Who And How Many

The immigration debate in America, and maybe the West as a whole, is not much of a debate, at least as far as public policy. Instead, it is something of a meta-debate, in that the facts and important decisions are talked about indirectly. For example, in the US, everyone sort of thinks it is about Mexican immigration, but no one ever explicitly speaks to the facts about Mexican immigration. Details about who is actually coming over the border or gaming the anchor baby system remains a mystery.

As is always the case with big issues in America, immigration is debated on purely moral terms and even there, the morality is not explicit. No one ever bothers to explain why America is a “nation of immigrants” or whether that’s salient. For that matter, no one can seem to wrap their head around why immigration of any sort is morally good. Even immigration hawks go to great lengths to speak well of legal immigrants. Ours is a meta-debate about the morality of undefined policies stripped of facts and details.

Imagine a public debate over building a bridge across a local river. The salient facts would be the cost, where to put it and who benefits from the bridge. Instead, one side talks endlessly about the morality of building bridges. It’s who they are. By extension, those who oppose bridge building in the abstract are immoral in some way. The other side, in contrast, spends its time trying prove they are not opposed to bridge building, but simply have questions about where to put this bridge and how much to spend on it.

Even when someone tries to talk about the economics of immigration, putting aside cultural preferences and demographic reality, the debate soon veers into a weird sort of romanticism. It’s just assumed that jobs are going unfilled due to the lack of labor. There’s never any examination of the claims. Further, it is assumed that temporary labor shortages in one area of a continent sized country are immoral. Rising wages are treated like an insult to the economy, this vaguely understood thing we must worship.

The fact is though, the reality of all public policy is that it is and will be a debate over the facts of the issue. That reality can be wished away for a long time, but eventually the reality comes home. That’s what we are seeing with the stand-off between Trump and the Cult of Brown Ascendancy. We’re slowing creeping up on the fact that immigration is about who and how many. That is, who will we accept and how many of them will we accept. Immigration has always been about who and how many.

Those are not a questions most Americans are equipped to answer. The how many part is the easiest, especially if you start with zero as the default. No one is walking around thinking to themselves, “We really need more Eritreans around here.” If immigration was capped at zero, no one would notice. In fact, if there was a moratorium and the government started to aggressively deport people, even those in the system, most people would not care. In other words, the how many number is a small number.

The tougher question is what sorts of immigrants will we accept, even in limited numbers. In the Mid-Atlantic, where a large Korean community exists, most people would be fine with Korean immigration. Unlike the Chinese, Koreans are not fleeing political oppression or economic uncertainty. Koreans come here for lifestyle reasons, so they assimilate rapidly. They also take pride in being the model minority, despite what what some lefty advocates claim. Koreans came here to be Americans.

At the other end, no one would want any Muslims from the Middle East, as they simply don’t fit a modern Western country. Everywhere Muslim migration has been high, we see terrorist barriers, armed patrols and absurd security measures. In fact, most Americans could be convinced that we make an exception to the First Amendment and ban Islam, maybe even deport all Muslims. It has not worked and it can never work. The Western policy toward that part of the country should first be containment.

Similarly, sub-Saharan Africans are a no-go. America has a long history of trying to integrate Africans into a Europeans country. It does not work. Most people can accept the moral obligation to the descendants of former slaves, even if their ancestors were not slave holders. Bringing in a new population of unassimilable people, with a natural hostility to Europeans makes no sense. Again, no one is walking around wondering how things are going in Chad. That and American blacks don’t like African migrants.

One of the interesting things that happens when you start to think “from where and how many” is the how many becomes an easier question the more you think honestly about the “from where” part. For Americans, the real issue is how many South Americans we will accept. That quickly reduces to a much simpler question. Do we need any of them? For most people, the answer is no, we don’t need more people. Therefore, the only question left is are we morally bound to take anyone in for permanent settlement.

That, of course, is why the open borders crowd prefers to keep this a meta-debate about meta-morality. Once you start thinking about the facts, the default on immigration swings 180 degrees. The default becomes zero and building a massive barrier to entry makes complete sense. The debate is over the exceptions and more important, the conditions for those exceptions. The moral authority becomes the will of the people, rather than a self-selected cult of true believers divorced from daily reality.

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Ganderson
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Ganderson

European hockey players and their hot wives. That’s it.

Mcleod
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Mcleod

An Engrish teacher friend of mine talks about teaching refugees while he was in College in the early nineties. He was working for Catholic Charities and started out teaching Vietnamese refugees Engrish. He claims they were great. Wanted to be Americans. Wanted to start their own businesses. Came to every class offered. Cried like babies when they got their citizenship. Then, they started to get Somalis and he quit. They had multiple wives and countless children which allowed them to game the system for “assistance”. None of them gave a rat’s ass about learning Engrish or about job training. His… Read more »

Glenfilthie
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Glenfilthie

Well I think a lot of people are waking up to the realities of this. I read a horror story from a young mom who just wanted to take the family kids swimming one day. They all load up, go down to the pool – and find that admission is now $20.00 a kid. While they’re hashing this out – a bunch of happy, jubilant brown kids go swarming past the cashier and flash red wrist bands. They were ‘pore n’ starvin’ so they got to go for free. That mom had to pack her kids up, and take them… Read more »

Drake
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Drake

For some reason, thousands of Somalis immigrants were dumped in Lewistown, Maine. Not sure if it was a kind of a joke to settle them into an bankrupt old mill town with long harsh winters, or just a place nobody thinks about – out of sight and mind.

Of course crime, welfare, violence, trash on the street, and all the other benefits of vibrancy spiked upon their arrival. Good thinking people all purposely don’t notice any of it.

Calsdad
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Calsdad

Out of sight and out of mind – in a bankrupt mill town in Maine – means they’re all here living on “public assistance” of some form or another. Which brings about the question that I keep asking immigration activists over and over and over again: Why the hell are we IMPORTING people – to put them on welfare? Can you explain the logic of that to me? So far – over a number of years – NO TAKERS. There was a story circulating a week or so ago – that said something like 65% of immigrant households were reliant… Read more »

Carrie
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Ahhhh, Carlsdad. There’s your problem.
You’re off using that pesky LOGIC thing again.
Pathological altruists cannot be fought with logic. It simply doesn’t work. Emotion is where it’s at.
(I myself am still working on how to address this seemingly un-winnable “discussion” that they like to have [lecture] with us.)
Maybe something like: “My brother was mur dered by an Eritrean or Chadian Musloid just looking for a better life. To remember him by, I have scanned some of the crime scene photos and carry them with me. Wanna see?”

Calsdad
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Calsdad

Yes – I realize that.

That’s why when the logic thing falls flat – I go directly to the argument:

” why is it that there are so many people that keep doing things that make me wish they were just dead ? ”

And then you just smile at them.

BadThinker
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BadThinker

The rejoinder I commonly see is “Who are we to keep them out?” These people are completely lost. The dude probably has DeAndre come over to impregnate his wife.

Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman
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Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman

Okay, this is not something that is simply “happening.” It’s something that is being done. We are being replaced. So are the native populations of ALL white countries. Because the globalists must remove the only peoples of the world capable of offering *effective* resistance to their brave new world. And yes, it really is that simple. It is working at present because of the social mood, which is founded, although unconsciously, upon the easy and cheap availability of ALL resources. But that is going to change, as it must, and then, and only then, will this stuff be stopped. But… Read more »

Calsdad
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Calsdad

That’s my point of asking the logical question of “why do we keep IMPORTING people and dumping them on welfare?”.

It FORCES the issue and makes the lunatics admit that they’re engaging in their lunacy based on emotion.

You’re correct – this is something that isn’t just “happening”

Raymond Karcher
Member

The logic is that all of these welfare recipients really do add to GDP. They are consumers of the best type-they spend every dime you give them and save nothing. We live in a debt fueled, consumption driven economy in which the rate of growth must be ever increasing or the whole house of cards comes crashing down. The mess is not sustainable, but our elites have done pretty well in perpetuating this mess so far.

The McChuck
Member

The US Department of State purposefully resettles blacks and Muslims in majority white areas to alter the gene pool and get Democrat votes.

Larkin Lover
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Larkin Lover

Here in south Louisiana back in the early 80s we got a ton of Vietnamese transplants at the end of Vietnam war. For some reason carter decided to bless our community with them! “Just dump it on those dumb southerners.” I personally like Asians too, but they rapidly outcompeted the local shrimpers. Of course, they are willing to work their fingers to the bone, evolved as they are to survive in the hyper competitive, densely overpopulated environs of Southeast Asia. There were actual fire fights with machine guns between native Louisianan fishermen and Vietnamese trawlers over fishing turf. My point… Read more »

Member

“outcompeted” is a subjective term. Part of the problem was that methods of fishing were different, and locals felt like the Vietnamese were overfishing. Another big part of the problem was that the Carter administration financed their boats which gave them a large competitive advantage over the locals

Issac
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Issac

You will find virtually any such instance of “highly competitive immigrants,” is accompanied by a federal grant in aid, special dispensation, or otherwise putting a state finger on the scale. The only myth is the understanding most Americans have, that immigrants are naturally hard working.

Calsdad
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Calsdad

I do get a little bit sick of that argument. The entire argument seems to rest on a foundation of American myth – where the feats of settlers were probably completely exaggerated to almost superhuman levels. I have seen some of that “work the fingers to the bone” behavior out of Vietnamese I worked with in the early 80’s – but these were people who escaped the commie takeover – and then lived in refugee camps for years before getting here. Working 14 hours a day to them was *relative* luxury. They also worked from a basis of a large… Read more »

Larkin Lover
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Larkin Lover

Oh they’re still like that. I work at the casinos where they are numerous. Their wives pack them dinners and the menfolk will often work two or more jobs.

Calsdad
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Calsdad

I worked in a printing plant right out of high school.

We had quite a few Vietnamese working there – and I got along well with them. There were one pair – who you simply couldn’t STOP from working. We used to call them the Amphetimine Twins , because they seemed to have so much energy.

Dutch
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Dutch

The Vietnamese are the Dirt People of Asia (and get treated like it by the rest of the Asians).

Member

Last week Trump announced this:
H1-B [sic] holders in the United States can rest assured that changes are soon coming which will bring both simplicity and certainty to your stay, including a potential path to citizenship,”

So even he caves on some part of immigration. Actually he caves on a lot of things.
The U.S. has had long moratoriums on immigration before in our history, step one is starting another one. Then soft deportations and the like to follow. I know, wake up.

Issac
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Issac

The woke take on this is that H1B rules have been tightened by the admin and this tweet was a “troll,” due to the fact H1B already allows a green card and citizenship application. Ergo the intended message is something like “most of you are going back and you know it.”

Whether or no this is true, “skilled,” visa immigration is vastly more harmful to the US population than unskilled peasant laborers, in the long term. The latter drains the public coffers and increases crime. The former gains control over vital institutions and turns them against the host population.

BadThinker
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BadThinker

Brahmins take over IT leadership positions at large corporations, and suddenly TATA, Infosys, and WiPro are getting all the contracts. And no Americans are promoted to management positions. I’m sure it has nothing to do with ethnic nepotism at all. They posted the job in the back of the journal of mainframe engineering after all and no Americans applied!

Vegetius
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Vegetius

It’s not a cave.

Trump is supposed to making it harder to bypass US citizens as well as pay H1Bs less.

FTN looked at this over the weekend.

Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman
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Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman

Which is why we are going to end up like Spain in the 1930s.

Member

I think it’s more complicated. Greg Hood has noted that the debate over immigration is really a coded debate over the racial composition of the United States. Immigration advocates are not pushing for greater immigration from Europe. Immigration opponents sense what Mestizo and Amerindian migration, both legal and illegal, is doing to the racial makeup of the United States (i.e., the dispossession of white Americans), but they cannot publicly say this, for fear of being labeled racist. Insofar as even Korean immigration is concerned, I see no more reason to import an overclass than an underclass.

DeBeers Diamonds
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DeBeers Diamonds

No European nation-state has a TFR above replacement. The highest fertility rate among Indo-Europeans is in Chechnya.

South Korea has a basement-level TFR, we are importing people that are shirking conscription.

A.B. Prosper
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A.B. Prosper

The highest White Fertility rate is among the Amish and its at I don’t between 5 and 7. The current Chechen TFR is estimated to be at 2.5 or so and declining In a few years at current rate and note projections can hold over a few years to a at most decade or so, it will reach replacement or maybe lower That has self corrected No developed nation has high fertility mainly because of urbanization and economic incentives not to have children If we want to fix this and be stable if not grow it will require taking capitalism… Read more »

Calsdad
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Calsdad

Sorry – but I don’t see “capitalism” as the problem. The money taken out of my pocket BY FORCE thru taxation is not a feature of capitalism. Speaking as somebody who actually has an 8 week old infant sitting at home – I don’t see the problem being “capitalism” – but rather a completely over-reaching government (socialism) that takes what wealth I create – and redistributes it to a bunch of people who don’t do a damn thing. What is the birth rate of immigrants and the black underclass? Just read an article that said that 65% of immigrant households… Read more »

A.B. Prosper
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A.B. Prosper

Not likely as I’ve never seen this before. Its interesting though. And as for Carlsdad’s hard work, well yes however running a society that allows your work to reach its potential requires the right conditions and these are costly. Propriety is not created in a vacuum while yes by individuals (the persons deserving the most reward) in conditions that require inputs that must be paid for There is plenty of room to cut waste as the shutdown shows but you are still going to pay taxes and lots pf them Also you are coming from an assumption that you have… Read more »

Calsdad
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Calsdad

LOL. I never said no state. And you’re probably one of the reasons why I keep coming away from the comment section here with reaking stench of leftism coming out of my browser. The fact remains that (as you pointed out) – I cannot escape the state and it’s taxation. And what is going on NOW – is that that state is raping me financially to support my enemies. All of those crying about white birth rates completely fail to pay attention to this – while yelling and screaming about wanting to keep their welfare state (as you just did)… Read more »

A.B. Prosper
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A.B. Prosper

You can avoid some taxes pretty easily, cut your income and standard of living as low as you possibly can without causing injury to your family. In any case the way the economy works, mostly because of automation, any gains you think you’d get from lower taxes would just go to the top 10% of wage earners, more likely the 1% The global demand for labor is much lower than the population and automation allow for. This is structural and global BTW, cheaper labor and machines took good paying jobs (or is that jerbs) Now mass repatriation of all illegals,… Read more »

calsdad
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calsdad

I keep hearing that argument – and it’s horseshit. As I already said: I can’t escape the grasp of the taxman unless I want to live like Ted Kazinski. Making the argument that I should give up any standard of living at all – just to avoid the taxman – is basically agreement with my point that there is no escape from the government. Whereas there IS escape from corporations – because I can simply refuse to buy their shit (unless I’m forced to by Obamacare) – and there isn’t a goddam thing they can do about it – UNLESS… Read more »

DeBeers Diamonds
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DeBeers Diamonds

It was Jack Straw, former Home Secretary in the UK, who was said to have favored mass immigration as a way of “rubbing the Right’s nose in diversity”. So sadistic-sexual humiliation of your enemies is an unspoken premise of the left’s position. In the same vein, the Right is held collectively responsible for its foreign policy failures. Such that Central American wars that ended nearly three decades ago are held as a justification for “asylum”. Here we have some responsibility, if we don’t stop the war machine we will get more invaders invited. If anything, the Pentagon budget should be… Read more »

NITZAKHON
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Throughout history, one side has invited in foreigners to help them deal with their opposition. History is replete with the failure of that tactic.

You’d think those uber-educated elites would study history…

Calsdad
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Calsdad

That’s similar to an argument I’ve made with right wingers for going on 20 years now. Whenever we get involved overseas , and especially when we go to war in one country or another……. you can GUARANTEE that is going to open up the floodgates of immigration from that region. It’s happened over and over and over again. Unfortunately – it appears that pointing out facts to right wing dimwits does nothing to change their Neocon influenced “opinions” , or their lust for sending US troops overseas, nor their bitching about the immigration that follows. Hey dummies – if you… Read more »

Mr.P.
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Mr.P.

A different view to consider: The Neocons are NOT right-wing conservatives. The Neocons are Trotskyites, that is, progressive communist liberals who insinuated themselves into the Republican Party to, ironically, “fight communism.” All wars since and including World War One have been leftist wars to root out and destroy “monarchy” in all its myriad manifestations.

Compsci
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Compsci

DeBeers, perhaps—or perhaps we use the military to take over these countries and colonize them as the British did 100 years ago. Replacing the elites in these countries might send a powerful message for reform to the other surrounding crap holes to get their act together and not dump their “surplus” population onto our shores. And no, I don’t necessarily see this as nation building and spreading democracy.

DeBeers Diamonds
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DeBeers Diamonds

There are three classes of immigration: Third-to-Third, Third-to-First and the largely unknown First-to-Third. The first class attracts little attention, Westerners don’t care if there is movement of Congolese to Nigeria. Locals do care. The second attracts opposition in the First World, but is supported by transnational elites in the First and Third World. The third is unheard of, aside from a few “expats” that don’t typically form sustaining communities. It would be a good way of exporting some troublesome over-credentialed lefties.

A.B. Prosper
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A.B. Prosper

If the US had an interregnum they could do this, strip troublesome parties of their citizenship and send them to live in the third world. They’d have to pay off the nations accepting them but could use the funds we levy for sedition if they feel sadistic or just use the general fund And note this means no developed world especially Europe for them Its probably better to not wound an enemy though and just deal them out. Doing so would also require desiring and using power and our sob sister “right” and the liberty cucks would rather suicide than… Read more »

Martyr Evy
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Martyr Evy

I think the most difficult idea to wrestle is the comparison made by both sides out of immigrants of today, who come from Mexico/Central/South America, and the immigrants that came during the period of big waves after the Civil War, who were exclusively European. By definition, our ancestors were immigrants during that period of time, but in practicality they were really settlers because America had almost no utilities or public resources to leech off of, they helped build everything that we see in our big cities like NYC and Chicago, the roads, the bridges, skyscrapers, and basically everything out west.… Read more »

Compsci
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Compsci

You seem to be touching upon the concept of the Welfare State. Strictly enforce who can collect (in whatever form that takes) and 80% of today’s problems go away (with 80% of the immigrants, legal and illegal). 😉

Calsdad
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Calsdad

The welfare state should be COMPLETELY done away with. You want a handout? Go to church or go back to your own family.

The welfare state is a feature of socialism/communism – not capitalism.

Hoagie
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Hoagie

Thee left as usual conflates illegal and legal immigration so they can accuse everybody against illegals and The Wall of being racists. Most people hate being called a racist. Not me. I know as soon as that word is thrown about I hit a nerve and they’d rather curse, scream and cast epithets than discuss, debate or compromise. IOW, I won. To even the casual observer today’s immigration policy does not exist. Today’s illegal alien defense and deportation plan also does not exist. And since the only immigrants currently coming in any amount noticeable are Mohammedans, Africans, Asians and Hispanics.… Read more »

Kentucky Headhunter
Guest

Americans (White, Christian, Nationalist) who have already woken up know that they answer to who is “nobody” and the answer to how many is “start massive deportations now”. But no one in power gives a shit what Americans think. Steve King is off his committee assignments because is says “It’s OK to be white”.

Agree with whoever said that “Americans” basically have no political representation in their own country. Trump is as wrong as often he is right.

c matt
Guest
c matt

Which puts him at 50%, well above the majority of his predecessors.

Member

SJW response: “People aren’t bridges!”

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

LOL.

They are if you pile them up deep enough.

DLS
Guest
DLS

Unfortunately, the pyramid schemes of social security and medicare, along with a white birthrate below replacement, has created the need for more young people to prop it all up. If you don’t procreate the next generation, you have to import them or do the hard work of reforming entitlements. Whether the welfare given to immigrants overtakes it all and bankrupts the system is an open question. But it’s a fair bet that once whites are the minority, cuts to their promised entitlements will be inevitable. There are several possible ways this all collapses, but until then it’s not about bringing… Read more »

Member

Do you really believe that we need to import black and brown hordes in order to pay for social security, social security disability, Medicaid, Medicare, and other welfare programs?

Financing entitlements is just a matter of digits.

DLS
Guest
DLS

Not at all. I’m saying we need whites to procreate more. But if they don’t, the liberal idiots that created the system will try to prop it up with young brown people. I am not saying this will work or that it is good policy. I believe this will further expand the bloated state until it collapses. I’m just saying it’s one of the rationalizations the elite are using to justify the invasion. And financing entitlements might be a matter of digits, but do you think any of our current politicians are capable of that?

DeBeers Diamonds
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DeBeers Diamonds

We don’t breed in captivity.

A.B. Prosper
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A.B. Prosper

I like this. Its also possible that the developed world has reached its social carrying capacity. 60 million people in the UK which historically supported well under 10 million is nuts. Germany has over 80 million crammed into a nation the size of New Mexico which has a population of two million, granted its desert but still Urban societies always lose population either to disease or to conditions as logic dictates smaller families. As we are now an urban society and our suburban escape route no longer works, it makes sense for some population decline I do think roughly 30%… Read more »

Gravity Denier
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Gravity Denier

Whites can’t and won’t outbreed the Africans, mestizos, and Allah the others. Think again.

Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman
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Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman

This might interest you:

https://www.biohistory.org/

Flair 1239
Member

I think the procreation issue would be self correcting if left to our own devices.

If we allowed the population to fall naturally we would expect to see rising wages along with rising productivity over the long term.

The rising wages would make two incomes less necessary. I realize this is an oversimplification but it is pretty hard to have a herd of children when you both have to work.

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

The problem is that rising wages puts us at a severe competitive disadvantage with the rest of the world. The problem is that we have a “logistical tail” that is FAR too large. It’s why I keep saying that – if you look at the ENTIRETY of the tax load – and where that goes , then you look at what the average taxpayer’s tax load is (it’s been estimated by some of the taxpayer advocacy organizations at 65%) – the the solution starts to become apparent. And that solution is to RUTHLESSLY cut out all the waste. The means… Read more »

A.B. Prosper
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A.B. Prosper

A pro tip, the US is a resource rich continent and does not need to trade with anyone. At one point our economy was 93% domestic and it can easily go back there with good stewardship and without greatly impoverishing its people . Money cucks who put corporate profits above the health of society are as bad if not worse than the Cultural Marxists Oh its OK if no one will have children because they don’t have stable work, Proctor and Gamble made record profits this year Fuck that. The wages must fall crowd is also responsible for mass immigration… Read more »

Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman
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Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman

The state is not going to collapse, okay? There *will*, however, be a currency crisis–worldwide–which will collapse the currency (although the US dollar will be the last to go, since it’s the best house in a bad neighborhood). The state will survive, though, at least outwardly (as a hollow shell). But there will be *other* states that will arise within what used to be the (current) state’s territory, and *that* will be a problem. Think Spain in the 1930s.

A.B. Prosper
Guest
A.B. Prosper

Assuming removal of most Non whites we’d have 250 million or so White people I’m mean really, how much is enough? 300 million, 5000, a billion , a billion five? Too many people makes for a lousy society. They key is not building anything predicated on constant growth and consumption whether its a business model, social security or the whole economy . People only want and need so much and when the wants are met which is easy to do , we need to find deal with the efficiency Now if we really want more people its going tor require… Read more »

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

DLS, this is not about propping up the system. It is actually twofold. One is cheap labor with no workplace rights (as per the C of C contingent) and the other is replacing us with a more pliable and dependable constituency (as per the Progs). The “propping up the system” thing is a smokescreen.

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

There is a mechanism within humans that adjusts male vs female birth ratio to keep them roughly equal. It also adjusts for resources – humans aren’t the only ones that do this , animals have built in mechanisms to bring down birth rates in times of scarce resources. I would hypothesize that – white people, having evolved in a harsher environment than other races with brown skin – have a birth rate mechanism that is more refined , in that it is more ‘sensitive’ to the influences of environment and population than other races. The Japanese are also having low… Read more »

Compsci
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Compsci

Financing entitlements is first and foremost understanding who uses them and how much they contribute toward their maintenance (pay into the system). I’d say, 90% of the current immigrant crowd use more tax dollars than they will ever contribute and their children into the second and even third generations show no better promise in this regard. That is the inevitable result of importing low level 3rd world intellects ito a first world highly advanced technical society. Sooner or later something has to give.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

“once whites are the minority, cuts to their promised entitlements will be inevitable.”

As sure as gravity.
That’s DLS’s point.

Member

Sure, he’s besieged, but why doesn’t Trump step-up and unabashedly defend representative King while denouncing the likes of Charles “the cuck” Grassley, Mitt “the marsh-mellow” Romney, and Kevin “the kike kissing” McCarthy?

A.B. Prosper
Guest
A.B. Prosper

Because he is a civic nationalist and has Jewish family. He doesn’t hate White people at all but he feels uncomfortable with being pro White too.

He is about as good as elections will get and partially on our side but President Trump is not one of us

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Trump is trying to navigate treacherous ground, but he is fundamentally not a “burn the house down” kind of guy. He does like setting small fires here and there, in the right places at the right moments.

Wolf Barney
Guest
Wolf Barney

I’ve found most normies think our immigration policy has always been this way. After all, “we’re a nation of immigrants.” They don’t know about the 1965 Hart-Celler Act, or the 1921 and ’24 Acts, or the Chinese Exclusion Act, and certainly not the Naturalization Act of 1790. They think the immigration we have is natural and an integral part of America and it’s “who we are”, as long as it’s legal. “Who and how many” needs to be how immigration is discussed. For the “who,” Trump opened that door with his talk of a Muslim ban. (unfortunately he said, “temporary.”)… Read more »

Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman
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Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman

Not to mention “WHERE are we?”

Sleepy
Member
Sleepy

Well, I think we can answer some basic questions: According to the US Census Bureau, there are 59 million people living the US who are Hispanic, and 37 million of them are Mexican. That means that 22% of Mexicans (not including those living in other foreign countries) live in the US. I’d say we have enough Mexicans to satisfy our “need for diversity.” In addition, 62% of Puerto Ricans (we can’t do anything to stem this tide), 27% of Salvadorans, 17% of Cubans, 16% of Dominicans, 9% of Hondurans and 8% of Guatemalans live in the US. And so on.… Read more »

Yves Vannes
Member

If even the talk is false then a true solution is out of reach, at least through normal channels…

AVE CAESAR

No bitterness: our ancestors did it.
They were only ignorant and hopeful, they wanted freedom but wealth too.
Their children will learn to hope for a Caesar.
Or rather–for we are not aquiline Romans but soft mixed colonists–
Some kindly Sicilian tyrant who’ll keep
Poverty and Carthage off until the Romans arrive,
We are easy to manage, a gregarious people,
Full of sentiment, clever at mechanics, and we love our luxuries.

by Robinson Jeffers

Desdichado
Member

Actually, the South Asian, i.e. Filipino and Indian immigration is rapidly starting to become nearly as salient as the Latin American question, it seems to me. The “powers that be” saw how effective Hispanic immigration was in destroying the American blue collar worker, and thought that El Cheapo medical, accounting, IT, engineering, dental, etc. degrees from New Delhi’s College Degrees R Us could do the same to American white collar workers.

the Russians
Member

Educated and competent are the same thing 😉

Jerry Corn
Guest
Jerry Corn

You live in a bubble.

Most people want open borders because it dilutes the white male patriarchy (the great evil of our time) and leads to a better society.

Look at the reaction to Steve King. Nobody wants white racists running things.

Sleepy
Member
Sleepy

“Dear fellow white people…”

DLS
Guest
DLS

If the white male patriarchy (which built the most successful country in history) is the problem, why aren’t American women and minorities migrating to Mexico, rather than doing everything possible to get closer to the white men.

Carl B.
Guest
Carl B.

But Black and Brown racists are just fine. Blow it out your globohomo ass.

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

Black and Brown imports won’t cut the mustered wrt maintaining and building a highly technological civilization. It is only a matter of time until the critical fraction is breached and the number of highly skilled individuals falls below the level of numbers needed. Brazil, here we come.

PawPaw
Guest
PawPaw

Guys, “Jerry Corn” is the idiot Tiny Duck. Push the “ignore” button.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

So typical! Now you want to oppress an innocent NPC?
You must be a white male.

Major Hoople
Member
Major Hoople

There’s an ignore button?

A.B. Prosper
Guest
A.B. Prosper

T.D. those guys represent the Chamber of Commerce and the Left not the actual people. NPC’s all of them. Anyway people stupid enough to start a multi-ethnic empire quickly become terrified of the unrest that the natural and healthy tribalism ensures If you rise that tiger, its damned hard to get off. Do to domestication under feudalism and recent prosperity Northern and Western Whites tend to be less tribal than some other groups but this is changing fast/ Heck the Chamber of Commerce Republicans are demonstrating tribal loyalty to the Capitalist Left they serve and class loyalty against the lower… Read more »

TomA
Guest
TomA

Here, as in Europe, immigration is about kicking the can down the road. Politicians borrow money to bribe voters, run up vast debts, and don’t want to be held accountable when the butcher’s bill comes due. In theory, illegal immigrants will work their ass off and delay the onset of the inevitable financial collapse that will accompany the boomer retirement era (1.7 earners for every retiree). The modus operandi for a political career is go to DC, get rich selling influence, and then get out of Dodge before the SHTF. Illegal immigration is not about either nationalism or morality, it’s… Read more »

Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman
Guest
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman

Quite true, except that when TSHTF, it will be worldwide. We are going to find ourselves in a situation with no precedent whatsoever, to wit, the entire world will have a monetary crisis at the same time. Not, as in earlier monetary crises, where one part or several parts of the world have a monetary crisis while the rest of the world does not. This time–for the first time *ever*–it will be the whole world at once. Everything will change. And that’s not even to mention the current Grand Solar Minimum and the global cooling that is already underway.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Mysteerious, I see what you are getting at and it is a good way to bet, but trashing the Dollar seems like a bad move when most of it is held by the elites. I sense more of a deflationary type of squeeze where everything slows down and there is nothing for anybody, unless you have a bunch socked away. The African model, though their local elites bail on their own currencies, which inflate to thin air, and instead cash out into the Dollar. If the Dollar is going into the hopper, what will the elites cash into to dodge… Read more »

Wolf Barney
Guest
Wolf Barney

The amazing thing about immigration from the third world is it was proven to be a disaster years before it was implemented on a mass scale post -1965. Didn’t anyone notice that American blacks didn’t exactly excel at First World living?

DeBeers Diamonds
Guest
DeBeers Diamonds

Black culture of the segregation era was more subdued than it is today, the black elite had to police their community lest whitey do it for them. Marriages were much more common, and divorce and illegitimacy less common. Blacks were the beneficiary of a restricted labor market during periods of high demand during the World Wars. Liberal naivete presumed that the income gap would keep closing. Deindustrialization, drugs, degeneracy.

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

When the limitations (segregation) on Blacks were lifted, the best and brightest got out of their Ghettos, leaving the worse behind and their communities collapsed. Our import of the less than best and brightest is producing such in any number of communities today (if you think about it).

Vegetius
Guest
Vegetius

One unspoken component of immigration is the Mormon Question.

Virtue-signaling and conversion activities aside, Mormon wealth and political power is directly threatened by increased attention to the immigration issue. Hence the reflexive opposition to commonsense no-brainers such as E-Verify. This is particularly true in areas such as eastern Washington and the Snake River valley in Idaho.

Like certain other Questions, when you turn over this particular rock, all sorts of little nasties scurry about in the sunlight.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

The Mormons are converting a ton of Latin American types (all those years of missions are paying off). Follow the money, which follows the conversions.

House of Pancakes
Guest

An exasperatingly large number of Americans –not just leftists– have been acculturated (by who?) into thinking America is not really a nation, but rather a gigantic cookie jar full of self-replenishing magical cookies. And that it’s their moral duty to pass the cookie jar around the entire planet so that every set of brown fingers on earth can have a chance to grub for a magic cookie. They think it’s immoral to preserve their heritage and people, and just plain mean to not give away all the cookies to anyone who wants them — which is /everyone/. The math here,… Read more »

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

The women have taken over the West, and they are nurturers, not defenders and providers. Provision is now the “magic cookie” and it is time to pass them all around, it seems. Along those lines, the task now, in the West, is to turn the men into soy-boys, nurturers. In the meantime, some wymyn want to be “fierce”. So choosing pronouns, cutting off body parts, and taking hormones is the thing. Most of us here are older, but this is a real and widespread thing among the younger. They see it as choosing from a menu. They are not planning… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Wow, Dutch, just wow. Fantastic.

Our poor, sweet dears, the sacred foundation of all that is holy.
After millions of years, finally a race of men come along to give them more freedom than they’ve ever known– and they just don’t know what to do with it.

“But there will always be guys around who’ll move my piano, right?”

Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman
Guest
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman

You’re right. It won’t be done peacefully, but it *will* be done.

Gravity Denier
Guest
Gravity Denier

Okay, I’ll try to start discussing it practically and intelligently. … cordoned off as a territory for say 100 million White European Christian (and ONLY Christian!) people to live in peace and quiet by themselves. You’ve just told me I have no place in your Whiteopia, since although I am white and Christian-friendly (and my wife is Christian enough to have gotten an advanced seminary degree) I do not label myself as such. Nor am I Jewish. So why should I give a toss about helping to create your white homeland on the steppes? And I assume you don’t figure… Read more »

Gravity Denier
Guest
Gravity Denier

Plenty of times in the country’s history, Americans have been strongly and even bitterly divided. Once it led to attempted secession and war. But never in the past was public opinion so utterly irrelevant to political policy. Suppose a Gallup poll were conducted tomorrow and revealed that every single respondent in the U.S.A. wanted an immediate end to all immigration and a permanent barrier at the southern border. (Obviously that is unrealistic, but we’re doing a thought experiment.) What would change? Very likely, nothing. Put that in your cup and stir it. The globo-crony-capitalist Establishment scarcely even pretends anymore to… Read more »

DLS
Guest
DLS

The British are going through the same thing. How long ago did the citizens vote for Brexit? And their still not out of the EU. Their leadership is trying every trick in the book to nullify their vote. With US immigration, the problem is even worse. In a democracy, we are supposed to replace our leaders if they don’t reflect our will. Instead, our leaders are trying to replace us.

Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman
Guest
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman

Replace our leaders with whom? They are ALL like that. And no, it can’t be reformed. And no, sensible and decent people are not going to run for office because there’s no point in it. Such people could never get elected anyway. Never. That’s how the system is now. ZMan has said it before: There are no *political* solutions to the problems wrought by popular democracy. And that’s just the way things are.

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

This boomer/TradCon default position (voting/send emails/put up candidates/reform the system) is what I see daily at purportedly alternative websites. There is just no fixing a system with foundations eaten away by SJWs and (((Americans))) for decades. There is no voting our way out of this. I’m hardly under any illusions that the alternative (gradual Brazilification and/or CWII) will be any great adventure or that many of us would emerge unscathed, but it’s barreling towards us regardless while people continue to duck their heads and prattle on about muh rule of law. I prefer to deal with reality, even if that… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

“In a democracy, we are supposed to replace our leaders if they don’t reflect our will. Instead, our leaders are trying to replace us.”

Great gods above, I love you people.

JR Ewing
Member

“We want out. We want to leave. We’re tired of those guys telling us what to do.”

“OK, you guys are racists but we’ll go ask them if we can leave.”

“Why are you even asking? They’ll just say no.”

“Because we can’t just LEAVE. We have to negotiate an exit. You racists don’t understand how this works.”

(Two years later)

“Bad news. They won’t let us out. I guess we are stuck. Now that we know we can’t get out, let’s have another election to you racists can change your minds.”

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Gravity Denier, your second and third paragraphs are very important for everyone to understand. The “system” is a fig leaf, nothing more.

Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman
Guest
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman

It is also a *fact* that *many* ordinary French people are *hungry.* That is never reported as one of the main sources of the fury gripping France right now. That’s one reason that there has not (yet) been a general strike in France.

But to your comment: Think Spain in the 1930s. That’s almost certainly our future.

Also, this might interest you:

https://www.biohistory.org/

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Mysteerious, I don’t know about Spain in the 1930s. Please make your point, thanks.

It sounds enticing. Spain was the introductory act to WWll.

JR Ewing
Member

Civil war. They became so polarized that they started killing each other in droves.

A.B. Prosper
Guest
A.B. Prosper

The spirit is there but it means embracing madness and war on an unfathomable scale. Its war to the knife, knife to the hilt until the other side is dead or utterly suppressed. It also means throwing away our liberal ideas for many decades and ruling by brutal force if needed. We aren’t there yet since our side doesn’t do dial a violence (riots today, explosions tomorrow, war after that) but only all out war, we are trying to avoid it Also we don’t have an ideology to fight for The Dissident Right is still reeling from the fact that… Read more »

thekrustykurmudgeon
Guest

Z – I don’t get why the democrats are into all this. They didn’t need all these immigrants to build a majority. Look at how many state legislative, congressional, gubernatorial and other downballot positions the dems held in the 70s. It was a lot more than it is now.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

krusty, the Dems want people they can boss around, not people they need to convince. They are all about the stick, not the carrot.

Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman
Guest
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman

They have no intention of looking a gift horse in the mouth. Also, the globalists are using the many willing useful idiots to remove the source of the only potential for *effective* resistance to their brave new globalized world–white people. That’s why this phenomenon is worldwide. Partially it has to do with social mood, which is going to change before too much longer, and partially it has to do with the globalists having seized the opportunity to make hay while the sun shines. There will be bloodshed, and it will be terrible, but the tide is turning. Look around the… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

That’s a very good observation.

Nitzakhon, above: “Throughout history, one side has invited in foreigners to help them deal with their opposition.”

In Persia and Byzantium, the tax farmers brought in cheap labor: Arab vassal mercenaries. The civilized world got the Islamic Conquest and the Nestorian revolt (predecessor to Calvin’s Protestant Wars.)

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Sorry, I meant to include the selfish kapitalist (slave)traders of the time as well- can’t let our own off the hook.

A.B. Prosper
Guest
A.B. Prosper

Back then the Democrats were the party of working people . These days they are the party of nuts with the leadership being as much corporate property as any chamber of commerce Republican

They have to cheat

thekrustykurmudgeon
Guest

it seems like if democrats ran Joe Manchin types when/where necessary – they would win everything. Maybe the toothpaste can’t be put back in the tube – but if you at least listen to the WWC – all roadblocks will go away.

Matrix
Guest
Matrix

I just had several Jerry Corns removed, feeeeels so good!

Guzalot
Guest
Guzalot

I think a 25 year freeze on immigration would be a good thing. That would allow the current generation of new immigrants to assimilate as much as they are willing/able to do.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

The many Rotherhams in Britain were done by legal immigrants. Ones who’ve had their 25 years to “assimilate”.

Guzalot
Guest
Guzalot

I don’t think Muslims should be allowed to immigrate to the US at all. We’re stuck with the legal Muslim immigrants we have but we can close the door to any more. Islam and Sharia is just not compatible with western democracy.

A.B. Prosper
Guest
A.B. Prosper

After 50 million or so repatriations with a permanent limit of a few thousand and those prioritizing White/Right sure.

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

Assimilation is as much of a thoughtless common myth as ‘nation of immigrants.’ The vast majority of immigrants, even if they wear jeans, eat pizza, and learn some variety of English, cannot and do not change their DNA or inherited native culture. Instead they gradually change their host and amalgamate with it or conquer it or annihilate it. That’s what the Ellis Island immigrants and their descendants did. Who do you think rewrote American history? Who voted for FDR FOUR times in a row? Assimilation is a canard, and – regarding other races – another, slower, gentler version of White… Read more »

Delmar Jackson
Guest
Delmar Jackson

When too many come here from there, soon here becomes there. The problem is no one from here wants to live there, except those from there.
Even Heaven has a border and an angel at the gate.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

A possible break to reverse our moral definition of the just and the damned, from Heartiste:

“Mockery Or War, No Other Choice:
Leftoids are an emotive species, and react to challenges to their authority on a continuum from hysteria to genocidal bloodlust.”

Libs love the catfight in comfort.
Perhaps this is how we turn the national crowd?

Greg
Guest
Greg

Uh, oh, ZMan. You’re enemy of the people post just hit Zero Hedge (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-15/enemy-people). Would expect the left wing long knives and the deplatforming overlords to be out for you in force now.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

From twitter (Steve Sailer):

” is there some point at which we don’t need more immigration”?

“Yes. They haven’t quite turned AZ, TX, FL, GA, reliably blue yet. Another 12 to 15 million should do the trick.”

“The Superpower of the World needs immigrants….”

Michael Martin
Member

I have been following this discussion thread, and a whole herd of “elephants in the living room” have been spoken of here. That is, topics which absolutely, positively all Americans know, and which absolutely, positively all Americans lie to God’s face about “for fear of the Jews.” There is, however, the largest “elephant” of them all, which everyone else seems reluctant to directly address. That is the fact that white, Anglo women hate their men and refuse to bear their children. To me, that is the “topic of all topics.” You can be as “race realist” as you want, you… Read more »

Member

“Imagine a public debate over building a bridge across a local river. The salient facts would be the cost, where to put it and who benefits from the bridge. Instead, one side talks endlessly about the morality of building bridges. It’s who they are. By extension, those who oppose bridge building in the abstract are immoral in some way. The other side, in contrast, spends its time trying prove they are not oppose to bridge building, but simply have questions about where to put this bridge and how much to spend on it.” The paragraph is contradictory. The “other side”… Read more »

Member

I have NO obligation to the feral spawn of slaves.