the birthplace of secession in America is not Fort Sumter, but Salem Massachusetts. In the late 18th and early 19th century, Federalists based in Massachusetts agitated for the New England states to leave the Union. It really got going when Jefferson and the Republicans swept the 1800 elections, giving his party control of the Congress and the Presidency. The Federalists thought it was the sign of the apocalypse and ratcheted up their efforts to secede, culminating in the Hartford Convention.

It is a useful bit of history to keep in mind when thinking about the current grumbling from the Cult over the most recent election. Progressives are not a tolerant bunch. Even though they lack the self-awareness to see it, most of what drives them is a bone-deep hatred of their fellow Americans. You saw this with Bush the Minor, who embraced all the crackpot policies of the Left while in office. He was basically a post-modern LBJ, but the Left hated him because he was from Texas, a Christian and a Yankee apostate.

As the fever breaks and America begins the long march back to normalcy, the Left is looking around and imagining themselves surrounded by the people they hate. It is why they like making up stories about Trump supporters assaulting good thinkers on the streets. They really believe that the next step is to round up the people of [the blank space where God used to be] and sending them off to internment camps. Therefore, any nutty tale that confirms that fear is accepted and waved around in the news.

The point being is that the spiritual sons and daughters of John Winthrop have never really wanted to be Americans, if that meant embracing the rest of us as equals. Rather, they are fine with America as long as it runs something like Iran, where the Progressive leaders run the country and the secular institutions of government are mostly window dressing. If Iran ever gets popular government, the Mullahs will head into exile. Now that America is on the road to free government, the Progressives are talking about secession again.

The big one is CalExit, a movement to have California break off from the rest of the country. This has been spurred by the election, where normal Americans broke mostly for Trump, but Californians voted in heavy numbers for the anti-American candidate. If you look at the bill of particulars on the CalExit site, the inability to dictate election results to the rest of the country is one reason they want to leave. Their history may be a little off, but the reasoning is well within the tradition of Yankee scolds going back to the founding.

That is not a terrible development. The lesson of the Hartford Convention is the rest of the country should have encouraged New England to leave. Fifty years after the convention, Puritan lunatics were invading the rest of the country, ushering in a century and a half of cultural lunacy that has just about obliterated America as a self-governing republic based in individual liberty. Letting the heirs of those original lunatics break off and create their own countries is an idea who time came 200 years ago.

There would be other benefits to California leaving. One is everyone would get serious about boundaries again. Californians would now be foreigners in America. The only way to regulate this is by tying citizenship to place of birth. People born in California, for example, would no longer be Americans. Those living in, say, Colorado, would have the right to return, like Jews to Israel, or remain as resident aliens. They would no longer have the right to vote, hold office or serve on juries. Colorado and Nevada would have a chance to avoid the same fate as Vermont and New Hampshire.

Another benefit is that it could encourage New England to break off and form a separate country too. At the minimum, the members of the Cult, who have moved to other places, like Virginia and North Carolina, may decide it is time to return home. Maybe New England does not secede, but perhaps it can go back to being a reservation for Progressive nutters that is granted a degree of autonomy. It would be a bit ironic if the end result was a demand from the Cult for a return of Federalism and state’s rights.

The major benefit of losing California is we would lose their trillion in bad debt that threatens to destroy the bond market. California has been able to kick its problems down the road because of its statehood. It is the stinky pile of sub-prime mortgages in the AAA rated MBS. Independence would force some responsibility on California. It could also force reform on the Cult of Modern Liberalism, which has thrived by shifting the costs of its polices onto others. If not, the rest of us would be free of them anyway, which is what matters.

130 thoughts on “CalExit!

  1. Guys, California isn’t going anywhere. It’s not going to happen regardless of what Californians want. Manifest destiny is a huge part of American history. Both Mexico and the Native American Indians paid a price for getting in the way of Washingtons drive to extend the American empire from coast to coast. Does anyone really believe the Feds are now to give up 2/3 of their west coast coastline because a bunch of looneys are throwing a tantrum after losing the election? Not only no but hell no. Ain’t happenin’. How many military bases are in California? I don’t know the number but it’s a whole bunch. And the Feds are just going to give them up? Uh…no. Not today, not tomorrow either. It may be fun to talk about but hell *will* freeze over first.

  2. “The only way to regulate this is by tying citizenship to place of birth.”

    Shortsighted. Instead, we should announce a free amnesty period of six to twelve months. Let any non-Californian who wants to join their Brave New World emigrate to the coast with no red tape and no penalty. Similarly for any Californian who wants to live in the USA. Let all the loons self-select and self-segregate before we wall off their inciient wasteland and wait for it to burn.

    • The trouble is the loons of Massachusetts self-selected their way into New Hampshire, ruining the state. Similarly, the loons of NYC ruined Vermont. California nutters have invaded Colorado and Nevada.

      No thanks. Anyone born in California is a citizen of that new country. To regulate the movement of our remaining indigenous nutters, vote by birth place solves that problem long term.

  3. You lost me at the ex Californian resident alien part. I like many others who left California left California because of the looney leftists she have assumed control of the state. Why would you want to penalize the few smart freedom living people who fled from the lunacy?

  4. I would encourage any state that doesn’t agree with the swamp that is DC to leave. Hell I’d rather live in a free and independent Tennessee, N.Dakota or Maine than be part of Obama’s America or one in which Schumer has any voice.

  5. I think it’s fair to say that the rest of Trumplandia is sick of them and would do whatever we could to hasten their departure. National debt issues? Easy to solve… let all those holding treasury notes redeem them with the new CA gov’t. That way they “pay” in direct proportion to their participation in creating the US National debt.

    And think of how much money we can make selling them power and water.


  7. I live here in the Bay Area and observe these nutters every day. I am convinced that they suffer from bi-polar disorder among other ailments. There are insufferable and talking themselves into a frenzy as though they are victims – victims of the ‘alt right’. Having said that – they may get their wish although not as they envisioned: the rumbling San Andreas vault that would be on the Richter scale of about a ’10’. Listening to the scientists here – they are anticipating this earthquake in the near future. If that should come to pass – that would shove most of California into the ocean. I know it is nothing to joke about but it is the fact of life. Time will tell!

  8. Pingback: Calexit | We Seek the Truth!

  9. A native Californian and a Conservative, it pains me to see glee in other parts of the country about the Iranian-American Silicon Valley guy’s grand idea to secede from the Union. The average Californian hasn’t a clue what that is all about. We have been wished devastating earthquakes and all manner of disaster. No one pays any attention to the many millions who live here who are NOT progressives. Who reliably vote Republican. Who support Republican candidates for president and for offices in other states.

    Outnumbered at the polls, we are still American citizens, most by birth, who lived in what was for many decades a Republican state. How easy to immortalize Ronald Reagan, yet skip the fact that – although he was born elsewhere – he was as Californian as it gets.

    California is currently way down at #46 (most being Mississippi at #1) of the 50 states in terms of support by the federal government. That means we get back very little of the tax dollars we pay to the fed.

    California provides most of the food that the other states need and enjoy. Even progressive Slate had to admit that:
    The C-Free Diet:
    If we didn’t have California, what would we eat?

    At some point the Democrat citizenry in California has to get fed up with the way the Democrat-dominated state legislature and wacko government are running things. It affects them, too. The uncommitted No Party Preference registrations are growing. It would be nice if we had some friends out there in the states where many Californians first came from who would lend us some encouragement instead of indulging in kneejerk slamming.

    • i know of what you speak of. and today it will be a chilly 60F here in SoCal; might even have to put long pants on! meanwhile in the rest of the country I believe things are a tad chillier. and when in January, we get a few 80F days, I will think of the mean things said here…and laugh as they freeze their nuts off 🙂

  10. The people who think California can secede and that everything will be just hunky-dory for them have a rude awakening. All you have to do is look at Cuba to see what happens when Uncle Sam is out to get you.

    Then we have the issue of tariffs being imposed on their goods. I think 35% on Apple products and on anything coming from Hollywood is about right. And what are they going to use for currency? I don’t think the California peso is going to be worth a lot of money in terms of dollars.

  11. Secession – at least partial – may be in the cards very soon, no organizing required! All that’s needed is for the San Andreas fault make it’s long-overdue move, settling everything westward a couple of hundred feet down.

    Now THAT would put a dent in the Marxist problem and the immigration issue at the exact same time! Plus, it’d shrink the left wing of the House of Reps by 20 per cent. Talk about a landslide political event! Woo woo!

    Now, if we can only figure out a way to make sure Stretch Pelosi is at home when the crackup happens ….

    • Is there really that much pent-up tension in the fault? 300 feet down would put most of SoCal underwater and most of the Bay area.

  12. The DNC cannot afford to let California go… It would mean the DEMs would loose every national based election for th foreseeable future. Ragardless of California’s desire to leave, the DEMs won’t let it go..

  13. Ok, so I’m allowed back since I was born in Maryland, which is to far South to be a Yankee, but to far North to be Southern. What about my family though? Wife and four boys were born in California. She doesn’t vote and my kids aren’t crazy leftists…yet.

    • If you are an immigrant to this country, you are automatically a citizen of the country of your birth. Most countries will also extend citizenship to your children, even if they were not born there. I toyed with the idea of getting a passport from the country my parents come from, just in case I am ever involved in an incident on an airplane.

  14. Tempting though the prospect of jettisoning a huge chunk of progressive lunatics and illegal Mexicans may be, I do not favor Calexit. Surrendering territory implies weakness, particularly when the real estate being surrendered is prime, which much of California is. Rather, I would obligingly encourage Calexit so that when it occurs the US might invade and reclaim what is rightfully ours. US forces stationed in California would almost certainly side with the US over the prospect of some kind of JerryBrownistan, and thus guaranteeing that the war would last less than a fortnight. Retribution would be swift and sure. There would of course be the added bonus that the US could impose some rather stringent conditions on California before it could be readmitted as a state – among which the forced exile of Rosie O’Donnell would be a relatively minor but none-the-less immensely satisfying provision.

  15. Pingback: CalExit! | IowaDawg Musings & More

  16. As one of the few conservatives stranded here in Coastal California, I can tell you that there is more than one state contained herein.

    The population centers along the Coast went heavily for Clinton, While the Central Valley, the far North and mountain areas were mostly Trump all the way.

    Secession would mean that the state would rapidly split into two or more warring provinces, with the country bumpkins in control of most of the water, energy and food production, what little remains of the industrial base, and most of the military reservations.

    Secession is highly unlikely, but if Trump follows through on his promises, and the economy gets roaring again everywhere but here and the other regulation and tax happy coastal enclaves, even limousine liberal hypocrites will have to notice.

  17. Meanwhile, 5 miles away from where I type this…….
    SANTA ANA – Santa Ana officials have called the city a sanctuary for all residents – regardless of immigration status – but ahead of Donald Trump’s inauguration, they adopted a resolution that makes it official.

    Council members voted 5-0 Tuesday in favor of adopting a sanctuary resolution that requires the city to strengthen various policies that already exist to further protect residents.
    There are pockets of Greater L.A. that are indistinguishable from the rural, underdeveloped, usually southern parts of Mexico, at least where their populations are taken into account. Santa Ana is one of them. Many schools are 98% Hispanic, and 2% who didn’t fill out the forms correctly. All six council members and the corrupt mayor are Hispanic, of course.

    If you don’t live in SoCal you would not believe how many resolutions, statements and whatnot along the same lines we see from Santa Ana have been tumbling forth from people in pretty high places. Not just the activist crowd. LA Mayor, LA Police Chief, LA City Council, LA County Board of Supervisors.

    This should get interesting.

    • A cutoff of the federal cheese will have them weeping in the streets and burning down the neighborhoods. And a lot of them moving back South.

    • I live in Florida. Thank God Cubans are pretty much the Hispanic antithesis of Mexicans, apparently.

      • I don’t really fault many of the immigrants themselves. We make it too easy to move here by not enforcing the rules. They come from a “socialist yet entrepreneurial” culture that has little real world respect for the law, right into a different culture with similar characteristics. We need to step up immigration enforcement to some sort of “old time” levels, and the rest of it takes care of itself. Cutting off freely distributed federal benefits without benefit of documentation will winnow out the committed from the freeloaders, and it is a start. Then we demand adherence to the other aspects of immigration law. It is just a matter of doing it. We will end up with fewer people in California, but many of the petty “broken windows” problems that progress to greater crimes will dry up.

        • @ Dutch – The problem isn’t just immigrants, one only look around Chicago and Detroit and the rest of the American rust belt. Immigration had nothing to do with the deindustrialization and economic collapse of those areas. That was pure, capitalistic off-shoring for profit because of NAFTA. Those companies left Whites, Blacks and Hispanics with no where to work even if they wanted to. No immigrant took their job away, the companies simply left.

          To your point, we are seeing similar situations here in Germany with sub-economies developing in immigrant neighborhoods. Many are honest, decent shop keepers who keep to themselves and do business as they did where they were before coming here. There have been gang and criminal activities associated with immigrants, primarily those from Africa. However the Russians, Albanians and Bulgarians are way ahead of them, and they do not tolerate “foreigners” on their turf. The German police are wise enough to let the criminal gangs sort them selves out so long as honest people are not directly affected.

          • Welcome back Karl! It is important to understand that Southern California has a relatively small black population, and the Rodney King riots of 1992 and the Watts riots of the 1960’s notwithstanding, the poor black population, such as it has been, has been largely pushed out by the Latinos. Detroit and Chicago are very different from L.A. The migrant Latinos tend to be very entrepreneurial, and seem to really enjoy living a life that is a pastiche of traditional Latin and also traditional American culture (perhaps not unlike the Florida Cubans). I think, to a point, the white local culture enjoys the whole thing as well. But there is also the piling on of people and benefits resulting from the completely uncontrolled open door immigration policy. Add to that the Aztlan Mexican nationalist movement pushed by the schools onto the youth, and there is a whole lot of “not good” in the mix. The overwrought election demonstration antics (gang-like posturing and the flying of Mexican flags) are just a piece of the situation, and I suspect many Latino immigrants would rather that stuff didn’t go on, it makes day to day life a bit harder for them in many subtle ways. Every scenario and problem has common elements, but every one has distinctive elements as well. Southern California has some things going on here that are very specific to the times and the geography. The Latino situation “at the street level” in the Southwest is potentially very good for all, but has been corrupted by the political powers that be, that are all too willing to throw over the law in order to reap personal and political benefits.

          • Hallo Dutch! Yes, I recall during my stay in the SF Bay area on the few occasions I had to travel to Los Angeles and San Diego, it was obvious there was little if any real industry or much potential given the lack of resources. I was told McDonnald Douglas was a big employer during the 1970’s but like most aerospace and military industry, it wasn’t getting better for that part of the state. At least not the level of tech that was booming in Silicon Valley. I remember many articles about Northern California wanting to split to avoid sending their water to LA. There’s no making some people happy!

          • Southern California’s industry has shrunk and evolved some, too, but it was largely based on oil, aerospace and hi-tech manufacturing. As the workforce aged and jobs moved away, retirees were not replaced and the entire economy was not wrenched around like that of the Midwest.

          • @ Dutch – Any foresight as to the future of southern California? I believe the un-official border is just south of Monterey – more or less. Do you expect LA and San Diego to merge into one mega-tropolis, in the way Dallas and Ft. Worth are doing now?

      • Ah but we have plenty of Puerto Rican’s. At least here in the center part of the state.
        What is California to do for fuel? Do they have any of their own refineries?
        And Karl, you have been away too long. Welcome back.

        • @ Shelby – Danke! Good to be back. To your question – the Bay Area, or specifically Richmond has a very large refinery complex as does Signal Hill in Southern California. Look up the California Midway-Sunset Oil Field. I suspect they could keep their cars running and their swimming pools heater for a while at least if they did break away. Now water – there’s the real question to ask!

    • Santa Ana is, for all intents and purposes, Mexico. I grew up in Garden Grove, the town just north of there, and Garden Grove has been turning into Little Hanoi for the past 20 years. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, the Viets are hard workers and good businesspeople, but the White population is slowly and steadily disappearing.

  18. Anybody care to speculate on what the results of a referendum held in the other 49 states on California leaving the union would be?

  19. Enjoyable read and fun examining the different scenarios imagined in the comments, but does anyone seriously believe that CA secession would be on the table for more than a nanosecond? Progs love to posture, but when push comes to shove…

    I’ll take door number three, the earthquake scenario, as the undoing of the state, with a devastating drought as the next best hope. A distant but nevertheless conceivable state-buster is a political confrontation between SoCal and the northern counties, aka Jefferson, with the latter as the prime mover.

  20. Thank you for this. I’ve posted comments here before in favor of Calexit. Conservatives should be doing everything we can to advance the Calexit process as soon as practical, and preferably before the 2020 election.

    As a resident of Colorado I can attest that our fate is sealed. Denver, Boulder, and Aurora have been sanctuary cities since at least the 1990s and the US born children of immigrants, largely Hispanic, are now of voting age. Add to that the influx of Californians and legal MJ stoners and Colorado is now permanently blue.

    The only thing that keeps Colorado sane from a fiscal perspective is that in the 1990s we passed the TABOR amendment, which strictly limits the state government’s ability to raise taxes. Democrats (and some turncoat Republicans) have been fighting tooth and nail to get TABOR overturned in the courts. God help us if they succeed.

    Colorado adopted the Medicaid expansion under Obamacare. We added something on the order of 700,000 new medicaid recipients to the welfare roles–the entire net increase in health care coverage in Colorado was due to Medicaid expansion. Progressives, of course, tout a massive expansion of the welfare roles as a victory.

    FedGov covers 100% of the costs through 2016, whereupon Fed reimbursement rates drop down to 90% by 2020. Beginning in 2018 the increased Medicaid costs are going to blow a hole in the Colorado budget that, due to TABOR, simply cannot be filled. At that point Colorado starts its walk down the path to fiscal Californication.

    Personally, I’d like to see Congress cut Medicaid reimbursement rates to zero. Let the blue states put their money where their mouth is.

    • Colorado resident here. This state has failed from the top down. After living in CA, NV, AZ and CO, I can say with relative assurance that I’ve never seen such an incompetent bunch of state representatives than the ones the Republican Party sends to Denver. They whine and point to demographic changes in the state as the cause of their failure, but other states — AZ, so far — were able to retain their libertarian/conservative politics while absorbing far, far more Spanish-speakers/Californians. The Republican Party has no excuse in this state. They’re effete, poorly educated, incapable of grasping the bigger picture and less-than-fully committed to keeping this state free.

      Colorado will go the way of California, unfortunately. It didn’t have to be this way, but the stranglehold of the Republican Party by cucks, both paid and volunteer, have created a layer of incompetence that can’t, and won’t protect our beautiful state.

      I’d say “vote ’em out,” but their successors won’t be any better. Sigh.

      • Not sure when you moved here. I lived here in the mid 1990s, moved to the East Coast for a while, then moved back in 2001. I knew several players in the Colorado Republican Party in the early 2000s and your assessment of them as wholly uncommitted cucks is *exactly* correct. In fairness, those were different times.

        In some ways Colorado Republicans may have been a victim of their own success in the 1990s. TABOR all but eliminated the threat of tax increases under a Democrat government, which drastically reduced the incentive for independents to “vote their pocketbook” for Republicans. If TABOR is overturned by the courts the Democrats will certainly ram large tax increases through to fill the massive hole in the budget created by Medicaid expansion. This may give Republicans an opportunity. Whether they seize upon it is a wholly different question.

  21. Taking the borders more seriously would be good, but that would provide a basic problem here. Look at a continental map, one showing the major U.S. highways.Texas has a natural southern border, easily noticed on both map and ground. West from El Paso, it is basically a straight line or two, with minor adjustments. All of this is conceptually easy to wall off, if the spirit is willing. But look at California, particularly the southern region, It contains a whole node of Federal interstate highways, I-10 in the south, all running eastward, in the case of I-10 all the way to the Florida Atlantic coast. Other Interstates lead up into Nevada and beyond.Penetrating further up California’s I-5 you come to I-80, another strategic path into America’s heartland. As a politically independent “country”, California turns the Western flank on Trump’s Wall. And we all should be assured that Independent California will become a de facto part of Mexico. Hooking Trump’s wall northward to cover the Arizona and Nevada borders will be essential, and that will add much more expense, time, and difficulty. And then, we must recognize that Oregon will be the next to fall, as that I-5 pipeline meets no real boundary until the Columbia River. And again I-84 eastward into Nevada and Idaho. This will b the path for the invading horde, perhaps not of Panzers, but a blitzkrieg of ’55 Chevys.
    And yes, it is Latinos much more than “California Puritans”, which create the cultural and political problem. Without the unassimilated Mexicans, the Californians would not have the numbers and political heft. Remember that California was a mainly Republican state in the 1960s to 1980.

    • The borders in and out of the state are difficult, once you leave the highways. Ask the Donner Party about their journey.

      • So you don’t leave the highways, particularly during the winter months. During December 1989, I migrated from Minnesota to Oregon for a job opportunity. Did it in three days in a car scarcely better than that ’55 Chevy, and part of the journey was during a blizzard. Its only an obstacle if you are traveling via Conestoga wagon. And Mexican migrants typically do not try to come here in mid-Winter.

        • You do know the Donner brothers Jacob and George were of German descent? The name is obvious! It may also sound familiar to you in a popular Christmas song as the name of one of the reindeer – Donner means Thunder and Blitzen means Lightning.

  22. “….Independence would force some responsibility on California…..”

    I don’t think so.
    They would become some bizarre hybrid of Venezuela, Cuba, Greece , Sweden and Denmark.

    Further, since SoCal is mostly Mexican, it would encourage the denizens there to also seek independence and either “go back” to Mexico (even though the original indigenous “Mexicans” never set foot above the Rio Grande) or just form a new state of Mexifornia in which Mexican Spanish would be the official tongue.
    After all, why should they live under the boot of the gringo, English speaking billionaire, Silicon Valley, Nancy Pelosi elitists??

    Funny, is it not, that progressive liberals are all for an almighty central government only as long as they control that sewer in DC.
    Progressives really are the ideological off-spring of the European aristocracy (Kings,Queens, Dukes, Lords, etc., of pre-19th Century Europe), whereby the Royals really believed that they were destined and entitled by GOD and birthright to rule over the unwashed, undeserving, stupid, ignorant masses.

  23. The likely result for Cali would be devastation by war. The reason is they’re too needy (of water in particular), vain and stupid to play Finland and so avoid becoming a serious threat to the rest of us. More specifically:
    – Their core population lives densely in a 400 mile long extended but very shallow coastal enclave that is both economically unsustainable without substantial outside resources but militarily indefensible against any sort of determined thrust from the interior of CONUS (Continental US) despite some significant natural barriers (Mohave Desert; High Sierras; etc.). But they also control most economic access to Asia via the rail-connected ports of LA & SF, which they will have to tax heavily to support their lifestyle and pay their water bills.
    – The costs of utilizing the natural barriers to enforce their obvious toll gate scheme the via creating an effective defensive system would be enormous. They’d have to maintain many, many combat outposts along the natural barriers plus at least 3 – 4 widely dispersed rapid reaction mobile forces, plus an on-call major reserve force, all in very difficult terrain. Not to mention an effective air defense system.
    – Because they are not Israel due to their hedonistic culture and indolent life-style they are incapable of mounting this kind of military effort. Plus having to pay world prices for water would no doubt precipitate popular demands for conquest of the Rockies States.
    – Therefore, being delusional fools above all, they will be incapable of resisting the inevitable offer of alliance from some competitive power looking to fish in troubled waters. Could be China (obviously) but this is also just up Russian’s historical ally (perhaps a repeat of Obama’s Excellent Syrian Adventure). Maybe even Mexico if they thought they’d get away with it.
    – Any other power having a foothold on the continent, not to mention a strangle-hold on Pacific trade will be completely unacceptable to the rest of CONUS: Even a hint at such should trigger a preemptive strike by any hard-headed strategist.

    • Mentioning Russia, you may remember that Russia once had settlements in the upper Northwest, as far south as Northern California, I believe. Russia could assert a claim to return, particularly if Oregon and Washington were also eventually pressured to follow California’s lead.

    • >>>>”But they also control most economic access to Asia via the rail-connected ports of LA & SF, which they will have to tax heavily to support their lifestyle and pay their water bills.”<<<<

      Just in passing, this might not be totally true. The expanded locks of the Panama Canal are now operational, and Gulf and East Coast ports have been expanded to take the new Super Container Ships. It is now cheaper to ship from Asia to those ports than trans-ship via LA, Oakland, or Seattle. Keep the military bases around San Diego, and let the rest of the California coast go.

      Fiscal reality is not a hallmark of California Leftists.

      Mind you, as a Coloradan, I have no problem in cutting off the water and power to the new Peoples' Democratic Oligarchy of California or its successor state Tlazomiquiztli, of the Nation of Atzlan

      • Don’t forget the global warming taxes on the ports. That’s currently a problem compounded by the Panama Canal widening.

  24. It’s always enjoyable to read the reasons why somebody should do something, which, in turn, prove exactly why they will not leave. Debt being chief among them. CA is only the “world’s 5th largest economy” in the context of its membership in the United States of America. Imagine what that economy would look like, if, for example, the entire United States Military left CA and took their entire industrial base with them relocating everything to FL, TX, HI, OR, WA, and VA.

    For CA to leave the Union would mean the end of whatever term you might have for modern, American, Liberalism. About 1/5th of the House Democratic caucus is from California. If CA leaves, and that would include Pelosi, Democrats would lose 39 House seats. The GOP just a dozen, some of whom are just R’s of convenience.

    Further compounding CA’s problem would be the immediate drain of people OUT of CA who do not want secession. The flow runs both directions. Sure, expats in the USA would need to go home…but figure also that maybe 1/3 of Californians would flee in terror. It’s one thing to talk tough when the USA subsidizes your security. It’s quite another when the gravy train ends, and you’re looking at an Argentina or Brazilian style government.

    Or, maybe they just join up with Mexico, but either way the refugee crisis and population drain would be enormous.

    Oh, and three words which would define the nearly immediate call for war on the United States:

    Water. Water. aaaand…Water.

    Sanctimony feels good, but it does nothing for you when you get thirsty or need to grow some food.

  25. Up in Canada we finally called Quebec on their whining and said fine have your vote and be gone if need be. We stopped caving in to their moaning and bitching and pleading with them to stay. Since the vote failed and we stopped feeding the separation trolls, the talk has completely shutdown.
    Tell them what it would mean ie. citizenship, all the toys they would lose and happily explain the reality then let ’em decide.
    As if the snowflakes could handle the real work of building a new country.

    • Yep. The Scots are playing this game now. I use to say, with regards to Canada, that the easiest way to end Quebec separatism was for the rest of Canada to hold a vote on throwing Quebec out. The English should do the same thing with the Scots, but there’s a non-trivial chance it would pass so maybe the risk is not worth it.

      • I have largely shared jay’s views on the Quebec question but as time passes I realize more and more that if I had been a French Canadian, with 300+ years of roots, I probably would have been a separatist too. At least until recently.

        It’s too late for all that anyway. The late Pierre Trudeau succeeded in his multi-part mission carried out through the policy of multiculturalism and social democracy, though its full fruition waited a couple of decades after he left office. He sort of finally made Canada diverse enough that French Canadians can call the whole thing home, not really by spreading them around but by diluting the identity of English Canada.

        He killed both French Canadian separatist nationalism and the rather more embryonic English Canadian nationalism which vainly thought of itself as pan-Canadian, and he killed off lingering Anglocentric style Canadian patriotism with a focus on Britain as well. Pretty much annihilated any kind of Canadian nationalism that was not wholly propositional, and even any propositional nationalism whose proposition was anything other than “Diversity is Our Strength”. Again, it has taken a few decades, and I’m not even sure this Canada is quite what PET was aiming for.

        (And even at that, purely values-based nationalism is taking a hit- one of the Tory leadership contended is pushing values tests for immigrants, said values having wholly progressive content, and is being characterized as some sort of Nazi for her troubles.]

        I sometimes feel like Canada of the 1980s and even 1990s is another country. Never mind the one my father grew up in. That was another world altogether.

        Oddly, since 2000 there has been far more national effort and ceremony to commemorate the world wars and our veterans than there was when I grew up in the 1970s and 1980s. I had thought it a positive trend, and maybe it was under the Chretien Liberal government and the Harper Conservative government. Now I think of it as theatre and wonder how many of the veterans think this country was the one they hoped for. Some, no doubt. How many?

        • Remember, that not all of Quebec was part of historically French Quebec. Some of their territory, if not most of it, was English. I wouldn’t assume that these people would want to stay with the rest of Quebec.

  26. We get to keep all Federal installations. That would include the national parks, as well as all buildings and military bases. If they want them, they can pay for them.

    • Yeah, kind of like having Guantanamo Bay in Cuba or Incirlik Air Base in Turkey. I like it. But then, it eventually will fall into the Pacific Ocean … sooo!

  27. One presumes that if California seceded it would soon become client state of Mexico. Much happiness for the resident amigos, though unclear how much happiness would come the way of the whites who chose to stay. Still, it might make them wish they had never started out on the rocky road of liberal lunacy.

      • It would be what you would call “coming full circle”. Before Mexico, Spain. Though I don’t see the circle going quite that far around – but close!

    • Nah! If anything, Mexico, the rest of it that is, would be absorbed into California and become Calixico or some such thing. The the libs could have all the cheap labor they crave for their crops and give all the illegals, who now become legal by virtue of absorption, their benefits, drivers licenses, etc. Lots of scams to be run on the poor ignorant Mexicans, most of them poor and in search of a better life. They sure aren’t getting it in Mexico.

  28. California isn’t going anywhere. Just like at the Hartford Convention, radicals make a lot of noise but don’t actually do anything and then get overtaken by events. Its more likely that they’ll keep going on the hope that 2016 was a fluke and keep stripping California like locusts until it collapses completely.

    “At the minimum, the members of the Cult, who have moved to other places, like Virginia and North Carolina, may decide it is time to return home.”

    New England has plenty of natural beauty but its a lousy place to live in the winter and even worse as a progressive utopia. The last time Puritans tried social experimentation there, they almost all froze to death. Besides, the original Puritans were trying to get to Virginia to begin with; it took them a couple of hundred years but they’ve mostly done it. I wouldn’t count of moving them around someplace either; if you want to reclaim the places they’ve colonized with internal immigration then you probably need your own missionaries.

    “Maybe New England does not secede, but perhaps it can go back to being a reservation for Progressive nutters that is granted a degree of autonomy.”

    Isn’t it already mostly a Progressive reservation?

    • Not really. There are serious divisions even within the New England states. NH resents MA idiots moving up there and turning it more liberal. Boston a-holes don’t believe civilization even exists outside of the Rte 495 belt. Western MA is where the dragons live. Vermont has and has had for quite some time an ongoing secessionist movement of it’s own. Upstate New Hampshire, most of Maine outside of Portland – and Western MA and rural CT – were all chock full of Trump signs during the recent election.

      You’ll still see the Stars and Bars flying here and there once you get outside the liberal utopia of Boston.

      New England would be a lot more “conservative” if they could somehow decede Boston from the rest of the state of MA.

      • You guys just got to read William Lind’s “Victoria”, it’s all that and more we are all talking about here.
        The first 9 chapters are free off his blog link above at Traditional Right.
        I got it all on the old Kindle for a few bucks. Takes place in NH, they secede, along with Maine then VT. Lind put a lot of thought into the unknowns. It is definitely his view on the Traditional Right, and it rocks. It is wonderful tale of good triumphs over evil. He doesn’t pull any punches, it is as superbly, deliciously, politically incorrect as it gets. After reading it, secession isn’t at all impossible. You can see why TPTB are terrified of the idea.
        If your from northern New England you will get a kick out of being there in the story first hand.

      • You are correct, sir. With the exception of Amherst and Northampton, and the welfare slums of Springfield and Holyoke, I saw LOTS of Trumpness here in the 413.

        • I saw a crap-load of Trump signs around MA. About 3 weeks before the election we took a detour off of Rte 495 one day when we were heading north – and it was all backed up. We drove parallel side roads – which took us thru Haverhill (old mill town). There were Trump signs EVERYWHERE. I would estimate that every 3rd or 4th house had a Trump sign proudly displayed out in the front yard – and probably a good 30% or more – were those huge 6 footers you have to build a frame for.

          I drive north on Rte 3 every day to work in NH. Somebody put one of those big Trump signs on a big frame right along the side of the highway. They had it setup so you could see the sign(s) going either direction on the highway. It lasted about two weeks before the MA Hwy Dept came by and tore it down ( I think it was actually on state land).

          Trump may have lost in MA – but conservatism is not completely dead here.

      • Yes, massholes are a problem, but it’s not a north versus south thing here in New Hampshire. Rockingham county which has 1/3 of the border with Mass is the reddest of the counties. Whither Coös county? How about Grafton? I was hoping that our new residency requirements for voter registration would help Cheshire and Strafford (containing Keene State and UNH respectively), but they still went deep blue. Still, there is hope. While the state as a whole barely went to Anti-Americans for federal offices, the state offices are held in the majority by Republicans, and not big-government Democrat-lite Republicans. Oh, and the Free State Project is now in the migration phase. It should get very interesting here soon.

  29. Hey.. love the snark and wit in this one Zman. Heh heh. Great way to start the morning. California can’t leave.. they don’t produce enough power to keep their own lights on AND how are they going to demand to leave AND keep their precious water rights ? Let ’em and coastal Oregon and coastal Washington State entertain their fantasy. Should keep ’em busy while the rest of the country gets back to living the good life and whatnot.

    • Electricity and water, yup. The loonies here in CA are actually a minority, bolstered by the voting patterns of the, shall we say”, “less than legally immigrated”. The rest of us out here shake our heads, kind of like the family where the rogue kid does all the crazy stuff, but that is what the crazy kid does, so we roll our eyes and put up with it.

      It is kind of cute that the people who can’t function in the wake of a Trump victory, or get microaggressed at the drop of a hat, think that they can run a country.

      • Too busy with their coloring books?

        Meanwhile the very same Silicon Valley types (probably minus this weirdo Iranian dude), having plotted Donald Trump’s electoral demise, will now end up parleying with Donald Trump. Weren’t they just invited to a roundtable so that he could micro-examine what passes for their brains?

        Talk about an old fox! Me is a master…

    • California’s dearth of “home made” water and power is a direct consequence of the stupid regulatory and environmental polices they have imposed upon themselves.
      Way back in the 1950s, when normal folks ran that state, California began developing plans to provide ample water and power sources to accommodate a fast growing population.
      They were very successful in implementing these plans until the wealthy , liberal elites and their commie enviro cousins took power in California. All water and power development came to a screeching halt.

    • California would regulate itself into the stone age where everyone would live in a mud hut, where you would have to squat by your meat and your woman with a spear everyday, protecting your meat and your woman.
      Probably have to have an environmental permit to make your spear out of non carcinogenic greenhouse gas free materials, and a permit to carry a high capacity “assault spear”.

    • Ha ha ha. This is a good one. And we know how much the libs push for reparations. I know for a fact that the ones pushing for secession had no part in building the Great State of California. So when they, and if they secede, I would like to see the look on their collective faces when I file for reparations because they have absconded with properties they had no hand in building or adding value to in making it a great land. They are nothing but leeches and do not deserve the bilge waters that keep that sorry ass state afloat (as beautiful a thing of nature it is).

  30. The Louisiana Purchase was a major threat to New England mercantile supremacy. The New Englanders did not want peace so much as conquest of Canada instead of expansion toward the West and South.Their shipping interests in Rhode Island and Connecticut also fostered renewed quarrels with Britain over maritime issues. A Southern cynic might accuse the Yankees of provoking a fight and then trying to duck out when it went badly. We have seen this pattern repeated more recently, several times.
    As it is, the war and its settlement confirmed the existence of the United States and also its natural northern border along the St. Laurence and Great Lakes. Geographic natural borders are an excellent thing for a nation.

  31. Unfortunately it’s all talk. Leftist nutters really seem to have lost their mojo these days.

    The French-Canadians, Scots, and Californians are all full of crap with their succession talk. They all like their temper tantrums when the welfare gravy train is threatened, but aren’t quite so stupid as to give it up voluntarily. It would be gloriously funny if any of them actually did succeed (probably by accidentally winning one of their show referendums).

    • We have been a unified country for less time than you Americans given we only did so in 1871. But as happens from time to time, various Bavarian politicians have talked about secession. Most recently last year over the refugee crisis. All this talk is nonsense.

      But to the point of California – they don’t need to threaten succession, the next major earth quake will resolve the problem quite nicely sans vote. I just hope what’s left doesn’t float off to Hawaii and ruin the islands more than they have been already. If anything, maybe El Nino will force it to drift northward, where it will beach itself along the Washington coast – Seattle and San Francisco deserve each other.

        • The rumors of my Kristallnacht were greatly exaggerated. 🙂 I have been quietly reading the pre/post election discussions which I found many interesting things about both sides. But I will say, when all of Europe is in an uproar about Trump, you must know you voted the right person into office. Now Mr. Trump must deliver, yes?. So we watch, and we wait. Healing takes time, it took Germany many years so you must be patient.

          Your German phrase of the day is: “Aller Anfang ist schwer.” Which simply means, “All beginnings are hard.”

      • All secession talk is nonsense, until it happens.
        And if it does happen, then all the experts will appear explaining to all why that event was (should have been) entirely obvious.

        Trump will be the US President? NONSENSE !
        The USSR will fall ? nonsense.
        George Washington and a few thousand poorly dressed, poorly trained, poorly supplied farmers (and some real soldiers) defeat the most powerful army in the world ?? Nonsense.

        Black Swan events happen all the time and it is these unknowable, unfathomable events that change the course of history.

        • One must not forget the Irish who, like America, were willing to go to war with England for their independence almost immediately at the end of the Great War (1919-1921). Americans hold December 7th in remembrance of Pearl Harbor, but the Irish remember December 6th when the Irish Free State was declared.

          • The English view is that Ireland went on the offensive against the rest of the UK in the middle of the Great War when resources were greatly needed elsewhere. Oh, sure, there were Irish people who served on the front but the real problem for Britain was — in what some Brits call typical Irish fashion — the knife in the back nearer home.

            Oh, go on Irish-descendants, give me hell over Cromwell, the potato famine, etc. But it’s still hard to deny the timing. You got your Eurovision song contest winners from independence, so I don’t care.

        • I’m grateful to Der Trumpenfuhrer for many things already, but so far the most useful has been all this talk of secession. When I teach the run-up to the Civil War to undergrads, I ask them to consider what kind of person would uproot his entire life and move to Kansas just to vote in a referendum. That’s why secession happened, I say. Then I use the example of celebrities threatening to move to Canada. Never gonna happen, I tell them, but if it does — if Lena Dunham really does waddle her ass up to Vancouver permanently — then lock and load, it’s coming, and it will happen at light speed.

          • @ Severian – The election of Der Trumpenführer is certainly getting the attention of the Europeans, the German press is dumbfounded. I suspect his election, combined with Brexit, the popularity of the AfD and the recent Italian decisions are making many of the EU elite-bureaucrats rather nervous right now.

            Frau Merkels’ recent change of position on immigration (aka – the Islamic invasion) indicates she finally understands the inscription on the Reichstag building “Dem Deutschen Volke” which means “to the German people”. We will see if she is really listening to us Germans or not.

          • She is not listening, no polititians ever do, unless they feel in fear of losing their position, which she isn’t. All i ever hear Germans do is gripe and complain at the stammtisch, never do they do more than that. When i suggest they do something else, all i hear is “We are not the French, we don’t go out to complain, we sit at our kneipe and complain.” Frau Merkel is not afraid of losing anything.

          • @ Merikaner – For those who don’t know, the stammtisch is generally speaking a special area, usually a table, reserved for regular customers at the neighborhood tavern. It’s where you find people who talk with a lot of beer in their bellies and very few good ideas in their heads. Most of the brown-shirt followers of our infamous Austrian-born Chancellor were Bavarian stammtisch regulars.

          • Does her attitude have anything to do with the fact that she comes from East Germany? Even though she operates with a softer touch, at her core she is an authoritarian.

          • She doesn’t just come from the DDR (originally from the BRD) she was an active member of the communist party there. Then she suddenly became a conservative right Cristian Democrat? She is a lying sack of doo-doo, just like ALL politicians. She cannot make a decision without figuring out what’s in it for her first, just like ALL politicians. When the Germans voted her party in, i told my German wife “Lookity here, the ultimate proof that ALL politics is a farce, your right leaning CDU just put a communist member in at it’s head. How much better could they say ‘I don’t care about you or what you think!’?”

          • Our government will welcome all these celebrities with open arms. I therefore beg Americans to stop them before they reach our borders.

        • Right you are John. Trump winning was a form of secession from the PTB’s norm and the politics of the day, it certainly took the statists quo off guard.
          True secession begins with hearts and minds. They are evolutionary events more than revolutionary. Most law respecting peaceful minded people don’t take such matters lightly nor in haste. Tolerance can be stretched very thin before it breaks. But it is the the indomitable thing that changes the issue and begins to drive it at some point… I think that is why they appear to be black swans. When all along they where organic grass roots preference cascades long in the making. Of course, those who are successful at secession, they are always the disenfranchised plurality with legitimate claims to sovereignty, never mind freedom from tyranny being an inalienable birth right, and those who are the rulers usually don’t take such motivated people seriously or with respect, so they and their movement of abolition seem to come out of nowhere to those outside it.

  32. The removal of California from the House of Representatives and the Electoral College would be a major blow against the progressive left. It might have a domino effect, where other progressive bastions like the northeast might want to follow after the loss of California voters.

    I wonder about the unintended consequences though. What happens when the new People’s Republic of California fails? Are we on the hook for that? Might still be worth it.

    • New England would be an easy one. New York is tough to figure. Upstate is more New England than New York, but the good old school Yankee type. Central New York is similar, but more depressed. The NYC area would probably prefer to be an independent city-state. That’s well within the tradition of the NYC area, which has always been an outlier since the Dutch. New Jersey and Pennsylvania would most likely stay in the Union. Parts of Ohio could join New England. The Western Reserve could peel off and join the new New England nation.

      • NYC may prefer to be an independent city-state but it’ll never happen; there’s too much money the city leeches off the rest of the state for them to walk out on their own. The rest of NYS would probably be better off without NYC but barring some black swan event the two are tied together like a pair of Siamese twins.

        (And if we’re speculating, New Jersey would probably split; the northern half is basically a colony of NYC; on the other hand, NYC itself would probably see some counter-secession. Staten Island is basically more New Jersey than NYC and might prefer to get out in the event of a breakup.)

        • I escaped from Staten a few years ago… is there some way we could force Staten to secede?
          What a waste of good swampland.

        • California is the same. There are the deep blue areas of the Bay and Los Angeles and the rest of the inland state is red. There have long been sentiments amongst the red counties to secede from the rest of the state (search “state of Jefferson”). A seceding California would not take much of California with it.

          Then there is the issue of currency, as ZMAN mentioned. Who would buy up all of its bad bond debt? China? If so, would it become their client state? Alternatively, should it default? In the latter case, who would want our currency since deadbeats can’t obviously issue money like our current Fed

          THere is a secession movement in Western Massachussetts as well. I bet Eastern Washington would love to secede from Seattle.

          • A secession vote in Northern Colorado (basically to split off from Denver and Boulder) failed a few years ago. But it got further along than a lot of people thought it would. Lots and lots of people tired of paying for empty trains in Denver with tax dollars from Ft. Morgan and Durango.

          • Native Californians know that these splits and secession rumors come along every few years or so.

            Yesterday reminded me that at at same time we heard the news on December 7, 1941, that the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor, there was also a report that California was to be split into two states. We know how both news stories came out.

      • I dread to think where that would leave us. My family is Yankees going way back, and the idiocy of its inhabitants aside, New England will always be the most beautiful place on earth to me. I think you imprint on the places you live in childhood.

        And yes, NYC would attempt to go the Singapore) Venice route. Or at least Manhattan would.

    • One immediate consequence would be that the dollar would no longer have reserve currency status. Also, it would probably affect – negatively – the demand for US Treasury notes, bills and bonds from foreign entities and even domestic demand.
      Interest rates would go much higher as the credit worthiness of US paper became questionable.

  33. Bad debt? But…but…but… blue states pay more taxes! And red states get more public spending! At least, that was the story back when Obama was president and we rednecks couldn’t handle tha realz of a black president and Texas was talking about secession. I assume Paul Krugman or whomever has run the numbers again and gotten the required answer? Eh, whatever — I’ve been asking my liberal colleagues to tell me exactly what’s so bad about secession since Obama’s inauguration. I seem to recall the answer being something along the lines of “shut up, racist”…. which seems to be the same answer now, to the question of what’s so good about secession. Huh — it’s almost as if they’re wee children who can only resort to name-calling when asked a perfectly logical question by an adult.

    • The Founders knew that America could not function like a European country. It was too diverse and they actually knew a thing or two about diversity. These were men who had ancestors on either side of the English Civil War. Federalism was the great compromise that worked until the Yankee fanatics decided it was a barrier to their destiny. Perhaps we have reached the great burning out of missionary Puritanism. It’s easy to forget that up until the 70’s, it was the Left that wanted to go around policing the world. Perhaps, their growing isolationism will extend to the domestic side and they will become champions of federalism.

        • I don’t think this is correct. New England was always in favor of federalism, until they got control of the federal government. That’s when they started scheming to end state sovereignty. Money printing really has nothing to do with it. It”s about cultural dominance.

          • I don’t think the dude knows what federalism is. Besides, it has meant different things to different people at different times.

          • Secession, by cultural marxists? Ya right. It doesn’t get more hilarious than that. The dichotomy of it is priceless. Their idea of secession is like diversity, astroturf for class civil warfare. Them Fabians don’t quit. Must be feeling their oats after Hamilton opened.
            Their fake memes get used faster than asswipe at a truckstop. Revised history should be their motto in trade. Except when it comes to the opiate of the marxist’s: Other peoples money. Then they will sing the same tune. So secession? What a joke. Never happen. They could no more bring themselves to go cold turkey off federal money than a main line booting smack junky. How would they pay for all the free shit for all their useless dupes and imported brown people? What their thinking, at least the fools who buy into the lies, is some sort of smaller gentler utopia, where it will be these isolated easier to manage zones where their’s no mean hateful white extremist dirt people with guns to stop them from having a genocide party.
            Besides, they call themselves liberal’s? Classical Liberal thinking has Abolition, not marxist “racist” abolition tripe and dissonance, but Abolition in the great classical liberal sense of Abolition of and from the State and its administrative tyranny as it’s catechism. Not ideological cry baby double think.

          • Doc Brown told Marty McFly that the flux capacitor is what makes time travel possible. So ignorance of history is liberalism’s flux capacitor — it’s what makes faith in socialism possible. Every academic fad of the past 60 years — which are now what “everybody knows” — has had that one goal in mind: to pretend that Marxism hasn’t failed, and so socialism is still possible. They’re only pretending to talk about secession, because it lets them pretend that’s what “the People” want — that is, “the People” want Progressives in charge, so that Progressives can vanguard them into the glorious socialist future that this time, somehow, some way, is right around the corner.

          • Liberalisms Flux Capacitor? Thats rich right there. The characterization fits to a Tee.
            There’s a little Mel Brooks in that.

            In other words, cultural marxism, as Einstein’s theory of insanity goes, about repeating the same thing over and over trying for different results, the theory of Schrodinger’s cat, and the axiom about the cake made of shit with butter cream frosting is still a cake made of shit?

          • If your “Culture” can legally print money, your view will be dominant. The print money portion, of the program, is a powerful tool for any belief system.

          • Z, I think you’ll find that New Hampshire wouldn’t want to be part of that secession. Despite our Congressional delegation being Democrats, we are heavily GOP and Independents. We have a GOP governor-elect, GOP majorities in the NH Senate, NH House. and Executive Council.

            We have no sales tax, no income tax, and our legislature is working to do away with the Interest & Dividends tax and to lower, if not eliminate the Business Enterprise tax.

            Our legislators are paid the princely sum of $100 per annum. We have a lot of local control over our spending and our schools.

            There is a definite shift towards more conservative governance in New Hampshire, particularly with a push to return to once every-two-years legislative sessions

            Why would we want to be grouped with the liberal bastions of Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Massachusetts? (Maine is somewhat more like New Hampshire than Massachusetts, sort of.)

      • It might help if standard texts were to treat American history with somewhat more balance, giving a bit more attention to the Southern and Middle colonies, instead of the standard Puritano-centric interpretation.

  34. Let us pray that California elects to become a “sanctuary state,” as Trump will no doubt follow through and withhold federal funds. That could set the process of California secession into motion.

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