Dissident Versus Dispossessed

It is natural for dissidents, collectively and individually, to decry their exclusion from the institutions of society. Collectively, their exclusion means the systematic exclusion of their ideas and their critiques of the prevailing orthodoxy. At the individual level, it means exclusion from the pleasures and benefits of their career. There’s also the fact that human beings are social animals. Exclusion, especially systematic exclusion, is felt as a personal rejection and that hurts even the toughest person.

There is, of course, the unfairness of it all. The people in charge of the institutions rely on purges and exclusion to protect their interests. There is the assumption that they rely on their institutional power to combat their enemies, because they lack the intellectual power to win a fair fight. They are petty men, who would rather persist in their error than face correction, so they use their power over the institutions to purge those who will challenge them and point out their error.

The natural temptation, therefore, is for dissidents to seek access to the institutions, in order to make their case. After all, if they can just get on the stage and make their points, so the theory goes, the superiority of their claims will win over the crowd and win them status. This is the mentality of the reformer, who continues to have a love and appreciation for the institution from which he has been purged. His complaint is largely personal, as he does not oppose the institution, just the people in it.

This has always been the emphasis of the paleocons. They are the result of the neocons gaining control of the conservative institutions. Those neocons then set about purging anyone who opposed their agenda. The paleos came to be more defined by their expulsion than by their ideas. They criticize the men in the institutions, rather than the institutions themselves. Their adversaries made the fight personal, and the paleocons were willing to take it personally. They still do.

That is the trap the modern dissident must avoid. Majorities will always place trust in institutions, as those institutions, if not purpose built, have been adapted to maintain their majority status. Man is a social animal and expects his participation in society to have benefits. Similarly, his society expects benefits from his inclusion. In a social order built around institutions, the natural dynamic will be to seek the benefits of those institutions, while maintaining those institutions.

The exile, in contrast, denied access to the institutions, will place his trust in ideas. His social sphere should evolve around shared ideas. That normal social dynamic will define the exile by his contribution to the intellectual life of his social group. The value he gains from it will be the refining and expansion of the ideas he shares with his fellow dissidents. For the proper dissident, exile provides the environment for a dynamic and creative intellectual life that exists outside of the institutions.

The best example of this is the Protestant reformers we call the Puritans, who eventually settled in North America. They began as reformers of the English church, but eventually ended up as exiles. They were not only exiled from the church, but from English society and eventually their country. As a result, Puritanism was able to develop into a fully formed and independent set of religious and social beliefs. Puritanism probably could not have survived if not for the exile of its adherents.

The birth of European conservatism is another example of how exile creates the dynamics for a new intellectual framework. The aristocrats who fled the French Revolution, found themselves as strangers in foreign lands. In exile, they first waited for restoration, but then moved beyond that to creating an authentic alternative to the radicalism of the Jacobins. The conservatism of Joseph de Maistre remains an authentic alternative to radicalism, because it evolved outside of it.

That is an important thing for modern dissents to grasp. The conservatism of Bill Buckley was always a Burkean response to American radicalism. That is, a response that evolved within the same institutions as the radicals. Burke did not develop his ideas as an outsider, but as an insider. Similarly, the American Right in the last century evolved in the elite institutions, as a traveling partner with the radicalism that developed after the Second World War. Left and Right were co-dependent.

This is the difference between the dissident and the dispossessed. The former not only accepts his outsider status, but relishes it. Free from the institutions, he can develop his own mental framework as a genuine alternative to the prevailing orthodoxy. The dissident sees his expulsion as the break, the vital break, from the historical and intellectual timeline. Rather than being carried forward by the momentum of his inheritance, he creates a new vision to replace the old.

The dispossessed, in contrast, are haunted by their expulsion. Who they are is defined by their loss of institutional support. They are the bitter ex-wife or the disgruntled former employee. They stand outside, perhaps shouting criticisms, as their identity is an entirely negative one. They relish every slight. They celebrate being criticized by those inside, because that’s who they are. They are people purged from that which had given them purpose and meaning. They are men without a polis and nothing more.

If dissidents are going to have a role in what comes next, it must be as the creators of something independent and indifferent to the prevailing orthodoxy. Communities of ideas, operating outside of the institutions, are the greatest threat to those institutions, because they cannot be co-opted and they cannot be easily attacked. Like the Puritans, the dissident eventually has to accept that what comes next for him is out in the wilderness, away from the existing order and independent of it.

For sites like this to exist, it requires people like you chipping in a few bucks a month to keep the lights on and the people fed. It turns out that you can’t live on clicks and compliments. Five bucks a month is not a lot to ask. If you don’t want to commit to a subscription, make a one time donation. Or, you can send money to: Z Media LLC P.O. Box 432 Cockeysville, MD 21030-0432. You can also use PayPal to send a few bucks, rather than have that latte at Starbucks. Thank you for your support!

140 thoughts on “Dissident Versus Dispossessed

    • vxxc said: “I would put my trust in blood, lead, steel. Mere ideas are nothing but ideas, blood and steel are real.”

      “Bad advice is often most destructive to the adviser.”
      -Aulus Persius Flaccus

  1. We’ll see now if conservatives have any discipline. With Walmart signaling they are now anti-gun, will the rural base boycott en masse?

    Don’t get your hopes up, too many of our people are “follow the leader” and Trump isn’t the type to tell off the Waltons.

    IMO, its time for a 99% estate tax on the billionaires, traitorous scum.

  2. Good description of the psychology of dissidents vs dispossessed. But those institutions captured by the enemy happen to be the reins of state, not just private enterprises. And state institutions have some unique characteristics that make them very nice to be in control of, and equally uncomfortable to be in opposition to.

    To really do as suggested it, it seems to me we would need to set up a parallel government. To call that a tall order does not even begin to describe it.

  3. Awesome essay, which is really going to stick with me. It made me view things in a different way. I’ll be saving a personal copy of this one.

  4. Here’s the key: being “indifferent to the prevailing orthodoxy.”

    Or as Twain put it, “When you find yourself on the side of the majority, it’s time to pause and reflect.”

    Or as my veteran Dad put it before I signed up, “If you’re not pissing off the bureaucrats then you’re not doing your job.”

    The dissident mindset has to be centered on what is objectively true, good, and just … which to my mind means we all have to be secessionists. E.g. I’m forced to pay taxes for government education but I choose to homeschool. A long time ago I seceded from TV programming … it started with the NFL and now encompasses just about everything on a screen. I refuse to bring Big Tech monitoring devices into my home. I’ve successfully seceded from Big Ag, which means I also don’t need Big Pharma. These are tip-of-the-iceberg things, but many dissident-thinking people really need to transition from orthodoxy to orthopraxy … i.e. BEING different. There are a myriad of daily decisions that need evaluation and judgments to ensure consistency with the dissident worldview. That is, if our ideas are to have consequences.

    • I think of the Puritans as first and foremost reformers. They no longer exist in England for that reason. In exile, they picked up more radical ideas from Continental Protestants, then in the wilderness of America, they became a stand alone identity. The reason American high culture is still influenced by Puritan ideas is of what they became in exile.

    • Good essay. This especially surprised me:

      “Conservative reformers, on the other hand, valued continuity, hierarchy, and tradition. A prime example was the very much underrated second-generation Italian Reformer, Girolamo Zanchi. While solidly Calvinistic, he maintained an explicit appreciation for Aquinas and the medieval tradition in general.”

      I just recently learned about the radical divide that used to exist in Anglicanism. I knew of High Church versus Low Church, but the differences between them were RADICAL at times. Anglicanism had no central theologian to refer to (like Luther or Calvin), and the field was often wide open. High Church Anglicans would state “we’re essentially Roman Catholic,” and held the Roman Catholic belief in the real presence, while Low Church Anglicans would unabashedly state “Roman Catholicism is anti-Christ,” and believed in throwing leftover Eucharist to the birds, lol. There were some High Church Anglican “Anglo-Catholic” priests in the early 20th century who followed Catholicism in literally everything. Their theology (including acceptance of Vatican 1), churches (statues to Mary and the Saints, for example), and services (all in Latin) were indistinguishable from early 20th century Catholicism. The reason they did not simply convert was they believed that the English church should re-enter the Roman Catholic fold as it had left, as a body. Much of the remnants of this Anglican “Anglo-Catholicism” entered the Anglican Ordinariates established by Pope Benedict about 10 years ago (in which they were allowed to retain certain elements of the Book of Common Prayer and such). The mass service they utilize now has elements from the Vatican II Novus Ordo mass inserted, and utilizes modern bible translations. One Ordinariate priest made it clear that the mass he was using as an Anglican/Episcopalian, before entering into the Ordinariate, was in fact MORE (traditional) Catholic than the one he is currently utilizing. Previously, he was offering the Tridentine Mass, rendered in English (and they use the very solemn, dignified, and pleasing to the ear old English of the Book of Common Prayer and the King James Bible and such when possible). On the whole, however, it’s quite clear that the Ordinariate is still more traditional Roman Catholic than the mainstream Novus Ordo post Vatican II Catholic Church. What a twisted mess, lol.

  5. Pick-up Baseball. Many of us played as kids. I’ve been up & down memory lane looking for what can be applied ‘here & now’. It’s not about the actual game of baseball (mostly unwatchable anymore). It’s the attitudes & lessons. Rules were flexible. Based on circumstances and agreement. Cooperation was required. But so was honor. No clubhouse lawyers arguing. It was simple. It was the act of play, keeping it going as a group. People floated in and out. You wanted to play, you had to ‘get’ what it was about. It was loosely tied to “The Bigs” as an ideal but that didn’t overwhelm the actual circumstances on the ground.
    It contained a sense of Joy & Wonder we would do well to keep in mind as we come together to play Dissident Baseball.

  6. any institution subject to social pressure is bound to be co-opted by the left. this is why the future of the dissident movement lies with a fully decentralized gab.ai (if shitlibs are unable to take it down — although torba might end up having to flee the country when libs do away with 1st amendment via a hate crime exception) and with an incorruptible bitcoin. maybe mencius moldbug’s fully decentralized urbit project if it takes off. a free future, if we are to have one, requires more innovation of this type.

  7. Institutions are man made and even the best ones last only a few generations without the need for a restoration. Those restorations hardly ever come, and parallel institutions have to be set up. This is why home schooling and charter schools are so opposed by the insiders. Humanity is fallen and after so much time, everything turns to tears. Our default is to only learn from tears.

  8. The problem with these perspectives is, we are not ruled by men with contrary ideas. We are ruled by Jews, plain and simple. And Jews do not have what we would call “ideas,” their ideology simply consists of, “Yes, we looted your entire country, and we’re never giving it back. And if you try to take it back, we will crush you using proxies.” That’s pretty much it.

    They disguise their never-ending war against White Christendom in baloney ideas, but it’s all a cloak to conceal pure, naked aggression and plunder. Desegregation, civil rights, “racial justice”, these were all a cloak for the simple project of weaponizing negroes to attack whites, burn their cities, destroy their communities, and rape their women. Feminism was just a way to weaponize White women against their menfolk, destroy White families, and reduce White fertility. Gay and trans nonsense, just an assault on White public mores and erosion of social capital. Flooding the country with mestizo peasants is simply the Jewish war on the White working classes, while the simultaneous “legal” flood of pajeets and chongs is their assault on the White upper classes. The goal is to seal off the upper echelons with a thick brown layer of pajeet insulation, so Whites are permanently cut off from any access to power and control.

    The duskies are all obvious proxies, the White feminists, “anti-racists,” and SJWs are all merely White zombies, infected with Jewish mind-worms intended to turn them against their own people.

    The last time Jews gained direct total control over a country (Russia 1917), they slaughtered upwards of 20 million European Christians. They have more or less total control over the United States today. Sobering thought. You can see the groundwork being laid everywhere, unapologetically, and in plain sight. I don’t know what use ideas are going to be against this.

    • Easy on the black pills, goy. More of us are Noticing. Putin’s even slowly clawing Russia back from the (((oligarchs))). They won this with Culture War, we win it back the same way. Doomposting and treating the Jews like they are supernatural are counter-productive. Your own ideas are of use against this if you get them under control and present them in a more measured way. Help just one goy Notice today – pitch in for the Culture War effort, and you’ll feel better.

    • Jewish population of Russian empire was about 5mil with total population of about 175 mil. Approximating 5 kids per Jewish family there were about 1mil Jewish adults or about 500K Jewish males. And they killed 20 mil Russian Christians???
      Next tell us how a sparrow raped an elephant.

      • Tell me how a queen bee makes all those pounds of honey. Stalin was only one man with a pen and a phone – his victims must be fake b/c he couldn’t possibly do all that by himself?

        Stop being obtuse, we’re not stupid.

        And don’t start with “Stalin wasn’t Jewish” – I’m using him to make the point about the system being centralized. I can name the 1917 Jewish Bolsheviks if you like (and start with Trotsky’s assent with Lenin in murdering the Czar & his family).

        From the Jerusalem Post:

        Half of the top contenders in the Central Committee of the Communist Party to take power after Lenin’s health declined in 1922 – Lev Kamenev, Trotsky and Zinoviev – were Jewish.

        If you want to start debating things like body counts vs. the Jewish population of Russia, this opens the wooden doors to some follow up questions you might have a few million reasons to not want to answer.

    • Problem is our side is loaded with theory boys who live in the world of thoughts and abstract notions. They are not organizers, planners, etc. They think it will be business as usual for the next 50 years or so.

      As it is the Progs are well on their way of putting us in a economic ghetto with the importation of 3rd worlders. It will just get worse from here on out.

      Politically and socially white males are one or two elections away from being turned into pariahs by the ruling class. Imagine what a Warren/Buttplug ticket will do to us once they get into power.

      Lastly I’d say, make your preparations and have a evac plan if things get bad. Remember if Warren gets in the DR is finished, guys like Z will end up on the street.

      • “Problem is our side is loaded with theory boys who live in the world of thoughts and abstract notions”

        Those of us who are spending the weekends (and myself more so) in the woods disagree. I have an “evac plan.” I’m practicing it. One of the pages includes “don’t listen to “guys” who think Democratic ticket X-Y is the end of our race.” The only thing I imagine about a Warren-Buttplug ticket is more of the same, with a few more laughs. Tighten your shit up, Whitey.


  9. A few suggestions for the modern right wing dissident.

    1. “7 Ways to Maximize Misery.”

    2. “How to Improve Reasoning Skills.”

    3. living well on less.

    4. Get a hobbby.

    5. Don’t be paranoid, but be prepared.
    “The Beginner’s Guide To Sensible Prepping.”

    6. “First Aid Training.”

    7. Cheer the hell up.

    • Bologna, you were at your best when the quotes were your own words, not others’, but this is good, really good.
      2, 5, and 6 are on the list, esp. 6 & 5.
      (Yeah, I see you working voluntary overtime.
      Thanks much for 6!)

    • “Cheer the hell up.”

      That is important. Speaking for myself, losing my faith in God set me into a deep, very long depression, at times quite despondent. I’ve begun to make some headway in rising out of it though. Nietzschean “enjoy the struggle,” “what does not kill me, makes me stronger” cannot simply be willed into existence, it is a process (for me, a slow one), and this way of thinking/perceiving/feeling slowly begins takes hold of you.

      I recommend this essay:

      Note that the author implicitly attempts to corral his readers into liberalism (in my opinion), which I reject (even if Nietzsche would have had it this way, which I don’t believe he would have).

      Being a dissident, and attempting to create and live a new and better world, can be very enjoyable. “That which is ready to fall, shall ye also push!”

      “I am in a world of s^*t, yes. But I am alive. And I am not afraid.”

  10. The main problem is accepting that what we’ve been kicked out of is “representative government.” Our critique seems to be, not that RG is a good idea staffed with bad people; it’s that the very IDEA of representative government is a failure. We don’t acknowledge the legitimacy of any government not based on the consent of the governed, but since the vast majority of “the governed” are Marching Morons… put as simply as I can, we need to be able to answer the following question: “By what right do I rule over you, or you over me?” Because there’s going to be an elite, and if we’re going to build parallel institutions we must define a) who it is, and b) by what right they rule. T

    • Look to our ancestors for some clues. Clan leaders in a household-patronage system ala the Romans, Celts & Teutons. Social/political elite status stems from heading a family and meeting its social obligations, and military/police service. Those who vote are the ones who pay and farm and fight, ala the Greeks. The details can be worked out in many ways, but putting that kind of skin back in the leadership game is the basic idea, and it’s a way of selecting from a pool of leaders who have already demonstrated their ability to care for and manage a large group of dependents/clients and their willingness to fight and work for the public good.

      • Exile: I’ve been reading a dystopian fiction book by Ash Donaldson (the Counter Currents’ writer of “Be All You Can Be,”) and he has some well thought out ideas for how to rebuild a strong, self confident society from the ground up. For others who are Christians (as I am) be forewarned; he is a critic of Christianity and a proponent of Asatru. Don’t get butt hurt and throw out the baby with the bath water. He has really given thought to how to mold men and train women as a community endeavour, and is worth reading

        • You can probably tell from my other comments that I’m perfectly OK with pagans and Christians alike as long as neither one starts the “one true faith, your God(s) are false” stuff. Pagans have to face that Christians are the vast majority of religious Whites out there, Christians have to accept that we’re never going to be a movement that includes “mankind” regardless of what their faith says, and both have to recognize that the movement comes first, including respecting rules against proselytizing and in-fighting b/c muh True God(s). As for atheists, the same applies – we can’t waste time debating shit like whose God is or isn’t real when we’re trying to build White nations in the face of hostiles and subversives. If some groups can’t stand each other they’re welcome to split off after we establish ourselves well enough to tackle second-tier priorities, decades from now.

          For the foreseeable future, the safest place for White Christians, Pagans and based atheists alike is together under a White banner. Sam Hyde was right about the enemy: “Do not forget that these people want you broke, dead, your kids raped and brainwashed, and they think it’s funny.” They’re not going to make faith-based exceptions. You were born wearing the only uniform that counts.

          We can worry about in-fighting once the peace is won. Since that’s unlikely in our lifetimes, we need to start learning to get along with each other if we want to accomplish anything that lasts beyond us.

          • Exile,

            You know where I stand on faith. As far as paganism goes… I lament the for their souls and pray for their redemption. But as far as I am concerned they wear the same uniform as I do and if they our for Our People then they are My People. I can pray for them while I stand shoulder to shoulder.

    • I think a lot of folks here promoting a dictatorship are little more than dogs looking for a new master and who imbibed too much bath salts, Any man who who cedes his autonomy and bends his knee to some tyrant deserves a bullet in the skull. For that is not a man but a mewing slave.

      Any governing system works if it is administered by Angels. Problem is we aren’t Angels. We’re flawed men. Our system worked as well as can be expected until the voting demographics changed. And white males sold their ballsacks for a paycheck.

      Indeed a large percentage of our populace is rather dull – partly the way as they were educated /indoctrinated by the state-big business and their innate genetics. But if left to their own means they won’t be much of a bother. They never were prior to the police state. All they want is a decent paying job to take care of their family and to give them some hope that things will get better.

  11. Z brings home a harsh reality. Red-pilling means the death and loss of a loved one – America. You see all the stages of grief in online comments – denial (Breitbarts), anger (Fedposters), bargaining (Boomerposting), depression (black-pillers) and acceptance (dissidents).

    Dissidence is a lifestyle of itself and requires first and foremost a willingness to subject yourself to the same corrosive process of deconstruction our enemies have used to wreck our culture.

    The Cultural Marxists bet that our collective moral and cultural resolve couldn’t withstand challenge from within and they were right. They strained the system at the cracks in its Enlightenment foundation and too few people were willing and able to abide the necessary hypocrises to deflect the incessant push for self-destructive logical/moral consistency. We let America be crucified on the crossbars of Jefferson’s “all men are created equal” and statue-poem’s “give me your tired..”

    By trying to be consistent with those impossible ideals, we Chernobyled America – all because we couldn’t stand to be called hypocrites and bigots. Too few of us were willing to say, “those are nice words but we live here. Those rights are for our children and those we choose, not everyone. So we’re hypocrites. Raise an army if you don’t like it.”

    Having dispossessed ourselves, what now?

    The American, French, Bolshevik and Nazi revolutions, as well as dozens in smaller countries (Spain, Vietnam, Cuba), show the ineffectiveness over time of centrist reaction and counter-revolution against revolutions from either the Left or Right, from revolution (America, Revolutionary France, Russia) or counter-revolutionary reaction (Napoleonic France, Spain, Germany). Essentially, to fight revolutionaries, you have to be a revolutionary. Absent conditions for a NazBol-style putsch, the struggle for America and the West is first cultural, second political, and not at all paramilitary. I don’t see NazBol weather in the near future and hope we don’t.

    A cultural revolution is what destroyed us. Absent violence, it’s what we need to re-found something better. Let’s be ready for both if need be. Let’s re-examine all of our cherished beliefs. Some are timeless and worth saving. Some had fatal flaws that hastened our decline. Instead of standing outside begging to be let back in, lets just walk away and build something better, from the ground up, in the spaces they don’t yet occupy, in the spaces they claim to hold but don’t yet control, and in spaces we don’t yet know of. We need the culture first, based on biology, kin and real human nature this time. That’s the foundation we’re working on here and now. Parallel and entirely external institutions come later, in the next generations.

    We can give them a base to build from – Z’s shade tree for their future. It beats grief-posting and meaningless voting rituals, and we get to piss off some people who richly deserve it in the process.

    • The black-pillers are the interesting group, to me at least. I’ve been there. They’re black pilled because they still can’t view a world different from their past. They look at the country and say, “We’ll never get back our institutions, our culture, our people.” And they’re right, so they’re depressed.

      Once you accept that the old country is gone, but that we can build something new, you lose the black pill. But you have to let go first, and that’s hard.

      I look to the future, and I see small groups forming. Quiet attempts at building new networks and infrastructure. I also see our opponents losing credibility among whites even as they grow in power, indeed, because they grow in power.

      History provides many examples of ethnic groups breaking away or gaining significant sovereignty. And those yahoos can do it, white people definitely can as well.

      • Once you accept that the old country is gone, but that we can build something new, you lose the black pill.

        In fact, I’m half-convinced that the Mohammadan invasion of Europe is a good thing. Our culture is rotting from within, but an infusion of existential enemies might just be what the patient needs, a stimulation of the tribal immune system.

        The recent elections in German states Sachsen and Brandenburg turned out a landslide victory for the Alternativ für Deutschland in the youngest age bracket. Similar things are happening in Scandinavia, where the Commies mysteriously have stopped their yammering about lowering the voting age. The institutional brainwashing in schools and on state television is losing its power, fast. Generation Zyklon is coming.

        • If you accept that the old country is gone, and somehow it survives in some sort of meaningful fashion, that becomes a huge win. But don’t count on it or bet on it. If it happens, it is an unexpected gift.

          • Well, I think the old country disappeared before the modern Moslem invasion of Europe even started – you could argue that it disappeared in 1914.

            Nations – tribes – die, of course, but they’re a lot more resilient than you might think. The Basques have survived the Carthaginians, the Romans, the Visigoths, the Almohadans, the Franks, the Aragonese and the Castilians. They’re not the same Basques today as those ancestors who fought the Mohammadans, but they certainly exist in a meaningful fashion.

          • WWI is not studied enough. I’m very very old Scot-Scots/Irish with some 1629 Puritan—we carved the country out of the howling wilderness and fought every war starting with King Philips. We’re still here and we’ve kept our identity all that time. We ain’t dead yet. Not by a long shot.

          • WWI was the big turning point. Europe started to lose its self-confidence in that war. WWII shattered it.

            That said, the United States didn’t suffer in those war, and, yet, we allowed all of this. WWI and WWII were just part of a larger trend, but they definitely accelerated it.

    • What you describe will take a century. We don’t have that sort of luxury let alone the organizational and intellectual talent to pull off such a effort mass re-engineering of the white race.

      This is why it’s hard to take the DR seriously. Grandiose notions worthy of a L Ron Hubbard sci-fi novel.

      • If you can’t think 100 years+ ahead, I’m not interested in being part of your “we.” If you have such an enormous disconnect with the dissident Right, why are you spending so much time commenting on this site?

        If I’m wrong, please share your next-10-years plan for winning. As for “re-engineering” the white race, it’s more a matter of remembering how to make everyone stop “de-engineering” us.

        Once again. what is your point in commenting here if your believe what you say? If “we” shouldn’t listen to us here, who should “we” listen to and what better ideas do they have for “our team?”.

  12. Agree in toto…*except* for one crucial institution: Government (i.e. that which claims a monopoly of initiated force and violence over a defined geographic area). Even if you can’t seize power in the overall institution of government in a democracy—because it attracts and is led mainly by sociopaths—you CAN seek positions from which you can deny power to “them” (cf Ron Paul). This is the reason for Trumpian populism in the U.S. (no matter whether he’s delivering on his promises; the point is that he was elected *based* on those promises), as well as parties such as the Front Nationale in France, the AFD in Germany, La Lega in Italy, and the Brexit and UKIP parties in Great Britain. Yes, “woken” social, cultural and “thought” organizations can be bypassed in favor of dissident groupings, but government—with its abundant and eager use of violence to get what it wants—is too dangerous to cede entirely to the sociopaths.

  13. The challenge of course being the ability to remain fully independent of the institutions. You have to expect the institutions to use the courts to force you to associate with people you do not want in your group. You have to expect people to “play along” to get inside and then try to destroy the group from within…that which is not explicitly conservative will eventually become liberal.

    While we often think of platforms and physical locations – the internet for the former, the “new world” Puritans for the latter – one of the best ways to be free from institutions is to simply not be dependent upon them for your daily bread. It’s hard to do, and nobody is 100% successful all the time. But simple things like having no debt, consumer, mortgage, car, or other, free you up in many ways. Being free from the “benefits” of entitlement programs is another…make your own way. Being free from government employment, or to the extent maybe that’s not possible for you, doing that work in a way that is cut off from your day to day life, makes you freer to pursue your own interests. When I was in the Air Force, I liked it, but I never really felt like I was part of it. I always maintained an aloof detachment from it. It made it easier to leave, it made it easier to criticize and change things (because I didn’t care if they promoted me or not, I was there to get the job done). I rarely socialized within the organizations to which I belonged finding my own paths away from all that. I can be done, but you have to choose not to be defined by it because once you do, you’ll ingratiate yourself to stay in the club.

    Getting free is hard. If you’re largely debt free, have a steady job or better yet are self-employed, get married and stay married, have a few kids, don’t do drugs, and shut off the television for 99% of the week, welcome to the counter-culture.

    Too many people are afraid to say what needs to be said or do what needs to be done because they care too much for the approval and endorsement of their alleged “betters”…and they have too much they’re unwilling to lose.

    • Amen Brother…I would also add shut off the internet for a bit every week also and get into meatspace… Meeting lots of good people that think like we do just don’t get online much…

  14. Whatever we do let’s not get too bogged down in endless rule making. A handful of well thought out positive and negative covenants. Let’s allow cultural norms and social expectations and pressures to do the rest. We have a long, rich and successful history. Let’s modernize what will work for us and the kind of civilization we’d like to rebuild and see florish. Race -> ethnic subculture lays the foundation.

    • Exactly where I am. Working on some basics like that for American Identity posting in a month or two. Some basics so far, subject to mods as I go along – the People as a whole are paramount, political influence is primarily based on clan, not individuals. All religions are separate from and subordinate to civil authority in the fashion of the Byzantine Emperors in the Orthodox Church. We don’t want the “Judeo-Christian” backdoor that Z cited in his recent podcast on PragerU’s Talmudry regarding loyalty in a US vs. Israel war. It’s an open invitation to hijack your citizens highest loyalties. Kin > Community > Religion. Kin & Community will have to be 1A-1B in some aspects, but religion is definitely 3rd place re: both.

      • Here’s the thing. No matter what rules or structures you put on things, they need to be obeyed and carried out by the people in the community of people around you. If you have a good community, a lot of the structure of it is not necessary, just go informally and you are OK. If the community is not a good one, it doesn’t really matter what you have in place—that’s the lesson of our current macro community. Structure also gives your enemies points of attack. Watch how things are going in Hong Kong, any leadership or formal structure that is exposed gets targeted. Much better to lay low and quietly build a good and grey community around you.

        • Very true. I’m trying to expressly caution against and personally avoid the temptation to “systematize” everything (as a recovering libertarian I can only hope to resist every day, not escape it).

          However, I do want to be up front with the vastly Christian base for Our Thing, and particularly God > Pope > Humanity TradCaths or My Idea of Scripture > Humanity Prots about where I’m coming from. Neither the ideas that a) non-conforming citizens need their salvation, or b) that the people’s judgements are subject to their own religious “moral” veto are on the table for discussion. We won’t abide an internal cultural theocracy. The “JC” cultural theocracy America ended up with is a big part of what brought us down

          • Exile. Agreed. Never took the command of going forth and spending the word as beating people over the head with the Bible. Live and show by example. Vigilance, courage and truth. If asked, be humble in assigning from whence the source of your strength comes from. God will do the rest. That is spreading the word.

            If I pull from scripture you’ll note I never tell others what they “must do”, rather how it motivates or limits only myself.

            I like your ideas. In the notional when a where, count me in.

        • Hong Kong’s a slightly different story – what formal structure they have is synthesized in DC. It’s another color-revo ala Nuland’s Orange Putsch in Ukraine. The last thing the good grey community in HK wanted was a world-televised uprising.

          • Quite possibly true, but a bit beside my point. HK is a Petri dish from which we can observe what works, what might be working, and what doesn’t. Are the PRC pandas making the same mistakes those in charge in the West would make? Look at all those blue and green laser pointer beams flying around to confuse and confound the face recognition devices. Is it actually working? Learn how the protesters communicate and coordinate. They use traffic cones to protect themselves from tear gas by directing the plumes straight up. Communication is dispersed and non-hierarchical. So much to observe and to learn from.

          • You’re wrong. I live in Hong Kong and know the place intimately. I’m a long-term Caucasian expat. Of course many outside actors may or may not want in on what is happening here, but the underlying frustrations and anger spring from disgust with a contemptuous disconnected elite and demographic swamping of the locals by mainland fellaheen immigrants. Sound familiar?

            Life doesn’t always fit into simple cookie cutter molds.

            Pontificate about stuff you actually KNOW about.

            Don’t believe everything Vox Day and Jim emit from their posteriors.

          • Pontificate about the chances to achieve anything but dissident pain and casualties given Hong Kong’s geostrategic isolation.

            I barely read Day and don’t know who “Jim” is and don’t care. It is a grossly obvious fact that our Deep State is ham-fistedly stoking the HK unrest.

            Dead dissidents can’t win. To prevail, first survive. Being angry, justly or otherwise, is one small element of overall strategy. As for comparing the situation to that of American White dissidents on this blog, if we must strain the comparison, think of what we went through in Charlottesville and magnify the Empire and Antifa forces by a thousand-fold.

            Hong Kong’s situation is untenable. I advise anyone discontent with PRC hegemony to emigrate yesterday. The best situation they had was to toe the line of Communist sensibilities and publicity. Tiananmen showed they will not brook open rebellion. That hasn’t changed.

            “Biko” makes a great anthem but the PRC is not 1990’s South Africa. Gandalf and Rohan are not coming over any hills. Hong Kong and Taiwan need to understand this, and anyone saying otherwise is the “pontificator” you should worry about. Sometimes you have to get out of the way or get tank-manned.

            Unless the facts I don’t KNOW about involve a major HK nuclear arsenal, I’ll stand pat.

          • Not going to waste much time on you, but I will point out that Hong Kong *IS* the Shire for native Cantonese-speaking Hong Kong people who grew up here. Taiwan *is* the Shire for the people of Taiwan. Where do you propose they emigrate to? Your back garden?

            The Hong Kong people stand NO chance against the might of the PRC. They know this well. We’re talking about a population with estimated mean IQ 105-110. Not you’re average sports ball normies here. Waste of time and a digression from our good host’s agenda to go in detail into WHY the young people of Hong Kong feel so much hopeless existential despair that they would rather go out with a bang than submit or slink off. But that’s what they feel and I respect it. It’s not my fight and I certainly don’t have a dog in it. I just call it as I see it. And I know this place intimately. Again, you do not.

            Do not make the mistake of forming opinions about what is happening here through the equally warped lenses of your typical rabid progressive foreign correspondent journalists commenting in English OR your (often) hobbyhorse-obsessed guys on our side of the divide.

            And FYI in an earlier life I *was* a White South African. Who got out in time. I understand why some could not and would not. So don’t get started on that either. You’re lucky to live in a neck of the woods where your only problems are Orcs and the gardening crew.

            Peace. Out.

          • I respect your experience in the world’s tightest spots. If everyone here had a choice between the immigrants we have and Taiwanese and HK citizens, not a tough question, you know who’d be here. That said, we can’t be the Ark for every oppressed population on Earth. It’s an existential truth we have to accept to protect ourselves and our families. To the extent White “we” is even America’s “we” anymore, we have to belatedly learn to honestly say “we can’t help you.”

            Since the Second Founding, Americans were taught to believe, religiously, culturally and politically that we can and should fight “evil” and “oppression” worldwide, and that the cause we choose will prevail. Then came every war since WWII.

            War with China over Hong Kong or Taiwan would be madness for us. It will do you no empirical good, but HK has my every sympathy. Their cause seems just, and the PRC should compromise. But they won’t. And we won’t intervene in any way that would really matter.

            I hope I’m wrong and a light comes over your hill, but I just can’t see it, and Americans have no legitimate interest to justify risking the consequences of intervention.

            God be with you all.

          • I appreciate these sentiments. I agree that we as Westerners cannot and even should not help. Frankly, I’m not even for Democracy (certainly not anything beyond adult male property-holders) — just feel sympathy with an oppressed population doing what human dignity demands that they must.

            Kind of galling that the UK refused to give the population of Hong Kong residence rights after 1997 and then proceeded to take in the dregs of Bangladesh and Pakistan. Mind boggles.

  15. I am definitely dispossessed. The liberal progs of my family have no use for me, and I don’t think I have much to offer the faster, cooler kids of the new dissident right. You guys think faster and on levels I can’t even see. If I am indeed an old fossil, to be tossed aside by warring new empires on the rise… I am just peachy with it. My liver is petrified and soon all my other parts will follow suit! I will have no place in shaping what is to come, all I can do is throw what’s left of my heart and soul behind those that will. All I ask from you in return are some grenades and ammo, if you can spare them, so that I can make my last stand here. 🙂

    Oh – and what, precisely, are your plans for what comes next Z? I am just finishing up watching the last of a PBS crockumentary on the American Civil War. It’s fascinating because they can’t historically spin the fact that Lincoln was a shyster, and that without slavery… there’s not much good in having blacks around. I get the sense after watching it, that the Civil War never ended…and that the next chapter is due along any time now.

    If you ever do decide to act – best of luck to ya… and let me know if there is anything I can do to help.

    • John, way too black pill here. No one knows how exactly events will unfold and therefore what part one may play in those events. If nothing else, as Z-man points out, there may very well be a time where people get together in the face of great disruption and fear to discuss such events. You may very well be the one in that group with knowledge and understanding to consult with those people. That knowledge and understanding built upon your efforts here and elsewhere.

      I once was foreman on a lengthy empaneled grand jury (several months). One of the “fill-in” cases presented to us was that of a mother and father charged with felony child abuse. Mother and father were very poor and lower class, lived in a trailer on a small piece of land in the desert. We’d call them “trailer trash”. I believe they were itinerant workers, perhaps even illegals.

      They had a sick child—whom they brought to the local free clinic. Child was treated and the parents told to bring it back in a few days for follow up. The child was better—to the point of complete normality—in the next day or so—and the parents forgot to return to the clinic. OK, so maybe they simply said to themselves, “Why bother?”. We’ve all done that in some form or another.

      Well the free clinic would have none of that, they called the child protective services. The CPS upon visiting the family would have none of this, they took the child and called the Sheriff. The Sheriff would have none of this, they arrested the parents. The County Attorney would have none of this, they referred the case for indictment to the grand jury. The GJ would have none of this, so they began to vote (myself included) for a “true bill” on the indictment.

      One by one, we (20 jurors) smugly voted to judge the motivations and abilities and intent of these two people. That is until we reached one juror—who instead of voting up or down on the indictment—simply stated, in righteous exasperation, “Since when is it a felony to be poor and stupid?”.

      Well, you could have heard a pin drop. I was stunned. The juror that spoke then voted down the indictment, the previous juror requested to change his vote. The next juror voted down the indictment. I cancelled the vote and said let’s start over. The result as you might surmise was a no bill vote and what I hope was the end of the matter as far as the authorities were concerned.

      So what’s the point here?

      John, you might some day just be that one voice—in the right place at the right time—to make a difference.

      • Remember the story of Yertle the Turtle, who upset an entire stack of turtles simply by burping!

    • As another commentator has said, please don’t be so black pill and stop drinking too much, for heaven’s sake!

      Here’s a poem that I hope will cheer you up.

      Say not the struggle naught availeth,
      The labour and the wounds are vain,
      The enemy faints not, nor faileth,
      And as things have been they remain.

      If hopes were dupes, fears may be liars;
      It may be, in yon smoke conceal’d,
      Your comrades chase e’en now the fliers,
      And, but for you, possess the field.

      For while the tired waves, vainly breaking,
      Seem here no painful inch to gain,
      Far back, through creeks and inlets making,
      Comes silent, flooding in, the main.

      And not by eastern windows only,
      When daylight comes, comes in the light;
      In front the sun climbs slow, how slowly!
      But westward, look, the land is bright!

    • Cheer up there JS! One constant in history is the role of an unpredictable event that changes the course of history. The winners are whoever copes with the “out of the blue” event. Our “elite” can no longer cope with the First Amendment – they’re literally breaking down in the presence of mere words.

    • Get 10,000 decals made that say “It’s OK To Be White.” Put them in every public space you can without getting arrested.

      Meanwhile, if you have real property, will it to someone who is doing something.

  16. One could talk about the founding of America as having a north and a south from the very beginning.

    The Puritans of New England


    The British Company Town aka Jamestown.


    Sure there was some slavery in New England, but not much while the expansionist company towns in the South drove the practice. (a bit simplistic yes, but it fits the narrative well).

    In the end, the exiled Puritans won out.

  17. One element of willingly walking into exile is that those you leave behind can’t comprehend it. When they probe and you say “so what?, I don’t care”, it unnerves them. Those who oppose you are threatened, and those who sympathize are intrigued. I look at voluntary exile as one of the most interesting things one can do. I recommend it highly. It also adds a bit of zest to staying on the inside of things and watching how ridiculous it all is.

    • Living the name. Being a semi-rootless shapeshifter has its charms – I can see how Fellow Fellow Whites have enjoyed the role so long (sorry, I still need to get the hang of pretending I’m miserable and oppressed over it).

  18. Yes, dissidents are cast out into the wilderness but you have to think that once the human capital outside the castle walls/cathedral reaches a critical mass, and the “elite” becomes degenerate enough or just pathetic enough inside, that the guy who has been a hermit for lo these last few decades might soon be on a throne eating a turkey leg while the deposed king who looked like he was on top of the world a couple weeks ago is either missing his head or in the woods foraging for berries. We have Jared Taylor and John Derbyshire outside the wall. They have a Dadaist circus inside, with people like that Feckless Fredo Cuomo or Al Sharpton. A homeless guy wearing his underwear outside his pants has it together better than these people. Their only hope now is to flood the West with so many barbarians so quickly that everything gets destroyed, themselves included. That’s not very appetizing even to normies, no matter how many scare phrases they throw out there like “white supremacy” or whatever.

    • Maybe. But those “Dems are the real racist” CivNats have a long journey ahead of them to our side of the great divide. However, you’re right, the fact that they’re questioning the Neocon narrative is a good sign.

    • Not dead yet. There’s still a market for these things as the mere existence (not to mention cash-cow success) of Hannity and Rush prove.

      • BestGuest, I’m not sure how long Rush (who I still enjoy) and the Moron Cheerleader will last, as little Benny Shapiro (and Levin, and Prager, and…) is making conservative radio absolutely unlistenable.

        Just ranting, because Savage is still on here in San Fran. Thank the gods, thank all the gods, when that fast-talking shyster Shapiro has murdered Savage’s show everywhere else.

        (Ha! He mentioned that Kate Steinle’s killer was shooting at sea lions, first. Still the best.)

        • Well f**k me. The show is cut an hour, guess who’s on now. Sorry for the irrelevant off-topic, folks. F!#@!!!

    • Yes!!!! I was pleasantly surprised at their uniformity in rejecting Hayward’s glowing appraisal. I read that site for the more accomplished normie perspective. Commenters there began strongly rejecting the pozzed perspective that permeates some of their articles. I started to notice real rebellion there with when three of their four primaries showed up hard anti-Trumpers in 2015/16.

    • American Conservatism in a nutshell (from the review – my adds for context):

      “In perhaps his most startling confession (of flip-flopping), Will (now) thinks the Supreme Court’s 1905 ruling in Lochner v. New York was correct: government regulations cannot violate individuals’ constitutional rights to enter into contracts. His argument owes a great deal to David Bernstein’s powerful revisionist history, Rehabilitating Lochner: Defending Individual Rights Against Progressive Reform (2011).”

      Pretentious, self-aggrandized weenie-squish prig George Will was (allegedly) talked out of one of his last remaining sacred Old Right principles (acceptance of the State’s limited role to protect/provide for the public good) by a libertarian Jew.

      • We libertarians thought to defend the harmless eccentrics, the weak, but our ideas were used instead to defend the predatory strong.

        The improvers spent the last hundred years sending a job application to the institutions, and they called that “reform”… of us, not the institutions.

        Who to trust?
        The Zman’s thesis today of the excluded vs the dissident is especially relevant, I think.
        Thanks for this, and Labor Day, and every day, Zman.
        (And damm glad for the platform that has attracted Exile and Dutch, the do-ers)

        • Ha! Small ‘L’ libertarian til I die, so anti-libertarians can bite me.

          But where Z, Exile, and Dutch lead- I shall follow.

          Front line or digging latrines, I shall follow!

    • Heh. A Powerline defendent speaks:
      “In WWII we allied with totalitarian dictators and despots to defeat a worse group of dictators and despots.”

      Yeah buddy, sure. You betcha.
      Triumph of the Will, I get it.

  19. There are already people inside the institutions thinking bad thoughts. There are more people on the inside than you might think. What is most dangerous is people inside the institutions working with people outside the institutions to subvert them.

    Young men under 25 who are already in or adjacent to this thing should enlist in the armed services and then enter the bureaucracy, preferably out in the provinces, but in the heart of the thing if necessary.

    Knowing how things actually work – or fail to – is important. This includes bureaucracy. If you think there won’t be bureaucracy because ethnostate, you are probably wrong about a lot else, too.

    • I’m torn. The military offers some of the greatest benefits to someone looking to settle down and have six kids. But it’s so pozzed now.

      • True, but the skills learned and knowledge obtained will go a long way to leading the normies should the need arise and violence breaks out.

      • Check out this piece – https://www.counter-currents.com/2019/08/be-all-you-can-be/ – I’d say it’s good for a young guy to do an enlistment or two, but as a career, it’s probably on the downside. The lack of martial ethos and instruction is a void we’re going to have to fill and veterans will be the natural instructors. We’ll hear a lot of (((kvetching))) about McVeigh but martial skills are too valuable to leave aside for optics. Call it advanced hunting and survival skills or something, but don’t give them our guns and don’t stop teaching White children how to survive and defend themselves.

        Look up South Africa’s Suidlanders on this as well – you’ll have to wade through pages of (((concern))) trolling poz from CNN et al, sorry, pressed for time or I’d give you a good link.

  20. 1. Build our own platforms, institutions, and organizations.

    2. Discredit the existing ones.

    3. Reduce the amount of money you spend on entities that hate you.

    4. I know it is fantasy for now, but can you imagine what would happen if white men went on strike for a week? Everything would shut down.

    • You write, ” I know it is fantasy for now …” But remember, Gillette lost billions in a financial quarter, largely because they sassed me and my brothers.

      Your Item 3 can be remarkably powerful.

    • I have a list of a-hole corporations I will not do business with. You should, too. Sometimes while shopping I’ll do without if the only thing available is something from a banned corporation. One thing you should do right now is avoid franchise restaurants. A few are acceptable, most are PC cowards.

  21. During most of Earth’s history, living things adapted to the local environment in which they evolved, and only changed when the environment changed. Humans are unique in the ability to significantly alter their environment (think clothes and houses), and thus can dramatically alter their evolutionary path at will. It doesn’t stop there. We now have altered the “mechanism” of evolution and it’s fundamental drivers of fitness selection. Ask yourself, what traits does our current social environment select for? What changes do you see in modern men and women?

    • The question I always ask is why, given that the American experiment wasn’t copyrighted, and that many countries have adopted our Constitution and Laws in whole or in part, hasn’t there been one single government entity that can emulate the USA. (I don’t really. I live in the US. Just this week the People’s Republic of Cambridge cancelled the Caribbean festival due to the shootings in all the other Caribbean Festivals.)

    • Well Tom, the phenotype selected for in men might be termed uncharitably as “pussies”. But really, it’s the genotype I’m immediately worried about. World average IQ is headed down, except in some African countries where nutritional increases—also known as the Flynn Effect—still masks the general IQ decline found everywhere else in the developed world—but heck at a typical measure of 70, how high do you expect African IQ to grow?

      Given our influx of third word immigrants, with close to a point a decade genotype decline in IQ in the existing population, and in 50 years we are headed for an average population IQ of 90.

      There are no functioning democracies, or for that matter 1st world societies, with sub 90 population IQ’s. The IQ problem described above also is reflected in health and anti-social behavior indices. We are headed stupider, more unhealthy, and antisocial society.

      Apologies for this black pill.

      • The culture’s IQ decline is not your IQ decline or that of the people you choose to be around. Look at it as an opportunity for you and yours to more easily prevail, using your HBD-given smarts.

        • Dutch, correct. That’s not my children’s or grandchildren’s IQ…but they will be part of a declining society which contain a smaller and smaller proportion of Whites and as such can be expected to suffer when there are not enough folk to fill the required “smart fraction” necessary to keep this “shit show” of a country running. For those not familiar with this concept, it simply refers to the numbers of smart folk required to be engineers, doctors, scientists, etc. out of the 400-500M people expected to be living in the US in the next 50 years.

          But I hear ya. My progeny will most likely survive and thrive if left to their own devices.

      • A small side note-
        Thanks Compsci for explaining “Flynn effect”, as I get lost in insider terms like “Dunning-Kruger”?, “Flynn effect”, etc.

        Please speak plainly, folks.
        Showing how smart one is, is a distraction.

        The ideas are what is important, or we’ll end up sounding like self-referential academics pissing away in a wokeness contest.

        As the Zman noted yesterday, us worried, frazzled 60 year-olds with an 80 hour work week can’t chase down every thread, thanks.

  22. Dear Benny
    We can still “cut the mustard” , our team has not played yet.
    We are the New England Patriots watching from the stands at this point.
    What we see on the field is a bunch of feminists, cucky white men, and Jews playing the game.
    You ain’t played us yet my friend.
    We play to win.

    • No we don’t. The other side wants power at all cost. They will do anything to get it including murdering your children and their beds. Without the single-minded focus on power, which I doubt anyone in this thread has because only truely wretched people have that as their primary motivation, we lose. We would lose consistently throughout history if it weren’t for thucydides imponderables or Rumsfelds unknown unknowns. So keep your head down and keep your soul in order because they will come. Be ready.

      • The panopticon and its data collection on each of us is probably so much greater and granular than anyone is letting on. But take a minute and think about how data works, versus boots on the ground. All it takes is for the data to be a bit off, relative to the real world, for you to be invisible to the panopticon. Plan accordingly. If the GPS says you are “there”, and you are fifty feet away and undetected in the database, you are a ghost to them. That’s the difference between dataspace and meatspace.

      • “Without the single-minded focus on power, which I doubt anyone in this thread has because only truly wretched people have that as their primary motivation, we lose.”

        Don’t sell those of us who lean Nietzschean short. We’re trying, lol.

        I remember, years ago, reading historian Warren Carroll’s little book on the Spanish Civil War, ‘The Last Crusade’. Carroll was a serious Catholic, but not a traditionalist. I remember him admitting to the importance the Falangists played in the victory of the Right in the Spanish Civil War. They had provided much hard, ruthless, and daring hitting, and were central in paving the way, he admitted. Too bad they were later sidelined, maybe Francoism would not have gone out with a whimper.

        I got a hold of Bill Hopkins’ quite good little novel ‘The Divine and the Decay’ (reprinted as ‘The Leap’ later) from the library several years ago. That book has certainly stuck with me. Jonathan Bowden, a thoroughgoing Nietzschean himself, gives an excellent summary/extrapolation of the protagonist, named Plowart, here:

        “Plowart is a man obsessed by the nature of his own destiny, irrespective of all other things such as human warmth and comfort (for example). He is a perfect paradigm of the dictatorial urge (the “Will to Power”).”

        “For he is a man who believes—in a purely Nietzschean sense—that the “Will to Power” is the basis of all existence (whether civil or otherwise) and that human beings only learn anything through their ability to transgress thresholds of pain. In many respects Plowart appears in this theoretical novel to be a mediaeval figure, almost a mystic, a man who wishes to go beyond what presently exists: but always with a totally different morality to that of liberal-humanism (quiescent or otherwise).”

        “…it is a “sadic” faith (a doctrine beyond liberal-humanist and Christian morality) which sees war as the crucible of human meaning: and conflict/death as a state of “liberation” in relation to preconceived notions of being.”

        The book’s ending is really something (I think), and very much relevant to our discussion here, but I’m not going to ruin it for people. It might be difficult to appreciate without having read the whole book, in any case.

        While I’m on the subject of Jonathan Bowden (I highly, highly recommend his many recorded intellectual speeches available online):

        “If you want to call it God, the divine, the energy in all things, the force that created the universe, nature, whatever you call it, I believe it’s fury not love.”

        “Nietzsche’s philosophy isn’t for everybody. It’s too harsh and too forbidding for many people. But it is a way of thinking which is reflexive and absolute. It’s a way of thinking which is primordial and extraordinarily Western. It’s a way of thinking that enables people to be religious, in the sense of the sacredness of life, but also to be open to fact, and to evidence, and to science. It combines those things that lead to glory. And express themselves through tenderness and ferocity.

        “I urge all white people in this era to look into the mirror and to ask themselves, “What do you know about what you are?” And if you don’t know enough, put your hand on that mirror, and move towards greater knowledge of what you can become.

        “We’re all going to die. Make use of that time which remains.

        “Greatness is in the mind and in the fist. The glory of our tribe is not behind us. We can be great again. But the first thing that we have to do is to say, “I walk towards the tunnel, and I’m on my own, and I’m not afraid. And I have no regrets.””

        “The current estimation is very much that civilization and barbarism are mutually exclusive, but I believe that you cannot have the one without the other.”

        “…love is voltaic, unpronounced and beyond the remit of good and evil.”

        “I am not preaching anti-intellectuality, but extolling the licentiousness and chthonian violence of re-integration. The affliction which Indo-Europeans suffer from is entirely mental and subjective; they are chronically afraid of their own shadow in Jungian terms. If the civilization which their ancestors created has any future at all then they must overcome their resistance to barbarism; they must o’erleap it on the altar of high culture.”

        “Truthfully, in this age those with intellect have no courage and those with some modicum of physical courage have no intellect. If things are to alter during the next fifty years then we must re-embrace Byron’s ideal: the cultured thug.”

        • I want to clarify that the central character of Bill Hopkins’ novel ‘The Divine and the Decay’, Plowart, is not simply self-absorbed. He wants to assume leadership of Britain in order to take its people to greater heights, to rejuvenate and re-energize them to creative achievement, to self-overcoming. I’m reminded of the phrase Jack Donovan likes to repeat, “start the world.”

    • Yes. It’s terribly important that those who are dissidents, or seeking to be dissidents, have a decent idea of what their ground is, and what it isn’t. Otherwise you don’t know where you are sleeping the next night.

  23. Say what you will about Vox Day (and I’ve said some things), but he’s been pushing this exact logic and, much more importantly, creating alternatives for the past decade or so. Create your own community and create your own institutions, however small or large, to serve that community.

    A lot of us here would probably feel more comfortable having a beer with Steve Sailer than Vox Day, but, if we’re being honest, Vox is the dissident while Sailer seems to have fallen into the roll of dispossessed.

    Steve started as a dissident, bravely writing a blog instead of bowing down to the cuck’s at National Review, and we all owe him a huge thanks and our respect (and our money, which I send him every month). But he refuses to move past standing outside the old institutions yelling pithy criticisms. He can’t seem to give them up and move on. What’s more, he loves it when the other side acknowledges him with their own angry replies to his barbs. They still define him in his mind.

    I think the world of Sailer – and believe that he remains hugely useful in ferrying people to our side of the great divide – but I doubt that he’ll ever live on our side and become a dissident. He can’t give up the old world.

    • Agree on both. Vox would likely annoy me to death in person but I respect his usefulness, for all his divisive “16 points” drama. Sailer to me is one of Z’s paleocons, generationally unable to break with sacred Process and muh Rule of Law and thus safely pigeonholed by Big Other into the “harmless crank” role of an Intellectual Dark Web safety valve for steam that otherwise drives all trains to DisRight Station.

      • Sailer feels like he’s always trying to convince David Brooks to tell his fellow Jews to lay off us white gentiles because it’s both better for the country and better for the Jews.

        What Sailer doesn’t seem to get is 1) it’s been 20 years and that hasn’t worked yet so it’s probably never going to work and 2) Brooks and his generation of Jews and their WASP sidekicks are quickly getting replaced by people who don’t believe in listening to or debating the white devil.

        Sailer and his commentators are always trying to figure why so and so is saying this or doing this rather illogical or unscientific or flat out stupid thing. To thoughtful, numerate people like Sailer, it just doesn’t make sense.

        Vox figured it out long ago: They hate you and want you dead. Once you understand that, everything makes sense and falls into place. But Sailer and his crew just can’t accept that because accepting that means everything is over, that the time for debate is over.

    • With some years reading Vox Day’s blog, I’ve concluded he is neither dissident nor disaffected. He’s a fifth columnist who wants to see it all burn, then be the last man standing as he says, “See, I was right.”

      • Maybe, but he’s the only one that I’ve seen actually building alternative platforms and entertainment (which all communities need). He’s getting it done in the real world, which can’t be denied.

        In a lot of ways, the Z-Crew is around a decade or so behind him. I think that a lot of us have some issues with Vox and wouldn’t want to be a part of his particular community, but you can’t deny what he’s done and is doing. Again, I’m a Sailer guy in a lot of ways, but Sailer is just snickering at the bully behind his back, while Vox is taking him on.

  24. Before we attack Tiny Duck for his gloatpost, let’s step back a moment and remember a few things:

    1) These are the words of someone who is winning and knows it

    2) We should take them at their word for what they plan to do to us when their victory is final.

    We aren’t going to beat them; the only way they lose is when they collapse on their own. We aren’t going to survive by running off into the countryside where they will hunt us down, Ruby Ridge style.

    Shelter in place. Blend in. No one talks about Fight Club. Pinochet can’t come until Allende does first.

    • We can do both. There are plenty of shitlords out here in the countryside who aren’t being “hunted down,” in large part because this lifestyle teaches you how to shelter in place, blend in and wait for better conditions. We even have internet out here. Shitposting from the side of a mountain right now.

    • Exactly.

      This is what they think, and what the end result will be.

      Don’t be afraid to let people know this. Most whites are scared to even consider this eventuality. These kinds of thoughts can be a huge redpill to whites, when we point out that, yeah actually all the 3rd worlders do hate you and want you dead.

      Regardless of “muh colonialism”. Do you want to live, or do you want to die? Pretty easy choice (for me, at least).

  25. The problems is that the “dissidents” you are talking about are whiners to whom equality and fairness seems like oppression.

    The truth is that white “men” just cannot cut the mustard anymore. Witness the below replacement level birthrates among white-which is due to a dearth of attractive white males.

    Also consider how many “men” on sites like this are childless and never married. Pathetic.

    Also, Africa is the future whether you like it or not. Lagos on the Chesapeake you say mockingly? Well, reap the wind I say.

    I see nothing wrong with Africans returning the favour of settling in the west in the tens of millions if not hundreds of millions! None one in the west ever asked any African their permission to settle and colonise the continent. Do you really expect any tears for your “culture” or “way of life” from 4 billion Africans with even the slightest modicum of historical knowledge to vaguely care? Dread it. Run from it. Cry about. They are coming! There is not a damn thing you can do about it. Europe is out of friends. That ended with Hitler. The only people you have to blame are the ones in your mirrors! The rest of the world has moved on.

    African women still know how to be wives and children respect their elders, most Africans don’t care what you whites think. And, critiques of the success of Nigerians in the US, point out that that they tend to arrive from Nigeria highly skilled. Maybe the west need to pay reparations for the trillions stolen during colonialism. The figures from Zambia alone are sickening.

    The reason China and African countries are getting along well is that the Africans have not forgotten that the Germans, Belgians , Dutch , French ,and British used to kill the Africans like wild dogs.The Chinese go to Africa to do mutually beneficial business, not to colonize and rub their land.

    Looks like you guys are going to be replaced! Good luck with your “dissidence” and dispossession!

    • This was mildly interesting… lots of “down votes’… but this site’s readers are known for down-voting truth. Yeah, you guys are weenies. The future is positively brown, and no one can do a thing about it. And yeah, you “Big, Bad Dissenters” are no more dissenting than a classroom of 12 year old girls… hate to inform you but oh well…

    • Two points stand out to me in your comment. First, you believe that whites have a uniquely evil history and second, that you regard diversity and immigration as a punishment that whites deserve.

      Discussion is not going to solve the conflict between your group and mine.

  26. One very unusual aspect of exclusion is that those who are excluded that would naturally be leaders of a society are in the best position to reform it. I believe it was Terrence McKenna who said that the cost of sanity in such a society is a certain degree of alienation.

    Inside society you have Lilliputians and Brobdingnabians, and they place their hope in the advancement on the Laputans, who are so busy extracting sunbeams from cucumbers that they haven’t realized their wives left them long ago. On the fringe, the most black pilled are the houyhnhnms who debate if it is worth to exterminate the Yahoos. Outside of all of this and we can see the travels of Lemuel Gulliver for what they are: society decay and a creeping insanity. This is only possible by virtue of alienation, and exclusion is the mechanism for most of us that allows these insights to happen.

  27. What are the final aims of a right leaning dissident movement? The next stage of American rule is going to be some form of dictatorial or totalitarian despotism. We are easing into that now. Major upheavals not foreseen could maybe make room for some movement that is ready to assert itself. It just won’t have the support of the masses even those that are capable of thinking politically.

    Those brown hordes are not coming across in great numbers for nothing. There is a use for them, as we know.

    • To raise the flag of destiny as black as the wing of a raven. Change it not nor raise another until we have a folkish haven.

      When we have a land of our own, then on that holy ground, we’ll plant our flag of raven black upon a sacred mound.

    • The final aim is to live apart from whatever the Empire becomes. We don’t need the support of their masses, we need the support of our masses. For those already resigned to “Empire wins, too many Browns” there’s no point in asking questions or commenting. We’re not going to be able to war with them, we’re not going to be able to out-vote them. The only choice is a peaceful, gradual separation.

  28. And the Puritans exacted their revenge when the English Civil War exploded. Swarms of them left New England for Old England to fill the ranks of Cromwell’s New Model Army. When their theocratic republic failed, they made sure to try again in America in the 1860s to expiate the sins of the Cavaliers descendants they so despised.

    • I thought they all left England, after Cromwell died? Over to Holland to stock up on porn, then straight to Mass.

  29. So where do we build our new Dissident Community that evolves independently, a la Plymouth Plantation?

    Mars? The moons of Saturn?

    • Don’t be too literal. Simply meeting for drinks with fellow dissidents is enough to form a community. Logical communities are just as real as physical ones.

    • In your town, amongst your workers or friends, anywhere. We’re not going to carve Whiteopia out of the wilderness. We’re going to carve it our of the existing society, piece by piece. We aren’t settlers. We’re dissidents.

    • People always take 5PT activism to mean Ruby Ridge, publicly-announced secessionism, civil war and Glenn Beck Survival Bunkers (TM). Rethink that. There are “no-go” zones in the middle of the biggest cities and capitals of every Western nation. There are vast swathes of the Southwest where ICE has posted notices saying their writ no longer runs, as Steyn put it in After America. SoCal’s government-“policed” national forests have pot plantations run by Mexican gangs. There are small towns all over America where the entire system is run according to the corrupt schemes of a few local families.

      Those of us who are “extremely online” get fooled by the ease with which Big Other can wreck your virtual world. That’s due to bottlenecks that don’t exist in real life. With apologies to Caligula, playing choke-a-mole is a lot easier when Faceberg, Google and Twitter provide you with single necks to choke. In meat-space, it’s a lot harder to lay hands on every neck.

      • Exile,

        I understand you to mean meat space in the sense of our physically adjacent communities. If wrong please correct me. If so I agree that is the place to start (Elks and fraternal clubs, select churches, bars, masters sports teams etc.)

        My only problem is it seems almost impossible to find individuals as far along in dissonance as myself, or they are too wary to reveal themselves. In that note I dont mind being the coaxing pathfinder for others, but I do know I will miss the level of sophistication, knowledge and vision of the online dissident groups like those I’ve discovered here.

        I know Lineman was pushing for this community to enter meat space. I understand his desire and also ken why many are hesitant. Perhaps the answer with the wicked forces backed by the G, arrayed against us, is to attend some of the seminars mentioned by Zman.


        • Seminars are a good way in that the security is handled by the organizers. We need to figure out ways to network that aren’t solely internet-based, or at least on different platforms. It’s easy to phish or spoof communications between anons who know each other only by handles, so some meat-space “undigitized” communication is handy to provide verification and wave-off signals, etc…

          I’ve been reading around the edges of that stuff lately, give me a few days to dig in and I’ll try to have some useful info. It’s a slow process because everyone needs to be educated in some basic security awareness first. I have a few sources I haven’t read yet – will knock them out this week.

          • @exile – “It’s easy to phish or spoof communications between anons who know each other only by handles…”

            So you gotta have everything done the Robert Ludlum way. ‘Kay. Crypto, call signs, pre-arranged identification signals, and post link-up identification verification protocols have been around for awhile, bro; since people have been meeting in dark recesses to exchange secrets, in fact.

            Our side is notoriously stupid with protecting their identity in this sort of way, but there is a bright side – the opposition isn’t any better.

          • I just realized I have inadvertently exhibited the theme of Zman’s post today. Dissident Versus Dispossessed. I whine about losing my seat the table with society and the death of muh Constitution… instead of letting it go and becoming something new. Time to evolve.

          • Sean,

            You are right about us being stupid with identity etc. We dont discuss anything illegal here. For myself I’ve been operating under the old subconscious belief in muh Constitution. Maybe others here too. Its childishly endearing but unfortunately we dont get to control what the migrating lines of the law will do.

            In the years to come we must become wiser and more vigilant. Completely disconnect from the belief the Constitution reflects our inate rights anymore.

            I guess the Progs will get their “Living Document” eventually. They could have kept it civil and fought us argument for argument. Nope. Dox, disemploy, violence and silencing their political opponents.

            What a world they have wrought, and I don’t think they realize the peril of it yet.

  30. Part of being a dissident for me is that I have no interest in wining over the existing institutions as they are utterly corrupt and irredeemable. Their only purpose at this point is as an example of what to avoid replicating in the future.

  31. it is possible to have have always been a dissident of the right. The dissident communities, whatever they may be are real. Like minded individuals.

    “If that chick don’t want to know forget her.”

    Thin Lizzie circa 1976

Comments are closed.