Perspective

In a very general way, you can divide men up into four categories, based on their role in an organization. In one group you have the decision makers, the people who sit at the top, making decisions for the organization. Then there is the adviser type, who specializes in an area and advises the decision maker. Then there are the executors, who carry out the decisions made by the decision makers, often relying on the special knowledge of the directors. Then, of course, there is everyone else.

Depending upon the arc of your life, the first time most people meet a decision maker is when they get into the work world or maybe in the military. Maybe at your first job out of college you got introduced, along with the other new hires, to one of the senior executives in the company. Perhaps it was in the service when you were in the same room with a senior officer. You did not have to know you were in the presence of decision maker, as you just knew it. They were different.

The fact is, people who make decisions are different. These are people comfortable taking responsibility for their actions. They are also aware of the fact that their decisions have consequences for others. Senior officers put men into harm’s way, senior executives decide the fate of the company and business owners have the welfare of their employees to consider. People good at this role, comfortable with it, have a different air about them. Their power level is obvious.

The adviser role is often where decisions makers are cultivated, but some men are best suited to be seconds. Look around at careers and it is not unusual to see a decision maker have a very short turn in the adviser role. It was just a resume builder, not a training ground. The people best at this role enjoy mastering a narrow area and being the guy relied upon to advise on it. They are also the type of people who have to be reminded that perfection is the enemy of the good enough.

The execution layer is where most people spend their lives. They either give orders to everyone else or they take orders like everyone else. They may not like the policies and procedures handed down to them, but they value the need to follow orders and maintain those policies and procedures. This layer will often get called on by decision makers to tell them how those policies are working. They are the first to see the real-world consequences of the decisions made at the top.

Now, life being what it is, few people like to walk around advertising the fact they are just a person who takes orders. The military solves this by forcing everyone to advertise their status on their uniform. Corporations have floors to let everyone know their status in the firm. Out in the wild, people are free to fake it. This is obvious on-line, where people often wildly overstate their status. There are more top-shelf attorneys on Twitter than anywhere on earth. It is the same with every profession.

Events often reveal the reality of people’s role. These are people who were able to get away with speaking in generalities about their supposed subject, but are revealed to have only a superficial understanding of it. This is most amusing with the legal experts that turn up on cable chat shows. Much of what these people say is nonsense, because they never actually practiced law. Those that did, ended up in the television studio, because they were not very good at being a lawyer.

We see this with the coronavirus and the subsequent lock-downs. The people beginning with “all we have to do” are people who have never made a decision. Most likely, they have never been in the same room where a decision is made. If the answer is easy or obvious, there is no need for a decision maker or his advisers. Those decisions get made by the execution layer. When the answer is obvious, it means people at the top anticipated it and established rules for such a situation.

A similar rule applies to those starting sentences with “We need to do” followed by their preferred approach. Anyone who has been in a decision-making role has heard that many times, often thinking, “if that were true, you would not be telling me this.” This sort of thinking is what comes from people in that advisory role. Those people are not required to contemplate trade-offs. That’s not who they are or what they do. Their job is conjuring possible solutions for the boss.

Obviously, most of people in the media fall into the final category. They are the “everyone else”, people who just follow orders. In the case of pundits, opinion makers and influencers, they play the role assigned to them. The old guy kitted out like Mr. Chips is roll him on stage to play the part of the wise professor. The bookish looking young person plays the role of super-smart nerd. All of the people we see and hear in the mass media are performers, doing what they are told.

All of this is important to keep in mind in this crisis. When someone you think is pretty smart says, “all we have to do is quarantine the country for a month” you know you are dealing with someone who has never been in a room where decisions are made. They don’t know what they don’t know. The same applies to people who say things like “we need to implement strict measures to slow the spread.” If that were true, it would have happened as soon as the virus was detected.

Public policy is always about trade-offs. This is true in the easy times and it is true in the terrible times. There are no cost-free solutions to problems. Every problem presents a set of trade-offs. Decision makers know this and thus avoid million-dollar solutions to hundred-dollar problems. At least the good ones do. Those who rise to the top and fail are usually the ones who get the trade-offs wrong. In the coming months, we’re going to see a lot of that as the decision makers navigate what comes next.


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Tykebomb
Tykebomb
7 months ago

Look, all I’m saying is we have to nuke New York and California.

Now about this coronavirus, I have no idea.

Lawdog
Lawdog
Member
Reply to  Tykebomb
7 months ago

I hope Biden gets the virus. There’s just something about “Corona Joe” that tickles me.

SamlAdams
SamlAdams
Reply to  Lawdog
7 months ago

My theory as to why we haven’t seen him is he’s entered that stage of senility where he doesn’t believe he needs to wear pants in public.

Epaminondas
Member
Reply to  SamlAdams
7 months ago

You’ll know when he gets into uncontrollable hair-sniffing mode.

greyenlightenment
Reply to  Lawdog
7 months ago

that is real possibility but then you will get get sanders, who is possibly even a bigger threat to Trump than Joe

SamlAdams
SamlAdams
Reply to  greyenlightenment
7 months ago

Decent chance you will get Cuomo. Bernie’s appeal has a hard ceiling.

tonaludatus
tonaludatus
Reply to  SamlAdams
7 months ago

for almost a year now I have been telling my wife that the man to watch getting on a white horse in shiny armor is Terry McAuliffe the CCC (creepiest crypto clinton)

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Reply to  SamlAdams
7 months ago

Cuomo has matured, and Frankly I have little to fault with him except not shutting down Raccoon City- and that’s because DeBlasio was in the way. In the end Cuomo had to shut down the state. Just to get Westchester and NYC.

Member
Reply to  Lawdog
7 months ago

I see him campaigning in a giant sombrero and wearing a t-shirt with a picture of an anthropomorphized virus particle holding a beer.

Member
Reply to  Tykebomb
7 months ago
Lawdog
Lawdog
Member
Reply to  RDittmar
7 months ago

ARCHIMEDES! HOT DOG!

Yves Vannes
Yves Vannes
Member
Reply to  RDittmar
7 months ago

If only….following the lead of today’s first comment.

Lawdog
Lawdog
Member
7 months ago

But isn’t participating in (some) arbitrary measures to slow the spread just good optics?

They are terrified of this virus and want to comfort themselves. That in mind, I’m willing to do a few silly things to allay a normie’s anxiety.

But that doesn’t mean I’m fine with sitting in this quarantine for a damn month.

BadThinker
BadThinker
Reply to  thezman
7 months ago

I’ve always said that government is best explained by the British sitcom Yes, Minister. From “Power to the People”, the Politican’s Fallacy: “We must do something; This is something; Therefore, we must do it.”

Lawdog
Lawdog
Member
Reply to  thezman
7 months ago

So you’re against making the smaller concessions for the sake of public comfort?

joey junger
joey junger
Reply to  thezman
7 months ago

It’s like Jake Gittes said in “Chinatown.” “As little as possible…”

Reply to  thezman
7 months ago

One of the things I always say is that more tragedies have been perpetuated by the phrase “But we’ve got to do SOMETHING” than just about anything else. Doing nothing is often the best choice. As we say in engineering, perfect is the enemy of the good. See 9/11, which gave us the useless Department of Homeland Security, the Gropenfuhrers of the TSA and two pointless wars against inbred, bloodthirsty degenerates who worship a moon god. I remember when I learned guitar, it was reasonably easy to get to 90 percent of where I wanted to be as a player.… Read more »

S. Bishop
S. Bishop
Member
Reply to  Dr_Mantis_Toboggan_MD
7 months ago

Sort of like the medical profession (used to be) oath – ‘first, do no harm…’

Brian
Brian
Reply to  thezman
7 months ago

So pick something that needs to be done anyhow that is plausibly related to the crisis of the day. Border control, for starters.

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Reply to  Brian
7 months ago

They picked $4 Trillion in free money to the banks.

As far as border control; DONE!
We now have internal border controls.

Notice how plausible it all is.
And from the point of view of the decision makers – it really needed to be done.

tonaludatus
tonaludatus
Reply to  thezman
7 months ago

Z thezman, not to disagree with anything you say am just wondering how would you know in a “popperian” sense that you are right and the POTUS and his admin are making the wrong decisions, or if you wish the other way around.

Xman
Xman
Reply to  thezman
7 months ago

Calvin Coolidge is reported to have said “If you see ten problems coming down the road at you and you do nothing, nine will probably end up in the ditch and then you’ll only have to deal with one.” May be apocryphal, I don’t know, but it certainly fits with Coolidge’s overall worldview. Doing something stupid as opposed to doing nothing is only valued in a feminized, hysterical, infantile society, not a society of free and independent men. Machiavellian politicians know this, and consequently they always try to manipulate the “do something” hysteria to fit a pre-existing agenda. Nowhere is… Read more »

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Reply to  thezman
7 months ago

Prior to COVID Mr.Z the credit lines of corporations and the Stock market, banks were into crazy town levels heading for a correction.

Then Just In Time Wuhan hit.

The Stupid people who hyped this got their masters $4 Trillion in “Liquidity” injections. Like Heroin you always need more injections.

But then the hype became mass hysteria; and the government must act. So it did; It just TSA-d the entire country. For those to young to remember flying was once easier.

Who’s stupid Z?

Johnmark7
Johnmark7
Reply to  thezman
7 months ago

Z Man seems to ignore the gray areas in decision making about the Wuflu crisis. Everything now is a shoulda woulda coulda. If the Chinese had done this we wouldn’t have to do that. If the president had done this we wouldn’t now be doing the other. This situation is a damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Z Man is wildly optimistic that this is a mere panic and over-reaction. The Z Man’s proposed trade off is that a million or more Americans dead is worth it for the economy’s sake. But I thought the economy existed… Read more »

FashGordon
FashGordon
Reply to  thezman
7 months ago

I’m no economist but it seems like with a QE bubble this big, a depression was inevitable anyway. This may be youth and inexperience talking but I’m cautiously optimistic, crisis and chaos creates opportunity for all sides. Not just theirs. The French Revolution was catalyzed by two main factors. A decadent and disconnected elite, and economic collapse punctuated by a food shortage. One ingredient has been present for decades, the other might be added to the pot shortly. I’m willing to tolerate a few terrible years if they pave the way for a potentially brighter future. Better a lot of… Read more »

FashGordon
FashGordon
Reply to  thezman
7 months ago

I don’t think it will be about memes at that point. If things do indeed devolve to the level of soup lines, I think it will be about pointing the finger at those responsible for leading us there.

Johnmark7
Johnmark7
Reply to  thezman
7 months ago

It is no falsehood that this disease is at least ten times the killer a usual flu is. You are ignoring Italy’s numbers which allowed the disease to quickly spread. Isolation is slowing the rate of the disease so now you et al are saying where’s the numbers. You expect the bubonic plague before you think this matters. If people don’t want small businesses to be crushed, they won’t be. You don’t think small businesses weren’t being crushed before this by govt and big Corps? State and Corp power will grow? It has grown already to the point that we… Read more »

Bill_Mullins
Member
Reply to  thezman
7 months ago

You needn’t have bothered with your final reply, ZMan. I doubt it even ruffled his hair as it went over.

Forever Templar
Forever Templar
Reply to  thezman
7 months ago

“The irony here is this particular post is about identifying people who have never been in a room where serious decisions are made.”

Heheheheh, being witness to what goes on in a head shed is an eye-opener. Realizing there almost never some Illuminati-like control mechanism in place made me wonder numerous times how civilization made it this far.

Johnmark7
Johnmark7
Reply to  thezman
7 months ago

Bullshit. You’re just making stuff up now, Ten times is the lowest estimate and most of those 300K you mention would not die within the year. You don’t know that. You don’t like what’s being done? Tough. This is the democracy you like to scorn for being a dumbocracy. The decision makers are doing — guess what? — they’re shutting things down and not being advised by the likes of you who prefers to get people killed while jobs and businesses can also be saved. You have no policy for this except to let people die and applaud your own… Read more »

Lawdog
Lawdog
Member
Reply to  Johnmark7
7 months ago

Don’t puff yourself up when you try to make a point. People will use your anger to discredit your argument, and often with success. You don’t know the potential extent of this depression. It’s not as dramatic as a plague, but that doesn’t mean it should be overlooked. Do you understand how many people are going to lose thirty years worth of labor? Their cars and properties? And because the virus is here to stay, the newly minted homeless will make perfect vectors for the disease. How the hell do you expect us to adequately address this plague with a… Read more »

Johnmark7
Johnmark7
Reply to  Johnmark7
7 months ago

Feb 12 – March 16
Total reported cases (2,449)
Hospitalization 20.7 – 31.4 %
ICU admission 4.9 – 11.5 %
Fatality 1.8 – 3.4 %
Age 45 – 54 fatality 0.5 – 2.6 %
55 – 64 fatality 2.7 – 4.9 %
65- 74 fatality 2.7 – 10.5%
75 – 84 fatality 10.4 – 27.3 %

Sure, go ahead and sneeze at these numbers.

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  thezman
7 months ago

I see an awful lot of people comparing this WuFlu thing and it’s projected death rate – to how many people die from the seasonal flu and things like car crashes. Now we’re supposed to believe that it’s ok to crash the economy to save some assumed number of lives – which I’ve never seen clearly elaborated upon (I never see PROJECTED deaths – I only see the media touting how many people have died so far – as if that really means anything in the bigger picture). Well here’s another thing to remember: When towers fell on 9/11 –… Read more »

Lawdog
Lawdog
Member
Reply to  thezman
7 months ago

I think that forswearing all of their sanitary rituals is bad optics. One day, they’ll publish a scientific study concluding that the dissident right is a motley of plague-breathing slobs. And people will believe them because the risk of death is real. So I’ll don a mask and “do my part.” It’s placating and easy. If it helps Aiden stand in line without cowering 8 feet behind me, whatever. That doesn’t mean I approve of this social and economic disruption, though. I went to the market today and people had to stand 6 feet away from each other. Nobody was… Read more »

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  Lawdog
7 months ago

It’ll be interesting to see if they lift it after 30 days…

ChetRollins
ChetRollins
Reply to  MemeWarVet
7 months ago

Trump is already testing the waters in Twitter with stopping the quarantines. I expect a gradual softening by the end of the week.

Of course, Trump can be insanely schizophrenic, so take with a grain of salt,

Lawdog
Lawdog
Member
Reply to  ChetRollins
7 months ago

I hope he does soften restrictions. But I predict it will not be that soon. I expect two more weeks of this, minimum.

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  Lawdog
7 months ago

Trump pointed to the ripcord but his phrasing is retarded as usual. “We” will decide”? Who is this we? The lack of leadership is just striking. I mean I don’t expect these clowns to look out for my interests but I do expect them to at least be men and take responsibility for actually making a decision. The ambiguity and schizo irrationality is worse than just making suboptimal – but at least definitive, choices. Meanwhile my greasy chosen gaypedo gov is hiding behind orange man bad. His pressers tell us nothing of value. Just a bunch of slippery qualifiers and… Read more »

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Screwtape
7 months ago

My Dad was career Federal Government, and he said “There are no honest generals, maybe some honest colonels.” And he retired in 1972! To all appearances, the situation has not improved in half a century.

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
7 months ago

Its worse
The old school wasn’t cowards
And they didn’t shrink from providing fire support
Or investigate their men for shooting during battle.

And as far as honesty; honestly they are poor in valor, but suspiciously rich in the worldly sense.

Lineman
Lineman
Reply to  Screwtape
7 months ago

Well said my Brother and which is why I push Community so hard which is why I’ve been absent from around here because I’m trying to practice what I preach and help fill in the gaps that others in my Community have…Hope you are well and have what you need to ride out this storm in whatever form it comes at us…

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  ChetRollins
7 months ago

I suspect Trump would like to put some daylight between his position and that of the (mostly Democratic) big-State governors who are completely shutting their states down.

Lawdog
Lawdog
Member
Reply to  MemeWarVet
7 months ago

Then hopefully the clouds of panic will break soon.

Dr. Dre
Dr. Dre
Reply to  MemeWarVet
7 months ago

Wait a minute. It was the a$$#%^&e Repub Gov of Ohio, a pretty big state, who started that ball rolling last week. He has a horrible female Pubic Health Director, too, who claims that they will have 100,000 cases/deaths there soon. She’s a big Planned P’hood proponent, too, and Gov DeWine, who is a huge pro-life guy — has 8 kids or something himself — managed to install this witch in his cabinet. I question his sanity. Also, his political creds as he was the only Gov to postpone the primary election there last week. No one gives a rat’s… Read more »

Al from da Nort
Al from da Nort
Reply to  Dr. Dre
7 months ago

Dre;

Louisiana too. First actually, they claim. See below.

Poll workers (largely nominally paid volunteers) in the remaining primaries were potentially exposed w/o masks, gloves and surface sanitizer because they must sit 12+ hours at a table while every voter steps up to them and must state their name and present ID (which must be handled) to get a ballot. Poll workers refused to show up in many states for that reason.

Perversely, his was one of the few closures that was *not* silly.

https://www.wdsu.com/article/live-updates-louisiana-secretary-of-state-discusses-covid-19-impacts-on-upcoming-primary/31475459#

Member
Reply to  Dr. Dre
7 months ago

I’ve already committed to voting for whoever is running against him in 2022 (assuming we’re holding elections by then). Democrat, National Socialist, LaRouchian, whatever. Failure that great has to be punished.

Drake
Drake
Reply to  ChetRollins
7 months ago

Watched some of his press conference yesterday. They are starting a very large scale trail with the malaria medicine and should know if it works as well as advertised within a week.
If it does work, I bet Trump has the feds order up billions of tablets, declares victory, and starts to wind it all down. If Governors want to keep their states locked down, they’ll be doing it without fed support.
That’s my hope…

Federalist
Federalist
Reply to  ChetRollins
7 months ago

But Trump isn’t really imposing the quarantines. It’s mostly governors and big city mayors who apparently can assume dictatorial powers on their own say so.

greyenlightenment
Reply to  Federalist
7 months ago

he has the biggest platform in the world and can address Congress. maybe he can implore them to stop . there is a supreme court. maybe it can be ruled unconstitutional?

Member
Reply to  Federalist
7 months ago

One of my YouTube gun channels reports that the Gov of NJ has shut down the NICS background check system in that state. I keep wondering how the state police haven’t gone to his office and arrested him yet. The system has also been shut down in Tennessee it seems.

Sandmich
Sandmich
Reply to  pozymandias
7 months ago

In Ohio gun stores are not “essential” and should be closed, liquor stores on the other hand are essential and should remain open.

Member
Reply to  Sandmich
7 months ago

I’ll drink to that. Anyway, if you don’t already own 10,000 rounds of ammo or so, you deserve your grasshopper award.

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Reply to  Vizzini
7 months ago

Thats true. Seriously there are guys out there with 1 million rounds.

In their house.

I mean brah – that’s neurotic, but there are worse things.

Calsdad
Calsdad

It’s not neurotic if you either buy when the prices are low – and sell to the retards when the prices are high (like right now)…… then it’s an “investment”. One that can reap pretty good rewards BTW. I don’t know what a case of .223 is going for right now because I haven’t checked. But if you buy right you can get 1000 rounds for about $350. I know when one of the Obama gun crusades was ongoing and everybody was buying everything gun related – 1000 rounds was being sold in some cases for as much as $700.… Read more »

Educated.redneck
Educated.redneck
Reply to  Vizzini
7 months ago

Oh yeah, Vizzini? If you dont have 100#+ of Pb and a smelter, you deserve a an honorary grasshopper award. (Jk)

Member
Reply to  Sandmich
7 months ago

Well yes, alcohol withdrawal can kill people whereas no one ever died because they couldn’t get a gun or ammo. Wait a minute…

Educated.redneck
Educated.redneck
Reply to  Federalist
7 months ago

The irony of someone with the handle “Federalist” poo-pooing local exercise of police powers in a way that diverges from the fedgov position is very amusing.

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Reply to  Educated.redneck
7 months ago

The only ones I can’t stand are people in the public sector with The Fountainhead enshrined in their office.

Ryan was that way.

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  Federalist
7 months ago

CA, with a population of 40 million and the fifth or sixth largest economy in the world, home to 4-5 of the top 20 research universities in the world, an agricultural production area larger than several other states and nations’ entire land mass, two of the largest and busiest deepwater ports in the world, a massive tourism industry, the birthplace of aerospace and technology and entertainment, the largest taxable workforce in the country, one of the busiest land border crossings in the world, and all of the smartest and best looking people in the world outside of maybe Manhattan is… Read more »

FashGordon
FashGordon
Reply to  Screwtape
7 months ago

Best looking people? Smartest? Have you ever been to cali? 25% of our population can’t even pass a HS equivalency exam. Don’t form your opinions based on what the media says. What they present to you is almost always the inversion of reality.

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  FashGordon
7 months ago

Lol fashy, i spent 20 years in the golden state. It was sarc-satire. From boilerplate CA chamber of commerce with a little hollyweird vanity tossed in for giggles.

When I was starting my career in LA I spent most of my evenings working on pitchbooks for deals and these economic overviews became forever seared in my brain. All the magic kingdom stuff.

But yeah, its a Mexican outpost coasting on fumes of yesterday men. I earned most of my opinions the hard way.

greyenlightenment
Reply to  ChetRollins
7 months ago

Trump will do what he normally does when confronted with such an option, he will look into it. He does not want to be blamed for increased deaths and cases, which may hurt his reelection, but the death count will rise anyway. Quarantines, shutdowns, and other stuff not working. No need to destroy the economy to save maybe few thousand elderly lives.

S. Bishop
S. Bishop
Member
Reply to  greyenlightenment
7 months ago

Losing “a few thousand elderly lives” is OK. How about a few 10s of thousand? Or maybe 10 million? I’m glad you bracketed the acceptable level of results at plus or minus a few thousand.

Math is hard.

greyenlightenment
Reply to  S. Bishop
7 months ago

increasing resources to corona means resources are diverted form things that my also be lethal but more common, 670k elderly could die in US if 100m Americans are infected. the reduction of gdp from that many ppl dying is not nearly as much as already lost and expected to lose from shutdowns. the us pop historically grows at 1%/year, so the lost GDP is replaced in half a year. Such economic loss is also offset also to some degree by the fact that the elderly are past peak productive and reproductive years and that their wealth will go to their… Read more »

FashGordon
FashGordon
Reply to  S. Bishop
7 months ago

It’s not going to be 10 million. You can’t just look at the numbers and extrapolate. Consider how few have been tested, and the types of cases who would merit a test given the short supply of them. It’s going to be mostly the sickest who have it bad enough to go to the hospital and actually get tested. Plenty of people have corona but mild symptoms and never get tested. There have only been about 70k administered. The actual mortality rate will be lower. How much lower is impossible to say but certainly lower.

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Reply to  greyenlightenment
7 months ago

Well apparently it was needed cuz its done.

Yves Vannes
Yves Vannes
Member
Reply to  ChetRollins
7 months ago

In the past week cases in the US have jumped from 2000 to 20,000.

This number reflects a big jump in the number of people being tested but backing off now after having committed to shutting things down may be premature. He’s boxed himself in.

Dave
Dave
Reply to  Yves Vannes
7 months ago

20,000 positives does not mean 20,000 hospitalizations, let alone deaths.
The media loves to continue to scare the shit out of everyone with the ever growing list of positive cases.
The strong majority of those positives are asymptomatic, and most of the symptomatic will not require hospitalization.
The number of deaths due exclusively to coronavirus is small.

greyenlightenment
Reply to  Lawdog
7 months ago

getting the national guard involved is bad optics on trump’s part and making people more scared and lending justification for local governments to impose restrictions, not just in those states but everywhere else . This will not hurt his national support much, but it will probably hurt trump supporters in those states. Trump will not pay if things keep going to shit and wlll likely still win. we will.

Al from da Nort
Al from da Nort
Reply to  greyenlightenment
7 months ago

Gray; Guard is useful for several things that ordinary state officials are not. Among them: 1. Logistics planning and execution on the fly. Moving stuff around in a hurry with their own trucks. 2. Rapid construction of temporary facilities, ie tent hospitals. 3. Expertise in decontamination via NBC (Nuc, Bio, Chem) Warfare training that all of them get.* During the Ebola outbreak it was obvious that (some) CDC workers were improperly trained (bare skin while dealing with a contact infective agent). Of course, there’s also the repression of disorders thing too. But that’s not what’s needed right now. Because they… Read more »

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Reply to  Al from da Nort
7 months ago

Excellent response.

The military if course state or Federal still responds to orders, and hence is resorted to more and more.

This historically means rule by soldiers and/or an aristocratic class.
There are worse things.

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Reply to  greyenlightenment
7 months ago

Trump hasn’t gotten the National Guard involved, the governors have.
The National Guard works for State governors.

Maybe you have better info, but I am unaware of any Federalizations of the Guard for COVID. The State people called up so far are medical personnel.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
7 months ago

“Public policy is always about trade-offs. This is true in the easy times and it is true in the terrible times. There are no cost-free solutions to problems. Every problem presents a set of trade-offs. Decision makers know this and thus avoid million-dollar solutions to hundred-dollar problems. At least the good ones do.” “the good ones” What we are seeing is the implementation of policies without much thought at all about trade-offs or consequences, and that’s the best case interpretation. Mostly we are seeing decisions based on turf protection and power grabs, which comes naturally to bureaucrats. We’ll be told… Read more »

NJ Person
NJ Person
7 months ago

Latest number dead from coronavirus in Italy (the so-called worst case scenario country): 5,476. Total population of Italy: 60.32 million. Mortality rate is .000009%. It does not look to be anything near the black death. Please let me know, anyone, if I am missing something.

H I
H I
Reply to  NJ Person
7 months ago

Yes, exponential growth.

NJ Person
NJ Person
Reply to  H I
7 months ago

Okay. Valid point. But that will require a lot of exponential growth and thus be grounds for reasonable skepticism subject to change as new facts come.

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  NJ Person
7 months ago

Italy is also on the steep part of the curve, right? The exponential growth such as it’ll be should be happening right now. Correct me if I’m wrong about that, I’ll admit I’m not following Italy up to the moment.

Lawdog
Lawdog
Member
Reply to  H I
7 months ago

Yeah, that’s true.

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  H I
7 months ago

Expectational growth.

UFO
UFO
Reply to  NJ Person
7 months ago

What about the side effects? Its rumored to cause organ damage, and infertility after it passes. So say we left it unchecked, we may end up with a shit ton of alive, but infertile young people. There’s also the very real possibility that this is a bioweapon that slipped out of a lab, and we just don’t know how it will work long term. I respect Z’s take that this is a nothingburger and agree that the medical field is full of hysterical wimmin. But some kind of response is necessary to slow the spread of this virus. We don’t… Read more »

Lawdog
Lawdog
Member
Reply to  UFO
7 months ago

I lean toward your position. Best measures do have to be taken, even if it winds up being nothing.

We have gone too far, though.

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Reply to  UFO
7 months ago

It’s not the flu, but a bad cold. Colds often progress to pneumonia in the bedridden and kill them. Killed both of my elderly parents.

https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/cold-guide/common_cold_causes

Z has pointed this out.

Mark Stoval
Mark Stoval
Reply to  Ris_Eruwaedhiel
7 months ago

Yes, when you are in your 80’s for example something will kill you. Often it starts with a cold or the seasonal flu. The flu and flu-like illnesses strike, hospitalize, and kill far more people each year than this wimpy-virus has. And we know that vitamins and minerals help us with our immune system but doctors never suggest that. We also know that the seasonal flu vaccination causes the immune system to be less effective against other germs; that is other than what was vaccinated against. So many researchers have suggested that vaccines for the elderly are counter productive when… Read more »

greyenlightenment
Reply to  Mark Stoval
7 months ago

it’s a cascade. a fall leads to pneumonia and death a few weeks later.

joe_mama
joe_mama
Reply to  Ris_Eruwaedhiel
7 months ago

Well, I think there is something unique about the virus vs standard flu that’s not fully understood. I know a family that has it. One of the members is unfortunately in very bad shape. The person is also a little bit older, overweight and diabetic. The rest of the family members that have it are totally fine. This thing seems to go after diabetics hard, causing organ shutdown. Putting undue pressure on an already weakened system. That all being said, agree with Z that we can’t keep things shutdown indefinitely. At some point a “least worst option” decision has to… Read more »

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Ris_Eruwaedhiel
7 months ago

Seems in modern times we’ve forgotten the old adage: “Pneumonia, the old person’s friend”. That’s what killed the majority if I recall in hospitals years ago. Took my grandfather as well.

Lawdog
Lawdog
Member
Reply to  UFO
7 months ago

And regarding infertility, my fiance is pregnant. It’s got me thinking about that literary masterpiece: Children of Men.The book of course.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  UFO
7 months ago

How about taking this quarantine to it’s desired conclusion. Perhaps that will give us a better view by which to analyze the current process of bending the curve. Let’s say, we are successful, even more successful than bending the curve. The virus stops spreading and seemingly disappears within 90 days of the present quarantine. Where does it (virus) go? Well, we know it is not destroyed, indeed it seems to be in most other countries today. Many of those poor and completely unable to fight the disease as we do. Take for example other diseases such as TB, Measles, etc.… Read more »

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Compsci
7 months ago

BTW, as addendum, I just had such discussion with wife a bit ago, she was of the thought, “We don’t know enough, not enough facts, not enough testing, we must do everything we can think of.” My rebuttal (always difficult as she takes such very personal) is that we have logical minds that can sense inconsistencies, sort facts, and predict roughly future outcomes in broad and general sense. Assume the present argument on bending the curve and expand argument to a future in which this outcome has occurred. Now what is accomplished (long term)? If the answer is “nothing of… Read more »

FashGordon
FashGordon
Reply to  NJ Person
7 months ago

It’s only been two weeks since this thing started to take off outside of china though. I’m withholding judgement until more time passes. Two weeks is not very long.

Lawdog
Lawdog
Member
Reply to  FashGordon
7 months ago

Yeah, I think it’s going to go on even longer.

Thorsted
Thorsted
Reply to  NJ Person
7 months ago

The virus in Italy is centred around some few regions and also some cities in those regions. Bergamo in Lombardy is very affected.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Italy

ConservativeFred
ConservativeFred
Reply to  NJ Person
7 months ago

Is it a safe assumption that the data coming out of Italy is accurate?

Bill_Mullins
Member
Reply to  ConservativeFred
7 months ago

Assume for argument’s sake that it is not – that the numbers coming out of Italy are DELIBERATELY skewed. If that is the case then the numbers are either being UNDER reported or OVER reported. If the numbers are misreported, then WHICH numbers are being misreported and WHY? If both numbers – i.e. both total cases and total deaths – are misreported, then there is still something exceedingly odd going on in Italy because the death rate is a tad over 9.5%. If they’re under reporting either numbers then things are still exceedingly odd. And who benefits from such misreporting?… Read more »

ReturnOfBestGuest
ReturnOfBestGuest
Reply to  NJ Person
7 months ago

The statistics we should be looking at are 2020 deaths vs. 2019 deaths for the population. Are they higher? Are they significantly higher?

Lineman
Lineman
Reply to  NJ Person
7 months ago

Your numbers are wrong because your counting the whole population who don’t all have it…You have to take deaths divided by those who have recovered from it but even that is a guessing game because we don’t have enough test kits to see who even has it…

roo_ster
Member
7 months ago

Many online show no understanding of the concepts of trade offs or second order effects, let alone what they might be for our current situation. Commo with them is a waste of time, but they tend to disseminaye their ignorance far and wide.

The Right Doctor
The Right Doctor
7 months ago

Let me try to tell you something I’ve noticed about the reaction to this threat. Last week when I realized people were actually starting to freak out about doomsday, I had been away from my wife for four days. We talk all the time, but I had never asked her about her fears. She said, Scared of what? Either it’s coming or it’s not. I’m not personally worried. It was another reminder to congratulate myself on having married the right woman, because that’s exactly the way I felt. Neither of us is worried in an existential sense. By contrast, some… Read more »

KGB
KGB
Reply to  The Right Doctor
7 months ago

Indeed, you chose very well. Would that all women displayed such equanimity.

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Reply to  KGB
7 months ago

I’m at work (office) in a non-essential business. The hell with what Gov. Murphy of NJ says.

Chad Hayden
Chad Hayden
Reply to  Ris_Eruwaedhiel
7 months ago

It’s that red hair talkin Ris

NJ Person
NJ Person
Reply to  The Right Doctor
7 months ago

Yesterday I talked with an epidemiologist with significant medical training. This person supervises projects in coordination with the CDC and told me that the best policy would be to let the virus run its course with the population getting immunity the natural way.

Federalist
Federalist
Reply to  NJ Person
7 months ago

NJ,
Zman said in his comment, doing something stupid is always seen as better than doing nothing. Letting it run its course might be smart but it’s doing nothing. We had to do something stupid and have been wildly successful.

Major Hoople
Major Hoople
Member
Reply to  NJ Person
7 months ago

Problem is no politician in a democracy can do that. Boris Johnson considered it, probably on advice of Dominic Cummings, then quickly abandoned it when someone pointed out the political fallout of people dying in hospital hallways.

Alzaebo
Reply to  NJ Person
7 months ago

They’re all saying that or paid to say it. Even CA’s state doctor, on the radio, said, “oh, the young are getting it, and that’s a GOOD thing!” This one doesn’t produce antibodies, it hides like AIDS. There are no AIDS antibodies. DOESN’T PRODUCE ANTIBODIES. NO IMMUNITY. FUTURE RE-INFECTION. POTENTIAL STERILITY OR DISABILITY. Sorry for shouting. Rooster says “disseminate their ignorance far and wide.” Fash says, “Two weeks is not very long.” The “herd immunity” nitwits are a perfect illustration of today’s Z-post. I hope as an ignoramus that “no immunity” is 100, no, 200% wrong. If not, ‘society adapting… Read more »

Fluella De Vil
Fluella De Vil
Reply to  Alzaebo
7 months ago

Of course, this was as if March 6. Has the story changed, Al? “So far, most of these cases of reinfection have been in China, where the outbreak started, and research documenting these cases — and confirming that they are, in fact, instances of reinfection — remains lacking, experts say. ‘I do not know of any cases at present where I would be definitively convinced that a person had fully recovered from the disease and had been reinfected as opposed to relapsed,’ William Hanage, assistant professor of epidemiology at the T.H. Chan School of Public Health at Harvard University, told… Read more »

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Reply to  NJ Person
7 months ago

Herd immunity?

Bill_Mullins
Member
Reply to  Ris_Eruwaedhiel
7 months ago

Herd immunity (also called herd effect, community immunity, population immunity, or social immunity) is a form of indirect protection from infectious disease that occurs when a large percentage of a population has become immune to an infection, whether through previous infections or vaccination, thereby providing a measure of protection for individuals who are not immune.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

Jim-bo-bo
Jim-bo-bo
Reply to  The Right Doctor
7 months ago

My opinion is somewhat like yours expressed 27 minutes later without reading yours….refuse to be afraid….in a way, death stalks us continuously and I will continue to enjoy my day,,,

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  The Right Doctor
7 months ago

Right now you can divide people into two groups, those who are afraid, and those who are not afraid. You can see the fear (or not) in their eyes when you meet them.

joe_mama
joe_mama
Reply to  Dutch
7 months ago

Well personally, I’m afraid of the aftereffects of politicians trying to ‘fix the problem’. I’d rather take my chances with the virus than a cratered economy.

Bill_Mullins
Member
Reply to  joe_mama
7 months ago

Unfortunately, we’re probably past the point of being able to avoid a cratered economy and will likely see a depression as bad as or even worse than the one which began 90 odd years ago. Unfortunately, the measures which are likely to be used to “bring us out of it” will almost certainly be modeled on that used by the Democrats back then and we damned well KNOW how well THAT worked.

Alzaebo
Reply to  Dutch
7 months ago

It’s not the dying, it’s the fear of leaving things unfinished.

My favorite last words, from a book of quotes from the deathbed–
A businessman: “Still so much left to be done”

Igor Stravinsky
Igor Stravinsky
Reply to  The Right Doctor
7 months ago

I have no fear of miniature albino giraffes because I have the garden gnomes.

Stranger in a strange land
Stranger in a strange land
Reply to  Igor Stravinsky
7 months ago

Hey Igor – love your music.

Member
Reply to  The Right Doctor
7 months ago

how much are you afraid of miniature albino giraffes?

They’re a tripping hazard.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  The Right Doctor
7 months ago

I don’t fear albino giraffes, I do fear “bread lines”. Now that’s not me, nor will it ever be. I’m that Boomer that got in on the action early and made out like a bandit. But I didn’t check out of society. I have children, my friends have children. Enough said.

BadThinker
BadThinker
7 months ago

I often wonder if the problem with the modern world is that it demands far too many decision makers than actually exist, so we end up with unserious people in charge, simply because there aren’t enough serious people to go around.

Drake
Drake
Reply to  BadThinker
7 months ago

Back before government got huge, the local Mayor, Count, whatever made most of the calls. If he was an idiot, too bad for his county – but not a problem for all the other counties. Now we have Governors in NY, NJ, OH, and CT trying to out-idiot each other.

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Reply to  Drake
7 months ago

Subsidiarity or federalism. Local people know what’s best for local people. Of course, at one time local people paid their own bills and didn’t stick their hands out to the State and Federal governments. With subsidy comes control. On top of that, our Cloud People rulers regard the great mass of ordinary Americans as livestock who need to looked after.

Alzaebo
Reply to  Ris_Eruwaedhiel
7 months ago

If only the scumbags had let My President to what he wanted to in January.

But they knew, and wanted it to get worse, so they could grab the money sure to come.

They f**ked up and now they’ll over-reach and blame My Prez to cover their stupid, greedy, criminal azzes.

Green New Deal and Peeing Prostitutes-Gate went nowhere, so now the pigs are counting on Corona-chan going viral.

BadThinker
BadThinker
Reply to  Drake
7 months ago

Don’t forget PA! Wolfe just ‘locked down’ some counties over 644 cases in a population of 12,000,000.

MossHammer
Member
Reply to  BadThinker
7 months ago

BT. Interesting “..so we end up with unserious people in charge”
It seems the excess / luxury of the modern world softens the negative consequences of these unserious meat bags making decisions. Too bad.

Lawdog
Lawdog
Member
Reply to  BadThinker
7 months ago

Interesting, although isn’t big tech’s thing consolidation? I’d expect to see fewer decision makers as data becomes easier to collect, review and manipulate. Fewer *real* decision makers, anyway

BadThinker
BadThinker
Reply to  Lawdog
7 months ago

One thing the machines are good at is spotting patterns based on input data. Problem is that the world is *far* more complex than the data we collect on it. Oversimplification of the world (via economists and sociologists) is one of the reasons we’re in this mess. In marketing the problem is called ‘sales attribution’ – what caused a customer to buy our product? The marketer will tell you it was because of the coupon we sent to them. The realist will tell you “millions of reasons”. There’s a happy medium there somewhere, but it means judgement and moving from… Read more »

Alzaebo
Reply to  Lawdog
7 months ago

That’s why I agree with Karl Horst’s report of Chinese Disruption strategy. They are planning on consolidating and integrating the physical supply chain while our politicos use this opportunity to consolidate and integrate the feminine surveillance state, their main focus for many years. The good and interesting news is purely American- for instance, a microdistillery in Bozeman is producing a local version of Purell and giving it away to first responders (and anyone who shows up.) Will our big boys ramp up essentials? I’m hoping capitalism responds as we used to before creaky, clunky, cheating China gets there first. What… Read more »

Yves Vannes
Yves Vannes
Member
Reply to  BadThinker
7 months ago

Maybe the problem isn’t a lack of serious people but a lack of serious people in serious position. Clown World became a clownish world by handing out responsibilities to malicious outsiders and to jumped up trash. The handful of capable people in public life, if there are even a handful, have to play along to get along…or they are spineless obsequious mercenaries.

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  Yves Vannes
7 months ago

Yves, yes. We have a deficit of true decision makers – and an oversupply of middling self-serving administrators whose success is a function of their skill in taking advantage of the decay within the organizations and systems to leverage others into accepting all the risk. Further. HR, affirmative action, PC, lawfare, rent-seeking, etc. mean that the system does not cultivate advisors into decision makers or inoculate against Larping leaders and grifters. Bad actors are more often elevated and/or protected, than ejected. We have mercenaries and their handlers; officers hiding behind cloud policy and procedures insulating them from any direct responsibility;… Read more »

Yves Vannes
Yves Vannes
Member
Reply to  Screwtape
7 months ago

My department did its own hiring for the first half of my career. For the past decade everything, even whom we can interview, now gets filtered through the commissars in HR.

Bill_Mullins
Member
Reply to  BadThinker
7 months ago

the problem with the modern world is that it demands far too many decision makers than actually exist, so we end up with unserious incompetent people in charge, simply because there aren’t enough serious competent people to go around.

Fixed it per the ZMan from last week.

H I
H I
7 months ago

Spot on about tradeoffs. Uncertainty is making it hard to judge tradeoffs now. A couple of ways you can address uncertainty (among others): choose moves that have the smaller downside if you’re wrong, and adjust reasonably often based on new information. Closing schools and the China travel ban are examples of the first way. Locking down non-essential businesses may also be one, though depending on how long it lasts it may prove not to be. The bottom line is that we need widespread testing so those tradeoffs can be evaluated.

BadThinker
BadThinker
Reply to  H I
7 months ago

The problem with testing is that it is not actually as good as you think it is.

For the math, have a read:
https://wmbriggs.com/post/29761/

“With a base rate of 1 out of 100, there is still only a 50/50 chance you got the bug! Only 50/50. Flip a burger. Of course, if you’re in Wuhan, or parts of Italy, B = 1% maybe isn’t so realistic. What’s your B? I have no idea. There is no unique B!”

H I
H I
Reply to  BadThinker
7 months ago

Thanks for the link, BadThinker. I’m more familiar with that math than you’d know. We still need testing, and specifically cheap and fast testing of people who haven’t entered the medical system yet (that probably means a non-PCR test, which will take some time).

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  H I
7 months ago

More testing never hurts. Eventually all stat’s will be based of some sort of estimate of cases, but that estimate will only be made better with more testing. The problem is one of philosophy, act without appropriate information, or wait until such information is available—or rather act within the boundaries of fact based evidence and reason—not emotion, panic, fear, duplicity. We have decided to crash the economy without appropriate information. Not just on contagion and death rates, but on the cost of such actions as “social distancing”. I have yet to hear anyone grapple with the unseen—and yet unrealized cost—of… Read more »

Bill_Mullins
Member
Reply to  Compsci
7 months ago

Eventually all stat’s will be based of some sort of estimate of cases, but that estimate will only be made better with more testing.

That assumes that the tests are actually worth a tinker’s dam. If the tests have a high incidence of wither false positives or false negatives then any decisions made on the basis of such test will be nothing more than WAGs (Wild Ass Guess). How much testing has been done of the tests themselves?

ReturnOfBestGuest
ReturnOfBestGuest
Reply to  H I
7 months ago

Indeed. Fast and reliable testing could have prevented most of this. Test and isolate the infected for a couple of weeks. We got the opposite.

Member
Reply to  BadThinker
7 months ago

This is something I’ve been wondering a lot about too. How many of these supposed cases of Coronavirus – even in Italy – are actually false positives? We have some test that’s been cooked up over a couple of weeks in a lab so who knows how accurate it is. And as Briggs points out (And this is literally a textbook example of Bayes law that’s been taught in statistics classes for years. I’ve always used it myself when I’ve taught stats classes.) even if a test is highly accurate, there’s still a very good chance you don’t have the… Read more »

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Reply to  RDittmar
7 months ago

I thought the same thing because I read that the majority of people who test positive the first time they are tested don’t actually have the sickness. They need to be retested. Also, the majority of people with it are asymptomatic.

Mark Stoval
Mark Stoval
Reply to  RDittmar
7 months ago

There was a chart that showed something like 50% of those that died had 3 other serious diseases. 25% or so had 2, and the rest had one serious disease.

So what really killed them? People with suppressed immune systems die of pneumonia every year often along with the flu. Why would anyone think Coronavirus (an old and well know virus) is somehow solely responsible for every death?

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Reply to  Mark Stoval
7 months ago

Many people with the sniffles will fear that they have the ailment and run to the emergency room.

About a month ago, before the hysteria, there was a warm day and evening, so I left the my bedroom window a bit and woke up with a mild cold. Maybe it was the corona virus!

Member
Reply to  Ris_Eruwaedhiel
7 months ago

You jest, but Julie Kelly had an article the other day speculating about exactly this: https://www.amgreatness.com/2020/03/19/dangerous-curves/ Apparently, there was an big spike in people showing up at the doctor early in the year with “flu-like” symptoms who tested negative for the flu. Those cases actually peaked back in January and started leveling off in February before the Coronavirus hysteria kicked into high gear. For all we know those were a bunch of undiagnosed Coronavirus cases and the whole epidemic had started to level off over a month ago. There’ve been other years for which the number of these mystery illnesses… Read more »

Stina
Stina
Reply to  RDittmar
7 months ago

We had this in our community in December. A friend had it really bad and was hacking up blood. A couple of mutual friends had their entire family on bed rest. It miraculously missed me and hit my husband. He was dealing with it through January. The only kid that had anything was the 4 year old and whatever it was led to an ear infection.

We’ve been speculating on if we didn’t have this thing already.

Member
Reply to  Stina
7 months ago

Ear infections in kids are often caused by cold viruses and about a third of common colds are due to Coronaviruses in particular.

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Reply to  RDittmar
7 months ago

It occurred to me that if every person with a cold underwent this coronavirus test a year ago, how many would test positive for coronavirus?

“You have coronavirus.” “Oh, okay.” It would have been no big deal.

According to the WebMD article I referenced on another post, coronavirus causes about 20% of colds and does its dirty work in the winter and early spring. The other types of colds are rhinovirus and RSV and parainfluenza.

Member
Reply to  Mark Stoval
7 months ago

Exactly the point Aaron Ginn (he of the censored Medium article) was making the other day about deaths in Italy:

https://twitter.com/aginnt/status/1241542169623699456

Alzaebo
Reply to  BadThinker
7 months ago

The other problem is the media lumping “potential cases” into the case load numbers, ramping up the casualty counts.

Drake
Drake
Reply to  H I
7 months ago

Most of the politicians making decisions (other than Trump) have little real-work experience in the economy and generally have a bias in favor of state power. In their eyes, being a dictator has no downside.

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  H I
7 months ago

Decision makers are being judged on the efficacy of the decision, rather than on the wisdom of the decision making process when one has incomplete information. Throwing rocks at someone when the result is suboptimal is not hard to do, it is simply piling on, after the fact. What you want are people making wise choices, given big gaps in information about the matter at hand. Policy choices that will not strand everyone in a really bad place if the choice does not work out, and choices that make sense in a complex, incomplete situation. H I is exactly right.

Trapped on Clown World
Trapped on Clown World
7 months ago

It’s likely that our society has become hostile to decision makers. People who calmly make hard choices are despised, we don’t want our leaders to say that some people will die, we want them to say that we will all be safe. It’s the same reason we become apocalyptic when a business owner says a $15 minimum wage isn’t reasonable for a guy washing cars. Instead we have people who would have originally been “the rest of us” in positions of power, barking orders to the executors, being advised by lunatics who have been trained mainly in the importance of… Read more »

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  Trapped on Clown World
7 months ago

Good point Trapped. Its not just open hostility, as that is largely reserved for crimethinkers, badwhites, and the deplorables. As I mentioned above, I think a system either solves for decision makers or it solves for charismatic administrators (to put it nicely) based on the “books” it keeps. The zero-sum of hierarchy selection means that at some point one set of traits becomes favored and thus dominant. Aside. Entryism is an issue here as once a clown gains authority in an org, they will select for sub-clowns and the virus spreads. This is why the leaders most important function/skill IMO… Read more »

Lineman
Lineman
Reply to  Screwtape
7 months ago

That’s where AA led us too and having HR run the company…Inmates running the asylum…

Alzaebo
Reply to  Lineman
7 months ago

“There are two sets of books: truth and power.”

That’s an instant classic, one for the ages.

Another, a maxim, cultural anthropology in one sentence:
“The zero-sum of hierarchy selection means that at some point one set of traits becomes favored and thus dominant.”

Drake
Drake
7 months ago

Good breakdown of people. I’ve spent most of my life in the advisory and execution roles – project, program, and strategy management. My one objection in the essay – if you are an advisor and do not consider trade-offs and present them to decision makers, you are truly terrible at your job. (And yes, there are many advisors terrible at their jobs who operate on their own agendas)

BTP
Member
7 months ago

https://www.nbcchicago.com/top-videos-home/chicago-doctors-blunt-speech-about-covid-19-hits-home-across-the-country/2241880/?fbclid=IwAR2xAOXKM-kZPRyIWyXeDQ7S6FXluqd6u5-EcPLlgGfBZ5RZre_vURAJqhQ The above address is to the Chicago presser with this chick giving what amounts to an impassioned high school valedictory. That the rulers trot her and her data-free comments out now – and include a sign language guy in oddly tight pants for extra fun – is one of the more distressing things I’ve seen associated with this outbreak. It’s an unserious signal about something that is supposed to be serious. It’s the sort of mistake you can make if you have lots of credibility, but in an environment where the public wonders about the level of basic competence… Read more »

ChetRollins
ChetRollins
Reply to  BTP
7 months ago

Good Lord. Her body language and tone was more in line with an hysterical teenage girl who just broke up with her boyfriend than an adult woman professional.

jrod
jrod
Reply to  BTP
7 months ago

She has bizarrely inappropriate affect.

Stranger in a strange land
Stranger in a strange land
Reply to  BTP
7 months ago

I admit I couldn’t stomach watching the entire performance – I was fearful that at some point she say: “like, OMG, this is totally like…you know…bad”.
It was more likely I’d be more ill listening to her than whatever CV19 has to offer.

ConservativeFred
ConservativeFred
Reply to  Stranger in a strange land
7 months ago

I stopped watching after a minute . . . bad acting and hyperbole.

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  BTP
7 months ago

I didn’t see the video at BTP’s link so I looked it up on YouTube. These people do not inspire confidence, although I would hire the sign language guy for a child’s birthday, provided he was properly supervised and wore less tight pants.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-iVg3b1apo

Member
Reply to  BTP
7 months ago

I’ve noticed a trend for a long time for our masters in corporations and governments to set up women as flaks whenever there is any kind of interaction with the public. The thinking is probably that they are more controllable and less likely to think for themselves than a man would be. There’s also the fact that, when imposing the organization’s more oppressive and offensive policies, it’s less likely that someone will just walk up and punch them in the nose. Standing up a xirl as the spokesblob also allows the real, and still mostly male, decision makers to continue… Read more »

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  pozymandias
7 months ago

Pozy, so true. Along those lines, when a company appoints a woman and/or POC as the CEO, there is probably something in the compay, that they did or ignored, that made their situation a bad one. c.f. Mary Bara, GM, and the ignition switch fault. Two weeks after they gave her the gig, the bad thing blew up.

BadThinker
BadThinker
Reply to  Dutch
7 months ago

Hewlett Packard comes to mind.

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Reply to  pozymandias
7 months ago

We are aware that Blacks are often put in charge of company, but they are just fronts for White decision-makers. Women, too.

It was pointed out that the first labor unions were in occupations that were strenuous and dangerous, such as working in mines and steel mills. Getting women to work in these jobs served the interest of the employers because the they were easier to push around. “You ladies don’t really want a pay increase, now do you?”

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  BTP
7 months ago

What we are seeing is what we have seen before, a great awakening and another category of poz’d profession. Medical doctors, once revered are now being seen as emotional actors, rather than rationale leaders. They’ve been elevated from their traditional position of healer of individuals to one they are entirely unsuited for, political leader of a polis. Our “hero’s” are rapidly shrinking. Just in my lifetime, news reporters were highly respected, e.g., Walter Cronkite. So were University Professors and such institutions of higher ed. Finally, the military. All now gone. And I suspect medical professions will not be the last… Read more »

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Compsci
7 months ago

With all due respect to Right Doctor and few others here, I never ‘revered’ medical professionals. They are not nearly as smart as they think they are and hate being proven wrong (which I’ve done to a number of them more than once). I think a healthy skepticism towards anyone in this life claiming to be an ‘expert’ is a good initial strategy. Any human heroes I may admire never, ever claimed to be such in life (all are dead White males).

Dinothedoxie
Dinothedoxie
Reply to  BTP
7 months ago

I find myself focusing on the facial expressions of the sign language / break dancers – at these speeches. They’re fucking hilarious. Auto-parody of globohomo at its best.

Libertymike
Member
7 months ago

It would appear obvious that Dr. Anthony “chicken little” Fauci is an adviser type who needs a strong dose of the “perfect”* is the enemy of the good enough.

*Perfect to a public health commissar is that there be no consideration of economic consequences to their prescriptions.

NJ Person
NJ Person
Reply to  Libertymike
7 months ago

Excellent point. It seems that Dr. Fauci has been appointed dictator of the U.S. The analogy would be giving a general dictatorial powers in the time of war. Where is the push back from the Treasury or Commerce?

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Reply to  NJ Person
7 months ago

String him up like Mussolini.

Member
Reply to  Libertymike
7 months ago

MSM does admiring “puff pieces” on Fauci. That’s a big strike against.

Brian
Brian
Reply to  Libertymike
7 months ago

See the emails that Conservative Treehouse found of Fauci professing his love for Hitlary during the previous regime? It makes me wonder just how engineered this collapse is.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Libertymike
7 months ago

That man’s attitude and demeanor make me want to punch him – epitome of backpfeifengesicht.

Alzaebo
Reply to  3g4me
7 months ago

For newer readers:
backfeifengesicht- translation:
“A face that begs for the backfist”

Jim-bo-bo
Jim-bo-bo
7 months ago

If the 0-30 year olds recover from covid-19 handily, and the 65-80+ year olds have high death rate, then I think it appalling that we’re sacrificing the well-being, education, and emotional security of these young people that have not had their shot at life yet to save the older group that have had their shot, I would reason it time to thin the herd of the older ones (and, I might add, patheticly selfish and self centered)….get this country back to work for the youth ..it’s the least we can do….P.S. I’m 70

Lawdog
Lawdog
Member
Reply to  Jim-bo-bo
7 months ago

Yes, it is appalling. We the future are sitting at home, severed from our economy and sense of civic productivity.

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  Lawdog
7 months ago

Valuing civic productivity implies there is a society meriting it. Otherwise working hard just means the wealth created by your work is tapped off to be used to aid people who hate you whether that is a foreign state or a foreign ideology. And yeah sure all the tax revenue we take in just barely pays for social security , Medicare and the military not the point. The Federal government at least isn’t the biggest source of our woes and in a perfectly Ron Paul kind of State , i.e minimal there would possibly be even more money for the… Read more »

ChetRollins
ChetRollins
Reply to  Jim-bo-bo
7 months ago

Found it amusing reading younger people who are up at arms because the elderly are not taking this seriously.

The impression I get around the elderly over 70 is that a large percentage are at peace with the thought of dying, and don’t see a reason to upend their lives or destroy the lives of their children for a few more years of living.

Drake
Drake
Reply to  ChetRollins
7 months ago

My SIL is furious with her parents for not living in a bunker. Her parents, particularly her father have the “oh, well” approach and are ignoring her advise. Her Dad already has some issues and has flatly refused doctor’s orders to eat nothing but rabbit-food for his remaining years.

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Reply to  Drake
7 months ago

We Boomers have lived to see endless predictions of the imminent end of the world.

“It’s the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.” Baby Boomer pop cultural reference.

Jim-bo-bo
Jim-bo-bo
Reply to  ChetRollins
7 months ago

Then it’s high time we speak up ….didn’t the Native American elder refuse assistance when they felt too weak to help the tribe?
They simply stayed behind to make the tribe stronger….

1UnknownSubject
1UnknownSubject
Reply to  ChetRollins
7 months ago

Talked to my father about this – he is 74. He is not in fear, he knows death is coming in the future and he has accepted his mortality.

greyenlightenment
Reply to  Jim-bo-bo
7 months ago

we don’t need terrorists to destroy America. we got mayors and politicians and the media for that

NJ Person
NJ Person
Reply to  Jim-bo-bo
7 months ago

I am 70 and agree. I will take my 5% (or whatever it is) chance if that means we all can return to normal.

Lawdog
Lawdog
Member
Reply to  NJ Person
7 months ago

When I am 70, I hope I’m like you.

george 1
george 1
Reply to  Jim-bo-bo
7 months ago

I am older myself Jim-bo-bo. On CTH I told them that I did not want the economy wrecked for younger people in order that people my age might have a slightly better chance of survival. I think my generation needs to cowboy up.

I was promptly accused of being irresponsible and of wanting death camps.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  george 1
7 months ago

george 1 – ah yes, the death camps/death panels gambit. So original, you know. Daily Mail online was promoting a story about a 95 year old Italian woman who survived Corona (after being hospitalized since 5 March). I’m sorry to whomever I offend, but that’s an utterly irresponsible waste of resources and time and talent in a supposed ‘medical crisis.’ All those Christians who profess they can’t wait to meet Jesus are running around petrified (and I’m repeating this from a friend who is, herself, an extremely devout Christian) and sowing disorder and confusion. Typical AWFLs.

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Reply to  3g4me
7 months ago

A friend’s mother in her 70s at the time (Greatest Generation) was diagnosed with cancer, but she refused to fight it because, she said, she would be with her husband and the Lord.

There’s an attitude among conservative Christians that they are morally obligated to cling to life no matter what. Right to Life now includes attempting to outlaw death.

Fluella De Vil
Fluella De Vil
Reply to  Ris_Eruwaedhiel
7 months ago

No, Right to Life doesn’t attempt to outlaw death. You have misunderstood, at least on the Catholic side.
“Man is not the master of life, but should use all fitting means to prolong life. If the means to prolong life are not fitting or if they impose an excessive burden, they need not be utilized.”
“God does not desire us to be interested in a long life; he wishes us to be interested in a good life.”
“It is one thing to kill oneself; it is a different thing to not prolong life.”
https://opcentral.org/resources/2014/09/05/the-catholic-tradition-on-forgoing-life-support/
See also:
http://cmq.org.uk/CMQ/2011/2-must-life-be-prolonged.html

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Ris_Eruwaedhiel
7 months ago

Ris – that’s precisely what I said last week and got a lot of pushback. Just as GWB started endless wars against intangible ‘terror,’ Trump has been talked into a war on ‘disease’ and ultimately death. This idea that every single death is a tragedy, no matter what age or circumstances, is obscene. Again, my friend is as sincere a Christian as you’ll find and yet very much a dissident too, and she was specifically disgusted with all her Christian friends and customers panicking about wuflu. She has elderly parents with all the other ailments that would make them susceptible,… Read more »

Federalist
Federalist
7 months ago

Our government decision makers have decided to lead us into a panic. They are failing as decision makers but they won’t be replaced by good decision makers.

By Z’s definition, decision makers are comfortable taking responsibility for their actions and are aware of the fact that their decisions have consequences for others. Government officials imposing this lockdown won’t take responsibility for the consequences. So, our problem is that we don’t have people that fit the definition of decision makers making decisions.

joey junger
joey junger
7 months ago

This is definitely not the time to panic, but it is the time to note who is capable of acting in a panic-inducing situation and who isn’t. Each one of these waves of zoonotic viruses (whether sprung from Chinese wet markets or the rain forest) has basically been scaffolding on the previous one, becoming stronger. This thing will probably go away after killing a non-negligible but non-critical amount of the population, but it’s possible some virus that stands on the figurative shoulders of this one really brings the pain and separates the men from the boys (and reminds women they’re… Read more »

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
7 months ago

The problem is that the trade-offs are different for different groups. The personal trade-offs for the politicians are very different from the trade-offs for the economy. Same goes for the fed and the people that work there. What may not be great for Joe Blow worker or small business owner might be great for a governor.

In a democracy comprised of BOTH various ethnic/racial/religious/culture groups and an elite that don’t consider themselves connected to the people, you will have very different trade-offs for each decision.

Drake
Drake
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
7 months ago

Ruin the economy + get reelected = good trade-off.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  Drake
7 months ago

Don’t forget. The politician can then “save” the economy using other people’s money but get all of the credit.

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  Drake
7 months ago

Citizen, yes that is a great observation.

Just like how corporations larping toward diversity, inclusion, and other wokeness ends up eroding the misssion as rogue factions and functions vying for power and resources leverage the external power of globohomo to extort and manipulate from within.

Reminds me of the whole “not who we are!” The entire question of “we” is refracted into a thousand rays of conflicting values and agendas.

Meanwhile…

Friday. The economy: not who we are!

Monday. The economy: who we are!

Trump: “in 15 days WE will decide who we are”.

FashGordon
FashGordon
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
7 months ago

Case and point Cuomo.

Yves Vannes
Yves Vannes
Member
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
7 months ago

This genie is out if the bottle forever. From now on every flu season will be treated as a potential shoah if it allows a group or individual to play one-upsmanship.

G Lordon Giddy
G Lordon Giddy
7 months ago

Get the medical “experts” off the stage and toughen up. We ain’t China and we ain’t gonna run around with masks on letting our loved ones die alone in a nursing home.
While our government turns into a totalitarian Cuomo led shit show.
We are the west.
Start acting like it.
We cannot crash the world economy over this. That trade off is not worth it.
This is not Antietam and not Iwo Jima.
It’s the damn flu.
Have we become that pussified??
Get a grip.

FashGordon
FashGordon
Reply to  G Lordon Giddy
7 months ago

It’s far too late for that. The train has left the station. I think you forget how soft and fearful the modern man is. Hopefully the ensuing great depression will toughen us up.

Lawdog
Lawdog
Member
Reply to  FashGordon
7 months ago

I don’t think it’s too late. Put some heat on the softies and they harden like clay. Or melt like ice…

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  G Lordon Giddy
7 months ago

The hope is that this will be a short term enough situation that helicopter money can keep the system running since the other option is to utterly destroy the US health care system. That is the real risk and frankly it may well be a poor choice. Problem is you chose the other and we lose say 3% from Corona Chan, proportionate casualties to WW2 BTW but a hell of a lot more people over decades as the health care system falls apart. Life expectancy would tank for everybody and simply we can’t fix it after./ Assuming enough adults were… Read more »

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
7 months ago

The same applies to people who say things like “we need to implement strict measures to slow the spread.” If that were true, it would have happened as soon as the virus was detected. This doesn’t compute at all. It assumes a level of competence in government for which there is naught evidence. The observations about types of men is mildly amusing and generally true but not really a central point right now. What I see happening here is denial that an infectious micron just kicked in the door to the ‘Flamin’ Twenties’ and your, understanable, desire to not crash… Read more »

Severian
Reply to  thezman
7 months ago

Yes, this. 1000x this. This is the point I keep making to my ex-friends who have shown themselves to be shrieking ninnies. If it’s as bad as you say, then even you, the shrieking ninnies, aren’t shrieking for the government to do enough. Napalm five city blocks around any site of infection, then napalm five more to be sure. IF it’s as bad as you say. But if it’s not, you’ve just handed your liberties away for… what, exactly? Look, y’all, I’m a professional historian. There’s a word for what you call it when the central government starts closing businesses… Read more »

BFYTW
BFYTW
Reply to  thezman
7 months ago

You’re erroneously assuming that politicians, bureaucrats, and hospital executives are A) informed well enough to accurately weigh costs, risks and benefits; B) use logic to assess what, if anything, must be done, and C) that what must be done is – in fact – self-evident to the higher-ups and everyone down the chain of command. As you point out, in clown world, decision-makers don’t inhabit higher office…and most below careerist advisers are barely paying attention anyway. Since this thing hatched out of China, the option to remain at the prior “normal” for the economy evaporated, regardless of how much “panic”… Read more »

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
7 months ago

” intelligence people, health officials and others”

They forfeited all trust after 9/11, WMD and a failed coup attempt. If their response is the correct one, and let’s just say it is for the sake of argument, that makes the distrust they previously have sown all the worse.

Member
Reply to  Jack Dobson
7 months ago

Dobson: “intelligence people, health officials and others”…”They forfeited all trust after 9/11”. So, in your mind, a small but influential cabal of Neocons in 2001 represent what the whole of intel & health officialdom is and forever will be? Many of you see personal Distrust as a higher state of being and intelligence.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Frip
7 months ago

The neocons and Deep State, and, no, this isn’t about flashing intellectual prowess. It’s a simple recognition of reality. The federal government has forfeited all right to be be trusted. If people are economically devastated by what proves to be a gross overreaction, the United States government very well could be toppled and at a minimum quite a bit of power will be devolving to the individual states probably even now–unless draconian measures are implemented that use the military to police America, which I think is a distinct possibility. People are not going to live in a Hunger Games nation… Read more »

Member
Reply to  Frip
7 months ago

The people issuing the official statements of the Soviet state in 1985 were certainly not the same as the ones who had that job decades before under Khrushchev or Stalin. Nonetheless the average Russian regarded them as such. It had simply become obvious over the decades that there was something fundamentally rotten in the way power was acquired and used in the USSR and that it was an integral part of the system that didn’t change when the name of the General Secretary did. It’s hard for those of us who remember 9/11, the Iraq war buildup, Afghanistan, the various… Read more »

FashGordon
FashGordon
7 months ago

If one thing has become clear to me it’s that the people ruling us now are the products of nepotism. They are the sons and daughters, perhaps grandsons and granddaughters of our conquerors. People who would have attained their status through merit would not be so damn stupid. I actually think this is great though. It will be much easier to replace them when things completely fall apart, and it seems like this is might happen very soon. I’m excited for current collapse.

Drake
Drake
Reply to  FashGordon
7 months ago

The Governor of NJ was basically a glorified financial advisor. When you seem him on TV, you realize he is not a decision guy.

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Reply to  Drake
7 months ago

What a dork Gov. Murphy is. Z has talked about the billionaire plutocrats who pull the strings of their puppet politicians. People like Mike Bloomberg.

greyenlightenment
7 months ago

this seems similar to vox day’s hierarchy

BadThinker
BadThinker
Reply to  greyenlightenment
7 months ago

The SSH is generally applicable because it’s been around in some form or other for far longer than Vox Day has. Whyte’s “The Organization Man” and Morgan’s “Images of Organization” both talk about the kinds of people in human organizations / systems, and they roughly map to his SSH. Brave New World before that (which used Alpha, Beta, Delta, etc), and many, many others from time immemorial.

Hierarchy used to be common, assumed knowledge. You didn’t really need a ‘theory’ for it.

Severian
Reply to  thezman
7 months ago

Harrington!!! About time the old boy got some love. Thanks for that.

BadThinker
BadThinker
Reply to  Severian
7 months ago
Member
Reply to  BadThinker
7 months ago

SSH? I’m assuming this isn’t about logging into your webserver using secure shell.

Member
Reply to  greyenlightenment
7 months ago

Ah, I get now why I’d considered you a total doorknob. Vox Day eh? Too funny.

Jack Boniface
Jack Boniface
Member
7 months ago

Imagine the horror if Hillary were making the decisions.

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  Jack Boniface
7 months ago

“What difference, at this point, does it make?”

Sandmich
Sandmich
Reply to  Jack Boniface
7 months ago

Meh. I wouldn’t wish her rule on anyone, but she always bothered me less than Obama since she’s not ideological. For her it’s always about what’s best for Hillary; leftisim is a natural “ideology” for a criminal thief like herself, but she’d throw it all away in a heartbeat if she thought it was to her personal benefit.

Severian
7 months ago

For me, that’s the real tragedy — I’ve lost friends over this. They didn’t die from coronavirus. People I once thought were sober, reasonable, intelligent, responsible folks turned out to be shrieking ninnies. Crisis reveals character, and a lot of people I know failed. Badly.

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  Severian
7 months ago

Sev. Thats too bad. I had a lot of that in the first Trump election cycle.

If its any solace, I have taken to counting that as a blessing.

Learning that about your friends without being counter-party is much better than having to learn that in a foxhole with them.

Character, like the principles that construct it, doesn’t really exist until tested. And those tests that do not require an actual trade-off that stings don’t really count.

Character is like callused hands. When it comes time to really chop wood, the fear of blisters is nowhere to be found.

Severian
Reply to  Screwtape
7 months ago

Screwtape, yeah, I try to look on the bright side. Pre-kung flu, these were the kind of folks I’d send my kids to (if I had kids). Even better: Often, they’re the ones who cut *me* off first, because I’m such a heartless bastard. “Do you really want to risk your mother for this?” No, I don’t, but… my mother’s in her 80s. She’s a tough old bird who takes all reasonable precautions (as do I). I’m sure as hell not going to wreck the world for my (theoretical) kids, or everyone else’e actual kids, to reduce her chances of… Read more »

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  Severian
7 months ago

With you on all that Sev. For me it was about their refusal or inability to see the evil at work, exposing their naked self-interest, relative to supporting parties and candidates and laws and programs that hate me and my culture and way of life. Just so they could look and feel good in their upscale neighborhood bbq as they cherry pick from the very things their beliefs are destroying because they have the money to do so. My mom (74) nearly died two years ago from a flu-pnumonia-sepsis-3 days in ICU and nobody, even the doctors, made a fuss… Read more »

Severian
Reply to  Screwtape
7 months ago

There it is. One of my most hysterical ex-friends works in a college town deep in flyover country, in a teeny tiny burg that doubles its population when the students come back. It’s 99% White, 1% other. He gets paid regardless, and as for social isolation, see above – half the town is gone. Meanwhile, here I sit, on the edges of a major metro and its attendant Diversity. Give this lockdown another week, and I’ll be sitting up at night in front of my door with a loaded shotgun, watching the ‘hood burn. My ex-buddy, meanwhile, is griping that… Read more »

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Screwtape
7 months ago

Screwtape – stay strong, pal. My situation isn’t quite as dire, as I deliberately put both physical and emotional distance between me and my parents/sibs. I have yet to even call my 90 year old mother because I cannot bear to hear the standard line she’s sure to be parroting (classic liberal-totalitarian FDR silent generation). My late mother-in-law, bless her, was fond of the aphorism re “Fish and visiting relatives stink after 3 days.”

Stranger in a strange land
Stranger in a strange land
7 months ago

…”Public policy is always about trade-offs. This is true in the easy times and it is true in the terrible times. There are no cost-free solutions to problems”…. Agree with the first two sentences. However, when it comes to ‘no cost-free solutions’, in the current bizzaro-world of public policy the concept of ‘cost’ – at least in financial terms you and I might understand – I doubt has any relvenance. When a +/- $2 trillion stimulus is bandied about, and then is rejected because it’s still not enough – it might as well be a bazillion, or gazillion dollars stimulus.… Read more »

SamlAdams
SamlAdams
Reply to  thezman
7 months ago

Game over at that point. Just a timing question.

TomA
TomA
Reply to  SamlAdams
7 months ago

A well stocked hideaway in the mountains is looking better and better with each passing day.

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  Stranger in a strange land
7 months ago

Speaking of two cents. That will be my tax contribution for 2019.

I figure if the empire can create money from thin air they don’t need 30% of mine. Seems silly to even go through the motions. But I’m tempted to mail my two pennies to Fresno just to make someone deal with it.

Real money taxation and fake money printing is one of the greatest feats of TPTB.

Its also one of the more perverse examples of our anarcho-tyranny. Taxes or the business end of a gun for us. Money culled from the ether for them.

greyenlightenment
7 months ago

more lows for the market.. the panic is worse than the virus. lift the restrictions ,accept as that as many .5-1% of the us population will die, and get on with it . Crippling the economy to save a few thousand lives is bad policy

Deadlocked
Deadlocked
Reply to  greyenlightenment
7 months ago

Your math doesn’t check out. 0.5 to 1% of the US population isn’t the few thousand lives you think we’re crippling the economy to save. It’s 1.6 to 3.3 million.

greyenlightenment
Reply to  Deadlocked
7 months ago

you ares assuming it will be that many if nothing is done

miforest
Member
7 months ago

excellent breakdown . the guys over at the american sun have a great take on the limits of the change that will come out of this . https://theamericansun.com/2020/03/23/a-premature-celebration/

Alzaebo
Reply to  miforest
7 months ago

Miforest, only 3 paragraphs in, jumped back to say this is really good stuff.

It starts out with Ferfal as an example; Argentina after its 2001 collapse is still standing, still corrupted, still with the same ruling class. Globalism didn’t die in the pampas.

2nd comment in:
“We are told to have 6 months saved in case of emergency. Many try very hard to achieve this. Meanwhile, corporate America declares insolvency after one month? Send the bastards packing. Rip the C-suiters out of their offices, strip them naked, and do that Game of Thrones thing.”

SamlAdams
SamlAdams
7 months ago

Spent most of the last twenty years in the “adviser” role to C-level execs. Do a fair amount of shot-calling, but the primary objective is to cut through fog and bad information. Right now we’re operating in a very short cycle OODA loop–and as with all good strategy–it’s not about how good the plan is, but how fast you adjust to new information. All “C’s” come with distinct strengths and weaknesses and you have to size those up quickly and fill the gaps. That is what is interesting about watching how Trump and the governors deal with COVID–inherently a hugely… Read more »

SamlAdams
SamlAdams
Reply to  thezman
7 months ago

Agree. Washington has become almost completely insulated from the feedback loops that hammer poor decision making in the real world. We can’t print money and can’t borrow infinitely to cover mistakes. We go out of business.

BadThinker
BadThinker
Reply to  SamlAdams
7 months ago

Well you go out of business, unless you are too big to fail.

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Reply to  SamlAdams
7 months ago

Poor John Boyd.

Tarstarkusz
Tarstarkusz
7 months ago

The leftists are coming out of the woodwork trying push through all the evil things they want to do, allegedly to “flatten the curve” There is a spate of articles about releasing all those non-violent good boys who dindu nuffin and just happen to be sitting in jail because they are black or brown and cops were picking on them. They are even pushing for releasing people from prison! My governor is considering releasing a bunch of “old” prisoners and all the allegedly “non violent” felons who committed enough serious crime to get sent up-state. Of course, none of these… Read more »

Drake
Drake
Reply to  Tarstarkusz
7 months ago

Richard Pryor: “thank God we got penitentiaries!”

Member
Reply to  Tarstarkusz
7 months ago

Within bounds, I don’t think the prisoner release thing is a big deal. If Trump could say a few low-key words in support of it, it may help him with the minority vote. Or at least they’ll not see him as the racist MSM portrays him as. Anyway, I don’t see it as a big deal because in certain communities, often the only difference between prisoners, and their brethren who are still free to roam around, is some got caught, and the others haven’t yet.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Frip
7 months ago

The prisoners being freed, if a random selection or so, would seem to be dumping violent criminals back onto the street. To assume that these folk go back and prey on their communities (true to an extent) ignores the mountain of evidence that minority on White crime is the significant cause of White victimhood. So perhaps the Black guy who mugs me, has mugged 5 Black folks in the same week—how am I benefited? Yeah, it sucks to live in the hood, but it also sucks to be White when the odds of your being assaulted grow by 50-80% when… Read more »

Tarstarkusz
Tarstarkusz
Reply to  Compsci
7 months ago

YEP! Yeah, maybe it will harm more “Browns” than whites, but that’s their problem, not ours, at least it shouldn’t be our problem.

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Reply to  Compsci
7 months ago

Arm
Yourself

Tarstarkusz
Tarstarkusz
Reply to  Frip
7 months ago

Alleged right wingers have been capitulating to the left in order to not “look racist” and win the “minority vote” for decades. Where it has gotten us?
Prisons exist for a good reason. Crime never stays in the hood. Before prison we used to just execute people for serious crimes. Until we start doing that again, prisons are the next best thing.

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Reply to  Frip
7 months ago

Honestly if you are around “the community” unarmed and unwary you are A Candidate for the Darwin Award.

ConservativeFred
ConservativeFred
7 months ago

It is very difficult, even in the private sector, to wait before making a decision. In a high-functioning business, the first question asked should be “are we sure of the data?” While waiting to confirm the accuracy of the data, the second question should be what are the contingency plans (reviewing the trade-offs). Of course, this is also a danger because it is difficult to look at an array of options and delay a decision. The third question should be, “are we absolutely sure of the data.” During my career, 70% – 80% of the issues presented melted away because… Read more »

Balkan Fanatic
Balkan Fanatic
7 months ago

Trade-Offs What trade-offs? When you can issue 4T out of tin air there is no trade offs When you can shift the heavy burden of your stupidity and cowardice on those yet to be born what are the trade offs? Every single screeching effeminate asshole running scared has no problem with that as long as he survives and does not have to pay They will teach you how selfish you are while accepting this without a single sting of consciousness, they will be hoarding toilet paper and anything else while telling how terrible is to not think about your elders… Read more »

Jesco White
Jesco White
Reply to  Balkan Fanatic
7 months ago

Did anyone else notice Fractional Reserve Banking just ended? Reserve requirements are now 0% meaning a bank doesn’t need customers (deposits) to make infinite loans. I find the cashless society conspiracy folks amusing. You mean to say a society that can’t successfully implement a credit score system and stick to its repercussions (black people not being loan worthy) is going to up the ante to a social credit system? China is openly communist and 80% Han. The United States has a huge black market economy that would collapse without cash. Notice that India banned large denominated cash notes but allows… Read more »

Mark Stoval
Mark Stoval
7 months ago

How Coronavirus Cases in The U.S. Are Going to Explode Out of Nowhere — By Bill Sardi https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/03/no_author/how-coronavirus-cases-in-the-u-s-are-going-to-explode-out-of-nowhere/ This is a very good article for anyone to read who wants some perspective. Note the chart at the bottom is from The American Lung Association. Big Pharma and big Medicine is driving this hysteria. I can not believe that anyone who has studied how the seasonal flu works and studied who makes the most money off of the pain of the masses can not see how this “pandemic” is just a seasonal outbreak. Once people get out in the sun it… Read more »

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
7 months ago

The only Lawyer on TV who had talent, now retired, was Gerry Spence. You may recognize him as the Wyoming lawyer who dresses the part.

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  JR Wirth
7 months ago

As celebrity esquires go, Spence is the least noxious and some of his advice for trial lawyers is pretty sound (if fairly obvious for the most part).