When The Truth Is True

In recent times, probably since the Bush years, people we now associate with the alt-right have claimed that Israel controls American foreign policy. Anti-Semites, of course, have always made this charge, but usually without much proof. They just hate Jews and by extension hate Israel, so claiming American foreign policy is run by Zionists has an emotional appeal for them. Paleocons and now the alt-right, in contrast, point to various adventures and neocon statements as proof Israel runs the show.

Still, even with an increasing amount of data to support the general idea that our political class is more concerned with Israel than America, most people don’t believe it. Instead they look for other reasons that are more fun and satisfying. Part of it is most white people just don’t want to agree with the anti-Semites on anything. They have been tuned by generations of conditioning to respond negatively to anything critical of Jews. Another part of it is the aluminum foil hat stuff about the deep state.

The gag during the last presidential election about the conspiracy theories surrounding Hillary Clinton was that it would be easier to dismiss them if they were not true. That’s the issue with the theory that Israel controls American foreign policy. It would be a lot easier to dismiss the claims if they were not true. For example, Trump said he was withdrawing our troops from Syria. Now, all of a sudden, Trump says he has changed his mind and we’re staying in Syria because of Israel. Score one for the anti-Semites.

In his book, Tucker Carlson recounts the fights between the neocons and the paleocons over Iraq. The neocons publicly argued that the paleos were anti-Semites for opposing these wars. In private, neocons like Bill Kristol laughed and said the wars were all about defending Israel. The neoconservatives hate Carlson with a passion, but they have not bothered to dispute this claim. Instead, they accuse him of being a shill for Putin. Put another way, they concede he is correct in his recollections.

In fairness, a lot of Americans have been conditioned to put the interests of Israel above all else, but it is not a majority. Most people voting democrat are anti-war. The rainbow coalition of non-whites on the Left has a strong whiff of antisemitism. On the Republican side, most voters are done with foreign adventurism. It’s why no GOP pols talk about the two decade long war in Afghanistan. The only people who support forever war in the Middle East are Evangelicals, who have made Israel an obsession.

Still, while most Americans would welcome a withdrawal from the world, most also think helping Israel is a good thing. They see her as the plucky little country surviving in a sea of hostile barbarians. That’s why Trump blurted out that line about staying in Syria to defend Israel. He’s pretty much a BoomerCon, so his instincts are in-line with the MAGA hat wearing type who show up at his rallies. They will forgive him for reversing course on Syria, because they share his general sensibilities on defending Israel.

That’s a good rationalization until you take a look at what is going on with Tulsi Gabbard, the Hawaiian politician now running for president. Given the state of the Left and the circus that will be the Democrat primary, she should be a star. In fact, when she first won office, the Left was selling her as the future of the party. She’s young, good looking, heterodox in her politics, without straying too far afield. She served in the military, which is now a weird badge of honor for female politicians. She is the female Barak Obama.

Then they started to look past sex and skin tone. Her father is anti-gay, advocating things like gay conversion therapy. Gabbard herself was never on-board with the assault on marriage, which makes her a homophobe on the Left. More important, she was anti-war and not for the goofy reasons popular on the Left. She opposed the endless wars in the Muslim world because she thinks they are bad for Americans. Even worse, she was willing to meet with Assad, Israel’s sworn enemy. That’s unforgivable.

That’s why on the day she announced her intention to run for the nomination, every single big shot in the Democrat party denounced her. It was so obviously coordinated, it recalled that gag about the Clinton conspiracies. It was if they wanted the world to know that they were reading the lines from a script handed to them by headquarters. Howard Dean was probably the most amusing. His statement on Gabbard suggested that maybe someone was holding his family hostage and he was forced to denounce her or else.

It’s not just the pols trashing Gabbard. The media has been instructed to open up the big guns on her. Here we are a year from the first voting and the Prog media is spending big money to trash one of the fifty candidates. It’s one thing to start throwing mud at one of the favorites, but to attack a minor candidate this far out is weird. The outfit running the shenanigans against Gabbard is in so tight with the Deep State-Democrat Party nexus, it probably has offices at the DNC. New Knowledge is an arm of the party.

Just to be clear, in case anyone is confused, the phrase “Kremlin controlled” or “Putin Stooge” is code for anti-Semite. Anytime you hear the usual suspects linking an enemy with Russia, they are speaking from tribal interests, not Americans ones. It’s why everyone who tumbles out of the NeverTrump clown car starts hooting about how Putin controls Trump. Russia is the great bogeyman of the tribe, so the worst thing you can be is a tool of Russia. We will hear a lot about Gabbard and her Russia ties this year.

Again, it is understandable that people would be slow to notice that a foreign country is dictating American foreign policy. Those anti-Semites are icky and mean. The conspiracy theorists are weird and creepy. No one wants to be associated with them. The thing is though, the truth is true, even if bad people believe it. The truth is, Israel may not control American foreign policy, but they have a tremendous amount of influence. Given what just happened in Syria, it is fair to say Israel has veto power.

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c matt
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c matt

The neocons publicly argued that the paleos were anti-Semites for opposing these wars.

How is that not an admission that Israel controls (or as you put it, strongly influences) US foreign policy?

LineInTheSand
Guest
LineInTheSand

The evidence that J3ws and Israel greatly influence foreign policy is necessarily indirect because they don’t publically announce their motivations. Some evidence:

1. Trump’s admission that we are staying in Syria to protect Israel.
2. Z’s recounting of Tucker’s recounting of Bill Kristol confession.
3. Many of the largest donors to both parties say that the protection of Israel is one of their highest priorities. Sheldon Adelson, one of the largest donors to the GOP, is a good example when he said Trump will be a “tremendous president when it comes to the safety and security of Israel.”

dad29
Guest

Pat Buchanan will second your emotion, as will Joe Sobran. The Tribe succeeded in crippling Buchanan for life, and nearly buried Sobran, too. Do not take them lightly. There is a reason that God Himself called them “Stiff-necked.” (He did not add “jackwads.” but He could have….) By the way, committed “pro-Semites” are notably and viciously anti-Catholic. If you listen to Levin for long enough, you’ll notice that is is VERY quick to lash out at the Church and its people, unless one of them calls him to fellate Israel. No surprise; the Church is merely tolerated by Israel’s authorities;,… Read more »

Gravity Denier
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Gravity Denier

The hard-core left cares naught for anything to do with religion, but supports both Judaism and Catholicism because they hold the “right” political position on the immigration invasion (more, faster, shut up you xenophobic racist!).

It was a mistake to admit more than a handful of Jews to the United States, and we’re now seeing the same is true of Catholics who want the country overrun with colonists because lots of them are Catholic and they’ll keep the church doors open and the collection plates full.

Alzaebo
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Alzaebo

Gravity, evangelicals too.
A common thread to the mechanics of western religion.

BadThinker
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BadThinker

Lay Evangelicals have this obsession with Israel mostly because they have no knowledge of Christian and Jewish history, and the Bible says “Israel” a lot. The clergy have their own reasons, mostly around $$$.

Ris Eruwaedhiel
Guest
Ris Eruwaedhiel

The Israeli government donated a Lear jet to Jerry Falwell in 1979. I wonder how many ministers were paid in some way to shill for Israel.

SidVic
Member
SidVic

Yes, when P Buchanan was criticized for saying -names like murphy and adams had to fight the war while rosen and wolfowitz was pushing it- was a moment that the matrix flickered for me. I didn’t understand what was being implied; i didn’t even know jewish names back then. So i looked into it… ahhhh. Now if i hear of someone being shitty or i think looks jewish I look em up on wiki to see if they are jewish. My jewdar has developed considerable. I supect that many jewish people look up people that do admirable things to see… Read more »

Member
Felix_Krull

I look em up on wiki to see if they are jewish.

That doesn’t really work anymore. Whereas five years ago, Jewish activists would brigade up and mass-edit Wikipedia to make every famous person in history a Jew, today you almost never see their religious heritage mentioned.

We’re winning this war, gentlemen.

Corvinus
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Corvinus

“There is a reason that God Himself called them “Stiff-necked.” (He did not add “jackwads.” but He could have….)” Just like on your blog, similar to our host, you do not offer the proper context. As it is figuratively used, both in the Old Testament and in the New Testament, the word means “stubborn,” “untractable,” “not to be led.” The derivation of the idea was entirely familiar to the Jews, with whom the ox was the most useful and common of domestic animals. It was especially used for such agricultural purposes as harrowing and plowing (Judges 14:18; 1 Corinthians 9:9).… Read more »

Carl B.
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Carl B.

Gotta feel a little(very little)sorry for Gabbard. She belongs to the party of the Stepford Bitches and the Beta Male. Last night’s SOTU speech made it apparent to anyone with an IQ greater than room temperature that the ‘Rat Party is now the Communist Party USA and its members are society’s defectives, losers, and the insane.

John Badger
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John Badger

Puttin me in the bioleninist mood, Carl B.

https://bloodyshovel.wordpress.com/2017/11/14/biological-leninism/

Shrugger
Guest
Shrugger

Anti-anti-semitism conditioning is right up there, next to color-blindness conditioning, for most of us Boomers. Tough to shed.

Member

Yes, Trump figures that to mention socialism will get the needed pavlovian response that Boomer Cons will automatically respond to.

Ris Eruwaedhiel
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Ris Eruwaedhiel

I agree. It is ridiculous. We live in a socialist society and have done so since at least the 1930s. It’s about more and more socialism that benefits other people, not oneself.

A hilarious example is when a constitutional conservative complains about socialized medicine. Uhh, Medicare and Medicaid are socialized medicine. How many people want to abolish these programs at the federal level and then reestablish them at the state, which would be constitutional. These programs have grown through the years. Anyone complaining?

expatriot
Guest
expatriot

I’d call it outright pro-semitic conditioning. When I was back in grade school, in the early 60s, they had us dancing the Hava Nagilah, which is like the Israeli national dance, to the accompaniment of that klezmer-like faux clarinet they play. I can still remember the melody. This was in the lily-white Pacific Northwest, where we hardly even knew what a Jew was. We were literally dancing to their tune, and have been ever since. Yet people who point this out are “aluminum hat wearing conspiracy theorists” that we have to distance ourselves from?

Member

Confirmation: we did that too; at a Catholic grade school in Detroit. If there were any Jews in the nabe I never met any.

Member

Huh, I assumed it was just me because I went to a heavily Jewish middle and high school in NJ.

Interestingly, our band teacher was a strong Christian, and we did a lot of overtly religious Christian pieces in band and choir and nobody appeared to think anything of it. There didn’t seem to be much religious friction in my school But I was in a non-religious phase during high school and some of it could have flown over my head.

A.B. Prosper
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A.B. Prosper

I’m from rural Colorado and while we didn’t do the philo-semite thing in school as our text books were from the early 60’s and older, many were borderline copybooks (I’m Gen X BTW ) Holocaust material was everywhere I suspect the Israel lobby will be in for a rude surprise in a few years. The diversity while not always antisemitic have no particular concern for Israel and as the Boomers sand older Gen X die off the edifice they created will go with them. WW2 is more than three generations in the past now I also suspect that that White… Read more »

Member

I’ve had much mirth using “counter-semitism”.

As in “I don’t see what’s wrong with counter semitism” – all of a sudden the issue has been switched to: “What is the program of the jews that we need to counter?”

Member

I would love to see the United Socialist States of America get out of the Middle East. My first inclination is to withdraw from the influence of our parasitic government wherever possible. Truth is reality unless obscured by individual rationalization. Nothing new under the sun.

Wolf Barney
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Wolf Barney

For the last couple of years, Tulsi Gabbard has been the one Democrat who I thought could defeat Trump in 2020. Besides being good-looking, she comes across as very likeable and sensible. Since she served in Iraq, her stance against war carries weight, compared to some weird peacenik. I hope she stays in the race, so more of the public can see what (((they’re))) doing to this attractive and appealing woman and it becomes more obvious who’s running things.

Member

The question becomes how to get rid of the parasites without killing the host.

DeBeers Diamonds
Guest
DeBeers Diamonds

Redeker Plan

Give them a new host, like the Saudis

Member

Well, after a 20 year hiatus of not voting because there is no sense to it, I went out and voted for Trump. Ok Apathy Central, I am back. How about that Superbowl! I knew we wouldn’t just vote ourselves out of this but my God, we are back to arguing for legal immigration good, illegal bad again? Also I am just mind numbed on this incessant Holocaust drivel. Were there no other noble survivors in that war that ended even before I was born? I will leave the jew stuff alone, what’s the point anyways. I think Trump, if… Read more »

John Badger
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John Badger

The harder-edged sites posit “Holocaustianity,” i.e., the left making the Holocaust the center of a new politically-correct, Parenthesees-controlled religion, in which the Holocaust is the central event, much like the crucifixion in Christianity. I laughed at it as over the top at the time, but it stuck in my mind, and the evidence accumulates…

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

With MLK as St. Paul

Kevin Balch
Member

This was obvious when Trump groveled before AIPAC before he even got the nomination. I still voted for him because Clinton did the same the very next night and because if Trump had lost, anyone trying to resurrect the issues of immigration, bad trade deals and endless wars would be dismissed with the words “those issues were settled in the 2016 election”. The fix was obvious with his cabinet nominations, almost every on of which seemed to go wrong and finally, the cruise missile attack on Syria. I warned others not to fall in love with this guy and can… Read more »

Yves Vannes
Member

Their influence about what we do “over there” is significant but of secondary importance to us icky types. Their influence in affairs “over here” is what is driving us to the eruption point.

Citizen of a Silly Country
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Citizen of a Silly Country

Yeah, it’s not Jewish influence over our policy toward the Israeli-Syrian border that bothers me; it’s their influence over the U.S.-Mexico border that pisses me off.

SidVic
Member
SidVic

Yes, my attitude was that the small wars kept our military in fighting form at the very least. Until my sons became military age.

Member

Well, it got them used to losing, and wearing dresses.

O Gangster
Guest
O Gangster

Tucker Carlson gets a lot of mention as of late by many of the websites I frequent (including this one). I’m careful to begin praising anyone anymore. In my mind he has two directions he can go: he will turn into Ann Coulter OR he will turn into Paul Ryan. Or maybe instead of Ryan it is more fair to say he turns into Rand Paul, a sellout. One thing i know, he likely won’t stay “in place”.

Carl B.
Guest
Carl B.

Tucker has no use for Ryan or the Republican Party.

Kevin Balch
Member

Your reservations are appropriate. Anyone on a “mainstream” platform is suspect.

Dirtnapninja
Guest
Dirtnapninja

Its interesting. The Jews feel less and less obligated to conceal their power as awareness of that power grows. Its as if they are saying to us “yeah youre onto us. So lets drop the pretenses. We do run show, and there is nothing you can do about it. Now obey, or else” What this does show is that Jewish moral authority is rotting. And as as it rots, they fall back on naked power. Heres the thing tho…moral authority always decays first, with physical power following behind. I predict that the Jewish Raj will be over by the 2070’s.… Read more »

Larkin Lover
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Larkin Lover

I believe the raj will end too, probably around 2050, mainly due to interbreeding. The smartest set of Jews are almost all married to Asians or anglos. I predict the future elite will be more Asian in character and less ethnocentric. Politics will start to look more like Singapore or Brazil. We’ll have this weird amalgam elite, Anglo Asian Jewish hybrid

Alzaebo
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Alzaebo

Live by the Kalergi sword, die by the Kalergi sword- Zardoz always wins in the end.

Larkin Lover
Guest
Larkin Lover

Great movie

Member

Bad enough that Jewish interests have enormous influence over American foreign policy. But even worse is the effort to essentially outlaw the BDS (boycott, sanction, divest) movement within the United States. Even if one is vaguely pro-Israel, the effort to shut down dissenting voices and repeal portions of the First Amendment is frightening. Chateau Heartiste has suggested the use of the term “counter-Semite” to describe people who have no objection to Jews as Jews, but who oppose the effect that Jews have on both foreign and domestic public policies.

DeBeers Diamonds
Guest
DeBeers Diamonds

The question should be honestly asked of those Jews in our countries who devote so much time and effort to Israel. If you love them so much, why aren’t you living there? Why are your sons not serving in the IDF?

If you don’t being attacked for ‘dual loyalties’, why not give up the second passport?

An honest response can’t be expected from them, but others will not be OK with this hypocrisy. It’s not 1948 anymore with poor refugees. It’s 2019 where Israel is now richer than Japan per capita.

Kevin Balch
Member

I question whether the state of Israel would be viable without American foreign aid/military intervention, holocaust-related extortion, organized crime revenue, industrial espionage and remittances from diaspora. It has run a trade deficit for decades yet the Shekel is not a reserve currency like the dollar.

Member

I’ve been using counter semite for at least five years, good to see it’s getting picked up.

Al from da Nort
Guest
Al from da Nort

Z Man; One way of combatting the Cloud Folk ‘Doctrine of Endless War’ is to highlight it’s destructive economic stupidity for all Americans but the Davoisie. How dumb is it to be World Cop and not get paid for it_? ‘Reverse/perverse Imperialism’ as I liked to call it is yet another host-killing parasitic innovation to thank the Clintons for (besides selling our defense technology to the Chicoms in exchange for campaign contributions). In the bad old days, imperialism was using military force to take over other countries’ cash flow. Under Clinton I, they used our military to take over other… Read more »

Luddite
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Luddite

I am ambivalent to the plight of “da jooos” but am supportive of Israel for the same reason I support the UK and Japan: they all serve as an unsinkable aircraft carrier for projection of American hegemony in their respective regions. If the political climate there, or in any of the aforementioned nation states, happened to change to the point they are of no further use to US foreign policy, I would not care if they get turned into a glass parking lot.

Kevin Balch
Member

Mighty nice of them to supply an “unsinkable aircraft carrier” as we “defend” them. Perhaps they will also hold our coat as well.

Fred Zeppelin
Guest

There’s no such thing as “anti-semitism.” It’s a made-up wizard-word, a magic spell designed to pre-empt and derail rational analysis. In the same way, there is no such thing as “anti-tuberculosis” as a moral valence, in the sense of ascribing a negative, pathologically evil moral valence to the simple wish to not die of tuberculosis. If your house was being constantly bombarded by artillery shells and you complained to me about it, and my response was to point and shriek, and yell “You’re just a slimy anti-artillerist!”, well… what good would that do? What truth is there in that?

Citizen of a Silly Country
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Citizen of a Silly Country

Yeah, sorry Z-Man but I instinctively question anyone who seriously uses the terms “anti-Semite” or “anti-semitism.”

They are words used to control and bully. Personally, I don’t like getting pushed around so Jews can take their magic words and shove it up their asses.

Kevin Balch
Member

Very similar to the purpose of the “racism” charge used by blacks which is understandable when you consider who invented the term “racism” and who basically ran the NAACP for years. When blacks actually ran the NAACP, they nearly went broke and had to be bailed out.

Corvinus
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Corvinus

Southern elites called plantation owners invented the term racism. They were quite brutal in its application.

Xopher Halftongue
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Xopher Halftongue

Corvinus doesn’t know how to use Google Ngram viewer

Xopher Halftongue
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Xopher Halftongue

(((Who))) indeed…

Alzaebo
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Alzaebo

Racism is a j-word to beat you over the head, too

Mike_C
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Mike_C

“It’s a made-up wizard-word, a magic spell designed to pre-empt and derail rational analysis.”

Indeed. A Palestinian of my acquaintance once said to me, “If I oppose Israeli ‘settlements’ then I am called an ‘anti-Semite’. But *I* as an Arab *am* a Semite. So being against settlers makes me against myself?”

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

Exactly.

It’s like how they throw around homophobe and islamophobe and “racism”, and everybody then runs around like an idiot trying to atone for their sins.

I don’t irrationally fear homosexuals – I don’t like them – there’s a difference.

I don’t irrationally fear Muslims. I don’t like their belief system and I tend to avoid things that blow up unexpectedly, so I keep my distance. Neither of these are an irrational fear.

Ris Eruwaedhiel
Guest
Ris Eruwaedhiel

There are three different definitions of a “bigot” that I know of:
1) Someone practicing sociology without a license;
2) Someone refusing to kowtow to minority demands; and
3) Someone winning an argument with a liberal.

CaptainMike
Guest
CaptainMike

Anyway, been nice knowing you Zman. I fully expect you to be Stuxnet-ed off teh intrawebz by COB today. I’ll look for mimeograph copies of your essays nailed to telephone poles in Lagos. Too much noticing cannot go unpunished.

El Eff
Guest
El Eff

Captain Mike (and ZMan): “They” have taken down web sites in the recent past that do not “conform” to the progressive, globalist, neocon, NWO, (insert your flavor here) agenda(s). The website case that I know about is run by former CIA agent Michael Scheuer and for years his web site was “non-intervention(dot)com”. Scheuer has been, for years, sick to the back teeth with the perfidious influence of the numerous pro Israeli lobby(s) in the United States. In July of 2018 Go Daddy “vanished” Scheuer’s web site. It took Scheuer about a month to find a new “conduit” (whatever Go Daddy… Read more »

Nathan
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Nathan

I was wondering what happened to Scheuer’s site.

Saml Adams
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Saml Adams

Maybe it came from being schooled my old Realpolitik’ers, but have always been of the mind that nations have interests, period. Interests will create some strange bedfellows, but there is nothing anti-Semitic about pointing out that our and Israel’s interests may converge or diverge at different times. On the other hand grew up with a great aunt who survived 5 years in slave labor camps and a great uncle that liberated several Dachau sub camps–I will always have a degree of sympathy for watching out for ones own interests.

Nathan
Guest
Nathan

My heart bleeds. Did your grandaddy liberate Auschwitz, too? The so-called Holocaust is ancient history to me. Why it has to be the center of the discussion even now is just more proof that Jews have a wildly disproportionate amount of power in the West. I can’t question immigration, homosexualism, wars for Israel, or anything else tearing the US apart without getting called a “Nazi.” Excuse me if I’m sick of Holocaustianity.

Larkin Lover
Guest
Larkin Lover

I think part of the reason for this is that everyone in elite American circles is close to some Jew, either as a colleague or quite often as a subordinate in some capacity. You also encounter the form of crypsis where the spouse of a Jewish person takes on the entire set of opinions of the standard Jewish american(it happens this way much more than the reverse, although there are exceptions).People want their own lives to run smoothly so they refrain from criticism of Israel and Jewish influence. You don’t want to upset your Jewish friends(especially not bosses and donors!)… Read more »

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

That’s because Jews recognize themselves as a people, want that people and culture to survive and are willing to fight for it. Gentile whites lost that along the way somewhere, so we’re sitting ducks for anyone willing to band together and sacrifice for a larger cause.

Jews were just the first group to take advantage of white’s loss of self, but other groups are following in their footsteps, albeit more clumsily.

Vegetius
Guest
Vegetius

As the ZioCons slither across the aisle, we should be pounding this wedge into the left 24/7 without ever using the J-word.

In the enemy camp there is a population of young people with views on foreign policy similar to the Paulists, and since they are not going to move our way, our goal should be to push them towards the DSA.

Personally, I’ve found that referring to the “racist, apartheid Israeli theocracy” seems to work best.

ronehjr
Guest
ronehjr

Since “racist, apartheid Isreal” seems to be working for the Isrealis much better than pre-racist apartheid Isreal, maybe emphasizing the negative is not conducive to what White Americans should be seeking.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

I said a couple of years back that we had reached “Peak Jew” in the United States. For at least 50 years, elite Jews had carte blanche to undermine gentile whites, push multi-everything onto the West and promote Israel. There was zero push-back. Indeed, many upper middle-class gentile whites welcomed the moral superiority that it offered them over working-class whites. (In their defense, influential Jews believed that what they were doing was “Good for the Jews.” I live by the creed of “Is It good for European Americans” so I don’t blame them for trying. I would destroy their people… Read more »

Wolf Barney
Guest
Wolf Barney

The former youtube personality, Frame Games, is a Jew who recognized that nobody in the world will treat Jews better than white people. Frame Games disappeared several months ago, because he feared getting doxxed, but he produced some great content about the importance of a clear white majority. For Jews being so smart, their goal of a multiracial nation is sheer stupidity.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

Ah, but elite Jews managed to decrease the odds of gas chambers in Ohio from 0.000001% to 0.0000001% so it was worth it, at least in their minds.

SidVic
Member
SidVic

Zmans post are a huge new potential red pill for me (whom thought i was thoroughly red-pilled). Zman is suggesting that a command and control structure exists and that a genuine conspiracy is in play, if i read him correctly. I guess i always never believed that more than three guys could get together and keep their mouths shut to pull off a conspiracy. Yet i have come to believe that the communist were a semi-successful conspiracy… So one could say that israel controls US foreign policy, but I would translate it to- the jewish lobby is highly influential. Ahem,… Read more »

Member
Felix_Krull

4-6 million jews were transported to poland, shot and buried in trenches

So where are the mass graves then?

SidVic
Member
SidVic

Don’t know. But i concluded that Irving is compulsively honest autist who was looking at the source material of the Reich. Have decided that you gottta trust someone. So i identify people who seem honest in the face of persecution and decide to trust them. Anyways if they can suppress gaschambers built after the fact- they can supress a few bones drug in by a dog in eastern poland.

Member
Felix_Krull

Irving folded.

I can’t blame him, seeing what they did to him, but that’s the truth of it. He changed his opinion on the Holocaust, but he didn’t provide any reason for his change of mind, no new evidence.

They can supress a few bones drug in by a dog in eastern poland.

Six million bodies is not ‘a few bones’, and they suppress forensic archaeology by declaring extermination camps Holy Ground for Hebrews – even touching them would be anudda Shoah.

SidVic
Member
SidVic

Hell, let a guy keep a few necessary rationalizations man. I would ask if your best guess, or do you have direct knowledge? Thanks.

SidVic
Member
SidVic

“PS they suppress forensic archaeology by declaring extermination camps Holy Ground for Hebrews” So they are suppressing the existence of mass graves, and thus Irving could be on the money?

Member
Felix_Krull

I would ask if your best guess, or do you have direct knowledge? Thanks.

I only note that Irving changed his mind on the scale of the Holocaust without providing any new evidence to explain why.

So they are suppressing the existence of mass graves, and thus Irving could be on the money?

I suppose he could.

But suppressing evidence of the Holocaust is hardly their usual MO.

Mind you, I have no doubt that the Nazis murdered tens of thousands of Jews, but six million? That’s quite a claim, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

SidVic
Member
SidVic

Your question prompted my memory. I think he found a german officer letters appalled that his work jews were killed using bullets and dumped in a bulldozer dug trench. The germans requisitioned efficient machinguns and lots of bullets for east poland after front moved on ; and he found records where about 4-6 mill jews were taken (the germans called it sluiced) to eastern poland. Finally 6 million people is alot but they would fit into cube measuring ~230 ft on each side; not that big (this is if one assumes the average person occupies 2 sq ft of volume… Read more »

Member
Felix_Krull

He already knew that Jews were being machinegunned, when he appeared before Justice Gray in Irving vs. Lipstadt in 2000. This was never a contentious issue for Holocaust revisionists, the documentation is abundant from letters and diaries and it’s even mentioned in a few official SS reports. Irving also recognized that people were gassed – using gas vans – experimentally, since execution details sapped troop morale. He described the gas van operation in some detail and, pressed by the defense, offered a guesstimate of 1,500-2,000 gas van victims, until the gas operations were stopped for practical reasons. He refused to… Read more »

Member
Felix_Krull

he found records where about 4-6 mill jews were taken (the germans called it sluiced) to eastern poland. I would be interested in a link showing those numbers, but the Osttransporten – the Eastern Transports – is not a contentious issue for Holocaust revisionists either. What Irving, and others, believe, is that those Jews were being transported to Poland in preparation to being expelled to rump Russia after the war was won. Furthermore, Irving believes that the Polish massacres started because while victory eluded Germany, the Nazis kept sending Jews to Eastern Poland, and the concentration camps were overflowing, so… Read more »

Member
Felix_Krull

And just to clarify: there are four main contentions in mainstream Holocaust revisionism:

1) The number murdered Jews is less than six million.

2) There was no centrally organized program for murdering Jews, it happened ad hoc.

3) There were no homicidal gas chambers.

4) Hitler himself did not know that large numbers of Jews were being murdered.

Subscribing to any of these beliefs can get you prison time in several European countries.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Sidvic, what matters is not what I believe, but what they believe.

Since examining the counter claims, I’ve come to the conclusion that they’re getting revenge for something they made up, whether cynically or sincerely.

Revenge for a setback in a war they started, even.

I don’t matter, the why doesn’t matter, the evidence doesn’t matter.

What matters is that the revenge continues.

I’d be perfectly happy to ignore any Other’s beliefs if he stays in his own yard. All I want is the attacks and blood libel to stop.

SidVic
Member
SidVic

Point well taken, but… I think it important to try (at least) to understand how things actually work . It might not effect ability to predict future but is important for strategy. For instance, are we dealing with 20 super-villains or a loose confederation of 10,000 minor villains? The mayhem caused might be identical. But your strategy for countering them effectively may hinge on this understanding. Hope you see this alzaebo, fun talking with smart ppl. Willing to bet you gifted academic. I coin my concept sid’s law in case it unique haha.

Mike_C
Guest
Mike_C

“Twenty super villains vs 10k minor villains.”

Why can’t it be both?

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

That would explain outmarriage to nonwhites as the camoflague instinct at work, preparing for the future.

Earlier examples would be:
*Anglicized names and marriage
*Conquistador land barons
*Donmeh branches ruling Wahabbi Saudi Arabia and Ottoman Turkey
*Rotfront “converts” to the National Socialists, especially their propaganda and supply departments
*Numerous Biblical examples, such as Joseph and the erased Hyksos period in Egypt
*The State Dept., Queen’s Privy Council, and SERCO

The masks don’t matter, only the lineage matters.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

PS- why happily sacrifice their own?
To accomplish the greater goal at the End of Time:

All of Abraham’s seed will be resurrected, as rulers of this world.

TomA
Guest
TomA

Most Americans are not going to wake up to the pathology that is the federal government until times get tough and real hardship returns to daily life. Too many of us are now afflicted with “The Comfort First Imperative” because modern life in the US is very comfortable for most people. This means that whining will always take priority over tangible action. No one is going to go “yellow vest” over endless war until they feel the consequences in the first person. Hint, Macron is scared and it may be time to get the fat ass off the sofa.

Larkin Lover
Guest
Larkin Lover

Right, you have to feel it in your belly.(hunger)

Member

The weird thing about the Russian interference claim is how many of the neocons are themselves first or second generation Russians, coincidentally obsessed with controlling the world by controlling the Bosporus.

Member

They are generally (((Russians))).

Kevin Balch
Member

This is why I believe that, though Trump may be impeached, it is unlikely that he will be removed from office. Being labelled a “Russian puppet” while really being an Israeli puppet is the ultimate in misdirection and highly useful.

tonaludatus
Guest
tonaludatus

“…the phrase “Kremlin controlled” or “Putin Stooge” is code for anti-Semite. Anytime you hear the usual suspects linking an enemy with Russia, they are speaking from tribal interests, not Americans ones.”

Anybody who has read anything about East-European Jewish history would know that the Jews of historical Poland, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Polish%E2%80%93Lithuanian_Commonwealth_(1569%E2%80%931648) and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmelnytsky_Uprising, had a lot more problems in Ukraine and with Ukrainians than in Russia or with Russians.

DeBeers Diamonds
Guest
DeBeers Diamonds

I’ve been a conspiracist probably since I’ve been engaged with politics starting sometime in grade school. We used to have this illusion that if people were “woken up” that change would be demanded and happen. But that didn’t happen, and it had a lot to do with personal dislike for those promoting such theories. Its not fun, but we have to hold ourselves accountable. Conservatives at large in the present day bought the lies of the last three decades of war. It’s not surprising that we are so hated. Collective guilt is real whether we like it or not. That’s… Read more »

Steve
Member
Steve

According to opensecrets.org the top 25 individual contributors during the 2016 campaign contributed over $610 million. 15 of them were Jews, and they contributed over $429 million, or 70%. The numbers for 2018 were $556 million and $417 million, or 75%. Some of these Jews (Adelson, Singer, etc.) are Republican donors, but I doubt any of them (or for that matter, any of the non-Jewish big donors) are even mildly opposed to US policy w.r.t. Israel. Follow the money. Trump could go his own way due to his wealth (though he has familial “complications”), but the vast majority of Congresscritters… Read more »

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

True, Jews control a huge portion of the money distributed to politicians and that gives them huge control over politicians of any color or religion.

That said, it’s one thing to have control over a people who look like you, think like you, have a similar culture to yours and, generally, like you (gentile whites). It’s quite another thing to forcibly control a people who are of a different race/tribe (and know it), think very differently from you, have a very different culture (and religion that matters to them) from you and, generally, hate you.

Steve
Member
Steve

When “our guy” said the our mission in Syria is to protect Israel and then the Senate passed S.1 (i.e., the first, and presumably what they consider the most important, legislation to be taken up by the new Senate) the ‘Strengthening America’s Security in the Middle East Act of 2019,'” I would say we can get a good idea of the priorities in Washington by reading it. The bill “calls upon the Administration to certify that conditions have been met for the enduring defeat of al Qaeda and ISIS before initiating any significant withdrawal of United States forces from Syria… Read more »

tonaludatus
Guest
tonaludatus

billions and billions and billions, are you sure?

Steve
Member
Steve

Corrected to millions. Thanks for the proof read…

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

How much of the abortion lobby money comes from this direction? (I suspect quite a bit of it).

JohnTyler
Guest
JohnTyler

Israel does not “control” US foreign policy in the ME, but it certainly influences it. The USA has had troops in S.Korea since 1950; does this mean the S.Koreans control US policy in that region? The USA has bases/sailors/marines in Japan since 1945; does that mean Japan controls US policy there? And of course, the USA is the biggest member of NATO; an organization that defends Europe from the 20 year dead USSR; does that mean that the Euros control US policy there? Oh, and let’s not forget about the zillion other US military bases scattered about the globe, like… Read more »

Kevin Balch
Member

Jews are among the forefront of those saying that America “cannot go back to being an isolationist nation”. Obviously, this is a safe way of defending US involvement in the ME to Israel’s direct benefit. However, US involvement in areas far from the ME also provide tangible benefits for Israel in that they are able to leverage US influence to Israeli benefit on UN votes, military cooperation, economics, “fighting anti-semitism” etc. If the Israelis are such great friends of ours, you should review the Lavon Affair, the USS Liberty attack, the Pollard case and why Israel would sell arms to… Read more »

Kevin Balch
Member

In fact, I am not sure how you concluded that Wilson was an anti-semite. Contrary to popular opinion, Christian southerners of the period were extremely philo-semitic. In fact, it was remarkable that a white jury actually took the word of a black man and convicted a Jew in the Leo Frank case. This only started to change with heavy Jewish involvement in the civil rights movement in the 1940s. Wilson himself appointed Louis Brandeis to the SCOTUS and Bernard Baruch to a position of essentially overseeing the US economy during WW1.

SidVic
Member
SidVic

Yes Charleston SC was a jewish city and even fielded a jewish regiment for the south in the civil war. I stumbled across this when i was searching a database of the prevalence of the name Cohen in usa counties in 1884. Charleston popped up as having alot of cohens .. so i looked into it and discovered the history. And no i am not autistic, it was website that collated census data on surnames and was popular and intersting.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

The North was to be annexed to Commonwealth Canada, under the control of Lionel Rothschild.

The South was to be annexed to Napolean lll’s France, under the control of James Rothschild.

Lincoln fought back, too late, with the greenback, and was assassinated by a member of the Knights of the Golden Circle.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Charleston, a slave port. Huh.
Was the synagogue right by the auction block like Newport, R.I.?

SidVic
Member
SidVic

I don’t know but it was funny. I bought a house in charleston and was perplexed when several people asked me if i were jewish. Later i found a weird box on the door that upon examination yielded a tiny scroll- a mezuza- i learned. I had moved into a traditionally jewish neighborhood! and that was why people were wondering if i was jewish. I almost decided to go with to get the kids in the jewish school. I could on for hours about the antics i (hillbilly) got up to with my elderly jewish neighbors. They were cool old… Read more »

JR Wirth
Guest
JR Wirth

What amazes me about certain evangelicals, not all of them by any means, is that they truly believe for the end of the world to come about (the return of Christ) that the State of Israel has to exist, as the Book of Revelation describes. Suddenly a religion that’s supposed to be timeless and stateless becomes tied to time and place. They won’t kill off Christianity, but huge numbers of millennials are rejecting this outright, and current Evangelical enclaves are being turned into atheist wastelands in a very short amount of time. This also affects the politics of the region… Read more »

Kevin Balch
Member

Trying to apply logic to religion is a fools errand. The bible is so full of contradictions that you can use it to justify or condemn any position on any issue.

JR Wirth
Guest
JR Wirth

I agree. Many contradictions, a literalist would go bananas. Hence con-men preachers tying it to various current affairs.

The bible always has to be seen they way you view old actresses on TV, through a gauze lens.

Kevin Balch
Member

Seems we have some bible thumpers here.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

So? It’s an attempt at a reliable guideline, based on good intentions. They’re trying to help.

Screwtape
Guest
Screwtape

Isreal is an outsized beneficiary of the conditioning if the normie masses, but its when viewed through the lens of Progress, she is far from alone in the displacement of ‘interests’ both personal and national. I reckon that its the former that should be the focus of any rebellion. I.e. how can zion be called out when we can’t even acknowledge the war against founding stock white christian culture on our own soil? I won’t deny the money, power, and influence of this minority, but the disease is much bigger. Da joos wear the badge; they are at the top… Read more »

WarrenDee Skill
Member

“She’s young, good looking, heterodox in her politics, without straying too far afield. She served in the military, which is now a weird badge of honor for female politicians. She is the female Barak Obama.” Barack Obama is the female Barack Obama.

JR Wirth
Guest
JR Wirth

I’ve often wondered, and I’m sure I’ll be flagged in Tel Aviv for saying this, about Sheldon Adelson in particular, who owns a casino empire in Las Vegas and Macau. These GOP candidates make a bee-line for his office to load up before they run. As we all know, money is fungible. Especially cash. A casino is a powerful tool to move money, it’s very bank like. I wonder how much money Israeli citizens are losing at his baccarat tables, if you know what I mean. I could be wrong, but it’s beyond logical to assume that. I wonder if… Read more »

DeBeers Diamonds
Guest
DeBeers Diamonds

Adelson’s success in the casino business was making Vegas into a business convention destination. Laundering by the Chinese via Macau and Singapore would probably be orders of magnitude larger. Ironically Adelson is suspected in Israel of making illegal donations to Likud.

The Israelis pushing money around in US politics are mostly dual-citizens with the US, or dual-citizens with Russia. So on paper it isn’t “foreign money”.

There are known cases where Jewish charity was used for money laundering, but most of the donorism vis-a-vis Israel is just the Occam’s Razor that Jews are willing to write the checks.

JR Wirth
Guest
JR Wirth

Vegas was a convention town long before Adelson. He added to it, but he didn’t make it what it is. No one writes checks just to write checks. I highly doubt all the funding is from Adelson himself. That’s what I’m saying, and I wouldn’t be surprised that some of that money makes it back to Israeli politicians. Money is a far more effective weapon than any artillery shell, and it would be perfectly natural for a country such as Israel to do what it’s doing. I don’t blame them.

Kevin Balch
Member

Post WW2 Las Vegas is largely a Jewish creation.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Well, last night’s SOTU pretty much convinced me that Jared Kushner is the President of the United States.

Kevin Balch
Member

I was getting tired of winning anyway. We’ve won an embassy in Jerusalem, billions more to Israel, increased liklihood of war with Iran and Venezuela, more bloated defense spending, an arms race with Russia and just recently, a new anti-semitism czar. MAGA!

Member
Felix_Krull

Don’t forget the corporate tax cuts.

Luddite
Guest
Luddite

Moses wandered the desert for 40 years, and settled in the one spot that has no oil: imagine how different the world would be if he had wandered just a little while longer.

Member

You can either be against the Anti-semites or you can be a patriotic American.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

A twitter favorite:

“So how many yids do I gotta fumigate to…?”

Ricotta Ravioli
Guest

It’s an unfortunate but true fact, so long-ingrained that it probably makes no sense to apportion guilt or blame over the matter, as it’s now probably more a matter of unthinking habit than malicious deceit, but still, it’s the truth… Jews as a people tell themselves a false and self-serving, fake historiography about themselves, which in some cases is a mere matter of naive folk-belief, but which in many, many other cases is deliberately weaponized against host populations in order to excuse and normalize what would otherwise be seen by any sane, neutral, clear-eyed observer as being hostile, malignant, parasitical,… Read more »

Gentile
Guest
Gentile

Our entire civilization was birthed by people who retained the moral authority to expel jews, when necessary, for over a thousand years. Now they are expelling us, only not having the burden of Christian decency they have no plans of giving us anywhere to go.

Gravity Denier
Guest
Gravity Denier

I was once invited to attend a service at a synagogue. Although a lot of the ritual was strange to me, I didn’t find anything objectionable about it. Possibly some of the congregation (I don’t know the Jewish term) found it helpful in their search for God, as much as Christians might get some benefit from their own ceremonies. But then came the rabbi’s sermon (again, I don’t know if that is the correct terminology). What an unbelievable collection of persecution anecdotes, including of course the Holocaust! I can’t help feeling that Jews have so internalized paranoia that it’s like… Read more »

Lorenzo
Guest
Lorenzo

After reading some of the comments here, I can see why Jews might get paranoid.

Joey
Guest
Joey

Decades ago, Alfred W. Lilienthal, a Jewish author, wrote and had published the almost 1000 page book, THE ZIONIST CONNECTION-WHAT PRICE PEACE .
Still available.
Consequently, he suffered.
Was he anti Semitic??????

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

It’s payback for the Nissei death camps in Nevada.

Brooklyn Jews saved the USA in WWll, we should show some gratitude.

Brooklyn
Guest
Brooklyn

“That’s the issue with the theory that Israel controls American foreign policy. It would be a lot easier to dismiss the claims if they were not true.” The problem with the theory is that its not so much Israel that’s doing the influencing as much as it is neoconservative Jews in leadership positions. Those two are not quite the same thing. I’d bet that if you took a list of what Israel would actually like to get done and what the neoconservatives think the Israelis should do, that US policy follows the second rather than the first. “They will forgive… Read more »

Member

Sadly, no. You’d think the Israelis would not be comfortable with the chaos and violence the Neocons are spreading all around them. That would be true if the Neocons/Israelis just wanted a status quo peace and stability. But they don’t, at least not before they genocide the Palestinians. To accomplish that will require a certain amount of regional disorder.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

The globalist faction made Israel as a holding pen, a penal colony, in which to corral their more patriotic nationalist brethern.

Sean Detente
Member

Yeah well, ask any millennial or even Gen-X’er how many died on the American sectors of the D-day landing or even the totality of deaths during the war…and you’ll get widely varying answers. But that Holohoax death toll…they recite the 6 million like a Hello World!

Nachum
Guest
Nachum

The appealing thing about conspiracy theories is that they’re so *neat*. Every problem, in one area or in *every* area, can be easily explained with one explanation. And if there’s a flaw in the theory, well, that’s all just part of the conspiracy. What’s interesting here is that Z-Man acknowledges causes for these things other than the Jooooz. (Sorry, “Israel.”) Gabbard’s problem was clearly that she stood up for Catholics and against teh gays (and blasted two senators, including one of her own), for which she has grovelled. But nah, must be “Israel.” And sure, support for Israel by Americans… Read more »

avib
Guest
avib

“Anti-Semites, of course, have always made this charge, but usually without much proof. They just hate Jews and by extension hate Israel, so claiming American foreign policy is run by Zionists has an emotional appeal for them.” That’s disingenuous, Z. Be better when talking about the most important issue facing the United States today. Two books make the case pretty clearly: The Passionate Attachment: America’s Involvement With Israel, 1947 to the Present. George Ball, former UnderSecState The Israel Lobby, John Mearsheimer & Stephen Walt Both dropped judiciously down the memory hole. Plus myriad articles at Philip Weiss’s blog, Mondoweiss Michael… Read more »

Gentile
Guest
Gentile

“Hating jews” of course means not happily being Tikkun Olamed into ground dirt and scattered to the four winds.

Luckily God sent his only Son to let those who would listen know rejection of Tikkun Olam would now be loving in His eyes. Loving towards jews, towards gentiles and towards all of creation.

NITZAKHON
Guest

I absolutely DESPISE my fellow Jews who are “tikkun olam” Jews. They are, under the cover of “doing good” vis a vis migration, immigration, etc., doing calamitous harm to Western Civilization to feed their dopamine addiction.

http://redpilljew.blogspot.com/2018/01/the-islamic-invasion-and-spanish.html

Member

“Memory hole” is overused. The Mearsheimer-Walt book has definitely not been forgotten about Avib.

Member

I will likely support the Hindu love goddess in the primary and vote for her in the general, if by any deal chance she gets the nomination.

Trump was the first nominee who addressed domestic issues I cared about. Prior to Trump walking down the escalator, I just picked in the general election the candidate who was least likely to get us into a new war.

Now that Trump is acting as a fill in for Jeb Bush, I don’t care if he wins re-election unless he is more anti war than the Democrat.

Xopher Halftongue
Guest
Xopher Halftongue

(((NeverTrump))) and (((Neocons))) oh my!

NITZAKHON
Guest

Writing as a Zionist Jew… (and donning my asbestos underwear): 1. I truly wish that, over some period of time not to exceed ten years, Israel would be completely weaned off of American aid. This is because the road goes two ways; yes, Israel does wield a lot of influence… but the aid comes with its own strings. As someone who would like to see Israel as an independent country, truly independent but an ally not client state, aid needs to decrease and finally be ended. 2. This is not to say that Israel is not an ally; but it’s… Read more »

Mike_C
Guest
Mike_C

This is most exceedingly well said.

Too many points to get into despite it being a clear and concise statement. (At least while I’m stealing a moment to respond while between presentations at the conference I’m presently attending.)

I would say on a serious note that if the majority of Jews in the US in particular and the West in general shared your perspective there would be far less “anti-Semitism” of the sort in prior comments here. On a light hearted note, bonus points for the Mote in God’s Eye reference.

NITZAKHON
Guest

We exist. At least here in America we’re a minority, but we do exist. I was talking with a friend at Shul and he’d gone to minyan (evening prayers) and said there are more of us than you’d think. Still, as I said, a minority… The problem is that so many JINOs have put their dopamine tikkun olam addiction above their Judaism – for while Judaism does say “love the stranger as yourself” from what I’ve read the “stranger” is already living among you, and comporting to your society’s rules. NOTHING I’ve ever seen, nor any persons I know have… Read more »

NITZAKHON
Guest

I was wondering if anyone would catch the Motie reference.

Sam J.
Guest
Sam J.

“…Anti-Semites, of course, have always made this charge, but usually without much proof…” There’s massive, massive amounts of proof but it would take an encyclopedia book to recount. Here’s one of the most blatant. On 9-11 building 7 fell the same speed as a rock dropped in air for around 108 feet. This is not possible unless the structure holding up building 7 is the EXACT same density as that holding up a rock dropped in air. Only air. No building columns, no concrete and steel, no sheet rock, nothing. Well we all know the building wasn’t floating in the… Read more »

Muthaucker
Guest
Muthaucker

Actually Mexico and China run the show in the US.