Positive and Negative

Buckley Conservatives have tried hard to make the term “identity politics” into a epithet, but like all their other efforts, it has been a failure. The only thing David French managed to do in that piece is reveal that he has no respect for his ancestors and he remains petrified of Lefty. He and the other rent boys of the Right can beg and plead all they like, but identity politics is going to be a feature of the next generation of culture wars. As Vox Day is fond of saying, in the future, your skin will be your uniform. Wear it with pride.

What’s driving the growth of the Dissident Right, in part, is the realization among whites that the old political groupings no longer make sense in an age of identity politics. The one common theme among the people and groups now populating the movement is white identity. Some people prefer white nationalism, but that’s mostly the older crowd. There are others who simply go with pro-white. The salient feature here is whiteness and that is generally defined as European, but there is some debate about that too.

Since no one is ready to roll out the equivalent of the Brown Paper Bag Test to determine entry into the Honkyverse, debating these fine distinctions is mostly a waste of time. Like porn, most people know white when they see it. What does matter is the nature of white identity. It’s easy to generalize about what it means to be white and list off some things that are in the interest of white people, but that’s not an identity. At best that’s a list of political goals and at worst a list of complaints about the prevailing order.

Identity movements, as cultural or even political phenomenon, come in two flavors. One is positive and the other is negative. A positive identity is one that exists independently and in isolation. It is true in all times and all places. Its logic is entirely internal and only modifiable by those within it.  A negative identity, in contrast, exists only in context, usually in relation to or in opposition to something else. It is dependent on some outside thing. Its logic is external and modifiable by whatever exogenous thing upon which it depends.

Consider something like Icelandic identity. To be an Icelander means you or your ancestors were born in Iceland. If the rest of the humans on earth die off, the person born on that rock in the North Atlantic is still an Icelander. If for some reason the people within that identity group decide to change the rules, adding some morphological feature, then that will be the new definition. Even if the French protest that change, the Icelandic identity is whatever the Icelanders decide. That’s a positive identity.

Now, think about black identity in America. sub-Saharan Africans come to America and refuse to call themselves black or even African-American. They have a different identity, their own identity. Black Americans are defined by the fact that whites needed farm equipment and brought blacks over to the colonies to work the fields. Everything about the black experience is in relation to this history and its alleged effects on the present. To be black in America is to be defined entirely by your relationship to white America.

This difference in nature is why Icelanders don’t spend all their time listing their grievances against some group outside their group. Blacks, in contrast, do nothing but complain about whites. They define themselves in relation to whites, mostly in how they are treated by whites. It’s why they insist on being close to whites. Section 8 housing is popular with blacks, because it lets them mix with whites and have a daily validation of who they are as people. If whites suddenly went away, blacks would lose their identity.

These are extreme examples. A less obvious example of negative identity is Ireland. The Irish fell into the negative identity camp, defining themselves in opposition to the English, over the years of British occupation. The Irish certainly had plenty of cultural history of their own, but their subjugation by the British eventually began to shift the Irish identity from a positive and internal one, to an external and relational one. It’s why the Irish continue to obsess over British politics, despite having their own government now.

The point of all this is that what’s happening now with white identity has to avoid going down the negative road. If the alt-right, for example, is going to be a laundry list of complaints about non-whites, it can never chart its own destiny. It will always be dependent on those outside groups. On the other hand, if this thing follows the course you see with Jared Taylor, then it can chart its own course. Taylor does not waste a lot of time with grievances, beyond those related to the right to have a white identity.

Put another way, if being pro-white is only going to mean anti-black or anti-Jew or anti-Asian, then it is never going to be a useful identity group. It’s just going to be the nullification of other identity groups. That’s not a movement with a future, because it’s definition lies outside its control. It’s why feminism is curdling into a home for barren spinsters. It’s just a list of grievances. In order to avoid that fate, white identity is going to have to be a positive identity that defines itself, independent of the rest of the world.

The way to do that is as a cultural movement. The reason Progressiveism lasted for half a century, despite being at odds with reality, is it was a cultural phenomenon. Being a Progressive was not just politics. It was a lifestyle. Even today, you can tell a Lefty from a distance because they dress a certain way and act a certain way. One Lefty starts wearing fake glasses and all of them do it. Whatever white identity or pro-white comes to mean, it has to define itself internally, if it is going to be anything more than a passing fad.

Proof of this is the old white nationalist and white supremacist movements. Those old guys complaining about blacks and Jews were just that, old guys complaining about blacks and Jews. You got nothing by being a part of their thing other than endless lectures about blacks and Jews. Even racists run out of ways to keep that interesting. Avoiding the fate of those movement means steering a path down the positive road, even if it takes longer and is less clear. It has to be this way because this is probably the last shot at it.

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Clayton Barnett
3 years ago

This would dovetail nicely with your earlier post about groups self-policing. What is it about white, WestCiv we seek to, not conserve, but project? For a culture on defense dies.

Brigadon
Member
Reply to  Clayton Barnett
3 years ago

Christianity

Allan
Allan
Reply to  Brigadon
3 years ago

Which sect? Trinitarianism? Arianism? Nestorianism? Muhammadism? ALL of these are defective due to their dependence upon the Jewish superstition and the Jews’ silly doctrine of the Messiah. Furthermore, your favorite flavor of Christianity is evidently a sentimental gutter religion of rabble rousing, poverty, and communist despotism.

Read again, say, Acts 4:32 through 5:11 if you’ve forgotten the depravity of your sect’s founders, e.g. the blockhead given the nickname Peter. Then think of a better religion, if you can.

Pimpkin\\\'s nephew
Pimpkin\\\'s nephew
Reply to  Allan
3 years ago

With all due respect, Allan, you are an idiot.

Allan
Allan
Reply to  Pimpkin\\\'s nephew
3 years ago

So, Pn, you have no cognitive objection to any part of what I wrote. Thanks for clarifying that unpredictable fact.

Pimpkin\\\'s nephew
Pimpkin\\\'s nephew
Reply to  Brigadon
3 years ago

That’s part of it, perhaps most of it. Our enemies hate Christianity, as all totalitarians do, because it is the platform for living by a personal code, for feeling no guilt in the presence of yahoos, for loving liberty, for accepting death at the hands of pathetic, primitive people, for serving a Master who is not of this world. Christianity is persecuted because it is dangerous. It frees the believer from the shit-storm of “the current year”. It is a prophylactic to mind-rape.

Allan
Allan
Reply to  Pimpkin\\\'s nephew
3 years ago

Why did Simon Blockhead have Ananias and Sapphira whacked? Was he a littler closer to Jim Jones in character and mentality than Rome’s blood drinking shamans care to admit?

RabbiHighComma
RabbiHighComma
3 years ago

This is a nice collection of thoughts. I have seen much of the “positive” version of identity, and very little of the other in my interactions with other AltRighters. Sure people like to shitpost Tyrone and Merchant memes, but mostly this is to relieve the stress of being forced to support every other group, while being repaid with hate. With Blacks, most of the AltRight merely want them to live as the Icelanders do – setting their own course and being the better for it. We think well of men like Pastor Manning, Tommy Sotomayor, and the Hoteps. Men such… Read more »

Member
3 years ago

So Zman… so you’re sayin’

“You’ve got to accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
And latch on to the affirmative
Don’t mess with Mister In-Between ” !

H/T Johnny Mercer

Great post btw. I think you’ve hit the sweet spot on a delicate subject. MAGA

joe_mama
joe_mama
3 years ago

So tangential question. Where do patriotic, legally immigrated, well-assimilated foreigners fit into the Jared Taylor/Amren scheme of things?

SpongeBob
SpongeBob
Reply to  joe_mama
3 years ago

Assimilated???? That is a fallacy more often then not. True assimilation takes multiple generations, some say 3 some say 8 or more. Even then the true test is really a thought experiment. if you take that person and drop them in a virgin land, do the build an america or a little india, llittle china, little france etc. Its more than just skin color and physical location there is a biological component as well.

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  SpongeBob
3 years ago

Assimilation is a mental thing. My black African relatives buy into the American Dream 100%, and completely, overtly reject the Black American “poor me”, separatist, ghetto, “where’s mine?” thing. In fact, they look at such stuff as absolute foolishness and a hindrance to what they are trying to accomplish for themselves and their families. IOW, they want nothing to do with the Black American culture, and prefer to immerse themselves in the White American culture. The kids, too, understand that success lies in their own attitudes to life, and the occasional put down or judgement, sometimes from other Blacks, needs… Read more »

Grayman
Grayman
Reply to  Dutch
3 years ago

Wrong. “But I know someone who isnt like that” Has no application to population level behavior / traits. Assimilation is cultural and biological. Further even if a very small % can successfully assimilate the vast majority never will. Things like time preference, nepotism, social trust, etc is partially genetic. At the end of the day you or I will not make the decision. It will be made by the local community, whether they accept the person in question or not. Local communities may accept a handle full of people who don’t look like them but only if they are rabidly… Read more »

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Grayman
3 years ago

I see your point, but my point is that the initiative lies with the immigrant, his attitude and his intelligence. We are largely bystanders to that. The issue is not immigration, but who you are letting in. Our stupid immigration policy has allowed us to lose sight of what immigration can do for our culture, if it is done right. My other point is that the Black American culture is this weird, warped thing that exists nowhere else, and is looked at by many foreigners as an insane thing (which it is). The idea that we have allowed the poisonous… Read more »

Joseph Martino
Joseph Martino
Reply to  SpongeBob
3 years ago

My father was an immigrant. My mother’s parents were immigrants. It didn’t take our family even 2 generations to assimilate.

Ned2
Ned2
Member
Reply to  Joseph Martino
3 years ago

I moved to this country when I was 18. Assimilation took about a year.

Karl Hungus
Karl Hungus
Reply to  joe_mama
3 years ago

back in heir home countries

BTampa
BTampa
Reply to  joe_mama
3 years ago

If these foreigners are so wonderful, so productive, so law-abiding… it seems wrong for America to keep them. Let them go back to the lands of their heritage where they are needed to improve those places.

Sam J.
Sam J.
Reply to  BTampa
3 years ago

I the future Whites will be attacked constantly for hogging all the :diversity”.

thelocalpragmatist
thelocalpragmatist
Reply to  joe_mama
3 years ago

“So tangential question. Where do patriotic, legally immigrated, well-assimilated foreigners fit into the Jared Taylor/Amren scheme of things?”

Taylor celebrates them.

BaruchK
3 years ago

It seems to me that white identity is, by definition, negative. Meaning, it is what you’re left with when all the other stuff has been stripped away: family, tribe, religion, communal organizations, neighborhood, region, nation. I don’t think that white people at the height of their achievements primarily thought of themselves as white. They thought of themselves as British, Catholic, Southron, whatever. To put it another way, white identity is at its root a product of alienation and atomization. And also a product of Progressive race-based thinking. 150 years ago, a child in school was taught that he was a… Read more »

BaruchK
Reply to  thezman
3 years ago

Problem is that most Americans live in cities and suburbs, which have been turned into engines of alienation and atomization over the last 80 years, as documented in The Slaughter of Cities. So I don’t know how an American identity would work. The military used to rely, heavily, on the redneck identity, playing Lee Greenwood’s Proud To Be An American music video at graduation events, where that cheesedick is riding around on a tractor and greeting guys coming back from overseas, and also that awful song about We’re Gonna Kick Yer Ass, It’s The American Way. But with the complete… Read more »

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  BaruchK
3 years ago

You bring up some things that I think point directly to the fact that the alt-right really hasn’t thought this shit thru very well. Why exactly have the cities and suburbs been turned into engines of alienation? I think you may well be correct – but the question is: Why? I’ve spent quite a bit of time on gun forums – under the assumption that the people there would be conservative leaning (not progressive) – this assumption – made at a younger age – has been proven to be false on many occasions. One good example I can give of… Read more »

Severian
Reply to  Calsdad
3 years ago

Those guys kept together largely because of organizations like the Grand Army of the Republic. I know there are many veterans’ motorcycle clubs out there, a veterans’ association with large appeal like the GAR could do wonders. 19th century men were joiners; the Gilded Age was also the great age of fraternalism. Maybe we can bring that back for civilians too — after all, people still got all the stuff about the Leopard Lodge on “Happy Days,” and that show finished up in the early 1980s.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Severian
3 years ago

Before government benefits, crony corporate “insurance”, and Warren Act union rackets horned in, there were thousands of fraternal benefit societies.

Zorost
Zorost
Reply to  Calsdad
3 years ago

“…the alt-right really hasn’t thought this shit thru very well.”

Upon what do you base this assumption? Creating a genuine white identity that brings us together rather than drives us apart is a topic of some importance to the alt-right, and has been for some time. This is why we have RL meet-ups, discussions about traditionalism vs modernism, etc.

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  Zorost
3 years ago

When you talk about “white identity” – all you’re doing is being the “negative” that Zman referred to in the article. It’s just a reaction to all the ‘identity’ crap that all the other identity groups are engaging in.

Karl Hungus
Karl Hungus
Reply to  Calsdad
3 years ago

well duh

Karl Hungus
Karl Hungus
Reply to  Zorost
3 years ago

you don’t create a/the white identity. you discover it…

Al from da Nort
Al from da Nort
Reply to  Calsdad
3 years ago

Carlsdad; You bring up an interesting point re militia. The communitarian benefits you correctly infer are largely incidental, not why they were organized. The militia’s actual role in national defense has been controversial since colonial times. G. Washington deprecated the militia as nearly useless against the British regulars in pitched battle: Unreliable in showing up ‘on time, dressed to play’, unsteady under fire, unwilling/unable to stand against the standard British bayonet charge tactics, etc. So he instituted the Continental Army of necessity so he too could have (semi) reliable regular units on call day and night. This controversy naturally showed… Read more »

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  BaruchK
3 years ago

Good, tough questions, fellas.

Grayman
Grayman
Reply to  thezman
3 years ago

I’ll repost something i posted on Vox’s blog the other day on this subject, pardon the length….. Yesterday’s post “Civic Nationalism fail” and this post tied together nicely with this video by Jordon Peterson (Jordan Peterson: Jung (Depth Psychology)): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw7NvWvwVCA (good video watch the whole thing) The 3 items collectively answer some persistent points of debate amongst the alt-right, and definitely on this blog: Who is an American? While the answer to this is partially racial it is also cultural and self-defined (see 40:51 in Peterson video, with the money shot at 44:15 to 45:15). Each of us must “find… Read more »

Grayman
Grayman
Reply to  thezman
3 years ago

Zman, Again pardon the length, part II White nationalists Vs Ethno-nationalists As stated in the previous point traditional American culture has been largely erased, devalued, and demonized. Europeans do not have this problem to the same degree. Yes European nationalist cultures (French, German, Italian, etc) have seen deconstruction of culture occurring but not to the depth or extent that had been achieved in America). European cultures are still relatively intact. This dichotomy is the source of the constant confusion and battle within the Alt-right in regards to “white nationalism” versus ethno-nationalism. The Americans talking about “white nationalism” don’t have the… Read more »

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  Grayman
3 years ago

Americans have in large part taken their legacy culture – one that worked quite well – and thrown it in the trash. And they did this long before all the crazy shit you see going on these days started rearing it’s ugly head just a few short years ago. I have been arguing this out with people for probably a good 20 years now. Go try and have a conversation with the average “American” ( a white one) – about how we need to constrain the size of the Federal government, dump public education – and drastically cut the size… Read more »

Grayman
Grayman
Reply to  Calsdad
3 years ago

Agreed, that is why the next version of American culture will be earned through blood. The decision has already been made even if we cant understand it or see the sequence of events. The events surrounding the break up of the US in a civil conflict will forge the foundation of the next “American” culture. Who knows what it will be named, but it wont span the continent and will probably be some version of ethno-centric.

BTampa
BTampa
Reply to  thezman
3 years ago

The reason white identity wasn’t taught 150 years ago is because there is no need to teach it in lands that are 90%+ white. White is what “is” in that circumstance. That leaves the room to teach nationality, Euro-tribe, Southerner, etc.

Today, with the influx of endless non-whites, we don’t have the luxury of those smaller distinctions. We are one – or we end up as none.

Clayton Barnett
Reply to  thezman
3 years ago

And, around the margins, identities can change: I was raised in the Mountain West by a son of Texas dirt farmers and a daughter of fallen Southern aristocracy (I’m connected to the Hood, Stephens, and Brazeale families); my family in this land predates the Republic. I was raised to despise Easterners in general and Northerners in particular, white or not. Now in my fifth decade, I can move among them, but I ‘know’ they and I don’t belong together. To anyone with a good grounding in personal, familial, and national history, there are stumbling blocks to a ‘vanilla’ white nationalist… Read more »

Grayman
Grayman
Reply to  BaruchK
3 years ago

BaruchK ” Those Jews who’ve had everything that makes them Jewish stripped away from them, before they were born, are white. Sadly.” Perhaps its a case of “sample error” but i know many jews who would fit your definition of “stripped away” at a high level, but if you really dive deep about their identity they identify as jew before “American”. And thats expected, the left has successfully deconstructed traditional American culture to the point that little is left except for the occasional “leave it to beaver” re-run. There is no going back to “the days of yore”. that culture… Read more »

BaruchK
Reply to  Grayman
3 years ago

They identify as Jew before American for the same reason that everyone is Irish on St. Patrick’s Day, that white people will tell you they’re part Indian (that alleged great-grandmother,) that black people will tell you they’re Cherokee (same thing.) America worships the exotic and the standard American thing is no longer cool unless you live in some exotic American subculture (the boonies) with its own unique codes (deer hunting, dipping Cope, etc.) Same thing happened with the Roman Empire-everyone wanted something exotic. It could be Syrian mystery religions, it could be rusticism, whatever-anything but plain old Roman. What does… Read more »

BTampa
BTampa
Reply to  BaruchK
3 years ago

Jews are an ethnic group, a race, a religion, or nothing at all – by turns. It all depends on what they think will benefit them most in a given situation.

BaruchK
Reply to  BTampa
3 years ago

Despite the bad faith in which you make your comment, I’ll give you a genuine answer.

We precede the split between race, ethnicity and religion. When we came into being, these were all the same thing.

Today, we’re definitely not a race-there are Jews of all colors. And any convert is as much a Jew as any born Jew.

A good way to model it is that we are a very large extended family.

BTampa
BTampa
Reply to  BaruchK
3 years ago

If it is “bad faith” to tell the truth about Jews, so be it. Your lie about converts is just that. Jews famously do not seek converts so the few you might point to are statistically insignificant. You are indeed an “extended family” just not mine and not one that can ever be trusted. There’s a reason Jews have been driven out of every civilized country at one time or another and the reason is… Jews. Just so you know, I didn’t always believe this. I was brainwashed for a while with the popular protestant belief that we should always… Read more »

BaruchK
Reply to  BTampa
3 years ago

We do not seek converts, and yet we have a steady stream of them, and always have-at the height of persecution under the Roman Empire, for instance, there were plenty of converts from the Roman elites. What does that tell you? The reason we’ve been driven out of a bunch of countries is the same exact reason that Christians have been driven out of most places in the Muslim world and reduced to persecuted minorities where they have not been driven out. Where are the non-Christians of Western Europe, by the way? You are absolutely right-I am not in your… Read more »

BTampa
BTampa
Reply to  BaruchK
3 years ago

And now you compare Christianity to Islam. That is how Jews really feel and it is evidenced in your unending war on whites. Your filthy “Holocaust Museums” dot our countryside to perpetuate your endless victimhood. Your filth spews out of Hollywood on a daily basis. Your lies are repeated in our “News” organizations 24-7. And you promote the importation of Muslims in mass numbers, knowing exactly where that will lead. No, Christians do none of those things in countries where they are or have been persecuted. The day is coming when you will have a choice to make. I have… Read more »

BaruchK
Reply to  BTampa
3 years ago

Okay there, buddy. Nice chatting to you. Might want to wipe the froth off.

BTampa
BTampa
Reply to  BaruchK
3 years ago

It was interesting taking the temperature of the commenters here. Be happy for now. Most are still following the training of our “Greatest Allies.”

Time is running out though.

sirlancelot
sirlancelot
3 years ago

A clean divorce from black america would be best. No more welfare , section 8, affirmitive action, etc.

Keep our hard earned money to have bigger families and instill pride for all the accomplishments we have made.

The alternative is to watch the savages out breed us and lay waste to all the white man has ever built.

Grayman
Grayman
Reply to  sirlancelot
3 years ago

That doesn’t work in reality. The black population cannot effectively compete against whites economically at the population level ( from IQ to violence to time preference to trust level). As a result you end up with either a permanent underclass sin a mixed race society or you end up with Ethiopia next door to a Germany. Neither of those is stable and both end in conflict. A strong ethno-nationalism for both groups is the better solution, even then there is the geographical challenge that there would be major pressure for the blacks to move into the white territories and of… Read more »

Zorost
Zorost
Reply to  Grayman
3 years ago

Most in the alt-right would except a black/white partition. I doubt if anyone thinks it would be anything but a temporary situation, as Blacktopia would inevitably degenerate into cannibalism and anarchy. This would leave it open to reconquest.

james wilson
james wilson
Reply to  Grayman
3 years ago

You are not recognizing that our unenlightened ancestors had things figured out. But we must reinvent the wheel instead. Segregation kept a place for blacks that they could identify with and sort out. There was a black middle class that served blacks, not a black middle class that served itself to AA government jobs. Their leaders were leaders, not grifters. There was predictability and comfort for the individual and the group. This was home. Now they have no home, and neither does anyone else. Try comparing the legacy greatness of black society from 1900-1950 with the desert of 1960 to… Read more »

Karl Hungus
Karl Hungus
Reply to  Grayman
3 years ago

or you end up with camps and trains…

Member
3 years ago

God help us, it just sound like nice racism; just a lighter weight sin. Racial identity politics of any kind cannot end well. Morals are a way of living life, not a outcome of birth race. If politics home in in this path the country and maybe civilization is lost as we are veering from a better path. I have much more admiration for Booker T. Washington than I do Ted Nugent, and both are patriotic Americans, but Ted and I are the same race, as is Hitler… Race identity does not have worth in evaluating character. I’m keeping in… Read more »

Rick Johnsmeyer
Rick Johnsmeyer
Reply to  TuNeCedeMalisPJS
3 years ago

“Racial identity politics” seems to be an EMERGENT phenomenon, not one that we select from a menu of equally-viable outcomes. In other words, it is a natural function of the social stresses and conflicts created by the collision of disparate groups competing for resources and power. Different groups have different group tendencies and will tend to create different sorts of societies which reflect different group preferences. Some of these sorts of societies are outright offensive to certain groups, or at least unlivable (hence, the “white flight” out of urban America in the 50’s and 60’s). You may not like that… Read more »

james wilson
james wilson
Reply to  TuNeCedeMalisPJS
3 years ago

We tried ignoring it, and God didn’t help us. Booker T. Washington would tell you to get your head out of your ass.

RabbiHighComma
RabbiHighComma
Reply to  TuNeCedeMalisPJS
3 years ago

Today noted dindu Joy Reid of MSNBC advised the Democratic Party to give up on Whites, who’s interests, she deems, are antithetical to the interests of Blacks and other “minorities” – i.e. we’re the enemy (of course, I’m sure she still expects us to pay for Tyronika’s 8 churrins, SNAP, Section 8, and sail foams) So no. Whites are no longer willing to a unilateral disarmament. In fact, let’s get it on. I like our chances. This is the future you asked for, and by god you gonna get it good and hard. Sorry Shlomo got to rubbing those mitts… Read more »

krbu
krbu
Reply to  RabbiHighComma
3 years ago

I figured out what churrins means … but sail foams? Huh?

Shrugger
Shrugger
Reply to  krbu
3 years ago

Cellphones, I think

Bob
Bob
Reply to  krbu
3 years ago

“Sail foams” = “cell phones” in ghetto patois.

BTampa
BTampa
Reply to  krbu
3 years ago

Took me a minute… cell phones.

guest
guest
Reply to  TuNeCedeMalisPJS
3 years ago

It’s not us who started identity politics, the other side did, but now that the game is on, don’t blame team honky for playing.

Teapartydoc
Member
Reply to  TuNeCedeMalisPJS
3 years ago

Said like a perfect example of a white man.

BTampa
BTampa
Reply to  TuNeCedeMalisPJS
3 years ago

You keep playing the tolerance game while every other group that you’re tolerating plans and works for your destruction. Who do you think will win?

Zorost
Zorost
Reply to  TuNeCedeMalisPJS
3 years ago

Worthless hippie, go back to Woodstock.
Everyone except whites has already tribed up, if we don’t we will not survive. We are already far behind the power curve; we have some catching up to do.

Rod1963
Rod1963
3 years ago

Spot on Psychology/ goal planning 101.As Z stated It’s not enough to complain about something, you need to have a positive goal to have something to look forward to. To me it means building a network/organization to support us. Something like the NRA as Zman pointed out for whites. Ethnics already have their own variant. Mexicans have La Raza, Jews have the ADL/ACLU, Blacks have the NAACP and government agencies at their beck and call.. This organization(dues paying, don’t expect a sugar daddy to show up – they saw what Trump has to put up with so it’s not happening)… Read more »

Joey Junger
Joey Junger
3 years ago

Positive white identity shouldn’t be hard to establish. The result of what happens when Europeans are around other Europeans for centuries is all around us. Even Asians and Jews obsessed with status teach their kids to play Bach and Chopin and jockey to get their kids into ivies and European public schools established for and by Europeans. And while European cities are crowded with Third World scum, all that beautiful architecture, the castles and churches, are still there. Aesthetic beauty mocks and enrages nonwhites (which is why I agree with the feminists that rape is about power as much as… Read more »

Severian
3 years ago

Even inside the “positive” camp, though, you must avoid the sperg-out. There are some nice “white identity” models that would work just fine, if folks weren’t such godawful dorks about it. “Neo-Confederate,” for instance — take a look at the CSA constitution and tell me they didn’t fix most of the problems of the original. But: Say any of those words, and immediately you’ve got 57 neckbeareded fellows yelling at you about Stonewall Jackson and the precise diameters of cannon balls.

Teapartydoc
Member
Reply to  Severian
3 years ago

Purity spirals are bad. They are actually a form of negative identity that Z seems to be warning about. What he is saying is that being white in the future is going to mean participating in white culture and overlooking slight differences in the way people look, not having the 23 And Me police showing up at family gatherings to see who qualifies to say grace. I have mentioned living in Rhodesia. Many people have their own ideas as to how that culture worked. It was not the sort of white supremacist dictatorship that many assume. There was no apartheid.… Read more »

Severian
Reply to  Teapartydoc
3 years ago

I’m by no means an expert on Rhodesia, but I’m certain the future Chinese historians chronicling the fall of the West will rehabilitate Ian Smith.

Dan Kurt
Member
Reply to  Severian
3 years ago

@ Severian “will rehabilitate Ian Smith.”

Ian Smith gave up at the end, rolled over. He did not go down fighting. There is nothing to rehabilitate; one doesn’t rehabilitate a Quisling.

Dan Kurt

Teapartydoc
Member
Reply to  Dan Kurt
3 years ago

Smith had nowhere to go. With Portugal out of Mozambique South Africa was his only lifeline and they wanted the monkey off of their backs, so they forced him to negotiate. And in doing so set themselves up for failure in the near future.

Dan Kurt
Member
Reply to  Teapartydoc
3 years ago

Are you a Rhodesian? If so you may want to read the following articles:
http://www.arthurkemp.com/2012/05/intelligence-of-white-rhodesians.html
http://www.unz.org/Pub/MankindQuarterly-1967apr-00207
Lesson: IQ is not sufficient.
Dan Kurt

BTP
Member
3 years ago

But isn’t that the problem? A very large component of the white identity movement is defined merely in opposition to the globalist agenda. But the practicality of finding positive meaning is undermined by certain facts: the EU is both globalist and European. If the EU is not a union of white people, what would a union of white people look like?

BTampa
BTampa
Reply to  BTP
3 years ago

Perhaps we are going to have to clean the current house of traitors, cucks, and other refuse… before we can build a new one.

Calsdad
Calsdad
3 years ago

I think part of the problem you’re going to have here is that the Alt-right / white identity stuff seems to be born from and as a reaction to all the identity politics crap that has been spewing from the left. In that I include all the black power groups, all the LGBT whatever stuff, feminism, – etc. If “white” people are going to get their shit together – they’re going to have to come to grips with some really big problems that are by and large of their own making. Come up with the answer for why whites are… Read more »

Grayman
Grayman
Reply to  Calsdad
3 years ago

Why aren’t whites breeding? Thats easy, western whites are a low time preference high trust, low nepotism group. As such they generally breed when they feel secure in the long term availability of the resources they think they need to raise their children. Modern society and modern economics put the kibosh on that big time. The gig economy, the contractor economy, not working anywhere for more than 3 to 5 years, HUD programs moving diversity into any neighborhoods that are too WHITE, Divorce being made so easy and encouraged such that its easier then going to the dentists! All of… Read more »

Grayman
Grayman
Reply to  Calsdad
3 years ago

“I see constant criticism of Germany as being completely feminized and reaping the rewards of Islamization. Again – what do you expect when you take the most virile males – TWICE in the course of 35 years – and dump their dead bodies in a ditch? If the assertions that genetics are destiny that see coming from the alt-right have any truth to them – then surely killing off all the males that would have driven society is going to have an effect. I don’t see the alt right REALLY dealing with some of these issues. They seem to be… Read more »

Lorenzo
Lorenzo
Reply to  Grayman
3 years ago

Also, it didn’t help the Germans that they drove out or killed all their smart people in the 1930s and 1940s.

Anonymous White Male
Anonymous White Male
Reply to  Lorenzo
3 years ago

Apparently, you only define “smart people” as jews. Did Werner Heisenberg leave? Did Werner von Braun?

Lorenzo
Lorenzo
Reply to  Anonymous White Male
3 years ago

Was it smart for anybody to stay in Nazi Germany? Just curious.

Anonymous White Male
Anonymous White Male
Reply to  Lorenzo
3 years ago

Is it smart for anyone to stay in America or Western Europe today? There are those that think their ancestral homelands are worth saving. Look at the Boers in South Africa.

karl hungus
karl hungus
Reply to  Anonymous White Male
3 years ago

excellent reply.

karl hungus
karl hungus
Reply to  Lorenzo
3 years ago

nice deflection, i am sure no one else noticed it.

RabbiHighComma
RabbiHighComma
Reply to  Lorenzo
3 years ago

Lorenzo provides an excellent example of jewish psychology here. 1. It’s important to the jew that he makes it clear that the tribe is superior to the goyim. 2. The goyim must be informed that jews have grievances that must be addressed, and the goyim should feel shame. 3. When the jew’s veiled insults are deciphered and directly addressed, the jew deflects vs. defending his position. It’s like clockwork when you pay attention. One of the more interesting points to note regarding jewish behavior on the right is that when jews are obstensibly defending the right, it is invariably from… Read more »

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  Grayman
3 years ago

If the alt right is going to claim that it’s an issue – and that there are inherent genetic differences between the races – but they’re not going actually tackle some of these issues but instead talking about all the “racist” stuff that the left is accusing them of ……

Then all they’re really doing is engaging in fantasy.

Zorost
Zorost
Reply to  Calsdad
3 years ago

“I don’t see the alt right REALLY dealing with some of these issues.” The only issues you mention would require a time machine and a way to influence the governments involved to not fight in both world wars. I have a lot of faith in the Alt-Rights ability to win, but I think this is beyond our capability. “The alt right is going to have to start dealing with…” No we don’t. We aren’t a political movement. We discuss those things, often to the point of exhaustion, but we realize those things aren’t currently answerable and mainly just lead to… Read more »

Teapartydoc
Member
3 years ago

This means shoring up old family traditions, like getting together at Christmas, Thanksgiving, and Easter. Praying at family meals, etc. Dressing conservatively. Being on time at work. Being polite to everyone but leftists who get in your face, even those of other races. Being magnanimous. We are racial nobility. Let’s act like it.

tamaleman
tamaleman
Reply to  Teapartydoc
3 years ago

This.

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Teapartydoc
3 years ago

It’s an open club. Everyone’s invited. But if you can’t carry your weight or play by the rules, get out. It’s not very complicated at all.

Allan
Allan
Reply to  Teapartydoc
3 years ago

No “racial nobility” ever worshipped a fool who was so narcissistic that he believed that he was his own god.

Desdichado
Desdichado
3 years ago

The only list of grievances most white identitarians have with other groups is “why are they here in our countries in the first place?”

Member
3 years ago

National Lampoon had a piece back in the early 80’s titled something like “Celebrate the Fifth White History Millennium.” Ahead of its time, it seems. We tolerate identity groups like Amish and Mennonites because they follow the meta-rules of the meta-society we call America — at least at the interfaces. We embraced and assimilated identity groups like the Irish and Italians because they — over several generations — came to follow the meta rules completely. We have some friction with the Jews, because they seem to accept some of the meta rules and to bend or even change others to… Read more »

Eclectic Esoteric
Eclectic Esoteric
3 years ago

Birds flying in formation don’t need instruction to do so. Caucasians are evolving in a hostile political environment and will continue to be masters of their own fate. The opposition that bites the hand that feeds it won’t fare as well.

SWRichmond
SWRichmond
3 years ago

I still think of this in terms of “which society has brought mankind the greatest benefits in terms of quality of life?”. While there is much room for finger-pointing, it is western civilization which has done this. It is also Western civilization which has lost its way, and it is its own openness and tolerance for other worldviews which has made this stumbling possible. Along comes a competing civilization (Islam) which knows exactly what it wants and how to get it, and which is eager to do so, and eager to use Western tolerance against the West, and the West… Read more »

Karl Hungus
Karl Hungus
3 years ago

well luckily the white race has a few important accomplishments to our credit 🙂 seems like the left is very anti-jew and they can do the dirty work of reducing jewish influence on the culture. there are plenty of real problems in the middle and lower class white communities; get those fixed up and we are well on our way to the positive identity ideal 🙂

Cloudswrest
Cloudswrest
3 years ago

Thought you might like the graph posted in the linked essay by The Audacious Epigone interesting. They aren’t calling Generation Z “Generation Zyklon” for nothing. http://anepigone.blogspot.com/2017/08/gen-z-is-wests-last-great-hope.html

The White Knight
The White Knight
3 years ago

Great article! Like Jordan Peterson says: focus on keeping your House in order. Have a job and get good at it. Make your neighbors your friends and turn some into confidants. Keep your tool shed organized. Eat healthy food and exercise. When your House is in order, expand your ambitions. My father has a barn in the back. My mission over the next two weeks is “make the barn great again!”

Make your back yards great again, fellow patriots and our country will be the greater for it!

Yours in Liberty,

JD

Centurion_Cornelius
Centurion_Cornelius
Reply to  The White Knight
3 years ago

Roger THAT, White Knight! After 70 Summer solar spins here on God’s Great Green Earth. I am concluding THAT is about all I can do!

It’s like what the great Southern Lawyer of Watergate fame, Sam Irvin, said about his clients: “The dumb ones WON’T take my advice, and the clever ones DON’T NEED my advice!”

LOCAL–LOCAL–LOCAL. A basis of the concept of “subsidiarity.”

AMEN!

Member
3 years ago

I am part of the culture that won two World Wars and a Cold War. I am part of the culture that said we could and would go to the Moon and then we did. The culture that put a personal computer into every home (and pocket) that wanted one.
The culture that fed the world.
The culture that had safe streets and good schools.
The culture that decided slavery was a wrong and ended it…
we just didn’t know how to clean up the mess that was left over.
And that one failure may be the end of us.

Grayman
Grayman
Reply to  John the River
3 years ago

We did know how to clean it up.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8319858/Abraham-Lincoln-wanted-to-deport-slaves-to-new-colonies.html

The Process was interrupted and forgotten about. The blacks were simply pawns in the civil war niether Lincoln nor the North in general wanted them or really cared about them, they were simply political cache.

In all reality the same solution is modern day is probably the only stable solution and that is physical separation. The same goes for the massive Hispanic population….. diversity + proximity = war.

TomA
TomA
3 years ago

All races within the species H. sapiens have the same genesis, and the race branching largely occurred as a result of adaptation to different environments. Caucasians acquired lighter skin pigmentation as a result of migration into the northern latitudes. The higher IQ differential also occurred as an adaptation to extreme seasonal variation and the need to innovate in order to survive harsh winters and the attendant food scarcity.

Karl Hungus
Karl Hungus
Reply to  TomA
3 years ago

will the point of this comment be posted later?

Ryan
Ryan
3 years ago

We have progressivism to help find our positive identity. They denounce fat shaming. The positive virtue is beauty. They denounce slut shaming. The positive virtue is love, marriage and family.

Social welfare spending: Charity.

Dependence on government: Rugged individualism.

Invade the world:

They were not easily moved,
They were icy — willing to wait
Till every count should be proved,
Ere the Saxon began to hate.

Primi Pilus
Primi Pilus
3 years ago

Agree wholly with the premise on the necessity of a positive approach. Essential, as you state. However, to those who posit that non-whites would be excluded, I would offer two thoughts: 1.) Women — It’s tremendously hard to find native born females who are not wholly coopted by pollitical correctness, or who are not to some degree ensnared by this human characteristic we call the left. Popular culture, academia and our political sphere are completely given over to delusional belief relative to women and society, and many largely reject traditional limits, roles and beliefs — rational belief among them is… Read more »

Member
3 years ago

I don’t know. I think “white identity” is one of those situations where we get dragged into using the prog’s lexicon to define the world. We use phrases like “Middle Class” all the time in this country. Although the term existed before he wrote about it, our modern usage of it stems from Karl Marx for example. Maybe it’s just a phrase that reflects the world as it is, but it has always been a way of saying “not the Ruling Class”. The idea of white identity largely flows as a reaction to the various other cultures establishing their own… Read more »

Member
Reply to  thezman
3 years ago

There’s no way to circle the square around whatever “white” means. It will always devolve into white nationalism and white supremacy. Like you wrote earlier this year about the French, pretty soon everybody who thought they were on the same side starts purging those with insufficient fealty to the cause. The path currently staked out by Trump strikes me as the most realistic path the country is headed down. A basically “American” party which isn’t so much the old “We have to get back to constitutional principles” tropes as it is “Look, if you live inside the borders of this… Read more »

Allan
Allan
Reply to  hokkoda
3 years ago

True, hokkoda, white identity politics reaches its pinnacle in the brutishness of supremacism, chauvinism, etc. A healthy people would have no use for so shallow an identity, and we should condemn “white identity” as basically nihilistic.

james wilson
james wilson
3 years ago

Due to repeated mention I finally linked for the first time to Richard Spenser. His flaws were far greater than I was prepared for, and I do not speak to his primary goal of white nationalism. He is center-left, and since center is also left, his vision holds no gravity for me. All things not explicitly right wing lead to the same barren place.

Rhino
Rhino
Reply to  james wilson
3 years ago

What is your definition of “right wing”? To me it sounds like your definition of right wing means some sort of adherence to the principles of the heritage foundation.

To me right wing mans that you have fundamentally rejected egalitarianism.

james wilson
james wilson
Reply to  Rhino
3 years ago

You can’t be right wing and be a fan of socialist health care, for starters.

Karl Hungus
Karl Hungus
Reply to  james wilson
3 years ago

why not?

james wilson
james wilson
Reply to  Karl Hungus
3 years ago

A white nationalist may be right wing or left wing but socialism is left wing root and branch.

Haxo Angmark
3 years ago

prop nation strikes again. Slavs, Greco-Iberians, Anglo-Saxons, and Nordics are genetic Whites. Jews and their murderous anti-White hirelings – Blacks, Mestizos, Muslims, and Asiatics (see also: Jews) – are not White. WE, not they, created all the splendors of Western Civilization which THEY are now destroying. And that’s all the “positive” identity we need.

and anyone who cannot Name the Jew – JT, for instance – is peddling a Lie.

alt-Right: enemies to the Right.

hardRight: no enemies to the Right.

Zorost
Zorost
Reply to  Haxo Angmark
3 years ago

Good summary. Strange how even Zman seems to think whites need to invent a culture, as if we’ve never had one before.

Sam J.
Sam J.
3 years ago

You’re completely wrong about this because the White Man is truly evil. Evil to the core. How do I know this? They’re hogging all the “diversity”. The White Man will steal all the “diversity” on planet Earth and lord it over everyone else on the planet.

Truly evil.

It is time for the non-diverse to start attacking the White Man for hogging all the “diversity?.

Severian
3 years ago

Here’s what I’d do: Roll like the Thule Society in Weimar Germany (they’re gonna call us Nazis anyway). Get an IT guy to come up with a secure mailing list, TOR and whatnot (I’m not a tech guy) to get in contact with each other. Then, set up local branches, fraternal style. Call it something innocuous — a “historical/cultural debating society,” maybe. But make sure it has grades and ranks and all that Masonic mumbo-jumbo to keep out entryists (“sorry, Moonbeam, you can’t propose a Code of Conduct until you’re an 19th-level poobah”) and FBI informants. Have the local societies… Read more »

Al from da Nort
Al from da Nort
Reply to  Severian
3 years ago

Lawfare counterattack might be a useful organizing principle. Of course, one would need to pick a single head of the Prog hydra of anti-American lawfare to go after under the basic principles of strategy as formulated by Alinsky (‘Pick a target…’).

Now, there’s no reason that one group couldn’t pick one of the Prog hydra’s heads and another group another head.

Karl Hungus
Karl Hungus
Reply to  Severian
3 years ago

the first rule of Fight Club…

hosswire
hosswire
3 years ago

This shouldn’t be so difficult. It’s only difficult because we are trying to think of a single solution for the entire U.S.. That’s not necessary. Some people like to separate. Some people like to mix. And some people like to separate sometimes and mix other times. In a nation the size of a continent, there should be room for everyone to do whichever they feel like doing. And the best part of it is that all the government needs to do is — nothing. The federal government needs to simply stay out of racial matters entirely. End affirmative action. End… Read more »

Zorost
Zorost
Reply to  hosswire
3 years ago

And then we invent unicorns that piss gasoline and shit gold so all our other problems are solved too!

Why would coloreds ever vote for a gov that doesn’t promise them free shit? Why would a politician ever vote for a program that ruins his chances of getting re-elected?

This is why there is only a single solution, separation between pro-white whites and everyone else.

J Clivas
3 years ago

Racism and interracialism — as peddled by Hollywood — are on a par with each other. One is as bad as the other.

Member
3 years ago

It seems to me that that terms “positive” and “negative” are rather confusing in this context, though it may be that you like the ambiguity (the former sounding like “having a good attitude”, “standing for something specific”, the latter sounding like “having a bad attitude”, “just being the opposite of something else”). Better terms would be “absolute” and “relative” as descriptors, but to cite your friend John Rivers, “pos” and “neg” might be better meme-wise.

trackback
3 years ago

[…] As the Z Man pointed out, […]

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2 years ago

[…] Z Man pondered a while back upon the idea of negative and positive identity. Negative identity was a kind of worldview shaped on what you held opposition to.  A positive […]

trackback
2 years ago

[…] Z Man pondered a while back upon the idea of negative and positive identity. Negative identity was a kind of worldview shaped on what you held opposition to.  A positive […]

trackback
2 years ago

[…] Z Man pondered a while back upon the idea of negative and positive identity. Negative identity was a kind of worldview shaped on what you held opposition to.  A positive […]