Since the first human settlements, people inside a human society have needed something to bind them together. They may have had common interests, like protection of a hunting ground or agricultural land, but economic interests are transitory. In order for people to sacrifice for one another or defend the society, they needed a shared belief, a common sense of reality that defined them versus outsiders. In addition to blood and soil, the commonly held set of rules held by a people is what defines them as a people.

One of the things that set the Athenians against the Spartans was the realization by the Athenians that the Spartans were enslaving Greeks. The Athenians always knew this in the abstract sense, but once they saw it up close after the earthquake of 464 BC, the reality of this difference between themselves and the Spartans was made plain. No matter how much they had in common, no matter their past cooperation, Athens did not enslave their fellow Greeks. It’s not who they were, to use a term familiar today.

Now, there were many other causes, more important causes, to the Peloponnese War, but this sense of a great difference between the two powers, in terms of their identity as people, made war easy. The American Civil War is another obvious example, where families and communities were divided over a moral question. The sense of identity, built around a common morality, can transcend blood relations. The phrase, “That is not who were are” is probably responsible for more violence than any other expression.

This is something the civic nationalists get right. The shared reality, along with a shared morality, is what defines a people, more so than blood and soil alone. When they talk about the American creed, they are not wrong that it is what defines the high concepts of American identity. Europeans think of Americans as relentless moralizers, because that’s the identity projected to them by politicians and the media. That’s because America is mostly defined by its sense of morality, rather than its history.

This is not just an American thing. France used to make a fetish of what it meant to be French, because there is a lot of diversity within France. The people in Brittany are different than the people of Provence. Therefore, it was necessary to impose this unifying French identity in order to hold the nation together. On the other hand, Swedes never developed a strong civic religion, because until their recent madness, it was obvious to everyone what it meant to be Swedish. The Finns are another good example.

The thing that American civic nationalists and credalists get wrong though is who decides these definitions. People like Ben Shapiro can never bring themselves to say who came up with the American Creed. His counterparts on the Left intimate that America as an idea just sort of happened by magic. They love quoting the Declaration, but never mention the men who wrote it or why they wrote it. For the modern credalists, the America Creed is disconnected from the American people, like a cloud hovering over the land.

That’s why it cannot work. While every society has a shared reality with a common morality, it is always tied to the people. It is the people who shape that reality and define that morality. Most important, the people inside define who is and who is not inside that shared reality. For example, to call yourself a Jew, you have to meet certain criteria, but also be accepted in by the Tribe. Similarly, if you wish to call yourself a Native American, you have to prove it to the people of one of the tribes. They decide, not you.

It’s why banishment has always been one of harshest punishments in human society, reserved for those who commit crimes against the people. To expel someone from society literally strips the identity from the person. At the same time, unlike death, it offers the opportunity for redemption. If the banished can prove he belongs, the people can restore him to the group. Again, this is not based on objective criteria handed down from some mysterious place. The people decide when the banished can return.

The way civic nationalists imagine this working is the people have no say in who is and who is not inside the group. If a Somali believes in the carried interest deduction and a hawkish foreign policy, he can be an American, according to Ben Shapiro. If a Guatemalan is good with a leaf blower and promises to vote Democrat, he’s ready to be an American according to the modern Progressive. Since no one inside has a say in the matter, everyone on earth can become an American just by saying so.

This obviously drops the value of being an American to zero, as something anyone can have for the asking is by definition worthless. It also makes citizenship entirely unworkable, as citizenship relies on exclusivity. The citizen is someone inside a well-defined society. If everyone can just walk in and be a citizen, then there is no well-defined society, so no such thing as a citizen. The very basis of human organization collapses, leaving nothing but ad hoc collections of deracinated people.

The truth of these binding ideals like an American Creed or French civic nationalism or Britishness, is that these shared ideals are the mortar that binds the bricks of society. The bricks are things like biology, race, shared history, physical location and even shared interests. The shared reality and common morality bind these together to define the wall between the people inside and the people outside. From time to time the people will need to repoint the wall with new ideals, but it is always in service to that defining wall.

Ultimately, what defines identity, whether it is national identity or culturally identity, is who defines it. For a national identity to exist, you first need a nation willing to define it and enforce it. Similarly with a cultural or religious identity. It’s why every religion has a process for new adherents. They must prove to those inside that they are worthy of inclusion in the faith. The American Creed can only exist if Americans exists with a separate and unique identity, one they define and enforce.

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133 thoughts on “Credalism

  1. That’s all right and nice but none of it can be implemented in the U.S at this time. We have to wait for a serious economic collapse that destroys the enforcement mechanism(judges, police) that keeps a perpetual boot on our necks.

    That said, before any collapse comes, I get the distinct impression our side will get curb stomped because of what is coming. That being the death of the 1A, Big Tech and the MSM is going to make sure the web isn’t going to be our news source and method of communication in the near future. Once they shut off our means of obtaining news from around the country they will come after us and we will be none the wiser as it does.

    Why do you think the entire GOP and Trump are dead silent on the de-platforming of conservatives? Because they agree with it. Trump sold us out. He’s working for the same people who own the Bush family.

    • Don’t recall the cite, but I recall that Trump has within the last week spoken out about deplatforming / censorship.

  2. Want to understand how the Creed of conservatism has failed? Read Reagan’s 1964 “A Time for Choosing” speech and compare every metric he mentions then against where we are now:

    I just had one of the old guard of conservatism tout that speech to me and it made me sick:


    …liberty isn’t long for anybody in this country except those with approved opinions.

    Just now Tapscott is noticing?


    Only since the night in 1964 of The Speech.

    Americans had their time for choosing and they chose Lyndon Johnson instead of Barry Goldwater.

    Conservatives, even under Reagan, have failed to conserve much since.

    Some of the very first things Reagan speaks of in that speech are the tax burden and government spending. If he could have seen the future and see what the numbers are now, he would weep.

    I read that speech and I want to weep myself. We’re farther away than we were in 1964 on every specific metric Reagan mentions.

    I am not even sure we won the Cold War — avowed socialists sit in our Senate and House of Representatives. Sitting Supreme Court Justices have expressed a preference for South Africa’s Constitution over our own, and our previous President hated America and wanted to fundamentally transform it. He may have succeeded.

    Reagan himself dealt a critical blow to our nation with his immigration amnesty deal

    Reagan conservativism has proven insufficient to the challenges it has faced.

    I post here not to praise Reagan and Goldwater, but to bury them.

  3. People in 1880 or 1900 or even 1950 knew what an “American” was. It wasn’t some proposition. Why their children and Grand-children decided to become a “Multi-cultural” nation where “Who is an American?” is answered with “Anyone” is obvious. They didn’t want to be a Country – they wanted to make money. In fact, you can win EVERY policy discussion in the USA by simply proving it will make everyone more $$. Slavery, immigration, free trade, world empire, were all adopted because of $$$.

  4. FWIW if you, for some reason, want to re-locate to Swaziland, you have to literally become a Swazi, and be adopted into a specific clan.

  5. I’ll admit, standing for the national anthem with a hand over the heart is a pretty low bar, but some won’t even do that, which is why I don’t say “African-American” anymore, just “African”.

  6. “If a Somali believes in the carried interest deduction and a hawkish foreign policy, he can be an American”

    Or someone named Shapiro.

    This is still the finest piece of work Matt Damon has made. As an American-American I completely agree with the sentiment:

  7. Who decides?


    Whenever I read “fear God, obey God” in the OT, I see “fear Judah, obey Judah”.

    The function of religion is social cohesion. Religions are political cults with a mythology that supports the elite. This framework of authority is natural, providing a hierarchy of display and legitimacy.

    (The burgeoning sciences of the super-natural were co-opted to serve that mythology; political religion is the wrong format to accurately answer the questions of the metaphysical.)

    Now that we are under occupation by the values of a foreign culture, we are bedeviled by the same internal civil war that has always bedeviled them: the rule of one tribe above all the rest. Judah.

    Most Jews, the epitome of NAJALT, would be happy to celebrate themselves, as do Greeks, or Italians, or Englishmen, or Americans.

    Ahh, but one radical, paranoid faction isn’t happy just being a part.
    They must Rule! They didn’t rule in Egypt, they didn’t in New Babylon, so they must have been slaves! Kept from their rightful destiny!

    Yet they weren’t slaves. They worked for their bread in the off-season when the Nile was quiet, along with everyone else, they weren’t building pyramids in Babylon. They had their own quarter and gate, but they didn’t get a chance to bankrupt New Babylon as Joseph had Egypt, or tear down the temples, leading to civil war.

    Many Jews, freed from their bondage under and betrayal by Judah, were happy to remain dwelling in the house of Sin, following the ways of Sin, the goddess of the City.

    The evolutionary strategy of Judah is crabs in a bucket. Whenever the others try to get away, the genetically predisposed paranoics stir shit up, dragging them back in.

    • They ruled Wiemar Germany, but the Germans replied with nationalism.
      The communist Rotfront infiltrated the Nazi Party by the thousands, turning them into something increasingly depraved and strange.

      Morrell (openly Jewish) and Eichmann, rulers of Auschwitz supplying Bolshevik trains, Streicher of Dur Sturmer, Heydrich and Goebbels, propaganda and the elect Business Council, Mengele experimenting with camoflage to make them “pass”, do you think these were Teutonic Germans? Look at their low, slungback ears, the genetic tell!

      Bormann, the only high survivor of the Bunker, goes to Argentina and founds what became Citigroup, with 700 subsidiaries under its umbrella.
      Where did he get the funding? Who would pay the man who shot Hitler and Eva?

      After funding the Genocide of the First Christians- not just the Armenians, but Syrians, Anatolians, Chaldeans, Greeks as well-

      After the Holodomor of the Kievan Rus and Russo-Jewish Menshivik nationalists, with the continuing genocide of the Orthodox-

      After pushing German-Jewish nationalists out to the colonies for 200 years, with the Final Push into the Pale deportation camps and into a penal colony in Palestina-

      Judah, the line of MAOA psychopathy, invents the chutzpah myth of the Holy Fire, the Holocaust, dragging all the other poor damned Jews back into their bedamned bucket!

      • It’s a breeding pattern. The paranoics reinforce their genetic proclivity by forcing the others to flee back into the breeding pool.

        Jacob married his own cousins, Leah and Rachel. First cousin marriage is what makes the Semitics, and others (Africans), the tribalists they are.

        Hajnal outgrouping- we chose not to marry our close cousins anymore, so we became open, welcoming, cooperative, and trusty.
        Culture and biology reinforce each other’s traits.

  8. The only serious treatment I am aware of regarding how to define citizenship such that it means more than a Costco store membership was contained in one of Robert A. Heinlein’s most controversial books: Starship Troopers. It was roundly condemned by all the mandarins as “fascistic”. Here is the nub of it:

    “Citizenship is an attitude, a state of mind, an emotional conviction that the whole is greater than the part…and that the part should be humbly proud to sacrifice itself that the whole may live.”

    “When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you’re using force. And force, my friends, is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived.”

    “Under our system every voter and officeholder is a man who has demonstrated through voluntary and difficult service that he places the welfare of the group ahead of personal advantage.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers

  9. Whenever this topic arises I like to quote this from Federalist #2:

    “Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people–a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs…”

    This is how the founders envisioned their creation. And this is the opposite of “diversity is our strength.”

    For how long will the lives, writings and ideas of these and other pivotal figures in the history of the United States be revered and celebrated in the “fundamentally transformed” new country that is being created for us?

    • “…how long will the lives, writings and ideas of these and other pivotal figures in the history of the United States be revered and celebrated…‘

      Not for long, that’s for sure, at the rate they are being overturned and/or crowded out with phony alternative figures of merit—every minority group demanding a proportional edification of figures more to their liking.

      Point here is that these historical figures were once a unifying aspect of (our former) American culture. Even though in many cases these figures were deeply flawed (aren’t we all), their “myths” were held up as something that we all should aspire to.

      So George Washington “could not tell a lie”, but he owned slaves. Never was I told as a child that slavery was alright, after all GW owned them—but I do remember lectures on honesty using the apocryphal story of GW cutting down the old man’s cherry tree.

      • Abraham Lincoln:

        “I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races … I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races from living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be a position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.”

        What do you think he would say about the “polyglot boarding house” (Theodore Roosevelt) we live in today?

  10. The one thing that separates America from all other countries is everyone and anyone can become an American.

    In Germany, we have Russians, Poles, Turks, Indians, Chinese (and other Ausländer) who hold German passports. But they’re no more German than a German with Chinese passport would be Chinese.

    Like the old joke; just because your cat had kittens in the oven, it doesn’t make them biscuits.

    • “Identity = a green card” is not limited to America.
      TDS had a piece the other day about a woman asking the Swedish government “how much of our population is Swedish” and the commissar (obviously upset) replied “all of it.” Mutti Merkel’s bunch certainly agrees with them.

      America’s pioneer roots made it more fertile soil for this nonsense, but it’s no more part of genuine American identity than that Swedish apparatchik’s idea of Swedishness. CivNats’ credal identity (your “ideals” say who you are) is little stronger than globohomo credential identity (your papers say who you are).

      An American identity built on credalism, much less credentialism, is a house built on sand.

      • Germany has that “hidden” demographics too. But things have been turning here . More and more, when the media identifies criminals they make it a point to say a “A young man who’s parents immigrated from Turkey 30-years ago…” So it’s very clear we’re not talking about a German, but a Turk with German citizenship.

      • America is different because so many (normies, boomercons, and even commenters here, not to mention all over Amren, etc.) still parrot the canard of “assimilation.” Genuine assimilation, as an ideal, would be happily jettisoning all other forms of identity, adopting the founders and settlers as one’s spiritual forefathers, and all the other standard cultural markers (language, religion, dress, habits, etc.). It’s extremely rare and difficult enough for White European Christians that it takes decades and generations. What we now label assimilation is the barbarism of mass miscegenation, adopting foreign languages and customs, and wrapping it up in a bow called “Amerianism.” Think a sub-Saharan trannie who loves apple pie and blue jeans dancing in a Cinco de Mayo parade.
        It’s an abomination.

    • That used to be the case. Newcomers were always treated with a bit of suspicion until they showed the willingness to assimilate and the ability to add value to society.

      Now we are supposed to welcome absolutely worthless people who have no intention of assimilating and no ability to add any value. The above mentioned Muslim “refugees” are an example.

      • Stop it! Just stop it!

        It’s not about willingness to assimilate. It’s about biology. I can never be Japanese no matter how hard I try. Never! I’m not Japanese by blood. End of fucking story.

        I don’t give a shit if some African or Afghani or Korean wants to assimilate or if they add “value” to the economy. They aren’t my people, my family, so I don’t want them around.

    • We have a similar joke (axiom) in Britain; a dog born in a stable is still a dog. Of course, you can only say this in privacy and to someone trustworthy.

    • Tl, dr summary: Jews cry out in pain as they receive a taste of their own medicine. Seems the goyim have learned a little too well how to perform grievance politics. When tikkum olam comes full circle. Although the chosen eternal victims can be pleased at destroying formerly fine white Christian institutions of higher learning.

  11. One of your best analysis. You understand the Civic nationalists which is more than anyone else has managed so far.

  12. Wha? Athens at the time of Pericles was majority slaves, including the dread mines of Lamoria or somesuch. Wiki: “It is certain that Athens had the largest slave population, with as many as 80,000 in the 6th and 5th centuries BC, with average of three or four slaves per household, except in poor families.”

    • Concept here is who were slaves. The ancient Greeks had no qualms about slavery, but considered the Helots enslaved by Sparta to be Greeks and therefore to be subject to slavery—by fellow Greeks no less—to be shameful. Freedom and democracy were never universal concepts, even within Greece.

  13. Apparently our fellow tribesmen decided they have squeezed enough expertise, invention, intellect and ability out of the white folks in the last century we simply aren’t needed any more. I mean, after the auto, flight, electricity, nuclear power, going to the moon, the internet and the cell phone we have become replaceable.

    We are being ruled by oligarchs who now control the media, the government and just about all the internet information channels. We did not elect Mark Zuckerberg or Jeff Bezos but it is they who will through regulating the flow of information who will be president in 2020. Make no mistake about that.

    No one can win an election if they can’t get their word out and if these guys control the content of the information source the only word that will get out is the word they want out. Just recall the last three years of lies, speculation and accusation on ALL the news media about Russia, Russia, Russia.

    • Just because all that tech is up and running now doesn’t mean it can be maintained by the vibrant – just look at any major US city or foreign country run by blacks. One of my occasional concerns is that once the browning of America is complete, they’ll be just smart enough to realize they need to keep a good number of us around on unpaid, compulsory retainer (slaves) to make sure Black Twitter, BET and the Church’s Fried Chicken chain keep rolling smoothly along.

      Or if you believe Ed Dutton, it’s all gonna slowly crumble regardless, just a matter of time and relative birthrates.

      • Not the Brits, Celts, Gauls or Germani could maintain Roman engineering and technology which was left behind as Rome left Europe.

        Our not so distant ancestors tore down Roman villas and temples and turned them into stables and barns. When Rome fell 476 AD, the recipe for the Pantheon’s concrete was lost to history.

        Something as simple as concrete, which has only been around for about 200-years or so, is only good for about 50-years (1), while Roman concrete is still standing!

        The same thing will happen again when white western Europeans disappear. As goes South Africa, so goes the world.


        • Interesting sciencemag article. What I take away from it isn’t that we don’t know how to make concrete as strong as the Romans, it’s that we lack the low/long time preference.

          So will you be seeing stronger piers and breakwaters anytime soon? Because both minerals take centuries to strengthen concrete, modern scientists are still working on recreating a modern version of Roman cement.

          A modern CEO looks at that and says “Centuries? That’s long after my stock options have vested. Fifty years is plenty.”

          Nobody in power is thinking in terms of the life of the civilization or about posterity.

      • It will crumble inevitably, either through Dutton’s hypothesis or simply the process by which the vibrant bring the system to a halt by disallowing the best and brightest to flourish in the new *fair* society they hope to create.

        The societal decay that diversity has brought us is observable in any setting where vibrancy is the majority—most all cities of size and states where such populations approach the majority. When political power changes hands, the escape values for the best and brightest will be closed. There will be a leveling effect towards a general mediocrity which will be maintained through law disallowing the strongest crabs from leaving the pot.

    • We’ll never get the disruptor I saw in Trump throught the present political system. Trump’s actual peformance convinced me of that. We’ll get to a secessio plebis point in the mid-future as more Whites realize the system will never save them and “rule of law” inevitably screws them and their posterity.

      • And McConnell is ready to “move on” from Mueller/Russia, precisely at the moment when the deep state apple cart might actually get overturned, or at least broadly exposed. Deep state runs deep and wide.

        • The Turtle’s kabuki is so transparent, almost as bad as BoehnerRyan. No one is ever going to get “locked up” over Mueller, DNC, Seth Rich etc… And Trump is fully complicit in this. Listening to MAGA’s still telling themselves otherwise is cringe-inducing. Every person the Deep State and Uniparty suffer to rise to power is compromised in some way. Elliot Ness is not coming to save us via the ballot box. Trump’s the last time I fall for that bullshit.

      • Trump did his part in shifting the Overton window our way. I never expected more from him simply because its not in him.

        He’s a 70 year old hotelier and entertainer not a Caesar

  14. In the news I see ungrateful Muslim women members of the House of Representatives mocking everything we believe in. It’s purposeful of course. They want to rub our faces in our own impending doom.

    • They’re no wrong when they say it’s not our country anymore. It’s not. Realizing that is the first step in our journey. CivNats can’t accept that, so they stay stuck.

      • This. I am so utterly sick of Boomercons lamenting “we will lose our republic” or “if we don’t control our borders” or “we must stop illegal immigration.” What part of more than 50% of “American” K-12 schoolchildren are non-White don’t they understand? We could lock this flophouse down tomorrow and NOTHING would change. Non-Hispanic Whites are, at most, 55% of the population (officially 60.9%, but that includes 2% Jews, 1% Arabs, various Latinos who declare themselves White, etc.) and most of those Whites are 45+. Even if all else didn’t indicate we won’t make it another decade, the surplus of White deaths and the dearth of White births will herald some big changes a lot of normies aren’t going to be able to wave away, and soon.

        • People have to get over the notion of “saving” the country. There’s no country left to save. It’s over. Dead parrot over.

          I realize that it’s hard for people to see sometimes, especially if they live in a nice suburb where the old America lingers on. But those areas are becoming isolated islands that will eventually be swamped.

          We have to let go and build something new.

    • Those ungrateful Muslims are almost as bad as those ungrateful Jews, who hate the white Christians that provided such a nice country for them to become so wildly prosperous in. Anyway, it’s all behind us now, we’re in a different place now that the nice old USA is gone. I’ve reached the point of cheering on Ilhan Omar and any other Muslims or other tribe who ask for Israeli/Jewish influence in our governance to be decreased and are brave enough to say it publicly.

  15. Will the book go further than your essays and offer a proposed path forward?

    For example, will it have a chapter on what defines the American Identity?

    vs. just saying we need one?

    • For a first effort, I’m going to make it easy on myself and stick to a format I’ve mastered. I’m working on a collection of essays that expands on topics I’ve touched on here. Instead of the short 1000 word post, I’m doing 3-5K word essays.

      All first efforts are full of mistakes and missteps, so I’m not going to bite off more than I can chew.

    • You can’t have an American Identity when the country is made up of various races. Whites are a minority of children born in this country. There will be no American Identity when America is 40% white, 30% Hispanic, 15% black, 8% Asian of various flavors, 2% Jewish, 2% Muslim and 3% mystery meat.

      Various identities will grow out of that mess, but the American Identity dying if not dead.

      • Citizen, exactly. I’m not even sure how why we had the original essay and the number of comments beating around the bush until you stepped up to point out the elephant standing one the room, race.

        American identity is derived from race, religion, and the culture specifically inherited from our original White Northern European settler mixture. This is why you don’t find specific description in our founding documents of an American creed, or what it is to be an American. At the time, it was a given—like the air we breath—that new Americans would continue to arrive from Northern European countries in numbers allowing for adaptation, with differences in culture and mannerisms well within acceptable allowances to the general population and current culture.

        None of the Founders could ever have imagined a time when large groups of totally alien races, religions, cultures would be imported into the United States in overwhelming numbers. Had that been anticipated, you can be sure they’d have produced quite a different Constitution. Civnat’s as we call them are just naive or duplicitous individuals who are making up an ex post facto explanation/reassurance as to why we should not worry about the present state of affairs.

        Get the biology right and it’s all downstream from there.

  16. I just want to live in a country of white people.

    Unfortunately, I’m not sure that rises to the level of a “creed.” Historically, it appears that creeds need to have a memetically very special and particular religious-narrative-psychological structure to really fire up adherents to both (a) thrive and (b) spread the creed.

    Zman’s buddy Dutton has some interesting remarks on this, in the process taking a whack at the whackworthy Jordan Peterson:

    • “I just want to live in a country of white people.”

      +1 on that creed.

      • I did as young man and while its not perfect, it beats the hell out of the alternative.

    • I like Dr. Dutton, but I think “taking down” JBP is not really a good strategy.

      Reminds me of when I used to fish for crab as a child with a long string and a raw chicken neck bought for pennies at the grocery store. Once you had a few crabs in the bucket, you could leave the lid off, because if one crab managed to get to the top of the pile and possible escape, the others would clamp on and pull him back down.

      I think a lot of what JBP says is just trite self help advice, but it’s certainly not as poisonous as the progressive SJW anti-white messages flooding the culture. I thinks maybe some academics are a little envious of the ridiculous amount of attention lavished on an intellectual they feel is much less worthy of adulation as say, they are.

      • I did one post on Peterson, comparing him to Stephen Covey and other middlebrow self-help guys. I don’t see the harm in this stuff. Sure, Peterson spouts a lot of nonsense, but the people consuming it are harmless.

        • To the extent the haters have created a cottage hate-industry for Peterson (e.g. Beale), they’re gas-canning his tiny flame. His Thing is too superficial to damage Our Thing – the premises of “Jordanetics” are easily refuted and their shallowness easily revealed. He’s too edgytarian to get globohomo backing and too globohomo to keep shitlords onside once they get a taste of Our Thing.

          • I have to consider the possibility that maybe I live in a cave, or under a rock, and didn’t realize it; if it hadn’t been for all the people complaining about Peterson and running him down, I would never even know he existed. Is he really that big of a deal? I mean, who remembers stuff like Jonathan Livingston Seagull these days? He seems to be in about that league, the intellectual equivalent of a Jethro Tull album. (One good song and a ton of baloney.)

            From what I can tell he’s a mild-mannered sloppy thinker and confused writer whose brand of syncretism makes no sense because he doesn’t appear to understand the ur-texts he’s syncretizing to begin with. Every so often he makes a stubborn, principled stand on some very basic dumb issue that would never be in question in a sane society in the first place, and for this he is made into a hero, apparently. Okay. I think he’s sort of the intellectual equivalent of the clumsy guy from “F Troop”: he became a hero by accident because he got the best of that dingbat British chick in a debate on the BBC. It was no glorious victory because she would have lost a debate to a catfish.

            I guess some pretty sharp handlers must have seen some potential for $$$ in all this, found Peterson’s windup key, wound him up and kept him talking. Now we’ve got the absurd spectacle of The Most Smartest Galaxy Brain Guy In The Universe writing books and columns and blog posts meticulously denouncing the intellectual equivalent of a box of Raisin Bran.

            It’s like going to the trouble of getting a Ph.D. in literature so you can pronounce with authority that Maya Angelou is a lousy poet.

        • He does tell people to stop being victims which is pretty revolutionary at the current moment in time. Unfortunately, he is mostly telling white people

    • You should consider Ireland. Very white and very willing to take new comers, especially Americans with Irish heritage. Dublin, like all major cities, has it’s share of immigrants. But from Sligo, heading south along the western coast and back up to Waterford, it’s very nice and very white. Probably like California, Oregon or Washington state 75-years ago.

      • Shhh. That’s one of my back-up plans. Germany used to be on that list as well, but I’m beginning to wonder. (Also, I’m a bit too light-hearted for the Germans. You guys should just add Prozac or Cymbalta directly to the water.)

      • I am a retired government employee, so I’m hoping some nice white Eastern European countries have liberal resident visa programs for (white) Americans who’d like to spend their US funded retirement check on their economy. I’m not so confident about the coming population mix in Ireland or any part of the British Isles or Western Europe. Those invading barbarian buggers have babies fast and furiously.

  17. America was never an “idea” or a “creed” or a “proposition”, and it stopped being a nation or a country quite a while ago. America is now merely a gigantic cookie jar, and everyone on planet Earth deserves a cookie.

    America is sort of like a wrap party at a fancy disco for the cast and crew members of a Broadway show. But some knucklehead felt bad for all the gawking civilians on the sidewalk outside (who weren’t invited because they weren’t part of the show) and decided to open all the fire-exit doors and let in everybody from off the street. Now it’s no longer a cast party, it’s just a big, noisy, unpleasant, massively-overcrowded room. And the bar ran out of drinks hours ago. Screw it, let’s grab Sully and the guys and head over to Save the Robots.

  18. Americans have absolutely no identity. What does it mean to be an American anymore?

    We are not bound by blood, traditions, culture, religion, history or heroes. We’re an economic zone with a boarding house. We’re held together by a dwindling core of whites, momentum, institutions that continue to mostly function, lack of a better alternative and fear of losing what we have.

    However, each of those things will weaken over time. I used to think that Brazil of the North was our dystopian future. Now, I’m wondering if that’s our best case scenario.

  19. Stuff like this betrays the depth of the Founders’ knowledge and philosophy when writing the constitution. And how pathetically shallow we are in our interpretation of it.

    Freedom of association is our right to build our nations and tribes as we see fit. The government doesn’t get to decide that for us.

    • And yet, it is the members of our own tribe who desert us and sell us out! It is our own tribe that pushes for AA and open borders. It is our own tribe that brings in Mohammadans and African blacks and call us the racists. They are the ones who erased our right to free association by passing laws requiring we associate with those THEY choose. Then call us names if we resist.

      • There are no private sector solutions to diversity and hiding behind your restrictive covenants and gated communities wouldn’t save you from woke folk invasion or subversion anyway/

        I get the idea of doing it with less cost in blood and treasure but the conflict isn’t a monetary one, . Its existential and either they get the society they want or you do.

        Worse hiding means you leave the poorer member of the tribe to the enemy , depriving yourself of resources and giving the enemy an in.

        Your polity need to be as homogeneous as possible and have social controls and the more homogeneous, the larger the possible polity . It needs to be subversion resistant and invasion resistant bith.

        A gated community with its own stores I guess technically qualifies as a polity of sorts but its inadequate. Power is truth and that’s not enough.

        Also while we are at, we as a movement might want to reconsider the US Constitution as written. It was a Leftist document written for a moral and homogeneous people almost all of whom were Christian , a yeomanry if you will

        Ignoring the inherent contradictions in a Leftist document for a yeomanry, its inadequate for the current people

        You need to be able to lock up subversives and yes to censor them.

        In the past this was less of an issue than now because in 1920 no one would put a Baphomet in the public square . If you don’t want 10 year old drag queens and public Satanism, the system must be designed to prevent any kind of lawfare . You do X, you get prison , no other options.

        No appeals of the nature of the law, no changing fundamentals, no long march through the instructions, no work arounds (the 2nd means what it says) and anyone trying that stuff needs either prison, execution or exile

        Nice? No. Resistant to subversion? Yep.

      • This is the source of constant wonder for me.

        Why would the very people who created the worlds greatest civilization willingly reduce it to such a weakened state that it could be handed over to aliens?

    • The government is the reflection of the nation and you aren’t going to have a nation without one.

      The problem is when a society is made up of incompatible parts, its becomes more and more difficult to have a government that reflects its people

      They key is to make smaller nations and with their own government, none of this States rights crap because the later is never respected by the woke folk rather its the modern ones or the ones in 1861. They won’t leave you alone and the only way you’ll be left alone is to be too strong to mess with

      This is why we limit our screwing around with Russia and with North Korea and China and if you want a nation of your own and the woke folks are still around, you’ll need to be hard as nails and protect from subversion

      Its ugly, its crabbed , its narrow minded but its the only way you’ll keep that lot and the globalists looters from destroying you.

      small city state but its weak and I don’t know about

  20. Separation is necessary for identity to exist. Civil rights ala 1964, Title VII and their affirmative action spinoffs like redlining laws and bussing crippled our ability to separate physically and economically. Goldwater was right. Applying these laws beyond actual civil issues like voting rights and access to public buildings, to the “private sector,” was disastrous.

    As Z has mentioned before, the right to live and work next to White people you hate is a PoC’s most treasured “civil right.” In my desired separatist future, that’s one of the biggest X-factors. How hard will the Ascendant fight to keep hold of their despised, tattered White Woobie?

  21. People forget the importance of the principle of subsidiarity in understanding how societies cohere. The basis of human organization is not the nation, but the family. The aftermath of amoral relativism has been a culture that celebrates no-fault divorce, single motherhood and illegitimate births or abortion on demand as the contraception of last resort, having two daddies or fifty genders or females with penises. All this has undermined the family to the point that it can no longer serve as the foundation of society, just as citizenship for all is worthless in upholding national identity. Without an objective morality the family cannot thrive and society ultimately degenerates. We can argue about what that morality should be based upon. I personally favor natural law and patriarchal values. But to maintain that morality doesn’t exist or is entirely subjective (i.e. merely the individual will to power) leads inexorably to civilizational death.

    • The destruction of the family was the core precept behind the Frankfurt schools program for a truly Marxist society.

  22. For most of our history, group traits (what you call identity) evolved naturally and what persisted is what worked in a particular environment. Our species evolved high intelligence and moved to the top of the biological pyramid in large part because we adapted complex language skill and used it to reprogram our young postpartum with wisdom that helped them survive and thrive at an accelerated pace. Then modern technology happened, and the ancient mechanisms of reprogramming (religion) were co-opted by nefarious megalomaniacs and used to exploit the weak-minded via malicious indoctrination. The original form of slavery was via physical force, now it’s via memetic infection.

  23. Is a binding creed even possible anymore. Maybe in Europe but probably not here.

    Even white normies are on the verge of internal banishment. Being a good corporate citizen (our new faith, sort of) is still not good enough. They still have to do penance for the institutional witchcraft that keeps Squats and Blacks held back and defer to the peddlers of tikkun olam.

    If you refuse to bend the knee to this then you are irredeemable and deserve to suffer and die off.

    If you’re on this side of the divide do you even want those we see as traitors back in the fold even if we could turns things around politically?

    If the Peloponnesians and the Athenians had a lot of good reasons to let the balloon go up so do we, if not more so.

  24. At the same time America is getting new people from all over the world, crowding out the historic people, it looks like a new identity or creed is starting to form. One that won’t include free speech and the right to bear arms and control over our borders, and other things we’ve always taken for granted.

    • With rights come responsibilities. Drowning our country in all the immigrants of the world has stripped major portions of our population from having the capacity or willingness to exercise proper responsibility over their actions and attitudes. So we all suffer the consequences of their failure to take on the responsibilities of citizenship, and the American Experiment is faulted for failing to live up to its ideals. The thing is, the powers-that-be begged the question by knowingly flooding the country with those who don’t “get it”. Of course things are failing. The system has been rigged to fail.

      • The ploy of rigging things to fail is an old one, and so common that I would have a hard time describing any acts of Congress that a not set up as such. 🙁

  25. Exclusivity and differential morality aren’t good for the profit margins of multinational conglomerates. Those are what are defining things today, no doubt.

  26. Carried interest is *not* a deduction under rules of Jewish accounting as described in “The Book of All Righteous Sophistries” (the so-called Talmud). The Talmud lays out a scheme for defrauding gentile tax authorities by formation of a partnership between hedge fund managers and investors that provides for 20%, typically, of hedge fund capital gains to be allocated to the managers as compensation for their putative investment “expertise.” Under rules for taxation of partnerships promulgated in good faith by naive goyim, allocated partnership capital gains are taxed at the capital gains rate, rather than at higher personal or corporate rates. So the crafty and malicious Jews of our era conceal flagrant tax evasion within the structure of a type of business organization devised centuries ago by god-fearing Christians and their Odin-worshipping antecedents.

  27. I’ve always admired Switzerland for its triple citizenship criteria: you are a citizen of the municipality first, the canton/region second, and the Confederation last. In other words, citizenship extends from local “bricks” rather than a top-down acknowledgment of membership.

    Oh, and their 2014 nationality law is a beauty: some of its requirements are that the applicant must be familiar and well-integrated with Swiss life, must be able to communicate proficiently in the national language, must participate in the legal economy or education, and must support the integration of the applicant’s spouse and children.

    Oh, and the cantons can require further criteria, so another implicit requirement is that your new neighbors have to like you.

    • Yes, and Switzerland also has a more direct democracy. Citizens get to vote far more often on specific laws and measures.

      In North America we have political parties that are intended to be big tents that fit as many people in as possible, but in reality become abstract party platforms that describe no one, except for mindless party hacks.

      Who do you vote for if, say, you want public health care, an end to affirmative action, a smaller military, and the right to bear arms. Answer: no one. You’re stuck supporting a political party which, at best, may represent a few of your beliefs, and at worst none of them, except for maybe one or two hot-button issues.

      Worst of all, even if your party wins, the chances of them actually enacting the legislation you want are slim. That’s why the endless wars will never end, and affirmative action will be with us forever.

      In a referendum the politicians – at least in theory – have to enact the legislation the people demand. Of course, as we’re seeing with Brexit the political class is trying to nullify even that.

      • Given the current situation, I’ve changed my mind on voting for any particular candidate. Like elsewhere, I’d switch to voting for a party and apportion seats in Congress accordingly. I’ve pretty much given up on hoping to place in power any particular politician, who are quickly co-opted by the party they run under even if they were once honestly interested in your particular concerns.

      • And the Swiss didn’t allow women to vote till 1960.
        It’s been downhill from then on.

    • That looks like a good starting point with a lot of flexibility, largely organic, bottom-up organized. I’ve noticed that while Nassim Taleb’s Swiss fetish is well-covered in his books. he fails to mention the ethno-nationalistic core. His inner libertarian won’t permit it.

      • Taleb is purple-pilled, as the PUA’s say. He knows the truth, but he just can’t make that final jump and recognize (or admit that he recognizes) the reality and importance of ethnicity. This is at the root of his absurd IQ denialism, and his “National characteristics do not exist” nonsense.

        But he knows the truth. Just call him an Arab and watch what happens.

    • Once again, one rule for Whitey, different rules for everyone else. In the last week I saw a story about thousands of African “refugees” living on the dole in Switzerland.

      • I believe a lot of that is because of agreements via international organizations like UN or EU, albeit Swiss are not in EU. As long as the Africans can never be normalized as Swiss, they can survive such.

    • Anyone attempting to become a Japanese citizen must provide documentation, both on paper and with photographs, that he mixes well socially with other Japanese.

      • If things go to hell in the US, an army of cosplaying weebs can show up at the Osaka Airport quoting “One Punch Man” and get immediate citizenship.

  28. I was just thinking, what if an extremely qualified person were to somehow get into a company and begin working? Not hired, mind you, just starts doing the work. He would dress correctly, show up on time, interface with others well, but when it came time to get paid, he would not receive a check. Why not? He did the work. He dressed the part. Everyone likes him. But the fact that he had NOT BEEN HIRED would preclude his acceptance into the employee tribe, and therefore he would not be eligible for the benefits of the tribe. It seem ludicrous to me that our country has a lower (much, much lower) criteria for dolling out tribe benefits to those who don’t belong to our tribe, i.e. Citizenship. Like Duane Allman said “I was born a simple man” and it seems sort of simple to me.

  29. >The American Creed can only exist if Americans exists with a separate and unique identity, one they define and enforce.

    I reckon enforcement would look more like an inquisition than conservatives are comfortable with. Which is how you know they don’t actually believe in an American Creed.

  30. I can’t recall there ever having been such a defined American identity. If there is one what is it? I consider myself an American patriot but I find myself unable to define an American identity. I may just be stupid or I may not be understanding of what you mean.

    • America’s identity is the Rebel Without A Cause.

      I’m serious: we picked up all the disaffected folks, from English Puritans to Irish and Italian riff raff (from whom I proudly descend) and put them in one country defined, up until the end of the 19th century, by the ability to simply move further west if you didn’t fit in. And the slaves and indentured servants who came here involuntarily certainly didn’t feel a sense of comraderie with everyone else either.

      The history of our country is constant, mostly aimless rebellion, which ironically enough created one of the most productive and creative societies ever conceived. But it also birthed a perpetually disgruntled society, one that will never be happy with America’s “ideals” as promulgated by its mainstream leadership.

      • Not in the South. We have (had) an identity that pre-dates the arrival of most of the groups you mention by a fair stretch. We even fought a war to maintain control over it. Unfortunately, importing hordes of unwanted aimless rebels to fill uniforms was not part of it. Our enemy had no problem with that tactic. Therefore, the new American identity you described very well was born.

        • Regionalism is where I’m increasingly convinced that American Identity should re-focus on the “national” level, along the lines of Albion’s Seed. We’re the pioneer offspring of distinct European tribes. The Founders themselves, for the most part, envisioned a confederacy of separate “state-nations” which united on common issues like defense, infrastructure and territorial expansion – more like NATO than even the EU, much less the present US Empire where states are administrative subdivisions for Big Mother.

          • Regionalism makes a lot of sense, within an American context.

            We descendants of those who came West as Pioneers have a certain something within us that is tough to pin down but shows up in how we live our lives in a very real way. Other regions have their own versions of this.

            I for one adore Southerners, but it’s not truly my culture. Diversity is awesome; the multicultural hell that (((certain people))) have forced on us is not.

          • That’s what’s remarkable, is the level of diversity within one nation by itself. By certain lights the civil war should never have happened; at the beginning the men involved shared the same religion (often exactly the same denomination), shared national origin, same last names, same literature and history until very recently. They then proceeded to kill each other in the bloodiest war in American history.

          • It might be useful to know that the North was colonized by many Roundheads and the South by many Cavaliers.

          • Hoyos makes a good point. Human nature dictates there will always be in groups and out groups. However, not all in groups are equally cohesive. Further, who is in and out can be altered by experience and when most whites see that they are attacked as a group, I hope that they will become an in group.

            We want to build on the firmest foundation although no foundation is without cracks.

            I don’t know if the war between the states would have happened if blacks weren’t among us, but their presence certainly made the war far more likely.

          • Thanks for mentioning “Albion’s Seed”.

            It’s not really an easy read, but if you want to understand what “America” is (or once was), this book is a must-read.

      • The founders thought of American as a distinct ethnic group and it is a distinct ethnic group, the same way Afrikaners aren’t really “Dutch”, the Americans aren’t really “English” (the cousin metaphor is most accurate). It was basically British isles descent, some Dutch, some Huguenot, good chunk of Germans. The English and the Dutch were top of the pile socially. Once a group has been there for 300 years, they’re kind of their own thing. The trick is to not think “genetically” but “tribally”. We’ve had several Dutch descended presidents for example and no one batted an eye about their Americanness at the time; the Dutch were always part of it even if the English part was the dominant influence. Also, many Americans were not ashamed to some Indian in the background, although hopefully not too close.

    • I certainly can’t define American identity in a few sentences, but when I conjure up images of America, it doesn’t include mosques, hijabs, sombreros, and Buddha.

      The America I know is baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, Chevrolet….also John Wayne, country music, 4th of July fireworks, Norman Rockwell, the Super Bowl, blue jeans, town hall meetings, rock-n-roll, long road trips, Main Street, hunting & fishing, Thanksgiving, etc…..

    • I’m struggling to find our real identity amid the revisionism we were fed in school and media. Our real history is a good starting point (Buchanan’s “Republic…”) but that led me to the question of whether we’re still best defined by our own Euro ancestors’ particular roots or America. I think we’re too diverse and young, and that the waters have been too muddied by agendas, for an organic “American” identity to coalesce. If you look at how America evolved before the Second Founding, a man’s identity was strongly state-and-region based. For Our Thing, we’ll need to start with something smaller and more coherent than “American” to learn how to see the colors of identity again.

      • And that is why America will break apart/fight as soon as the feds can’t force us to stay.

      • There will be no “American Identity” in a country that’s 40% white, 30% Hispanic, 15% black, 8% Asian of various flavors, 2% Jewish, 2% Muslim and 3% mystery meat. It won’t happen.

        Lasting identity starts with biology, gets stronger with shared language and culture and is cemented by a shared history and heroes. We have none of that anymore. We are held together by laws, momentum, lack of an alternative and fear of losing what we have. That won’t last.

        • To form an American identity, Whites first need to vote with our feet and physically come together in core states where we can have the 80%+ majorities it takes to hold the line against the 25% minority-opinion threshold. I’d love to see a movement to Make Texas Red Again, but border proximity makes Texas a sub-optimal redoubt.

          • Want to retake America? Or get a chunk of it? Here’s an idea I guarantee everyone will hate. Just an idea.

            Don’t find a “redoubt” like the libertarian free state projects in Idaho or New Hampshire, move to NYC, DC, Philly, Boston, Rhode Island, etc., all the liberal hell holes that are paradoxically the original source and original historical heartland of America. We’re smaller than they are and have less control. If I’ve read BH Lidell Hart correctly and studied enough jiu jitsu, we want to be right on top of our most influential enemies. We want to be cuddled up right next to them so any serious moves they make on us they’ll have to make right in their own backyard not out in “the sticks”.

            Any attempt to move out to some “better” more isolated place will result in getting Waco’d or Ruby Ridge’d before it can really get established.

          • I’m living that dream in SoCal already, living on the front line of madness has its advantages. That said, it’s not for people with kids. We need safe space at our core to raise children. Big Other could Ruby Ridge entire blocks of Los Angeles weekly and no one would notice, even if media covered it (which we know it wouldn’t). The only time they put mayhem onscreen in hell-zones like Philly are when blacks like MOVE are the targets.

      • Almost every day now, I talk to black and brown. They are eager to talk openly with a white nationalist, and always begin with “I see racism as the problem.”

        I reply with, “My brother, I want to bring you to the Nazi side.” And they always smile- we part as real friends.

        I learned yesterday why the cities burned in ’68, after the death of MLK and Malcolm X.

        At last, at long last, the American blacks were free of the tribal webs and death traps of Africa that formed them.

        Free to have a chance to form a Thing. They saw MLK and MX as the face of Their Thing. The chance to have Our Thing of their own, an American Black Thing.

        A place where people didn’t look at them funny; that endless weight, that constant, unending psychic pressure where you can’t be sure, where you can’t just be who you are.

        The relief and joy of one remarkable man- truly a superior person- who had been in Afghanistan. Those people, poor, war-torn, couldn’t speak English- yet they brought him into their homes and would share a meal with him, the finest they could provide.

        They saw him not as a this or a that, but only, as the man he was. Complete strangers reveling in each other’s humanity. The relief and joy in his voice was transcendant, it was a wonder to behold.

    • Forging a national identity from a mixed European heritage had been a work in progress. It was being tempered and rehammered again and again. An identity was beginning to emerge, an identity derived and distilled from a European heritage and an American experience for that heritage…then 1965 happened.

      • Yep, we could have become and American people if not for 1965. Immigration was mostly halted in 1924. By this point, we would have had nearly 100 years to begin blending together. There still would have been regional differences, but a true American people would have slowly begun to form.

        Alas, that was not to be.

      • I know I said it earlier in the thread, but Americans HAD a unique identity. It was basically British Isles, heavy emphasis on English with some Dutch, Huguenot, and a good chunk of German; the last three of which fit hand in glove when it came to assimilation. Nathaniel Hawthorne and Herman Merville weren’t confused about what an American was. That came later.

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