Space Aliens & Talking Monkeys

On the Twitter machine, I saw this posted by Chris Hayes, a liberal airhead, who makes noise on cable television. Given that the BBC is advocating the return of blasphemy laws, I naturally assumed American liberals were now agitating for a police state. But, that was not the point of the tweet. It was a link to his article on something called The Hive. The irony was completely lost on him. Almost two decades ago Joe Sobran and Tom Bethell coined the term to describe the Left-Intellectual orthodoxy that rules us.

Hayes, of course, is an incurious dullard so it is hardly a surprise that he was unaware of the irony. MSNBC could have people dressed up in bumblebee costumes, dancing around the set of his show, and he would still not get it. Still, most people under the age 50 would not be aware of Joe Sobran and his writings about Progressive fanatics. The great convergence of the so-called Left and the so-called Right has sent all the old paleocons down the memory hole. Vast swaths of conservative thought has been largely forgotten.

The point here is that it is easy for information to get lost between generations. Most of the people, who were around when guys like Sobran were active, are either old men now or they were too young to appreciate what was being said. That and the long neocon war against Anglo-Saxon conservatism has gone on for so long that multiple generations of people have grown up believing these ideas were outside the realm of respectable thought. This has happened to libertarians, as well. How many Reason Magazine types are aware of Lew Rockwell?

The modern assumption is that human knowledge is accretive, which means it builds up over time. Each generation adds another layer of knowledge upon which subsequent generations puts down their layer of knowledge. After all, the technology of this age is more advanced than the technology of a century ago. The people in the age of the Great War were far more advanced than the people of the Napoleonic era. It certainly feels like technological progress is a steady accumulation from one generation to the next.

While it is true that we are technologically advanced compared to people in ancient Greece, the progress has been in fits and starts. Further, the progress has not been universal. The Greeks knew more about human nature and culture, for example, than modern people. Our intellectuals are advocates of the blank slate, which is a few clicks more ridiculous than the flat earth argument. Further still, some knowledge possessed by the ancients has been lost to us. Damascus steel and Greek fire are two examples.

There’s also something called The Sapien Paradox, which means, why did humans become smart so late? We know that the human brain evolved to its current state about 60,000 years ago. It took 50,000 years for humans to figure out agriculture. Over the last 10,000 years, humans developed symbolic concepts like notions of value, number and measure. Abstract social concepts like status and power, along with the symbols associated with them are, relatively speaking, very recent developments

Even in this recent run of progress, there were long periods where humans not only stagnated, but regressed. Life in Rome at the time of Julius Caesar was vastly better than life in Rome during the fifth century or even the tenth century. Agricultural technology regressed for much of the medieval period after the collapse of the Western Roman Empire. If you departed earth from Europe in 1900 and returned to Europe in 1950, you would have assumed society collapsed and fallen back into barbarism.

The fact is, the store of human knowledge has leaks and is susceptible to spoilage over successive generations. This is obvious in the current state of space exploration. Two generations of men went from zero to landing on the moon. Now we struggle to get payloads into space. Right now we can’t return to the moon. It will take a generation to accomplish what happened two generations ago. Imagine what would happen if some great calamity strikes the world like an epidemic or nuclear war.

What does this have to do with space aliens?

Given that humans needed 10,000 years to go from domesticating animals for the first time to making it to the moon, we have some idea of where visiting space aliens would be on the evolutionary timeline. They would be at least 10,000 years ahead of us, maybe more. The reason for that is the technological jump, from where we are now to effectively transporting anything to another solar system, is about the same as the jump from riding a horse for the first time to riding a rocket to the moon at back.

There’s also the fact that this alien race would have figured out the problem of knowledge boiling off between generations and especially between cataclysms. The most likely solution for former would be much longer lives. If humans lived for 200 active, vibrant years, a reasonably smart person could learn everything to be known in his field and have time to add to it. The latter problem would require accumulating enough knowledge to avoid the society destroying cataclysms that have been a feature of human history.

Of course, being a very long lived species would have an added benefit when it comes to space travel. Launching a human to Mars and back is a one year mission. Landing on the planet probably makes it a two year trip. That’s about ten percent of a man’s prime space travel years. If we assume space aliens can reach something close to light speed, they would still need 40 years to get anywhere interesting. If they had lives roughly equivalent to a thousand earth years, then a trip to visit us would be like us going to the moon.

There you have it. If space aliens are out there and able to reach earth, they will most certainly be a very long lived species. This is not just for the travel issue, but for the store of knowledge problem. They will also have to be a several orders of magnitude smarter than modern humans. To them, we will be a dumb version of our ancestors, who first left Africa. It’s entirely possible the space aliens will find the insects and fauna of our planet more interesting than the talking monkeys.

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Member

Or the tardigrades for that matter.

Digital storage / the Internet have at least made the physical destruction of our stores of knowledge unlikely, no?

krautokee
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krautokee

Depends on whether you have the equipment to read the digital files. Forty years ago a USB drive would have elicited blank stares.

karl hungus
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karl hungus

digital media have a far shorter lifespan than printed books.

Member

Just because information is stored does not mean a person can know it, or use it, or create new applications from it.

Doug
Guest
Doug

The Meat Space information highway. No substitute for it. Z’s comment about the fragility of the electron information highway is instructive. That 3rd is so dependent on it emotionally and have substituted so much real world endeavors with it, if they ever come rudely unplugged they will have one hell of a steep learning curve. This guy said something interesting: “The Deplorables have already considered what is coming. They are as prepared as they can be. Years of decline have enabled many to build their survival skills, to make due with less, to build real communities where one man can… Read more »

Jerry
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Jerry

You can argue that we are devolving intellectually as critical thinking is now being discouraged by our educational system.

karl hungus
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karl hungus

how do you think the arrival of such aliens would affect the market for side-kicks? seems the aliens would favor human side-kicks, IMO.

alzaebo
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alzaebo

We’ll make great pets!

Karl Horst
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Karl Horst

@ Alzaebo – I’m not so sure we’d make good pets, since unlike cats and dogs, we don’t domesticate very well long term. Dogs and cats have been house pets for thousands of years, yet even today they don’t get angry and try to murder their owners in their sleep! I suspect any civilization that can conquer space travel would have little use for us. Our natural resources, yes. Humans, not so much.

coyote
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coyote

“to serve man”…

calsdad
Guest
calsdad

Have you ever had a cat? They might not murder you in your sleep – but they will get pissed off at you and get you back. If domesticated cats were any bigger – they likely would murder you in your sleep if you did something to piss them off. As it is – they just do things like pee on your furniture – or wait until you’re sleeping – and take a leak directly into your open mouth (true story). For some reason this morning I woke up thinking about the nature of love, and one of those thoughts… Read more »

SamlAdams
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SamlAdams

Or you have perfected the ability to implant conciousness, with knowledge intact, into a new physical body.

Dutch
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Dutch

Or moving consciousness and memory from robot to robot, as each physical machine breaks down or wears out.

Member

You wrote “It took 50,000 years for humans to figure out agriculture.” and expressed surprise that it took so long. You also wrote “there were long periods where humans not only stagnated, but regressed” and mentioned the fall of Rome. I think that humans figured out agriculture quite early but frequently lost it due to the thieving and violence of the ‘liberals’ and ‘progressives’ of the day. We humans have a long history of stationary and mobile bandits and we don’t have those phrases for nothing. We also have a about a zillion folk tales of the ants, dirt people,… Read more »

Doug
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Doug
alzaebo
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alzaebo

Yes- our talent for empathy leads to our high trust systems. We’re dependable.
This is more important than, and aids formation of, higher IQ.

We’re not spending all of our processing space figuring out how to fight each other off.

Fast-evolved empathy makes us the mutants. Becoming a space-adapted phenotype would’ve been further fast evolution.

The Others lack empathy, spending most of their effort on screwing each other over.

Doug
Guest
Doug

Wow thats pretty good.
Interesting way of saying dirt people are generally decent and caring about each other in a country where millions of other people are slitting each others throats over a safety pin?

alzaebo
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alzaebo

Zman introduced us to HBD Chick, whose main thesis is that whites northwest of the ‘Hajnal line’ fast-evolved expanded altruism in about a 900 year period.
Some refer to the West as ‘hajnals’- I like it.

Doug
Guest
Doug

No kidding? Oh I want to read that, yes Sir. I’ve heard that before, Hajnal Line, lot of years ago it seems. Don’t recall any specifics. Appreciate you for the good word on it.

Karl Horst
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Karl Horst

Agriculture simply replaced the tradition of hunter gatherers and allowed for large populations to thrive. The real leap for human existence was the industrial revolution and the introduction of the steam engine. Prior to that, everything was limited to the maximum energy one could harness from a beast of burden. But while we have continued to advance technologically, the human condition – despite repeated periods of ‘enlightenment’ – has remained constant. Which is why 10,000 years later, we’re still slaughtering each other over who’s god is the better god and Nike tennis shoes. The real threat to science (religion not… Read more »

alzaebo
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alzaebo

The whites had settled their religious wars, and weren’t killing over Nikes.

In 1910, no one in the rising age of prosperity could imagine that two world wars were around the corner- until the war financiers and their agents got to work.

War has an active agent.
It’s not natural to a cooperative species like trade is.
We’ve got to reign in our sociopaths, about 2 percent of any population; some populations enculture a much higher embedded percentage.

Karl Horst
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Karl Horst

@ alzaebo – My comment wasn’t towards whites or blacks in particular, but towards the human condition in general. Humans have been killing each other and stealing from each other since arrived here. Whether you use stones or atomic bombs, the intent and purposes are identical.

alzaebo
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alzaebo

I agree with you, and look for the mechanisms and some slight cure.

Remember, we used to be told that we couldn’t do anything about disease, hunger, or poverty. (Or immigration or Obamacare)

alzaebo
Guest
alzaebo

Euros responded to invasive pressures with exploration, and to labor shortages from bubonic plague by valuing individual worth. Our peoples had opened the endless frontier of space, an escape from the Hive. Dave Goldman (“Spengler”) gives us the Hive formula for victory: kill one third of the breeding age males of two generations, fathers and sons, and there shall be peace. This was done to the Euros in the great 30 Years War called World War 1 and WW2. Perhaps there’s a reason the space programs were also killed. We were that close to escape- now we’ve been penned in… Read more »

alzaebo
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alzaebo

White fraction of global population:
1940: one third
2016: one eighth
Now outnumbered 12 to 1

alzaebo
Guest
alzaebo

Sorry, 8 to 1, math is hard for Barbie- but she f**king loves science and consensus

Karl Horst
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Karl Horst

@ Alzaebo – They say 3 out of 2 people have trouble with fractions. 🙂

Dan Kurt
Member
Dan Kurt

re: 12 to 1 or 8 to 1 –alzaebo

12 to 1 is probably accurate since the US government classifies Hispanics as being whites as well as the denizens from MENA.

Dan Kurt

Guest
Guest
Guest

If it’s 1/8 then you are actually outnumbered 7 to 1.

Gerard Van der Leun
Member

” Agricultural technology regressed for much of the medieval period after the collapse of the Western Roman Empire. If you departed earth from Europe in 1900 and returned to Europe in 1950, you would have assumed society collapsed and fallen back into barbarism.”

Really?

Al from da Nort
Guest
Al from da Nort

So how to account for the apparent lack of alien contact_? Unless and until faster-than-light travel is developed, the distances are so vast that it actually wouldn’t likely matter how long-lived the alien species is. They still will have to reproduce themselves and thus have plenty of generations to forget what it took to get them launched or how to steer their space ark.

It’s entropy of information that has saved our sorry species from alien predation_! 😉

james wilson
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james wilson

It’s either spooky action at a distance or nothing.

james wilson
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james wilson

Hayak believed that were the complex and ingenious solutions which capitalism brought to life were replaced with socialist rule that earth would support approximately one tenth of the current population, and that was before African populations grew exponentially under imported calories.

TomA
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TomA

For most of the history of life on Earth, the mechanism of evolution was genetic and slow (e.g. fitness improvements emerged gradually). For Homo sapiens, this changed fundamentally during the past few millennia. With the advent of complex language skill, we now possess the means of reprogramming our youth during their formative years and thereby altering their fitness traits in real time. Thus a parallel evolutionary channel is now open based upon memetic manipulation and encoding. Instead of nature rewarding robustness in the cauldron of existential hardship, man-made mental habits are now rewarding hive behavior. Our species is evolving toward… Read more »

Drake
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Drake

I had never heard of Chris Hayes – but somebody had tuned one of the TVs at the gym to MSNBC last year. The most spectacularly punchable smug face I’ve ever seen came on and I almost fell off the elliptical machine. He is the living embodiment of liberal douche bag idiocy.

Brad
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Brad

10,000 years ago man walked at 7 miles an hour.
People commonly travel today at 70 miles an hour.
The fastest a human has ever traveled is Mach 6.3 (5000 miles an hour.)
Light speed is 670,000,000 miles an hour.

Yet we talk about light speed as if it’s a tune-up on my old 442.

thor47
Guest
thor47

The 442 did require timing light speed.

Member

I know that this is a function of our current abundance, but a lot of old technologies have become hobbies. About a decade or so ago, some cat cracked the code of flint napping and now there are whole clubs that make arrow and spearheads. There are videos on line of hobbyists making their own vacuum tubes. Kee-rist, there’s about 20 linear feet of aisle space of canning stuff at Walmart, so someone’s still doing it Of course a time of troubles (not a full on dark ages) lasting thirty years or so, and a lot of the anachronistic hobbies… Read more »

Sirlancelot
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Sirlancelot

I’m a fan of genetic engineering. Paraphrasing here ,but it went something like if we altered one gene for every generation in a hundred years we would be the equivalent of monkeys to our offspring.

If our “space cousins” have already mastered this technology it could be easy to understand why they would be the advanced species.

James
Guest
James

I know that I am rasing an entirely different issue. But, I believe it is one worth raising. You wrote: ” Even in this recent run of progress, there were long periods where humans not only stagnated, but regressed. Life in Rome at the time of Julius Caesar was vastly better than life in Rome during the fifth century or even the tenth century. Agricultural technology regressed for much of the medieval period after the collapse of the Western Roman Empire.” I read Rodney Stark’s “How the Wes Won: The Neglected Story of the Triumph of Modernity”. In it he… Read more »

Sam J.
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Sam J.

“…We know that the human brain evolved to its current state about 60,000 years ago. It took 50,000 years for humans to figure out agriculture. Over the last 10,000 years, humans developed symbolic concepts like notions of value, number and measure…” I have a theory about what occurred to make civilization possible. I bet some of you have heard of the bicameral mind theory. Mine is different but deals with a large change in the mind. I believe that primitive Men were what we call today psychopaths. Very little to no empathy. The Neanderthals seem to be this way and… Read more »

Will
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Will

An impediment to a visit to earth by aliens is our astrogeography. We are out in the boondocks with many more interesting and nearer targets of exploration available to a spacefaring species.

Linda Fox
Member

I have to disagree about the need for expanded lifetimes. What is more important is making an end to the practice of wiping out unorthodox thought, and creating ‘unpersons’ – those who are hounded out of work and public life for their promotion of ‘unacceptable thought’. That practice is widely used by Liberals/ProgressiveLeftist Brownshirts, and contributes to the diminishing of collective knowledge. For all that they use the “McCarthyism” hairshirt, the Left is the most vicious and determined user of smears, lies, and demonization of those who DARE to oppose them in thought, words, or actions. Currently, they have hounded… Read more »

Eric Mack
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Eric Mack

I’m sorry, but “knowledge” is a somewhat absurd concept. Yes, download your bits of information. Can 21st century humans create a new sculpture, not a copy, as beautiful as Athenians 2500 years ago? Windows like those in Chartres? Poetry and drama equal to Aeschylus, Homer or Shakespeare? Have we built anything that compares to a gothic Cathedral in Prague?
Yes, we can download the pictures, but can we re create what is lost? I don’t think so and all the ISO 9000 manuals we upload won’t matter.

TRX
Guest
TRX

In the end, your Greek sculpture is just a carved rock, and your stained glass windows are useless for looking out of.

The 20th century was more about performance art.
The sea and the sky are ours; orbital space is crowded with our satellites, and we’ve left our abandoned rovers and gum wrappers across the Moon and Mars. And Voyager 1 is 138 AU out, heading in the general direction of the star Gleise 445.