Positive and Negative

Buckley Conservatives have tried hard to make the term “identity politics” into a epithet, but like all their other efforts, it has been a failure. The only thing David French managed to do in that piece is reveal that he has no respect for his ancestors and he remains petrified of the Left. He and the other wimps of the Right can beg and plead all they like, but identity politics is going to be a feature of the next generation of culture wars, probably the focus.

What’s driving the growth of the Dissident Right, in part, is the realization among whites that the old political groupings no longer make sense in an age of identity politics. The one common theme among the people and groups now populating the movement is white identity. Some people prefer white nationalism, but that’s mostly the older crowd. There are others who simply go with pro-white. The salient feature here is whiteness and that is generally defined as European, but there is some debate about that too.

Since no one is ready to roll out the equivalent of the Brown Paper Bag Test to determine entry into the Honkyverse, debating these fine distinctions is mostly a waste of time. Like porn, most people know white when they see it. What does matter is the nature of white identity. It’s easy to generalize about what it means to be white and list off some things that are in the interest of white people, but that’s not an identity. At best that’s a list of political goals and at worst a list of complaints about the prevailing order.

Identity movements, as cultural or even political phenomenon, come in two flavors. One is positive and the other is negative. A positive identity is one that exists independently and in isolation. It is true in all times and all places. Its logic is entirely internal and only modifiable by those within it.  A negative identity, in contrast, exists only in context, usually in relation to or in opposition to something else. It is dependent on some outside thing. Its logic is external and modifiable by whatever exogenous thing upon which it depends.

Consider something like Icelandic identity. To be an Icelander means you or your ancestors were born in Iceland. If the rest of the humans on earth die off, the person born on that rock in the North Atlantic is still an Icelander. If for some reason the people within that identity group decide to change the rules, adding some morphological feature, then that will be the new definition. Even if the French protest that change, the Icelandic identity is whatever the Icelanders decide. That’s a positive identity.

Now, think about black identity in America. sub-Saharan Africans come to America and refuse to call themselves black or even African-American. They have a different identity, their own identity. Black Americans are defined by the fact that whites needed farm equipment and brought blacks over to the colonies to work the fields. Everything about the black experience is in relation to this history and its alleged effects on the present. To be black in America is to be defined entirely by your relationship to white America.

This difference in nature is why Icelanders don’t spend all their time listing their grievances against some group outside their group. Blacks, in contrast, do nothing but complain about whites. They define themselves in relation to whites, mostly in how they are treated by whites. It’s why they insist on being close to whites. Section 8 housing is popular with blacks, because it lets them mix with whites and have a daily validation of who they are as people. If whites suddenly went away, blacks would lose their identity.

These are extreme examples. A less obvious example of negative identity is Ireland. The Irish fell into the negative identity camp, defining themselves in opposition to the English, over the years of British occupation. The Irish certainly had plenty of cultural history of their own, but their subjugation by the British eventually began to shift the Irish identity from a positive and internal one, to an external and relational one. It’s why the Irish continue to obsess over British politics, despite having their own government now.

The point of all this is that what’s happening now with white identity has to avoid going down the negative road. If the alt-right, for example, is going to be a laundry list of complaints about non-whites, it can never chart its own destiny. It will always be dependent on those outside groups. On the other hand, if this thing follows the course you see with Jared Taylor, then it can chart its own course. Taylor does not waste a lot of time with grievances, beyond those related to the right to have a white identity.

Put another way, if being pro-white is only going to mean anti-black or anti-Jew or anti-Asian, then it is never going to be a useful identity group. It’s just going to be the nullification of other identity groups. That’s not a movement with a future, because it’s definition lies outside its control. It’s why feminism is curdling into a home for barren spinsters. It’s just a list of grievances. In order to avoid that fate, white identity is going to have to be a positive identity that defines itself, independent of the rest of the world.

The way to do that is as a cultural movement. The reason Progressiveism lasted for half a century, despite being at odds with reality, is it was a cultural phenomenon. Being a Progressive was not just politics. It was a lifestyle. Even today, you can tell a Lefty from a distance because they dress a certain way and act a certain way. One Lefty starts wearing fake glasses and all of them do it. Whatever white identity or pro-white comes to mean, it has to define itself internally, if it is going to be anything more than a passing fad.

Proof of this is the old white nationalist and white supremacist movements. Those old guys complaining about blacks and Jews were just that, old guys complaining about blacks and Jews. You got nothing by being a part of their thing other than endless lectures about blacks and Jews. Even racists run out of ways to keep that interesting. Avoiding the fate of those movement means steering a path down the positive road, even if it takes longer and is less clear. It has to be this way because this is probably the last shot at it.

128 thoughts on “Positive and Negative

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  5. It seems to me that that terms “positive” and “negative” are rather confusing in this context, though it may be that you like the ambiguity (the former sounding like “having a good attitude”, “standing for something specific”, the latter sounding like “having a bad attitude”, “just being the opposite of something else”). Better terms would be “absolute” and “relative” as descriptors, but to cite your friend John Rivers, “pos” and “neg” might be better meme-wise.

    • I settled on those as what I kept thinking about is the concepts of positive and negative liberty. I like the idea of two things seeming to be the same, but of vastly differing natures. Still, point taken. They are not the best labels. I’m thinking both sides of that Gemini could be fleshed out more. Maybe if I’m hearing the muse, I can do a riff off the Argonautica. “Call Me Orpheus” has a ring to it as a title.

  6. This shouldn’t be so difficult. It’s only difficult because we are trying to think of a single solution for the entire U.S.. That’s not necessary.
    Some people like to separate. Some people like to mix. And some people like to separate sometimes and mix other times. In a nation the size of a continent, there should be room for everyone to do whichever they feel like doing.
    And the best part of it is that all the government needs to do is — nothing.
    The federal government needs to simply stay out of racial matters entirely. End affirmative action. End civil rights enforcement based on race, sex, creed, and the whole list of categories it now covers. End forced integration of workplaces, schools, neighborhoods, cities, counties, states and nations. To put it another way, restore freedom of association, and its necessary counterpart, freedom of disassociation.
    Let employers hire or not hire whoever they want. Let businesses serve or not serve whoever they want. Let apartments, neighborhoods & towns & counties prohibit rentals & sales to whoever they want. Let schools admit who they want. Let people say exactly why they made those decisions, honestly, without legal repercussions.
    I’m sure that some localities & institutions will opt to double down on diversity & goodthink. Great. Others will decide to exclusively deal with whichever demographic they feel benefits them best. That’s fine too. As long as nobody is trapped in one when they’d rather be in the other, I don’t see the problem.
    Consider the school cafeteria: Some tables are all one race. Others are all another. Still others are mixed. No teachers are running around forcing anyone to eat at a table they don’t want to. No principals are forcing segregated tables to open their chairs. And for the most part, peace reigns.
    Let the Big Sort begin.

    • And then we invent unicorns that piss gasoline and shit gold so all our other problems are solved too!

      Why would coloreds ever vote for a gov that doesn’t promise them free shit? Why would a politician ever vote for a program that ruins his chances of getting re-elected?

      This is why there is only a single solution, separation between pro-white whites and everyone else.

  7. Here’s what I’d do: Roll like the Thule Society in Weimar Germany (they’re gonna call us Nazis anyway). Get an IT guy to come up with a secure mailing list, TOR and whatnot (I’m not a tech guy) to get in contact with each other. Then, set up local branches, fraternal style. Call it something innocuous — a “historical/cultural debating society,” maybe. But make sure it has grades and ranks and all that Masonic mumbo-jumbo to keep out entryists (“sorry, Moonbeam, you can’t propose a Code of Conduct until you’re an 19th-level poobah”) and FBI informants. Have the local societies hammer out the identity stuff that best fits their circumstances. Then…. agitate. Boycotts and letters to the editor are useless nationally, but they can do real damage in towns and even smaller cities. Infiltrate Neo-Thulians into places of influence, especially school boards, Fraternal Orders of Police, the Sanitation Department (a garbage strike would bring most metros to their knees; this could be the go-to weapon in college towns, for instance). Go 4GW on it until proof of concept is established; then worry about national congresses and whatnot to hammer out the party platform. This would mean the Little Rock, AR Neo-Thule Society might look way different than the Providence, RI chapter, but so what? Nothing succeeds like success, and it’s amazing how fast differences on who is or isn’t “white” (Jews? Italians?) get papered over when you’re winning. When we’re tired of winning, then we can fall on each other like the pack of rabid dogs we really are.

    • Lawfare counterattack might be a useful organizing principle. Of course, one would need to pick a single head of the Prog hydra of anti-American lawfare to go after under the basic principles of strategy as formulated by Alinsky (‘Pick a target…’).

      Now, there’s no reason that one group couldn’t pick one of the Prog hydra’s heads and another group another head.

  8. You’re completely wrong about this because the White Man is truly evil. Evil to the core. How do I know this? They’re hogging all the “diversity”. The White Man will steal all the “diversity” on planet Earth and lord it over everyone else on the planet.

    Truly evil.

    It is time for the non-diverse to start attacking the White Man for hogging all the “diversity?.

  9. prop nation strikes again. Slavs, Greco-Iberians, Anglo-Saxons, and Nordics are genetic Whites. Jews and their murderous anti-White hirelings – Blacks, Mestizos, Muslims, and Asiatics (see also: Jews) – are not White. WE, not they, created all the splendors of Western Civilization which THEY are now destroying. And that’s all the “positive” identity we need.

    and anyone who cannot Name the Jew – JT, for instance – is peddling a Lie.

    alt-Right: enemies to the Right.

    hardRight: no enemies to the Right.

    • Good summary. Strange how even Zman seems to think whites need to invent a culture, as if we’ve never had one before.

  10. Due to repeated mention I finally linked for the first time to Richard Spenser. His flaws were far greater than I was prepared for, and I do not speak to his primary goal of white nationalism. He is center-left, and since center is also left, his vision holds no gravity for me. All things not explicitly right wing lead to the same barren place.

    • What is your definition of “right wing”? To me it sounds like your definition of right wing means some sort of adherence to the principles of the heritage foundation.

      To me right wing mans that you have fundamentally rejected egalitarianism.

  11. I don’t know. I think “white identity” is one of those situations where we get dragged into using the prog’s lexicon to define the world. We use phrases like “Middle Class” all the time in this country. Although the term existed before he wrote about it, our modern usage of it stems from Karl Marx for example. Maybe it’s just a phrase that reflects the world as it is, but it has always been a way of saying “not the Ruling Class”. The idea of white identity largely flows as a reaction to the various other cultures establishing their own identities. It’s reactionary in nearly every case and every usage of the phrase.

    I don’t know if it’s historically accurate, but there’s a line Benjamin Franklin delivers in “1776” basically, “We’ve spawned a new race here, Mr. Dickinson. Rougher, simpler; more violent, more enterprising; less refined. We’re a new nationality. We require a new nation.”

    That’s the identity I’ve always associated myself with. It is at once anti-elitist, nationalistic, independent and when you think about it, it does cut across biological definitions of ‘race’ in use today. There are white people – feminists for example – who are not really Americans. There are black people – Harriet Tubman, Ben Carson – who are. My wife’s family escaped Vietnam before the collapse, their lives saved from murder or “reeducation” by American soldiers disobeying orders and letting them get on the C141. She’s more American than a lot of the people I know. Strong, independent, capitalist, liberty loving, and flat out hates feminism in all its forms, served 6 years in the US Air Force. Naturalized citizen, and you would never know talking to her that she didn’t get here until she was 7 (no accent).

    American.

    There are Hispanics who are as lily white as I am, some are Americans, some are not, using Franklin’s simple definition. My Sicilian grandfather in the old pictures could easily be mistaken for a lot of “Hispanics”. So, what is white, really?

    Finally, I think really the only racial group people are talking about when they talk about “race” is black people. They’re really the only ones, specifically those who define themselves as “African American”, who obsess about it. One of my former employees was a Hatian immigrant, naturalized citizen. Black as coal, and thinks native American blacks are idiots. Somebody introduced him for an award once as an African-American engineer. He took the award and said, “Actually, I’m a Hatian-American, but American will do.” He made himself a millionaire playing the race-game with the government. He’s the “Minority Owned Business”, but mostly plays golf while the white guys who propped him up do all the actual work. I find that funny as hell.

    Trump got elected because there are still AMERICANS living in America. And those Americans transcend gender and typical, GOVERNMENT racial categories.

    THAT is how you win in the country today, and you encourage everyone else to just leave.

    • Derb uses “Sun People versus Ice people” to describe the big divide. Whites and East Asians in one camp and everyone else in the other camp.

      The trouble with the civic nationalist approach is it has been tried and here we are. For three generations “we just have to get back to constitutional principles” has led to hairy dudes in sundresses sharing a restroom with your daughter.

      • There’s no way to circle the square around whatever “white” means. It will always devolve into white nationalism and white supremacy. Like you wrote earlier this year about the French, pretty soon everybody who thought they were on the same side starts purging those with insufficient fealty to the cause.

        The path currently staked out by Trump strikes me as the most realistic path the country is headed down. A basically “American” party which isn’t so much the old “We have to get back to constitutional principles” tropes as it is “Look, if you live inside the borders of this country, and call yourself an American, then we’re going to look out for you first. Speak English, come here legally, obey the law.” And, basically an “Internationalist” party which is the “Turn the United States into transnational, borderless, Hemispheric Trade Zone 6 managed out of Brussels.”

        Clinton said as much during the campaign, her vision of a large continental or even North/South American hemispheric trade zone where people move seamlessly across borders sorta like the EU. It’s batshit crazy, but about 20-25% of the country would probably be fine with it.

        • True, hokkoda, white identity politics reaches its pinnacle in the brutishness of supremacism, chauvinism, etc. A healthy people would have no use for so shallow an identity, and we should condemn “white identity” as basically nihilistic.

  12. Agree wholly with the premise on the necessity of a positive approach. Essential, as you state. However, to those who posit that non-whites would be excluded, I would offer two thoughts:

    1.) Women — It’s tremendously hard to find native born females who are not wholly coopted by pollitical correctness, or who are not to some degree ensnared by this human characteristic we call the left. Popular culture, academia and our political sphere are completely given over to delusional belief relative to women and society, and many largely reject traditional limits, roles and beliefs — rational belief among them is scarce. I say this having served in the military for over 30 years — 25+ as an officer, and after nearly three years working in another government bureaucracy. I saw it daily, and lived its acceleration under P44 (as well as under Bush II). Yes, of course, there are capable, intelligent, wise AND traditionally oriented women. But still, males looking to find women to share their lives with, and propogate this culture, will be forced to look elsewhere for compatible mates. In that, I speak from experience.

    2.) Like-Minded Non-Whites — Certainly, I think that race / ethnicity / “skin” etc play a large part in developed character, beliefs and associations … for whatever reason. Even though some moderns might intellectually want to reject this, it’s obviously true. And, i would assert that stereotypes and generalizations do hold … generally. However, it pays to take your people one at a time (including females and other races). As one well over 50 yrs of age, who served in large collections of humans under difficult circumstances. I can say that there are non-whites who firmly identify with the culture you’re discussing, who have adopted this either through family history or individual choice, and who would and do defend it with their lives. One of the most patriotic Americans I ever met was a senior Army NCO born in Nigeria. We cannot exclude those people just because of skin color. Certainly, I have noted that there is a strong propensity to cluster by race or grievence group. And offspring might be easy marks for those who would leverage those qualities. And yes, people from those groups who are incompatible would have to be identified and excluded for a rebuilding and resurgence of “Anglo-Saxon” identity and western culture. However, in doing so we should somehow accommodate those non-whites / non-westerners who stand with our tradition and culture.

    Can our nation, culture, and western civilization withstand great influxes of those from other, non-compatible and non-western traditions, and still maintain it’s unique character. It doesn’t seem likely … especially when large numbers of those born and raised as part of this culture reject it themselves. But to make this resurgence of western civilization and American culture work, we should think about the place of non-whites in it’s composition. Just a thought.

  13. We have progressivism to help find our positive identity. They denounce fat shaming. The positive virtue is beauty. They denounce slut shaming. The positive virtue is love, marriage and family.

    Social welfare spending: Charity.

    Dependence on government: Rugged individualism.

    Invade the world:

    They were not easily moved,
    They were icy — willing to wait
    Till every count should be proved,
    Ere the Saxon began to hate.

  14. All races within the species H. sapiens have the same genesis, and the race branching largely occurred as a result of adaptation to different environments. Caucasians acquired lighter skin pigmentation as a result of migration into the northern latitudes. The higher IQ differential also occurred as an adaptation to extreme seasonal variation and the need to innovate in order to survive harsh winters and the attendant food scarcity.

  15. I am part of the culture that won two World Wars and a Cold War. I am part of the culture that said we could and would go to the Moon and then we did. The culture that put a personal computer into every home (and pocket) that wanted one.
    The culture that fed the world.
    The culture that had safe streets and good schools.
    The culture that decided slavery was a wrong and ended it…
    we just didn’t know how to clean up the mess that was left over.
    And that one failure may be the end of us.

  16. Great article! Like Jordan Peterson says: focus on keeping your House in order. Have a job and get good at it. Make your neighbors your friends and turn some into confidants. Keep your tool shed organized. Eat healthy food and exercise. When your House is in order, expand your ambitions. My father has a barn in the back. My mission over the next two weeks is “make the barn great again!”

    Make your back yards great again, fellow patriots and our country will be the greater for it!

    Yours in Liberty,

    JD

    • Roger THAT, White Knight! After 70 Summer solar spins here on God’s Great Green Earth. I am concluding THAT is about all I can do!

      It’s like what the great Southern Lawyer of Watergate fame, Sam Irvin, said about his clients: “The dumb ones WON’T take my advice, and the clever ones DON’T NEED my advice!”

      LOCAL–LOCAL–LOCAL. A basis of the concept of “subsidiarity.”

      AMEN!

  17. well luckily the white race has a few important accomplishments to our credit 🙂 seems like the left is very anti-jew and they can do the dirty work of reducing jewish influence on the culture. there are plenty of real problems in the middle and lower class white communities; get those fixed up and we are well on our way to the positive identity ideal 🙂

  18. I still think of this in terms of “which society has brought mankind the greatest benefits in terms of quality of life?”. While there is much room for finger-pointing, it is western civilization which has done this. It is also Western civilization which has lost its way, and it is its own openness and tolerance for other worldviews which has made this stumbling possible.

    Along comes a competing civilization (Islam) which knows exactly what it wants and how to get it, and which is eager to do so, and eager to use Western tolerance against the West, and the West is left fumbling for a response. The responses look to me like very understandable but nonetheless “negative” identities as defined above: increasing Old-Testament-ish Christian piety and white pride. This is the equivalent of sticking your arm in the air and drawing a vertical circle. It’s a start, it’s understandable and necessary but it’s not an end state.

    We know we have everything they want, and we know that the moment they get it it will cease to exist. The bounty of Western civilization is built on creativity, intelligence, openness and mutual respect. Multiculturalism IS death, and it is meant to be. We ARE under attack, and it’s only natural for us to rally around a banner. Rallying the troops is the first step. What then?

    Any movement which becomes large enough to be noticed will be the target of big money seeking either to co-opt it or to apply the tried and true “Embrace, Extend and Extinguish”. The only means I can think of to overcome this is committed leadership refusing outside influence and staying on message.

  19. Birds flying in formation don’t need instruction to do so. Caucasians are evolving in a hostile political environment and will continue to be masters of their own fate. The opposition that bites the hand that feeds it won’t fare as well.

  20. National Lampoon had a piece back in the early 80’s titled something like “Celebrate the Fifth White History Millennium.” Ahead of its time, it seems.

    We tolerate identity groups like Amish and Mennonites because they follow the meta-rules of the meta-society we call America — at least at the interfaces. We embraced and assimilated identity groups like the Irish and Italians because they — over several generations — came to follow the meta rules completely.

    We have some friction with the Jews, because they seem to accept some of the meta rules and to bend or even change others to suit their own purposes. Jewish intermarriage and low fertility seem to be limiting factors to this behavior. Based on the Chinese I know, we will face the same sort of low, grinding friction with them should they decide to take the Jewish path, rather than the Irish/Italian path..

    We have a lot of friction with African Americans because a lot of them (probably the majority) reject the meta-rules. The Hotep movement seems positive in that regard. When I last lived in the South, the Black business community seemed to have a lot a qualities that would make them receptive to living in accordance with the meta-rules in an identity (or affinity, as I like to call it) group based society.

  21. The only list of grievances most white identitarians have with other groups is “why are they here in our countries in the first place?”

  22. This means shoring up old family traditions, like getting together at Christmas, Thanksgiving, and Easter. Praying at family meals, etc. Dressing conservatively. Being on time at work. Being polite to everyone but leftists who get in your face, even those of other races. Being magnanimous. We are racial nobility. Let’s act like it.

  23. I think part of the problem you’re going to have here is that the Alt-right / white identity stuff seems to be born from and as a reaction to all the identity politics crap that has been spewing from the left. In that I include all the black power groups, all the LGBT whatever stuff, feminism, – etc.

    If “white” people are going to get their shit together – they’re going to have to come to grips with some really big problems that are by and large of their own making. Come up with the answer for why whites are not breeding – (for example) – and you might start to find a way forward. Wars are another example. The right wingy type stuff I read is chock full of people complaining about how the Africans and the Muslims are uncivilized stupid people – but I’m pretty sure the history of the 20th century is a massive testament to the stupidity of white people thru their skill at killing each other off.

    I really think the alt-right might be getting some cause and effect things REALLY seriously screwed up. There’s been a few books published about what happened to British society after WW1. Since the British government saw fit to essentially kill off an entire generation of it’s most fit males – what you ended up with was a society with a huge female influence. Lesbianism and acceptance of lower quality males becomes ingrained – because there is no choice.

    I see constant criticism of Germany as being completely feminized and reaping the rewards of Islamization. Again – what do you expect when you take the most virile males – TWICE in the course of 35 years – and dump their dead bodies in a ditch? If the assertions that genetics are destiny that see coming from the alt-right have any truth to them – then surely killing off all the males that would have driven society is going to have an effect.

    I don’t see the alt right REALLY dealing with some of these issues. They seem to be going more down the path of the negative that you mentioned.

    I watched the entirety of the Jared Taylor interview by Stephan Molyneaux on Youboob yesterday – and Taylor is leaning into the negative also.

    The alt right is going to have to start dealing with some very serious issues of economics, war – and the size of government. They don’t seem to be dealing with that much if at all from what I’ve been seeing.

    • Why aren’t whites breeding? Thats easy, western whites are a low time preference high trust, low nepotism group. As such they generally breed when they feel secure in the long term availability of the resources they think they need to raise their children.
      Modern society and modern economics put the kibosh on that big time. The gig economy, the contractor economy, not working anywhere for more than 3 to 5 years, HUD programs moving diversity into any neighborhoods that are too WHITE, Divorce being made so easy and encouraged such that its easier then going to the dentists! All of those things directly inhibit a group with a low time preference, high resource dedication to their offspring.
      Allow white culture to redevelop so that you have the ability to develop long term confidence in your ability to obtain and provide resources for your offspring, and confidence that society is constantly encouraging your spouse to abandon the family at the slightest hint of discord and you will see white populations flourish.

    • “I see constant criticism of Germany as being completely feminized and reaping the rewards of Islamization. Again – what do you expect when you take the most virile males – TWICE in the course of 35 years – and dump their dead bodies in a ditch? If the assertions that genetics are destiny that see coming from the alt-right have any truth to them – then surely killing off all the males that would have driven society is going to have an effect.

      I don’t see the alt right REALLY dealing with some of these issues. They seem to be going more down the path of the negative that you mentioned. ”

      That is a legitimate concern but one that is very delicate to address. People can even talk about the reality of race and its implications for predetermined behavioral traits (i.e genetic destiny). What you are effectively talking about is the directed breeding of human populations. There is nothing inherently wrong with that but the dystopian horror version of “eugenics” has been thoroughly ingrain in most people’s psyche’s.

      • Also, it didn’t help the Germans that they drove out or killed all their smart people in the 1930s and 1940s.

        • Apparently, you only define “smart people” as jews. Did Werner Heisenberg leave? Did Werner von Braun?

          • Is it smart for anyone to stay in America or Western Europe today? There are those that think their ancestral homelands are worth saving. Look at the Boers in South Africa.

          • Lorenzo provides an excellent example of jewish psychology here.

            1. It’s important to the jew that he makes it clear that the tribe is superior to the goyim.

            2. The goyim must be informed that jews have grievances that must be addressed, and the goyim should feel shame.

            3. When the jew’s veiled insults are deciphered and directly addressed, the jew deflects vs. defending his position.

            It’s like clockwork when you pay attention. One of the more interesting points to note regarding jewish behavior on the right is that when jews are obstensibly defending the right, it is invariably from a position of defending jewish interests. The cucked right will parrot the point made by the “based jew” without taking note that the defense does not extend to the goyim. It’s quite ridiculous all of this. We live in the age of bs.

      • If the alt right is going to claim that it’s an issue – and that there are inherent genetic differences between the races – but they’re not going actually tackle some of these issues but instead talking about all the “racist” stuff that the left is accusing them of ……

        Then all they’re really doing is engaging in fantasy.

    • “I don’t see the alt right REALLY dealing with some of these issues.”

      The only issues you mention would require a time machine and a way to influence the governments involved to not fight in both world wars. I have a lot of faith in the Alt-Rights ability to win, but I think this is beyond our capability.

      “The alt right is going to have to start dealing with…”

      No we don’t. We aren’t a political movement. We discuss those things, often to the point of exhaustion, but we realize those things aren’t currently answerable and mainly just lead to division within our ranks. This decreases our ability to succeed at our core goals.

      I realize that to a Boomer mortgages and capital gains tax rates seem of the utmost importance, but not to us.

  24. But isn’t that the problem? A very large component of the white identity movement is defined merely in opposition to the globalist agenda. But the practicality of finding positive meaning is undermined by certain facts: the EU is both globalist and European. If the EU is not a union of white people, what would a union of white people look like?

    • Perhaps we are going to have to clean the current house of traitors, cucks, and other refuse… before we can build a new one.

  25. Even inside the “positive” camp, though, you must avoid the sperg-out. There are some nice “white identity” models that would work just fine, if folks weren’t such godawful dorks about it. “Neo-Confederate,” for instance — take a look at the CSA constitution and tell me they didn’t fix most of the problems of the original. But: Say any of those words, and immediately you’ve got 57 neckbeareded fellows yelling at you about Stonewall Jackson and the precise diameters of cannon balls.

    • Purity spirals are bad. They are actually a form of negative identity that Z seems to be warning about. What he is saying is that being white in the future is going to mean participating in white culture and overlooking slight differences in the way people look, not having the 23 And Me police showing up at family gatherings to see who qualifies to say grace.

      I have mentioned living in Rhodesia. Many people have their own ideas as to how that culture worked. It was not the sort of white supremacist dictatorship that many assume. There was no apartheid. If a black could afford to buy a house in a white neigborhood he was free to. There just weren’t many who could. There was a racial and national hierarchy. Tremendous diversity. At the top was white English, then Boer, then non-English European, and within that whether one was from northern or southern Europe. I had friends whose parents were from England, South Africa, France, Denmark, Italy, Mauritius, Mozambique, Portugal, Switzerland, etc. There were Indian shop keepers, like everywhere else in the world. There was a property qualification for voting, not a racial one. The schools were segregated at the primary and secondary level but integrated from then on. And this culture worked better than any I have seen run by any progressive anywhere, and most certainly better than what replaced it.

      If there had been no Soviet Union, no People’s Republic of China, no Jimmy Carter, and no Andrew Young, it would still exist. It probably wouldn’t be quite the same as it was when I was a child, but it would be the kind of place people would want to live in.

  26. Positive white identity shouldn’t be hard to establish. The result of what happens when Europeans are around other Europeans for centuries is all around us. Even Asians and Jews obsessed with status teach their kids to play Bach and Chopin and jockey to get their kids into ivies and European public schools established for and by Europeans. And while European cities are crowded with Third World scum, all that beautiful architecture, the castles and churches, are still there. Aesthetic beauty mocks and enrages nonwhites (which is why I agree with the feminists that rape is about power as much as sex, since it’s a way for ugly people to feel powerful by defiling beauty).

    As for the dissident right sites obsessed with churning out variations of the theme “Black people suck,” it’s easy to judge these types, like Paul Kersey and Colin Flaherty, but you also have to remember that living cheek-to-jowl with underclass blacks (as, say, that shooter Dylan Roof did) is something that drives whites (and Asians) insane, and I can forgive my brethren their monomania. Some of us have the luxury/opportunity to either escape or avoid the black undertow. Some white kid in high-school has no choice though, and is bombarded by black aggression and arrogance at school, and in most of the media he consumes at home. But yes, blacks are just a tool/weapon in the hands of our enemies and to focus on them is to give them too much credit.

  27. Spot on

    Psychology/ goal planning 101.As Z stated It’s not enough to complain about something, you need to have a positive goal to have something to look forward to.

    To me it means building a network/organization to support us. Something like the NRA as Zman pointed out for whites. Ethnics already have their own variant. Mexicans have La Raza, Jews have the ADL/ACLU, Blacks have the NAACP and government agencies at their beck and call..

    This organization(dues paying, don’t expect a sugar daddy to show up – they saw what Trump has to put up with so it’s not happening) would provide networking, PAC, financial and legal support for members, education and social services, etc.

    The goal would be to have chapters in most cities and towns across the U.S.

    IOW it would a shadow society of sorts that stays unobtrusive until the system goes belly up.

    Not having it would be disaster for whites in the event of a government or economic collapse.

  28. God help us, it just sound like nice racism; just a lighter weight sin. Racial identity politics of any kind cannot end well. Morals are a way of living life, not a outcome of birth race. If politics home in in this path the country and maybe civilization is lost as we are veering from a better path.
    I have much more admiration for Booker T. Washington than I do Ted Nugent, and both are patriotic Americans, but Ted and I are the same race, as is Hitler… Race identity does not have worth in evaluating character.
    I’m keeping in mind the stuff written about intelligence differences and innovation hotbeds. There certainly are better and worse cultures as there are better and worse religions as well as better and worse constitutions, etc…. But I resist any notion that the human is better or worse due to the chance of birth.
    Great Americans have come in all colors, let’s hope we can ignore what the left is pushing us towards.

    • “Racial identity politics” seems to be an EMERGENT phenomenon, not one that we select from a menu of equally-viable outcomes. In other words, it is a natural function of the social stresses and conflicts created by the collision of disparate groups competing for resources and power.

      Different groups have different group tendencies and will tend to create different sorts of societies which reflect different group preferences. Some of these sorts of societies are outright offensive to certain groups, or at least unlivable (hence, the “white flight” out of urban America in the 50’s and 60’s). You may not like that fact, but facts are not much interested in our mental comfort.

    • We tried ignoring it, and God didn’t help us. Booker T. Washington would tell you to get your head out of your ass.

    • Today noted dindu Joy Reid of MSNBC advised the Democratic Party to give up on Whites, who’s interests, she deems, are antithetical to the interests of Blacks and other “minorities” – i.e. we’re the enemy (of course, I’m sure she still expects us to pay for Tyronika’s 8 churrins, SNAP, Section 8, and sail foams) So no. Whites are no longer willing to a unilateral disarmament. In fact, let’s get it on. I like our chances. This is the future you asked for, and by god you gonna get it good and hard. Sorry Shlomo got to rubbing those mitts together too hard, and too early, but the mask done dropped.

      If you’re Black, join the Hoteps and get agency a job.
      If you’re White, lay in the bed you made. We don’t want you or your genes.
      If you’re jewish, I hear El Al has some killer deals.

    • It’s not us who started identity politics, the other side did, but now that the game is on, don’t blame team honky for playing.

    • You keep playing the tolerance game while every other group that you’re tolerating plans and works for your destruction. Who do you think will win?

    • Worthless hippie, go back to Woodstock.
      Everyone except whites has already tribed up, if we don’t we will not survive. We are already far behind the power curve; we have some catching up to do.

  29. A clean divorce from black america would be best. No more welfare , section 8, affirmitive action, etc.

    Keep our hard earned money to have bigger families and instill pride for all the accomplishments we have made.

    The alternative is to watch the savages out breed us and lay waste to all the white man has ever built.

    • That doesn’t work in reality. The black population cannot effectively compete against whites economically at the population level ( from IQ to violence to time preference to trust level). As a result you end up with either a permanent underclass sin a mixed race society or you end up with Ethiopia next door to a Germany. Neither of those is stable and both end in conflict. A strong ethno-nationalism for both groups is the better solution, even then there is the geographical challenge that there would be major pressure for the blacks to move into the white territories and of course the subsequent screeches of “racism” if they are denied the fruits of western whites labors.

      • Most in the alt-right would except a black/white partition. I doubt if anyone thinks it would be anything but a temporary situation, as Blacktopia would inevitably degenerate into cannibalism and anarchy. This would leave it open to reconquest.

      • You are not recognizing that our unenlightened ancestors had things figured out. But we must reinvent the wheel instead. Segregation kept a place for blacks that they could identify with and sort out. There was a black middle class that served blacks, not a black middle class that served itself to AA government jobs. Their leaders were leaders, not grifters. There was predictability and comfort for the individual and the group. This was home. Now they have no home, and neither does anyone else.
        Try comparing the legacy greatness of black society from 1900-1950 with the desert of 1960 to the present. Freedom of association means freedom to not associate or it means nothing. It means nothing.

  30. It seems to me that white identity is, by definition, negative.

    Meaning, it is what you’re left with when all the other stuff has been stripped away: family, tribe, religion, communal organizations, neighborhood, region, nation.

    I don’t think that white people at the height of their achievements primarily thought of themselves as white. They thought of themselves as British, Catholic, Southron, whatever.

    To put it another way, white identity is at its root a product of alienation and atomization. And also a product of Progressive race-based thinking. 150 years ago, a child in school was taught that he was a member of his community, his church, his state, his country-he thus had obligations and things to be proud of, and of course, rights. This often went beyond race-for instance, look at Faulkner’s stories. Black and white Southerners alike often saw themselves as part of something and very different from the Northerners. Just like two Hindus of different castes probably see themselves as part of one whole, and an American or Japanese as something completely different.

    Today, a child is taught that he is black or white, innocent victim or root of all that’s evil. There are no obligations, nothing to be proud of, no rights-only entitlements or blood guilt. This breeds massive resentment on both sides, and white and black identity are, at their core, products of those resentments.

    To take that identity, created by your enemies in a stripping process, and try to graft something positive onto it, your “cultural phenomenon,” seems to me to be putting the cart before the horse, and doomed. But what do I know, man? I can’t see the future.

    BTW, this is also a reply to your AmRen thing about whether Jews are white. Those Jews who’ve had everything that makes them Jewish stripped away from them, before they were born, are white. Sadly.

    • These are all very interesting points. I say that mostly because it tracks with my own thinking as I work through it in my head. I’m not sure white identity works, because whites are so easily broken down into more comfortable categories like their nationality and Euro-tribe. Americans have “Southerner” and “Mountaineer” and so forth.

      For Americans, I think the place to start is our own backyard and just worry about the American identities. That’s more fruitful and something I have planned to post about 😉

      • Problem is that most Americans live in cities and suburbs, which have been turned into engines of alienation and atomization over the last 80 years, as documented in The Slaughter of Cities. So I don’t know how an American identity would work.

        The military used to rely, heavily, on the redneck identity, playing Lee Greenwood’s Proud To Be An American music video at graduation events, where that cheesedick is riding around on a tractor and greeting guys coming back from overseas, and also that awful song about We’re Gonna Kick Yer Ass, It’s The American Way. But with the complete transformation of the military into an adult day care center, with special accommodations for women, perverts and racial grievance holders, and the total divorce of its actual missions from its stated mission (defense of the country,) that’s become impractical. And if half the military can’t identify with that synthetic identity, probably 90% of civilians won’t be able to.

        What’s left? What’s an American identity outside of the country? What’s the lowest common denominator? And is it worth salvaging?

        • You bring up some things that I think point directly to the fact that the alt-right really hasn’t thought this shit thru very well.

          Why exactly have the cities and suburbs been turned into engines of alienation? I think you may well be correct – but the question is: Why?

          I’ve spent quite a bit of time on gun forums – under the assumption that the people there would be conservative leaning (not progressive) – this assumption – made at a younger age – has been proven to be false on many occasions.

          One good example I can give of that – which dovetails into your points: is bringing up the idea of having the militia reinstated along a similar form as it was in the earlier days of this country. Militias were made up of locals. So you have a built in comraderie among the members. The militia structure was also there as a defense against out of control government. You were in the militia alongside your neighbors – protecting your local community and your own property – and your family. There were real reasons for this system – that were destroyed by the rise of progressivism in the late 1800’s into the early 1900’s.

          I saw a good example of how different this system was just this last weekend. I vacation on Peaks Island (Portland Harbor – Maine). There are two great old buildings on the island – one is the 5th Maine museum: https://www.fifthmainemuseum.org/ , and the other is the 8th Maine Regiment lodge and museum: https://8thmaineregimentpeaksisland.com/.

          The 8th is STILL run by descendents of the original members of the 8th regiment. These two places were built by the survivors of those two regiments after they served in the Civil War. The 8th was not built until the 1890’s if I remember correctly – but it was funded thru lottery winnings by one of the members. Think about this : many decades after the war was over – these men were STILL spending time with each other and funding these buildings with that purpose in mind.

          Is there anywhere in our society these days where you really see the same thing? The VFW – maybe. But even then you’re not talking about men who in large part probably served together at the same time in the same unit.

          The society has been fragmented – some people will claim on purpose. I know I don’t feel a lot of love towards the people I live with and around every day – because it’s MA – and I’ve had too many conversations with them and been told I’m some sort of selfish scumbag because I object to being defined as a tax donkey – especially when the money gets used to support all manner of bullshit I don’t agree with.

          • Those guys kept together largely because of organizations like the Grand Army of the Republic. I know there are many veterans’ motorcycle clubs out there, a veterans’ association with large appeal like the GAR could do wonders. 19th century men were joiners; the Gilded Age was also the great age of fraternalism. Maybe we can bring that back for civilians too — after all, people still got all the stuff about the Leopard Lodge on “Happy Days,” and that show finished up in the early 1980s.

          • Before government benefits, crony corporate “insurance”, and Warren Act union rackets horned in, there were thousands of fraternal benefit societies.

          • “…the alt-right really hasn’t thought this shit thru very well.”

            Upon what do you base this assumption? Creating a genuine white identity that brings us together rather than drives us apart is a topic of some importance to the alt-right, and has been for some time. This is why we have RL meet-ups, discussions about traditionalism vs modernism, etc.

          • When you talk about “white identity” – all you’re doing is being the “negative” that Zman referred to in the article. It’s just a reaction to all the ‘identity’ crap that all the other identity groups are engaging in.

          • Carlsdad;
            You bring up an interesting point re militia. The communitarian benefits you correctly infer are largely incidental, not why they were organized. The militia’s actual role in national defense has been controversial since colonial times. G. Washington deprecated the militia as nearly useless against the British regulars in pitched battle: Unreliable in showing up ‘on time, dressed to play’, unsteady under fire, unwilling/unable to stand against the standard British bayonet charge tactics, etc. So he instituted the Continental Army of necessity so he too could have (semi) reliable regular units on call day and night.

            This controversy naturally showed up again during the Civil War and continues to this day as Reserve/National Guard vs. regulars fights over personnel, money and equipment.

            The colonial militias _were_ effective against the guerrilla tactics of the Native Americans, however. Plus they were inexpensive. That’s why they existed in the first place, not because of some perceived need for male fellowship and solidarity.

            Some states, most particularly NY, still have a ‘state militia’ on the highly plausible theory that the National Guard might well be unavailable (e.g. overseas on national service) were disaster/insurrection to strike. As validation, the NY State Militia, particularly the NY Naval Militia did excellent service evacuating Manhattan on 9/11 and in augmenting local authority immediately after 9/11.

            But, given these three tiers, there’s not much space/justification for any such thing as a ‘private militia, which would naturally be viewed with suspicion.

            If/when insurrection were to break out in the near future, a militia would again become very important. But it is even more obviously true now that no militia, however motivated, could hope to prevail against regular forces.

            Best bet would be to instigate your state to create a state militia and populate it or to populate the current one if one exists.

      • I’ll repost something i posted on Vox’s blog the other day on this subject, pardon the length…..

        Yesterday’s post “Civic Nationalism fail” and this post tied together nicely with this video by Jordon Peterson (Jordan Peterson: Jung (Depth Psychology)):

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw7NvWvwVCA (good video watch the whole thing)

        The 3 items collectively answer some persistent points of debate amongst the alt-right, and definitely on this blog:

        Who is an American?
        While the answer to this is partially racial it is also cultural and self-defined (see 40:51 in Peterson video, with the money shot at 44:15 to 45:15). Each of us must “find our father”, discover our own deep culture. That deep culture is what will guide each of and determine what we are. The “Asian American” will most likely find Asian culture when they dive deep, the “African American” will probably find Africa when they dive deep, etc etc. There will be exceptions but the vast majority will be what one would expect.
        The challenge that exists for Americans, but not for Europeans is a question of culture. American culture has been systemically deconstructed starting in the early 1900’s with aspects of public education and reaching its crescendo in the 60’s and 70’s with the cultural revolution of those times. It has gone so far that any suggestion of “American culture” is virtually considered racists, and evil in public forums. This defining characteristic of culture, that is critical to the founding of a stable ethno-state and arguably a stable nation, has been systematically erased to such a degree that anyone born after the late 70’s has very little experience of American culture except for the memories of those who lived it. The re-runs of 1950’s leave it to beaver is the closest most living Americans will come to direct experience of traditional American culture unless you are a boomer.
        As I said yesterday the basic litmus test is the thought experiment of what happens when I put the people in question in virgin lands, do they rebuild an America or something else. If they don’t rebuild America you are not an American. “Mexican American”, “Jewish American”, “African American”, “German American”, “Asian American”…. Not Americans. This is not a judgement on what civilizations they may build but a simple observation that the products of these groups are not America and as such they are not Americans. Your grandmother from 3 generations back is dead and irrelevant, what you are, you will largely determine that, there is no easy checklist

      • Zman, Again pardon the length, part II

        White nationalists Vs Ethno-nationalists
        As stated in the previous point traditional American culture has been largely erased, devalued, and demonized. Europeans do not have this problem to the same degree. Yes European nationalist cultures (French, German, Italian, etc) have seen deconstruction of culture occurring but not to the depth or extent that had been achieved in America). European cultures are still relatively intact. This dichotomy is the source of the constant confusion and battle within the Alt-right in regards to “white nationalism” versus ethno-nationalism. The Americans talking about “white nationalism” don’t have the experience of an intact legacy culture and hence their reference point is “white”. White is a common characteristic but not a defining characteristic for a western ethno-state. As Vox and others have pointed out the Germans, Italians, English, French etc., all see themselves as distinct and have direct experience with their individual legacy cultures. For them their defining characteristic is their deep culture and “white” is simply a common characteristic.
        Americans will probably struggle with this difference until the cultural wars (and probably physical) have ended in the US and an American culture has been rediscovered. It is a huge struggle seen regularly from this blog to the msm cultural battles. It is one of the key battles because the re-establishment of a true American culture kills the “propositional American”. There can no longer be an “Asian American”, “African American”, “Mexican American” or any other type of cultural hybrid once American culture is re-establish, and that is a death knell for the leftist and everything they fight for, it is the death of their entire power structure.

        • Americans have in large part taken their legacy culture – one that worked quite well – and thrown it in the trash. And they did this long before all the crazy shit you see going on these days started rearing it’s ugly head just a few short years ago.

          I have been arguing this out with people for probably a good 20 years now. Go try and have a conversation with the average “American” ( a white one) – about how we need to constrain the size of the Federal government, dump public education – and drastically cut the size of the military and re-institute something along the lines of the militia or a Swiss type military service.

          Let me know how far that gets you.

          I’ll wait.

          • Agreed, that is why the next version of American culture will be earned through blood. The decision has already been made even if we cant understand it or see the sequence of events. The events surrounding the break up of the US in a civil conflict will forge the foundation of the next “American” culture. Who knows what it will be named, but it wont span the continent and will probably be some version of ethno-centric.

      • The reason white identity wasn’t taught 150 years ago is because there is no need to teach it in lands that are 90%+ white. White is what “is” in that circumstance. That leaves the room to teach nationality, Euro-tribe, Southerner, etc.

        Today, with the influx of endless non-whites, we don’t have the luxury of those smaller distinctions. We are one – or we end up as none.

      • And, around the margins, identities can change: I was raised in the Mountain West by a son of Texas dirt farmers and a daughter of fallen Southern aristocracy (I’m connected to the Hood, Stephens, and Brazeale families); my family in this land predates the Republic.

        I was raised to despise Easterners in general and Northerners in particular, white or not. Now in my fifth decade, I can move among them, but I ‘know’ they and I don’t belong together.

        To anyone with a good grounding in personal, familial, and national history, there are stumbling blocks to a ‘vanilla’ white nationalist movement.

        I think one of the other commentors has it right: use the NRA as a model: “I like hunting!”, “I like target shooting!” “Colt!” “Browning!” “Fuck you both, Ruger!” . . . Yes, we’ve insurmountable tactical differences, but it’s male whites who made this modern world.

        Let’s defend it, and, one another.

    • BaruchK

      ” Those Jews who’ve had everything that makes them Jewish stripped away from them, before they were born, are white. Sadly.”

      Perhaps its a case of “sample error” but i know many jews who would fit your definition of “stripped away” at a high level, but if you really dive deep about their identity they identify as jew before “American”. And thats expected, the left has successfully deconstructed traditional American culture to the point that little is left except for the occasional “leave it to beaver” re-run.

      There is no going back to “the days of yore”. that culture is dead. The alt-right may be capable of breeding a rebirthed American culture and even if its similar to that previously existed it will not be the same. It will also be necessity preclude “multi-multiculturalism” which largely precludes any significant portion of another race mixed into the nation state that the rebirthed culture inhabits. Culture ultimately arises from the biology

      • They identify as Jew before American for the same reason that everyone is Irish on St. Patrick’s Day, that white people will tell you they’re part Indian (that alleged great-grandmother,) that black people will tell you they’re Cherokee (same thing.)

        America worships the exotic and the standard American thing is no longer cool unless you live in some exotic American subculture (the boonies) with its own unique codes (deer hunting, dipping Cope, etc.)

        Same thing happened with the Roman Empire-everyone wanted something exotic. It could be Syrian mystery religions, it could be rusticism, whatever-anything but plain old Roman.

        What does it mean that those Jews are Jewish? They don’t keep the commandments, they don’t speak Hebrew, they don’t have any connection to the Land of Israel, they don’t particularly even like other Jews. What’s their Jewish identity? Woody Allen movies, bagels and lox, the Holocaust. It’s being (1/16th) Irish on St. Paddy’s Day, or “grandma was Cherokee, that’s why I got that good hurr” (by the way, black people will never tell you about their white ancestors-that’s not cool or exotic.)

        • Jews are an ethnic group, a race, a religion, or nothing at all – by turns. It all depends on what they think will benefit them most in a given situation.

          • Despite the bad faith in which you make your comment, I’ll give you a genuine answer.

            We precede the split between race, ethnicity and religion. When we came into being, these were all the same thing.

            Today, we’re definitely not a race-there are Jews of all colors. And any convert is as much a Jew as any born Jew.

            A good way to model it is that we are a very large extended family.

          • If it is “bad faith” to tell the truth about Jews, so be it.

            Your lie about converts is just that. Jews famously do not seek converts so the few you might point to are statistically insignificant.

            You are indeed an “extended family” just not mine and not one that can ever be trusted. There’s a reason Jews have been driven out of every civilized country at one time or another and the reason is… Jews.

            Just so you know, I didn’t always believe this. I was brainwashed for a while with the popular protestant belief that we should always do what we can to support Jews and Israel because “chosen.”

            Later I saw you for what you are – and yes, I’m including you personally since you are actively trying to obscure the truth.

            Even so, I am a strong supporter of Israel and have high hopes that one day every Jew in America… is living there.

          • We do not seek converts, and yet we have a steady stream of them, and always have-at the height of persecution under the Roman Empire, for instance, there were plenty of converts from the Roman elites. What does that tell you?

            The reason we’ve been driven out of a bunch of countries is the same exact reason that Christians have been driven out of most places in the Muslim world and reduced to persecuted minorities where they have not been driven out. Where are the non-Christians of Western Europe, by the way?

            You are absolutely right-I am not in your family, thank God. Thank you for your support, though.

          • And now you compare Christianity to Islam. That is how Jews really feel and it is evidenced in your unending war on whites.

            Your filthy “Holocaust Museums” dot our countryside to perpetuate your endless victimhood. Your filth spews out of Hollywood on a daily basis. Your lies are repeated in our “News” organizations 24-7. And you promote the importation of Muslims in mass numbers, knowing exactly where that will lead.

            No, Christians do none of those things in countries where they are or have been persecuted.

            The day is coming when you will have a choice to make. I have no desire to see your people dead in our streets – which is why I hope Israel will always exist and be available as a refuge. Might be wise to leave sooner rather than later to avoid the housing crunch on the other side.

          • It was interesting taking the temperature of the commenters here. Be happy for now. Most are still following the training of our “Greatest Allies.”

            Time is running out though.

  31. So tangential question. Where do patriotic, legally immigrated, well-assimilated foreigners fit into the Jared Taylor/Amren scheme of things?

    • Assimilated???? That is a fallacy more often then not. True assimilation takes multiple generations, some say 3 some say 8 or more. Even then the true test is really a thought experiment. if you take that person and drop them in a virgin land, do the build an america or a little india, llittle china, little france etc. Its more than just skin color and physical location there is a biological component as well.

      • Assimilation is a mental thing. My black African relatives buy into the American Dream 100%, and completely, overtly reject the Black American “poor me”, separatist, ghetto, “where’s mine?” thing. In fact, they look at such stuff as absolute foolishness and a hindrance to what they are trying to accomplish for themselves and their families. IOW, they want nothing to do with the Black American culture, and prefer to immerse themselves in the White American culture. The kids, too, understand that success lies in their own attitudes to life, and the occasional put down or judgement, sometimes from other Blacks, needs to roll like water off a duck’s back. It’s how you succeed as a Black in this culture, but you need to surround yourself with something other than the pathetic Black American mental ghetto.

        They are also working back in Africa trying to improve the joint, but it is tough operating with a three digit IQ in a culture that is set to a much lower number than that, and that is so rife with fraud and graft. An uphill battle for sure.

        • Wrong.

          “But I know someone who isnt like that”

          Has no application to population level behavior / traits. Assimilation is cultural and biological. Further even if a very small % can successfully assimilate the vast majority never will. Things like time preference, nepotism, social trust, etc is partially genetic. At the end of the day you or I will not make the decision. It will be made by the local community, whether they accept the person in question or not. Local communities may accept a handle full of people who don’t look like them but only if they are rabidly “american” and make themselves useful. “what about me” attitudes will get people expelled in short order.

          Really its not so different from IQ. Just because the long-tail of the IQ curve for Blacks has a handful at 100+ doesnt mean the average black is anywhere near 100. The tired “but I know a high IQ black” is meaningless. What about the other 16+ million that are well below the level generally required for most skilled professions?

          As has been said many times, your skin will be your uniform and biology is destiny.

          • I see your point, but my point is that the initiative lies with the immigrant, his attitude and his intelligence. We are largely bystanders to that. The issue is not immigration, but who you are letting in. Our stupid immigration policy has allowed us to lose sight of what immigration can do for our culture, if it is done right.

            My other point is that the Black American culture is this weird, warped thing that exists nowhere else, and is looked at by many foreigners as an insane thing (which it is). The idea that we have allowed the poisonous elements of Black American culture into our institutions and law is unfathomable to many people looking from abroad. We are immersed in this thing, so it is either taken for granted, or treated as just another interest group looking for their piece of the action. Because, as Whites, we want to cut the cancer out, we easily fall into the Nazi/fascist/white power cliche. What is really going on is that we have correctly identified the problem, and it is a Black American culture of entitlement and revenge. You don’t need to be Black to subscribe to it, and many Blacks don’t subscribe to it either. It is like the “Jews” arguments going on around here lately. It is a shorthand for bad behavior that starts at the level of the individual. The problem is that the shorthand creates a superficial “we-they” thing that hurts our argument. The issue is not Blackness or immigration. It is subscribing to the toxic cultures in our society that will destroy us all, if they are left unchecked. We have Black allies in this matter, if we open our eyes to what they see and know, from their own perspectives. To broad brush this thing is to push away bright and ambitious people who “get it”. Same goes for Latinos. Blame the toxic culture that sucks these people in, and blame the stupid immigration policies that invite the people who easily fall into these toxic cultures upon arrival here, but don’t blame the people because of where they come from. That’s lazy and counterproductive.

      • My father was an immigrant. My mother’s parents were immigrants. It didn’t take our family even 2 generations to assimilate.

    • If these foreigners are so wonderful, so productive, so law-abiding… it seems wrong for America to keep them. Let them go back to the lands of their heritage where they are needed to improve those places.

    • “So tangential question. Where do patriotic, legally immigrated, well-assimilated foreigners fit into the Jared Taylor/Amren scheme of things?”

      Taylor celebrates them.

  32. So Zman… so you’re sayin’

    “You’ve got to accentuate the positive
    Eliminate the negative
    And latch on to the affirmative
    Don’t mess with Mister In-Between ” !

    H/T Johnny Mercer

    Great post btw. I think you’ve hit the sweet spot on a delicate subject. MAGA

  33. This is a nice collection of thoughts.

    I have seen much of the “positive” version of identity, and very little of the other in my interactions with other AltRighters. Sure people like to shitpost Tyrone and Merchant memes, but mostly this is to relieve the stress of being forced to support every other group, while being repaid with hate.

    With Blacks, most of the AltRight merely want them to live as the Icelanders do – setting their own course and being the better for it. We think well of men like Pastor Manning, Tommy Sotomayor, and the Hoteps. Men such as these should be leading them, vs. Al Sharpton and Maxine Waters.

    I attribute a majority of our existential woes to the tribe’s dual morality, extremely high ethnocentricity, their view of Whites as the ultimate evil. It would be accurate to say I hate them for what they have done to us. Their hypocrisy, lies, scheming and endless demands know no bounds, not to mention their clear intent to genocide us, but I would be more than happy for them to just leave us alone. If we never had to deal with them again I would consider it a win and never think about them again, except as an extremely-costly lesson learned which should never be repeated.

    I know what our race is capable of when we are left to thrive, invent, innovate, and overcome. That’s all I want for White children 100 years for now. Nothing animates my thinking more. I think we’re the best. Any healthy race should

  34. This would dovetail nicely with your earlier post about groups self-policing. What is it about white, WestCiv we seek to, not conserve, but project? For a culture on defense dies.

      • Which sect? Trinitarianism? Arianism? Nestorianism? Muhammadism? ALL of these are defective due to their dependence upon the Jewish superstition and the Jews’ silly doctrine of the Messiah. Furthermore, your favorite flavor of Christianity is evidently a sentimental gutter religion of rabble rousing, poverty, and communist despotism.

        Read again, say, Acts 4:32 through 5:11 if you’ve forgotten the depravity of your sect’s founders, e.g. the blockhead given the nickname Peter. Then think of a better religion, if you can.

      • That’s part of it, perhaps most of it. Our enemies hate Christianity, as all totalitarians do, because it is the platform for living by a personal code, for feeling no guilt in the presence of yahoos, for loving liberty, for accepting death at the hands of pathetic, primitive people, for serving a Master who is not of this world. Christianity is persecuted because it is dangerous. It frees the believer from the shit-storm of “the current year”. It is a prophylactic to mind-rape.

        • Why did Simon Blockhead have Ananias and Sapphira whacked? Was he a littler closer to Jim Jones in character and mentality than Rome’s blood drinking shamans care to admit?

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