The un-Americans

A popular argument from the Judeo-Christians, mostly in response to people like Ilhan Omar and other anti-Israel advocates, is that one cannot be anti-Israel without also being anti-Semitic. Now, in this context, “Judeo-Christian” applies to the Jewish pundits, who are primarily pro-Israel, but have an exclusively Christian audience. People like Ben Shapiro and Dennis Prager. Both of whom are tireless advocates for Israel and promiscuously use the phrase “Judeo-Christian” in their arguments.

Their claim works as follows. It’s not that being anti-Zionist is just a ploy by the anti-Semites. It’s that the very nature of Jewishness is tangled up in the existence of Israel, which transcends the current state of Israel. According to their argument, Israel the idea, as well as the country, is what defines Jewishness. To oppose Israel, especially its right to exist, is to oppose that which makes being a Jew possible. Therefore, opposing Israel, by definition, makes that person an anti-Semite.

It is a curious argument, when you examine the implications. There is no doubt that Israel the concept is an inextricable part of Jewish identity. Anyone who has watched the move The Ten Commandments gets that. The Judeo-Christians, however, take this further and move beyond the concept of Israel to the physical country itself. It is hard to know if this is something Jews accept, but we do have example of Jews that have opposed Zionism, so some Jews oppose some aspects of Israel.

Let’s just assume, for the sake of argument, that Prager and Shapiro are right about this and Israel and Jews are one in the same. The first conclusion, the most obvious one, is that Israel is an ethno-state. Sure, anyone can become a Jew, but that is like saying anyone can become a physicist. It may be true in theory, but in reality the conversion rate to Judaism rounds to zero. Jewish law requires the rabbi to strongly discourage gentiles from converting to Judaism.

The other conclusion from the Shapiro-Prager argument is that Jews are, by nature, primarily loyal to Israel. For a Jew to oppose the very essence of what makes him a Jew is an unsolvable paradox. In order to be authentically Jewish, a Jew has to adhere to that which makes one Jewish. If loyalty to Israel comes before everything else, that means all diaspora Jews are guests. They can and do work with their hosts, but in the end, their first loyalty has to be to Israel and the Jewish people.

This is, the argument Hazony makes in his book The Virtue of Nationalism. He does not apply it to Jews in the diaspora, but that is the implication. If Jews are a nation, then the primary loyalty of all Jews must be to that nation. He tries to run the “anyone can be a Jews” line through his argument, but that would invalidate all of his claims about Zionism, so it must be decoration. The implication here is clear. Jews are a nation, spread out around the world, but their ancestral land is Israel.

Another implication of this link between anti-Zionism and antisemitism is that Ben Shapiro is lying when he says ideology trumps race. After all, if Zionism is just another ideological viewpoint, then so is anti-Zionism. Yet, Shapiro insists that being opposed to Zionism immoral on its face. The only way that can be true is if Zionism is based in biology, rather than ideology. Therefore, opposing Zionism is the same as racism, which means that Shapiro thinks race transcends ideology after all.

A possible way around this problem of Jews being a guest population is the claim that America is the new Israel or an extension of Israel. This is something that sells to the Christian Zionists and solves the problem of loyalties. America, according to this theory, is a both a defender of Israel and a staging ground for Jews who will one day return home during the ingathering of the Jewish diaspora. Aliya, the return to Israel, is a core idea of Zionism and it is included in Israel’s Scroll of Independence.

This has appeal to Christian Zionists in America, who believe that the gathering of the diaspora in Israel is in accordance with Bible prophecy and a prerequisite for the Second Coming of Jesus. Christian Zionism has its roots in the 17th century America with the Puritans. It turns up in the 18th century and especially the 19th century with the abolitionists, so it has a long history in America. As a result, there is a large audience for this form of Zionism among American Christians.

The problem with this line of reasoning is that it means America is not really a nation or even a country. It’s just a temporary staging area. Loyalty to America, therefore, is contingent on American policy toward Israel. That is as un-American as you can get, as it denies the very existence of America as a country, much less a nation. Even here, the end result of the Judeo-Christian model is one where the Zionist can have no loyalty to America, as America does not exists, outside its role in Zionism.

This logical problem is why smarter Jews have always opposed this line of reasoning with regards to Israel and especially Zionism. In fact, Jews in the diaspora have tended to oppose Israel. The ADL, for example, has steadfastly rejected the argument that anti-Zionism is antisemitism. They argue that Israel is just another country without any special claims upon Jews. Whether they are sincere or not is debatable, but at least their logic allows them to be loyal Americans and Jewish.

That is, fundamentally, the problem with people like Prager and Shapiro. In their zeal to inculcate pro-Israel sentiment, they define themselves as both un-American and opposed to the very concept of America. Worse yet, they encourage Christians to sublimate their national loyalty to the ends of another nation. In order to sell this, they have to lie about their own intentions and their own beliefs. They demand you place ideology over biology, while they place biology ahead of ideology.


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MemeWarVet
Guest
MemeWarVet

Around the time of the Iraq War, the leading Jewish voices on American television were liberals and were taking the ADL position described above. There was a huge, untapped market for a Jewish face to tell Christians what they wanted to hear.

Enter Dennis Prager, and a few years later, the Littlest Chickenhawk.

Range Front Fault
Guest
Range Front Fault

And now for something completely different…….the Mormon take on Israel and Jews! Teaser: The Big Ideological Belief is …..Mormons are also a chosen people…because they too are Jews! Am not a Mormon but live in deep Mormon country of Southern Utah. By osmosis from my environment I shall flail around a bit to summarize this topic. Mormonism, or the Latter Day Saints, teaches that its adherents are either direct descendants of the House of Israel or adopted into it as converts. As such, Mormons regard Jews as a covenant people of God and hold them in high esteem. The Church… Read more »

MemeWarVet
Guest
MemeWarVet

To add to what RFF said, Mormons have a ceremony called a “Patriarchal Blessing” where a Church Elder does some crystal ball-tier mumbo jumbo and then tells the individual being “blessed” which of the 12 tribes of Israel they belong to. Really oddball stuff.

Bob
Guest
Bob

I’m surprised how much you got right, but not as surprised as I am that you got all that info without having joined first. I would like to offer a couple corrections as well as a different view point. I’ve been in Provo for nine years, so that might explain why. Not a big deal, but most LDS don’t think we’re Jews. Adopted members of the tribe of Israel, like anyone who joins the LDS church, but not Jews. There’s stuff about being literally, distantly, and minutely descended from the tribe of Ephraim, which is why you joined the LDS… Read more »

Range Front Fault
Guest
Range Front Fault

Bob….thanks for the time you put into your thought-full response. Will set the stage by saying here in Cedar 3 hours south of you have never heard my neighbors or ward say they are Jews and I stand corrrected…yet by being descended from Manasseh and Ephraim there is an uber strong solidarity with Israel. A part of the Tribe. Check out LDS Living to see endless travel agencies arranging trips to Israel. My father went all Jack Mormon then went all Trotsky in the 1930s. I was raised secular yet outgrew my anti-religious asininity. Chose Utah then escaped the Bay… Read more »

Exile
Guest
Exile

Interesting insider stuff. I need to dig into the Mormons more as they’re an example of a pretty successful and distinctive American separatism that managed to avoid total secession and subsequent Lincolning. Any good histories, sources anyone can suggest are appreciated.

MemeWarVet
Guest
MemeWarVet

Exile, it’s interesting you’d mention “Lincolning,” because there were close calls
In the 19th Century. The “Utah War” probably would have ended a lot differently if the Bearded Tyrant had been running the show a mere three years later…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_War?wprov=sfti1

Range Front Fault
Guest
Range Front Fault

Hi Exile! They avoided Lincoln because they had escaped to Utah! Will get back to you with, how shall I say it, a list of middle of the road take and history of LDS. If you read the staunch LDS stuff, your eyeballs will roll. If you read the secular hatey-hate on Mormons stuff, your eyeballs will roll. Will come up with something Reasonable and get back. Night has fallen.

Member

Exile, unfortunately a lot of what makes mormonism “successful” is derived from a cultic leadership. A better and less loony example are the conservative Anabaptist groups in America like the Hutterites and Amish.

Bob
Guest
Bob

Glad you’re enjoying Cedar! I’ve only been there a couple times, but loved it. Too hot for me, though. The literal descendant of Israel thing. The Ten Tribes were scattered, supposedly throughout the world, after the Babylonian conquest. So the Gathering of Israel means, in part, doing missionary work throughout the world to find the descendants of the lost ten tribes. Converts are thought to be part of the lost ten tribes. Or if they’re not, they’re adopted into the House of Israel and it’s practically the same thing. But yeah, big affinity for Israel. I knew a lot of… Read more »

dad29
Guest

There are lots of errors about the question of “Israel.” The Catholic church has a nuanced understanding which will make Prager and Shapiro unhappy. “The Catholic Church is able to acknowledge the truth that is found in both positions. Along with the dispensationalists the Church acknowledges that God does still have plans for the Jews as a unique people (Catechism of the Catholic Church 674). Paul clearly indicates this in his writings, especially in Romans 9–11, where he indicates God continues to fulfill his promises about the Jewish people by preserving a remnant of Jewish believers in Christ (11:1–5). This… Read more »

Exile
Guest
Exile

“Supersessionism has formed a core tenet of the Christian Churches for the majority of its existence. Christian traditions that have traditionally championed Covenant Theology (including the Roman Catholic, Reformed and Methodist teachings of this doctrine), have taught that the moral law continues to stand.[6]

Subsequent to and because of the Holocaust, some mainstream Christian theologians and denominations have rejected supersessionism.[7]:2–3”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersessionism

MemeWarVet
Guest
MemeWarVet

Any tradition that teaches salvation outside of Christ is heresy, period. Paul’s writings are pretty clear that a remnant will be restored and become ethnically Hebraic Christians. Simply being a Jew doesn’t get you a free pass to Heaven.

Al from da Nort
Guest
Al from da Nort

Exile;
Uhhh, wikipedia is *not* to be trusted on any subject important to anyone on the broad Right. And this most particularly includes Christian Theology.

Exile
Guest
Exile

It’s an accurate summary in this case. The (((moderating))) varies. Never rely solely on Wiki, but it’s not by definition wrong on every subject we might broadly intersect with. (((Moderators))) would “statue-poem” the concept. Jesus’ covenant replaced that of the Jews according to pre-Shoah teaching. The idea of Christians as the Jewish Junior Varsity to the “still-Chosen” is the (((neo-theology.)))

dad29
Guest

Yes. The Catholic Church still teaches supersession, no matter the “church of nice” twits (within) who want otherwise.

Al from da Nort
Guest
Al from da Nort

dad; I believe you are mistaken re Protestants, particularly Evangelical Protestants. The position you so well articulate is well within the consensus Evangelical Protestant understanding, AFIK.* The main difference, if it is one, is that we consider the ‘Church’ to be ‘The Church Universal’ and not necessarily any denomination: IOW, all of Christendom. I would add that many (not all) Evangelicals believe it to be essential for actual Jews to be in the Land of Israel at the time of the Second Coming of Our Lord. As it is with many other situations, trouble comes from the prideful idea that… Read more »

dad29
Guest

Thanks, Al, but that’s not my work. It is a quotation from the linked essay, which has a few more subtleties (which might include your understanding of the Evangelical position.)

8Ball
Guest
8Ball

My Jewish friends (inevitable social context of any Ivy grad) tell me that if Shapiro doesn’t stop wearing that beanie for public appearances they’ll accept Christ as their savior. I believe them. Just looks silly.

Member

So if we nuke Israel, Jews will all go away?

Juri
Guest
Juri

Probably yes. But white religious lunacy remains and until some other nation invents a some kind of Transnistria or Kiribati Christianity where white evangelicals can have the Jesus abort landing airstrip, the white evangelicals will spend their time burning witches and racists.Every pig finds the dirt and every white evangelical finds something to burn or bomb in the name of Jesus Christ. Including churches in Serbia or Syria. So relax, fuck Jesus and support Israel

Ursula
Guest
Ursula

I think it should be, f*ck Israel and support Jesus. It was the American/Israeli jews and the military industrial complex who had Clinton/NATO bomb Europe (the same people who have us bombing the Middle East). Proper Christianity has been destroyed in the U.S. a long time ago; the main Christianity of the U.S. has been turned into a perverted, pro-war, zionist, pro-degeneracy abomination. God forgive you for saying something so offensive about Jesus. It was embarrassing for you and made me feel terrible.

Ursula
Guest
Ursula

I’m afraid that would leave millions of them in New York and Los Angeles, among them the very rich and influential.

Al from da Nort
Guest
Al from da Nort

BileJ;
If the Bible is *not* the inspired Word of God, then yes, you might be correct. Otherwise, consequences are unknowable (by us) but not at all trivial. Consider: Assyria is destroyed and gone; Babylon is destroyed and gone; Germany has destroyed itself but is not yet gone…

Joshua Shalet
Guest
Joshua Shalet

True Zionists actually live in Israel I’m a Jew from the UK but Israel is my true home I look forward to the white nationalist uprising in the west so that all Jews will return to where they truly belong Jews need to get out of America and leave American to take care of its own interests I reject the notion of “a state for me but not for thee”, it really pisses off the gentiles and invites even more anti semitism The truth about the Jews: we are a nation and ethnicity, and Judaism/The Torah is our national creed/constitution… Read more »

Member

Why, if I may ask, are you still in the U.K; and not yet in Israel?

Joshua Shalet
Guest
Joshua Shalet

I do live in Israel. Been living there since since 2010

Member

By God, an honest Jew!

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

you misspelled “troll”

Member

:-)))))))))))

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

what is that supposed to be?

Member

I’m laughing.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

glad i asked then 🙂

Joshua Shalet
Guest
Joshua Shalet

Thanks, that means a lot to me

Exile
Guest
Exile

“No two Jews are the same and you will never find two Jews who agree on everything” Technically true, but also applies to any two humans, and too often cited as a conclusive refutation of the idea that any two Jews could ever work together against the goys, which is manifestly false. “Really we are supposed to dwell alone (in Israel) and leave the gentiles to do their thing their way, oh and for the love of God, stop taking foreign aid” We have the basis for a lasting cultural ceasefire and eventual peace with this. Let’s work together to… Read more »

Al from da Nort
Guest
Al from da Nort

Exile;
So true about human dissent being inborn. In the Dutch Reformed Church there is a standing joke about fractiousness (Yes there really are Dutch jokes) 🙂
– one Dutchman, a pair of skates.
– two Dutchmen, a church
– three Dutchmen, schism

Member

That seems to be related to a classic Jewish joke:

“If there are two Jews on a desert island, how many Synagogues do they need?”

“Three. One for each, and a third to switch to when they get angry.”

Carrie
Guest

Your description sounds a lot like “Novus Ordo” New Age “feel good” Catholics and true orthodox, Traditional (Latin Mass for starters) Catholics (there are very few).
Everyone is so divided on so much minutiae, that it seems impossible to get on the same page.
But luckily for ALL of us: Nothing is impossible for God.

ronehjr
Guest
ronehjr

Is punctuation considered anti-Semitic?

Melon13
Guest
Melon13

You get it right. By many Jews taking a anti white nationalism stance this exposes the Jewish Nationalism question. You can’t be a vocal Jewish nationalist then turn around and deny white nationalism. It creates resentment.

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

Interesting use of logic. Food for thought. Is it possible that Prager and Shapiro are not aware that they are implicitly lying to themselves? Shapiro is too cleaver by half, but Prager always seems to be a staunch supporter of American values, albeit he has of course a blind spot for Israel.

MemeWarVet
Guest
MemeWarVet

Prager is the essence of “Gatekeeper” as defined by Z in this week’s podcast.

Exile
Guest
Exile

I used to believe Prager was sincere but Z in particular has brought to attention things Prager has said that changed my mind. He’s a much more experienced, subtle, sophisticated and smooth operator than Shapiro

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

Shapiro has repudiated his “transfer” column https://bit.ly/2ucuQN7 repeatedly, appealing to his youth at the time. In interviews and debates, nobody ever asks him what gave him such ideas when he was a teenager or why he renounced them.

Lorenzo
Guest
Lorenzo

Fine, but there are bigger things to worry about than Israel. Don’t forget the apparatchiks who are still around waiting for a successful coup to solidify their control of the government.

Exile
Guest
Exile

Those apparatchiks are backed by Sheldon Adelson, Paul Singer, George Soros, and a Zionist clown limo including these guys (https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/jewish-billionaires-worth-812-b-1.5238726_) If you’re worried about anti-White anti-populists controlling the United States, you need to worry about Israel.

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Guest
Ris_Eruwaedhiel

One reason is because one-half to two-thirds of donations to the Democrats and one-quarter to one-third to the Republicans are from Jewish sources. Money is the mother’s milk of politics.

Mayor Buttplug is the Jewish favorite this year. Hollywood, I assume.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Ris, I’m thinking that the gay community has a lot of $$$ to throw at a fellow traveler.

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Guest
Ris_Eruwaedhiel

Hollywood is full of homos. Corey Booker hasn’t come out.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

The crossover between gay, Hollywood, Jew, and lots of money to throw at political campaigns is likely very, very large.

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Guest
Ris_Eruwaedhiel

Definitely.

BadThinker
Guest
BadThinker

Yeah, not having children to use up the cash in those double income households means they have lots of cash to throw around. At least, Gay men do. The Lesbians are usually poorer.

Lorenzo
Guest
Lorenzo

I didn’t think Adelson, Singer and Soros live in Israel, do they? Whatever religion Comey, Strzok, John Brennan, John McCain, James Clapper, Susan “The Unmasker” Rice, Rosenstein, the other miscreants and Obama himself profess or did profess, they did their stuff as American citizens right here.

You don’t have to hunt conspirators in Israel, look in DC.

Exile
Guest
Exile

Do you honestly think that because a billionaire lives in America he can’t favor Israel’s interests? I’m tempted to snark but let’s stay serious. Read those billionaires’ own words regarding what they believe about their race-nation. I don’t exonerate any DC lizards you mentioned but your determination to ignore the billionaire donors and focus on the paid stooges doesn’t make sense. It’s the opposite of noticing.

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

Really? I think Israel is right up there. Not because of their history of spying, dealing arms and providing material support to our enemies, staging “false-flag” attacks, and refusing to extradite criminals, but because of the influence they wield over our elected officials due to dominating the donor class in both parties.

Lorenzo
Guest
Lorenzo

@Return…
Small potatoes compared to what China is doing.

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

Lorenzo,

It is possible to hold two or more thoughts in the mind. The same goes for concerns. You’ve made your point, you dont consider Israel a prime threat. That doesn’t mean U.S. involvement in the Middle East is unworthy of concern. I give you our wars for the past 30 years as counter-evidence. Stop with the “waving off” gestures. This is the subject for today.

Lorenzo
Guest
Lorenzo

Penitent Man,

Are you the guy who defines the Subject of the Day? I’ve not seen one declared here before.

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

No Sir, Zman did. Everyone is riffing off of that central idea.

Exile
Guest
Exile

To paraphrase Queen Ann on Twitter the other day: “Yes, that makes sense. Everyone around Epstein was a HUGE China supporter – Dershowitz, Wexner, Maxwell, Barry Krischer and Epstein himself. Just look at their philanthropies. It screams CHINA https://twitter.com/JoeNBC/status/

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

There was a trend among politicians back around the time McCain ran for President – where they’d do the glamour shot of them sitting on the edge of their desk , or sometimes behind it. Usually figured very prominently was one of those little wooden desk stands with a crossed US and Israeli flag. The one that stands out in my head was a sitting at a desk shot of Sarah Palin when she was McCain’s running mate. I do also remember that there were a bunch of eyebrows raised one of the times Romney ran for President , because… Read more »

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

what would be very helpful in all such discussions as this one, is a systematic approach. which groups are opportunistic in their trouble making (i.e. a symptom rather than a cause), and which are the source of trouble (remove them and other groups settle down). which groups are troublesome, but also have at least some positive contributions.

to my mind, the irish have been at least as damaging to America as the jews.

LineInTheSand
Guest
LineInTheSand

What percentage of the Irish lecture whites on their racism and begin their lecture with, “My fellow white people?” What percentages of the Irish versus the J3ws are in favor of de facto open borders, would you guess?

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

way to miss the point, Jethro.

Anna
Guest
Anna

All Ashkenazi Jews descend from 4 European originally non Jewish women. They have right to call themselves white.

Exile
Guest
Exile

Tell that to Rosanna Arquette and the 1000’s of other Jews who’ve been caught on social media doing “fellow whites/I’m Jewish not white” shapeshifting. Pick a team

Jews would never let an outside group dictate who gets to call themselves a Jew. Whites are the only group with the right to define White.

LineInTheSand
Guest
LineInTheSand

Hi Anna. Sincere question: What percentage of Ashkenazi Jews would you guess identify in their hearts, disregarding what they may say publicly, as non-white?

Anna
Guest
Anna

I came from the Soviet Union originally. We Jews only were separated from others not by the skin color as we had same but by stamp in the 5th line of the passport reading “Jew”.
Soviet authorities had same fear of us as many do on this board. Our group of Jews doesn’t care if we are white or brown, as long as our kids and grandkids aren’t persecuted anymore.
Can’t speak of American Jews. We vote different from them (80% Republican), we think they have such an open mind that their brains fell out long time ago.

LineInTheSand
Guest
LineInTheSand

I appreciate your civil reply. I assume the Russians don’t stamp “J3w” on passports anymore. What year would you guess that the Russians stopped that practice?

Anna
Guest
Anna

When Soviet Union was no more. By the way Putin is the only Jewish friendly “tsar” in Russian history.

MemeWarVet
Guest
MemeWarVet

Off topic, but I wish Putin would just name himself Tsar, or put a pliable Romanov puppet back on the throne.

Exile
Guest
Exile

Mongols aren’t White regardless of what the Soviets put on their passports. To be fair, we may be losing something in translation in this conversation. To clarify where we’re coming from on this blog, “White” isn’t just skin color, color is a superficial characteristic. You might better understand this as “European” in the genetic/ancestral sense, Celts, Germanics, Slavs, Finns and some other small groups, and their emmigrants in America, Australia, Canada etc… We don’t “fear you” as a group, we oppose the Jewish oligarch-class who helped pillage Russia in concert with the goyim apparatchiks and party bosses, Soviet and post-Soviet.… Read more »

Anna
Guest
Anna

Jews and people with Jewish DNA end up with big chunk of wealth and big chunk of scientific achievements in many countries. Hated for the first, disregarded for the second. It had to be G-d’s plan to see how long the humanity He created will continue being hateful.

Exile
Guest
Exile

So much for trying to be nice.

You have to go back, because we live here.

We don’t care about your wealth, your achievements, or your sorry history. This isn’t your country, it’s ours, and we don’t want or need you here. Go to Israel, back to Russia or straight to Sheol.

Mark Taylor
Guest
Mark Taylor

Strangely, Jews don’t end up wealthy in Israel. They have much lower incomes there.

Ursula
Guest
Ursula

Mark, maybe because there aren’t as many whites around to exploit and get rich off of in Israel.

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

Anna, Yes you nailed it. We gentiles are jealous of Jewish success and exist only as a foil to test God’s Chosen. It couldnt be that we grow tired of Jewish influence litigating for only those rights that suit them and against those that don’t (I give you the ACLU’s revealing decision to not defend speech they dislike or their opposition to our 2nd Amendment). We couldn’t possibly resent their purveyance of smut and their being at the forefront of whatever corsens our society further. It must be our place as mere tool to purify the Jewish people when we… Read more »

Zeroh Tollrants
Guest
Zeroh Tollrants

There’s a difference between fearing and loathing, dear Anna
You & your kind like to blur that line continuously in regards to gays, trannies, Muslims, etc. with the phobia suffix.
Also, I would have bet money you were a Russian Jew. The same blind
arrogance comes out in all of your writings. It’s extremely off-putting, and you see it with Bari Weiss, Max Boot, Jennifer Rubin, Noah Rothman & even the patron saint of Lolbergtarianism, Ayn Rand.
Very, very off-putting & wholly unlikeable.

Ursula
Guest
Ursula

Why do you think jews had passports that indicated they were jews? Was it something jews did to the Christian people they lived among? Or were the Christians just mean people?

Member

Admittedly, it took a long time to assimilate them. But it did finally happen. There are still some who cling to their miseries. The Kennedys come to mind.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

my understanding is they are behind the tradition of city machine politics and all the corruption that brought. they also brought other lawless traditions here. as has been mentioned, they eventually did assimilate, but that doesn’t mean their presence wasn’t harmful. am open to any knowledgeable replies as far as changing my mind on the subject.

Exile
Guest
Exile

Italians, Irish & Balkans strained the hell out of the US political system – clannish, bloc voting, politically passive Catholic outlook vs. politically engaged English-German Prot outlook. The lack of massive welfare for immigrants, America’s stronger culture and the 1924-1965 moratorium assimilated them. All of that said, there’s no comparison with Jews. No group has been more socially destabilizing and corrosive, more resistant to assimilation or punched way above its numbers in wealth and cultural influence. Apple-Orange.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

as i said, it would be helpful to have a systematic ranking, instead of the poo-flinging-chimps response this topic evokes. i guess when all you have is poo, that’s what you go with.

Exile
Guest
Exile

You’re mischaracterizing the responses. I almost never see “poo” here. The gut level response that criticizing Jews is “icky/disgusting” is hard to kick – you’ve been hammered with it all your life. Swallow the gut level response and think the upsetting comments through logically. Read up on the subject even though you’re reading “black books.” It gets easier to see the facts for what they are and resist the Pavlovian response over time. It’s possible to level irrefutable and entirely responsible and logical criticism at Jews if you learn to filter your emotions and think hard enough.

Zeroh Tollrants
Guest
Zeroh Tollrants

Karl, my oldest Irish ancestors were brought to America in the 1658-1665 time frame as child slaves. Yes slaves, NOT indentured servants. They were Prots not Caths, and we’re relegated to dirt farming subsistence. From my understanding, the problems with Irish arose with the later, much large Cath wave immigrants coming in with the Italians, Jews, Germans, etc. that settled in the NE, becoming involves in government and the mobs. Oops, that’s probably redundant. Maybe someone who knows more about the later waves & how they are woven into the American story can add more, but other than books, movies,… Read more »

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

James LaFond has done a lot of work on this topic. Really fascinating 🙂

Exile
Guest
Exile

I read this as clutching at equivalence straws b/c criticizing Jews is “icky.” All that cultural effort is really paying off, gotta hand it to them.

Exile
Guest
Exile

Criticizing Jews is “icky” so whataboutism Irish…

dad29
Guest

Nope. The Irish are the ‘lost tribe’….so it’s the same difference.

Vegetius
Guest
Vegetius

I still say burning their flag while waving ours is the way to go.

Official Bologna Tester
Guest
Official Bologna Tester

@ Z People. I am totaly bored s–tless with the J crap, see ya tomorrow.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Yup. I’ll just note that a lot of people are using the U.S. as a staging area for something else entirely. Also that if you take out the U.S. and Israel, the population of Jews approaches zero.

Exile
Guest
Exile

This is OBT’s “numbers” argument again. George Soros is just one guy, why is everyone so upset about him? Barack Obama is just one guy….

Wealth and influence count for more than numbers in a one-man-one vote media plutorcracy.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Both Soros and Obama are the visible front men for organizations that go way beyond one guy each.

Exile
Guest
Exile

True, but off the point. The numbers argument is intended to discredit and minimize criticism of vastly disproportionate Jewish influence in politics, culture and finance. To the extent it suggests “what’s the big deal, there aren’t enough of them to matter, you’re paranoid” it’s very misleading and counter-factual.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

My point is that the JQ is mostly an Israel and U.S. question. Try to name a third country that is so permeated with Jews through the top end of education/finance/media/politics/law/medicine. I’m sure there are a few countries out there, but the JQ has the most relevance, IMHO, in the U.S. and in Israel. But the feeding frenzy that exists today is now piling on from every direction. The horse has left the barn, and finding some sort of good answer to the JQ is just a small piece of what we need to do to get back to some… Read more »

Zeroh Tollrants
Guest
Zeroh Tollrants

What a pleasant thought. Thank you, Dutch.

james wilson
Member

Too bad they’re not bored with you.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

The recent Jew-fest around here is interesting. Some people can’t shut up about Jews, but that’s a group that I’ve seen for years. It’s your group that’s intriguing. You seem to find the discussion of Jewish influence and its role in where we are almost distasteful. I get the people (probably because I am one) who feel that too much discussion of Jews is counter-productive to our number one goal: Recruitment. (We know that the media and academia (both heavily influenced, if not down right controlled by Jews) are our main impediment to getting whites to think of themselves as… Read more »

Ex-Pralite Monk
Guest
Ex-Pralite Monk

I am reluctant to discuss Jewish influence because:
1. Jews really aren’t that interesting. If I wanted to read about Jews nonstop I’d pick up the New Testament.
2. I could add nothing new to the topic: it’s all been said.
3. Talking about Jews feeds their narcissism.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

all good points.

Chad Bigly
Guest
Chad Bigly

Says the guy who finds it distasteful to criticize Jews,but has no problem slamming the Irish. Pathetic.

Chad Bigly
Guest
Chad Bigly

So why comment at all? Other than to virtue signal?

Exile
Guest
Exile

“Bored” = I got BTFO’d on this all week.

If you’re not J-woke, that’s fine, We’re not here to evangelize you.

But don’t try to rubbish the J-woke and discredit the concept around here if you can’t handle pushback.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

When you have about twenty or more species of predators tearing at the national carcass, it is dangerous to fall into the trap of “if it weren’t for the ____…”. It’s way too late for that. The Orcs are coming at us from all directions now, including a bunch of home grown white male Orcs. A sort of a feeding frenzy.

Exile
Guest
Exile

Naming one major enemy doesn’t blind me to the others. I’m in no danger of confusing the issue, and hope others follow the example. I hope you’re not referring to “White Supremacist Terrorists” when you speak of “home growns.” If so, you’ve fallen into a fake news propaganda trap. For the record, there have been 3 recent “home grown” white male mass shooters motivated by muh rayciss* starting with Roof. To re-state the obvious, check out the mass-shooters meme on Twitter recently, 99% non-White, OFC. “Orcs” refers to non-Whites – I don’t call even the worst of my people sub-humans.… Read more »

c matt
Guest
c matt

There are orcs, and then there is Saruman, and then there is Sauron. You can try attacking the orcs individually, but there are just too many and they seem to reproduce rather quickly. You can try to attack Sauran, but he’s at a whole ‘nuther level, too strong right now. That leaves the middle-man Saruman, who is vulnerable, and would go a long way to disrupting the orcs’ attacks. The most bang for the buck, as it were.

Maus
Guest
Maus

No. It’s BORED. I stopped reading the comments at CH when the JQ predominated and too many people made the parenthesis key their #1 favorite. I’d hate to have to do the same here. So either get busy with the Zyklon B already or STFU. Nobody has anything new or interesting to say about Jews. It has all been spewed before ad nauseam.

Exile
Guest
Exile

Heckler’s veto denied. I’ll stop responding to sloppy mischaracterizations like Zyklon references when people stop trying to equate noticing with gassing people. I’m not commenting solely for your amusement, there are plenty of people that read this that are seeking to learn something and don’t care if you’re not entertained. Be part of the solution you seek – stop pissing in our Wheaties and we won’t need to piss back.

Penitent Man
Guest
Penitent Man

I get the nuff’ JQ palavering “it’s offputting for recruitment” and “it’s all been hashed and rehashed” arguments.

It just happens to be the post and discussion of the day.

Let’s not be too quick to self-censor thought or discourse. Our opponents already do that for us.

If it becomes JQ everyday I too will throw up my hands in frustration and boredom.

Chad Bigly
Guest
Chad Bigly

That’s nice, no one cares. loser.

Prussian
Guest
Prussian

I agree with where you are coming from. I only want to discuss the JQ because too many people fail to achieve the balance. WN 1.0 is a road to nowhere, and so is MAGA/Civ.Nat./simpering appeals to modern whites as well. One man of the intellect of Paul Gottfried, Darren Beattie, Michael H. Hart, Michael Levin (‘Why Race Matters’), etc., who can help disseminate ideas of the proper balance, is worth 500,000+ 4chan WN 1.0 trolls. Brilliant men, Jewish or non-Jewish, who can disseminate sophisticated understanding of genetics and race, Right-Nietzscheanism, Right-Heideggerianism, and so on are of the greatest value… Read more »

Ursula
Guest
Ursula

I can’t help but think that jews were involved and supportive since the beginning in pushing The Enlightenment ideas and liberalism because these beliefs helped break down exclusive Christian communities so as to allow jews in Europe. Now when I read liberal and Enlightenment ideas, I can’t help but think, Hey, those were the early civic nationalists. It’s all very similar to the garbage we hear today about the wonderfulness of all the immigrants we import into the west, to the detriment of white Christian culture. Jewish Emancipation and Enlightenment How Enlightenment ideals in Europe created the potential for Jewish… Read more »

Prussian
Guest
Prussian

I’m not entirely clear on your position, but can anyone seriously argue that John Locke, the Founding Fathers, etc. were beleaguered victims of Jewish machinations? Non-Jewish developed and implemented liberalism lay behind, and lay in tandem with today, the JQ.

That’s a good excerpt you provided. Thank you.

Ursula
Guest
Ursula

I’d say maybe the jews were a factor in Enlightenment/liberal values being spread, rather than the “Founding Fathers … were beleaguered victims of Jewish machinations.” The jews since the beginning of time have excelled in placing themselves near rulers, money, politics, law and governance and so of course would play a role in the dissemination of political thought, just as they have since forever.

Ursula
Guest
Ursula

Actually, this article describes the “Jewish Enlightenment” that happened after the European Enlightenment. It was like the opening up and integration of Jews with Christians. I’d say the result has been terrible for Christians in Europe and the U.S., while the Jews came to prevail in the U.S. and much of the West. Maybe this is why our Christian ancestors were so much more clannish than we are today — they knew how to protect their people and did not tolerate the dissipation of their society. “The Haskalah, or Jewish Enlightenment, was an intellectual movement in Europe that lasted from… Read more »

Prussian
Guest
Prussian

I’m not seeing where anything I’ve written is refuted. Liberalism did not originate with them, and although it has brought them to power in the 20th century (alongside massive numbers of non-Jewish liberal elites who are still overwhelmingly “going with the tide”), it is going to turn against Jews in the same way it has turned against whites. Most Jews are not elites on Wall Street, in Washington, D.C., Hollywood, etc., and the state of Israel is going to be undermined from globalization just as all other world states are being systematically undermined. For the latter, Jewish approval of the… Read more »

Exile
Guest
Exile

Exactly.

Chad Bigly
Guest
Chad Bigly

That’s nice. No one cares how butthurt you are by all this icky Jew talk.

Moran ya Simba
Guest
Moran ya Simba

A little more interesting for non-Jews like myself is what kind of nation America, not Israel, is. I actually think a nation is its people and their homeland. The whole proposition nation is no nation at all. I once made the point in these comments that a nation that will always pick bright new immigrants constantly is Darwinistically basically promiscuous. It will NOT form a, pardon the expression, safe space for your posterity, ie your genes, in future generations. As soon as something shinier comes along, woops, ‘we re a nation of immigrants.’ A nation of continuous (large scale) immigration… Read more »

Exile
Guest
Exile

Exactly. There’s a bright line between codding your posterity and subsidizing their conquerors. The world isn’t so lacking in opportunities for achievement and our gene pool isn’t so stagnant that we need to import Juans and Pajeets to “enhance competitition” or for “hybrid vigor.” If those were the real reasons for immigration, these shills would be pushing for immigration TO Africa, India and S. America. Not my primary concern, FWIW, but it should also be noted that brain-draining the smart fraction of societies with vanishingly small numbers of high IQ’s is cruel and dysgenic to the foreigners our wine moms… Read more »

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

We also used to culturally equip our posterity with the attitudes, knowledge, and skills necessary for survival and primacy. It looks like if you want that today, you must do it on your own, and try to float in a broader sea of mediocrity and self-hate.

Member

“They demand you place ideology over biology, while they place biology ahead of ideology.”

That last sentence says it all: nationalism for me, but not for thee. I have completely given up trying to convince my fundamentalist family members that they are being flimflammed. If we’re going to save ourselves in some great future struggle with leftists and their allies, you can be sure the damn fool fundamentalists will probably be fighting shoulder-to-shoulder with their Zionist masters along with Lefty.

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Guest
Ris_Eruwaedhiel

Was it Gregory Hood who remarked that evangelicals went from worshipping a Jewish savior to worshipping Jews?

Jewish-Christian relations remind me of what Nikita Kruschev said of Soviet-American relations: “You spit in their face and they call it dew.”

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

After relentlessly sending a Christian Zionist friend links, articles, and constantly pointing out Jewish hypocrisy, double standards, contempt for Christians, etc, I finally got her to acknowledge everything I said was true. She then rationalized it by deciding most diasporan Jews aren’t real Jews but Khazars (which, I believe, has been pretty conclusively disproven by genetics) and remains serene in her belief that 144,000 of them will come to Jesus in the end times. Sigh.

james wilson
Member

I doubt Adolf himself was an anti-Zionist. It seems clear that were the British not in the way, instead of gassing sixty-six million Jews he’d have shipped them to the Promised Land instead and saved himself the trouble.

MemeWarVet
Guest
MemeWarVet

The “Transfer Program” proposed by the Reich in 1933 was exactly this. Uncle A would have been content to let the Chosenites live peacefully elsewhere, but Warmonger Churchill wasn’t ever going to have it.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

because AH wasn’t a cynical bastard. I would be embarrassed to post such pathologically naive shit as you two have.

Exile
Guest
Exile

I know the history they’re citing. Pat Buchanan has talked about this stuff for years. Can you back up your position with anything factual, or are you just emoting?

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus
Exile
Guest
Exile

By that logic, Salvini is Shoah’ing North Africans. Germans decided to culturally push back on Jews. Jews were upset and shipped out. Some of them died on the boat after they left Germany because other countries wouldn’t let them in. “(S)ome historians have estimated that approximately a quarter of them died in death camps during World War II.” Some historians have estimated that approximately everyone reading this blog is a white supremacist terrorist. “Some ____ have estimated” is the original fake news trick, “These events, also known as the “Voyage of the Damned”, have inspired film, opera, and fiction. ”… Read more »

Ursula
Guest
Ursula

I had read that Israel wanted the MS St Louis to be refused in the west so that they would be forced to send the jewish refugees to Israel, who desperately wanted to increase their jewish population. Also, I was just reading another fascinating Unz piece, this one on the jews and the nazis. Would recommend this juicy piece, full of interesting unknown bits of info. “Although the Germans paid little attention to the entreaties of that minor organization, the far larger and more influential mainstream Zionist movement of Chaim Weizmann and David Ben-Gurion was something else entirely. And during… Read more »

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

you might want to look up the year Israel was founded.

Ursula
Guest
Ursula

The zionists were importing jews to Palestine since the early 1900’s when the Brits were there. You may want to read up on that yourself.

c matt
Guest
c matt

So there were no Anglos in America until 1789?

Member

Citing a Wikipedia article on a topic of current controversy is not wise.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

was there anything in the article you consider false or misleading? It’s a pretty straightforward description of the event.

Chad Bigly
Guest
Chad Bigly

now THAT is what I call irony.

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

MemeWarVet: Not just Churchill. No one wanted the Jews that Germany was trying to offload. Everyone was in economic depression, and just about everyone had already experienced the social and political problems Jews brought with them. And it wasn’t just governments that refused them – there was an attempt to bring a bunch of Jewish kids to the US and public opinion was overwhelmingly opposed. That’s what’s behind a lot of the Jews’ bellyaching about how America and others didn’t “do enough” to prevent their fate (whatever it actually was) in WWII. They knew no one wanted them, and for… Read more »

Thorsted
Guest
Thorsted

I can cross this funny and well made music video “I’m not white I’m Jewish” and posted in some twitter post and got many jewish likes and re-twits. I thought that one really have to be very ethnocentric and without any introspection to do that. But many of them most have that mentality.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mirL15zZYNc

Larry
Guest
Larry

The essence of Christianity is the acceptance of Jesus Christ as the Messias while the essence of Judaism is Messias-Denial and so the idea of Judeo Christian anything is an oxymoron.

The Jews revere the Talmud more than the Old Testament and the Talmud teaches the Jews that Mary was a whore who was raped by a Roman Soldier while she was menstruating and that her child, Jesus, is a bastard who was righty crucified for blasphemy.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

am I the only one who sees a logical flaw in this dumb ass rant?

Exile
Guest
Exile

Try me. You’re virtue-signalling. Logic has nothing to do with your objection.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

how does a menstruating woman get pregnant? you do know what menstruation involves don’t you? the shedding of the uterine lining. given that, what exactly would a fertilized egg attach itself to?

really, you are a genuine imbecile.

Exile
Guest
Exile

Being called an imbecile by someone who’s trying to apply medical logic to a religious text written by notorious dissumulators in the Middle Ages is an honor.

Our whole point was that what they’re saying is a filthy logic-free pack of nonsense but Zio-cucked Christians still run around thinking these guys are their Chosen big brothers.

You totally missed that in your zeal to score points on the Jew haters and get your virtue cookie. You need to grow up and be more careful with your reading and with your sloppy statements.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

haha I told you there was a logical flaw, and told you what it is, and you start waving your hands like an old crone with her skirts on fire! too too funny. and yes, you really are an imbecile.

are you one of V D’s moron followers? if not, you should be…

Exile
Guest
Exile

Last time I bother with you beyond refuting you for the sake of others. Grown ups here are trying to build community and share information for the good of their people. You’re a Sargon-tier kidult looking to score Internet Points. I’d tell you to go play somewhere else but it would be futile. /ignore

Larry
Guest
Larry

I didn’t write the Talmud, I just wrote what the Talmud teaches about Mary.

Larry
Guest
Larry

Judeo-Christianity is an existential oxymoron as the essence Christianity is accepting Jesus as Messias whereas Messias-Denial is the essence of Judaism

For the Jews the Talmud supersedes the Old Testament and the Talmud teaches that Mary was a whore who was raped by a roman soldier while she was menstruating and that her bastard chid, Jesus, was justly crucified for blasphemy and is now in Hell submerged in boiling shit

Al from da Nort
Guest
Al from da Nort

Larry; Serious question about your second paragraph. Does the Talmud *really* say this_? Got any citations_? It sure sounds like something out of one of the many, many Jewish Blood Libels: https://infogalactic.com/w/index.php?search=The+Jewish+Blood+Libel&title=Special%3ASearch&go=Go&fulltext=1 Or maybe from The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. The latter was a Czarist Russian forgery. https://infogalactic.com/info/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion So far as I know, Jewish worship still includes readings from The Torah. As far as chosenness goes, Christian Doctrine (mostly) holds that the Jewish Nation has been repeatedly punished by God for apostasy.* So there are definitely downsides to it. ______________________ *To begin with ‘The Law and The Prophets’… Read more »

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

uh, do the Jews actually believe in a heaven and a hell?

Joshua Shalet
Guest
Joshua Shalet

Yes, but we don’t claim to know what either is like

Judaism teaches how to make heaven on earth

Larry
Guest
Larry

If you go to the Jewish Encyclopedia and search the entry Talmud you will discover it is valued more than the Old Testament.

Yes, what I wrote about what Th eTalmud teaches exists n the Talmud but the Messias-Deniers will send you on al maker of goose chases and false claims to distract from their evil literature.

As to the putative Blood Libels, many of those are truthful and have have been proven

Larry
Guest
Larry
The Last Stand
Guest
The Last Stand

Can you recommend an accurate English translation of the Talmud?

Exile
Guest
Exile

The theme of postive vs. negative identity is a useful perspective for examining the discontents between Jewish and American/European cultures. This is a very compressed broad-brush treatment, so many nits can be picked. These require book-length treatment to address so bear with me and think about the forest rather than the trees. I can’t write a book this morning. Judaism is a net-negative identity – Chosen Us vs. Goy Other, exodus, captivity, subjugation, diaspora, expulsion, persecution, Shoah. Ask a Jew to define what they were “Chosen” for – why God picked them. The rabbinical tier like Prager or the Rebbe… Read more »

JohnTyler
Guest
JohnTyler

Maybe folks can object to Israel’s policies and not be anti-Semitic. But it sure looks suspicious that most anti-Israel folks are in fact anti-Semites. Maybe it’s just a coincidence. Because Israel and the USA are allies, any lefty will hate Israel; it really is that simple. If Israel hated the USA, the left would love Israel and the BDS movement and any other anti-Israel agitation would have never existed. Ben Shapiro would never have to mention Israel in any of his talks. The left hates Israel because they are pals with the USA; that’s it really. As for Israel’s right… Read more »

Exile
Guest
Exile

“Maybe folks can object to Israel’s policies and not be anti-Semitic. But it sure looks susicious that most anti-Israel folks are in fact anti-Semites.” It sure looks suspicious that those who accept Zionist definitions for anti-Semitism all think this. “Because Israel and the USA are allies, any lefty will hate Israel; it really is that simple.” Every “lefty” with the exception of Noam Chomsky and a handful of pro-Palestinian activists is in Israel’s pocket. Do the names Nadler, Schumer or Schiff ring a bell? How did Ilhan Omar get censured if “every lefty” supposedly agrees with her on Israel? Why… Read more »

Carrie
Guest

OK, honest question here: If we say Leftists (the useful idiots, not the over-class) don’t like Israel b/c Israel the nation and America are generally allies, then where does the Leftist love of Arab/Muzloids comes from? I have noticed that Europeans’ general knee-jerk reaction is to favor the Arabs/muzloids and also hate Jews as a demographic. It’s an honest question: does anyone’s have a hypothesis about where this comes from? THsi sentiment was borne out by the Holly Cost, and now today with the Arab invasion of both the European Continent and England with Arab muzloids. I’ve never been able… Read more »

Exile
Guest
Exile

On the most basic level, Semitics, Arab or Jew, aren’t compatible with Caucasians. They’re fairly displaced down the “Other” scale from us – temperament, looks, language, etc… Europeans, particularly Eastern, have centuries-running grievances with the Jews, Animosity toward Arabs is more recent, diversity + proximity = war. The anti-Israel Left, such as is left of it, is mostly the true believers who see Palestinians and Musims as underdogs vs. ZioAmerica. Their sentimentality lets them overlook nasty Muslim behavior. The weird part is when you see Leftist leadership stumping for more Muzzies despite the anti-Semitic violence. With them, mass immigration is… Read more »

Al from da Nort
Guest
Al from da Nort

JT;
Let me let you in on a dirty little secret. US foreign aid to Israel works as a subsidy for US defense contractors that’s outside of the Pentagon budget.

There is a clear understanding that it is US equipment that Israel will be buying with the money, particularly re. aircraft. And it’s the US military-industrial complex that’s behind this and not those sneaky (((-))).

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

Exactly. It’s welfare for the MIC. And one would have thought that after the scandal (2013) where Israel illegally sold US military tech to China that would have ended. But all that happened was a weak apology and the resignation of an Israeli minister. Now Israel is giving China control of one of its ports. Ho Hum. The problem is that if the MSM won’t cover it and search engines block it, how could anyone be expected to know?

Ursula
Guest
Ursula

Actually, “those sneaky (((-)))” are involved up to their kippahs. They and the MIC scratch each others backs.

Nathan
Guest
Nathan

It’s clear you hate Palestinians for having lived for centuries on land that Jews decided they wanted to steal. Maybe they’re smarter than Arabs (lots of Jews are hyper-religious inbred retards in “Israel”) but I don’t care. They don’t give a fig about us beyond getting us to send our money and spill our blood for their benefit as good Shabbos Goyim. I don’t blame them for resisting occupation—every people has a right to physically resist foreign domination. I feel a hell of a lot more sympathetic for people being dominated by the same tribe of liars, thieves, and nation-wreckers… Read more »

3g4me
Guest
3g4me

A plague and a pox on Jews and Arabs both. Let them solve their own disputes but keep out of American and European territory.

Larry
Guest
Larry

The label anti semitic is rarely defined which makes is useful in so many conversations. The late Joe Sobran was right in observing that anti semitism was a label apt for those who hated Jews but now it is used by Jews to label those they hate. Notice that it is rare for Christians to describe the Messias-Deniers as anti-Christian but it would be useful to do so. Every time some Traditionalist is subjected to dynamic silence we Christians should describe that action as Anti-Christian/ Anti-Christ. In the world of rhetoric it is not useful to let your enemies always… Read more »

LineInTheSand
Guest
LineInTheSand

“The Jews in the west (the majority of whom are decent men) have been allowed to rule the media”

Larry blames the goyim for allowing the tribe to take over the media. Larry, would you support the sort of measures it would have taken to prevent this media takeover? If not, you end up criticizing the goyim if they allow the media takeover and if they fight it.

Perhaps those “majority of whom are decent men” are more of a threat than you are willing to admit.

MartyEv
Guest
MartyEv

It’s hard to argue that Jews would be wrong to say were not a nation and just a temporary space for all people. In my eyes, it’s one of the flaws of the immigration from Europe in the last big wave of the 19th-20th century. Whites have no rallying point of ethnic identity, were all some kind of mixture of whites, and that’s a harder hill to climb than a nation like Britain or France has to, in order to get to ethnic-nationalism. It’s not impossible, but it’s harder.

Exile
Guest
Exile

They’ve worked hard to make it that way, but there are still real White nations within the USA, and we may be able to re-bond them with a better foundation. Read sites like Counter-Currents, Unz and this one. Check out Greg Johnson’s “White Nationalist Manifesto” (https://www.counter-currents.com/2018/09/the-white-nationalist-manifesto/) and Albion’s Seed (https://www.amazon.com/Albions-Seed-British-Folkways-America-dp-B00KAH5LMK/dp/B00KAH5LMK/ref=mt_audio_download?_encoding=UTF8&me=&qid=)

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

I don’t know: ” To Ourselves and Our Posterity” seems pretty specific to me. Of course both parties now repudiate this.

dad29
Guest

Yah, well, that “ourselves….posterity” ship sailed as soon as Immigrant #1 dropped in after 1789 or so. Are you trying to tell us that the Constitution only applies to the original colonists’ descendants?

Who do you think you are? Vox, the ex-pat?

Exile
Guest
Exile

We are telling you that the people who voted for the Constitution never intended the country to be anything but an English Protestant nation, unquestionably dominated by their own progeny, with a compatible culturally subordinate smattering of other Europeans who would accept that hegemony.

That first immigrant came in under the very first act of the US Congress, under which only “free white men of good character” were even considered for citizenship and even they had more hurdles to clear with their new neighbors and the law.

Ursula
Guest
Ursula

But whites share a common heritage based on Christian principles. That’s why the jews are so hot to stamp out all Christianity — it makes it that much easier to destroy the white European civilizations. All the wonderful European civilizations spring forth from Christianity. All western laws, the ideas of human worth and high-trust ways all emerge from Christianity.

Rod1963
Guest
Rod1963

They also share much from Rome and Athens in terms of law, logic, architecture, philosophy, aesthetics, art, etc.

Christianity gave us the heart while Rome and Athens gave us our intellect.

Member

Good essay, until this :

“The problem with this line of reasoning is that it means America is not really a nation or even a country. It’s just a temporary staging area … it denies the very existence of America as a country, much less a nation.”

That is simply a non sequitur. And it is wrong.

Shapiro is not really serious. But it might be useful or enlightening to simply ASK Prager about his sense of loyalty to America and how he relates that to his support of Zionism.

Who knows – we might get an interesting reply worth another Z-column.

Exile
Guest
Exile

A recent podcast Z did (about Yarzony’s conference on “National Conservatism” in DC?) points out Prager’s expressed dual loyalty card – “what would happen if the US went to war with Israel” – after some obfuscation, Prager comes right out and says it could only happen if one country’s democracy became immorally subverted and that “every individual” would have to make their own moral decision about which country was right. This comes from a guy whose entire identity starts with Jewishness who claims Jews have unique focus, tradition and concern for universal morality. Care to bet against him siding with… Read more »

LineInTheSand
Guest
LineInTheSand

Prager, as intelligent and sweet as he is, would likely answer your question with a comforting lie. Talmudic Taqiya.

Do you doubt that Prager’s highest loyalty is to the flourishing of the genetic bloodline of the Ashkenazi?

The Babe
Member
The Babe

Just so sick of ’em. Don’t care about their issues any more.

I just want to live in my own country, free of the blacks, free of the Jews.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

They are both guests at the table, and good guests do not crap all over their hosts.

Anna
Guest
Anna

Complain to the Founders for both.

Mark Taylor
Guest
Mark Taylor

Blind deference to the Founders isn’t something you’ll find much of around here. Even still it’s clear the Founders were just fine with enforcing a European Christian culture and overclass.

Exile
Guest
Exile

What’s a summer Sunday in America without a Numerican Soviet Ashkepath citing muh Founders for why she gets to tell all of us how to be better people by slobbering over her amazing people’s accomplishments?

Anna, you are a White Nationalist Treasue. You’ve done more today to J-pill readers here than any of us mere native goyim could accomplish in weeks.

Keep telling us the truth about who we really are and where we stand beneath you in the world you’ve Chosen for yourselves.

Chad Bigly
Guest
Chad Bigly

I’d argue that she got an assist from Karl McDumbass

Chad Bigly
Guest
Chad Bigly

You have to go back.

Maus
Guest
Maus

America is the un-nation, like Seven Up is the un-cola. It was founded as un-Britain, severing its historical ties. It was founded as a republic of federated States, not a nation. As the Whiskey Rebellion showed, it wasn’t motivated by “no taxation without representation;” it was purely about no taxation. No standing army, a weak federal government. Remember the Articles of Confederation? Muh Constitution was the later gift of oligarchs. The best thing for Our Thing is to return to those roots and strive for a few sovereign states in the midlands. Let the nation cease and Mexifornia fall into… Read more »

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

Z-man, Is this post an experiment? To see how the numbers compare to other topics? Or to suss out certain posters’ positions?

PawPaw
Guest
PawPaw

Experiment or not, Z certainly knows how to kick a hornet’s nest.

Sleepy
Member
Sleepy

ZMan, You say: “In fact, Jews in the diaspora have tended to oppose Israel. The ADL, for example, has steadfastly rejected the argument that anti-Zionism is antisemitism.” The first sentence MAY have been true at some point in the past (at least before WW2 and more likely before WW1), but I see no evidence that it is true today in America. One can name a few well known Jews in America who would say so, but they are BIGTIME exceptions. The second sentence is misleading in the extreme. The ADL is BIGBIGBIGTIME pro Israel, so the implication that they are… Read more »

Member

Agree.the ADL is one of the drivers behind the current with the criticism of Israel is anti-semitism gutting of the first ammendment.

JR Wirth
Guest
JR Wirth

Ben Shapiro is one of the few Jews, where when he’s on the radio as I drive, I start screaming “you little kike!” He gave away the store yet again a few days ago, when he sort of chastised Trump for putting the Democrats in a position with Rep. Omar where they have to support her to oppose Trump. So Trump was putting himself before Israel. I said , “a-ha! you sneaky little kike!” I then hit another station. I don’t mean to listen to Shapiro, he happens to be on the radio when I’m driving, and I somehow don’r… Read more »

dad29
Guest

Yup. Wait until he replaces Tucker Carlson!!

Bacchus
Guest
Bacchus

I don’t understand the appeal of Prager, and especially Shapiro, to boomer white men. That mewling, whiny-ass, sarcastic voice. So effeminate and pathetic. It’s the same types that gravitated to Woody Allen in the 70’s and Seinfeld in 90’s – a Beta cuck fest of bitchy, complainers, yet somehow always pulling in the top tier tail. Yeah, that really happens guys! I guess if I had zero self awareness, benched two plates, and had a second homeland i could bail to – whenever, I could perhaps feel emboldened to act out like this too. Now that I think of it,… Read more »

JR Wirth
Guest
JR Wirth

Mewing. Word of the day. Very underrated word.

I see Shapiro listeners as not so much Woody Allen fans but your basic T1-11 siding boomer. White socks with shorts from JCPenney. Taco Tuesdays. Lots of equity but no money. Outer suburban with Mexicans encroaching. Always have an answer to everything that involves Reagan, The deified Alzheimer’s patient.

Bacchus
Guest
Bacchus

it’s either mewling (when they’re complaining), or it’s like listening to two cats fornicating on my back porch (when in bitch mode). Either way, ain’t nobody got time per dat! Could you imagine JET, Jew Entertainment Television. Not stop Woody Allen kvetching as he nails hot tang. Followed by sarcastic takes from Jon Stewart, followed by Happy Gimore, followed by girl talk with Chelsea Handler and Bette Midler. When they build the FEMA camps, just put JET on loop non-stop. That will reform even the Enoch’s among us.

Moran ya Simba
Guest
Moran ya Simba

And while everyone here is busy slugging it out in the umpteenth round of that old evergreen, “the JQ,” America just became a little more Mexico and Germany Arabia North. A civil war over the JQ among those of us who get it about demographic replacement, that’s the mother of all Christmas presents for whomever it is who dreams of ‘white genocides’.

Anyone here, ‘JQ uber woke’ or totally ‘JQ rejectionist’, who can say “eye on the f*cking ball”??!!!

Crud Bonemeal
Guest
Crud Bonemeal

The chance to fix America becoming Mexico happened in 2016.

And that chance was squandered and our hopes were betrayed.

The rise in people studying the JQ is a response to the recognition that the people in power will not allow us to have any political representation and will not allow us to solve our problems through elections and voting.

It’s worth noting that 2016 was also an opportunity for them to turn over a new leaf and show they could deal with people fairly, needless to say that didn’t happen.

Moran ya Simba
Guest
Moran ya Simba

The chance to fix America becoming Mexico happened in 2016.

Ain’t that a black pill…. I honestly wonder how the hell this is gonna end…..

Exile
Guest
Exile

Stealing a theme from Coulter in Adios, you’re yelling at everyone to just mop up the floor and ignore the guy who keeps turning on the water. We can walk and chew gum at the same time. Both causes & effects matter. No one here is saying “I won’t fight beside you for Whites b/c anti-Semitism/philo-Semitism.”. We’re keeping the fight in-house. It’s important but no one’s in a self-destructive purity spiral here, Z’s not ban-hammering. I’m pretty sure Anna’s not with us but even she is helping in her own special way.

Moran ya Simba
Guest
Moran ya Simba

My point, as I think you’ve already figured out, is that whether or not you are right about the JQ, there is a very significant risk that the JQ becomes a red herring, burning time we don’t have. I think it is wiser to focus on a core down-stream problem, ie result, coming white minority, instead of an up-stream, ie cause, issue. Dissident right ppl can be undecided about the JQ or be woke or reject it. But they cannot be fine w further diluting the heritage population in America or Europe. I would make THAT the question right now.… Read more »

Crud Bonemeal
Guest
Crud Bonemeal

We already got people to vote against the invasion. And look what it got them. More legal and illegal immigration, plus the government and private sector weaponized to hunt down… Trump supporters. In order to stop the invasion we have to actually obtain political power. In order obtain political power, we have to understand it and understand who has it. Q-Anon and the plan trusting era in general illustrated the limitations of an army consisting of people with zero understanding of how the system works. Remember, we can’t just elect a new, effective populist immigration restrictionist in 2020. It’s either… Read more »

Exile
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Exile

It’s a lot easier to make some of those people see this as an invasion rather than “what the Founders wanted” or “the way the world is changing” if they have some idea of why this is really happening. I’m saying we can work on both causes and effects. No one is demanding we agree on the JQ, much less resolve it, before we defend the borders. Whites who are so afraid of merely being on the same side as someone who’s more J-woke aren’t going to put up much resistance when the other side starts name-calling them, much less… Read more »

Whiskey
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Whiskey

Israel is the North West Flank of the odious but necessary House of Saud. Jordan is the North East Flank, Iraq was supposed to be that plus the alternate we lost with the Shah. Its as simple as that. Israel = protecting the flank of the House of Oil. Presidents from FDR to Trump, including Obama, have made US protection for the House of Saud core foreign policy. Because that awful family controls the world’s largest supply of cheap oil. There are other places with larger reserves, but it costs more to get the oil out. There are other places… Read more »

Moran ya Simba
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Moran ya Simba

That is interesting political judo there. No idea if it ll work but interesting.

BadThinker
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BadThinker

A part of me thinks Z is being deliberately provocative here, given his comments in the last podcast…

Melon13
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Melon13

The reason the JQ question is like lighting a fuse is the Jewish question is tied to Christianity and we are still a Christian majority nation. Which means Christians bring the JQ question out front in our nation because Christianity came from Judaism and Judaism is still to this day seeking to destroy or limit Christianity.
This tug of war plays out in society and on bulletin boards.

david
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david

“they define themselves as both un-American and opposed to the very concept of America.”. This is a stretch. Evangelical christians are taught that the jews are gods original people, jesus was a jew, and taking care of jews will ensure gods blessing. I was raised that way while attending many different evangelical churches. Its a religious belief totally separate from national loyalty. Some of us believed that the US should help jews for blessings in return. That might mean israel or diaspora. Its not a main tenet of christianity or anything, just an occasional pitch for donations it seems. Now… Read more »

Exile
Guest
Exile

Nothing to be concerned about, what’s the big deal… “Its a religious belief totally separate from national loyalty.” I’ve spoken with many who take their faith much more seriouslly both in person and online. Most Christians I know that have read the Bible at all have read Revelations, and many take it quite seriously. I’ve attended church services where the Israeli flag was prominently displayed. “It’s not a main tenet of Christianity…” Covenant theology is a side issue? Once again, most priests, preachers and believers I’ve ever known don’t seem to think so. There aren’t many religious loyalties that are… Read more »

BadThinker
Guest
BadThinker

Wife donated to a single outfit of Billy Grahams, once. Now we get massive amounts of snail mail about how “you too can help a starving widow in Israel!”… Israel this, Israel that.

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉
Guest

Good points. We need to rule in America. Here we are the chosen people. This is our Zion. We want in our lands what they have in their land. If the ^above^ isn’t the end of the discussion then its a matter for deeds not words. (Its always deeds not words- but this is a blog so fine). These are our lands, we rule here. This is our decision and so we simply must enforce it. Once again: if it wasn’t them it would be somebody else. Actually its everybody else. We’re weak minded, we don’t smash down disloyalty…of course… Read more »

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

I’ve read an awful lot of the founding documents. I’ve also read a lot of literature from colonial times – as well as the writings outside of the founding documents by the guys who founded the country. I don’t ever remember reading anything indicating they felt that : ” we founded this country so we could help out the Jews and then be subservient to them and funnel our tax dollars to them instead of King George” I’ve come around to the notion that people who insist that the United States must align itself and supplicate itself to Israel are… Read more »

Larry
Guest
Larry

In the 1930s, a Polish Arch Bishop, Hlond, published a pastoral letter on his nation and the Jews. The sad fact is that no – NOT ONE – Catholic Bishop or politician would ever speak these words in public which tells me to piss on the fire and call in the dogs. It is over So long as Jews remain Jews, a Jewish problem exists and will continue to exist. This question varies in intensity and degree from country to country. It is especially difficult in our country, and ought to be the object of serious consideration. I shall touch… Read more »

Member

Is “Christian Zionist” in this piece referring to a specific group, the John-Hagee end-times people, or it used generically referring to any Christian who is also a Zionist? Could not tell from the article. (PS. Certainly agree that Shapiro has lots of problems, but Prager is as far from “anti-American” as you can get.When he uses the term “the founding,” nine times out of ten, he is talking about America, not Israel. Most of his Prager U and radio material is straight conservative/traditionalist American.)