Suicidal Stupidity

Since the early days of the alt-right, there has been a debate among dissidents about the utility of street protests. Prior to the Charlottesville debacle, most people, including the alt-lite types, were sure it was necessary for right-wing groups to “show the colors” on the street, even if it meant confrontation with the goon squads of the Left. Many, of course, were excited by the opportunity to mix it up with groups like Antifa. The truth is, a lot of guys were attracted to the alt-right because they wanted the action.

After the Charlottesville disaster, opinion swung the other way. Richard Spencer soldiered on with his college speaking gigs, but each one was more embarrassing than the next, as the Left turned them into a violent circus that was blamed on the alt-right and anyone within distance of them. The authorities and the media openly sided with Antifa, so these events became recruiting videos for them. It was black clad street fighters versus cartoon Nazis, with the black bloc always winning.

Despite the obvious futility of these types of things, there remains a faction that insists this sort of stuff is useful. A group calling itself Patriot Prayer holds street events in Portland Oregon, where they are pummeled by well-organized Antifa gangs, supported by the police and the mayor. This past weekend, they had a rally where a small number of them got the hell beat out of them by hundreds of Antifa. An old man was beaten with crowbars and an Asian homosexual was doused with some sort of chemical.

Of course, the internet was full of right-wingers, mostly the goofy civic nationalist types, demanding sympathy for what happened. It was the usual stuff, accusing the Left of being the real fascist enemies of freedom. It is just another form of the hand-wringing we would see from the Buckley crowd after they lost another fight with the Left. It is an effort to turn failure into noble suffering. As someone one Gab put it, it is just failure theater that makes the Left look good and the Right look like losers.

Frankly, there should be zero sympathy for the people getting beaten at these events, as they deserve the beating. If someone walks into a biker club and starts challenging the bikers on their home turf, no one would be shocked if the bikers beat the crap out of the idiot. In fact, most people would assume the guy had it coming. The same applies to these stupid street protests like the one in Portland. These people are begging to be assaulted on camera by Antifa, so they get what they deserve.

More important, they are functioning as the willing stooges of Antifa. Without some right-wing goofballs there would be no reason for the riot. If they did riot, they would be blamed for it and the media would be forced to report the truth, at least some of the truth, about the people involved. With the rental clowns from the Right, the whole show can go on according to the script. It becomes one long recruiting video for Antifa, which ends up looking like the place to go if you are young and angry.

This is an extension of a larger fight among dissidents, between the old white nationalist types and the younger, smarter activists and thinkers, who have entered the space over the last decade. The old school types like the street brawls for personal reasons, but they insist their old tactics are the only tactics. These are the people who insist on being public, self-doxing and adopting taboo iconography. These are the guys who say, “if you’re are going to be called a Nazi, you may as well be one.”

The last part, of course, is just surrendering to the Left. Once you allow the Left to define the terms, they control the language. Once they control the language, they control the public morality and you have lost. Oddly, this is the same basic mistake the Buckley types have been making for generations. The result is that the old white nationalists were never more than the organ grinder’s monkey for the Left. When lefty needed some cartoon Nazis, he would whistle and these guys would perform.

The idiocy of this stuff should be obvious, but it persists for a reason. Despite generations of failure, young men are attracted to these tactics because they offer some adventure and excitement. Even while getting humiliated by Antifa, there is a sense of fraternity that has a timeless appeal. Of course, it helps that the Left has evolved to encourage this behavior, as it furthers their interests. They have become adept at conjuring this sort of street theater and turning it into propaganda.

That said, it is exactly why charging into a left-wing stronghold in order to be pummeled into submission is suicidal stupidity. On the one hand it plays right into the familiar narrative the Left has used for generations to control white people. This is their game and they play it well. On the other hand, it suggest that dissidents are no better than the Antifa street thugs. Fair or foul, people judge you by the company you keep and those pictures of street brawls are what normal white people see on television.

Activism of any sort is about encouraging your side and discouraging the other side. If your efforts encourage the other side, they are always bad for your side. Making the enemy stronger is never good. On the other hand, activism that makes your side stronger, outside the sight of the enemy is the best, as it leaves them unprepared. By definition, the sorts of street theater we saw in Portland should be avoided. In fact, it should be assumed they are staged by the Left to serve the ends of their activism.

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223 thoughts on “Suicidal Stupidity

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  2. The author of this piece is an idiot.

    In the real world, a place foreign to you, there are people “on the right” who aren’t old, and aren’t white. I’m a first generation latino, Constitutionalist, and combat veteran.

    And no one gets “humiliated” by antifa. They are a laughing stock.

    • Josh I agree that the author is an idiot. I am one of the so called “white nationalist” he speaks of.

      I am White and I believe in God, Family, and Country. If anyone has a problem with that, they are more than welcome to voice their opinion.

      But if they decide to get violent, they should know that violence will be dealt back to them. And they may not like the outcome.

      I too am a vet and will use everything I was trained with to defend myself, my family and my constitutional country.

      Antifa, in my opinion are nothing more than a bunch of bottom feeding basement dwelling cowards. And one day they are going to cross a line that is going to cost them dearly.

    • Even accounting for the fact English is not your first language, this is one of the dumber comments I’ve seen in a long time.

      • You need look no further than your own delusions in the above blog to find rhetoric dumber than any of the two comments here. At least try and debate a point I made.

        Unsurprising you have no real response.

  3. Just after Waco I formed two militias in Southwest Missouri because the “militias” back then were survivalist groups. Two days after Oklahoma City Bombing a number of them said that they were not going to join my militias because ZOG was going to crack down. So the only militias left were FBI-approved, as are the Klans. Also, just before the Internet Movement people used to have “mentors” who would advise against showing themselves. The Internet changed all that to mandate showing your ass in order to claim to be important. But warlordism is the Movement’s future.

    The leaders of the Charlottesville 2017 disaster, Richard Spencer, Mike Enoch, Augustus Invictus, are jews and mongrels of some sort. They deliberately exposed 400 White newbies to scrutiny and ruined their chances to be effective local warlords. They set up something called “The Foundation for the MarketPlace of Ideas” or as I call it “The ZOGbot Poverty [F]Law Center. Those who set up that “lawfare” group were much the same ZOGbots of Charlottesville:

    The “lawfare” is now against White Supremacist groups and Churches. Bryan Reo along with his friends Kyle Bristow and Brett Klimkowsky. After five years of litigation I and my Church were summoned to Lake County Ohio and there before a Lake County lynch mob me and my Church of Jesus Christ Christian /; Aryan Nations of Missouri were ruled against for $105,000 and $400 respectively for calling Bryan Reo a homosexual mongrel and ZOGbot.

    I’ll of course appeal and file a federal lawsuit about how a municipal or county couret has no jurisdiction over someone 900 miles away making fun of a mongrel playing at White Supremacist.

    So what is the point? Most of the Movement “leadership” is working for the feds all along and following them is putting your head in a noose.

    The future is in local strong men who will forge order out of chaos as this federal government implodes. Warlordism, as there won’t be enough unity for a Caesar or a Bonoparte to arise. But first a collapse.

    Hail Victory !!!

    Pastor Martin Lindstedt
    Church of Jesus Christ Christian / Aryan Nations of Missouri

  4. I have a certain sympathy with this point of view. No one likes a loser. But, to take one example, that of Robespierre’s path to power in the Convention, there were at least some elements of his strategy that depended, and this may be analysis after the fact, on running the gauntlet of ‘honourable failure’ to be leveraged in a martyr’s cause subsequently.

  5. “Activism of any sort is about encouraging your side and discouraging the other side. If your efforts encourage the other side, they are always bad for your side.”

    Hmmm, I wonder. It seems possible to encourage the other side to act like baboons. Just because they are encouraged, does not imply their antics are looked on fondly by the average Joe. “Winning” in the eyes of fellow baboons is not necessarily winning in the eyes of humans.

    But yeah, it doesn’t hurt to consider what you are trying to accomplish, and evaluating whether or not you did so. To me, street protests only work with a supportive media. Media supports the left, not the right, so street protests are probably not going to work for the right.

  6. At least these ‘losers’ as you call them are getting out from behind their keyboard. When is the last time you did that Z?

  7. I think the ideal solution is to find a way to manifest ghost demonstrations which cause the bolshevics to appear and, as they’ve proven themselves incapable of resisting, attack police and storefronts. “Antifa sans ‘Fa'” is pretty funny. It’s just not absolutely clear how to spoof a bait rally convincingly. If that code were cracked, however, you could theoretically place your local bolshevics at the time and place of your choosing.

  8. Does anybody remember the bumfights videos? If a bunch of teenagers can pay bums to fight each other, then Soros can easily do the same on a much larger scale by dressing up bums as Antifa and Nazi LARPers.

  9. As we approach the event horizon, the greater the urge to grasp at the trivial. The violent riots and lawlessness that marked the final years of Obama’s presidency and the homeless hordes and sewage filled streets of coastal cities are only a taste of what’s coming. The cartels were only beginning to flex their muscle when 45 got into office. Once Trump is out of the way (and armed with fresh recruits from the south) it’s only a matter of time before they notch things up by degrees. They’ll make Antifa look like choir boys.

    Zman is correct, the present ‘beatdowns’ between various factions of the left are nothing more than rituals of a dying era. The CivNats may have one last ‘hurrah’ in 2020 before they become completely irrelevant. The future is where white men will decide their fate. It took decades for the Celtic Revival to seed, take root, grow into a movement men were willing to fight for. Like Robert the Bruce hiding as an outlaw in the Highlands after Methven, we too can learn from the past, regroup and adapt. There is meaningful work to be done. Spend these days wisely.

  10. The so-called “antifa” are merely tools – they’re disposable tools. You can break one tool, another tool, and yet another tool until you go blue in the face, but taking out the tools does not discomfit the powerful who own and fund the tools.

    Other tools are Democrat politicians, GOP cucks, so-called “mainstream” media, the Deep$tate.

    Until the centers of $ellout power are identified, exposed, degraded, and discomfited, they will go on owning, funding, and deploying an arsenal of tools to use against populist/nationalist/Deplorables.

    • Marshall McLuhan said: ” Violence, whether spiritual or physical, is a quest for identity and the meaningful. The less identity, the more violence. ” So how do White people find identity without resorting to violence? First off, One thing I learned from traveling around the good old U. S. Of A. is that White identity is all over the place. Do you simply mean your a descendant of the people that built western civilization? If it’s that clear in your mind then your way ahead of the game. But human identity is rarely that easy. Which is why it always makes me laugh when people talk about the “Black community” So what about the “White community?” Well, that doesn’t exist either. We have to find community where we are. We have to build it with our own two hands with people we care about and trust. Identity is formed the same way. It’s an organic process that happens in a particular and unique location and never stops growing. And it’s not just what you want to be that matters, it’s what you don’t want to be as well. If there’s one thing I’ve learned in 66 years is, throw way the crap you don’t need and lighten your load.

    • I’ll be wondering all evening what comment was so over-the-top that even the wild Frip thought better of it

  11. Audacious Epigone said

    “For those who feel compelled to attend public protests and rallies, there are a hundred ways things can go wrong and only one way things can go right. To realize the latter, a person has to be willing to take one for the team and capture it happening on video….Andy Ngo managed to do everything right. He showed up with a camera–no inflammatory signs, no taunting behaviors, just a camera–and he was criminally assaulted and abused.”

    He has a point.

  12. Obviously Portland is a problem child. Andy unfortunately made a bad choice and he paid for it. He must have been separated and cut off from his people. Antifa, who was targeting him, made best on their threats. This is all very real theater and right now I’d say the majority of us are seething after seeing what was done to him and that old man. SOOO we have the event in DC coming up, and now tensions are going to be unreal. We are going to want blood and a win, and Antifa isn’t going to back down and lose face. In other words, we could have a disaster on our hands if this isn’t handled correctly by our side.
    1) If you’re going to DC this weekend, you’d better be suited up and ready for the mother of all battles.
    2) You’d better pray for numbers and only move as one coherent mass.
    3) Do not be divided by the police, who will be using Motti tactics on you (at the behest of Antifa).
    4) If the police are successful at dividing you, Antifa will swoop in on you and finish you off
    5) the media will be there to capture Antifa, seemingly invincible, mopping you up
    6) right now at this very moment, you’d best be organizing your people and you’d better be doing a better job than Antifa, who I guarantee you, right now at this moment is organizing to do battle with you
    7) Antifa is the master of organization and you’d better learn quick if you intend to win
    8) If it’s anything less than 3 to 1 you’re screwed and you’d better have a plan to get out of dodge
    9) Do you have any assets within Antifa? Have you even thought of this? Are you monitoring their websites and estimating their #’s? Do you even collect intelligence?

  13. What if there was a protest and only one side bothered to arrive? Imagine if hundreds of Antifa goons showed up ready for a fight and the only people there were cops, office workers and a few local journalists. With no boogeyman there to beat up and take the blame they would probably start attacking the cops and random locals. Then it would become the mayor’s problem real fast.

    Oh well, I’m seeing a bunch of people on Gab talking about showing up to the rally in DC ready to crack skulls or (more commonly) encouraging others to do so. It’s a loser’s game.

  14. I was telling them this yesterday on forums and YT. These idiots just keep setting themselves up for failure. These guys are the first ones to disavow us.
    What I found the most triggering was how they were kvetching about a “journalist” (the gay Asian)being attacked. WHAT? Never stop your enemy from doing your job for you! I hope Antifa beats the living daylights out of as many journalists who show up to these things.

    One thing the right never seems to learn is that street protests are only effective if the media is on your side. There is zero doubt in my mind that the “civil rights” activists of the 60s provoked every single beating they took. They did it so the press could run stories about the mean old cops beating up the noble activists.
    At best, you won’t make a fool of yourself or get beat up and nobody will know about it because the press is there to make you look bad. So the ONLY press is bad press. This is never going to change unless we create our own press and control it and it has large distribution.

  15. It is unclear to me just how far along things are towards taking our particular show on the road. I have retreated from pretty much all media other than the few echo-chamber websites which I wholeheartedly agree with. I have a bad feeling that the tipping point will be some black swan event and then things will go rapidly pear-shaped then dangerously kinetic. As Ole Remus says, “Stay away from crowds.” It is a rather simple matter for the more destructively savvy of toothless hillbillies to cut power and transportation connections to the blue hives. Let the dazzling urbanites fight things out amongst themselves. If the prevailing shitshow somehow manages to continue another 50 years there won’t be sufficient intellectual capacity in the trades to keep the lights on and the trains running, Idiocracy as a documentary. I presently enjoy my life with my wife and kids on our quiet lake, and even my job is somewhat insulated from the poz. So I am not really looking for a fight, but if the fight comes to me then woe onto whomever brings it.

  16. I am an older dissident right realist. I have never once thought participating in street theater was of any value what so ever. That does not preclude me from wanting to shove my fist down the throat of the nearest antifa pussy I can lay my hands on. Believe me they are all pussies. Having realized Conservative Inc. was just another false avenue of recourse it was easy to move past their kowtowing idiocy. Conservatives? What were they conserving? Every issue needs to be looked at through a prism of realism. If not the idiots we are drowning in will ride the wave of emotional subterfuge taking us with them down the road to ruin. We will lose our culture our identity and our liberty. I posted a comment on AmRen calling for the men of England to put a stop to the sexual grooming and rape of their young girls and women. I did not call for violence. I asked them to put a stop to it. Of course my comment was deleted for my own good I’m sure. AmRen has found my comments worthy of deletion a number of times over the years. It is a Red Badge Of Courage I wear proudly. Old guard new guard new wave bite me. If we want to know what needs to happen look for it through the lens of realism. We can handle the truth. No need to obfuscate it. Street theater is for idiots. Let them eat cake.

    • My comments get deleted all the time over there even when it’s to say “I agree Brother”…That to me is a clue on who is running things over there…Might just be someone not on our side…

  17. What people who attend these things are looking for is a way forward. There is a body of people who are restless And have a sense of urgency. There has to be a way to channel that.

  18. The Salem Witch trials abruptly ended when the wife of the Governor of MA was accused.

    Get antifa to attack their masters like say occupy Zucks mansion for immigrants and you’ll see a hilarious night of the long knives.

  19. Open public discourse of this manner should require all participants to be doxxed. Meaning no masks. This problem will vanish the second we adopt new laws that protect our citizens while protecting free speech. Yes, you can oppose but not while hiding your identity in the public square.

  20. I think Antifa numbers are very very small, just as so called white supremacists numbers are very very small. The whole act is empty kabuki theatre. I’ve never rubbed elbows in my neck of the woods in my whole life with either character. And I rub elbows with a shitload of folks daily. I think both sides here largely still live in mom’s basement.

  21. I’m a bit old for protests and brawls in the street, so I don’t have a personal stake in this issue. The closest I came to getting involved in Antifa instigated street theater was the January 2017 inauguration on the Mall in Washington, DC. I had planned to attend with a sign that said something like “Deplorables Local #237 Welcomes President Trump to the DMV,” but when I turned on the television in the morning I saw the reports of harassment, violence and rioting and decided, yeah….no.

    If the Bullshitter in Chief were to win next year, I wouldn’t attend for other reasons, but I tend to think it says something disturbing about the present and future of our country that a segment of young white Americans are eager to act like animals and that our media and government tacitly cheer them on.

    As a youth I attended the second inauguration of the hated Nixon (a smaller event on the other side of the Capitol them), and there was no rioting, despite our involvement in an unpopular war. The second “Bushitler” inauguration likewise was held during an increasingly unpopular war, and again, no violence.

    if the establishment were to carry Biden across the line in 2020, I would be unsurprised to Antifa violence on the Mall. A 2021 inauguration of the Orange Man could turn into a full scale riot.

    Whither this once proud nation?

    • The once proud nation is in the process of being taken apart from within and is now flushed half way down the bowl. It can’t wait forever for the perfect time to react, as it may be too little too late.

  22. America has already appropriated the German term Heimat for your own “Homeland”, so why not borrow our Freikorps and follow the leader*. 🙂

    *You all know the translation for leader.

    • I know enough German to translate and make fan subs for a few old movies – if I have a written text to work from, or, in the case of “Der Tunnel” (1933) a French version which I’d already translated. There’s one scene where the heroic engineer, trying to build a tunnel under the Atlantic from New York to Europe, has to face down a crowd of rebellious workers. In his speech, he talks a lot about their struggle, using, of course, the word “Kampf”. My husband started making some cracks about that word, and I said, “It’s a perfectly good word! It just means ‘struggle’, and he’s telling them that they have a hard life and a hard job, but he’s right there with them.” Then Dean began his own version of the speech: “Work is a struggle! Life is a struggle! Why, let me tell you about MY struggle!” Then the crowd would moan, as the hero goes on ranting for another 2 hours.

  23. What kills me is that these clowns walk around in the open. They barely bother to disguise their identities — there are lots of pictures of easily identifiable people out there on the internet, and of course the type of person who would go to an “Antifa” activity must, necessarily, post allllll about it on social media. They know the police and judiciary are on their side, of course, but one would think that they’d at least have *some* fear of being jumped in a dark alley by the “fascists” they claim are everywhere in America…. but they don’t. I wonder why they even bother — they’ve already won.

  24. I would just point out that all this holds only under conditions of a media cartel firmly in hostile hands.

    If – Big If – the stranglehold on the mass media is every broke (say by a Don Jr-headed Trump Network) nonviolent protesters getting beaten becomes an effective weapon with which to shatter the Enemy’s moral posture.

    • One of the main reasons the Liberal/Left has been so successful is years of patient steady work using very potent methods, tactics and rhetoric to achieve their goals. sense the French revolution the dark side have had thousands of brilliant thinkers and millions of dedicated individuals striving to transforming the west into an ultra-egaliterian socialist paradise. In the mean time the liberals and American Christian Progressives built the bureaucracy that gave the people what they wanted, liberty and safety at the same time. ( Which is an impossible to achieve contradiction.) It also gave the left the infrastructure to commandeer to use for there projects which is just what happen before the french revolution. See Alexis de Tocqueville. So whatever white people build in the future it won’t be the old western civilization. Nicolás Gómez Dávila said something like ” A reactionary doesn’t want to necessarily preserve the old institutions but the spiritual foundations the built them.” So there ya go, “It’s a Long Way to Tipperary.”

  25. This whole discussion of tactics seems to me predicated on the erroneous notion that our current strategy – fighting meme wars, anonymously – isn’t working. The reason they let Antifa – white kids – run berserk in the streets, is exactly because we’re winning so bigly. They’re burning down their own communications platforms because they fear us so much.

    I figure we should stick to a winning formula: don’t give them targets to concentrate their superior firepower on, stay online, stay anonymous and mock, mock mock! Humor is the most effective tool against tyranny, not pompously and self-righteously waving placards or establishing social clubs or political parties. No paroles, no doctrines, no theory and most importantly: no organisations they can target. I even get leery when Jared Taylor asks for my email “in case our website closes and we need to find you”.

    • Successful Leaderless Resistance

      by Louis Beam

      1. Avoid conspiracy plots
      2. Reject feeble-minded malcontents
      3. Insist upon quality of the participants
      4. Avoid all contact with the news media
      5. Camouflage

        • Well Mr. FBI agent, you’ll have to use your imagination. But as an alternative to violent resistance, read the article Drop Your Weapons—When And Why Civil Resistance Works by Erica Chenoweth and Maria J. Stephens.

          Nonviolent resistance can be more effective than violent resistance because:
          1. Violent resistance can attract the wrong type of people into your group, people who would make very poor leaders if you succeed.
          2. Violent resistance can be practiced only by military age men age 14 to 50. Nonviolent resistance can be practiced by everyone, male and female, from toddlers to the elderly.

          • 2x likely to succeed.
          • Increased chances of democratic rule.
          • Attracts a larger group of participants.
          • 50% chance of success during a violent crackdown. Violent campaigns have a 20% chance.
          • 4x more likely to transition to democracy, even if the movement fails, than movements using violence at the outset.
          • Require less outside help.

          • Reinforce military power and usually result in mass atrocities.
          • Result in democracy in 5 years only 4% of the time.
          • Result in civil war in 10 years 50% of the time.

          1. Enjoy mass participation: instead of only men of military age, the participants can be women, professionals, religious figures, government workers, elderly, children. Harder to shoot down a group of old women and kids than a bunch of young men with guns. The larger and more diverse the group, the better chance of success.

          2. Produce regime defections: people on the other side are more likely to see your viewpoint and join you if you’re not shooting up the place.

          3. Use flexible tactics: what works for one group might not work for another.

          “Mass demonstration represents the endgame of a much longer nonviolent campaign.”

  26. There is one other aspect. Such things deligitimize the Police and Government on the right. It may encourage the left to know the cops, while #BlackLivesMatter, won’t come to save anyone being attacked. There is no rule of law. No Law and Order. The police will just stand there and watch.

    There is still a trace of faith on the right that wants to play by the rules and believes in law and justice. Trump broke it halfway. This is eroding the rest.

    The police aren’t there to enforce the law, they aren’t there to protect you, they are there to come at 2am with flashbangs to take your guns and your kids into Foster Care for badthink. While the gay couple next door is filming their rape of their adopted child.

    There is power in pictures and memes. Andy Ngo is shocking and waking up people on the right, much as that dog picture v.s. the civil rights boy (totally fake, see Malcolm Gladwell’s revisionist history).

    • Police seem to be a reflection of the power structure at their locale. That’s where their orders come from.

    • tz1: “The police aren’t there to enforce the law, they aren’t there to protect you, they are there to come at 2am with flashbangs to take your guns and your kids into Foster Care for badthink.”

      This is the most difficult thing for a lot of older people to accept. When you were raised to obey the law and turn to the nice, White policeman for help it’s a big break to instead view them as armed agents of the state and an enemy to political dissidents. I accepted this some years ago and even my husband (army brat ) has gradually come to accept they’re not on our side. This is one thing I think some normie minds could be changed on. People have to accept we are no longer a “nation of laws,” if we ever were.

      • I think that part of it is that people are accustomed to picking a side in a two-sided contest. Kind of like how people root for one team over the other in sports. So, when some thug who “dindu nuffin” gets shot by the police, we naturally root for the cops over BLM when the rioting starts. We are essentially right in doing this. I’m certainly not advocating for the dindus. But we need to remember that the police are really not our friends. A lot of cops are great guys individually, but they are going to obey orders and do the bidding of their masters. And in most cases, they won’t hesitate to turn their guns on us.

  27. I genuinely don’t understand your thinking on this matter. Your views summed up:
    1. If we get beaten up: Antifa in emboldened. Complete own goal. Absolute cuckery.
    2. If we beat them up: the Media have a field day. Complete own goal. Absolute cuckery.
    I don’t see how making ourselves invisible and retreating into the shadows is going to help.

    Last spring, on the Paul Ramsey podcast, you said two interesting things (paraphrasing):
    -“a good tactic is one your people enjoy”.
    – “good activism energizes your own and demoralizes the other side”.
    The fact is that many of us would enjoy nothing more than seeing Antifa given a taste of their own medicine. Additionally, given that most Antifas are lanky Starbucks hipsters masquerading as fearless partisans, whose bravery is proportional to their police protection, I don’t see how real life medical repercussions for their larping would boost for their morale. Plus nudging them into increasingly indefensible acts accrues to our benefit. One day they may go too far and spook their political and judicial benefactors. That will not come about without constant goading and prodding. Antifa’s weakness is that they have no self-control and their members are unstable man-children with no sense of boundaries. Why not play to that weakness?

    The main reality behind street activism in the West since at least the Veterans’ Bonus March of 1932 is that the general public takes the side of the downtrodden over the brutes when blood is shed. By your own reasoning, whenever Blacks were sprayed with hoses and had dogs let loose on them, they were being optics cucks.

    The rationale behind mixing it up with Antifa circa early 2017 was threefold: deny the left monopoly of the streets, show silent dissidents they were not alone in their revulsion, show the left they would be contested on their own turf, that their strongholds were not safe havens. It forced into the open what wasn’t clear at the time, which was that local governments and courts would throw in with them and act as their enforcers, protectors and cleaner-uppers, even when the violence was egregious and one-sided. That realization alone was a huge win. Everything we do should ideally have the effect of discrediting compromised institutions. Think of the countless previously noncommittal people who had the scales fall from their eyes in 2016 about media bias.

    • The question no one ever answers: “When will the Right/Conservatives/Dissident Right Republicans/Trads/whatever-the-hell-you-want-to-call-them fight back?” Because right now the Left is kicking their asses. At least Ted Cruz is making noise about the queer mayor of PDX and its so-called police force. Nothing from Trump’s DOJ yet – of course.

      • Ted & Rand Paul are very good at making noise but never accomplishing anything. TruCon vaporware. They both virtue-signal for votes but never disrupt their paymasters’ agenda. Lyin’ Ted worked with Gillibrand on the awful military sex harassment legislation.

      • Compared to the blue collar workers who fought Pinkerton men and the National Guard in all out battles in the first parts of the 20th century for rights and pay, the average conservative/alt-right male is a non-entity

        Do I see them doing a Athen’s Georgia in this day and age? Hell no.

        Look at the shape of the alt-right. It has no organization, no platform, no nothing. It’s not even a movement anymore.

        I have very little hope if push comes to shove that the average white males, especially the so-called intellectuals will just happily board some box car to a incinerator rather than fight.

        • The shape of the alt-right?
          Sir, I’ll have you know you are dealing with the finest bunch of grifters, hornswooglers and flimflamming mountebanks ever assembled. The best feds informants. The pettiest doxxers. The cattiest tradthots. Our internet feuds alone burn with the intensity of a thousand suns.
          Our strength is not measured in men, but in self-help books, supplements lines and dubious go-fund-mes for washed-up carnival barkers eager to reinvent themselves.
          Can I interest you in a used bowflex? Can’t take back your country if you don’t even lift, bro.

  28. I think zman has provided very sound advice in regards to what we should not do. I have been thinking about what we *should do* and I have an idea that I would like to throw out here.

    The left have constructed a complete moral and political order out of a series of short, pithy insults: racist, bigot, homophobe, islamophobe, xenophobe, fascist. These accusations, mostly baseless, have been remarkably successful in knocking down opposition like nine pins. It’s a devilish but brilliant rhetorical tactic.

    We need our own rhetorical tool and I’m not talking about DR3 which we know doesn’t work and never will. But I suggest that we use the term “anti-white”. Smear it around liberally (scuse pun) and regardless of whether it is justified or not. Let’s face it, in most cases it will be justified. So accuse EVERYONE.

    Pro-immigration – you’re just anti-white
    Global warming – you’re just anti-white
    Anti-fascist – you’re just anti-white
    Trannyism – you’re just anti-white
    Liberal – codeword for anti-white
    Celebrate diversity – you’re just anti-white

    Accuse, accuse and accuse again. Make sure the term reaches every eyeball and every ear until it starts falling from every mouth.

    Now, there are two possible responses. Either they deny that they are anti-white and that is good because it means that they are on the back foot. Then double-down and accuse them again. Or they can admit it which is even better because the truth is out there for every normie to see and hear.

    Think back to when you first heard the term “racist”. Has anyone ever admitted to being a racist when accused? No, they strenuously deny it and those denials only serve to get the word more firmly planted in the lexicon and paralyse everyone like spider venom.

    So let’s learn from that. What started as a malevolent and hissed accusation ends up becoming the highest political and moral virtue. The lefties have provided us with a blueprint for political success so let’s pick it up and run with it.

    • Like the idea. “Anti-white” sounds a little off. Too easy to reframe, it seems.

      Consider a similar claim: “You’re just anti-feminist.” If someone called you that, it would be easy to reframe along the lines of, “I am just against the abuses of feminism, etc.” Compare that with, “You’re a misogynist.” That claim is more likely to elicit a defensive response along the lines of, “No, I don’t hate women…”

      So, maybe something more like, “You just really don’t like white people, do you?” Or, “Why do you hate white people?” That sort of thing connects the claim of bad behavior (hatred or dislike) with a sympathetic target of the bad behavior (people).

      Just a thought.

  29. Two points…..

    Somebody made the comment that we need need to play the long game and nothing is to be had be engaging them in PDX. I would say your right but….Id sure as hell feel better if there was a long game to be had. As a career military guy, I plan everything…even if its long term. I don’t think the Right has a plan. Con Inc does….give ground, whine and make a shit ton of money, all the while getting their gold star and cookie from their favoirite lib media outlet.

    My other point. In Iraq we spent considerable time killing the smart folks running the insurgency. These guys still screwed up all the time and eventually through share force of will and the fact that we could “out G the G” … we outlasted(killed0 and created a rough peace. The ANTIFA dudes are neither smart nor courageous. What they have is the media, financial backing and an enemy that by and large refuses to engage. They’re not going away, they suffer no losses. We won’t be successful unless they do. Making them look bad is a win, sueing their backers is a win…jailing is a win. Thats what we need. We gotta remove pieces. This needs to be painful.

    The neaderthal in me would much prefer to rent a chopper and do gun runs up and down one of their big protests….I’d feel better….might not accomplish much…gun rights would erode further…but Id friggen feel better. In any event they need to get kicked in the teeth and the wallet.

    • Mass slaughter of our enemies is fantasy. However, targeted removal campaigns at an appropriate historical juncture, where we discern, de-person and “terminate” select Antifa leadership needs to be considered. Simply waiting for these thugs to grievously injure or murder us and our families while LEOs stand down is unacceptable to some of us. There may be a time when we need to negate the threat directly, proactively, and I hope you will share your military talents at a local level.

    • The Plan…yes, therein is a core element that’s missing. I seem to find many of the same spirit online, and shared nomenclature more and more, but I don’t see strategy emerging (yet) from what appears a shared philosophy.
      Long game always include strategic hits in the here and now. Until the DR thinks more cohesively, most actions we take at best are neutral value.
      I’m still skeptical of working against the system from within the system (public shame, litigation, etc) but I see the logic of your statement. We’ve got to start somewhere…and what’s frustrating is somewhere is nebulous.

    • Mountaindogsix……Long game: Identify what NOT to do, i.e. They throw the bone and we catch it, run around and bark. It’s still their game.

      Nattered on about throwing sand in the gears to gum up the works…they don’t see it coming…a moment of chaos..but what does that look like. No idea. We’re not talking literally Hayduke and the heavy equipment. Yet.

      We don’t have a long game…..just figuring out what not to do.

      Possibly subversively white pilling your immediate circle by pointing out the others are tribes advocating for their stuff and power…we should too.

      If you want to take on Antifa as a Normie…be my guest. If you engage Antifa waving around a bloody Nazi flag or you are a poof, wave a poof flag and get trounced, Normie will experience some cognitive dissonance but mostly doesn’t identify with. Talk about reparations and abortion on your 1-year old to induce eyeball rolling.

      We are in WAITING MODE. You have a plan? You may fire when ready, Gridley.

  30. The Antifas need to beat up someone. If there is no one from “our” side out there, they will beat up the normies. I don’t see how that turn of events hurts our side. Normies can feel quiet anger as well.

  31. Broadly agree with the sentiment, but the left -is- where you want to be for activism. Whether to be a legit participant or a subversive is up to the individual in question. It should go without saying that being nominally illiberal or rightist in public is bad for your wellbeing now and will only get worse.

    There may be a time when the political right is useful, but that has yet to materialize. Until then, the left’s internal struggles are the sum total meaningful politics in your country.

    • Genuine question: In precisely what manner was this protest “successful”?

      It appears that the legislature is moving full steam ahead with the proposed carbon tax law.

  32. Begrudgingly Zman is right. Spicy-time’s appeal is the speed at which winners and losers are identified I think. Long-game thinking, and the discipline to stick to it, is demanded here. But bloody street theatre is primally appealing, even if it’s fantasy!

  33. Frankly, there should be zero sympathy for the people getting beaten at these events,

    Exactly the logic which applies to people who die attempting to cross into the USA, by the way. Even more horrific are those who kill their own children in the process.

    • But the border crossings are “illegal”. The journalist and the older guy that were attacked were not doing anything illegal. They showed poor judgement by putting themselves in harm’s way and perhaps not expecting to be attacked. I can’t agree with the zero sympathy remark.

    • I have friends who have trained in the martial arts for decades with rather large (legal) gun collections. They wouldn’t go near one of these protests (aka riots) if you paid them. And they’d slap me silly if they knew I planned to attend one. Nothing good can happen when you’re provoked to violence while cameras record everything.

  34. Portland. What a miserable clown colony of dirt people and self-loathing goodwhite xenophiles.

    While I admire the ability to conjure up a network of good old boys in such a prog wasteland, its all for not if it amounts to nothing more than B roll for commie agitprop.

    I know its hard to cede ground, especially that which has likely been etched with ones family history.

    But in a land of blood and soil, efforts to reclaim our land should heed those words carefully and even literally. PDX is foreign soil at this point. Focus on the land you have and the blood you share.

    I say this after having fled the west coast myself. A land that my parents’ families helped settle. But enough romance. A dissident is displaced or occupied, in either case, his strategy must consider the harsh reality before him.

    Better to fortify land and brothers-in-arms beyond the gates of sodom and moloch than to donnybrook for fifteen minutes of insta-fame on Burnside avenue among the walking dead of the brave new world.

    If a real fight is to be had you can be sure the fascists and vibrant locusts will descend from the towers of gibs and come for your harvest. So you will have your long winter to earn your stripes.

    If by some miracle this doesn’t come to pass, the paved projects of progress can still be isolated and starved into submission like so many tumors in the flesh of our nation. But only if our blood and soil survives in those surrounds and hollers.

    Also, ‘proud boys’ is some kind of retarded branding.

    Ok off my high horse for now. I just hate seeing potentially good men wasted on fame whoring street theater in some prog armpit when we have such a long way to go before men can meet, discuss, and coordinate in places that haven’t fully turned.

    • As someone with neither biological nor emotional ties to Portland, let me say this: every time the Progs feel challenged in their own ballpit, every time they sense their control isn’t total, they escalate the madness and tighten the screws, prompting more of the remaining sane denizens to bug out. If we can’t take over the shop, let’s at least help them make the window as seedy and unappealing as possible. Portland is lost, but it’s nowhere near the model bizarro wasteland it could be, if we can help it.

      • True in spirit but in practice I question whether the trade-offs are worth it.

        While these two fronts may not be mutually exclusive in strategy, when it comes to allocation of resources in tactics I’d just assume invest in things that bolster the surrounds and innoculate against shitlib infectious entryism by those fleeing the obvious outcome of their poisonous belief system and subsequent policies.

        They left are cannibals by nature; the religion demands as much. Simply removing the hosts (sane, rational normies) is enough.

        I think we have given enough bodies to the siren call of the morlocks. Let them eat their own.

        But yeah, there is plenty that can be done to accelerate. Street fights are pretty far sown on that list tho. For now perhaps. But those boys could do a lot of damage from the shadows, saving themselves for the main event.

    • “I say this after having fled the west coast myself. A land that my parents’ families helped settle. But enough romance. A dissident is displaced or occupied, in either case, his strategy must consider the harsh reality before him.

      Better to fortify land and brothers-in-arms beyond the gates of sodom and moloch than to donnybrook for fifteen minutes of insta-fame on Burnside avenue among the walking dead of the brave new world.”

      Yep…well said! Am with you Brother and our experience and paths are close. Left behind 100 years of ancestors in Bay Area. Move Beyond the Gates of Sodom.

    • I kind of like Gavin and The Proud Boys but I do agree, their name sounds like an opening band for The Village People. The worst naming since Emperor Pupienus Maximus in 238AD.

  35. It’s only a matter of time before Antifa doxx our prominent members and visit them at work, church and home with violent intentions. Z man, for example, may be outted by an advertising intern who learns his identity from the ad agreement or accounting. Are we prepared to deal outnumbered by assailants with of a mind to douse us with gasoline in the parking lot?

    • Situational awareness, empty hand fighting, willingness to use improvised weapons, and firearms are the way to go. Set up a disaster preparedness group with your buddies. Those same connections can easily be repurposed.

  36. Z’s correct here – public protests in Current Year Weimerica are putting the cart before the horse. They’re only a potential net positive if both local law enforcement and the judiciary are on your side, and that requires we vote with our feet and take charge of our local communities, along with enjoying significant statewide clout. Unless and until we execute our own “Free State” movement, they’re too risky for the participants for too little potential reward.

    Mark Collett from the UK’s appearance last week on FTN meshes well here. He emphasized that the Wignat 1.0 approach is not “activism,” it’s LARP’ing and its harmful to the cause. He told Our Guys to dress and speak like normies, not skinheads & yobs, noting that in a local meet up in Leeds, the 20 or so “prospects” were very receptive to our ideas and arguments, but essentially told him the thing they’d feared was meeting a bunch of Alex Jones types and skins with Doc Martens.

    Identity Europa and the other mature and electorally influential identitarian movements in Europe got there by talking and looking like serious people, not flashing the fash & spouting vanguard memes like a right-wing version of a pride parade freakshow. They’re the role models we need to emulate.

    • “electorally influential identitarian movement”

      THIS is the key point to today’s discussion. Our Thing must actually get some people into political seats of power if we want to get our agenda enacted.

      Some may say, “But but but … Firewire, it is too hard to do that. ”

      Hogwash. A (very) lefty friend of mine retired from mountain bike racing and got bored so she got herself appointed to a non-elected position in an advisory board to the county commissioners. Then, a short time later, she ran for commissioner. Lost the election. Ran again 2 years later and won. Served two terms and stood for State Representative. Won that. Performed yeoman’s service in the statehouse, passing many good things and a few real stinkers. Two terms. Stood for U.S. Representative. Lost that election. Now she is running again for the 2020 election and is looking strong.

      All this over the course of about 12 years. Plus, she is a very blue person in one of the reddest corners of the state.

      If Our Thing can’t produce people willing to do that sort of ladder climbing then we will continue to be stuck on the outside looking in.

  37. The great weakness of our side, is that even as our ship founders, we continue to expend energy harping on those whose methods of bailing we deem disreputable.

    Look at the other side. One of theirs could roast babies over a campfire in Times Square and there would not be a single critical syllable uttered.

    Limiting your tactics or area of operations to those the enemy has decreed acceptable is not a winning formula.
    Engaging only in battles you know 100% you can win, means never engaging.

    The eager young men who rush out to “do something” in places like Charlottesville and Portland are those you will want at your back in the fullness of time. Do not disparage them. If you have the means, find way to privately offer counsel on more efficient methods. Accept that they may not listen. And understand that you don’t make your side stronger by tearing it down.

    • Sounds like Bush’s fly-paper strategy – fight them “over there” so we don’t fight them “over here.” How did that work out? Who is stuck in the quagmire? Seems we were the flies.

      • I am truly puzzled by your response. I make no suggestions on how or where to fight. I simply suggest that we refrain from criticism of those that do chose to fight, no matter how, or where.

        • Not sure why you are puzzled.

          The whole point of this post is to criticize suicidal stupidity – the how and the where. Charlottesville and Portland are examples of suicidal how and where. By not criticizing tactics such as Charlottesville and Portland, it encourages suicidal stupidity. You may want these guys at your back when the time comes, but they can not be at your back when the time comes if they have been jailed or killed before that time has come.

          That time has not yet come.

  38. The police could shut down antifa in a split second if they wanted to. They don’t. Instead they have been ordered to act as their bodyguards. I understand why our people relish the opportunity to clean the antifa clocks but zman is right. You are not taking on antifa, you are up against their political, media and financial handlers. In a street confrontation, the cops will be turned on us not antifa.

    • You are not taking on antifa, you are up against their political, media and financial handlers.

      Notice Antifa does not go to Podunk, Texas. Home turf is everything.

      • Exactly. They can only operate in places where they have police and political protection.

        • If this was the Obama administration and mayors and police departments were coordinating with right wing gangs to violently attack Obama supporters, those mayors and policemen would be sitting in prison cells right now. Trump won’t even acknowledge this politically motivated violence with a Tweet.

          • @JudgeSmails: Agreed. Is it because Trump doesn’t much know what he is doing, or because he literally cannot get the FBI to investigate and arrest them? Possibly some linear combination of both, I suppose.

          • The latter I think. Seems that the entire machinery of state is against him. Without an apparatus, there is not much that even the strongest king can achieve.

  39. People don’t seem to notice the obvious, viz. how Trump won in 2016. Visible shows of strength don’t work for the DR, but memes and black humor do. Trump won in no small part because he was funnier than the Sea Hag. The iron law of American politics is: Bugs Bunny /always/ defeats Elmer Fudd. By marching through the streets and protesting in wee tiny pathetic numbers and then getting railed by far more numerous black bloc, the Right allows itself to be painted as Elmer Fudd.

    That is the primal error.

    Part of the physiological way that humor works on humans is, humor presents Truth in a puzzle-like format, and when you solve or complete the puzzle, you “get” the joke by realizing the truth on your own, whereby you are rewarded with a dopamine hit. Comedians are drug dealers, and the drug they sell is manufactured by your brain. The point is that the dopamine Rush is correlated with uncovering the truth. And, just as the best con men allow the mark to think he thought of the idea himself, the best way to convey the truth is to let the hearer think he put two and two together himself.

    Q: Why is aspirin always white?
    A: Because it works.

    Q: What is the difference between a black man and a pizza?
    A: The pizza can feed a family of four.

    And so on.

    Violence or even shows of strength or numbers (giggle) are never going to work, because the Right doesn’t come out in numbers, they have better things to do.

    But disingenuous street theatre with a comedic touch, done in a purely civilian, non-confrontational way, can make a point in public while not admitting that it’s making a point. The trick is to not let on you’re doing it on purpose, and let the public figure out the point themselves.

    Have fun. And since the numbers being what they are, you’ll never have fun by using violence, you must have fun by being funny instead.

    • “Buggs Bunny always defeats Elmer Fudd.”

      Boom. That’s what Scott Adams (before he was a Cernovitch-tier Trump shill) called a linguistic kill shot. It’s short, it’s funny, and it’s memorable. Well done.

    • Exactly.

      Get a dozen or so people dressed up in clown suits with horns.

      Go to an Antifah rally and honk those horns loudly. You’ll get told to stop.

      Say something really incendiary to whichever Antifah approaches you.

      Taunt them until they take the bait.

      When they come after you run into the crowd of normies – or run into a restaurant full of families.

      You might even get the hell beat out you. But everybody will be asking why those bad men in black hoodies are beating the hell out of a few clowns.

      Bugs Bunny did always win against Elmer Fudd. But he also taunted the hell out of him before he won.

  40. 1. With the exception of Berkeley and one of the early scuffles in Portland, these events leave us looking silly. If you want to do a public event, hold either a Trump or a free speech rally. Anything overtly pro-white gets labeled as Nazism. The media will still call you Nazis anyway, but the average normie white will tune it out unless given a reason otherwise.

    2. We do need to take public pro white action. Flash mobs and other disruptions are the way to go. Public events announced in advance give our enemies time to organize. Drag queen story hour in your area? Show up with some buddies in clown suits and a megaphone. Spend less than 10 minutes at the objective. You will get way more press and attention and less chance of injury or a criminal record.

    • But some of us are not Trumptards and are explicitly pro White. F&%%k the normies at this point. I’m a 60 year old woman and I don’t plan or want to live forever – my goal is a White nation for my White sons.

      • Wow….we’re about the same geological era. You go with your bad marble body in shape self! At our age gotta watch for continental drift.

        • We three from the same geological era, born at the end of the Baby Boom. Ha ha!

      • Like I said, explicitly pro-white action is fine. Do not give the enemy a stationary target though.

  41. I’m against street protests where it’s easy to get painted as bad guys or losers, but the footage of antifa throwing concrete-laced milkshakes at Andy Ngo and the beating of the old white guy made one group look bad and disgusting in Normieland: Antifa.

  42. I guess my question is “when will we be there”. Z’s point is solid but do we risk giving over to much to the ANTIFA shitbags. They don’t do this stuff in Texas because our cops won’t stand for it but the longer it goes, this shit will eventually seep into red territory…most like Austin or Harris County (Houston). Its hard to watch a bunch of neckbeards in hoodies beating up law abiding citizens and closing streets with the goddam cops standing there. I become more convinced that we’re experiencing a second civil war in all but name and bullets. I also understand the off the radar approach but the more ground we give the more end end up fighting a guerilla war instead of the more even playing field we enjoy now. It would be great if these people and their activities were limited to the coasts and cities like portland but as more of them export themselves to fly over country, the more we’ll see it in our own backyards. I look forward to the rest of the comments. The blog has definitly opened my eyes to where things are going here.

    • Wars are won on public opinion – probably more than on ANYTHING else.

      So I get Zman’s point about not fighting them in the streets. But I also think it’s why just completely holding back isn’t the right thing either.

      That’s why the next time I see the two gay guys my wife knows – I’ll somehow work into the conversation:

      ” Hey – did you guys hear about that guy out in Oregon who got badly beaten? From what I hear he was just covering an Antifah rally and they targeted him and beat the hell out of him because he’s gay”

      It’s why I also think that Antifah needs to be maneuvered into committing their own Kate Steinle moment. I figure maybe a really old couple gets beatdown and killed by a raging Antifah mob. Or probably better yet a young mom with a couple of kids. Young mom dead, one kid dead – other kid haunted by nightmares and full of cuts and bruises so the nightly news has something to broadcast for a couple of weeks.

      That’s how you get public opinion on your side. Or at the very least : how you set public opinion against Antifah.

      Somewhere during all of the internet debate over Donald Trump announcing his candidacy and making the immigration thing a front and center topic – I offered up the opinion that what Trump really needed was a very prominent illegal immigrant committed death of a sympathetic victim. I figured a young woman would probably do it.

      The fates delivered Kate Steinle.

      Antifah is dumb enough to commit something truly heinous. Just fighting them in the streets is dumb. They need to be enticed into committing acts that bring their own demise. Get the gays all riled up. Maybe they’ll protest at the next Antifah rally – the gays love to protest shit. Dress up all fruity and join the gay crowd. Spread rumours that somebody got beat up on their way there by some black clad Antifah types. Once everybody’s together throw something from the crowd of gays into the Antifah mob.

      Beat feet when the violence starts.

      Make sure you have people to record it all and dump it immediately onto the internet so the local TV crews come looking for the footage.

      Rinse and repeat until Antifah burns themselves down.

      Sun Tzu was a wise man.

      • so the nightly news has something to broadcast for a couple of weeks

        Therein lies the fly in your ointment. Which nightly news channel will broadcast that for a second, much less a couple of weeks?

        Sun Tzu also said if you know yourself and your enemy, you win. Your suggestion fails the second part.

  43. That Asian guy you have no sympathy for wasn’t even protesting, he was just filming the Antifa and was recognized as a journalist who had previously given them some unfavorable coverage.

    Let me get this right…..anti-left journalists should stop reporting negatively on the left, because it might result in leftist violence and lead to poor optics for the right?

    What then would a keyboard pounder like yourself have to blog about?

    This is like National Review 2.0 logic:

    Anytime the left forcefully pushes in an area, the right must surrender. To fight would just make us look bad.

    • The gay Asian is not on my team. Like the CivNats, his loyalty lies with the other team.

      • Enemy of my enemy is my friend.

        Ok – I will grant you maybe not so much for a gay Asian.

        But you’re still better off if your enemies are not joined at the hip. And making it so that Antifah is going around beating the crap out of gay Asians – and then expanding into beating gays of all the other variations – is something I can’t see being anything but positive for “our side”.

        Because it splits up all those cobbled together leftist factions – and injects a huge dose of “WTF do I do now – my friends are all beating the crap out of each other!!” – into the whole leftist coalition.

        What I’m waiting for is Antifah beating up and either seriously injuring or even killing something like a young hipster mother just out walking her kids.

        Even if the mainstream press doesn’t give it full coverage – it will still get out there.

        Let’s you and him fight.

        Or maybe now it’s : Let’s you and ze and zir fight !

      • Wisely said.

        I take some umbrage with you passivism though as sooner or later, the young men are going to want, nay demand action.

        We are mostly old or middle aged and so sitting it out , planning, scheming, carping and complaining is natural for us.

        Young guys need stuff to do. Until we can ;earn to be well oiled and organized we need to keep the young men doing stuff or they will all go home and play Fortnite

        We can keep the nerd guys busy same as Antifa does, researching the enemy and his social networks, friends and allies

        the planners and plotters can be making accountability lists (as WRSA says Do you know the Commies in your AO?) and researching tactics

        The face people staying under the radar , keeping traps shut and doing the political stuff where possible

        But in the end the action guys need something to do, Anti Communist Gun Club. Karate and Jujitsu Lessons something to do that is physical but avoids conflict

        The obvious goal is to avoid war but those who want peace must prepare for it

        • Since I’m writing from behind the American Iron Curtain…a couple observations. The lefties around here seem to live at a fever pitch–looking for Nate Forrest and Hitler under their beds each night. Several months back some Identity Europa stickers were put up at a local community college and they all went berserk. Locally we ran a campaign against the lefty slate in the town elections. They went berserk. Trump lives in their heads rent free. You can’t live at General Quarters endlessly. It’s wearing and demoralizing. Besides quiet organizing, effort should be spent stirring the lefty anthill and wearing them down. Nothing bothers them more than thinking we’re behind every tree.

          • Nothing bothers them more than thinking we’re behind every tree.

            Let them know we have infiltrated their institutions and communities. Back it up with action. Others can go save the trees.

            Infiltrate them. Betray them. It’s what (((they))) have always done to us because it is effective.

    • Maybe he’s saying something more like, don’t stupidly martyr yourself for the cause when doing so is perceived only as a villainous act by everyone else. It’s scoring a point against your own team. We don’t have the well-oiled media propaganda machine on our side; anything media/elite do not like will be shown to the world as something that is evil.

    • I agree this is difficult. The yellow vest protests in Paris are peaceful and have continued apace for several months now – these appear to have been spontaneously generated by grassroots activism and are (for the most part) from the bottom up. There have been attacks on the protestors, but they keep showing up every weekend in sizeable numbers, even if they get no coverage in the press.

      I suppose what Z man is saying is that we on the right, when it is time for us to hit the streets, we will. But it has to be like that or it won’t work. Attempts to organize from the top down is what the left does, and has always done. The only way we can protest on the right effectively is if it happens organically.

      Of course, there is one more point that we have learned – once we start organically protesting peacefully (e.g., the tea party revolt), the progressive handlers will immediately try to co-opt and take over. And our own supposed leaders will condemn us (like McConnell did, whom I have never forgiven). So Zman is right, we have a lot more work to do before we can take to the streets effectively. Our job is to awaken normies, throw sand in the gears, etc. Leave the street theater for others – it is not time.

      • It’s not really that difficult.

        Thinking you’re going to somehow “win” in the streets is not very bright.

        If however you’re looking to just inflict pain on Antifah members – then a different strategy is needed. It’s long been a tactic of leftie protestors to pull in young naive students and others – and stick them in the front of whatever protest march they’re engaging in. The youngsters then get the crap beat out of them by the police – and the lefties gain more converts because the police just created more radicals for them.

        In the early 80’s I worked at a printing plant. A few years before that the entire factory workforce had gone out on strike. My mother had worked there for years. The owner just hired new people to replace the strikers. This of course didn’t sit well with the striking union members – and they started doing things like wrecking the new worker’s cars – and beating them up as they were leaving work. The new workers (many of whom were still there when I started working there) – knew that getting in brawls in the parking lot wasn’t likely to go over well. The police seemed to be on the side of the union – so it was a no win to just brawl back.

        What they did was somehow figure out where certain key union workers lived ( I bet mgmt quietly told them) – and would go and wait for them as they were leaving in the morning – or coming home at night – and 3 or 4 guys would jump one of these union guys and beat the hell out of him. They made a point of only picking the worst ones – who had engaged in all of the violence.

        That made the point pretty well. And once the most violent union members were culled from the crowd – the entire strike thing petered out in relatively short order after that.

        And this was the late 70’s – so the ability of the police to track down ” 4 guys in ski masks” – was pretty non-existent.

        So stick the dumbies out in front of the Antifah crowds as bait. Antifah will obligingly beat the hell out of them. Now you know who the violent ones are – and you’ll likely identify the leaders as well.

        I’m sure 4Chan can give some tips on tracking down where these people live. I believe they’ve already done a lot of the legwork.

        If you’re looking to beat the hell out of somebody – that’s the way to do it. Up close and personal and with overwhelming 4 on 1 force. Having 4 masked men show up in individual Antifah apartments in the middle of the night with pieces of heavy gauge electrical cable and baseball bats to administer an attitude adjustment is going to be far more effective in getting rid of Antifah than taking them on in the streets.

        Not that I would condone this. It’s just an observation of what I’ve seen work in the past.

    • If you’re at TheZMan blog, you’ve been plinking around in dissident politics for a bit. Where did you even pick up the idea journos are ever on your side?

      • So I get voted down by someone butt blasted. I’m legit curious – in my time in the military and doing military contracting, embedded journos were at best a PITA, and worst agents of subversion. The Michael Hastings and General Stanley McChrystal drama is a pertinent example. An openly-homosexual slant-eye journo…I mean, after Gaving McInnes, after Milo, how many red flags does a guy have to wave to say “we’re not on the same team”?

  44. What drives these kinds of things (street protests) is a passion to “do something” and not just sit around whining. “Take action” is wired into our DNA, and that urge won’t go away easily. And “taking to the streets” is a popular option largely because it is a convenient way to find a fight; and for many, throwing fists is a great way to relieve pent up stress.

    A better (and smarter) way to relieve stress is to go for a run or chop wood in the backyard with a long handle axe. As a side benefit, the latter skill may come in handy one day and it will make your upper body quite strong.

    • TomA – well said. I relieve my frustration and stress (brought on by living in a multicultural/SJW suburb of DFW instead of the rural Ozarks I’d prefer) by working out hard. I wear headphones and make no friends or idle chitchat so no one is sure who my “alien parasite” asides or angry glares are directed at. Being strong and fit, rather than infirm and weak, gives me some feeling of accomplishment and control. I can’t do anything to change others, but I can control myself (except for my periodic chocolate binges – I am a female, after all). Of late I’m listening to (and singing along with) Sabaton – the confused looks the browns give me when I sing out Gott mit uns! are priceless.

      • As the Assies like to say . . . good on ya Sheila. Don’t get mad, get ripped. Mind your business, focus on self improvement, be patient, and ever at-the-ready. I’d love to be present when some bozo says the wrong thing to you.

  45. In Portland, in 2001, antifa punks were spitting at, shoving and kicking very rich, very old couples going to a Bush fundraising dinner. Then, the ‘Society for Nonviolence and Justice’ showed up, 200 punks with clawhammers in their belts.

    On local news only, of course, a bit of breathless titillation.

    Rich Republicans? Old elites?
    Isn’t that exactly who’s attention needs be gotten?

    I agree with Zman, the Patriots are acting as human shields, diverting fire.

  46. You guys need to watch the Homecoming comedy special on Netflix by Hassan Minhaj

      • I’m getting a lot of e-mails from ad agencies wanting to place ads on the site. I’m tempted to do it and the surround the ad with race realist talking points. Maybe place the ad in a box with FBI crime stats.

        • The dangerous thing is some ads can really mess up the site with malicious exploits. I wouldn’t count on all of them being actual ‘ad agencies’ but instead front orgs for our friends in gov’t who are worried to death about us o’l white people.

          • AND you are now receiving money from loyal fans without having to engage the creepy ad agencies, sleeper cells, und3rc0ver Hoover Building employees, and the like!

  47. The Civnats ain’t us, but Antifa has one insult for anyone they disagree with. Antifa has done more to rehabilitate the word Nazi than anyone on the planet. If you absolutely must get into a street fight wrap yourself in the most purile libertarian and boomer talking points. Dont taint our thing with the bad optics. The point at this stage is to reveal the weakness and hypocrisy of the system.

    Getting footage of Antifa beating people in the street is good. We live in a nation that bans books, has political prisoners and, now, has violent communist thugs roaming the streets unchallenged beating people.

    It’s a question of who should our propaganda be aimed at. The angry young guy or the old middle class.

    • We can do a lot more damage with a slogan on a sticker, placed on a lamp post or power box.

      As much as I’d love to be doing other things (ahem) with those lamp posts, we aren’t there yet.

    • Tykebomb: ” The point at this stage is to reveal the weakness and hypocrisy of the system.” Sort of like how Dems R the Real Racists? That works so well for TruCons – since so many here are the same in spirit and motivation, full speed ahead . . . to irrelevancy. At some point people here have to accept that most people’s minds cannot be changed by facts nor motivated by vague outrage – they’re too busy with sportsball and ensuring their princess daughters get into a good college. If your goal is informing or converting the masses, you’ve already lost. It’s not happening.

      • Uh, no. The real attack on the system is that it can no longer keep people safe. Andy Ngo getting beaten in the street is great footage of the basic civilization failing. You need to think bigger. The state wants diversity and the disenfranchisement of white people. Democrats are still a few elections from complete government control. That makes the system providing you water, a bank, power, and public security is your enemy and you should celebrate its end. Police will actively let you be beaten in the street is much better than DR3.

        • Tykebomb – thanks for your response – I misunderstood your point. Sorry for the snark.

    • At this juncture, a better strategy is to increase cost/lower return. One tactic I heard of was taking a mail solicitation from an undesirable source, say the SPLC, begging for bucks with a free return envelope. Affix a brick to the return envelope and send it back. The SPLC then has to cover the postage.

      Why not “organize” a rally, get Antifa all fired up, and then no show? The first time, they will claim “victory” for having thwarted; the second time, they will look silly for falling for it; the third time they will look like Charlie Brown v. Lucy. The fourth time, you actually show up and they don’t, and you win. Lather, rinse, repeat.

    • My understanding is that the Civil Rights movement worked because whites not near the riots only saw what the media wanted them to see. Since most whites dislike disorder and unjustified violence, they sympathized with MLK and company. The whites on the scene were intimidated by the violence, betrayed by the authorities, or made tactical blunders.

      Do not give Antifa a Target and they will find one. Say they disrupt the March for Life. Publishing video footage of some cute white teenaged girl being egged and called a dirty white whore by black clad commies will create both more hatred for our enemies and opportunities for our side than showing up to fight over a damn statue while waving Nazi flags.

  48. “… between the old white nationalist types and the younger, smarter activists and thinkers, who have entered the space over the last decade.”
    Genuine question, who are the smarter activists and thinkers?
    I would have thought Jared Taylor to be one of the older ones but again displays foolishness agreeing to another MSM interview.

    • Lucy convincing Charlie Brown she’s earnest about not pulling away the football one more time.

  49. If I get your drift it looks like we need to establish some kind of home turf to start with? Maybe some small town where the local police will stand down for our side?

      • To avoid top-down tyranny, we need a redoubt with some state clout, which requires a small local population state, preferably pre-K-selected by climate and distance from Mestizo invaders, sandy beaches and hipster-douche urban attractions. Think Wyoming or Montana. Someplace the phags and feds don’t give a shit about where we will be dismissed as toothless hicks and left alone.

        • They will never leave you alone.

          And picking your fall back position as a place that can be nothing but surrounded by your enemy is not a good survival strategy.

          Switzerland managed to negotiate their way thru WW2 without suffering thru a Nazi invasion, but they did an awful lot of playing both sides against each other, put almost every able bodied man in military service – and promised to make the Germans pay if they ever tried it. They also had a long tradition of marksmanship and military service that enabled them to do that.

          They also turned away refugees at the border – including a lot of Jews, using the excuse that they just didn’t have the resources to take in all of Europe – they had to think of themselves.

          Montana and Wyoming are not Switzerland.

          They’re not even close to be as defensible. They’re more like the Ukraine. Which the Soviet Union ran over – and then starved to death.

          Better come up with a better idea.

          I seriously don’t know where this fetish came from on the right that running away to the continental interior is some great long term strategy.

          • Hello McFly …Mr. Teaparty and Exile friends…They own Google Earth and have drones and helicopter gun ships. This is not 15 years ago. No where to run…no where to hide. There will be no collective backwoods commune fighting back. If you do, you’ll turn into a fireball of Ruby Ridge and Waco combined and be used as a cautionary story to others. Gather with friends to teach/learn and fly under the radar as best you can. Leave the cities as they are becoming hell holes on steroids. Hell, China as teamed up with Google. Google and Big Tech and CCTV and a million other spy ways to track all citizens. They know what you’re doing.
            PS Takin’ it to the streets is asinine unless you have a deathwish. You won’t even get a good martyrdom out of this…dust and forgotten.

          • I’m not looking to fight, I’m looking to separate. The alternatives are frontal assault or crying in our beer. Actual separation is a mid-long term goal. Leaving the cities is exactly what I’m talking about for now, not going militia-Fremen.

          • Most of the people I see talking about separation won’t stop sending money out of their paychecks to United Way. Won’t pay cash for things they are perfectly capable of paying cash for – they’d rather use their credit card. They leave their bank accounts at Bank of America. Have an Alexa in their home. Will bitch me out if I tell them I speed on the highway and have done upgrades to my home without getting a permit. Think the Federal Reserve is a good idea. Supported the war in Iraq and will support the war against Iran once they can finally pull it off.

            I’m sure I forgot a few dozen other examples. These are just the one’s I’ve seen personally.


            It’s not that hard to “separate” and remove most of your contribution to the Globohomo and the ruling class. I don’t see most people even doing the things they can do relatively easily. Try even discussing the harder topics and they’ll usually go after you.

            You’re NEVER going to get separation – if you can’t even convince people to do easy shit like use cash instead of credit and dump the Alexa in their homes.

            If you can’t even do that – you’re NEVER going to get people to do things that entail serious disruption in their lives – like moving.

            The system is like the Matrix. Stop being a fucking battery. You don’t need to move to do that. You need stop feeding your energy into it.

          • I don’t send money to United Way or any charity supporting “refugee” settlement and I have never even seen an Alexa, let alone keep one as a pet. But would you explain how paying cash and forgoing credit cards helps the cause of separation (which I support)?

          • Not for nothing – but this is the typical type of response I get when I bring up this subject. I’m tired of always having to explain it . So let’s do this a different way:

            I tell you what – why don’t you explain to me why it wouldn’t?

          • Separate is third alternative and mid-long term goal. You’ll find a few like minded folks and fewer incidents of your hair on fire. And you can keep red pilling locals. Finding a local constabulary to support you is like finding a hen with teeth. Euw! Even if they agree, they have pensions.

          • Read the Line In the Sand and Pozymandias post above. Those are responses. Not the wailing of a refugee from a knitting circle.

          • Roman & Soviet troops both couldn’t hold their crumbling empires together despite the breakaway population’s lack of mountain strongholds and IDF-tier armed populations. Ennervated failed empires simply lose both the will and ability to crush secession, especially when you boil the frog slowly rather than seizing prime assets & real estate.

          • Switzerland’s unique advantage had nothing to do with its “long tradition of marksmanship and military service.” The Rothschilds and other globalist reprehensibles always needed a safe and secure place to park their ill-gotten gains. Switzerland’s neutrality and bank secrecies provided a safe harbor for banksters, criminals, politicians, drug and flesh peddlers, as well as corrupt government officials and everyone else seeking to preserve as much of their personal wealth as possible. Neither the national socialists nor the international socialists nor the Anglo-Ammerican frauds would want to see their most treasured non-ally harmed for those very reasons.

            And, besides, Édouard, Ariane, Benjamin, Nathaniel, David, Evelyn, Jacob, and a few other family members would get very nervous and, more than likely, quite nasty and we would not want that to happen now would we?

          • Makes one wonder whether such a Machviavellian strategy would work for helping to immunize a White enthnostate against attack…coupled with a formidable geography and harsh clime which most other peoples would find unbearable, but in which innovative Aryan men could survive comfortably and even prosper with creative tech and environmental engineering and in which financial assets, regardlesss of source, could be rigorously safeguarded with maximum privacy, inpenetrable security, and scrupulously precise accounting. Also, offering to foreign customers advanced medical or engineeting services available nowhere else might be useful toward this end.

            Somewhere like Siberia, Alaska, or Antarctica.

        • You can’t run or hide .The Left is motivated by religious fanaticism on par with the most violent Wahhabist Muslim

          If somehow you’d got a redoubt, the Left will move millions of diversity into you AO and will make you pay for it

          A fight is absolutely unavoidable and inevitable though it might be possible, a slim hope ,to avoid civil war long enough for us to avoid self annihilation

          The must be permanently removed from power and systems set up to prevent R selected people from getting significant power in any sector should society get prosperous.

          This does mean in some ways less freedom than we have now but so be it. I want a country that’s a great place to raise kids , not New Gomorrah like we have now.

      • Power is truth though I’ll noticed Eisenhower despite Alabama being a weak state still sent one of the most feared and storied military units state the 87th Airborne to do his dirty work

        There was more than a little fear there

        In any case the US was in the midst of the cold war and even if we have been willing, no way would even the Southrons be willing to risk a war. This went beyond the moral issues, the Feds were awful but the Reds were worse

        Ike knew this and thus was able to do what he did.

        • This is a good point. When Ike was around the Red Menace was a very real and pressing threat to every American. As it stands today, I personally would say that I regard Leftist Americans as a far greater threat to my safety, prosperity and freedom than Vladimir Putin’s tanks. The “enemies foreign and domestic” concept now applies almost entirely to domestic ones. This may be why one of the hobbies of the Left and crypto-Left (neo-cons) over the last 20 years has been to gin up some new foreign bogeyman to replace the commies. “You think the feds are bad, how about Al Qaeda/Iran/China/North Korea/Putin’s Russia…”

          It hasn’t worked though. This is the real devastating blow that Trump dealt to them. Their new narratives have all been discredited now and people see who the real enemy is. You saw them this weekend in Portland, not St. Petersburg.

          • We’ve become the country that we used to fight against.

            The Cloud People are the greatest enemy of the 90% of ordinary Americans (aka the Dirt People), not a foreign terrorist group or the Russians or the Chinese or anyone else.

          • Excuse me, i was wrong it was the 101st airborne .

            Frankly what Ike did was still treasonous no matter what the courts said. It was probably in some sense morally correct which has been the problem since the 1860’s

            The Law as intended vs Yankee and Southron vs Liberal vs Conservative

            Frankly the US has no reason to exist as a nation other than inertia anyway , the various subsets of Americans aren’t a single people

            This complexity was made worse by another Eisenhower fuck up, the interstate highway system. This was fine on a Constitutional basis and well intended but it was ruinous for the US

            This mistake along with immigration allowed the population to fragment even more and instead of states and regions into divided cities , something we had gotten over

            If the Us cracks up, it will be much uglier because of that

    • I haven’t heard about much Antifa action in red-states. Even a place like Boston has very limited tolerance for their BS. That’s why I agree with – going to Portland, Seattle, of San Fransisco to brawl with them is just idiotic. The cops, politicians, and media are all on the other side. There is no winning there.

  50. Klantifa thugs deserve a face-full of 9mm. It is time for the Right to fight back and let the devil take the hindmost. **** the “optics.”

    • That is how you end up like James Fields Jr. Make a post that a brown female prosecutor can point as evidence your “violent white supremacist mindset” and you just forfeited any remaining right to defend yourself.

      • Anyone who’s promoting that kind of violence in the comments section is not your friend. They are actively working against you. It’s a good rule of thumb

      • “Go away Fed?” Horseshit. Just let Klantifa pound your head into the pavement, cuck. I don’t look for trouble, don’t attend stupid “protests,” but if i’m in line at a Trump rally get jumped, or get attacked for wearing a Trump hat, i won’t accept a beating from no man. Only pussies and cucks(i repeat myself) take beatings.

          • Okay, got it. The “Right Of A Citizen To Self-Defense” gets voted down and the Klan gets voted up? The Leftist Borg has many of you beaten before you even start. Good luck.

        • Guys like Michael Hayden are trolling sites just to produce this kind of reaction. Be careful, fam. The “silence is violence” crowd don’t care if you’re only promoting self-defensive non-pussiness.

      • If we learned anything from those texts, the 7th floor Hoover Bldg gang has a lot of free time on their hands….

    • This is just that little puke Tiny Duck doing his baiting routine with yet another tedious nom de fap.

      “The devil take the hindmost?” WTF?

      Why, where in tarnation are my musket and my top-boots?

    • your glowing foolishness is just wrong and stupid. you should be banned from this and any other reasonable site. they are wretched , but this is unacceptable thinking.

    • Don’t disparage the Klan by associating them with Antifa. In the environment in which they were operating, the Klan were the good guys. In their first incarnation, they were upholding law and order in places where law and order was sometimes non-existent. In their second incarnation, they were fighting for immigration enforcement and sovereignty.

  51. Agreed. The right has to win. Every time. No exceptions. Pick your battles and your battlefields carefully. If you can’t win, stay home.

    The model for violent confrontation is the hard hat riots of the 70s, when construction workers poured onto the streets by the hundreds and beat the hippies with pipes and chains. We’re not there yet.

    • I looked that up. The Wikipedia article is hilariously biased. Somehow 200 construction workers surrounded over a thousand commies. Also hilarious that the commies were opposed by the actual working class.

      • I’m sure the article is biased. Wikipedia for anything other than looking up scientific terms always is. The part about the 200 vs. 1000 though is plausible. I get to meet a lot of Portland, OR’s “finest” young commie men, well – “men”. They seem to come in 2 forms, emaciated and morbidly obese. Neither has any muscle tone or would be a match for a burly construction working with a pipe.

    • It seems to me that the Patriot Prayer guys getting their heads smashed up is more or less equivalent to blacks marching some place where they figured the cops would set dogs on them. It’s a good thing insofar as it really, really irritates the CivNats & helps push them to this side.

      The thing with construction workers and pipes is what you do when you know the cops are on your side, which is why Antifa gets uppity in Portland and not in Alabama.

  52. It should be pointed out that Patriot Prayer is essentially a CivNat organization, filled with Boomers with half-Mestizo Grandchildren.

    They are the Breitbart Facebook comments section come to life.

    • Agreed, but the post was not about them or the particulars of the event. That said, a pretty good starting point is to assume anything the Breitbart comment section likes is probably a dumb idea.

    • Weird. My hard-left anti-Trump best friend is also a CivNat Boomer with half-Mestizo grandchildren, claiming the moral high ground.

      “All men are created equal, anyone can be an American”- the CivNat banner. Proposition Nation is right-hand multiculturalism.

      • Nor do you make your side stronger by chasing away potential allies like women or Boomer Cons with half-mestizo grandchildren. Your small numbers are all on you. The dissident right could craft a winning message, but hasn’t the sense of realism/pragmatism it would take to do so. If you seriously wanted to forestall the minority white scenario, you would concentrate on immigration, law enforcement and freedom of association, rather than segregation, separation, HBD or an ethnostate. Those ideas are never going to have much drawing power in the foreseeable future and have the effect of simply turning people off in large numbers. Incidentally, here are two very different versions of the Jared Taylor interview with Jorge Ramos. There is a marked difference in “tone”. I know the d right hates anything that smacks of tone police, but one interview I would say is marginally successful, the other is used against him. It’s all in the editing/attitude.

        • Yes of course, the big winners are tolerant of miscegenation and nation-destroying ideas. Your Natural Allies are people who do things that end in your genocide. It’s Good Optics and 100% Winning. So much Winning that I’m tired of it already, just like with the orange man and all of that Winning of more legal immigrants than ever.

          If you don’t have the gumption to support it now because Bad Optics or whatever rationalisation for personal cowardice you have right now, how much are these ideas going to “turn people off” when you’re in a South Africa Kill Whitey scenario of you or your near descendants being a tiny, despised and persecuted minority that can’t speak out so much as a peep in their own self-defense without being subject to widespread political violence? When the incentives are so stacked against any self-determination and just basic continued existence of your own people that it will be literally impossible to even imagine it?

          May as well just all kill ourselves now and save some agony. A lot of this is literally just the same cowardice that William Pierce described when he talked about the comfortable middle-class. Don’t want to rock the boat, don’t want to risk anything. Think you can just keep fleeing one stop down the interstate.

      • Alzaebo, your friend might be right, i.e., any”one” can become an American. But we don’t make public policy on the anecdotal—rather, the statistical average with regard to current scientific evidence concerning HBD. I usually don’t drop into the HBD argument with my rebuttal, but merely point out that they are arguing from the specific to the general and the fallacy of logic this entails.

    • If these “boomers” and “half-mestizos” agree with you 75%, and are willing to fight for it, why are you criticizing them? Would you prefer they just be 100% white under-50s who engage in social media all day? I don’t think civnats are the problem here. The dissident right needs as big a tent as it can get. That is, by the way, how the leftists are winning. They have LGBT churches now. If the left can abdorb church people, then I think the dissident right can absorb “half-mestizos”

      • Wow, brilliant idea, Marko – just like Zman’s beloved “alt-Jews.” Simply redefine identitarianism or ethnonationalism to include all the magical mystery meat civnats and WIN!!! And now I’ll get downvoted by everyone with an Asian or Latina wife, or really nice brown neighbors, because “What about meeee?” and NAXALT. Hint – if the so-called “dissident right’s” acceptance of HBD is limited solely to Negro criminality, it’s not particularly dissident at all. Furthermore, it is not a logical or coherent worldview and is, in fact, no different from the left’s standard moral framework about muh human race and equality.

        • I think that identitarianism/ethno-nationalism are parts of the dissident right, not the whole dissident right. I have no problem with identitarians being exclusive. I also agree that civnats and leftists have the “muh human race” in common. But I’m anti-immigration, I agree that whites should have homelands, and I “notice things” as Steve Sailer would say. Though I am not an identitarian. That makes me a civnat on the right. Many whites can believe all those things mentioned above but stop short of being a white identitarian like Mark Collett. I would hope that I could find a comfy spot in the dissident right regardless of that.

          • If you believe whites should have homelands, doesn’t that make you a white identitarian?

          • It’s okay to be white, to preserve your country’s heritage, culture, language, demographics and to look out for your own/group interests. That doesn’t necessarily mean an ethnostate, which seems to be implicit in identitarianism. There are a host of other issues which also seemed to be attached to the designation “dissident right.”

          • I don’t think so…it just means you are a nationalist. I believe the Koreans should have their own homeland(s) as well, etc.

        • There are plenty of dudes with Asian wives who are down with the dissident right and don’t have a problem with you. We KNOW

      • “They have LGBT churches now….”

        Errrrr….no, they don’t. The queers have PARODIES of church, Just as they have parodies of marriage. And one thing you will never see in the mass media is the longevity of these progressive churches. Once they fall to the queers and feminists – people stop going.

        • Some of them seem to be “zombie churches”. They have all kinds of outreach programs and links to the local governments but few actual parishioners. My guess is that some rich liberal bankrolled these things and then conveniently died. Now they just burn through the trust money.

      • My thinking here is that some form of Proposition Nationalism makes a certain amount of sense. A lot of my own Italian and German ancestors probably should never have been allowed into the country. Eventually though they “became Americans” as they say. The thing to note though is that the groups who did that in the past were coming into a country that was very, very insistent on assimilation. You speak English here and leave your Marxism back in Hamburg or Milan. This is why the Left is so insistent on multiculturalism. They don’t want people to assimilate at all. They want ethnic ghettos everywhere. A compromise with the CivNats might be to say that when it comes to the immigrants who are already here and are here legally we welcome all races and nationalities – as long as they aspire to white American concepts of freedom, limited government, and rule of law. As for those who still want in – too bad, fix your own damn countries first. The central idea must be to strengthen the core values of heritage America (among everyone) and prevent further invasion by alien peoples and ideologies.

        • Sigh. You need to look up what “assimilation” truly and ultimately means. If I had been working at Ellis Island when my ancestors arrived I would have denied them entry. My husband doesn’t identify in any way with his Irish or Italian ancestors, the earliest of whom got here in 1883. But for each one like us, there are thousands more who think they’re “assimilated” if they wear jeans or speak some form of English. They’re not.

        • So how do you propose to welcome all races and nationalities while ensuring they aspire to “white American concepts of freedom, limited government, etc.”? Ask them to sign a pledge?

          The practical reality is that your wishful concepts are the product of a historical process involving white European-derived people. You can’t just import non-white, third world economic migrants while telling them, “Now be good and assimilate. Constitution! Rule of law! Community!” That’s not part of their historical process. It’s alien to many of them. It’s not why they’re here.

          I can understand, even sympathize, with those living in wretched third world environments who want to escape. Alas, those environments have shaped the habits and values of the would-be escapees. Some migrants have even helped create or sustain the dysfunction they live in. In any case, most don’t have the attitudes and skills for the “Proposition Nationalism” you believe in.

          And I don’t think you can run the welcome wagon for the migrants already here but argue for barring future migrants. That’s simply playing into the hands of the open-borders interests. “Look!” they’ll say. “Assimilation is working, just like you want! Why stop there? If it can work with the ones we already have, why not with all the rest?” Of course they’ll never admit assimilation isn’t happening.

          In short, the melting pot theory, which is essentially what you advocate, is no longer valid if it ever was.

        • My thinking here is that your thinking shouldn’t be here,
          Genes are not propositions.
          If you move the English to North America, you get Canada and America,
          If they move to the Antipodes you get Australia and New Zealand.

          If you move the Africans to the Caribbean you get Jamaica and Haiti,

          Genes matter,
          Genes matter above all else. They are not changed by words that you claim to accept.

          • Bilejones, I’m thinking you are correct tactically. The concept of “White” includes many different folk. Seems some folk posting here don’t even recognize Irish or Italian as White if I read correctly. Not sure we can ever succeed with that tight a definition.

          • The criticisms here are valid as far as they go. Genes are not propositions and obviously some races are going to be easier to absorb than others. In particular, migrants from Africa and Muslim lands need to be strongly encouraged to leave. There needs to be a kind of parsing of people by IQ and occupation. It’s what drug policy people call harm reduction. Indeed, think of it as the drug problem. Ideally you don’t want any drug dealers in your neighborhood, but which is worse, heroin or weed dealers?

            This is not meant to be a logically consistent policy either, just a way to minimize the existing harms, get as many of the smarter immigrants on our side as possible, and prevent further invasion. In a perfect world, half of California would be sent home. Actually I’d like to send the white bugmen from there “home” to somewhere, maybe an asteroid floating in space.

    • But I have to think CivNats getting the snot beat out of them while the cops are paid to ignore the whole thing has to be a net positive. The photos of that guy’s head are everywhere.

      If you are trying to get CivNats to wake up, isn’t this how it gets done?

  53. As a guy who has attended his share of street protests, I welcome Z’s criticisms of this tactic. I’ll only add that at some point we have to occupy public space. Maybe it’s not wise to do so at this moment, but if we never take a public stand then we lose.

    I’m willing to step back and let the smart guys work their intellectual magic, but if it only amounts to blog posts then we are going to lose.

    • In most things, not doing the wrong thing is the best thing. Our guys always want to jump to the end of the book, rather than read the whole thing. By that I mean they want to “occupy public space” now, rather than at the end, when it is possible. There’s a lot of work to be done before there can be any talk about owning public space. Jumping to the end phase now is the wrong thing at the wrong time.

      Further, owning the street is like owning a condemned mansion. A century ago, the street had value, as that’s where politics was done. That’s not the case anymore. Basically those street fights with Antifa are just another form of role playing. It’s one side pretending they are the Freicorps and the other side pretending they are the Bolsheviks. Civil War reenactments have more salience, because the people we are trying to recruit actually go to those events and pay attention.

      I’m not going to pretend I have it all worked out, but it does not change the fact that these street tactics and the embrace of taboo iconography have been a total failure. White nationalism has been a bigger flop than Buckley conservatism. We have to think different in order to avoid the same fate.

      • I live near (but thankfully not in) Portland. I was angry already this weekend because of some things at work and then I heard about this. I totally agree with Z on this. Occupying public space has some value, though as Z points out, less than a hundred years ago. It almost never hurts to think about this stuff as a military campaign. A good general asks “Where are we already strong? What territory do we hold? What parts of the enemy space adjacent our strongholds are weak?” So I’ll try to answer these. We are strong basically in suburban, exurban, and especially rural areas and on the internet.

        If you need a public rally, do it in some small town in a hard core red area. The Amren thing that Z went to in the woods in Tennessee was a good model. I know what these Portland types are like. In their urban womb they can act like tough guys. They assemble using mass transit and then when the cops arrive they melt away into side streets and take off their masks. They are *terrified* to even go to the suburbs and there’s no “melting away” into the streets of some small town. They lack survival skills and even the ones who aren’t tatted and pierced like circus freaks have lost the ability to talk to normies much less conservative Christian types from the countryside. Seriously, they even avoid Beaverton which is a mid size town just to the West of Portland. The Portland types have shitted it up and turned it into a dump but they still don’t feel comfortable even there.

        • “If you need a public rally, do it in some small town in a hard core red area. ”

          I agree with Z that organising a rally in dome deep blue college town is a losing proposition (unless the attendees are willing to fight and go to jail ) but why not small towns and private property? If people never meet face to face bonds are not formed and cohesion is impossible. The internet, which we’re being slowly excluded from, is not enough, large get togethers are necessary.

        • If anyone has any doubts about the Portland police and who’s side they are on, look up the pedigree of the police chief, one Danielle Outlaw (you can’t make this up).

          • “Danielle Outlaw currently serves as chief of police for the Portland Police Bureau, in the U.S. state of Oregon. She is the first African American woman to head the bureau…”

            Sometimes I think Reality is effing with us. If human existence is a computer simulation, then I congratulate the Unprogrammed Programmer on His sense of humor.

        • Remember when Anti-fa ventured into Auburn AL and tried to do a march? Bunch of local sheriff’s deputies and state troopers gave them a choice of losing the masks (thanks to Klan era bans on covering your face in public) and marching or being arrested right then and there. They slunk off and haven’t been heard from again. None wanted to be doxxed in that environment.

      • Z-man, slightly off direct topic, but feedback. Your comment above elaborates/qualifies your main posting of today such that I now agree with your original posting—whereas before, I was vehemently opposed. What gives? I seem to be seeing this with some regularity. Might be useful to consider such elaboration in the original posting.

      • If you’re going to march – in a blue city – you’d better do two things. One, Lawyer up. Two, make it all about them attacking you for just expressing yourself. IOW, the idea should be you get to protest peacefully – or you sue the cities ass off. Going there for a “war” is stupid and counterproductive. Chanting racist slogans or marching with “Tiki Torches” even more so. Its never worked, and its never going to work. Charlottsville just gave the Left and the Trump haters want they wanted. If we learn, 10 years from now that Richard Spenser was getting paid off – I wouldn’t be surprised.

    • Contrast Mark Collett’s confrontation with the Israel Advocacy Movement with Jared Taylor on CNN.

      Contrast that foolishness in Portland with how AIM managed their public protest in that DC bookstore.

      If you want to confront our enemies in public use Collett and AIM as your model.

      We’re white men. We don’t chimpout. We organize. When we have the numbers and are organized then we act.

      As Z has suggested, if you’re a young guy full of energy join AIM. If you’re and older guy you know a lot of people in a lot of different walks of life. Make connections, build organizations including existing civic groups.

      We’re very very good at organizing and building stuff. Let’s play up our strengths.

    • Carve out a chunk of the time you spend on national politics and ideology and use it to understand local politics. Then involve yourself there. That’s how this happens.

  54. Although not exactly the same thing, since there’s no violence, is it a good idea for dissident rightists such as Jared Taylor to give interviews to CNN or other mainstream media outlets, knowing that his views will be mischaracterized at best, or that the interview tapes will be edited to make him look like Reinhard Heidrich? I understand the argument that some people, seeing the program, will look up AmRen and make the judgment for themselves. But I fear many more people will turn away in disgust–it’s a form of seeking engagement on the enemy’s turf and on the enemy’s terms, just like Zman is warning us against in this article.

    • When anyone is relentlessly ” stupid ” enough to provide clips for the mainstream media and the scream ” How could they do this, Its not fair!!! ” for the 4,196,735,421 th time , you have to think something is up . publicity is the air jarred breathes , but talking to CNN was dumb.
      ANTIFA has not done nearly as much damage to the right as Richard spencer has done singlehanded. whether it’s aping roman salutes at gatherings, to providing d’nesh desousa’a movie with a cartoon naz , he is always involved when it look really really bad.

      • Repeat incompetence is deliberate incompetence. Jared Taylor is controlled opposition.

    • Jared’s a good man but he’s hopelessly mired in the past. Guys like Taylor & Sailer are still talking to the Americans they grew up with about the America they grew up in, seemingly unable to realize that those people and that country aren’t around anymore.

      • Sailer knows what time it is, so he quietly continues to do what he does best, which is write, and I still read him everyday. He does not make the mistake of engaging with mass media, and unlike Taylor, Sailer has many silent fans in the mass media, including some folks at Fox and even the NYT.
        Sailer can’t be compared to Jared, and although I like Jared, I can’t believe he fell for this crap again. I think he just can’t help himself.

        • DivHereretic: “knowing that his views will be mischaracterized at best, or that the interview tapes will be edited to make him look like Reinhard Heidrich?”

          OK, that’s not how more serious documentaries do it. If anything, they’ll show Jared in a dignified light, and they won’t bother with obvious bush league edits. To give weight to the doc they’ll show that a movement has a leader who’s respectable and who’s to be taken seriously. A fatherly elite type. This sets up the hook. Which is, “Mr. Logic may not be evil himself, but look what he’s spawned.”

          Point is, CNN is going to paint their picture with or without Jared’s presence. At least him being there will show that we’re not just a bunch of shuffling jamokes. His phrasing will succinctly show there’s logic to our fears. It’s TV and it’s all about the soundbite. He’ll get our soundbite out to millions. CNN has him on because THEY won’t say what HE’LL say.

          Despite what plodders like Vox Day think, you can’t “edit” a Jared Taylor sentence. Just because Teddy Spaghetti can’t talk like a normal human being doesn’t mean articulate voices from our side should “NEVER” do interviews.

          I’ll hazard that Taylor isn’t as naive as he seems. He’s playing a roll. Following a strategy for himself and the movement. All our leaders take on an optic roll they think will work best.

          And if he’s “just doing it for attention.” So? He’s a face of the movement. I get the low-profile thing, but hell, people need to know we’re out here. We need OUR soundbites out there too. CNN isn’t going to demonize our side ANY LESS just because Jared Taylor showed up for an interview.

          Let’s not be so certain and fearful about what having One of Our Guys be interviewed…”engage on foreign turf” is going to “MAKE people think”. Not all viewers are easily led. Trump got elected despite what MSM tried to “make everyone think”.

      • There’s more to lose than to gain from Jared Taylor appearing on their Hate Propaganda show, but Taylor is an enormous asset for our side. An SJW or Cat Lady or an entrenched leftist isn’t going to be swayed by his arguments, but normies will. America changing has nothing to do with the soundness and truthfulness of Jared’s arguments. I advise everyone here to digest them and use them in your discussion with friends, family and neighbors.

      • Are these – not to be displeased by what they view on their television — “normal white people ” not the same people you claim “aren’t around anymore” ?

    • The MSM is your sworn enemy. They get to make money making you look like a psycho. The script is already written before they even contact you. They don’t care what you think. You are there to play the role of the worst possible person you can be in 2019, which is a white supremacist. Not even pedos are hated as much as white supremacists. It doesn’t matter if you aren’t a white supremacist or a Nazi or anything else. You are there to play a role and that is what they will do. Jared Taylor is a media whore and that was always the problem with him.

      • It simply doesn’t matter much that Jared went on CNN. Granted, it is a problem when certain rightwing nutjobs are interviewed as being leaders of Our Thing. But I’m not buying the “never engage on enemy turf” construct. Yes there are reasons not to deal with MSM, but they’re not THAT great. There’s no compelling reason why some of the more verbally adept on our side should rule out engaging.
        Interviews etc.

    • There is something to be said for controlling the streets. But when civil authorities with firearms side with the opposition there can be no controlling streets unless one is organized, capable of deploying supported, overwhelming and free-ranging forces and resources, as ruthlessly as justified, able to sensibly deploy these forces, and prepared to die for the Cause or willing to go the ground afterwards. Since nobody in the old Right or present keyboard Right was/is prepared to build a serious movement beyond a handful of dissident book clubs combined with “let’s meet, eat, and retreat,” die for the Cause, or go to the ground, the Left will continue its century-long winning streak – perhaps with a handful of short-lived interruptions.

      When the Orange Blompf leaves office, in 2024 at latest, the end will be at hand. The faux Right at Breitbart and Faux News will comply with Leftist diktats, because obeying Caesar is one of their civic virtues. The so-called “dissident” Right will continue hiding beneath rock, as they’ve always done, because “hiding is smart,” and bitch like little girls as their “platforms” completely disappear.

      You’ll see.

      Dissident Rightism in cyberspace means little unless coupled to the ground.

      No ground = no money from me.

      Enjoy your last 6-10 years of “blogging,” folks.

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