The Rewind

In his book The End of History and the Last Man, Francis Fukyama argued that humanity has reached the end-point of mankind’s ideological evolution and the triumph of Western liberal democracy. This does not mean stuff stopped happening, just that the evolution of political thought had reached an end-point, where liberal democracy was the best we could muster. All the alternatives had been explored and tried only to fall short of what liberal democracy could provide materially and morally.

There is a lot to be said for and against Fukyama’s claims and whether he is even the first person to make this argument. Alexandre Kojève made similar arguments from a Marxist perspective in the middle of the last century. Given the trajectory of liberal democracy since Fukyama’s book, Kojève has the better claim. Regardless, there is no doubting that the West has gone a down a cul-de-sac of sorts intellectually. Whatever comes after liberal democracy, we cannot imagine it.

This dead end is most obvious in fringe politics. This debate the other day between an anarchist, a Marxist, and some flavors of fascism is a good example. The debate itself is puerile and stupid, but it is illustrative of the state of the fringe. Rather than debating novel ideas as alternatives to the current orthodoxy, they shout at one another about archaic ideas that have no salience in the modern age. The far Left and far Right these days just engage in a form of live action role playing.

Fascism and Marxism are as relevant as the free silver movement, but for people unhappy with the status quo, and hoping to seem edgy and dangerous, they are the only options. Classical liberalism is what suburban dads embrace when they are unhappy with the status quo, while mom can throw in with the gynocracy. The middle-class radicals are left to embrace old ideas that never had much purchase in America and have not been popular in Europe for close to a century now.

One common item to both sides of this fringe debate is the unspoken agreement that the current order is unacceptable. Their critiques of liberal democracy fall into one of two categories. On the one side, the claim is the system does not adequately provide for the material comfort of the people and the wrong people benefit. The other side mostly focuses on the wrong people benefiting, but largely agree that the system does not adequately provide for the materially well-being of the people.

Strangely, the race angle is mostly a prop, a fig leaf to disguise the fact that both sides largely agree with one another. Both sides agree that socialism is the right economic model and both sides agree that the bankers and corporate executives are the bogeyman in this drama. The neo-Marxists, however, make a big deal of being anti-racist, despite all of them being white, while the neo-Fascist make a big deal of being racist and anti-Semitic. Race is mostly a costume for both sides.

There is another element to this neo-revanchism we see in fringe politics and that is the strong desire to start over. Having reached the end of the tournament and being relegated to the loser bracket, the various teams in fringe politics now seek to start the tournament over again. It’s why the Left side calls themselves anti-Fascists and the Right side embraces the Fascist aesthetic. It allows both sides to believe they can start the process over again and this time, get a better result.

That’s why both sides were hoping the virus panic would destroy the economy and usher in a great depression. The Right-side imagines people taking wheelbarrows full of cash to buy food. The Left side imagines working men being entertained by folk singers after they hear a speech by the local communist cadre. There is the assumption that if the whole liberal democratic order fails, we just rewind the clock and begin the process over again, but this time with a different result.

Another angle to this neo-revanchism is a new romanticism among younger white males for a return to a what they imagine was a more honorable and possibly heroic way of living as political actors. They want to be poet-warriors, who read political philosophy and fight the enemies of their cause. The neo-Marxists kit themselves out as beatniks and repeat lines they picked up movies about prior left-wing movements. The neo-fascists embrace Nazi iconography and language.

Richard Spencer tapped into this romanticism with his Faustian man act. Prior to his ascension as the face of the alt-right, he busied himself writing banal paleocon essays about current events. Then he started doing videos and speeches about how it was the destiny of European man to conquer and rule. He threw in enough literary references to pass himself off as a philosopher. A lot of young white men fell for it, because they dreamed of going back to a more honorable and heroic age.

Of course, this type of fringe politics is almost exclusively male. In fact, the reason for so much interest and energy in fringe politics in general is that mainstream politics is almost completely feminine now. Both sides of the liberal democratic order are dominated by harpies and schoolmarms. There’s simply no place for a normal male in conventional politics, so normal males are filtering into antiquarian politics. For many, this is just a better version of the video game of life.

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274 thoughts on “The Rewind

  1. The founding fathers also flirted with antiquarian politics, merging them with the new philosophy of liberalism. While I think arguing endlessly about Hitler can look like silly larping, there are lessons to be learned from that time period. But that video you linked was a complete sh*t show, as most you tube debates are.

  2. For some reason today’s article has really blackpilled me despite the absence of novelty. To wit:

    We’re out of ideas.

    Ideas don’t matter anyway, it’s control of communication channels and modern manipulation techniques that herd the sheeple.

    Our overlords have prevailed, and they are not fellow Americans even if they hold a US passport.

    Men are effectively neutered and spayed.

    Everybody on this website lives in The Matrix despite their best attempts to preserve autonomy.

    We have very little influence let alone control over our respective fates.

    Zoomers, our hope in futura, are chasing car tires.

    It’s bourbon tonight then because tomorrow it’ll be the bug meal and soma.

  3. The alternative model coming, I think, will be a form of UBI.

    The medical brother in Hawaii trains nurses.
    He’s suddenly getting all of 8-16 hours per week.
    This, in the middle of a pandemic.

    Hawaii’s response? They put out a call for 20,000 hospital volunteers. They don’t want to pay the providers, they want them to work for free- because “everyone has a right to health care.”

    As we get a flood of fake money, I think the trickle-down will be rising demands of “volunteerism” and “charity”. Or else.
    Don’t want to miss your prole allotment, do ya?

  4. I’ll take issue with everyone: Spencer, Sanders, Fukuyama, etc. Ideology is just the dress suit for CLASS conflict and the emergent transnational managerial class that sees itself as its own race and nation.

    Eric Swallwell famously threatened to nuke Kentucky and Tennessee over guns. That is not the threat of an ideologue but one of a separate nation’s leader.

    And it was clear BEFORE the virus that the managerial class had a future for the deplorables their natural enemies: a shipping container to live in, UBI and streaming Politically Correct games and tv shows, beans and bugs to eat. Recently feminists have upped the ante demanding (and feminists always get what they demand) an end to the nuclear family and the managerial state step in and assign people of different races who are no relation to each other to live together. Rabbit Proof Fence for White people.

    A careful reading of this weekend’s Financial Times has many clues throughout the issue of where the managerial elite is headed: UBI for everyone by just printing money (akin to Ilhan Omar demanding the minting of $1 trillion coins). A bubble headed 50 something blonde bimbo is featured in Lunch with the FT demanding just that — and she’s the senior economic adviser to Democrats. She seems to think that the Bronze Age Near East traded government debt, and that palace economies work just great.

    So the plan is: A. Remove Trump (easy, a judge will rule vote by mail, and presto President Stacey Abrams! after a two week run of the Joe Biden hands-show). B. Force everyone into shipping containers with random strangers, save of course the managerial class. C. Give them minimal UBI with bump-ups for gay, Black, transgender, etc. D. Make them eat beans and bugs. E. Turn over the nation to China and angry Black Lesbians with themselves as the managers.

    This is the plan, incorporating the critical needs of the Managerial Class: 1. The HATE HATE HATE of beta White males by the women in their lives for not being the brutally dominant sexy criminals they demand. 2. The bitter, awful fear that ordinary people might at some point be happy (otherwise to quote Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy, what’s the point of being rich (a manager) if ordinary people have nice things too? 3. Worshiping freaks and weirdos the way most feminized societies do.

    That plan is likely to meet massive resistance. You don’t take away a man’s truck, beer, barbecue, and NASCAR and replace it with beans, bugs, and a shipping container without a real fight on your hands. Already in Michigan, Kentucky, and California people are either ignoring governors and going about their business (CA) or protesting in front of the Governor mansions. People are more loss averse than they are risk taking; the plan by the Managerial Elite to lock people into shipping containers and give them a massively lower standard of living and personal freedom is bound to create a fight which I think frankly they long for. They overestimate for how long the police and military will obey them when they can see a shipping container with a bug meal with their name on it.

    President Abrams in particular would be a recipe for civil war. She really believes in “magic” that somehow she can create a nation-wide force to push every White man into a reeducation camp. Which is something only a low IQ angry White man hating Black lesbian could think likely. Hence her promise to send the National Guard door to door in White neighborhoods kicking down doors to grab guns and anything else they might want.

    Already we are seeing the second wave of food shortages: meat packing plants are closing down, dependent on poverty level illegal immigrants and appalling working conditions. Eggs are almost non existent in California now, milk is becoming very scarce, and this pisses off ordinary people who can’t have their maids go to Whole Foods and scavenge up the $30 a half gallon natural organic imported Icelandic milk.

    The wild card is the military class. They are largely separate from the Managerial class, and while plenty pozzed at the top end, those who actually deploy or have deployed have had some contact with reality. Like figuring out who it is lobbing mortars onto their forward base, and stopping them without technically violating standing orders. Or figuring out how to conceal handguns on them when meeting with supposedly allied forces on base subject to sudden jihad syndrome. Even though technically they are supposed to be unarmed.

    These are the Captains, the Majors, the Lt. Colonels who see their career ending in a sea of UBI payments and military downsizing and have open contempt for people without an ounce of physical courage and ability. When people start starving and a mass of unemployed in the amount of say 50 million march on Washington, could they act? Would they act? If the change is from being in command of say, a thousand men to living as a plebian in a shipping container with bugs and beans and random hostile strangers from a different race/religion/clan?

    None of this has to do with liberal democracy, fascism, or communism. I agree with ZMan, those are yesterday’s ideologies irrelevant to today’s class struggle of the insider managers who form a mostly closed system versus everyone else.

    • They want to make us live in shipping containers and feed us bugs and beans? I’d think you’re being rhetorical but you said it like 4 times.

  5. Well ANTIFA and Fash could start shooting at each other…that would at least de feminize the mess.

    Z you’re great at sardonic criticism, but light on solutions besides “talking to people” and I guess winning over some normies taking you at your word.
    But how does talk solve anything?
    Especially when it restates commonplaces we all know?

    To talk is to womanize the matter.

    Since talk is useless and apparently masculinity is fringe, perhaps try winning over the action role players?
    As they will in fact we know- act.

    • miforest said: ” commentary about the end if history, so to speak
      without families there is no tomorrow, under any system”

      From Roe v Wade 1973 to 2018:
      60,069,971 Abortions in America.

      ” It was once said that the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children…”

      Hubert H. Humphrey

  6. At the birth of the alt right it was Paul Gottfried mentoring Spencer so that he could succeed where the paleocons failed. The whole thing seemed almost as anti-paleocon as it was anti-neocon. In Gottfried’s defense it’s clear he didn’t see where it was headed.

  7. You cannot stop the Apocalypse, only endure it and prepare for judgment. If you have to larp political theater to cope, so be it. Just stay off my lawn. I don’t give a f**k whether you are larping as a commie or a nazi or a batshit crazy otherkin until you fail to leave me in peace to live my life as I choose.

  8. Regarding masculinity, I seemed to get the best returns from tactfully standing up to my superiors at college. Most didn’t like the lip, but some appreciated me for it, and I only got reported to the administration one time. Once, our 50-year-old Immigration Literature professor even drunkenly came on to me at a party she invited me AND MY GIRLFRIEND to. Girlfriend thought it was absolutely hysterical; I was traumatized.

    Whenever I spoke up in class against flagrant nonsense, by and large, I was treated by women (and to a lesser extent by men) as though I were a John Wayne, even though my balls are several orders lower on the Mohs’ scale than his. Nevertheless, you were always required to acquiesce to the left at the end.

    • I only liked challenging a professor when he was the type who could handle it. If the professor was weak, peevish, or ignorant, I’d just lob her a low-key subversive question and be done with it. Just so the class understood that her view wasn’t the only view. But yeah, with profs who weren’t intellectually secure, you had to worry about them taking your contentions personally, i.e. that you were “showing them up”. And them getting you back through bad grades. From a tough exchange point of view, some of my best profs were Jewish guys.

  9. Spot on article, Z. I’m a Gen-Z college student, and I’ve seen all kinds of male radicals there. Another part of what is going on with all this is that the spiritual justification for liberal democracy in America died with Christianity: the idea that there would be justice and equality for everyone in the afterlife. So the losers of our system, in terms of money, sex, etc. get no comfort for their suffering in this life or the next, and the winners have no moral fear of going to hell forever if they exploit everyone else. What do the losers do? As you say, they try to embrace some alternative moral system– one that has lost its lustre but at least is not as soulless as the world around them and gives them something to fight for. Marxism and fascism are two such systems. My crazy former roommate, for instance, idolized the Kurdish lib-soc system, and wanted to go off to Rojava after college to fight for the cause. (He was also severely depressed to the point that he hardly ever got out of bed.) But others include Trad Catholicism and Classical Paganism. Just look at the amount of Crusader and Greco-Roman LARPing among right-wing Zoomers. Old art is beautiful, but people who see Alcibiades or Charles Martel as models for life in modern America are clearly rebels looking for a cause.

    But I’m very concerned about what happens if these men (I include myself here) don’t find a purpose. The lack of reasons to live is one reason why the suicide rate is going up and life expectancy is going down among the young. Another related thing would be cults: these guys are ripe for radicalization by anyone who actually gives them hope. A lot more of them will be open to do a mass shooting, for instance, for anything that accepts them. What makes me sad is that by and large, the churches don’t know how to appeal to these men. I go occasionally to an Orthodox church, even though I don’t really know what I believe anymore, because the environment is beautiful and listening to the liturgy makes me think about the glory of heaven. I wish more churches were beautiful like that, and knew how to talk to these guys, so that people like my roommate wouldn’t be on the brink of suicide.

    • All true. I just live streamed a church service where the pastor compared the “sheltering in place” of the apostles prior to the appearance of Jesus to our current “shelter in place.” I literally said F……U!!! as he was saying that. Christianity is as dead as a stone these days. I don’t know why I bother. Yet I do.

      It’s Nietzsche’s bifurcated choice. Do you want to be the last man or the superman? The older one gets the more it’s the last man. The cowering pussy-whipped cuck. They have little shreds of things to lose, like 401ks and they lack the vigor and impulsiveness of youth. As far as anyone under, let’s say 35, most don’t even have that. So they’re slightly more likely to go out as the Superman. I totally understand why many Zoomers are like this, and aspiring to be like Charles Martel may not be that bad. Mine only aspired to be wiggers.

      • Missing Easter felt symbolic. It’s a theologically social holiday, when Christ returned to Earth and began to manifest his gifts in various public settings and ways. He came to the frightened disciples and exhorted them not to doubt the truths they had witnessed. He empowered his apostles to speak the truth amidst crowds of people who could have reported or assaulted them. Even men of other tongues and nations understood the meaning of the apostles’ message.

        We couldn’t have any of that right now, could we?

        • Sitting on a couch eating Doritos and streaming Netflix because nanny-state says there’s a virus outside is just about the exact opposite of a group of men huddled in a house, waiting for the centurion knock on the door to take them to their grim deaths. We’re only nominally Christian these days.

          • I get it. My main point is that people seem to be afraid of violating any aspect of executive orders that have no basis in reality. Supposedly, we’re past the peak, yet businesses and pedestrians around here are getting more manic.

            And I suspect that if you are public enough about your dissent, the centurions just might come.

    • Hey Maths, you are on the right path. We are wired to seek transcendental values: truth, beauty and goodness. Keep going to the Orthodox liturgy or to the Traditional Latin Mass. At root, these are rites that demonstrate the very transcendentals they explicate, i.e. they are sacraments. The integral relationship between prayer and belief is summed up in the ancient maxim lex orandi, lex credendi:

  10. While I’m at it…

    Everybody gets imperial decline wrong. They think that the problem was there were no smart people who knew what to do to make things better. But there almost always were, and even centuries worth of 20/20 hindsight largely validates what they wanted to do. No, the problem was that even though plenty of smart people knew what needed to be done, the system of power in place at the time was so calcified, so sclerotic, so riddled with squabbling factions, and so wracked with crony corruption that none of it ever got accomplished.

    • Yes I concur but I would add this taken from a story about the old mining towns…
      There were, as we have seen, good men in these camps — although the best of them probably let down the standards of living somewhat after their arrival there; but the trouble was that the good men did not know one another, had no organization and scarcely dared at first to attempt one. On the other hand, the robbers’ organization was complete and kept its secrets as the grave;
      It has a lot to do with the smart people not knowing who they can trust to work with to do any meaningful change…

  11. Faustian man should be ideal and credo of the European man
    It is unfortunate that cowardly self-serving effeminate parasite Richard Spencer has appropriated of and tarnished such a promethean concept
    Jut think about a clown preaching Faustian man and the conquering empire ending up being a Karen, a snitch (literally), begging government to to lock him down
    The irony of the highest order

    As for the author equaling leftoid lunatics with “fringe right”, I have been here for a relatively short period of time but ” Democrats are real fascists” seems to be a prevailing theme here
    No wonder then that Faustian credo (independent of Karen Spencer) has been looked upon as something undesirable, “larpy” and as “the thing of past”
    To somehow suggest that looking at best of our past as an inspiration and a blueprint for the future equals wanting to literally return to the past is myopic at best and intellectually dishonest at worst

    • BF, some folks here are just getting red-pilled and some of us are further along. I’m familiar with the “Faustian/Agonist” concept and think it has a lot of merit in terms of why we’re not like the other higher-functioning races/ethnicities.

      Many guys including Z are not comfortable with the amount of Hitler-rehabilitation efforts that TDS and others put forth, but there are plenty of J-pilled commenters here. Some of us are kind of a third position from TRS and Z in saying “discredit Holocaustianity but don’t re-litigate WWII.”

      If you’re anywhere on the J-pill spectrum but Christian Zionist, you’re among friends here.

  12. Many erstwhile fascists today don’t appreciate that every actual implementation of fascism in history has been unique to its time and place in many ways – from the Romans who gave us the term to Benito to Salazar to Birthday Uncle to Peron*.

    An American fascism, for example, would have little need for “lebensraum.” Yes, there’s plenty of sperg-fuel for debating whether this was an integral element of Hortlerism, but it’s not as if Salazar was looking to carve off chunks of Franco’s Spain.

    Mein Kampf isn’t necessarily Euer Kampf or Alle Kampf. But the recent rainbow of responses to Corona in the “free world” suggests that the Black Books of Authoritarianism might contain lessons that merit consideration, contra the best policing efforts of right-flank optics-gang

    In the Before-Times, a rational discussion of fascism was possible in dissident right circles. There’s even a Z podcast on “fringe politics” that includes the topic.

    Now it means little beyond “authoritarianism I don’t like.”

    * Note this list does not include disgraced straw-fascists like Spencer or Hamback. It’s very important to some that any f-word discussion include them b/c reasons – but not to me.

  13. you’d think friends of pagans would prefer Cicero to Hegel… wait akshually, they are both prophets to them lol… only in paganism can this contradiction happen…

    at any rate, yeah true, nothing new under the sun, unless we look closer for Truth and find it according to God’s Providence for the time. but only if there is something else to be found. otherwise, keep what works if it does… such as, the 2000 year old body that banned incest, pederasty, blood/nature sacrifices, and regulated the sexual market to give most men one legit woman (and incels a place to hide in).

    an example of a new thing that Sol Invictus didn’t see but man through God’s Holy Spirit/Reason did see? germs. i’m pretty sure most of history we were okay leaving medical care to nuns and alchemists and leech-doctors because we hadn’t ever seen germs. when we did (some of those “useless” monks helped), we had to switch gears and fund those costlier, secular corpo-lib degenerates we tend to call doctors. Doctor Fauci is a prime example, he strikes you as the kind of doc who’d order an extra night of hospital stay while waiting for appendix surgery because staff cannot be bothered with lesser/no insurance, potential appendix rupture be damned, because Medicaid will pay for it all the same… thus, as you can see in the example, leeching never went away, but perhaps presented itself in a new form.

    so yeah, i know we can’t look always backwards, we have eyes and feet forward and all that. however, if the current era’s troubles were caused by the loss of certain elements of the earlier order (patriarchy, God, unions, solid currency, white babies), the very least we could do is go back to the scene of the crime. specially if at present or future there don’t seem to be alternatives to at least some larping. heck, even the “Science” points to the past, as we here read Prof Dutton, Caldwell, and/or Lothrop Stoddard. even those who attempt to break the paradigm end up referencing the past, i.e. Guillaume Faye (sp) and his archaeofuturism that only makes sense in dry fiction. besides, the amount of incels today by the absolute numbers is nearing Weimar levels… so perhaps looking at similitude helps catch trends.

    one thing clear is, the movement needs not just making lithographs/pdfs of SS posters or pre-V2 Roman Missals; as beautiful as those are, the small changes in the details that the modern world has introduced (example, computers) means that likewise we need updated pageantry – but unlike Vatican 2 in practice, that pageantry MUST keep the traditionalist substance. in short, the movement needs Art – that is, at the very least, a sensorial-trascendental emphasis that lifts us off the blogs and stats and Evola commentaries, and into normie consciousness. it’s not even stump rhetoric, that would only help get us the attention of those weirdos who already would today watch a Spencer-Shapiro debate (nonwithstanding both would be awful and avoid legit confrontation anyway). we need the attention of normies who on one hand have been so thoroughly indoctrinated by Jew-Masonic “art”, but who still within that window move looking for tradition as a blind man looks for a furnace in the cold – those who already know some tradition and dig Jesus, Westerns, Roman movies; those who feel the white pain of Elliott Smith or Scott Weiland or Ian Curtis, or even lefties like Lennon or Roger Waters (these suffered the breakdown of the family after postwar secularization); those who start noticing the darkening and feminization of sports; those who notice the ancient aesthetic elements of EDM festivals but notices the rampant degeneracy promoted against whites by (((those running these shows))); those who loved punk’s rabid energy and Sid Vicious’s shirts but hated pozzed Rotten selling out; those plastic artists who are tired of shapeless forms and pozzed/darkie hipster-murals promoted by (((certain influencers and patrons))) ruling the art-world; and so on…

    if we don’t have this new-OIde Art (again, same pre-45 substance, updated outward forms), then larping and videogames will continue; without offense, the next best thing is castle defense. but again, that can only go so far. and all this is coming from someone like me who likes the Southern Agrarians and Distributists/medievalists, and feels they still hold some value against liberal democracy- but just like not everyone will code, not everyone will farm… and all may listen to the Latin Mass, but some may prefer Johnny Cash in the car after…

  14. Much of this is because we cannot conceive of an alternative beyond capitalism or else socialism. If you reject capitalism, then you are left with a socialism of either an international or national character. Because our guys prefer the nation, and their guys hate the idea of a nation because it is a family, we land on this fruitless debate.

    But that’s the economic part of the debate. Capitalism is such a failure that these guys confuse it with basic property rights, supposing for some reason that the two are the same thing.

    • The problem is that “capitalism” is confused with “the free market.” Capitalism naturally ends in oligarchy, which screws us all (United, American, Delta or Southwest cattle cars). The seats on Delta are just a slightly higher grade of naugahyde. That’s our choice. The free market (which is an ideal) needs to be continuously defended by (insert authority) to break up monopolistic entities, otherwise you get Capitalism’s end result (today) where every company is some version some rapacious old ma-Bell that gives us sub-standard service and bribes politicians for cheap slave-labor. But don’t post this on a libertarian website because suddenly the cool rationality of libertarians becomes a manic shouting down of your post.

  15. Yeah, yeah – everybody at the height of empire thinks it’s going to last forever, that they’ve got the cycle of rise and fall beat, that surely they will be the ones to outsmart Plato and finally prove him wrong after 25 centuries. Sure, every other empire rose in hobnail boots and declined in silk slippers – but not us, for some reason! Then, when the decline becomes undeniable, everybody’s got their pet theory about what’s going to stiffen the backs of the people and restore the empire to its former glory. Sometimes it even works for a generation or two (How’s that for “flattening the curve”?), but it really only ever staves off the inevitable for a little while, and then it’s right back on track.

    The future isn’t predictable in the small scale, but in broad strokes, it is. Every empire gets its moment in history’s spotlight, then starts to fade. It loses its social cohesion, loses a few imperial wars, loses control of its destiny, then starts losing territory. In the end, goats roam the ruins of its capital, pissing on the bases of crumbled statues.

    • In this instance, they will be herded by the conquering Moslems, if they can vanquish the conquering Chinese. That is going to be an interesting matchup.

      • As Spengler pointed out with others -most notably in agreement with Gibbon – Rome has lost 90% of its population between the Augustininan age and by the time the Huns appeared at the gates, turned back miraculously by the exhortations of the Pope.

        Gibbon attributes the decline to Christianity, but it is not the generally accepted view, most moderns favouring economics to transcendence. Nevertheless, Gibbon is mostly right, although not in the way he himself understood his argument.

        Christianity sapped the strength of the pagans, not the christians. Without the Faith, they lost the will to live and reproduce, having no children, they disappeared and the Christians won by default, they were the last men standing. As the Lord himself taught, few are the saved and many are the lost to perdition. So, the ten percent of the population kept the commandments, was fruitful and multiplied, and by the time of Attila, they were the only ones left.

        Something similar is happening today. The west’s post-christian – or neo-pagan – population is rapidly disappearing, and only the real faithful christians and the muslims who never accepted modernity will be left in the future. The secularists and faithless are doomed to disappear.

        Thy will be done!
        Benedicamus Domino!

    • “…When reason have to be put forward at all in a question of life, life itself has become questionable. At that point begins prudent limitation of the number of births. The primary woman, the peasant woman, is mother. The whole vocation towards which she has yearned from childhood is included in that one word. But now emerges the Ibsen woman, the comrade, the heroine of a whole megalopolitan literature from Northern drama to Parisian novel. Instead of children, she has soul-conflicts; marriage is a craft-art for the achievement of “mutual understanding.” It is all the same whether the case against children is the American lady’s who would not miss a season for anything, or the Parisienne’s who fears that her lover would leave her, or an Ibsen heroine’s who “belongs to herself” – they all belong to themselves and they are all unfruitful…

      At this level all Civilizations enter upon a stage, which last for centuries, of appalling depopulation. The whole pyramid of cultural man vanishes. It crumbles from the summit, first the world-cities, then the provincial forms and finally the land itself, whose best blood has incontinently poured into the towns, merely to bolster them up awhile. At the last, only the primitive blood remains, alive, but robbed of its strongest and most promising elements…

      Consequently we find everywhere in these Civilizations that the provincial cities at an early stage, and the giant cities in turn at the end of the evolution, stand empty, harbouring in their stone masses a small population of fellaheen who shelter in them as the men of the Stone Age sheltered in caves and pile-dwellings. Samarra was abndoned by the tenth century; Pataliputra, Asoka’s capital, was an immense and completely uninhabited waste of houses when the Chinese traveller Hsuan Tsang visited it about A.D. 635, and many of the great Maya cities must have been in that condition even in Cortez’s time. In a long series of Classical writers from Polybius onward we read of old, renowned cities in which the streets have become lines of empty, crumbling shells, where the cattle browse in forum and gymnasium, and the amphitheatre is a sown field, dotted with emergent statues and hermae. Rome had in the fifth century of our era the population of a village, but its Imperial palaces were still habitable.”

      Ducunt Fata volentem, nolentem trahunt!

      Oswald Spengler

  16. *** Completely off topic; A little help please.

    I have a couple of questions for the group here, especially those with medical knowledge.

    Situation: 10 people in a room and 9 of then are vaccinated against disease X while the other one is not vaccinated.

    Q1: How can the non-vaccinated fellow pose a danger to any of the 9 who are protected from disease X via their vaccination?

    Q2: If the answer to Q1 is that he can not pose a danger to others, then what is the possible rationale for any vaccine being mandatory?

    • called free riders. its safe as long as there are just a few. at critical mass then enuf substrate for virus to spread. also mutate. I’m a nut but beliieve wise to vaccinate your kids. Read about polio for motivation.

    • A significant percentage (~10% with measles, for example), do not develop effective immunity post-immunization. Doesn’t matter under normal circumstances, because herd immunity does not require 100% immunity to be effective. But people begin to free ride by not getting immunized while still being protected from their bad decisions because of the herd immunity of others. At some point, you drop below a critical level based on the contagiousness of the virus and the disease rips through the population. Normally, I’d be blasse about non-immunizers getting their just rewards, but the problem is it’s just as likely to be my kid that dies as an immunized but nonreactive as the dipshits that caused the problem in the first place.

      **”In one study including 232 cases of measles in California between 2000 and 2015, 13 individuals (11 percent) had received ≥2 doses of measles vaccine”

      • I take it you think all humanity died off due to virus a million years ago or so because there were no vaccines. And to imagine, my parents forced me to get 3 (yes, only 3) vaccinations in the late 50s to enter school (so I was 5 or 6). Other than those 3 I have never been vaccinated. Yet, somehow with plenty of sun, vitamins, minerals, and good food here I am.

        Damned if real immunity from your immune system detecting wild virus doesn’t work just fine.

        And I am going to die soon — from an electrical problem in the heart. Afib. Ironic since I have not had a cold or flu in many decades, but I will move on to the next life anyway.

        Make sure your boy keeps his immune system up to snuff. And vaccines are immunosuppressive unfortunately.

        • Did ablasions not work for you Brother…One Brother had to do it 3 times for it to hold…

    • I agree, in principle at least, that anyone (adult) should be able to vax or not, as they see fit. In my opinion the situation is far less clear when dealing with minors or broader public health issues. For example, it is “right” for a vaccine to be mandatory if it can be shown to be of great benefit to most, even if it cause problems for a tiny minority IF the overall result would be much worse for all, if no vaccine were used.

      • Ben, the problem quickly becomes “how much can society demand from a “free” individual before he becomes “unfree””. If that sounds too Randian, tough.

        In the case of vaccinations, last I heard there were over 3 or 4 dozen which were recommended or required. Some of which are for prevention of “voluntary” disease like Hep C and HPV. Who decides what is good for society? Homos and cat ladies? CDC bureaucrats like Fauci—who has single handedly destroyed our economy—and promotes heavy doses of vaccinations on children *before* 6 months old (better to insure they take)?

        • Compsci that’s what a lot of people miss when they bring up things like vaccinations , abortions etc is the government has created the problems and then want us to fight amongst ourselves about their solutions…

        • Compsci – The sheer # of vacs US doctors now push (and, as you noted, for tiny infants) is staggering – but no mention that half the things being vaccinated for are a result of mass immigration from the third world. Modern Europeans were not dying en mass from childhood diseases in the ’80s and ’90s, but the # of vacs they require is a fraction of those here.

      • These numerous vaccines keep a child’s immune system from developing naturally. We have yet to see all the repercussions of that. And the medical establishment will be loathe to acknowledge them.

  17. So far in this thread no one has even mentioned the possibility that the hold of gynocracy and “antiquarian” politics will be broken by a spiritual resurgence. The belief systems, on this site and in mainstream politics, are largely materialistic. They boil down to a remix of economics and of who/whom relationships.

    But shuffling the deck of historical, ideological, and techno solutions brings no fundamental change in values or in individuals’ relationship to the mysteries of life. It’s essentially a “horizontal” change, and while some aspects of it might be improvements, those are nothing compared to a change of consciousness opening people to “vertical” realities that lift them out of the endlessly repetitive shifts of power games.

    Toynbee’s study of history concluded that true civilizational revival happens only in the context of spiritual turnover. That is valid no less for us at our moment than in the past. Many are seeking, even if unconsciously, for a higher meaning than shifting the deck chairs. That they don’t find it in contemporary politics, including alternative politics, drives them into despair and standard grasping for resets of power relationships.

    “I beheld a new Heaven and a new Earth, for the old Heaven and the old Earth had passed away.”

    • GD, I’m with you on the need for a spiritual dimension to our society but the particulars are always a huge trap for Us – massive in-fighting ensues whenever the S or R words come out.

      Z’s hit the concept of Wokeness as a religion pretty hard (for a Lefty look see McWhorter’s “Our Flawed New Religion” piece that’s often mentioned here). In the end, it may serve as a placeholder for religion in the damaged psyche of Moderns, but it’s no more the kind of spirituality Toynbee was referencing than Cucktianity or Bergoglian Catholicism is today.

      We’re at least 200 years overdue for a revitalization of Western spirituality. If you have any viable suggestions, I’m all ears.

  18. “ That’s why both sides were hoping the virus panic would destroy the economy and usher in a great depression. The Right-side imagines people taking wheelbarrows full of cash to buy food. The Left side imagines working men being entertained by folk singers after they hear a speech by the local communist cadre. There is the assumption that if the whole liberal democratic order fails, we just rewind the clock and begin the process over again, but this time with a different result.”

    This describes the TRS guys and Antifa to a T.

  19. Both the “left” and the “right” are correct in some ways.

    The “left” is generally correct about economics, class dynamics, income inequality, outsourcing, etc.
    The “right” is correct about the ethnic component, the dangers of mass immigration, feminism, and multiculturalism.

    Sadly these two groups are the ones at each other’s throats. Wonder why?

    National Socialism is the fusion of the two ideas. The “right” needs to accept ‘leftist’ economics and the “left” needs to accept ethnic nationalism and out group dynamics. NS is the only way to transcend the Globohomo forces. It happened in Germany, and it’s happening in China right now.

    Since National Socialism works, it’s forbidden and the two groups of disgruntled young white men are kept divided and apart.

  20. A nice post Z, thanks. It reminds me of how far from the mainstream I am. I live in an Empire and empires are always tyrannical and capricious. One leftist war correspondent years ago claimed that war always made people insane and that the US had always been at war. The people have lost their minds, if they every had one.

    I have been told you can not win by simply being against something, you had to offer something to replace it. You had to have something to be for. I could be way wrong but I just don’t see much here telling us what to be for.

    A long time ago, I could no see David Duke as way outside the mainstream; only too honest for his own good perhaps. Certainly the left came down on him as if he were the first cousin of A. Hitler. To damaged to lead a wining coalition? Oh hell yes, but that is a big part of the problem. We are to pussyfied to tell it like it is.

    So, Z, tell me what part of this short essay you would disagree with other than it being from 1992 and the examples and language a bit dated.

    NOTE: I think you left out a “not” in “…This does mean stuff stopped happening …”

    ~ Mark

    • I clicked on the link, but my anti-virus software blocked the site, claiming it contained libertarianisms.

      • Funny; it really was. But it was mistaken, well, unless anarcho-capitallism is listed as “libertarianism” these days.

  21. When we finally begin to teach ALL our children to stand up and shoulder their own responsibilities under our still-new, republican system, then there will be no frivolous talk of dead ends. Just like every oak tree is not a dead end because it only makes more oak trees, we will understand that every new family is a tiny new community, which also has responsibilities to uphold among others in the neighborhood. As Goethe said, “If only everyone swept his own front steps, the entire world would be clean.”

    “About the Declaration there is a finality that is exceedingly restful. It is often asserted that the world has made a great deal of progress since 1776, that we have had new thoughts and new experiences which have given us a great advance over the people of that day, and that we may therefore very well discard their conclusions for something more modern. But that reasoning can not be applied to this great charter. If all men are created equal, that is final. If they are endowed with inalienable rights, that is final. If governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed, that is final. No advance, no progress can be made beyond these propositions. If anyone wishes to deny their truth or their soundness, the only direction in which he can proceed historically is not forward, but backward toward the time when there was no equality, no rights of the individual, no rule of the people. Those who wish to proceed in that direction can not lay claim to progress. They are reactionary. Their ideas are not more modern, but more ancient, than those of the Revolutionary fathers.”
    – Calvin Coolidge, July 5th, 1926

    Grand political projects beyond instituting and perfecting our Founder’s vision will not be necessary for the next few hundred years at least. Let’s get (back) to it.

    • If those families don’t bind together with other families that are the same to be forming clans and then tribes they will be wiped out by the “others” who are doing that…

    • “When we finally begin to teach ALL our children to stand up and shoulder their own responsibilities under our still-new, republican system, then there will be no frivolous talk of dead ends.”

      Some populations shoulder responsibilities better than others. One of the main reasons that we are where we are now is because we didn’t understand this.

      Reject universalism and to the extent that the “Founder’s vision” was universalist, reject that too.

    • Since all men are not created equal, and never will be equal, that ‘charter’ was founded upon a false premise (rhetorical flourish or not). I generally like Coolidge, but do not find this quote particularly inspiring or relevant. The “Revolutionary fathers” were a microcosm of the Enlightenment revolt against hierarchy. They’ve been proven wrong.

    • If all men are created equal, that is final. If they are endowed with inalienable rights, that is final. If governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed, that is final.

      Doesn’t fucking matter if it’s “final.” It matters if it’s true, and how it is applied. Three years and some months later, the nation was destroyed. The hubris of that bastard. Progress? Toward what? A cliff? Progress is meaningless unless you know the object towards which it is progressing.

    • I accept the label reactionary to some degree. But not as the TRS or TradCath folks do. Post Enlightenment will involve some form of evolved old idea(s) , as all things do, as there is truly nothing new under the sun.

    • There are eternal truths to rewind to. Human nature and the inevitability of its strengths and weaknesses are eternal, as are the laws of physics as applied to them.

      • Yes, WATV, there are eternal truths based upon “human nature and the inevitability of its strengths and weaknesses” (aka “biology”). But Zman’s point (I think) is that today isn’t yesterday, and neither will be tomorrow. So don’t think “rewind.” There’s something for today—and tomorrow—that will work. Our mission, should we choose to accept it, is to find out what it is and point it out.

      • I’ve heard the sound bite “There’s something wrong with human nature.” (MLK maybe?) I agree with you Where, and dissect the above quote as being erroneous: Human nature is an emergent property of Nature having created humans. Nature doesn’t care about right or wrong, good or bad. Not by human standards, anyway. Seems to me the best progress would be to accept Nature’s (and human nature’s) limitations, and work within that framework. But that’d be anathema to Utopians of any stripe.

    • Well, this shit show is winding down, and all we have to look at is the past, so it’s natural that all kinds of groups spring up that believe those things at the end of an epoch. I believe that the Libertarians will finally get their fantasies, with a breakdown in governments, as a bankrupt government can’t pay enough people to project state power to the individual level. But it’ll look more like 1995 Russia. The libertarians will realize that thugs do better than Libertarians in that environment, as they’re mugged in open daylight…”but that’s my property.”…It was your property.

      • The libertarians will realize that thugs do better than Libertarians in that environment, as they’re mugged in open daylight…”but that’s my property.”…It was your property.
        Isn’t that the truth Brother… Instead of making sure its their warlord in power they will instead be picked off one by one…

  22. Interesting update on fringe politics. This really is an update for me, as I have had no contact with any of this stuff, even close enough to observe from the peanut gallery, for about 20 years now. The most interesting aspect of thezman’s report of what this stuff looks like today is that it is by and large all male. It didn’t used to be that way, at least right up until approximately 20 years ago. I have no idea when the transformation occurred, or if it did so gradually (most likely would be my guess).

    I entirely agree this is a knock-on consequence of the ever expanding gynocracy, which is both expanding in the scope of its presence within the entire social sphere and of course expanding in total power and influence. These fringe groups do draw from those individuals first and foremost frustrated and dissatisfied with their own lives, and then from there frustrated and dissatisfied with the current order. A current order that is gynocracy is going to result in men interested in the sort of fringe politics discussed in this essay, while it rarely if ever will in women being interested.

    The current order is gynocracy, or at least gynocracy is now a major component of it (along with the Wall Street banks, the other major rackets, etc.). As a necessary result, gynocracy is a major driver behind the “pandemic” (that does not really exist), and this in turn was/is absolutely inevitable as a “pandemic” is a perfect, made-to-order “emergency” or “danger” that schoolmarms and harpies everywhere instinctively demand “protection” from.

    When following, analyzing, and commenting on the “pandemic” most of us tend to focus on the WHO, CDC, etc. and all their phony “data” as well as focus on the governmental politics of it (international as well as national). What gets lost is just how much of this entire freak show “pandemic” drama has been and still is driven by gynocracy, the schoolmarm impulse, which today is enfranchised with an enormous amount of political power. This only goes to show how divorced from rationality, and from actual reality itself, gynocracy really is, and most importantly how much real damage and suffering gynocracy causes when entrenched and given power and sway.

    While the “pandemic” itself is a hysterical panic of the type associated with the dark and middle ages that nonetheless has manifested now and overwhelmed society as a whole, the damage its social manifestation has done and continues to do is very real. Untold millions of people have been made to suffer by it, with “it” being an entirely irrational mass panic and not any virus. Unfortunately, these untold millions will continue to suffer it, no doubt joined by untold millions more before this nonsense finished playing out. Thanks feminism. Thanks gynocracy. Thanks a whole f*!king lot.

  23. Good post Mr. Z. One thing that comes to mind is that Fukuyama’s narrative is a subset of the grand narrative of Progress that assumed that there was a linear destination for our society and that the destination would be some kind of transcendent heaven on earth. The religion of Progress died a well deserved death on the battlefields of the 20th Century; it’s premise, the perfectability of human beings, was demonstratively false. Since then we have seen an attempt to revive the dead ideals of Progress when a better, more realistic, approach would be to mourn it’s passing and get on with crafting a more realistic narrative about our predicament. I am partial to the cyclical narratives of Oswald Spengler and Arnold Toynbee. Based on their models, the outcome of current intellectual and social anarchy will be a dictatorship under a charismatic saviour leader. People will look back at the regime of D. J. Trump with nostalgia since an effective dictator will impose harsh social discipline. Kiss you liberties good bye.

    • I would wager Fukuyama wishes he’d never written those words, he’s been credibly taken apart so many times. Given human nature, I thought they were blitheringly starry-eyed the first time I ever read them.

      • That book came out in 1992. The finishing touches were being put on the shiny new corporate globalism. The corporate HR offices were being stuffed with ever more cat ladies. Starbucks only had a few stores. Frozen yogurt was considered healthy. The Matrix hadn’t started flickering at that point. Liberal democracy is just too expensive to operate over a long term. It’s the most expensive version of oligarchy. I’m sure a book came out around 1762 that basically said, we’ve arrived, all problems will be solved rationally as we slowly walk through symmetrical gardens.

      • You’re better than me, BD. I confess to being taken in by Fukuyama’s thesis all those years ago.

    • Fukyuama, however, did not envision a utopian telos. What he saw was “men without chests.” Men chained to trees like dogs in the noonday sun, having their basic needs handled by a liberal democratic state. To mix the metaphor even further, we would become a race of eggplants. In other words, Fukuyama’s notion of “progress” was not as sanguine as one might, prima facie, think.

  24. >Another angle to this neo-revanchism is a new romanticism among younger white males for a return to a what they imagine was a more honorable and possibly heroic way of living as political actors.

    you make it sound like this is a bad thing. why can’t people hope for and aspire to something better than the status quo. It’s not just about choosing between Nazism or Marxism. What is wrong with wanting to rule , as opposed to being a slave or a victim.

    • I don’t think you understand the point I’m making. To aspire to something better than the status quo is to look forward, not backward. These guys look back to a romanticized version of the past. There’s a word I like, “Hauntology” that I’ve used before in describing this phenomenon. They are nostalgic for a future that has been denied them.

      • While I fully agree that you can’t go home again–so to speak–I also think that there are wonderful things from the Western past that we can reclaim for present use, in modified form. No need to turn our backs on our heritage and traditions while fashioning a fetish of the future.

  25. Both sides believe in MMT and UBI. So in reality both believe in wheelbarrows full of money, or at least a WIC card serving as a digital wheelbarrow. They may not know it. We’ve decided as a country to go down the MMT-light path anyway, so we may as well just hit the accelerator and bring this to its sad end. The only thing they argue about is how the free goods are divvied up. If you said the words “purchasing power” to them, which can’t be printed or credited, only divided among smaller and smaller units, they would stare blankly and then say something inane. One thing I’ve noticed about the TDS people, is that they appear to have this Woody Allen like neuroticism on this virus. It’s quite Jewish. The first people to start purelling themselves years ago were Jews, just like they put on sun screen to walk outside for more than a minute. There’s something very cucky about grown men with masks on, standing on little squares on the floor at the grocery store, and then wiping themselves down. To think this country once had pioneers on the Oregon trail, keeling over left and right while stoically continuing their long journey. Now we’re buying Kale in hazmat suits.

    • Ask the Donner Party what’s for dinner. 😀 I’ll take comfy civilization as long as it lasts, thanks.

    • JR Wirth: “There’s something very cucky about grown men with masks on, standing on little squares on the floor at the grocery store, and then wiping themselves down.” This x100000000. I loathe the gynocracy as much as any, but it didn’t occur in a vacuum. Men allowed it to happen, and men are going to have to end it, one way or another, or it will end them.

        • Stores in my area put up signs over the weekend asking/demanding that you wear a mask, but I saw no attempts to enforce it, despite less than complete adherence.

        • Then move the best time would be now when you are already laid off and can start anew somewhere else…I don’t know why people stay in a shitty place when they still have options…

    • What’s more Juicy – the Hollywitz myth of rugged frontier individualism (when the West was settled by families and communities, not individuals) or using MMT to Cloward-Piven Big Other for White advantage?

      Self-sufficiency has its role but it’s mostly used today as a giant carpetbag for smuggling tactically libertarian Talmudry like “muh Oregon Trail” into White communities with collective solidarity and purpose.

  26. “[T]he reason for so much interest and energy in fringe politics in general is that mainstream politics is almost completely feminine now. Both sides of the liberal democratic order are dominated by harpies and schoolmarms. There’s simply no place for a normal male in conventional politics,”

    It’s the truth of this statement that is my blackest of black pills. Women’s involvement in politics and the formation of public policy has been catastrophic. But, as the Z-man has noted, women are good at modern politics because so much of it revolves around attracting attention to oneself, something at which women excel.

    Even women’s large-scale participation in the labor force has enormously disrupted the social order. But, aside from the acceptance of a new patriarchal religion or total societal collapse, I see no way out this situation. Arguing for even a limited franchise for women, or that men should be given preference in the work force makes race realism seem mainstream.

  27. Our present economic system is based on the government printing trillions of dollars a year and “lending” them to itself. When those dollars become worthless, there is little productive activity left to tax, so all governments dissolve and America becomes a tribal society like Pakistan.

    That solves the woman problem, the Jew problem, and the ni**er problem in one fell swoop, at the cost of living in a desperately overpopulated low-tech low-trust tribal shit-hole.

    Things will fester like this for a few centuries until a new Rome arises, beats everyone else into submission, and builds a space-faring civilization. That should spread humanity out enough that subsequent collapses are local affairs.

  28. Left, anti-Fascist. Right, Fascist. I will drop to my knees, hands clasped in thanksgiving, when the amateurs drop this false dichotomy and it is dead and buried. It has been exploited to to the elites’ and commies’ ends for far too long, with The Herd lapping up every word.

    Fascism and communism, or the totalitarian socialism that passes for communism until the big permanent economic love-in at the commune (from each, to each), both belong at the left/totalitarian end of the spectrum. What we have now is the corporatist/leftist synthesis that represents this. Anarchy is over at the other end.

    • I don’t like most labels either, but it’s all we have. I do like Hunter Wallace’s labels: progressive liberal / conservative liberal, which is the prevailing dichotomy. For those that are neither, it’s some flavor of nationalism or anarchy.

      • I don’t mind labels. It’s their misuse that troubles me.

        I agree for the most part with Wallace’s conclusions. But as an alternative to nationalism or anarchy there is the old tired tried and true collectivism with a Stalinist totalitarian bent. And then there’s a feminized, emotional, keep-me-safe-Mr.-Unicorn (their version of longing for male protection and companionship) kind of communism. Most of the proponents of either don’t believe they will ever feel the ice ax to the skull, or the psychological equivalent thereof, which is their stupidity on parade.

        • I get Z’s point, but for most of my life the people who made a point that they didn’t like labels were people who simply didn’t want people to call them what they were, which invariably was a lefty.

    • Nailed it! Fascism/Communism have been/always will be two sides of the same coin: both totalitarian, both Statist. It’s amazing how many people think Nazism was “right wing”; under Comminism the State owns the means of production, under fascism the State dictates the means of production while leaving industry nominally in private hands.

      Look @ China; they’re Communist in name only. They morphed from Communism into Fascism within a time frame of about 20yrs. The “far right” are total anarchists.

      • Boar, “Right” and “Left” are pretty incoherent nowadays but no one more based than D’Souza thinks the “far Right” are anarchists.

        The question is for whose “common good” is society organized and operated?

        Liberalism says “the individual.”

        Anti-Liberalism (there used to be a C-word for this but it’s been ruined) says “the family, tribe and community.”

  29. Nobody asked, by my political philosophy right now–and it’s subject to change–incorporates secession, race realism, aesthetics, circumscribed democracy and regulated capitalism.

    I believe the vast majority of nation-states are too diverse and unwieldy to adequately address the concerns of most citizens, and that, in attempts to do so, they become autocratic, if not tyrannical. Small nation-states, or even city-states, are preferable.

    These very small polities should cohere around a homogeneous race or ethnicity. Diversity is the engine of conflict and discord, and it should be discarded in favor of genetic monoliths.

    Regarding aesthetics, I firmly believe beautiful societies are much more pleasant places in which to live than are ugly societies. America, which, in its egalitarianism, capitalism-driven dispersion of wealth to people with no taste, and relativistic rejection of beauty and high culture, is now a coarse, ugly place. This is unacceptable.

    Capitalism, in one form or another, is clearly the best economic system yet tried. However, unbridled capitalism destroys beneficent traditions, the social fabric of society, and beauty. For this reason, it must be reined in. I think Trump is on the right path here.

    And, as for democracy, well, obviously, the franchise is far too broad. We have too many idiots and worthless scoundrels voting. The franchise should be constrained by some combination of wealth, intelligence, age, and lawfulness.

    • Ostei said, “my political philosophy…incorporates secession, race realism, aesthetics, circumscribed democracy and regulated capitalism.” All those can be subsumed under “circumscribed democracy.” Someone is going to aggregate and wield power (biology again); if you come up with a reasonable form of limited democracy you’ve got a good chance of avoiding the ugly reality of Lord Acton’s dictum.

    • You are describing the Swiss federalist system. The most important level of government and the one with the power to tax and grant citizenship is the county. We might want to re-think breaking things up back into the old design–states being the first power, because the states are too far gone down the Beltway road. Counties will do, with the power of citizens to vote themselves out of a county as well just as Sandy Springs county was carved out of Fulton county in 1975, and very glad they did. Many of our problems will no longer exist, although if suffrage is not addressed they will return. The Swiss gradually began allowing females to vote in 1972. Their slide is noticable now. Intolerance was a Swiss virtue, now not so much.

      • Me too please.
        BTW – ‘secession, race realism, aesthetics, circumscribed democracy regulated capitalism’ as a party name is a bit unwieldy. Needs something slightly more…captivating.

        • 5PT is pretty clinical too. Essentially we’re all talking about a system rooted not in the individual but in the family and tribe – whether the scope of Tribe puts race or ethnicity first is a side-issue.

          “Folkish” works to an extent but it has little name-recognition at this point.


  30. Any movement that attracts white men in any serious numbers will eventually attract the attention of the harpies and Karens who will then use the courts and MSM to smash said grouping of white men.

    People don’t get it, the current system is designed to crush freedom of expression by the white majority. It’s why the Alt-Right was smashed into the ground if it wasn’t C’ville it would have been something else cooked up by the FBI. And why the DR will remain irrelevant,not that they are trying to be relevant among alienated whites to begin with.

  31. Kojeve/Fukuyama/YouTube Shitshows are all a continuation of what came out of the enlightenment and the industrial revolution. Man the herd animal and community builder became man the individualist and materialists. In order to serve material ends communities had to be taken apart and remade in service to this new end. Various forms of the liberal order are what has resulted in this reordering. The old order was the result of eons of bio-social evolution. The liberal order was the result of one after another of rationalizing systematic excuses in the pursuit of mammon. The flotsam and jetsam of the old order still permeates here and there so the road to material utopia has a number of forks in it even though they lead to the same end. So we have all of these seemingly disparate new communities at odds with each other.

    Man despite his certainty that he reasons himself through the trials and tribulations of life remains a product of nature and in all his manifestations is subject to the laws of nature. We are not ethereal minds that chart our course free from nature’s forces and constrictions. Man has shown himself to be just smart enough to make a muddle of nature’s gifts.

    We are what we became because nature fashioned us in a certain way and it is what allowed us to survive and flourish. We are at the end not of history but of the materialist age. There are no more reasonable excuses to keep it all going. Western liberalism is the last dead end. The only thing left is for what’s left to crater and crater it must. At least enough so that a new foundation is needed upon which to begin rebuilding. It will not be liberal or progressive or conservative. But it will at least structurally resemble the old order in that it will build out from blood and soil communities.

    Pursuing a solution in yet another ideological talisman is to pursue a pot of fool’s gold at the end of a rainbow that never touches ground. Man is a simple creature. We grope for guiding complexities when the answers are obvious and simple. The only path is to return to the natural structure under which we actually did manage to lay the foundations of civilization. A shared biology and a shared culture.

    • @YV
      This is why I’ve always enjoyed your comments that was well said and you would be a welcomed asset in my Community…

    • At some point the old order really did have problems keeping up. Biologically, they were in many cases moving backward. This is no secret. In an age of exploration and great adventures–geographical, mechanical, and scientific, there would be great change and the old order may have been ill prepared to guide it. That the new order was worse is no recommendation of the old order. We find ourselves stuck back at the same place.

    • I’ll echo Lineman here, YY – you have a folkish sensibility and an understanding of the deeper, sub-political roots of Our Thing. You understand hygge and what it takes to allow hygge to exist and flourish. Unlike many who’ve run for Lady Liberty’s apron-strings in her moment of recent distress, you understand how far we have yet to go and how lonely that journey is going to be in terms of “countrymen” left behind. Lonely – but not alone. Some of us are here with and for you and yours.

  32. Based upon your essay, Z, it sounds like there is no good option. The status quo is gynocracy, with the alternatives communism and fascism. If this is the end of history, what was the point of the journey?

    • I disagree. I think the problem with the current age is that everyone has been convinced that the options are the status quo and some weird role playing of the past. What comes next will be post-Enlightenment.

      • Do you have any idea what you think post-Enlightment will look like? Sounds vaguely atavistic to me.

          • That’s going to be a very damned interesting book. I will buy it instantly when it comes out. If this blog is any indication, it could be very, very important. Very.

          • Free Press published Fukuyama’s book back in 1992. If they’re still around maybe the Zman book would be a chance at a do over.

          • I read that as he was in bed dying Adam Smith directed his servant to destroy every paper he had written about how his ideas in Wealth of Nations could or should be applied, and that his was a wise decision. To prepare a people for a thing is a great task in itself, but the execution depends on events and the individuals who emerge. A playbook would be great.

      • I like your comment about, “…some weird role-playing of the past.”

        Online, one can see this phenomenon at the /OldSchoolCool and /theWayWeWere subreddits.

        It’s incredible to witness the open goodwhite longing for the American past while realizing they are mentally incapable of processing the number one reason that past existed.

    • The only good option left is national anarchism. That is the endgame for those who don’t subscribe to the alt-right, the Antifa left, the Groyper right, or the mainstream. Am I wrong?

      • I have trouble envisioning sustainable anarchy. It sounds to me like a primordial political stew from which we no not what will emerge. Now, that said, I myself experience certain anarchical impulses from time to time.

      • Yes Marko, you’re wrong. Anarchy cannot work because it confronts biology head-on. Always bet on biology.

    • I don’t see American society/nation at any end of history. It will proceed forward, the only uncertainty being how so and of what quality. It is the alternatives that most, the overwhelming majority really, can only conceive of (communism, fascism, etc.) that are at the end of their histories. These “alternatives” are already dead and gone, dead men walking so to speak. The fascinating yet frustrating thing is that how few can yet see this.

      The crucial thing or perhaps one of a few crucial things, in my opinion, going forward is freedom of association. Our test as a society, a people, a nation is to come out the other side with the real thing in place. We’ve done this with religion, being a society, people, and nation (even though in colonial times) that housed the Salem Witch Trials (yes, this really happened) and yet came out with freedom of religion that by and large is essentially the real thing. No reason we can’t do the same with association. Neither segregation nor integration (along any dimension — not merely race) at gunpoint by uninformed jackboots of any stripe is consistent with real freedom of association, with the genuine article.

      Individuals must be each free to figure this out for themselves and associate (in all ways) as they see fit, without interference. What a concept! We’ve never yet in our entire history actually gotten this right. We need to, badly, in order to have a positive move forward out of our present impasse, rather than something horrific.

      This is opinion, which I acknowledge.

      • In other words, natural law. Its wisdom and fairness, its creation of a haven for an organic European DNA thriving, cannot be outrun – although the out-of-control feminine cohort will always try to squash it.

        • although the out-of-control feminine cohort will always try to squash it.
          Which is why “Islam is right about women” has an appeal for our side…

  33. I don’t know if it’s been mentioned but Drudge really has gone off the chart with his CDS. He is all in on this end of the world stuff.

    • I think Drudge sold Drudge and as part of the agreement, to preserve the value of the site, that fact has not been made public.

      Or else he has done a David Stockman and gone over to the Dark Side.

    • that is why his site is so popular because he keeps everyone guessing and is not beholden to any one side, it was just Trump cheerleading, it would not be as authoritative and popular as it is. People go to Drugde because they want to be surprised by what the big headline is, not because they want their political beliefs affirmed.

    • Have you noticed how often Drudges’s site highlights tranies and exorcisms?

      That site is an example of how once you have a monopoly you can promote your own personal predilections and no competitor can challenge you.

      Like the movie industry constantly pushing degenerate movies when most people want to see variations on the original Star Wars and Little House on the Prairie.

      When I was a conservative, I was so blind to the power of monopoly.

      • You an I have talked about the next step after that and that is making it our Monopoly for our people… When enough people come to that conclusion is when we will see change…

      • This is the thing that I find most frustrating about other people, their complacency. I know for a fact they find serious fault with what they are presented, I’ve talked to many people about it. But most just keep guzzling it down regardless. In my darker moments I imagine pigs eating whatever slop the farmers dump into their troughs. We need to go back to being wolves. A rebirth of asceticism would do a world of good for our people. And that attitude might soon become manifest by sheer necessity depending on how bad the economic damage is.

        • In a disgusting world, within a people with a strong disgust response, asceticism may become very compelling.

          The almost religious urge to decisively be free of the filth.

          That’s what I feel when I see a young boy shaking his ass at a drag queen story hour.

  34. You mischaracterize the TRS position, such as it is, without naming them, and draw a false equivalence between one thing you don’t like and something else you don’t like. Talk about crabs in a bucket…

    Race and the JQ as a fig leaf? I don’t believe you believe that.

    Their audience is composed of younger people who got hit twice with big crises in the economy before, and not after, they were established participants in it. So their real target audience is the Bernie Bros and their younger brothers.

    They hype MMT and the social welfare policies of midcentury fascist states to deconstruct the notion that everyone to the right of Ralph Nader is named Russell Kirk. If nothing else, it is a useful historical corrective.

    This emphasis on economics is mostly Striker’s influence. Striker should probably be kept on a short leash in a basement somewhere, but he has at least got TRS casting their line where the fish are.

    Yes, by linking all this explicitly to National Socialism or Fascism TRS are undercutting themselves. But are their calls for an authoritarian response to the current situation really all that different from your own musings about a Sulla-type figure?

    • You’re right, but I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. And, “crabs in a bucket” does not mean what you think it means.

      • Especially to Zman, who lives near the Chesapeake Bay. When he hears “crabs in a bucket,” he immediately puts newspapers on the dinner table and gets out a huge pot, Old Bay seasoning and wooden mallets. 🙂

        BTW, you note he doesn’t post much on Saturdays. Do you think he may be one of ((them)) ? 😀

        • How droll. Zman has said that he was raised Catholic but no longer attends Mass. Nevertheless, particularly to other Catholics, the Catholic sensabilities of his upbringing are readily apparent and can in no way be confused with those of (((others))). Long time readers will also confirm that Sunday postings are much rarer than Saturday’s, perhaps for no better reason than he, like everyone, deserves a day of rest.

      • The McFeels character is so angry. He’s unhinged. The giggling they both engage in makes it even more painful. Intense anger and ridicule in the pursuit of proving that you are right 100% of the time is an ugly look.

        My theory for their end of times gimmick is simply that they want so very badly to be on some kind of gold plated welfare for 40 year old white guys. The entire TRS team have no skills with which to earn a living. I’m sure there are exceptions. But generally they are ne’er do wells, losers in the career game and they want “the bag”.

  35. A most fundalmental problem with the present system is that it is dysgenic. The low Iq/degenerate culture is outbreeding the rest. Seemingly impatient with the slow pace of the resulting dimunition of our society they are flooding high IQ pleasant countries with the worlds dullest and most fecund populations. A few minor adjustments and the trend could be reversed. Policies to encourage smart people to have babies and ijmplantable birth control as a requirement for the dole. But our elites liike a population with a large cognitive gap. Easier to play against itself. I hate the fuckers with the intensity of a 1000 suns.

  36. Real change will occur when finally enough people are faced with the screeching and hectoring from the usual suspects and turn round and smack them in the mouth.

    Males traditionally had a degree of violence underneath confrontations between each other, which also counter-intuitively in the west became a limit on extreme behavior without requiring it to be settled by always appealing to authority. The removal of this in itself leads to the escalating need for more authority in many forms to act as the enforcement as women and others entered each new area. We are coming to the fruition of this now.

    Absence this restricting factor the screeching has no limiting factor and will continue escalating and the authority will expand to focus on smaller and smaller conflict areas until the man leaves the area just to get away from it.

    These people think they are projecting their power when in reality they can’t even see that men voluntarily witholding violence due to societal norms that arose alongside liberal democracy is the only reason they are able to act in this way.

    If this attitude changes the whole shape of public dominance reverts real quick.

    • Males with the talent to lead and the energy to see it through are spotted early on by Big Estrogen in the schools. It’s like an evil NFL draft. And the parents are called in to be pressured to put the little boys on Ritalin or Adderall. And given that the kid has been cutting into computer time and Real Housewives time, the parents think, wow, it would be so cool not to have to stay on top of his hi jinks at night when I’m worn out from work. And thus the trip to the pharmacist. This sets the little boy up to think there is something wrong with normal male behavior. So some end up in Mama’s basement, and others end up on meth, a male rebellion against the prescribed amount of the drug – a way to take some male initiative by self-medicating when he wants to. This is the channel into which much of our young men’s quest for indpendence is being herded, when instead they should be advancing our economy and raising Ritalin-free families.

      By the way, where is our busybody Congress on this subject? Counting the campaign donations from Big Pharma, I suspect.

      • Kids being put on an neurotoxic chemical — sometimes in excess of 60mg per day — is child abuse. I still battle with feelings of emptiness and brain fog from the trauma of those days.

      • Don’t forget the misinformation they spread about stimulants, either. Here’s a good one: “Adderall has a ‘calming’ effect on ADD kids because it modulates their neurochemical imbalances.”

        That’s nonsense. Stimulants (barring rare paradoxical reactions) do the same thing to everyone: stimulate. ADD or not, they act as DRI’s and dopamine agonists. Hyperfocus, elevated heart rate, increased body temperature, decreased reaction time, cardiovascular degradation and curtailed REM are hardly indications that stimulants are calming.

        I think that stimulants don’t get enough negative attention, and that’s not just because they nearly rendered me a junkie. They can induce semi-permanent structural changes in areas of the brain that regulate task salience, delayed gratification, and cortisol production. In short: they make ADD worse. “But that’s okay,” the doctor says. “We’ll just increase his dose.”

        Also, Adderall augments intellectual intensity at the expense of scope. It might improve a kid’s grades in the short term, but after habitual use, it hinders divergent thinking. Combine that with portable screens of pixelated light that *already* encourage self-hypnosis, and we’re breeding a nation of zombies.

        • Lawdog, I am so sorry you were put through that. Many of my young criminal clients were like you, highly intelligent young boys who were put on that stuff by the vicious women running our schools and the intimidated parents. When I would find out that these young men were on meth because their parents had put them on Ritalin, I would tell them that there was nothing wrong with them, and that some very misguided people made some terrible decisions that had brought them to this point in their lives. I even held one young man in my arms as he cried and told me no one had ever told him that before, and that he was so relieved. He had thought he was defective.

          Nothing, nothing, makes me angrier than what is happening to the boys in this country vis-à-vis pharmaceuticals. That’s why I harp on it in this comments section.

          • They hate us and want us dead or the very least enslaved…If anyone still has kids in the public schools they need to get them out before the poor kids minds and souls are completely ruined…

    • Disappointing though it may be in practice, most people like the idea of a government to provide courts, impartial (“in theory”) justice, etc. In general, common law is ok: I would rather have a jury, or even just a judge, decide a case rather than “trial by battle!” It’s hard to believe that really was done, once upon a time.

      • I am not talking about courts, nor trial by battle.

        I am talking about the previous rub along between men in many work,social,political situations, often with undercurrents of personal confrontation if necessary as a part of the discussion that produced a relatively stable hierarchy society. As massive overstepping of the mark could result in a personal beating, but without the full force of government being involved.

        The loss of this by the arrival of screeching sections of society into areas they were not part and that it is considered bad form to physically chastise has led to an explosion of rules and regulatory bodies, codes of conduct and hectoring precisely because there is no capability of small disagreements to go through the dominance signaling, to “lets step outside” limits that conversely narrowed the permissible limits of behavior.

        The custodial state is inevitable in a feminized society as 3rd party authority will always be needed in even the smallest interactions to establish acceptable behavior absent these things. Hence the virtual prison we have now arrived at.

  37. I’d always thought that the salient difference between the Antifa left and the alt-right was that (to borrow from Ramzpaul) the Antifa left blames whites while the alt-right blames Jews. Furthermore, the Antifa left is race-denying while the alt-right is race-affirming. Otherwise, two sides of the same coin. That’s why those “debates” that pop up look so pathetic: both sides spend nearly all their time in their caves, growling about the outlanders, and when they do engage the other side, it’s on Twitter. When arrangements are finally made for them to talk using their mouth with the opposition also using their mouth, in real-time, the “debate” quickly descends into talking-points grenades being hurled into the maelstrom, hoping one BTFOs the other side. It sounds very much like a freshman dorm debate between assholes. I’m willing to grant that these figures don’t get much practice, especially the alt-right ones. They are deplatformed after all. I do think there are certain alt-right guys that would be able, in time, to share a stage with Jordan Petersen or David Frum, and get that epic BTFO they’ve dreamed of.

    • Maybe. I get a diferent vibe. Antifa seems to be filled with viscious women. The right prefers their women in bikinis, with AR-15s.

    • One of the reasons I always have thought twitter to be at *best* neutral but most likely a big negative for our side. First – I’m convinced that twitter as significantly juiced user numbers, and Second – it’s the ideal place to signal your virtue (on both sides), sh*tpost, or give your ‘hot take’. It is not a place that is good at engaging in persuasion.

      It’s virtually all synthetic and often worse than useless, since they can be trotted out as “examples of evil white supremacy” (conversely, ‘evil antifa socialists’).

      Things like Facebook might be slightly more useful since more folks with skin in the game are still on there.

      The best place for persuasion is talking to your neighbors. Power is not taken via zeroes and ones. So go out and talk to your neighbors. Even just posting Cancel China flyers on public spaces is a start. Real things in real places. There’s a visceral difference. Naturally it has to be done carefully, or you end up with a Spencer.

  38. Faustian Man. I guess you could call it a larp. But other people would call it an ideal.

    Seems like this post is trying to shit on things that our guys find inspiring. Not sure I see the point of that.

    • I myself have a more favorable opinion of Spencer. More than others in the alt-right, he does engage and wants to engage the opposition in good faith.

      • Ted Kaczynski wanted to engage his opposition in good faith. That’s a terribly low standard. Spencer has made it much harder for all of us to engage with anyone, in good faith or bad. As Greg Johnson pointed out, if your plan was to destroy the alt-right, picking Spencer as the leader was brilliant. If he was an honorable man, he would just go away and find something else to fill his days.

        • Any leader that emerges amoung the dissident right will be either character, or corporally-assassinated. Eventually we will have to quit throwing guys overboard. Not saying now is the time to die on the hill but i am curious what candidates are worth backing.

          • Funny, but when I was in high school, people made the same arguments in favor of David Duke. As noted then and now, when someone jumps overboard, it is probably best to let them go.

            Here’s the thing. Politics is about persuasion. You cannot persuade if you are so far outside the main that you are easily dismissed or demonized. Put another way, in order to move the Overton window, you have to be able to reach it.

            Somewhere around the 2016 election, I made the point that all the alt-right people would probably be replaced for one reason or another. The early adopters tend to be more brave than smart. I said that the leaders of whatever comes next for right-wing politics are still in high school. I think we are starting to see that now. The young guys turning up are more savvy about the reality of modern media and how to avoid the old pitfalls and landmines of the Left.

          • Here’s the thing. Politics is about persuasion. You cannot persuade if you are so far outside the main that you are easily dismissed or demonized.
            Lot of truth in that statement and it applies to just more than politics…It’s been amazing to me how many people are turning to me for advice in this event not because I have been ranting about being prepared but because I’ve sat in church with them and have been level headed through this thing…

          • Spencer was good-looking and articulate. The only knock against him, i might be wrong, but he fucks any thing that moves. Its a catch22. No one will fit the bill without being destoyed. Hell, look at derbyshire. Couldn’t find a more reasonable standup guy. Fucking shoahed. I’m sick of it. Z was talking about Duke in high school? Weird kid 🙂

          • DR needs someone who doesn’t care, like Trump. At the end of the day that’s what people like about him. You’re always going to be unpopular at first, but charisma is convincing.

          • Key problem in any human movement is that followers are far more attracted to charisma than they are to facts and competence. As a sexist example, consider that the hostess at the restaurant (remember when we could eat there?) is usually an easy-on-the-eyes young lady; on the ther hand, the Crypt-keeper’s sister works in the back, washing dishes or cooking.

          • Right. The best leaders are charismatic and wise and unfortunately rare. But you never know sometimes history comes up 7s.

        • why does the thought controlled opposition keep cropping up.?

          Its almost like these guys are set up specifically for a purpose.

        • Greg has given Spencer more O2 than anyone at TRS in the past 2+ years. If you guys want him to fade, quit blowing on the embers already.

      • It is a futile and counter-productive task to engage bad faith with good faith. It is very productive to engage good faith with bad faith. That’s why bad faith is on so long a winning streak.

  39. It’s a strange situation we’re in. On one hand, men are politically irrelevant. On the other hand, society is paralyzed, schools are shut down, and hospitals are reportedly empty, showing that women are inessential to the moment. It seems like conditions are trying to tell us something we’re either too dense or too stubborn to hear.

    • But isn’t it glamorous? Ladies love it. Virus [sic] is like some Hollywood villain: it preys on the weak and the aged; threatens our heroic healthcare workers (#frontlines); and now, it’s now up to us Trader Joe patrons to stop it. From my living room, CNN’s leads the recruitment effort by broadcasting clips of black women with their voices set to piano tracks. Boy, does that hack a goodwhite’s pleasure centers. Gets ‘em twitcher than a robot that fell in the tub.

      Dealing with the economic problems we’re facing, though, is about as appealing to policymakers as mapping Leviathan. It’s probably way more difficult, too. Things will collapse in ways that the common mind couldn’t grasp. And many of our dear leaders — though they live rich lives — are lucky to have a common mind at their disposal with 8 hours of good sleep. It’s easier for a person like De Blasio to just focus on the virus because he already has pie charts for that. Added bonus, he gets to feel like God.

      You guys remember when that asshole killed NY’s state groundhog?

  40. Normal males are filtering into antiquarian politics. For many, this is just a better version of the video game of life.

    I don’t know about that. I know a lot of guys, such as myself, who are trying to take that step beyond the internet into real life.

    I think these “antiquarian” interests–substitute the synonym “historical” and the sentence seems very different–are getting more white men politically switched on. And the antiquarian qualities will be tempered by reality when guys finally “go IRL.”

    Seems like a good thing, TBH.

    • Once it gets noticed you will see the Harypies either infest the movement or have it banned.

      IOW it will go nowhere until the underlying infrastructure is destroyed. And that infrastructure is the courts and badged Orcs with guns. This is why some on our side wish for another Great Depression to kick these SOB;s to the curb.

      • We might get a Depression this time, who knows? The current time won’t be just a garden-variety postwar recession. If there is any desire for the desire to let the old system crash so we can rebuild it, perversely a point for your side is that the USA, indeed every entity, is so hopelessly in debt, I am sometimes amused how long the system has held together. I don’t think the old system can really be reformed, sort of an economic collapse. People will continue accepting dollars (Euros, etc.) as long as they have any value. But when the day comes that they are worthless, all bets are off. But you can be assured the old system will be dead.

    • Yes, it is. Despite the different political philosophy conveyor belts that generations may hop on and off, there are eternal truths. And the young guys, with their objectivity, and their having been through the meat grinder of their parents’ divorce, Ritalin, every institution trying to tell them their masculine tendencies are criminal, and shrieking brainwashed young woman — they are well-qualified to recognize the value of these truths and hold fast. Maybe they will set an example for the more timid males, and overcome at least some of the young females’ brainwashing with their [the young men’s] self-confident, ages-old wisdom and bearing. One caveat — many pushy, overbearing women over the age of 25 are past rescuing.

      Newton’s Third Law will not be mocked.

      • I’d llke to see Newton’s First Law applied to the indoctinators of these young men and women. Preferably straight to the gut.

  41. A philosophy from 1848 vs. one from 1925. How passe. (Communist Manifesto vs. Mein Kampf.)

  42. The frustrating thing for many of us I think is just the realization that whatever the next step is we are not there yet. We know it’s not going to look exactly like the past but we also know that it is becoming increasingly obvious that the present is not functioning properly. This gynocracy or whatever we may call our present situation is unsustainable.
    However as someone said about the financial markets they can remain unsustainable longer than you can remain solvent.
    All we can do really is watch and wait.
    Sort of like watching the Cincinnati Bengals develop a championship team.
    At this point it looks extremely frustrating.
    But history moves on its own timetable.
    And we could wake up next year as the Bengals have won the Super Bowl.

  43. The thing about the fashy aesthetic/larp/fantasy is that, for a lot of young guys, it’s the only positive thing they can think of.

    It’s like the only piece of wood near a guy drowning in the ocean.

    Modern life is so pathetic–softness, obesity, womanliness, fakeness, degeneracy, et cetera–that guys are desperate.

    It is interesting, though, how other potential models of how to be–John Wayne tough guy, Cary Grant suave, mid-20th-century respectable, et al–have fallen by the wayside.

    • John Wayne only works in a masculine world, both fictional and non-fictional. It doesn’t work anymore because to recreate the movie in the present day would require an absurd suspension of disbelief, as the real character would be arrested for domestic violence or carrying a handgun without a license.

      A character like John Wayne can only be a defender, not a creator. I think those young guys understand that on some level, and that’s why him and similar characters are no longer popular.

      • That, essentially, is the plot of “ The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance”, Wayne’s best movie.

    • They are all deconstructed. The deconstruction of productive masculine models for white men has lead to the steady growth of the fringe. Men can find masculine validation as leaders, builders and protectors or as warriors, takers and conquerors.

      If men cannot find masculine validation through peaceful means, they will become warriors and take what they want through conquest.

      In the years to come look for young white males to increasingly embrace religious extremism, to start forming criminal gangs, to rush into more fringe politics. All of this is done in order to find an authentic masculinity and to embrace power and strength in its rawest form, not as builder, but as conqueror.

      • I think this outcome is highly unlikely. The fact is any white guys who could function as a leader, religious or otherwise, are materially successful within the system as it exists today. The military alone soaks up hundreds of thousands of those leaders every year, it’s riot insurance for white men.

        • Riot Insurance for white men.
          I like that.

          This suggests a course of action, not that I’m advocating action, of course not ask my attorney.

          But just metaphorically conceit wise
          Perhaps all us not lost.

          “ The fact is any white guys who could function as a leader, religious or otherwise, are materially successful within the system as it exists today. The military alone soaks up hundreds of thousands of those leaders every year, it’s riot insurance for white men.”

      • Young white men are already forming criminal gangs. I see them in my job all the time. The most prominent are the United Aryan Brotherhood and the Irish Mob. They are made up mostly of clownish thugs — young men who, with proper role models and intact homes with a working father, would have been working fathers themselves with intact homes, constructively woven into the societal fabric and saved from their worst instincts.

        And then there are the Native American gangs, the Asian gangs, the Mexican gangs, and the black gangs. What a mess.

      • @dirtnapninja. A good take on the future of masculinity because it’s rooted in biology > culture > politics. It also hints at the root of the atavistic desire for collapse that Zman notes is growing more prevalent. If Builder is no longer a viable role, then Pillager fills the vacuum.

      • All for it. Now, if we can just get them to put down the video game console and crawl out of the basement of their mom’s house.

    • Alot of white guys are finding this masculine balance in Negro culture and the rap lifestyle. I can honestly understand the allure, even if they’re totally wrong about it.

      Anyways, I agree, there’s currently no use for “toxic” masculinity outside of certain labour jobs which are looked down on and demeaned anyways.

      The decline of the family has made it harder for men to get steady girlfriends/wives, so alot more of men’s time is trying to “get pussy” rather than bonding and shooting the shit with other men.

      Personally I am totally drawn to the fashy things, but even Stalin’s russia has more appeal to me than Globohomo. I’m too smart to adopt negro culture as my masculine substitute.

      • I’ve never been looked down upon for my trade in fact in just the opposite they are fascinated by what I do and am glad that their are men like me keeping the lights and all their conveniences running…And this is coming from doctors, lawyers, and engineer’s…Also from actors but usually only when their power was out… Something to think about for all you younger guys out there in the Dissident Right…

      • Black culture that so poor quality that other civilized society didn’t consider as culture at all
        masculine only when the system allow to be, rioting where place and timing that they can feel safe, beating weak white men and women in dark places
        that’s not masculinity, we call it nihilistic cowardly

        The current declining social norm is symptoms that white men became inferior in so pathetic way
        no matter what people said about Belle Époque
        Colonial white men were superior being

    • if you look at the huge popularity of Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan among young men, I think the conditioning is wearing off to some degree. The left however still has administrative power, as much as their beliefs fall out of favor .

      • Alot of young men were raised by Beta fathers. Basically no real role models. Peterson is just saying things that a real father would discuss with his son. Rogan is mostly locker room talk that alot of men are no longer allowed to engage in.

        I can’t help but look at my own beta, simp, divorced dad with disgust. I don’t want to make it sound like I have “daddy issues” or am ungrateful (I appreciate he did his best) but he’s just not masculine material. Sportsball and normiecon news, race-blind ideology, never actually teaching his sons how to be men. Rogan and peterson fill this need (I don’t follow either, though).

        So yeah, let’s hope that the conditioning is wearing off. It is, in some circles, but in the wealthier upper middle class areas it doesn’t seem to be.

        • The conditioning will only only wear off with a huge shock to the system. The COVID overreaction will help, but we’ve conditioned several generations of simps that would be Deltas in a properly functioning society. A large percentage of them are not coming back from that.

    • As a culture we are prisoners of our success.

      Many, probably most White people in the US will never run into a situation where being a tough guy benefits them.

      LARPING is about as good as it gets.

      The poor and working classes are something of an exception but that is largely a product of unrestrained economic warfare from the uppers and of drugs. Get rid of the economic warfare and the need for toughness goes with it.

      Also too something Trapped on Clown World, we don’t need defenders of society. No one other than bug men thinks any part of this society other than cheap goods is worth defending.

      We need people to be Dirtnapninja’s proverbial warriors, takers and conquerors.

      This isn’t the folly of invading some other nation like ahem Poland but of building your own nation against resistance.

      If you want for example Christendom or a moral society you have to make it happen with force. The US is too strong for the nonce for that but time wounds all heels.

      Let me give you a policy example.

      People here often want porn banned,

      If you want this as policy in your polity, sorry couldn’t resist you have to be publicly willing to have your state in some cases hang pornographers and porn stars and put it up on the Jumbotron for all to see along with with a big banner reading Degenerate Purveyor of Filth or the like.

      That is what a porn ban means, not some nigh unenforceable regulation but a lot of nooses pour encourager les autres until people decide its not worth the risk

      If you aren’t willing to have the State do that or at least lock people up for long long periods of time, you can’t ban something almost everyone uses.

      Same with drugs, same usury or with anything else.

      Order is a ruthless big state enterprise

      And note this is incompatible with the Liberty in any sense as personal freedom is intelligently Left wing unless that freedom is driven by long standing tradition or is for the good of the state.

      In essence a Right Wing society is a lot of “All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.” with that State fully giving way to tradition and often as not enforcing it against all comers.

      When the State supports organic tradition, its Right Wing. When it pretends to its Totalitarian , when it doesn’t, its something else of the Left.

      We don’t have an organ tradition so best we can do is sane Leftism pretending to back the tattered remains of our faux tradition. In time, a real tradition will emerge and the State can become farther Right and as the tradition grows smaller, so will that State as well since it has a smaller purpose.

      Well subject to the economy but that’s another post.

  44. The fatal flaw with “Liberal Democracy” was the democracy part. So after CA banned Illegals getting benefits and Gay Marriage, we need the Kritarchy to set them straight.

    Vote until you get it right, and if you get it wrong you will be overruled. So much for democracy.

    Similarly the Liberal half. Because we don’t want our workers killed or maimed, our air and water polluted, and too obvious cronyism and bribery, we’ll just move everything where that can happen like Mexico or China.

    Both destroyed the social cohesion that made Liberal Democracy possible. Like most things unrecognized, the Liberal Democracy, or even economic prosperity is not caused by some wise leader, but an underlying culture. You don’t need FICO scores when you and your banker attend the same church. You don’t need complex legal and financial instruments when you can count on a handshake sealing a deal.

    Add in the ever technocratic libertarians and they all have in common an attempt at engineering some utopia.

    What is missed is that you don’t engineer a tree, you plant a seed.

    Gather a population majority of nonconformist protestant puritan Christians, and we get the Declaration and Constitution. Gather a bunch of enlightenment technocrats and you get the Reign of Terror.

    Invite or promote people who won’t work for and often destroy “nice things”, and we can’t have “nice things”.

    • You mean the Clitarchy, which includes liberal male judge sob sisters who have no survival instincts.

    • I think the fatal flaw was the “nation of immigrants” part – where nations were impugned and deliberately watered down into identity-less individuals.

      I think democracy would work better in a closed voting nation system and a vilification of globalism to make nazi heads spin.

      I’m not certain if that brings back the constant wars (heh… we have that now).

      • the thing is, we would have to tie to that new nationalism a ban on irredentism that is quite hard in practice, specially since some borders are so porous. for example, half the American Southwest would have to be uprooted: either whites from it if the Ethnostate (TM) doesn’t want even a 16th of a Mexican from there; or all those Mexican-descended current inhabitants, some of whom have spoken English for decades and own enough wealth and influence to at least call the Mexican government to help. would the Ethnostate leave the oil pumps and Los Angeles (which specially in late-20th-century was considered THE American city) that easy? what about the Gulf, are the rigs worth so many nwords and broken levees? or even harder, how about leaving the Deep South – it is inevitably multiracial, yet also such a historical and proud white population remains. or, would the Deep South whites have to accommodate themselves? if so, it would definitely not be a democratic accommodation, because democracy would mean darkies and in general whoever appeals the lowest common denominator has more votes… it’s just a matter of keeping that denominator worthy of the title. if you have a measure of worth that is – since we abolished God, not so much.

        at any rate, you can see that “voting” and “nation-states” as ideas in themselves only have some influence in these matters; these are terms that define processes, thus they need universals (God and inviolable laws) to work from and particulars ( to work with (of course, the interactions between the 3 create more diverse aspects of reality, but we have to look at clear first things for these purposes).

        • ” some of whom have spoken English for decades and own enough wealth and influence to at least call the Mexican government to help ..”

          What help could the Mexican govenment provide? Send the fearsome, hi tech Mex panzer divisions and air force to blitzkrieg El Norte?

    • @tz1
      Which is why I’ve advocated for over 10 years now the need to be building Communities of our people that are for our people…It takes work though and most just don’t have it in them to do that…A crisis though does make them wake up to the fact that they need to though so I guess that’s one positive of this virus…

      • People don’t know how to build intentional communities. I know I certainly don’t. Like most people my community is a combination of school, church, family, and a few co-workers; that came naturally.

        • That works fine. Just find a few more like minded souls, bring them into the community and get into politics. It flows organically from there.

          Folks call this concept Fam these days or back in the day people you shared frith with

          One example of things to do is to try and make sure that no one has to leave the community for work and let’s say that a house becomes available , make sure you sell it to people in your community or rent to them.

          Hell if you have chores you need someone else to do, hire your friends kids or you buddies, so long as they do the job of course.

          I do this and it keeps money in friendly hands and slows its velocity. More for your guys, less for them.

          • You are one of the few people other than me who gets this and if there were more like us, we’d have less problems and more solutions.

            Even if our paths never cross I know you and yours are well on the way to something better and you know what? That makes me happy.

          • Thanks Brother I appreciate that… Hopefully our paths cross because I would like to shake your hand and pick your brain on solutions…

          • Why not look to those who have been doing this for millennia for a how-to-do example – the Hasidim. Start by deeming all others outside your community as subhumans/livestock/threats and the rest follows naturally from there. Has to be seen as fundamental to your survival as a group, treating such beliefs as a religion helps with structure and resistance to change. Genetic proximity is essential, as is deep commitment to the group and penalties for leaving. Think circumcision… especially at that time. Don’t trust your women – lineage passes thru them only. Etc, etc.

    • Another problem with any scheme and this may not be true in all places at all times, but consider too that: All actions have consequences. Not just the ones you intended. What are the unintended? Good, bad or indifferent? John can rob Peter to pay Paul. If John is a politician, the crowd thinks he’s a benefactor when he is nothing of the sort. And surely Paul is genuinely deserving. No, as a democracy ages, he’s more likely a well-connected crony. And Peter is the forgotten man, in the old days, the middle-class taxpayer. What I’ve described above is socialism, fascism, maybe other things. I think the ultimate problem is that either Peter runs out of things to be relieved of, or else he buys a gun.

    • Vote until you get it right kind of reinforces the virtue of democracy. A great deal, if not a majority of the evil in society was not accomplished by democracy, but by the courts.
      Before FDR stacked the federal courts with progressives and communists, and created endless federal programs and got us into the war, democracy was working as well or better than most of the other systems in the world at that time. The courts have been instrumental in creating the giant mess.
      I suppose it is fair to blame FDR on democracy, he was beloved and elected 4 times in a row. But an aristocrat or king would have had the same effect if they had wanted the same things as he. FDR largely got into power because of the actions of central banks.

      • tars – FDR was voted for and beloved by Ellis Island immigrants and their first generation ‘American’ children – everyone’s beloved (great) grandma and grandpa, proving ‘anyone’ can become ‘American.’ He was detested by the old guard, not merely because of his socialist policies, but precisely because he was beloved by the ‘European refuse’ he assiduously courted. Mass immigration – even by other White Europeans – changes a place. We are not what we once were. Even reversing the post ’65 flow will not untie that Gordian knot.

        • While I completely agree with you that America was primarily an English, and to a lesser extent, German, society, that ship sailed a long time ago. Europeans are certainly more compatible than Africans or Asians. It makes no sense to say since one evil was done, we might as well go all the way (not accusing you of doing that) and import a bunch Mexicans, Africans and Asians.

          Hopefully a lot of foreigners are going to be going home. Unlike them, this is our home. We can’t just get up and leave because we lost our jobs, whereas they can and probably will want to do so. When the chips are down and the easy times are over, there really is no place like home.

    • you also get the Seneca Falls Convention with those people. yes, they were better than we are now, but that puritan spiral into abolitionism and way beyond was a major flaw. of course, Catholics when they spiraled they did so for conformity with the richer Anglo-Enlightened-Jew world, as they had gone too lazy to contest the supremacy, rested on laurels since Lepanto.
      ideally, as always, the divorce(s) would have never happened.

    • Really? All I hear is complaints and not an iota of thought towards any possible solutions. Reminds me of how women respond to problems. They don’t want to create or hear solutions they only want to complain about them and call other people out.

      • Bitching about bitching. Heh. It’s a weird time right now, oft-times frustrating. People need to blow a little steam.

      • Do you really think a solution to our problems lay in these morons larping a completely discredited government of 80 years ago? Putting aside the fact that they are completely incompetent and incapable of putting together a college lecture series, is there anyone who actually believes they could take power?

        Like leftists, the larpers pretend that pre-Nazi Wiemar Republic and modern America have something in common. They completely divorce the specifics of Wiemar Republic that made it susceptible to takeover.
        The Wiemar Republic had very little support in either the elite or the masses. It was a new form of government forced on a people that did not want it. Along with that was one failure after another and the government’s inability to do anything about it. The people and the elite had no faith in the system.

        We have the exact opposite problem. Everyone deeply believes in the system. Even most “radicals” believe in it and just want to perfect it. Democracy and equality are our national religion. Everyone, elite included has been raised and had these ideas reinforced all their lives in endless ways.

        Even if someone in a position of enormous responsibilities and power like Donald Trump or even Obama could not take over the state and impose some new form of government. If they tried, they would be arrested and shot. The US and even the states of Europe are not the Wiemar Republic.

        • All true. But… looking at morons like Demented Joe, Stretch Pelosi, Schiff Fer Brains… it’s not like they could do much worse. If they did nothing at all, they’d still be better than their competition…

        • The solution to our problems is to to talk about them, and undermine anyone who would actually act like a man to solve them. Of course voting is useless, and all is lost until we change the conversation, which will magically happen if we get the most useless people on earth – the American normie – to nod and agree with you.

          Because they’d never actually just smile and agree with you unless they were sincere.

          • Yeah, I agree we should talk about them. But we need intelligent thoughtful people, not just whoever happens to come along like idiots like Richard Spencer.
            Richard Spencer has done more to discredit the right wing opposition to the status quo than probably any other living American of the past 50 years.

            This is (should be) completely obvious.

          • It really should be simple. Focus on white issues, talk about them, offer steps towards solutions. Step one might be to attempt put an end to affirmative action without cucking out and using “muh asians” as cover for your cowardice. Forming an advocacy organization akin to the SPLC, ADL, or NAACP would also be a great step. What we really need are lawyers and money. Something like FIRE, but not jewish and compromised. If anyone knows of anything like these that exist I would love to contribute.

          • But since those in power will likely never allow this route to come to fruition, the only real viable options might only be less comfy methods. I can’t say for sure but I’d bet on the former being the likeliest outcome. There’s already been plenty of evidence that those in control will do everything they can to prevent any legal proliferation of pro-white organization. The only thing we are allowed is controlled opposition, i.e. the asian affirmative action thing. Even though asians are over represented already in the Ivy league et. al. and gentile whites are less than 20% despite our 60% population and 70% rate of presenting academically viable candidates to these institutions.

            Here’s a link from an semi-reputable source, the other more normie convincing one from princeton I had got shoahed already, of course. I guess they caught on to us using it and buried it somewhere inaccessible.


        • The problem with critiquing and comparing historical examples is that the victors write the history books for the most part. It’s hard to suss out fact from propaganda, and the people who wrote the current history books would want to portray the Wiemar gov’t as weak since it serves to weaken the legacy of what replaced it. Where fascism rose, it was in response to the same type of perversity we see today and people are afraid to go against the tide as much today as they have always been throughout history. “One failure after another” sounds awfully familiar to me, how has the USA been doing lately? We win any wars? Anything funky going on with our culture or financial system?

          Sure, what replaces the current order is not going to be a carbon copy of what happened in the past but it might well resemble it. History never repeats but it often rhymes.

          And Trump and Obama are both puppets of the donor class, they wouldn’t have ever tried to do that. Trump maybe less so but it’s gotta be obvious to you by now that he doesn’t really care all that much about the people. He said what he needed to say to get elected. He meant very little of it.

      • Yeah he doesn’t want to do anything but have a cup of coffee, anyone who acts is beyond the Pale, and made an object of Ridicule.

        Anyone who achieves anything like say Buckley is torn down, or for that matter Cerno. Frankly I’m getting Telltale Mens Rea.

        Snappy, subdued snark polemics.
        Meet the smiling poisoner, he will smile then undermine the shit out of anyone with the balls to act.

        This of course is acid to the soul, but its not my acid, and not my soul.

        • I can never tell whether you’re fed-posting or alt-lite posting, V. All these unspecified calls for “ACTION NOW” but then you cite Buckley & Cerno as effective activists?

          • There’s no solution that doesn’t involve, in some way, shape, or form, starting fresh.

            I think all DR’s, regardless of specifics, agree on this.

          • Here’s a thought. Add, by whatever legal mechanisms necessary, a expiration date to our constitution. Say 3 years. Every Federal politician gets fired. A new Founding. Write a new constitution, Bill of Rights, the whole show. The states vote on it. If 2/3’s of states approve of the new constitution, we stay united under that new constitution. Otherwise another constitution is written to the satisfaction of those dissident states. Two countries, two constitutions, new expiration dates, all new Federal politicians.

          • Think about what you just proposed and then realize if you have no power now what makes you think that those in power will make it any easier on you if you burn it to the ground and want to start over…Your missing the big picture and that is it’s not about any set of laws it’s about who has the power to enforce any laws they want…

          • Those in power have never had more power, yet they seem willing to throw it all away in some sort of weird, quasi-religious ordinance.

          • The reason why we have become lawless, is because liberal judges insist on updating an old constitution written by men long since dead. The living constitution, don’t you know? A new Founding with a new more precise constitution, a constitution benefiting from centuries of experience, will have no penumbras by which liberal judges can use to corrupt original intent.

          • Term limits for all federal employees, a balanced budget requirement, eliminating the power of Congress to “coin” money, taxes can only be levied on consumption and international trade, giving real teeth to the 10th Amendment, etc….Make a list

          • Add right of free association, end affirmative action, end birth right citizenship, close our borders, make it ok to be white.

          • Exile,

            That’s because I’m not fed posting or alt whatever the fug you’re putting down. Perhaps my remarks should be taken as is, and not thru filters.

            Who said action? Not me. Or at least I don’t recall. Ask my attorney.

            Now for some more filter non-compliance – I am simply stating that mere talk is worse than useless.

            As for Buckley – he made something of his movement. Including at least 2 Presidents. The envy drips from the screen.

            For that matter so has Cerno. “Cerno discredited the ___Right…blah blah.” Sure Cerno’s a flake. I wouldn’t go near him.
            But he isn’t a NOTHING.
            He might be a clown, but that clown moved some pieces down the board.

            This all points towards nothing.
            Not by chance.

            This Here is a waste of material, missed opportunities. I only swing by because it still has a pulse. The author is sane, if a bit envious and undermining of all potential competitors. Including Buckley’s ghost. I swing by here just because some reading haven’t quit. Not that they’re bothering to comment.
            It’s unnatural for men to want to quiver and grovel, you’ll tire of it in time and perhaps missing some meals. You’ll tire of cowardice.

            When that happens you’ll listen.
            At least you can’t say you weren’t told.

    • I did not look at this comment as “bitching,” but a recognition that the ZMan dropped a 50 megaton bomb of truth.

      The current dynamic is very strange in that a significant minority of the Dissident Right is effectively arguing for full-on socialism, and the difficulty in discerning a difference with the left is who or what is to blame.

      • full-on? just because it’s not post-war neocon conservatism or libertarianism, doesn’t mean it’s socialist. before 1945 the problem of distribution had many answers on the Right. look up the Christian Socials.

      • Socialism and fascism are 2 sides of same coin. The founder of fascism Mussolini originally was a communist and was affiliated with Lenin. Then he had a brainstorm and understood that means of production shouldn’t be given to the proletariat. That’s where he differed from Marx and Lenin. He correctly figured out that workers, given management rights, will quickly destroy that factory that capitalist runs so successfully.
        So he proposed a government controlled directives, but day to day management being left to the owners. As a result “the trains did run on time”. It took Hitler to introduce antisemitism into this new version of socialism.
        After the WWII Stalin was successful into categorizing fascism as right wing movement. It never was.

        • Anna, “Fascists R The Real Commies” is the 6 Million Island Dressing that your Tribe spreads on that particular kosher sandwich to make it White-palatable.

          Fascists often had Left-wing backgrounds because the Left is more often where thinkers can better learn meta-political awareness.

          Is David Horowitz still a commie b/c “New Left” in the 1970’s? I’d say “yes b/c Jewish” in many ways, but that’s not your spiel.

          Most of the Right in Bad Dago’s day were bone-headed reactionaries yearning for pastoral manorialism and arranged marriages. Look at EMJ’s Catholic Identitarians or “PT Carlo’s” dead-end NRXers for modern examples.

          Anyone who still believes that “capitalism” runs factories “successfully” is neck-deep in Alisa Rosenbaum’s Ashkenazi potato-liquor.

        • In my opinion boiling down the fascism vs communism to a definition of economics is wrong. The very idea that economics decides the political spectrum is a left wing ideas. Also, Mussolini considered himself on the right.

      • As I noted before, at no point in US history has the US ever had a Rightist government.

        The US Constitution was built on the rights of the individual for the individual which is a Leftist concept on its face.

        Right wing governments would be traditionalist, a close to monoethnic as possible ,focused around the greater civic good , a single religion and very probably monarchical as well, it line with the old European division.

        Ignoring the issues of slavery and much later, non White immigration , we have none of those, too few authentic common traditions,too little sense of the common good , too many ethnic groups (Despite what folks like Spencer think White is not an ethnic group) too many religious variations and so on.

        There is no US Right, only a slower roll to Leftism.

        Combine that with the natural Leftward drive of Industrial age and later versions of modernity , its logical that the Right isn’t, well Right/

        As far as our stunted political vocabulary, again natural a Leftist society is either going to look like some kind of Nationalist Socialism or Internationalist Socialism , i.e socialism in one country or many.

        An actual Right state would be so different than plaything we know that not only is it nigh impossible to implement, its nigh impossible to conceive of.

        The closest most of us might come to undertaking would be something like the Amish or the FLDS minus polygamy way o living combined with ultranationalism , Paleo Conservatism, which is sort of Right Wing and Communitarianism

        Might as well be from Mars for most people.

        Until than it makes sense to pick the least Left system you can find and go what.

        I’m with a stronger Paleo Con system myself but someone else may have a better idea.

        • The Classical Liberalism of the founders, for all its faults, worked pretty well with a nation of Brits, Scandis, and assorted NordEuros.

          When we got away from that, the fuse was lit for its destruction. The presence of a parasite on the Body Politic accelerated it.

          They’re f***king up big-time now. It’s not July 1789 yet, but the Estates General are going to get called pretty quick if current trends hold.

          • It really only worked with an Anglo population which is some Brits and some Germans and a very tiny number of “others” and only until roughly the railroad made travel cheap and filled out the frontier

            From the beginning the relentless push for more population for faster growth and cheaper labor doomed us as we could sort people for ideological suitability.

            In any case the original system began to die with Lincoln and was finished by F.D Roosevelt and modernity.

            If the system is to be replaced, whoever is to do it will need to understand that you can’t use 1776 ideas in 2020 and that like it or not, you will have State.

            Once example reason is the same tech that brought us COVID 19. Without government boots on necks some moron will end up doing that or worse here in a domestic lab when profit motive or just curiosity overrides conscientiousness.

            Essentially the DR is going to have to be the kind of State where its a good place to raise kids with stable jobs and stable families. Sure the Karen’s will like it but ah well , still much better than this mess.

            One hopes the Estates General won’t need to be called but its hard to say. America has a lot of money obsessed nutters with no connection to society and they may not budge.

        • “The closest most of us might come to undertaking would be something like the Amish or the FLDS ..”

          I’m guessing that you come from a Mormon background, but don’t want to admit it.

          • I’m not from an LDS background. The Prospers are nominally Methodist have been as long as I can remember though I can’t think of any Prospers that go to church.

        • This country has also never had a far-leftist movement with kind of power they have now. I wouldn’t want to live in the type of far-right world you imagine and I don’t think many other people would either. How long did this country make it before it started destroying itself with third world immigration, endless wars, corruption, etc? What’s the average life-span of any country or civilization? This country built itself up to were it towered above every other country on Earth. I would never have wanted to be born anywhere-else. Point being-this country must have been doing Something right! Name a system that’s resulted in what this country was. The problem with the system here is that it got corrupted and perverted. What-ever system you can imagine is going to be flawed because people are flawed.

          If I was going to start a nation-state somewhere, I would base it on the same basic system we have/had right here. I would then correct the flaws and adapt it to the modern world.

          • You don’t deserve to be downvoted for civ nattery

            I’d be happy to eat my own political dog food since my brand of Far Right hews close to American tradition, is populist , pro White and in no way shape for form Neo Liberal .

            Populist Economic Nationalism, American Traditionalism and and a Natal Culture beets the hell out of Clown World.

        • The vast bulk of people on the DR including a great many people here aren’t aware of that basic truth.

          Education at least starts people thinking in the correct direction.

          That said I”ll give you your course of action, 100% legal, 100% above board, reasonably inexpensive and might even work.

          Learn to organize and get organized with like minded people Politics is a group activity, Right politics is a borderline collectivist activity.

          Once you learn to do that, how to persuade people to your cause than start running people for political office.

          Build a power base and take power from there.

          At that point you can start to change things.

          If you can’t do this, than do what you can to educated and persuade to your case so that people who are good at organizing things can do this.

          And note if you think its useless, we elected a community organizer and one term senator POTUS twice.

          Groups win, rugged individualists lose. Its as easy as that.

      • Heres the thing, ConservativeFred; socialism is a political tool. Free speech is a similar tool which our opponents used to undermine and overturn our society, removing our ability to stop their poison. When you are at risk of being silenced, you complain to the heavens about how free speech is the sine qua non of moral societies. When your people are being economically ground into submission by ultrawealthy cosmopolitan freaks and international multi-trillion dollar corporations, you start singing how great socialism is for the soul of the country and how trust-busting is good for the national moral character. Like libtards with gun crime, you have confused the means/tools with the goals.

        • Not having free speech is the problem! Those in power Always have it, it’s everyone else that needs it protected…

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