Spooky Stuff

One of the things that make dystopian science fiction fun for the audience is the understanding that it will never happen. It could happen, but only a long time in the future, when everyone seeing the warning is dead. Worst case, the “boot stomping the face” stuff happens when you’re ready to kick the bucket, so you’ll live to see it, but never really have to experience it. This adds a camp fire quality to it, allowing the creator to lay it on a bit thick to make his points. Horror movies often work the same way.

The same is true about doom and gloom in public commentary. The market predictor guy on TV, who thinks the market is about to tank, is not getting much traction if he claims a mild downturn is coming. If he warns that fire will rain down from the sky and Lucifer will rise from his pit somewhere on Wall Street, then people pay attention. The people consuming such content do so with an understanding that it’s not really going to be that bad, but it is kind of fun pretending it will be as you stock up on MRE’s.

You see this with the bogeyman of AI and his posse called automation. Any day now, so the story goes, the algorithms will come alive, enslave the population and replace every job with a robot. What usually follows, depending upon your inclination, is either the libertarian fantasy of a world where everyone smokes weed and plays hacky-sack or the dystopian sci-fi vision of a world like The Matrix or The Terminator. Most people assume it will not happen, but it is fun to pretend it will happen.

Of course, the one thing that rarely gets mentioned is that the future is never the nightmare people imagine. We know this because we are currently living in the nightmarish future imagined in the past. Orwell’s 1984 was nothing like our 1984. In fact, our 1984 was a lot better than Orwell’s 1948. London was still in rubble at the point. Food was still limited and general living standards were poor. Relative to life in 1984 London, life in 1948 was about as bad as Orwell imagined forty years or so on the future.

Probably the most relevant test case we have for this is 20th century Marxism. China and Russia underwent massive social experiments attempting to usher in the Marxist future of a worker’s paradise. At times, life was pretty awful for people in both countries. The purges of Stalin and the Cultural Revolution of Mao were dystopian nightmares for many of the people at the time. Yet, most buggered their way through. Their present was not our future. Instead, our future and theirs was our present, which is not so bad.

Still, the example of China and Russia show that even though things tend to work out for humanity in the long run, the short run can be quite terrible. It means were probably better off worrying about what’s right in front of us, rather than what lies far down the road. A good example is what is coming from behavioral science and genetics. The former is about establishing statistical patterns of human behavior in order to model it. The latter is about finding genes to explain the features of life, including human life.

On the behavioral side, China’s social credit system is a great example of the spooky future stuff happening in the present. The same tools China is using are now being applied to social media and public discourse in the West. The British cop sent out to investigate an offensive tweet is applying the same techniques China is using when they throttle internet access of dissidents. It’s a combination of shame and reduced access, intended to alter the behavior of people viewed as disruptive.

The Twitter cops are not just people sitting around reading tweets. The social media giants are using techniques from behavioral science to narrow the focus to those most likely to be a problem. China’s social credit system works the same way. It’s not predicative in the narrow sense, but more of a profile. When the cumulative score of someone’s activity reaches a certain point, they gets closer examination. The social media giants use this same approach to throttle users with the so-called shadow ban.

On the genetics side of the dystopian present, this will become increasingly common as the science gets better and cheaper. Future parents will soon have a chance to increase their child’s cognitive score, so to speak, rather than leave it to chance. What parent would not want their child to be smart or tall or handsome? If science can increase the odds of that happening, people will embrace it. Think of it this way. If science could tell you which fertilized egg was most likely to be the best, which would you choose?

Of course, Stephen Hsu cannot guarantee your child will be a genius. In fact, he can’t guarantee anything as no such guarantee is enforceable. His clients will not know if his technique worked until their child is well along in development and no one is going to enforce a return policy for children. That said, it is not about guarantees. It is about probabilities. What these techniques offer is better odds of getting the best genetic mix from the parents. It’s like moving closer to the target at the shooting range.

If that’s not enough, genetic research is slowing moving toward a time when minor corrections after the fact are possible. It’s unlikely, highly unlikely, that science will ever be able to rewrite the code of a living human, but they are starting to tinker. These techniques will no doubt be applied to artificial insemination, in combination with what Stephen Hsu is offering. Pick the best embryo, make a few tweak and the odds of your child being a combination of the best his parents contributed goes way up.

None of this is part of some dystopian future. It is spooky stuff happening right now. The most worrisome is probably the stuff coming from behavior science, as it allows for that dystopian future, where the authorities act as puppet masters. The genetics stuff is less spooky and less worrisome for now. Still, the point is we have plenty of monsters walking around in the present. If we want to be worried or have a reason to put away some more MRE’s, you just have to spend time on Twitter or talk to Stephen Hsu.

86 thoughts on “Spooky Stuff

  1. I was fortunate with my children, they seem to be the best of my wife and I. More her, of course, with the mitochondria and my smaller Y to the boy.
    The need for varieties of traits to face unexpected selective pressures makes me think leaving evolution alone is preferable.
    I am quite old fashioned and won’t have too long to put with the next superrace.

  2. Orwell (1984), Huxley (Brave New World), and Bradbury (Fahrenheit 451) were all very good at seeing into the future. But maybe the most prescient of all was Jean Raspail (Camp of the Saints) who saw a West simply getting overwhelmed with a massive flood of Third World Brown People.

  3. A Brave New World gets less attention but is much closer to reality than 1984. We are not quite to the Road Warrior stage yet but we also aren’t as far off as many might want to believe. What concerns me is how fragile the system really is and how incompetent and flat out stupid so many “leaders” we depend on are. A threat of snow can strip grocery stores bare in hours, imagine a more significant event leaving stores empty for a week. Does anyone think that we have more than a handful of people in D.C. or even your state capitol that are intellectually vigorous enough to deal with a real calamity?

    • A Brave New World gets less attention but is much closer to reality than 1984.

      Just so. No need for jackboots stomping on human faces, when you can have the proles pacify themselves.

  4. Complex systems don’t take to tweaking very well. There are lots of outcomes to genetic modification we haven’t nor will be able to consider because of the number of interactions.

    This will not end well for those involved.

    • The people doing those don’t care, Techies as a broad category don’t care about downstream consequences of the tech they produce.

      This is why nerds have to be kept very low status and without power and as a social science nerd, I applaud those who do this.

      I love my fellow smart people but far too many of us have no ethics or common sense and as such are nothing but trouble.

  5. As I’ve said before about A.I. , you don’t need true A.I. to end society. You just need enough automation. We have that now and nearly 50 years of below replacement fertility to prove it

    Bringing in foreigners to serve as labor and consumers can only go on so long, they either cannot sustain the society or end up with the same problem

    Hispanic, all categories fertility is 1.8 with Puerto Rico weighing in at 1.3

    Cities +not enough ,money ends modernity. Its just a slow moving apocalypse

    Thank goodness for that and idiocracy too. Outside of some medicine and sanitation nearly every piece of technology we’ve built in the last 3/4 century is on the road to an existential threat to human existence and does almost nothing to improve well being or happiness of humans or our life span really .

    That said if it becomes possible to modify people after the fact, you will be modified with or without your consent probably with gene driven mosquitoes . This is a way off but our leaders have no connection to their people and nasty habit of thinking they know better

    Future people may well find it useful to burn techies and many scientists at the stake to Pour encourager les autres as the saying goes . I suspect Ted K was right and Pol Pot had a point

    • Fair point. Spandrell made a point on his blog bloodyshovel.wordpress.com a few years back that with the advances in automation and globalisation, societal stability needs to range between the poles of autarky and or butlerian jihad. What I worry about is the steady insidious advance of woke capital into every aspect of communication and commerce. That black Proud Boys chapter head who had his personnal account banned by Chase is a prime example. The nightmare is a hyper pozzed version of China’s social credit model. Say what you will about a traditional Authoritarian but you know where you stand with a Czar or a Franco

      • The Right could do to be more like Franco or Pinochet or hell Norsefire from V

        Vox Day is fond of noting he isn’t in favor of free speech. Its largely because its intrinsically harmful to good order (more or less paraphrased) and given no one else supports it, why should he.?

        This is a very good point. Given we are going to have blasphemy and obscenity laws no matter what , wither by woke capital or the State might as well be our side that sets them.

        Libertarianism is just allowing the Leftist cuckoos into the proverbial nest by the side door and if you want an orderly healthy society, you have to set appropriate rules by force.

        The easy way to do this is to bring back En Loco Parentis and that any organization that accepts under 21’s or gets money from one that does is obligated to all students and may not teach anything that is Leftist period . Do so? get a nickle and a life ban from teaching

        That’s a start. Using the mechanism of the State to make sure things work right is something the Right just can’t get. Yes government staffed with people given righteous orders can get a lot of good things done and its incumbent on people in charge to make that happen.

        The Interstate Highway, Moon Shot. Civilian Conservation Core, Social Security, and a hell of a lot more worked fine.

        Keeping corruption in check isn’t easy but if the leaders aren’t crooks the people can be handled. As above so below

        JMO but the Dissident Right also needs to kick the Libertarians and the Militia Right to the curb

        They mostly don’t mean to be but they are unwitting tools of the Left

        An actual Right Wing government uses authority for Righteous Purposes . The Left with its focus on the greater good is ironically more Right wing that some on our side.

        Problem there is what they think is the Greater Good isn’t and they are utopians too boot

        So long as you avoid those traps and learn to understand human nature and social limits, you can get an amazing amount done.

  6. IMHO , as genetic science begins to better understand human make-up, the more they will uncover the complexity and “non-linearity” of the human genome.
    That is, if they tweak gene “A” to produce a certain desirable trait, genes “Q and R” will respond to “A’s” change – as will other genes in a cascading sequence – and cause some undesirable or unexpected trait to manifest itself.

    Look at the effort and cost to bring a legit. drug to market; 9 of 10 new drugs fail in clinical testing, yet no drug gets to the clinical testing phase unless it looks promising.
    What happens?
    The biochemistry of humans is so complex that “bad” stuff happens that is just unpredictable or just did not happen in the lab, in rats, or in very small scale study using healthy volunteers (who the hell would volunteer to be a guinea pig to test a new drug?? Maybe AOC and Pelosi and Shiff can be convinced to give it a go).

    And how does a genius come about? An Euler, Newton, Einstein, Feynman, etc?Their parents were not geniuses and neither were their siblings and most likely their ancestors were not either.
    Yet, if their parents were both, say, tall or had blue eyes, then their offspring have a high probability of inheriting those particular traits.

    So why are some traits inheritable and others not? Some traits just seem to pop up out of nowhere. Did something happen that turned on or off a gene(s) that then produced a specific trait?

    No doubt science will make great progress in figuring out how humans work, but like trying to figure out how the universe came about (sorry, I don’t buy the Big Bang Theory, even if the math does work out), they may just have to settle for not really figuring it all out.

    It will just be to complex.

  7. The AI thing is a bunch of geeks trying to usher in there ‘resistance’ fantasy as you alluded to re: Terminator. It ain’t happening for a LONG time for a variety of reasons. Power and Energy concerns chiefly among them, but there are more.

    What you SHOULD be worried about is the here & now creeping surveillance state which is nearly complete at this point. We are living in an open air prison and most people are either too oblivious / stupid or simply do not care. Hot off the heels of this topic here are two more ‘bricks in the wall’ from the news today:



    Your DNA is being hoovered up (pun intended) by the FBI at an alarming rate from multiple sources. Google and Amazon and to a lesser extent the other FAANG tech oligarchs are putting down huge digital infrastructure to watch you 24x7x365 WITHOUT your express consent and permission. Telescreens from 1984? We should be so lucky, what we have is far far worse than that.

  8. If the coup d’état against President Trump by the Deep State/Media FBI/CIA/NSC/US Congress(without consequence for the various criminal actors) is not “dystopia,” I don’t know what is. It was an Air Raid alarm signal of the death of the American Republic.

    And 99% of the Deep State criminals are Upper-Class WASPs and (((You-know-who))) . This is more than “spooky.” This is a three alarm fire. The Totalitarian Dystopian Nightmare, led by “elite” WHITE people, is just around the corner.

    After Trump – the Deluge.

    • I have to say, I never thought much about the “Deep State” before Trump. I heard people talk about it but figured that they were the tinfoil hat crowd. Was I ever wrong.

      Since Trump, I’ve seen the power and collusion of Deep State, Big Tech and the wealthy Elite. They are an organized force, and they are playing for keeps. What’s more, they were caught off guard by Trump and have been working hard to not let that happen again.

      If we were woken up to them, they were woken up to us.

  9. The Russians and Chinese were put through their dystopia by other (largely in the case of Russia) other Russians and Chinese.

    We are facing something very different : attack and replacement across a genetic boundary. Not sure if this has ever actually happened before, at least on a civilizational level.

    This site has been under attack for a couple if weeks. Various ISPs are blocking it. And the walling off is being ratcheted up. Until a few days ago I could still use the IP address. No longer works. Some gateways run by comcast no longer even ping the address.

    A proxy still works and a few other tricks but for how long? I assume this is a trial. Carve off a bit here and there, shadow ban, slow down bit rates, narrow the gateway, etc…

    Cut all traffic to wrong think sites slowly until they can be unplugged without too much bellyaching.

    • Attack and replacement across a genetic boundary. The Romans tried that late in their story (Goths). How’d that work out?

      I’ve noticed this site being blocked into non-existence a lot lately, too.

  10. If you want spooky stuff happening right now, look no further than birth statistics. They are the future, and they are dystopic.

    United States: Less than 50% white
    France: 20% Muslim, 10% African (at least)
    England: 25% non-white, 10% Muslim

    • England is much more whiter than the U.S but are much further along the road to perdition than America. The Rat voting base is the close to 100% white states of N.E, Oregon and Washington. AOC has a white male BF. The dissident right’s race fixation will be its undoing

      • Uh no. Whites, especially white males, vote solidly Republican. Non-whites vote overwhelmingly Democrat, to the point of near unanimity among blacks. Everyone knows that the future of electoral math in America is 100% predicated on non-whites swamping white voters. Sure many whites still vote Democrat for nostalgia or because they are a sexual deviant or want to murder their offspring in the womb. The establishment Right’s willful disregard for racial politics will be its undoing and our nation along with it.

        • True. It’s the GOP that I save my hatred for. The Left was doing what you’d expect them to do. It’s the “conservatives” that I want under my knife.

      • Yeah, other races are completely color-blind and never think about race.

        In multi-racial societies, race becomes your uniform. It’s not a fixation, just recognizing the enemy. The fact that many whites believe the propaganda or want to pretend that it’s still 1980 doesn’t change this reality.

      • I’d say the US is further down the road than England: most social metrics are worse in the land of the free. Critical race theory, micro-aggressions, PC , Affirmative Action are all of American origin.

        Still,comparing the US to the UK is comparing two leprotic geriatrics.

    • Don’t know where you dredged up those figures but I can tell you that Britain is still around 85% white or more. Our problem is the same as yours; which is to say that the white shitlibs are running the show.

    • So, births in England are 75% white! Black and Muslim numbers in France will overlap somewhat as well.

      The US….

  11. Z: “On the behavioral side, China’s social credit system is a great example of the spooky future stuff happening in the present. The same tools China is using are now being applied to social media and public discourse in the West.”

    Yes. And to branch from your point. The tools of calculating social credit, as everyone knows, don’t even require hi-tech. I was watching Colbert and his guest was the astronaut Scott Kelly, who’d famously spent almost a year in space.

    Near the start of the interview Colbert asked him, “Given the state of the Earth, do you ever wish you were still up there?” Kelly’s immediate response, an emphatic, “Everyday”. (applause). Social credit checked…social credit approved. Now, and only now, can we proceed with the interview in a friendly manner.

    We know that the newly ubiquitous statements like, ‘given the state of the world”, or even “in these times”, is prog speak for, “considering that the dirt people have their dirt leader in power….how do you feel about such ‘n such?” And you’d better answer correctly.

    Colbert surely had this question ready, and would deliver it cloaked in spontaneous jocularity. The thinking being, “Kelly’s an American hero, ex-Navy, and looks like a military Rightwinger. We need to establish (Kelly needs to prove) right off the bat that he’s not only not a Rightwinger, but against them.”

    Showing the American people that even our Conservative looking manly heroes of today are solidly Prog now.

    Smart Progs NEVER miss an opportunity.

  12. Calizuela, Detroit, St. Louis, Newark, the Rust Belt, Phoenix, etc., etc. Yeah, I’ve seen Dystopia – and it is real. I ordered 10 more 30 round mags today.

    • After 30 long years spent in one of our esteemed armed forces, I chuckle a little at “lock and load” guys who are betting on a personal armory to get them through the coming racial reversal. Once the sword of the state is held securely in non-white hands, and the all-seeing eye and cached data of US intelligence agencies belongs to the formerly oppressed, it really won’t take long for them to track down those of us who have expressed “bad thoughts” over the past few years, or have not public uttered RightSpeech – they’ll probably need help from smart YTs, but they’ll find plenty of those willing to cooperate when needed. And it’s not Barney Fife they’ll be sending out to take you into custody “for your own safety”:


      Once the browning of America is complete (and there is no stopping it, unfortunately), the worse thing may be to survive the initial retributive cleansing only to be later selected for a lengthy re-education.


      Beyond a certain point (personal defense up until the ethnic change of command) money spent on firearms and ammo is wasted, if what you are eventually going up against is the most sophisticated killing technology the earth has ever known, in the hands of the resentful.

        • Nice retort, but I’m pretty sure you guys aren’t living in a cave or a tropical jungle. I’m guessing you have a numbered street address, a trackable mobile phone and a very thorough paper and digital footprint that won’t be so easy to shake – plus eventually you’ll need to get those prescriptions refilled. And besides, maybe “winning” isn’t the point of being in Afghanistan – not that I’m for it, but there are arguable rationalizations for having a de facto permanent imperial outpost there. If the Chinese communists (and many other contemporary examples) are any indication, it’s one’s own countrymen who make the most ruthless of enemies. And unless you’ve been making your weapon purchases under the radar, one of the first priorities of our brown overlords will be to relieve you of those dangerous devices, for your safety. And before you tell me how you’re going to put up a valiant resistance, google “branch davidian compound Waco” and take a look at some of the “after” photos.

          Derbyshire has it right: “We Are Doomed.” It’s depressing, but at least it’s real.

          I’ll save you some time (note the flag):

  13. People always want to try to figure out what is “going to happen”. Red light or green light. Instead, it is generally a set of probable outcomes, sometimes narrowly differentiated, and sometimes widely so. The probability set constantly changes over time. Once you look at the world as an array of outcomes rather than simply “this” or “that”, the world you see is a different one.

    That said, I don’t recall a world with such a broad array of potential resolutions over time as the one we are living in today. I believe the wide array of potential outcomes is what has so many people so shook up. Not the “what will happen”, but “what might happen”, is a broad and meaningful variety of quite bizarre and painful resolutions. People can’t quite put their finger on it, because they live in a world of “this or that” expected outcomes, but they are perplexed, underneath it all, like they never have been before.

  14. Behavioral science is a benign, neutral term that doesn’t fully express the current threat. Much like it was just “nuclear science” taking place at Los Alamos in the 1940s, the weaponization potential is the elephant in the room. The tools of behavioral science are now being used in this Brave New World to proactively make systemic changes to the dominate behaviors of target populations, and this is being hyper-accelerated by modern communication technology and it’s handmaiden, cell phone addiction. These changes tend to be insidious and opaque, but they are real and impactful nonetheless.

  15. On AI and automation, I suspect the holdup will always be the fear of lawsuits (we already have stories of robots crushing someone at an Amazon warehouse) and the human revulsion at the inevitable accidents. Like with self-driving cars, even if statistically there are fewer accidents with them, the ones that do happen tend to bother us more. If a human falls asleep at the wheel or is drunk, those are things we can understand, even if we disapprove. When a computer-controlled car just barrels over someone crossing a street, it feels more like an alien invader coldly wiping out a human life. The higher expectation for computers and robots (that they can’t fall asleep, be distracted, have a stroke) will lead people to want to blame companies for negligence when they do fail.

  16. The social credit angle is the one that disheartens me the most. I am no libertarian; but I do want just enough power (money/connections/juice) to be left alone to pursue my idiosyncrasies, like one of those desert-dwelling hermits on the fringes of the declining Roman empire. I do not want the power of an oligarch. But I can envision an approaching society which actively applies punative sanctions for refusing to use social media to parrot the approved Progressive religion. Just as refusing to burn a pinch of incense to the emperor could lead to martyrdom, failure to display the proper enthusiasm for diversity, transexuality or any number of other perversions of truth will lead to exclusion from the market for basic human necessities like food and medicine, let alone the glories of genetic enhancement. Indeed, a smarter or stronger child doesn’t necessarily become an evil abomination, but a child who’s behavior is molded by social credit from birth becomes a potted bonsai rather than a free-standing redwood. As I’ve written before, the script of our dystopia is not 1984 but Brave New World.

    • Yep, Progs control the choke points of society – tech and finance. They already have the infrastructure to un-person any of us, i.e. I’m not talking about the distant future. If you get on the Prog Shit-list, you could lose your access to credit cards, banking, loans, barred from all social media (not a big deal for most of us), etc. You might be banned from many stores. What if airlines won’t sell you a ticket, car companies a car?

      Normally, you’d think the government would have an issue with that, but I suspect that a Harris Administration would be just fine with it.

      American whites need to build an alternative infrastructure, or we’ll be slave – and not in the distant future.

      • Citizen, right on the money. Seems we have a model for such a dystopian scenario today with Social Media removing badthink folks from their systems while the government remains silent. However, I’m not so sure we can build an “alternative” network for badthinkers. Infrastructure involved is more than social media software packages, it’s the communications links as well. I seem to remember that at the top levels here, ISP’s, domain name servers, and such, banning folk has already happened with little reaction from the government.

        • I agree that the task is almost impossibly hard, maybe even impossible. But that doesn’t change the fact that if we don’t, we could become helots.

          It’s our only peaceful way to freedom.

          That’s what TPTB doesn’t seem to get. Yes, they control the choke points, allowing a very small number of people to control society. But that’s also their Achilles’ Heel. Their power only exists so long as the whites remain non-violent. A few targeted attacks against tech executives, and they’re in trouble. I’m not advocating that; I’m simply saying that their power is more fragile than they think when faced with a people willing to commit violence.

          For example, Muslims in Europe don’t control any choke points, but you don’t see pictures of Muhammad in magazines any more, do you. My guess is that tech executives also aren’t chomping at the bit to ban Muslims who show Muslim pride or advocate a society where women are not the equal of men because they know that there could be violent consequences against them personally.

        • The current crop of Social Media is dying and Right Wing friendly options are on the way.

          I expect to see a properly running Social Galactic “Right Wing Twitter” up and running in a few months

          The future will be censored of course but you’ll go to the place where you are wanted and welcome , a loose example, Twitter if it makes it for the Left , Gab for ass-hats and full free speech and Social Galactic for Right

          As for ISP’s and such, I’ll note that the main target of these are still around. Its also possible and likely than the Right will have to make its own stuff even ISP’s This is quite possible and will tend to take care of most of the problems

          Anyway in the end the Right needs to stop money cucking. Boycotting people who have too different views than you shouldn’t be “an option in extremis” but instead default at all times. Worrying about a smaller economy is irrelevant because everything is downhill from culture

          I don’t agree with the Left but I can completely see why they don’t want their money used for things they don’t like, Until it can be settled who gets to run the show, Neo Libs/NeoCons as current Leftists or Rightists the best thing we can do is develop parallel economies , buy only from friends and friendlies as much as possible

          Deplatform them for they will surely deplatform you

          And yes I am aware that kept up to long will give the US an economy on par with Chad, oh well.

          The current NL/NC alliance is falling into Lords of Misrule territory and thuis means wither the Left or the Right will end up running the show.

          Well that or anarchy which will pleases the militia crowd or dissolution but those are other stories.

          • You should search for articles on Facebook losing the younger audience and replacement of twitter with Instagram

            I remember My Space and yes even Friendster and they went away. Big Social will join them

            As far as alternatives, Infogalactic , a fork of Wikipedia is up and runs very well and Socialgalactic was up a few days ago

            There were a few a issues with the companies software and speech policy. The later isn’t what you think. Socialgalactic is meant to be heavily modded for Conservatives and the company whose software was used, were free speech absolutists

            I expect Arkhaven will also be making movies and other media as well.

            It won’t have the reach of the big media but it will be there

            Hell you can still visit the Daily Stormer after the deplatforming fiasco

            So yeah we the “dissident right” still face threats and will have to keep working on our own channels but its something we can and should do.

            The long term goal should be a parallel economy where you can get anything from a business that at least tacitly is on our side. we’ve got Hobby Lobby and Chik Fil A and apparently In and Out for those in California , Black Rifle Coffee certainly isn’t an enemy but we don’t have a comprehensive list of choices.

            That we could do.


  17. It seams to me that one of the reasons that the Soviet and Communist Chinese (Maybe Nor Ko today) systems were relatively stable is that they did provide a better, improved life for a majority of their subjects, at least for a while. They certainly sucked from our POV, Will material deprivation and tyranny from government. But the preceding structure of Imperial Russia and China sucked even worse for the peasantry.

    • This is a point I make about Venezuela. Maduro and Chavez are bad guys according to our rulers, because they offend the economy, peace be upon it. The trouble is, life for the average Venezuelan got much better under Chavez. The nation’s GDP soared and the average standard of living improved. Our rulers carry on like Venezuela was a paradise before Chavez. That’s not to say Maduro is a great guy, but the main reason Venezuela is a mess right now is the orchestrated financial war waged upon it by America.

      In the case of China and Russia, the commies were a step up for most people. despite their ruthless tactics, the commies did organize the defense of the motherland against the Nazis. That counts for a lot to people who have some sense of themselves.

      • Zman, so much to take on here. You look at only one side of the coin, there is another side (as there always is). But to be brief, let’s take WWII and the Russians. In short, a very good case can be made that Stalin brought on the war in Russia.

        He purged the best of his officer core in his paranoia before the war—10’s of thousands gone. He then added at each level a corresponding political officer to watch and oversee those remaining. He signed a non-aggression pact with Hitler, starting WWII and invaded Poland along side Germany and annexed his ”share”. Stalin then started a war of aggression to retake Finland, and did so poorly that Hitler wrote Russia off as a force to contend with in future conflict.

        When Hitler invaded Russia, Stalin was not to be seen rallying the troops/people. He hid out in Moscow in a state of depression. It was later when Russia lost millions of troops that he emerged and issued no retreat/surrender orders and created political battalions to shoot all deserters and shirkers on the front lines.

        I find it hard to award merit to a political system for “fixing” a problem that they could have avoided in the first place. If anything, “General Winter” (and General Hitler) won the war for Russia. Not to disparage the Russian people at the lower level of the conflict. They—as do our soldiers in the sand box—fought for an ideal, their country.

        • I don’t remember exactly where it was I read this – but I remember reading something recently that made claims that Hitler launched his invasion of Russia – to pre-empt the Russian invasion of Western Europe. The claim was that one of the reasons why the Nazis did so well on their initial thrust eastward was because the Soviet military forces were caught off guard and in positions to attack westward.

          Wish I could remember where it was I read this. But it was laid out very plausibly. And I don’t think the true story of how WW2 went down has really been told to Western audiences. It’s all been Hollywoodized and sanitized as to the real reasons.

          Based on some of the stuff I’ve read from Pat Buchanan in the past – and seeing how the insane globohomo leftoids are trashing this country in the here and now -I”m left to wonder if maybe we didn’t come into WW2 on the wrong side.

          At the very least maybe we shouldn’t sent so much Lend Lease to the Soviets – and let them get trashed by the Germans as a strategic win for later. Of course this was likely never going to happen because of how penetrated the FDR administration was with commie agents and sympathizers.

      • The problem there is that without the commies in charge – there might not have needed to be a defense of the motherland in the first place.

        Pat Buchanan has made the point before that Hitler’s real war was against the globohomos of the day – which was the communist part of the Soviet Union.
        Of course it was the Germans who got Lenin back into Russia – and started off the whole commie revolution in the first place. So what comes around – goes around.

        Which is why I think the founders of this country were smart – when they said we should strive to stay out of foreign adventures. The distinct lack of benefit from the US’s Mideast adventurism SHOULD be serving to drive this point home to the electorate – and give them a reason to hang neocons from the nearest lamp pole – but unfortunately it has not.

    • The hive model works for bee colonies. Do you want to become a drone bee? Because the odds of you being selected as the Queen Bee are pretty small. Chavez, Maduro and his upper echelon cronies stole much of the nation’s treasury as their tribute for imposing benevolent socialism on it’s people. Fear not, the same thing is happening right here.

      • Government officials are always out to steal the wealth, to some extent or another. Private sector operators are, too, but are held back by the marketplace and the ability of their customers to shop elsewhere for a better deal.

        The genius of our system was to structurally neuter the ability of the government officials to scoop too much, through elections, and also to allow the “customers” (the citizens) to shop amongst the various states to get the better deal for themselves. The fault is not the system (ours is better than most, at least in theory), but in human nature. A person will scoop up what he can, given what is available to him to get away with. Which is why any “top-down” system like socialism has no chance to serve the people in the long run, whatsoever. In the short run, it can either offer possibilities or actually help out a little. But when the ones in power understand how they can scoop up the wealth for themselves with both hands, it’s all over.

  18. An off-topic poast of interest:

    Amateur Xirl science


    The obvious unspoken trend here is that a lot of women desire the imposition of the Chinese social credit system to deter low-value men from existing in their “curated” Big Social space. The lesson here is to get off of Big Social, and if you must use it to never say anything negative about a woman.

    • This is what they refer to. It’s rather amusing


      We’ve got viral mobs that get agitated at a few drops of Boomer conservatism. It would advise many of our people to truly shut up and show humility. Crazy leftists with cultural power should be given a wide berth. So I unironically agree with them, starve feminists of attention.

  19. “His clients will not know if his technique worked until their child is well along in development and no one is going to enforce a return policy for children.”

    I hope you’re right, but the state of New York makes one wonder what the abortion laws will be like in thirty years.

    • Along in years would seem to be fairly short. We are using IQ tests and proxies at 11 years for intelligence measurement for example (assuming that aspect of embryo selection). What might take longer is sample size in order to reach acceptable significance. We’d need large numbers of folk doing such and most folk don’t need implantation to have children.

      • The U.S. is doing a bang-up job supporting poor brown women pumping out babies. These are our replacements, and we’re paying for them.

  20. Aw, you went all sciencey on me at the end! I was hoping this was going to be an End Times thread! The predictions of novelists like Orwell might not be coming true, but there are still a lot of creepy religious visionaries whose predictions are getting more convincing all the time. I just discovered one named Alois Irlmaier who predicted a fascinating WWIII scenario, including details like people using little rectangular boxes to talk to and view images (iPhones?).

  21. You know sometimes I think the Bible is actually a manual how to avoid systematic collapse of your culture put together after the Bronze Age collapse. Don’t let the women get in charge , don’t let the homos get power, keep the degeneracy in check, don’t let the children rule over you. Maybe there are some things that last forever but not cultures and civilizations. Im sure the Hittites would be surprised to found out they were completely forgotten for thousands of years except for a couple of references here and there.

    • Well, if your list is correct (and it is), Muslims, despite their copious flaws and low IQ, are looking good.

      I suspect that every once-successful civilization on the decline marvels at how they’ll eventually lose out to such obviously inferior people. Muslims and Africans, peoples who could barely organize a neighborhood BBQ, will overtake a people who harnessed the power of the atom.

      • Well, who was more advanced than the Romans? And they didn’t lose to an invasion by a super-advanced civilization, they were overrun by foreign yokels. I think this is the norm.

        • The Romans were fairly primitive, they coasted on Greek, Persian and Phoenician scholarship. Few people could name three Roman inventions without googling, and their contribution to math and science is parsimonious as well.

          Some dude on the internet argued that the Romans had all the tools to ignite a steam-powered industrial revolution, but their incuriousity and their dependency on slaves, saw them stuck with virtually unchanged technology for a thousand years.

          The West might fall, but not to a culture that can’t build a petrol engine, even when you give them the blueprints. The Mohammadans are only a threat in the sense that the globalists are wielding them against us. If civilized people stopped feeding them, they’d die all by themselves.

          • True, Muslims and Africans are only the tools being used by the globalists, but they will grow in number in Europe and, to a lessor extent, the United States.

            Either there will be mass violence, killings and forced expulsions larger than anything seen in WWII, or there will be tens of millions (if not 100 million) of Muslims and Africans in Europe in 50 years. (Their children in Europe already number tens of millions.) They won’t just quietly die off over winter.

          • Citizen, the fastest growing black group in the U.S. are blacks in MAINE, formerly at least 95% white. That rapidly growing contingent would be the “refugees” placed there via the globalist U.N. to replace white folk, i.e., Somalians who have 4 – 8 children per family. We in the U.S. do not have the equivalent of Germany’s AfD party (pro-national, anti-immigrant, also found in Italy, France, Sweden, Austria, Poland, Hungary, Czech, Slovakia). In the U.S., Trump just signed a spending bill this past Friday that essentially reinforces open borders and amnesty. The old white Christian U.S. is LOSING. In fact, the U.S. is the vanguard for the one-world, globalist, slave-labor, degenerate brown cesspool. Europe has a chance to reverse course. The U.S. — No.

          • The U.S. as formerly constituted? No. But the world changes. Civilizations and countries come and go. Will we vote our way out of this? No.

            But always remember, the other side is weak. Yes, they look incredibly powerful now, but their castle is built on sand. Blacks and Muslims are utterly useless, incapable of maintaining anything close to a civilization on their own. (Hell, they can’t even live in civilizations.) Mestizos are dullards. They can marginally maintain a civilization with the help of a white ruling class.

            Our opponents – Good Whites and Jews – are going to rely on blacks and browns more and more as Bad Whites abandon them. They are weak.

            The question isn’t whether we can win; it’s whether we want to win. Right now, it looks like we don’t. But whites have been on top for 500 years. We haven’t had to face a fight like this for a very long time. It’ll take a while for us to wake up, but we will. And when we do, it’ll be over.

          • That’s super-hero, comic-book thinking. It will lead to loss. We whites are getting our asses kicked. That’s all. And we all go back to contentedly munching on our chemically laden crap food.

          • True. My point is that there’s a path. Will we take it. Don’t know. But there is a way out.

            I’m not talking about some childish civil war fantasy. I’m saying that it takes some time for people who have been on top for damn near twenty generations to realize that they might need to put on the gloves again.

            Look, 15 years ago or so, I was your typical libertarian, colorblind cuckservative. Now look where I’m at. It’ll take some time for whites to wake up, but there’s no doubt that we are, albeit slowly.

            We won’t wake up in time to save what was the old country, but I also know that the people who will try to push us around are frankly not as good. It won’t take a lot of whites to push them back.

            Again, maybe we won’t. Maybe we go gentle into that good night. But I’m a pretty average guy. If I’ve woken up, you can be sure that there are others and more to come.

          • I know that the Romans had the pipe organ. It was used during amphitheatre entertainments, and was reputed to be so loud it could be heard miles away. As for advanced, I meant Rome was advanced in comparison with the other competing civilizations of its time. And it doesn’t matter if the Romans were themselves gifted in original innovations; like Americans, they were adept at taking what was good from other cultures and making good use of it.

            Now, I don’t know how they stacked up against the Chinese or Hindu civilizations around at that time. But those weren’t in direct competition with Rome, and certainly played no part in its downfall.

          • I know that the Romans had the pipe organ.

            Invented by the Greeks. By Archimedes himself, some say.

            And you’re right that the Romans were superior to their contemporaries on many accounts – they didn’t rule the known world for no reason – but my objection was only to the notion that the Romans were particularly advanced compared to their barbarian neighbours.

            They had better troops, better bureaucrats and better engineers, but their scientists sucked and their art was also rather underwhelming for the greatest civilisation in European history, where almost everybody was literate.

          • Romans also didn’t seem to go in much for philosophy. The Romans seemed to be an extraordinarily practical people. They enjoyed building things and organizing things, but didn’t think too much about it.

            I will say this for them. They were really good about incorporating other people’s inventions and maximizing them.

      • Yeah but the Muslims have a widespread problem with pedophilia and child rape so the degeneracy is not in check. Of course , they aren’t offering up their infant as human sacrifices so it’s hard to tell who’s worse . I think the whole thing is coming down and thousands of years in the future when they’re going through the archaeological record they’re going to find a billion cell phones and call it the Black Box collapse.

        • They do offer up the children of others though through terrorism and a “doesn’t count if they’re not Muslim” attitude.

    • Bible was right on wrt human behavior as early hunter gatherer man became urbanized settled man. Technology has obviously changed, but human behavior not so much.

      Years ago I was treated to a thought experiment. Suppose we were to go back in time to the ancient Greek agora of Socrates. Further, we convinced Socrates to accompany us into the future of the 21st century. He’d arrive in our time travel machine (let’s assume it looks like a telephone booth for fun) and step out into our “space-time travel” experimental lab. A modern looking building with lighting, a/c, plumbing and the like.

      Little would be recognizable to Socrates. He’d conclude we were gods—the descendants of Zeus. He could do little but admire the technology and ask what it’s purpose was. But a bit later when he calmed down and the discussion moved on to our modern society’s political organization; rulers, law, economic structure, the discussion would pick up and Socrates might very well contribute useful insights.

    • Good point. And the New Testament is a codification of Greek philosophy mixed with Hebrew mysticism. They seem to fit together quite well.

    • Not all, but some. Being successful and popular does not equate to grifter. Perhaps you’d like to produce an alternative list of non-grifters for discussion/comparison. Or at least define why you classify them as grifters.

      • Every one on that Top 10 is a merchant of some sort. Look at the return we’ve gotten out of them and honestly ask if it was worth it. DSA gets results, our e-celebs get lifestyle. Selling books, snake oil and camgirling for Patreon bucks does nothing to advance the Right. It separates foolish Boomercons and beta males from their money. And every person on that list has counter-signaled us. I respect the left for the fact that there are no “Chapo thots”.

        • You obvious don’t really follow these folk in any substantial way. You simply don’t agree with them. Or seem to feel they have let you down. Fine. But they are more influential than you or I will ever be. As I’ve stated before, they have reached more people with ideas we agree with (not all, some are IMO “grifters” and a pimple on our ass) than we ever will around the dinner table or at the local bar. They are useful as entry points to the movement.

          • I’m debating efficacy and morals. I don’t think we are well served claiming to defend the “white working class” while misleading people with poor impulse control into buying things. Our persuasive ability is strongest among our peer groups. Public support of right-wing ideas leads to social marginalization in many areas. And grifters prey on that.

          • White is right. There’s your efficacy. “Morality”, as you loosely swing it about, went out the window years (decades) ago, and such you don’t get to necessarily choose the soldiers that deployed in this fight of ours. Molyneux might be a crypto-libertarian in sheep’s clothing, Lauren Southern a crypto-THOT, Paul Watson a closeted gay dude (or has he come out? I don’t follow the guy), Cernovich should change his name to “Cernobitch”, etc. you can find fault with everyone on that list. 20, 30 years ago similar people were saying pretty much the same things, but relegated to the underground and dark recesses of the ‘net. Now they’re in the mainstream a lot.

            Does that last part bother you?

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