The Fraud Of Democracy

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One of the features of the current year is the regular reminder that western style democracy is a complete fraud. According to the political class, democracy allows for public policy to reflect the will of the people. The parties put forward candidates offering various policy proposals and the public signals their preferences by voting for one or the other candidates. The winners then set about trying to implement the policies they proposed. That’s how we’re told representative democracy works.

In reality, nothing like this happens. Instead, the parties put on a show for the voters, rarely intending to actually do what they claim. Instead, they manufacture differences between one another, so they can pretend the choice before the voters is stark. Once the election is over, the politicians go back to living their lives of leisure, waiting for instructions from the people who actually run things. The politicians are like robot actors, brought out for elections, then put back in storage.

The obvious example of this is the most recent American presidential election in which Donald Trump scored a stunning upset on the promise to reduce immigration, crackdown in illegal immigration and address the gross inequality resulting from globalization. So far, none of that has been done. Instead, he spent most of his presidency fighting a seditious coup to get him out of office. In fact, Trump’s three years are pretty much what Jeb Bush promised when he was running in the 2016 primary.

Notice that hardly anyone in either political party is terribly conce3rned about the FBI plot to overturn the election. Sure, there are a few lonely voices on the Republican side asking questions and demanding transparency. They have no support from leadership. On the Democrat side, they are actively colluding with the plotters to cover up the affair. One would think the people subject to the voters would care about the integrity of the process, but you would be wrong. The revealed preferences are on full display.

An ugly as the Trump era has been, it is civil and decent compared to what is happening in Europe. The Italians are now watching their political class submarine the will of the people in an egregious series of deceits by the Five Star Movement. The Italians voted for a populist, anti-EU coalition. Instead, the Five Star Movement cut a deal with the internationalist, pro-EU party to sabotage the nationalists. The result is the exact opposite of what the people voted for in their last election.

In Britain, the government put a choice before the people back in 2016, as to whether remain in the EU or become an independent nation again. The public chose nationhood by a respectable margin. In any democracy, getting 52% of the vote, particularly in a highly popular election, is a solid majority. Here we are, more than three years on, and the political class is still debating whether to accept the election results. In other words, the elected officials are deciding whether the election results matter.

To make matters worse, you now have members of one party actively colluding with members of other parties to undermine the orderly process in Parliament. Up until this week, the “remainers” could plausibly claim they are operating within the democratic process, despite thwarting the will of the people. Britain is not a pure democracy, so the pols have some leeway. Now, they are in active revolt against the system that they are sworn to uphold, in an effort to upend the result of the Brexit referendum.

In all of these cases, the question that never gets asked in the media is who is bribing these people to carry on this way. The most likely reason Five Star finked on its voters is the leaders too bribes from Brussels. In Britain, the “remainers” are certainly on the payroll of global enterprise. Those paymasters are most likely foreign. In the United States, of course, both political parties are wholly owned by the donor party. No one in the media bothers looking into it, as they are owned by the oligarchs as well.

The tell is that these shenanigans always work one way. You’ll never see the party of the globalist suddenly have a crisis of conscience and defect to the nationalists. It’s always the other way. There are no “remainers” siding with the Brexiteers in order to respect the will of the people, despite their own misgivings. In Washington, no globalists have switched teams to support Trump. In the charade that is democracy, the fink is always played by the same character in exactly the same way.

The reason we never see a politician break ranks in order to support the popular will against his own side is that western democracy is a fraud. Elections are a beard worn by the oligarchy to fool the public. The public space is filled with drama and outrage, drawing in the public. It is the circus half of the bread and circuses. Meanwhile, the oligarchs, most of whom are now foreign to the people over whom they rule, exercise the real power of the supposedly national governments of the West.

In the United States, both political parties are funded by the same people. For example, anyone questioning the endless wars for Israel gets pilloried, because Israel runs a massive lobbying operation to buy off both political parties. They work this racket in other Western countries as well. The tech giants operate in violation of the laws and civil order, because they own the politicians of both parties. Of course, the commentariat is being paid by the same people to maintain the fraud.

Every society has an elite. This is the natural state of mankind. In a democracy, this reality is concealed from the public. Instead, it is one man, one vote. The people decide public policy. In reality, it is a handful of men and your votes mean nothing. Worse yet, those oligarchs pulling the strings are wholly unaccountable. They don’t have to answer to the public. Instead, they pay flunkies and coat holders to do it. Democracy is a fraud to distract the public, while their society is looted by oligarchs.

The worst part of it is the public, instead of peering behind the charade to see the string pullers, vents its anger on the actors. In 2016 the public voted against the status quo in the form of Donald Trump. Angry at that result, they voted for his opposition party in 2018, as a punishment against his party for their intransigence. In 2020, the public will probably throw Trump out for someone promising something different, but the result will be the same. The result is always the same. Democracy is a fraud.

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235 thoughts on “The Fraud Of Democracy”

  1. So, I have seen this writer tell us all the problems with Democracy, our ruling class, our two party system…all fairly astute observations, what I have not seen, however, is any suggestions or ideas as to what replaces the current system. I would really like to hear this writers ideas.

  2. To all the democracy ball washers, I say. Name a single democratic country which became a Great Power. Every single country that transitioned from the Third World to First World was an autocracy or at least an oligarchy.

    Democracy is a fraud, a false pretense. People have the right to choose their leaders, democracy advocates claim. But by voting, you are also choosing my leader for me. If there are 49 of me and 51 of you, you are choosing my leader as well. Therefore democracy requires voters to think about the larger long-term good of society. That never happens.

  3. Man ,what is up with this site tonight ? Everything is loading slow as dogshit !

    There was nothing wrong with this country . It was founded by brave and intelligent men backed up by loyal patriots.

    Let statesmen and warrior unite once again.

    ” the following is for entertainment purposes only and should in no way be misconstrued as a call to overthrow our wonderful overlords ”
    :-p

    • It’s a four part undercover series. If you don’t think the US Jewish lobby have obscenely, unbelievably, insanely oversized influence on our government, then you are very ignorant, or there is no reasoning with you. An anti-Zionist Jew went undercover, and mixed with several American Jewish organizations, sometimes with very high level officials, including a woman from Israeli intelligence, on the massive, HIGHLY funded, extremely coordinated and well-planned, extremely technologically advanced, and totally unscrupulous campaign against BDS. You’re not really taking anyone’s word for it, it’s all there in video and audio. Al-Jazeera was successfully pressured not to release the documentary, but it was leaked online. Everyone must strive to rid themselves of Conservatism, Inc.

  5. Even with all the taxpayer subsidized tech, the plutocrats and progressives will lose the future. You don’t suddenly transition from a 1st world to a 3rd world without major strife.

  6. Who wants a white ethno state when it’s going to retain the chains of the said system? Sorry but I pass.

    • Well said, all the chains now are being held by white males. The WN losers will willingly submit to slavery as long as the person cracking the whip is white. Their issue is the skin color of the slave driver not the act of the whip cracking itself.

      The French Revolution was a revolt by white French peasants against their white French lords. The lords were extremely cruel towards the peasants even though they were of the same tribe.

  7. Twilight of the republic has come and gone. It’s death just has not been widely acknowledged yet. Part of the failure of reality promoted by progressives. If the president manages to win in 2020 it will be the last hurrah. 2024 will institute a progressive tyranny as our new form of government unless the vestiges of the old order face reality and act in a coup d’état. The progressive phalanxes must be folded up, arrested and sent to Gitmo.

  9. And yet a lever to be pulled – for every fraudulent election undermines the legitimacy of this corrupt system further.
    Also great for filling out the ranks of dissidents.

    Nice to acknowledge that Trump falls short on the border because he’s been fending off a coup. That he’s done nothing on globalist looting is false. Cancelling TPP at the outset was an enormous blow, not to mention trade war with China and putting the world on notice that trade rape is over.

    I suspect nothing any President, King, Emperor or Dictator would do would satisfy the crowd here, but he’s done more for the commons than has been done since Jackson.

    I think if he’s re-elected most of the wall will happen.

    As for enforcement on immigration he’s hardly done nothing but at present orders aren’t being carried out.

    This election cycle will put matters into sharp relief. When whatever Dem goes to face the voters with Open Borders, free health care for illegals and actual firearms confiscation aka Red Flag laws we’ll see another huge reactionary surge on the right- and more of the political class will defect to us to stay in office. Whoever is elected will find that the center has moved to the wings and there will be no middle road to take😁.

    Our time to win or fail (our=Heritage America) is coming ready or not.

  10. Switzerland is a nation of 3 major language groups; German, French, and Italian. They made it work for a lot longer than the US has been around, Thomas Jefferson got a lot of his ideas from the Swiss Confederation, and formed what we call ourselves as a Federal Republic.
    But the Swiss are also going down the tubes as we speak, mass 3rd world immigration and f’n loony leftists have taken over every single aspect of their lives too. So picking a new form of gov’t won’t matter, until one decides what to do about the leftists and 3rd world immigration being forced on us by our own double duty political party.
    Somebody’s going to get genocided, you decide who.

    • SemperFi, 0321 said: ” So picking a new form of gov’t won’t matter, until one decides what to do about the leftists and 3rd world immigration being forced on us by our own double duty political party.”

      There’s not a damn thing to be done about any of it. Pick something to do with your life and live it.

      • Feeling black pilled? I know the feeling. The red-pill really is something of a curse. I haven’t read any Lovecraft, but doesn’t his fictional world involve an evil realm, which upon setting eyes on it, drives men mad?

        That very much compares to nihilism, to the “death of God” in modernity, to allowing yourself to imagine the bad places this world could go. I’m very pessimistic, but even I’m not 100%. None of us have all the answers, none of us know exactly what is going to happen. Even the extremely intelligent aren’t all that intelligent. To speak of one REALLY intelligent man, Heidegger, my very limited understanding is that he goes DEEP into human thought and understanding, and dissolves many of beliefs we think, or we’ve been taught to believe, are certainties. In doing so, he reopens the space for new understandings and ways of thinking (religion?). I feel kind of bad about some of what I’ve written around here. On the one hand, I want to harden, radicalize, and motivate people, to maximize our chances, but on the other hand, I don’t want to shake anyone’s faith in Christianity, or expose them to the dark possibilities that I personally think may lie ahead, because both of those things have driven me to deep, deep depression, with only occasional breaks, for several years. If I could do anything, I’d spend my life as a pre-Vatican II Carthusian monk, and scrub my mind clean of all that would lead me to doubt it. As you’ve said, having a hobby, finding something you enjoy doing, is paramount. Lately, posting here is one of my central hobbies. Staying cheerful is also important, and remembering that this could possibly shake out for the better, long into the future after all of us are gone perhaps, helps with that.

        Are you religious? On the hand, there’s the romantic image of the tough as nails Nietzshean (some are more individualistic, wanting to live in Schwarzenegger’s ‘The Running Man’ or something (I found that movie kind of nauseating and depressing, and quite corny as well, lol), while I’m more collectivist, I want a tight and harmonious hierarchical community (I’m not a leader, I want better men than myself to take the leadership, and give me good instructions to follow), especially like a medieval religious order (the Teutonic Knights, say, or a contemplative order). Nietzscheanism may be quite nonsensical, however. Heidegger built upon it, but was not a Nietzschean. I’ve never personally known any thoroughgoing Nietzscheans, and it just might be that the human type who can really settle into this type of thinking is mad and disgusting, in which case I’ll abandon it (I’d like to think that I don’t have the stuff of which crazy sociopaths are made), and move toward faith in something.

        Speaking personally, I might go for Eastern Orthodoxy. It could be QUITE the hobby, lol. Their monks pray A LOT, it takes 10 or 20 books to assemble a day’s office, and hours upon hours to pray it all. On top of this, they might pray the Jesus Prayer hundreds or thousands of times in a row, among other prayers and devotions. I can see how all of this could really alter a person’s perception, in very interesting ways. This is my “I’m depressed, need comfort” video for the last year or so, “you’re there” video from one of the ancient monasteries on Mount Athos (the monks often look tired, not surprisingly, lol):

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcMVp3wjS_8

        Much better, check out this interview with a blind, old Carthusian father, a quite thoroughgoing hermit monk.
        Most of their days are spent praying, working, or eating alone in their small houses with enclosed gardens, and they speak to one another freely when they assemble on Sundays and some feast days only (they mainly take walks together through the wilderness during these times, and of course, saying something like “please hold the ladder”, should that come up for them, is allowed at any time) They, too, pray A LOT. This is from an excellent, very long documentary movie that I must have watched 20+ times called ‘Into Great Silence’, that attempts to give you a “you’re there” perspective on living as a Carthusian monk. It’s from the original Carthusian monastery high in the French Alps, the Grand Chartreuse (the Carthusians have basically been there for 900 years):

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkIjQEn7lEE

        I’ve developed a new respect for traditional Protestantism lately that I didn’t used to have, largely because of you and the essays you’ve led me to, but also because of the Amish, who I’ve lived near and seen on many occasions.

        • Prussian said: “Feeling black pilled?” No, not particularly. Being honest and realistic is not the same thing as being dark. The world is what it is. You can either except it or not. But the facts won’t change.

          • It can be hard to detect these things online. Oh well, maybe someone else is black-pilled, and will find what I wrote of use. I’m spending way too much time here lately. This infernal desire for living community, and to speak my mind to people who might actually care to listen, has really been getting the better of me.

  11. OT: For your amusement, my 2 hours of mandatory “Diversity and Inclusion” today. I’ve never experienced this before.

    Class is supposedly non-judgmental discussion. Video where a white man criticizes a female coworker for putting kid in daycare. If I agree, my job would have been jeopardized.

    Video where coworker criticizes another as “old and slow.” If I asked, “Well, is coworker really slow?” I would have endangered my job.

    The instructor had the giggly, shrill affect of a kindergarten teacher, but if I said that I would have been misogynist. Burn it all down!

    • Not bad. Some good ideas and insights in there, but also some liberalism and individualism as well, in my opinion. Words like “liberty” and attacks against submission and obedience have to be properly understood, properly circumscribed. We need to be free of our elite and the status quo they’ve enforced on us, and people need to withdraw their submission to them, absolutely.

      However, what we need in its place is a community united by duty and sacrifice, united by concern among each for the good of the whole, and real willingness to sacrifice in order to serve the good of the whole. Man is a social being*, and carving out and maintaining a harmonious and well defended place for yourself and your group against enemies, internal and external, requires a society of properly developed people (proper in terms of thought and behavior, which is determined by other factors like culture and institutions (and, more broadly, genetics)). The world is a place of struggle, a place of inevitable conflicts of interest, and those who won’t organize and fight for their group will ultimately cease to exist. Society must also be hierarchical, because men are unequal, and the best must lead, and the inferior must regiment themselves and obey. Otherwise the group is poorly led, weak, disordered, dysfunctional, and your group lacks the capacity to maintain itself in this world of struggle. It seems to me that focus on rights and liberty and individualism, rather than duty and obligation and society, undercuts all this, and ultimately threatens the position of one’s group (and with it, one’s individual self, and his or her posterity).

      Any thoughts? Have I given the libertarians brain aneurysms, lol? I was a Mises/Hazlitt Rules-Utilitarian based advocate of the “night-watchman state”, who viewed the British Victorians as the ideal, through my early time in college. When I lost faith that this system would ensure traditional culture and society, and when I lost faith in free trade, I began the search elsewhere.

      *As a social being, he is happiest when rooted in a true community (I’m envisioning Mayberry, but more martial, lol). There are exceptions to this, of course.

  13. Oh wait a minute… this site, the Z man’s site, is supposed to be all about and totally dedicated to “Trump love”. So wait….. so you’re saying “Trump love” isn’t paying off? So maybe Trump did sell us out and nothing has changed? Whooo, sorry for that display, guys. Ok, now you good “dissidents”… you’re now free to down-vote this comment. MAGA or whatever

  14. Everybody blames systems, but as others here have pointed out in various ways, people are the issue. A democracy run by corrupt traitors will be invariably bad while a monarchy run by patriotic king and nobles will be good. Our people, by and large, are garbage right now. Fixing or replacing democracy, economics or any other issue won’t correct the course. But how do you fix people? I’m not sure you can.

    Hard times -> hard men -> soft times -> soft men

    I think we just have to live through this.

    For the record, I’m neither black nor white pilled. Sort of “zen pilled”, I guess; resigned.

  15. Does anyone else believe that the elite standing behind the facade of democracy will largely contain the Blue Wave of AOC’s and the like in the same way they have contained Trumpism? I personally think so. They may make more concessions to the peasants in the short-run (that’s what neoliberalism is largely about, in contrast to laissez-faire classical liberalism. It is about making whatever concessions are necessary to keep the racket safely going, and for only so long as necessary (until the concessions can be withdrawn/undermined, as with free trade undermining New Deal protected labor unions for example)). The money for the welfare state will run out, but every effort will be made to soften the decline, and the technology for social control and to instill fear in the masses will have grown. That’s my prediction for the future. It will be a dangerous and fairly chaotic time for the liberal elite and liberal system, certainly, but I’ll wager that they can weather it. Remember that the peasants are not too perceptive in the long-run (how much harder is it to eek out a middle class existence compare to 50 years ago? How perceptive are most people to this?), and are highly susceptible to indoctrination (how quickly have views on race and homosexuals, for example, changed in the last 50 years?), the capacity for which will only grow with the continued development of technology.

    • MikeatMikedotMike said: ” Solution?”

      The world is ass deep in Solutions, that’s the problem. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”

      “There is always an easy solution to every human problem – neat, plausible, and wrong.”
      – H.L. Mencken

      “The major cause of problems are solutions.”
      -Eric Sevarid

  17. As somebody said, no matter who we vote for we get John McCain. Clinton/Obama were supposed to be against big Business. Reagan/Bushes claimed to be social conservatives. But all we got was Pro-Wall Street globalism, tax cuts for the rich, and a Liberal Dominated Judiciary – including “Gay Marriage”. If you want to understand what our Elite really care about, look at all the passion/energy spent on whether members of “the squad” could visit Israel. That was bizarre!

  18. Elections are a beard worn by the oligarchy to fool the public. The public space is filled with drama and outrage, drawing in the public. It is the circus half of the bread and circuses. Meanwhile, the oligarchs, most of whom are now foreign to the people over whom they rule, exercise the real power of the supposedly national governments of the West.

    For a guy with a ‘different weltanschauung’ from E. Michael Jones, you certainly do a good job of copying his homework….

  19. Fine string of comments today. Many voices opposed to each other and yet solid arguments were made by most. I learned much and nothing.

    Unfortunately, this notional building a future for Our People contains the same conundrums men have pondered since the beginning.

    Humanity is imperfect and Utopia unobtainable. Perpetuity isn’t predictable. Okay. Fine, I’ll accept that. I haven’t the intelligence to find the solution.

    I’ll settle for My People first. Simple. All else pales to that. Plans, designs, schemes and systems. Is it perfect for My People? Is it a restoration of the past or a glorious new future? Don’t know and can’t know. My only concern is that Our People have a future, we aren’t washed away in the flood and we refuse to go quietly into that… you get it.

    The Devil isn’t in the details. He’s in lack of will caused by doubt and dissent. Unity of effort. Our. People. First.

    • If you don’t know what the problems are, if you don’t know who the enemies are, if you don’t know the fixes that are required, I don’t know how one really gets off the ground. Aren’t you basically in the same predicament as the CivNats and loyal Con., Inc. followers “tilting at windmills”? Regardless of who is fully right or wrong, any ideas that help maximally delegitimize our elite and the status-quo, and that instill real fear of the future that has been set out for us, is a good thing. I don’t think a simple “my people first” will cut it, since our people are not on our/their own side, and the only way to change this is to try and change their minds with ideas. To the maximum extent possible, they need to be made to recognize our elite and the status-quo as existential enemies (because they are), and to be made to recognize that there is such a thing as “us”, who they must actively side with and fight for (both for their own, and most especially for their descendents’, well-being).

  20. Z-man, I’ve expressed myself all to freely on this, and I’ll do it again: the public is to blame. Where is that white riot? Where is that organized and inevitably violent opposition to the destruction of European peoples, culture, and institutions in the United States?

    I maintain, the hwhyte man can be rid of us in the course of an evening, and reclaim his nation from the (((foreigners))) in less than an afternoon.

    But nothing happens. P0rn gets watched, sportsball monkeys rape white girls, some poor white boys die fighting wars for (((foreigners))), many more die of opiod overdose.

  21. Democracy is not a fraud, at least if you believe in fool me twice, much 357 times, shame on me.

    We have a democracy where the majority believe in participation trophies. Why should you have to actually work to pay for food, shelter, health care? The Elites say except for the evil whilte patriarchy everyone could have all wishes granted.

    Yes, they voted Trump in. And how many others like him instead of the Status Quo RINOs? Trump’s margin was small and he lost the popular vote, so complaining he was limited is disingenious. That stupid outgunned, outmanned, outarmed surrounded platoon didn’t manage to defeat the enemy in a day!

    The problem is we’ve lost our virtues. We are obese, but can’t stop having that sweet dessert. Or that snack. And exercise is soooo hard and unpleasant!

    Even here. The problem with your despair is it a self fulfilling vice. Instead of thinking of any way to support those who are actually fighting, you undermine them, whine, say we are doomed anyway. I don’t even know why you write this blog except to discourage and dismay as many as possible who are actually trying to fight even on a guerilla level.

    You say things are hopless – then why not just commit sucide now, not try to look for a spouse and raise a family. They will just end up dead, enslaved, or worse.

    But to return to the participation trophies, they are meaningless. The problem is that any kind of defensive action, much less regaining some ground will be difficult and painful and require sacrifice. And hard choices. Maybe San Franshithole is Mordor, but there is Utah. Less income but more of the cultural riches.

    We aren’t going to win just by showing up on election day. It took a generation to lose our souls. Destruction is easier than building. Or rebuilding. It will take a generation to return to something like what we had, to polish and repair the delapidated city on the hill until it once again shines. Just as it can take unpleasant months or years to get back to a good weight and strenght and endurance. But we can do it.

    Trump is Gandalf breaking the spell on Theoden. You can choose to continue to talk Wormtounge. Or ride with us to Gondor, then onto Mordor. Victory is possible, perhaps not by arms, perhaps by being able to still stand when everything and everyone else collapses, perhaps by arms. We won’t know until we get to the battlefield. But to avoid the battlefield is certain defeat.

    • Not giving up. This is Zman at pure white hot, incandescent rage. Such lethally quiet fury, filled with iron resolution. The volcano is smokin’.

      Steady, lads! However long it takes, and whatever it takes.

  22. Democracy is, however, a highly lucrative fraud as long as governments can print money and lend it to themselves. This has not yet led to shoppers pushing around wheelbarrows full of benjamins, meaning that (a) we will eventually print enough to set off a Zimbabwe-style hyperinflation, or (b) we’ve reached the end of history, able to solve all our problems with freshly-printed money.

    Democrats think *our* society is unequal — imagine how unequal it will be when dollars are worthless and most people have no gold and no skills they could trade for gold. Starving women on the streets will offer you a blowjob for a half-eaten sandwich, but if you’ve already had three blowjobs today, you’ll say “thanks anyway” and finish your sandwich.

  23. All bets off here in England at the moment, rear guard action is going well in the house of Lords as I write and Boris has nuclear options of both holding Queens assent to bill or having vote of no confidence called in himself. Both would result in an election which if held in conjunction with the Brexit party in the form of a pact would have us home and dry…..ifs and buts but the people behind Brexit intend to win.

  24. Ah, Z? What part of what you wrote (VERY well, as always) is new or novel?At which part should I even be surprised? A wise man (allegedly the wisest ever) once wrote “What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. Is there anything of which one can say, ‘Look! This is something new’? It was here already, long ago; it was here before our time.”

    When I was a little boy, my Grandpa asked me, “Boy? Do you know why a hound dog licks his balls?” To which I replied,”No, sir.” “Cause he CAN, boy.” he explained, “Cause he can.” It is the same with governments – ALL governments, every WHERE, every WHEN. In the Declaration, Jefferson wrote of governments “deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed”. But I disagree with Mr. J. It seems to me that governments derive ALL their powers – just or otherwise – from the consent of the governed. When someone asks why governments do something, the 2nd order answer would be (as in the example of the hound dog) “Because they can.” and that would be factually accurate. But the 1st order answer – i.e. the REAL, FUNDAMENTAL answer – would be “Because we LET them.” A wise man once wrote, “Remember: Evil exists because good men don’t kill the government officials committing it.” Kurt Hofmann wrote that many years ago and it is just as true today as when he first wrote it. Among others, I believe there are three foundational rules of human interaction which always operate.

    “All compliance is voluntary.” Whether it be to laws, local ordinances, constitutions, military orders, Homeowners Associations or the bylaws of the Tuesday Afternoon Quilting and Literary Society; all compliance is voluntary. Said compliance may be active, tacit or obtained at sword point or gun point; but it is still voluntary. One ALWAYS has the option NOT to comply. There is always the option NOT to comply.

    “Governments derive their power from the consent of the governed.” Like compliance, said consent may be active, tacit or obtained at sword point or gun point. In any case governments have only the powers THE GOVERNED allow it to have. The ultimate withdrawal of consent is rebellion the process wherein the people exercise “their right … [and indeed] their duty, [to] throw off [the existing Government, …[and] provide new guards for their future security”. Whenever I hear people saying that somebody cannot do something because it is against the law; the dictates of the government I chuckle and want to remind them that governments have no power we the people do not cede to them.

    Finally, “The ratio of ‘Indians’ to ‘Chiefs’ has always been and WILL always be (peacetime armed forces’ efforts not withstanding) in favor of the ‘Indians’ “. It’s a numbers game. The led will always outnumber their leaders by a sizable, if not overwhelming number. Stalin is supposed to have once observed, “Quantity has a quality all its own.” Its true. A large enough force of sufficiently motivated but untrained peasants can take down an armed and armored knight. They will not do so easily, bloodlessly OR painlessly but they CAN so so. I believe that fact is the TRUE reason that pretty much every government in history- save our own and Switzerland – have disarmed the rank and file of their populous. It is much more difficult for common people to rebel is they are unarmed. It is not IMPOSSIBLE; merely infinitely more difficult. If memory serves, late 18th Century French peasants were not allowed to own weapons yet somehow they successfully overthrew a monarchy which had rules for centuries.

    A final observation unrelated to the above: there is an aphorism – attributed likely spuriously to Lincoln – which goes “You can fool all of the people some of the time; some of the people all of the time; but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.” It occurs to me that while the aphorism is certainly true, it is irrelevant because one NEVER has to fool ALL of the people ANY of the time. To obtain and maintain power one need merely to fool ENOUGH of the people ENOUGH of the time. Paraphrasing Will Rogers’ famous quote, all most people know is what they read/hear in (are fed by???) the mainstream media. Just as school children accept whatever they are told by their teachers as “gospel”, so the average modern citizen uncritically accepts whatever the media puts out. Unable (unwilling more likely) to check up on the media, they accept WHATever is reported – HOWever it is reported as the pure, unvarnished, unredacted, unslanted truth. Thus those who control the media – i.e. the MESSAGE – are able to fool sufficient numbers of the people to achieve their ends.

    • Epaminondas said: “So is their any real concern about who gets elected? Should we even bother to vote?”

      Always vote for the candidate they hate. Even if you hate him too.

  27. There are only two political regimes: kingship or oligarchy. All republics are fronts for oligarchy, from Rome to Venice to today. This is why democracies go mad over “strongmen,” i.e. men who can stand up to the oligarchs. Oligarchy is rule by weaker, lesser from behind the curtain.

    • The proles want the democracy “curtain,” they want the illusion of “equal recognition,” that they are basically equal to all other men in society. This is, partly, why men like Kojeve and Fukuyama argued that this system, more or less, would envelop the earth (the “universal homogeneous state”). I’m somewhat terrified that they may have been correct. It’s why I’m quite open and tolerant toward any opposition to it, any check of the flood tide overrunning the earth. The more it spreads, the more powerful it becomes, and the more difficult it becomes to dislodge, in my opinion.

      • I’d be terrified as well, but how can a system like that work in the long run?We know that all men are not equal. Never were, never will be. It is the unequal, superior, men whom we all depend on in some form or another. Even in cave man times, they brought home the meat and took a larger share of the women in exchange. But that was preferable to most all of the group starving.

        When you developed a “Harrison Bergeron” society, at what level does it settle? Will that level be the same as today? Better? I doubt it. Problem is that—like the old USSR—it could take decades of living off of current capital until we come to that realization.

        • I think it could settle into a more thoroughly dystopian and dysfunctional system though. A sort of world Brazil. The elite behind the “democracy” mask just need to get enough of the mass of people either on-board, or apathetic toward it all. Add in that the elite of this system have the bulk of the productive capacity and technological dynamism of the world at their disposal (whatever it is, even if it drops from today’s levels, it is still at their disposal, as they’re the empowered elite), and the elite can overcome firm resistance to them with force if need be. With the development of drone planes and such, they won’t even need good soldiers. With the development of gene editing and such, they can engineer a mass of more docile, dumb-witted slaves, should the Hollywood, porn, junk food, alcohol, marijuana, et al not prove sufficient in buying the favela dwellers off, in keeping them basically docile and obedient. The System can continue to evolve long into the future, as it has been evolving since the French Revolution, but it can evolve downward (from our perspective), and still settle in, I think. I think technology may put an end to Oswald Spengler’s cyclicalism. We would already have collapsed were it not for the technology that has developed (again, in my opinion).

          • As an example of the System evolving into the future, I’m confident that, should the Third World hordes being permitted to stream into the West (for cheap labor, and to drown out white opposition to globalization in our “one man one vote democracies”) become a problem for the liberal elite, it will suddenly be discovered that the Rights of Man, the Constitution “rightly understood in our times,” et al will require that the borders be closed. There will be plenty of Ivy League professors ready to spin out the reasoning that demonstrates this to be Truth.

            Do you see what I mean? The System is dynamic, and powerful, because it appeals to the bulk of people (“under democracy, everyone basically has a say, and we’re all basically equal”), and when people get upset, new politicians, who change little or nothing, can be put in place. It is also powerful because it is materially productive and dynamic. Aside from advances in medical technologies, air conditioning, and so on, the proles want their Western popular culture, like Hollywood entertainment/propaganda, modern junk food, porn, marijuana increasingly, and so on. Their support of the System, viewing it as legitimate, can be bought by the elite quite cheaply in the long-run, and they can be quite easily and thoroughly indoctrinated with modern mass media and modern intensive education (again, these are under the liberal elite class’ control). The technology to control dissent is also rising, as in what is developing in China. Am I successfully scaring anyone, lol?

      • Prussian said: “The more it spreads, the more powerful it becomes, and the more difficult it becomes to dislodge, in my opinion.”

        There are a number of technical reasons governing the maximum limits to the expansion of all complex systems. Least of which is the law of diminishing returns. Infinite progress is a western fantasy.

        “If I had to choose one word to identify the uniqueness of the West it would be “Faustian.” This is the word Oswald Spengler used to designate the “soul” of the West. He believed that Western civilization was driven by an unusually dynamic and expansive psyche. The “prime-symbol” of this Faustian soul was “pure and limitless space.” This soul had a “tendency towards the infinite,” a tendency most acutely expressed in modern mathematics. The “infinite continuum,” the exponential logarithm and “its dissociation from all connexion with magnitude” and transference to a “transcendent relational world” were some of the words Spengler used to describe Western mathematics. But he also wrote of the “bodiless music” of the Western composer, “in which harmony and polyphony bring him to images of utter ‘beyondness’ that transcend all possibilities of visual definition,” and, before the modern era, of the Gothic “form-feeling” of “pure, imperceptible, unlimited space” (Decline of the West, Vol.1, Form and Actuality [Alfred Knopf, 1923] 1988, pp. 53-90).”

        But it’s not going to collapse any time soon. You and I will not live to see the final ruin of this phase of the imperialist project. So relax and enjoy the destruction.

        • “But it’s not going to collapse any time soon. You and I will not live to see the final ruin of this phase of the imperialist project.”
          I think you’re most likely correct.

          “So relax and enjoy the destruction.”
          I’ll try, lol. What gets to me is my own future (I’m a millenial), the future of the much younger people in my life, the future of animals under a world wholly composed of demoniacal Money elites and psychopathic hordes (as if our factory farms and such aren’t enough already), and my deep, deep love for the Great Man and this thing of ours that stretches back to the shadowy origins of Ancient Greece (as I conceive of it). But, you’re correct, Evola’s level-headed Olympian detachment and coolness in the face of the world is the ideal to strive for, it is the attitude that is most likely to bring positive results. And ultimately, nearly all of us are quite laughably powerless. A conception of Duty is quite necessary, which I have instilled in me by nature. I’ve always loved the Warrior, the man who lives totally for something. I’m in no way or shape a Great Man, but I seek to attach myself to them, to emulate them, to follow them, to contribute to shaping a world that produces as many of them as possible.

  28. I can’t make up my mind on Trump. But I know that Ryan was a complete shit weasel and McConnell is no better. The President isn’t supposed to have a whole lot of power to create domestic policies – that is the job of Congress.

    After the 2016 election, there was huge opportunity for changes to immigration law, national reciprocity, deep cuts to some of the really terrible federal programs and agencies. Not only did none of it happen, the Congressional Republicans tried their best and succeeded in losing the House for the first time in years. Now Lindsey Graham is fighting for gun confiscation. Most of them may as well be on the same side of the coin.

    • I may never make my mind up as far as whether he fooled me or fell victim to Byzantine Imperial politics, but it’s clear he’s going to give us nothing useful, and I don’t see how giving him four more years to pose and flex accomplishes anything. At least President Warren or Harris or whoever will anger and red-pill more normies. Trump is right-wing Xanax.

      • Say what you will of Trump, we got four years of not-Hillary and a PhD. level political science course in who really runs the country and how they go about it.

        • Agree.

          The wokefulness may turn out to be a historically important recognized turning point in a few decades,

  29. In Britain, the “remainers” are certainly on the payroll of global enterprise.

    The really sad part is, that I don’t think they actually have to pay them. The grifters know the rules of the game: play ball with the globalists, and maybe, just maybe, they might reward you, and if you are a REALLY good boy, they might elevate your from the dirt and into the clouds, make you a true insider. So politicians preemptively betray their constituents in the hope of a future reward.

    I suspect this is what happened with Trump: he was as surprised at winning as anyone else, so he had no idea what he wanted to do with the presidency, but he could spot a good deal: he could bargain away America for a place at the Big Table for his offspring, make sure none of them would ever have to be subject to the laws of mere mortals again.

    And who can really blame them? Back during the expenses-scandal in Britain a handful of years back, it transpired that the MPs who did not abuse their expense accounts were bullied by their colleagues, because it made them nervous to be around someone with clean hands.

    So some dude on the internet remarked, that since their positions had been emptied of all power and influence, since they were nothing but sock puppets, the only meaningful thing they had to do with their jobs, was to make sure they got as much gravy on their plate as possible.

  30. I don’t disagree, but I’d still rather live in this country, at this time, than at any other place and time in history. Yes, being overrun by wetbacks is a problem, but we could be getting our heads chopped off if we lived in another place and time. I’m not sure it’s healthy to spend one’s twilight years constantly griping. We all need to get outside and smell the roses.

    • The Ballad of Joe Boomer. Who cares about the future or the kids who have to live in it. Let’s grill up some burgers and drink some brews, things could be worse. What’s the point of reading this site or commenting when you could be firing up that grill right now?

      • Exile, some day if you’re lucky, you may come to realize that bitterness is not an argument, griping never accomplished a thing, and blaming others for such as you perceive are present injustices is not equivalent to a proposed solution.

        • Yes, maam. Thanks for stopping by to drop some Polyanna wisdom on us wayward angry boys. I don’t see why people who think this is a bitter dead end discussion feel the need to lecture us about it rather than simply shutting off the computer and going out to smell those roses.

    • I live a well-balanced life. I spend time with family, I exercise intensely, I do artwork, I garden, (I even smell dahlias, not roses), I work at a job, I even follow sports ball more than I should. I also read a lot and listen to a lot of podcasts, and bitch and complain a lot about the predicament we’re in. That’s healthy. What’s not healthy is being oblivious to what our enemies are doing, and doing nothing, ensuring that our children and ancestors live in a nation that sucks.

    • Go ahead and enjoy your twilight years; I’m sure your enslaved or obliterated grandchildren will understand – after all, you earned it all by your lonesome, right? I detest the present and am terrified at the thought of my sons’ future, and I neither want to see them overrun by wetbacks or pajeets or han or married to any of them. I believe a parent bears a responsibility to his offspring – ensuring their future is one’s reward in one’s twilight years, but you go ahead and eat and drink and be merry because tomorrow you die. Your descendants will merely have to endure the living hell you bequeath them.

  31. “There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things.”
    -Niccolo Machiavelli

    Just ask. John Wycliffe, Thomas D’Arcy McGee, Mahatma Gandhi, Mikhail Gorbachev, Donald J. Trump, Matteo Salvini, etc.

    • Our proposed “new order of things” runs resolutely against what our (real, ultimate) elite demand (and will murder by the millions or billions to attain). Unlike Antifa or radical Sunni Islam, we’re not of use to them in putting down their prime enemies (we are a prime enemy). I think the things we say here, in the long, are perilous. Do they already have all of our addresses, even behind VPN’s and burner email accounts? There is no real rule of law already, remember. Yet, without places like this, our chances drop to zero, in my opinion. The “smart”, selfish move in “the shining city on a hill” is already to keep one’s head down and mouth shut, let the West die, and let your descendants be marched into a nightmare.

  32. Democracy exists for one reason: to give legitimacy to our rulers.
    But I don’t have a problem with having rulers. Having rulers is the natural state of man. The problem is that different systems create different sets of rulers. Democracy has allowed the degenerates and freaks to be installed as the rulers. They are not the natural rulers that would occur if we had a legitimate society.

    • Definitely not the Natural Aristocracy the Founders contemplated, but then again they did not set up the “democracy” we find ourselves in today—we did. I suspect we were not altogether guilty of malfeasance, just an inability to predict/understand major societal altering events: prosperity, the welfare state, demographic changes trending towards a minority White State, rejection of Christianity and lowered religiosity.

      The above trends are not independent, nor all inclusive, but they cover the major areas undermining the Founders’ original ideas. Unfortunately, the genie is out of the bottle and no one has a clue for getting him back in.

  33. Aristotle based on logic & history determined that we could be governed by one (monarchy), by a few (aristocracy), or by the people directly (polity). There are dysfunctional implementations for each, respectively tyranny, oligarchy and democracy.

    Our oligarchs prefer to plunder under the false flag of democracy, and few of them can or have read Aristotle, so polity has been memory-holed by both design and ignorance.

    Per http://politicsandgovernance.blogspot.com/2010/06/aristotles-forms-of-government.html, Aristotle believed polity was:

    “(t)he best form of government but probably the most difficult to achieve is polity. A polity occurs when all relevant citizens of the state participate in the decision making through open discussion, compromise, and conciliation. Of course, this is only possible in the small city-states that Aristotle knew so well. Again, the characteristics of this government are just, the highest form of wisdom is compromise and conciliation, and government that generally works for the benefit of all.”

    Polity, we never knew ye.

    The oligarchs we revere as the Founding Fathers enshrined in muh Constitution a permanent stage-managed Potemkin polity called “representative democracy.” As the CivNats love to remind us, we’re a republic, not a democracy, because an actual polity would be what Aristotle called democracy – bad polity, mob rule. To the extent representative democracy may have been conceived with good intentions, in scaling up to continental world superpower size, it became simply oligarchy. Aristotle is smiling somewhere over Z glossing Bob Mueller’s democracy as a “beard for oligarchs,” a degenerate implementation of aristocracy in drag. Representative democracy becomes an obvious joke when each representative stands as proxy for almost a million citizens and “yet to be citizens.” As Peter Schweizer noted in “Extortion,” Congress spends 95% of its time hustling for re-election funds and graft, not “legislating.” They leave that to the NGO’s and when necessary, the kritarchs (had to get an anti-Semitisms in their somewhere).

    There is no way to “fix” this. This Leviathan has too many layers and webs of corrupt interests, false fronts and Epstein-grade incentives to ensure that polity remains forgotten and changeling democracy remains the Statute of Liberty face of Empire while the real business gets done by our ostensible public servants and dedicated NGO wonks orbiting her throne.

    In formulating our goals as we walk away from the rigged table of Empire, Aristotle is one of the timeless thinkers whose ideas withstand the corrosive process of deconstruction I described yesterday. We should heed his wisdom. His favorite existing government, was the Spartan Constitution (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartan_Constitution) because it combined elements of monarchy, aristocracy and polity. A government combining those elements with vertical transparency and accountability is probably all we need in terms of a system. Local-town polity, larger scale aristocracy, and some kind of warlord king for our “national” scale. Mutual defense is the only truly national interest.

    But a bad system run by good people is still better than the opposite. We still need to get the culture right first and form the small proto-polity mannerbund Things (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thing_(assembly)) from which to scale up Our Thing.

  34. Another reason why the British series ‘Yes, Minister’ should be required viewing by every dissident.

    • I was very young when that aired, but due to NHPBS “Britcom night” aka “Tuesday” I got to see the whole thing while the EU debacle was going down. “The more things change the more they stay the same.” Rather proving Z-man’s point.

  35. The lesson we should have learned from Trump ’16 to ’20 is that the right figurehead can and will be used to suck the vitality out of any dissent movement beyond the true believers. People, and there are millions of them, who should be standing with us have put their faith in DT. 3 years down the road and we have more or less ended up with what we’d have gotten with Jeb/Hillary. Maybe he’s even accelerated some problems.

    If Jeb/Hillary were the figurehead of this mess millions more white men would be ready to raise the black flag. His reelection will only continue the current dog-and-pony show.

    Worse would be better. At least for now. We don’t have the luxury of playing the long game.

  36. Yep, no doubt that democracy (or more precisely in the USA, a (former?) Constitutional Republic) certainly has its flaws; and maybe one can call it a fraud.
    Fine.
    As Churchill once said; ““Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.
    He also said; “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

    And anyone that has had the great misfortune of speaking to a liberal progressive,
    demokrat (i.e., a totalitarian, a Stalinist, a proponent of tyranny; but I repeat myself) can verify that the “average” voter is out to lunch (recall, that the average voter elected, TWICE, Obama and if not for the electoral college (the most brilliant election process ever devised) , Hillary.

    So, given all of the above, perhaps ZMAN can then tell us which OTHER form of government would be superior??

    Would a Parliamentary system ( a first cousin of the USA system, but still a representative form of govt) be better?
    How about the Cuban or Venezuelan model?
    How about a Maoist or Stalinist form of govt, but in which “your people” are in charge?

    And after watching Poldark, how about a govt. of, by and for the landed gentry and of dukes, earls, kings, queens, barons, etc. ( I have no idea what the difference is betwixt all these titles).
    In one episode, Poldark is reminded by a land owning “gentleman” that the riff-raff, the common person, cannot be allowed to govern because they just are too ignorant and would have no idea how to even govern themselves.

    IMHO I have zero idea of what other form of govt. would be better, but at the risk of sounding like a hypocrite and elitist, I would require the voting age to be 32;
    that no one could hold office at ANY level until age 50 and no older than 75;
    that no one can become a lobbyist after serving in office;
    and that no one can serve in office unless they have previously worked in the private sector for a minimum of 25 years (hopefully, making it impossible to have professional politicians or other individuals who have never in their entire adult lives held a real job – like DeBlasio, Obama).
    I would also believe that US Senators once again (as originally found in the US Constitution) should be appointed by each state legislature, thus requiring “un-amending” the 17th Amendment; which hopefully would encourage US Senators to have more allegiance to the states they represent instead of a national political party.

    Anyway, democracy sure has its flaws, so perhaps someone out there can educate me and propose a better form of govt..

  37. I completely agree that democracy today, across the West, is a fraud. This may be naive but it is my impression it was not always this bad. For example, back when the elite did not wish to literally replace the people.

    • The interests of the mass of whites, and the interests of the ultimate elite under “democracy”, weren’t always diametrically opposed. That has now changed thanks to the incentive for globalization, in my opinion. Democracy always was something of a fraud, but it is now a mask, safe cover, for an elite wholly and resolutely against us.

  38. This is so very true. However, I VEHEMENTLY disagree that this is simply what we would have gotten with Jeb! That’s insane and a ridiculous proposition. I present to you none other than the TPP. Blocking that monstrosity, if nothing else, made Trump worth it. Period. The fact that this man has done as much as he has, against the globalists, is AMAZING. Yeah, the wall ain’t completed yet, but he’s doing what he can. All that existing crap fencing, now being replaced with a 30+ foot wall. Look at what he’s done on his own. He literally has operated outside of the globalists’ orders in many many respects.

    • While there’s a lot to be disappointed about with Trump, a ¡Jeb! presidency certainly wouldn’t be the same. While there’s the ongoing fear that Bolton, Kushner, et al will push Trump into war with Iran, it probably would’ve happened by now with ¡Jeb! Also trade policies would be different, along with amnesty and appointment of judges, and just his overall cuckery. Also the left wouldn’t have launched such a full-throated attack on whiteness with ¡Jeb! in office, resulting in millions more slumbering whiteys unaware of demographic transformation.

    • There is no wall. There’s a small amount of fencing. He signed a bill that literally prevented him from building a wall using any of the prototypes and another bill that gave border counties veto power over any wall being built in their communities. About half of the counties have said no wall.

        • This was reported by immigration patriots and shitlibs alike. There’s a whole FTN episode on it, 2+ hours of details from the horse’s mouth and the legislation itself. I spend a lot of time in San Diego – they aren’t building shit down there. You’re either shilling or totally uninformed. Either way, Make America Great Again – don’t vote.

          • No matter how big and long the wall, globohomo will simply cut holes in it and invite everyone in at the first opportunity.

          • Not only are significant portions of crappy fencing, being replaced with WALL, but here is where the Sec. of Def. just authorized billions for and here is where it’s going:

            Arizona – 68 more miles (31 is secondary barrier on Goldwater Range)
            California – 20 more miles (Calexico and Tecate get secondary barrier, San Diego’s barriers extend about two miles further East, into the mountains)
            New Mexico – 30 more miles
            Texas – 52 miles North from outside of Laredo

            Arizona is basically getting continuous wall all the way from California to the Western edge of the Tohono O’odham Reservation, with 31 miles of double barrier in the Air Force’s Barry Goldwater Range. Tohono O’odham is getting complete persistent surveillance coverage by Integrated Fixed Towers (AKA “Virtual Wall”), and about 20 miles of New barrier picks up on the East of Tohono O’odham (Sasabe). 63 miles were recently started in Arizona, with separate DoD (Counter-Narcotics) funds.

            The 46 miles going into New Mexico from El Paso is getting 13 miles longer, extending 33 miles West of the Columbus Port of Entry. Also three miles on either side of Antelope Wells POE, and about five more miles near the Arizona border. About 80 miles out of New Mexico’s 180 mile border.

            52 miles, running North from outside of Laredo, Texas.

            Laredo is the biggest city on the border without significant barrier, and likely to catch the diverted flows from the Rio Grade Valley barrier building already announced. I guess they anticipate that Laredo itself, and its Southern Flank toward Falcon Lake will be funded in the 2020 appropriation.

          • People want to believe what they want to believe. Whether it’s truth or fiction. We need to persuade our would-be allies with facts when we can.

          • Funny you should mention that. I’ve only recently discovered FTN. It certainly set me to researching for myself. But it’s apparent that those guys do their homework in advance.

          • Now we’re going to measure e-peens about who knows more ICE & LEO’s in SoCal? Anons flashing hearsay about other people’s credentials and opinions don’t impress me.

            Trump’s a fake on immigration enforcement, the Wall is Obama-grade vaporware and plan trusters gonna trust.

          • Agreed, it ain’t ideal. But you play the hand you were dealt. And already 60 miles of NEW WALL are up and major funds are moving in. Over 460 miles of NEW WALL are expected to be up by 2020 election. Plus, all this crappy fencing is now replaced with BIG WALL. Given that his own damn party hamstrung him on these issues, that ain’t bad!!

      • You are completely mistaken or simply spouting anti-Trump rhetoric you read somewhere else on the Internet. The “wall” is being built and has been built (not completed). I use the term “wall”, but the solid brick obstacle that was initially touted by Trump is not it. What is being set up, is the same as the old “wall”—a 20 foot high series of steel posts buried into the ground.

        First priority, now complete, was to rebuild/fix the 400 miles or so of existing barrier wall. Much was run down and breached. Best bang for the buck was to repair such. There are now several sections—disjoint, but new—being erected. One through Organpipe National Monument, despite law suits against it. Again, this is at the behest of the Border Patrol to route illegals into areas where they can more easily round them up.

        Where is this info from? The Border Patrol themselves. The rank and file have a weekly radio show where they discuss such events here along the border. By and large, these men and women are quite pleased with the progress of the wall. Morale has done nothing but increase since Trump took office, and that’s not trivial.

        As I’ve said before, one should not be too fixated wrt the “wall” it is really a distraction from the serious issue of illegal immigration.

        First, most illegals are not desert crossers from the South. They come through many other methods, overstayed VISA’s, Canada crossings, etc. Hell, a few times hundreds were found off loading from ships on the Pacific coast.

        Second, most illegals come here to work. How can they do that? Simple, they find work with corrupt employers and there are little to no penalties applied to such employers when caught.

        Third, most illegals have a high use of welfare programs—much higher than citizens. How can this be? Simple, States restrict the questioning of citizenship status for benefits.

        Point here is that instead of raving about insufficient wall building efforts, we should be railing on “souring the milk” that attracts illegal migrants. Sour the milk, and the cats keep away. Of course, that would not fill the psychological need of the anti-Trumpers posting here.

    • Stuff like TPP is just arranging who’s going to sell deck chairs on the Titanic. As for the Wall, no one here believes the shuck-and-jive. The only thing he’s done to the globalists is offend them with some vulgar tweets, say Charlottesville wasn’t the Battle of the Bulge and give props to Henry Ford. He’s a stooge for globohomo, plain and simple. The only question is whether it was a long con from 2015 on or whether he got blackmailed into being their loud-barking lapdog.

      • This is very ignorant and does not make any sense. “arranging the deck chairs??” The cognitive dissonance for so many is almost too much to overcome. Proposition 1) the globalists run everything and democracy is a fraud; and 2) Trump is a shuck and jive con man for not single-handedly overruling all of the globalists who, I refer you to 1) literally run everything.

        For everyone who complains and endlessly blackpills about Trump it is literally borderline retarded. You wonder why all you are stuck with is howling in the wilderness. Yeah, no one wants to listen to a nutjob with this stuff.

        Is Trump perfect, of course not. Has he done all I wanted, nope. But holy crap man, with the forces arrayed against him, HE HAS ACHIEVED MILESTONES, much better than Reagan, and he’s done it ALONE!! Tell you what blackpillers, I’ll take my 460 new miles of NEW 30 FOOT HIGH+ WALL!!! and you can cry in your pillow every night.

        • Your wall is all but symbolic, it was always a McGuffin. It matters not how high or how long your wall is, if people can simply buy an airline ticket, overstay their tourist visa and wait for the amnesty.

          • Now that is a great point. Big time criticism there, how has the visa situation not been tightened up FFS?? It’s crazy.

  40. Z: “In the United States, both political parties are funded by the same people.”

    One would think such a broad conspiracy would have a few whistle-blowers. Our case would be bolstered if we could list examples.

    I can think of two legislators who said they were threatened for their lack of support for Israel: Jim Traficant and Cynthia McKinney. Any others, not just restricted to support for Israel?

  41. What do you expect Trump to do, exactly? He’s got the entire 9th circuit arrayed against him. The FBI. The DOJ and an entire alphabet soup of agencies arrayed against him. After that – pretty much every last black and vibrant ethnic on the street.

    What do you want him to do? Start firing these guys? That’s how civil wars get started. You don’t have the guts for these endless foreign wars… can you handle a massive one here at home? Do you have any way forward that doesn’t involve bloodshed? If you do, I am all ears.

    The shooting is going to start soon. Take note, boys… they will almost certainly shoot first.

    • >>>That’s how civil wars get started.<<<

      You can die like Stonewall Jackson, or you can die like Nikolai Bukharin. The choice is yours.

      • This is an unfair choice, Bukharin was an enthusiastic Bolshevik until his head was next on the list.

    • He could have filled his administration with people that supported his 2016 platform instead of Koch lobbyists, Obama holdovers, never-Trumpers, and various swamp creatures. And FWIW, even the 9th Circuit ruled he could end DACA after the comment period if he filed an APA (which he chose not to do.) Instead he appeared on Spanish-language tv at the end of June saying he’s always been in favor of amnesty. Go figure.

      • Agreed. My question to our esteemed blog host and the intelligentsia here, is this: how far is the dissident right prepared to go?

        Trump could also literally have Hillary in a cage by the end of the day. He could also grab AOC by the pussy and offer her and her hag squad jobs as maids in one of his hotels. Look, I get it. The bad guys aren’t playing by the rules. Nor are they going to play fair any time soon. By all indications they are only going to keep getting worse. Is there a point wher the dissidents will draw a line in the sand? How bad do we let things get before we put up our dukes and do something about it?

        • Agreed. I think most folks have figured out by now that Trump is only slowing down the inevitable, if that. “How bad do we let things get?” Quite bad, I reckon. We’ve all seen the defenestrations of Trump supporters without so much as a nod from Trump himself or the “Republican” establishment (see: Covington Catholic boys,etc.) If he won’t stick up for his most ardent supporters, who will?

        • Fedpoasting about “puttin’ up ur dukes” is counterproductive and does not represent the intentions or views of this blog or anyone else commenting here. How’s the weather in Quantico, Special Agent john Smith?

      • Problem here’s a conundrum. Trump was a political novice—in way over his head wrt political rule, rather than private business rule/leadership. I strongly suspected such would occur. On the other hand, a politically savvy person would be well “cucked” by the time he ran for the big seat and, like all the other recent pol’s, would have said everything to win, then tossed all the promises out the window shortly after oath of office.

        We had this experience with all the typical pol’s over the decades, so we took a chance on Trump. I still have no regrets. Short of picking a name out of the phone book, he had more promise than all the rest. And as evidence for this I point to his enemies and their reaction to his election.

    • Andrew Jackson had the entire Supreme Court against him. I expect Trump to tell the 9th to pound sand and honor his oath of office. Big Mommy is not going to start a war over some Talmudry cooked up by a judge. It’s a show. If Trump had the will, there are a million ways, and 70+ million people who would cheer him on.

      • Exile, in which case you would now be railing against president Pence, Trump having been impeached from a coalition of Dem’s and anti-Trumpers. What you ask for could not be accomplished by Trump or any other President with as weak a support base as he had upon assuming office.

        • Another reason not to bother with electoral politics. If every district court judge can dictate policy, that’s just one of 100 ways the elites can stifle any meaningful change. What’s the point of defending Trump or debating the details?

          • Because the truth has an implicit value. If you can’t understand or accept that, then there is no discussion we can have that will ever reach a satisfactory exchange of ideas.

            I can perfectly accept many anti-Trump arguments. Indeed, I accept—or at least understand—your rejection of participation in presidential politics. But not your reasons as supported by your anti-Trump examples.

          • Rationalize it however you like. We have more important things to worry about than defending Trump’s honor or your own subjective version of “truth.” Take it from a recovering Objectivist – conflating your evaluation of events with empirical truth makes you harder to live with.

  42. I always have this image in my head after listening to Dennis Miller’s radio show several years ago, when he described what he thinks happens shortly after a new president is elected. He’s brought into a room and handed a huge three ring binder filled with laminated pages and instructed to forget about all the campaign promises, that this is the way the country is going to be run.

    • This is more or less what supposedly happened with Bill Clinton.

      “You mean to tell me that the success of the economic program and my re-election hinges on the Federal Reserve and a bunch of fucking bond traders?” is what he is said to have said two weeks before his innuaguration.

      • It goes back even further in the process than that. And it probably goes a long way towards explaining why the swamp has gone so apeshit crazy over Trump. He probably didn’t play ball right from the outset – and then he won.

        I used to read a guy named Gary North. He told a story about how the system worked behind the scenes – with a first person account of one of those meetings you are referring to. In this case it was in reference to Reagan. Once it became apparent that he was forming up as a preferred candidate – a “meeting ” occurred where he was told that he was going to accept George Bush as his running mate.

        Supposedly there were a bunch of known high powered people in the room when Ronnie had his talking to – but one of them was Walter Cronkite. And Cronkite was there to put an emphasis on the point that if Ronnie didn’t go along – then the press would be used to savage him in any way possible.

        I could go find the story – but as I remember North detailed it pretty well , and said that a friend’s kid was in the room when it all happened (that’s how he found about the whole thing).

        I am absolutely sure that politicians get “talked to” – both before and after elections.

        Remember when Romney went to Israel – BEFORE he even declared his candidacy for the Presidency?

        https://www.timesofisrael.com/romney-to-visit-israel-this-summer-aide-confirms/

        ‘Romney last visited Israel in January of 2011, before he had formally declared his candidacy, and was hosted by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at his Jerusalem residence. He also visited Afghanistan, the United Arab Emirates and Jordan on that trip.’

        I’m sure Romney had a “talking to” when he was there.

    • I think they size you up first. If you’re a non-interventionist, the (((state department))) will force-feed you all the terrible situations it can think up. If you’re a socialist, the (((treasury department))) will concoct all kinds of economic calamities just around the corner. If you’re a establishment guy, then you just play golf while AIPAC calls the shots. If you don’t bow to these interests, then first you get assassinated first by the press, then by your political allies, then by a bullet.

    • Didn’t Obama get a list of “recommendations” for his cabinet, from some big bank, a month before the election? He used 80% off the people on the list… who promptly bailed out that big bank.

      I’ll leave to look out details as it’s been a number of years.

      Edit: Found it. /www.rt.com/usa/362836-emails-citigroup-obama-cabinet/amp/

  43. I could easily tolerate the elite creating the appearance of democracy but being the puppet masters if they were actually competent. Just look at the mess the international ruling elite have made of South Africa — people being burned alive in the streets.

    • That’s not a bug, that’s a feature.

      When you see Jews being burned alive in the streets, instead of Whites or kaffirs, /then/ you’ll know the elites are malfunctioning. Just now, though, all’s right with the world.

    • It’s a cliche to say that the US Cloud People ruling elite is at best indifferent to the 90% Dirt People and actively hates the Deplorables. Zman and Tucker Carlson discuss this frequently. Our elite is indifferent to the very existence of the United States. They traffic with hostile nations for their own self-interest.

      Someone in China had access to Hillary Clinton “private” e-mails and this eventually led to the death of 20 CIA agents in China. She and Peter Strzok didn’t care.

      https://twitter.com/RedNationRising/status/1168658153296355333

        • They figure that their wealth will insulate them, with private guards and the walls of their gated home or community. When the poop hits the fan, they’ll leave. That’s what they think, not what might happen.

      • Yep x100.

        Our elites are class based like those in England not race based. This makes all the difference in their behavior towards us. From day one till they graduate from a Ivy, they attend exclusive boarding schools no ordinary white has ever heard of and from there to other schools where they only associate with other kids from elite families and often from across the world. By the time they graduate from say Harvard they have zero experience with Joe SixPack, but are more comfortable interacting with the sons of Chinese Communist party officials and children of African and Muslim oligarchs that they went to school with,

        In short they aren’t Americans and never were. They are hostile aliens for all intents and purposes.

        • Yep, Rod. But you’d think that they’d wish to have a safe haven within which to reside. One ruled by law, populated by people use to such rule and supporting of it. It’s a poor parasite that kills its host.

          That’s the old CivNat coming out in me and a tell on the level of society I am descended from I guess. Just can’t help thinking of that old saying, “Don’t shit where you eat.”

          • Not just to reside. Wealthy people used to vacation in South Africa. Guessing that’s no longer the case. There’s no long-term thinking going on. They’ve completely destroyed the country of South Africa through their delusions, and they’ll do the same to their host countries if given a chance. These people aren’t just a danger to us, they are a danger to themselves and offspring.

          • Those with the most power and influence, the extremely wealthy, the power elite cosmopolitan oligarchs and those near them, are insulated from this, and they are incentived to globalism. The liberal elite class of the world can certainly make mistakes, the question is whether the System is dynamic and powerful enough to keep tackling challenges as they come along. New technologies help with that, and Third Worldists have lower expectations than white populations. I think we need to consider what we are faced with, liberalism, as an organism, that changes and evolves, without much conscious understanding of the long process from the liberal elites themselves. They simply follow incentives, and the liberal system can marshal the mass support (for example, liberal ideas collapsing communist or authoritarian Right regimes from within, with a whimper and not a bang) and material power (Western militaries) to overcome obstinate resistance over time. The French Revolution was the landmark date at which this thing escaped from the bottle, and it’s been evolving and spreading ever since. It’s met and defeated many, many different challenges. Overcoming Western Civ., overcoming resistance by white populations to globalization, is the next stage, the next challenge to meet and defeat. I think its in a good position for this. That’s how I understand all of this.

    • When I think of the far Left, I think of the “dictatorship of the proletariat”, and left-anarchism. I believe our destroyer is Money, the rootless oligarchs and Ivy League class. I don’t foresee them embracing the far Left. That will only happen if the globalization they’re engineering turns on them, if the brown hordes can be successfully stirred by more able proles to a radical Left revolt against these actors behind the scenes (the leadership of which will simply flee to safety abroad).

      We require something like Oswald Spengler’s Caesarism, “victory of force politics over money,” a State with a new and ruthless political elite that can put the Western/world elite, Money, in their place. Spengler wrote that “democracy” means “domination of money,” “economic powers permeating the political forms and authorities”:

      https://cdn.counter-currents.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/screen-shot-2016-05-28-at-8-14-53-am.png

      Those rooted in American conservatism would actually call this move against Wall Street, et al leftism, which is absurd (another example of Money warping things, in this case the thinking of the mass?).

      I posted this a couple of days ago, but I’ll post it again, as a very small, very soft example of what I’m talking about (this video always makes me smile):

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flC—s2moA

  45. I have often been told to read Burnham’s Machiavellians, perhaps even here.
    From what I gather (and know anyways) the world is ruled by elites for elites. So I read this and what, feel good with my deeper understanding of how screwed we are and always will be?

    I see a small minor example in the news today of an obscure federal judge ordering Trump to reinstate the press pass of a Playboy journalist. Real power indeed.

  46. In the US, democracy works fairly well for the Democrats. The Democrat Party delivers what its voters (minority groups and 40% of the whites) want. Unfortunately, the system does not work for those that vote Republican. As you pointed out, the Trump administration is not much different from what Jeb! would have provided. i blame GOP leaders more than Trump, but the President could have done more by leaving his son in law in New York and putting Kris Kobach and similar allies in the administration.

    Your criticism of the public is not totally accurate. Since 2000, the electorate has been evenly divided. The party that does a better job turning out its base wins. A few voters might bounce from one side to the other, but this is no more than a percent or two. I think Trump will be reelected,because his opposition is so weak. It will not be a landslide like Ever Trumpers predict. Probably more like Bush 43 in 2004–close popular vote and a squeaker in the Electoral college.

    • Democracy mostly works for the Democrats because that’s what the men behind the curtains want, not because the Dem voters want it. A lot (probably a sizable majority) of Dem voters are not fans of Israel or foreign wars, particularly in the Middle East. Are they getting what they want?

    • This point gets overlooked a lot. Democracy works just fine for the brown horde and their puppet masters…why should they turn on it?

      • Why should the brown hordes leave the Democratic plantation? They’re paid off with welfare, government jobs, MIB advantages if they start a business and a whole host of other preferences in college entry, job hiring, etc. Third-worlders are also accustomed to living under corrupt authoritarian regimes. Mainstream conservatives can’t grasp that basic fact. So, they howl about abortion and blame Planned Parenthood for the high rate of abortions in the Black and Hispanic communities.

        • “Third-worlders are also accustomed to living under corrupt authoritarian regimes.”

          I think many third worlders who come here don’t even really “get” what they’ve bought into. They will vote for candidates that promise them gibs but are also talking about passing this or that draconian new law to appease the crazed white woman vote. In their countries you just ignore those laws and slip a bill to the officer when he arrests you for breaking them. Here in Murrica there’s still enough of that Swedish style lawfulness that the cops won’t take the money and the courts really will lock your ass up forever when they prove you guilty.

          Then again, there’s a certain factory I visit regularly for my job that’s full of all these 4′ Mestizos who probably need a visit from ICE. I wonder sometimes if some of them even really know where exactly they are. They got on a truck, it drove for days, and now they have more dinero and trabajo. They also know “stupid white people give you stuff”.

  47. Way back in 1972 I took a class called Introduction to Political Behavior. The professor said that elections influenced public policy very little and that the main purpose elections served was to legitimize the change of leadership. If, however, people catch on to the fact that the apparent leaders are really only puppets, then there might be the chance for a real change.

    Universal suffrage, mass participatory democracy is a failure. In any future system, voting will have to be restricted, or somehow weighted, to give people with greater knowledge and a greater stake in the outcome, more influence.

    • Agreed, but the right to vote must always be earned in some manner, otherwise there will grow a subversive element among the disenfranchised and a dead weight load among the franchised.

  48. I don’t think I have ever hated a politician more than Paul Ryan. His clean, earnest image, curated with the help of Jonah Goldberg and other “coat holders” (great term). His Johnny One-Note tax cutting, free market smoke screen to block any action on the border. His “retirement from politics” and subsequent swan dive into the millionaire’s pool of influence peddling.

    And he is just one shining example.

    Not enough lampposts. Not enough time.

      • You’re right, EDM.

        And dang it, I still catch myself hating the actors in the play, instead of the playwrite. That’s who really needs lampposting.

    • I hated him because he ran on–I can barely bring myself to type it–“FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY.” And proceeded to to vote for ever increasing spending, debt, and deficits. On the backs of the taxpayer.

    • Paul Ryan will go down in history on the same page as Judas Escariot, Benedict Arnold, and Quisling. May he be mashed in the mouth of his true master at the center of his master’s kingdom for all eternity.

  49. As long as I’ve been alive, I’ve heard that both parties are both sides of the same coin, the media is lying, the economy is rigged, etc. etc. But I can’t seem to shake being a democracy-cuck. The question always is: what do we replace it with? Fascism? Ethno-totalitarianism? A philosopher-king? In democracies people do have the power to throw the bums out, even if it’s a kind of abstraction. If the government is openly unresponsive to the peoples’ will, as we’re seeing in Britain, then rebellion is in order. Democracy can then be restored. which is better than some white God-king. The dissident right’s problem should not be with democracy, it should be with the current lack of a Jeffersonian spirit of rebellion. We need to rustle those normie jimmies. The FBI and Jeff Epstein cases should warrant a rebellion here. If Brexit is delayed again, then I am rooting for a rebellion in the UK.

    • “The question always is: what do we replace it with?”

      An explicit ethno-state. A people can survive all kinds of crazy forms of government. Japan will still be Japanese in 100 years regardless of their form of government.

      I don’t really care what form of government a white ethno-state has. That’s always correctable.

      • OK. But short of an ethno-state, what form of govt would serve the multi-culti United States? I think some people (not necessarily you) are hoping for a fascist white savior. That will not come, as long as the coast-to-coast USA holds together. Even if we have President Ocasio-Cortez, I’d love to see uncucked representatives throwing shit her way, and maybe a Congressional White Caucus to give the ADL something to fund-raise over. That is the fun of a democracy.

        • I don’t think any government will serve a multi-culti United States, at least not long-term. In medium term (say, next 20 to 50 years), I suspect we’ll see more of the same, a facade democracy. However, I think that the TPTB will have a harder time controlling the various factions.

          • Exactly. What serves the Empire isn’t our primary concern. We’re rooting against them. We just need to stay clear of them and build Our Thing. Following Empire politics is still be important, but our priorities and goals are very different now. We don’t have anyone on our side in that system, and Trump shows how little you should trust anyone who claims to be fighting for us in the future.

        • The current order will never allow a Congressional White Caucus. If they had their way there will be very few Whites in congress, if any at all. That is their goal. It isn’t just take the White man’s stuff and remove him from power, it’s the humiliation and destruction of his family. If you’re White and you notice you are marked.

          That little trad-family in Indiana selling vegetables at the farmers market are beginning to understand. Those young men who held those torches high and said “You will not replace us” and have been disowned by their families, fired from their jobs and some now languishing in jail or prison know all too well.

        • *Empire* is always the result of multi-culti, with rule by those with power. No matter the *appearance* of the government, be it Emperor, King, Congress, or President, those who rule are those who control that government.

          • Why do you guys always get this shit backwards?

            Somebody posted here the other day that bureaucracy breeds war.

            That is wrong. War breeds bureaucracy.

            Now I’m hearing that multi-culti results in empire.

            That is wrong too.

            It’s the other way around. Empire breeds multi-culti. As the empire expands it brings in disparate peoples and sucks them into the mother country. That is the process that was followed in France and England – and it’s the one that happened here as well.

            If you guys can’t get this straight you’re never going to be able to fix it.

          • Must have missed that day in history class when we learned about the Swedish Empire rolling over parts of the Middle East and Africa. 😉

          • Well then you missed the part where all the Africans and South Americans emigrated into the US pre-1890 as well.

            Sweden is completely infested with leftists , Jewish 5th columnists – and super-feelz women. That’s where their POC infestation problem is being driven from.

            If multi-culti comes before empire – then please point me to which country the Swedish Navy and Marines are off invading at the moment………..

          • I didn’t say that multi-culti comes before empire. I was simply pointing out that your assertion that empire comes before multi-culti isn’t always correct. It’s generally correct, but not always.

            Sweden didn’t have an empire outside of Europe at any point so their multi-culti wasn’t caused by being an empire. Also, their multi-culti definitely won’t cause Sweden to become an empire.

            In a world of cell phones and cheap travel, multi-culti comes to whatever country isn’t willing to stop people at the border. Simple as that.

          • Ruling over one’s neighbors, in the case of the historical Swedish Empire, the Balkans is just as destructive as people of another race

            And note that empire managed about a hundred years before it fell apart.

            A nation needs to rule its own people and no others

            The US’s failure point was because when we started we were nearly all Brits , add in the other groups of Whites not to mention slaves and Amerinds and you have a recipe for a failed state

            This was baked in the cake.

            And no adding Germans as hardworking and solid and kin-like they are to the Brits was still folly.

            Greed for more warm bodies and more land is the biggest mistake any nation can live and the one most leaders have trouble avoiding

          • The original recipe of Brits, Scots, some Irish, Amerinds, and French – likely could have been made to work pretty well. But it kept going from there – and we ended up where we are now.

          • Not many people understand this. welcome to the Neo No Nothing party, we have virtual pie and tea.

          • Never forget that, as the “moral superpower” of Planet Earth, the Swedes collectively are exceptionally stupid (i.e. intoxicated by the wonder of their own press-clippings).

            The Swedish Experience is not really transferable… though Germany, with its 70+ years of war-guilt, is trying.

        • I’ve been saying this for a long time:

          Remove as much power from the hands of the Federal government as possible.

          Probably not going to happen – because as I’ve seen pointed out by numerous people: governments never willingly give up power once they have taken it.

          But I think it’s useful to remember – that if the US form of government as originally designed – had not been hacked and slashed by WHITE people – we likely would not be suffering the issues of the current day.

          If you’re going to talk about how the Euro pols are browbeaten and blackmailed and paid off by Brussels to sell out their own country – then it should be a topic of discussion here in this country that our pols – at all levels – are held in thrall to the swamp in D.C. – and therefore whomever it is that holds the reigns there.

          It was NOT supposed to be that way. We can talk about how the Constitution didn’t hold back the Federal government from swallowing the country, we can talk about whether this was some sort of natural progression – and we can talk about whether it was consciously sabotaged, ( I fall in the sabotage camp) , but I believe that if you don’t get the form of government “correct” – you’re just going to fail AGAIN.

          We pretty much had a white ethno-state here in the US. All of the European countries absolutely did. Where are they all now? What got them there? I put the blame largely onto the welfare state. The welfare state “hacked” white’s nature to support their enemies. In pretty much EVERY case I’ve spent any time studying – the importation of POC into white countries is explicity supported by some outside force either thru the national government or in collusion of some form with it.

          You can go online and find the tracking info for all of the refugee ships coming across the Mediterranean from Africa. In the US the support for POC invaders is pretty much right out in the open. The Federal government takes your tax dollars and funnels them thru private organizations to import people. Then it gives the invaders welfare checks of one form or another.

          And pretty much ALL of this – was driven by people with ostensibly WHITE faces. We can argue whether or not it was Jews behind it all – but one thing is absolutely true: We did not suffer thru military invasion that installed a bunch of Africans into ruling our countries before they imported “settlers” (like what has happened multiple times in the past) – we were pretty much sold out by our own.

          So when I hear people talking about a white ethno state – and they say ” we can fix the government later” – I call bullshit.

          As far as I can see – the history shows pretty clearly that your government can screw up your state much faster than you can fix it (the government that is).

          So you had damn well better figure out the government piece of the puzzle early – before you set off on your trek towards the white ethno state.

          And as far as I am concerned – the only government that will guarantee a white ethno state’s survival for any prolonged period of time – is a very minimal one. Along the lines of what the founders of this country envisioned. Perhaps the US is just done for – and the only way to have sane nations going forward – is for the entire thing to break up and become a number of separate countries.

          I do know that while I might absolutely hate being ruled by a bunch of brown faced lefties – I will only hate being ruled over by a bunch of white faced lefties only slightly less, as I’ve already been there – and done that.

          • We should remind ourselves that it was us, whitey, first and foremost, who gave us:

            (1) the War of Northern Aggression;

            (2) Reconstruction;

            (3) the Income Tax;

            (4) Lincoln;

            (5) Teddy Roosevelt;

            (6) FDR;

            (7) Wilson;

            (8) the administrative state;

            (9) judicial immunity; and

            (10) the welfare state.

            We must relegate our addiction to “strong” central government to our rear-view mirror.

            Forever.

          • In which case you are now property of the Chinese , the EU , the UN and/or the Multinationals who would be immeasurably worse

            You can reduce the size of the state but you can’t unilaterally disarm otherwise you end up someone else’s bitch

            You will have government, quite a lot of it till the collapse

            Your minarchy on the frontier dreams will have to wait till you have a nice type M planet for you to colonize or enough people die off

            Otherwise being around strangers requires government and lots of it

        • None. Multicultural societies always become despotisms or fail, these days at an increasingly fast rate.

          This is part and parcel of why the PTB’s crave gun control so much. They think it will protect them from the consequences of decades of malicious choices,

          Besides if someone has enough power to force an ethnostate on the US they have more than power to end the liberal experiment for good.

          Hell a simple return to En Loco Parentis and corruption of a minor for teaching certain things to anyone under 21 would end the college communists for good.

          Send a few hundred subversives to the labor camp or the gallows and viola no Leftism

          A caveat here, of the regime doesn’t address the problems with neo liberal economics somehow , they’ll keep feeding Cthulhu and the left will return.

          Conservatism above all needs to be “This is a great place to raise a family” above all else and there is a massive economic component to this

        • Marko: Your last sentence explains it all. The ADL. Add the Wall Street (((Banksters))) and the well-heeled tribe members and their Goyim useful idiots in the “Entertainment Industry” and you have the real power behind the throne. It will be extremely difficult to eliminate those Satanic rat bastards.
          There is no White Savior, fascist or otherwise. Unless we have an almost extinction-level or Deus ex Machina event, we are toast. The dark times are here. Plan accordingly, one and all. Bleib ubrig.

      • Yep. Follow Z’s lead on this – get the culture right and the downstream stuff works itself out. If a few hundred people broadly agree on what needs to be done, they find ways to organize. We’re social animals, it’s pretty natural if we don’t trip over our big brains. We just need to exclude the people hell-bent on rowing the boat another direction.

      • Even in a ethno-state there is no guarantee the elites won’t betray us. It happened in England where the aristocrats declared war on the lower class whites.

        The problem is with white elites, they have no tribal loyalty, everything with them is class based. They are taught this from from day one that they are different from the lower class whites. Consider this, they are kept from ordinary whites growing up. They attend very exclusive boarding schools and latter attend Ivies which have a very international, multi-ethnic flavor to them.

        End result they have more in common with a rich Nigerian or Muslim than they do with a middle-class white.

        • This is a reason why even well meaning elite Whites fail to understand the racial issue. For the most part they associate with the top 5% of minorities. They don’t have to deal with Dontavious Dindu.

          • Oh please, the elite Whites know and fully understand the racial issue, which is why they stay in neighborhoods that are close to 100% White. They do what they do because they have utter contempt for the “deplorable” Whites.

            To be fair, the elite non-whites despise the poorer non-whites as well. A wealthy Ivy-League educated Nigerian would not be caught dead in the slums of Lagos.

      • Molyneaux’s Maxim:
        “If people are good, you don’t need a government,
        if people are bad, you can’t have a government.”

        The problem? Communism is infancy. Socialism is toddlerhood. Adolescence is arrested development in extended childhood. As is “submittizenry”. Not sure any public body has reached the social equivalent of biological adulthood.

    • I frequently ask myself the same question, “What do we replace it with?” My best answer at this point:

      The controlling document sets as the highest goal, not the adherence to principles or processes, but the flourishing of a specific people.

      Representative government, but with a restricted franchise. Maybe you can only vote if you’ve contributed more to the Treasury than you’ve taken, or served in the military, or you’re a woman who has birthed more than two children with the father whom you are married to.

      • Franchise containment doesn’t work. Z-Man has written and spoke about this. Democracy’s natural tendency is to grow. Parties are always looking for an edge, which means new voters. Each new generation thinks that it knows better than the past and expands the vote a bit until we get to where we are.

        Democracy has a shelf-life. Always has, always will.

          • Before the 20th Century, you’d be hard-pressed to find someone who favored democracy.

            Different forms of government accompany different forms of society and the central principle of democracy is equality. Read what Plato wrote in The Republic, Alexis de Tocqueville in Democracy in America and statements made by framers of the US Constitution. Their observations about democracy were spot on.

          • When you look at how Arabs and North Africans govern their people, there is a reason it is mostly Authoritarian. They understand the “common man” of their culture and make no pretense of letting them make decisions.

            Also you can see how Black leaders like Farrakhan and Pastor Manning handle their charges. They are pretty blunt and don’t even pretend that the people they lead are of equal standing. Again because they understand who they are dealing with.

            It only seems to be White people who are obsessed with giving these people a “voice”.

          • My idea of polity would be to give only White male clan-heads the franchise, those who head large families and have a track record of providing a social safety net for their own dependents. Empower them at the local level, aristocracy at the “state” level, monarchy “national.”

          • “social safety net” – is something that should NEVER exist at the Federal level – and probably not at the state level either.

            Social Safety nets are community things – they should never be a government run enterprise.

          • Federal gibs didn’t exist before the New Deal except for former Federal employees, such as Civil War veterans and the VA (Note: People a century ago complained about the endless demands of Civil War vets). There were state programs such as “Mother’s Aid” prior to that time, but they were strictly state programs. That was in accordance with the US Constitution.

          • Automation has made it so you are never going back to that. You will have a welfare state or next Depression you have a civil war

            Keep pushing wages down and not only will you have population shrinkage by low fertility but a growing welfare state.

            The “local safety net” Carlsdad suggested this failed utterly during the great depression creating mass migrations and outright starvation

            That failure is why we got The New Deal .

            Sure, Roosevelt didn’t have the Constitutional authority to do a fraction of what he did but he had mass support unlike the Business Plotters

            That matters

            Any reactionary worth a fig would understand Catabolic Collapse theory simplified, that society costs money and the more urban, more high tech the more expensive it gets till it collapses from an inability to support it

            You don’t want collapse, you must pay

            If our society can’t or won’t, than it falls into a more sustainable tier . Hopefully this tier includes running water and electricity but there is no guarantee of that

            If you get rid of safety nets, savings rates go through the roof and consumption, including having children here goes down

            That money, the huge amount people save so they can quit working or have a backup in case of injury or illness, beyond any private insurance which not being State backstopped won’t be stable during a big recession anyway is just a massive pool of cash awaiting malinvestment at best

            Low consumption kills companies that make mistakes , c.f Toys R Us

            Keynes with his paradox of thrift got this quite right

            High savings is great on an individual level ,bad for society if everyone is doing it

            That is why Keynesian economics dominated for nearly a century . It mostly prevented the most terrible depressions

            It seems to have run its course but how we get past it to something better than it or the you are on your own bull Libertarians puke up is beyond me

          • Exile,

            Your system would seem to diminish or possibly extinguish upward mobility for New Men. How would you contain the animosity of men born lowly? There’s always nobles willing to cash in with masses against their fellow aristocrats like the Gracchus brothers. Little foreign New Men that start their careers establishment loyalists then realizing their own talent will let them rise, become the heavy enforcers for the revolution (“a whiff of grapeshot” ring any bells?).

            From what I can gather your system somewhat reflects the Scotish Clan arrangement. That wasn’t exactly harmonious. Nor stable for the Scots as a people.

            Maybe I’m not understanding properly and I certainly don’t have an alternative.

            Please explain. I’m interested as I’m sure others are as well.

          • Rome had Novus Homo like Cicero with an aristocrat dominated patronage system. I’m thinking more of the Roman model than Scottish. They work their way up through patronage of established leaders, and there will need to be some provision for circulating clans and leaders. If you want “meritocracy” you’re going to get the kind of leadership we have now. I’m looking for something that mitigates that. We have hereditary social stratification and nepotistic “moats” against advancement now in an ostensibly democratic system. Better to be transparent about those elements with an express aristocracy than hide it beneath sham “meritocracy.”

          • Democracy can work on small scales, where you have to face the people you rule, everyone involved has skin in the game, and where the stakes are too low to invite pernicious outside influence. Church deacons, mayors, city counsels, county trial court judges. Probably a single state-level representative assembly (one house of Lord’s/Senate, one house of reps/parliament). Governorships or above are shown from experience to not work with democracy. Federal stuff is right out, that must be a monarch or caesar-like dictator.
            Like it or not, consolidated rule at the top is the natural order. You can insist on having a federal democracy, but it will only be a puppet of the actual absolute rulers of fedgov. I’d rather know my ruler than this current sham, which just insults everyone’s intelligence.

          • Yeah, the only way to contain the excesses of democracy is to avoid democracy altogether.

            That is not a good choice either. What do you do when you have a crazy or really evil leader? Nature has an answer; fight it out. That’s how mobsters do it but once you have control of a real state apparatus, the palace elite will probably discover that, despite their internal rivalries, they share one uniting interest; none of them want ‘the peasants’ involved. That’s how it was done in the Soviet Union, Mao’s China, post-WW2, pre 2003 Iraq, Egypt etc. They may have fought over power. But they understood that they had to keep ‘the people’ uninvolved. And ‘the people’ was probably better served by this than GoT style all-out civil war over the throne. But now you have an ‘elite’ that doesnt even have to pay lip service to ‘public opinion.’

            I think Victorian-style restricted democracy, among successful males, is better. Power taken solely by force or intrigue is thoroughly illegitimate. Maybe all power, as you once suggested, is. But keeping males w a stake in the success of society, involved, seems the smarter thing here.

          • You can best control an aberrant leader by not allowing complete power wrt that leader. There must be a competing group of individuals who can oppose such a leader. However, I concede that such a form of government failed Rome. None-the-less, spreading the power to oppose out among the masses—the marching morons, someone here termed them—is not an answer as it has proven here to have failed.

            I use to think China had found the answer, but with the “promotion” of Xi to a lifetime position, I have my doubt’s. Cesar was a pretty good guy after the civil war, then he was assassinated. Next, Augustus was pretty good as well as dictator. He died and everything went down hill. I suspect, same with China over time.

          • I would argue that the ERE did quite well for decades to centuries at a time before having to clear out and start up a new dynasty. Basil II is probably the best example. The ERE survived for over a thousand years, with it’s combination of imperial power offset by aristocratic and clerical power. (note that in the West, clerical power had an even stronger influence on Kings. Perhaps we need to move back toward a strong church..)

          • Compsci,

            It has failed us as well. The Constitution was specifically designed as an adversarial arrangement (the branches vying against each other, the states with the FEDERALS, the people and the government, etc.) because the Founders believed this was the most stable arrangement given human nature. Even this has decayed into a uni-party pimped out to megacorps.

            Most of the excesses of the Central Government can be linked to perverting the intentionally vague language the Founders used (Commerce Clause, roll of the SCOTUS, volunteerism of States within the Union, etc.). Essentially, powerful men employing crafty lawyers to find workarounds to the original intentions of the Framers… in order to gain or maintain their power.

            I’m being too verbose. In short, it all seems to turn to rot and perversion. I’m beginning to see the merits of the ethno state first/ system later argument human organization.

          • As Hoppe noted, Democracy has failed. But before digging its grave and looking for something else to replace it, one needs to discuss and understand why it failed. We seem to do little of that in this group.

            Some example points for discussion: What were the origins/reasons for our current “democracy”. Did we really create a political structure after the revolution that could be called a democracy as we know it today? Is birthright universal suffrage a reasonable thing given our knowledge human differences?

            These are not simply academic musings. As Z-man has taken great pains to point out. Dissidents want their own ethnic State—fine—but that State will need a government of sorts. How will this new State organize itself?

          • Compsci: you are wrong re discussion or need therefore of the inherent fallability of democracy.
            There are two things, both covered at length before: by definition the winner in a democracy must be near the median to win, and the loser will always seek to expand the franchise to win power. The first means you will always be stuck at the average level of the voting populace – you will never be able to have rules/policies except those that are acceptable to someone with (at best) an IQ of 97, and the accompanying time preference. The second principle means that the population will be of ever-decreasing quality. No matter how loftily you start, you end up ruled by the policies that are acceptable to dindus and boomers. Democracy is a slide into the cesspool, and hoping you can stop partway down the slide does not work.

        • The “democracy” virus in this country has hollowed out people’s brains so badly that they completely and totally refuse to acknowledge that the country is NOT technically a “democracy” – but a republic with democratically elected representation – and that the voters who elected that representation were of a limited franchise.

          I pretty much NEVER hear any reference to this country being a republic any more. I watched some of a Rick Steves special on fascism that was on PBS last week. During segments when he talked (Ricky is apparently a flaming leftie) – he just constantly kept putting the word “democracy” in as many times as he could.

          Yes – the lefties basically tweaked and molded and beat the form of the republic into what is for all practical purposes a “democracy” – but on the books – it still isn’t , and more importantly ( I believe) – it absolutely WAS NOT MEANT TO BE.

          I see a lot of words in the comment section here about where shit went wrong. Well in my opinion it went wrong probably some time back in the 1800s – when a lot of European lefties got imported. It was just a few decades from there into the early 1900s when the form of the Republic was gutted – and insemination of the “democracy” virus occurred.

          Quite frankly I think the country might have survived in it’s original form for quite a while longer – if it was only populated by it’s original inhabitants – and not filled up with a bunch of WHITE immigrants. Immigrants who – just like the POC immigrants of today – frankly didn’t give two shits about the “intents of the founders”.

          You know pretty much all of the prototypical stories I remember hearing from lefties about why things needed to be “progressed” – revolved around things like people stuck in the slums of NYC. Or factory workers being taken advantage of by brutal factory owners. All of these people they’re referring to – are immigrants. I’ve been of the opinion for a long time that if you could take the boat across the Atlantic to get here – then you could take it back the other way when it didn’t turn out the way you wanted it to.

          But that’s not the way things work. People came here – filled up the slums – and then started bitching about wanting unions, and more government , more communism, etc. The people who got on the boat and went back were few and far between. They only adopted an “American” ethos – after they were beaten down consistently.

          It’s pretty much the same exact dynamic we’re stuck in the middle of right now – except these days all the whiners have brown faces.

      • I have thought about this too. I think voting should be re-restricted to property owners (do mortgages count??), military service, other reasonable (e.g. non-DMV) civil service, and those with an economic stake, like business owners. Perhaps IQ or educational attainment or familial contribution should count as well. I also have come into the idea of “drafting”, meaning that from this pool of high-agency people you can be drafted into government service as a representative for limited time, almost like “super jury duty”. That would remove many of the hacks and psycopaths from the halls of power.

          • You guys…

            We’re in the situation we’re in because white males have become castrated clowns. We abdicated our role as house cleaners and citizens.

            Our system would still work if white men were still moral and religious(IOW knew right from wrong and were willing to fight for it). It is clear we are not the same caliber of men who even stood up to the corporations to get our rights as workers and to be treated humanely. We fought the oligarchs with guns and clubs and shed lots of blood to achieve what we had.

            Today’s white man responds to abuse by just rolling over like a whipped dog or stupidly blames the current ruling system.

            We deserve the situation we are in.

          • How about all of the white men who have fed at the public trough their entire adult lives thereby failing to make or produce or sell anything of value?

            How about all of the white men who have belonged to public employee unions their entire adult lives?

            How about all of the white men who, when called to the jury box in the prosecution of white men and white women on charges of failing to file income tax returns, returned guilty verdicts?

            How about all of the white men who chose to be law enforcement officers and arrested white men and white women for illegally possessing a firearm notwithstanding the unambiguous language of the second amendment?

            Such white men, I submit to you, are no friend of ours.

          • People with your views are a tiny tiny tiny number and as a White man as much as I think the state sucks, I wouldn’t jury null income tax evasion especially for someone who is rich.

            Pay your share.

            Also there no color bar on guns either, If I null for some White idiot I am also going to null for other races,

            Just being White doesn’t mean you aren’t a moron who should not have guns wheres being Black doesn’t mean you shouldn’t

            I’m generally pro gun but I want consistent law not something separate

            This doesn’t mean there isn’t a need for massive tax and spending reform , there clearly is.

            However if you want a functioning system you will have either a VAT tax of an income tax and you’;; pay or do time, no opt out

            That or enjoy your violent degrades craphole society

        • I am leaning towards something similar. My off-the-scoff suggestion would be married males who own property. Females, criminals, destitute loser males absolutely NOT. All three, for very different reasons, have motive to NOT support the current order.

          To make room for very successful life-long bachelors, maybe there should be a deliberate loop hole for them, w a demand of, say, 5 or 10 times the property required for married men. This to make room for unmarried Henry Ford/Carnegie types so as not to incentivize them to overthrow the system.

          (The losers and criminals explain themselves, for women it is b/c their instinct is to ‘shit test’ (ie fitness test) males to find the ones most worthy of bearing children for. This involves rebelling w/o forethought to consequences if successful and is Darwinian game theory instinct, ingrained in possibly all (K-selected) female mammals and cannot be escaped. Besides, women have significant indirect power b/c of their inherent sexual attractiveness to males. Augmenting this power by also making them voters and politicians, leads to societal collapse; and instantly give them a whole slew of beta male
          ‘groupies’. Women and the vote WILL go badly, VERY badly. See John Glubb or Cheateau Heartiste or others if you want to contest this point. Anyway, this was all somewhat a digression, but a common sticking point on the journey from blue pill to red pill country).

          • I slightly disagree.

            It might be worthwhile to give a white woman married to a white man with 3 or more biological children the vote.

            Married white women with kids who go to church overwhelmingly vote against the Democrats.

            We want to incentivize white women to be wives and mothers. The best way to do it is giving status to women in those roles. The bevy will follow. Women holding political office would be absolutely prohibited under any and all circumstances.

          • Giving the women you mention the vote encourages them to see themselves as ‘independent entities’ and not ‘mothers and wives.’ Women are masters of wielding indirect power, ‘influence’. Giving them direct power is not wise.

            Women should be exempt from certain duties of citizenship, military service, jury duty etc. And not partake (directly) in politics or war.

          • Given US wages and the fact most men will never own a house , the answer is no, not gonna happen.

            Also it’s going to be very hard for you to enforce it, if you can take power most of your troops will be those so called loser males , many criminals and all will be armed

            They aren’t going toi like it and giving them “revolutionaries franchise” makes your system illegitimate

            You might be able to manage male only suffrage, maybe but that too will be a stretch,

        • ” military service”
          The filth willing to kill foreign children for the Obamas, Bushes Clintons of the world should not be allowed any say, any time, any where.

    • The question always is: what do we replace it with?

      WE have no choice in the matter but we will prolly have a dictator imposed on us.

      Thus is what Plato said would happen sequentially

      • Plato observed in The Republic that democracy is followed by tyranny.

        Best case scenario is an authoritarian right-wing regime, which is the historical norm, versus a totalitarian left-wing.

        “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other” – John Adams.

        The idea of equality is like the Energizer bunny – it keeps going and going.

        • Equality is the opiate they feed the masses whom they’ve given the vote to. Make suffrage earned and forget equality. You want to call the shots, earn that right. Can’t do it, too bad—you’re not qualified to decide matters for me, or anyone else.

          • How is “equality” defined? Equality before God, equality before the law? The framers certainly didn’t mean the political, social and moral equality of all, but gradually it’s come to that.

          • Ris, correct. Equality as we have defined it today is basically “equally ability” via the concept of the blank slate. Now we know and see all sorts of unequal ability, which we explain away as due to circumstance beyond the individual’s control. So of course, we make up a cause, like racism, poverty, etc. and award a victim status. I propose none of that.

            Equality (under the law) of opportunity to earn the vote is all I am talking about. That would be backed by law. Proving that opportunity to earn suffrage was infringed would be harder than a simple statistical showing of unequal numbers or adverse impact. Otherwise, we’d have everyone suing for the right to vote and we’d be back where we started.

            Owning land has been proposed. That might be a tough one. But why was owning land as a suffrage condition used back in the 18th century? Land was wealth, people working hard and owning land, like farmers/settlers, had a stake in the polity. Today, we are not a land of settlers/farmers. So perhaps some other measure of wealth is needed to separate the tax producers from the tax consumers.

            Then there are easier (less complex) conditions. Age of majority is 21, yet you vote at 18. Huh? Make it 25. You’ll be out of college, perhaps married and with a kid on the way. All sobering experiences when voting.

            Are you on welfare? Do you receive any type of government largess—such as earned income tax credit? Sorry, minimal condition is 5 years without any Federal/State/Local benefits. SSI is a hard one here as well.

            Anyway, you get the idea. Point is to get the free riders out of the picture. And yes I know how unfeasible this is at this time in our history, but I’d argue that it is closer to the Founder’s original intent than what we practice today.

      • Fine tuning the electoral process will work about as well as fine tuning the tax code to chance human behavior. No, white people will continue to screw around until the system is weak enough for the hard men to take over. Then the people at that time will see what they are given.

    • Only monarchy, oligarchy, or aristocracy allow a “final backstop” against tyranny. You can’t do in the Politburo and the entire NKVD, but Kubla Khan can have an “accident.”
      There’s also the time preference issue, which I think has been raised before by Z. An elected official only cares about the events during his tenure; the knock-on effects 40 years later are “somebody else’s problem.” (Thanks for the vibrancy, Boomers!) An oligarch is worried about whether his son’s sons’s son inherits the oligarch’s wealth and power, or if he ends up in the Lubyanka. DJT can’t be arsed to give an airborne fornication about what comes after January 20, 2025. The incentives of democracy for the elected rulers are inevitably and inherently discivic and short time preference. Praying for an unending stream of Cincinnatus-es is not a workable system. Democracy delinda est.

      • Trump doesn’t care what comes after January 2025? I doubt it. He has a sizable fortune/empire and large family to pass it on too. He is the King in Hoppe’s description of governmental types.

        Now perhaps Trump doesn’t care about replacing Whites with Browns and what not, but I doubt if he’ll destroy the infrastructure he pins his business holdings upon. Now for low level political types, I agree. They make hay while the sun shines, then get out.

        • Compsci, your rebuttal is not true. DJT has added $4 trillion to our national debt; no rational person who cared about actually having to repay that would do so. He has not ended anchor babies. The corps of Engineers and the 1st Marines are not ending the invasion and building the Wall. He has not ended existential threats to his (our?) Nation, despite it being within the realm of his possible power. He demonstrably care yuuugely more about the immediate future than 20+ years from now, when he will be dead and gone. His actions show he values his public reputation more than the continued existence of his nominal people. Sorry buddy, we got fooled again.

      • Educated Redneck, please give me the names of the Boomers in Congress who voted for the Immigration Reform Act of 1965

        • Ivar: False question. Boomers and Saint Regan gave us 12,000,000 new, Totally Authentic Americans from South America, then invited in the next 30 million invaders. Hart-Cellar opened the door, but Boomers failed to close the door and actually brought in the Vibrant Hordes that are replacing us. Moreover, you profited handsomely from your progeny’s dispossession. You didn’t eat the seed corn, you sold it for thirty shekels. Hope that 401k RoR was worth your granddaughter getting Mollie Tibitz’d.

    • Democracy gives equal weight to everyone and is inherently expansive. Zman has covered this.

      Government by the elite is the only answer. The system must adhere to the following conditions.

      1. Government only by those with skin in the game.

      2. Explicit ethnostate that openly acknowledges that all people are not equal.

    • Right, and how do you know the other forms of gov’munt cant be controlled in similar or worse ways? Florence had a republic controlled by the medicis, but before long they just up and made one their monarch! Truth in advertising!

    • The time to rebel against this system was at least 25 years ago. Do it now and you will be in prison or dead, and everyone will hate you for being a bigoted extremist who interrupted their Netflix bingeing. The founding fathers assumed that if we needed to rebel, it would NOT be against a technocratic, militarized police state ruled over by a hostile foreign elite. The game is changed, and so should the game plan.

    • Being a “democracy cuck” as you say, probably makes sense at the local level where (depending on where you live) the people you vote for will have to look you in the eye and answer for themselves on a regular basis. That’s why villages are better than towns, and towns are better than cities.

    • An essential ingredient in good governance is men of good character and integrity. Character matters. A benevolent monarch or aristocracy would be preferable to our corrupt “democracy”. Without unifying first principles, and virtuous people, we will always be vulnerable to the trickle down corruption from the top of private morals and passivity in the face of tyranny.

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