Perspective

In a very general way, you can divide men up into four categories, based on their role in an organization. In one group you have the decision makers, the people who sit at the top, making decisions for the organization. Then there is the adviser type, who specializes in an area and advises the decision maker. Then there are the executors, who carry out the decisions made by the decision makers, often relying on the special knowledge of the directors. Then, of course, there is everyone else.

Depending upon the arc of your life, the first time most people meet a decision maker is when they get into the work world or maybe in the military. Maybe at your first job out of college you got introduced, along with the other new hires, to one of the senior executives in the company. Perhaps it was in the service when you were in the same room with a senior officer. You did not have to know you were in the presence of decision maker, as you just knew it. They were different.

The fact is, people who make decisions are different. These are people comfortable taking responsibility for their actions. They are also aware of the fact that their decisions have consequences for others. Senior officers put men into harm’s way, senior executives decide the fate of the company and business owners have the welfare of their employees to consider. People good at this role, comfortable with it, have a different air about them. Their power level is obvious.

The adviser role is often where decisions makers are cultivated, but some men are best suited to be seconds. Look around at careers and it is not unusual to see a decision maker have a very short turn in the adviser role. It was just a resume builder, not a training ground. The people best at this role enjoy mastering a narrow area and being the guy relied upon to advise on it. They are also the type of people who have to be reminded that perfection is the enemy of the good enough.

The execution layer is where most people spend their lives. They either give orders to everyone else or they take orders like everyone else. They may not like the policies and procedures handed down to them, but they value the need to follow orders and maintain those policies and procedures. This layer will often get called on by decision makers to tell them how those policies are working. They are the first to see the real-world consequences of the decisions made at the top.

Now, life being what it is, few people like to walk around advertising the fact they are just a person who takes orders. The military solves this by forcing everyone to advertise their status on their uniform. Corporations have floors to let everyone know their status in the firm. Out in the wild, people are free to fake it. This is obvious on-line, where people often wildly overstate their status. There are more top-shelf attorneys on Twitter than anywhere on earth. It is the same with every profession.

Events often reveal the reality of people’s role. These are people who were able to get away with speaking in generalities about their supposed subject, but are revealed to have only a superficial understanding of it. This is most amusing with the legal experts that turn up on cable chat shows. Much of what these people say is nonsense, because they never actually practiced law. Those that did, ended up in the television studio, because they were not very good at being a lawyer.

We see this with the coronavirus and the subsequent lock-downs. The people beginning with “all we have to do” are people who have never made a decision. Most likely, they have never been in the same room where a decision is made. If the answer is easy or obvious, there is no need for a decision maker or his advisers. Those decisions get made by the execution layer. When the answer is obvious, it means people at the top anticipated it and established rules for such a situation.

A similar rule applies to those starting sentences with “We need to do” followed by their preferred approach. Anyone who has been in a decision-making role has heard that many times, often thinking, “if that were true, you would not be telling me this.” This sort of thinking is what comes from people in that advisory role. Those people are not required to contemplate trade-offs. That’s not who they are or what they do. Their job is conjuring possible solutions for the boss.

Obviously, most of people in the media fall into the final category. They are the “everyone else”, people who just follow orders. In the case of pundits, opinion makers and influencers, they play the role assigned to them. The old guy kitted out like Mr. Chips is roll him on stage to play the part of the wise professor. The bookish looking young person plays the role of super-smart nerd. All of the people we see and hear in the mass media are performers, doing what they are told.

All of this is important to keep in mind in this crisis. When someone you think is pretty smart says, “all we have to do is quarantine the country for a month” you know you are dealing with someone who has never been in a room where decisions are made. They don’t know what they don’t know. The same applies to people who say things like “we need to implement strict measures to slow the spread.” If that were true, it would have happened as soon as the virus was detected.

Public policy is always about trade-offs. This is true in the easy times and it is true in the terrible times. There are no cost-free solutions to problems. Every problem presents a set of trade-offs. Decision makers know this and thus avoid million-dollar solutions to hundred-dollar problems. At least the good ones do. Those who rise to the top and fail are usually the ones who get the trade-offs wrong. In the coming months, we’re going to see a lot of that as the decision makers navigate what comes next.


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Tykebomb
Guest
Tykebomb

Look, all I’m saying is we have to nuke New York and California.

Now about this coronavirus, I have no idea.

Lawdog
Member

I hope Biden gets the virus. There’s just something about “Corona Joe” that tickles me.

SamlAdams
Guest
SamlAdams

My theory as to why we haven’t seen him is he’s entered that stage of senility where he doesn’t believe he needs to wear pants in public.

Member

You’ll know when he gets into uncontrollable hair-sniffing mode.

greyenlightenment
Guest

that is real possibility but then you will get get sanders, who is possibly even a bigger threat to Trump than Joe

SamlAdams
Guest
SamlAdams

Decent chance you will get Cuomo. Bernie’s appeal has a hard ceiling.

tonaludatus
Guest
tonaludatus

for almost a year now I have been telling my wife that the man to watch getting on a white horse in shiny armor is Terry McAuliffe the CCC (creepiest crypto clinton)

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Guest

Cuomo has matured, and Frankly I have little to fault with him except not shutting down Raccoon City- and that’s because DeBlasio was in the way. In the end Cuomo had to shut down the state. Just to get Westchester and NYC.

Member

I see him campaigning in a giant sombrero and wearing a t-shirt with a picture of an anthropomorphized virus particle holding a beer.

Member
Lawdog
Member

ARCHIMEDES! HOT DOG!

Yves Vannes
Member

If only….following the lead of today’s first comment.

Lawdog
Member

But isn’t participating in (some) arbitrary measures to slow the spread just good optics?

They are terrified of this virus and want to comfort themselves. That in mind, I’m willing to do a few silly things to allay a normie’s anxiety.

But that doesn’t mean I’m fine with sitting in this quarantine for a damn month.

MemeWarVet
Guest
MemeWarVet

It’ll be interesting to see if they lift it after 30 days…

ChetRollins
Guest
ChetRollins

Trump is already testing the waters in Twitter with stopping the quarantines. I expect a gradual softening by the end of the week.

Of course, Trump can be insanely schizophrenic, so take with a grain of salt,

Lawdog
Member

I hope he does soften restrictions. But I predict it will not be that soon. I expect two more weeks of this, minimum.

Screwtape
Guest
Screwtape

Trump pointed to the ripcord but his phrasing is retarded as usual. “We” will decide”? Who is this we? The lack of leadership is just striking. I mean I don’t expect these clowns to look out for my interests but I do expect them to at least be men and take responsibility for actually making a decision. The ambiguity and schizo irrationality is worse than just making suboptimal – but at least definitive, choices. Meanwhile my greasy chosen gaypedo gov is hiding behind orange man bad. His pressers tell us nothing of value. Just a bunch of slippery qualifiers and… Read more »

Ben the Layabout
Guest
Ben the Layabout

My Dad was career Federal Government, and he said “There are no honest generals, maybe some honest colonels.” And he retired in 1972! To all appearances, the situation has not improved in half a century.

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Guest

Its worse
The old school wasn’t cowards
And they didn’t shrink from providing fire support
Or investigate their men for shooting during battle.

And as far as honesty; honestly they are poor in valor, but suspiciously rich in the worldly sense.

Lineman
Guest
Lineman

Well said my Brother and which is why I push Community so hard which is why I’ve been absent from around here because I’m trying to practice what I preach and help fill in the gaps that others in my Community have…Hope you are well and have what you need to ride out this storm in whatever form it comes at us…

MemeWarVet
Guest
MemeWarVet

I suspect Trump would like to put some daylight between his position and that of the (mostly Democratic) big-State governors who are completely shutting their states down.

Lawdog
Member

Then hopefully the clouds of panic will break soon.

Dr. Dre
Guest
Dr. Dre

Wait a minute. It was the a$$#%^&e Repub Gov of Ohio, a pretty big state, who started that ball rolling last week. He has a horrible female Pubic Health Director, too, who claims that they will have 100,000 cases/deaths there soon. She’s a big Planned P’hood proponent, too, and Gov DeWine, who is a huge pro-life guy — has 8 kids or something himself — managed to install this witch in his cabinet. I question his sanity. Also, his political creds as he was the only Gov to postpone the primary election there last week. No one gives a rat’s… Read more »

Al from da Nort
Guest
Al from da Nort

Dre;

Louisiana too. First actually, they claim. See below.

Poll workers (largely nominally paid volunteers) in the remaining primaries were potentially exposed w/o masks, gloves and surface sanitizer because they must sit 12+ hours at a table while every voter steps up to them and must state their name and present ID (which must be handled) to get a ballot. Poll workers refused to show up in many states for that reason.

Perversely, his was one of the few closures that was *not* silly.

https://www.wdsu.com/article/live-updates-louisiana-secretary-of-state-discusses-covid-19-impacts-on-upcoming-primary/31475459#

Member

I’ve already committed to voting for whoever is running against him in 2022 (assuming we’re holding elections by then). Democrat, National Socialist, LaRouchian, whatever. Failure that great has to be punished.

Drake
Guest
Drake

Watched some of his press conference yesterday. They are starting a very large scale trail with the malaria medicine and should know if it works as well as advertised within a week.
If it does work, I bet Trump has the feds order up billions of tablets, declares victory, and starts to wind it all down. If Governors want to keep their states locked down, they’ll be doing it without fed support.
That’s my hope…

Federalist
Guest
Federalist

But Trump isn’t really imposing the quarantines. It’s mostly governors and big city mayors who apparently can assume dictatorial powers on their own say so.

greyenlightenment
Guest

he has the biggest platform in the world and can address Congress. maybe he can implore them to stop . there is a supreme court. maybe it can be ruled unconstitutional?

Member

One of my YouTube gun channels reports that the Gov of NJ has shut down the NICS background check system in that state. I keep wondering how the state police haven’t gone to his office and arrested him yet. The system has also been shut down in Tennessee it seems.

Sandmich
Guest
Sandmich

In Ohio gun stores are not “essential” and should be closed, liquor stores on the other hand are essential and should remain open.

Member

I’ll drink to that. Anyway, if you don’t already own 10,000 rounds of ammo or so, you deserve your grasshopper award.

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Guest

Thats true. Seriously there are guys out there with 1 million rounds.

In their house.

I mean brah – that’s neurotic, but there are worse things.

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

It’s not neurotic if you either buy when the prices are low – and sell to the retards when the prices are high (like right now)…… then it’s an “investment”. One that can reap pretty good rewards BTW. I don’t know what a case of .223 is going for right now because I haven’t checked. But if you buy right you can get 1000 rounds for about $350. I know when one of the Obama gun crusades was ongoing and everybody was buying everything gun related – 1000 rounds was being sold in some cases for as much as $700.… Read more »

Educated.redneck
Guest
Educated.redneck

Oh yeah, Vizzini? If you dont have 100#+ of Pb and a smelter, you deserve a an honorary grasshopper award. (Jk)

Member

Well yes, alcohol withdrawal can kill people whereas no one ever died because they couldn’t get a gun or ammo. Wait a minute…

Educated.redneck
Guest
Educated.redneck

The irony of someone with the handle “Federalist” poo-pooing local exercise of police powers in a way that diverges from the fedgov position is very amusing.

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Guest

The only ones I can’t stand are people in the public sector with The Fountainhead enshrined in their office.

Ryan was that way.

Screwtape
Guest
Screwtape

CA, with a population of 40 million and the fifth or sixth largest economy in the world, home to 4-5 of the top 20 research universities in the world, an agricultural production area larger than several other states and nations’ entire land mass, two of the largest and busiest deepwater ports in the world, a massive tourism industry, the birthplace of aerospace and technology and entertainment, the largest taxable workforce in the country, one of the busiest land border crossings in the world, and all of the smartest and best looking people in the world outside of maybe Manhattan is… Read more »

FashGordon
Guest
FashGordon

Best looking people? Smartest? Have you ever been to cali? 25% of our population can’t even pass a HS equivalency exam. Don’t form your opinions based on what the media says. What they present to you is almost always the inversion of reality.

Screwtape
Guest
Screwtape

Lol fashy, i spent 20 years in the golden state. It was sarc-satire. From boilerplate CA chamber of commerce with a little hollyweird vanity tossed in for giggles.

When I was starting my career in LA I spent most of my evenings working on pitchbooks for deals and these economic overviews became forever seared in my brain. All the magic kingdom stuff.

But yeah, its a Mexican outpost coasting on fumes of yesterday men. I earned most of my opinions the hard way.

greyenlightenment
Guest

Trump will do what he normally does when confronted with such an option, he will look into it. He does not want to be blamed for increased deaths and cases, which may hurt his reelection, but the death count will rise anyway. Quarantines, shutdowns, and other stuff not working. No need to destroy the economy to save maybe few thousand elderly lives.

S. Bishop
Guest
S. Bishop

Losing “a few thousand elderly lives” is OK. How about a few 10s of thousand? Or maybe 10 million? I’m glad you bracketed the acceptable level of results at plus or minus a few thousand.

Math is hard.

greyenlightenment
Guest

increasing resources to corona means resources are diverted form things that my also be lethal but more common, 670k elderly could die in US if 100m Americans are infected. the reduction of gdp from that many ppl dying is not nearly as much as already lost and expected to lose from shutdowns. the us pop historically grows at 1%/year, so the lost GDP is replaced in half a year. Such economic loss is also offset also to some degree by the fact that the elderly are past peak productive and reproductive years and that their wealth will go to their… Read more »

FashGordon
Guest
FashGordon

It’s not going to be 10 million. You can’t just look at the numbers and extrapolate. Consider how few have been tested, and the types of cases who would merit a test given the short supply of them. It’s going to be mostly the sickest who have it bad enough to go to the hospital and actually get tested. Plenty of people have corona but mild symptoms and never get tested. There have only been about 70k administered. The actual mortality rate will be lower. How much lower is impossible to say but certainly lower.

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Guest

Well apparently it was needed cuz its done.

Yves Vannes
Member

In the past week cases in the US have jumped from 2000 to 20,000.

This number reflects a big jump in the number of people being tested but backing off now after having committed to shutting things down may be premature. He’s boxed himself in.

Dave
Guest
Dave

20,000 positives does not mean 20,000 hospitalizations, let alone deaths.
The media loves to continue to scare the shit out of everyone with the ever growing list of positive cases.
The strong majority of those positives are asymptomatic, and most of the symptomatic will not require hospitalization.
The number of deaths due exclusively to coronavirus is small.

greyenlightenment
Guest

getting the national guard involved is bad optics on trump’s part and making people more scared and lending justification for local governments to impose restrictions, not just in those states but everywhere else . This will not hurt his national support much, but it will probably hurt trump supporters in those states. Trump will not pay if things keep going to shit and wlll likely still win. we will.

Al from da Nort
Guest
Al from da Nort

Gray; Guard is useful for several things that ordinary state officials are not. Among them: 1. Logistics planning and execution on the fly. Moving stuff around in a hurry with their own trucks. 2. Rapid construction of temporary facilities, ie tent hospitals. 3. Expertise in decontamination via NBC (Nuc, Bio, Chem) Warfare training that all of them get.* During the Ebola outbreak it was obvious that (some) CDC workers were improperly trained (bare skin while dealing with a contact infective agent). Of course, there’s also the repression of disorders thing too. But that’s not what’s needed right now. Because they… Read more »

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Guest

Excellent response.

The military if course state or Federal still responds to orders, and hence is resorted to more and more.

This historically means rule by soldiers and/or an aristocratic class.
There are worse things.

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Guest

Trump hasn’t gotten the National Guard involved, the governors have.
The National Guard works for State governors.

Maybe you have better info, but I am unaware of any Federalizations of the Guard for COVID. The State people called up so far are medical personnel.

Jack Dobson
Guest
Jack Dobson

“Public policy is always about trade-offs. This is true in the easy times and it is true in the terrible times. There are no cost-free solutions to problems. Every problem presents a set of trade-offs. Decision makers know this and thus avoid million-dollar solutions to hundred-dollar problems. At least the good ones do.” “the good ones” What we are seeing is the implementation of policies without much thought at all about trade-offs or consequences, and that’s the best case interpretation. Mostly we are seeing decisions based on turf protection and power grabs, which comes naturally to bureaucrats. We’ll be told… Read more »

NJ Person
Guest
NJ Person

Latest number dead from coronavirus in Italy (the so-called worst case scenario country): 5,476. Total population of Italy: 60.32 million. Mortality rate is .000009%. It does not look to be anything near the black death. Please let me know, anyone, if I am missing something.

H I
Guest
H I

Yes, exponential growth.

NJ Person
Guest
NJ Person

Okay. Valid point. But that will require a lot of exponential growth and thus be grounds for reasonable skepticism subject to change as new facts come.

Paintersforms
Guest
Paintersforms

Italy is also on the steep part of the curve, right? The exponential growth such as it’ll be should be happening right now. Correct me if I’m wrong about that, I’ll admit I’m not following Italy up to the moment.

Lawdog
Member

Yeah, that’s true.

Screwtape
Guest
Screwtape

Expectational growth.

UFO
Guest
UFO

What about the side effects? Its rumored to cause organ damage, and infertility after it passes. So say we left it unchecked, we may end up with a shit ton of alive, but infertile young people. There’s also the very real possibility that this is a bioweapon that slipped out of a lab, and we just don’t know how it will work long term. I respect Z’s take that this is a nothingburger and agree that the medical field is full of hysterical wimmin. But some kind of response is necessary to slow the spread of this virus. We don’t… Read more »

Lawdog
Member

I lean toward your position. Best measures do have to be taken, even if it winds up being nothing.

We have gone too far, though.

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Guest
Ris_Eruwaedhiel

It’s not the flu, but a bad cold. Colds often progress to pneumonia in the bedridden and kill them. Killed both of my elderly parents.

https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/cold-guide/common_cold_causes

Z has pointed this out.

Mark Stoval
Guest
Mark Stoval

Yes, when you are in your 80’s for example something will kill you. Often it starts with a cold or the seasonal flu. The flu and flu-like illnesses strike, hospitalize, and kill far more people each year than this wimpy-virus has. And we know that vitamins and minerals help us with our immune system but doctors never suggest that. We also know that the seasonal flu vaccination causes the immune system to be less effective against other germs; that is other than what was vaccinated against. So many researchers have suggested that vaccines for the elderly are counter productive when… Read more »

greyenlightenment
Guest

it’s a cascade. a fall leads to pneumonia and death a few weeks later.

joe_mama
Guest
joe_mama

Well, I think there is something unique about the virus vs standard flu that’s not fully understood. I know a family that has it. One of the members is unfortunately in very bad shape. The person is also a little bit older, overweight and diabetic. The rest of the family members that have it are totally fine. This thing seems to go after diabetics hard, causing organ shutdown. Putting undue pressure on an already weakened system. That all being said, agree with Z that we can’t keep things shutdown indefinitely. At some point a “least worst option” decision has to… Read more »

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

Seems in modern times we’ve forgotten the old adage: “Pneumonia, the old person’s friend”. That’s what killed the majority if I recall in hospitals years ago. Took my grandfather as well.

Lawdog
Member

And regarding infertility, my fiance is pregnant. It’s got me thinking about that literary masterpiece: Children of Men.The book of course.

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

How about taking this quarantine to it’s desired conclusion. Perhaps that will give us a better view by which to analyze the current process of bending the curve. Let’s say, we are successful, even more successful than bending the curve. The virus stops spreading and seemingly disappears within 90 days of the present quarantine. Where does it (virus) go? Well, we know it is not destroyed, indeed it seems to be in most other countries today. Many of those poor and completely unable to fight the disease as we do. Take for example other diseases such as TB, Measles, etc.… Read more »

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

BTW, as addendum, I just had such discussion with wife a bit ago, she was of the thought, “We don’t know enough, not enough facts, not enough testing, we must do everything we can think of.” My rebuttal (always difficult as she takes such very personal) is that we have logical minds that can sense inconsistencies, sort facts, and predict roughly future outcomes in broad and general sense. Assume the present argument on bending the curve and expand argument to a future in which this outcome has occurred. Now what is accomplished (long term)? If the answer is “nothing of… Read more »

FashGordon
Guest
FashGordon

It’s only been two weeks since this thing started to take off outside of china though. I’m withholding judgement until more time passes. Two weeks is not very long.

Lawdog
Member

Yeah, I think it’s going to go on even longer.

Thorsted
Guest
Thorsted

The virus in Italy is centred around some few regions and also some cities in those regions. Bergamo in Lombardy is very affected.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Italy

ConservativeFred
Guest
ConservativeFred

Is it a safe assumption that the data coming out of Italy is accurate?

Bill_Mullins
Member

Assume for argument’s sake that it is not – that the numbers coming out of Italy are DELIBERATELY skewed. If that is the case then the numbers are either being UNDER reported or OVER reported. If the numbers are misreported, then WHICH numbers are being misreported and WHY? If both numbers – i.e. both total cases and total deaths – are misreported, then there is still something exceedingly odd going on in Italy because the death rate is a tad over 9.5%. If they’re under reporting either numbers then things are still exceedingly odd. And who benefits from such misreporting?… Read more »

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

The statistics we should be looking at are 2020 deaths vs. 2019 deaths for the population. Are they higher? Are they significantly higher?

Lineman
Guest
Lineman

Your numbers are wrong because your counting the whole population who don’t all have it…You have to take deaths divided by those who have recovered from it but even that is a guessing game because we don’t have enough test kits to see who even has it…

Member

Many online show no understanding of the concepts of trade offs or second order effects, let alone what they might be for our current situation. Commo with them is a waste of time, but they tend to disseminaye their ignorance far and wide.

The Right Doctor
Guest
The Right Doctor

Let me try to tell you something I’ve noticed about the reaction to this threat. Last week when I realized people were actually starting to freak out about doomsday, I had been away from my wife for four days. We talk all the time, but I had never asked her about her fears. She said, Scared of what? Either it’s coming or it’s not. I’m not personally worried. It was another reminder to congratulate myself on having married the right woman, because that’s exactly the way I felt. Neither of us is worried in an existential sense. By contrast, some… Read more »

KGB
Guest
KGB

Indeed, you chose very well. Would that all women displayed such equanimity.

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Guest
Ris_Eruwaedhiel

I’m at work (office) in a non-essential business. The hell with what Gov. Murphy of NJ says.

Chad Hayden
Guest
Chad Hayden

It’s that red hair talkin Ris

NJ Person
Guest
NJ Person

Yesterday I talked with an epidemiologist with significant medical training. This person supervises projects in coordination with the CDC and told me that the best policy would be to let the virus run its course with the population getting immunity the natural way.

Federalist
Guest
Federalist

NJ,
Zman said in his comment, doing something stupid is always seen as better than doing nothing. Letting it run its course might be smart but it’s doing nothing. We had to do something stupid and have been wildly successful.

Major Hoople
Member
Major Hoople

Problem is no politician in a democracy can do that. Boris Johnson considered it, probably on advice of Dominic Cummings, then quickly abandoned it when someone pointed out the political fallout of people dying in hospital hallways.

Alzaebo
Guest

They’re all saying that or paid to say it. Even CA’s state doctor, on the radio, said, “oh, the young are getting it, and that’s a GOOD thing!” This one doesn’t produce antibodies, it hides like AIDS. There are no AIDS antibodies. DOESN’T PRODUCE ANTIBODIES. NO IMMUNITY. FUTURE RE-INFECTION. POTENTIAL STERILITY OR DISABILITY. Sorry for shouting. Rooster says “disseminate their ignorance far and wide.” Fash says, “Two weeks is not very long.” The “herd immunity” nitwits are a perfect illustration of today’s Z-post. I hope as an ignoramus that “no immunity” is 100, no, 200% wrong. If not, ‘society adapting… Read more »

Fluella De Vil
Guest
Fluella De Vil

Of course, this was as if March 6. Has the story changed, Al? “So far, most of these cases of reinfection have been in China, where the outbreak started, and research documenting these cases — and confirming that they are, in fact, instances of reinfection — remains lacking, experts say. ‘I do not know of any cases at present where I would be definitively convinced that a person had fully recovered from the disease and had been reinfected as opposed to relapsed,’ William Hanage, assistant professor of epidemiology at the T.H. Chan School of Public Health at Harvard University, told… Read more »

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Guest
Ris_Eruwaedhiel

Herd immunity?

Bill_Mullins
Member

Herd immunity (also called herd effect, community immunity, population immunity, or social immunity) is a form of indirect protection from infectious disease that occurs when a large percentage of a population has become immune to an infection, whether through previous infections or vaccination, thereby providing a measure of protection for individuals who are not immune.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

Jim-bo-bo
Guest
Jim-bo-bo

My opinion is somewhat like yours expressed 27 minutes later without reading yours….refuse to be afraid….in a way, death stalks us continuously and I will continue to enjoy my day,,,

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Right now you can divide people into two groups, those who are afraid, and those who are not afraid. You can see the fear (or not) in their eyes when you meet them.

joe_mama
Guest
joe_mama

Well personally, I’m afraid of the aftereffects of politicians trying to ‘fix the problem’. I’d rather take my chances with the virus than a cratered economy.

Bill_Mullins
Member

Unfortunately, we’re probably past the point of being able to avoid a cratered economy and will likely see a depression as bad as or even worse than the one which began 90 odd years ago. Unfortunately, the measures which are likely to be used to “bring us out of it” will almost certainly be modeled on that used by the Democrats back then and we damned well KNOW how well THAT worked.

Alzaebo
Guest

It’s not the dying, it’s the fear of leaving things unfinished.

My favorite last words, from a book of quotes from the deathbed–
A businessman: “Still so much left to be done”

Igor Stravinsky
Guest
Igor Stravinsky

I have no fear of miniature albino giraffes because I have the garden gnomes.

Stranger in a strange land
Guest
Stranger in a strange land

Hey Igor – love your music.

Member

how much are you afraid of miniature albino giraffes?

They’re a tripping hazard.

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

I don’t fear albino giraffes, I do fear “bread lines”. Now that’s not me, nor will it ever be. I’m that Boomer that got in on the action early and made out like a bandit. But I didn’t check out of society. I have children, my friends have children. Enough said.

BadThinker
Guest
BadThinker

I often wonder if the problem with the modern world is that it demands far too many decision makers than actually exist, so we end up with unserious people in charge, simply because there aren’t enough serious people to go around.

Drake
Guest
Drake

Back before government got huge, the local Mayor, Count, whatever made most of the calls. If he was an idiot, too bad for his county – but not a problem for all the other counties. Now we have Governors in NY, NJ, OH, and CT trying to out-idiot each other.

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Guest
Ris_Eruwaedhiel

Subsidiarity or federalism. Local people know what’s best for local people. Of course, at one time local people paid their own bills and didn’t stick their hands out to the State and Federal governments. With subsidy comes control. On top of that, our Cloud People rulers regard the great mass of ordinary Americans as livestock who need to looked after.

Alzaebo
Guest

If only the scumbags had let My President to what he wanted to in January.

But they knew, and wanted it to get worse, so they could grab the money sure to come.

They f**ked up and now they’ll over-reach and blame My Prez to cover their stupid, greedy, criminal azzes.

Green New Deal and Peeing Prostitutes-Gate went nowhere, so now the pigs are counting on Corona-chan going viral.

BadThinker
Guest
BadThinker

Don’t forget PA! Wolfe just ‘locked down’ some counties over 644 cases in a population of 12,000,000.

Member
MossHammer

BT. Interesting “..so we end up with unserious people in charge”
It seems the excess / luxury of the modern world softens the negative consequences of these unserious meat bags making decisions. Too bad.

Lawdog
Member

Interesting, although isn’t big tech’s thing consolidation? I’d expect to see fewer decision makers as data becomes easier to collect, review and manipulate. Fewer *real* decision makers, anyway

BadThinker
Guest
BadThinker

One thing the machines are good at is spotting patterns based on input data. Problem is that the world is *far* more complex than the data we collect on it. Oversimplification of the world (via economists and sociologists) is one of the reasons we’re in this mess. In marketing the problem is called ‘sales attribution’ – what caused a customer to buy our product? The marketer will tell you it was because of the coupon we sent to them. The realist will tell you “millions of reasons”. There’s a happy medium there somewhere, but it means judgement and moving from… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest

That’s why I agree with Karl Horst’s report of Chinese Disruption strategy. They are planning on consolidating and integrating the physical supply chain while our politicos use this opportunity to consolidate and integrate the feminine surveillance state, their main focus for many years. The good and interesting news is purely American- for instance, a microdistillery in Bozeman is producing a local version of Purell and giving it away to first responders (and anyone who shows up.) Will our big boys ramp up essentials? I’m hoping capitalism responds as we used to before creaky, clunky, cheating China gets there first. What… Read more »

Yves Vannes
Member

Maybe the problem isn’t a lack of serious people but a lack of serious people in serious position. Clown World became a clownish world by handing out responsibilities to malicious outsiders and to jumped up trash. The handful of capable people in public life, if there are even a handful, have to play along to get along…or they are spineless obsequious mercenaries.

Screwtape
Guest
Screwtape

Yves, yes. We have a deficit of true decision makers – and an oversupply of middling self-serving administrators whose success is a function of their skill in taking advantage of the decay within the organizations and systems to leverage others into accepting all the risk. Further. HR, affirmative action, PC, lawfare, rent-seeking, etc. mean that the system does not cultivate advisors into decision makers or inoculate against Larping leaders and grifters. Bad actors are more often elevated and/or protected, than ejected. We have mercenaries and their handlers; officers hiding behind cloud policy and procedures insulating them from any direct responsibility;… Read more »

Yves Vannes
Member

My department did its own hiring for the first half of my career. For the past decade everything, even whom we can interview, now gets filtered through the commissars in HR.

Bill_Mullins
Member

the problem with the modern world is that it demands far too many decision makers than actually exist, so we end up with unserious incompetent people in charge, simply because there aren’t enough serious competent people to go around.

Fixed it per the ZMan from last week.

H I
Guest
H I

Spot on about tradeoffs. Uncertainty is making it hard to judge tradeoffs now. A couple of ways you can address uncertainty (among others): choose moves that have the smaller downside if you’re wrong, and adjust reasonably often based on new information. Closing schools and the China travel ban are examples of the first way. Locking down non-essential businesses may also be one, though depending on how long it lasts it may prove not to be. The bottom line is that we need widespread testing so those tradeoffs can be evaluated.

BadThinker
Guest
BadThinker

The problem with testing is that it is not actually as good as you think it is.

For the math, have a read:
https://wmbriggs.com/post/29761/

“With a base rate of 1 out of 100, there is still only a 50/50 chance you got the bug! Only 50/50. Flip a burger. Of course, if you’re in Wuhan, or parts of Italy, B = 1% maybe isn’t so realistic. What’s your B? I have no idea. There is no unique B!”

H I
Guest
H I

Thanks for the link, BadThinker. I’m more familiar with that math than you’d know. We still need testing, and specifically cheap and fast testing of people who haven’t entered the medical system yet (that probably means a non-PCR test, which will take some time).

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

More testing never hurts. Eventually all stat’s will be based of some sort of estimate of cases, but that estimate will only be made better with more testing. The problem is one of philosophy, act without appropriate information, or wait until such information is available—or rather act within the boundaries of fact based evidence and reason—not emotion, panic, fear, duplicity. We have decided to crash the economy without appropriate information. Not just on contagion and death rates, but on the cost of such actions as “social distancing”. I have yet to hear anyone grapple with the unseen—and yet unrealized cost—of… Read more »

Bill_Mullins
Member

Eventually all stat’s will be based of some sort of estimate of cases, but that estimate will only be made better with more testing.

That assumes that the tests are actually worth a tinker’s dam. If the tests have a high incidence of wither false positives or false negatives then any decisions made on the basis of such test will be nothing more than WAGs (Wild Ass Guess). How much testing has been done of the tests themselves?

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

Indeed. Fast and reliable testing could have prevented most of this. Test and isolate the infected for a couple of weeks. We got the opposite.

Member

This is something I’ve been wondering a lot about too. How many of these supposed cases of Coronavirus – even in Italy – are actually false positives? We have some test that’s been cooked up over a couple of weeks in a lab so who knows how accurate it is. And as Briggs points out (And this is literally a textbook example of Bayes law that’s been taught in statistics classes for years. I’ve always used it myself when I’ve taught stats classes.) even if a test is highly accurate, there’s still a very good chance you don’t have the… Read more »

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Guest
Ris_Eruwaedhiel

I thought the same thing because I read that the majority of people who test positive the first time they are tested don’t actually have the sickness. They need to be retested. Also, the majority of people with it are asymptomatic.

Mark Stoval
Guest
Mark Stoval

There was a chart that showed something like 50% of those that died had 3 other serious diseases. 25% or so had 2, and the rest had one serious disease.

So what really killed them? People with suppressed immune systems die of pneumonia every year often along with the flu. Why would anyone think Coronavirus (an old and well know virus) is somehow solely responsible for every death?

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Guest
Ris_Eruwaedhiel

Many people with the sniffles will fear that they have the ailment and run to the emergency room.

About a month ago, before the hysteria, there was a warm day and evening, so I left the my bedroom window a bit and woke up with a mild cold. Maybe it was the corona virus!

Member

You jest, but Julie Kelly had an article the other day speculating about exactly this: https://www.amgreatness.com/2020/03/19/dangerous-curves/ Apparently, there was an big spike in people showing up at the doctor early in the year with “flu-like” symptoms who tested negative for the flu. Those cases actually peaked back in January and started leveling off in February before the Coronavirus hysteria kicked into high gear. For all we know those were a bunch of undiagnosed Coronavirus cases and the whole epidemic had started to level off over a month ago. There’ve been other years for which the number of these mystery illnesses… Read more »

Stina
Guest
Stina

We had this in our community in December. A friend had it really bad and was hacking up blood. A couple of mutual friends had their entire family on bed rest. It miraculously missed me and hit my husband. He was dealing with it through January. The only kid that had anything was the 4 year old and whatever it was led to an ear infection.

We’ve been speculating on if we didn’t have this thing already.

Member

Ear infections in kids are often caused by cold viruses and about a third of common colds are due to Coronaviruses in particular.

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Guest
Ris_Eruwaedhiel

It occurred to me that if every person with a cold underwent this coronavirus test a year ago, how many would test positive for coronavirus?

“You have coronavirus.” “Oh, okay.” It would have been no big deal.

According to the WebMD article I referenced on another post, coronavirus causes about 20% of colds and does its dirty work in the winter and early spring. The other types of colds are rhinovirus and RSV and parainfluenza.

Member

Exactly the point Aaron Ginn (he of the censored Medium article) was making the other day about deaths in Italy:

https://twitter.com/aginnt/status/1241542169623699456

Alzaebo
Guest

The other problem is the media lumping “potential cases” into the case load numbers, ramping up the casualty counts.

Drake
Guest
Drake

Most of the politicians making decisions (other than Trump) have little real-work experience in the economy and generally have a bias in favor of state power. In their eyes, being a dictator has no downside.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Decision makers are being judged on the efficacy of the decision, rather than on the wisdom of the decision making process when one has incomplete information. Throwing rocks at someone when the result is suboptimal is not hard to do, it is simply piling on, after the fact. What you want are people making wise choices, given big gaps in information about the matter at hand. Policy choices that will not strand everyone in a really bad place if the choice does not work out, and choices that make sense in a complex, incomplete situation. H I is exactly right.

Trapped on Clown World
Guest
Trapped on Clown World

It’s likely that our society has become hostile to decision makers. People who calmly make hard choices are despised, we don’t want our leaders to say that some people will die, we want them to say that we will all be safe. It’s the same reason we become apocalyptic when a business owner says a $15 minimum wage isn’t reasonable for a guy washing cars. Instead we have people who would have originally been “the rest of us” in positions of power, barking orders to the executors, being advised by lunatics who have been trained mainly in the importance of… Read more »

Screwtape
Guest
Screwtape

Good point Trapped. Its not just open hostility, as that is largely reserved for crimethinkers, badwhites, and the deplorables. As I mentioned above, I think a system either solves for decision makers or it solves for charismatic administrators (to put it nicely) based on the “books” it keeps. The zero-sum of hierarchy selection means that at some point one set of traits becomes favored and thus dominant. Aside. Entryism is an issue here as once a clown gains authority in an org, they will select for sub-clowns and the virus spreads. This is why the leaders most important function/skill IMO… Read more »

Lineman
Guest
Lineman

That’s where AA led us too and having HR run the company…Inmates running the asylum…

Alzaebo
Guest

“There are two sets of books: truth and power.”

That’s an instant classic, one for the ages.

Another, a maxim, cultural anthropology in one sentence:
“The zero-sum of hierarchy selection means that at some point one set of traits becomes favored and thus dominant.”

Drake
Guest
Drake

Good breakdown of people. I’ve spent most of my life in the advisory and execution roles – project, program, and strategy management. My one objection in the essay – if you are an advisor and do not consider trade-offs and present them to decision makers, you are truly terrible at your job. (And yes, there are many advisors terrible at their jobs who operate on their own agendas)

Member

https://www.nbcchicago.com/top-videos-home/chicago-doctors-blunt-speech-about-covid-19-hits-home-across-the-country/2241880/?fbclid=IwAR2xAOXKM-kZPRyIWyXeDQ7S6FXluqd6u5-EcPLlgGfBZ5RZre_vURAJqhQ The above address is to the Chicago presser with this chick giving what amounts to an impassioned high school valedictory. That the rulers trot her and her data-free comments out now – and include a sign language guy in oddly tight pants for extra fun – is one of the more distressing things I’ve seen associated with this outbreak. It’s an unserious signal about something that is supposed to be serious. It’s the sort of mistake you can make if you have lots of credibility, but in an environment where the public wonders about the level of basic competence… Read more »

ChetRollins
Guest
ChetRollins

Good Lord. Her body language and tone was more in line with an hysterical teenage girl who just broke up with her boyfriend than an adult woman professional.

jrod
Guest
jrod

She has bizarrely inappropriate affect.

Stranger in a strange land
Guest
Stranger in a strange land

I admit I couldn’t stomach watching the entire performance – I was fearful that at some point she say: “like, OMG, this is totally like…you know…bad”.
It was more likely I’d be more ill listening to her than whatever CV19 has to offer.

ConservativeFred
Guest
ConservativeFred

I stopped watching after a minute . . . bad acting and hyperbole.

LineInTheSand
Guest
LineInTheSand

I didn’t see the video at BTP’s link so I looked it up on YouTube. These people do not inspire confidence, although I would hire the sign language guy for a child’s birthday, provided he was properly supervised and wore less tight pants.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-iVg3b1apo

Member

I’ve noticed a trend for a long time for our masters in corporations and governments to set up women as flaks whenever there is any kind of interaction with the public. The thinking is probably that they are more controllable and less likely to think for themselves than a man would be. There’s also the fact that, when imposing the organization’s more oppressive and offensive policies, it’s less likely that someone will just walk up and punch them in the nose. Standing up a xirl as the spokesblob also allows the real, and still mostly male, decision makers to continue… Read more »

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Pozy, so true. Along those lines, when a company appoints a woman and/or POC as the CEO, there is probably something in the compay, that they did or ignored, that made their situation a bad one. c.f. Mary Bara, GM, and the ignition switch fault. Two weeks after they gave her the gig, the bad thing blew up.

BadThinker
Guest
BadThinker

Hewlett Packard comes to mind.

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Guest
Ris_Eruwaedhiel

We are aware that Blacks are often put in charge of company, but they are just fronts for White decision-makers. Women, too.

It was pointed out that the first labor unions were in occupations that were strenuous and dangerous, such as working in mines and steel mills. Getting women to work in these jobs served the interest of the employers because the they were easier to push around. “You ladies don’t really want a pay increase, now do you?”

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

What we are seeing is what we have seen before, a great awakening and another category of poz’d profession. Medical doctors, once revered are now being seen as emotional actors, rather than rationale leaders. They’ve been elevated from their traditional position of healer of individuals to one they are entirely unsuited for, political leader of a polis. Our “hero’s” are rapidly shrinking. Just in my lifetime, news reporters were highly respected, e.g., Walter Cronkite. So were University Professors and such institutions of higher ed. Finally, the military. All now gone. And I suspect medical professions will not be the last… Read more »

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

With all due respect to Right Doctor and few others here, I never ‘revered’ medical professionals. They are not nearly as smart as they think they are and hate being proven wrong (which I’ve done to a number of them more than once). I think a healthy skepticism towards anyone in this life claiming to be an ‘expert’ is a good initial strategy. Any human heroes I may admire never, ever claimed to be such in life (all are dead White males).

Dinothedoxie
Guest
Dinothedoxie

I find myself focusing on the facial expressions of the sign language / break dancers – at these speeches. They’re fucking hilarious. Auto-parody of globohomo at its best.

Member

It would appear obvious that Dr. Anthony “chicken little” Fauci is an adviser type who needs a strong dose of the “perfect”* is the enemy of the good enough.

*Perfect to a public health commissar is that there be no consideration of economic consequences to their prescriptions.

NJ Person
Guest
NJ Person

Excellent point. It seems that Dr. Fauci has been appointed dictator of the U.S. The analogy would be giving a general dictatorial powers in the time of war. Where is the push back from the Treasury or Commerce?

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Guest
Ris_Eruwaedhiel

String him up like Mussolini.

Member

MSM does admiring “puff pieces” on Fauci. That’s a big strike against.

Brian
Guest
Brian

See the emails that Conservative Treehouse found of Fauci professing his love for Hitlary during the previous regime? It makes me wonder just how engineered this collapse is.

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

That man’s attitude and demeanor make me want to punch him – epitome of backpfeifengesicht.

Alzaebo
Guest

For newer readers:
backfeifengesicht- translation:
“A face that begs for the backfist”

Jim-bo-bo
Guest
Jim-bo-bo

If the 0-30 year olds recover from covid-19 handily, and the 65-80+ year olds have high death rate, then I think it appalling that we’re sacrificing the well-being, education, and emotional security of these young people that have not had their shot at life yet to save the older group that have had their shot, I would reason it time to thin the herd of the older ones (and, I might add, patheticly selfish and self centered)….get this country back to work for the youth ..it’s the least we can do….P.S. I’m 70

Lawdog
Member

Yes, it is appalling. We the future are sitting at home, severed from our economy and sense of civic productivity.

abprosper
Guest
abprosper

Valuing civic productivity implies there is a society meriting it. Otherwise working hard just means the wealth created by your work is tapped off to be used to aid people who hate you whether that is a foreign state or a foreign ideology. And yeah sure all the tax revenue we take in just barely pays for social security , Medicare and the military not the point. The Federal government at least isn’t the biggest source of our woes and in a perfectly Ron Paul kind of State , i.e minimal there would possibly be even more money for the… Read more »

ChetRollins
Guest
ChetRollins

Found it amusing reading younger people who are up at arms because the elderly are not taking this seriously.

The impression I get around the elderly over 70 is that a large percentage are at peace with the thought of dying, and don’t see a reason to upend their lives or destroy the lives of their children for a few more years of living.

Drake
Guest
Drake

My SIL is furious with her parents for not living in a bunker. Her parents, particularly her father have the “oh, well” approach and are ignoring her advise. Her Dad already has some issues and has flatly refused doctor’s orders to eat nothing but rabbit-food for his remaining years.

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Guest
Ris_Eruwaedhiel

We Boomers have lived to see endless predictions of the imminent end of the world.

“It’s the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.” Baby Boomer pop cultural reference.

Jim-bo-bo
Guest
Jim-bo-bo

Then it’s high time we speak up ….didn’t the Native American elder refuse assistance when they felt too weak to help the tribe?
They simply stayed behind to make the tribe stronger….

1UnknownSubject
Guest
1UnknownSubject

Talked to my father about this – he is 74. He is not in fear, he knows death is coming in the future and he has accepted his mortality.

greyenlightenment
Guest

we don’t need terrorists to destroy America. we got mayors and politicians and the media for that

NJ Person
Guest
NJ Person

I am 70 and agree. I will take my 5% (or whatever it is) chance if that means we all can return to normal.

Lawdog
Member

When I am 70, I hope I’m like you.

george 1
Guest
george 1

I am older myself Jim-bo-bo. On CTH I told them that I did not want the economy wrecked for younger people in order that people my age might have a slightly better chance of survival. I think my generation needs to cowboy up.

I was promptly accused of being irresponsible and of wanting death camps.

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

george 1 – ah yes, the death camps/death panels gambit. So original, you know. Daily Mail online was promoting a story about a 95 year old Italian woman who survived Corona (after being hospitalized since 5 March). I’m sorry to whomever I offend, but that’s an utterly irresponsible waste of resources and time and talent in a supposed ‘medical crisis.’ All those Christians who profess they can’t wait to meet Jesus are running around petrified (and I’m repeating this from a friend who is, herself, an extremely devout Christian) and sowing disorder and confusion. Typical AWFLs.

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Guest
Ris_Eruwaedhiel

A friend’s mother in her 70s at the time (Greatest Generation) was diagnosed with cancer, but she refused to fight it because, she said, she would be with her husband and the Lord.

There’s an attitude among conservative Christians that they are morally obligated to cling to life no matter what. Right to Life now includes attempting to outlaw death.

Fluella De Vil
Guest
Fluella De Vil

No, Right to Life doesn’t attempt to outlaw death. You have misunderstood, at least on the Catholic side.
“Man is not the master of life, but should use all fitting means to prolong life. If the means to prolong life are not fitting or if they impose an excessive burden, they need not be utilized.”
“God does not desire us to be interested in a long life; he wishes us to be interested in a good life.”
“It is one thing to kill oneself; it is a different thing to not prolong life.”
https://opcentral.org/resources/2014/09/05/the-catholic-tradition-on-forgoing-life-support/
See also:
http://cmq.org.uk/CMQ/2011/2-must-life-be-prolonged.html

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

Ris – that’s precisely what I said last week and got a lot of pushback. Just as GWB started endless wars against intangible ‘terror,’ Trump has been talked into a war on ‘disease’ and ultimately death. This idea that every single death is a tragedy, no matter what age or circumstances, is obscene. Again, my friend is as sincere a Christian as you’ll find and yet very much a dissident too, and she was specifically disgusted with all her Christian friends and customers panicking about wuflu. She has elderly parents with all the other ailments that would make them susceptible,… Read more »

Federalist
Guest
Federalist

Our government decision makers have decided to lead us into a panic. They are failing as decision makers but they won’t be replaced by good decision makers.

By Z’s definition, decision makers are comfortable taking responsibility for their actions and are aware of the fact that their decisions have consequences for others. Government officials imposing this lockdown won’t take responsibility for the consequences. So, our problem is that we don’t have people that fit the definition of decision makers making decisions.

joey junger
Guest
joey junger

This is definitely not the time to panic, but it is the time to note who is capable of acting in a panic-inducing situation and who isn’t. Each one of these waves of zoonotic viruses (whether sprung from Chinese wet markets or the rain forest) has basically been scaffolding on the previous one, becoming stronger. This thing will probably go away after killing a non-negligible but non-critical amount of the population, but it’s possible some virus that stands on the figurative shoulders of this one really brings the pain and separates the men from the boys (and reminds women they’re… Read more »

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

The problem is that the trade-offs are different for different groups. The personal trade-offs for the politicians are very different from the trade-offs for the economy. Same goes for the fed and the people that work there. What may not be great for Joe Blow worker or small business owner might be great for a governor.

In a democracy comprised of BOTH various ethnic/racial/religious/culture groups and an elite that don’t consider themselves connected to the people, you will have very different trade-offs for each decision.

Drake
Guest
Drake

Ruin the economy + get reelected = good trade-off.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

Don’t forget. The politician can then “save” the economy using other people’s money but get all of the credit.

Screwtape
Guest
Screwtape

Citizen, yes that is a great observation.

Just like how corporations larping toward diversity, inclusion, and other wokeness ends up eroding the misssion as rogue factions and functions vying for power and resources leverage the external power of globohomo to extort and manipulate from within.

Reminds me of the whole “not who we are!” The entire question of “we” is refracted into a thousand rays of conflicting values and agendas.

Meanwhile…

Friday. The economy: not who we are!

Monday. The economy: who we are!

Trump: “in 15 days WE will decide who we are”.

FashGordon
Guest
FashGordon

Case and point Cuomo.

Yves Vannes
Member

This genie is out if the bottle forever. From now on every flu season will be treated as a potential shoah if it allows a group or individual to play one-upsmanship.

G Lordon Giddy
Guest
G Lordon Giddy

Get the medical “experts” off the stage and toughen up. We ain’t China and we ain’t gonna run around with masks on letting our loved ones die alone in a nursing home.
While our government turns into a totalitarian Cuomo led shit show.
We are the west.
Start acting like it.
We cannot crash the world economy over this. That trade off is not worth it.
This is not Antietam and not Iwo Jima.
It’s the damn flu.
Have we become that pussified??
Get a grip.

FashGordon
Guest
FashGordon

It’s far too late for that. The train has left the station. I think you forget how soft and fearful the modern man is. Hopefully the ensuing great depression will toughen us up.

Lawdog
Member

I don’t think it’s too late. Put some heat on the softies and they harden like clay. Or melt like ice…

abprosper
Guest
abprosper

The hope is that this will be a short term enough situation that helicopter money can keep the system running since the other option is to utterly destroy the US health care system. That is the real risk and frankly it may well be a poor choice. Problem is you chose the other and we lose say 3% from Corona Chan, proportionate casualties to WW2 BTW but a hell of a lot more people over decades as the health care system falls apart. Life expectancy would tank for everybody and simply we can’t fix it after./ Assuming enough adults were… Read more »

Moran ya Simba
Guest
Moran ya Simba

The same applies to people who say things like “we need to implement strict measures to slow the spread.” If that were true, it would have happened as soon as the virus was detected. This doesn’t compute at all. It assumes a level of competence in government for which there is naught evidence. The observations about types of men is mildly amusing and generally true but not really a central point right now. What I see happening here is denial that an infectious micron just kicked in the door to the ‘Flamin’ Twenties’ and your, understanable, desire to not crash… Read more »

Jack Dobson
Guest
Jack Dobson

” intelligence people, health officials and others”

They forfeited all trust after 9/11, WMD and a failed coup attempt. If their response is the correct one, and let’s just say it is for the sake of argument, that makes the distrust they previously have sown all the worse.

Member

Dobson: “intelligence people, health officials and others”…”They forfeited all trust after 9/11”. So, in your mind, a small but influential cabal of Neocons in 2001 represent what the whole of intel & health officialdom is and forever will be? Many of you see personal Distrust as a higher state of being and intelligence.

Jack Dobson
Guest
Jack Dobson

The neocons and Deep State, and, no, this isn’t about flashing intellectual prowess. It’s a simple recognition of reality. The federal government has forfeited all right to be be trusted. If people are economically devastated by what proves to be a gross overreaction, the United States government very well could be toppled and at a minimum quite a bit of power will be devolving to the individual states probably even now–unless draconian measures are implemented that use the military to police America, which I think is a distinct possibility. People are not going to live in a Hunger Games nation… Read more »

Member

The people issuing the official statements of the Soviet state in 1985 were certainly not the same as the ones who had that job decades before under Khrushchev or Stalin. Nonetheless the average Russian regarded them as such. It had simply become obvious over the decades that there was something fundamentally rotten in the way power was acquired and used in the USSR and that it was an integral part of the system that didn’t change when the name of the General Secretary did. It’s hard for those of us who remember 9/11, the Iraq war buildup, Afghanistan, the various… Read more »

FashGordon
Guest
FashGordon

If one thing has become clear to me it’s that the people ruling us now are the products of nepotism. They are the sons and daughters, perhaps grandsons and granddaughters of our conquerors. People who would have attained their status through merit would not be so damn stupid. I actually think this is great though. It will be much easier to replace them when things completely fall apart, and it seems like this is might happen very soon. I’m excited for current collapse.

Drake
Guest
Drake

The Governor of NJ was basically a glorified financial advisor. When you seem him on TV, you realize he is not a decision guy.

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Guest
Ris_Eruwaedhiel

What a dork Gov. Murphy is. Z has talked about the billionaire plutocrats who pull the strings of their puppet politicians. People like Mike Bloomberg.

greyenlightenment
Guest

this seems similar to vox day’s hierarchy

BadThinker
Guest
BadThinker

The SSH is generally applicable because it’s been around in some form or other for far longer than Vox Day has. Whyte’s “The Organization Man” and Morgan’s “Images of Organization” both talk about the kinds of people in human organizations / systems, and they roughly map to his SSH. Brave New World before that (which used Alpha, Beta, Delta, etc), and many, many others from time immemorial.

Hierarchy used to be common, assumed knowledge. You didn’t really need a ‘theory’ for it.

Member

SSH? I’m assuming this isn’t about logging into your webserver using secure shell.

Member

Ah, I get now why I’d considered you a total doorknob. Vox Day eh? Too funny.

Jack Boniface
Member

Imagine the horror if Hillary were making the decisions.

Screwtape
Guest
Screwtape

“What difference, at this point, does it make?”

Sandmich
Guest
Sandmich

Meh. I wouldn’t wish her rule on anyone, but she always bothered me less than Obama since she’s not ideological. For her it’s always about what’s best for Hillary; leftisim is a natural “ideology” for a criminal thief like herself, but she’d throw it all away in a heartbeat if she thought it was to her personal benefit.

Severian
Guest

For me, that’s the real tragedy — I’ve lost friends over this. They didn’t die from coronavirus. People I once thought were sober, reasonable, intelligent, responsible folks turned out to be shrieking ninnies. Crisis reveals character, and a lot of people I know failed. Badly.

Screwtape
Guest
Screwtape

Sev. Thats too bad. I had a lot of that in the first Trump election cycle.

If its any solace, I have taken to counting that as a blessing.

Learning that about your friends without being counter-party is much better than having to learn that in a foxhole with them.

Character, like the principles that construct it, doesn’t really exist until tested. And those tests that do not require an actual trade-off that stings don’t really count.

Character is like callused hands. When it comes time to really chop wood, the fear of blisters is nowhere to be found.

Severian
Guest

Screwtape, yeah, I try to look on the bright side. Pre-kung flu, these were the kind of folks I’d send my kids to (if I had kids). Even better: Often, they’re the ones who cut *me* off first, because I’m such a heartless bastard. “Do you really want to risk your mother for this?” No, I don’t, but… my mother’s in her 80s. She’s a tough old bird who takes all reasonable precautions (as do I). I’m sure as hell not going to wreck the world for my (theoretical) kids, or everyone else’e actual kids, to reduce her chances of… Read more »

Screwtape
Guest
Screwtape

With you on all that Sev. For me it was about their refusal or inability to see the evil at work, exposing their naked self-interest, relative to supporting parties and candidates and laws and programs that hate me and my culture and way of life. Just so they could look and feel good in their upscale neighborhood bbq as they cherry pick from the very things their beliefs are destroying because they have the money to do so. My mom (74) nearly died two years ago from a flu-pnumonia-sepsis-3 days in ICU and nobody, even the doctors, made a fuss… Read more »

Severian
Guest

There it is. One of my most hysterical ex-friends works in a college town deep in flyover country, in a teeny tiny burg that doubles its population when the students come back. It’s 99% White, 1% other. He gets paid regardless, and as for social isolation, see above – half the town is gone. Meanwhile, here I sit, on the edges of a major metro and its attendant Diversity. Give this lockdown another week, and I’ll be sitting up at night in front of my door with a loaded shotgun, watching the ‘hood burn. My ex-buddy, meanwhile, is griping that… Read more »

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

Screwtape – stay strong, pal. My situation isn’t quite as dire, as I deliberately put both physical and emotional distance between me and my parents/sibs. I have yet to even call my 90 year old mother because I cannot bear to hear the standard line she’s sure to be parroting (classic liberal-totalitarian FDR silent generation). My late mother-in-law, bless her, was fond of the aphorism re “Fish and visiting relatives stink after 3 days.”

Stranger in a strange land
Guest
Stranger in a strange land

…”Public policy is always about trade-offs. This is true in the easy times and it is true in the terrible times. There are no cost-free solutions to problems”…. Agree with the first two sentences. However, when it comes to ‘no cost-free solutions’, in the current bizzaro-world of public policy the concept of ‘cost’ – at least in financial terms you and I might understand – I doubt has any relvenance. When a +/- $2 trillion stimulus is bandied about, and then is rejected because it’s still not enough – it might as well be a bazillion, or gazillion dollars stimulus.… Read more »

Screwtape
Guest
Screwtape

Speaking of two cents. That will be my tax contribution for 2019.

I figure if the empire can create money from thin air they don’t need 30% of mine. Seems silly to even go through the motions. But I’m tempted to mail my two pennies to Fresno just to make someone deal with it.

Real money taxation and fake money printing is one of the greatest feats of TPTB.

Its also one of the more perverse examples of our anarcho-tyranny. Taxes or the business end of a gun for us. Money culled from the ether for them.

greyenlightenment
Guest

more lows for the market.. the panic is worse than the virus. lift the restrictions ,accept as that as many .5-1% of the us population will die, and get on with it . Crippling the economy to save a few thousand lives is bad policy

Deadlocked
Guest
Deadlocked

Your math doesn’t check out. 0.5 to 1% of the US population isn’t the few thousand lives you think we’re crippling the economy to save. It’s 1.6 to 3.3 million.

greyenlightenment
Guest

you ares assuming it will be that many if nothing is done

miforest
Guest
miforest

excellent breakdown . the guys over at the american sun have a great take on the limits of the change that will come out of this . https://theamericansun.com/2020/03/23/a-premature-celebration/

Alzaebo
Guest

Miforest, only 3 paragraphs in, jumped back to say this is really good stuff.

It starts out with Ferfal as an example; Argentina after its 2001 collapse is still standing, still corrupted, still with the same ruling class. Globalism didn’t die in the pampas.

2nd comment in:
“We are told to have 6 months saved in case of emergency. Many try very hard to achieve this. Meanwhile, corporate America declares insolvency after one month? Send the bastards packing. Rip the C-suiters out of their offices, strip them naked, and do that Game of Thrones thing.”

SamlAdams
Guest
SamlAdams

Spent most of the last twenty years in the “adviser” role to C-level execs. Do a fair amount of shot-calling, but the primary objective is to cut through fog and bad information. Right now we’re operating in a very short cycle OODA loop–and as with all good strategy–it’s not about how good the plan is, but how fast you adjust to new information. All “C’s” come with distinct strengths and weaknesses and you have to size those up quickly and fill the gaps. That is what is interesting about watching how Trump and the governors deal with COVID–inherently a hugely… Read more »

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Guest

Poor John Boyd.

Tarstarkusz
Guest
Tarstarkusz

The leftists are coming out of the woodwork trying push through all the evil things they want to do, allegedly to “flatten the curve” There is a spate of articles about releasing all those non-violent good boys who dindu nuffin and just happen to be sitting in jail because they are black or brown and cops were picking on them. They are even pushing for releasing people from prison! My governor is considering releasing a bunch of “old” prisoners and all the allegedly “non violent” felons who committed enough serious crime to get sent up-state. Of course, none of these… Read more »

Drake
Guest
Drake

Richard Pryor: “thank God we got penitentiaries!”

Member

Within bounds, I don’t think the prisoner release thing is a big deal. If Trump could say a few low-key words in support of it, it may help him with the minority vote. Or at least they’ll not see him as the racist MSM portrays him as. Anyway, I don’t see it as a big deal because in certain communities, often the only difference between prisoners, and their brethren who are still free to roam around, is some got caught, and the others haven’t yet.

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

The prisoners being freed, if a random selection or so, would seem to be dumping violent criminals back onto the street. To assume that these folk go back and prey on their communities (true to an extent) ignores the mountain of evidence that minority on White crime is the significant cause of White victimhood. So perhaps the Black guy who mugs me, has mugged 5 Black folks in the same week—how am I benefited? Yeah, it sucks to live in the hood, but it also sucks to be White when the odds of your being assaulted grow by 50-80% when… Read more »

Tarstarkusz
Guest
Tarstarkusz

YEP! Yeah, maybe it will harm more “Browns” than whites, but that’s their problem, not ours, at least it shouldn’t be our problem.

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Guest

Arm
Yourself

Tarstarkusz
Guest
Tarstarkusz

Alleged right wingers have been capitulating to the left in order to not “look racist” and win the “minority vote” for decades. Where it has gotten us?
Prisons exist for a good reason. Crime never stays in the hood. Before prison we used to just execute people for serious crimes. Until we start doing that again, prisons are the next best thing.

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Guest

Honestly if you are around “the community” unarmed and unwary you are A Candidate for the Darwin Award.

ConservativeFred
Guest
ConservativeFred

It is very difficult, even in the private sector, to wait before making a decision. In a high-functioning business, the first question asked should be “are we sure of the data?” While waiting to confirm the accuracy of the data, the second question should be what are the contingency plans (reviewing the trade-offs). Of course, this is also a danger because it is difficult to look at an array of options and delay a decision. The third question should be, “are we absolutely sure of the data.” During my career, 70% – 80% of the issues presented melted away because… Read more »

Balkan Fanatic
Guest
Balkan Fanatic

Trade-Offs What trade-offs? When you can issue 4T out of tin air there is no trade offs When you can shift the heavy burden of your stupidity and cowardice on those yet to be born what are the trade offs? Every single screeching effeminate asshole running scared has no problem with that as long as he survives and does not have to pay They will teach you how selfish you are while accepting this without a single sting of consciousness, they will be hoarding toilet paper and anything else while telling how terrible is to not think about your elders… Read more »

Jesco White
Guest
Jesco White

Did anyone else notice Fractional Reserve Banking just ended? Reserve requirements are now 0% meaning a bank doesn’t need customers (deposits) to make infinite loans. I find the cashless society conspiracy folks amusing. You mean to say a society that can’t successfully implement a credit score system and stick to its repercussions (black people not being loan worthy) is going to up the ante to a social credit system? China is openly communist and 80% Han. The United States has a huge black market economy that would collapse without cash. Notice that India banned large denominated cash notes but allows… Read more »

Mark Stoval
Guest
Mark Stoval

How Coronavirus Cases in The U.S. Are Going to Explode Out of Nowhere — By Bill Sardi https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/03/no_author/how-coronavirus-cases-in-the-u-s-are-going-to-explode-out-of-nowhere/ This is a very good article for anyone to read who wants some perspective. Note the chart at the bottom is from The American Lung Association. Big Pharma and big Medicine is driving this hysteria. I can not believe that anyone who has studied how the seasonal flu works and studied who makes the most money off of the pain of the masses can not see how this “pandemic” is just a seasonal outbreak. Once people get out in the sun it… Read more »

JR Wirth
Guest
JR Wirth

The only Lawyer on TV who had talent, now retired, was Gerry Spence. You may recognize him as the Wyoming lawyer who dresses the part.

Exile
Member
Exile

As celebrity esquires go, Spence is the least noxious and some of his advice for trial lawyers is pretty sound (if fairly obvious for the most part).

Member

I think he died about 15 years ago but I could be wrong. Hard to track who’s still alive or dead in the 70 to 90 celebrity age group.

Member

IIRC, he defended Randy Weaver.

JR Wirth
Guest
JR Wirth

Clearly the trade-offs weren’t mentioned in this national shutdown over grandpa’s flu. When we’re eating ketchup soup in a year maybe we’ll think this was an overreaction. Only the gyrating spring break kids on the Florida beaches will be seen as the ones with any sense.

Alzaebo
Guest

Ketchup soup!
(I’ve done that. Don’t tell nobody.)

Only way I’ll eat Campbell’s tomato soup is cold, right out of the can. Love it that way.
That’s how we dun et while irrigating or bailing hay in the Nevada outback.

Those Indian or Mexican cowboys around the campfire, who lived on the range- their bandy legs were bowed like fiddles, and looked as strong as banded steel from being in the saddle all day.

JR Wirth
Guest
JR Wirth

Maybe the preponderance of octogenarians running the show in this country has skewed much of the response. Rand Paul could potentially wipe out half the Senate (if we’re lucky).

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

JR Wirth – I always regretted that flight 93 didn’t make a direct hit on the Capitol building. Perhaps Corona is a second chance? One can only hope.

Exile
Member
Exile

Glibness, rush to judgment and oversimplification are symptoms of the processor overload we suffer. Faced with a problem you can’t solve based on information you can’t rely on, you can either go into a wait-state or take relatively uninformed action. Our nepot overlords have rarely been tested under fire and tend to either turtle or tilt at windmills. Few can hold two seemingly conflicting ideas in their head at the same time – a vital skill for reaching good faith compromise and operating in an uncertain situation. Few can approach a problem from multiple angles instead of “all we have… Read more »

Yves Vannes
Member

Ivan Illich, Deschooling Society: Many students intuitively know what the schools do for them. They school them to confuse process and substance. Once these become blurred, a new logic is assumed: the more treatment there is, the better are the results; or, escalation leads to success. The pupil is thereby “schooled” to confuse teaching with learning, grade advancement with education, a diploma with competence, and fluency with the ability to say something new. His imagination is “schooled” to accept service in place of value. Medical treatment is mistaken for health care, social work for the improvement of community life, police… Read more »

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Guest

That’s the point if our education; crop the tall poppies.

TomA
Guest
TomA

In a properly functioning cauldron of competition, the fittest will rise to the top of any organization (it’s evolution damnit). But in a dysfunctional society in which conformity, whining, and grift are rewarded, sociopaths are typically elevated into the role of decisionmaker. As example, see political class in DC (hello Pelosi, AOC, Maxine Waters etc). As a nation, we are in dire straits not because of a new virus, but because we habitually elect the worst among us to lead.

Exile
Member
Exile

This is exactly the situation where free market democracies perform most poorly. A pandemic is not the time for 1000 innovative approaches and consumer choice – it’s a time for consistent, regimented and persistent response. Given the inconsistency in responses from city to state to nation so far, it’s going to be very hard to sort signal from noise in evaluating the best strategies for the future. Z has a lot of good material from the last 2 years in posts and pods re: the problems of democracy. This situation exemplifies most of them. We can debate whether to entirely… Read more »

Stranger in a strange land
Guest
Stranger in a strange land

Somewhere in all the comments the old Mencken quip seems to apply.
To wit: Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.

Alzaebo
Guest

The Conservative decision process: wait, wait, I’ve got it! Let’s jail the pot smokers!

Then we can get to bombing Papua New Guinea.

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Guest

In NY state we have the one size fits all solution, and we must apply it. Because its the only way Cuomo can get Raccoon City shut down, where most of the cases are. The mayor is a useless train wreck and didn’t do it, he blames Trump. (There has never been any love lost between Cuomo and DeBlasio). So now we in the sticks with 4 isolated at home cases are as shut down, more so I daresay than NYC. This bode not well, Western NY state is Northern West Virginia with the guns, angry Scotch-Irish and militia to… Read more »

BadThinker
Guest
BadThinker

This is the theory but not the practice. The sociopath rises (as you said), not the fittest, and then proceeds to loot the organization. *Especially* when the penalty for bad behavior is not, say, death, like in Feudal societies. The King was on his best behavior because all the Dukes think they’d be a better king.

The other problem is defining ‘fittest’ for an organization. We’re really bad at that.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Early decisions (and lack of a decision is a decision in and of itself) create entirely different menus of decisions and stances later on. All the woulda-coulda after the fact is pointless. One of the essences of making a decision, early or late, is to visualize the menu of choices, later on, that the decision is likely to put on the table.

I am guessing that good chess players and improv musicians have this skill set in abundance, if it translates to other areas.

M. B. Lamar
Guest
M. B. Lamar

So now the Uniparty has ceded control of the senate to the Dem wing, via Coronavirus quarantines of 5 senators. What’s next? Do they just go full bore, nullify the constitution and merge to form the CCP-West? It seems like end game is upon us, and anything can happen.

Guest
Guest
Guest

McConnell has scheduled a second vote for today at 1:45PM. If he has any cajones he will bring the infected Republican Senators into the chamber for the vote, march them up and down through the Democrat benches, and have each infect Senator hug and kiss a Democrat and spit in their coffee.

Member

One reason why nobody comes between my large Dunkin Donuts’ 1 cream with two sugars and my lips.

Member

Dissidents do not need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. The wind cries Mary. Trust no one.

Vegetius
Guest
Vegetius

Don’t just do something, stand there.

Exile
Member
Exile

As good a time as any to shame-circle myself for all the times Libertarian Me snarked for a government that did nothing. Libertarian Me never saw how muh markets, muh free citizenry and muh NAP would play out vs. something like Corona-Chan.

We’re fortunate that this virus isn’t something as panic-inducing as ebola. Religious Me is thinking this might be a heads-up from our metaphysical head office to shape up or get shipped out.

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

Well Ebola was a real threat wrt fatality rate. Two sides of the equation I suspect. I might agree with the present prescription wrt pandemic if the disease was Ebola. But I admit, my knowledge of that disease is limited, as for that matter was that of CoronaChan initially.

Member

Exile, is there any conception of the NAP that forecloses your right to terminate Tyrone for daring to enter your home without your consent?

Of course, writ large, the NAP is useless if we aren’t prepared to punish those who violate it.

Member

My neighbor dude is a brainiac with a brainiac job. Super nice couple. They said if you need any food let us know. I said thanks, if you need any guns & ammo let me know. Wife said “We have a few of Frank’s grandfather’s shotguns, but no ammo, heheh.” Husband is sweet guy and easygoing (and I detect very Liberal), He surely never contemplated people swarming into his nice house. That would be Wrongthink. He probably used to chuckle at cocktail parties and low-key brag about owning heirloom shotguns but no ammo. Anyway, Liberals or not I’ll look out… Read more »

Member

I won’t loan out guns and ammo to people too stupid to already have them.

greyenlightenment
Guest

how a huge business bailout and $1000 checks supposed to help when ppl cannot go outside or being told to self-quarantine? That eliminates whatever little fiscal multiplier there is. The common argument is that this is temporary until things improve, but what if they don’t. Will we just keep doing this month after month? This whole thing is stupid beyond belief.

Screwtape
Guest
Screwtape

We can go outside as long as we stay 6’ apart. Parks are open, playgrounds and basketball and tennis courts closed. Groceries and all other basic services open. The liquor and weed shops were absolutely swarmed this afternoon as thy close 8pm tonight for some weeks. All our ‘shelter in place’ has done is elevate the panic in the already hysterical shitlib bugmen and harpies. My GF’s friend had to start taking anti-anxiety meds. She is out of work – but mostly voluntarily because she is afraid of corona death and wont give private massages to even those willing. Some… Read more »

S. Bishop
Guest
S. Bishop

Can’t wait for Joe Pro Quo to begin his daily briefings on the pandemic. I wonder if he’ll take questions?

I need some levity to help me survive my ‘house arrest’ sentence.

Member

More Joe, particularly off-the-cuff, extemporizing Joe, would be welcome relief.

sirlancelot
Guest
sirlancelot

A few decades of political correctness and affirmative action has produced our so-called leaders. Even if a white man wanted to step forward and be an effective leader they would be pulled down by the mystery meat and lesbo crowd.

The so-called current crisis could be used as a good dress rehearsal. When the real thing hits we will be on our own.

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Guest

Dear Lancelot,

This is the real thing.
We won’t regrettably be on our own.
Do rest assured, being alone will be quite the luxury.

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Guest

Speaking of performers, I wonder if Dr. Fauci (aka Dr AIDS) realizes he’s been set up yet. Of course I’m out here in the sticks and folks round here are shaking their heads, bemused. Dr. Fauci plays to his audience; well heeled but ill bred upper middle class urbanites- just as he did with AIDS. He oversaw the massive redistribution of all research money away from diabetes and cancer to HIV/AIDS. I wonder if that has anything to do with vaccines being neglected? I wonder if the Grandstanding Chump knows Trump has set him up. This is a strain of… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest

OT, but I made it through the fumigation line and the delousing station, so I’d like to trade in a luxury good:

The promised 6 million doses will turn out to be 270,000 in the actual count.

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Guest

Look Wuhan is major supply chain center. Corps and the banks they owe were about to take major hit. Media is corporate owned, basically its 4 companies; AT&T, COMCAST, DISNEY. Of course Amazon Bezos is always leveraged to the hilt, and he owns WAPO. So the hysteria by media is self serving. So far to the tune if $4 Trillion $. But.. it set off a panic. So mass quarantines. So now recession for sure, maybe Depression. And yes they all hate Trump but its past that now cuz they need him. Sure the fear is real. There is real… Read more »

Andy Texan
Guest

It seems to me that we are looking south across the Rubicon. The time to cross that river is near at hand. Maybe next week. I believe the Trump government will order the end of the shelter at home business and the democrat states and cities will refuse. They will be in rebellion. What then should be done? I have my own favorite actions.

MikeatMikedotMike
Guest
MikeatMikedotMike

Late to this party, but I’d like to amend this statement based upon my own experience: “Then there are the executors, who carry out the decisions made by the decision makers, often relying on the special knowledge of the directors.” In my world the “executors” are known as operators, and we carry out the tasks that directly result in revenue and profit for the company, often in spite of the lack of knowledge of the directors. There’s a meme floating around with a picture of a nice looking young lady shrouded in a complete set of brand new PPE on… Read more »