The un-Americans

A popular argument from the Judeo-Christians, mostly in response to people like Ilhan Omar and other anti-Israel advocates, is that one cannot be anti-Israel without also being anti-Semitic. Now, in this context, “Judeo-Christian” applies to the Jewish pundits, who are primarily pro-Israel, but have an exclusively Christian audience. People like Ben Shapiro and Dennis Prager. Both of whom are tireless advocates for Israel and promiscuously use the phrase “Judeo-Christian” in their arguments.

Their claim works as follows. It’s not that being anti-Zionist is just a ploy by the anti-Semites. It’s that the very nature of Jewishness is tangled up in the existence of Israel, which transcends the current state of Israel. According to their argument, Israel the idea, as well as the country, is what defines Jewishness. To oppose Israel, especially its right to exist, is to oppose that which makes being a Jew possible. Therefore, opposing Israel, by definition, makes that person an anti-Semite.

It is a curious argument, when you examine the implications. There is no doubt that Israel the concept is an inextricable part of Jewish identity. Anyone who has watched the move The Ten Commandments gets that. The Judeo-Christians, however, take this further and move beyond the concept of Israel to the physical country itself. It is hard to know if this is something Jews accept, but we do have example of Jews that have opposed Zionism, so some Jews oppose some aspects of Israel.

Let’s just assume, for the sake of argument, that Prager and Shapiro are right about this and Israel and Jews are one in the same. The first conclusion, the most obvious one, is that Israel is an ethno-state. Sure, anyone can become a Jew, but that is like saying anyone can become a physicist. It may be true in theory, but in reality the conversion rate to Judaism rounds to zero. Jewish law requires the rabbi to strongly discourage gentiles from converting to Judaism.

The other conclusion from the Shapiro-Prager argument is that Jews are, by nature, primarily loyal to Israel. For a Jew to oppose the very essence of what makes him a Jew is an unsolvable paradox. In order to be authentically Jewish, a Jew has to adhere to that which makes one Jewish. If loyalty to Israel comes before everything else, that means all diaspora Jews are guests. They can and do work with their hosts, but in the end, their first loyalty has to be to Israel and the Jewish people.

This is, the argument Hazony makes in his book The Virtue of Nationalism. He does not apply it to Jews in the diaspora, but that is the implication. If Jews are a nation, then the primary loyalty of all Jews must be to that nation. He tries to run the “anyone can be a Jews” line through his argument, but that would invalidate all of his claims about Zionism, so it must be decoration. The implication here is clear. Jews are a nation, spread out around the world, but their ancestral land is Israel.

Another implication of this link between anti-Zionism and antisemitism is that Ben Shapiro is lying when he says ideology trumps race. After all, if Zionism is just another ideological viewpoint, then so is anti-Zionism. Yet, Shapiro insists that being opposed to Zionism immoral on its face. The only way that can be true is if Zionism is based in biology, rather than ideology. Therefore, opposing Zionism is the same as racism, which means that Shapiro thinks race transcends ideology after all.

A possible way around this problem of Jews being a guest population is the claim that America is the new Israel or an extension of Israel. This is something that sells to the Christian Zionists and solves the problem of loyalties. America, according to this theory, is a both a defender of Israel and a staging ground for Jews who will one day return home during the ingathering of the Jewish diaspora. Aliya, the return to Israel, is a core idea of Zionism and it is included in Israel’s Scroll of Independence.

This has appeal to Christian Zionists in America, who believe that the gathering of the diaspora in Israel is in accordance with Bible prophecy and a prerequisite for the Second Coming of Jesus. Christian Zionism has its roots in the 17th century America with the Puritans. It turns up in the 18th century and especially the 19th century with the abolitionists, so it has a long history in America. As a result, there is a large audience for this form of Zionism among American Christians.

The problem with this line of reasoning is that it means America is not really a nation or even a country. It’s just a temporary staging area. Loyalty to America, therefore, is contingent on American policy toward Israel. That is as un-American as you can get, as it denies the very existence of America as a country, much less a nation. Even here, the end result of the Judeo-Christian model is one where the Zionist can have no loyalty to America, as America does not exists, outside its role in Zionism.

This logical problem is why smarter Jews have always opposed this line of reasoning with regards to Israel and especially Zionism. In fact, Jews in the diaspora have tended to oppose Israel. The ADL, for example, has steadfastly rejected the argument that anti-Zionism is antisemitism. They argue that Israel is just another country without any special claims upon Jews. Whether they are sincere or not is debatable, but at least their logic allows them to be loyal Americans and Jewish.

That is, fundamentally, the problem with people like Prager and Shapiro. In their zeal to inculcate pro-Israel sentiment, they define themselves as both un-American and opposed to the very concept of America. Worse yet, they encourage Christians to sublimate their national loyalty to the ends of another nation. In order to sell this, they have to lie about their own intentions and their own beliefs. They demand you place ideology over biology, while they place biology ahead of ideology.

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229 thoughts on “The un-Americans

  1. Is “Christian Zionist” in this piece referring to a specific group, the John-Hagee end-times people, or it used generically referring to any Christian who is also a Zionist? Could not tell from the article. (PS. Certainly agree that Shapiro has lots of problems, but Prager is as far from “anti-American” as you can get.When he uses the term “the founding,” nine times out of ten, he is talking about America, not Israel. Most of his Prager U and radio material is straight conservative/traditionalist American.)

  2. In the 1930s, a Polish Arch Bishop, Hlond, published a pastoral letter on his nation and the Jews. The sad fact is that no – NOT ONE – Catholic Bishop or politician would ever speak these words in public which tells me to piss on the fire and call in the dogs. It is over

    So long as Jews remain Jews, a Jewish problem exists and will continue to exist. This question varies in intensity and degree from country to country. It is especially difficult in our country, and ought to be the object of serious consideration. I shall touch briefly here on its moral aspects in connection with the situation today.

    It is a fact that Jews are waging war against the Catholic Church, that they are steeped in free-thinking and constitute the vanguard of atheism, the Bolshevik movement, and revolutionary activity. It is a fact that Jews have a corruptive influence on morals, and that their publishing houses are spreading pornography. It is true that Jews are perpetrating fraud, practicing usury, and dealing in prostitution. It is true that, from a religious and ethical point of view, Jewish youth are having a negative influence on the Catholic youth in our schools. But let us be fair. Not all Jews are this way. There are very many Jews who are believers, honest, just, kind, and philanthropic. There is a healthy, edifying sense of family in very many Jewish homes. We know Jews who are ethically outstanding, noble, and upright.

    I warn against that moral stance, imported from abroad [he is clearly thinking of Germany] that is basically and ruthlessly anti-Jewish. It is contrary to Catholic ethics. One may love one’s own nation more, but one may not hate anyone. Not even Jews. It is good to prefer your own kind when shopping, to avoid Jewish stores and Jewish stalls in the marketplace, but it is forbidden to demolish a Jewish store, damage their merchandise, break windows, or throw things at their homes. One should stay away from the harmful moral influence of Jews, keep away from their anti-Christian culture, and especially boycott the Jewish press and demoralizing Jewish publications. But it is forbidden to assault, beat up, maim, or slander Jews. One should honor Jews as human beings and neighbors, even though we do not honor the indescribable tragedy of that nation, which was the guardian of the idea of the Messiah and from which was born the Savior. When divine mercy enlightens a Jew to sincerely accept his and our Messiah, let us greet him into our Christian ranks with joy.

    Beware of those who are inciting anti-Jewish violence. They are serving a bad cause. Do you know who is giving the orders? Do you know who is intent on these riots? No good comes from these rash actions. And it is Polish blood that is sometimes being shed at them.’


    There is also an excellent series on The Jewish Question that was published by the Pope’s official paper one hundred or so years ago but again when the revolutionaries at the Second Vatican Council triumphed they replaced Theocentrism with Anthropocentrism and so the hierarchy chose to enter into negotiations with the Jews that resulted in various political accommodations – the result being that the Catholic Church no longer actualises the Command of Christ to convert all nations for it is, in its praxis, essentially a secular NGO interested in AGW and immigration into Europe and bellowing about the evil of walls etc

    Think of it this way, Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI and now Pope Francis go to synagogues and blather endlessly about peace this and brotherhood that but if just one of those Popes had preached Jesus in a Synagogue, the game would be revealed because they would NEVER be allowed in a Synagogue again.

    The Hierarchy of the Catholic Church is supposed to be the pastors of sous but they have, via papolatry, become celebrities in their own right, and they strive to succor their cult of personality – endlessly granting interviews to the popular press and so there is a mutual manipulation at work

    Pope Paul VI was the first Pope to leave Italy and embark on political voyages that made him a celebrity.

    So pathetic, Popes.

    Stay home and do your damn job for once

  3. I’ve read an awful lot of the founding documents. I’ve also read a lot of literature from colonial times – as well as the writings outside of the founding documents by the guys who founded the country.

    I don’t ever remember reading anything indicating they felt that : ” we founded this country so we could help out the Jews and then be subservient to them and funnel our tax dollars to them instead of King George”

    I’ve come around to the notion that people who insist that the United States must align itself and supplicate itself to Israel are nothing more than traitors to these United States.

  4. Good points.

    We need to rule in America.

    Here we are the chosen people.
    This is our Zion.
    We want in our lands what they have in their land.

    If the ^above^ isn’t the end of the discussion then its a matter for deeds not words.

    (Its always deeds not words- but this is a blog so fine).

    These are our lands, we rule here.
    This is our decision and so we simply must enforce it.

    Once again: if it wasn’t them it would be somebody else. Actually its everybody else. We’re weak minded, we don’t smash down disloyalty…of course the world is laughing at us and taking everything.

    Make them weep and take everything back. The weeping isn’t optional if you want to keep the gains. They made us suffer, return the favor.

  5. “they define themselves as both un-American and opposed to the very concept of America.”. This is a stretch. Evangelical christians are taught that the jews are gods original people, jesus was a jew, and taking care of jews will ensure gods blessing. I was raised that way while attending many different evangelical churches. Its a religious belief totally separate from national loyalty. Some of us believed that the US should help jews for blessings in return. That might mean israel or diaspora. Its not a main tenet of christianity or anything, just an occasional pitch for donations it seems. Now There is prophecy in revelation stating the antichrist will help rebuild an empire believed to be the new rome and eventually sit on a throne , just before the resurrection and jesus will destroy him and reign from jerusalem for 1000 years. Most christians dont read revelation though, and there was certainly no propaganda regarding israeli politics growing up. We didnt care what happened to modern israel since they rejected the messiah and killed jesus anyway. Shapiro is certainly a globalist neocon, but most christians have no interest in modern Israels politics. Its mostly a site of the origin story and a future prophecy.

    • Nothing to be concerned about, what’s the big deal…

      “Its a religious belief totally separate from national loyalty.”

      I’ve spoken with many who take their faith much more seriouslly both in person and online. Most Christians I know that have read the Bible at all have read Revelations, and many take it quite seriously. I’ve attended church services where the Israeli flag was prominently displayed.

      “It’s not a main tenet of Christianity…”

      Covenant theology is a side issue? Once again, most priests, preachers and believers I’ve ever known don’t seem to think so.

      There aren’t many religious loyalties that are “wholly separate from national loyalty,” and guys like Prager expressly appeal to religious and moral authority as superior to national loyalty (see above re: Prager on US-Israel war).

      As for most Christians being indifferent to Israeli politics, the GOP in particular seems to disagree judging by its stump speeches in flyover country and the crowd reaction to them. Democrats seem much less enthusiastic about anti-Zionism than they were 15 years ago.

      We don’t seem to be talking about the same Christians or the same country. I know Christianity has been pasteurized and homo-genized, so to speak, and I’m older — but I’m more engaged than I was in the past, not less, and I don’t see what you’re seeing at all.

      The believers and country you’re describing seem a bit gas-lit to me.

      • Wife donated to a single outfit of Billy Grahams, once. Now we get massive amounts of snail mail about how “you too can help a starving widow in Israel!”… Israel this, Israel that.

  6. A part of me thinks Z is being deliberately provocative here, given his comments in the last podcast…

    • The reason the JQ question is like lighting a fuse is the Jewish question is tied to Christianity and we are still a Christian majority nation. Which means Christians bring the JQ question out front in our nation because Christianity came from Judaism and Judaism is still to this day seeking to destroy or limit Christianity.
      This tug of war plays out in society and on bulletin boards.

  7. Israel is the North West Flank of the odious but necessary House of Saud. Jordan is the North East Flank, Iraq was supposed to be that plus the alternate we lost with the Shah. Its as simple as that. Israel = protecting the flank of the House of Oil.

    Presidents from FDR to Trump, including Obama, have made US protection for the House of Saud core foreign policy. Because that awful family controls the world’s largest supply of cheap oil. There are other places with larger reserves, but it costs more to get the oil out. There are other places with cheaper oil but certainly not as much as the Saudis reserves.

    That’s it as far as Israel is concerned. Egypt is the Western Flank and the US Navy in the Gulf the Eastern flank. Yemen and its Iranian meddling the southern flank.

    I am not an isolationist as I like living as far, far away from ghetto vibrancy as possible. That means both filling up my tank and eating every week. I don’t have any quarrel with the Iranian or Russian people, but their corrupt and brutal regimes only survive as long as they can pay their security forces which means they need to topple the House of Saud sooner or later and jack up the oil price so high I’m living 100% Ghetto. Nope not an isolationist. Yeah we have our own oil supply but kick out the Saudi supply to the world supply and we are in a world of hurt.

    Moreover the Israelis mostly kick ass and are an inspiration to those seeking to preserve some of the old nations: America, Britain, France etc.. Zionism is an actual working model of White nationalistic and populist movements that should be copied. The Israelis have no problems slotting lots of non-Whites and if we don’t want to be tax slaves at best, dead kulaks at worst, we better adopt a model that works.

    Moreover its Nazi slur defense. The Nazi slur can hardly stick if one waves an Israeli flag and talks about how awesome Bibi Netanyahu is and how much America should just copy Israel. Even better, White Americans talking about how much they like/love Israel and Bibi drives a huge wedge into the progressives / New Class.

    For too long Urban Professional Jews have been able to go along and get along in the coalition of the Ascendant: Gays, Jews, Blacks, Hispanics, Upper Class Professionals, particularly White women, etc. all of whom really hate each other and want to push the other groups out of leadership and opportunities.

    Just like #METOO was a way for Gentile White women, Blacks, and various mysterious foreigners like Indians and Persians to push a lot of Jewish men out of power in Hollywood, backing Israel by Whites causes Lefty to fully embrance BDS, anti-Israel stuff, and demand Jewish leaders be purged from the Democratic Party, Media leadership, and everything else.

    As a gun owner, let me put it to you this way, who do you want leading the anti-Gun, gun-grabber measures in the Democratic Party? Chucky Schemer or Ilhan Omar? Nancy Pelosi (not Jewish but dependent on Jewish donors mostly) or Stacey Abrams?

    The more White people embrace Israel and Jews, the more Ilhan Omar and Stacey Abrams are filled with a rage to “Imma Let You Finish, but Beyonce had the greatest gun grab of all time!” Storm the stage, wrest the microphone away, and scream and rant at Jews and Whitey. Without Jewish brainpower to organize and develop coordinated media, law enforcement, and NGO actions against Joe Average White guy we get Black Lives Matter and daily anti-White riots.

    The Dissident Right should embrace and extend Israel, Jews, and the Israeli flag, wave it at every opportunity, tell Leftists how much we love Jews, Israel, and Bibi. Then watch with popcorn as Lefty falls all over himself denouncing that and purging Jews from positions of power. Leaving incompetent and White unifying characters like Ilhan Omar as the face of the Party, Media, and Left.

    Embracing Israel is a strategic move by the Dissident Right to get Lefty to purge anyone with brains in his party.

  8. And while everyone here is busy slugging it out in the umpteenth round of that old evergreen, “the JQ,” America just became a little more Mexico and Germany Arabia North. A civil war over the JQ among those of us who get it about demographic replacement, that’s the mother of all Christmas presents for whomever it is who dreams of ‘white genocides’.

    Anyone here, ‘JQ uber woke’ or totally ‘JQ rejectionist’, who can say “eye on the f*cking ball”??!!!

    • The chance to fix America becoming Mexico happened in 2016.

      And that chance was squandered and our hopes were betrayed.

      The rise in people studying the JQ is a response to the recognition that the people in power will not allow us to have any political representation and will not allow us to solve our problems through elections and voting.

      It’s worth noting that 2016 was also an opportunity for them to turn over a new leaf and show they could deal with people fairly, needless to say that didn’t happen.

      • The chance to fix America becoming Mexico happened in 2016.

        Ain’t that a black pill…. I honestly wonder how the hell this is gonna end…..

    • Stealing a theme from Coulter in Adios, you’re yelling at everyone to just mop up the floor and ignore the guy who keeps turning on the water. We can walk and chew gum at the same time. Both causes & effects matter. No one here is saying “I won’t fight beside you for Whites b/c anti-Semitism/philo-Semitism.”. We’re keeping the fight in-house. It’s important but no one’s in a self-destructive purity spiral here, Z’s not ban-hammering. I’m pretty sure Anna’s not with us but even she is helping in her own special way.

      • My point, as I think you’ve already figured out, is that whether or not you are right about the JQ, there is a very significant risk that the JQ becomes a red herring, burning time we don’t have.

        I think it is wiser to focus on a core down-stream problem, ie result, coming white minority, instead of an up-stream, ie cause, issue.

        Dissident right ppl can be undecided about the JQ or be woke or reject it. But they cannot be fine w further diluting the heritage population in America or Europe. I would make THAT the question right now. B/c right now the house is burning down and while later important, arguing over whether it was the oven, candle lights or a mouse gnawing through electric cables, is the wrong priority.

        Fair or unfair, right now there are FAR more whites who can understand that it is dangerous to become minority than can understand the JQ. My point is purely tactical. We have to stop the invasion first. Then we can look at causality.

        • We already got people to vote against the invasion.

          And look what it got them. More legal and illegal immigration, plus the government and private sector weaponized to hunt down… Trump supporters.

          In order to stop the invasion we have to actually obtain political power.

          In order obtain political power, we have to understand it and understand who has it.

          Q-Anon and the plan trusting era in general illustrated the limitations of an army consisting of people with zero understanding of how the system works.

          Remember, we can’t just elect a new, effective populist immigration restrictionist in 2020. It’s either going to be a Democrat or Trump, both will keep expanding immigration to the highest levels ever.

          So part of our task is helping people understand why they were not allowed to restrict immigration, even though they voted for restriction and “won”.

        • It’s a lot easier to make some of those people see this as an invasion rather than “what the Founders wanted” or “the way the world is changing” if they have some idea of why this is really happening.

          I’m saying we can work on both causes and effects. No one is demanding we agree on the JQ, much less resolve it, before we defend the borders.

          Whites who are so afraid of merely being on the same side as someone who’s more J-woke aren’t going to put up much resistance when the other side starts name-calling them, much less doxxing them.

          It’s up to normie-Cons to harden themselves and get their own priorities straight. We can’t afford to moderate so far to court them that we’re no longer an effective resistance. We’re going to face cultural static far beyond what the average GOP’er has been willing to weather. Look at modern Euros for the example – for all that we’ve joked about them being soft surrender-monkeys since Reagan, they’re the ones making effective political moves in an environment without a shred of respect or legal protections for free speech.

  9. I don’t understand the appeal of Prager, and especially Shapiro, to boomer white men. That mewling, whiny-ass, sarcastic voice. So effeminate and pathetic. It’s the same types that gravitated to Woody Allen in the 70’s and Seinfeld in 90’s – a Beta cuck fest of bitchy, complainers, yet somehow always pulling in the top tier tail. Yeah, that really happens guys! I guess if I had zero self awareness, benched two plates, and had a second homeland i could bail to – whenever, I could perhaps feel emboldened to act out like this too. Now that I think of it, revoking dual citizenship would solve half the joo’tude right there.

    • Mewing. Word of the day. Very underrated word.

      I see Shapiro listeners as not so much Woody Allen fans but your basic T1-11 siding boomer. White socks with shorts from JCPenney. Taco Tuesdays. Lots of equity but no money. Outer suburban with Mexicans encroaching. Always have an answer to everything that involves Reagan, The deified Alzheimer’s patient.

      • it’s either mewling (when they’re complaining), or it’s like listening to two cats fornicating on my back porch (when in bitch mode). Either way, ain’t nobody got time per dat! Could you imagine JET, Jew Entertainment Television. Not stop Woody Allen kvetching as he nails hot tang. Followed by sarcastic takes from Jon Stewart, followed by Happy Gimore, followed by girl talk with Chelsea Handler and Bette Midler. When they build the FEMA camps, just put JET on loop non-stop. That will reform even the Enoch’s among us.

  10. Ben Shapiro is one of the few Jews, where when he’s on the radio as I drive, I start screaming “you little kike!” He gave away the store yet again a few days ago, when he sort of chastised Trump for putting the Democrats in a position with Rep. Omar where they have to support her to oppose Trump. So Trump was putting himself before Israel. I said , “a-ha! you sneaky little kike!” I then hit another station.

    I don’t mean to listen to Shapiro, he happens to be on the radio when I’m driving, and I somehow don’r reflexively turn the station until 10 or 15 minutes in. I need to start doing this right away before I wrap my car around a tree.

    Looking at the internecine war between Jews. I can see why Bill Maher and Larry David are who they are, and I would probably be a crazed hedonist hyper secular Jew if I had to grow up with and deal with the Shapiros of the world.

  11. ZMan,
    You say:
    “In fact, Jews in the diaspora have tended to oppose Israel. The ADL, for example, has steadfastly rejected the argument that anti-Zionism is antisemitism.”
    The first sentence MAY have been true at some point in the past (at least before WW2 and more likely before WW1), but I see no evidence that it is true today in America. One can name a few well known Jews in America who would say so, but they are BIGTIME exceptions.
    The second sentence is misleading in the extreme. The ADL is BIGBIGBIGTIME pro Israel, so the implication that they are somehow neutral on Israel and okay with anti Zionism is…not so…

    • Agree.the ADL is one of the drivers behind the current with the criticism of Israel is anti-semitism gutting of the first ammendment.

  12. Z-man, Is this post an experiment? To see how the numbers compare to other topics? Or to suss out certain posters’ positions?

  13. America is the un-nation, like Seven Up is the un-cola. It was founded as un-Britain, severing its historical ties. It was founded as a republic of federated States, not a nation. As the Whiskey Rebellion showed, it wasn’t motivated by “no taxation without representation;” it was purely about no taxation. No standing army, a weak federal government. Remember the Articles of Confederation? Muh Constitution was the later gift of oligarchs.
    The best thing for Our Thing is to return to those roots and strive for a few sovereign states in the midlands. Let the nation cease and Mexifornia fall into the sea. Forget anti-Zionism. Now is the time to be un-American!

  14. Just so sick of ’em. Don’t care about their issues any more.

    I just want to live in my own country, free of the blacks, free of the Jews.

      • Blind deference to the Founders isn’t something you’ll find much of around here. Even still it’s clear the Founders were just fine with enforcing a European Christian culture and overclass.

      • What’s a summer Sunday in America without a Numerican Soviet Ashkepath citing muh Founders for why she gets to tell all of us how to be better people by slobbering over her amazing people’s accomplishments?

        Anna, you are a White Nationalist Treasue. You’ve done more today to J-pill readers here than any of us mere native goyim could accomplish in weeks.

        Keep telling us the truth about who we really are and where we stand beneath you in the world you’ve Chosen for yourselves.

  15. Good essay, until this :

    “The problem with this line of reasoning is that it means America is not really a nation or even a country. It’s just a temporary staging area … it denies the very existence of America as a country, much less a nation.”

    That is simply a non sequitur. And it is wrong.

    Shapiro is not really serious. But it might be useful or enlightening to simply ASK Prager about his sense of loyalty to America and how he relates that to his support of Zionism.

    Who knows – we might get an interesting reply worth another Z-column.

    • A recent podcast Z did (about Yarzony’s conference on “National Conservatism” in DC?) points out Prager’s expressed dual loyalty card – “what would happen if the US went to war with Israel” – after some obfuscation, Prager comes right out and says it could only happen if one country’s democracy became immorally subverted and that “every individual” would have to make their own moral decision about which country was right. This comes from a guy whose entire identity starts with Jewishness who claims Jews have unique focus, tradition and concern for universal morality. Care to bet against him siding with Israel?

    • Prager, as intelligent and sweet as he is, would likely answer your question with a comforting lie. Talmudic Taqiya.

      Do you doubt that Prager’s highest loyalty is to the flourishing of the genetic bloodline of the Ashkenazi?

  16. It’s hard to argue that Jews would be wrong to say were not a nation and just a temporary space for all people. In my eyes, it’s one of the flaws of the immigration from Europe in the last big wave of the 19th-20th century. Whites have no rallying point of ethnic identity, were all some kind of mixture of whites, and that’s a harder hill to climb than a nation like Britain or France has to, in order to get to ethnic-nationalism. It’s not impossible, but it’s harder.

    • They’ve worked hard to make it that way, but there are still real White nations within the USA, and we may be able to re-bond them with a better foundation. Read sites like Counter-Currents, Unz and this one. Check out Greg Johnson’s “White Nationalist Manifesto” ( and Albion’s Seed (

    • I don’t know: ” To Ourselves and Our Posterity” seems pretty specific to me. Of course both parties now repudiate this.

      • Yah, well, that “ourselves….posterity” ship sailed as soon as Immigrant #1 dropped in after 1789 or so. Are you trying to tell us that the Constitution only applies to the original colonists’ descendants?

        Who do you think you are? Vox, the ex-pat?

        • We are telling you that the people who voted for the Constitution never intended the country to be anything but an English Protestant nation, unquestionably dominated by their own progeny, with a compatible culturally subordinate smattering of other Europeans who would accept that hegemony.

          That first immigrant came in under the very first act of the US Congress, under which only “free white men of good character” were even considered for citizenship and even they had more hurdles to clear with their new neighbors and the law.

    • But whites share a common heritage based on Christian principles. That’s why the jews are so hot to stamp out all Christianity — it makes it that much easier to destroy the white European civilizations. All the wonderful European civilizations spring forth from Christianity. All western laws, the ideas of human worth and high-trust ways all emerge from Christianity.

      • They also share much from Rome and Athens in terms of law, logic, architecture, philosophy, aesthetics, art, etc.

        Christianity gave us the heart while Rome and Athens gave us our intellect.

  17. Maybe folks can object to Israel’s policies and not be anti-Semitic. But it sure looks suspicious that most anti-Israel folks are in fact anti-Semites.
    Maybe it’s just a coincidence.
    Because Israel and the USA are allies, any lefty will hate Israel; it really is that simple.
    If Israel hated the USA, the left would love Israel and the BDS movement and any other anti-Israel agitation would have never existed.
    Ben Shapiro would never have to mention Israel in any of his talks.
    The left hates Israel because they are pals with the USA; that’s it really.

    As for Israel’s right to exist, etc, just about ALL the Middle East nations were literally created by the French and Brits (and later by the UN, USA) out of thin air beginning in about 1920 or so (at the end of WWI). This process continued until about 1948.
    Prior to about 1918 or so, almost none of the nations of the present day mid east existed.

    The colonial powers established the nations and boundaries there to provide themselves the best strategic and economic advantages and they placed – literally – into power those tribes that would be friendly with the French and Brits, as the case may be.

    Basically no nation – Egypt excepted – there can claim they have been around forever. Arab and jewish tribes have, but that’s it.

    Personally, I don’t get why the US taxpayer has to send Israel a few billion $$$ a year. They have world class scientists, engineers, etc and they can take care of themselves. They are not some backward, third world hell hole populated by inbred savages, unlike pretty much all the Arab nations.

    As for the Palestinians, they will go nowhere – sort of the mid-east version of Honduras, Guatemala or El Salvador – until they decide their purpose in life is other than killing Jews.
    The Palestinians are ruled by gangsters and thugs who skim off billions of $$$ for their Swiss bank accounts while ginning up their inbred citizenry to wear suicide vests and march into Israel.
    On top of all this, the Palestinians are held in contempt by the Arab nations and they no longer serve the political goals of the Arab nations, who see that Iran is their bogey.
    The enemy of my enemy is my friend sort of thing.

    I have never figured out why a suicide vest wearer never asks the guys directing him/her to wear one why they – those doing the directing – never deign to wear one and lead by example.
    Maybe all that inbreeding has affected their intellectual faculties .

    • “Maybe folks can object to Israel’s policies and not be anti-Semitic. But it sure looks susicious that most anti-Israel folks are in fact anti-Semites.”

      It sure looks suspicious that those who accept Zionist definitions for anti-Semitism all think this.

      “Because Israel and the USA are allies, any lefty will hate Israel; it really is that simple.”

      Every “lefty” with the exception of Noam Chomsky and a handful of pro-Palestinian activists is in Israel’s pocket. Do the names Nadler, Schumer or Schiff ring a bell? How did Ilhan Omar get censured if “every lefty” supposedly agrees with her on Israel? Why has the entire Democratic Presidential slate kissed AIPAC’s ring before 2020 has even started?

      • OK, honest question here:

        If we say Leftists (the useful idiots, not the over-class) don’t like Israel b/c Israel the nation and America are generally allies, then where does the Leftist love of
        Arab/Muzloids comes from?

        I have noticed that Europeans’ general knee-jerk reaction is to favor the Arabs/muzloids and also hate Jews as a demographic.

        It’s an honest question: does anyone’s have a hypothesis about where this comes from?

        THsi sentiment was borne out by the Holly Cost, and now today with the Arab invasion of both the European Continent and England with Arab muzloids.

        I’ve never been able to figure out where this mentality had it’s genesis.

        • On the most basic level, Semitics, Arab or Jew, aren’t compatible with Caucasians. They’re fairly displaced down the “Other” scale from us – temperament, looks, language, etc… Europeans, particularly Eastern, have centuries-running grievances with the Jews, Animosity toward Arabs is more recent, diversity + proximity = war.

          The anti-Israel Left, such as is left of it, is mostly the true believers who see Palestinians and Musims as underdogs vs. ZioAmerica. Their sentimentality lets them overlook nasty Muslim behavior. The weird part is when you see Leftist leadership stumping for more Muzzies despite the anti-Semitic violence. With them, mass immigration is considered net-positive for Jewish interests because it prevents muh Hitler, and some of the Muslim blowback against the Jewish proles can be blamed on Whitey. The fellow Jews that suffer are collateral damage for the greater good.

    • JT;
      Let me let you in on a dirty little secret. US foreign aid to Israel works as a subsidy for US defense contractors that’s outside of the Pentagon budget.

      There is a clear understanding that it is US equipment that Israel will be buying with the money, particularly re. aircraft. And it’s the US military-industrial complex that’s behind this and not those sneaky (((-))).

      • Exactly. It’s welfare for the MIC. And one would have thought that after the scandal (2013) where Israel illegally sold US military tech to China that would have ended. But all that happened was a weak apology and the resignation of an Israeli minister. Now Israel is giving China control of one of its ports. Ho Hum. The problem is that if the MSM won’t cover it and search engines block it, how could anyone be expected to know?

      • Actually, “those sneaky (((-)))” are involved up to their kippahs. They and the MIC scratch each others backs.

    • It’s clear you hate Palestinians for having lived for centuries on land that Jews decided they wanted to steal. Maybe they’re smarter than Arabs (lots of Jews are hyper-religious inbred retards in “Israel”) but I don’t care. They don’t give a fig about us beyond getting us to send our money and spill our blood for their benefit as good Shabbos Goyim. I don’t blame them for resisting occupation—every people has a right to physically resist foreign domination. I feel a hell of a lot more sympathetic for people being dominated by the same tribe of liars, thieves, and nation-wreckers than the occupiers.

      • A plague and a pox on Jews and Arabs both. Let them solve their own disputes but keep out of American and European territory.

    • The label anti semitic is rarely defined which makes is useful in so many conversations.

      The late Joe Sobran was right in observing that anti semitism was a label apt for those who hated Jews but now it is used by Jews to label those they hate.

      Notice that it is rare for Christians to describe the Messias-Deniers as anti-Christian but it would be useful to do so. Every time some Traditionalist is subjected to dynamic silence we Christians should describe that action as Anti-Christian/ Anti-Christ.

      In the world of rhetoric it is not useful to let your enemies always set the rules of dialogue

      The Jews in the west (the majority of whom are decent men) have been allowed to rule the media and the media focuses its attack on any real or perceived fault of a Christian but there is no reason we have to let the media be our teachers and follow them down that rhetorical road of perdition.

      • “The Jews in the west (the majority of whom are decent men) have been allowed to rule the media”

        Larry blames the goyim for allowing the tribe to take over the media. Larry, would you support the sort of measures it would have taken to prevent this media takeover? If not, you end up criticizing the goyim if they allow the media takeover and if they fight it.

        Perhaps those “majority of whom are decent men” are more of a threat than you are willing to admit.

  18. The theme of postive vs. negative identity is a useful perspective for examining the discontents between Jewish and American/European cultures. This is a very compressed broad-brush treatment, so many nits can be picked. These require book-length treatment to address so bear with me and think about the forest rather than the trees. I can’t write a book this morning.

    Judaism is a net-negative identity – Chosen Us vs. Goy Other, exodus, captivity, subjugation, diaspora, expulsion, persecution, Shoah. Ask a Jew to define what they were “Chosen” for – why God picked them. The rabbinical tier like Prager or the Rebbe will say because Jews have a unique sensitivity to issues of morality and justice. You’ll get a scientific and sociological gloss from Cofnas types – we’re smart, we’re tough. we’re sophisticated. Considering Jewish history (and even esoterica like Talmud vs. Torah), but particularly modern history and Jews’ own commentary on that history, you find it really boils down to “because God says so.” There are Jews, and there are Goyim. The tribal loyalty establishment modern Jewry shows for reptiles like Marc Rich, Robert Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein demonstrate the modern reality the rabbis of synagogue and science don’t want you to Notice.

    Europeans, from pagan times to the unique syncretism of Germanized Christianity*, have a net-positive identity. They defined themselves by creation and conquest, not oppression and opposition. The 300 year Volkswanderung didn’t generate a noble us/tyrannical-them mythology like the Exodus. Modern Germany suffered more per captia death, destruction, rape and plunder than any other nation in the World Wars, with the possible exception of Russia. Germans reacted by becoming self-destructively multicultural, altruistic and pacificstic, not more insular, aggressive and paranoid. (Yes, they had (((help))) with that, but the point is, they were appropriate subjects for the social experiment – try giving Israel a multi-generational guilt complex sometime).

    We’re what Duschene calls “Faustian Man**,” a very different creature from “Semitic/Chosen Man.” Huntington and others in the “clash of civilizations” tradition would see this as a Western vs. Eastern cultural distinction.

    Euro-offshoot America’s only negative identity was being “not-British” and to a lesser extent “not-European,” but after the Napoleonic Era, we increasingly aligned with Europe, particularly Britain, and by the modern era, our superpower status wholly erased any existential angst we felt for Europe, moderating to cultural chauvanism at worst. Even during the Cold War where the world was split into two opposing camps, normie-Chad Americans defined themselves by their freedom, prosperity, innovation and creativity rather than merely being “anti-Communist.”

    It has to be noted that over this time, the American Second Founding in the Civil War, the world wars and Cold War not entirely coincidentally coincided with increasing Jewish influence in America and Europe.

    Modern Jews are increasingly incompatible with modern Caucasians for myriad reasons which we J-woke bang on daily around here, but this is one major theme that encompasses a lot of them. On average, they have a selfish, materialist, neurotic and out-group subversive/aggressive mindset that shows little to no regard for fundamentally Caucasian qualities like transcendence, altruism, honorable open conflict and noblesse oblige.

    Credit due to Borzoi, Dark Enlightenment, Spectre and John Q. Publius of TRS’ “Third Rail – Larry Ridgeway Democrats” from this week for breaking ground on this theme. It’s something I want to explore in much greater detail in examining the question of American White Identity.



  19. Judeo-Christianity is an existential oxymoron as the essence Christianity is accepting Jesus as Messias whereas Messias-Denial is the essence of Judaism

    For the Jews the Talmud supersedes the Old Testament and the Talmud teaches that Mary was a whore who was raped by a roman soldier while she was menstruating and that her bastard chid, Jesus, was justly crucified for blasphemy and is now in Hell submerged in boiling shit

  20. The essence of Christianity is the acceptance of Jesus Christ as the Messias while the essence of Judaism is Messias-Denial and so the idea of Judeo Christian anything is an oxymoron.

    The Jews revere the Talmud more than the Old Testament and the Talmud teaches the Jews that Mary was a whore who was raped by a Roman Soldier while she was menstruating and that her child, Jesus, is a bastard who was righty crucified for blasphemy.

        • how does a menstruating woman get pregnant? you do know what menstruation involves don’t you? the shedding of the uterine lining. given that, what exactly would a fertilized egg attach itself to?

          really, you are a genuine imbecile.

          • Being called an imbecile by someone who’s trying to apply medical logic to a religious text written by notorious dissumulators in the Middle Ages is an honor.

            Our whole point was that what they’re saying is a filthy logic-free pack of nonsense but Zio-cucked Christians still run around thinking these guys are their Chosen big brothers.

            You totally missed that in your zeal to score points on the Jew haters and get your virtue cookie. You need to grow up and be more careful with your reading and with your sloppy statements.

          • haha I told you there was a logical flaw, and told you what it is, and you start waving your hands like an old crone with her skirts on fire! too too funny. and yes, you really are an imbecile.

            are you one of V D’s moron followers? if not, you should be…

          • Last time I bother with you beyond refuting you for the sake of others. Grown ups here are trying to build community and share information for the good of their people. You’re a Sargon-tier kidult looking to score Internet Points. I’d tell you to go play somewhere else but it would be futile. /ignore

  21. I can cross this funny and well made music video “I’m not white I’m Jewish” and posted in some twitter post and got many jewish likes and re-twits. I thought that one really have to be very ethnocentric and without any introspection to do that. But many of them most have that mentality.

  22. I doubt Adolf himself was an anti-Zionist. It seems clear that were the British not in the way, instead of gassing sixty-six million Jews he’d have shipped them to the Promised Land instead and saved himself the trouble.

    • The “Transfer Program” proposed by the Reich in 1933 was exactly this. Uncle A would have been content to let the Chosenites live peacefully elsewhere, but Warmonger Churchill wasn’t ever going to have it.

      • because AH wasn’t a cynical bastard. I would be embarrassed to post such pathologically naive shit as you two have.

        • I know the history they’re citing. Pat Buchanan has talked about this stuff for years. Can you back up your position with anything factual, or are you just emoting?

          • By that logic, Salvini is Shoah’ing North Africans. Germans decided to culturally push back on Jews. Jews were upset and shipped out. Some of them died on the boat after they left Germany because other countries wouldn’t let them in.

            “(S)ome historians have estimated that approximately a quarter of them died in death camps during World War II.”

            Some historians have estimated that approximately everyone reading this blog is a white supremacist terrorist. “Some ____ have estimated” is the original fake news trick,

            “These events, also known as the “Voyage of the Damned”, have inspired film, opera, and fiction. ”

            So have a lot of other “events” with similar themes.

            I’ve said many times before I don’t care about rehabbing the history of the Nazis, but the more I see this kind of sloppy pseudo-history used to justify our replacement 70 years later, the more it seems necessary to separate fact from “film opera and fiction.”

          • I had read that Israel wanted the MS St Louis to be refused in the west so that they would be forced to send the jewish refugees to Israel, who desperately wanted to increase their jewish population.

            Also, I was just reading another fascinating Unz piece, this one on the jews and the nazis. Would recommend this juicy piece, full of interesting unknown bits of info.

            “Although the Germans paid little attention to the entreaties of that minor organization, the far larger and more influential mainstream Zionist movement of Chaim Weizmann and David Ben-Gurion was something else entirely. And during most of the 1930s, these other Zionists had formed an important economic partnership with Nazi Germany, based upon an obvious commonality of interests. After all, Hitler regarded Germany’s one percent Jewish population as a disruptive and potentially dangerous element which he wanted gone, and the Middle East seemed as good a destination for them as any other. Meanwhile, the Zionists had very similar objectives, and the creation of their new national homeland in Palestine obviously required both Jewish immigrants and Jewish financial investment.

            “After Hitler had been named Chancellor in 1933, outraged Jews worldwide had quickly launched an economic boycott, hoping to bring Germany to its knees, with London’s Daily Express famously running the banner headline “Judea Declares War on Germany.” Jewish political and economic influence, then just like now, was very considerable, and in the depths of the Great Depression, impoverished Germany needed to export or die, so a large scale boycott in major German markets posed a potentially serious threat. But this exact situation provided Zionist groups with an excellent opportunity to offer the Germans a means of breaking that trade embargo, and they demanded favorable terms for the export of high-quality German manufactured goods to Palestine, together with accompanying German Jews. Once word of this major Ha’avara or “Transfer Agreement” with the Nazis came out at a 1933 Zionist Convention, many Jews and Zionists were outraged, and it led to various splits and controversies. But the economic deal was too good to resist, and it went forward and quickly grew.

            “The importance of the Nazi-Zionist pact for Israel’s establishment is difficult to overstate. According to a 1974 analysis in Jewish Frontier cited by Brenner, between 1933 and 1939 over 60% of all the investment in Jewish Palestine came from Nazi Germany. The worldwide impoverishment of the Great Depression had drastically reduced ongoing Jewish financial support from all other sources, and Brenner reasonably suggests that without Hitler’s financial backing, the nascent Jewish colony, so tiny and fragile, might easily have shriveled up and died during that difficult period.”


            All the stuff about jews we were taught growing up in the U.S. needs to be re-learned. It was all lies. Didn’t jews think the lies would catch up with them one day? I read once a comment by an ancient Roman who said that he could not keep Jewish slaves because they were too obnoxious. Obnoxious is the word.

          • The zionists were importing jews to Palestine since the early 1900’s when the Brits were there. You may want to read up on that yourself.

          • was there anything in the article you consider false or misleading? It’s a pretty straightforward description of the event.

      • MemeWarVet: Not just Churchill. No one wanted the Jews that Germany was trying to offload. Everyone was in economic depression, and just about everyone had already experienced the social and political problems Jews brought with them. And it wasn’t just governments that refused them – there was an attempt to bring a bunch of Jewish kids to the US and public opinion was overwhelmingly opposed. That’s what’s behind a lot of the Jews’ bellyaching about how America and others didn’t “do enough” to prevent their fate (whatever it actually was) in WWII. They knew no one wanted them, and for all their claims of being in fear for their lives, they refused offers of refuge from any country that they felt wasn’t White or first-world enough. Dominican Republic? Nah, they’d rather return to Germany and keep pleading with the US. UK, Argentina, or Australia to let them in. Which they all did, to their detriment, after the war.

  23. “They demand you place ideology over biology, while they place biology ahead of ideology.”

    That last sentence says it all: nationalism for me, but not for thee. I have completely given up trying to convince my fundamentalist family members that they are being flimflammed. If we’re going to save ourselves in some great future struggle with leftists and their allies, you can be sure the damn fool fundamentalists will probably be fighting shoulder-to-shoulder with their Zionist masters along with Lefty.

    • Was it Gregory Hood who remarked that evangelicals went from worshipping a Jewish savior to worshipping Jews?

      Jewish-Christian relations remind me of what Nikita Kruschev said of Soviet-American relations: “You spit in their face and they call it dew.”

    • After relentlessly sending a Christian Zionist friend links, articles, and constantly pointing out Jewish hypocrisy, double standards, contempt for Christians, etc, I finally got her to acknowledge everything I said was true. She then rationalized it by deciding most diasporan Jews aren’t real Jews but Khazars (which, I believe, has been pretty conclusively disproven by genetics) and remains serene in her belief that 144,000 of them will come to Jesus in the end times. Sigh.

  24. A little more interesting for non-Jews like myself is what kind of nation America, not Israel, is. I actually think a nation is its people and their homeland. The whole proposition nation is no nation at all. I once made the point in these comments that a nation that will always pick bright new immigrants constantly is Darwinistically basically promiscuous. It will NOT form a, pardon the expression, safe space for your posterity, ie your genes, in future generations. As soon as something shinier comes along, woops, ‘we re a nation of immigrants.’ A nation of continuous (large scale) immigration is not a broader Darwinian alliance, it is an ongoing Darwinian cage fight.

    • Exactly. There’s a bright line between codding your posterity and subsidizing their conquerors. The world isn’t so lacking in opportunities for achievement and our gene pool isn’t so stagnant that we need to import Juans and Pajeets to “enhance competitition” or for “hybrid vigor.” If those were the real reasons for immigration, these shills would be pushing for immigration TO Africa, India and S. America.

      Not my primary concern, FWIW, but it should also be noted that brain-draining the smart fraction of societies with vanishingly small numbers of high IQ’s is cruel and dysgenic to the foreigners our wine moms think they’re helping.

      • We also used to culturally equip our posterity with the attitudes, knowledge, and skills necessary for survival and primacy. It looks like if you want that today, you must do it on your own, and try to float in a broader sea of mediocrity and self-hate.

    • Yup. I’ll just note that a lot of people are using the U.S. as a staging area for something else entirely. Also that if you take out the U.S. and Israel, the population of Jews approaches zero.

      • This is OBT’s “numbers” argument again. George Soros is just one guy, why is everyone so upset about him? Barack Obama is just one guy….

        Wealth and influence count for more than numbers in a one-man-one vote media plutorcracy.

        • Both Soros and Obama are the visible front men for organizations that go way beyond one guy each.

          • True, but off the point. The numbers argument is intended to discredit and minimize criticism of vastly disproportionate Jewish influence in politics, culture and finance. To the extent it suggests “what’s the big deal, there aren’t enough of them to matter, you’re paranoid” it’s very misleading and counter-factual.

          • My point is that the JQ is mostly an Israel and U.S. question. Try to name a third country that is so permeated with Jews through the top end of education/finance/media/politics/law/medicine. I’m sure there are a few countries out there, but the JQ has the most relevance, IMHO, in the U.S. and in Israel. But the feeding frenzy that exists today is now piling on from every direction. The horse has left the barn, and finding some sort of good answer to the JQ is just a small piece of what we need to do to get back to some sort of good place. I suppose what a “small piece” is, is what we are really discussing here. I willingly admit it might be a lot bigger than my not-particularly-well-versed opinion.

    • The recent Jew-fest around here is interesting. Some people can’t shut up about Jews, but that’s a group that I’ve seen for years. It’s your group that’s intriguing. You seem to find the discussion of Jewish influence and its role in where we are almost distasteful.

      I get the people (probably because I am one) who feel that too much discussion of Jews is counter-productive to our number one goal: Recruitment. (We know that the media and academia (both heavily influenced, if not down right controlled by Jews) are our main impediment to getting whites to think of themselves as a group and a group worth saving. But we also know that focusing too much on talk of Jews causes normies to think that we’re some fringe weirdos, so we put that on the back burner – for now.)

      But I get the feeling that your reluctance to discuss Jewish influence is less about tactics or optics and more about finding it a bit “icky” or low class. Am I wrong about that?

      • I am reluctant to discuss Jewish influence because:
        1. Jews really aren’t that interesting. If I wanted to read about Jews nonstop I’d pick up the New Testament.
        2. I could add nothing new to the topic: it’s all been said.
        3. Talking about Jews feeds their narcissism.

    • “Bored” = I got BTFO’d on this all week.

      If you’re not J-woke, that’s fine, We’re not here to evangelize you.

      But don’t try to rubbish the J-woke and discredit the concept around here if you can’t handle pushback.

      • When you have about twenty or more species of predators tearing at the national carcass, it is dangerous to fall into the trap of “if it weren’t for the ____…”. It’s way too late for that. The Orcs are coming at us from all directions now, including a bunch of home grown white male Orcs. A sort of a feeding frenzy.

        • Naming one major enemy doesn’t blind me to the others. I’m in no danger of confusing the issue, and hope others follow the example.

          I hope you’re not referring to “White Supremacist Terrorists” when you speak of “home growns.” If so, you’ve fallen into a fake news propaganda trap. For the record, there have been 3 recent “home grown” white male mass shooters motivated by muh rayciss* starting with Roof. To re-state the obvious, check out the mass-shooters meme on Twitter recently, 99% non-White, OFC.

          “Orcs” refers to non-Whites – I don’t call even the worst of my people sub-humans. That’s a civ-nat signal.

          *4 if you count Poway, only 1 dead victim though – PS, Enoch and others, it’s pronounced like “ow!” not “oh,” San Diego County sperging off

        • There are orcs, and then there is Saruman, and then there is Sauron. You can try attacking the orcs individually, but there are just too many and they seem to reproduce rather quickly. You can try to attack Sauran, but he’s at a whole ‘nuther level, too strong right now. That leaves the middle-man Saruman, who is vulnerable, and would go a long way to disrupting the orcs’ attacks. The most bang for the buck, as it were.

      • No. It’s BORED. I stopped reading the comments at CH when the JQ predominated and too many people made the parenthesis key their #1 favorite. I’d hate to have to do the same here. So either get busy with the Zyklon B already or STFU. Nobody has anything new or interesting to say about Jews. It has all been spewed before ad nauseam.

        • Heckler’s veto denied. I’ll stop responding to sloppy mischaracterizations like Zyklon references when people stop trying to equate noticing with gassing people. I’m not commenting solely for your amusement, there are plenty of people that read this that are seeking to learn something and don’t care if you’re not entertained. Be part of the solution you seek – stop pissing in our Wheaties and we won’t need to piss back.

        • I get the nuff’ JQ palavering “it’s offputting for recruitment” and “it’s all been hashed and rehashed” arguments.

          It just happens to be the post and discussion of the day.

          Let’s not be too quick to self-censor thought or discourse. Our opponents already do that for us.

          If it becomes JQ everyday I too will throw up my hands in frustration and boredom.

    • I agree with where you are coming from. I only want to discuss the JQ because too many people fail to achieve the balance. WN 1.0 is a road to nowhere, and so is MAGA/Civ.Nat./simpering appeals to modern whites as well. One man of the intellect of Paul Gottfried, Darren Beattie, Michael H. Hart, Michael Levin (‘Why Race Matters’), etc., who can help disseminate ideas of the proper balance, is worth 500,000+ 4chan WN 1.0 trolls.

      Brilliant men, Jewish or non-Jewish, who can disseminate sophisticated understanding of genetics and race, Right-Nietzscheanism, Right-Heideggerianism, and so on are of the greatest value and importance. Catching the attention of intelligent people, especially young people who haven’t been deeply, irreversibly contaminated with Con., Inc., mental/spiritual boomerism, bourgeois Last Man soullessness, etc. is of supreme importance.

      The globalization process, which is being driven by global business elites, will harm massive numbers of Jews as well, and will undermine Israel’s position. More and more Jews are going to break against the tide, and to deny ourselves extremely capable allies is a luxury WE DO NOT HAVE.

      We are not just victims of the Jews. We are victims of the liberalism instituted long before the Jews’ rise to prominence, victims of the trajectories that liberalism unleashes. Liberalism leads to plutodemocracy, female employment, feminism, and low fertility, the demand for cheap labor and open borders, mass capitalist culture of materialism/hedonism that breaks peoples away from ancient traditions and social structures (liberalism replaces the traditional elites and structures that cement ancient religiosity and social order), etc. The JQ are Jewish elites ADDING, as a product of historical grievance and pathological fear of mono-racial/cultural societies, to the trajectories that liberalism brings, via liberal elites pursuing their interests, in any case. This is why virtually none of the non-Jewish liberal elites have turned against the tide that is obliterating us.

      • I can’t help but think that jews were involved and supportive since the beginning in pushing The Enlightenment ideas and liberalism because these beliefs helped break down exclusive Christian communities so as to allow jews in Europe. Now when I read liberal and Enlightenment ideas, I can’t help but think, Hey, those were the early civic nationalists. It’s all very similar to the garbage we hear today about the wonderfulness of all the immigrants we import into the west, to the detriment of white Christian culture.

        Jewish Emancipation and Enlightenment
        How Enlightenment ideals in Europe created the potential for Jewish citizenship.

        “The spread of the ideals of the Enlightenment in the countries of Western and Central Europe throughout the 18th century brought about a profound change in the attitude of the educated class of Europeans toward the Jews. But this new approach was not lacking in ambivalence. Though ready to recognize the equal value of each individual as a ‘human being,’ whatever his origin or religious affiliation, it was totally unwilling to accept the existence of historical groups that sought, for whatever reason, to preserve their separate identity within the state. Furthermore, the demand of certain Jews to be accepted into European society while belonging to the ‘separate’ Jewish group was regarded as hypocritical.

        “As a young man, the well-known German writer Gotthold Ephraim Lessing wrote a play entitled The Jews (1749) with the sole purpose of proving that even among the Jews there were decent and honest people worthy of esteem. In Nathan the Wise (1779), he depicted the Jew as a proponent of natural religion, opposed to positive religions both in theory and practice. To the accusation leveled against the Jews that they had introduced the religious split between human beings and were the first to regard themselves as the ‘chosen people,’ Nathan replies, ‘I did not choose my people nor you your people…I am a man first and a Jew second and you are a man first and a Christian second.’

        “The philosopher Herder, on the other hand, after defining the Jews as ‘a parasitic plant, clinging to almost all the European nations and sucking their marrow to a lesser or greater extent,’ envisaged the day ‘when it will no longer be asked in Europe who is a Jew and who is a Christian, since the Jew will also live according to European laws and will contribute his share to the good of the state.’

        “A substantial section of the educated class in the 18th century nevertheless believed that it was possible to find ways of improving the Jews so that they could be absorbed and integrated into European society, even without altering their religion and beliefs. The Jews, it was argued, had many flaws and were infinitely inferior to the Christians. Yet it was the duty of Europeans to help reform them, ­as the laws of mediaeval Christian rulers and the persecutions by the church were what led to the Jews’ isolation and their preoccupation with trade and money-lending, which were the causes of their moral corruption.

        “The plans put forward included far‑reaching changes in the economic occupations of the Jews, their way of life and their communal organization. In his book on the Civil Reforms of the Jews (1781),C. W. Dohm proposed that they be granted equal rights and complete freedom in choice of occupation, although, above all, they should be encouraged to engage in crafts. He also proposed freedom of worship and the opening of synagogues, the abolition of special Jewish quarters (ghettos), admittance into schools, and permission to engage in science and the arts. At the same time, he advocated the prohibition of commercial bookkeeping in Hebrew in order to increase mutual trust and prevent deception.

        “He also favored supervision to ensure that Jewish schools should not be infiltrated, ‘by anti‑social attitudes towards those who think differently…(and that) some of the pure and holy truths of the religion and moral theory of rationalism (be nurtured), in particular the respect of all citizens for the state and acknowledgement of their obligations towards it.’ Dohm also warned that Jews should not be encouraged to train for state service and suggested that if a Jew were equal in qualifications to a Christian, the latter should be preferred. His point of departure was, naturally, the belief that Jews had a tendency to be dishonest and were afflicted with greed, and that their religious tradition was imbued with hatred of Christians and of the state. A new educational method was required, therefore, under efficient government supervision ‘to prepare the coming generations, at least, for a more moderate attitude toward those with different views.’

        “Dohm’s book greatly influenced enlightened writers in other countries in their discussion of the Jewish question and their proposals for the reform of the Jews. These proposals differed in detail. The French cleric Abbe Henri Gregoire, who was awarded a prize by the Society of Sciences and Arts in Metz for his ‘Essay in the Physical, Moral, and Political Renaissance of the Jew’ (1789), proposed the dissolution of Jewish communities and their transformation into private associations, occupied only with questions of religious worship and not with political or social matters. All Jewish gatherings would be chaired by a government representative and all deliberations would be conducted in the language of the country. Abbe Gregoire was the sworn enemy of all local dialects, but especially of the ‘German-Hebrew-Rabbinical jargon which the Jews of Germany employ and which only they understand, the main aim of which is to increase their ignorance or camouflage their lust.’ In short, Gregoire wanted to restrict to the minimum all those factors differentiating Jews from their surroundings. In 1785 a Polish author had proposed that the Jews be forbidden to use their language in any document whatsoever, so that it would die out naturally. They should also be prohibited from wearing special clothing, from selling alcohol, and above all, in order to reform them completely, they should be conscripted for military service.”

        • I’m not entirely clear on your position, but can anyone seriously argue that John Locke, the Founding Fathers, etc. were beleaguered victims of Jewish machinations? Non-Jewish developed and implemented liberalism lay behind, and lay in tandem with today, the JQ.

          That’s a good excerpt you provided. Thank you.

          • I’d say maybe the jews were a factor in Enlightenment/liberal values being spread, rather than the “Founding Fathers … were beleaguered victims of Jewish machinations.” The jews since the beginning of time have excelled in placing themselves near rulers, money, politics, law and governance and so of course would play a role in the dissemination of political thought, just as they have since forever.

          • Actually, this article describes the “Jewish Enlightenment” that happened after the European Enlightenment. It was like the opening up and integration of Jews with Christians. I’d say the result has been terrible for Christians in Europe and the U.S., while the Jews came to prevail in the U.S. and much of the West. Maybe this is why our Christian ancestors were so much more clannish than we are today — they knew how to protect their people and did not tolerate the dissipation of their society.

            “The Haskalah, or Jewish Enlightenment, was an intellectual movement in Europe that lasted from approximately the 1770s to the 1880s. The Haskalah was inspired by the European Enlightenment but had a Jewish character. Literally, Haskalah comes from the Hebrew word sekhel, meaning “reason” or intellect” and the movement was based on rationality. It encouraged Jews to study secular subjects, to learn both the European and Hebrew languages, and to enter fields such as agriculture, crafts, the arts and science. The maskilim (followers of the Haskalah) tried to assimilate into European society in dress, language, manners and loyalty to the ruling power. The Haskalah eventually influenced the creation of both the Reform and Zionist movements.”

            “After emancipation there was a rise in assimilation, but also in Jewish nationalism. Many maskilim identified themselves expressly as Germans. The Assembly of Jewish Notables in 1806 coined the term “Frenchmen of the Mosaic religion.” Later maskilim, however, also had a sense of Jewish nationalism and combined that attitude with Haskalah views. Much of this nationalism was fostered by anti-Semitism and led to aspirations for redemption by a natural, human effort. This was the start of modern Zionism.”

            “In most of Western Europe, the Haskalah ended with large numbers of Jews assimilating. Many Jews stopped adhering to halakha (Jewish law). The struggle for emancipation in Germany awakened some doubts about the future of Jews in Europe and eventually led to both immigration to America and Zionism. In Russia, anti-Semitism ended the Haskalah. Some Jews responded to this anti-Semitism by campaigning for emancipation, others joined revolutionary movements and assimilated, and some turned to Jewish nationalism in the form of the Zionist Hibbat Zion movement.”


          • I’m not seeing where anything I’ve written is refuted. Liberalism did not originate with them, and although it has brought them to power in the 20th century (alongside massive numbers of non-Jewish liberal elites who are still overwhelmingly “going with the tide”), it is going to turn against Jews in the same way it has turned against whites. Most Jews are not elites on Wall Street, in Washington, D.C., Hollywood, etc., and the state of Israel is going to be undermined from globalization just as all other world states are being systematically undermined. For the latter, Jewish approval of the BDS movement provides just one example (Glenn Greenwald, or the Jewish man who went undercover to make the 4 part Al-Jazeera documentary ‘The Lobby – USA’).

            What I’m detecting, not necessarily from you so much, are whites desperately hoping that if we just remove the Jews, we can go back to being 1950’s bourgeoisie. That is not what we are dealing with. It is a factual error, and a tactical liability, because Jews are going to break, in greater numbers and with greater radicalism, against the same globalism and modern liberalism that are destroying us. They are already beginning to, as Darren Beattie demonstrates. Our position is WEAK, and we need valuable allies.

  25. what would be very helpful in all such discussions as this one, is a systematic approach. which groups are opportunistic in their trouble making (i.e. a symptom rather than a cause), and which are the source of trouble (remove them and other groups settle down). which groups are troublesome, but also have at least some positive contributions.

    to my mind, the irish have been at least as damaging to America as the jews.

    • What percentage of the Irish lecture whites on their racism and begin their lecture with, “My fellow white people?” What percentages of the Irish versus the J3ws are in favor of de facto open borders, would you guess?

      • All Ashkenazi Jews descend from 4 European originally non Jewish women. They have right to call themselves white.

        • Tell that to Rosanna Arquette and the 1000’s of other Jews who’ve been caught on social media doing “fellow whites/I’m Jewish not white” shapeshifting. Pick a team

          Jews would never let an outside group dictate who gets to call themselves a Jew. Whites are the only group with the right to define White.

        • Hi Anna. Sincere question: What percentage of Ashkenazi Jews would you guess identify in their hearts, disregarding what they may say publicly, as non-white?

          • I came from the Soviet Union originally. We Jews only were separated from others not by the skin color as we had same but by stamp in the 5th line of the passport reading “Jew”.
            Soviet authorities had same fear of us as many do on this board. Our group of Jews doesn’t care if we are white or brown, as long as our kids and grandkids aren’t persecuted anymore.
            Can’t speak of American Jews. We vote different from them (80% Republican), we think they have such an open mind that their brains fell out long time ago.

          • I appreciate your civil reply. I assume the Russians don’t stamp “J3w” on passports anymore. What year would you guess that the Russians stopped that practice?

          • When Soviet Union was no more. By the way Putin is the only Jewish friendly “tsar” in Russian history.

          • Off topic, but I wish Putin would just name himself Tsar, or put a pliable Romanov puppet back on the throne.

          • Mongols aren’t White regardless of what the Soviets put on their passports. To be fair, we may be losing something in translation in this conversation. To clarify where we’re coming from on this blog, “White” isn’t just skin color, color is a superficial characteristic. You might better understand this as “European” in the genetic/ancestral sense, Celts, Germanics, Slavs, Finns and some other small groups, and their emmigrants in America, Australia, Canada etc…

            We don’t “fear you” as a group, we oppose the Jewish oligarch-class who helped pillage Russia in concert with the goyim apparatchiks and party bosses, Soviet and post-Soviet. The same kind of elites exercise the same influence here. That’s what we oppose (not “fear.”) The idea that anti-immigrant sentiment is motivated from irrational fear is something propagandists, many of them Jewish, have worked hard to instill in people worldwide in the cause of globalism.

          • Jews and people with Jewish DNA end up with big chunk of wealth and big chunk of scientific achievements in many countries. Hated for the first, disregarded for the second. It had to be G-d’s plan to see how long the humanity He created will continue being hateful.

          • So much for trying to be nice.

            You have to go back, because we live here.

            We don’t care about your wealth, your achievements, or your sorry history. This isn’t your country, it’s ours, and we don’t want or need you here. Go to Israel, back to Russia or straight to Sheol.

          • Mark, maybe because there aren’t as many whites around to exploit and get rich off of in Israel.

          • Anna,

            Yes you nailed it. We gentiles are jealous of Jewish success and exist only as a foil to test God’s Chosen.

            It couldnt be that we grow tired of Jewish influence litigating for only those rights that suit them and against those that don’t (I give you the ACLU’s revealing decision to not defend speech they dislike or their opposition to our 2nd Amendment).

            We couldn’t possibly resent their purveyance of smut and their being at the forefront of whatever corsens our society further.

            It must be our place as mere tool to purify the Jewish people when we notice that at the core of most of our American social unrest now… the money and the leadership roles of these entities include predominately Jewish surnames.

            I’m certainly not saying that Jews are the sole source of our Western societal problems nor do I include all Jews into the equation.

            But what would I know? In as much as I have any agency or reason to exist, I am merely a jealous piece of machine-meat that functions only to test and purify the Jewish people.

            I’d ask you to thank me but that would be as stupid as thanking a microwave oven or a wrench whenever you use one, No?

          • There’s a difference between fearing and loathing, dear Anna
            You & your kind like to blur that line continuously in regards to gays, trannies, Muslims, etc. with the phobia suffix.
            Also, I would have bet money you were a Russian Jew. The same blind
            arrogance comes out in all of your writings. It’s extremely off-putting, and you see it with Bari Weiss, Max Boot, Jennifer Rubin, Noah Rothman & even the patron saint of Lolbergtarianism, Ayn Rand.
            Very, very off-putting & wholly unlikeable.

          • Why do you think jews had passports that indicated they were jews? Was it something jews did to the Christian people they lived among? Or were the Christians just mean people?

    • Admittedly, it took a long time to assimilate them. But it did finally happen. There are still some who cling to their miseries. The Kennedys come to mind.

      • my understanding is they are behind the tradition of city machine politics and all the corruption that brought. they also brought other lawless traditions here. as has been mentioned, they eventually did assimilate, but that doesn’t mean their presence wasn’t harmful. am open to any knowledgeable replies as far as changing my mind on the subject.

        • Italians, Irish & Balkans strained the hell out of the US political system – clannish, bloc voting, politically passive Catholic outlook vs. politically engaged English-German Prot outlook. The lack of massive welfare for immigrants, America’s stronger culture and the 1924-1965 moratorium assimilated them. All of that said, there’s no comparison with Jews. No group has been more socially destabilizing and corrosive, more resistant to assimilation or punched way above its numbers in wealth and cultural influence. Apple-Orange.

          • as i said, it would be helpful to have a systematic ranking, instead of the poo-flinging-chimps response this topic evokes. i guess when all you have is poo, that’s what you go with.

          • You’re mischaracterizing the responses. I almost never see “poo” here. The gut level response that criticizing Jews is “icky/disgusting” is hard to kick – you’ve been hammered with it all your life. Swallow the gut level response and think the upsetting comments through logically. Read up on the subject even though you’re reading “black books.” It gets easier to see the facts for what they are and resist the Pavlovian response over time. It’s possible to level irrefutable and entirely responsible and logical criticism at Jews if you learn to filter your emotions and think hard enough.

        • Karl, my oldest Irish ancestors were brought to America in the 1658-1665 time frame as child slaves. Yes slaves, NOT indentured servants. They were Prots not Caths, and we’re relegated to dirt farming subsistence. From my understanding, the problems with Irish arose with the later, much large Cath wave immigrants coming in with the Italians, Jews, Germans, etc. that settled in the NE, becoming involves in government and the mobs. Oops, that’s probably redundant.
          Maybe someone who knows more about the later waves & how they are woven into the American story can add more, but other than books, movies, and a cursory history learned in school, I can’t say that I do.
          It would be an excellent Z-man series, tracing the different immigrant groups into the country & examining what their influence was then as well as now.
          If someone wants to recommend a non-propaganda source of info about this to me, I’d love to read/watch it.

    • I read this as clutching at equivalence straws b/c criticizing Jews is “icky.” All that cultural effort is really paying off, gotta hand it to them.

  26. Fine, but there are bigger things to worry about than Israel. Don’t forget the apparatchiks who are still around waiting for a successful coup to solidify their control of the government.

    • The very first comment I got on this site was about Israel. To that point, I had never mentioned Israel. I’ve been in the isolationist camp for three decades now, so my Middle East policy is abandonment. Despite that, Israel looms large because it is at the center of the current tumult.

      • About 30 years ago I once read something by a Jew that has stayed with me ever since. It went something like this: “Wherever in the world you find a stupendous shitshow, you will find a Jew at the very center of it.”

        • Wherever in the world you find a great discovery you most probably will find a Jew or person with Jewish genetics in the very center of it.

          • Name one outside of hard science. Name anything that outweighs the damage of Marxism, Freudianism or Critical Theory.

          • Hard science and med discoveries aren’t big enough? There is also theological breakthroughs: Christianity itself was established by Jews: Jesus, apostols, Paul (Saul). Bible starts with Torah (old testament).

          • Science/Med discos aren’t enough to counter the damage and subversion. Net-negative.

            Jews didn’t invent theology, they invented a religion, i.e. monotheism existed before Judaism.

            Christianity was a heresy Jews punished by Jesus’ death and the persecution of his disciples.

            Modern Jews follow the Talmud and see the OT as historical at best.

            The relationship between Judaism and Christianity is more like Judaism’s relationship to Islam than to the ret-conned mythology of “Judeo-Christianity.”

            JQ-101 boilerplate. Try harder.

          • Oh dear, Anna. You ARE mistaken.
            Christianity was NOT established by Jews.
            It was established by God, the Triune God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

            There’s no point in debating theology with you, mostly because 1) it would fall on deaf ears, (yours) and 2) one shouldn’t bother “arguing” religion anyway.
            So I won’t waste my time.

            But if you are Jewish, you might want to ask one of the Catholics or Christians in this group about your assertion above.
            Might be an opportunity to learn something.

          • Of course it was G-d’s plan to spread morality in general and 10 commandments in particular thru Jesus. And then Paul was summoned by G-d to spread it thru Roman empire.
            My Russian Jewish Rabbi compares it to start up: Jews work in development and Christians are great in marketing and PR.

          • There is no hyphen in God. Do jews recoil in disgust if they say or write the name of our Creator?

            “Jews work in development and Christians are great in marketing and PR.”

            That’s funny because it’s the opposite of reality where the Christians do all the grunt work and innovations to make a great society and then the jews come in, take credit and then work their propaganda and predatory businesses to exploit and destroy the nice civilizations that Christians create.

          • Paul was only one. There was James the lesser, Thomas….see, Christianity is not limited by bloodline.

            Your Rabbi, bless his soul, will have a hard time explaining why Talmud rules, too. Maybe that’s your ‘marketing’ deficiency?

          • What is your definition of “great discovery” ?

            Because if you’re talking about hard science and medical breakthroughs – the cold truth of the matter is that much of that has little to no relevance to the well being of the average person.

            Obscure physics discoveries are nice for eggheads to talk about at university, but their real world application is typically few and far between.

            Yeah ok , so Jews have (maybe) contributed heavily to hard physics. What are the most prominent known real world applications of those discoveries? Atomic power and computers?

            So are you saying we should blame the Jews for the fact that we’ve lived under the threat of nuclear annihilation since sometime in the late 40’s – and the fact that every nook and cranny of our lives is now saved in a big data center out in Utah is their fault as well?

            You can’t claim the good – without also getting the bad.

            Quite frankly maybe some of those “discoveries” were things the world could have done without.

            And that’s not even counting the things Exile mentioned.

            Does modern medical science even begin to make up the difference for all the dead bodies produced by Communism?

            I bet it doesn’t.

      • I simply don’t think Israel looms as large as many other things. It gets a disproportionate amount of attention.

        • The Middle East and Israel policy mattered when we were oil dependent. Now we’re not. We could go either way on Israel. It just doesn’t matter.

          • Israel mattered once we imported lots of zionist jews into the U.S. Now we’re hopelessly caught up in the violent mess that brings with it. Though some American and British politicians were pro-zionist in aiding the creation of Israel as a homeland for jews, the reason was that it enabled the U.S. and the U.K. to get these trouble-makers (jews) out of our countries. Only they never figured out how to cut ties once Israel was established. Indeed, today we’re more embroiled than ever in Israel’s maelstrom of politics, culture, aggression, which prove to be very costly and damaging to western civilization.

        • The major problem in the “everything leads to Jews” view of the world is, it results in real-world problems for the Jewish family down the street (in the West or in Israel) when the trouble is actually caused by (does this sound familiar?) the Jewish elite — the central bankers, the globalists, and those in academia, the press, and Hollywood.

          Because we say “the Jews” rather than Jewish elites/globalists (or better yet, just “elites/globalists” without referring to what variety), two problems result: One, the non-powerful Jews just wanting to live for home and family are blamed and demeaned. And two, the Bush’s, Clintons, Carlos Slims’s, the Macrons, Mays , Kerrys, obama’s, DeBlasio’s — too many others to mention — are conveniently left out of the enemy group we are fighting and can do their dirty work, unnoticed.

          Isn’t it nice that those with names, like Wray, McCabe, Clapper, and Brennan– not to mention Lemon, Cuomo, Todd, and Behar — are off the hook whenever these discussions start…because we “know” our real enemies are those amorphous generics “the Jews”?

      • Excellent.

        But…… I would suggest not using the word “isolationist” . Because of the way that word gets used to malign those who would look out for US interests first – I have come to view that word as the language of our enemies.

        Unless of course you really believe in true isolationism – meaning complete non-involvement with the world.

        I didn’t really grok how the word “isolationist” was used as an attack word (similar to “white nationalist” BTW) – until Ron Paul ran for President and started offering up the opinion that the United States should mind it’s own business in the world and take care of it’s own issues. He was against foreign aid, Mideast wars, excessively large military , etc. The neocons and the lefties all pulled out their knives and attacked. One of their primary attacks was that we shouldn’t return to “isolationism”.

        Which is the purest of bullshit – the United States has NEVER been “isolationist”. It has always been involved in the world and has been a major player in world trade pretty much right from the inception.

        What they were pissed about in my assessment – was that their ability to use the US as a tool for globalist goals would be curtailed if somebody like Paul got into office.

        And opposition to “foreign aid” was probably taken as code for opposition to the non-stop funding of Israel.

        • The more accurate term for RP’s foreign policy approach and those like his is “non-interventionist”.

      • One reason is because one-half to two-thirds of donations to the Democrats and one-quarter to one-third to the Republicans are from Jewish sources. Money is the mother’s milk of politics.

        Mayor Buttplug is the Jewish favorite this year. Hollywood, I assume.

          • The crossover between gay, Hollywood, Jew, and lots of money to throw at political campaigns is likely very, very large.

          • Yeah, not having children to use up the cash in those double income households means they have lots of cash to throw around. At least, Gay men do. The Lesbians are usually poorer.

      • I didn’t think Adelson, Singer and Soros live in Israel, do they? Whatever religion Comey, Strzok, John Brennan, John McCain, James Clapper, Susan “The Unmasker” Rice, Rosenstein, the other miscreants and Obama himself profess or did profess, they did their stuff as American citizens right here.

        You don’t have to hunt conspirators in Israel, look in DC.

        • Do you honestly think that because a billionaire lives in America he can’t favor Israel’s interests? I’m tempted to snark but let’s stay serious. Read those billionaires’ own words regarding what they believe about their race-nation. I don’t exonerate any DC lizards you mentioned but your determination to ignore the billionaire donors and focus on the paid stooges doesn’t make sense. It’s the opposite of noticing.

    • Really? I think Israel is right up there. Not because of their history of spying, dealing arms and providing material support to our enemies, staging “false-flag” attacks, and refusing to extradite criminals, but because of the influence they wield over our elected officials due to dominating the donor class in both parties.

        • Lorenzo,

          It is possible to hold two or more thoughts in the mind. The same goes for concerns. You’ve made your point, you dont consider Israel a prime threat. That doesn’t mean U.S. involvement in the Middle East is unworthy of concern. I give you our wars for the past 30 years as counter-evidence. Stop with the “waving off” gestures. This is the subject for today.

        • To paraphrase Queen Ann on Twitter the other day: “Yes, that makes sense. Everyone around Epstein was a HUGE China supporter – Dershowitz, Wexner, Maxwell, Barry Krischer and Epstein himself. Just look at their philanthropies. It screams CHINA

      • There was a trend among politicians back around the time McCain ran for President – where they’d do the glamour shot of them sitting on the edge of their desk , or sometimes behind it.

        Usually figured very prominently was one of those little wooden desk stands with a crossed US and Israeli flag. The one that stands out in my head was a sitting at a desk shot of Sarah Palin when she was McCain’s running mate.

        I do also remember that there were a bunch of eyebrows raised one of the times Romney ran for President , because he journeyed to Israel , before he even announced he was running.

        Once I saw that it became pretty clear to me that Israel had a totally oversized influence on the government of MY country.

  27. Interesting use of logic. Food for thought. Is it possible that Prager and Shapiro are not aware that they are implicitly lying to themselves? Shapiro is too cleaver by half, but Prager always seems to be a staunch supporter of American values, albeit he has of course a blind spot for Israel.

    • I used to believe Prager was sincere but Z in particular has brought to attention things Prager has said that changed my mind. He’s a much more experienced, subtle, sophisticated and smooth operator than Shapiro

    • Shapiro has repudiated his “transfer” column repeatedly, appealing to his youth at the time. In interviews and debates, nobody ever asks him what gave him such ideas when he was a teenager or why he renounced them.

  28. True Zionists actually live in Israel

    I’m a Jew from the UK but Israel is my true home

    I look forward to the white nationalist uprising in the west so that all Jews will return to where they truly belong

    Jews need to get out of America and leave American to take care of its own interests

    I reject the notion of “a state for me but not for thee”, it really pisses off the gentiles and invites even more anti semitism

    The truth about the Jews: we are a nation and ethnicity, and Judaism/The Torah is our national creed/constitution

    Unfortunately, only about 10 percent of Jews in the world are Orthodox and actually believe in this and even among orthodox Jews we are so divided among groups and tribes

    No two Jews are the same and you will never find two Jews who agree on everything

    Really we are supposed to dwell alone (in Israel) and leave the gentiles to do their thing their way, oh and for the love of God, stop taking foreign aid

    That’s my ideal world, but you can’t have everything in life

    • “No two Jews are the same and you will never find two Jews who agree on everything”

      Technically true, but also applies to any two humans, and too often cited as a conclusive refutation of the idea that any two Jews could ever work together against the goys, which is manifestly false.

      “Really we are supposed to dwell alone (in Israel) and leave the gentiles to do their thing their way, oh and for the love of God, stop taking foreign aid”

      We have the basis for a lasting cultural ceasefire and eventual peace with this. Let’s work together to make it happen.

      • Exile;
        So true about human dissent being inborn. In the Dutch Reformed Church there is a standing joke about fractiousness (Yes there really are Dutch jokes) 🙂
        – one Dutchman, a pair of skates.
        – two Dutchmen, a church
        – three Dutchmen, schism

        • That seems to be related to a classic Jewish joke:

          “If there are two Jews on a desert island, how many Synagogues do they need?”

          “Three. One for each, and a third to switch to when they get angry.”

    • Your description sounds a lot like “Novus Ordo” New Age “feel good” Catholics and true orthodox, Traditional (Latin Mass for starters) Catholics (there are very few).
      Everyone is so divided on so much minutiae, that it seems impossible to get on the same page.
      But luckily for ALL of us: Nothing is impossible for God.

    • You get it right. By many Jews taking a anti white nationalism stance this exposes the Jewish Nationalism question. You can’t be a vocal Jewish nationalist then turn around and deny white nationalism. It creates resentment.

    • Probably yes. But white religious lunacy remains and until some other nation invents a some kind of Transnistria or Kiribati Christianity where white evangelicals can have the Jesus abort landing airstrip, the white evangelicals will spend their time burning witches and racists.Every pig finds the dirt and every white evangelical finds something to burn or bomb in the name of Jesus Christ. Including churches in Serbia or Syria. So relax, fuck Jesus and support Israel

      • I think it should be, f*ck Israel and support Jesus. It was the American/Israeli jews and the military industrial complex who had Clinton/NATO bomb Europe (the same people who have us bombing the Middle East). Proper Christianity has been destroyed in the U.S. a long time ago; the main Christianity of the U.S. has been turned into a perverted, pro-war, zionist, pro-degeneracy abomination. God forgive you for saying something so offensive about Jesus. It was embarrassing for you and made me feel terrible.

    • I’m afraid that would leave millions of them in New York and Los Angeles, among them the very rich and influential.

    • BileJ;
      If the Bible is *not* the inspired Word of God, then yes, you might be correct. Otherwise, consequences are unknowable (by us) but not at all trivial. Consider: Assyria is destroyed and gone; Babylon is destroyed and gone; Germany has destroyed itself but is not yet gone…

  29. My Jewish friends (inevitable social context of any Ivy grad) tell me that if Shapiro doesn’t stop wearing that beanie for public appearances they’ll accept Christ as their savior. I believe them. Just looks silly.

  30. There are lots of errors about the question of “Israel.”

    The Catholic church has a nuanced understanding which will make Prager and Shapiro unhappy.

    “The Catholic Church is able to acknowledge the truth that is found in both positions. Along with the dispensationalists the Church acknowledges that God does still have plans for the Jews as a unique people (Catechism of the Catholic Church 674). Paul clearly indicates this in his writings, especially in Romans 9–11, where he indicates God continues to fulfill his promises about the Jewish people by preserving a remnant of Jewish believers in Christ (11:1–5). This indicates a special place for Israel, for no other people has a promise that there will always be a believing remnant. God also has future plans for the Jewish people: One day the Jewish people as a nation will return to Christ, and this will be one of the signs of the Second Coming and the resurrection of the dead (11:12, 15).

    “On the other hand, along with covenant theologians, Catholics acknowledge that the Church is spiritual Israel or, in Catholic parlance, the “new Israel” (cf. CCC 877). This too is indicated in Paul’s writings: In Romans 9:6 he says that “not all who are of Israel are Israel.” This indicates the existence of two Israels. One—”all who are of Israel”—indicates the ethnic people, not all of whom believe in Jesus. The other Israel, the context reveals, does not include those who have rejected the Messiah. This new Israel, founded by Messiah, exists in spiritual continuity with the Old Testament saints and so counts as a “spiritual Israel.” It includes Gentiles who believe in the Messiah and so through baptism are spiritually circumcised (Col. 2:11–12) and are reckoned as spiritual Jews (Rom. 2:26–29).”


    Not likely you’ll hear an Orthodox Jew acclaim that position, but then, there are a lot of Protestants who will not be pleased with that, either.

    • “Supersessionism has formed a core tenet of the Christian Churches for the majority of its existence. Christian traditions that have traditionally championed Covenant Theology (including the Roman Catholic, Reformed and Methodist teachings of this doctrine), have taught that the moral law continues to stand.[6]

      Subsequent to and because of the Holocaust, some mainstream Christian theologians and denominations have rejected supersessionism.[7]:2–3”

      • Any tradition that teaches salvation outside of Christ is heresy, period. Paul’s writings are pretty clear that a remnant will be restored and become ethnically Hebraic Christians. Simply being a Jew doesn’t get you a free pass to Heaven.

      • Exile;
        Uhhh, wikipedia is *not* to be trusted on any subject important to anyone on the broad Right. And this most particularly includes Christian Theology.

        • It’s an accurate summary in this case. The (((moderating))) varies. Never rely solely on Wiki, but it’s not by definition wrong on every subject we might broadly intersect with. (((Moderators))) would “statue-poem” the concept. Jesus’ covenant replaced that of the Jews according to pre-Shoah teaching. The idea of Christians as the Jewish Junior Varsity to the “still-Chosen” is the (((neo-theology.)))

          • Yes. The Catholic Church still teaches supersession, no matter the “church of nice” twits (within) who want otherwise.

    • dad;
      I believe you are mistaken re Protestants, particularly Evangelical Protestants. The position you so well articulate is well within the consensus Evangelical Protestant understanding, AFIK.* The main difference, if it is one, is that we consider the ‘Church’ to be ‘The Church Universal’ and not necessarily any denomination: IOW, all of Christendom.

      I would add that many (not all) Evangelicals believe it to be essential for actual Jews to be in the Land of Israel at the time of the Second Coming of Our Lord. As it is with many other situations, trouble comes from the prideful idea that God needs our help. Hence Christian Zionism.

      Another current of Evangelical thought is that these might be Messianic (i.e. Christian) Jews:

      After all, *all* the first Christians were of Jewish nationality.
      *While it is true that there is no such thing as *the* Evangelical position on a lot of subjects, there is broad agreement on essentials.

      • Thanks, Al, but that’s not my work. It is a quotation from the linked essay, which has a few more subtleties (which might include your understanding of the Evangelical position.)

  31. Around the time of the Iraq War, the leading Jewish voices on American television were liberals and were taking the ADL position described above. There was a huge, untapped market for a Jewish face to tell Christians what they wanted to hear.

    Enter Dennis Prager, and a few years later, the Littlest Chickenhawk.

    • And now for something completely different…….the Mormon take on Israel and Jews! Teaser: The Big Ideological Belief is …..Mormons are also a chosen people…because they too are Jews!

      Am not a Mormon but live in deep Mormon country of Southern Utah. By osmosis from my environment I shall flail around a bit to summarize this topic.

      Mormonism, or the Latter Day Saints, teaches that its adherents are either direct descendants of the House of Israel or adopted into it as converts. As such, Mormons regard Jews as a covenant people of God and hold them in high esteem. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is philo-Semitic in its doctrine. In return, observant Jews such as Dennis Prager et al are favorable of Mormons.

      Hold your breath as we go into the weeds:

      The ten lost tribes were the ten of the Twelve Tribes of Isreal that were said to have been exiled from Isreal after its conquest by the Neo-Assyrian Empire circa 722 BCE. These are the tribes of Reuben, Simeon, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Manasseh, and Ephraim.

      The House of Joseph is a designation applied by members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to the ancient “birthright” tribe of the house of Israel (Jacob) as spoken of in the Old Testament, made up of the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh. The tribes’ namesakes — the two sons of Joseph of Egypt — are first mentioned at Genesis 41:50-52. On and on ad infinitum.

      Okay….Mormons are lost tribers. To complicate matters, in their creation story is father Lehi whom God favors and his son Nephi who learns from father Lehi and is then favored of God. His brothers Laman and Lemuel are ne’er-do-wells and shits, treat Nephi like crap and eventually everyone is at war, until a couple thousand years later, with everyone dead, Capt. Moroni buries the journal, the Book of Mormon, kicks the bucket buys the farm and thus dies the last of the Nephites., in wait of Jos. Smith to get angelic instructions to dig up said journal, translate into Book of Mormon and institute the Church.

      Deeper into final layer of weeds:

      The crappy brothers Laman and Lemuel have family and multiply becoming the Lamanites and go to war against their brother’s people, the Nephites. Mormons have historically associated Lamanites with present-day Native American cultures in North and Central America….and Polynesian peoples….don’t ask me why Polynesian. Strange as it sounds today, such notions of ancestry were widespread among British and American Christians of the time. Many prominent Americans, such as William Penn, believed that the lost tribes ended up in America.

      My observation: I’ve been nattering on for a number of months here that Mormons 1) Love the World-Invite the World. The church gives to the refugee resettlement racket, quietly allows open borders, teaches illegal alien Mormons ESL with church materials and time. 2) The church is an international church beholding to more members outside of the US than inside, from mostly Marxist-lite countries whose LDS members will fuss if the Church were to advocate follow the rule of law and tighten up the border..

      Duh! Right under my nose and I missed that LDS believe peoples south of the border are of the Lost Tribes of Isreal….duh! Waiting for Zion to gather. For the Jews to wake up, become part of the gathering of Zion, then launch into the Second Coming. Can’t believe I missed that.

      Upshot is…..The church will not fuss about borders as no one is illegal, the people south of the borders are Lost Tribe brothers. Secondly, the church is globalist leaning, hence the popularity of Mitt Romney. Plus the church is a Big Business, with Big Tithing coming in, lots and lots of church properties and Lord knows what else the church owns.

      The Big Ideological Belief is …..Mormons are also a chosen people…because they too are Jews!

      Someone here pointed out that Mormon culture has many similar qualities as the Jews, i.e. clannishness, nepotism, success at business, used to be a lot of smart Mormons but now gradually dumbing down (this ain’t a whitie-white-white religion any more).

      You may be annoyed with the Mormans and you may be annoyed with the Jews….but they have Some things to teach us regarding our own coming together as a tribe and advocating for our own. What can we learn from them!

      Z—a good topic for you could be to analyze: What are the qualities in Mormon and “Jewish” cultures that we can learn to benefit our tribe? Why are they successful? What qualities should we jettison? Develop? Can we pick and choose cafeteria style or is this only a whole package succeeds?

      If I got this all buggered up, these are the facts Ma’am, give me a break already. I’m spawn of Trots that is rocketing up to speed. Not too bad considering my background.

      • To add to what RFF said, Mormons have a ceremony called a “Patriarchal Blessing” where a Church Elder does some crystal ball-tier mumbo jumbo and then tells the individual being “blessed” which of the 12 tribes of Israel they belong to. Really oddball stuff.

      • I’m surprised how much you got right, but not as surprised as I am that you got all that info without having joined first.

        I would like to offer a couple corrections as well as a different view point. I’ve been in Provo for nine years, so that might explain why.

        Not a big deal, but most LDS don’t think we’re Jews. Adopted members of the tribe of Israel, like anyone who joins the LDS church, but not Jews. There’s stuff about being literally, distantly, and minutely descended from the tribe of Ephraim, which is why you joined the LDS church. But that is an old belief that implies biology affects your behavior, so most people don’t talk about that one anymore.

        Also, the church leadership is against open borders. It forbids illegal aliens from being allowed to be baptized or for missionaries to advocate or talk about migration. The church has announced in the last couple years that each country can decide for itself how to manage its borders. Illegals will usually just get baptized when they go home after picking season is done, get baptized there, then come back next year and be members in their local spanish ward. The leadership is against illegal immigration, but the membership isn’t.

        Yes, members of the LDS church are slowly converting to progressivism and trying to justify their beliefs with church doctrine. I think it’s coming from BYU trying to get as many ivy league graduates as professors as they can. BYU is the most progessive element of the church and the least is… the leadership.

        The big-time church leaders in slc still teach women to have children and not pursue a career, gays shouldn’t be gay, you can get into heaven, or the temple, unless you’re LDS, and borders should be secure. But the regular Joe and Emma want to be like everyone on tv, so old doctrine falls on deaf ears and Sunday school lessons always have people trying to talk about how everyone is equal, we must be tolerant, etc.

        As for whether we’re like Jews, I’m not sure… I doubt it, because I’ve seen east coast wards that were mostly not white acting like nice, friendly not-whites do, while the white stakes I’ve been in in Utah acted like anglos did on the east coast.

        • Bob….thanks for the time you put into your thought-full response. Will set the stage by saying here in Cedar 3 hours south of you have never heard my neighbors or ward say they are Jews and I stand corrrected…yet by being descended from Manasseh and Ephraim there is an uber strong solidarity with Israel. A part of the Tribe. Check out LDS Living to see endless travel agencies arranging trips to Israel.

          My father went all Jack Mormon then went all Trotsky in the 1930s. I was raised secular yet outgrew my anti-religious asininity. Chose Utah then escaped the Bay Area. Glad to live in a neighborhood that hasn’t gone all 3rd world, no cars rotting to the side, no garbage in my neighborhood, kids sound and look “normal” when playing, aides in nursing homes not hitting old folks over the head with a truncheon and stealing their chump change…yet. Once I landed in Cedar, I decided to see just what an LDS ward and theology was because it would make my Lefty Daddy roll over in his grave (poke! Poke!), you were described as the devil’s spawn by my Jack father so being curious I just had to walk right in and snoot around to see if the devil was in the pew. Ha!

          “There’s stuff about being literally, distantly, and minutely descended from the tribe of Ephraim, which is why you joined the LDS church. But that is an old belief that implies biology affects your behavior, so most people don’t talk about that one anymore.” Bob…I just don’t comprehend what you mean. Can you repeat this concept in a different way so my fish brain can grasp.

          Interesting take on BYU progressivism. Sounds like the church is developing a schism and have heard faint rumblings on such. So what’s with Elder Christofferson’s brother coming out and writing a book about being LDS and ex-gay? Pres. Nelson is sure ripping out the change….Your take? A book entitled (didn’t buy it) “The Next Mormons: How Millennials Are Changing the LDS Church” by Jana Riess also tipped me off of the developing schism. Know a woman here in town who is grand niece of Ezra Taft Benson. She actually quit the church during Pres. Monson’s time over the gay flap…gays and kids of gays not allowed to baptise. That screamed “schism” to me.

          And yet….how you going to keep them down on the farm after they’ve see Paris? You’ve got a problem here, Laddie.

          What also tipped me off was attending womens conf a few years back in which Pres. Uchtdorf gave a talk We Are All Refugees Now. My ears stood up and my brain yammered that equating his experience as a little kid in Dresden during the firebombing with packing in refugees into the States is a straw man argument and does not equate. Then I researched that the church has given over 5M to the Refugee Resettlement racket. Down the road an elder sister missionary was teaching ESL to an illegal, as you pointed out the illegal was probably baptised in Mexico, with Church educational materials, and the church was helping her daughter prepare for a mission. If I may say….Grrrr.

          Not sure what you mean about wards on the east coast. What I’ve experienced and what have ferreted out is…..Utah Mormons! Lot easier to be a Mormon not in Utah. And that’s from a few rare Utah Mormons from other states.
          Best regards.

          • Interesting insider stuff. I need to dig into the Mormons more as they’re an example of a pretty successful and distinctive American separatism that managed to avoid total secession and subsequent Lincolning. Any good histories, sources anyone can suggest are appreciated.

          • Hi Exile! They avoided Lincoln because they had escaped to Utah! Will get back to you with, how shall I say it, a list of middle of the road take and history of LDS. If you read the staunch LDS stuff, your eyeballs will roll. If you read the secular hatey-hate on Mormons stuff, your eyeballs will roll. Will come up with something Reasonable and get back. Night has fallen.

          • Exile, unfortunately a lot of what makes mormonism “successful” is derived from a cultic leadership. A better and less loony example are the conservative Anabaptist groups in America like the Hutterites and Amish.

          • Glad you’re enjoying Cedar! I’ve only been there a couple times, but loved it. Too hot for me, though.

            The literal descendant of Israel thing. The Ten Tribes were scattered, supposedly throughout the world, after the Babylonian conquest. So the Gathering of Israel means, in part, doing missionary work throughout the world to find the descendants of the lost ten tribes. Converts are thought to be part of the lost ten tribes. Or if they’re not, they’re adopted into the House of Israel and it’s practically the same thing.

            But yeah, big affinity for Israel. I knew a lot of people who went to the BYU Jerusalem center for a semester.

            As for a schism, I’m doubtful. There’s a big emphasis on the leaders being chosen by God, so if you split off, you’re not led by God. The splinter groups never get very big. The dissidents will likely just leave without forming their own thing, in my opinion.

            The refuge thing really bothers me. There is a lot of leadership pressure for us to help the ones who are here. Elder Uchtdorf’s stories do sound misleading.

            I think Utah is behind in feeling progressivism’s effects, but trying to make up the difference. A lot of old people who like to talk about how racist they aren’t while living their whole lives only seeing black people on tv. When they’re gone, the demographic numbers will catch up with Utah and it’ll be a lot browner. I’ve talked to a lot of liberal people in Utah and a number of our types. I think the current high school crop is 50/50 far right and far left among the whites, who are not yet too far from being a minority at school.

            Who knows what the future brings?

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