Coalitions In Mass Democracy

Not so long ago, both political parties in the West had a strong hold on their members and controlled access to their ballots. If you wanted to be a Democrat, a Tory or a Christian Democrat, it required you to be a member of those parties. You had to be in good standing with party leaders. There was plenty of internal party politics, as that’s the point of party politics, but the parties themselves had firm borders. If you wanted to be in the party, it meant adhering to party rules and supporting the party.

Look around today and that’s no longer true. In the United States, both parties are devolving into loose affiliations of power centers. The Republicans have no control over the message, as members regularly contradict one another in public and they can barely perform the basics as a party. The Democrats are close to flying apart as the various tribes within the party put loyalty to the tribe ahead of the party. They may nominate for president someone who is technically not in the party.

In Europe, it is a bit different, as the parliamentary system allows for parties to break apart, forming new parties. Still, in Britain, Labor looks like a cult of personality around Jeremy Corbyn. The Tories are cracking into one camp of yesterday men clinging to ideas from the last century and a new camp around British independence. Then you have the party of Nigel Farage. No one really cares what his party is called or what sort of platform they are putting forth, as it exists as long as he exists.

Farage is a great example of what is happening all over the West. Politics in mass democracy inevitably devolves into coalitions around personalities, rather than factions based in group interests. The parties exist as vehicles for individuals, a legacy item from the era of factional politics. The system that is supposed to be the polar opposite of authoritarianism, ends up being a competition between little Napoleons, competing with one another in the mock warfare of politics.

One reason for this is that group interests are longer term, as they are generational, while individual interests are shorter term. Democracy rewards the here and now on an individual level, so an organizational model that is willing to sacrifice the now for later is always going to be at a disadvantage. It does not take long for someone within that organization to see the opportunity and promise to win now, thus elevating his status within the organization and eventually dominating it.

This was the case in Athens, where political parties never got going. Lacking a long republican period or a slow transition from monarchy, the Greeks went right to the full democracy phase. Granted, they did not allow women to vote, as the Greeks were smart, but they otherwise had a true democracy. Instead of parties, they had coalitions around an influential person. His followers would describe themselves as being with this person or that person, indicating the person leading a particular faction.

We see this happening in America, where both parties are unable to do much of anything when in power. The old-timers like Joe Biden lament the lack of cooperation between the parties, but what he is describing is the dysfunction within the parties. It’s no longer possible for either party to push through policy on party lines. On the GOP side, there’s always a jerk like Rand Paul to bugger up the works. On the Democrat side, the hard Left is always ready to subvert their own leadership.

Dissidents get mad at Trump for not doing what he promised, but a lot of his problems stem from the fact he keeps playing old party politics. He remains convinced that he has to get the Republicans behind his initiatives, through the game of horse trading among the factions. The same problem exists in the Democrat House, where Pelosi struggles to get anything done with a caucus made up of people that hate one another. Both parties are led by old people playing a game no longer relevant to this age.

In Europe, this decay of factional interest into cults of personality has an opportunity to flourish because of the parliamentary system. No one even cares what Macron’s party is called or that it even exists. In Germany, the old folks desperately clinging to power are simply Merkelists. In Britain, things are becoming more explicit as we have the Farage party, the Corbyn party and soon the Boris party, assuming he can avoid beating his girlfriend long enough to win the leadership race.

How this plays out in America is hard to figure, as forming new political parties has been made so difficult by the two main parties. There’s also the fact that America is continent sized country with lots of diversity. In fact, America is already a majority-minority country, when you take into consideration the diversity that exists within the white population. Then there is the fact that the ruling class is cramped into the tiny city on the Potomac, which is walled off from the rest of the country economically and culturally.

Of course, this leads us to the Roman example, where the Republic was dominated by a handful of powerful men. This rivalry eventually led to one of those men conquering his rivals and the republic. The Europeans may be headed to a non-violent version of the Crisis of the Third Century, a form of war-lordism, while America is headed to some form of non-violent Caesarism. Historical analogies are never perfect, of course, but the comparison is useful for seeing down the road for what comes next in the West.

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123 thoughts on “Coalitions In Mass Democracy

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  2. Proof positive here that the conservatives would never, ever admit to their crimes against the social interest, stubborn stupidity, or willful blindness to the damage they were causing… just like their Leftist brethern.

    So the question becomes, could the Romans or anyone have forseen the Middle Ages?
    Our glorious future isn’t going to be HBO’s “Euphoria”, is it?

  3. Trump is trying trying trying to give the GOP an opportunity to ride his coattails and ditch the GOPe. The party is resisting tooth and nail. Should Trump win re-election he won’t need to continue trying to save the GOP from itself. That will be fun to watch.

    • It’s hard to know, but it looks to me more like Trump is servicing the GOPe.

      Trump just wants to be liked by the largest audience. Before the election, that audience was non-liberal whites. After that, Jared/Ivanka convinced him that he could be liked by the establishment. He has no convictions.

      I’m glad he was a wrecking ball against the establishment, but now he’s trying to rebuild what he knocked down, hoping to be praised by those who hate him.

  4. Republics turn into empires almost every time. Once an empire is in place, the dispersed power model of Republicanism begins to break down. When political or economic chaos arrives, people lose faith and look for leadership. Believe me, there is a Sulla in our future.

    • When the mass progressive coalitions finally get a woman in the oval office, that will be the hair pin turn ( no pun intended ) at the end of the tracts.

    • It would probably take losing a war and the recriminations that followed to get the military to a point where a Sulla or Ceasar could get enough hold on it to use it to gain control.

      • That is a scenario that could happen. The combat arms are overwhelmingly white and male.

        • Not for much longer if the Left gets in power.

          Also it might be better for the Dissident Right to stop assuming a military dictatorship will save us. It may well be up to us to save ourselves or to be that dictatorship

          Frankly as scary and bad this sounds it is also a glorious opportunity to build what we want without compromising much with Leftists

          An uncompromising Right Wing place built with populism and a paternal concern for our own citizens well being would be a nice place to raise kids, clean quiet and orderly with enough freedom it doesn’t seem like an open air jail;

          It will not be paradise but it will suck much less than what the other guys have planned and most importantly will work and done right last.

          It would require a ruthless iron hand with a strong system to make sure that following regimes are just as nasty and no doubt any Leftists remaining will try to undermine society or to do to it what they did to General Pinochet or South Africa

          This will mean that the new state is more than willing to unleash nuclear hell as needed. It’s not nice but the only way to deal with religious zealots like the Left is to be willing to destroy them

          Now I’m lazy and probably lack character as I will gladly settle for half a loaf without a war but if I can’t get that and it comes to war,

          Don’t run home to the redoubt, don’t cuck on the economy ,muh constitution muh libertarian or crumple under stress

          You do this, the other guys will win. If it comes to a fight and you don’t want hell on earth after best we win and rule.

          You can concentrate on a more free people when they act like adults again and become a moral, homogeneous religious people

          • A.B. Prosper. That was an amusing comment. Not saying silly or wrong. Just funny. You ever watch The Walking Dead series from AMC? There was a town like the nation you’re envisioning. The town leader was shown as a strangely normal psycho. He led the town with the iron hand you mentioned. If you’ve seen it, he’s the guy who kept heads in aquarium-like vessels. He was an interesting character. “The Governor”. The viewer came to sort of understand his ruthlessness. Season 3. For dissidents who are into apocalyptic/dystopian scenarios, the first 6 or 7 seasons of Walking Dead are great.


  5. ZMAN, I don’t care what you say, the memelords need to make marianne williamson happen.

  6. Libertarianism is intellectual syphilis, a seductive misunderstanding of human nature, another little tin god that failed, perhaps the ultimate expression of If-My-Aunt-Had-A-Dickism.

    If you have pissed away your life embracing this horseshit, don’t be angry at those who illuminate your own intellectual failure. Instead be thankful they are here to deliver you from error.

    I know it is really hard for some of you boomers to accept responsibility for anything, but maybe, as the sun sets on your generational failure, you can swallow your pride and surprise us all with an example of humility and grace, something the rest of us can remark on as we spend the rest of our lives cleaning up your mess.

    But we’re not holding our breath.

    • Dear Vegetis. Spitting on libertarians is pointless. And boomers are not a unified force marching in lock-step. And “seductive misunderstandings of human nature” are par for the course. Here’s a seductive misunderstanding. Thinking we can change the beast by playing the politics game or the protest game. We face a globalist progressive monster 300 hundred years in the making. Our hope is for the future. White people face a long hard struggle filled with pain and sacrifice and nobody living today will see the work accomplished. Learn from your enemies. How did they swallow up nearly the whole freaking west world? study your adversary and do likewise.

  7. From conservative to randian to libertarian to dissident right. Quite the journey. Where to go from here. Damned if I know.

    • I was a mainstream Republican for quite (17 and up ) while leaning Paleocon than was a bit of a Left Libertarian though I’ve been consistently anti immigration since forever.

      Having seen the effects of too much personal and corporate liberty does in the hands of idiots , I shifted and am now an authoritarian nationalist which is I suppose a harsher Paleocon I guess

      • You like too much liberty in the hands of the authoritians, like Cameltoe Harris, Dickie Cheney, John Bolton, John “I was and always will be a Bolzhevik” Brennan, James Fibber Flapper Clapper, and the fake orange headed grifter who has filled the swamp with the ((( swampiest of swamp creatures ))).

        • Not the same thing at all. There is a huge difference between “My Dissidents in Charge.” and “Neo Cons.” in charge

          And to your earlier point about being rescued. Not even.

          I want to my side to make the State that best suits what we want.

          Revolution whether political or forceful are group activities anyway, individuals tend to be speed bumps for both sides.

          In the end the big grift is over, either the left (R and D) will bleed you dry or the Dissident Right will force you to behave in a civilized ethical and low corruption fashion.

          Pick your poison.

          As for Libertarians, these are the guys that complain when the government steps into make sure prices aren’t fixed and milk isn’t cut with melamine, chalk or worse

          Push comes to shove Americans of all races are so habitually greedy. dishonest, shortsighted, conspiratorial and downright crooked that quite a bit of boot was needed,

          Take the foot off and you get drag queen story hour, addictive drugs sold everywhere and poisoned food, water and air

          If you don’t like that, go back in time and make sure people were much more honest from the start.

          Since that is not possible, a certain amount of government boot will mandatory for us to have a civilization.

          best it be our boot, not theirs

  8. “Democracy rewards the here and now on an individual level, so an organizational model that is willing to sacrifice the now for later is always going to be at a disadvantage. ”

    Team YT has been the only one to play this game at the individual level. Not everyone but enough have. This is why we have been overrun by parasites. Every other tribe uses our institutions to game us into a position of institutional inferiority…and too many of our tribe still don’t get it or can’t let go.

    Grumpy’s comment above is the perfect example: he knows things are in rapid decline. He ended up here because the civilization in in trouble. But he can’t reconcile his attachment to the sanctity of the individual in a world that evolved out of group preferences and dynamics.

    • Yep. The Enlightenment totally disregarded centuries of experience re the primacy of ethnic identity and group preferences in exchange for individualism run amok. Add in the economists of that age and voila! Homo economicus is born – totally fungible, totally free of community roots and ties and responsibilities. Add in equalitarianism – that damned leveling instinct that overthrows all natural hierarchies – and you have today’s average White – not merely in America or even the Anglosphere, but throughout what used to be known as Christendom.

  9. The winner takes all and regional voting aspects of our system prevent serious alternatives to the major parties. This amps up the tensions between and within various factions. The last time the parties shattered, we had a war between the states.

    • Last Stand, agreed. Which is why we need to work to take over one of the parties. Barring a major change to the Constitution, we have a winner take all contest between two entities and always will have. That the old Dem’s lose control to a fractious bunch of new Dem’s doesn’t change the system. It just means they fight it out in Congress and work out their differences there.

      Of course, the above tacitly implies a political solution to concerns voiced in this group, not necessarily a shared belief held here.

  10. Great column; one technical note: in the Continental system, it’s not just that you have to be a card-carrying member to be able to vote for party candidates, but in parliament, members always vote as they are told by the party – unlike the US, where Congress critters regularly vote across party lines.

    What this stability means in practice, is that parties can form coalitions on single issues spanning several election periods, effectively taking the subject in question off the table for future assemblies, even if the power balance shifts.

    People from two-party systems often believe that multi-party systems can’t take big decisions; that’s a misunderstanding – on the contrary. But what is very difficult in the Continental system is to hold any one party responsible for a given decision: they’ll just tell you that “oh yes, we’re against that, but it was part of a coalition agreement, and no, I can’t tell you how that decision was reached, but we’re all behind it now”.

    • Our masters are numerous and not even slightly under our control. The permanent state, the military industrial complex, the federal reserve system, local and state government, the tech industry, not to mention who knows how many NGOs. The list is long and depressing and this one is far from compleat. So be involved in all the politics you like, it’s what humans do. But just remember, liberty and government are two different things. And the machine always want’s you to play the game by it’s rules. freedom equals independence and self reliance. Here’s a quote from Marshall McLuhan about modern life. “The ordinary person senses the greatness of the odds against him even without thought or analysis, and he adapts his attitudes unconsciously. A huge passivity has settled on industrial society. For people carried about in mechanical vehicles, earning their living by waiting on machines, listening much of the waking day to canned music, watching packaged movie entertainment and capsulated news, for such people it would require an exceptional degree of awareness and an especial heroism of effort to be anything but supine consumers of processed goods.” It’s become a bit silly to say but we really are in the matrix. So if we can’t find the back door my advice is find some fun ways to screw with our enemies and start enjoying the collapse.

  11. “The Europeans may be headed to a non-violent version of the Crisis of the Third Century, a form of war-lordism, while America is headed to some form of non-violent Caesarism.”

    Why did you write “non-violent”? Why don’t you think that the violent forms are more likely?

    • I would think the US is due for some breaking-up myself, but our military-financial complex would not allow that. Fort Sumter Part II would end not in civil war but a Caesarian military dictatorship lording it over the whole “united” states. In this way I agree with Z. As for “non-violent”, I really don’t think there’s an appetite for rebellion. Maybe as late as the 1980s, when there was still a large majority of patriotic whites, we might’ve had a Jeffersonian revolution. But now we’re just an economic confederation so as long as people are comfortable with their superhero movies and Buffalo wings, they are not fighting for shit

    • Violence, inter-personal and organized, has been in sharp decline for a while now. Even blacks are less violent. Maybe events will lead to a sharp reversal, but that does not seem to be the way to bet. Think about it. London was invaded and conquered by Muslims and not a single Brit raised a finger to stop it. It’s possible we have been civilized to the point where we can no longer defend ourselves.

      • Oh violence is coming. The yellow vests are violent . Merkel buddy was shot and killed. Breivik, the guy that shot the Republicans and the Vegas shooter of all those Trump voters.

        Violence is baked in. Open borders plus gibs = kill the kulaks to give vibrants their stuff.

        • I wonder if anyone has done any sort of analysis on their situation and figured out what they could defend against…

      • Perhaps it was also a problem of failure to realize such until it was too late? 15 years ago, I started to become aware of border watch groups assembling and spotting IA’s crossing into the US. At that time the crossing was so blatant that you could drive to a high point, park your car, set up a canopy for shade, break out the lawn chair, grab the binoculars and phone in the numbers and direction of the IA’s to BP.

        And yet, few people I spoke with had knowledge or if I was believed, concern. Now, if polls are to be believed, three quarters of the current voters rank such illegal immigration as their highest concern. Of course, the damage is by and large already done. I suspect such was similar in London. One day all is well and seemingly the next the city elects an Muslim mayor.

        • Yea and it will the same thing with needing to band together so our way of life can be preserved and our people can survive…Won’t happen until its in our face and some won’t survive…

      • Everyone is still eating and having their beer and watching sports ball. When there is economic collapse combined with the fail safe systems breaking down then all bets will be off.

        • If the collapse comes. Often as not collapses just make things worse and nothing get touched off anyway, c.f much of the 3rd world

          Actual fighting will happen when enough people want something enough to kill and die for it not before

          The Left isn’t there and the Right isn’t either so it a cold civil war

        • George, or just imagine a breakdown in the supply chain for the many millions of American adults and children who take toxic psychotropic meds… psychotic episodes, anyone?

          • Ursula, those people are just going to need to cope. It’s called “sucking it up”. I have relatives who are so cozy into their issues and their meds. They can rattle them off for comparison to each other, to see who is the biggest and baddest in their issues. I am just going to keep steering clear. If they go postal, it is going to need to be on each other. Darwin smiles.

      • A downturn could also be precipitated by a shock to the system. Something no one sees coming. For instance going to war with Iran and losing.

      • London is not majority Muslim , its majority foreigner with a lot of Euro Trash there. This also assumes that a lot of UK Muslims are practicing or devout which they are not.

        They still need to go and will still be a problem but this is not a Caliphate invasion , Bad but not doomed.

        In any case it’s hard to get people to fight without a win condition and our system in theory is the win condition, after all it’s “free” democratic and with a robust welfare state. What else does anyone need?

        The fundamental difficulty will be the recreation of glory tradition and cultural continuity by the Right and the fear that someone will do this is why the Left constantly rewrites history, gaslights and subverts the culture

        Basically the fix for the West s an authoritarian Right wing state that looks out for its people and puts an end to that shit

        That state will probably look like Norsefire from V is for Vendetta especially the movie hopefully less stupid and paranoid

        • The yearning for an authoritarian right wing state to protect you and save the day is what Thornton Melon referred to as “fantasyland.” Besides, it breaches Z’s doctrine that the future does not lie in nostalgia for the past.

          • All forms of government have been tried before. Democracy is nothing new. Plato and Polybius both wrote on these subjects.

  12. Increased diversity inevitably leads to less political trust and less effective/competent institutional control, both in terms of policy and personnel. Catabolic collapse seems much more likely than simple fiscal collapse on our present, seemingly unalterable downward spiral. The division of Red Team-Blue Team into personal fiefdoms is an unavoidable outcome. The diversity tiger will end up riding both parties. The de facto disintegration of the two-party system is a great prospect for us and something we should be gas-canning at every opportunity. At the same time, we need to come together, integrating as they disintegrate. To form an effective community we need a balanced combination of IRL physical proximity and low-intensity, opportunistic political resistance. Our integration can leverage every advantage we gain from their disintegration.

    • Catabolic collapse seems to be an absolute certainty in the long term, Population figures and resource use suggest the US of 2200 will look like 1900 more than a Space future

      Stil one purpose of a revolt would be to buy a few centuries more for a possible breakthrough though its pretty unlikely ti happen

    • Agree completely glad more people are seeing the light…It’s so simple the cavemen did it because they knew it was a life and death choice…Most haven’t realized that yet but they will… Hopefully it’s not to late for them or their prodigy when they do…I hate seeing someone suffer when they didn’t have too…

    • Dear Exile. I just noticed you post. Who has been using the term “Catabolic” as a metapher for civilizational, societal or cultural collapse? This is the first time I’ve encountered it. What am I missing here? Does this mean somebody thinks that in the future white people are going to lose the ability to digest Big Macs?

  13. Barring a grand collapse or civil war that remakes the entire map ,our future caesars/leaders–as was seen in Rome–will keep the empty husk of the republic and don it when necessary. If it comes to it, we will still have a House, Senate, SCOTUS, Muh Constitution, all of it. But they will be drained of power and/or have power only insofar as the neo-Sulla/Caesar grants them power.

    As someone who desires the explicit survival of my kind, I would prefer a harder break with past political forms to a continuation of the American multi-ethnic empire under autocratic rule.

    • Aren’t we already doing that? The state is run by the bureaucracy, not the politicans. Trump is proving that. Our civil service is thoroughly corrupt. The idea that you can appoint a few political folks to the top jobs and assume that the rank and file will do what they ask is silly.

    • Agree. The expression of power will come from the public sector through the “private sector” in order to maintain the charade. The modern Informational-Industrial Complex is unlike anything seen in human hstory, and has still to be determined effect on how societies will change and form.

    • It reminds me of an essay I read on the account of a Roman patrician, Rutilius Namatianus, leaving (or perhaps abandoning) Rome in 416. He describes perplexing details along the way as he travels to his estates in Gaul – fields reclaimed by forest, roads rendered impassable by decay or infested with bandits, harbors silted up and deserted – and can’t quite understand what is happening. Rome seems so permanent; as the writer says, “there still were Roman Emperors, there still was a Roman Senate, there still was the city of Rome, perhaps still the largest town in Western Europe. And there still were Roman armies charged to defend the Empire against invaders. All that was to disappear fast, much faster than anyone could have guessed at that time. ”

      • Dr. Mabuse, this I gotta read.
        Half the population of the known world died when the Roman trade roads fell.

        • Gotta cite for that?

          I think it’s far more likely that the ability to conduct a census died rather than people.

          • Bile, Orson Scott Card, an LDS writer, posted an article about the toll of the trade collapse some years ago on his personal blog.

    • That is something people like you will have to make happen likely by force.

      This is not a technical problem, the US isn’t that robust anymore and our military while large isn’t large enough to stop anything in scale and there are plenty of people like you in it or who were former members anyway.

      This really is a social problem since Conservatives want peace, prosperity and order tend to be risk averse and in the US overly individualistic

      This makes organizing the kind of event that ends up “anyone 13 and over on the other side runs like hell or goes to the woodchipper” difficult .

      Worse Conservatives have been infected by Libertarian memes which until that mind virus wears off, will make taking authority difficult

      Having to be the bastards that tell people to stop smoking potent weed, watching porn and doing a host of other destructive and stupid things , all the while forcing public institutions into a desired model creates huge amounts of cognitive dissonance in the Right.

      Fundamentally revolutions including separations are illiberal and require an authoritarian state to prevent counter revolution, subversion or just plain corruption and crepulance from wrecking everything

      This is not the revolution is forever crap ala Castro as much as that interregnum of 40 years is really going to suck balls.

      Once Conservatives realize they basically have to build the Hallmark Movie society from the ground up after getting rid of the Left they can get started. They are natural builders after all

      Till then, its a Coffee Klatch of heavily armed Fudds

      • Pain will be the only motivation that gets conservatives to actually do something productive…On the Libertarian front I used to be one until I realized that around evil men it will get you enslaved or dead… Libertarianism only works if there is no evil men/women around otherwise it causes death and destruction…If good men don’t band together then evil men will run amuck…Still waiting on that thought to strike home…

        • Then you missed a crucial piece of the libertarian puzzle: the absolute right to defend oneself (within moral bounds – usually defined by Christian based principles) – as well as the absolute right to band together with other like minded men to defend themselves and their property against those who would do evil.

          The modern leftist state has bred this idea out of people’s heads so thoroughly that the states like MA used to legally enshrine the principle that you cannot defend yourself under almost any circumstances – into law. Defend yourself = prosecution and imprisonment. In MA you were supposed to leave your own home thru the back door – when evil entered thru the front. They changed the law – but you’ll still likely take a royal screwing from the state if you choose to defend yourself.

          I hear an awful lot of whining about “libertarianism” from people who it seems are just so thoroughly brainwashed by the modern leftist state that they simply cannot comprehend a world where people take on the responsibility of their own defense. They still can’t get it thru their thick skulls that the state will NEVER consistently be on YOUR side. It will always be on it’s OWN side – thru the vast majority of it’s existence. And it’s very existence is a breeding ground and an attractive nuisance – for evil people. It is therefore not only not on your side – but it’s actually actively working against you – and for your enemies

          Human beings are built to live in tribes. That’s the guiding underlying principle of all this white nationalism in the first place. I’d rather live amongst my own tribe – not a bunch of members of the Boogaloo tribe who keep stealing all my shit.

          The libertarian arguments for self defense are a hell of a lot closer to the way tribes handled crime – than the way the modern state (whose laws have been largely defined by leftists) ALLOWS you to handle crime. Which is pretty much – not at all.

          OMG – We can’t have people defending themselves – that would anarchy and we have vigilantes!! LOL.

          You know – I read an awful lot of whining on these pages in both Zman’s articles and in the comments section about both libertarianism and why white people don’t defend their own interests.

          To me there is a clear and rock solid connection between those two. People don’t defend their interests as white people because they have been “educated” , brainwashed – and beat about the head so relentlessly by THE STATE that they’re not supposed to ( as I already said: MA would prosecute you for not running away) – that it has bled into their entire worldview.

          A person who gets told they cannot defend themselves when attacked – will make that their response on pretty much everything, And implement it in all areas of their life. They will likely suppress actual physical action in defense of themselves – but they won’t be able to suppress their hindbrain telling them there is something wrong. But that is what excuses are for. ” He was turning his life around” ” It’s racist to connect black people and crime” – etc.

          The first time I really started reading good intellectual arguments for why a murderer coming thru my front door should be shot down – with prejudice – and I should not feel guilty about it – and the state is your enemy in this situation not your friend – was from “libertarian” writers. They were pretty much all right-leaning libertarians.

          Once I got there – it wasn’t much more than a sidestep to reach the place where I was against all immigration and understood all those red and black pills everybody talks incessantly about.

      • Ha, A.B., the idea that people acting normally “will destroy society!” is the usual Conservative canard.

    • Hahahahahahahaha

      Yeah – cryptocurrency – because you want the globohomo left to literally be able to track every move you make.

      Excellent idea.

      • 1. “Send me all your money and I will put it in a safe place where only you and I can access it”.

        2A. “Who are you? Never met you before in my life, buddy”.

        2B. “The number you are calling has been disconnected and there is no new number”.

        P.S. “Nigerian” is suggesting cryptocurrency. I laugh.

  14. I keep wondering how the warlord-ism will manifest itself in my neck of the woods. Its been a stable polity for so long, with a general sense of communitarianism since the state’s founding at the beginning of the 19th Century that it would take a social upheaval that is so dramatic for this too occur.

    Back to thinking…

    • Can see some possibilities in Utah for the violence triggering mechanism. Building up….city council of Provo voted to allow LGBT wierdos on floats in the 4th July parade. Virtue signaling! Prediction…Cedar City will shortly go down that path. Wish I’d moved to Panguitch smaller town early on. The fall is relentless.

      Second Dead Becky at U of U Logan in a year this week. Those young women are so brain washed by feminists, they have no common sense…no survival instinct….vibrant men are “exotic”…they’re on their back in 2 seconds and murdered. The 1st Dead Becky one was on her back by date 1 or 2…he took snaps of her hoo-hoo and when she went online and discovered his identity was a scam and broke up, he threatened to black mail her. She squealed and he murdered. The 2nd Dead Becky went to meet a vibrant date off a dating app at 3 a.m. in a park, and he brutally murdered her, dismembered her, dug a hole in his backyard, threw in her body parts and burned her up. Thanks Obama. Women dumber than rocks.

      These folks back here are so ridiculously annoyingly naive, easily led by Lefty culture and have no survival instinct. Trust me, they’ll take your eyeballs out before seeing reality.

      Probably the big trigger will be over guns. When the Dems take power, they’ll gun grab. For the Church to keep tax exempt status, they will capitulate, roll over and piss on their tummy, and stay out of the way of the gun grab or any other Imperial Capitol power grab. The Inter Mountain West will erupt over this. Anything that threatens their tax exempt status, the global international LDS church doesn’t have the backbone and will back down. The globalist LDS church will sacrafice their old roots in the West to maintain an international church.

      • Don’t you think the Church will schism first? I’m a Catholic and I realize that while local Catholics tend to be conservative nearly everywhere they remain loyal to Rome even though it’s now run by gays, sold out to the internationalist Left, and now trawling Africa for priests. Will the LDS rank and file go down that same path so willingly or will the American church breakaway?

        • Just spitballing here, but those Catholic priests and Protestant ministers in other lands tend to be a lot more conservative than the ones you find in the Vatican or here in the U.S. Could be popcorn and beer time watching how all that plays out. The LDS could get boomeranged by all that international stuff, when it all goes back to borders, language, and culture, led by the wards in other places.

          • “The LDS could get boomeranged by all that international stuff, when it all goes back to borders, language, and culture, led by the wards in other places.” Please elaborate…just not following your argument. The LDS church has more members outside the US than inside, so their interests lie outside…follow the money from the outside. The members outside the US, who come from mostly Marxist-lite countries, won’t care a rat’s tooshie what happens here as long as their temple toilet is clean and church doctrine is printed and distributed. Utah has deep LDS history, but we are expendable if push comes to shove. That’s what happens when a local Mom and Pop store becomes a 16 million members international globalist outfit.

          • RFF, the international churches may split away from the U.S. side, eventually. My point is that the U.S. congregations and denominations are waaay more liberal, generally, than those of the rest of the world. Some of the mainline churches are seeing the splits now, with the international churches telling the U.S. side they can have their gay stuff and their women ministers, but don’t let the door hit you in the butt on your way out. I don’t know how it eventually plays out, but the international churches are generally much more important to their congregants than the U.S. ones are to theirs. We could see a falling away of this liberal church stuff here in the U.S. over time, to be replaced from abroad by more conservative, non-white ministry. That would be an ironic turnabout.

          • Now I understand. Good point. The irony is LDS is going squishy, too. Next will be baptising homosexuals to keep the pews filled here in the states with gays and millennials. Don’t know how that will play in Brazil or Africa, but doesn’t sound like something they’ll go for. You know the joke…or is it….the Episcopal Church is just a large dating service for gays and lesbians. Hell..the Episcopal church here in town is run by crop haired lesbians.
            Hmmm…maybe the international LDS may eventually split from the stateside LDS.
            ” to be replaced from abroad by more conservative, non-white ministry. That would be an ironic” Somehow I doubt it. They would go head to head with black lives matter activists. The Obama types would hate them. Our ruling overlords would hate them.

        • The Church very recently has now allowed children of gays/lesbians to be baptized. You know where this is going. The cognitive dissonance in LDS land is growing. Civil war has not yet broken out nationally…. the church ain’t splitting yet.

          My opinion is the LDS Church will parallel the Catholic Church UNTIL the church hierarchy is pushed against the wall by the Imperial Capitol over tax exempt status. The split will come when the Church gets threatened, steps out of the way and throws its members in the Intermountain West under the bus, again probably over gun control. Meaning our ruling overlords will tell the church to shut up and deal if they want to keep those missionaries out in the field. And the people of the West will get shafted. By then the church will be baptising gays and lesbians.

  15. “…while America is headed to some form of non-violent Caesarism”

    The violence has already started and everybody is fanning the flames. No one is trying to quench this fire

    • I hope I am wrong, but at this point it seems the violence is guaranteed. The question is,what form will the destructor take? Organized and state directed like the Chicoms, full on Bosnian, or something in between?

    • Look at the history of political violence in postwar Europe through the 80’s and in America during the 60’s-70’s. We’re seeing an upswing but we’ve been through worse before. My dad had a side-job at the local college patrolling for Weatherman-style firebombs, vandalism etc… back in the day.

      • Agreed but back in the 70s the percentage of people involved in that kind of activity was very small. Today, the percentage of people that want to use violence is a significant fraction of the population and in some cases entire cities are lost. They just haven’t gotten to the bombs yet.

    • Not so much. This is a typical dissident talking point, but it doesn’t appear to be the case when you consider just how much more violent prior decades were in the US and how political turmoil in both parties has been much worse to boot; this is including the assassinations of primary candidates, riots outside conventions, flagrant stealing of nominations, etc.

      While there certainly are violent parties involved, eg. Antifa, they’re deployed as irregulars for some collection of establishment interests or a deep wing of the DOJ, probably both. Their job isn’t simply going door to door attacking anyone to the right. Their job is to secure public space as forbidden to anyone advocating things (ironically) subversive to the orthodoxy of neoliberalism.

      So the only way flames appear would be for some non-trivial faction of the right decided they would like to go tangle with Antifa full-time, and that would not last very long because the latter enjoys the backing of LEOs at all levels. So the flare up would quickly return to smoldering. Like it or not, violence isn’t an option for your side. You lose by default until and unless some miraculous defection of elites and footsoldiers happens. I wouldn’t hold my breath.

      • By comparison the USA of the past was relatively homogeneous. I don’t believe we can use it as a reference for future forecasts any longer.
        Violence comes in many forms other than direct force on force conflict.
        Perhaps you are correct, and the state will maintain a monopoly on violence like the Soviets, but this is violence none the less. Or perhaps we will see long term IRA style resistance to the state as an occupying force.
        There are a myriad of possible outcomes based on our current trajectory. Right now, I can’t see any of the peaceful ones as being at all likely. Again, I very much hope I am wrong.

        • Political violence is still homogeneous. Antifa is white and so are their targets. Blacks just mindlessly kill each other in the streets for no reason.

          • For all the time we waste on Antifa, I have come to the conclusion they are primarily a distraction rather than a serious paramilitary group. I base this conclusion on the following points of data.

            1. They predominantly appear in left-wing strongholds where they have tacit permission from the authorities.

            2. Watching footage of Antifa, I have seen individuals wearing safety vests standing in their groups. These persons seem to act as handlers. Due to their method of dressing coupled with basic mob psychology, it would also be easy to insert a few professionals dressed as common Antifa to teach them tactics, and spur them committing violent acts.

            3. Acting in left-wing territory, they are a source of theater and propaganda rather than a serious threat.

          • Street theater like those idiot puppets and Antifa is part of how Leftists movements retain solidarity and give themselves an oversized public presence

            It seems stupid to us conservatives but it works, or well worked to some degree for them in the past anyway

            Things seem to be shifting now though and I have no idea what will come.

        • Boomers will die quietly complaining and their descendants will either cower or flee due to being outnumbered and outgunned by a combination of the state itself and all the other tribal gangs that the state allows because they primarily attack and antagonize one another and aren’t white enough to be a threat. I base this prediction on how every other white minority population has behaved ever.

  16. I wanted to thank you for today’s post. I’ve had this uneasy feeling about you for some time and I couldn’t put my finger on it, but today you made it clear to me that you are just another egotistical statist. Your constant bashing of libertarians should have been the clue, but I tried to hang in there. However, since in your opinion Ran Paul is a “jerk” and is “buggering up the works”, I am no longer interested in what you have to say.
    Have a nice life.

      • Grumpy will grow up one day. I used lean heavily libertarian. I grew out of that gradually, then suddenly. Zman has affirmed my falling out from that ideology lately. Libertarianism feels like an old summer fling now. Some fond memories, but it never would have worked out.

      • You have mentioned that sometimes you wonder if you should stop kicking down at the little libertarian. I’ve always thought no of course not. This individualism baloney is the true sickness of our time. And here it is again the evil selfish “morality” of the libertarian.

        Kick them some more please.

    • My natural urges are quite libertarian, but I cannot stand the urge of what seems to be the majority of Libertarians to regard perfectly good principles as some sort of suicide pact. There are many examples but among the most important today are:

      “My principles include freedom of movement therefore I must support the invasion of my country by millions of collectivist invaders who will destroy any chance for a libertarianish domestic government.” Rand Paul is one of these.

      “My principles include support for free enterprise, so I must stand by and voice approval while giant multi-national corporations manipulate government and the media for purposes that are hostile to my own interests and to the health of the nation.”

        • Agree. Even libertarianism ain’t what it used to be.

          Same with capitalism and party politics: blank slate multiculti kills all it touches.

    • Proving Z’s point – this troll is a type-specimen for Rand Paul’s personality cult. As a recovering Ayn-bot, I can attest that no one who is genuinely committed to libertarianism as an ideology would take offense at criticism of Rand Paul. Ron had some legitimacy but Rand is an obvious triangulating grifter who has no ideological compass, merely a set of unconventional ideological poses he adopts when it’s situationally convenient. Advice for legitmate readers still clinging to the libertarian faith – keep reading this blog & ignore this trolling poseur.

      • The number of recovering Randroids and Libertarians on this comments section gives me hope, as one myself. We really ought to form a support group. “Hi, I’m X, and I’m a libertarian. I hit rock bottom when I went into work one day and found myself training Pajeet, my replacement from India. After I was laid off, I tried telling myself that it was because of the the free market and I would just have to work twice as hard. Then I started reading John Darbyshire, and my road to recovery had started…”

        • Woke corporations and demographics made me realize that libertarian principles are suicidal on a societal scale.

          • Libertarian principles – at least those espoused by what it seems are perceived as “libertarians” by most of the comment section here – only work if they are ALL adhered to.

            What I mean by that is: Ok – let’s have a free market and open borders. But people seem to completely forget that means ABSOLUTELY NO SOCIALISM OF ANY KIND. It also ABSOLUTE PROPERTY OWNERSHIP. Left tilting “libertarians” completely whitewash away those pieces of the puzzle.

            I used to have these arguments with friggin lefties ad nauseam as they constantly advocated for more and more immigration – as well as more and more welfare state. I’d tell them that if they wanted unfettered immigration – then the welfare state needs to go away, absolutely and completely.

            The only people I ever saw on the libertarian side that honestly addressed this was people in the LewRockwell camp. And they were doing it 15-20 years ago. They’d point out that with absolute property rights – if you didn’t like immigration you could just tell all the immigrants to get lost. Not having a place to live tends to get rid of people who don’t like freezing to death. They would also point out that immigration into this country is SUPPORTED by your tax dollars – which are forcefully extracted from you. Take all of that away – and it’s likely that about 75% of the immigration would disappear. Immigration would be more like it was back in the 1800’s or early 1900’s. You came here and had to work – or you DIED. That is absolutely NOT true in the current age.

            It’s also true that an absolute free market might push towards lower wages – but without all the overhead of running the leftist welfare – warfare state we have now, it’s also possible that wages would drop and make the US more competitive with the rest of the world – and therefore make US workers seem like a better bargain in the comparison.

            Even now many companies retain jobs in the US because even with the higher wages – white US workers work as hard or harder than the rest of the world – and usually work smarter as well.

            The left picks and chooses shit that benefit them. They might have “ideology” – but in my experience the only ideology that they truly believe in is the Church of Free Shit. They’ll contort and twist and bend any and all of their beliefs in their quest for free shit.

            And that includes lefties who like to call themselves “libertarians”.

            I respect Ron Paul, because he always made it clear there were sacrifices entailed with the philosophy he espoused.

            I don’t see that same belief system in the lefties that like to call themselves libertarians.

        • Similar story here. Being creatively destroyed is the reddest pill. Taleb laments its “necessity” in Antifragile. I suspect he’d be Our Guy if he’d been diversified out of his options gig before Black Swan.

    • Ex-Lib here. Don’t be so harsh. The overall message is sound. Such seems to be a theme with many of Z-man’s postings—curt and pejorative references to competing ideas. My hope is that some day Z-man will come to understand that such vitriol adds nothing to his message and is most likely counter productive to his efforts (which I assume is to build a population of right-but free, thinking folk). Rand Paul is simply wrong, and an explanation of why would add to the message, rather than detract as his current dismissive reference has. Certainly leaving out his now obligatory slight to Lib’s would have not detracted from today’s posting.

      • Compsci, you seem to be failing to grasp that this is war, and part of the reason the right has been losing for so long is their emphasis on being polite with people who want you dead, and your children in camps. One of the reasons I find Zman so refreshing is his willingness to call it like it is.

        I’ve been reading this blog for a very long time and I can tell you that very few other folks out there combine the thoughtful analysis, insight and wit as can be found here. I refuse to be polite with people who refuse to acknowledge my right to exist. I also refuse to be polite with the folks on “our side” who would quickly sell us out so that they can be the last people put against the wall. Screw them.

        • Outdoors, I believe it is you that perhaps lacks understanding, to wit—in how to conduct such a war and in what this war is about—ideas. No one’s mind is changed wrt to an idea by simply demonizing it’s proponents. The idea is what must be discredited.

          Similarly, movements are built/enlarged additively. Movements are purified subtractively. We seem to spend a lot time dissing the readers here, who are precisely the ones we need to educate, retain, and grow.

          No one says you need be polite to anyone, but you do need to be civil to communicate effectively.

          • Compsci, that is exactly why conservative, inc has been losing so elegantly and consistently for pretty much, ever. You go ahead and play nice, but I will not smile and nod at people who want me dead. Good luck with that.

        • Outdoors, twas the Conservatives who built all the tools for the Left to seize, and use. Today’s Left is largely a reaction to their utopian stupidities.

      • I disagree – I find that Zman’s dismissive and callous attitude towards libertarianism is one of the things that has helped me the most in moving on from the mindset. Anger directed toward evil is a good thing, and libertarian me-me-me-centered philosophy is certainly evil.

        • Badthinker, and just how did you learn that Libertarianism was wrong from the comment, “Rand Paul is a jerk”. What information was conveyed specifically about Libertarianism? How do I know more about such an idea? Well, I don’t—and neither do you. Rather what is conveyed—if anything—is that ex-Libertarians following this group are dopes for once having believed in Rand Paul—and via repeated dissing of Lib’s, seem cast into a void from which there is no redemption. At some point, I suspect ex-Lib’s will get the message that they are not welcome ala Grumpy above . A similar point I’ve made wrt Boomers and the general disparaging they receive.

          This is no way to grow a movement.

          • I was deeply involved with the libertarian movement for many years. Now I wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole. I remain in contact with many of my former colleagues and I can assure you that, in most cases, they have become indistinguishable from SJWs. It’s all about diversity, trannyism, open borders and…muh free trade…by which they mean stripping the west of its remaining industries and shipping them off to China.

            Admittedly, a few of them still do support RKBA but most of them now spend their active time bemoaning insufficient third-world invasion and screeching about “Trump’s tariffs”.

            Just as a test I posted on a well known UK libertarian blog about a month ago calling for everyone to join me in demanding the restoration of free association. Do you want to guess how many signed on? That’s right: none. Not a single one of them would raise a whisper for that particular form of freedom. Of course, they know the implications and don’t like them one bit.

            Yes, they are a bunch of jerks and, for all intents and purposes, they may as well be on the other side.

        • Bad, the Z certainly does provide that kick in the azz. It’s like that 2×4 to get the donkey’s attention.

          I pine for libertarianism, Constitutionality, local capitalism- but that means staying stuck in a nostalgic past, romanticizing the good old days.

          Note to self: the past is, well, past.
          It is what it is, now.

        • I always perceived any libertarian values I held as a direct counter punch to the constant you must give give give or we will take take take – that I always got out of the left.

          The current trend of constantly saying ” give back” is what I’m talking about. It’s all I hear. Constant exhortations to “give back”

          Give back what exactly? Nobody showed up on my doorstep to help when I was humping my ass for 10 years to build my own house. They only showed up with a clipboard after it was done to re-assess and raise my tax bill. I wasn’t offered any extras over and above what I had received before from the town BTW – after that tax bill got raised.

          So what exactly am I supposed to “give back”? Am I supposed to spend the next ten years of my life playing Johnny Appleseed and planting a bunch of trees to take the place of the ones converted into lumber to build my house?

          Guess what – that’s the lumber company’s friggin job. Thats what THEY got paid for.

          Any libertarian values I ever held were in direct response to the never ending intrusion of the left into my life. And their constant claims about how “without government we wouldn’t roads!!”.

          It’s bullshit – and it’s always been bullshit. The truth of the world is that INDIVIDUALS are responsible for most technological advancement. (white individuals in fact)

          A friggin government lab didn’t invent the lightbulb. And even if you’re talking about government led efforts – like the atom bomb during WW2 – that was made up of a few individuals who did most of the brain work that made it all possible. Without those crucial individuals – it likely never would have happened.

          It surely would not have happened if a government led magic dirt believing task force had just gathered up a bunch of random women and negroes and tossed them into Los Alamos.

      • Z has explained his justified contempt for Rand Paul in the past. Nutshell version – Paul is another John McCain, striking a maverick pose for his own optics while undermining the actual interests of the people he pretends to represent, and somehow his alleged iconoclasm doesn’t ruin his chummy relationships with guys like Karl Rove.

      • I’m still an old-style libertarian, as outmoded as a dinosaur. The idea of freemen has been crushed under the “private”-prison Right and the “public”-media Left.

        Since our ethnically based Constitution is dead, so is honest libertarianism.

    • Like many others I used to have a thing for Rand. That phase passed.

      In some ways she was right on the money, but totally missed the larger point. Her ideal society could only work if it were entirely composed of highly intelligent people with an enormous degree of personal integrity.

      Obviously few such people exist, and a group of them would do well regardless of the circumstances.

      I still consider myself somewhat libertarian, in the sense that if your personal life remains private and does not harm others, I don’t really care about it.

      I also find the libertarian ideal to be a useful lens to view the world, a kind of archetype.

      Regrettably, certain cohorts of people will only behave if someone makes them, and thus libertarianism remains solely a thought experiment.

    • Oh no! Zman, it look like you lost yet another Libertarian! What ever will you do?

      • Outdoor, Z-man will have one less follower, perhaps one less convert, and will be the poorer for it, not the better.

    • Rand Paul and others who stood to not allow the President emergency authority to build the wall have shown us all who they are. Rand can stand on his virtuous platform of separation of powers all he wants but that position is not relevant when the country is being destroyed by invaders and little time left, if not too late already, to stop it.

      It always come down to people, supposedly on our side, wanting to play by the rules and fight fair vs those who will just beat you with baseball bats wrapped in barbed wire. The Rand Paul philosophy is as worthless as Buckley conservatism in the U.S. today.

      • I think many people have a fundamental misunderstanding of the NAP.

        The fight started before anyone here was born. It’s not going to end in our favor by clinging to principles and dithering.

        There are two states of existence: life or death. There is no honor in choosing death. I speak from personal experience.

        It’s like that old saw about Christianity: by all means, turn the other cheek, but because God only gave you two, the second time you get smacked deck the bastard.

    • May your job be outsourced by a corporation, your children sold drugs, and read stories by drag queens.

  17. It seems America has a MSM party that is cohesive and stays on point. Not a direct vote in the legislature but a hell of a lot of influence. That, or the other way around, a support and media mechanism that provides cover and services for the Progs.

    At any rate, we all have AOC that cute little brown freshman air head that provides the wisdom and leadership this nation so desperately need.

    • Donkey Chompers is a harbinger of Numerican leadership to come. Latin American politics is either authoritarian or chaotic because she’s their “talented tenth.” African politics even more so. We do have an MSM party but they be slippin. My phrase of the day – the diversity tiger they rode to power will end up riding them.

      • Exile, when I first read your comment, I thought you called AOC their “talented teeth” instead of their “talented tenth.”

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