The Loss Of Dignity

If you step back and think about it, the normal man can probably list a dozen things he cannot say in public that he grew up hearing on television, usually as jokes. Then the jokes were no longer welcome in polite company and soon they were deemed “not funny” by the sorts of people who worry about such things. The same was true of simple observations about the world. Somehow noticing the obvious became impolite, then it became taboo and finally prohibited.

The reverse is true as well. Middle-aged men can probably think of a dozen things that were unimaginable or unheard of, which are now fully normal. Of course, normal is one of those things that is now prohibited. It implies that something can be abnormal or weird and that itself is forbidden. The proliferation of novel identities and activities that demand to be treated with dignity and respect is a function of the old restraints having been eliminated. When everything is possible you get everything.

The strange thing about all of this is there is seemingly no point to it. The proliferation of new taboos was not in response to some harm being done. In most cases, the taboos are about observable reality. The people turning up in the public square with novel identities or activities demanding respect did not exist very long ago. If they did, not one was curious enough to look into it. The public was happy to ignore people into unusual activities, as long as they kept it to themselves.

Of course, none of what we generally call political correctness is intended to be uplifting or inspirational. The commissars of public morality like to pretend it is inspiring, but that’s just a way to entertain themselves. These new identity groups are not demanding the rest of us seek some higher plane of existence or challenge our limitations. In fact, it is always in the opposite directions. It’s a demand to lower standards and give up on our quaint notions of self-respect and human dignity.

In the Demon In Democracy, Polish academic Ryszard Legutko observed that liberal democracy had abandoned the concept of dignity. This is the obligation to behave in a certain way, as determined by your position in society. Dignity was earned by acting in accordance with the high standards of the community. In turn, this behavior was rewarded with greater privilege and responsibility. Failure to live up to one’s duties would result in the loss of dignity, along with the status it conferred.

Instead, modern liberal democracy awards dignity by default. We are supposed to respect all choices and all behaviors as being equal. There are no standards against which to measure human behavior, other than the standard of absolute, unconditional acceptance. As a result, the most inventively degenerate and base activities spring from the culture, almost like a test of the community’s tolerance. Instead of looking up to the heavens for inspiration, liberal democracies look down in the gutter.

Dignity comes from maintaining one’s obligations to his position in the social order, but that requires a fidelity to a social order. It also requires a connection to the rest of the people in the society. In a world of deracinated individuals focused solely on getting as much as they can in order to maximize pleasure, a sense of commitment to the community is not possible. Democracy assumes we are all equal, therefore we have no duty to one another as duty requires a hierarchical relationship.

In the absence of a vertical set of reciprocal relationships, we get this weird lattice work of horizontal relationships, elevating the profane and vulgar, while pulling down the noble and honorable. The public culture is about minimizing and degrading those who participate in the public culture. In turn, the public culture attracts only those who cannot be shamed or embarrassed. The great joy of public culture is to see those who aspire to more get torn down as the crowd roars at their demise.

The puzzle is why this is a feature of liberal democracy. Ryszard Legutko places the blame on Protestantism. Their emphasis on original sin and man’s natural limitations minimized man’s role in the world. This focus on man’s wretchedness was useful in channeling our urge to labor and create into useful activities, thus generating great prosperity, but it left us with a minimalist view of human accomplishment. We are not worthy to aspire to anything more than the base and degraded.

It is certainly true that the restraints of Christianity limited the sorts of behavior that are common today, but he may be putting the cart before the horse. The emergence of Protestantism in northern Europe was as much a result of the people and their nature as anything else. Put more simply, the Protestant work ethic existed before there was such a thing as a Protestant. The desire to work and delay gratification evolved over many generations out of environmental necessity.

Still, culture is an important part of man’s environment and environmental factors shape our evolution. It is not unreasonable to say that the evolution of Protestant ethics magnified and structured naturally occurring instincts among the people. With the collapse of Christianity as a social force in the West, the natural defense to degeneracy and vulgarity has collapsed with it. As a result, great plenty is the fuel for a small cohort of deviants to overrun the culture of liberal democracies.

Even so, there does seem to be something else. Liberal democracy has not produced great art or great architecture. The Greeks and Romans left us great things that still inspire the imagination of the man who happens to gaze upon them. The castles and cathedrals of the medieval period still awe us. The great flourishing of liberal democracy in the 20th century gave us Brutalism and dribbles of pain on canvas. The new century promises us primitives exposing themselves on the internet.

There is something about the liberal democratic order that seeks to strip us of our dignity and self-respect. Look at what happened in the former Eastern Bloc countries after communism. Exposed to the narcotic of liberalism they immediately acquired the same cultural patterns. Fertility collapsed. Religion collapsed. Marriage and family formation collapsed. These suddenly free societies got the Western disease as soon as they were exposed to western liberal democracy.

The reaction we see today is not due to these societies being behind the times, but due to seeing the ugly face of liberal democracy. It is much like the reaction to the proliferation of recreational drugs in the 1970’s. At first, it seemed harmless, but then people realized the horror of unrestrained self-indulgence. That’s what we see in the former Eastern Bloc. Their leaders still retain some of the old sense of things and are trying to save their people from the dungeon of modernity.

That still leaves us with the unanswered question. What is it about liberal democracy that seems to lead to this loss of dignity? It is possible that such a fabulously efficient system for producing wealth is a tool mankind is not yet equipped to handle without killing ourselves. Maybe we are just not built for anything but scarcity. Want gives us purpose and without it, we lose our reason to exist. Either way, without dignity, we cannot defend ourselves and the results are inevitable.


For sites like this to exist, it requires people like you chipping in a few bucks a month to keep the lights on and the people fed. It turns out that you can’t live on clicks and compliments. Five bucks a month is not a lot to ask. If you don’t want to commit to a subscription, make a one time donation. Or, you can send money to: Z Media LLC P.O. Box 432 Cockeysville, MD 21030-0432. You can also use PayPal to send a few bucks, rather than have that latte at Starbucks. Thank you for your support!


308 Comments
Most Voted
Newest Oldest
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Elementary Penguin
4 years ago

Back when I was in college I took one of those standard “introduction to Economics” freshman courses, and I recall being puzzled by it. I had been running my own cash business since the age of 12 or 13, and I looked at the textbook explanations and thought, “This is not how anything actually works.” More generally (this was not my thought at the time), if you have a theoretical graph for a scenario, and you have a line on the graph for “supply,” and one for “demand,” it won’t explain anything unless you also have a line for “Jews.”… Read more »

NJ Person
NJ Person
Reply to  Elementary Penguin
4 years ago

As a person with long and extensive experiences, I would go much easier on the J People. That being said, the locally borne and raised J Ladies can be difficult.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  NJ Person
4 years ago

“As a person with long and extensive experiences, I would go much easier on the J People.” Why? I don’t hate Jews as a group and, certainly, not as individuals. Influential Jews are generally doing what they believe is best for their people. Rank-and-file Jews are on board enough with those goals to not push back. That said, influential Jews absolutely are trying to make whites minorities in W. Europe, U.S., and the Commonwealth. In a democracy, becoming a minority means being ruled over by others. So tell me, why should I “go much easier” on a people that wish… Read more »

NJ Person
NJ Person
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
4 years ago

I agree that Jewish people generally support “open borders”. However, I have found that many of the men are conservative. And even the liberal ones (men) can often be reasoned with.

That being said, white gentile women (especially the single ones) are often quite radical (see Sen. Warren). One can include blacks and Hispanics (who heavily supported Bernie). I would suggest that perhaps we can learn something from the lefties about “intersectionality”. Otherwise, we white guys will be reduced to complaining among ourselves on the internet.

UFO
UFO
Reply to  NJ Person
4 years ago

I’ve got a right wing Jewish buddy. Quite admirable in his values, he lives a degeneracy free lifestyle that most of us probably haven’t. Zionist to the core. We agree on social issues, though. He’s Jew first, everything else second. He doesn’t see it as his problem what the Anglos, or whites do. It’s our fault for not grouping together. Which I tend to agree with. He’s just acting like any sane Jew, putting Jew interests first. Blacks put black interests first. Latinos put Latin interests first. Whites put Jew, black and Latin interests above their own, and that’s the… Read more »

tristan
tristan
Reply to  UFO
4 years ago

If he is so Zionist. Well why is here?

Joshua Shalet
Joshua Shalet
Reply to  tristan
4 years ago

I actually live in Israel, but I moved here when I was 19, long before I had anything holding me back in the hellish multiculturalism cesspool that is the UK The real reason why many Zionists remain in the USA are many, they are mostly excuses but they are understandable In Israel; You have to contend with these issues Wages are low and taxes are high, if you’re Jewish. If you are an Arab, you may earn off the books and live tax free Israelis have to serve in the Army, unless you’re too old or have enough kids when… Read more »

Apex Predator
Apex Predator
Reply to  UFO
4 years ago

“Yes, Jews are subversive but whites need to start organizing ourselves into nice communities.” And make sure to post about it on Facebook and Instagram. “White Community Organizational Meeting”, list the time & place. Bring lots of phones to record what happens next. The entire point is that jews, blacks, whoever, can do this w/o a single peep from anyone. Attach white/Euro to your organizing and half in attendance will be FBI/SPLC/ADL, and other alphabet agencies. Surely you aren’t naive enough to not see the 800lb boot on our necks that prevent this exact thing from happening? It is their… Read more »

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  Apex Predator
4 years ago

So what if the various others want to appear? Its an open meeting on Facebook and anyone suggesting illegal acts gets the boot. Hell start the meeting with a little joking welcome to infiltrators and a notice everything is taped if you like. If eventually you start charging dues at least the Feds will pay on time. More seriously, either learn to deal with this and form large groups or accept the only option is WRSA style accountability teams of 3 or 15, the later two being a lousy option, not recommended. Or I guess you can keep doing what… Read more »

NJ Person
NJ Person
Reply to  UFO
4 years ago

This JQ seems to be a hot topic around here. I believe there is a deep history involved. Many Jewish immigrants came from Russia and many of them were real communists. Left-wing partisanship is deeply entrenched in the community, especially with the women.

However, this seems to be primarily a U.S. issue. I understand that most Jews in the U.K. and France are right leaning (partially due to Muslim immigration?). And even the left-wing Israelis would be considered right leaning here.

The JQ is a complex issue (like radical white feminism) worth hours of discussion.

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  NJ Person
4 years ago

NJ Person, check out Tobias Langdon’s stuff at Occidental Observer and Faye, Guyenot & others at Unz Review re: the impact of Jews on British and French society. Occidental Observer also had a good recent piece on Alan Shatter’s impact on Ireland.

3g4m
3g4m
Reply to  NJ Person
4 years ago

NJ Person – Dead wrong. The Jews in England have been intent on making White Britons a minority in their own lands. Same in Australia. Same in Ireland.
Those in France today are primarily sephardic Jews from former French colonies in Africa and have no real skin in the game. In every Western country, the Jews agitate for open borders and massive non-White immigration, and against all traditional cultural values – precisely because those values are based on our historic Christian roots.

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  UFO
4 years ago

>>>Yes, Jews are subversive but whites need to start organizing ourselves into nice communities<<<

Try this and see how quickly Shlomo shuts you down

Joshua Shalet
Joshua Shalet
Reply to  MemeWarVet
4 years ago

Hey Israeli Jew here, I actually want white people to control their own destiny

Most Shlomos you know have zero connection to authentic Torah Judaism

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  UFO
4 years ago

UFO, we can and should organize as pro-White communities and also push Jews out of our society. As many others have pointed out, tolerating Jews in your society makes every pro-White activity much harder if not impossible.

Why should we labor with that albatross around our necks? They’re net-negative. Send them back.

Joshua Shalet
Joshua Shalet
Reply to  Exile
4 years ago

Israeli Jew agrees with you, please send us every western Jew back to his biblical homeland

Do yourselves and us all a favour

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  NJ Person
4 years ago

There were a lot of good German soldiers in WWII, but their leaders are what counted. Agree that white (gentile and Jewish) women are the most radical and that blacks and Hispanics just want stuff. But the truth is that women, blacks and Hispanics couldn’t run a lemonade stand. Influential Jews are the brains, organization and money behind many of the forces aligned against us. That’s a fact. Doesn’t make them evil, by the way. Just good at their job. I’m perfectly fine working with Jews. Personally, I think that they’re shooting themselves in the foot. Unfortunately, I simply don’t… Read more »

NJ Person
NJ Person
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
4 years ago

Being partly of Eastern European background and having live in the NYC area for many years, I am very well educated on and experienced with the “JQ” question. I do occasionally check out Unz and he has some good stuff, other than conspiracy theories. That being said, the main current issue we have is the coronavirus and the overreaction. I do notice that the most extreme leaders of the lockdowns are the governors of NY, CA and NJ, all of whom are gentile white males. Not wanting to belabor this issue, I would say that the J People are just… Read more »

Lutefisk
Lutefisk
Reply to  NJ Person
4 years ago

Illinois? JB Pritzker is a Jew. I’m not certain he qualifies as male, rather whatever Jabba The Hutt is in terms of its orientation.

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  NJ Person
4 years ago

NJ – none of those governors could win office without being strongly pro-Zionist and relying on Zio-lobby money. Donald Trump, Pelosi, Crooked, Turtle Mitch and others have made it a point to expressly and repeatedly speechify about how Israel is their most important concern, priority 1b to our (alleged) 1a. No other group wields this kind of influence in America – not even close. They’re much more than “just people.” The cool Based Jew at the local store isn’t the problem, but guys like Soros, Adelson, Singer & Marcus are. And they’re a package-deal – you can’t pick and choose… Read more »

NJ Person
NJ Person
Reply to  Exile
4 years ago

I would agree that Israel gets special treatment, in the U.S. anyway. But how much is that from the J People and how much does that come from Evangelical Christians, a group that is mostly viewed with contempt by the local J People?

TERRY BAKER
Reply to  NJ Person
4 years ago

Amen, NJ Person. I’m married into a Jewish family and grew up in a city dominated by Eastern European and Russian Jews. Your observation, “when they are good, they are very good. And when they are bad, they can be very bad.” is right on the money. Superior ability breeds superior ambition. The Jewish doctor who saved my life is a very good man. My wife is a child of God. The communist Jews I know, well…. I think there is a visceral, instinctive, natural urge to ethnic supremacy and solidarity. Blended Americans, such as myself and now my children… Read more »

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  TERRY BAKER
4 years ago

Terry Baker, superior ethnic solidarity and superior pre-emptive social aggression is often mistaken for superior “ability.”

Whites need to ask ourselves if our values are compatible with a race that selects for these kinds of “abilities” and “ambitions” and if they make good neighbors in general.

Jews might like to live in a dog-eat-dog, “you signed the contract” country, but do we?

NJ Person
NJ Person
Reply to  TERRY BAKER
4 years ago

Thanks Terry. I think we are on a similar page. I am neither philo-semitic nor anti-semitic. There are people on this site who complain about powerful Jews favoring open borders and endless lock downs. There is some truth to all this. But what about the Pope? And what about the likes of Merkel opening her country? Are they puppets of the J People? Are we to start hating Catholics and Germans? Some might say Christianity is one big source of out of control political correctness.

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  NJ Person
4 years ago

White gentile women will follow where we lead. “Karens & Cucks” is the new kosher sandwich to turn White men against White women and convince us to abandon leadership of our tribes. Based Jews exist but they have no influence in their Tribe and they’re still very Other from us in many ways. We don’t need them – they have to go back. Aliyah means goodbye. As for “intersectionality,” look at any social dumpster fire in America today and you’ll find Jews pouring gas, lighting matches and selling goys fire-insurance. To the extent all social ills might intersect, they’re the… Read more »

Remmi
Remmi
Reply to  Exile
4 years ago

Jews are bipedal cancer with an expressive mouth. They hate us. I grew up with a Jew friend who received Christmas presents and ate at my house on holidays because his father fled to Israel one step ahead of the IRS and his Ma fled to the Hudson Valley to get banged by … wait for it … the comedian Jackie Mason among other noteworthies. Small-hat-wearing Pa was a periodontist, and I did all of his patent work on a laser scalpel for free. So the “friend” goes Super-Jewish, which is not uncommon amongst the middle-aged apparently, and suddenly my… Read more »

Yves Vannes
Yves Vannes
Member
Reply to  NJ Person
4 years ago

Retreading MAGA, kosher sandwich spitball fights, Randian pontifications, exceptions to the JQ…Yowza.

We’ll soon be discussing race as a social construct.

Sperg Adjacent
Sperg Adjacent
Reply to  Elementary Penguin
4 years ago

LOL, I was wondering if I should do the JQ on this one, but you guys beat me to it.

(Protip: the challenge of the JQ is to not to be swallowed up by the JQ.)

But if you’re wondering about the shittiness of modern art, this longish Occidental Observer article couldn’t be clearer. https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2020/03/17/marl-rothko-abstract-expressionism-and-the-decline-of-western-art-part-1/

If you read Tom Wolfe’s The Painted Word with your jewdar turned on, you’ll get much the same story.

Lineman
Lineman
Reply to  Sperg Adjacent
4 years ago

Beauty inspires the spirit Ugliness depresses it so which do you think you would promote amongst a people you wanted to destroy…We have to start thinking in war terms because the enemy wants us dead both spiritually and physically…

Judge Smails
Judge Smails
Reply to  Sperg Adjacent
4 years ago
Joshua Shalet
Joshua Shalet
Reply to  Sperg Adjacent
4 years ago

The JQ should really be the liberal JQ We are not unified, nor we pretend to be When you say “Jew”, who do you mean? Bear in mind that most Jews are not Orthodox and most Orthodox Jews are very right wing, especially in Israel Even in Israel, liberal Jews have all the power, money, and control and they have suicidal policies In the diaspora they ask “how do we survive here as a distinct group?” In Israel they ask “how do we reconcile being a Jewish country but also a liberal democracy that allows hostile representatives in our own… Read more »

tristan
tristan
Reply to  Elementary Penguin
4 years ago

How far does liberal democracy extend historically? It seems Z just talks about post war. Would one consider European Victorian/Edwardian era culture in this? If so then there is plenty of higher culture and achievement from this era that still straddles the world. What we have is a collapse of this since essentially after the first world war and European males were put through a blender, leaving lots of cultural voids. Modern Art, mass communication of manufactured pop culture, modern literature, corruption of science inquiry, expansion of fake academia, modern architecture (feel free to add your own area). Almost all… Read more »

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Elementary Penguin
4 years ago

I’m no art historian, but I once recall reading this: In history, there seems to be a correlation between how realistic a culture’s art was (is) and how “advanced” it was in other institutions. For example, really ancient paintings and drawings were usually two-dimensional. It wasn’t until well into the Renaissance that perspective and so on became features of (say) painting, resulting in very realistic art such as the Dutch Masters, probably not bested even in 4-5 centuries. Similarly, ancient Rome (Greece too maybe?) had periods when the sculpture was extraordinarily lifelike. Later this was echoed by (say) Michelangelo in… Read more »

Tom K
Tom K
Reply to  Elementary Penguin
4 years ago

My name is Klein but I’m not a Jew. I’m not changing my name just because the Jews took over my last name way back when.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
4 years ago

Liberal democracy has at least three inherent flaws that lead to, well, here. 1. Suffrage expansion that eventually includes women. 2. Small cohesive groups eventually gain overwhelming power over the general population. (In our case, Jews.) 3. Wealth creation alleviating most scarcity. Let’s start with women. Women are wonderful in their natural roles (far better on average than men), but as a group, are awful in the role of logical, long-term thinking. Women are far more emotional and empathetic, which, again, is perfect for raising families and building communities. But it leaves them open to emotional manipulation as the picture… Read more »

Hilltop
Hilltop
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
4 years ago

Citizen, your takes are so consistently solid, why don’t you start your own blog? Shame that they’re consigned to comments sections.

You can get up and running on WordPress in literally half an hour.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Hilltop
4 years ago

Nay, Hilltop! Let like attract like.
Force multiplier, and we peasants get to attend a grand, witty party every day.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  Hilltop
4 years ago

Maybe. But in truth, I agree with Z on 90%+, and he’s read about 1,000 more books that I have, so not sure what I’d bring to the party. Even today where I seemingly disagree with Z about the role of Jews, I probably wouldn’t write that way if it was my own blog. You have different considerations when you’re the project manager. That said, I am seeing a void growing out there for our type. You have the delusional Spencer types who are a LARPing joke. But, more importantly, the respected old guard like Sailer aren’t pivoting as the… Read more »

MossHammer
Member
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
4 years ago

I’m late to the party on this one but Citizen, you nailed it with “how to move forward, to build communities, to recruit in world that will do anything to stop us for doing that.” It took a while to realize “my people” are few and far between. And specifically locally. Cautious exploration has gotten me no where. As this tension I feel about the trend of things grows, I’m about ready to throw caution to the wind and hang out a damn flag…. We know the ills, we know the players, we speculate on the cure. How to find… Read more »

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
4 years ago

Citizen, check out Flashbak.com, the article on the Communist Party of Great Britain. The women in these photos (and their paste eating fellow traveler so-called “men”) are what we have been up against all along. Not much going for them, obviously, and seduced by promises of gibs for all. We live with the long term consequences of this sort of thing.

Federalist
Federalist
4 years ago

There is a Seinfeld episode where for whatever reason, people think that Jerry and George are a gay couple. Each time Jerry and George explain that they’re not gay, they add, “not that there’s anything wrong with that.” They can get away with showing reruns, but a television show couldn’t make that joke today (and this was only back in the 90’s.) Today it is a gross violation of official dogma to even imply that there may be people out there who think that there is “something wrong with that.” Mere acceptance of homosexuality is heresy. Today we are required… Read more »

Vizzini
Member
Reply to  Federalist
4 years ago

Seinfeld was a massive victory for the forces of degeneracy.

Drake
Drake
Reply to  Vizzini
4 years ago

Maybe. At the time it was just a comical portrayal of the kind of vapid narcissists that inhabit NYC. A show where the normals laughed at them and their meaningless lives.

Vizzini
Member
Reply to  Drake
4 years ago

At the time it was just a comical portrayal of the kind of vapid narcissists that inhabit NYC. No, it wasn’t. That was just its outward form. What it was was a targeted normalization of vapid narcissism. It spawned so much imitation in popular culture — double-dipping, “talk to the hand,” “close talker,” on and on and on. It taught people to imitate the characters on Seinfeld. Certainly, some of the attitudes expressed then are forbidden now. That’s just a function of the ratchet effect over the decades since. Like all the other popular culture, Seinfeld was ratcheting things in… Read more »

Nunnya Bidnez, jr.
Nunnya Bidnez, jr.
Reply to  Vizzini
4 years ago

“It taught people to imitate the characters on Seinfeld.”
People love to imitate characters in most TV or movies.. most people don’t really have any authentic personality of their own, so they graft one on, using characters as templates. Pretending to be (if only momentarily when the need arises) Rocky Balboa, or the Terminator, or Groucho or Chico, or Emily Litella. We put on skins of characters because we have nothing real inside anymore.
The worst part is that the writers, directors and producers are latent psychopaths and sociopaths, not moral and uplifting people.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Vizzini
4 years ago

Perhaps, but when I watched Seinfeld, I found not one of the characters imitative or a desirable role model. They were funny because the were losers, stumbling meaninglessly through life. They were so pathetically broken, that you could not be sympathetic so they could only be laughed at. But that’s just me. Perhaps others of a different persuasion would use them as role models, but why is beyond me. Not a single character I can remember on the show was worth imitating in that they were anything close to successful and happy.

Stranger in a strange land
Stranger in a strange land
Reply to  Compsci
4 years ago

Just had an awful thought. All us dirt people are standing in line waiting for our soup handout. And then, our betters from behind the counter scream: no sou….well you know the rest

Federalist
Federalist
Reply to  Vizzini
4 years ago

Agreed, Vizzini. Things have gotten so bad that what was a great victory for degeneracy not too long ago is now insufficiently degenerate to pass muster.

Vizzini
Member
Reply to  Federalist
4 years ago

Once upon a time, all the Norman Lear TV shows — M*A*S*H, All in the Family, the Jeffersons, etc., were outposts of leftist propaganda. Now they seem quaintly normie, conservative, even, in some respects.

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  Vizzini
4 years ago

That stuff was called programming for a reason. In the end, a hypothetical DR society is going to have to deal with the cultural issues of degeneracy and just what is to be allowed in mass culture and what is not. The obvious and most difficult example is porn. Almost everyone uses it all the time even though it is more destructive than good (good, lower rape– bad, degeneracy) and how it is to be dealt with. If the “spirit of liberty” wind, nothing will be done, if “revolt lite” wins, nothing and if “law as written wins” , nothing… Read more »

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Vizzini
4 years ago

In spite of myself, I like Seinfeld and some other forms of degeneracy, like the band Kiss. Even Elvis. I do my best to improve.

As Rush’s Neil Peart wrote, “We fight the fire while we’re feeding the flame.”

In Covington’s novels, he imagines a time after our victory when the young people lecture the old about their degeneracy and none of them can imagine why a woman would become a lesbian.

Vizzini
Member
Reply to  LineInTheSand
4 years ago

It’s a pretty old Biblical message, one of the oldest, that sin is very alluring and pleasant.

If evil was all about drowning puppies and beating babies, hardly anyone would succumb to it.

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  Vizzini
4 years ago

Amusingly there is a roleplaying game called Kill Puppies for Satan where you play these sorts of losers , essentially Beevis and Butthead as Satanists. It gets your point across perfectly. No one would want to live in a excessively moral society and nor would such a society have much reason to build much of anything. Why bother? Everyone would be on their knees day and night earning points for the afterlife. That earthly society where sin was always caught and punished would be a dent approximation of hell. The trick is to leave a functional core intact and make… Read more »

Vizzini
Member
Reply to  abprosper
4 years ago

Everyone would be on their knees day and night earning points for the afterlife. “So don’t be vain and don’t be whiny Or else, my brother, I might just have to get medieval on your heinie” The Gospel According to Weird Al. I have to disagree. The idea that an “excessively” (I’m not sure how one defines excessive there) moral society would be a boring, oppressive or unpleasant one is part of the big lie: “Come serve Satan! We have cookies!” The more legitimately moral a society is, the better a place it is to live. The societies that people… Read more »

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  Vizzini
4 years ago

Good Weird Al catch there. People in modernity are not religious or moral enough on many fundamental issues for a high morality state. Many are fine with abortion, don’t care about pre marital sex, do not think that homosexuality is evil , like porn, don’t want to marry I could go on. Europe is even more liberal on many of those social issues. In order to force those people, very possibly the majority of them to be moral you need a big state and to arrest , imprison and very possibly kill non compliant people. Basically you become Iran or… Read more »

Vizzini
Member
Reply to  abprosper
4 years ago

The Amish communities are also highly moral and those are not pleasant places to live. Have you ever lived in one? How would you know? As for the rest about how modern people aren’t suitable for a high morality state, I reiterate my previous comment: There is no paradise on Earth, nor are Christians instructed to create one. I didn’t say I was invested in creating a high morality state, I was just disagreeing about whether high morality states are unpleasant. All you did was agree with my other statement: Very moral societies are not pleasant for very immoral people.… Read more »

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  Vizzini
4 years ago

Keep in mind here that almost no one in Europe is Christian and that most Americans are jack Christians. Society benefits the majority of people , few of us wish to LARP 1689 or be riddled with numerous commandments and taboos thank you very much. A basic pragmatic moral system will suffice. Also there is not point in arguing about what Jehovah will or will not do with non believers and this includes me. There was shocking lack of divine intervention on a massive scale in the 20th century and I doubt we’ll get any more. That said I can’t… Read more »

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  abprosper
4 years ago

I’m not interested in making people “moral”, I am interested only in that they don’t make me and mine “immoral”. That means that their immorality is never accepted, nor normalized, in the greater society.

The game plan with these people has always been to move society from intolerance, to tolerance, to acceptance, to normality, to celebration, to civil right. Defining deviancy down as has been said by Patrick Moynihan.

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  Compsci
4 years ago

I do not disagree with a word you said. Its not going to be easy though I suspect the inevitable whirlwind whose seeds were are sowing will be good in general for the freedoms of the faithful.

Wolf Barney
Wolf Barney
Reply to  Federalist
4 years ago

You’re right, today Jerry and George wouldn’t be allowed to object to being thought of as gay, even with the “not that there’s anything wrong with that” added to their objection. If someone thought Jerry and George were gay in a present day sitcom, they would have to portray it with about the same concern as if someone mistakenly thought they were left-handed or that they prefer white wine over red wine.

Drake
Drake
Reply to  Wolf Barney
4 years ago

Explains the lack of anything funny on TV. Look at the top 3 Sitcoms right now:
1. Young Sheldon – set in 1980’s Texas, so you can joke about things back then instead of now.
2. The Neighborhood – a cucky white guy in a black neighborhood, jokes are about what a pussy he is.
3. Mom – a bunch of alcoholic women – off color jokes are excused because they are “in recovery”.

You have to have an alibi to make a joke now.

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  Drake
4 years ago

This is why anime is so popular among younger men now.

The stories are un-POZed, the journeys heroic, and the gender dynamics normal.

BadThinker
BadThinker
Reply to  MemeWarVet
4 years ago

But, you have that *ridiculous* hair.

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  MemeWarVet
4 years ago

Full disclosure – I hate anime. That said, with “ackshually” exceptions on gender-bending and soy-boy memes, anime is less degenerate than Western alternatives like comics and vidya.

It’s telling that something so foreign to American sensibilities and aesthetics is front-running our (((native))) product nowadays.

The dogs really don’t like Wokie-chow.

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  Exile
4 years ago

No one does. Naughty Dog, a very good game developer famous for the Z-Poc game “The Last of Us” went so woke on the sequel than 70% of the games dev staff quit. Woke only functions when its adherents cram it down and in a market where other ideas are limited. Hence the heavy handed attempts at censorship. That said censorship per say isn’t wrong for example we justly censor child porn On the political angle keeping evil away from mush brained kids is important. Unless you are the parent teaching Leftist swill to under 21’s probably should be a… Read more »

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  abprosper
4 years ago

Anyone downvoting Ab on this – Styx lolberts who think porn is a right or why exactly? LoU sucks that bad?

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Federalist
4 years ago

There’s a humorous upside: In The Dambusters, the protagonist has a dog named Nigger. At some point, he gets a phone call, talks for a few seconds and puts down the receiver, making sadface.

“So what was that?” a friend asks.

“Nigger got run over by a car.”

Has me in stitches every time; and if not for the language police, that line would never be funny.

Drake
Drake
Reply to  Felix Krull
4 years ago

Sounds like a Chappel show skit – which is why there isn’t a Cappel Show any more.

BadThinker
BadThinker
Reply to  Drake
4 years ago

They just gave Dave Chappelle the Mark Twain Prize. They’re making him a pet again very quickly.

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  Drake
4 years ago

Dave Chappelle is the most prominent race realist in popular culture of the past quarter century.

He knew it and he had a mental breakdown because of it.

Here’s one of many great examples:

https://youtu.be/Ahhvmzr_pZo

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  MemeWarVet
4 years ago

Genius

Chad Hayden
Chad Hayden
Reply to  MemeWarVet
4 years ago

And Katt Williams. Black comedians can still do the race stuff.

RoBG
RoBG
Reply to  Felix Krull
4 years ago

I’ve listened to a few history podcasts re: the Dambusters. Each one gave a trigger warning when mentioning Wing Commander Gibson’s Labrador retriever. (FWIW, I believe he later regretted the civilian carnage that resulted from that particular operation.)

ShakenNotStirred
ShakenNotStirred
Reply to  Felix Krull
4 years ago

You jogged my noggin’. I watched The Dambusters as a kid and recall telling ma, “they just said the N word!”

I often order a cocktail named a “negroni.” You should see the reaction of other patrons in a crowded bar.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Federalist
4 years ago

Tolerance, when deployed by a Leftist, means worshiping what you rightly abhor, or else…

Veeze
Veeze
4 years ago

I’d say the American genesis of this was the Civil Rights Act, wherein our right of free association was first reduced; the law began to dictate who and what types of people you must hire and not fire. With many stops along the way, this train ran a straight path to the present day, when we are ordered to tolerate alternate lifestyles of every stripe, and cannot discriminate from those who have insect-laden dreadlocks, wear their pants below their glutes, have tatoos on their faces, hook bass lures to their ears, nose, and lips, or perhaps all of the above.… Read more »

T. Morris
T. Morris
Reply to  Veeze
4 years ago

The way of the left (radicalism) is that when you cannot persuade, make war. Total war. Legislation is the way radicalism brings weak(ened) resistance to heel. The original Civil Rights Act was written and passed in 1866. Leftist Radicalism has been with us for a long long time.

Elementary Penguin
Reply to  Veeze
4 years ago

“When you cannot persuade, legislate.”

And when you cannot legislate, get an unaccountable autocratic court ruling from a federal (((J)))udge.

sirlancelot
sirlancelot
4 years ago

Deep Thoughts by the Z man 😎Good morning sir. Growing up as a kid every neighborhood had some crazy old cat lady living in a ramshackle dump of a house. The lawn was always two feet high , but nobody really paid any attention to her and we certainly didn’t stop there at Halloween time 😜 Now those crazy old hags are running the country. Strong men kept those weirdos in the closet . The cat ladies are now having them parade center stage. I miss the moral code practiced by Christian religion. However I won’t shed a tear for… Read more »

Forever Templar
Forever Templar
Reply to  sirlancelot
4 years ago

Hadn’t thought about it in years, but it did seem like *every* neighborhood had that one weirdo lady like you described. The one I knew as a kid was a war widow, that war she couldn’t recall, but it was “the War” and it was “over there” where “all them gooks” were. They were usually pretty harmless, though. The ones running around now are different. They’ll complain marriage as an institution is maintaining a barefoot, pregnant existence whilst tied to a stove, but that standard is even too high for your a modern girl to accomplish.

David_Wright
Member
Reply to  Forever Templar
4 years ago

It isn’t just crazy old ladies. My neighborhood has some really strange and odd kids. I must have to yell at them ten times a day to get off my lawn and still they persist.

SidVic
SidVic
Reply to  David_Wright
4 years ago

I found some toddler todling around in my yard the other day. His mother was with him. So I yelled “get off my grass, tick turd (that what i call kids). His mom yelled back ” sorry he likes to pick the flowers (dandelions)” . Touche, well played. I am not afforded dignity or respect in my own neighborhood.

TomHarmon
TomHarmon
Reply to  SidVic
4 years ago

Demand respect via garden hose. Run one to reach and when toddler or his mom encroaches your property grab the hose, loosen the valve and give them a good spraying. You can do that on your property so long as they don’t drown.

nailheadtom
Reply to  David_Wright
4 years ago

Yes, it’s really strange and odd of kids to wander across someone’s yard. It’s important and normal that a six-year old have a grasp of the concept of property, especially when it’s property that’s been around for a couple of billion years and likely will continue to be around that long, unlike yourself. Your predecessors stole the land from the natives and then sold it to others, eventually yourself. So it must be yours. After all, you pay the taxes on it and there’s an entry in an office somewhere that says it’s yours. Those ignorant children, untrained by similarly… Read more »

TomHarmonAllAmerican
TomHarmonAllAmerican
Reply to  nailheadtom
4 years ago

And when said six-year-old kid breaks his arm the mama sues the property owner for failure to provide an environment safe for children. You lose years of your life and possibly the very property which you had never protected. Metaphor for America circa 2020. So sorry for your loss.

David_Wright
Member
Reply to  nailheadtom
4 years ago

You dense dope , you just don’t get humor do you?

Firewire
Firewire
Reply to  David_Wright
4 years ago

David Wright, we’ve got some ‘splainin’to do, which is the death of humor.

Vizzini
Member
Reply to  sirlancelot
4 years ago

They protected child rapists and that’s something that can never be forgiven. Do you realize that the sexual abuse rate in public schools is higher than in the Catholic abuse scandal? But you will not find similar orchestrated outrage against the public schools, because public schools are the churches and propaganda factories of the degenerates. Do you think the sort of people who applaud “Desmond is Amazing” really care about the defilement of children? Almost all the abusers were homosexuals who had infiltrated the Catholic Church with the express intent of degrading and defiling it. The hatred heaped upon the… Read more »

Nunnya Bidnez, jr.
Nunnya Bidnez, jr.
Reply to  Vizzini
4 years ago

most of what you’ve said re: homosexuals and the church also applies to the Boy Scouts.

tullamore92
tullamore92
Reply to  Nunnya Bidnez, jr.
4 years ago

Came here to say this. Step One: Agitate non-stop for BSA to accept gay Scout Masters; Step Two: Decry any attempt at oversight of said SMs as homophobia, etc.; Step 3: Act shocked – SHOCKED – that there’s pedophilia going on in BSA!; Step 4: Profit!

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Nunnya Bidnez, jr.
4 years ago

Yep, and the Boy Scouts were pilloried until they openly allowed homosexuals to join and lead. Until then, if you were gay, you either kept it very quite—as in no one knew—or you were politely told to volunteer elsewhere. Any incident of a Scout Master “alone” with a scout was grounds for dismissal. Most of the Scout Masters I knew—if not all—were family men with their own children. That was a pretty good indication of an honest commitment. We had hours of training as how to handle situations with the boys in the troop—mostly concerning the prevention of impropriety. I… Read more »

c matt
c matt
Reply to  Compsci
4 years ago

The Church’s problem was relying on “experts” who had Her destruction at heart, rather than its own timeless teachings.

But, like a cleansing forest fire, it is needed to clear the dead underbrush for new growth to rise from the ashes. Unfortunately the process takes down some good trees as well.

SidVic
SidVic
Reply to  Compsci
4 years ago

They can’t tolerate boys or men having thier own space/refuge. The boyscouts had to be destroyed/

Oldrider
Oldrider
Reply to  Compsci
4 years ago

Not sure if I agree about homosexuals joining the Catholic church intending to bring it down, but this is my belief: The root of the church’s child abuse problem is simply it’s insistence on priest celebacy: Young, and sincere young men take the vows in good faith… But eventually hormones win out, and sadly, little boys are the vicims. This ridiculous insistence on celibacy (which has no Biblical basis), is also why the Church has a hard time keeping Priests. And, how often do you hear of Protestant ministers or Rabbis (who are free to marry & have families) diddling… Read more »

tarstarkas
tarstarkas
Reply to  Vizzini
4 years ago

ABSOLUTELY! The very same people attacking the Church today are the ones who fought tooth and nail to get the homosexuals into the church in the first place.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  tarstarkas
4 years ago

Just as the ones protesting “homophobia” are the same ones advocating on behalf of the Sand Hutus.

Member
Reply to  Vizzini
4 years ago

Amen Vizzini.

The orchestrated outrage has permeated the consciences of otherwise good, decent Catholic men. One can observe it in the empty pews, the closing of Catholic primary and secondary schools, the reluctance to become involved with the local parish and its charitable and social activities, and the jokes about priests.

tristan
tristan
Reply to  Vizzini
4 years ago

Another thing to notice. Its the church, or its the boy scouts, or its boarding schools, or its some other unconnected thing. Yet no one says. Its the homosexuals in almost every case. No one notices or pretends to notice all these things are homosexual and are intrinsic to the behavior. Child abuse in the vast majority of cases is homosexuality. Indeed something in the order of 60% of homosexuals have also been abused as children and its nearly all males. The pushing of the behavior is the normalizing systematic and large scale male child rape and there is no… Read more »

Chief
Chief
Reply to  tristan
4 years ago

The thinking, which really took hold back in the 1960’s and ’70’s, was that being a homosexual, in itself, was not a sin in the eyes of the church, but committing homosexual acts was. And celibacy was pre-ordained for all of the clergy, so in theory, becoming a priest meant that having sex with anybody was off the table…for the rest of your life. In theory. So you’re a gay Catholic boy, you’re experiencing some serious self-loathing for all of these creepy thoughts and attractions you’re experiencing, until it occurs to you that if you join the priesthood, you’re giving… Read more »

tonaludatus
tonaludatus
Reply to  Chief
4 years ago

re: “And celibacy was pre-ordained for all of the clergy, so in theory, becoming a priest meant that having sex with anybody was off the table…”

In theory, theory and practice are the same, in practice they ain’t.

c matt
c matt
Reply to  Chief
4 years ago

The difference is that straight priests are not living in close quarters with a bunch of single women. The percentage of homosexual priests who can actually keep their vows is probably lower than the Wuhan Flu death rate.

Oldrider
Oldrider
Reply to  Chief
4 years ago

I really don’t believe that (most of) these Priests are homo when they take their vows. ” But if you join the priesthood, you’re giving up all sex, and dedicating your life to God “. I believe they are sincere when they take this vow, but …. Man is a sexual creature – and to deny this is foolhardy. Many just can’t keep the vow, and move to homosexuality to satisfy their urges – it also happens in prisons, straight men often turn to other men. You can’t ignore biology, without tragic results. Let priests marry, and most of this… Read more »

Boarwild
Boarwild
Reply to  tristan
4 years ago

How else can they “procreate”? Homos have to corrupt new kids to fill their ranks.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Vizzini
4 years ago

I’m reading Sam Harris “The End of Faith.” Now, he has it in for all religion, but he makes a strong case that Islam is the worst of the lot. I’d much rather be, er um, “ministered unto” by a priest than (tick all that apply): have my clitoris cut out without anesthesia, be forced to cover my body head-to-toe, risk death (or sometimes die) because the building was on fire, and I wasn’t suitably attired to be rescued, beaten, raped, stoned to death, even for something not my fault. I’m sure that men have gotten equally barbaric treatment. Oh… Read more »

BTP
Member
Reply to  Vizzini
4 years ago

– Know a guy who is a priest very much of the, “Can these damn queens die, already?” school. I recommended seminaries make two additional required courses: a semester of hunting and a semester of boxing. It would be pass/fail: you can’t graduate until you kill a deer and punch someone hard enough to knock him out. Would definitely weed out the Disney princesses, which is why it can’t happen, but he thought it was a good idea. Probably helps that he’s a hunter.

T. Morris
T. Morris
Reply to  BTP
4 years ago

Reminds me of the old joke about the man propositioned by a homosexual in a public restroom. Following a little verbal back and forth and inappropriate ‘laying on of hands’ by the latter, the heterosexual guy finally had enough and hauled off and gave the other one of his best ‘haymakers,’ knocking him to the floor. The other picked himself up and brushed himself off, cleared his head a bit. Whereupon a big smile came upon his face as he said, “there is only one thing I like better than [degenerate homosexual act], and that is fighting!” Which is why… Read more »

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  Vizzini
4 years ago

Viz, I only condemn the Church to the extent that it lacks the institutional mechanisms and will to put a stop to this subhuman garbage. They’ve had many years to put their house in order. It took them until 2018 to take action on [redacted]-worthy McCarrick despite decades of known pederasty and predation on seminary students et al. I’m as much a believer in hierarchy as anyone, but that deference comes with a responsibility to protect those who respect that authority. The Church has sadly failed to respect its flock and abused its magisterial authority for decades now, even prior… Read more »

Bill_Mullins
Member
Reply to  Vizzini
4 years ago

The real problem is that the Catholic Church departed from the New Testament pattern, first by extolling celibacy and asceticism and finally when Gregory VI laid down the (canon) law and made celibacy mandatory for the priesthood. The New Testament pattern for ordained leaders (Bishops and Deacons) to be married (to only one women. polygamists were not allowed) and have children – believing children at that. It was only centuries later that a strain of asceticism crept in and the requirement to be married was relaxed. When Gregory VI imposed celibacy, the priesthood – especially the Italian priesthood – was… Read more »

tarstarkas
tarstarkas
Reply to  sirlancelot
4 years ago

Well, keep in mind that the Catholic Church allowed homosexuals into the church just before this all started happening. Vatican II may have officially ended, but unofficially it lives on. They are SJWs wearing religious costumes. Once the church completely excises them and burns their writings, it can return to normal. Whether or not it is corrupted beyond repair is yet to be seen though.

John Smith
John Smith
Member
Reply to  tarstarkas
4 years ago

I think a few of the major denominations are cucked and cooked, Tarstarkas. The true faith is going underground now. Many are found on line and carefully out of the mainstream – much like our gracious blog host. Or they retreat into the smaller, tinier churches where it is harder to target them.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  John Smith
4 years ago

Orthodoxy is holding the line.

Dave
Dave
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
4 years ago

Orthodoxy must hold the line.
As a lapsed Catholic who went through 12 years of Catholic education, I have seriously considered conversion to Orthodoxy.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Dave
4 years ago

I’m a Methodist and having considered doing the same.

EgonSpenglerThatOtherSpengler
EgonSpenglerThatOtherSpengler
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
4 years ago

I converted from Episcopal to Armenian Orthodox. I have a nominal trace of Armenian bloodline and I was welcomed with open arms despite resembling the young Val Kilmer. Language in this case was the hardest challenge involved. I love the Orthodox church and its community.

Deana
Deana
Reply to  EgonSpenglerThatOtherSpengler
4 years ago

I’m curious what it is that attracts you to Orthodoxy? I don’t know much about it but what little I do know has impressed me. Plus the art is just phenomenal.

Boris
Boris
Reply to  Deana
4 years ago

Its simple as that .They have the original new testament.New testament in the first years after the death of JESUS ,what we do not exactly have original coppy was writen only in Greek.The oldest coppy what we have is called Codex Vaticanus.The name suggest LATIN ,but is called that only because is keep in Vatican .Its in Greek .The results of the dating show c300-325.We know that the original appostles in first century,this who witnessed and spoke personally with Jesus have writen the Bible only in Greek .Eastern Roman empire where the orthodox chirch come from called Byzantium established first… Read more »

tarstarkas
tarstarkas
Reply to  John Smith
4 years ago

Well, there is a ray of hope in individual churches. While the denominations are run by SJWs, there are still good individual churches.
James Edward’s local church was given an ultimatum by the national church headquarters to excommunicate him for crimes against racial justice and his church stood behind him and called their bluff and I think the whole congregation was expelled. That will be a strong church.
The individual congregations need to understand that the first demand leads to the 900th demand that they worship Satan and molest children.

Glenfilthie
Glenfilthie
Member
Reply to  tarstarkas
4 years ago

Correct. These cretins keep prattling about “church doctrine”. There is no church doctrine – there is only God’s doctrine. The bible means what it says, and says what it means. The church is not the faith; and those that abandon both their church and their faith because they can’t distinguish between the two… are literally throwing the baby out with the bath water…

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  tarstarkas
4 years ago

I used to think so as well, then came Pope Francis. The corruption is beyond repair.

Member
Reply to  tarstarkas
4 years ago

Always important to remember that it was Jewish “converts” who led Vatican 2

https://forward.com/opinion/159955/converts-who-changed-the-church/

Vizzini
Member
Reply to  My_Comment
4 years ago

Every single time.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  sirlancelot
4 years ago

It wasn’t just your generation. Per Wiki, priests have been forbidden to marry since 1563. Stands to reason there’s been a whole lotta buggery goin’ on since then.* In an unrelated twist, have you ever wished that Weird Al or somebody would do a version of The Who’s “My Generation” with a real stu-stu-stutterer doing vocals? Why yes, this does fit Zman’s essay: that is an example of a joke that may once have been acceptable (not that I claim “funny”) but no longer 🙂 *Although from my Spanish lit readings, I recall the humorous comment that in Spain “Priests… Read more »

tullamore92
tullamore92
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
4 years ago

“Stands to reason there’s been a whole lotta buggery goin’ on since then.”
By your statement, Ben, you imply that if you couldn’t get it in the female pink, you’d be happy to put it in the male stink. These guys – even (especially?) back then – didn’t go gay because they joined the Church; they joined the only all-male revue in town because they were gay. Regardless, that’s a separate issue from modern Catholic gay pedophilia.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  tullamore92
4 years ago

Exactly, Tulsa. Ben posts another illogical conclusion. Celibacy, or the lack thereof, is not this issue. Homosexuality is. The homo’s would love to conflate the issue. Anything to deny their debauchery and inherent evil nature.

Boarwild
Boarwild
Reply to  sirlancelot
4 years ago

Cat Lady: that’s Nancy Pelousy to a “T” ;<)

Member
Reply to  sirlancelot
4 years ago

There was always one mother who would never let her sons play because she was always worried about them hurting themselves. We used to pity the boys but now those Karens are used by the powers that be to keep us in line

Boris
Boris
Reply to  sirlancelot
4 years ago

The Catholic Church abuse is immensely highlighted by today left wing press.It happened but if you compare the abuse of kids in atheist circles with that in the church is still 10 times lower.There is not any doubt about this .The abuse in ultra left Liberal society even is done openly on front of us without any repricutions .

Nunnya Bidnez, jr.
Nunnya Bidnez, jr.
4 years ago

It’s partly the confusion between being a libertarian or being a libertine.
“libertine: a person who is morally or sexually unrestrained, a dissolute man; a profligate; a freethinker in religious matters.”
It’s the tendency for Americans to do everything to excess, to lack any constraints on your own behavior or desires.
We’ve been taught by media and advertising to want everything, to grasp at everything, without any concern for others; to be boorish Jokers; to live our lives as if it was a TV sit-com.

Epaminondas
Member
Reply to  Nunnya Bidnez, jr.
4 years ago

I always wanted to live my life as if I were a regular on “Gunsmoke”. The eternal Festus.

MBlanc46
Reply to  Epaminondas
4 years ago

More of a Chester man, myself. Being the Doc wouldn’t be too bad, either.

CaptainMike
CaptainMike
4 years ago

This insane overreaction to KungFlu has my financial apocalypse antenna twitching. An environment of scarcity may be closer than anyone thinks. Hobbes’ “Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.” may be right around the corner. There just doesn’t seem to be any kind of rational exit strategy whatsoever. The great unravelling may have finally arrived.
In which case all of these great essays by Zman- (2020 has been an amazing year for your work BTW, really stellar) are only so much incendiary Roman fiddling.

Whitney
Member
Reply to  CaptainMike
4 years ago

I know, most of the people alive have never experienced scarcity and because they’re so poorly read and educated can’t really even conceive of it in the past and certainly do not understand that it’s the norm for Humanity. I’ve always been selfishly torn and really hoped that it would just be after I was dead but I guess if it’s going to happen I’d rather be when I still have strength and some fight in me

NJ Person
NJ Person
4 years ago

Perhaps our affluence has resulted not only in medical diabetes but also in intellectual diabetes.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  NJ Person
4 years ago

Well, yes. In a sense you are correct. Being stupid is no longer a life threatening debility as it was 200-300 years or so ago. Hence the brighter bulbs in the population have less and less children while the stupid live on to pass down their genes. But I note your quip.

c matt
c matt
Reply to  Compsci
4 years ago

The stupid we have always had with us. Being stupid was not a life threatening debility – it was a social advancement debility. Thanks to democracy, any idiot can grab power, and many do.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  c matt
4 years ago

Not sure I completely agree c Matt. Yes, stupid people are bred anew every generation, but whether they live to reproduce is another matter. I believe it was Greg Clark in the “The Son Also Rises” where he took the medieval birth records from England and showed the rich had more children reach maturity than the peasant (might have been an earlier work of Clark’s however). In any event, the strain of humankind was improved generation to generation (eugenics). Today it’s decidedly different (dysgenics). But you are correct in the sense that more stupid people equals a larger voting block… Read more »

Vizzini
Member
4 years ago

Even so, there does seem to be something else. Liberal democracy has not produced great art or great architecture. The Greeks and Romans left us great things that still inspire the imagination of the man who happens to gaze upon them. The castles and cathedrals of the medieval period still awe us. I happened upon one of the crazy modern internet cults the other day in the form of a video that showed a lot of 19th and early 20th century structures and explained how they were a sign that there had been some kind of very recent hidden civilizational… Read more »

Outdoorspro
Outdoorspro
Reply to  Vizzini
4 years ago

It’s the same mentality that says, “We couldn’t possibly have gone to the Moon, because we can’t do it now.” It’s a myopic view that places oneself as the center, alpha and omega of all that is human history and experience. It’s one of our single biggest obstacles.

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  Vizzini
4 years ago

Yes Vizzini, oral and written history was an easy fix. Physical reminders of our civilization’s high achievements, however, are a bit trickier. The aliens bit is a nice touch, but a trip through any curated museum of history reveals their favorite approach: to etch away the “excessive” details those great structures with the acid rain of white man bad. You see, all that beauty and ingenuity was only possible because slaves or oppression or theft from more noble peoples. The moral planer of the modern prog mind virus runs across the landscape, blunting everything into a flat, grey block where… Read more »

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Screwtape
4 years ago

Screwtape, this is of a piece with Leftie’s rewriting of the past, to shape the present and the future. Once I was made aware of this sort of thing, here on this blog, I can see it pop up anytime that Leftie has a hand in anything.

Maus
Maus
Reply to  Screwtape
4 years ago

De gustibus non disputandem. Concerning tastes there can be no dispute used to be an aphorism encapsulating the attitude of to each his own so go along to get along. Now, of course, it is a diktat that strongly suggests you STFU if your aesthetic judgment differs from that of the Cloud People. Indeed, even egalitarianism is ultimately incoherent because to a Goodthinker all opinions are clearly not equally valid.

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Vizzini
4 years ago

Priorities. Philly doesn’t have a big subway system because they broke the bank building city hall. I think Kevin Bacon’s dad called it a city of monuments. Maybe it was somebody else idk. They also didn’t have skyscrapers before the 80s because they wanted William Penn to stand over the city. What a great place Philly must’ve been! These days they’re increasingly trying to be the 6th borough. Gross.

Vizzini
Member
Reply to  Paintersforms
4 years ago

I used to visit it as a kid with my Dad in the ’70s. It was a tremendously beautiful city then.

A couple years ago, my oldest daughter was working in Philly and toured many of the same historical sites I toured as a child. All the guides and narratives were so full of “Slavery! White man bad!” she couldn’t stand it. The neighborhoods have really deteriorated, too.

Nunnya Bidnez, jr.
Nunnya Bidnez, jr.
Reply to  Vizzini
4 years ago

how many years of “minority” Democratic rule did it take to ruin it?
It seems that most of our ruined cities have been governed by Dems for a long time.. Detroit, Philly, Pittsburgh.

UFO
UFO
Reply to  Nunnya Bidnez, jr.
4 years ago

Lol.

What’s with all the funny euphemisms for “blacks”?

No doubt Dem city leadership sucks, and makes white places worse. But… Portland is a hell of alot nicer than Detroit… wonder why.

KGB
KGB
Reply to  UFO
4 years ago

I had this discussion with my office mate the other day — a guy who’s 90% on our side, including racial distinctions. I spoke dismissively about Hannity and he asked why. I brought up the fact that when the discussion turns to the dysfunction of places like Detroit and Baltimore, Hannity will yammer on about how it’s the result of decades of Democratic leadership but he never seems to mention the other thing that those two cities have in common and in abundance. I got a thoughtful silence, which I took as a good sign.

RoBG
RoBG
Reply to  UFO
4 years ago

“Run by Democrats” is one of Ed Driscoll’s favorite memes (he never tires of it) over at Insty’s. Then you point out both Portlands (ME and OR,) Burlington VT and, for now, Boston MA. Part of it is the weather, of course, but mostly it’s still the other thing. 🙂

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Vizzini
4 years ago

Er, my U.S. history is spotty, but Pennsylvania never had slaves, correct?

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
4 years ago

There were slaves. Phased it out beginning late 18th century I think. George Washington was allowed to keep slaves while he was president.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Paintersforms
4 years ago

They don’t call it Philthadelphia for nothing, now, right?

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Vizzini
4 years ago

An important aspect of modern architecture is that building big is no big deal. Some Saudi prince just has to wave his checkbook around, and two years later, he has a monument that makes the Parthenon seem puny and insignificant. Architecture has been commodified, that’s why it has been cheapened. We could easily build cathedrals and pyramids, but what would be the point? The real wonders of modern architecture are space stations, suspension bridges, deep-sea drilling platforms and particle smashers; constructions that stretch our abilities to the limit. The problem is similar with art: after the invention of photography, the… Read more »

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Felix Krull
4 years ago

Beauty vs. utility.

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Paintersforms
4 years ago

Beauty vs. utility.

The former usually follows the latter. If you can’t see beauty in the Large Hadron Collider – the world’s most powerful microscope – how about these:
comment image
comment image

Such is the case, not just for engineering, but also for classical architecture and art. Classical architecture is build to keep the weather out, classical art is made to tell a story or, more mundanely, to produce a facsimile of a person or a landscape.

Beauty for beauty’s sake usually leads to degeneracy.

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Felix Krull
4 years ago

But the LHC will be disassembled someday. ISS will burn up in reentry. There are museums for paintings but not so much photography. Nothing wrong with utility per se, but if you want something to be valued and preserved, make it beautiful.

BadThinker
BadThinker
Reply to  Paintersforms
4 years ago

Buildings fall down too. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Paintersforms
4 years ago

Sic transit gloria mundi…

Most cathedrals have been rebuilt several times – usually, only the columns are original, sometimes a few of the walls. And, I suspect, they were not maintained for near a millennium because the were beautiful, but because they served a function.

Which gives me an excuse to post this absolute gem of a documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h57bqssrAMs

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Felix Krull
4 years ago

People are up in arms at the thought of modernizing Notre Dame.

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Paintersforms
4 years ago

Notre Dame was modernized in the 18th C., when they put that steeple on the transept – and to be frank, it didn’t add to the building, I would argue, because it was put there for purely aesthetic reasons.

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Felix Krull
4 years ago

Sure. Sometimes you don’t pull it off, especially if it’s forced. Kind of like the minarets around the Hagia Sophia, the Lourve pyramid. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Felix Krull
4 years ago

“The purpose of art is delectation.”–Poussin

RoBG
RoBG
Reply to  Felix Krull
4 years ago

Both of those trains are wonderful in their own way. A present-day MTA/MBTA train or subway car is emblematic of everything wrong in this wretched post-modern world.

Nunnya Bidnez, jr.
Nunnya Bidnez, jr.
Reply to  RoBG
4 years ago

“A present-day MTA subway car is emblematic of everything wrong in this wretched post-modern world.”

I dunno, the homeless seem to like them

Yves Vannes
Yves Vannes
Member
Reply to  Felix Krull
4 years ago

There are forms of beauty that are not for their own sake nor do they follow utility. They don’t occur in the modern world but they were common in traditional high cultures. In Europe and in East Asia in great palaces and especially in temples, churches and cathedrals you will find beautifully crafted works of art built into rooftop structures. Statues, shrines inscriptions, etc. They are in places where no man will see them with the exception of a monk who may sweep off the fall and winter debris. They are not there to inspire religious awe in the faithful.… Read more »

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Yves Vannes
4 years ago

Good point, but I was clever enough to put in a “usually”. That said, I’m not too crazy about statuary on cathedrals. Maybe it’s my Lutheran background, but it’s like painting flames on a Rolls Royce.

our utilitarian obsessions with everything deadens our spirit

I don’t believe the two are connected. What deadens our spirit is modern art – art for art’s sake – not our machines. At least, I can’t see the connection myself. A subway train or a car doesn’t offend my sense of beauty or spiritual tranquility like modern art does.

Yves Vannes
Yves Vannes
Member
Reply to  Felix Krull
4 years ago

Some thing are purely utilitarian in nature others used to have a much more pronounced spiritual resonance. We now throw them all into the same basket. I didn’t mean to imply that a car needs to be something other than a car.

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  Felix Krull
4 years ago

Felix, good point. This touches on what I said today (and in the past here) about updating narrative and mythology. Modernity isn’t inherently soulless – we’ve failed to “ensoul” it in our culture.

There’s a devilish mix of right and wrong-headedness in the reaction vs. progress debate. I come down on the side of “modernity happened – we have to deal with it.”

That said, there are features of the current implementation of modernity (globalism, consumerism, etc) that would be better replaced by time-tested pre-modern practices like ethno-nationalism and social rather than material-oriented cultures.

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Exile
4 years ago

Modernity isn’t inherently soulless – we’ve failed to “ensoul” it in our culture. Just so. I prefer to distinguish between technological modernity and spiritual modernity; I think they’re only loosely connected. Most technologies have a flip side, but that is rarely the fault of technology. The internet allows camgirls, prostitution without the stigma, as Ramzpaul pontificated on a day or two back, but the internet is also a vehicle for freedom; when I was young, back in the eighties, an American newspaper moved for no less than $10 and the selection of books must’ve been about one tenth of a… Read more »

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Felix Krull
4 years ago

Don’t get me wrong, I think an old XKE is beautiful, a pair of wayfarers has timeless cool. I think modernity skews utility over beauty because of its preference for novelty. If the revolution never ends it’s a waste to put the extra effort into something you know is going to be torn down.

Tykebomb
Tykebomb
4 years ago

For Eastern Europe it has to be phones effect on women. Capitalism is very good at giving you the cheapest possible substitute for things you need. We need food, so capitalism gives us sugar and soy facsimiles designed to be consumed without triggering the feeling of being full. Our brightest minds in Silicon Vallet get paid a lot of money to sell you ads and micro-transactions. women are uniquely susceptible to this due to their hypergamous nature, they always want someone better and social media is there to provide. But not really.

The Babe
The Babe
4 years ago

I think television was a big part of the turn towards atomization, anomie, and degeneracy.

It instantly de-localized entertainment and information. Suddenly our entertainment and information came from far away, by strangers who didn’t necessarily like us or have our best interests at heart.

Plus people stopped going to clubs, pubs, bowling alleys, or just the neigbor’s house, and instead starting becoming passive couch potatoes at home.

I actually read the ginormous Bowling Alone in my salad years, and the TL;DR basically is: “TV did it.”

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  The Babe
4 years ago

To take a step back from that: TV has been a part of our daily lives since the 1950’s. This means no one under 80 can remember a world before it, and no one under 100 functioned as an adult in a world in which it didn’t exist.

To ever move beyond TV would require us to LARP as a society we never knew; as if the humans from “Beneath the Planet of the Apes” took the Statue of Liberty, dug it up, and put it back onto the pedestal.

Hilltop
Hilltop
Reply to  MemeWarVet
4 years ago

The interesting thing is that the internet is replacing TV for a lot of people, and its effects are hard to predict so early in the game.

AnotherAnon
AnotherAnon
4 years ago

The Miss Havisham of old always had some tragic circumstance – she fell through the cracks during life. Cat ladies of today are mass produced by the academy and are defective from the moment they leave the factory.

G Lordon Giddy
G Lordon Giddy
4 years ago

I think of the fate of the American Indian as something similar to our fate in the 21st century. Before European civilization arrived the Indian lived in a sort of free state where his living depended on the male hunting skills. Alcohol dependence was unknown because there was no alcohol. Strangers with technology and unknown vices could not replace him because there were no European strangers. His civilization was not easy and there were wars between tribes but it was his civilization. I tend to think it’s the combination now of strangers and our own technology that undermine our psychic.… Read more »

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  G Lordon Giddy
4 years ago

Our conquerors will not be as kind to us as we were to Chief Runningwater

Wolf Barney
Wolf Barney
Reply to  G Lordon Giddy
4 years ago

Like the white man during the time of the American Indian, the immigrants from the third world keep coming, year after year, in massive numbers, and never ending. Like the American Indian, the white man is in big trouble.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Wolf Barney
4 years ago

Heap big trouble…

UFO
UFO
Reply to  Wolf Barney
4 years ago

And, the average white man is simply unable to comprehend *just how many* of them are crammed into South Asia, Latin America, and now Africa. There are 23 million whites in canada. 1.4 billion live in India alone. We’re not even a fraction of their size. Yet the average white smiles happily at the new Indian family down the street – after all, our ancestors were immigrants too! They will continue to pour in until we no longer exist. The tragedy of the white man is that he is going down without a fight. The feather Indians fought for centuries… Read more »

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  G Lordon Giddy
4 years ago

“Finding some small reservations in this world somewhere.”

Never forget what they have taken- but worse, what we strove, and fought for, and took millennia to build- we gave it away.

We fricking GAVE it away.
They should have paid, paid through the nose, trembling in adoration, fear, and abject gratitude for what crumbs we allowed at ruinous price.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Alzaebo
4 years ago

Why? From a Medium (hard Left) article on Vox Dei and Zman:

Vox Dei: “Raping and killing a woman is demonstrably more attractive to women than behaving like a gentleman,” he advises. “And women, before all the inevitable snowflaking commences, please note that there is absolutely nothing to argue about here. It is an established empirical fact.”

https://medium.com/rally-point-perspectives/three-trump-insurgency-blogs-you-should-know-about-a40a6c860a9f

Who gets gushing love letters in prison?
Soy Goy or Psycho Killer?
That Parkland nerd got thousands. 1000s!

Lineman
Lineman
Reply to  Alzaebo
4 years ago

We gave it away because we were brainwashed or seduced into being every man for himself losing our collective power that we had to hold against the darkness…

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  G Lordon Giddy
4 years ago

The crucial difference in this otherwise black-pilled analogy is our numbers. Relative to those who seek to displace us*, we’re much more numerous than the feather Indians (many of which were White-mixed, particularly in the East – by the Colonial Era). Our main problems are awareness and organization, not population. The first two can be fixed in the short to mid-term. Without enough Whites in general, it would be almost impossible to gain ground. We’re not there yet. * It’s not 200 million Whites vs. the World, I’m talking inside our own nations. We’re not so wide open (yet) that… Read more »

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
4 years ago

Funny how the academic named in the piece chooses to blame a religious group – one for whom “turn the other cheek” is a part of their moral code.

Funny how said religious group had prosperous and orderly lands until a certain other religious group showed up (after being kicked out of 109 other countries).

Funny how this academic won’t name the other group.

John Smith
John Smith
Member
Reply to  thezman
4 years ago

LOL!!!

Yes, I noticed, MWV. Jews figure prominently in all this but at some point, we have to take the blame for this. It’s us white guys letting the vibrants off their leashes, it’s us guys letting our women make war on us and belittle us, it’s us guys stuffing ourselves with soy and guilt, and then going back to the SJW’s for more.

We are losing focus. It’s eassy to do, and get distracted by the failures of others. We need to take ownership of ours, and do something constructive about them.

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  John Smith
4 years ago

I certainly agree – there is a balance to be struck between blaming the tribe for everything and letting them totally off the hook. The fact is, we have very little ability to do anything about anything and have not had that ability for quite a long time. The tribe is not the only reason for that, but they are a hell of a lot more than 1% of the reason. I seek Pareto Principle solutions – correct the small thing that causes a disproportionate amount of your issues first. The fact that we won’t have utopia afterwards is not… Read more »

RadioFreeEurope
RadioFreeEurope
Reply to  thezman
4 years ago

If I taste Jew in my sandwich, it’s because schlomo’s symbols are printed on the labels for each ingredient and I pay for the certification. Oh, and only a small percentage of schlomos keep kosher and they buy their products from other Jews, not the same stuff I purchase.

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  thezman
4 years ago

Jews are MSG – tasteless conflict-enhancers in the social sandwich. If we start with good ingredients, we don’t need (((MSG))). Send it back.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  thezman
4 years ago

No, but some of use notice that the deli only serves kosher meat.

T. Morris
T. Morris
Reply to  thezman
4 years ago

I’ve eaten “tuna salad” essentially made the same way since I was a very small child. However, about four years ago, or somewhere thereabouts, our DiL introduced a new (to us-to me) ingredient- green olives. The taste of the green olive additive was, as you can imagine, overwhelming to yours truly, kind of like adding anchovies to my pizza (you just don’t do that!). Now, I like green olives fine, but putting them in my tuna salad is … way out there. If you think I’m going to react to the novelty nicely, or without even noticing, you’re crazier’n a… Read more »

sam the man
Reply to  thezman
4 years ago

Well Z , some here like Kosher food.

Schlomo
Schlomo
Reply to  sam the man
4 years ago

Yes, and we call them wild beasts. For every food category, there is a product sold that is qualitatively superior to a marked Kosher product. All.

G Lordon Giddy
G Lordon Giddy
Reply to  MemeWarVet
4 years ago

I recently reviewed again the English civil war.
We were pretty good at cluster fucking ourselves before the Jews got involved.
Not saying the usual suspects always have our best intrests in mind.
They don’t .
But we have to get a determined mindset for our own civilization and learn to ignore harpy Jews just like we need to ignore bitchy blacks and feminist women.
We have that ability.
And I am talking to myself too.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  G Lordon Giddy
4 years ago

Bitchy blacks and feminist women aren’t the brains, organization and money behind the the forces that would destroy your life and my life if we tried to organize. I agree that whites need to focus on ourselves and that Jews aren’t some omnipotent force that cause all of our problems. However, to claim that they’re just another group or that we can simply ignore them is disingenuous. We win this fight by recruiting, building communities and having a positive identity to offer Joe Normie, not by crying about “the Jews.” But if you think for one second that influential Jews… Read more »

G Lordon Giddy
G Lordon Giddy
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
4 years ago

I agree good points.
They will fight us.
But we must have the attitude that we can only defeat ourselves.
We will win in every circumstance.
The elephant in the room that we don’t like to think about is that is there may not be enough of us to save anything let alone the entirety of western civilization.

Chad Hayden
Chad Hayden
Reply to  G Lordon Giddy
4 years ago

“Excuses, no matter how valid, are never impressive.”

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  G Lordon Giddy
4 years ago

They’re aren’t enough of us. We aren’t going to save the entirety of Western Civilization. The best we can hope for is to save a portion and to regrow from better stock. This war will be won or lost by our ability to build even a small community capable to protecting itself. What I mean by that is: – Businesses willing hire people fired for not being PC – Legal organizations with the resources to fight back against the onslaught of eventual lawsuits so individuals don’t go bankrupt. Later, those organizations can even go on the offensive – Political organizations… Read more »

Lineman
Lineman
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
4 years ago

Well said Citizen and should be heeded by everyone here…

Forever Templar
Forever Templar
Reply to  G Lordon Giddy
4 years ago

I think it’s also about time to cut off the antisemites who are still talking in circles, allegories, and worse, memes, etc, about the Juden. It’s stupid and vapid. You’re already in this camp, you’re already considered pond scum by your betters, quit circle jerking it and talking like you’re hushing on about some secret cabal. Not referring to you, BTW; speaking in general.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Forever Templar
4 years ago

Wise person (Zman maybe?) said: the best way to avoid the SJW and their ilk is to just ignore them. Also there is the view, correct in many (most?) cases, that their views are irrational and fixated, and rational argument is unlikely to change it. Just ignore ’em. Pisses them off 🙂

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
4 years ago

We’ve been ignoring them for over half a century, and look at us now…

Hooligan
Hooligan
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
4 years ago

And we in the US won’t have another half century to address them. So much for waiting on some projected culture change.

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
4 years ago

“Just ignore them” has been Whitey’s solution to everything for the past 75 years. How’s that worked out?

Lineman
Lineman
Reply to  MemeWarVet
4 years ago

If you ignore someone or something trying to kill you then you will end up dead…

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
4 years ago

I don’t make arguments to change Jews’ minds about Whites. I make arguments to change Whites’ minds about Jews.

We ignored them when they bought up our banks & politicians. Then Hollywood, media & schools. How’s that worked out for us?

Tactically libertarian “just-leave-me-alone-ism” has rendered White Righties socially “plantationed,” their fences patrolled by PC Zio-cops who also control ever step up the ladder in our overly-credentialed, SJW-approved and financialized society.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
4 years ago

I believe the “just ignore them” statements have most often been used in the context of tactics by which one engages them. As stated above, trying to convince them of the error of their thinking does little but distract you in efforts that might be better spent elsewhere. I’m not sure ignoring them means “let the bastards have their way”.

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Forever Templar
4 years ago

“it’s also about time to cut off the antisemites.”

If you disagree then refute us.

To a first approximation, the jews control the media and the media shapes public opinion, therefore, they have a major influence on public opinion and incite degeneracy and anti-white hatred.

Whites who are influenced by this are partially to blame, but most people are not independent thinkers and must be protected from sick influences.

Refute me.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  G Lordon Giddy
4 years ago

So sorry, GLG, but the English Civil War was based precisely on letting the Jews get back into, and in control of, our mother country. “The wars, the revolutions, it was us, it was always us” Nonetheless, I surely appreciate the Z-effort to elevate the discussion beyond the pernicious influence. You are right, we had plenty of flaws to work on ourselves. My faith is based on the fact that we can, and did. Not one, not one, not any other race abolished torture, or slavery, or tyranny, and thus rose to the heights as we have done. We are… Read more »

MossHammer
Member
Reply to  G Lordon Giddy
4 years ago

GLG, might you have a book recommendation covering the English civil war?

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Ris_Eruwaedhiel
4 years ago

Different types of societies have different central principles. Plato discussed in The Republic his idea society and the four imperfect societies, one of which is Democracy. The central principle of democracy is equality with a mania for freedom and a tolerance borne of indifference. After all, everyone is equal and no one has the right to tell you what to do and what not to do. Affluence and modern medical treatment render living a virtuous life a lifestyle option, not a lifestyle necessity. Socialism inevitably weakens the ties that bind, replacing personal relationships to people in particular with impersonal relationships… Read more »

Lawdog
Lawdog
Member
4 years ago

You know, I got a dose of loss of dignity yesterday. My mom had an MS attack. She had been driving around for hours with no memory. She couldn’t even remember her own phone number. She was sort of ambulatory, but getting her down four flights of stairs seemed like something I should do with help. I called 911 and the ambulance came. They didn’t even help me guide her down. When I got to the emergency room to see if my mom was okay, I was immediately told to leave. I protested, but I knew what they’d do if… Read more »

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Lawdog
4 years ago

“ What the hell is being done to us.”

Conditioning—with a side dish of humiliation thrown in?

Stranger in a strange land
Stranger in a strange land
Reply to  Lawdog
4 years ago

Those are our heroes Law Dog. Get with the program

John Smith
John Smith
Member
4 years ago

This is what Christianity is all about. Isn’t it ironic that we throw it away just when we need it most? I find myself a discarded artifact of neoliberalism in the modern family: I was exiled when I refused to drink the koolaid, and bow down to the elderly hippies, the socialists and the homosexuals in our progressive families. As you say, I dared to notice things and wasn’t satisfied with the answers I got – and was eventually exiled. The experience left me hurt, angry and bitter. I began to question EVERYTHING I’d been taught in the hive and… Read more »

Drake
Drake
4 years ago

The plan is to copy the ChiComs and replace dignity with social credit scores. We’ll all get to know who the most obedient serfs are.

Whitney
Member
Reply to  Drake
4 years ago

I’m enjoying innocently pointing out to white women how obedient the population has been. Using that word. White women have a negative reaction to that word and I’m enjoying their reactions. Got to take your pleasure where you can right

BadThinker
BadThinker
Reply to  Whitney
4 years ago

The younger white women have been raised on Disney Princesses, and the big message of (most) of the modern ones is Rebellion. This gives a sense of their thinking. Ariel has a whole song about materialism. The ‘counter-song’ to try to keep her there is *also* about materialism! She takes the Witches bargain and pays for it, but of course is saved by a man (her father). Belle refuses her place. Jasmine, same thing. Mulan is the first Action Girl. The Lion princess in The Lion King is a subversion of this – reminding the Prince of his duty to… Read more »

The Last Stand
The Last Stand
Reply to  BadThinker
4 years ago

Almost all of Disney is pure poison. The only 2 movies I can think of that are not fundamentally flawed are the following.

The Lion King: Evil usurper brings in evil, greedy, stupid foreigners to steal his brother’s throne and exile his nephew all while preaching equality and tolerance for the foreigners. They ruin the kingdom. Eventually the heir returns, exiles the outsiders, kills the traitor, and reestablishes tradition.

Newsies: Working class New York boys form a union to take on a corrupt, greedy, foreign media mogul.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Whitney
4 years ago

Oddly enough, it seems the people least likely to wear coronacloth over their faces at my local grocery store are young women. Perhaps it’s their vanity. If so, vive le vanite’!

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Whitney
4 years ago

Whitney, I’m stealing that. If or when I ever get in a convo with my Leftie relatives, I am going to extravagantly compliment them on their “obedience” to the script.

BadThinker
BadThinker
Reply to  Dutch
4 years ago

Heartiste, PBUH, makes a lot out of Agree and Amplify. It’s a very useful tool.

Tell Karen that you’re very proud of her for “informing” on her neighbors to the police.

c matt
c matt
Reply to  Dutch
4 years ago

If you want real impact, might I suggest replacing “obedience” with “conformity”? Calls out both the faux rebel and faux bohemian at the same time.

Boarwild
Boarwild
Reply to  Whitney
4 years ago

Isn’t it funny how The Left was all about “standing up to The Man” until they became “The Man” then demanded unfettered obedience?

UFO
UFO
Reply to  Drake
4 years ago

I would have said in the past that whites are different than Chinese. We would never submit to things like a social credit score.

But after the China Virus lockup… well I’ve changed my tune. At least 2/3 of whites would be fully on board.

Perhaps rural USA whites are the last whites who desire true freedom… freedom to live and freedom to die, not our modern (((freedom))). And based on the drug addiction statistics i don’t know how long they will hold out.

HomerB
HomerB
4 years ago

I put the face mask on top of my wife’s head, to lead into an anecdote that went like this: When I was a kid I lived in a Jewish neighborhood for a few years. So I went to a few bar mitzvah. And when I showed up, there was the kid’s Dad or uncle, handing me a yarmulke. When I would put my hand up, “nah” was my usual phrase then, I would be told, “you haff to wear it.” To my usual second “nah”, “everyone ees!” “Nope”. And walk in I would, even as a teen, I was… Read more »

Mark Stoval
Mark Stoval
4 years ago

Z-man calls it the loss of dignity. I call it the loss of courage. No doubt it is both as they go hand in hand. As Orwell made clear in 1984, the inner party wants to humiliate and crush the spirit of the common man. The dignified man of courage must be the ultimate enemy of the ruling elite. Crush him! Those of us who believe that Satan is running the world see the same thing. It is the ruling class working through the State that has created the soy-boy culture that has no real men left. Or, so few… Read more »

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Mark Stoval
4 years ago

As Orwell made clear in 1984, the inner party wants to humiliate and crush the spirit of the common man. Yes. One of the most haunting (and least commented upon) themes, is Winston’s belief that salvation lies in the proles. He starts to ask proles about what life was like in England before the Party. One of the proles relates an incident with a toff being toffish to him, and the prole called him nasty words in return. Winston concludes that there has always been an upper class, but what he, tragically, fails to notice, is that the prole could… Read more »

HomerB
HomerB
4 years ago

Another dignity story, this one starring our heroic hospital persons. My elderly grandfather is rushed to the hospital. Near what would be the end of his life as a Dementia patient. My little, old trusting mother arrives first. I get there, and she says “they had me sign something.” So out comes Admissions Karen. I ask her to see what paperwork my mother signed. She goes back to her office and fetches them. I peruse, it includes my mother as a guarantor of any bills that go unpaid. I ask Karen, “have you made a copy of this yet?” Or… Read more »

Johnny muh Pen
Johnny muh Pen
4 years ago

For readerly types, The Eloi in The Time Machine and the Land of the Lotus Eaters in The Odyssey are extremely vivid warnings about the demoralizing (in every sense of the word) effects of plenty.

Of course real-life examples are practically endless.

Stranger in a strange land
Stranger in a strange land
4 years ago

My first thought beyond – how does Z Man daily come up with such profundity – was the statement generally attributed Voltaire: “to learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise”.

ZMan writes: “the great flourishing of liberal democracy in the 20th century gave us Brutalism and dribbles of pain on canvas”. Pehaps ‘pain’ was a typo, and was supposed to be ‘paint’, but either one is an apt description. Too pedantic?

Mathematician's Apprentice
Mathematician's Apprentice
4 years ago

Perhaps another good contrast with the West would be with the newly developed liberal Asian nations like South Korea, Japan, and Singapore. They don’t have the same amount of degeneracy, and drugs are not allowed, but there is still no great modern Asian art being produced and fertility has plummeted to the lowest rates in the world. Something like 40% of Japanese men under the age of 40 are virgins, but there’s hentai EVERYWHERE. I think that another factor in all of this is the advent of artificial communications in the forms of social media and porn. Another commenter mentioned… Read more »

Jack Boniface
Jack Boniface
Member
4 years ago

As Belloc pointed out in “Europe and the Faith,” Protestantism took root largely in the area of Europe to which the Roman Empire had not extended, the major exception being Britain. Bavaria and Northeastern France remained Catholic, while those genetically similar to the Northeast became Protestant. Sweden and Norway had been Catholic only a short time before going Protestant. Now in this faithless age, ex-Protestant and ex-Catholic alike are being replaced mainly due to low birth rates, with the invaders coming in and taking the places of the children the Europeans never had.

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  Jack Boniface
4 years ago

They too stop having kids after a while and become secularized. Turks and others in Germany are near the fertility same rate as natives only with a slightly more natal population. Ultimately though, the more citified people become the less kids they will have. Its the natural consequences of cramming millions of people into a tiny space. Humans have a social carrying capacity and anyone you’d want as a citizen is going to limit urban fertility. I’m also not certain we can affords to pay people enough to goose up fertility much simply because most labor is not of great… Read more »

Exile
Exile
Member
4 years ago

Egalitarian ethics + one-man, one-vote politics + socially-corrosive media + libertarian economics + spiteful mutant citizens = a perfect storm of forces ripping a society apart. A society can withstand one or even a few of these factors (and it’s not a complete list, OFC), but they’re fatally synergistic in this kind of multi-layered combination. You can’t whack-a-mole The One Thing that somehow ties it all together. Protestantism was inevitable because ossified, dogmatic institutions become corrupt over time. Inflexible ideology can’t respond to changing circumstances. Technology and infrastructure development drove a lot of this by improving communications and scaling up… Read more »

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
4 years ago

At root, human beings are coarse and covetous creatures. Dignity is not a part of human nature. Rather, dignity must be created and maintained by society in the duty-bound hierarchical structure Z describes. However, the natural tendency is to cast off dignity in favor of debauchery. Only a complex system of taboos and incentives prevents this demotion. Alas, postmodern liberal democracy, with its dispersion of wealth–and purchasing power–to the grubby masses, its absurdly capacious franchise (with the attendant diffusion of political power), and its cultural relativism, destroys hierarchy, duty, taste and shame. Dignity then becomes a fusty, old-fashioned notion adhered… Read more »

Rwc1963
Rwc1963
4 years ago

Excellent post.

It’s all part of post-Modernism’s war on Western society via Marxism promoted through our universities.. PoMO put simply posits a disqualified universe. IOW one with no qualitative distinctions. or value judgements. And when a Western male dares make a value judgement about say a tranny, he gets destroyed by the PoMo Marxists for deviating from the new orthodoxy.

Just consider it another part of the war on Western civilization to tear it down once and for all.

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
4 years ago

I’m speaking as a Protestant on this. As little dignity as our country has left, it still has a hell of a lot more than a lot of Catholic countries, where stray dogs roam the streets crapping everywhere, pickpockets roam the train stations and a general culture of permissiveness is the rule. Attitudes towards petty crime, personal standards, and little public morality are quite sad. If what this guy said is true, Catholic countries should at least retain some thin patina of the previous virtues. There is another ((religion)) that one could say is far more responsible for mass marketing… Read more »

Drake
Drake
Reply to  JR Wirth
4 years ago
abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  Drake
4 years ago

This seems like normal Pope behavior as outside of moral issues like abortion, obedience to authority is ingrained into Catholics.

It often doesn’t stick as the most Catholic nations are not North and Western European but its part of the teachings.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Drake
4 years ago

Yep, and he does not for a moment challenge the closing of the churches. He is the perfect Antichrist for the times.

Epaminondas
Member
4 years ago

“…the horror of unrestrained self-indulgence…”

That explains the rise of fascism right there. Right after WW1 came the economic despair. Then the “Roaring Twenties” ignited the degeneracy Zman refers to. Then came the Great Depression and the hangover effects. Is it any wonder many of us mourn the defeat of Imperial Germany in 1918? Kenneth Clark stated that a certain modicum of wealth was always positive for society, but that great wealth always tended to exert a destructive effect. He was on to something. And so is Zman.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Epaminondas
4 years ago

“great wealth always tended to exert a destructive effect.”

During the Roaring Twenties, a million American farm families were at or near starvation level. The roaring was in the cities.

Maus
Maus
4 years ago

The root of liberal democracy’s malignancy is egalitarianism. The egalitarian stance is contrary to reality and toxic to the common good. It drives pity and compassion from the public consciousness and replaces them with contempt for others and indifference to their plight. I cannot be persuaded to celebrate that which I loathe; so inevitably I must be forced to do so.

Official Bologna Tester
Official Bologna Tester
4 years ago

Z Man said: ” The great flourishing of liberal democracy in the 20th century gave us Brutalism and dribbles of pain on canvas. The new century promises us primitives exposing themselves on the internet. ” Hahaha! ” …dribbles of pain on canvas. ” 😂 Best type-o I’ve seen in a long time. But seriously. I kept wondering what would be the next “lifestyle choice” to come down the conveyor belt of social engineering, demanding full legal rights. Now I know. It’s polygamy. I’m seeing more and more tear-jerking articals moaning about the tribulations of being in a ” multi-partner relationship.… Read more »

Member
4 years ago

“What is it about liberal democracy that seems to lead to this loss of dignity?” The Tribe. I know that seems trite but the Tribe was behind the creation and promotion of modern: architecture, art and music. Through their role in the media, entertainment, law and education they have been at the forefront of all the destructive social science theories that you address in this excellent post. I live in Eastern Asia (India in Southern Asia is a different story) and daily I see the effects of not living in a society that has a media and legal system dominated… Read more »

Frip
Member
Reply to  My_Comment
4 years ago

I just learned that Stanley Kubrick wasn’t British. He was an American Jew.

Member
4 years ago

“With the collapse of Christianity as a social force in the West, the natural defense to degeneracy and vulgarity has collapsed with it. As a result, great plenty is the fuel for a small cohort of deviants to overrun the culture of liberal democracies.” You have the causation arrow backwards; we were instructed to tolerate degeneracy, to not be a Bible-thumping prude, hung up about sexuality and probably secretly desiring to be a degenerate. Those who pushed this agenda through the media and academia were the small cohort of deviants who fully intended to collapse Christianity. Moral Relativism has been… Read more »

RoBG
RoBG
4 years ago

We no longer have either a Republic or a Popular Democracy. Both “D” and “R “party structures answer solely to the donors and corporations. Which is why voting doesn’t change anything at the National (and possibly State) level.

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
4 years ago

It’s hard to talk seriously about dignity living in a society where its most famous female member began her road to fame and fortune by “leaking” a poorly made sex tape where she pretended to enjoy being sodomized by a D-league rapper.

Of course, this isn’t quite as bad as the young women of European heritage who are more than happy to spend a weekend in the Gulf Arab countries to be used as human toilets by oil shieks and their buddies for $30k or so.

Dignity, indeed.

Yves Vannes
Yves Vannes
Member
4 years ago

Plenty is a distraction and time consuming. We shatter old bonds in its pursuit.

Information overload brings with it its own form of illiteracy.

No focus no depth so planned obsolescence becomes the dominate aesthetic, the blank slate the smorgasbord of life’s choices and stages.

Maus
Maus
Reply to  T. Morris
4 years ago

T. Morris. Thank you for introducing me to this blog. It’s insider baseball for Catholic thinkers, and I look forward to grazing the collected works. Zippy does seem to have stopped posting some years ago. Do you happen to know why?

T. Morris
T. Morris
Reply to  Maus
4 years ago

Maus: He was killed in a bicycling accident, mid-September, 2018. Here is Orthospherean Kristor’s eulogy from a week after the shock of his untimely death:

https://orthosphere.wordpress.com/2018/09/25/an-eu-logion-of-zippy-catholic/

ProUSA
ProUSA
4 years ago

Funny thing is I watched Yuri Bezmenov for over 3 hours yesterday. In talking about the stages that the KGB uses to subvert democracies like ours, he said the only thing that can prevent the subversion is if the people have faith in God. I wonder if he really had a bad heart or if somebody gave him a heart attack since he defected from the Soviet Union and talked all about the evil deeds they did to this country. He was dead at age 54.

Mark Stoval
Mark Stoval
4 years ago

“American society is the only one which has passed directly from barbarism into decadence without once knowing civilisation.”

― Albert Jay Nock, Memoirs of a Superfluous Man

Chester White
Reply to  Mark Stoval
4 years ago

Nock. The most under-read and under-appreciated thinker of the last century.

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
4 years ago

Maybe western liberal democracy isn’t western. An ideological pandemic, let’s say. It’s contagious, culturally lethal, and some seem resistant to it.

Somebody (apologies don’t recall who) on here talks about living through a genetic bottleneck. The survivors will adapt and overcome. It fits!

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
4 years ago

Reverse last sentence for solution; Unless we defend ourselves we’ll have no dignity. Of course unless you defend yourself and what yours, unless you defend you and yours and I daresay offend on their behalf you have NOTHING, dignity is only the beginning. Now they can be right now beaten, they are few, they are cowards. But if we are cowards facing them we lose. The loss of dignity is only the preparation for us to become slaves, then dead. These are the wages of Civility and Law, and talking when its past talk: Degradation, Slavery, Death. I mean what… Read more »

Bill_Mullins
Member
4 years ago

I am reminded of a passage in the Old Testament book of Jeremiah, Chapter 6, verse 15 Were they ashamed because they did these disgusting things? No, they were not at all ashamed; they don’t even know how to blush. We are living in a time when people no longer know how to blush. That still leaves us with the unanswered question. What is it about liberal democracy that seems to lead to this loss of dignity? You answered your own question, ZMan. It’s all about the left’s total abandonment of any and all standards. [N]ormal is one of those… Read more »

TERRY BAKER
4 years ago

I must say, Zman’s understanding of this subject is far ahead of me, and most other people I would think. It’s almost as if I knew all this before I read the article, but seeing it spelled out so lucidly helped me to finally understand it.

Is it possible that liberal democracy’s other great achievement, political stability is also at work in this process of degeneration?