The Break Up

Not so long ago, societal collapse was a big topic of conversation among critics of the current world order. Usually it was centered on economics, as the financial system has become so complex that no one can explain it. The run-up to the mortgage crisis had lots of people promoting economic collapse theories. A decade earlier, the Y2K panic ushered in theories of technological collapse. Of course, the zombie apocalypse movies and TV shows are a regular part of the pop media rotation.

Societal collapse, however, is probably not in the cards. The best known treatment of the issue is by Joseph Tainter. In Collapse of Complex Societies, Tainter makes the point that collapse in the modern age is unlikely, as all complex societies are dependent on one another. Therefore, when one society begins to fail, the rest will provide support to prevent the rapid disintegration of the failing society. In other words, the modern age is a network of reciprocal relationships between complex societies.

In the case of America, the rest of the world needs America in order to remain intact, so a crisis in America will be met with a response from Europe, Asia and even South America. The internal response to crisis will include global support for repairing the internal problems of America. This network of relationships may not arrest the decline, but it will prevent collapse. The rest of the complex societies will ease America into the autumn of its existence, thus buying themselves time to adjust.

An alternative to this analysis comes from John Michael Greer. He wrote a paper on what he termed catabolic collapse. The general theory is that all human societies create complex institutions and social structures that require maintenance. Over time, the cost of maintaining them begins to exceed capacity. The solution is a deliberate downsizing where these complex systems are abandoned in order to focus resources on the core functions of society. Complex societies don’t collapse. They downsize.

Greer’s idea is a variation of the Tainter theory, in that it focuses on the material aspects of society. In the Tainter view, collapse is like bankruptcy that ends in a liquidation of the society. Greer’s view is a bankruptcy that leads to a reorganization of society going through bankruptcy, so it can reemerge simpler and more viable. In reality, both ideas are working from the same assumption. That is, human societies grow inefficient over time and that inefficiency eventually reaches a tipping point.

One issue that is a problem when discussing these theories of societal collapse is we tend to think of collapse as something that happens relatively quickly. That is, it happens not just in our lifetime, but overnight. One day things are going along just fine and the next day the wheels are coming off the cart. It is the image of Rome at its peak compared to the image of hairy barbarians scaling the walls. We naturally want to think of collapse as the sudden, unexpected death of society.

Collapse is most likely experienced in fits and starts, with those fits and starts spanning lifetimes. For example, the men who founded the American empire in the early 20th century passed out of this world seeing their creation in the throes of the cultural revolution of the 60’s and 70’s. The so-called greatest generation that inherited the empire from the founders, were re-engineering American society so their rotten kids would stop rioting in the street and burning the college campus.

The generation that founded the empire probably thought it was headed for collapse, but by that point they were too old to care. It did not collapse. American society stabilized, regained its footing and started to recover in the 1980’s and 1990’s, with the great economic and technological boom. Ironically, the baby boomers are experiencing what their grandparents experienced as they head for the void. They are seeing what appears to be the collapse of American society in a spasm of multicultural rage.

A half century ago, California was the epicenter of the cultural revolution that threatened to collapse society. It is the test bed for the multicultural favela the rage heads in the ruling class have planned for the nation. Today, they have rolling blackouts in a third world effort to keep from setting the state on fire. Their efforts to manage air pollution, a great crusade in the 1860’s and 1970’s, is beginning to fail. Their pension system is effectively bankrupt, just waiting to collapse in the next decade.

In other words, the spasm of decline and near collapse of a half century ago was part of a cycle of decline. This crisis will probably be followed by some correction, where things settle for a while, but never return to the prior normal. Just as the 1980’s never reached the level of social accomplishment of the post-war years, the next period of tranquility will fall far short of the 1980’s and 1990’s. It will simply be an interregnum between one period of crisis and the next, another step down the ladder of collapse.

At some point, the old social capital of the prior greatness is exhausted. The Romans were a spent people for over century before the collapse. In fact, they were arguably done in the third century. The real question about the late Roman Empire is how it managed to stagger on for so long. That may be where we are now in present day America. The next step down the ladder of decline may be so unstable that the weight of past error crashed society through to the bottom.

The case for this theory of collapse is the rapidly shrinking white middle-class. It’s not just shrinking as an economic institution, but as a cultural one. The dominant culture today is one that celebrates degeneracy and barbarism. Bourgeois culture remains, but unlike the 1980’s, it is not front and center, offering a stabilizing point to arrest the cultural turmoil of the day. The antidote to what’s happening today is not a man in a sundress demanding the rest of us pretend he is a girl.

In addition to the shrinking influence of bourgeois white culture, there is the growing sense that what’s left of America is not worth saving. Everyday, more and more white people come to the conclusion that the people they see in politics, the media and popular culture are incompatible with the world they want for themselves and their decedents. That old bourgeois white culture is looking at America like the family exhausted by an alcoholic relative. It’s time to cut our losses.

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270 thoughts on “The Break Up

  1. “Collapse of Complex Societies” was written about 30 years ago. In historical terms, that might as well have been yesterday, but in technological terms in 2019, it’s ancient history. I posit that what took the Roman Empire 300 years to do (collapse), the US empire will do in 30. When that 30-year period started is anyone’s guess, but I believe we’re well into it. The US empire was propped up for longer than it otherwise would have been by having the world’s reserve currency and control of the petro-dollar. These two factors allowed the US to create as much money as it wanted in order to project economic, political, and military power at will throughout the planet. As China, rich in technological prowess and possessing an intelligent populace, breaks free of the global authority of the US, and other countries follow, the US empire will come to a tipping point. We will downsize, but that downsizing will be abrupt and drastic. Degeneracy and barbarism will increase while the bourgeois culture will regroup into geographical enclaves of manageable sizes.

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  3. AG Barr clarifies the political conflict.
    PJ media

    “ Atty General Bill Barr enunciated the anti-liberal manifesto at a speech before the Federalist Society. Barr offers an ideological explanation for the rebellion against the establishment in a way Trump, being Trump, never could. As such it is the first genuinely post-Trump political development in conservative ranks. The Barr declaration means the attempt to isolate the causes of the 2016 rebellion to one man has decisively failed. It is now a cause of it’s own, bigger than Trump.“

  4. >The dominant culture today is one that celebrates degeneracy and barbarism.

    And the accompanying ass twerk is like a death rattle!

  5. With this overcrowding of people, dependency on ” just-in-time delivery ” and the growing animosity towards one another it’s not hard to see why people might predict a collapse.

    Along with the Deep state jamming these ridiculous laws down our throats they seem to be encouraging the whole thing towards a boiling point.

    Most likely coming in after the collapse like saviors and installing even a more Draconian state. Will be interesting to see what the Brown horde does. Will they continue to be obedient or turn on their Puppet Masters ?

    • Nick is in a difficult position because his defenses rest upon semantics.

      He is charged with being racist and anti-semitic. His channel shows that he believes in racial differences and doubts the logistics of the holocaust. To most people, these beliefs make you a racist and and an anti-semitite.

      Certainly, you can believe in racial differences and not hate non-whites and you can doubt the holocaust without hating j3ws. But others have tried and failed with this tactic before.

      He also pivoted to making Christianity his foundation. I am not hopeful that this pivot will succeed.

      • Are Fuentes and Co. actually converting anybody, or are they only providing giggles for themselves and those who already agree with them?

  6. I disagree. Sophisticated and integrated things go very fast and with loud bang. Soviet Union was complex centralized society and when one part of this complex quit then it switched off all other society mechanisms as well. Independence and decentralization is the key survival mechanism. Swamp knows this well and for example EU is built especially very integrated. Nobody dares to crash this because damage and chaos is biblical and may last for decades. So here we are like Titanic passengers. EU is too big to save and there is nowhere to run. We just keep printing money and nobody knows what to do.

  7. Let’s see how the malignant dwarf handles this piece from Taki

    Josh Hammer is the extremely gay-looking Editor-at-Large of the Daily Wire, a site established by five-foot-tall surly Zionist Ben Shapiro. Like Shapiro, he has no problem talking about ethnostates and his “people” so long as they are Jewish. Also like Shapiro, he condemns the idea that white people so much as deserve a collective identity, much less their own ethnostate.

    Last Tuesday, Hammer tweeted the following statement:

    Jew-hatred is inherent in the European DNA.

    Ooh, let’s unpack that big fat matzo ball right there.

    Not only does it imply that the impenitent Ziocon Hammer believes that race has a biological component—race realism is verboten in both major American political parties—it also implies he believes that anti-Semitism flows naturally throughout European blood. This is a shockingly racist, horrific, problematic, and unacceptable comment.

    First off, what kind of last name is “Hammer”? Aren’t those people forbidden from eating ham? Something stinks about this, and it stinks bad. We have no other choice but to conclude that this “Josh Hammer” guy is actually an Aryan agent planted by Donald Trump’s anti-Semitic Deep State to make Our Greatest Ally look bad.

  8. I tend to think that we are at the beginning phase (3-5years) of lone wolf snuff-jobs of propaganda whores (anyone involved in corporate media), talmudic-usurist-jewish-bolshevik lawyers/judges/politicians + their white-liberal-goyim dupes, fanatical LEOS/FLEAS and third/turd world parasites — I know – “it can’t happen here and if it could – it’s too soon…” — willing to bet your life on it?
    I was planning/hoping on enjoying my late 60’s and 70’s: the salad days (I’m in my mid 50’s and in pretty good shape) in somewhat relative “comfort” (more or less “leave me the f-ck alone – my sh-t’s paid for: debt-free) but I know in my bones that ain’t gonna happen — I have my built -in trip wire that when triggered I will begin “doing-what-has-to-be-done” without hesitation, malice or enjoyment — I do not care what happens to me after that – F–CK ALL
    there is no more justice (maybe there never was) – you are on your own — as L. Spooner said: I didn’t sign no stinkin’ constitution/contract
    I only see balkinization and/or separation or eventual Mad Max devolution

  9. Z has always been a thought provoking read but his posts have shown a more mature outlook lately. He is no longer touting the revolution. In all fairness though he was never deranged about it like Vox Day. Z is even walking back some of the boomer hate.

    Another thing that will make the collapse a little slower than most of the Dissident Right would prefer is that the tribe will make sure that the collapse doesn’t get in the way of their cementing their power and making money.

    However Z is right that many whites, me including, think the whole mess is so much a freak show now that it isn’t worth saving even if that was possible, which it isn’t. Whites are already starting to just go through the motions. You can already see that in studies of engagement at work. The most recent one I have from about 10 years ago found 75 percent of the population was no longer engaged in their work. So we are down to at max 25 percent trying to do the best job possible. I imagine that is a lot lower now.

  10. There is a counter to collapse.
    Take it back ALL OF IT.
    The Bolivians did it, so can we.
    The Left is in a terrible tizzy about all this BTW.


    “Although the story has yet to gain much traction in the American press, a far-right Christo-fascist group assumed power in Bolivia last week, exiling socialist President Evo Morales, the first indigenous leader of a nation whose inhabitants are two-thirds indigenous.
    Multi-millionaire populist leader Luis Fernando Camacho invaded the presidential palace only hours after Morales fled to Mexico. With a Bible in one hand, he vowed that the natives’ indigenous religion was no longer welcome in Bolivia’s halls of power: “[I will] return God to the burned palace…Pachamama [a Bolivian earth-mother goddess] will never return to the palace. Bolivia belongs to Christ.”
    In the ensuing days, opposition senator Jeanine Áñez—another Christo-Fascist who says the indigenous masses have no place in Bolivia’s government—became the nation’s interim president. Back in 2014, Áñez tweeted:
    I dream of a #Bolivia free of indigenous satanic rites, the city is not for ‘Indians,’ they better go to the highlands…
    Spanish Christians crushed the great Incan empire 500 years ago but apparently they didn’t finish the job, so they’re back in Crush Mode again. “

  11. “An alternative to this analysis comes from John Michael Greer. He wrote a paper on what he termed catabolic collapse. The general theory is that all human societies create complex institutions and social structures that require maintenance. Over time, the cost of maintaining them begins to exceed capacity. ****The solution is a deliberate downsizing where these complex systems are abandoned in order to focus resources on the core functions of society***. Complex societies don’t collapse. They downsize.”

    What we’re actually seeing is the opposite of this. Those useful ‘core functions’ of society are being sacrificed to prop up the useless peripheral parts of it.

  12. The “collapse of Rome” – the decline from its zenith under Marcus Aurelius to the nadir under Gregory III took six centuries.

    • Don’t forget that the east survived, shrinking and being overrun in one place or another, for nearly another thousand years.

  13. The speed of these things depends on the speed of information. Look at the time between changes- -the fall of the Romans to the Magna Carta, to the constitution, to today’s voluntaryist movement. When things go faster- – quill and parchment to printed word to the internet, change is happening exponentially faster.

    While I believe collapse won’t happen the way many think, such changes will also happen faster. We exceeded the last 5,000 years of technological change in the last 200, and social change will match.

  14. Good thinking and analysis, Zman! “They downsize.” Do our Ruling Overlord also downsize the number of people?! Very concerning as this is part of the process and direction of Agenda 21.

    Here in the West, there are more and more government land grabs. See Range Magazine for updates. When I lived in Great Smokey Valley center of Nevada, the area briefly dodged a bullet from one of two land grabs. The Yucca Mountaun nuclear waste repository plan is on hold but no doubt will come back to life. What isn’t said is a large “border” of land will be taken by eminent domain, including privately owned ranch land, for a large corridor grabbed and off limits to locals from Beowawe, Nevada, right through my former home. Yucca Mountain was halted due to discovery of active faults near the repository.

    “DOE is proposing to transport 70,000 metric tons of high level radioactive waste and spent fuel from nuclear power plants and defense facilities to Yucca Mountain, in Nye County. The EIS looks at three modes of transportation for the 24 year shipping campaign – legal weight truck, rail, or rail to heavy haul truck.

    One rail line under consideration, known as the “Carlin route” would be built from Beowawe southwest through Crescent Valley, and into Grass Valley. South of Highway 50, the EIS proposes that the rail line be built either through Big Smoky Valley or Monitor Valley. The rail line would terminate at Yucca Mountain.”

    The Southern Nevada Water Authority aka Las Vegas, who holds all the political power in Nevada, wants to build a 250 mile pipeline from Northern and Eastern Nevada, bringing water from aquifers and springs lining valleys, ultimately drying up those ranching areas. Also the pipeline will take a land corridor by eminent domain, and that gobbles up ranch lands. Briefly halted and poised to come alive again. “When asked on Wednesday if the pipeline is dead, the water authority’s general manager, John Entsminger, responded “no” and said elements of the ruling could be seen as good for the water provider.”

    As of November 2019, the water fight continues in eastern Nevada and western Utah with an LDS Church owned ranch to lose water in the fight. Interesting to see a scrap developing between Las Vegas Water and the LDS Church, and who will win. My money is on Las Vegas swilling down the water.

    Ultimately, Agenda 21, brought to life by the UN Rio Summit 1992, wants to turn large areas of the country into The King’s Park, with no access to deplorable peoples and open to the elites to ride through and stay at an upscale spa hotel. That little Berkeley Professor puke that got caught saying he hates normal people in flyover country wants Normies herded into big cities and high density housing. The Overlords are really looking forward to a culling of the deplorable herd.

  15. Show-pony California gets all the publicity but plucky gelding Illinois has an inside track to beat us to the bottom in the Progressive race to Lean Forward over the cliff’s edge – and track conditions are wet & slick.

    One of the reasons I’m an ambassador for the Hank Williams, Jr. lifestyle* is that our big cities are where Greer’s style of collapse is most likely**. Detroit is our most advanced example – arguably the most prosperous and productive city on Earth in the 1940’s-1950’s, now a poxy patchwork quilt of gated castles garrisoned by private armies, surrounded by gubmint serfs and roving bands of down-to-get-high-waymen.

    Chicago, LA and their orbiting fiefdoms will soon follow. Democracy may see no difference between R-selected and K-selected voters, but the Fates and Furies do.

    As our New Rome falls, the ACELA corridor will likely be our Constantinople, with NYC as the Tribe’s de facto Third Temple and Washington as their Janissary garrison and bureaucracy.

    Like the Byzantines, the Talmudic Empire may hold the capital and even some crumbling cities for a long time to come, but the provinces will soon enjoy the freedom of Imperial neglect and impoverishment. It took Constantinople 1000 more years than Rome to fall, but for most of that time it was a pretend empire unable to exert real hegemony beyond the Turkish Straits.

    On the ground if not on paper, the men of the West controlled their own destiny 1000 years before their pretend “Emperors” were forced to admit their collapse. New tribes and nations we would later call the English, French and Germans had the mastery long before they even had a name.

    ** thx to Borzoi for publicizing his work at TRS, American Sun & I’d also recommend Dmitri Orlov on this – reading his “Five Stages of Collapse” this week. (

  16. Very good analysis. We get up and turn on the news to see the clown show staring at us and assume we are nearing the end. But as Winston Churchill said it may only be the “end of the beginning”
    Of course little did Churchill realize his British Empire was also going to end with the German government.
    Look at a stock on Wall Street on its way down in decline It’s usually not straight down but down then up a little then down some more, never returning to previous heights.
    The Z is probably right.

  17. “That old bourgeois white culture is looking at America like the family exhausted by an alcoholic relative. It’s time to cut our losses.”

    What the hell does ‘cut our losses’ mean? I truly want to know. Anyone? Anyone?

    • I think it means stop voting for the lesser evil. Let the shock hit the GOPe speed-limit-left good and hard. This should have happened before I was even born. But they always have a boogie-man to trot out to get you to vote for the latest Crenshaw.

  18. Society already has collapsed as your California example shows. Typhus, Feces on the streets, water rationing.

    This is like the Men v. Women versions of the Survivor shows. The women always end up in terrible shape while by the 3rd day the men have fire, structures, and systemized food gathering. So the producers typically exchange a few men and women. The women end up being taken care of but contributing little to the Men’s island, but the men are shocked when the women basically have run out of everything and are starving and the few men have to try to build the hut, fire, and food supply from scratch.

    The collapsed areas are basically the electoral map, the bluer, the more collapsed. But vampires know how to stay alive by getting fresh blood.

  19. The very instant that anyone here is in even partial collapse or anything close to the real Lagos (no, it isn’t) they will instantly see virtue in saving America.

    The worst that will happen is Russia after the USSR, probably closer to England after the Empire.

    As for foreign intervention that cannot and will not happen financially or otherwise and there’s probably not much interest beyond globalist lackeys who’s sun is setting all over the globe.

    Our core problem is our insane elites, who’s sun is setting as well.

    The worst that will happen here is civil war. Its overdue, we’ll win, we’ll keep America. The Empire goes with the globalists. They’re going now.

    You know some of you would perhaps have a sunnier outlook if you didn’t live in Lagos or other vibrant locales.
    Have you thought of moving to white areas? For our heroic host…Matawan?
    Anyplace south of the Driscoll bridge is America you know. The worst you’ll see is middle class Asians. In the restaurants or strip malls mostly.

    Here’s the racial dot map.
    Most of the country is white.

    • That data is from 2010. Furthermore, it doesn’t take into account age demographics. This country is less than 50% white for those 15 and below.

      • Your despair and resignation will vanish – or at least the resignation – the very instant the long awaited collapse (TM) appears.

        Remember how you felt on 9/11?
        Well. You’ll be in the building, or the street below. You will instantly see the merits of America (I assume you’re American).

        You will also instantly lose all interest in detached irony, or fantasy whitelandias or enclaves. This is fantasy – not that anyone here seems to be interested in doing anything to make it real.

        I mean this is a great grumble BBS for this generations Archie Bunkers, but its helpful to remember he too was a fantasy of Norman Lear.

        Norman and his people of course made something of themselves in America, perhaps the rest of you could succeed too!

        But if you DO, expect to have to fight for it , and teach your sons they will have to fight every generation to keep it. I mean FIGHT.

        Perhaps this is indeed the price we pay for getting rid of compulsory military service.

        Well. White kids are a minority?
        Then go fight for the oppressed minority.

        Have a good day!

        PS; and grow some balls. Even the tranny in the dress has more. Our elites aren’t the only sicklings running around.

        • As soon as you start saying what you are doing (or even suggesting) to “FIGHT,” I’ll start worrying about your growth tips for my wedding tackle.

    • Is it civil war & we must FIGHT or “just move, the country’s still White, quit whining?”

      Let’s all FIGHT for some guy who doesn’t even have the guts to commit to which side of his mouth to talk out of as an anon online.

      You’re just trolling, as usual.

      • Thanks Exile…
        I wondered how many others could see that as well…I wonder if it’s a bunch of different guys using the same screen name that’s why there is no consistency…

        • Seriously, I saw the up-thread detailed “to-do” list then this and it reads like 2 different people.

          • Not just in this thread either it’s been going on ever since it came online… I think they are trying new tactics since straight trolling seems to unite us… Coming from different angles to see if we bite…

          • You’re calling the common sense shot, likely right. I’m resisting Occam’s razor on this probably out of a bias for twisty thinking.

            It could just be someone with a style of expression that rubs me completely wrong. One of our harder tasks in learning how to be collective again is how to lock shields with guys we don’t really like. This dude (if one dude it is) is going to be a hard challenge on that.

          • “They”. 🤣🤣 👻👽🕵🏼‍♀️👮‍♂️

            They cannot possibly have any interest. It’s like when the feral cats see a declawed house cat. They leave it alone. No threat. Same I’m sure for neutered male dogs trying to form platonic doggie friendships with bitches. No interest.

            ^now I’m Trolling.^.

          • Its peace me and war me.

            Peace me gives you a peaceful, legal path. War me reminds you you’ll have to fight for it anyway. This is the eternal fate of men.

            There really is no Fed plot to get you I think. Not worth their time.

          • @exile; the localism works list isn’t a to do list; its being done, its been done. I do half the things on that list, I support the others. Its been done and is being done all over.

            The map of da wipypo aka racial dot map is where da wypipo are, so people can move there.

            Mind you if you show up in MacgyverTown preaching Doom and Demographic destiny blah blah…you probably won’t get very far.

            Never mind saying that “you”ll consider growth tips for your wedding tackle WHEN…” if someone tells you to grow some balls. That took the second cup of joe to make sense. I don’t recommend reusing that line, BTW. Its disturbing.

            Now in peace (localism) or war men can defend what’s theirs, but not by mere voting or blogging, or talking.
            The localism suggestions are how it actually works – not a theory. As for fighting for what’s yours that’s man’s eternal fate. Men who forget that or refuse to fight go extinct – and they should.

          • Don’t talk about my pair and you won’t have to hear any responses about it.

            If you’re on-side and not a glow-in-the-dark (see above), try the constructive tone more often. Unless you can convince me that telling the host and commenters we’ve all got it wrong, grow a pair, etc… somehow contributes to the cause you claim to support.

      • No, I’m trying to shame you into manhood. Reason does not work.

        And yes if you won’t fight for where you are, move to where you will fight. Not to mention you won’t despair so much if you’re amongst your own.

        As for me fighting its a bit of a proven quantity. A bit.

        Sorry if a ray of sunshine peaked through the gloom.

        • How does one fight in so Cal? Not trying to debate, but there is some merit to fighting where you are. But how? And I suspect that you know about who rules us here. High taxes, cost of living, plethora of laws that regulate living, plus squeezing gun and ammo availability–funding the DOJ just to exercise 2A rights. “Move to the white areas on any map provided, yes; but my question is CAN you successfully fight here, and if yes, how?

          • Well as I say for years and Z does too : organize. As for actual fighting my advice is wait for the war – it will come. If you mean non fighting resistance – that’s what the localism suggestions are for – you get involved locally in business, schools, zoning, landlords associations and it all ties in. Many a voice is raised at local meetings about section 8 housing for example. Section 8 are inevitably degenerates who drain local resources, ruin local schools, support the local drug dealers, cause decent people to move. If vibrant section 8 then gangs are certain. We can go on. You can add church organizations (I myself want to burn heretics so I’ll wisely abstain).

            As far as the 2A – your local in effect militia will be found at the gun club.
            Far more; The only conservatives to conserve ANYTHING conserved something of enormous importance: arms. People mock but they’re the only conservatives who conserved.
            Further: there is a distinct gun culture in America – and gun owners are their own subculture. Here again something was actually conserved, and defended by open readiness to take arms. This is important- more important I daresay than groypers vs whoever or whoever is on top today with youtube views. It is the difference between solids (steel, lead and the hands holding them) and gaseous vapors (talk).

            Defend where you live, or move to where you’ll defend.

  20. “The next step down the ladder of decline may be so unstable that the weight of past error crashed society through to the bottom….”

    When a civilization or a community built by Peters and Beckys collapses or more often decays…there are still Peters and Beckys there to stem the rot or collapse and rebuild.  They have a genetic interest in doing so …in behalf of the Beckys and Peters they are raising and for the community to which they are intricately entwined.   

    Jaquinta, Xtlotalle, Nonnenntatee, and Chen aren’t them and will never be them.  Make an effort for whom at the cost of what?  Fat Chance!  Maybe the more astute of our tribe form communities to ride out the worst of it…but no one is going to sacrifice themselves or lift a finger to save what needs to be allowed to collapse or simply rot on the vine.
    “there is the growing sense that what’s left of America is not worth saving. Everyday, more and more white people come to the conclusion that the people they see in politics, the media and popular culture are incompatible with the world they want for themselves and their decedent…”

    The only reason places that are already shitholes – like Crapifornia, Mogadishu, Detoilet, etc – haven’t turned into MadMaxLand is because our institutions can still siphon off people and resources from elsewhere to keep it all going. You can still hobble abound on your right leg if the left has gangrene…until you’re a stump on a skateboard.

    We’ve lived at arms length from widespread violence for 2 generations now.  We’ve come to expect that this is the way it will always be and should always have been.  Our nature and our history spin a very different tale.

    This is what has always made the Zblog stand out from others : an understanding that we can’t go back nor should we…nor are we going to go gently into that good night…nor should we.

  21. From Greer’s piece – “A society in a depletion crisis does not inevitably proceed to catabolic collapse.”. He posits that only through the introduction of new Capital, can society either stabilize or expand. Does he allow for Innovation? Specifically, newly discovered Capital from existing or commodities (thinking about nuclear energy, or silicon)?
    Also, not to nitpick, but he also misses the reality that Human Capital is provided from whites almost exclusively. So his closed loop formula, when inputs are generalized, seems to miss serendipity.

    If there is one thing history proves regarding human adversity, no body MacGyvers like white people…

    • “no body MacGyvers like white people”

      It’s a genetic trait that we all inherited. It arose as a result of fitness selection in the environment of northern Europe in which extreme seasonal climate variation necessitated innovation in order to survive and thrive. We owe it to our ancestors not to waste that inheritance.

      • Orwell from the Road to Wigan Pier.

        “For almost every modern Western man has his inventive faculty to some extent developed; the Western man invents machines as naturally as the Polynesian islander swims. Give a Western man a job of work and he immediately begins devising a machine that would do it for him; give him a machine and he thinks of ways of improving it. “

    • Greer at Ecosophia calls this a Faustian society. In any case progress might slow the decline but fact is you and yours will gradually grow poorer and measured as percentage GDP lost roughly 1% per year since 1973!

      Y/T’s inventiveness didn’t save Rome and its certainly not going to help the US when its not majority White and so much our efforts are spent on hostile “fellow nationals”

      Also our education and finance driven economy gut progress.

      On top of all that much progress is actively harmful. I make labor saving technology, unless that or other tech makes more jobs than my tech costs I’ve just increased the unemployment rate and hurt the economy.

      Every kiosk that replaces a clerk is a vote for Socialism.

  22. Interestingly, I saw on the Twitter today that the boy of the hour, Nick Fuentes, had posted this distinction between the alt-right and his thing:

    “We are not the Alt Right–AR was a racialist, atheist, post-American, revolutionary, and transnational movement.

    America First is a traditionalist, Christian, conservative, reformist, American Nationalist movement.”

    His summary of the “alt-right” is actually pretty fair, and in fact describes my politics. (Though of course the label “alt-right” has to be jettisoned.) Sadly, the post-America part is something I reluctantly accepted a few years back. But once you’re “post-“, it’s hard to go back.

    Although I don’t share his views, I actually like what he’s doing a lot, because he’s (a) smashing relentlessly at the gatekeepers, and (b) always pushing demographic arguments. For that reason, his thing and our thing are–for now–pointing in the same direction.

    I also like him personally. He’s engaging. He also seems like a non-lunatic, which is important.

      • The arguments of Nick and the groypers are that:
        1. massive immigration hurts the wages of existing Americans.
        2. most immigrants do not vote conservative.

        This is true as far as it goes, but even if we stopped all immigration tomorrow, the USA is still going to break up for largely racial reasons.

        I don’t know how much Nick holds back what he really believes, but his angle is a useful bridge to bring people closer to a dissident, race realist perspective.

        • There’s a video clip of Nick responding at length to the cookie monster baking 6 million cookies in 5 years riddle. I reckon he’s holding back.

  23. I would love it if West Civilization could keep itself glued together. My comfortable, easy and soft lifestyle depend on it.

    However, I believe human primordial levels of emotion will override higher levels of intelligent driven levels of cooperation/organization in a multi-cultural, multi-ethic, multi-racial, multi-linguistic, multi-traditional hodgepodge of tribal groups with nothing in common.

    Take for example two roughly equally sized countries S. Korea vs. Tanzania. The former has one people-language-culture and a viable economic system. The latter, 100+ languages-tribes is one of the poorest countries on earth and a complete effn $h!hole.

    Whether we are headed for a closer approximation to a Tanzania type economy in one gigantic cataclysm or smaller steps is an argument for the smart people.

  24. The break-up of the Soviet Union was a good example of a complex society hitting the skids. The Soviets, although socialist, weren’t some African backwater. Any country with a space program can be seen as complex enough to see a pattern, and it wasn’t so long ago. The USSR staggered on despite being in terminal decline. Budget deficits were out of control. The Ruble was affected. Nothing really happened until the bills came due. Until all those civil servants had to be paid from accounts with no money, and factory workers had to be paid in what they were making, and then selling those items on street corners. The Russians are a hard people. They dealt with all of this as a hard people. When the dollar is eventually affected by the Trumpian spending, how will we react? How will the suburban women who suddenly can’t afford massages at the spa react? And how about the n words? How will they react? The USSR for all its problems, never had n words reverting to the law of the jungle. That maybe why a country with even the most unworkable economy was still able to have a space program. Knowing “who we are” I just see us not taking it in stride like the Soviets, but going haywire. The 2008 experience will be seen as the ultimate tragedy, because with the right leadership we could have emerged from it without major structural damage. Instead we piled on the debt times 10 with zero restructuring. The social distortions are a product of the economic distortions. The next financial downturn will bring structural damage to the country itself. If we do stay together and muddle through it will be quite a feat. As far as the countries that would keep us from collapsing, it won’t be Italy or Japan or anyone else. The whole world is indebted. We will be having our own disaster as other countries go through something similar. It will be a worldwide financial problem.

    • The USSR is the best model for how I see US decline happening, for all that our reserve-currency status & hard-power edge means a longer wind-down.

    • Any country with a space program can be seen as complex enough to see a pattern.

      A lot of people inside the Soviet Union saw it coming – Mihail Gorbatchov’s perestroika/glasnost-program was an attempt to stave off the implosion.

      What’s most remarkable is that nobody in the West saw it coming until a few months before the wall fell. I bet a lot of Kremologists are real happy that this was before the internet so the plebes today can’t easily go back and read their doom-ladden prognostications on the subject.

  25. We already have some dissolution in the form of local governments refusing to cooperate with ICE and, lately, different places saying they won’t enforce certain gun laws if passed by the state governments. It becomes de facto when the central government implicitly recognizes that it has no interest in a wide array of decisions.

    If you’re looking for a Roman parallel, Clovis was very happy to be named a consul by the emperor and implicitly recognized his subjection to Constantinople. Similar thing was going on in Spain, where manumission documents under the Visigoths conveyed the various rights of the former slave and, remarkably, made him a Roman citizen. Despite these formalisms, Constantinople had no interest in Spain or France until it had some particular reason (e.g. the 7th century conquest of coastal Spain by the Empire).

    That is to suggest the breakup happens if and only if the central government gives up. But that raises the question of how you get the central government to give up. It’s one thing when the central government just wants trade to keep going and secure borders and all that. Our deep state wants us crushed because of our sins against the open society: we can’t pay them off.

    Thinking our best bets are

    1. a demagogue who implicitly says he wants to crush the _other_ side for their sins
    2. a reckless conservative who sends Federal troops to a sanctuary city and, thus, incites a secession leading to a general bust-up of the Union. Imagine Montgomery County, MD being put under Federal receivership because it refuses to comply with immigration law.

  26. Permanently OT, I’m afraid:

    Imagine Aristotle returns. You are showing him around. He of course can understand anything you can and more, if you develop the background sufficiently.

    You show him your phone and tell him that with this device you can access almost all of the information accumulated by mankind, and you can communicate more or less instantly with pretty much anyone, anywhere.

    He is astonished! The Olympian gods themselves would envy it: they had to send messengers back and forth.

    “What do people do with it?”, he asks.

    Well, most people use it to look at funny cat videos and insult people they’ve never met.

    And he says, “Ergo, Aristophanes was a better judge of mankind than even Socrates.

    • He will say what Tocqueville said–Philosophic systems that destroy human individuality will have secret attractions for men who live in a democracy. The more social conditions become equal and the less power individuals possess, the more easily men drift with the crowd and find it difficult to stand alone in an opinion abandoned by the rest. Men are much alike, and they are annoyed by any deviation from that likeness; far from seeking to preserve their own distinguishing singularities, they endeavor to shake them off in order to identify themselves with the general mass of the people. What concerns me in our democratic republics is not that mediocrity will become commonplace, but that it may be enforced.

      • Prioritizing individuality is part of what got us in this.mess Individuality, as you and I conceive of it, is only possible in a white country. Therefore, race > individuality.

        Paradoxically, we need an overwhelmingly white community before we can have individuality, and that individuality must not be allowed to harm the community.

  27. What amazes me is how quickly events are moving in the current age. Take history in chunks of ~100 years. The people at the beginning of the century live mostly like the people at the end of the century for all human history. How long were we hunter-gatherers, 20000 years? Recent history has given us the discovery of the hereditary material, DNA and the tools to manipulate and engineer the DNA. The Green Revolution, and an understanding of nitrogen fixation. The understanding of the atom to the point that it can be exploited for energy or powerful explosive. Rocketry and space travel. Antibiotics, a big game changer, along with an understanding of the immune system.
    It amazes me that I have living memory of the first personal computer. These have developed to the point where the above enumerated compendium of human knowledge and expertise can be stored in a box the size of a briefcase. The briefcase can be powered by a bicycle connected to a generator. The computer has allowed the rapid creation of coherent social networks numbering in the millions of people. A mediocrity like PewDiePie can collect 2 million followers! AI will lead to additional changes that no one here can imagine.
    Collapse is not imminent. Maybe a retrenchment. I believe we’re on the precipice. Of what, I’m not so certain.

    • OT: Homo Sapiens were hunter gatherers until the development of agriculture 10-12000 years ago and became a distinct species roughly 350,000 years ago. It was the development of agriculture and animal husbandry that ultimately allowed humans the spare time to create the world as we know it. It was also the genesis of all our modern woes. There are many fascinating books that explore this irony. As an aside, I highly recommend the book The Vegetarian Myth for the vegetarian or vegan in your life. It was written by a former luney leftist vegan and gives a fascinating insight into the mind of these irrational fanatics bent on destroying their own health as well as yours.

    • It amazes me that I have living memory of the first personal computer.

      Yes. You sometimes hear that technological development has stalled; it flabs my gast that someone living in the middle of the Internet Revolution can manage such a preposterous analyses. I consider myself privileged to be alive to witness it.

  28. For collapse literature, I can recommend Eileen Power’s Medieval People.

    The early parts are most relevant to this discussion–and most terrifying.

    Basically, there were still large swathes of the western Roman Empire where people lived on for hundreds of years after the main collapse, and didn’t really even realize (or in some cases didn’t want to realize) that a collapse was happening.

    Essentially, they didn’t really know that a new age had already started.

    The creepiest thing is the parallel to our lifestyle. A lot of the late Romans (a) weren’t having children and (b) were so preoccupied with indulgent hobbies, that they were blind to the collapse around them. They also (c) rationalized to themselves the creeping barbarian presence in much the same way that pro-immigrant voices do today.

    And a lot of the barbarians let the Romans live on in the characteristic Roman way–right up until they decided to not let them live that way.

    The most terrifying thing is that it was originally written in 1924, but it seems like every single page is about our situation in 2019.

    It’s free at LibGen and Gutenberg. But I’m warning you: it’s a major blackpill.

    • That kind of reading provides me the motivation to push forward with Community Building not one of despair…

      • Exactly. The part of the story that’s missing is how Western Civilization made great leaps forward during the so-called Dark Ages. So Rome collapsed … and then life went on for everyone else. It sucked to be in urban Rome during the collapse but elsewhere things flourished – economically, artistically, scientifically. Yep, there was the Little Ice Age and the devastating Black Death, but there were many good things about the dismantling of the Roman empire. There are positive parallels for those willing to cobble together interdependent relationships with capable neighbors.

    • I am going to read that.

      The most unsettling thing for me is that people in pre-industrial societies were not dependent on complex or artificial structures to survive. You did the king’s bidding and tried not to die of famine or disease. Now there is so much complexity and diversity – even in rural Minnesota – that I fear collapse will not be gentle like the Roman Empire’s, but more furious. I mean, nobody knows how to live off the grid. If clean water and electricity were to go tomorrow, then we are immediately in Max Max.

    • I just got that on Audible. That looks like it’s going to be a fun listen. And I enjoy books that were written before the “Woke Ages”

    • The most terrifying thing is that it was originally written in 1924.

      That’s a recommendation in itself. You have to go back before the war to get anything resembling intelligent and interesting reflections on Western culture.

  29. I just finished watching the Amazon original series about Hugh Hefner and the cultural wrecking ball he created. It is a very well made and entertaining retrospective that chronicles how we got from 1950’s America to where we are now. I highly recommend it to this audience. Z’s vinegar drinking scolds haven’t changed much. They were just as angry and unattractive fifty years ago minus the tats and fishing tackle. Betty Friedan… good Lord, one look at that face and it’s no wonder she was bitter and angry. It was also interesting to play spot the Jew and watch how they insinuate themselves into something created by the goyim. Of course, Jew women were THE driving force behind second wave feminism. It is truly sickening to watch.

    • I guess in this respect I’m a vinegar drinking scold. I’d like to live a community where pornography was either illegal or extremely restricted and that had some enforcement of modest dressing.

  30. Divorce may be the only option but I am struggling to see how it can or will be amicable and peaceful. The invaders and their sponsors may be able to function in a world without access to white people but they certainly don’t want to. I can’t see them meekly agreeing to just let the white people go.

  31. One useful heuristic is to ask the opposite question: “Are we on the way up?”

    The answer is so obviously no that the question is virtually rhetorical.

    There have been times in American history where people really did seem to have that Promethean, we-can-do-anything, the-sky’s-the-limit feeling.

    The thing is, if the shitlibs really believed that diversity is our greatest strength, then they would have that feeling right now. They would be exploding with optimism and confidence and shouting from the rooftops all the great things we’ll do.

    That fact that they aren’t shows that they know full well that diversity isn’t our greatest strength, and that what they’re really doing is a shabby, resentment-driven, back-alley murder of our country.

    • Most leftists through revealed preference have never believed that ‘diversity is a strength’. It was social status signalling the cost of which was paid by others unfortunate enough not to have enough money to avoid the diversity: deplorables and dregs and such.

      • Absolutely correct, Horace. Intelligent libshits and conservative liberals utilize high median home prices and an enhanced police presence to minimize diversity in their neighborhoods, churches, and schools. They care not a fig for whites trapped at the bottom of the hill.

        The neighborhood’s occasional Americanized African beneficiary of diverse hiring practices provides additional opportunities for virtue signaling.

  32. I’ve never quite understood this belief in a big, quick societal crash that wipes the slate clean. You need only look around to see many examples of our future. California, Texas, Mexico, Brazil, they all function to varying degrees. Are they sh!tholes or on their way to being sh!tholes? Yes. But have they collapsed? No.

    Hell, even South Africa with what, ~15% whites, still functions, sort of – though for how long is debatable. Waiting for the big collapse is a fool’s game. Don’t wait. Start building a community now.

    • Waiting for the big collapse is a fool’s game. Don’t wait. Start building a community now…
      Exactly right Brother don’t wait on anyone or anything just start doing what you know needs to be done that way your covered no matter what happens…

      • Building a local community works no matter what happens in the future. The worst case scenario is that everything turns out fine (not going to happen, btw) and you have a group of close friends and hobbies that you enjoy.

        • That’s been my point for some time now…The benefits of having Community is priceless no matter what happens…

      • I agree with community building. A real salesman could go from church to church and preach it, but he’d have to disturb them first. Also, if the community wants or needs firearms to protect their resources, the state of CA would take that away. I wonder if churches are beginning to think of this. The church that I was brought up in wants more in the collection basket for the poor brown people.

        • That’s one of the problems with big churches is that they take care of the world while their people suffer…There is a bunch of verses in the Bible that talk about that very thing…

    • We’re functioning on debt. We don’t currently feel the pain of what’s happening because the debt markets ameliorate it. CalPers (CA state pension system) is like a Pompeii waiting to explode. Goodbye first world services.

      • Correction. The fiat money and debt system are the engine that funded I’m from the government and I’m here to help you. That’s the service that services itself. Most government is two people doing the job of one which should never have been necessary in the first place. Failure can’t happen soon enough.

      • Well, all I can say is that if I don’t get the CalPERS pension I sweated 20+ years to earn, then no damned Mexican illegal is getting any free health care or education on my watch. It’s easy, too easy, to be generous with OPM in times of prosperity; but when SHTF, charity dries up and family comes first.

  33. If CalPERS is not bailed out we may indeed see an abrupt mini-collapse with knock-on effects in places like Coeur d’Alene and Santa Fe and Missoula and Durango and Bend.

    It’s going to be 21st Century reverse Joad-ism.

    • So strange that I mentioned CalPers right above you and just saw this. Yes, a lot of out of state retirees will be belt tightening for sure. It’s so unsustainable. This state did nothing to reform its pensions. Sacramento clowns retiring by the thousand dependent on that anchor baby on WIC to feed that pension income. It’s not wonder that the Franchise Tax Board is pretty much a thug shake down operation. I don’t know one business owner who doesn’t have a second set of books.

    • CalPERS will be bailed out under the guise of “retirement security” which, in fairness, will become a serious issue in the United States. The most likely vehicle will be legislation that establishes a federal pension trust with the authority to issue bonds backed by the US government. All Americans in the plan will be entitled to a minimum monthly pension.

      There will be a window of time in which entities can opt to surrender their pension assets to the federal pension trust which will, in turn, assume their pension liabilities. Those entities which refuse to opt in will be forced to pay an asset-based tax to the pension trust. All states and local governments with pensions will jump on this deal, as will the few remaining private employers that sponsor pensions.

      Individuals who hold 401k accounts will be given a similar opportunity to surrender their account assets to the trust in exchange for a promised monthly annuity. This will make sense for the vast majority of workers who have little to no savings in their 401k accounts. Upper income workers with significant 401k accounts will also be forced to pay an asset-based tax to the pension trust.

      Liberal economists and policy wonks began proposing similar plans during Obama’s second term but there was not enough of a crisis to drive the program. Demographics will change that in the next 20 years, or much sooner if there is another stock market crash. It’s inevitable.

      • I find this to be a very logical conclusion. I believe something like this will happen. The 401k scenario already happened in Argentina. The problem is you have states like Nebraska, TN and Indiana that are doing it right pension wise. Will their Senators go along with this? More likely this will be done by the Fed, as it will be an arms-length political maneuver. The big problem is that once it is done it will be a direct injection of credit into the system that will be mind boggling. Another nail in the coffin of the dollar. If this is done using government stimulus, you would also need massive outright bribes for Senate votes to states like WY and NB, and IN like what happened with Obamacare. Senators are unethical whores so it could happen.

        • It will be done by the fed right after a crash and they will guarantee to give you in bonds what the value of your pension or 401k was before the crash and everyone will be on board…Which is another good reason to have a LLC IRA where you have control of your money…

      • I need more info on such a concept. Something tells me it all winds up being simply universal income. I’ve been looking for a person like you for about 5 years. No luck until now.

      • Really try telling people with six figures in their 401K’s that the fed is going to take it from them and give them a pittance so to make millions of worthless state pensioners whole. You will have people taking up arms real fast and killing every Federal official and fat cat retiree they can find.

        Now killing off state pensioners would be a good thing since most are nasty liberals who have managed to poison every state they live in. As a Californian I’m well aware of what they did to Oregon, Seattle and NV and now Idaho. It would be a public service to end them.

        • They aren’t going to straight-up take it. They will impose a progressive, asset-based tax on your 401k assets if you choose to opt out of the penion trust program. Initially, it might be 0% for all 401k assets under $100k, then may graduate up to 2% for assets above, say $5MM. In 5 or 10 years rates will rise to something like 3%-5% for assets above $2MM or $3MM. I can already hear Elizabeth Warren screaching that you didn’t build that 401k balance yourself so it’s only fair that you make a small contribution to help fund the plan for others.

          And don’t kid yourself, nobody’s going to do anything about it. This program will have extremely broad popular support.

          • Lots of folks really don’t get how the elites boil the frog. There will be no armed revolution. The middle classes just take it slowly, like they always do, for fear of losing any more of what they do have. Too much to lose, still.

        • Yeah, I get it. Lots of bitter taxpayer’s moaning about public employees sitting on their fat asses doing make work jobs with their snouts in the trough. It must feel good to consign them to penury and death. Well, I am one of those public employees, with 20+ years as a prosecutor in California. There are literally hundreds of vicious, filthy felons rotting in prison who no longer victimize the public because of my work. And I paid taxes on every cent I earned and spent my paycheck at the local grocer, the barber, the auto mechanic etc. I could have worked for a private law firm (not that many would forgive that path either). Indeed, I worked for seven years on a modest public salary before I earned the same amount I’d been offered straight out of law school. The pension promised to me and my colleagues was a recognition of that disparity and a critical recruiting tool. You have to pay for talent and not all public employees dig ditches and shuffle paper. So, for all that I receive a fat, humongous check for $4000 a month pre-tax. And my health insurance premium is deducted before it hits my checking account. So, I’d kindly appreciate it if those who generalize about all pensioners as if they were worthless leaches would just STFU. I earned that pension, and I don’t plan on letting competing public programs displace the county and state’s obligation to pay it.

          • Maus, clearly you are not the surly DMV clerk or city hall paper shuffler being referenced. Many public employees do essential work. Thank you for your service.

          • (Some of us) hear ya. Loud and clear and right there with ya. Some of us spent years in the state sector in positions where we could influence minds and by working against the tide, we know that we have. 14.5% of each paycheck going into mandatory pension fund; no one but worker (no family members) covered by insurance, so that comes off the top, as well. We know exactly whereof you speak.

    • The federal deficit is > $1 trillion. The federal debt > $23 trillion. Federal unfunded liabilities are > $200 trillion. QE continues, and it becomes increasing difficult to see a way forward given the number of people who believe the economy is “good.”

      • I laughed when I saw that the Dow had reached an historic high. I hope this will make non-elites realize how irrelevant these economic measures are to the quality of their lives.

        • One thing I took to heart this week was from Henrik at Red Ice. He said something to the effect that we can’t expect folks to go from “A” to “Z” without persuading them to first make the baby-steps to “B” then “C” etc. That’s true. Listen to folks how they perceive their situation where they are. Offer them an alternative with a healthy dose of community.

    • Whom do you see bailing out a Cali pension fund…in the next 5 years? My point being, maybe they shouldn’t have shit on Trump because he will certainly block any such help. As will all the non-fukked states. No, there will be no joy in Muddville, where Calpers is concerned.

  34. Not sure if this is OT or not, so….

    Zman, how do you think racial ID intersects and interacts with class based ID? For example, someone like Obama or Holder are pure class associatives, that use race based rhetoric as camouflage. A lot of the non-elite whites seem to have had their racial affiliation ‘flipped’ somehow, so they hate their own race — while still following white leaders like baby lemmings.

  35. ….a crisis in America will be met with a response from Europe, Asia and even South America. The internal response to crisis will include global support for repairing the internal problems of America.

    I don’t see that ever happening. No way.

    • I agree. Most Americans have no idea how much antipathy the misconduct of our ruling elites have generated towards us. Most of the rest of the world will kick us in the teeth rather than offer a helping hand, even if they would be worse off doing so.

    • I don’t know Carl, I could see them ‘helping’ us much like how we help spread democracy to countries with pipelines and resources and populations ripe for Disney and Iphones and high finance a la tales of an economic hitman.

      China is already propping up our housing market casino and addiction to stuff funded by debt. Perhaps chairman meow could just buy our highways and the Brussels can pick the bones of Big Ag or something while Mexico can rally more invaders to do jobs Americans won’t do.

      We are but an economy anyhow so the idea of global support is already built-in. Just a matter of reversing the flow.

      The reserve currency cold war will play out too so it just may culminate around that.

    • The problem is that they’re broke as well. It’s a product of decades of central bank coordination and the dropping of the gold standard by 1971. There will be much rue to go around world wide.

    • His book was written before the collapse of the Warsaw Pact and the Berlin Wall, something very few Westerners could predict. The author certainly didn’t.

      That said, I agree as well.The European states are even worse off than we are. And imagine what happens when we’re not there to buy SOME $170 billion in goods. Economic implosion that’s what.

      China is no better off if we had a civil war or collapse of some sort. It would take everything the Chinese Commies have to keep their state from imploding give how export oriented their industries are.

      • China might well fracture before the US if things went south for us. Multiple regions want out from under Beijing. Obviously the western muslims want to break away. Hong Kong clearly wants to avoid being placed under Chicom law (odd how little we hear about that in the news, eh?) But in addition to those, Guangzhou/Canton thinks it can go it alone, as does Shanghai. Keeping the fractious regional parts of China under one political umbrella is more than a full time job even now; it would be massively more difficult in the event of an actively failing US.

  36. “… a man in a sundress demanding the rest of us pretend he is a girl.”

    Leadership of the left in the West has been transformed by transnational finance so that the ‘mission’ of the left has been changed from opposition to excessive oligarch rape of European working classes to opposition to the mere existence of European working classes. Normalization of degeneracy is part of the effort to destroy European peoples.

    Communists with their long institutional memory (mostly funded by European working class taxes supporting universities) have never forgiven European working classes for not following their lead during the Communist uprisings that preceded, accompanied, and finally sputtered out after World War One. (Miracle of the Vistula … Thank you, Poland!) The Coudenhove-Kalergi Plan was an early result. “If they stand in the way of World Revolution, then we will destroy them!” They never stopped trying to destroy European ruling classes either, of course. One of the objectives of Antonio Gramsci’s ‘Long March Through the Institutions’ was seizing control of the training grounds of the ruling elites. It’s not just what gets taught, but who gets taught. Christian-heritage European men are now a minority in every feeder school in the US producing those who staff the control nodes of our civilization: the coinage, courts, media, etc.

    They see European or Western or ‘white’ civilization as something the existence of which precludes global utopia. Hence, their declaration of War on ‘Whiteness’. The Communists want us all dead and gone.

    Final note: the co-development and overlap between the political actors abstracted as ‘transnational finance’ and ‘communist’ needs to be analyzed. Simple greed is part of the description: the capitalists will sell us the rope with which we hang them, and all that.

  37. I agree many people are detaching from today’s ersatz culture, but that doesn’t mean the old anglo culture of quality is dead. It’s still going strong, it just isn’t in the media’s glare. Go to a symphonic performance and it will be 90% white (and 10% asian). Same for a play.

    It doesn’t matter if there isn’t much new culture being produced now, because there is so much already existant. And for all I/we know there are lots of young anglo artists toiling away, that younger folks do know about and support.

    From my vantage point at the epicenter of this ‘phase’ Gen Zyklon is much more red-pilled than previous gens. I see the first shoots of the renaissance poking up already 🙂

      • Exactly the same for me; re: kids and friends. If I didn’t have kids, I would have no clue to all this covert resistance.

    • I’m shocked the Don Cherry story didn’t get more play among our guys. Guess it’s the aversion to anything that reeks of “Sportsball.”

      • Love don but he’s a Civnat at heart… loves to talk about how his parents were hard working, Irish immigrants. He loves to go around talking pictures with brown people. As long as you like tough hockey, love Canada, and work hard, Don supports you.

        He probably realizes now that it was a failure, though. I bet he’s turned into a full on ethnonat, tbh. His hometown of Mississauga is jam full of Pakistianis, Africans, and Arabs. Surprise surprise, they never were too interested in tough hockey and talking like “good Canadian boys”.

  38. And what is a rational person to do in light of all that is described in this post. First, recognize that miracles are very rare and burying your head in the sand while waiting for one is not likely to guarantee your survival. Second, talk is cheap and you can’t eat it if food becomes scarce. Third, friends matter for local self defense, but only if they’re robust and capable. Like-mindedness alone is just another mouth to feed. Societal collapse isn’t the clear and present danger. It’s rise of tyranny due to a diseased culture and degenerating population.

    • TomA, you succinctly outlined my dilemma:
      1. Something is going to break. There is no stopping it. WHAT breaks first (economic, race, Just In Time ______, civil war), no one knows.
      2. For survival of my family, stored resources, community and location will be the key to surviving the WHAT.
      3. Rural appears heavily favored over Urban.
      4. Keeping my head down (grey man), for now, is a strategy but public “tests” seem to be more prevalent. Eventually, no one will hide their bad thoughts, so I recognize this is a time-limited strategy.

      So what to do, now?

      I’m surrounded by safe, white, clueless neighbors. But 5 miles away the Orc hords churn and burn their neighborhood as they are wont to do.

      This tension drives some serious cortisol production right now….

      • 4. Keeping my head down (grey man), for now, is a strategy but public “tests” seem to be more prevalent. Eventually, no one will hide their bad thoughts, so I recognize this is a time-limited strategy.

        We have talked about this before Brother I think grey man is a bad strategy right now and here is why…If no one knows you right now because your grey then why would they ever trust you to band together later when you will truly need friends and allies…The time for making connections is right now when things are somewhat stable so when chaos hits you will have friends already at your side…Now I’m not saying everyone needs to know what your about but you have to start building with people right now to have any hope of survival later on…Just my two cents…

        • Lineman. Yes, you’ve been a solid voice in this mental exercise of mine. Thank you.
          Trusted community is key and yes, we lack it…could building an enclave, on the fringe of a smaller city (very, very vibrant), be worth the effort? Or, does opportunity cost suggest investing heavily in relationships AFTER relocating? I think that’s the crux for me. Dig in, or liquidate and start building elsewhere…
          Based on our conversation, Lineman, I’ve got the “elsewhere” fairly outlined.

          Are Urbanites more likely, statistically, to be awake to the DR? Part of my equation weighs the time of finding and connecting with trusted folks that are part of my thing, vs. the cost of uprooting and looking elsewhere.

          The more I type this out, the more frustrated I become, as I sound like a high school girl picking out a freakin’ outfit to wear…man.

          • Lol at least your thinking about it and not oblivious to what’s going on around you so your ahead of the game… I will let you in on a little secret and that is trying to build Community with your neighbors who are not awake is an exercise in futility…The only way is to have neighbors who are awake to what’s going on and then it’s still hard work because of the trust issue so it takes time which is why I push the way I do because time is a precious thing and we just don’t know how much we have…

          • My experience bears this out as well Lineman. When it comes down to it, most of the awake whites in my blue city are most concerned with trying to figure out how to plug back into the matrix – just at a higher level. The are upset at being left behind or not getting their slice, less about the rot itself.

            They can see the clownworld but they are still chasing the dragon; they can’t quit the striving that the urban environs fosters.

            They want to join cloud city more than they want to destroy clownworld.

            After seeing these people turn on a dime if it means they get to live in cloud city too, I’m convinced a better arbiter of awake is one that is congruent with an environment that demands more fundamental attachment to this earth and fellow man.

            This tendency of urban whites is basically the revealed preference of Libertarianism in the wild. They can keep their pot and their guns (10 round mags) and heir capital gains. But I don’t trust them if things go pear shaped. Its Weimar all the way.

        • I plan on keeping one foot in the Empire, one foot in the sticks for as long as I can. Those of us with lopsided skill sets best suited for the urban hellscape will best serve as recon, rescue & recruiting agents who can step inside and out of the wire. I can handle myself outdoors but there I’m aspiring to be average.

          I’d like to see us build networks that can make use of everyone’s “shade of grey” – from normies who covertly fund us to anon-memers to prepper “WGTOW’s” to monkey-wrenchers to vanguardists who educate and train actual fighters.

          • Same page Brother Same Page… Imagine what you can do and where you can go with a hard hat and a set of keys to the city…😉

    • Yep Tom food will be a key point in whether or not your group survives or not which is why I try and store up food for my neighbors as well as myself just in case they didn’t store enough…

      • California will look like Barter Town in no time. Although I don’t see Kamala Harris as the Tina Turner character. I will eventually go north when the looters come.

        • SOJ? JR, why not exit CA? I don’t know anyone here to do a start up, from the ground floor, starting with food storage. When I find a new state, that is the first thing on my list.

          • You can’t just unplug from the Matrix at any time without a life disruption. I have to make more green pieces of paper down here before I go up north and raise real estate costs for the locals. I won’t be putting CA decals on my car though. The important thing is that I know I’m in the Matrix, and know I need to find a juncture in life where I can make the big change and unplug from the Matrix.

    • Yep. Our future isn’t the collapse of Rome but 1920s and 30s Russia with whites being the kulaks.

      • There are a lot of parallels between between stalinist Russia, Mao’s China and now with white people in the precarious position but I don’t think it’s going to hold up over time. Those society’s were ethnically homogeneous even though they were still killing off large swaths of people. Also they were closer to pre-industrial Society so they had an understanding of how they got to the complexity that they were in. The real difference between chaos and complexity is understanding how you got to where you are. I don’t think there are enough people left anymore that understand how we got to where we are today so essentially when things start falling down it’s straight-up chaos. When people think about societal collapse they always think we’re going to go back to the wild west but I don’t think we even have the skills to build that anymore. Not that it would really matter because if things do fall apart your best bet is to live nomadically because anything you try to build or grow it’s going to be overrun by swarms of people wanting what you have. But I guess it’s all academic at this point. I take comfort in the fact that the future is not predictable

    • And what is a rational person to do? I’d say know history, and then hunker down. Civilizations and empires rise and fall, and this usually doesn’t happen peaceably. I’m not anticipating the collapse of the US nation-state as much as the collapse of virtue, and the consequential degradation of all that’s good, true, and beautiful. For well over 10 centuries now, the Western virtue has been the defining line between civilization and barbarism, good and evil. Here’s the thing … Western virtue doesn’t have to be destroyed in a democracy – it just needs to be nudged into the minority. We’re there. No need to ANTICIPATE collapse … we’re in it.

      The building blocks of what comes next is going to be what it’s always been – cohesive, self-reliant families voluntarily bonding together in community. Key words – self-reliant. In my neck of the woods that means knowing how to extract food from the ground and defend it from the barrel of a gun.

    • I have sounded out lifelong friends over the last few years, and not a single one is robust or capable. In fact, they are hostile. It’s been crushing to me to discover just how isolated I am. Only over the last few months has my spirit returned, and even then, I have blackpill days. Turning the page on one’s entire life is brutal. None of these people will survive and I likely won’t either, because this is the world I fashioned for myself. I have no one to blame but my own choices and judgment.

      • As long as you’re on this side of the grass you can work towards a different future for yourself Brother…

      • ” It’s been crushing to me to discover just how isolated I am.”

        Chin up. You are not alone. Not by any stretch of the imagination. The last few years I started making a point of chatting with all sorts of people I meet to try and gauge where they stand on various issues. It’s mostly routine and mindless pleasantries, but if possible I drop in a line or two to see if the person is into Our Thing, or amenable to it. I can say with assurance that well more than half are at least partly congruent, on at least one or two issues. For some it might be immigration/”refugees”/H1b visas, for another it might be the aggressive promotion of deviance to children, and so forth.

        Which brings me to what I think is a pitfall to be avoided, and that is the “purity” requirement. (General remarks, not directed to you personally.) It is childish and counterproductive to demand that everyone be aligned with you on all things, and to reject and belittle those not 90%+ congruent. If I meet a guy who is strongly anti-immigration (good) but pro gun control (bad), I will engage with him on the immigration issues. Once we have established some bond, or at least friendliness and mutual respect, then I might go to work on the 2A parts, but I’m not going to write the guy off immediately, much less antagonize him.

        In fact, they are hostile
        I am sorry to hear that. Perhaps I have been lucky, but so far relatively few of my friends have become unfriends over politics. (That said, a few marginal cases now apparently hate me, but je ne regrette rien as the song goes. After all, a man is known for who his friends are, but also who his enemies are.) Anyway, not to make fun of your plight, but the following cartoon popped into my head:

        As to the survival part, well, we’re all behind the 8-ball on that one. All we can do is to get fit (literally and metaphorically), prepare, and train. But ultimately it’s in God’s hands (strange coming from an agnostic, but true). Stephen the Irishman may have it right:

    • Keep networking and building friendships.It’s good policy no matter what.

      Stock up on food. With our JIT logistics system it is one hiccup away from the supermarket shelves going bare and within a day a you will have food riots and worse.

      All it takes for the JIT logistics network to go down is a power outage or the highways getting shut down due to sabotage. We are very lucky the Muzzies never figured out this angle.

      Food is also a bargaining/barter tool. in times of crisis.Have a few CARE type packages for locals in need ready. Doesn’t hurt to buy goodwill.

      • @R
        The muzzies have figured that out which is why you see so many as truck drivers…Just wait until they have enough to shut it down and then they will…My advocacy for Community stems from knowing the fragility of the grid, transportation, water, and food production etc and the need to be having all that under local control…

      • They have figured it out lol. They are able to wait it out, though, time and demographics are on their side. One single truckload of produce could so easily be contaminated – and it would kill thousands.

        A lot of the truckers are Sikhs; whom I don’t think are as dangerous as Muslims, though they way they drive suggests they don’t value white (or any) life very highly…

        But yeah… right now, there are tens of thousands of Muslims working in meat packing, driving trucks, stocking shelves, and working at airports. If whatever grand Mullah ever decides it’s time to go against us, most of us would simply be sheep slaughtered through subversive methods.

  39. If it all goes to shit and we have a civil war, the world will invade. Look at Africa, Europeans created the borders without regard to ethnic composition. Nations are born in genocide and war. Africa skipped that step and any attempt to correct their borders (boko haram, Rwanda, etc.), has been stopped by Western powers. The same will be true of America.

    The nation will fragment but Europe, China, the UN, Mexico and Canada will freeze the battle lines to ensure ethnic conflict continues. And to secure mineral wealth for their corporations. Wven after that we’ll “need more workers” to “rebuild the country.” It’s just going to get worse.

    • Well I think if we go, those governments are going to be focused on keeping their populations from rising up also…Their economy is going to be crashing as well since everything is so interconnected… Nothing happens in a vacuum…

    • Europe didn’t stop the genocide in Rwanada.

      Your second paragraph reads like the idiot musings of a 14 year old socialist/conspiracy theorist. As does the first.

      • Rwanda has been booming after the genocide and is now the most dynamic economy in Africa. It makes me wonder if God likes genocide and considers it to be a natural part of the human experience. Who can do nihilism better than God?

    • I would actively support a full-blown Chinese takeover of the United States. We’re already governed by (((foreign elites))) who detest us. At least Chinese elites would reverse our cultural decline into degeneracy and would put an end to importing third-world morons. Murdoch Murdoch already nailed this:

      Sadly, I don’t believe we’ll be so fortunate. America has relatively little mineral wealth. The reality is that 20% of the population of the US generates 80% of the economic output, and that output is largely based on the intellectual capacity of the top 20%. A colonial takeover of the US would sideline that 20%, leaving the new colonial overlords with around 250MM people to support. Not an attractive option. Alaska would likely be up for grabs, though.

      • Actually it would be better being second place to the Chinese then fourth place behind Africans Mexicans and Jews

        • That’s precisely the point of comedy made in the video, and it’s funny because it’s true. Most whites, and certainly most white men, would fare better under Han Chinese rule than under the thumb of the multicultural mulatto mafia.

      • That was probably the best episode of MM ever (their newest one, mocking King Nick, is WigNat trash but that’s another story).

        The Chinese aren’t big on military conquest, but they love economic domination. They’ve fully colonized Vancouver and are now snapping up everything worthwhile in Orange County.

        One plus is that the Chinese do value aesthetics, so the beautiful places along the Pacific Coast should be protected and not turned into Mestizo toilets as the interior will be.

      • You have to be joking. We’re less than human in their eyes and maybe if we are lucky our women will end up as their sex slaves and we males get stuffed in their slave labor run factories.

      • 1. “support a full-blown Chinese takeover of the United States”

        2. “One plus is that the Chinese do value aesthetics, so the beautiful places along the Pacific Coast should be protected”

        3. “We’re less than human in their eyes and maybe if we are lucky our women will end up as their sex slaves”

        Regarding 1) see my earlier comment above about how the Chinese view the peoples of the world: Anyone not Chinese (i.e. Han) is at best a contemptible barbarian unworthy of true respect. Except Africans, who are subhuman and not even barbarians.

        As to 2) while the Chinese do value aesthetics, the Chicoms have zero interest in ecological preservation and the idea of public parklands. Beautiful places would either be turned into private estates for the oligarchs, or logged bare and strip mined, depending on who was ascendant in power at the time. Hell, look at the nest-fouling disaster they are making of their own country. We may have problems, but it’s nothing compared to the pollution and frankly dangerous consumer products (melamine baby formula, remember that one?) they have in their own country.

        3) strikes me as the most realistic view of how the Chinese would view and treat us. But bear in mind that Chinese standards of beauty are not exactly the same as western. My father used to say to me, “In China, a green-eyed redhead would be a considered monster. People have black hair and brown eyes by definition; only fox-demons or ogres have blue or green eyes.”

        • The Chinese would not be any worse than our current foreign occupiers and would probably be better.

          And they don’t claim that our Savior is boiling in shit.

    • Europe won’t do anything. It’s an aging country that lacks the will to enforce anything. The young are needed to maintain empire; Europe no longer has the sufficient young people

      • As I noted earlier the median age in Germany is 4 years older than our oldest State (Maine)

        Upside we won’t have the troops soon enough.

        Our fertility rate per woman of childbearing age, regardless of race is the lowest level ever in US history

        Also a great many of the young people simply can’t qualify.

        71 percent of 18-to-24-year-olds (the military’s target pool of potential recruits) are disqualified from the minute they enter a recruiting station

        H/T American Conservative

        This will get worse and of those who serve, many aren’t loyal , have ulterior motivations (no record but want training for urban warfare/gang life) and don’t serve very long.

        This means the quality of our troops will rapidly degrade.

        The Chinese are the only group that could mess with us , they might but it’s hard to say.

    • I see the opposite. What we have is a free shit invasion. When the free shit ends they will be more likely to return to their tropical environs rather than continue coming here. Half of Africa’s problem is that a complete moron can still pick a banana from a tree and never get frost bite.

  40. I solidly agree with your assessment here.

    Do you follow John Michael Greer’s blog Z?

    The last few weeks your posts seem to be arguing with his, from a dissident right perspective.

    That’s where I’m at in regards to JMG’s ideas, so it’s been very interesting for me.

    I know there’s overlap between his blog and the DR. My impression has been that people are reluctant to mention it just because of how weird a lot of the stuff he talks about is.

  41. >>>there is the growing sense that what’s left of America is not worth saving.

    Bingo! The money quote.

  42. All human organizations tend toward the Tower of Babel.

    The 1787 Constitution is an attempt to beat the rap.

    Progressivism is an unwinding of the feedback loops that kept the Tower in check.

    The Convention of States is about the only thing in view that has the potential to unwind the Progressive unwinding.

    • The Convention of States, eh? When the Jewish delegate from New York and the transgender delegate from California team up with all the other prog delegates to add the Right to Gender Confirmation to the glorious new Constitution, what will you do then?

      • You still need 2/3rds of states to agree on anything to go forward. That’s a tall order. I don’t see Wyoming and Alabama liking what they would propose.

      • Well, that’s just two states that express a weird view in public. One state, one vote. As a fading CIVNAT I have some modest hope for the Convention of States process. I do ‘red team’ that convention process to guess the ways that those who are in charge now will fiddle with the convention to see that they stay in charge. Hope springs eternal. Maybe we just can’t vote ourselves out of this demographic, globalism/consumer, non-spiritual societal mess. In the 1700s and 1800s, Europeans couldn’t vote to fix their messes of interminable war and public strife, they migrated away to colonies of like minded people.

    • A Convention of States would be a nightmare. I’m sure the Left already has several strategies ready to go to derail and co opt it. Once it gets thrown open, anything is fair game. (Think repealing the 2nd Amendment or others in the Bill of Rights) The only real options we have are some form of withdrawl from the present system, a variation of the Benedict option on a super local level, or a larger level if you have the right people organizing it.

  43. This post is an interesting one, because it touches on what I have long considered to be the only viable path to preserve some semblance of higher civilization in the Western world. That is to say, a divorce between people who want to live in a society that we would recognize as functional and desirable, and those who want to continue to live the hedonic and soul-eradicating lifestyle that we see so many of our neighbors doing in practically every area of the country.

    But how is this breakup practically going to happen? It’s not as if American whites are unified as a cohort and are likely to collectively decide to go move to a particular region and fortify it against the hordes of Mordor. Even if a relatively small group of Americans, say two million, decided to move to Montana and do exactly that, such a move would be opposed, and violently so, almost immediately by many powerful forces up to and including the federal government. Put another way, the powers that be do not want such a breakup and will certainly use force to prevent even the idea from gaining real traction. Not to mention the inherent problems of selling even a smallish group of like-minded Americans on the idea of banding together, moving to a particular region, and living a life that is quite different from the dominant monoculture.

    There probably does need to be some sort of disruptive event, like a major economic depression, a war, or irreversible act of sabotage on critical regional infrastructure to prompt people to seriously attempt to break away from the rest of the Empire. Events like that are hard to predict and aren’t common. However, these things can and do happen, and probably become more likely in the atmosphere that we find ourselves in. I think that the recent focus on organizing that I’ve seen on this blog is prudent, and would advise readers to think soberly about practical steps that people in Our Thing will need to take to keep the flame of civilization burning in the years to come.

    • If the federal government or any other group went hot on people just because they moved to MT to get away from Idiocracy then at least the rest of America would see that the government has lost all legitimacy and would either rise up or die off… Thing is I don’t think they would do anything because the optics would be to bad for them to cover up and counter…Look at the Bundy affair and they only had a couple hundred not two million and they backed down because of bad optics of killing Americans…They want you to fear them doing something because they know of you do it they can’t stop it…It’s the Wizard doing everything he can to make you fear him so you don’t pull back the curtain and see what he really is…We have to stop living in fear of the boogyman and just do what we have to do to make our survival assured the best we can…Don’t let the fear of the unknown stop you from working towards a better future for you and yours…

      • Lineman I’m with you in that the fear of something should not paralyze movement toward something better.

        The challenge is less about cutting the losses and more about how to weave a new social fabric with a people who have let those skills go stale – and to produce effective community tendrils that work outside the shadow of federal – and likely state power, that can grow organically.

        The problem is not necessarily the federal government going hot, but it is the federal government’s monopoly on violence that backs the globohomo collusion with private industry and the legal system.

        The network of soft power of regulation, taxation, permitting, land use, water rights, resource and infrastructure, etc is already weaponized against white identity and any formalized anti-Prog.

        The damage of federal overreach is obvious but nowhere near its apex. As the empire declines the bloated bureaucracy will desperately work to expand that reach to harvest resources and justify its existence.

        The anarcho-tyranny of leftist urban life is easily scalable and already largely a matter of a few backroom tweaks by the lizard people. Bake my gay cake, cancel culture, etc. is only going to get worse.

        One of the many things Z man has helped me to grasp is the necessity of prioritizing pro-community and pro-social needs and desires over the impulse to maximize personal economic benefit.

        To your point as well, too many people I know are unwilling to take any risk at all, even though the level of pain and absurdity is increasing.

        They expect some linear trajectory that is underwritable like flipping a house. When in reality it is more like quitting the corporate gig and starting a business out of your garage.

        So with that in mind, not everyone is an entrepreneur. But most people have some appetite or aptitude that can be awakened and utilized.

        I dont know what will backfill after divorce, but I think it will have to include concerted efforts to address the economic needs in ways that bridge the impulse for self-preservation.

        Not just to incentivize the right kind of people but to ensure there will be a system within a system that is robust enough to withstand the growing aggression from the fed.

        Then there is the other issue: do people already in places that favor ‘our people’ and building community insulated from federal globohomo really want to see 2MM people move there? I question just how hospitable people are towards those who are escaping the sinking ship.

        As much as those swimming toward the lifeboats need to take some risk and demonstrate their mettle, those already in the boats will need to determine their own appetite for risk and the inherent challenges of preserving a way of life and rapid growth.

        I suppose I would argue the growth is coming whether you like it or not.

        But you can have some say as to what kind of people you attract. And incentives and systems can operate below and above the radar to incentivize that.

        So I reckon you’d want me instead of my shitlib neighbors from SFO even though they could bring more ‘economic growth’ than I. If I do say so myself lol

        • I suppose I would argue the growth is coming whether you like it or not.
          That’s the key right there Brother and we want those like us moving here rather than those who hate us…So much I could discuss f2f with you that I can’t over an open forum but just know good people are needed and they are slowly trickling in…

        • IMO it is going to be smaller cells, spread out and somewhat grey and indescript. Capable of moving on if circumstances require it. Defensible situations with limited access and, frankly, no reason for anyone else to even notice them or bother with them. Probably a pipe dream on my part, as they will never, ever leave us alone.

    • The closest analogy to the problem of cultural decline in society is a cancer that debilitates one’s general health, and thereby weakens the immune system and allows other opportunistic pathogens to invade and ultimately cause death. You cannot talk your way out of a societal metastasizing disease, but you can tangibly improve your individual robustness, move to a safer environment, and act with intelligence.

    • You can’t look at any scenario like that through the eyes of what we’ve always known. That the government will always be flush with cash. That the government will always be able to pay people to stop things from happening. That people will be loyal to it having lost their (insert benefits). It’s hard to know what will happen until we get there.

    • You’re describing a variant of the Free State movement.

      They did achieve some limited success. But obviously didn’t win their battle as NH is slowly trending blue.

  44. From the perspective of having had alcoholic relatives, banged it square on. Observation around here is that people are simply doing a strategic withdrawal. Pulling in the lines to a defensible perimeter a focusing on what they can control. If uncle Joe wants to spend the days in an alky bar, so be it. Just look at our local politics. Republicans were fighting some pretty good rearguards, but the sheer number of lefty nuts and fact that they will “nationalize” a dogcatcher election makes the whole exercise exhausting and pointless. One of those nuts who happens to be a friend of my spouse ran into her walking the dog and went on a ten minute tear about gun control after the CA shooting this week–of course no idea of what the facts were or if any law would have prevented it. We both find ourselves increasingly cutting these people out of our lives…their monomania just wears you out. But that is where the first downsizing will happen–social networks and local institutions.

    • But as humans, we *need* social networks and local institutions to survive. So while we cut out the crazies, we need to simultaneously find a way to make other non-crazy connections.

      • That is what I mean by “defensible perimeter”. Find the like minded, strengthen your relationships. Even as small as directing your money to those who think like you. Any local contractor I use for my house has to meet the “our guy” test, for example.

      • Half the parents in that town are grinding through the Newhall Pass at 8mph to their jobs in Burbank in some attempt to provide material comforts to their kids, running on very fast treadmills. It’s amazing that that area doesn’t have a shooting like that once a week, as the kids have no social structure to speak of. Just a house with a tile roof and a lawn mowed by Juan. And plenty of anti-depressants for everyone in the house.

      • Depends. Introverts need little-to-no contact; we go happily along for years drawing that circle as close to us as possible and let go of much of life’s drama that way. Only prob –, can be hard to observe without personal, emotional reaction, even when it is not shared or discussed.

    • It’s possible to “cut your losses” when the troublesome actor is a minority in an otherwise functioning system. I’ve cut bad people and bad family out of my life.

      But the situation now is that we’re in some weird Twilight Zone where almost everyone around us is a crazy person or alcoholic. And they don’t want to leave us alone. Our existence is an offense to them.

      Even out here in nowhereland, people have learned to repeat the offical party line: “Racism is bad. Homophobia is bad. Islamophobia is bad. All people are equal. We’re a nation of immigrants.” It’s like listening to a bunch of brainwashing victims.

      A lot of people gripe privately, but if you’re involved in any expression of public power — local government, schools, local media, etc., you can’t come out against the egalitarian credo.

      • Yeah, I’ve noticed over the past decade or so, that even redneck and rural whites seem to have been converted. It jars me to see some white guy wearing a seed company hat saying that we shouldn’t see color.

        Now, what he really believes is another story, but that’s what he’ll say in public. In government meetings, even small town stuff, we have no defense against the Goodwhite or the POC rep.

        • Citizen I’ve seen the same thing. But it’s mostly superficial. They know how they’re supposed to think and talk but if you get into the nitty-gritty with them they revert to type. Discuss the rape of white women by foreigners.

        • Listen to modern “country” radio… that’s all you need to know.

          Redneck country people are sometimes some of the biggest cucks – they have an inferiority complex and are quick to try to show that NARednecksALT.

      • That is the conundrum. As Capt. S points out above there are none of the geographic solutions to strategic withdrawal. Professionally, I do a lot of turnaround work, both small and larger scale. Often, to save a business, the first step is to cut out the ventures that are unprofitable or consume resources beyond any future return. Strengthen the core and expand from a stronger base. Locally, trying to marshal resources to keep fighting a lemming like mentality that believes a highly competent local office holdert needs to spend their time “disavowing” national political issues or be replaced by a local lefty that will spend their time worrying about sanctuary villages, renewable energy and social justice (whatever that means) is a waste of time. On the other hand, we’ve seen up close how these people are thrown in to a frenzy by an Identity Europa sticker put up at a nearby community college or “it’s ok to be white” scrawled on a bathroom stall in a local high school. I’d invest time in strengthening like minded networks in big and small ways and perhaps some guerrilla activities designed to put sand in the gears.

      • Balkanization won’t work because GloboShlomo will never allow it.

        Would it work if we were allowed to do it? Probably, yeah. But it’s not something we are going to be allowed to do, ever.

        • No empire has ever “allowed” its own Balkanization – at best they’ve pretended to after it already happened on the ground (Rome, Britain, USSR).

          Magic All-Powerful Jew Theory.

        • You don’t ask for permission in such situations, you get strong and take what you want either politically or sometimes other ways.

          The conceptual problem that people are having is a fix may require a nightmarish revolution to get and the reward is largely minimal and long term.

          A good argument could be made that all you get is work and suffering to build a society you’ll never see and for people not yet born.

          Even Y/T doesn’t usually think in those terms unless he can see at least green shoots, like you have grandchildren or great grandchildren already.

          Yes in theory we get a Hallmark Channel world, a Great Place to raise kids for our great grandkids but most of us have few kids, do not expect large families now or in the future.

          This not the fault of our Lords of Misrule BTW but a natural process of technology , urbanization and crowding.

          Until a total collapse this problem will not go away. Large multigenerational families make no sense for modernity.

    • You can’t be nice to people like that. You begin by calming her down. “Listen bitch. I said listen. It was Santa Clarita. The song Teenage Wasteland may as well have been written about that town.”

    • I won’t presume to speak for the Z Man, but perhaps one way to “cut our losses” would be to Balkanize into a less perfect union. There’s no other nation state in which to run, so a grand resettlement within the FUSA. One great amicable no fault divorce might be the best case scenario, and one that would be acceptable to the rest of the globe to whom we owe so much money. Either that, or they step in and take ownership.

      • For me, it means you have to psychologically disinvest in the country (I mean the formal polity, not necessarily the people), and start thinking about what comes next.

      • Other than China, no one can step in and do anything. China is a big threat worth discussion on its own but IMO it’s gradually moving to its usual historical condition of being the middle kingdom, a high civilization and culture with no need of the outside barbarians.

        They won’t really give a crap at a certain point as their tech base will equal or exceed ours and they can turn inward to deal with local demographic issues.

        As for the other “great civilizations” our vassal states in Europe and Japan they can’t bail out the empire as they haven’t the money or resources

        They can’t invade either if anything FUSA is still stronger militarily than all of Europe. They also for the most part have equal or worse demography than we do. Germany is a year older than our oldest State of Maine

        Truth is China aside all threats and our “owners” while globalists are domestic.

        Beyond the gross mismanagement by our elite we risks we face are civil war or collapse. The later again worth a post on its own is though if followed by separation anyway the easiest.

        It’s also ongoing and can only be arrested by a strong interest in preservation which simply no longer exists.

        • China has never considered itself the “Middle Kingdom”. That is a deliberately incompetent translation, probably to salve Western egos. The meaning of Zhong Guo is CENTRAL NATION. Much as Boston calls itself “The Hub of the Universe”.

          “Middle Kingdom” implies mediocrity, of being nothing special. “Oh, Sally’s just the middle child.” You may be assured that China (regardless of whether it is run by an emperor, a politburo, or even by Sacred Democracy) considers itself inherently superior to any and all non-Chinese (for which read “non-Han”). To a Chinese, China is the root of all worthwhile culture, and of all valid ethics.

          Expanding further on this theme, to China, western whites — especially Americans — are clever-though-disgustingly-hairy barbarians, proven to be dangerous, but also useful for now (i.e. until Trump very willing to go along with grossly imbalanced trade practices, and as the premier source for theft of IP and process knowledge); other East Asians (Japanese, Koreans) are pretty close to being actual human beings, but are contemptible and despicable since they are, respectively, dwarf rapists, and drunken garlic-eating louts; South Asians (Indians, Pakistanis, etc) are mendacious, untrustworthy, ass-kissing barbarians who are occasionally clever enough to be dangerous, but generally contemptible streetshitters; South-East Asians (Thai, Vietnamese, Filipinos, etc) are intellectually limited barbarians to be exploited (the “Overseas Chinese” in SE Asia serve much the same roles and stereotypes as Jews in Europe); all Muslims are hated and despised; Jews are not viewed in better odor than their co-Abrahamites, though their cleverness and “reverence for scholarship” are acknowledged, they are always viewed with suspicion. And finally, the piece de resistance: blacks are viewed as subhumans who do not even rise to the level of barbarian. That’s the Chinese view of the world’s peoples, in a paragraph.

          Finally finally, the Chinese have long memories. The humiliations imposed on them by the West, including the forced opening of markets, and especially the opium trade, have not been forgotten. (NB it doesn’t matter if these were actual wrongs perpetrated by the West, the Chinese belief is that these were deliberate humiliations which must be avenged.) This is one reason China is flooding the US with fentanyl. It is not just to weaken a rival (though of course that is part of it). It is REVENGE for the opium wars.

          • After working in a number of various Asian-American communities, I can confirm that what you are saying is completely correct. Then, from the point of view of some of the others (Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese), it all gets stood on its head, and the Beijing/Shanghai Chinese get viewed as overbearing and thinking of themselves as way over their station in life. Things get complicated.

          • I understood Middle Kingdom as “between Heaven and Earth” rather than the way we see the term in the West

            As I understood it that term denotes the same importance you mention. This doesn’t mean I disagree with you mind, just so there is understanding of what I meant.

            As far as the fentanyl issue, unlike China during the Opium wars we have the ability to do something about it. The entire problem is caused by our leadership.

            Anyone with a brain knows that China is a low trust country and that you’d need to inspect everything from there

            The problem is very simple, the moralists in our society believe that addicts deserve death , the hostile non Whites see this as dead Whites which is payback and benefit for them and our leaders care about nothing but money and for the Left power as well.

            The key job of the dissident right really is replacing every single institution with our own elite, a term knows as rotation for the elite.

            Beyond the practical solution, its challenging on an intellectual level. Too Many Dissident Right people see themselves as anything but a future ruling class.

            Worse our own movement has Libertarian and Money Junky types nibbling at its heels.

            I don’t speak for them but my guess is they hope someone that the movement will do the heavy lifting of making a sane society they can make a profit in. Grifters basically

            Its IMO more parasitic than the Left many of whom (not all of course) for all their bad ideas is trying to improve the common life of most people rather than those of a few people.

            The truth is the DR needs to be an authoritarian populist economic nationalist movement not a minarchist, Constitutionalist or Libertarian one

            The later three IMO here can sod off back to Reason Magazine or whatever militia blog they favor.

            IMO here the DR isn’t about muh constitution, muh personal freedom or any kind of economic liberalism. It’s about making the nation a great place to raise kids for Whites and friends and suppressing Cultural and Economic Marxism and depravity so that a healthy culture can grow . Whatever works, Works

          • @AB: understood; I certainly wasn’t criticizing you. And everyone uses the Middle Kingdom translation. I just happen to think it’s somewhat misleading.

            @Dutch: also agreed. Plenty of peoples dislike the Chinese. The Japanese of course consider anyone non-Japanese subhuman (just as do the Chinese, only the Japs are smoother about it). The Koreans aren’t wild about either the Chinese or the Japanese. Vietnamese I don’t know enough to have an opinion, much less insight. And on the off chance anyone cares, I personally don’t endorse the “Chinese View of the World” outlined above, but I think it’s fairly accurate as to how proper Chinese think.

    • Yep, we’re stuck. For me, though, it means cutting out the personal time/energy/resources that might go toward reforming our unreformable, irretrievably corrupt institutions. E.g. Pull the plug on public schools, don’t vote for “lesser evils”, don’t rely on The Fed to get us out of the next financial crisis, etc. Anything/everything that I can do “underground” I will, and my time/energy/resources are invested in ever-increasing concentric circles around my own house – i.e. my family, my community, my people.

      • The Fed is behind most of our financial crises. Their policy of QE is a strategy to make the debt problem seem less than it is via spurring inflation.

      • CAPT S: Your concentric circle paradigm has been and always will be the right way to go. Think concentrically.

    • Don’t make it official. Don’t advertise. Keep it sub rosa. Populate an area. Gain local political control – school boards, city councils, mayor, governors. Gain control local media, TV, radio, newspapers. Build churches, civic organizations. Don’t force a confrontation. Deny what you’re doing, just do it!

      • That was a fun story. One of my favorite things about today is if someone in a comment thread mentions a short story I can just go read it right now. It really is amazing

          • Glad someone still appreciates Maugham. The academic lit twits sneer at him, hipsters (if they’ve ever heard of him) think he is racist. Maugham’s personal life seems to have been increasingly sordid as he aged, but his writing is a model of clarity with lashings of wisdom.

          • Whitney: Anything by O. Henry, the American master of the short story genre. As a bonus, he wrote well before political correctness became a thing.

          • Assume most have read Vonnegut classic, “Harrison Bergeron”? “Blood Music,” by Greg Even was a good ‘un.

          • Harry Harrison’s short classic By the Falls is online, and very apropos to any discussion on societal collapse

  45. Are there some historical parallels to ‘cutting our losses’ that we could look to for any kind of guidance? Rome is always an interesting case study but the tribal invasions of the past are somewhat different than the one we face today. Perhaps the slow decline of Alexander’s empire and it’s splitting into multiple factions? The decline of Spain in the 17th century? Which core nations were successful in protecting themselves from the collapse, and why? I’m not a historian but I would expect we could find something useful in each of these examples?

    • The Senatorial families all married into the Germanic nobility. Peasants probably didnt know the empire had fallen. Life just got materially worse.

    • I’m curious about this as well, but I’m also not sure to what extent historical parallels are accurate. I imagine cutting losses in the past was less difficult since the people weren’t nearly so psycho-spiritually hollowed out and the rulers trying to hold everything together didn’t have as many tools and methods for doing so. The scale and technological level is unprecedented.

      • Good point. Rulers of the past couldn’t have dreamed of having the kind of mind control that ((TPTB)) have over us. Life was local back then, with wisdom being passed down from family and real life, not TV.

        It will take a lot to overcome that.

    • The parallels I can think of all had an option that we no longer have – “new worlds” to discover and civilize. In the past it’s also not “core nations” or empires that protected themselves. They come and go. But there are people-groups who’ve been successful in preserving their ethnicity and traditions … that’s where we need to look.

        • Roger – I saw one of your earlier posts awhile back that you’re going to “make it happen” right where you are. Good on you brother.

          • I am, Capt. but the background noise of “is this the best use of time and energy for the payoff?” never leaves me…
            Several authors make solid cases for retreating to build on an enclave, with existing and projected demographics being the primary decision driver.
            For me, the white-pill process seems to be carrying with it the pain of letting go of so much assumption and bias that Americana can be saved. Tearing that part out, while looking ahead at the future I will build for my offspring, is my “crossing the chasm” perspective.

          • Live in Red America

            Localism can work when the local gentry put in the work and lead, and put their time and money where they live.
            I can think of two examples; where I grew up (and moved back to) and lets say an upper middle class white rural area in the great lakes region.

            1. Promote local business.
            2. Promote local events and organizations.
            3. Emphasize to all that mom and pop stores are rooted in us, not corporate HQ. Great example-health care. Mom and pop pharmacy and providers help your mother and aunt as champion stakeholders to negotiate insurance maze. Walgreens, CVS do not.
            4. Blue metropolitanism focuses on large urban markets; and ignore vast swaths of the Red rural geography- as I told my salesmen those pennies they disdain are OURS; pennies roll into dimes, dimes roll into dollars. Their snobbish neglect is our profit.
            5. A great example is local and regional SPORTS. No one is covering these games- oh wait, we are. Our advertisers kids and their clients kids play on those teams. The pennies are adding up.
            There’s more to life than money, but people respect business plans^OK?
            6. More to life than money; sit on local school boards- minimize vibrancy.
            No Section 8: Bad for business.
            7. Also sit on zoning boards- no vibrancy. When the landlords live local, know their tenants and also sit on school boards you would be amazed at the quality of life where you live.
            8. Support your local police. This also comes in handy for DUI turning into a ride home. For those of you with Drugs as a value I don’t know what to offer you this way, but then again your mistress allows you no room for the rest of life anyway. You actually should avoid the police. Vote Libertarian.
            9. School board and mommy as part time educator allows you to monitor and control content, OR ease the path for Home School.
            10. Join the Gun Club and

            Fall in Love, LOVE the 2D Amendment. I don’t care what you believe. Join. You don’t want to be without this chair when the music stops. This _- THIS – is your ultima ratio civic organization, and it will happen. Also – you get actually mannerbund with actual Men. You’ll even get to discuss shooting vibrancy- its good for the soul. Not to mention the local cops and vets will get to know you as a good guy.

            Anyone can follow the steps above in any county that voted Red. Anyone.
            If you want to live Blue – this is not for you.
            Good luck.

          • Why not mention some of this when you’re black-pilling in the comments below?

            We can have a constructive debate about whether the “stay and work the system” approach can work, but when you start Boomer-posting on everyone else’s ideas & rubbishing the host, you come across as a troll. Pick a side and stick to it.

          • Taki has a great article called “Myth of Boomer Privilege” this month. Talks about alienation of natural allies in the coalition. Makes good sense, but Taki always does.

      • When I speak of ‘nations’ I mean ethnicities, not states. The Biblical ‘nation’, or the ‘First Nations’ of the American West in the 18th/19th century. So we want to look at, say, the Basques, the Amish, and the Québécois, who have managed to preserve themselves?

      • Analogy. Second law of thermodynamics. Order, the most unlikely state of affairs, tends to disappear. The maintenance of order requires that work be done on the system. In the absence of work, order disappears. As we replace more productive people ( engineers and scientists) with less productive people (journalists, career politicians, bureaucrats, unskilled foreign labor) less productive work gets done and disorder increases.

        • So basically Douglas’ Adams story?

          “These tales of impending doom allowed the Golgafrinchans to rid themselves of an entire useless third of their population. The story was that they would build three Ark ships. Into the A ship would go all the leaders, scientists and other high achievers. The C ship would contain all the people who made things and did things, and the B Ark would hold everyone else, such as hairdressers and telephone sanitisers. They sent the B ship off first, but of course, the other two-thirds of the population stayed on the planet and lived full, rich and happy lives until they were all wiped out by a virulent disease contracted from a dirty telephone.”

      • “new worlds” to discover and civilize”

        We’ve got an entire solar system
        If we can muster the capital to get off this rock ..

    • A better example may be the Ottoman Empire which was slowly carved up by regional players in the centuries of its decline after the failed siege of Vienna. Pieces of its empire became protectorates, or wholly independent while that which made them whole became more and more of a faded memory. Through it all the European powers strove to keep the empire alive to use as a crudgel against each other. Even in the end they weren’t too keen on Atatürk’s plans to end the empire because they couldn’t imagine a world without it.

      As an aside it’s been mentioned though that technology of all kinds is an accelerant in this sphere. For instance the Soviet Empire probably could have staggered on for a few centuries were it not for instant communication and weaponized global trade and financing.

        • You would never believe that watching American TV and movies. One might think America is mostly black and mostly gay.

          • Even if you move to a Maine or Vermont you’ll still be at risk from the resettled refugee crowd. In the midwest and south you’ll be at risk from the illegals employed by big Ag.

          • Large areas of New England are completely free of diversity, and much of New England is too rural and too expensive for poor immigrants. Stay away from Boston, Providence and Connecticut in general and you’re good to go.
            The bulk of Vermont, as well as New Hampshire, is almost pure whitopia. The North Country in Upstate New York on the border of Vermont and Canada is also good.
            Very beautiful this time of year.
            Sublime, even.

          • Manchester, NH has ever-increasing numbers of Africans and Afro-Caribbeans. This summer I even saw a man from South Sudan. Then again, Manchvegas-on-the-Merrimac also has a nontrivial problem with opioid-addicted whites.

            Lewiston-Auburn, Maine is infested with Somalis. Something like 9-10% of the population is Somali now. Portland, Maine has had influxes of “refugees” recently as well.

            It’s true that well over 90% of the populations of ME, NH and VT are white, but there are steadily growing pockets of lovely, vibrant diversity wedged in by the usual suspects. And “usual suspects” in this case is NOT code for the eternally unfairly victimized. It’s do-gooder church groups as much as anything else.

          • The fact that they’re contained in relatively compact urban areas just makes the cleanup-operation-to-come-later that much easier.

            Most cities have relatively good rail access. Which solves the transportation problem. Congregating together in public housing makes the collection problem more efficient.

            Just sayin…………..

          • Glad to hear that! Seriously. And many, many areas…lots of nice, old-timey, small towns… in the Midwest have no Big Ag workers –or else they’re doing all their shopping by internet and never go out.

    • Great Britain. They are a few generations ahead of us. They were once powerful and self-assured, now they are overrun, insecure, and submissive to foreign powers. Our Gulf of Suez may have already happened. We have Enoch Powells in our midst, but the government is ignoring them. Just wait. The US will be subservient to one or more foreign powers, just as Britain is. It will not be able to break free. And we will become someone else’s economic zone.

      • Their govt is just as open-borders globalist as ours. But they’re still just under 90% white and 60% self-identifying Christians. Their ethnic minority populations tend to congregate together in the big cities.

        • Sixty percent of British are self-identifying Christians? I don’t think so. The quasi-Marxist, materialist state and Muslim expansion have nearly swept the board. In Britain, vast numbers of churches have been turned into restaurants, snack bars, recreation centers for inner city “youth,” and mosques. Reportedly many C of E congregations have shrunk to a remnant.

          The Spectator says, “… between 2001 and 2011 the number of Christians born in Britain fell by 5.3 million — about 10,000 a week. If that rate of decline continues, the mission of St Augustine to the English, together with that of the Irish saints to the Scots, will come to an end in 2067.

          “That is the year in which the Christians who have inherited the faith of their British ancestors will become statistically invisible. Parish churches everywhere will have been adapted for secular use, demolished or abandoned.”

          Not a useful guide, except as a warning.

    • If evolution proceeds primarily by natural selection and migration, then the global replacement of white people by POC and Asians will be the outcome, as white people are unwilling to resist. Past success does not guarantee future success without a fight.

      • White people in the West are unwilling to resist. Whites in Eastern Europe and South America seem less interested in disappearing.

    • We need to dispense with historical parallels, IMO, and think in terms of our psychological and philosophical evolution. We have different times, different technologies, and different philosophies than the Romans, the Ottomans, or the Imperialist powers of Europe. As we should, we are different people.

      For most of our recent history, we looked at the world through the lens of God’s divine will. If the monkeys beat us in a battle during the crusades, God was angry with us and teaching us a lesson. If we trounced them, God was pleased with us and rewarding us for our virtue.

      In the 1400’s our technology surpassed our wisdom and our faith ran afoul of guys like Capernicus, Gallileo, Cassini and the new breed of scientists. The scientists did pitched battle with the clergy and won; our new guiding light was then Reason. Reason would tell us the way forward in all things as we worked toward the Grand Unifying Theory that would ultimately replace God. It worked like a hot damn for a couple of centuries and with the Industrial Age – even peasants and Dirt People found that they had money and a little leisure time. All it cost them was their souls – people are not reasonable animals.

      Around the 1950’s the Boomers conjured up an utterly contemptible and dispicable philosophical social construct of “relative truth”. According to them, my truth could be different than yours. Yours might be different than our blog host’s. His could be anything else altogether – it didn’t matter. It led to madness – now boys can be girls and vice versa, there are 57 genders, and you can rape a woman with words, and a dirty look… and enslave vibrants with them as well. There is no God, no absolute truth, EVERYTHING is relative. A fine example is Xirl Science where intersectionality is a subjective truth to be determined by sexually disturbed harridans and morons. Of course it is absolute rot – 1+1=2 is an absolute truth. It is true here in my house, it’s true in your house, it’s true at the bottom of the sea or on top of the highest mountain. Blacks tend toward stupidity and violence, women are emotional and childish, men have to protect and provide for their families. There may be exceptions to all that – but they ARE the exceptions. The path the progs are on can only end one way – and they CAN look to the trash can of history and see their fate.

      The NRx guys will vie with the Dissident Right for the next step in our philosophical development. If we can’t see the world as it is, we can’t live safely within it, or change it to what it should be. Our answers will not be found in the ancient ruins of Rome or Greece.

      For me personally, I found the answer in God. I went back to basics. I’ve studied the bible and was shocked when I found a LOT of good stuff here. I can see why Lefty hates it – truth burns the stupid and sinful. The Bible should be mandatory reading for all Dissidents and their families. The way forward is simple – our pursuit should be virtue and truth… and from where I sit… the Dissidents have a lead on the NRx guys… but who knows? The final word isn’t in on them by a country mile.

      Keep doing what you’re doing boys. You are on the right track.

      • Yes, the Bible. But also spiritual literature from Vedanta and Buddhism, plus Christian and non-Christian mysticism. Maybe the Bible is as good a place as any to start, but it should not be the end of seeking for truth.

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