The Loss Of Dignity

If you step back and think about it, the normal man can probably list a dozen things he cannot say in public that he grew up hearing on television, usually as jokes. Then the jokes were no longer welcome in polite company and soon they were deemed “not funny” by the sorts of people who worry about such things. The same was true of simple observations about the world. Somehow noticing the obvious became impolite, then it became taboo and finally prohibited.

The reverse is true as well. Middle-aged men can probably think of a dozen things that were unimaginable or unheard of, which are now fully normal. Of course, normal is one of those things that is now prohibited. It implies that something can be abnormal or weird and that itself is forbidden. The proliferation of novel identities and activities that demand to be treated with dignity and respect is a function of the old restraints having been eliminated. When everything is possible you get everything.

The strange thing about all of this is there is seemingly no point to it. The proliferation of new taboos was not in response to some harm being done. In most cases, the taboos are about observable reality. The people turning up in the public square with novel identities or activities demanding respect did not exist very long ago. If they did, not one was curious enough to look into it. The public was happy to ignore people into unusual activities, as long as they kept it to themselves.

Of course, none of what we generally call political correctness is intended to be uplifting or inspirational. The commissars of public morality like to pretend it is inspiring, but that’s just a way to entertain themselves. These new identity groups are not demanding the rest of us seek some higher plane of existence or challenge our limitations. In fact, it is always in the opposite directions. It’s a demand to lower standards and give up on our quaint notions of self-respect and human dignity.

In the Demon In Democracy, Polish academic Ryszard Legutko observed that liberal democracy had abandoned the concept of dignity. This is the obligation to behave in a certain way, as determined by your position in society. Dignity was earned by acting in accordance with the high standards of the community. In turn, this behavior was rewarded with greater privilege and responsibility. Failure to live up to one’s duties would result in the loss of dignity, along with the status it conferred.

Instead, modern liberal democracy awards dignity by default. We are supposed to respect all choices and all behaviors as being equal. There are no standards against which to measure human behavior, other than the standard of absolute, unconditional acceptance. As a result, the most inventively degenerate and base activities spring from the culture, almost like a test of the community’s tolerance. Instead of looking up to the heavens for inspiration, liberal democracies look down in the gutter.

Dignity comes from maintaining one’s obligations to his position in the social order, but that requires a fidelity to a social order. It also requires a connection to the rest of the people in the society. In a world of deracinated individuals focused solely on getting as much as they can in order to maximize pleasure, a sense of commitment to the community is not possible. Democracy assumes we are all equal, therefore we have no duty to one another as duty requires a hierarchical relationship.

In the absence of a vertical set of reciprocal relationships, we get this weird lattice work of horizontal relationships, elevating the profane and vulgar, while pulling down the noble and honorable. The public culture is about minimizing and degrading those who participate in the public culture. In turn, the public culture attracts only those who cannot be shamed or embarrassed. The great joy of public culture is to see those who aspire to more get torn down as the crowd roars at their demise.

The puzzle is why this is a feature of liberal democracy. Ryszard Legutko places the blame on Protestantism. Their emphasis on original sin and man’s natural limitations minimized man’s role in the world. This focus on man’s wretchedness was useful in channeling our urge to labor and create into useful activities, thus generating great prosperity, but it left us with a minimalist view of human accomplishment. We are not worthy to aspire to anything more than the base and degraded.

It is certainly true that the restraints of Christianity limited the sorts of behavior that are common today, but he may be putting the cart before the horse. The emergence of Protestantism in northern Europe was as much a result of the people and their nature as anything else. Put more simply, the Protestant work ethic existed before there was such a thing as a Protestant. The desire to work and delay gratification evolved over many generations out of environmental necessity.

Still, culture is an important part of man’s environment and environmental factors shape our evolution. It is not unreasonable to say that the evolution of Protestant ethics magnified and structured naturally occurring instincts among the people. With the collapse of Christianity as a social force in the West, the natural defense to degeneracy and vulgarity has collapsed with it. As a result, great plenty is the fuel for a small cohort of deviants to overrun the culture of liberal democracies.

Even so, there does seem to be something else. Liberal democracy has not produced great art or great architecture. The Greeks and Romans left us great things that still inspire the imagination of the man who happens to gaze upon them. The castles and cathedrals of the medieval period still awe us. The great flourishing of liberal democracy in the 20th century gave us Brutalism and dribbles of pain on canvas. The new century promises us primitives exposing themselves on the internet.

There is something about the liberal democratic order that seeks to strip us of our dignity and self-respect. Look at what happened in the former Eastern Bloc countries after communism. Exposed to the narcotic of liberalism they immediately acquired the same cultural patterns. Fertility collapsed. Religion collapsed. Marriage and family formation collapsed. These suddenly free societies got the Western disease as soon as they were exposed to western liberal democracy.

The reaction we see today is not due to these societies being behind the times, but due to seeing the ugly face of liberal democracy. It is much like the reaction to the proliferation of recreational drugs in the 1970’s. At first, it seemed harmless, but then people realized the horror of unrestrained self-indulgence. That’s what we see in the former Eastern Bloc. Their leaders still retain some of the old sense of things and are trying to save their people from the dungeon of modernity.

That still leaves us with the unanswered question. What is it about liberal democracy that seems to lead to this loss of dignity? It is possible that such a fabulously efficient system for producing wealth is a tool mankind is not yet equipped to handle without killing ourselves. Maybe we are just not built for anything but scarcity. Want gives us purpose and without it, we lose our reason to exist. Either way, without dignity, we cannot defend ourselves and the results are inevitable.

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308 thoughts on “The Loss Of Dignity

  1. Dignity is still there and fully extant like any truth or goodness.
    It has been abandoned, or rejected.

    We used to be children of God through Adam, if not through Christ.

    Now we are just animals. A troupe of chimps that can talk.

    The former has dignity that can be lived up to. The latter has no dignity and to even attempt to discuss it is a category error.

    If we are mere animals, then dignity is something we can imagine, like unicorns, but doesn’t really exist no matter how much we pretend.

    Yet we seem to realize that we are more than mere brutes, yet like to leave the option open. For if we are more than we can have dignity, but must live up to that dignity. Behave in a manner showing it. But that is hard.

  2. the North Sea peoples need to forget “all work and no play” and come back to the Church that gave peasants their holiday festivals and enough scarcity. they needn’t stop being Catholic to work harder than the Mediterraneans and do ok, as Mitteleuropean Catholics show. they could even keep democracy, but as a tool and not an idol…

  3. Liberal democracy like communism and modernity is a product on the same Marxist historic view of dialectic materialism what Marx borrowed from Hegel.It takes different form of rule to communists but in the heart of this in the end reject God laws. So is obvious that will lead to loss of dignity how the author put it.Liberal democracy and socialism or communism is like road what start from same point and separate in some place and in the end reach the same town ,but one of the roads is much longer with many more turns.

  4. Outstanding. I have some meandering thoughts on this but they’re still pretty confused.

  5. I don’t know that it’s possible to tease out the different effects of ‘liberal democracy’ and ‘consumer capitalism’. The loss of ‘dignity’ is at least partially a loss of the status of ‘worker’, which is at least partially a result of women entering the work force. Gradually, people stopped caring what you did for a living and started caring about your ‘consumer branding’: what clothes you wore, what sportsball team you supported. No one very asked the majority of people in the ancient world to be good while surrounded by luxury. Most of them lived at just above subsistence. However, everywhere in the ancient world were material abundance was separated from productive labor prevailed, decadence did as well. Human beings are constantly making meaning from the resources provided by the world around them. We make the world as, in some sense, the world makes us. In this the Marxists are right *because they agree with the ancients*. No one every asked an ancient monk to stay chaste while living in a whorehouse, but that’s what the Moral Right seems to think is possible now.

  6. “What is it about liberal democracy that seems to lead to this loss of dignity?”

    The Tribe. I know that seems trite but the Tribe was behind the creation and promotion of modern: architecture, art and music. Through their role in the media, entertainment, law and education they have been at the forefront of all the destructive social science theories that you address in this excellent post.

    I live in Eastern Asia (India in Southern Asia is a different story) and daily I see the effects of not living in a society that has a media and legal system dominated the Tribe. We end up with many of the same destructive forces but they are muted and in part counterbalanced by other aspects of the culture. We don’t have the in your face, accept this or be destroyed, dynamic that you have in the US.

    The second aspect differentiating the impact of these liberal democracy changes between Asia and the US is the cultures are still group cultures and are not as enthusiastic about letting feminism (a product of the Tribe) destroy them. Protestantism was rooted in the highly individualistic nature of our cultures and in guilt. In Asia the family (and the group) is traditionally most important.

    Feminism is emerging over here but it isn’t as destructive, at least initially, and it is counterbalanced to a noticeable degree by the group. Women don’t get free reign to lower all standards so that they are never accountable or have to excel nor do they get full reign to destroy the society. People have no guilt over looking out for their group so you can’t guilt trip people into destroying their culture. Birth rates have plummeted and homosexuality is more noticeable but the culture is more than who can be the biggest freak or create the ugliest object. Being a complete freak here still brings shame to the group and that is still largely a taboo.

  7. I am reminded of a passage in the Old Testament book of Jeremiah, Chapter 6, verse 15

    Were they ashamed because they did these disgusting things? No, they were not at all ashamed; they don’t even know how to blush.

    We are living in a time when people no longer know how to blush.

    That still leaves us with the unanswered question. What is it about liberal democracy that seems to lead to this loss of dignity?

    You answered your own question, ZMan. It’s all about the left’s total abandonment of any and all standards.

    [N]ormal is one of those things that is now prohibited. It implies that something can be abnormal or weird and that itself is forbidden. … When everything is possible you get everything.

    If nothing is sacred then nothing is taboo and so anything – quite literally ANYTHING – goes. No surprises there.

  8. Funny thing is I watched Yuri Bezmenov for over 3 hours yesterday. In talking about the stages that the KGB uses to subvert democracies like ours, he said the only thing that can prevent the subversion is if the people have faith in God. I wonder if he really had a bad heart or if somebody gave him a heart attack since he defected from the Soviet Union and talked all about the evil deeds they did to this country. He was dead at age 54.

  9. Want gives us purpose and without it, we lose our reason to exist. Either way, without dignity, we cannot defend ourselves and the results are inevitable.

    Boom. ‘Nuff said.

  10. Zman: “Of course, normal is one of those things that is now prohibited. It implies that something can be abnormal or weird and that itself is forbidden.” When watching TV and the subject of something being weird comes up, it’s fun to perk up and listen to how they’re going to finagle the wording so as to convey that something was indeed strange, but without sounding judgemental about it. The go-to phrasing is to call it weird second-handedly, by saying how the bourgeoisie see it. (Or saw it, “a long time ago”). I was watching the Aaron Hernandez documentary (NFL player. Murderer). Turns out he was bisexual. In the 90’s he and his gay friend had to keep it a secret. Why? Not because of societal norms or mores. Hell, there’d be no one to blame if that were the reason. So, as always they blamed grimy old bougie. The exact term they used for the devil was “middle America”. Interesting, “middle America” is now an insult.

  11. “With the collapse of Christianity as a social force in the West, the natural defense to degeneracy and vulgarity has collapsed with it. As a result, great plenty is the fuel for a small cohort of deviants to overrun the culture of liberal democracies.”

    You have the causation arrow backwards; we were instructed to tolerate degeneracy, to not be a Bible-thumping prude, hung up about sexuality and probably secretly desiring to be a degenerate. Those who pushed this agenda through the media and academia were the small cohort of deviants who fully intended to collapse Christianity. Moral Relativism has been a powerful weapon against Christendom, aka Western Civilization.

  12. Sounds like the deliberate machinations of Ellsworth Toohey! Long before Z was born. Plato probably commented on that phenomena long before even I was born!

  13. “American society is the only one which has passed directly from barbarism into decadence without once knowing civilisation.”

    ― Albert Jay Nock, Memoirs of a Superfluous Man

  14. My theory for why liberalism is causing us to implode and revert to savages is simply that it weakens whatever people/nation/group that falls under its spell. Once weakened you become overwhelmed by the virus itself or outside groups you have no way to resist. Essentially liberal democracy is AIDS to our social immune system. Without medicine its only a matter of time til we are further infected by foreign bodies or just waste away.

    Making matters worse is it is extremely contagious aggressively spreading everywhere and once it takes hold it is nearly impossible to eradicate in an individual and practically impossible to remove from a group.

    This isnt a black pill. Things can seem inevitable and unstoppable until they arent and it only becomes obvious to most in hindsight why a thing ends, if ever.

    This is the error some in the alt right make with regards to you-know-whos. If by some miracle we kicked them all out tomorrow or they all left for some reason, we would still be infected by liberal democracy. Its like curing pneumonia when you still have AIDS. They arent the root of our problems, they are simply smart enough to know how to take over a weakened body. Same with other groups like the Chinese and so on.

    Our Liberalism weakened us and made way for Neoliberalism which we will survive but will be extremely unpleasant.

    Maybe next time some genius comes along and decides to overthrow a 1500 year old authority cos he thinks he can do it better, we quietly shuffle him off to a remote island somewhere and never hear from him again. As one of hundreds of examples i could have used. Liberalism after all is just endlessly asking the question, “i can do it better than them, so why should they have all the power and privilege?”

    For now, we need to wake as many people up to the reality of Liberalism as possible, raise our kids to understand it, and keep this tradition alive in our collective consciousness so that we dont make the same mistake our ancestors did and we can take advantage of the system weakening itself.

    We can become the foreign bodies now, we are already viewed that way, and if we weakened ourselves through liberalism whose to say the system wont as well? There will come a time when it will pay, like those who did it to us, to recognize that weakness as an opportunity and take appropriate steps to turn things around.

    To be clear i mean peacefully, as it was done the first time.

    • “They arent the root of our problems, they are simply smart enough to know how to take over a weakened body.”

      Gangrene causes more deaths than the wound itself. We can’t undo the sword-stroke but we can and should disinfect the wound.

      • Not all gangrene! Stop blaming everything on gangrene, people die from pianos falling on their heads also!

        • This is why the alt right is hopeless. Understanding the JayQue is great but then so what? We will have no moral framework to motivate anyone to do anything to solve any problems, but at least we can step down into our graves knowing we were more woke than everyone else?

          Is anything other than pure contempt for Them going to just be construed as full throated denial?

          When you finally convince some critical threshold of whites that They are our greatest enemy, whats the next step here? If i could get one alt righter to acknowledge the moral problem they have in the movement, which is to say liberalism gives people a moral framework in which to buy into liberalism whereas the alternatives do not, i might be convinced there was a snowballs chance in hell that anything useful was going to be accompolished. As it is the movement only has the moral framework to shame people for not signaling strong enough commitment to…the movement i guess. That is not a recipe for mass appeal or mass action.

          • “The school principal’s son steals your lunch money every day, and if you beat him up you’ll be sent to jail forever! Sucks to be you!”

            If you’ve got something positive to contribute, then contribute it. If you’d prefer to be a fluffer for our greatest ally, I’m sure you’ll find plenty of sympathetic ears on Breitbart’s Normiebook page.

      • If we cant fix ourselves and we are doomed to keep repeating the same mistakes that got us into this mess then what is the point of this? Just to talk abouy taboo subjects on the internet?

        A better metaphor would be we are extreme compulsive cutters and even if we cure the gangrene we will just keep cutting ourselves and getting it again.

        • We have more than one problem to solve and the question is: what is the most effective order in which to solve them?

          It seems like your suggestion is that we must first solve the problem of white pathological liberalism. That may well be unsolvable and only manageable, for genetic reasons. I think a better approach is to make whites racially aware of the threats arrayed against them, especially from “my fellow white people.”

          People of good faith can disagree about how to untie a knotted tangle of many cords.

          • Okay but then my question still stands: whats the plan? Do we really think knowledge is enough? If youre saying our people are mentally weakened, demoralized, complacent, on and on and theres no way to reverse it then id say to you that youve already lost and now we are just arguing over how best we should all understand our inevitable end. At the risk of repeating myself, if there is no plan to develop a moral conviction in our people then there is no plan. Yes that has to take Them into account, but simply pointing a finger in the current climate does nothing except violate peoples current moral convictions. How does that ultimately help? Heres another way to ask the question, did Hitler simply name them or did he give his people a reason to believe in themselves? Granted that was in a certain time and place, but the point is the principal.

  15. I must say, Zman’s understanding of this subject is far ahead of me, and most other people I would think. It’s almost as if I knew all this before I read the article, but seeing it spelled out so lucidly helped me to finally understand it.

    Is it possible that liberal democracy’s other great achievement, political stability is also at work in this process of degeneration?

    • It has been said the true leadership simply gives voice to what the people already know and feel.

  16. We no longer have either a Republic or a Popular Democracy. Both “D” and “R “party structures answer solely to the donors and corporations. Which is why voting doesn’t change anything at the National (and possibly State) level.

  17. It’s hard to talk seriously about dignity living in a society where its most famous female member began her road to fame and fortune by “leaking” a poorly made sex tape where she pretended to enjoy being sodomized by a D-league rapper.

    Of course, this isn’t quite as bad as the young women of European heritage who are more than happy to spend a weekend in the Gulf Arab countries to be used as human toilets by oil shieks and their buddies for $30k or so.

    Dignity, indeed.

  18. Well, another one into the upper deck, Mr. Z. While I agree that many of the commissars pretend PC is “inspiring” etc., there is a element that actually believes it – their demand to lower standards (though they don’t couch it as such), are actually what they think IS a higher plane of existence, and us cretins had better get on board.
    And a lot of this insanity is, as you mentioned, that life in general has gotten too easy in the past few decades. True hardship just isn’t found throughout much of western society, though that could possibly be changing in the not too distant future….

  19. Another dignity story, this one starring our heroic hospital persons.

    My elderly grandfather is rushed to the hospital. Near what would be the end of his life as a Dementia patient. My little, old trusting mother arrives first.

    I get there, and she says “they had me sign something.” So out comes Admissions Karen. I ask her to see what paperwork my mother signed. She goes back to her office and fetches them. I peruse, it includes my mother as a guarantor of any bills that go unpaid.

    I ask Karen, “have you made a copy of this yet?” Or is this the only one?

    Karan says,Oh no, not yet.”

    I shred it to bits, then pocket it. Let Admissions Karen know how I feel about what she tried to pull on my old, trusting mother.

    Rather undignified of Admissions Karen.

  20. Egalitarian ethics + one-man, one-vote politics + socially-corrosive media + libertarian economics + spiteful mutant citizens = a perfect storm of forces ripping a society apart.

    A society can withstand one or even a few of these factors (and it’s not a complete list, OFC), but they’re fatally synergistic in this kind of multi-layered combination. You can’t whack-a-mole The One Thing that somehow ties it all together.

    Protestantism was inevitable because ossified, dogmatic institutions become corrupt over time. Inflexible ideology can’t respond to changing circumstances. Technology and infrastructure development drove a lot of this by improving communications and scaling up the population.

    The Catholic Church had become so corrupt by the Reformation that it lost its legitimacy with too many citizens who were increasingly propagandized (or “well-informed” – take your pick) and were already losing social cohesion due to increasing diversity – particularly ethnic (aka biological & cultural) diversity

    Jung & Nietzsche were right in warning Christians that they lacked the narratives, mythology and critiques to address modernity. The Counter-Reformation bought them a little time but by the 19th century, they were cruising on the fumes of past inspiration. By the time Vatican II and the Protestants’ co-cuckery occurred in the 20th, the patient was too sick and weak to withstand the surgery.

    That said, if you don’t control for biology (kin, ethnicity, race) your social foundations will ultimately be inadequate to withstand modernity, regardless of how strong your religious or political ties are – pace E. Michael Jones and other religion-first identitarians, as well as civic religionists like (((Prager))).

    You need a solid biological foundation with a coherent, harmonious cultural outgrowth to have a chance to withstand the storm of modernity. To improve those odds, you have to engage with the changing environment and incorporate it into your worldview, not retreat into a reactionary nostalgia that worked in a world that no longer exists.

  21. You know, I got a dose of loss of dignity yesterday. My mom had an MS attack. She had been driving around for hours with no memory. She couldn’t even remember her own phone number.

    She was sort of ambulatory, but getting her down four flights of stairs seemed like something I should do with help. I called 911 and the ambulance came. They didn’t even help me guide her down.

    When I got to the emergency room to see if my mom was okay, I was immediately told to leave. I protested, but I knew what they’d do if I had refused.

    I have to be with her when she is admitted to the hospital. That way, we can all plan treatment together, and they’ll have a harder time trying to take advantage of her. I had told the nurse that I had details pertinent to her condition. They just hurried me out anyway and sent an intern to talk to me.

    I’ve just found out that they’re orderering more tests even though she’s already had what she needs. Moreover, she’s totally better.

    But my mom is a high trust boomer. She needs me there to defend her. Of course that’s nonessential now because of this stupid bullshit. These people have a false sense of moral authority — with critical assists from social media and other psyop revulsions. It’s hard to deal with them.

    I want the old way back. A time when I wouldn’t be ushered out of the emergency room like a hobo instead of someone’s son. And they giddily go along with the sabotage of our customs. What the hell is being done to us.

  22. I’m speaking as a Protestant on this. As little dignity as our country has left, it still has a hell of a lot more than a lot of Catholic countries, where stray dogs roam the streets crapping everywhere, pickpockets roam the train stations and a general culture of permissiveness is the rule. Attitudes towards petty crime, personal standards, and little public morality are quite sad. If what this guy said is true, Catholic countries should at least retain some thin patina of the previous virtues. There is another ((religion)) that one could say is far more responsible for mass marketing lack of dignity, if you want to go down that road. This whole thing rings hollow. Also, Protestantism isn’t even the same as it was when this country was founded. It was much more reformed than it is today. It’s the reformed side of Protestantism, recognizing that all men are fallen, that created political checks and balances in the first place. This was shoved aside during the conceited awakening of the 1820s-40s. It was prosperity itself that created the situation we’re in, too many people who had it handed to them in the driver seat.

  23. “…the horror of unrestrained self-indulgence…”

    That explains the rise of fascism right there. Right after WW1 came the economic despair. Then the “Roaring Twenties” ignited the degeneracy Zman refers to. Then came the Great Depression and the hangover effects. Is it any wonder many of us mourn the defeat of Imperial Germany in 1918? Kenneth Clark stated that a certain modicum of wealth was always positive for society, but that great wealth always tended to exert a destructive effect. He was on to something. And so is Zman.

    • “great wealth always tended to exert a destructive effect.”

      During the Roaring Twenties, a million American farm families were at or near starvation level. The roaring was in the cities.

  24. At root, human beings are coarse and covetous creatures. Dignity is not a part of human nature. Rather, dignity must be created and maintained by society in the duty-bound hierarchical structure Z describes. However, the natural tendency is to cast off dignity in favor of debauchery. Only a complex system of taboos and incentives prevents this demotion. Alas, postmodern liberal democracy, with its dispersion of wealth–and purchasing power–to the grubby masses, its absurdly capacious franchise (with the attendant diffusion of political power), and its cultural relativism, destroys hierarchy, duty, taste and shame. Dignity then becomes a fusty, old-fashioned notion adhered to by Sam the Eagle, Waldorf and Statler. And, subject to withering satire, its vestiges can be driven before the winds of hedonistic license.

  25. I put the face mask on top of my wife’s head, to lead into an anecdote that went like this:

    When I was a kid I lived in a Jewish neighborhood for a few years. So I went to a few bar mitzvah. And when I showed up, there was the kid’s Dad or uncle, handing me a yarmulke. When I would put my hand up, “nah” was my usual phrase then, I would be told, “you haff to wear it.” To my usual second “nah”, “everyone ees!”

    “Nope”. And walk in I would, even as a teen, I was not wearing the stupid looking beanie.

    Then, the mother of my friend across the street, a nerdy kid that went on to become a Manhattan attorney, had this great outreach idea. I could “go to temple with them and see what it is like…”


    Never went to their temple. And that was when our church was in throes of the hippie guitar singing girl at Mass. Not like I was looking forward to every Sunday morning.

    Same kid goes on to become an attorney. Graduates law school, moves back in with his parents. Stays in his room for a long while, “depressed” he couldn’t find a job. Down the road, marries a pushy school teacher, nice Jewish girl. Some years later, I own a business, I hire the staff lawyers. His bride gets wind of this, and starts calling me to hire her husband. Calls and calls. Her mother in law talks to my mother. I tell bridezilla, “have him call me…”

    Shy guy never calls. But his wife does until I just stop taking her calls and she gets the message. Like I am hiring a depressed lawyer.

    So just recently, I look the guy up. He’s some middle of the firm lawyer in a NYC firm. Although he is a year younger than me, I show his photo to my mother at a family get together (when those were still allowed). She literally gasps. Dude never had kids, looks old enough to be my father.

    Moral of the story? Hey, fuck you if you don’t enjoy a good story from the Occupied Territory of New York!

  26. The root of liberal democracy’s malignancy is egalitarianism. The egalitarian stance is contrary to reality and toxic to the common good. It drives pity and compassion from the public consciousness and replaces them with contempt for others and indifference to their plight. I cannot be persuaded to celebrate that which I loathe; so inevitably I must be forced to do so.

  27. Thought-provoking topic. Here is a famous quote, possibly on-topic, from a movie I’ve not downloaded ahem 😎 seen, “The Third Man”: “In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder, bloodshed. They produced Michaelangelo, da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, five hundred years of democracy and peace, and what did they produce? The cuckoo clock.”

    • what did they produce? The cuckoo clock.”

      And the richest, safest society in the world, the only democracy that actually seems to work – and a multi-ethnic democracy to boot.

      Also, the peace is a result of a robust armed neutrality. The Germans stayed out of Switzerland for many reasons, but one of them was that the Swiss were prepared for a German invasion, their mountain redoubt riddled with tunnels, bunkers, fortified gun emplacements and underground airplane hangars, and they responded aggressively to both German and Allied incursions in their airspace.

      Today, Switzerland has underground nuclear bunkers sufficient to house the entire population, with provisions to last them two years.

    • I’d rather be Swiss than Italian and so would most Italians – from the Renaissance to today. There’s a grain of truth in your “agonistic” argument but it can’t bear the weight of the chaff.

        • Apple-orange ackshually.

          Italy is Italy b/c Italians first and foremost, as with the Swiss.

          Nevertheless, my comment was aimed at the over-simplified cherry-picking in that quote praising the Italians and poor-mouthing the Swiss, particularly giving Italy credit for the entire Renaissance and reducing Swiss achievement to the cuckoo clock.

          Meme’s reply captures the essence better than I did.

          Beyond the genetic semi-determinism that we both seem to agree on, what is it that you’re saying?

    • I’ve represented the Swiss government and Swiss companies for nearly twenty years. I used to visit Switzerland quarterly, not sure how that will go in futura.

      I observe that even though the Swiss enjoy an inanely-high quality of life in their homeland, almost no other nation has a higher percentage of its native population living as expats. My former business partner is Swiss, and he served in the Swiss Army as a sniper — lotsa cool photos and remnants of an expended hand grenade. He resided in Switzerland for twenty years and the US and Brazil for thirty.

      Norwegians are comparable in terms of wealth and expat status. I think the effects of abundance are very interesting when played out in lifestyle decisions.

      • I observe that even though the Swiss enjoy an inanely-high quality of life in their homeland, almost no other nation has a higher percentage of its native population living as expats.

        The Swiss have the largest per capita number of international corporations in the world. Pretty impressive for a land-locked nation.

        I think the effects of abundance are very interesting when played out in lifestyle decisions.

        Some guy once noted that the British used their surplus wealth on military orchestras, every school able to field a band attired in spotless, quality uniforms and with a small fortune worth of brass, pipes and drums.

        The Norwegians use theirs on roads: you rent a cabin in the middle of nowhere for a bit of cross-country skiing, you drive on pristine blacktop almost all the way to your doorstep, and at 4 AM, you’re awakened by a train of snowplows, just in case any of the 12 people living in the county needs to go to the fishmonger at 6 AM.

        The Danes use it on churches: go to mass in any little out-of-the way prayer house, and you’ll see only 4-5 people attending service, but an astounding display of superb carpentry, masonry, brasswork and plasterwork, everything carved, joined, fitted, gilded, polished and varnished by expert craftsmen.

        Never been to Switzerland but by the videos and photos, it looks to me like they spend it on their homes and public buildings: every house looks like it’s just had a top-to-bottom renovation.

  28. This is what Christianity is all about. Isn’t it ironic that we throw it away just when we need it most? I find myself a discarded artifact of neoliberalism in the modern family: I was exiled when I refused to drink the koolaid, and bow down to the elderly hippies, the socialists and the homosexuals in our progressive families. As you say, I dared to notice things and wasn’t satisfied with the answers I got – and was eventually exiled.

    The experience left me hurt, angry and bitter. I began to question EVERYTHING I’d been taught in the hive and one day, my wife dragged me into her church, kicking and screaming. I was promptly given a bible and I thought – why not? I’ll read it, make the right noises in church, and get my wife off my back.

    I was astonished when I discovered my Maker, right under my nose, right in broad daylight. There was not ONE bad thing I found in the bible. I learned that most of the morons that hate it and quote from it do so dishonestly and incorrectly. There is dignity, grace, and purpose in it – which is why the neoliberals and degenerates hate it. One of their greatest victories, and one of our greatest defeats – was when they undermined our faith. We let them do it too: somehow, the church took the boot up the arse for the kiddie-diddling priests instead of the gay community. Figure that one out….? Joe Biden is a pedo and a rapist and the shitlibs couldn’t care less. Epstein runs Pervert Island for decades, finally gets arrested, and murdered before he can talk in broad daylight in a max security cell – and it’s a public joke. You can’t run a country like this, never mind a state, or a community or even a family.

    If the dissidents are looking for a way forward with something they can do right now (and doesn’t involve picking up a gun) – pick up a bible. Read it and study it. That thing can restore us once the neoliberals fall – and they WILL fall.

    Sooner, rather than later…

  29. For readerly types, The Eloi in The Time Machine and the Land of the Lotus Eaters in The Odyssey are extremely vivid warnings about the demoralizing (in every sense of the word) effects of plenty.

    Of course real-life examples are practically endless.

  30. I think television was a big part of the turn towards atomization, anomie, and degeneracy.

    It instantly de-localized entertainment and information. Suddenly our entertainment and information came from far away, by strangers who didn’t necessarily like us or have our best interests at heart.

    Plus people stopped going to clubs, pubs, bowling alleys, or just the neigbor’s house, and instead starting becoming passive couch potatoes at home.

    I actually read the ginormous Bowling Alone in my salad years, and the TL;DR basically is: “TV did it.”

    • To take a step back from that: TV has been a part of our daily lives since the 1950’s. This means no one under 80 can remember a world before it, and no one under 100 functioned as an adult in a world in which it didn’t exist.

      To ever move beyond TV would require us to LARP as a society we never knew; as if the humans from “Beneath the Planet of the Apes” took the Statue of Liberty, dug it up, and put it back onto the pedestal.

      • The interesting thing is that the internet is replacing TV for a lot of people, and its effects are hard to predict so early in the game.

  31. I will need to read this one again because it seems flawed in its premise. Dignity, as we always have understood it, is an inherent trait that is part and parcel of the individual. Whether liberal democracy and the society it has spawned recognize dignity is irrelevant. If everyone is expected to follow suit and also not recognize an individual’s dignity, it still does not deprive the person of their individual dignity. As example would be a dissident in the old USSR who maintained his dignity despite almost universal condemnation.

    I again need to re-read because this probably was addressed and I missed it.

    • Dignity, as we always have understood it, is an inherent trait that is part and parcel of the individual.

      Absolutely not. Some people display dignity, others do not. There is nothing inherent about it.

      • No disagreement. I wrote sloppily that implied a universality I agree isn’t there. Still thinking through the main premise.

  32. Excellent post.

    It’s all part of post-Modernism’s war on Western society via Marxism promoted through our universities.. PoMO put simply posits a disqualified universe. IOW one with no qualitative distinctions. or value judgements. And when a Western male dares make a value judgement about say a tranny, he gets destroyed by the PoMo Marxists for deviating from the new orthodoxy.

    Just consider it another part of the war on Western civilization to tear it down once and for all.

        • I blame Calvin’s funders.

          The guy was 23, shows up in Geneva with a treatise as credentials, gets kicked out.

          Shows back up again at 26, and goes on to organize, fund, and direct the Protestant- Catholic Wars, a genocidal brother war.

          (And the war on witches- he was determined to kill every woman with red hair and green eyes, as well as “beat the Hell out of every child”.)

          A kid, a nobody of uncertain provenance.
          Who was he working for?
          Perhaps, the same ethnic that organized Islam and then Communism to enslave Christians?

          • And before detractors moan, “but Muslims hate Jews!”- yeah, and Shia hate Sunni so much, they intermarry all the time.

            Before 1948, Arabic was the primary language of Jews. Arab Islam came from the early Jewish evangelical outreach, because the Euros wouldn’t buy it.

            The sons of Ishmael are also Abraham’s seed, sealed in blood in an irrevocable Covenant to rule the world.
            Irrevocable, can’t be taken back, or lost, or change His mind- despite Heretic propaganda, which they ignore anyway.

            Joseph’s brothers hated him too.
            And together he and they brought down mighty Egypt, the ruling power in the world.

      • I remember the degenerate jean billboard advertisements. Also he was Jewish. Definitely the beginning of the downfall.

  33. Highly recommend The Demon in Democracy. The Captive Mind by Czeslaw Milosz is a really good pertinent book also. Beautifully written.

  34. Z-man calls it the loss of dignity. I call it the loss of courage. No doubt it is both as they go hand in hand.

    As Orwell made clear in 1984, the inner party wants to humiliate and crush the spirit of the common man. The dignified man of courage must be the ultimate enemy of the ruling elite. Crush him!

    Those of us who believe that Satan is running the world see the same thing. It is the ruling class working through the State that has created the soy-boy culture that has no real men left. Or, so few that they hardly count.

    The culture is degeneracy every where you look. The people are beaten. Look around you at the current madness. They really believe the crap being fed them in the media daily. Z posts all the time about his various theories of how we got here and he always has a point. But we are here and we are not going to vote ourselves out of this hell hole we find ourselves in.

    • As Orwell made clear in 1984, the inner party wants to humiliate and crush the spirit of the common man.


      One of the most haunting (and least commented upon) themes, is Winston’s belief that salvation lies in the proles. He starts to ask proles about what life was like in England before the Party. One of the proles relates an incident with a toff being toffish to him, and the prole called him nasty words in return.

      Winston concludes that there has always been an upper class, but what he, tragically, fails to notice, is that the prole could be rude to his betters with no consequences at all, allowing him to salvage a bit of his dignity. The prole tells him about what freedom was like, but he’s unable to even recognize it.

  35. My first thought beyond – how does Z Man daily come up with such profundity – was the statement generally attributed Voltaire: “to learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise”.

    ZMan writes: “the great flourishing of liberal democracy in the 20th century gave us Brutalism and dribbles of pain on canvas”. Pehaps ‘pain’ was a typo, and was supposed to be ‘paint’, but either one is an apt description. Too pedantic?

  36. Perhaps another good contrast with the West would be with the newly developed liberal Asian nations like South Korea, Japan, and Singapore. They don’t have the same amount of degeneracy, and drugs are not allowed, but there is still no great modern Asian art being produced and fertility has plummeted to the lowest rates in the world. Something like 40% of Japanese men under the age of 40 are virgins, but there’s hentai EVERYWHERE. I think that another factor in all of this is the advent of artificial communications in the forms of social media and porn.

    Another commenter mentioned capitalism creating the cheapest possible facsimile for everything. I think that is partially true. Capitalism tends to produce the *most profitable* facsimile of everything. It has been proven that thrifty households don’t produce much profit. But when you split up the family? Porn and dolls for the men, social media and vibrators for women: a few people at the top can and do make a killing off both the products and the data gathered. And that is purely from the replacement of relationships alone! It’s like Z said: everyone is working purely in their own interest, so those with the power have no scruples in fucking everyone else over for another nickel on the dollar. And as most people get more awkward, fat, and autistic, they are more and more chained to the platforms controlled by those at the top for any sort of validation or relationship. Finally, you get people degrading themselves and everything else in all sorts of ways (simping, InstaThots, Jake Paul in the suicide forest, etc.) for attention. “Here’s a hilarious 10-hour video of a clown boot stamping on my face: smash that MF like button.”

  37. Liberal democracy has at least three inherent flaws that lead to, well, here.

    1. Suffrage expansion that eventually includes women.
    2. Small cohesive groups eventually gain overwhelming power over the general population. (In our case, Jews.)
    3. Wealth creation alleviating most scarcity.

    Let’s start with women. Women are wonderful in their natural roles (far better on average than men), but as a group, are awful in the role of logical, long-term thinking. Women are far more emotional and empathetic, which, again, is perfect for raising families and building communities. But it leaves them open to emotional manipulation as the picture of one drowned boy causing Europe to let in a million Muslim men shows.

    Women also are biologically designed to fear exclusion from the tribe as life or death. So long as they don’t fear any immediate (“immediate” being the key word) damage to themselves or their family, women will – by their nature – want as open and accepting a society as possible because it means there’s less chance of them or their families getting kicked out of the clan of the cave bear, which 10,000 years ago meant death.

    Without the men of their tribe showing the women why letting in foreigners is dangerous to the women and their children, women won’t fear it.

    Second, small, cohesive groups can gain power by voting as blocks and/or buying off politicians. In our case, Jews have taken control of vast portions of our politics. Other groups (the Irish in some cities come to mind) also have done this over the years, but no group is as skilled as the Jews. Kudos to them. They’re just playing the game as designed.

    Whatever your feeling toward Jews (I hate what they’re doing to our people, but I don’t take it personally, it’s just business.), they have an agenda. (And, no, there is no Jewish cabal. It’s just individuals and/or small groups acting independently but with similar goals.) Jews want as open and accepting a society as possible. They also want as many identity groups as possible so they don’t stick out.

    Think of all of those other racial, ethnic, religious and sexual groups as buffer kingdoms. Before you go after Jewland, you have to go through Muslimland, Beanerland, Fagland and Trannyland.

    Finally, there is the wealth that liberal democracies seem so good at creating. That lack of scarcity makes everyone lose their edge. They have something to lose. Even the poor have something to lose. You didn’t get great welfare benefits in Europe in the Middle Ages. People are willing to put up with a lot of silliness because they’ve got food on the table and sportsball on TV.

    By design, liberal democracy will fail. However, it’s takes a long time.

    • Citizen, your takes are so consistently solid, why don’t you start your own blog? Shame that they’re consigned to comments sections.

      You can get up and running on WordPress in literally half an hour.

      • Maybe. But in truth, I agree with Z on 90%+, and he’s read about 1,000 more books that I have, so not sure what I’d bring to the party.

        Even today where I seemingly disagree with Z about the role of Jews, I probably wouldn’t write that way if it was my own blog. You have different considerations when you’re the project manager.

        That said, I am seeing a void growing out there for our type. You have the delusional Spencer types who are a LARPing joke. But, more importantly, the respected old guard like Sailer aren’t pivoting as the world changes. They seem stuck in the past, content to argue with David Brooks and snicker behind the bully’s back.

        What we need now – and Z writes about this a lot – is looking at how to move forward, to build communities, to recruit in world that will do anything to stop us for doing that.

        That’s how we win. We need more people writing about those issues, and I’m not sure that I’m that guy.

        • I’m late to the party on this one but Citizen, you nailed it with “how to move forward, to build communities, to recruit in world that will do anything to stop us for doing that.”
          It took a while to realize “my people” are few and far between. And specifically locally. Cautious exploration has gotten me no where. As this tension I feel about the trend of things grows, I’m about ready to throw caution to the wind and hang out a damn flag….
          We know the ills, we know the players, we speculate on the cure. How to find the tribesmen, that’s my question. I’m ready for some input…

    • Citizen, check out, the article on the Communist Party of Great Britain. The women in these photos (and their paste eating fellow traveler so-called “men”) are what we have been up against all along. Not much going for them, obviously, and seduced by promises of gibs for all. We live with the long term consequences of this sort of thing.

  38. Z Man said: ” The great flourishing of liberal democracy in the 20th century gave us Brutalism and dribbles of pain on canvas. The new century promises us primitives exposing themselves on the internet. ”

    Hahaha! ” …dribbles of pain on canvas. ” 😂 Best type-o I’ve seen in a long time.
    But seriously. I kept wondering what would be the next “lifestyle choice” to come down the conveyor belt of social engineering, demanding full legal rights. Now I know. It’s polygamy. I’m seeing more and more tear-jerking articals moaning about the tribulations of being in a ” multi-partner relationship. ” And so it goes.

    • That was one of those accidentally on purpose typos. I saw it, laughed and then decided to leave it.

  39. The Miss Havisham of old always had some tragic circumstance – she fell through the cracks during life. Cat ladies of today are mass produced by the academy and are defective from the moment they leave the factory.

  40. I think of the fate of the American Indian as something similar to our fate in the 21st century.
    Before European civilization arrived the Indian lived in a sort of free state where his living depended on the male hunting skills.
    Alcohol dependence was unknown because there was no alcohol.
    Strangers with technology and unknown vices could not replace him because there were no European strangers.
    His civilization was not easy and there were wars between tribes but it was his civilization.
    I tend to think it’s the combination now of strangers and our own technology that undermine our psychic.
    The loss of traditional Christianity as a moral compass is a result of the way in which we have embraced the new technology and also determined that the new populations coming our way are relatively harmless.
    The American Indian loved the white man’s technology and the American Indian did not take seriously enough the ability of the white man to over run his civilization.
    Sort of like how we have let our children embrace our own new modern technology with gusto while we spend little time with them and send them to schools hostile to our values and at the same time we have also determined that the new arrivals are not all that dangerous to us.
    The new technology and its altars in Hollywood and Facebook and social media bring with it a new religion that undermines the traditional morals of our traditional Christian civilization.
    And those arrivals will replace us.
    Not sure we can do anything about it in small numbers?
    Dissident politics is a small affair.
    Some Indians realized what was happening to them and they held out as long as they could.
    Now their descendants live on reservations.
    That might be our best outcome.
    Finding some small reservations in this world somewhere.

    • Like the white man during the time of the American Indian, the immigrants from the third world keep coming, year after year, in massive numbers, and never ending. Like the American Indian, the white man is in big trouble.

      • And, the average white man is simply unable to comprehend *just how many* of them are crammed into South Asia, Latin America, and now Africa.

        There are 23 million whites in canada. 1.4 billion live in India alone. We’re not even a fraction of their size. Yet the average white smiles happily at the new Indian family down the street – after all, our ancestors were immigrants too! They will continue to pour in until we no longer exist.

        The tragedy of the white man is that he is going down without a fight. The feather Indians fought for centuries in north America – and mixed with a large number of the conquistadores down south. There ain’t gonna be the Cleveland crakkas team because we weren’t even vanquished after a long and hard fight.

    • “Finding some small reservations in this world somewhere.”

      Never forget what they have taken- but worse, what we strove, and fought for, and took millennia to build- we gave it away.

      We fricking GAVE it away.
      They should have paid, paid through the nose, trembling in adoration, fear, and abject gratitude for what crumbs we allowed at ruinous price.

    • The crucial difference in this otherwise black-pilled analogy is our numbers. Relative to those who seek to displace us*, we’re much more numerous than the feather Indians (many of which were White-mixed, particularly in the East – by the Colonial Era).

      Our main problems are awareness and organization, not population. The first two can be fixed in the short to mid-term. Without enough Whites in general, it would be almost impossible to gain ground. We’re not there yet.

      * It’s not 200 million Whites vs. the World, I’m talking inside our own nations. We’re not so wide open (yet) that Browns are simply invading us in their world-superior numbers.

  41. As Belloc pointed out in “Europe and the Faith,” Protestantism took root largely in the area of Europe to which the Roman Empire had not extended, the major exception being Britain. Bavaria and Northeastern France remained Catholic, while those genetically similar to the Northeast became Protestant. Sweden and Norway had been Catholic only a short time before going Protestant. Now in this faithless age, ex-Protestant and ex-Catholic alike are being replaced mainly due to low birth rates, with the invaders coming in and taking the places of the children the Europeans never had.

    • They too stop having kids after a while and become secularized. Turks and others in Germany are near the fertility same rate as natives only with a slightly more natal population.

      Ultimately though, the more citified people become the less kids they will have. Its the natural consequences of cramming millions of people into a tiny space.

      Humans have a social carrying capacity and anyone you’d want as a citizen is going to limit urban fertility. I’m also not certain we can affords to pay people enough to goose up fertility much simply because most labor is not of great value and that level of enough wages might just end up with inflation eating up the gains.

      OTOH if we control growth nuts and “big” everything enough to make our societies more homogeneous and close them off , we can allow our population to decline to a healthy level and it will stabilize.

  42. Maybe western liberal democracy isn’t western. An ideological pandemic, let’s say. It’s contagious, culturally lethal, and some seem resistant to it.

    Somebody (apologies don’t recall who) on here talks about living through a genetic bottleneck. The survivors will adapt and overcome. It fits!

  43. There is a Seinfeld episode where for whatever reason, people think that Jerry and George are a gay couple. Each time Jerry and George explain that they’re not gay, they add, “not that there’s anything wrong with that.”

    They can get away with showing reruns, but a television show couldn’t make that joke today (and this was only back in the 90’s.) Today it is a gross violation of official dogma to even imply that there may be people out there who think that there is “something wrong with that.” Mere acceptance of homosexuality is heresy. Today we are required to be positively worshipful.

      • Maybe. At the time it was just a comical portrayal of the kind of vapid narcissists that inhabit NYC. A show where the normals laughed at them and their meaningless lives.

        • At the time it was just a comical portrayal of the kind of vapid narcissists that inhabit NYC.

          No, it wasn’t. That was just its outward form. What it was was a targeted normalization of vapid narcissism. It spawned so much imitation in popular culture — double-dipping, “talk to the hand,” “close talker,” on and on and on.

          It taught people to imitate the characters on Seinfeld.

          Certainly, some of the attitudes expressed then are forbidden now. That’s just a function of the ratchet effect over the decades since. Like all the other popular culture, Seinfeld was ratcheting things in one direction only when it aired.

          You have to learn to differentiate between the outward forms of things and their actual functions.

          • “It taught people to imitate the characters on Seinfeld.”
            People love to imitate characters in most TV or movies.. most people don’t really have any authentic personality of their own, so they graft one on, using characters as templates. Pretending to be (if only momentarily when the need arises) Rocky Balboa, or the Terminator, or Groucho or Chico, or Emily Litella. We put on skins of characters because we have nothing real inside anymore.
            The worst part is that the writers, directors and producers are latent psychopaths and sociopaths, not moral and uplifting people.

          • Perhaps, but when I watched Seinfeld, I found not one of the characters imitative or a desirable role model. They were funny because the were losers, stumbling meaninglessly through life. They were so pathetically broken, that you could not be sympathetic so they could only be laughed at. But that’s just me. Perhaps others of a different persuasion would use them as role models, but why is beyond me. Not a single character I can remember on the show was worth imitating in that they were anything close to successful and happy.

          • Just had an awful thought. All us dirt people are standing in line waiting for our soup handout. And then, our betters from behind the counter scream: no sou….well you know the rest

      • Agreed, Vizzini. Things have gotten so bad that what was a great victory for degeneracy not too long ago is now insufficiently degenerate to pass muster.

        • Once upon a time, all the Norman Lear TV shows — M*A*S*H, All in the Family, the Jeffersons, etc., were outposts of leftist propaganda. Now they seem quaintly normie, conservative, even, in some respects.

          • That stuff was called programming for a reason.

            In the end, a hypothetical DR society is going to have to deal with the cultural issues of degeneracy and just what is to be allowed in mass culture and what is not.

            The obvious and most difficult example is porn. Almost everyone uses it all the time even though it is more destructive than good (good, lower rape– bad, degeneracy) and how it is to be dealt with.

            If the “spirit of liberty” wind, nothing will be done, if “revolt lite” wins, nothing and if “law as written wins” , nothing while common law allowed the regulation of the material, the moral culture that eschewed it is long gone.

            This isn’t Christendom and if you want it gone it means imposing your will on a lot o people.

            You may have to go full Lind or full Covington against considerable opposition, i.e basically everybody.

            It can be done, requiring 10% of the people to be all in but comes at a hefty cost.

            There’s no easy mode. For now though, learn to organize and learn to act for a collective goal . Otherwise you are just wasting everyone’s time time.

      • In spite of myself, I like Seinfeld and some other forms of degeneracy, like the band Kiss. Even Elvis. I do my best to improve.

        As Rush’s Neil Peart wrote, “We fight the fire while we’re feeding the flame.”

        In Covington’s novels, he imagines a time after our victory when the young people lecture the old about their degeneracy and none of them can imagine why a woman would become a lesbian.

        • It’s a pretty old Biblical message, one of the oldest, that sin is very alluring and pleasant.

          If evil was all about drowning puppies and beating babies, hardly anyone would succumb to it.

          • Amusingly there is a roleplaying game called Kill Puppies for Satan where you play these sorts of losers , essentially Beevis and Butthead as Satanists.

            It gets your point across perfectly.

            No one would want to live in a excessively moral society and nor would such a society have much reason to build much of anything. Why bother? Everyone would be on their knees day and night earning points for the afterlife.

            That earthly society where sin was always caught and punished would be a dent approximation of hell.

            The trick is to leave a functional core intact and make sure that the default path is a stable extended family, strong work ethic and basic decency and and honesty.

            More importantly it cannot be achieved with a boot on necks. It must be for the most part voluntary.

            How the DR drags everyone else there is the real challenge because just as you said, that kind of stability isn’t fun.

          • Everyone would be on their knees day and night earning points for the afterlife.

            “So don’t be vain and don’t be whiny
            Or else, my brother, I might just have to get medieval on your heinie”

            The Gospel According to Weird Al.

            I have to disagree. The idea that an “excessively” (I’m not sure how one defines excessive there) moral society would be a boring, oppressive or unpleasant one is part of the big lie: “Come serve Satan! We have cookies!”

            The more legitimately moral a society is, the better a place it is to live.

            The societies that people think of as “excessively moral,” say the Puritans, weren’t really very moral at all, because they were rife with envy and lust for power over others.

            It’s also probably true that very moral societies are not pleasant for very immoral people, but nobody who doesn’t like moral societies likes to think of it in those terms.

            There is no paradise on Earth, nor are Christians instructed to create one. One presumes heaven will be extremely, but not excessively, moral, but it won’t look like human-built societies.

            because just as you said, that kind of stability isn’t fun.

            Did I say that? I think you are making a binary assumption.

          • Good Weird Al catch there.

            People in modernity are not religious or moral enough on many fundamental issues for a high morality state. Many are fine with abortion, don’t care about pre marital sex, do not think that homosexuality is evil , like porn, don’t want to marry I could go on.

            Europe is even more liberal on many of those social issues.

            In order to force those people, very possibly the majority of them to be moral you need a big state and to arrest , imprison and very possibly kill non compliant people.

            Basically you become Iran or Saudi Arabia and neither Iran nor Saudi Arabia both highly religious Abrahamic though Islamic nations are pleasant to live in as keeping the people moral requires a police state.

            The Amish communities are also highly moral and those are not pleasant places to live. Same with the Ultra Orthodox Jews and so on.

            You don’t have the people for the society you want period . You can change the public views the same as the Left did over time but the natural process of modernity is Leftist.

            As the NrX likes to point out, Cthulhu always swims left.

            So you can choose, freedom or enforced religious order and you cannot have both.

            My guess is that you will have to limit how much freedom you take to prevent your own men and the rest of the heavily armed and blooded population from rebelling.

            Optionally you control a small amount of territory populated by like minded folks than expand out.

            And yes if you are a Pence style moralist, it sucks but the only thing you can do is set an example and over many many years shift the culture as you can, if you can.

          • The Amish communities are also highly moral and those are not pleasant places to live.

            Have you ever lived in one? How would you know?

            As for the rest about how modern people aren’t suitable for a high morality state, I reiterate my previous comment:

            There is no paradise on Earth, nor are Christians instructed to create one.

            I didn’t say I was invested in creating a high morality state, I was just disagreeing about whether high morality states are unpleasant.

            All you did was agree with my other statement:

            Very moral societies are not pleasant for very immoral people.

            God’s documented methods for dealing with larges masses of immoral people are pretty spectacular. I’ll leave it to him.

          • Keep in mind here that almost no one in Europe is Christian and that most Americans are jack Christians.

            Society benefits the majority of people , few of us wish to LARP 1689 or be riddled with numerous commandments and taboos thank you very much. A basic pragmatic moral system will suffice.

            Also there is not point in arguing about what Jehovah will or will not do with non believers and this includes me.

            There was shocking lack of divine intervention on a massive scale in the 20th century and I doubt we’ll get any more.

            That said I can’t name a single high morality state that has every existed and been pleasant to live in historically .

            Theoretically a Christian society could meet the muster, something I doubt other religion could do but this has yet to happen and the times we think of as highly religious either weren’t or we unpleasant.

            Logical as hardship amplified faith.

          • I’m not interested in making people “moral”, I am interested only in that they don’t make me and mine “immoral”. That means that their immorality is never accepted, nor normalized, in the greater society.

            The game plan with these people has always been to move society from intolerance, to tolerance, to acceptance, to normality, to celebration, to civil right. Defining deviancy down as has been said by Patrick Moynihan.

          • I do not disagree with a word you said. Its not going to be easy though I suspect the inevitable whirlwind whose seeds were are sowing will be good in general for the freedoms of the faithful.

    • You’re right, today Jerry and George wouldn’t be allowed to object to being thought of as gay, even with the “not that there’s anything wrong with that” added to their objection. If someone thought Jerry and George were gay in a present day sitcom, they would have to portray it with about the same concern as if someone mistakenly thought they were left-handed or that they prefer white wine over red wine.

      • Explains the lack of anything funny on TV. Look at the top 3 Sitcoms right now:
        1. Young Sheldon – set in 1980’s Texas, so you can joke about things back then instead of now.
        2. The Neighborhood – a cucky white guy in a black neighborhood, jokes are about what a pussy he is.
        3. Mom – a bunch of alcoholic women – off color jokes are excused because they are “in recovery”.

        You have to have an alibi to make a joke now.

        • This is why anime is so popular among younger men now.

          The stories are un-POZed, the journeys heroic, and the gender dynamics normal.

          • Full disclosure – I hate anime. That said, with “ackshually” exceptions on gender-bending and soy-boy memes, anime is less degenerate than Western alternatives like comics and vidya.

            It’s telling that something so foreign to American sensibilities and aesthetics is front-running our (((native))) product nowadays.

            The dogs really don’t like Wokie-chow.

          • No one does. Naughty Dog, a very good game developer famous for the Z-Poc game “The Last of Us” went so woke on the sequel than 70% of the games dev staff quit.

            Woke only functions when its adherents cram it down and in a market where other ideas are limited. Hence the heavy handed attempts at censorship.

            That said censorship per say isn’t wrong for example we justly censor child porn

            On the political angle keeping evil away from mush brained kids is important. Unless you are the parent teaching Leftist swill to under 21’s probably should be a crime in a DR state as its essentially grooming.

            Once you are an adult? Not my problem.

          • Anyone downvoting Ab on this – Styx lolberts who think porn is a right or why exactly? LoU sucks that bad?

    • There’s a humorous upside: In The Dambusters, the protagonist has a dog named Nigger. At some point, he gets a phone call, talks for a few seconds and puts down the receiver, making sadface.

      “So what was that?” a friend asks.

      “Nigger got run over by a car.”

      Has me in stitches every time; and if not for the language police, that line would never be funny.

      • I’ve listened to a few history podcasts re: the Dambusters. Each one gave a trigger warning when mentioning Wing Commander Gibson’s Labrador retriever. (FWIW, I believe he later regretted the civilian carnage that resulted from that particular operation.)

      • You jogged my noggin’. I watched The Dambusters as a kid and recall telling ma, “they just said the N word!”

        I often order a cocktail named a “negroni.” You should see the reaction of other patrons in a crowded bar.

    • Tolerance, when deployed by a Leftist, means worshiping what you rightly abhor, or else…

  44. Funny how the academic named in the piece chooses to blame a religious group – one for whom “turn the other cheek” is a part of their moral code.

    Funny how said religious group had prosperous and orderly lands until a certain other religious group showed up (after being kicked out of 109 other countries).

    Funny how this academic won’t name the other group.

      • LOL!!!

        Yes, I noticed, MWV. Jews figure prominently in all this but at some point, we have to take the blame for this. It’s us white guys letting the vibrants off their leashes, it’s us guys letting our women make war on us and belittle us, it’s us guys stuffing ourselves with soy and guilt, and then going back to the SJW’s for more.

        We are losing focus. It’s eassy to do, and get distracted by the failures of others. We need to take ownership of ours, and do something constructive about them.

        • I certainly agree – there is a balance to be struck between blaming the tribe for everything and letting them totally off the hook.

          The fact is, we have very little ability to do anything about anything and have not had that ability for quite a long time. The tribe is not the only reason for that, but they are a hell of a lot more than 1% of the reason.

          I seek Pareto Principle solutions – correct the small thing that causes a disproportionate amount of your issues first. The fact that we won’t have utopia afterwards is not reason not to do it.

      • If I taste Jew in my sandwich, it’s because schlomo’s symbols are printed on the labels for each ingredient and I pay for the certification. Oh, and only a small percentage of schlomos keep kosher and they buy their products from other Jews, not the same stuff I purchase.

      • Jews are MSG – tasteless conflict-enhancers in the social sandwich. If we start with good ingredients, we don’t need (((MSG))). Send it back.

      • I’ve eaten “tuna salad” essentially made the same way since I was a very small child. However, about four years ago, or somewhere thereabouts, our DiL introduced a new (to us-to me) ingredient- green olives. The taste of the green olive additive was, as you can imagine, overwhelming to yours truly, kind of like adding anchovies to my pizza (you just don’t do that!). Now, I like green olives fine, but putting them in my tuna salad is … way out there. If you think I’m going to react to the novelty nicely, or without even noticing, you’re crazier’n a loon. The Jew thing is a novelty to a lot of people; no one should ever act surprised when such persons spew the concoction out of their mouths initially.

        • Yes, and we call them wild beasts. For every food category, there is a product sold that is qualitatively superior to a marked Kosher product. All.

    • I recently reviewed again the English civil war.
      We were pretty good at cluster fucking ourselves before the Jews got involved.
      Not saying the usual suspects always have our best intrests in mind.
      They don’t .
      But we have to get a determined mindset for our own civilization and learn to ignore harpy Jews just like we need to ignore bitchy blacks and feminist women.
      We have that ability.
      And I am talking to myself too.

      • Bitchy blacks and feminist women aren’t the brains, organization and money behind the the forces that would destroy your life and my life if we tried to organize.

        I agree that whites need to focus on ourselves and that Jews aren’t some omnipotent force that cause all of our problems. However, to claim that they’re just another group or that we can simply ignore them is disingenuous.

        We win this fight by recruiting, building communities and having a positive identity to offer Joe Normie, not by crying about “the Jews.” But if you think for one second that influential Jews (the Jewish community, if you will) won’t fight us all along the way, you’re a fool.

        You might ignore them, but they won’t ignore you.

        • I agree good points.
          They will fight us.
          But we must have the attitude that we can only defeat ourselves.
          We will win in every circumstance.
          The elephant in the room that we don’t like to think about is that is there may not be enough of us to save anything let alone the entirety of western civilization.

          • They’re aren’t enough of us. We aren’t going to save the entirety of Western Civilization. The best we can hope for is to save a portion and to regrow from better stock.

            This war will be won or lost by our ability to build even a small community capable to protecting itself. What I mean by that is:

            – Businesses willing hire people fired for not being PC
            – Legal organizations with the resources to fight back against the onslaught of eventual lawsuits so individuals don’t go bankrupt. Later, those organizations can even go on the offensive
            – Political organizations that funds politicians and advocacy groups

            (Of course, you’ll notice that this is what every other group already has.)

            If we build this, the war is over, whether people know it or not. We win.

            But I know one group that does understand this. I know one group that – outside of ourselves – is our greatest obstacle to building that community. And I refuse to pretend otherwise.

      • I think it’s also about time to cut off the antisemites who are still talking in circles, allegories, and worse, memes, etc, about the Juden. It’s stupid and vapid. You’re already in this camp, you’re already considered pond scum by your betters, quit circle jerking it and talking like you’re hushing on about some secret cabal. Not referring to you, BTW; speaking in general.

        • Wise person (Zman maybe?) said: the best way to avoid the SJW and their ilk is to just ignore them. Also there is the view, correct in many (most?) cases, that their views are irrational and fixated, and rational argument is unlikely to change it. Just ignore ’em. Pisses them off 🙂

          • And we in the US won’t have another half century to address them. So much for waiting on some projected culture change.

          • “Just ignore them” has been Whitey’s solution to everything for the past 75 years. How’s that worked out?

          • I don’t make arguments to change Jews’ minds about Whites. I make arguments to change Whites’ minds about Jews.

            We ignored them when they bought up our banks & politicians. Then Hollywood, media & schools. How’s that worked out for us?

            Tactically libertarian “just-leave-me-alone-ism” has rendered White Righties socially “plantationed,” their fences patrolled by PC Zio-cops who also control ever step up the ladder in our overly-credentialed, SJW-approved and financialized society.

          • I believe the “just ignore them” statements have most often been used in the context of tactics by which one engages them. As stated above, trying to convince them of the error of their thinking does little but distract you in efforts that might be better spent elsewhere. I’m not sure ignoring them means “let the bastards have their way”.

        • “it’s also about time to cut off the antisemites.”

          If you disagree then refute us.

          To a first approximation, the jews control the media and the media shapes public opinion, therefore, they have a major influence on public opinion and incite degeneracy and anti-white hatred.

          Whites who are influenced by this are partially to blame, but most people are not independent thinkers and must be protected from sick influences.

          Refute me.

      • So sorry, GLG, but the English Civil War was based precisely on letting the Jews get back into, and in control of, our mother country.

        “The wars, the revolutions, it was us, it was always us”

        Nonetheless, I surely appreciate the Z-effort to elevate the discussion beyond the pernicious influence.

        You are right, we had plenty of flaws to work on ourselves. My faith is based on the fact that we can, and did.

        Not one, not one, not any other race abolished torture, or slavery, or tyranny, and thus rose to the heights as we have done.
        We are Sacred.

  45. Reverse last sentence for solution;

    Unless we defend ourselves we’ll have no dignity.

    Of course unless you defend yourself and what yours, unless you defend you and yours and I daresay offend on their behalf you have NOTHING, dignity is only the beginning.

    Now they can be right now beaten, they are few, they are cowards.
    But if we are cowards facing them we lose.

    The loss of dignity is only the preparation for us to become slaves, then dead.

    These are the wages of Civility and Law, and talking when its past talk: Degradation, Slavery, Death.

    I mean what is actually practiced now, not some theory.

    These are the wages of Civility and Law; Degradation, Slavery, Death.

  46. Even so, there does seem to be something else. Liberal democracy has not produced great art or great architecture. The Greeks and Romans left us great things that still inspire the imagination of the man who happens to gaze upon them. The castles and cathedrals of the medieval period still awe us.

    I happened upon one of the crazy modern internet cults the other day in the form of a video that showed a lot of 19th and early 20th century structures and explained how they were a sign that there had been some kind of very recent hidden civilizational collapse and a rewrite of history. I think there may have been aliens involved or something.

    Part of their “evidence” was the surpassing beauty and intricacy of some of the buildings of the period. Their reasoning was along the lines of “This couldn’t possibly have been a post office as the historical record tells us. It’s too intricate. How many stamps would you have to sell to pay for something like that?” or “The Philadelphia City Hall couldn’t possibly have been the Philadelphia City Hall because it is so grand and inspiring!” He believed they were originally some kinds of temples or similar sites of great veneration, but the truth has been concealed from us. Also implicit is the idea that we couldn’t build such beautiful buildings back then, because we don’t build them now.

    What I took away from it is that the people who buy into this have been so degraded by the roughness of the current era they have to find a way to degrade known history, because it makes them feel so inferior in comparison. “The history we know couldn’t have been real, because that would mean that people with far less than us in resources and technology produced such beauty as part of the course of normal human life. And that would mean that we pale in comparison to them.”

    Ah, here it is. Dug it up out of my browser history:

    • It’s the same mentality that says, “We couldn’t possibly have gone to the Moon, because we can’t do it now.” It’s a myopic view that places oneself as the center, alpha and omega of all that is human history and experience. It’s one of our single biggest obstacles.

    • Yes Vizzini, oral and written history was an easy fix. Physical reminders of our civilization’s high achievements, however, are a bit trickier. The aliens bit is a nice touch, but a trip through any curated museum of history reveals their favorite approach: to etch away the “excessive” details those great structures with the acid rain of white man bad. You see, all that beauty and ingenuity was only possible because slaves or oppression or theft from more noble peoples. The moral planer of the modern prog mind virus runs across the landscape, blunting everything into a flat, grey block where you must lower your head and proceed inside to be lectured by a very special person that explains to you how you should find the concrete to be high art, that is, if you desire to be as evolved as the specials.

      • Screwtape, this is of a piece with Leftie’s rewriting of the past, to shape the present and the future. Once I was made aware of this sort of thing, here on this blog, I can see it pop up anytime that Leftie has a hand in anything.

      • De gustibus non disputandem. Concerning tastes there can be no dispute used to be an aphorism encapsulating the attitude of to each his own so go along to get along. Now, of course, it is a diktat that strongly suggests you STFU if your aesthetic judgment differs from that of the Cloud People. Indeed, even egalitarianism is ultimately incoherent because to a Goodthinker all opinions are clearly not equally valid.

    • Priorities. Philly doesn’t have a big subway system because they broke the bank building city hall. I think Kevin Bacon’s dad called it a city of monuments. Maybe it was somebody else idk. They also didn’t have skyscrapers before the 80s because they wanted William Penn to stand over the city. What a great place Philly must’ve been! These days they’re increasingly trying to be the 6th borough. Gross.

      • I used to visit it as a kid with my Dad in the ’70s. It was a tremendously beautiful city then.

        A couple years ago, my oldest daughter was working in Philly and toured many of the same historical sites I toured as a child. All the guides and narratives were so full of “Slavery! White man bad!” she couldn’t stand it. The neighborhoods have really deteriorated, too.

        • how many years of “minority” Democratic rule did it take to ruin it?
          It seems that most of our ruined cities have been governed by Dems for a long time.. Detroit, Philly, Pittsburgh.

          • Lol.

            What’s with all the funny euphemisms for “blacks”?

            No doubt Dem city leadership sucks, and makes white places worse. But… Portland is a hell of alot nicer than Detroit… wonder why.

          • I had this discussion with my office mate the other day — a guy who’s 90% on our side, including racial distinctions. I spoke dismissively about Hannity and he asked why. I brought up the fact that when the discussion turns to the dysfunction of places like Detroit and Baltimore, Hannity will yammer on about how it’s the result of decades of Democratic leadership but he never seems to mention the other thing that those two cities have in common and in abundance. I got a thoughtful silence, which I took as a good sign.

          • “Run by Democrats” is one of Ed Driscoll’s favorite memes (he never tires of it) over at Insty’s. Then you point out both Portlands (ME and OR,) Burlington VT and, for now, Boston MA. Part of it is the weather, of course, but mostly it’s still the other thing. 🙂

          • There were slaves. Phased it out beginning late 18th century I think. George Washington was allowed to keep slaves while he was president.

    • An important aspect of modern architecture is that building big is no big deal. Some Saudi prince just has to wave his checkbook around, and two years later, he has a monument that makes the Parthenon seem puny and insignificant. Architecture has been commodified, that’s why it has been cheapened.

      We could easily build cathedrals and pyramids, but what would be the point? The real wonders of modern architecture are space stations, suspension bridges, deep-sea drilling platforms and particle smashers; constructions that stretch our abilities to the limit.

      The problem is similar with art: after the invention of photography, the market for good painters disappeared: why pay $10,000 for a family portrait, when dad can do one with a $500 camera? And with photoshop, he can even do the small touch-ups like removing moles or wrinkles, shave a few pounds off mommy and correct little Timmy’s crooked teeth – stuff that the artists used to do.

        • Beauty vs. utility.

          The former usually follows the latter. If you can’t see beauty in the Large Hadron Collider – the world’s most powerful microscope – how about these:

          Such is the case, not just for engineering, but also for classical architecture and art. Classical architecture is build to keep the weather out, classical art is made to tell a story or, more mundanely, to produce a facsimile of a person or a landscape.

          Beauty for beauty’s sake usually leads to degeneracy.

          • But the LHC will be disassembled someday. ISS will burn up in reentry. There are museums for paintings but not so much photography. Nothing wrong with utility per se, but if you want something to be valued and preserved, make it beautiful.

          • Sic transit gloria mundi…

            Most cathedrals have been rebuilt several times – usually, only the columns are original, sometimes a few of the walls. And, I suspect, they were not maintained for near a millennium because the were beautiful, but because they served a function.

            Which gives me an excuse to post this absolute gem of a documentary:


          • Notre Dame was modernized in the 18th C., when they put that steeple on the transept – and to be frank, it didn’t add to the building, I would argue, because it was put there for purely aesthetic reasons.

          • Sure. Sometimes you don’t pull it off, especially if it’s forced. Kind of like the minarets around the Hagia Sophia, the Lourve pyramid. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

          • Both of those trains are wonderful in their own way. A present-day MTA/MBTA train or subway car is emblematic of everything wrong in this wretched post-modern world.

          • “A present-day MTA subway car is emblematic of everything wrong in this wretched post-modern world.”

            I dunno, the homeless seem to like them

          • There are forms of beauty that are not for their own sake nor do they follow utility. They don’t occur in the modern world but they were common in traditional high cultures. In Europe and in East Asia in great palaces and especially in temples, churches and cathedrals you will find beautifully crafted works of art built into rooftop structures. Statues, shrines inscriptions, etc. They are in places where no man will see them with the exception of a monk who may sweep off the fall and winter debris. They are not there to inspire religious awe in the faithful. This is man paying homage to something greater than himself to be seen not by man. We’ve lost our faith not only in god but in the wonder of nature. We play lip service to it and engage in little acts that seem thankful…but our utilitarian obsessions with everything deadens our spirit so much so that seeing beyond that has become almost impossible for most. If man is the alpha and the omega great dreams become lesser dreams and we become lesser men.

          • Good point, but I was clever enough to put in a “usually”. That said, I’m not too crazy about statuary on cathedrals. Maybe it’s my Lutheran background, but it’s like painting flames on a Rolls Royce.

            our utilitarian obsessions with everything deadens our spirit

            I don’t believe the two are connected. What deadens our spirit is modern art – art for art’s sake – not our machines. At least, I can’t see the connection myself. A subway train or a car doesn’t offend my sense of beauty or spiritual tranquility like modern art does.

          • Some thing are purely utilitarian in nature others used to have a much more pronounced spiritual resonance. We now throw them all into the same basket. I didn’t mean to imply that a car needs to be something other than a car.

      • Felix, good point. This touches on what I said today (and in the past here) about updating narrative and mythology. Modernity isn’t inherently soulless – we’ve failed to “ensoul” it in our culture.

        There’s a devilish mix of right and wrong-headedness in the reaction vs. progress debate. I come down on the side of “modernity happened – we have to deal with it.”

        That said, there are features of the current implementation of modernity (globalism, consumerism, etc) that would be better replaced by time-tested pre-modern practices like ethno-nationalism and social rather than material-oriented cultures.

        • Modernity isn’t inherently soulless – we’ve failed to “ensoul” it in our culture.

          Just so. I prefer to distinguish between technological modernity and spiritual modernity; I think they’re only loosely connected. Most technologies have a flip side, but that is rarely the fault of technology.

          The internet allows camgirls, prostitution without the stigma, as Ramzpaul pontificated on a day or two back, but the internet is also a vehicle for freedom; when I was young, back in the eighties, an American newspaper moved for no less than $10 and the selection of books must’ve been about one tenth of a percent of what Americans or Brits would have access to.

          I shudder when I think back on the naked, Communist propaganda we were subjected to, not least the casual, ubiquitous anti-Americanism. I can say with no hyperbole, that the rise of the internet has been an almost miraculous epiphany for me.

          • Don’t get me wrong, I think an old XKE is beautiful, a pair of wayfarers has timeless cool. I think modernity skews utility over beauty because of its preference for novelty. If the revolution never ends it’s a waste to put the extra effort into something you know is going to be torn down.

  47. Plenty is a distraction and time consuming. We shatter old bonds in its pursuit.

    Information overload brings with it its own form of illiteracy.

    No focus no depth so planned obsolescence becomes the dominate aesthetic, the blank slate the smorgasbord of life’s choices and stages.

  48. The plan is to copy the ChiComs and replace dignity with social credit scores. We’ll all get to know who the most obedient serfs are.

    • I’m enjoying innocently pointing out to white women how obedient the population has been. Using that word. White women have a negative reaction to that word and I’m enjoying their reactions. Got to take your pleasure where you can right

      • The younger white women have been raised on Disney Princesses, and the big message of (most) of the modern ones is Rebellion. This gives a sense of their thinking.

        Ariel has a whole song about materialism. The ‘counter-song’ to try to keep her there is *also* about materialism! She takes the Witches bargain and pays for it, but of course is saved by a man (her father).

        Belle refuses her place. Jasmine, same thing. Mulan is the first Action Girl.

        The Lion princess in The Lion King is a subversion of this – reminding the Prince of his duty to his people.

        Both Frozen Girls are rebels to some degree. However, again an odd subversion – they have to come to terms with their place and Elsa’s rebellion and fear are why things end up breaking. But all anyone remembers is “Let it Go”.

        Honorable mention goes to Pocahontas and the Gypsy girl. Rapunzel is an odd case where she’s trapped with a very abusive mother, and the Black one kind of ends up in the other direction (which they probably ended up doing to prevent racially-tinged criticism).

        • Almost all of Disney is pure poison. The only 2 movies I can think of that are not fundamentally flawed are the following.

          The Lion King: Evil usurper brings in evil, greedy, stupid foreigners to steal his brother’s throne and exile his nephew all while preaching equality and tolerance for the foreigners. They ruin the kingdom. Eventually the heir returns, exiles the outsiders, kills the traitor, and reestablishes tradition.

          Newsies: Working class New York boys form a union to take on a corrupt, greedy, foreign media mogul.

      • Oddly enough, it seems the people least likely to wear coronacloth over their faces at my local grocery store are young women. Perhaps it’s their vanity. If so, vive le vanite’!

      • Whitney, I’m stealing that. If or when I ever get in a convo with my Leftie relatives, I am going to extravagantly compliment them on their “obedience” to the script.

        • Heartiste, PBUH, makes a lot out of Agree and Amplify. It’s a very useful tool.

          Tell Karen that you’re very proud of her for “informing” on her neighbors to the police.

        • If you want real impact, might I suggest replacing “obedience” with “conformity”? Calls out both the faux rebel and faux bohemian at the same time.

      • Isn’t it funny how The Left was all about “standing up to The Man” until they became “The Man” then demanded unfettered obedience?

    • I would have said in the past that whites are different than Chinese. We would never submit to things like a social credit score.

      But after the China Virus lockup… well I’ve changed my tune. At least 2/3 of whites would be fully on board.

      Perhaps rural USA whites are the last whites who desire true freedom… freedom to live and freedom to die, not our modern (((freedom))). And based on the drug addiction statistics i don’t know how long they will hold out.

  49. I’d say the American genesis of this was the Civil Rights Act, wherein our right of free association was first reduced; the law began to dictate who and what types of people you must hire and not fire. With many stops along the way, this train ran a straight path to the present day, when we are ordered to tolerate alternate lifestyles of every stripe, and cannot discriminate from those who have insect-laden dreadlocks, wear their pants below their glutes, have tatoos on their faces, hook bass lures to their ears, nose, and lips, or perhaps all of the above.

    It’s the way of the left: when you cannot persuade, legislate.

    • The way of the left (radicalism) is that when you cannot persuade, make war. Total war. Legislation is the way radicalism brings weak(ened) resistance to heel. The original Civil Rights Act was written and passed in 1866. Leftist Radicalism has been with us for a long long time.

  50. This insane overreaction to KungFlu has my financial apocalypse antenna twitching. An environment of scarcity may be closer than anyone thinks. Hobbes’ “Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.” may be right around the corner. There just doesn’t seem to be any kind of rational exit strategy whatsoever. The great unravelling may have finally arrived.
    In which case all of these great essays by Zman- (2020 has been an amazing year for your work BTW, really stellar) are only so much incendiary Roman fiddling.

    • I know, most of the people alive have never experienced scarcity and because they’re so poorly read and educated can’t really even conceive of it in the past and certainly do not understand that it’s the norm for Humanity. I’ve always been selfishly torn and really hoped that it would just be after I was dead but I guess if it’s going to happen I’d rather be when I still have strength and some fight in me

  51. Perhaps our affluence has resulted not only in medical diabetes but also in intellectual diabetes.

    • Well, yes. In a sense you are correct. Being stupid is no longer a life threatening debility as it was 200-300 years or so ago. Hence the brighter bulbs in the population have less and less children while the stupid live on to pass down their genes. But I note your quip.

      • The stupid we have always had with us. Being stupid was not a life threatening debility – it was a social advancement debility. Thanks to democracy, any idiot can grab power, and many do.

        • Not sure I completely agree c Matt. Yes, stupid people are bred anew every generation, but whether they live to reproduce is another matter. I believe it was Greg Clark in the “The Son Also Rises” where he took the medieval birth records from England and showed the rich had more children reach maturity than the peasant (might have been an earlier work of Clark’s however). In any event, the strain of humankind was improved generation to generation (eugenics). Today it’s decidedly different (dysgenics).

          But you are correct in the sense that more stupid people equals a larger voting block to keep stupid people (politicians) in positions of power. And in that idiots do grab power.

  52. For Eastern Europe it has to be phones effect on women. Capitalism is very good at giving you the cheapest possible substitute for things you need. We need food, so capitalism gives us sugar and soy facsimiles designed to be consumed without triggering the feeling of being full. Our brightest minds in Silicon Vallet get paid a lot of money to sell you ads and micro-transactions. women are uniquely susceptible to this due to their hypergamous nature, they always want someone better and social media is there to provide. But not really.

  53. Back when I was in college I took one of those standard “introduction to Economics” freshman courses, and I recall being puzzled by it. I had been running my own cash business since the age of 12 or 13, and I looked at the textbook explanations and thought, “This is not how anything actually works.”

    More generally (this was not my thought at the time), if you have a theoretical graph for a scenario, and you have a line on the graph for “supply,” and one for “demand,” it won’t explain anything unless you also have a line for “Jews.” It should be universally acknowledged in any field of study concerning Western society, that Jews exist, that they are a constant in Western affairs, that they will invariably seek outsize influence, that their influence is unavoidably pernicious, malignant and self-serving, and that the corrosive effects of Jews can be plotted with about as much predictable regularity as any other constant.

    So when you discuss the general woes of “liberal democracy,” what you really have to do is label it “Western ideas, plus Jews.” When you ask why there is no inspiring Western art or architecture in the modern world, you must take account of the role of Jews in gate keeping, curating, criticism, and overall nepotism, and the Jewish urges to both dominate any public sphere or activity in order to gain Jewish prestige, and to degrade any Christian or European expression, in order to prevent any White identity from germinating and Noticing.

    “To have great art, we must commission it!
    In order to commission it, we must have great commissioners!”
    — Frank O’Hara

    If all your commissioners are the Blitzstein Cultural Affairs Foundation and the Rosenbaum Family Trust, or if the board members of the Gareth Wilson Art Institute are all named Klein and Feldstein (and I guarantee you they are), when you commission a public sculpture you will get a lumpy pile of concrete instead of an elegant Pieta, every time.

    • As a person with long and extensive experiences, I would go much easier on the J People. That being said, the locally borne and raised J Ladies can be difficult.

      • “As a person with long and extensive experiences, I would go much easier on the J People.”


        I don’t hate Jews as a group and, certainly, not as individuals. Influential Jews are generally doing what they believe is best for their people. Rank-and-file Jews are on board enough with those goals to not push back.

        That said, influential Jews absolutely are trying to make whites minorities in W. Europe, U.S., and the Commonwealth. In a democracy, becoming a minority means being ruled over by others. So tell me, why should I “go much easier” on a people that wish my people to be turned into helots?

        • I agree that Jewish people generally support “open borders”. However, I have found that many of the men are conservative. And even the liberal ones (men) can often be reasoned with.

          That being said, white gentile women (especially the single ones) are often quite radical (see Sen. Warren). One can include blacks and Hispanics (who heavily supported Bernie). I would suggest that perhaps we can learn something from the lefties about “intersectionality”. Otherwise, we white guys will be reduced to complaining among ourselves on the internet.

          • I’ve got a right wing Jewish buddy. Quite admirable in his values, he lives a degeneracy free lifestyle that most of us probably haven’t. Zionist to the core. We agree on social issues, though.

            He’s Jew first, everything else second. He doesn’t see it as his problem what the Anglos, or whites do. It’s our fault for not grouping together.

            Which I tend to agree with. He’s just acting like any sane Jew, putting Jew interests first. Blacks put black interests first. Latinos put Latin interests first. Whites put Jew, black and Latin interests above their own, and that’s the problem.

            Yes, Jews are subversive but whites need to start organizing ourselves into nice communities. It’s a common theme on Z-blog. Railing online about the Jews is easy. Let’s keep a skeptical eye on them and be aware of their minoritarian tricks. But change starts from within, it starts from us.

          • I actually live in Israel, but I moved here when I was 19, long before I had anything holding me back in the hellish multiculturalism cesspool that is the UK

            The real reason why many Zionists remain in the USA are many, they are mostly excuses but they are understandable

            In Israel;

            You have to contend with these issues

            Wages are low and taxes are high, if you’re Jewish.

            If you are an Arab, you may earn off the books and live tax free

            Israelis have to serve in the Army, unless you’re too old or have enough kids when you immigrate, you’re getting drafted into the most suicidal and PC army in the world

            Arabs are exempt

            Arabs may freely move, work, and visit any area in Israeli territory, Israelis are forbidden to enter “Palestinian” Arab areas

            Cars are unaffordable exempt for the very rich: Israel’s pay 100% purchase tax on all cars

            Arabs can find ways around this, an Israeli will go to jail for theft

            Israeli police are thuggish and will most of the time take the Arab side over the Jewish side, matter who actually started the dispute

            Just to get by here, you need to have a ruthless cutthroat mentality

            I really wish people will stop pretending they know what it’s like to live here

            Israel is not an ethno state: it’s a liberal democracy with bolshevik roots that happens to have an 80% Jewish population

            I live here because of religious idealism

            Thankfully, the benefits of living here outweigh the negatives

          • “Yes, Jews are subversive but whites need to start organizing ourselves into nice communities.”

            And make sure to post about it on Facebook and Instagram. “White Community Organizational Meeting”, list the time & place. Bring lots of phones to record what happens next.

            The entire point is that jews, blacks, whoever, can do this w/o a single peep from anyone. Attach white/Euro to your organizing and half in attendance will be FBI/SPLC/ADL, and other alphabet agencies.

            Surely you aren’t naive enough to not see the 800lb boot on our necks that prevent this exact thing from happening? It is their greatest fear which is why so much time, money, and effort are in constant expenditure to prevent it.

          • So what if the various others want to appear?

            Its an open meeting on Facebook and anyone suggesting illegal acts gets the boot.

            Hell start the meeting with a little joking welcome to infiltrators and a notice everything is taped if you like.

            If eventually you start charging dues at least the Feds will pay on time.

            More seriously, either learn to deal with this and form large groups or accept the only option is WRSA style accountability teams of 3 or 15, the later two being a lousy option, not recommended.

            Or I guess you can keep doing what you are doing and lose. Up to you.

            In the end though its mostly about learning to stop putting the nuclear family or the individual on such a high pedestal and to learn to value society and its collective goals. Be collective and win.

            The Left isn’t going way in modernity its an automatic components of such. It isn’t going to leave you alone voluntarily since its subbing a a religious ideology and essentially no one will give up power voluntarily.

            You have to learn to crave power, crave revenge, ans find a way take power and as your revenge build the society you want .

            May I suggest before you start thinking you are Micheal Collins or some such stupidity learn to organize politically . This is legal , fairly safe and can be effective on a huge number of levels.

            Try for either a Libertarian Populist or Palecon takeover of the political structure one bit at a time.

            If and only if that fails or there is a collapse can you consider anything else.

            And yes I know its real work. No work, no reward.

          • This JQ seems to be a hot topic around here. I believe there is a deep history involved. Many Jewish immigrants came from Russia and many of them were real communists. Left-wing partisanship is deeply entrenched in the community, especially with the women.

            However, this seems to be primarily a U.S. issue. I understand that most Jews in the U.K. and France are right leaning (partially due to Muslim immigration?). And even the left-wing Israelis would be considered right leaning here.

            The JQ is a complex issue (like radical white feminism) worth hours of discussion.

          • NJ Person, check out Tobias Langdon’s stuff at Occidental Observer and Faye, Guyenot & others at Unz Review re: the impact of Jews on British and French society. Occidental Observer also had a good recent piece on Alan Shatter’s impact on Ireland.

          • NJ Person – Dead wrong. The Jews in England have been intent on making White Britons a minority in their own lands. Same in Australia. Same in Ireland.
            Those in France today are primarily sephardic Jews from former French colonies in Africa and have no real skin in the game. In every Western country, the Jews agitate for open borders and massive non-White immigration, and against all traditional cultural values – precisely because those values are based on our historic Christian roots.

          • >>>Yes, Jews are subversive but whites need to start organizing ourselves into nice communities<<<

            Try this and see how quickly Shlomo shuts you down

          • Hey Israeli Jew here, I actually want white people to control their own destiny

            Most Shlomos you know have zero connection to authentic Torah Judaism

          • UFO, we can and should organize as pro-White communities and also push Jews out of our society. As many others have pointed out, tolerating Jews in your society makes every pro-White activity much harder if not impossible.

            Why should we labor with that albatross around our necks? They’re net-negative. Send them back.

          • Israeli Jew agrees with you, please send us every western Jew back to his biblical homeland

            Do yourselves and us all a favour

          • There were a lot of good German soldiers in WWII, but their leaders are what counted.

            Agree that white (gentile and Jewish) women are the most radical and that blacks and Hispanics just want stuff. But the truth is that women, blacks and Hispanics couldn’t run a lemonade stand.

            Influential Jews are the brains, organization and money behind many of the forces aligned against us. That’s a fact. Doesn’t make them evil, by the way. Just good at their job.

            I’m perfectly fine working with Jews. Personally, I think that they’re shooting themselves in the foot. Unfortunately, I simply don’t believe that they want to work together. American Jews seem to believe that their best, safest path is making whites an impotent minority in any and every country where we exist. Hell, they might be right. It’s just not great for my people.

          • Being partly of Eastern European background and having live in the NYC area for many years, I am very well educated on and experienced with the “JQ” question. I do occasionally check out Unz and he has some good stuff, other than conspiracy theories.

            That being said, the main current issue we have is the coronavirus and the overreaction. I do notice that the most extreme leaders of the lockdowns are the governors of NY, CA and NJ, all of whom are gentile white males.

            Not wanting to belabor this issue, I would say that the J People are just people (neither angels or devils) except that they are far more intelligent than the average. That means that when they are good, they are very good. And when they are bad, they can be very bad.

          • Illinois? JB Pritzker is a Jew. I’m not certain he qualifies as male, rather whatever Jabba The Hutt is in terms of its orientation.

          • NJ – none of those governors could win office without being strongly pro-Zionist and relying on Zio-lobby money. Donald Trump, Pelosi, Crooked, Turtle Mitch and others have made it a point to expressly and repeatedly speechify about how Israel is their most important concern, priority 1b to our (alleged) 1a.

            No other group wields this kind of influence in America – not even close. They’re much more than “just people.”

            The cool Based Jew at the local store isn’t the problem, but guys like Soros, Adelson, Singer & Marcus are. And they’re a package-deal – you can’t pick and choose your Jews.

          • I would agree that Israel gets special treatment, in the U.S. anyway. But how much is that from the J People and how much does that come from Evangelical Christians, a group that is mostly viewed with contempt by the local J People?

          • Amen, NJ Person. I’m married into a Jewish family and grew up in a city dominated by Eastern European and Russian Jews. Your observation, “when they are good, they are very good. And when they are bad, they can be very bad.” is right on the money. Superior ability breeds superior ambition. The Jewish doctor who saved my life is a very good man. My wife is a child of God. The communist Jews I know, well….

            I think there is a visceral, instinctive, natural urge to ethnic supremacy and solidarity. Blended Americans, such as myself and now my children do not have this component any more, we have no existential fear that comes with Old World ethnic group identity. We’re Americans. We cannot imagine our demise.

            I think there are many American Jews who still have this instinctive otherness that compels them to seek the weakening of the host population for the sake of their own sense of safety, power and control.

          • Terry Baker, superior ethnic solidarity and superior pre-emptive social aggression is often mistaken for superior “ability.”

            Whites need to ask ourselves if our values are compatible with a race that selects for these kinds of “abilities” and “ambitions” and if they make good neighbors in general.

            Jews might like to live in a dog-eat-dog, “you signed the contract” country, but do we?

          • Thanks Terry. I think we are on a similar page. I am neither philo-semitic nor anti-semitic. There are people on this site who complain about powerful Jews favoring open borders and endless lock downs. There is some truth to all this. But what about the Pope? And what about the likes of Merkel opening her country? Are they puppets of the J People? Are we to start hating Catholics and Germans? Some might say Christianity is one big source of out of control political correctness.

          • White gentile women will follow where we lead. “Karens & Cucks” is the new kosher sandwich to turn White men against White women and convince us to abandon leadership of our tribes.

            Based Jews exist but they have no influence in their Tribe and they’re still very Other from us in many ways. We don’t need them – they have to go back. Aliyah means goodbye.

            As for “intersectionality,” look at any social dumpster fire in America today and you’ll find Jews pouring gas, lighting matches and selling goys fire-insurance.

            To the extent all social ills might intersect, they’re the intersection. Not necessarily as a cause but certainly as an opportunistic ethno-social infection that attacks the host when it’s otherwise damaged.

          • Jews are bipedal cancer with an expressive mouth. They hate us. I grew up with a Jew friend who received Christmas presents and ate at my house on holidays because his father fled to Israel one step ahead of the IRS and his Ma fled to the Hudson Valley to get banged by … wait for it … the comedian Jackie Mason among other noteworthies. Small-hat-wearing Pa was a periodontist, and I did all of his patent work on a laser scalpel for free. So the “friend” goes Super-Jewish, which is not uncommon amongst the middle-aged apparently, and suddenly my former “friend” and his wife spout everything that is wrong with Christians. Dude is dead to me. Happy [Christmas], Merry [New Year] let’s mess with the goy.

          • Retreading MAGA, kosher sandwich spitball fights, Randian pontifications, exceptions to the JQ…Yowza.

            We’ll soon be discussing race as a social construct.

    • LOL, I was wondering if I should do the JQ on this one, but you guys beat me to it.

      (Protip: the challenge of the JQ is to not to be swallowed up by the JQ.)

      But if you’re wondering about the shittiness of modern art, this longish Occidental Observer article couldn’t be clearer.

      If you read Tom Wolfe’s The Painted Word with your jewdar turned on, you’ll get much the same story.

      • Beauty inspires the spirit Ugliness depresses it so which do you think you would promote amongst a people you wanted to destroy…We have to start thinking in war terms because the enemy wants us dead both spiritually and physically…

      • The JQ should really be the liberal JQ

        We are not unified, nor we pretend to be

        When you say “Jew”, who do you mean?

        Bear in mind that most Jews are not Orthodox and most Orthodox Jews are very right wing, especially in Israel

        Even in Israel, liberal Jews have all the power, money, and control and they have suicidal policies

        In the diaspora they ask “how do we survive here as a distinct group?”

        In Israel they ask “how do we reconcile being a Jewish country but also a liberal democracy that allows hostile representatives in our own parliament?”

        They answer to both questions are: “we shouldn’t be doing either”

    • How far does liberal democracy extend historically? It seems Z just talks about post war.

      Would one consider European Victorian/Edwardian era culture in this?

      If so then there is plenty of higher culture and achievement from this era that still straddles the world.

      What we have is a collapse of this since essentially after the first world war and European males were put through a blender, leaving lots of cultural voids. Modern Art, mass communication of manufactured pop culture, modern literature, corruption of science inquiry, expansion of fake academia, modern architecture (feel free to add your own area).

      Almost all of these have been systematically degraded and destroyed as the Jewish influence in each of these sectors in society has increased.

    • I’m no art historian, but I once recall reading this: In history, there seems to be a correlation between how realistic a culture’s art was (is) and how “advanced” it was in other institutions. For example, really ancient paintings and drawings were usually two-dimensional. It wasn’t until well into the Renaissance that perspective and so on became features of (say) painting, resulting in very realistic art such as the Dutch Masters, probably not bested even in 4-5 centuries. Similarly, ancient Rome (Greece too maybe?) had periods when the sculpture was extraordinarily lifelike. Later this was echoed by (say) Michelangelo in Renaissance. Unless I’m mistaken, realism has been largely absent from the West since 19th century. Hmmm…

    • My name is Klein but I’m not a Jew. I’m not changing my name just because the Jews took over my last name way back when.

  54. Different types of societies have different central principles. Plato discussed in The Republic his idea society and the four imperfect societies, one of which is Democracy. The central principle of democracy is equality with a mania for freedom and a tolerance borne of indifference. After all, everyone is equal and no one has the right to tell you what to do and what not to do.

    Affluence and modern medical treatment render living a virtuous life a lifestyle option, not a lifestyle necessity. Socialism inevitably weakens the ties that bind, replacing personal relationships to people in particular with impersonal relationships with people in general via the State. We’re all familiar with what Robert Putnam and others have written about the supposed strength of diversity.

    According to Plato, democracy is the third worst worst of society, the fourth and worst being tyranny. The central principle of tyranny is lust – people are slaves to their passions. A democratic man still has a few moral scruples left and at times suffers from a bad conscience. Not so the tyrannical man – he will rob his parents in order to get his inheritance sooner. The tyrant himself will surround himself with men loyal only to him.

    The irony is that the citizens of a tyranny are the most abjectly miserable of all people. It’s pretty clear that our evil Cloud People ruling elite has a mindset of the tyrant. Plato didn’t say what comes after a tyranny.

  55. Deep Thoughts by the Z man 😎Good morning sir. Growing up as a kid every neighborhood had some crazy old cat lady living in a ramshackle dump of a house. The lawn was always two feet high , but nobody really paid any attention to her and we certainly didn’t stop there at Halloween time 😜 Now those crazy old hags are running the country.

    Strong men kept those weirdos in the closet . The cat ladies are now having them parade center stage. I miss the moral code practiced by Christian religion. However I won’t shed a tear for the Catholic Church . Not after what they did to a lot of kids from my generation. They protected child rapists and that’s something that can never be forgiven.

    Will we ever get our dignity back ? Sadly it seems we’ll have to plunge a lot further into degeneracy before that happens.

    Great stuff is always. Always look forward to the blog everyday !

    • Hadn’t thought about it in years, but it did seem like *every* neighborhood had that one weirdo lady like you described. The one I knew as a kid was a war widow, that war she couldn’t recall, but it was “the War” and it was “over there” where “all them gooks” were. They were usually pretty harmless, though. The ones running around now are different. They’ll complain marriage as an institution is maintaining a barefoot, pregnant existence whilst tied to a stove, but that standard is even too high for your a modern girl to accomplish.

      • It isn’t just crazy old ladies. My neighborhood has some really strange and odd kids. I must have to yell at them ten times a day to get off my lawn and still they persist.

        • I found some toddler todling around in my yard the other day. His mother was with him. So I yelled “get off my grass, tick turd (that what i call kids). His mom yelled back ” sorry he likes to pick the flowers (dandelions)” . Touche, well played. I am not afforded dignity or respect in my own neighborhood.

          • Demand respect via garden hose. Run one to reach and when toddler or his mom encroaches your property grab the hose, loosen the valve and give them a good spraying. You can do that on your property so long as they don’t drown.

        • Yes, it’s really strange and odd of kids to wander across someone’s yard. It’s important and normal that a six-year old have a grasp of the concept of property, especially when it’s property that’s been around for a couple of billion years and likely will continue to be around that long, unlike yourself. Your predecessors stole the land from the natives and then sold it to others, eventually yourself. So it must be yours. After all, you pay the taxes on it and there’s an entry in an office somewhere that says it’s yours. Those ignorant children, untrained by similarly ignorant parents, just don’t understand how important your attachment to that piece of land really is.

          • And when said six-year-old kid breaks his arm the mama sues the property owner for failure to provide an environment safe for children. You lose years of your life and possibly the very property which you had never protected. Metaphor for America circa 2020. So sorry for your loss.

    • They protected child rapists and that’s something that can never be forgiven.

      Do you realize that the sexual abuse rate in public schools is higher than in the Catholic abuse scandal? But you will not find similar orchestrated outrage against the public schools, because public schools are the churches and propaganda factories of the degenerates. Do you think the sort of people who applaud “Desmond is Amazing” really care about the defilement of children?

      Almost all the abusers were homosexuals who had infiltrated the Catholic Church with the express intent of degrading and defiling it.

      The hatred heaped upon the Catholic Church is spawned by the very evil degenerates pulling down traditional moral codes. They don’t hate the Catholic Church because it abused children. They hate it for all the moral priests and believers who didn’t abuse children. They cheered the idea of homosexual priests and then were eager to heap the sins of those priests on the church.

      The Catholic Church is infiltrated with degenerates all the way up to the Pope now, but just as with the Boy Scouts, that was the whole point, to destroy something good.

      You play into their hands when you join in their condemnation of the church instead of the homosexuals who have infiltrated it.

      • most of what you’ve said re: homosexuals and the church also applies to the Boy Scouts.

        • Came here to say this. Step One: Agitate non-stop for BSA to accept gay Scout Masters; Step Two: Decry any attempt at oversight of said SMs as homophobia, etc.; Step 3: Act shocked – SHOCKED – that there’s pedophilia going on in BSA!; Step 4: Profit!

        • Yep, and the Boy Scouts were pilloried until they openly allowed homosexuals to join and lead. Until then, if you were gay, you either kept it very quite—as in no one knew—or you were politely told to volunteer elsewhere. Any incident of a Scout Master “alone” with a scout was grounds for dismissal. Most of the Scout Masters I knew—if not all—were family men with their own children. That was a pretty good indication of an honest commitment. We had hours of training as how to handle situations with the boys in the troop—mostly concerning the prevention of impropriety. I never went on any outing where there were not three or four Scout Masters on hand—all family men. We monitored the boys and ourselves.

          The above can not be said for Catholic Priests, so I disagree with you there. Priests were never monitored as were Scout Masters when I was in the organization. Indeed, even today being a homosexual is not a disqualifying behavior for young men entering the seminary. The thinking being that one resists the temptation when undertaking the vow of celibacy. Of course, that’s totally naive. But that’s the Church for you.

          • The Church’s problem was relying on “experts” who had Her destruction at heart, rather than its own timeless teachings.

            But, like a cleansing forest fire, it is needed to clear the dead underbrush for new growth to rise from the ashes. Unfortunately the process takes down some good trees as well.

          • They can’t tolerate boys or men having thier own space/refuge. The boyscouts had to be destroyed/

          • Not sure if I agree about homosexuals joining the Catholic church intending to bring it down, but this is my belief:
            The root of the church’s child abuse problem is simply it’s insistence on priest celebacy:
            Young, and sincere young men take the vows in good faith…
            But eventually hormones win out, and sadly, little boys are the vicims.
            This ridiculous insistence on celibacy (which has no Biblical basis), is also why the Church has a hard time keeping Priests.
            And, how often do you hear of Protestant ministers or Rabbis (who are free to marry & have families) diddling little boys?

      • ABSOLUTELY! The very same people attacking the Church today are the ones who fought tooth and nail to get the homosexuals into the church in the first place.

        • Just as the ones protesting “homophobia” are the same ones advocating on behalf of the Sand Hutus.

      • Amen Vizzini.

        The orchestrated outrage has permeated the consciences of otherwise good, decent Catholic men. One can observe it in the empty pews, the closing of Catholic primary and secondary schools, the reluctance to become involved with the local parish and its charitable and social activities, and the jokes about priests.

      • Another thing to notice.
        Its the church, or its the boy scouts, or its boarding schools, or its some other unconnected thing. Yet no one says. Its the homosexuals in almost every case.

        No one notices or pretends to notice all these things are homosexual and are intrinsic to the behavior.

        Child abuse in the vast majority of cases is homosexuality. Indeed something in the order of 60% of homosexuals have also been abused as children and its nearly all males.

        The pushing of the behavior is the normalizing systematic and large scale male child rape and there is no denying this.

        Try challenging normy on this and see the mental worms writhe in a frenzy of denial.

        • The thinking, which really took hold back in the 1960’s and ’70’s, was that being a homosexual, in itself, was not a sin in the eyes of the church, but committing homosexual acts was. And celibacy was pre-ordained for all of the clergy, so in theory, becoming a priest meant that having sex with anybody was off the table…for the rest of your life.

          In theory.

          So you’re a gay Catholic boy, you’re experiencing some serious self-loathing for all of these creepy thoughts and attractions you’re experiencing, until it occurs to you that if you join the priesthood, you’re giving up all sex, and dedicating your life to God.

          Problem solved, right?

          Plus, it scratches your in-born theatrical itch since you’re essentially “on stage” every day, wearing resplendent costumes, and bossing people around. A perfect solution, except for that old eternal problem…human nature. Homos are gonna homo. It can’t be helped.

          And of course, the enemies of the church, who are legion, cannot wait to paint the picture that every dude in a Roman collar is a “pedophile”, despite that fact that the vast majority of the cases were post-puberty gay male teenagers getting jiggy with Father Lightloafers. They found, and find, each other through their inborn gaydar.

          But the point remains, for the past thirty years, the media and most of our public institutions would have you believing that your 8 year old daughter was at grave risk at a Catholic Mass. Hell, they even have all of us Catholics looking at a guy in a round collar on the sidewalk and thinking “look at this perv”.

          But the issue isn’t pedophila. It’s homosexual predation.

          This was always going to be a disaster, just waiting to happen.

          And it has since grown into a gay pandemic within the church now, as the gay priests have become self-aware, see their depravity as a right now, and many even view us normies as a threat.

          I don’t know what the answer is. But we know what the problem has been.

          • re: “And celibacy was pre-ordained for all of the clergy, so in theory, becoming a priest meant that having sex with anybody was off the table…”

            In theory, theory and practice are the same, in practice they ain’t.

          • The difference is that straight priests are not living in close quarters with a bunch of single women. The percentage of homosexual priests who can actually keep their vows is probably lower than the Wuhan Flu death rate.

          • I really don’t believe that (most of) these Priests are homo when they take their vows.

            ” But if you join the priesthood, you’re giving up all sex, and dedicating your life to God “.

            I believe they are sincere when they take this vow, but ….
            Man is a sexual creature – and to deny this is foolhardy.
            Many just can’t keep the vow, and move to homosexuality to satisfy their urges – it also happens in prisons, straight men often turn to other men.
            You can’t ignore biology, without tragic results.
            Let priests marry, and most of this will disappear.

      • I’m reading Sam Harris “The End of Faith.” Now, he has it in for all religion, but he makes a strong case that Islam is the worst of the lot. I’d much rather be, er um, “ministered unto” by a priest than (tick all that apply): have my clitoris cut out without anesthesia, be forced to cover my body head-to-toe, risk death (or sometimes die) because the building was on fire, and I wasn’t suitably attired to be rescued, beaten, raped, stoned to death, even for something not my fault. I’m sure that men have gotten equally barbaric treatment. Oh yeah, how about being murdered for any number of reasons, even if you’re a cartoonist in Holland? Islam’s worst makes whatever happens in the rectory seem pretty tame in comparison.

      • @Vizzini – Know a guy who is a priest very much of the, “Can these damn queens die, already?” school. I recommended seminaries make two additional required courses: a semester of hunting and a semester of boxing. It would be pass/fail: you can’t graduate until you kill a deer and punch someone hard enough to knock him out. Would definitely weed out the Disney princesses, which is why it can’t happen, but he thought it was a good idea. Probably helps that he’s a hunter.

        • Reminds me of the old joke about the man propositioned by a homosexual in a public restroom. Following a little verbal back and forth and inappropriate ‘laying on of hands’ by the latter, the heterosexual guy finally had enough and hauled off and gave the other one of his best ‘haymakers,’ knocking him to the floor. The other picked himself up and brushed himself off, cleared his head a bit. Whereupon a big smile came upon his face as he said, “there is only one thing I like better than [degenerate homosexual act], and that is fighting!”

          Which is why it is important in such cases to knock the guy out instead of just knocking him on his ass. 🙂

      • Viz, I only condemn the Church to the extent that it lacks the institutional mechanisms and will to put a stop to this subhuman garbage. They’ve had many years to put their house in order. It took them until 2018 to take action on [redacted]-worthy McCarrick despite decades of known pederasty and predation on seminary students et al.

        I’m as much a believer in hierarchy as anyone, but that deference comes with a responsibility to protect those who respect that authority. The Church has sadly failed to respect its flock and abused its magisterial authority for decades now, even prior to V2.

        Personnel is policy. Unless and until the Lavender Mafia is put down with Torquemadan finality, I can’t respect the authority of this anti-Church.

      • The real problem is that the Catholic Church departed from the New Testament pattern, first by extolling celibacy and asceticism and finally when Gregory VI laid down the (canon) law and made celibacy mandatory for the priesthood. The New Testament pattern for ordained leaders (Bishops and Deacons) to be married (to only one women. polygamists were not allowed) and have children – believing children at that. It was only centuries later that a strain of asceticism crept in and the requirement to be married was relaxed. When Gregory VI imposed celibacy, the priesthood – especially the Italian priesthood – was in sad shape. Simony – having mistresses – was common along with a whole host of immoral practices. When Hildebrand was elevated to the papacy to become Gregory VI, he reacted to the sorry moral state of the priesthood and declared that henceforth all clergy would be celibate. It has been so ever since.

    • Well, keep in mind that the Catholic Church allowed homosexuals into the church just before this all started happening. Vatican II may have officially ended, but unofficially it lives on. They are SJWs wearing religious costumes. Once the church completely excises them and burns their writings, it can return to normal. Whether or not it is corrupted beyond repair is yet to be seen though.

      • I think a few of the major denominations are cucked and cooked, Tarstarkas. The true faith is going underground now. Many are found on line and carefully out of the mainstream – much like our gracious blog host. Or they retreat into the smaller, tinier churches where it is harder to target them.

          • Orthodoxy must hold the line.
            As a lapsed Catholic who went through 12 years of Catholic education, I have seriously considered conversion to Orthodoxy.

          • I converted from Episcopal to Armenian Orthodox. I have a nominal trace of Armenian bloodline and I was welcomed with open arms despite resembling the young Val Kilmer. Language in this case was the hardest challenge involved. I love the Orthodox church and its community.

          • I’m curious what it is that attracts you to Orthodoxy? I don’t know much about it but what little I do know has impressed me. Plus the art is just phenomenal.

          • Its simple as that .They have the original new testament.New testament in the first years after the death of JESUS ,what we do not exactly have original coppy was writen only in Greek.The oldest coppy what we have is called Codex Vaticanus.The name suggest LATIN ,but is called that only because is keep in Vatican .Its in Greek .The results of the dating show c300-325.We know that the original appostles in first century,this who witnessed and spoke personally with Jesus have writen the Bible only in Greek .Eastern Roman empire where the orthodox chirch come from called Byzantium established first state Christian RELIGION IN AROUND SAME TIME AS THIS COPPY.The empire become the most learned and powerfull intellectual and economic power in Europe for next 700-800 hundred years.400 500 ,600 years after they start practice Christianity most of Europe still was pagan. The empire exist for 1100 years before fell down to Otoman islamic turks in 15 century .And i will tell you something interesting.This who was their brothers in fight The ROME catholics and actualy learn how to practice the religion from them and said that translated fully the greek original text (me personally doubt that for logical reasons, i think they put some things themselves for political reasons,like for example that Rome have primacy in chirch matters, what is absolute lie) in Latin from this first GREEK original ,not only did not volunteer to go fight for Constantinople,but actually help many more times the islam and their armies against what supposed to be their natural alliies.That is in very short history.

        • Well, there is a ray of hope in individual churches. While the denominations are run by SJWs, there are still good individual churches.
          James Edward’s local church was given an ultimatum by the national church headquarters to excommunicate him for crimes against racial justice and his church stood behind him and called their bluff and I think the whole congregation was expelled. That will be a strong church.
          The individual congregations need to understand that the first demand leads to the 900th demand that they worship Satan and molest children.

          • Correct. These cretins keep prattling about “church doctrine”. There is no church doctrine – there is only God’s doctrine. The bible means what it says, and says what it means. The church is not the faith; and those that abandon both their church and their faith because they can’t distinguish between the two… are literally throwing the baby out with the bath water…

    • It wasn’t just your generation. Per Wiki, priests have been forbidden to marry since 1563. Stands to reason there’s been a whole lotta buggery goin’ on since then.* In an unrelated twist, have you ever wished that Weird Al or somebody would do a version of The Who’s “My Generation” with a real stu-stu-stutterer doing vocals? Why yes, this does fit Zman’s essay: that is an example of a joke that may once have been acceptable (not that I claim “funny”) but no longer 🙂

      *Although from my Spanish lit readings, I recall the humorous comment that in Spain “Priests never have children, only nieces and nephews.” Some stories, perhaps “Milagros de Nuestra Señora”, have errant priests sneaking off to the bordello, or even pregnant nuns, as part of the theme. If nothing else, this is a nod of realism to human failings.

      • “Stands to reason there’s been a whole lotta buggery goin’ on since then.”
        By your statement, Ben, you imply that if you couldn’t get it in the female pink, you’d be happy to put it in the male stink. These guys – even (especially?) back then – didn’t go gay because they joined the Church; they joined the only all-male revue in town because they were gay. Regardless, that’s a separate issue from modern Catholic gay pedophilia.

        • Exactly, Tulsa. Ben posts another illogical conclusion. Celibacy, or the lack thereof, is not this issue. Homosexuality is. The homo’s would love to conflate the issue. Anything to deny their debauchery and inherent evil nature.

    • There was always one mother who would never let her sons play because she was always worried about them hurting themselves. We used to pity the boys but now those Karens are used by the powers that be to keep us in line

    • The Catholic Church abuse is immensely highlighted by today left wing press.It happened but if you compare the abuse of kids in atheist circles with that in the church is still 10 times lower.There is not any doubt about this .The abuse in ultra left Liberal society even is done openly on front of us without any repricutions .

  56. It’s partly the confusion between being a libertarian or being a libertine.
    “libertine: a person who is morally or sexually unrestrained, a dissolute man; a profligate; a freethinker in religious matters.”
    It’s the tendency for Americans to do everything to excess, to lack any constraints on your own behavior or desires.
    We’ve been taught by media and advertising to want everything, to grasp at everything, without any concern for others; to be boorish Jokers; to live our lives as if it was a TV sit-com.

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