Talking To Normie

Continuing my experimental phase, the show this week is about ways to talk to our normie friends and family, in a way that leads them our way. I’ve been around civic nationalists recently and I was reminded of conversations I’ve had with others about how tough it is sometimes for dissidents to address the civic nationalist arguments in a way that brings them our way. This week I thought a show on how to talk to normie in a positive way would be interesting.

I was not sure how I wanted to structure it, so I took some of the things that have come up recently in my normie interactions and made those segment topics. Then I just turned the mic on and started talking about each one, as if I was giving a short lecture to a classroom full of civic nationalist. I was thinking of it like a class on dissident politics for freshmen level students. I wanted it to be accessible to the sorts of people who don’t spend any time on this side of the great divide.

The key thing with talking to our normie friends, family and acquaintances is to not become adversarial. The huge blunder our side makes on social media is to mock these people as if they are enemies. A little bit of that is fine, but fifty people blasting a civic nationalist on Twitter is not winning him over. It’s only hardening his position and making it easier for the gatekeepers to keep him inside. These people are future allies and compatriots, not forever enemies of the cause.

Effective organizing is building lots of on-ramps to this side of the great divide, to make it easier for all sorts of people to come this way. Language that will work on the 2A civic nationalist will not necessarily work on the spergy libertarian. The Sean Hannity watching patriot is going to respond to different rhetoric than the Tucker watching Donald Trump supporter. Dissident politics needs to be like a department store, with something for all the types of white people out there.

This inability to build on ramps is why prior race realists have always failed to gain any traction. They struck people as lunatics. They had one on ramp. You had to pay the lunatic a toll in order to cross over. The now defunct alt-right suffered from the same defect, as it became loaded down with insider jargon and factionalism. All the ways into it were narrow and went passed people that most people would find odd. It’s why they could never break out of their subculture.

It is the heart of the optics debate. If dissident ideas are to gain traction with typical white people, it has to creep up on them like the fog. One day, they just find themselves on this side of the divide, without realizing they made the journey. That happens by having lots of ways here and lots of pleasant sounding people they can trust, subtly pointing them in this direction. That can only work if there are lots of doors through which they can pass into this type of politics.

This week I have the usual variety of items in the now standard format. Spreaker has the full show. I am up on Google Play now, so the Android commies can take me along when out disrespecting the country. I am on iTunes, which means the Apple Nazis can listen to me on their Hitler phones. The anarchists can catch me on iHeart Radio. YouTube also has the full podcast. Of course, there is a download link below.


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This Week’s Show

Contents

  • 00:00: Opening
  • 05:00: Hate Speech
  • 15:00: Public – Private Tyranny
  • 25:00: Who Owns You?
  • 35:00: Peaceful Separation
  • 45:00: The Value Of Citizenship

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Full Show On Spreaker

Full Show On YouTube

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Member

I had a conversation with a normie yesterday that started with her talking about how much she like Dennis Prager. After a series of back and forths we got through how people like Dennis Prager and Ben Shapiro support ethno-nationalism for their own people but condemned it in white people to how the guy who got life in prison in Charlottesville was a political prisoner for promoting white rights not for killing someone by showing drunk drivers can mow over entire families and get 10 years and at the end of the conversation she quite seriously had the realization and… Read more »

Forever Templar
Guest
Forever Templar

Yeah, pointing out tyranny by minority seems to be really effective. I use that tract when talking about gays and trannies.

Member

I saw yesterday that I had to be very clear that I supported Jewish people and the Jewish state for them or I would have lost her right then. Going after the sacred cows would have ended the conversation and I cannot honestly state that I support rights for the for the degenerates so that would end the conversation right there and identify me as a ‘bad person’

Member

And that is precisely why I am a bad spokesperson for the DR. I am really impatient with dorks who think they are morally obligated to support Israel and perverts. Turning over tables is usually an impediment to conversation.

Yves Vannes
Member

The TRS guys had a good take on this:

I’d really like to extend the Jews a right to have a homeland that is for them but…they won’t extend that same right to our homelands. They are even attacking Japan for wanting to keep it Japanese!
(blunt the goy vs jew problem).
As long as they are willing to support our rights to our homelands then I will happily support their rights to theirs.

Just point out the hypocrisy. It’s not that you’re against Israel or Jewish interests, it’s about fairness.

Ant Man Bee
Guest

Israel is not the Homeland of the Jews. If it were, then all the Jews would go and live there, and then they would forever after be free of the turrrrble scourge of all the antisemitisms. But, as we observe, Jews do not go and live in their alleged Homeland, and they don’t want to, and they never will. They are quite comfortable right here, delightedly relaxing on some cushions in the shade, contentedly sipping the blood of their dumb goy hosts. In fact, what we see is the reverse: hordes of Israelis migrating to the West, Jewishly using whatever… Read more »

Yves Vannes
Member

The goal here is to get whites to think in terms of white interests. We can only do that by not spooking them with demands that go against a lifetime of social conditioning. I don’t care what happens in the Middle East. Getting our tribe to think like a tribe is what we should be putting all of our energy into. If we can get enough of our people to think in terms of group interests…all of this other stuff will work itself out. Steps 1 and 2 first. Whitney is correct, too many potential allies will tune-out if we… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

I agree, Ant Man, Israel is their Sicily.
I’m thinking “The Godfather” here.

james wilson
Member

According to Paul Johnson’s History of the Jews the old Hebrews at all times gave themselves fits trying to govern themselves and flourished instead in those eras when they lived in Babylon or were simply ruled by others. My guess, this is baked into their DNA, just as our relative trust of strangers, which leaves us defenseless against subversion, was baked in during the unprecedented North European out breeding during the Middle Ages.

Member

According to Paul Johnson’s History of the Jews the old Hebrews at all times gave themselves fits trying to govern themselves and flourished instead in those eras when they lived in Babylon or were simply ruled by others.

Johnson plagiarized that from the Old Testament. 🙂

That’s pretty much the entire narrative.

Member

“Our Greatest Ally and Best Friend Evah does not even have an extradition treaty with us.” That is the type of approach I use with normies a well as things like “have you ever noticed that Jews say walls are against their culture and want massive immigration to the US but in Israel they have a wall and strict immigration for Jews only. Why do you think that is?” I ask that with a tone of questioning and then pause. That usually causes them to connect a dot for the first time and really think about the issue. They haven’t… Read more »

Lorenzo
Guest
Lorenzo

A great way to fix it so the normies shut out anything you say is to start banging on about the Jews. It’s a sublect normal people rightly associate with losers and cranks.

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

Lorenzo. That would be true, but I usually avoid such by simply acknowledging what we often do here, that (((they))) come from some high IQ stock (at least the European side), and they take care of themselves in a clannish manner. Both observations are to most people, neutral to positive. From there, it’s not much of a stretch to promote, that we (Whites) might take a lesson or two from their success. No need to turn folks off.

Lorenzo
Guest
Lorenzo

Compsci, you’re right. The Jews are a group of smart people, socially cohesive, who tend to look after each other. History and natural selection explain this adequately. That much is true, jabbering about conspiracies is wrong and plain stupid. Pretty much the same could be said of Mormons.

Israel is a small country in a hostile environment that uses the means at its disposal to prosper and survive. Can’t blame them for that.

Exile
Member
Exile

Do Mormons have 10% of the influence Jews have over finance, media. the courts and politics in America?

Israel is the only nuclear power in a hostile environment it chose to occupy.

Some of those “means at its disposal” include manipulating the United States into fighting its wars.

Americans can and should blame them for that. Why don’t you?

Exile
Member
Exile

Normal people rightly… ?

You’ve just called about 120 of the 180ish commenters here as I post this “losers and cranks.”

Way to go, Lorenzo. Winning hearts & minds for Zion in typically charming Jewish fashion.

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

It’s also about hypocrisy. Most people don’t even know about the USS Liberty incident. So their view point of Israel is one of unfettered goodness. There is no bad thing that Israel could have ever done. Killing Palestinians doesn’t really count in most people’s heads. But you can setup cognitive dissonance within normie heads – by asking them why they simply don’t care about the deaths and the subsequent coverup those deaths – of US servicemen. Where does your loyalty REALLY lie – is a simple question to ask of a person who tries to discount the Liberty incident. Yes… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Carlsdad, I’m curiously cool about the USS Liberty. For some reason it doesn’t ring my bell. Maybe because I have no idea what was going on with that, and can’t relate.

That’s just my reaction- a normie friend and Vietnam vet vigorously defended Israel saying it was a ‘routine’ friendly fire incident.

He stopped talking to me after 20 years of daily calls, too, much later, as I came to realize the holocaust was absurd, lunatic bullsh*t and once explained why. The movie, “Judgement at Nuremberg”, defined his moral universe.

Mike_C
Guest
Mike_C

“a ‘routine’ friendly fire incident.”

Of course it was. A prolonged multiphase attack by multiple aircraft and ships, including rocket fire and aerial strafing, followed by napalm, torpedoes, surface rockets and strafing from a surface craft, happens all the time. And not only in wartime. Why just the other day at the range a fella barely escaped being napalmed due to a simple mistake.

Greatest ally EVAR!

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

Go to http://www.unz.com and just do a search (upper right hand corner) – for “USS Liberty” (include the quotes). You’ll find plenty of reading material Oh yeah, and your Vietnam vet friend thinks it’s OK for the United States to attack a country based on a hyped up incident (we initiated the Tonkin Gulf exchange by firing first) – and where we had no casualties. And yet excuses away a direct UNPROVOKED attack – where there were 34 dead, 171 wounded – and we almost lost a ship? You see that sounds like an almost perfect opportunity to call somebody… Read more »

Franciscan
Guest
Franciscan

I served six years as an enlisted Navy cryptologist, the same guys as the USS Liberty crew, back in the 70s and 80s in the Med. I learned the whole story of the Liberty and more about the Pueblo after my active duty ended. I do recall on one deployment mentioning the Liberty in the presence of a Naval Intelligence lieutenant and getting a stern lecture on our “closest ally”. Anyway, I’m just a working class white guy who loves my people as I expect everyone to love theirs. I’ve got close family that are of partly Jewish descent and… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Ooh. The Pueblo. Still boilin’ mad about that one. Our Guys tortured for 8 months.

That President- accused of being corrupt beyond even Georgia standards, though I never got the details- went on to create the Homes for Welfare Cases, built by church white hands while blacks in Cadillacs watched.

Carter also put Mugabe in power and did the deal to give the torturers nuclear weapons.

“Christian President” my azz.
That ratf**k. Betrayal, rank betrayal.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

He served. I didn’t.
Other sevicemen have said, not unreasonably, that my opinion in such matters carries no water with them.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.

Oldtradesman
Guest
Oldtradesman

In the past I have asked normies that question on numerous occasions. The usual response is along the lines of, “It’s all part of God’s plan.” The fact is that they simply don’t care about the USS Liberty or somebody’s child dying/maimed for Israel. It’s all about rapture and “Beam me up, Scotty!”

Member

Just point out the hypocrisy. It’s not that you’re against Israel or Jewish interests, it’s about fairness.

It doesn’t matter. I’ve learned through experience that any criticism of Israel or Jews at all, even an attempt at even-handed discussion of an issue where the idea might arise that Jews might not in all ways be right about everything begets the accusation of anti-Semite. And the conversation stops there.

Member

Can I assume I’m being downvoted for being an anti-Semite?

Mark Stoval
Guest
Mark Stoval

Not by me. I almost always find your comments spot-on and worth my time to read. I can’t say we always agree on everything, but then I may not always be right. 🙂

Forever Templar
Guest
Forever Templar

Let me introduce you to one Jake Adelstein; Jewish expat and particularly gregarious supporter of the brown hordes invading Japan. Turbo kike. He came to fame by authoring a book entitled “Tokyo Vice”. To which, if believed, he became a reporter and went and did some serious poking around in yakuza business and was utterly surprised when they turned their attention toward him. Kid you not, first 20 pages and the guy cries about antisemitism. It’s been rumored he’s some kind of stringer for the Israeli embassy. And it would fit, his writing output per year is virtually negligible and… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

A salesman of many years told me the best way to lose the sale was to keep talking.

John Smith
Member

I think a lot of you dissidents underestimate yourselves and your effectiveness. Also – I think that many of you suffer from a premature case of defeatism. I come from a pozzed shitlib family where politics DID tear us apart, largely because the morals and ethics that were part and parcel of them. It was awful, but even they are asking questions now – and starting to notice things they tried their best to ignore. Reality will not be denied. Said another way, God (or Darwin and Murphy if you prefer) – will not be mocked. What goes around, eventually… Read more »

HamburgerToday
Guest
HamburgerToday

Interesting observations. It has often been said that the best salesman for the Right is the Left. It’s as if the Right sometimes does not believe in cause-and-effect. Liberalism has been dominant in the West for centuries and as long as that dominance was associated with bourgeois comfort for the middle class, the middle class went along with Liberalism’s program of ‘liberation’ of ‘the oppressed’. But now ‘the oppressed’ have become politically and legally dominant and the middle class is under siege by globalism, the middle class is looking around and realizing that *they* are not ‘the oppressed’ *but nobody… Read more »

james wilson
Member

You are cheering me up, JS. I tend to feel it’s going the other way, but bad news is all to visible while good news remains hidden until it becomes obvious.

Michaeloh
Guest
Michaeloh

Id be cautious of advice which counsels recklessness like infering the JQ is ready for prime time because “ the JQ is discussed in Starbucks.” By all means dissidents, make sure you dont “underestimate yourselves or your effectiveness.” Full speed ahead. Its almost as if a Fed were encouraging the naive to out themselves In the most Charlottsville manner possible.

John Smith
Member

The JQ will not be going mainstream right away – but the edgier lefties are talking about it – in a place that is the bastion of political correctness. The Jewry – if they aren’t very, very careful – are going to find that lefties make excellent cannon fodder and slaves… but lousy allies and masters.

Member
Felix_Krull

Thanks, great post. I think that many of you suffer from a premature case of defeatism. Yes. And on top of that, you have trolls working hard to instill this defeatism in us, the “America is lost”-type of comments. And a lot of those comments – I’m looking at you, Breitbart – are simply fellow white people there to gloat, stroking their members while they fantasize about what they’re going to do once they have whitey enslaved at their feet. Well, it’s not happening on my watch. As Queen Ann said, if whites are so murderously savage, maybe you shouldn’t… Read more »

Bartleby the Scrivner
Guest
Bartleby the Scrivner

Trump in a landslide?
From your mouth to Gods ear.
Clinton was supposed to win in a landslide, and we know how that turned out.
My fear is that they will leave nothing to chance, vis a vis cheating, to take Orange man down.
They won’t be caught with their pant suits down again.
Time will tell.

Remember, a person is smart; people are basically stupid.

Member

The biggest part of becoming “red-pilled” isn’t so much learning about reality, it is about removing the emotional blinders that were put on your head as a child. There is a reason they want to target younger and younger children with their propaganda. As has been noticed before, there is nobody so blind as those who refuse to see. It is literally painful to deal with information that goes against what you feel, especially if you have felt that way since you were young enough to believe in Santa. It will give you a headache. It is just a whole… Read more »

Lineman
Guest
Lineman

Homeschool or bring back one room schoolhouses that were the bedrock of education before the government got involved… Everyone can’t teach but everyone can pitch in to make it happen…

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

Education money needs to follow the student. That will get the government out fairly quickly for most things, because the public schools will have to fight alongside the private for butts in seats. Standardized testing will sort out the wheat from the chaff. The major companies, like ACT, SAT, would love to get into the business of certifying the primary and secondary schools wrt curriculum efforts. This would be little different from today’s tech certification and such. A side benefit would be that the best and brightest move on at their own pace, and folk can get certified, even without… Read more »

Member

I think the private schools are just as bad as the public schools. I have nieces and nephews in private schools and their schedule is literally adjusted to keep them safe and out of the center city before the public school diversity gangs start roaming the streets at 3:00 and they are still in complete denial, especially about race.

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

I will not disagree, but say my thinking was towards academics and discipline. Here, in a State—the most advanced in promoting charter schools and voucher systems—there is a school choice for practically all types and inclinations of students—and more importantly, the parents.

That these schools are poz’d wrt race realism will probably always be the case, but you won’t have Tranny Reading Hour, or male Math Teachers wearing a dress.

c matt
Guest
c matt

Of course, YMMV. True, the poz is present, but a large issue is simply school discipline. Admins are too afraid of parental or ACLU backlash to simply kick the trouble makers out, so they disrupt the rest. Ends up becoming a baby sitting service to deal with reprobates.

Carrie
Guest

Agreed!
When I wonder about my competencies, at least I know I can do one thing, and that’s as a teacher in the one room schoolhouse.
I’m very sure the classroom management would be easier than what it is today….

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

CivNats believe deeply in fairness and the rule of law. Start there. Focus first on areas where society is openly unfair to whites relative to other races. (Also, use Asians as a way to get around their fear sounding racist.)

1. Affirmative action – why is alright to discriminate against white and Asians
2. Advocacy Groups – other groups have advocacy groups, why not whites
3. White Privilege – do poor whites have white privilege; what about Asians privilege
4. Immigration – immigration hurts poor people of any color
5. Pride – if other groups should be proud of their heritage, why not whites

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

Re: ” CivNats believe deeply in fairness and the rule of law. Start there”

Exactly why I brought up the USS Liberty incident and comparing our treatment of Iran vs Israel.

It’s pretty easy to start highlighting the hypocrisies and “unfairness” displayed in the cloud people’s foreign policy – once you start making appropriate comparisons.

You don’t even need to portray the argument as an attack against Israel – but rather as a comparison and argument that maybe we shouldn’t be treating Iran so badly.

“If Israel gets to attack us and get away with it – why can’t Iran?”

HamburgerToday
Guest
HamburgerToday

Also, I like to point out that ethno-genetic nationalism is about love for one’s own people, not hatred for others. I also tell them that separation is the most certain way to eliminate racism because it is not possible for one race to oppress another if they do not live together and share the same political and legal institutions. Most civnats don’t even know their civnats, they have just absorbed a collection of political and cultural dispositions as those dispositions have been radiated by ‘the culture’. Here’s a place where the poverty of modern education actually plays to our advantage.… Read more »

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

Exactly. The vast majority of CivNats are good people just to trying to follow the rules of their society. That’s been turned against them. They won’t get turned in a conversation. Our job isn’t to convince them of anything. It’s to put little cracks in their worldview. Little bits of truth that make them think. Also, I’m serious about the Asian/Indian thing being a great way to get CivNats to think. Blacks are sacred so best to avoid. Jews and Hispanics also don’t much, but whites feel zero guilt for Asians and South Asians. Use it. “Wait, why are there… Read more »

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

Blacks may be sacred as you say, but they are the most outlying group—perhaps aside of Muslims—we have in the US. Hard to avoid in most compare and contrast situations.

I like your idea wrt Asians however. Just never occurred to me. Thanks.

UFO
Guest
UFO

Use blacks if you’re talking to Asians or Hispanics – they don’t have the same obsession that whites do. “Hey, how come blacks get affirmative action but not Asians?”

Sow division among the POC. I’ve done it before. It’s kinda fun. And once the POC sees they have an open ear to speak honestly it’s pretty interesting. Chinese ranting about Indians and vice versa is the most common.

For whites who get starry eyed about the magic negro routine, use asians instead. Especially Indians, nobody likes them lol.

Member

“White Privilege – do poor whites have white privilege; what about Asians privilege”

You are right that the battle has to be an emotional and moral one. The left has fought that battle and won. We need to retake the moral high ground.

One of the big hurdles with your talking point is that a study showed that when whites hear about white privilege they lose concern for the plight of the whites in the working class and poverty. We have to first attack the concept of white privilege.

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

Yep, the concept of White Privilege is pernicious. I point that out to the children whenever the subject comes up—sort of like a follow up inoculation in a series. It helps however, when there is basis to compare and contrast their White Privilege with others not so Privileged. For example, the children all had to work to get through school. Hence they graduated without debt. I always ask them to consider how they were “privileged” to work their asses off and as well as other sorts of things they had the benefit of foregoing while being ”privileged.” It usually takes… Read more »

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

This is such an important conversation. One never converts someone by shaming, but by embracing. The Right has a public image of intolerance and violent prejudice. It is important to demonstrate that we are normal people with a different point of view. A very important way of getting people to listen to us is to explain that it is OK to believe different things, and that our culture has always functioned under a tension, because people bring different perspectives and priorities to the table. The trick is to mediate the tension by promoting the idea that different perspectives are OK.… Read more »

Marko
Guest
Marko

Nothing to add. Totally agree.

Paintersforms
Guest
Paintersforms

Correct is what creates the most happiness for the greatest number. If you think about it, the implications go deep.

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

Incorrect. You’re talking about democracy , where 51% votes for what they want and gets to tell the other 49% to go screw itself. “Correct” in the case of the United States is something akin to what we had in the original form of the Republic – where power was disbursed and many things were simply removed from the realm of government – and were expected to be “solved” thru non governmental means. I once saw somebody describe the operating principle of the US as “live and let live” – because that is the only way where a disparate people… Read more »

Member

Agree

Paintersforms
Guest
Paintersforms

Not politically correct.

Mike_C
Guest
Mike_C

Stockholm, 10pm in an alley: Four feral Somali men and a teenaged Swedish girl. I can think of something that will make 80% of those five people very happy. But i don’t think it’s going to be correct.

Paintersforms
Guest
Paintersforms

Four is not the greatest in a society of millions. Lots of Swedes not happy about it. The Somalis are incorrect.

CAPT S
Guest
CAPT S

GREAT topic. I just had a local “letter to the editor” published … it was exceptionally difficult to write because the audience is mainstream, they’re strangely proud of their plebeian ignorance, and they don’t take too well to the 2×4-to-head arguments of logic/reason. The topic was refugee resettlement. A lot of the older Christians want to help “those poor people,” having seen one too many UNICEF commercials. A lot of the “conservatives” want to help “those loyal interpreters” that helped the Empire. A lot of the liberals want to help “those poor huddled masses who don’t look like me.” I… Read more »

Ant Man Bee
Guest

“The topic was refugee resettlement.” It is very, very, very important to understand… Morally and politically speaking, there is no such thing as “refugee resettlement.” Refugees have no moral or political right to “resettle” ANYWHERE. Refugees, strictly speaking, are the quite temporary victims of a political, military, or environmental crisis in their home countries. They are the recipients of a humanitarian effort to preserve their safety in the face of the specific and temporary crisis. They nominally require “refuge” or “asylum” until, and ONLY until, the temporary crisis has resolved, at which time they must be repatriated to their home… Read more »

Member

You, sir, win this week’s Zman Order of Merit…with oak leaf cluster and diamonds.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Gotta say, Marko won the Internet yesterday with:

“Because they don’t want the Jews to subvert their advanced civilization, duh”

Too bad the awards aren’t
*cough* related *cough*

Wordly Wiseman
Guest
Wordly Wiseman

i sincerely hope you never get to experience the joy and happiness of being a refugee.

FashGordon
Guest
FashGordon

This type of thinking is what our enemies fear the most. It’s why they censor anyone even remotely capable of pushing the overton window towards our side. This is definitely the way forward, it’s why they worked so hard to stymie us during the last big push by promoting fifth column people within our ranks to create dissension and infighting. We need to quietly increase our numbers until an opportunity presents itself that we can exploit for an actual big gain in changing the mindset of the masses. We had the bandwagon effect in 2016 and that was a massive… Read more »

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

Yep, there’s a lot of “I Know A Good One” out there, but note that using that rebuttal presupposes/concedes there are bad ones out there. From there the argument is a matter of degree/proportions/causes among racial groupings. Baby steps.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Baby steps of the Overton window, aka shifting the frame of the acceptable.

My big fails are when I don’t let someone show off *their* smarts, letting them think out loud explaining to me. Bad listener.

Michaeloh
Guest
Michaeloh

Regarding the “I know a good one” i have had good luck making the pit bull argument; you know that most dog bites human attacks in the US are caused by pit bulls though they are only a fraction of all dogs; say you have a neighbor/coworker/sibling etc with a lovable, gentle pit bull; is it wise to allow the grand children to play in a back yard with pit bulls?

TheLastStand
Guest

Another thing that helps our numbers is the fact that once you come over to our side, our adversaries treat you as irredeemable.

Besides, just like the arrow in the FedEx logo, once you notice the propaganda, you cannot unnotice it.

Member

There’s an arrow in the FedEx logo? I’m failing this eye test. It’s just Fed in white butted up against Ex in orange….

ETA: Oh, FFS, I just saw it. I am now a case study.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Ha! Quick quiz, everbody, where is the disappearing arrow in the Fedex logo?

Spoiler: it’s between the ‘e’ and the ‘x’.

Doofenshmertz Evil, Inc.
Guest

Duh.

Now take a closer look at the Amazon logo, with its curved arrow linking A to Z.

Good persuasive unconscious visual design really is worth its weight in gold. Both El Lissitzky and Fritz Lang knew that.

Take note, dissenters. Cultivate your talent.

Yves Vannes
Member

I’ve found playing the race card by embracing the diversity card to be effective with normies: “I actually support affirmative action. In an increasingly multicultural society group interest organizations seem to be a natural thing. Here in this (city, town, university, high school) we have many organizations that are organized around group identity and they pursue the interests of that particular group and their position in the (society, town, university). There are local black interest groups and local Hispanic group interests, as well as national interests. There are similar organizations for Asians and Jew and all sorts of other ethnic… Read more »

Member

That’s good. I also like saying White Community instead of white people. It seems to resonate.

And for some weird reason voice text capitalizes White Community but not white people.

Doofenshmertz Evil, Inc.
Guest

“I also like saying White Community instead of white people.”

Good idea.

How about also talking about the divergent interests of the Crime Community and the Crime Victim Community? Or, more sharply, the Rape Community and the Rape Victim Community?

Yves Vannes
Member

One little step at a time.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

More good framing, DE.
Whitney’s just given us the key to translate Identity into normie.

Using “Community” short-circuits their defensive “don’t label me!” reaction, too.

Yves Vannes
Member

Good point. White Community sounds better.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Oooh. White Community.
I really, really likee.

Plus, that’s speaking in Leftie, the official language of our empire.

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

The occasional slipped in “our people” alongside “white” when discussing race seems to be helpful. You can actually watch the person go from slightly confused or uncomfortable on the first slipped in “our people” to not noticing it after several tactical insertions of it.

Wolf Barney
Guest
Wolf Barney

I haven’t listened yet, but this is a very important topic. We need numbers and the patriotic, yet misguided Hannity/Rush-folks should be on our side. One thing I try to do is explain the 1965 Hart-Celler Immigration Act, along with the ‘24 Act and the 1790 Naturalization Act. Virtually everyone I talk to has no idea about our immigration history. They think the increase in diversity is solely due to illegal immigration. It’s important to plant the idea in their heads that the ethnic composition of America was very important and we didn’t think diversity was a strength in the… Read more »

KGB
Guest
KGB

Exactly what I just came here to write. This is a topic on which the DR community needs to really pitch in and help each other. Please share anything you’ve said, any slant you’ve taken, that has proven effective.

Member

As a Gen Xer growing up in the 80s it can be hard to remember when “diversity” was restricted to a few large cities and the south.

Doofenshmertz Evil, Inc.
Guest

As a fellow Gen-Xer, I was actually witness to the real-time conceptual slippage which led from Diversity 1.0, White Normie Bien-Pensant Edition, to Diversity 3.0, Hate-Fuelled Anti-White Genocide Edition. Here is what I saw happen, beginning with my studies at Most Prestigious University back in the 1980s: 1. In an earlier time, prior to the civil rights movement, the segregationist Jim Crow regime was very real, it was very cruel and brutal, and it very much had to be stopped. Thankfully it was stopped. But let us not forget that it was real. 2. Even growing up during the 1970s… Read more »

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

Doofenshmertz Evil, Inc.: You start from a flawed premise or presupposition which you state as absolute truth (Jim Crow was brutal, institutional racism was still noticeable and palpable in the 70s, etc.). I reject both those assertions. I went through school in the 60s and 70s and finished college in 1980. I dealt with public schools integrated by purportedly ‘midddle-class’ black kids. I saw those purportedly smart black women at college. Again, I reject your assertions.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

The real story here is the bait-and-switch by Most Prestigious University.

jkloi
Guest
jkloi

I also reject assertions 3-5. This was lying and ultimately cheating smart kids due to the fact that our education leaders rejected teaching and instead went through to manipulation. There was nothing good or decent in any of it.

LineInTheSand
Guest
LineInTheSand

I try to suggest to normies the observation that most caused me abandon conventional politics: Non-whites, as a group, are tribal in a way that most whites cannot imagine.

Conservatives and old-school liberals hope that we’re all going to become color blind.

Instead of that we get, for example, “conservative” black Reps like JC Watts who still wants affirmative action for blacks or “conservative” Hispanic Reps like Marco Rubio who still want massive immigration of their kind.

After enough such cases, with few counters, one concludes that non-whites generally put tribe above values and cannot do otherwise.

Member

It can be frustrating to try to talk to normies but we such we all were at one time. We will never convert our people in massive numbers under the present age but creating a small, committed core is what we will need to rebuild. It seems more and more people are slowly waking up but a critical juncture might come next week when the 2nd Amendment folks, many who are /ourguys/ hold their demonstration in Richmond, Virginia. It has a lot of promise of a serious show of force but it also has a lot of potential to turn… Read more »

G Lordon Giddy
Guest
G Lordon Giddy

One of the best things to do for normie is just lead good lives and be normal.
Then throw out the red pills on occasion.
But that does not work if we are ne’er do wells and live the bohemian life styles.
We have to live like we want a normal civilization and get involved in community.
Then when we point people to a Z Man or a VDare or many others out there it is more likely to work.

Lineman
Guest
Lineman

We have to live like we want a normal civilization and get involved in community…
Exactly right but if your surrounded by people who aren’t like you or hate you then getting involved in their Community only helps them which is why I advocate for building our own Communities so we are helping and strengthening our own people…

G Lordon Giddy
Guest
G Lordon Giddy

I agree, i used to go help teach inner city youths basic skills until I started noticing not one black male got involved helping their own community. With the exception of one black lady the entire help the inner city youth project was made up of white church people.
The black male and the black parents must be willing to help their own and many times they are not.
It is too easy to blame whitey.
So yes, by getting involved in community I meant a community that we know appreciates us and wants and needs us.

The Right Doctor
Guest
The Right Doctor

My wife and I sponsored a child from Kenya whom my wife met on a mission trip when the girl was 12. That was twenty years ago. She went to college and grad school in the US, then went home to teach. She told me that when she was at school (at a Christian college in Florida) she would volunteer to go help the local blacks. Three comments stand out: “They were richer than I’ve ever been.” “I was always the only black person helping.” “No-one would help us. Grown men would watch me struggle with a heavy box” (of… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Nah, ya done some good in the world, Doc.
She went back, facing machetes in her future, and she was red-pilled before we were.

Your story is what America used to mean.
Past is past.

I refuse to judge the past by the present, that’s what lefties are mired in.
Not your fault the change was forced.
I wish we could go back there too.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

With Arthur Sido’s Richmond in mind, above, let me repeat bilejone’s great contribution:

http://raconteurreport.blogspot.com/2020/01/common-sense-resistance.html?m=1

I like this because:

1. It uses what we have.
2. It gives normie something to grasp.
3. It organizes real political involvement.
4. It’s the seed of other fraternal benefit societies.

The Christians, for example, are a self-contained Community within the larger “community”, thriving at times because of their focus on the personal, with a loyalty to the greater.

Heck, we whites built all of these institutions. Let us resurrect what works and is there, infusing it with new life.

XY
Guest
XY

I have never seen anyone convinced by anyone over politics ever. Political belief is a subset of physiognomy and there are simply too few people as a percentage of the population with the physiognomy required to have beliefs outside of the norms. The future of this country is South Africa (pessimistic) or Brazil (optimist). Trying to convince people who aren’t already on the path toward dissident politics is a waste of time. The only thing to be done is keep your head down, work and make money, to try to get out of this global capitalist Jewish controlled hellscape.

TheLastStand
Guest

No fate but what we make.

Wkathman
Guest
Wkathman

Wish I could disagree with XY, but I strongly suspect he is right. It’s very difficult not to be black-pilled these days.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Kunstler, today:

“Remember this eternal paradox of the human condition: people get what they deserve, not what they expect.”

Mark Taylor
Guest
Mark Taylor

All of us were convinced somehow. And ethno-centrism is the norm in history. It took a lot of propaganda to get us where we are today.

I think we are selling something very easy to buy.

Member
Felix_Krull

I have never seen anyone convinced by anyone over politics ever.

I’m not sure that’s true. You might not witness the heureka-moment directly because in the heat of political discourse, a guy may not want to admit that the opponent has a legitimate point. But when he gets home, he might mull it over and at some point that time-delayed fuse hits the detonator, and by then, maybe he doesn’t even remember what set it burning in the first place.

After all, most of us in here weren’t born redpilled.

Chet Rollins
Guest
Chet Rollins

The most effective rhetorical weapon I’ve seen with regards to Human biodiversity isn’t talking about crime rates, IQ, and other things. Those topics will make most people immediately shut their minds off and go into thought-crime mode.
However, say something along the lines of “They’re just born different, and that’s okay”, and you trigger all the logical connections implicitly, and it’s very hard for them to resist.

Mike_C
Guest
Mike_C

“They’re just born different, and that’s okay” Exactly. One thing I sometimes do (with sports fan type guys — which BTW I totally don’t get) is to point out West African dominance in sprinting and jumping sports, East Africans in the marathon, and so forth. They generally happily nod along. Then when we’ve established some common ground, slip in that since THOSE differences are clear, perhaps there may be OTHER group differences. Responding to your comment because when sports normie starts looking uncomfortable, all I say is “It’s okay to NOTICE.” Don’t need to hammer each point home on the… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Funny, I was talking with a black friend, along with a group of other blacks in Baltimore.

We were talking about shaving.

He, a tad guiltily, looked at me and said, “I don’t want to be racist, but…”

“…a lot of black dudes don’t shave because razors make our skin break out in little bumps.”

I chuckled and said, “it’s okay to be racial, brah, we’re all different”, the others nodded, and we kept chatting about skin care products.

The Right Doctor
Guest
The Right Doctor

Pseudofolliculitis barbae. Saw lots of it as an Army doc. Profiles for shaving (permission to wear the kind of long stubble / short beards that bump-fighter razors leave behind (they have a sort of cow-catcher). But, dammit, that was the ONLY difference in GIs. We were all green.

Lars
Guest
Lars

Former Army Engineer Officer here. How about the Muslim MD who went on a shooting rampage at Ft Hood? Or the MesoAmerican color-wearing gang members who enlist in the infantry only for the weapons training? Or the Black female caucus at West Point, un-uniformly attired, raising their clenched fists in the black power ( or go grrl, I don’t know ) salute in front of the historic central barracks. Or women being held to significantly lower cambat fitness standards or being individually “coached” by male NCOs in order to pass Ranger school. Once, as a young company commander I was… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Then, Doc. Then.

james wilson
Member

Or say Germans and Italians are born different, which truly they are, and we appreciate each for different reasons. We don’t buy Italian cars or German designs. 50 more small steps to Africans don’t do algebra, so don’t make them.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

You bet, james, and Germans and Italians take delight in their differences.

Nice way to baby-step “differences are OK” in. Half my relatives are Basque, and they revel in it.

Another good one is by state, say, Tennessee Volunteers compared to Maine Lobsters. ‘Scuse me, Lobstahs.

Paintersforms
Guest
Paintersforms

Simple , relatable, concrete arguments. Why get married if not starting a family? Gay couples don’t make babies. Babies are the future. Therefore gay marriage makes no sense. Civil union for benefits but marriage has more important purpose. Are you glad your mother didn’t abort you? Etc. Statistics also useful as long as you don’t get lost in them. Helps suburban normie realize most diversity or weirdness he sees is on the screen. Also car accidents kill as many as guns. Then about 2/3 guns deaths are suicide, most others are cops/criminals. Normie doesn’t get scared driving yet he’s far… Read more »

BadThinker
Guest
BadThinker

Have not listened yet, but how do you get past the ‘I love the military and police’ attitude of so many. There are so many normiecons that are *proud* that their sons and daughters are dying in mercenary tribal wars that our tribe has no business being involved in (and proud that they themselves ‘served’ in Korea, Iraq 1/2, Afganistan, etc). None of those wars defended the American people and made America safer…

Paintersforms
Guest
Paintersforms

I’d stress needless loss of life. Nobody serves to die for a bad cause. Avoid criticism of military/police. Keep in mind most are decent people. Much championing is because of lefty hatred.

BadThinker
Guest
BadThinker

But the Hannitycons are insistent that they *are dying for a good cause*. To them, fighting Persia and Babylon is pretty much a Biblical injunction, and if not, it’s to help ‘bring the light of freedom to the world’ or ‘to civilize the barbarians’…

Paintersforms
Guest
Paintersforms

Ask the soldiers about that. Or put normie on the spot and ask him why it is. Ask for a name whose life was worth it. If you can’t convert there’s always the third party listening.

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

I just go straight to questioning their patriotism. Since they obviously don’t understand jack shit about the intentions of the people who founded this country.

Like I said above: tell them to go find a revolutionary war soldier’s grave – and take a piss on it.

And also tell them to stop telling me how much of a patriot and “constitutional conservative” you are – because you are not.

Might as well drive the shiv in right to the core.

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

I did this to a younger military vet a number of years back – who had “served” while the US was involved over in Yugoslavia – and just couldn’t kick the mental conditioning that the US’s role in the world was to be a global policeman. There was an online argument going on about whether or not we (the US) should continue to be involved overseas (Mideast) and continue to supply massive amounts of “foreign aid” – to Israel. If I remember correctly – we were coming up on the July 4th holiday. He kept arguing about how “only the… Read more »

Paintersforms
Guest
Paintersforms

Right. The long occupation of the Middle East has made a lot soldiers rethink things.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Find agreement.
“I wish they were defending OUR border”.

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

BadThinker: That’s a hard one. My husband (army brat) has really done an about face, because we keep bombarding him with examples of “official force” arbitrarily used against Whites. I just showed him the Daily Mail blurb today about the White guys arrested for badthink re the Virginia rally. He wanted to know who arrested them – “authorities.” He snorted at “specific charges sealed by the judge Joi Taylor.” He still retains residual “muh rule of law” leanings, but he’s learning really fast.

Mark Taylor
Guest
Mark Taylor

Argue the politics of the wars. Who’s benefitting, who’s paying the price. Don’t say the soldiers are mercenaries or something like that. Those guys think they are doing what they should. In many ways their patriotism is used against them.

HomerB
Guest
HomerB

Talking with an elderly relative recently (we’ll call him “Norm”), I (call me “RPM” for Red Pill Man) brought up a red pill info bit: “Did you hear that abortion can take place in New York right up to the moment of birth? The governor here got a round of applause for that one.” Norm: I can’t believe that! That can’t be true! RPM: All true. Norm: Something like that can’t happen in this country. You’ll have to prove it to me! RPM: Check your In Box later. Norm: I intend to! RPM: I sent a nice, Normie source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/01/30/new-york-abortion-law-liberal-leaders-celebration-death-life-column/2670049002/… Read more »

Mike_C
Guest
Mike_C

“I can’t believe that! That can’t be true!“

Yeah, I get that quite often. One problem is that no few of the older ones won’t believe something unless it’s in the New York Times (America’s paper of record!) or similar legacy source. That the NYT is run by people who hate us (including Norm) is also not believable to poor Norm. Frustrating.

Lineman
Guest
Lineman

I hear you both Brothers…I was at dinner with a bunch of older folks the other night and everyone of them was frustrated with what was going on but instead of what can we do and where can we help it was I’m going to enjoy my time left and hopefully die before it all falls apart and of course the obligatory I’m sorry for you and your kids and our kids and grandkids…I just had to keep my mouth shut because I didn’t know them that well to let them have it…

HomerB
Guest
HomerB

My neighbor, recently deceased in his 90’s – was a lineman, Lineman. Before that his ‘office’ was a caboose (when they had those). I too hear this theme, with a dollop of rose colored glasses, denial, and apathy. My wife has spent many hours on the phone fixing a screw up in our health coverage – too many hours to list. My daughter, a sole proprietor in her mid 20’s pays some $500.00 per month for health “insurance” (what they used to call “catastrophic coverage”). Yet when I mentioned my daughter’s cost to my elderly but still sentient elderly mother,… Read more »

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

More interesting would be to know whether they had children. Progeny make all the difference. When you have children, or at least have strong ties to your nation and community, your responsibilities never end.

BadThinker
Guest
BadThinker

The problem is that they’re busy working to break that. Hence “daycare” and other things to separate kids from parenta (and grandparents).

Nicholas Digger, Sr.
Guest
Nicholas Digger, Sr.

@Lineman,
What’s wrong with enjoying the decline? I consider myself to be a dissident’s dissident, but I’m only one person. I will do what I can within my abilities (I’m not tactful and I’m terrible at pissing on someone’s back and convincing them that it’s raining), but I am not optimistic about this country’s future.

HomerB
Guest
HomerB

Mike_C,

I hear you, it can be frustrating, but also a challenge to know your material. Yes, when the lies of the media are accepted, whole cloth as the prevailing “truth” – and the truth, stated results in doubts – right there you have a chance to move a Normie closer to the pill colored Red.

And I am not one to declare that my seniors, or yours should just be waiting for their appointment with the Soylent Green department. They still vote, have disposable income, and impact other people.

The Right Doctor
Guest
The Right Doctor

Hey! I have an AOL address. I tell young eye-rollers that I have such because I’m an early adopter: I got email in 1994 when I knew a grand total of two other people who had it. It’s free, it works, what the hell.

HomerB
Guest
HomerB

Another tack I take goes like this: RPM: Don’t you think that bringing in people from other countries based on their “best and brightest” is immoral? Normie: We only want the best here! RPM: Yeah, but think of it. By taking their “best and brightest”, aren’t we actually draining their countries of the very people that are needed to make it a better place to live? Normie I hadn’t thought of it that way. RPM: So we take away jobs for American kids, hand them to the “best and brightest” foreigners. While also burying those same kids in debt for… Read more »

ExNativeSon
Guest
ExNativeSon

Great topic, great comments, and good luck. I found it interesting that Z talked about looking at this topic as you would if you were a college teacher holding class. As a former college teacher and seeing what was occurring rapidly in my last years in academia I found the analogy amusing to say the least. Unlike many of the people here I know few if any libertarians or civic nationalists. I was and the people I know/knew are left wing and I have simply turned people against me with any discussion of any thing of importance. Mostly now I… Read more »

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

We’ve all been there, more or less. Work on bringing others, one by one, out of the suffocating environment they live in today, as you have lived. It is rewarding work, even if you can’t share what you are doing with most of the people you have contact with.

Doing the right thing is it’s own reward.

Mike_C
Guest
Mike_C

“not knowing how to shut up and walk away when he had one of his few victories”

Yeah, that’s a tough one. I’ve started thinking of these sorts of conversations as analogous to opening a container that you don’t want to destroy. That is, the tool you’re using is a wedge, and you’re opening the container by degrees. Patience and self restraint. The info dump-turned-rant (done a few of those, sorry to admit – leaves the other party looking at you wide-eyed) is a sledge hammer. Satisfying to wield, but destroys too much.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Good stuff, Mike C.
“opening a container that you don’t want to destroy.”

Member

The US has de Facto hate-speech laws, at least in some cases. Instead of charging you with hate-speech, they charge you with a more generic crime like disturbing the peace or harassment and then add a hate-crime enhancement to the minor BS crime they can charge you with, which of course, upgrades it to a felony. If you call someone the magic word, well, you are harassing that person and since you are motivated by “hate,” you get a hate-crime “enhancement.”

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

All hate crimes work the way you described. They are the same as domestic violence. One must have an underlying criminal infraction. So, if two persons are having a loud argument, you have disturbing the peace—but if they are in a domestic relationship, you have “domestic violence”. No one goes to jail for saying what they think here, only for crossing the boundaries wrt to a crime that can normally be charged to anyone who keeps their mouth shut or has no demonstrable racial animosity. This is different than say in the UK and other countries. You can be charged… Read more »

Member

That is why I said they are de facto and not de jure.

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

Perhaps I misunderstand, but my interpretation was that you implied that such crimes (hate) can be charged at whim. The only ones I see charged/proven directly link back to stupidity on the part of the perpetrator wrt evidence of racial malice intent. That evidence is most often is provided out of the mouth of the perp. Barring that, enhanced sentencing is a hard thing to argue in mixed race crime.

I don’t believe in hate crimes, period. One should only be responsible/punished for their actions as prosecutors and judges are not mind readers.

Member

Well, you are right in the sense that if you upload a YT video that says muzzies suck, they can’t really do anything to you, whereas in the UK they can throw in jail for it.
The problem is that outside of such circumstances, the police can charge you with a BS crime that you didn’t really commit, like harassment and then add on the hate-crime enhancement. I end up seeing examples of it a lot. Of course, they only go in one direction, against whites.
Hate crimes are complete bullshit and by any reasonable interpretation of US law are unconstitutional.

Serenderpity
Guest
Serenderpity

Compsci ‘s a little naive.
In the UK and other countries you generally recieve a fine and not jail time.
US you lose your job so…

BadThinker
Guest
BadThinker

And you are blackballed from other jobs.

Drake
Guest
Drake

When my crazy leftist extended family talks about the wonders of sponsoring single mother immigrants from a shithole – I ask “what value will she contribute to my state, town, country, or society? Please explain, I don’t understand.”
The true lefty freaks of course. But my normie brother gets a look in his eyes like he’s considering something for the first time.

james wilson
Member

My second son was 35 at the time and the best example of human you will find, but pozzed by the general culture. I told him that importing Northeast Africans was a disaster for Americans because IQ is inherited and their IQ was 70. Their nine children all on welfare would themselves always be on welfare and my son’s children would wonder what he had been thinking. He simply could not believe what I was saying but claimed he would research it. Even Google could not steer him away from the truth and he admitted to it, unhappily, but truths… Read more »

Mark Taylor
Guest
Mark Taylor

That and I like to point out when it’s time for college or job selection that immigrant will be selected over their own children.

Drake
Guest
Drake

Maybe – if they decide to leave the Dole. If not, your taxes, medical expenses, insurance, a piece of everything you pay for will be marked up so imported parasites can live comfortably.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

That’s it, Mark Taylor, the atom bomb, the Holy Grail, what matters the most.

Drake
Guest
Drake

Not sure if it’s senility or just doing what it takes to win over Democrats in 2020, but Bernie has really changed his tune. He used to be a closed border guy who, like the old-time union leaders, recognized that flooding the country with cheap labor would destroy the incomes of the people he was supposed to represent.
Maybe he gave up on the working guys and realized the future of socialism is over-educated, under-employed urbanites.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Soros told him how it was going to be…

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

Or he’s just another compromised pol. His wife skated in a bank fraud case that I’m sure he’d like forgotten.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Or both 🙂

c matt
Guest
c matt

Haven’t listened to the podcast yet, but a while back Z-Man made a good point in another one about immigration red-pilling. It went something like the normie saying wouldn’t it be great if we had universal health care? The DR response would be “yeah, that would be great, but then we would have to do something about all this immigration – we can’t have both.” The tactic being to take one of their cherished positions, and point out how that is incompatible with another cherished position. With diversity, I think one that might work would be to say sure, diversity… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

“like a China Town or Little Italy, having a few little Mayberrys around isn’t such a bad thing either.”

A tweeter, “Rich”, calls that “7-11 nationalism”, as in, remember when you and your gal could go to a 7-11 for a Coke at 2 am on a Saturday night, and it wasn’t a perilous adventure at risk of life and limb.

Member

You know, the use of the term ‘echolalic babbling’ to describe the Civic Nat talking points is the most apt phrase I have seen in awhile. I’m just going to post the definition of echolalia for anyone that doesn’t know it

meaningless repetition of another person’s spoken words as a symptom of psychiatric disorder.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Echo chamber– of an imagined Community.

We hoot and call, the response will tell us if we’re amidst sympathetic allies or surrounded by strangers.

The lonely mating call of the vanishing Normie, in other words.

Avast, the Left offers street orgies and hookups. Eeking and ooking will suffice.

R. Tobey
Guest
R. Tobey

Long time lurker here. I’ve never seen anyone’s politics be swayed by persuasion. I’ve had conversations with people who are, quite frankly, people who should have been on the lunatic ramp some time ago, but they cannot bring themselves to criticize anything Donald Trump has or has not done. These are folks who were convinced Obama was a Muslim from Kenya, when I tell them that all Trump has done is pass a tax cut they become hysterical. Pointing to how the economy is great, and that unemployment is so low. Never mind that they dismissed those arguments when they… Read more »

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

Perhaps they get “hysterical” because you short change Trump. There of course is the tax cut, but also the China trade deal, the a North American trade deal, and the pulling out of the trans-Atlantic Partnership, and the Paris Climate accord. And let’s not forget the stock market, the Supreme Court, and lower Federal Courts. At last count he’s appointed 25% of the Fed Court positions. These may not be all one would want, but they are remarkably better than before with our last three presidents. As far as elimination of illegal immigration and the border wall, both proceed at… Read more »

james wilson
Member

Small point mostly off topic, Obamas origins, while Hawaiian, are, like Quantum Physics, stranger than we can imagine. That’s why he never discouraged the Kenyan theory or any other.

Lorenzo
Guest
Lorenzo

“This is why I think Trump may be a net negative, he’s allowing people to wallow in delusions about where the country is going.”

Who might be a net positive? I know, I know, can’t vote our way out of this and so forth. But what do you recommend we do this coming November, given that Honkeyopia won’t be up and running by then?

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

Just answered a call from the RNCC. I let the Nice White Lady give her spiel, and then calmly answered (with no 4 letter words or ethnic slurs) “I think the Republicans are losers who’ve conserved nothing, and I want both parties to go down in flames.” Then I hung up. For me, that’s exercising self control and restraint while making my point.

Member

The whole legal vs illegal immigration bs is just an example of how public dialogue has become infested with sophistry/emotional rhetoric. There is very little you can discuss in public when it comes to just about any political topic that is not just overwhelmed with sophistry and emotional rhetoric. It is absolutely impossible to discuss a subject with somebody who has embraced the sophistry. You cannot talk about a subject with someone who has been manipulated with emotion. You are never talking about the thing. You are talking about how someone is made to feel about the thing. It is… Read more »

Member

I am not a “citizen” of America. I am an American ethnically. Empires have citizens. This talk about citizens being like stockholders or owners in a corporation is flawed fundamentally. It is much more akin to being a member of a family. You want things to go well for your family not for selfish reasons (at least not entirely), but because they are family. There is no externalized reason. It is entirely internal. This thinking about citizenship vs national is exactly where the whole thing falls apart. It’s getting a foundational point wrong. We are not citizens, we are members… Read more »

Paintersforms
Guest
Paintersforms

I completely agree. The difficulty with America is that it’s tied up with the Enlightenment and ideas about creating a reason-based society. To admit America is a nation is to admit the American experiment failed (or was a bait and switch), even though nationalism was always a part of the equation.

As wise as the founders were, you wonder sometimes if they really thought it through, or if they were grifters. Not a comforting thought.

Member

Part of it has to do with the fact that the idea that the Americans were a people was so obvious to everyone at the time that it went without saying. Despite that, they still ended up writing about our being a British people and our British brethren and to ourselves and our posterity. The vast majority of people in America were either British or German and even the Germans were a fairly small minority at the time. I posted a comment that didn’t show up about how all of our public conversations are poisoned with emotional rhetoric and sophistry… Read more »

BadThinker
Guest
BadThinker

The FTN guys did a good show about that. The ‘founding fathers’ were far more pozzed than the rest of the Americans, which is why we got the first few immigration and naturalization bills to go our way.

http://fashthenation.com/2019/12/ftn-focus-sellout-nation/

Paintersforms
Guest
Paintersforms

They made a lot of compromises for union’s sake. That required the Paines and Jeffersons and that ilk. Not unlike Lincoln and the abolitionists, not unlike today really. Lots of radicals to keep happy. Hanging together with people who want to break up. Makes you wonder if immigration is a way of uniting people against the new boogeyman, because it’s obvious Americans aren’t compatible with each other.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

“The difficulty with America is that it’s tied up with the Enlightenment and ideas about creating a reason-based society.”

I always wondered why people b*tched about the Enlightenment.

Now I get it. I finally get it:

“akin to being a member of a family. You want things to go well for your family not for selfish reasons (at least not entirely), but because they are family. There is no externalized reason.”

Paintersforms
Guest
Paintersforms

Same here. I still like reason though. Very useful for a lot of things but it has to be balanced by sentiment when it comes to human affairs. Natural science is great, social science not so much.

The idea that people can be reasoned into behaving is absurd. At best it takes rhetoric, at worst force.

Stina
Guest
Stina

Reason also breaks down when commonly held assumptions undergirding reason are no longer commonly held assumptions.

One guy I was debating couldn’t even understand why he should care about family. At that point, you can’t have a debate. It is sociopathy when you can’t buy into the common values of the society.

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

Stina – While doing my occasional skim through the headlines at the Daily Mail, I pointed out to my husband a case where a married White mother of two White children died giving birth to a friend’s child she had volunteered to carry. He agreed that being ‘nice’ to her friend and leaving her own children motherless was not God’s will, and neither was renting out her womb. Society today is pure socipathy, and I want no part of it.

BadThinker
Guest
BadThinker

Alisa Rosenbaum has done as much damage to our society as any Marxist. She told young conservatives that family didnt matter.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

OMG Badthinker, you just nuked the libertarian individualist in me.

Would I indulge in the family living room when the kids are around?

Absolutely Not.

That must be the difference.
“Adult” vices versus family settings- which takes priority?

Member

I always look forward to the music at the end of the show. But this week I am rather perplexed by the choice. Omnia is the musical personification of internationalism. Their songs are sung in English, French, Breton, Finnish, German, Dutch, Swedish, Latin, and Hindi, and play Celtic harp, mouth harp, hurdy-gurdy, bodhrán, guitar, bouzouki, didgeridoo, flutes of all kinds, bagpipes, various drums and percussion instruments.(from Wikipedia). Of course they really need to harp on the Persian and Indian parts. Interesting sounding song, but I am sure the members of this band would love to see us exiled or otherwise… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Whew! The Zman must be cleverly trolling his more astute, cosmopolitan listeners.

Make Og’s bony, protruding brow furrow in thought.

Og lost. Og not know.

James O'Meara
Guest
James O'Meara

“All the ways into it were narrow and went passed people that most people would find odd. It’s why they could never break out of their subculture.” There’s something to that, but then… what about Trump? Outside of the impeachment nonsense, he really is what the Left says he is: an orange haired dirtbag. From Spy MAGAzine to Howard Stern to WWF, he spent 40+ years in the media as a freak (unlike, say, Bill Clinton in 1992). He’s the most un-evangelical person in America (remember his “Two Corinthians” gaffe? He’s probably never read the Bible in his life), yet… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

I awoke this morning thinking, “the Zman is a historian”, one who can describe the sweep of history as it occurs.

And we all like seeing our place in history.

HamburgerToday
Guest
HamburgerToday

Agreed. Persuasion entails working from where the audience already is to coax/seduce them to move closer to your own.

Member

“You’re not harming someone if you say you don’t want to live next to them, or I don’t want to live in that kind of neighborhood. You’re not causing them any harm. In fact, you’re doing them a service, because they don’t want you around them, either. They don’t want to be around people who are not like them, and you don’t want to be around people who are not like you. So why would you force yourself into their world or vice versa?” This may seem reasonable to you, but it represents the fundamental disagreement of the civil rights… Read more »

Member

Speaking of immigration and normies, check out the bait-and-switch going on at Taki’s. Taki used to run columns by Tucker Carlson, then it was “collaborative” columns by Tucker Carlson and Neil Patel. In the past few weeks, it’s just been Patel. And, now, wonder of wonders, Patel is coming out in favor of an immigration plan that will favor more smart people who look like him, but give them all the rights of native born Americans — strictly for the benefit of native-born Americans, you understand. https://www.takimag.com/article/everyone-is-wrong-on-skilled-immigration/ The idea that America already has a sufficient native born talent pool to… Read more »

Member

I noticed that.
I used to think highly of the little Greek but I guess that his daughter is responsible for what his site has become.

Member

Yeah, and the other day it was Cole railing at us to embrace the porn industry because there’s a lot of Trump supporters there.

My feeling on that is if I have to embrace soul-killing degeneracy to win, I’d rather see it all burn.

BadThinker
Guest
BadThinker

Porn is a huge problem, it might be one of the biggest. The fact it is “free” seems to be a gigantic red flag that it is an op being run on us by the usual suspects…

Yves Vannes
Member

Taki’s daughter on her impression of India:

“For all India’s flaws, and contradictions, Indians are warm, and unassuming, and not nearly as scary to me as Westerners. Ironically, I felt more trusting of Indians knowing they might be trying to cheat me, than of gringos dressed up as do-gooders. What I liked most about my trip was being surrounded by so many of them. Indians are elegant, and well-dressed. They have a superior sense of style, color, and perfume.”

Member

and perfume

To cover up that heinous body odor.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Ghee (rancid butter), goat curds, and curry will do that for ya.

Oh, and a copious lack of water.

Our H1B IT geniuses never figured out plumbing, something the Romans solved in 200 BC.

BadThinker
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BadThinker

Proper ghee is just what we in the west call clarified butter (the fat without the milk sugars). And we make *that* better than india does too.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

No wonder poor Taki talks about how much he enjoys his… grandchildren.

Member

I’ve never really noticed the “unassuming” part, at least not among the higher caste Indians. The lower caste folk seem all right, because they’re not used to lording it over people. When we were young my wife cleaned houses and one of her clients for a while was a wealthy Indian couple — doctor and lawyer combo, if I remember correctly. Of all her clients, they were the ones who treated her with condescension, like “the help.”

Over my many years working in silicon valley tech, I’ve noticed the same condescension in other high status Indians. I find it very off-putting.

Alzaebo
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Alzaebo

I think that explains the educated jihadis or radicals phenomenon.

Welcoming whites accept the talented tenth. But, that tenth opens the door to their own lower classes- because that buoys their status within a community of their own.

BadThinker
Guest
BadThinker

They are the Worst (i have to work with many) . Especially because so many of them are complete morons. But the get placed into positions of power because confidence = competence in our insane business world.

Ifrank
Guest

This is crucial. Early on in a conversation you must make sure that your interlocutor understands that the MSM is untrustworthy. You can have daily 30 minute persuasive conversation with someone, but if they then go back to school, read the Times, or watch television, all your efforts will be undone. They must be shown clearly and concretely that what the media is providing to them is propaganda.

Ifrank
Guest

It would be helpful to have good books to recommend, also.

Major Hoople
Member
Major Hoople

At some point, the reality of becoming a minority in your own country is going to sink in, and the realization is not going to be pleasant. In NY, for example, we’ve got the Democrats doing everything they can to disarm white people, and at the same time, pushing the limits on letting criminals out without bail. At times I might despair of white people seeing the light. Yet they will, because they will have no choice, and those who refuse to see, won’t be survivors. We are fated to live as an “angry, resentful, nativist minority” as one garbage… Read more »

Member

Important Z Man post. The lack of interest in building connections with normies was a glaring weakness of the alt right. It was clear that they were doomed to failure. Their obsession with hating the boomers who should have been a great source of allies (even if only 10 percent of boomers became sympathetic,) was clearly a missed opportunity. The desire to spend your time attacking potential allies rather than build bridges probably comes out of internet culture and shit posting. The solution involves dealing with each other face to face while building communities, something the Jews feel threatened by… Read more »

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

You grow a young movement through addition. Ideological shit-testing is subtractive in nature. We spend an excessive amount of time here bickering as to who is most pure, rather than expanding the base.

Member

The Dissident Right unfortunately borrows some of the playbook from the SJW. We are constantly virtue signaling about purity. We need to start moving civnats our way and liberals towards being civnats.

Juri
Guest
Juri

Ramping up the worthless allies is burden not benefit. Boomers woke up 50 years ago when white flight begun and they have done nothing in 50 years and never will. All they wan is their comfort lies. Waking up those people is like alcoholic wife. She tries to save something what is not save-able.

Compsci
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Compsci

Juri. All potential allies were at one time, worthless. They grow with the proper care. These “allies” come from many different paths/sources. However, we spend a lot of time discrediting those sources. That is counter productive. When the tIme/nurturing is right, those people in and of themselves will abandon those sources and realize the right path for them is here. Example, your all-encompassing disparaging of “Boomers”. How does that signal to such folk that this is a group within which to find knowledge and refuge? Well, it doesn’t. What it signals is that “Boomers” are not welcome here. That’s subtractive… Read more »

Juri
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Juri

Mr Jared has talked 40 years without any positive consequences whatsoever. Amren is very good example how useless talking looks like. When are those masses awakened by Amren last 40 years. West got tens of millions immigrants last 40 years but nobody can see tens of millions pro whites.

Exile
Member
Exile

I’m still pretty useless from a day-and-a-half of travel and 11 hours worth of jet-lag, so I’ll spray & pray for a second before I crash again. With due respect for optics, it’s equally important for us to preserve our authenticity. I don’t think we’re going to fool anyone into being based. You don’t have to use a sledgehammer and should strive for presenting as a balanced, stable person. But do it with respect for truth and honesty about what you believe. We don’t have anything to apologize for and acting like we do is its own form of bad… Read more »

Mark Stoval
Guest
Mark Stoval

This has been a very good thread with a lot of good opinions, stories, suggestions, and strategies. Well done my dissident friends. The most important topic is how to get the “normal” white people to see that they must promote the interests of their ethnic group just as every non-white ethnic group does; AND that we are under attack on all fronts. We also have to address the fact that whites build the modern industrial society and that there is a fear that without whites the others might not be able to keep the industrial society functional. If not, what… Read more »

Mark Stoval
Guest
Mark Stoval

The Most World’s Important Unanswered Historical Question: “What Changed in 1800?” https://www.garynorth.com/public/7817.cfm The economic historian Gregory Clark summarizes a remarkable fact. . . . there is no sign of any improvement in material conditions for settled agrarian societies as we approach 1800. There was no gain between 1800 BC and AD 1800 — a period of 3,600 years. Indeed the wages for east and south Asia and southern Europe for 1800 stand out by their low level compared to those for ancient Babylonia, ancient Greece, or Roman Egypt. Then, around 1800, this all changed. Economic growth began: about 2% per… Read more »

sirlancelot
Guest
sirlancelot

Your last comment really resonated with me Mr Z man. Met a woman years ago . She was pretty, we shared cultural similarities, had similar interests and both interested in starting a family. After a couple of months the topic of children came up and she said it would be nice to raise a family, but the children wouldn’t be racist like I was ! Needless to say this killed any idea of making this woman my wife or the mother of my children. She was upset when we eventually broke up. Later found out she had previously dated a… Read more »

Member

Hey, Zman! Winning!

“If you are one of those small-minded people who thinks that Baltimore only excels in murder, rioting, racial segregation, and rodent infestations, you need to broaden your horizons—CDC data says that Charm City has the highest rate of STD infections in the entire nation!”

— from Taki’s Magazine’s latest “The Week that Perished” column.

David Davenport
Guest
David Davenport

Z man, you hurt Ted Beale’s feelings. What did you do that upset him?

BadThinker
Guest
BadThinker

Probably called him a Gamma.

Juri
Guest
Juri

It is impossible to talk with Normie. Normie does not think, Normie is only scared. You may invent some weasel words and scare Normie with them, so Normie is afraid and feels bad when he is not cooperating but Normie will never think. Left knows this well and that is why left is winning. Best Normie can do is is develop to Yesbut. Yesbut is best part of Normies . Yes, I agree with you in private. But I still vote for mass immigration, because being racist make me feel bad and when comes out that I am anti immigration,… Read more »

dhill
Guest
dhill

You have to overcome your addiction to “yes”. Strive for an informed “no” and cause cognitive dissonance. Plant an idea that will short-curcuit normies any time they watch the mainstream. Make it work toward your goals. Learn some persuasion. I already recommended Chriss Voss, this guy is brilliant. We need to learn “tactical empathy”, after all the truth will prevail.

By the way, greetings from Poland. I don’t think our nationalist protesters are particularly persuasive. I find Krzysztof Bosak much more convincing.

Yman
Guest
Yman

Enemy know how video material can be powerful since scientist found that Humans often confuse video with reality
we can use same method that enemy used
unlike sudden “red pilling” might cause be shunned, it’s wise move

we can suggest that share experience with some old video material like Roman holiday or spellbound
something like this:https://vimeo.com/343245211
If people bored old white films full of talent, intelligent, beautiful performance and asking more about narcissist wearing cloak
That person won’t change political views or way of life, and you just dodged bullet like revealing your power level

Vegetius
Guest
Vegetius

sometimes we overthink things

white men can volunteer two or three days a month to be a big brother for a white boy without a father

teach a boy to throw a football or catch a fish or change a tire

then go from there

dhill
Guest
dhill

I have recently stumbled upon Chriss Voss, an FBI negotiator. He does an amazing job talking about persuasion. Z Man, by the very nature you use one of his tricks “the late night FM DJ voice”. There is a lot to learn from him regardless of the fight at hand.