It is fair to say that this is the worst time for Christians and Christianity in the West since the Roman empire. In order to promote equality, liberal democracy has created protected classes of people who cannot be criticized. The other side of this are people who must me mocked and ridiculed. Christians were the first group placed in this category and remain the popular object of ridicule in the West. There is no prohibition against overt hatred of Christians in most Western countries.
We are not feeding Christian to lions in gladiatorial pits, but you can be sure some elements of the ruling class have thought about it. Back in the Obama years, much of the health care bill was designed to torment Christians. For example, forcing Catholic groups to pay for abortions and prophylactics. There was no public health reason for these provisions. They simply satisfied the demented and sadistic impulses of the people who put together the program.
In some Western countries, practicing your faith is close to illegal. Päivi Räsänen is a Finnish politician. She was charged with crimes against democracy for tweeting out a picture of a Bible and quoting it in public. She was eventually acquitted by the courts, but that was not the point. Persecution is about the process. This was true under communism and is even more true under liberal democracy. Hell is being in the control of ideological fanatics staffing a bureaucracy.
The fact is the managerial elites of the West are not irreligious. Ideology is just religion that replaces God with man. Our elites are fanatics for liberal democracy and they will murder anyone who questions it. Christianity has always been their primary target because the Christian’s first loyalty can never be to man or the institutions and ideologies he creates. Liberal democracy, of course, demands absolute obedience to the state and the people who run the state.
It is not just the secular elites that make war on the Christian. The big churches have been taken over by the ideologues. Anywhere you see a rainbow flag it is either a gay bathhouse, a public school or a Protestant church. The Pope cares more about climate change than the Catholic faith. Even the Baptists have seen their organizations taken over by far-left radicals. The great challenge for most Christians is in finding a church that is not run by a far-left lunatic.
Culture is to a great degree a trickle down affair. The hostility toward Christianity among the Cloud People has infected the Dirt People. Church attendance has been in decline for a few generations. Close to 30% of Americans have no religious identity. This means they have no experience with religion. About 40% of people who still identify as Christian no longer attend church. Overall, about 40% of Americans still belong to a church and attend services on a regular basis.
In Europe, Christianity is just about dead. Only 1.4 percent of the population of England attends Anglican services every Sunday. Fewer than one-in-ten Germans say they believe in God. For most Europeans, Christianity is as alien as Islam. They know nothing about it, other than what is taught in history class. Given the entrenched self-loathing that has been imposed by America, Christianity is part of the hated past where evil Europeans tried to enslave black bodies.
It is not all bad news for Christianity. The faithful are slowly realizing that for their faith to survive this age, it must live outside this age. Christians are reverting to what all persecuted minorities must do. They are learning to live in the shadows and think of themselves as the outsider. Traditional Catholics seek one another out and form up shadow communities. Bible study in America is becoming a private affair organized by small local communities of believers.
These defensive measures are what will form the basis of a revival. Anything that is open to everyone is valuable to no one. Christianity was at its most powerful when it was exclusive and required sacrifice from the believers. One of the main reasons for the decline of the Western churches is their success. Once it was easy to be a Christian, it stopped being a powerful force in society. Its return to a persecuted, underground movement is the only path to renewal.
This presents a challenge and an opportunity in dissident politics. Many people waving the dissident banner have yet to shed their liberal disdain for Christianity. Some have manufactured bizarre conspiracy theories about the Church. On the other hand, many sober minded dissidents have soured on their faith, due to the take over of the churches by liberal democratic fanatics. One reason many dissidents have soured on the world is they have seen what happened to their churches.
In America, this is compounded by the problem of evangelical politics. In the 1970’s, in reaction to the cultural revolution, evangelicals decided to engage directly with politics in order to get their guys in office. This was a disaster. Many of the evangelical activist groups became profitable grifts for the leaders. The pols who took advantage of the evangelical vote sold out those voters. They convinced believers that their faith required them to accept liberal degeneracy.
The debacle of Christian political activism cannot be overstated. The neocons were able to take over largely with the support of evangelicals. Even now, after the disaster of the Bush years, many of these groups still care more about Israel than the condition of their own people. When the typical dissident sees stuff like this, he wants to hoist the back flag and start slitting throats. It is a reminder of just how easily these people were turned into weapons against the West.
That said, there is a slow rapprochement between the secular dissidents and the growing number of dissident Christians. The former is coming to understand the defining role not just of belief but of structured rational belief. The latter is coming to terms with the reality of their situation. For the West to survive and resurrect itself after the horrors of liberal democracy, it will need a new set of core beliefs, based in the old ways shaped by the experience of the crisis.
This is where dissident Christians can contribute the most to the cause. The sin of despair is one of the worst, because it is deliberate. One deliberately decides that salvation is impossible. It is the state immediately before suicide. The only reason to be a dissident it to maintain hope that through the struggle, reason and decency can be restored in the West. Without hope, the dissident has no reason to exist, which is why despair must become a mortal sin for dissidents.
You see more and more dissidents and dissident Christians willing to circulate in the same platforms. Gab has become the social media exchange for both dissidents and dissident Christians. Nick Fuentes and his groypers blend dissident political critiques with overt Christian beliefs. For the first time in a long time church attendance has ticked up in America. These are grim times for the defenders of civilization, but we still have hope because that is what must carry us through.
Happy Easter.
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[…] It is not just the secular elites that make war on the Christian. The big churches have been taken o… Anywhere you see a rainbow flag it is either a gay bathhouse, a public school or a Protestant church. The Pope cares more about climate change than the Catholic faith. Even the Baptists have seen their organizations taken over by far-left radicals. The great challenge for most Christians is in finding a church that is not run by a far-left lunatic. […]
Powerful article.
Though many religious people try to make light of the differences between a scientific approach to life and a religious one— imagining that they can be a “person of faith”, while also affirming the findings of science— I don’t believe that’s the case. Looked at closely, the two perspectives are diametrically opposed: theology is antithetical to science: The scientist reaches his conclusions by a process of logical deduction, based on known facts and the most reasonable interpretation of them. For any given belief, he can show you the evidence for why he believes it to be true; why he believes… Read more »
The literal minded will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven, which consists of metaphor and parables.
Are you suggesting then that Biblical accounts are nothing more than metaphor and parable? That is, that while they convey truths about reality, they shouldn’t be taken literally: as recounting events that actually happened and people who actually existed? Virtually all the Christians I’ve known have understood the Bible literally: as recording actual history and real people. And would tell you that their faith depends on those things actually having happened. Taking the resurrection accounts as myths symbolizing the eternal recurrence of life is NOT what their faith is about. They would say, along with Paul, that it makes all… Read more »
The last three paras in the piece try to paper over the chasm between religious belief and objective truth, seeing as the latter is supposed to be non-negotiable around here. The conclusion that religion at least offers hope to the cause seems forlorn.
I’m not an atheist proselytiser. I advocate religion for everyone in the world, except me. I can suggest another way though for the dissident to square the intellectual inconsistency: by acknowledging, engaging with, and appreciating the *cultural value* of religion without actually believing in all the twaddle. Try it.
“I advocate religion for everyone in the world, except me.”
Dude, I get it. Religion is ridiculous but the alternative is so much worse. It’s hard to imagine something more ridiuclous than the historic Jesus but that is what we must hope for.
I admire a number of Christians yet I can’t ignore the vapidity of Jesus. Seriously, can you name one saying from Jesus that demonstrates wisdom?
The only aphorisms that I can can think of from Him are bone-headed stupid, like “turn the other cheek” or “love your enemies.” The Semon on the Mount is silly.
I admire His followers but I don’t admire Him. Uncomfortable for me.
Freud agrees with you and “love your enemies,” absolutely bewilders him. He simply cannot understand it. He asks: “Why should we do it? What good will it do us? But, above all, how shall we achieve it? How can it be possible? My love is something valuable to me which I ought not to throw away without reflection . . . If I love someone, he must deserve it in some way . . . He deserves it if he is so like me in important ways that I can love myself in him; and he deserves it if he… Read more »
Mr. Fake, if you’re telling me that I am wrong can you please correct me down a bit more explicity?
I get the sense that you feel that you are really putting me down by identifying me with Freud, but all your words are amorphous.
I suspect that the weakness of your response supports the strength of my criticism.
“get the sense that you feel that you are really putting me down by identifying me with Freud.”
Yes and no.
My subtle point was that Freud WAS a genius and he agrees with you. But whether Freud was good for the human race or right about all or most things. . .well, that’s another story.
What’s true, what’s beneficial, whats propogates power. . .all messy, confusing, issues to put it mildly
“Turn the other cheek” was meant to apply to a situation where “your brother strikes you.” Looking at the difference between violent neighborhoods and safe ones, we can see the value of giving our brothers a second chance.
“Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you” to me implies that being hated and persecuted is a blessing, a sign that youre doing the right thing, and that they “know not what they do” because they are instruments of satan.
Sounds pretty stupid to me buddy. Seriously, Jesus never uttered a phrase that can withstand scrutiny.
He’s pretty lame. I’m sorry.
Maybe so but his followers won.
Which is the ultimate wisdom.
Perhaps you should ponder why that happened and what lessons can be learned and applied from it.
Dino, excellent response!
I won’t kid you, I think that I demolished all the Christian arguments, but I appreciate your follow-up. I could be wrong. Thanks brother!
The literal minded will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven, which consists of metaphor and parables.
Jesus is a dry well when it comes to wisdom. That’s not my fault.
Not that anybody is reading these comments anymore, but some final thoughts on whatever: -God’s existence cannot be proven or disproven in any sort of objective way -The nature of God cannot be proven or disproven in any sort of objective way -Christianity can “work” if it’s amongst a homogenous population of generally high quality, intelligence, and moral fiber. . .ie: what they used to call White people. A people must have a religion. -The strength and sexual energy of the young must be channeled EARLY into productive work and family. The longer the libidious energies are thwarted in holding… Read more »
Mr. Fake, I can’t tell you of the depth of my desire to live in the Shire. Maybe I’m oversensitive to crowds but I don’t think I’m all that unusual.
We evolved to live in villages. Mass society overwhelms us, generally speaking. I guess is that the extent to which one is comfortable in a city is the extent to which one is a sociopath.
Very good post Z Man.
Have a Happy Easter.
Leftists, to use a general term, have a strange perception of what love is, that they then monopolize. When Leftists see on our side Tough love, ballbusting teasing/rough housing, a strong protective/disgust stance against a maladaptive Other, they really do fail to comprehend and believe it is contrary and evil It goes beyond to their comprehension of stuff like kindness, or standing your own ground with a gun vs hiding/whimpering/appeasing, the role of judgment and punishment vs absolute peacenik inclusivity. An inability to comprehend that God has overabundant mercy but He really doesn’t suffer fools. And Leftists may or may… Read more »
One thing that’s clear about us human beings: how prone we are to self-deception, to fooling ourselves. It’s very easy for us— you might even say it comes naturally— to talk ourselves into believing things that simply aren’t true. You can see examples of this everywhere you look. For example: progressives hold to an egalitarian view of humanity— the belief that all people-groups are equally endowed, that group racial differences are an artifact of environmental inequities, and will disappear under conditions of equal opportunity— despite the fact that science has shown this not to be the case. Despite the fact… Read more »
Heres my testimony:
If it werent for christianity, we’d all be speaking turkish, living in some inbred muslim society, castrated, working as slaves with 12th century technology.
Agreed.
And from that we can conclude that it was a good thing that Christian armies resisted the encroachmemt of Muslim armies centuries ago.
But it would not seem to have any bearing on the question of:
Is Christianity true?
I.e., is the Christian narrative an accurate account of reality?
I’m sort of mixed on what to think about the christian issue. On one hand, I’ve gone through my own phase of DR3 where I’ve become disaffected with the left and felt that “christians are the real tolerant ones”. But every now and then, I run into people like richard greenhorn on theamericansun who reminds me why I was attracted to the left in the first place.
It’s a tough needle to thread. Jesus broke bread with tax collectors and sinners because healthy people don’t need a doctor, but then he said if you love your children more than Him you aren’t worthy of Him. Doesn’t get less tolerant than that if you ask me.
OTOH it’s fair to say we see today what tolerance gets you.
It’s a difficult situation. The secular and Christians dissidents have no hope of winning without each other.
There are many Christians whom I respect and admire yet I fear they will fall sway to the racial universalism inherent in their faith. They are obligated to believe that Jesus can transform a black thug into a middle class Republican. Sorry, but that is a miracle on par with walking on water.
Understandably, they distrust me because I haven’t accepted Christ as my savior.
Again, a difficult situation.
I disagree that racial universalism is inherent in Christianity. This is a very recent addition as post-Marx culturalism took hold among Western elites. Christian anti-racism was an attempt by mainstream Protestants then Catholics to strike a bargain with the the new religion of the ruling class.
I want to believe you but if that black thug is going to the same Heaven as your daughter it is a difficult argument to make that he should not be in your community and marry her.
I know that Christians site the Babel story as a sigh that God wants separate peoples but I have yet to see that argument persuade any anti-racist Christian. I am not as optimistic on this point as the Z man.
I think it’s telling that the Christian congregations that are most passionately “anti-racist” are those who have also rejected much of what the Bible clearly teaches: You can’t embrace feminism without ignoring the passages mandating male headship. You can’t embrace homosexuality without ignoring the passages which condemn it. You can’t lobby for “abortion rights” without ignoring the commandment not to murder, as well as the commandments to come to the aid of the weak and helpless. Anybody who says they believe the Bible is “God’s word”— yet feels free to decide which of God’s words they’ll heed and which they’ll… Read more »
I don’t think any Christians believe any this of any color is going to heaven on the merits of his thugness, which is quite a straw man you’ve made there. However, most Christians I know at least believe that all people, even black thugs, need to submit to Christ, and that all people should be treated charitably and respectfully. The main question I have for race realists is: what exact policy are you angling for, regarding blacks/POC? Do you want a government law commanding all white people to refer to non-whites to by the most denigrating slur associated with their… Read more »
Drew,
Good questions!
Policies I would like to see enacted:
• end “anti-discrimination” laws and restore freedom of association.
• end “affirmative action” and restore meritocratic standards.
• end the war on free speech and remove “hate speech” laws.
• end the de facto ban on research regarding group racial differences.
• even-handed standards on social media platforms regarding who’s allowed to say what.
FWIW, some of the finest people I know have been African and African-American.
But that has nothing to do with my acceptance of the reality of group racial differences.
There are “many mansions” in heaven. You will be in the Wipipo house.
JR,
Haven’t you heard?
The Wipipo House has been converted to Celestial Section 8 Housing.
Much of the Old Testament tells the story of God taking great effort to mold a separate people: giving the Hebrews a separate set of rules and customs, urging them to see themselves as distinct, and to hold themselves apart from the peoples around them. Inplicit in this vision of “a chosen people” is the assumption of vast differences between groups, which would be lost through miscegination. The New Testament is more complex: while the faith is indeed universalized to include all peoples and not just the Jews— “Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian,… Read more »
There also great differences between healthy and handicapped people. Should it therefore be socially morally acceptable for those who are healthy to mistreat those who are disabled? That there are immutable racial differences should only imply, at most, that different accomodations and expectations are needed for different races. It shouldn’t be justification for mistreatment.
Is exclusion mistreatment?
If a smart and law-abiding black is forbidden to live somewhere, due to his race, is he being mistreated?
Drew, While I don’t disagree with anything you say, I think you may be missing the point. No one is advocating for the mistreatment of Blacks. What we SHOULDN’T be doing, (IMO): • denying the existence of inherent group racial differences, and the part they play in determining outcomes. • assuming that all inequalities in performance— e.g., the Black-White performance gap in schools, or the disproportionate representation of Whites in high-IQ fields— are due to racism and discrimination. • removing or lowering standards under the guise of affirmative action. • enacting racial quotas. • pretending that group racial differences don’t… Read more »
Had Paul strolled through Nigeria there would have been a very long letter to the Corinthians on this topic.
It’s an inherent vulnerability in any universalist ideology or religion. As soon as the Christian agrees that the outgroup have souls then the left can grind him down by appealing to his own morality. Same problem with secular liberals, if other ethnic groups are sapient then your own ideology compels you to accept them as fellow humans.
Obviously regarding other races as zombies or automatons isn’t going to win the optics game, so you’re really just left with the same moral particularism that works so well for our triple parenthetical friends.
Nothing funnier than watching people argue about their respective Middle-Eastern fairy tales, the mutual demonisation and one-upmanship. What is needed is an overarching metaphysical view of the so-called Abrahamic religions. A Hindu has a firmer grasp of Jesus as avatara than any Christian apologist could ever have – and a Buddhist would tell you to stop trying to arrive at truth through dialectics/argument.
And both of them built civilizations where the average man shits in the street due to an IQ of 87
The one and only parallel I have found between Christianity and Buddhism is that the Resurrection may have more in common with the “rainbow light body” than anyone previously imagined…
(Conversations with grandchildren, part one) You can’t have a talk with children because there’s the mother, and nowadays the main role of the mother is not to raise children but to confront the father. (Who’s to blame? We, men, not only allowed but have encouraged women to stray that way. We decay; that’s the Law. So, don’t blame Putin, don’t blame Biden: blame yourself, blame your father. And after coming to grips with it, make peace with yourself – make peace with your Maker.) (Conversations with grandchildren, part two) Hard times make you strong; gentle things make you glad. Be… Read more »
Just as the apostles thought jesus was dead, we simply must be in a situation like that. There has not been a pope since 1958, and it seems like there are no bishops or priests either, since no new ones can be made if there is no pope. It seems like His mystical body is gone too, as would be the promise that the Roman Catholic Church would last until the end of time. But there are still a few Catholics left. Remember, when Adam fell, 100% of the human race apostatized. Noah, only two led out of Egypt made… Read more »
Z, I rarely criticize you bluntly, but you really told a whopper out the gate with today’s essay: “It is fair to say that this is the worst time for Christians and Christianity in the West since the Roman empire.” This is just about the worst hyperbole I recall in the two years or so I’ve been reading you. Perhaps you meant it for emphasis, as an introduction to the rest of the article? In any event, please allow me to enlighten you on just a few of the abuses Christians have suffered in later times. I won’t even go… Read more »
If you believe that you are welcome to carry out an experiment to test it: try standing in the public square and forcefully advocating for standard Christian doctrine on judaism, sodomy, and baby killing. Even the thought experiment falsifies your argument.
Ben watches too much MSNBC and believes it all
Excellent post and observations, Zman.
What is most noteworthy about liberals who hate Christianity is that they hate democracy too, when it might put a Christian into office. It’s very hard to figure out exactly what they believe, actually. They tend to get elected because their flat affects and memorized technocratic jargon come off as mature and intellectual, rather than being the consequence of being a burned out hedonist who can no longer think creatively and spontaneously. They hope their voters won’t notice when they become senile in old age, when Christians become sages. The middle aged liberal is what Trump famously called “low energy”… Read more »
the Protestant Revolution was the starting point for the West’s descent to the hellhole we call the West today.
Well, the trad-Cathy’s have come out in force. I hate this intra-tribal bickering. I’ve noticed that the dissident movement has started to attract libertarian’s, pagans, gays, Protestants, Catholics and even some elites. We are all in the same boat and it’s taking on water fast. We can fight about all this after we win. Because our enemies hate all of us. And the enemy does have a say. South Africa is a good example. The boers hate the English (for good reason). Yet their situation is so dire they now increasingly make common cause with them. We must strenuously strive… Read more »
Just some branches of it. Look at Baptists or the Dutch Reformed and say they didn’t produce a great ethos.
Catholicism and Paganism both sprouted some destructive offshoots in their heydays.
Sounds like a secular dissident looking to form an intersectional alliance with… what’s a “dissident” Christian? A Christian who’s forsaken their faith. For many Christians, Christianity is merely the hope that Jesus might validate their politics. A Christian has no more investment in a liberal democracy than in totalitarian dictatorship. Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world. Most American and posibly European Christians want to make the Kingdom very much of this world. Rod Dreher’s Ben Op is wise advice to today’s Christians but Rod lacks the courage of his convictions. He, too, is a politico who wants… Read more »
Whatever. There are plenty of Saints that fought for their people and there’s nothing wrong with recognizing that the Church is necessary for a functioning society. Your post is a piety spiral and I see it everywhere. Go be a monk somewhere.
“Go be a monk somewhere.”
Preferably one that takes a vow of silence.
Yeah but did they? They fought for the Catholics. As likely as not against other whites. Maybe that is the good that will come out of this current crisis. Fewer brother wars. On a more practical note. I wouldn’t care to have Catholic neighbors, or Amish or even Mormon. I don’t want Congolese neighbors.
A quick review of those “conspiracy theories” give me the greatest of joy. They confirm my bias, that what I’d intuited was correct–
That the Christ is Ours, is Ours, is Ours.
Contra dancing, English country dancing, various traditional folk dancing feature music dancing dress cultural customs reaching far back into the history of our people, Europeans. Men and women of a variety of ages gather together keeping our culture alive. Men and women meet in traditional ways, reminiscent of traditional culture, as gathering in the square of ancient villages. People study and learn to play live music. People learn traditional dance; keeping themselves physically fit, developing important skills such as balance, and preserving and developing mental alertness. People learn that which is congruent to who we are and vivify our culture… Read more »
Never thought to encounter a fellow contra/English/Scottish Country dancer here. New England, yes?
Calif. (gaze at floor in shame)
Check out the RSCDS website. You’ll find Scottish Country Dancing near you in California.
I hope that I have bumped into you at the Jane Austen ball in Pasadena at some point Good Sir. Carry on!
I’ll be damned, we’ve found some true Scotsman.
RSCDS member since 1993 here. Greetings! This is a pleasant surprise!
The RSCDS is obviously a radicalizing influence.
I grew up contra dancing. Well, my parents did it and I just ran around with the other kids. It’s ironic that those NPR tote toting libtards do more to preserve European tradition than about anyone else.
Wherever you are in the world, there is probably a branch of the Royal Scottish Country Dance Society. Not for the out-of-shape.
Who can sing like the Russians?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjcN7Mw8-zg&list=PLMOgArQx8GfpUSusL3kthG0M2k-_BQnIl&index=12
The only church I sympathise with is the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, the branch that left shortly after the Revolution, and it’s sister churches in Eastern Europe. There have always been vicious internal politics, but the core is as hard-core as it has always been, except perhaps for the pre-Nikon Old Believers. It’s worth learning some Russian and Church Slavonic, just to be able to enjoy the stunning liturgical music of the Slavs. I recommend reading anything from St. Theophan The Recluse, much beloved saint of Russia.
Jesus founded the, ahem, Russian church outside Russia? And when was that?
I’ve always understood a “lapsed” believer (Catholic, Presbyterian, whatever) to refer to someone who still believes that particular doctrine to be true, but who has stopped “practicing” the faith (going to church, going to mass, receiving the sacraments, etc.).
By that usage, if you’ve stopped believing altogether, you’re not lapsed, you’re something else.
So whether it’s accurate to describe Z-man as a lapsed Catholic depends on what his beliefs are regarding the truth of Catholic doctrine.
I identify as a lapsed catholic for my general religious beliefs as well. It’s a much nicer label than cultural catholic, which implies I’m some liberal dissenter, though it may be technically more accurate in my case.
I don’t identify as a ‘lapsed’ Catholic. I always say that I’m as Catholic as a Borgia. And I mean that sincerely, including the desire to Deus Vult my enemies and let God sort them out.
I didn’t leave the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church left me. Pax Vobiscum.
For lapsed/ indifferent Catholics, find a church that celebrates the traditional Latin mass and offers communion on the tongue. By definition, it is not POZ’ed. For those of us 55 and younger, it is like nothing you have ever seen. The Latin is weird (at first) and the communion on the tongue…challenging (I always sit in the front pew). More importantly, you will find the parishioners are, to a man, rejects from the modern…everything. I am not optimistic about my chances for salvation, but when I go to the great beyond, I can’t say I was never given the chance… Read more »
“I am not optimistic about my chances for salvation, … .”
If you were not baptized, you would not be receiving the Blessed Sacrament. Ditto Holy Absolution.
Therefore, your sins are forgiven, and where there is forgiveness of sins, there is eternal life. This is not in question.
Stop worrying. Use the Sacraments. That’s what they are for.
kinda true. a mortal sin will send you straight to hell, so must go to confession regularly.
Well, yes, except that a mortal sin–by definition–is one that you refuse to confess and repent yourself of.
So…. let me try and get this straight: As mortal humans, born into a fallen world, in which everyone around us is a sinner, we have zero chance of not sinning ourselves; being born into this world guarantees that we’ll be sinners, and there’s nothing we can possibly do to avoid it; Yet God— who is perfectly loving, perfectly just, and perfectly merciful— is going to condemn us to eternal suffering for the sins which we couldn’t possibly avoid committing? Really? Is that what Perfect Love and Perfect Mercy and Perfect Justice would do? And since sin has occurred, someone… Read more »
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Couldn’t agree more, the TLM renued my faith that was destroyed by modern Protestantism. They are “our” people and I find it a refuge from an insane world.
God knows English too. It’s the default language of the world and has more words than any other language, Russian being a close second (once again the Russians are a sleeper civilization that has more depth to it than we give them credit for). I don’t even let my housekeeper speak Spanish in my house, and I’m not going down the street to be given The Word in a foreign tongue. Or, some clown who thinks he knows spiritual tongues.
Latin was good for Italians circa 300AD. We’ve moved on Thank You.
I appreciate that it is unchanging and used only on special occasions, it makes for less confusion and interpretation. For example who ever says ” my that’s a rather gay new hat you have my dear”. Latins difficult and takes work and preparation for mass, I don’t see that as a bad thing. Its also comforting that I can go into any tlm church on the planet and feel at home.
Mr. Wirth,
That is a fair critique, but the Latin mass isn’t so much in a foreign language (which I despise hearing in my own country) than it is a universal language from our European patrimony.
…and for your school age kids, the Latin will help with their vocabulary…
Mow Noname: Well said. I agree.
The study of Latin (or any highly inflected language) disciplines the mind. A MAJOR benefit at any time or in any place. Today’s world could use some disciplined thinking.
both my a=sons took Latin in high school , and it helped discipline their thinking ans to understand written concepts.
find an ordinariate parish near you. beautiful ad orientem Mass in English and our kind of Christian dissendents abound
If you can’t find a Latin Mass or an Ordinarate, its a good rule of thumb that regular Novus Ordo parishes that have perpetual adoration also conduct the liturgy in a very reverent manner..
Your housekeeper? Clean up your own shit, lazy fatass.
One of the things that impresses me with respect to Christianity, at least in the here and now, are massive, intricate and beautiful cathedrals erected throughout Europe in the name of God and faith. Most of those I’ve walked through are in Spain, but I have visit at least one anytime we’re there. Even the Alhambra doesn’t hold a candle to the cathedral in Granada, IMO. They are a true testament to western man’s faith, ingenuity and industriousness.
usNthem: The churches and minsters in England are magnificent.. So is St. Stephen’s Cathedral in Budapest. I’ve visited lovely churches in Austria. And, of course, the Hagia Sophia in Istambul. How anyone can look at the beauty and technical ingenuity employed to the glory of God – or for that matter listen to brilliant classical music written to celebrate God’s glory (Handel, Bach, etc.) – and claim it is all delusional rubbish is now beyond my understanding. But . . . there but for the grace of God.
This is where the biblical christianity/divine divergence sits for many I would think. It does for me. On the one hand the biblical stories in and of themselves appear to me to be tied into mechanisms intentionally used to inject certain groups into authority structures in early Europe (in the same way modern media is used), to ensure Europeans were used to keep alive a foreign set of foundation myths to replace their own and to exploit the native tribes solely for their own benefit as they spread up through Europe and not much more. On the other the influence… Read more »
Right on target. I will never be a ‘true believer’ because I see some of the underpinnings you described and how hard it is to reconcile. But I also agree that Christianity in spite of some of the traps embedded in its doctrine ‘outgrew’ those and flourished on its own. It is so intertwined with the history of Europe and being the forefront of the world as we know it they simply cannot be unraveled from one another. I would have zero problem with a return to the muscular Christianity of the crusades or even better, the Inquisition. 😎 We… Read more »
Unfortunately the muscular Christianity was almost entirely driven by the muscular approach of the knight elite feudal system in Europe.
Given the globohomo erosion of any male elite mind set and the effeminate state/managerial only outlook of the current candidates I doubt any of this can be manifested even if Christianity could be resurrected.
“Right on target. I will never be a ‘true believer’ because I see some of the underpinnings you described and how hard it is to reconcile.”
[…]
“I would have zero problem with a return to the muscular Christianity of the crusades or even better, the Inquisition. 😎”
Okay, both of those things cannot be true.
If muscular Christianity is good in the final paragraph, why is it not good in the first paragraph?
If patriarchal authority is good in the final paragraph, why is it no good in the first?
I can understand that something is good for society as a whole even if it is not the best fit for me personally. In every permutation of every situation I’d prefer a strong Christian doctrine to what we have now. All aspects of Christianity I cannot reconcile personally, but these are minor quibbles I have with something that on the whole is valuable as a societal compass.
Amen on cathedrals. I tend to agree with the argument that the architectural, artistic, sculptural, and musical elements were deliberately developed and refined over centuries to create an incredibly sophisticated, cinematic worship experience. Two lesser known cathedrals I’ve been lucky enough to visit are Nidaros in Trondheim and the Cathedral of Santa Maria of Palma de Mallorca. Both are equally impressive, quite different, and distinctively tied to their people and place. Antoni Gaudi’s Sagrada Família is impressive in terms of its sheer scale and complexity, yet when I examine its details I feel as though I am witnessing the very… Read more »
I attended a mass in Maui, and the crucifix over the alter had a Jesus that looked like Don Ho. Got a good chuckle out of that.
If white Christians could see what the historic Jesus really looked like, I guess that many would find their enthusiasm for the faith waning.
It’s hard to identify emotionally with the Divine when it has the face of a racial other.
The Alhambra is a Moorish palace, not a place of worship, so the comparison is not faithful to the purposes for which it was built.
While we are comparing, what Western religious architecture would you compare to the mouth-dropping mosques of Isfahan, Iran?
I suppose my point is that while the Alhambra is the big tourist attraction in Granada, the Cathedral is much more impressive in my opinion, not only as a monument to the Christian faith, but also sheer impressive architecture.
There are too many to name.
A lot fewer now, with some 1400 burned in Europe and Canada.
Berkan: While I have not been to Iran, I’ve visited Turkey a number of times and seen some beautiful mosques, particularly the Selimiye in Edirne built by Suleiman’s architect Sinan. It was lovely, but I would readily hold up half a dozen Christian Cathedrals as its superior.
Yes. And I’m afraid the cathedrals are imperiled. The anti-whites, if they obtain enough power, will convert them into multiculti shrines. The Muzz, if they gain enough power, will turn them into mosques. And the Hutus, if given enough power, will house rappers there.
The French are desecrating their own cathedrals. Check iut the woke display planned for renovated Notre Dame.
I don’t even want to know.
The Church owns no property in France, It all belongs to the French Republic.
Thus far has fallen the Eldest Daughter of the Church.
I have never been one for organized religion but I do consider myself to be a “spiritual” person but even a heathen such as myself was struck dumb in awe at the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagrada_Fam%C3%ADlia
If I ever convert to Catholicism it will be in no small part due to Gaudi’s cathedral.
do it. ever since I started taking the Catholic Faith seriously, I have found much joy and happiness.
do it. ever since I started taking the Catholic Faith seriously, I have found much joy and happiness.
I’m glad. But the litmus test will be when you are persecuted and have to take big risks.
If the world does not hate you, you ain’t doin’ it right.
[…] ZMan discusses what’s going on. […]
Here’s a talk by Richard Carrier, professor of ancient literature at Columbia University, presenting evidence for the possibility that Jesus may not have existed at all:
https://youtu.be/WUYRoYl7i6U
He also wrote a lengthy book on the subject:
https://www.amazon.com/Historicity-Jesus-Might-Reason-Doubt/dp/1909697494/ref=nodl_
And then there’s the inimitable Christopher Hitchens:
https://youtu.be/9V85OykSDT8
Richard Carrier…. wasn’t he the guy that Roissy et al mocked so mercilessly, for asking his blog readers for a date? And not just any date, a date who would be into polyamory?
Something tells me homeboy as what you might call a vested interest in undermining the foundations of Western morality.
Carrier can be a total flake, but what he says about the Bible can still be true; one has no necessary connection with the other.
I listen to the evidence he presents, and weigh that, and judge his arguments accordingly.
I could care less about internet rumors about his social life.
“I listen to the evidence he presents, and weigh that, and judge his arguments accordingly.”
It must be truly wonderful to be smarter than the greatest minds the Western tradition like Thomas Aquinas and Isaac Newton and many others.
Saying you could care less means that you do care. Just an FYI, Mr. Copernicus.
“Mr. Copernicus.”
Oh, yeah, and him, too. He was include in “many others.” So, oddly enough, were many others.
I seem to recall Joe Smith was also interested in polyamory. According to Fawn Brodie’s well researched bio “No Man Knows My History” he was jailed for destroying a newspaper office whose owner accused him of infidelity with his wife and was publishing critical articles.
“Here’s a talk by Richard Carrier, professor of ancient literature at Columbia University, … .” Columbia University, is it? Drive on. The readers of this blog are singularly unimpressed. Anyway, Christ dealt with such foolish and self-absorbed people quite directly in Luke 16: 29 – 31: “Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise… Read more »
“There is no human answer to this question.”
Zowee, do I EVER disagree with that one.
We are meant to know, to discover all these things. Made for it, in fact.
“Zowee, do I EVER disagree with that one.”
Duly noted.
Carrier is a joke in academic circles. Mythicists, the people that think Jesus never existed, are a very fringe movement. But they have a lot of followers on Internet
The historicity of Jesus is very well established
The historical sources about the existence of Jesus are numerous and varied. Jesus is one of the most attested characters in ancient history. Graeco-roman references to Jesus: pagan historian Thallos (around AD 55, twenty years after Jesus death), stoic writer Mara bar Serapion (sometime after AD 70), Roman historian Tacitus (AD 56-120), Roman administrator Pliny the Younger (AS 61-113), Roman historian Suetonius (around AD 120). (Compare this to references to Alexander the Great, who died in 323 BC. “We have ancient narratives of Alexander’s life, written between 30 BCE and the third century CE—hundreds of years after his death. The… Read more »
“… the earliest account is the ancient creed included in 1 Corinthians 15, 3-5 … .”
There are 22 (or 23?) hymns and creedal statements in Revelation/Apocalypse. Possibly as early as A.D. 70.
Also the Didache (“The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles”). Possibly as early as some of the NT books.
imnobody00, “Graeco-roman references to Jesus: pagan historian Thallos (around AD 55, twenty years after Jesus death), stoic writer Mara bar Serapion (sometime after AD 70), Roman historian Tacitus (AD 56-120), Roman administrator Pliny the Younger (AS 61-113)” Do you have links to those? I’m not doubting you, I’m just not familiar with them. As far as the Josephus quote: except for extreme fundamentalists, I’m not aware of any Biblical scholar who sees that as genuine. Examining the language of that quote, and comparing it to the language in the rest of Josephus, unbiased scholars have pretty much all come to… Read more »
Bless your heart.
Msgr. Ronald Knox wrote a satirical article where he applies the “critical history method” to Boswell’s Life of Johnson, and concludes that the the book had several separate sources, Johnson didn’t actually exist, and the book was written decades later than traditionally claimed.
IMO there’s no good reason not to believe the entire NT was composed before 70 AD.
KL,
You say “there’s no good reason not to believe the entire NT was composed before 70 AD.”
What are your reasons for believing they were written before then?
Top comment! As we’ve seen during the last 2 years, most Christians are no different from agnostics and atheists in their hankering for the material things of life.
It still chokes me up. I was raised in a shitlib family. When I was just a little guy, I went with a bunch of the local brats to an informal summer kids’ club that the catholic ladies put on in their back yards. It was tame stuff, they told us kids bible stories, played memorization games and even regular games. It was a great place for little kids to go and it was free. When my mom found out about it, she gave me a spanking and told me never to go there again. When I tried to tell… Read more »
“Jews and the blacks … need to be kept on a short leash…”
We have no moral obligation before judgement by God to expend such effort. The solution is deportation and separation. Let them predate upon their own in their own lands. It’s time for White hands to again reach for the stars, but this time without the rootless and the savage dragging us back down.
We will have to do that to protect ourselves, Horace. If you give jews and blacks places of authority in your govt and your communities… this is what they will look like. They have to be on our leash, or they will have us on theirs and that won’t be good for anyone.
“The church didn’t fall to liberal democracy. It fell to sin. Greed, lust, perversion, corruption… it’s all there.”
Same things. Democracy is based on the unthinking rejection of authority. You recognize that when you write this:
“Greed, lust, perversion, corruption… it’s all there.”
So you are in complete agreement with Z’s essay of today.
Essentially. We come to the same conclusions but arrive there by different means. He certainly isn’t wrong; he just views the world through a secular lens, whereas I view it through a spiritual one.
Essentially. We come to the same conclusions but arrive there by different means. He certainly isn’t wrong; he just views the world through a secular lens, whereas I view it through a spiritual one.
Duly noted.
Thanks for that interesting share.
Ahhh the CQ! It’s been a little quiet around here lately. This should be a fun thread!
I’d argue that the CQ is more important than the JQ. And I say that as a secular dissident.
Semi-OT:
Here are some Good Friday afternoon whitepills courtesy of the lovely young Russian women that make up the folk-signing group, “Beloe Zlato,” which translates to, “White Gold.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoE6KinOLCU
https://www.youtube.com/c/BeloeZlato
These look like my people.
Wonderful diversion, doubly emphasized by the first thing to appear on my YouTube screen—a “commercial” with all Blacks using their new bank card! Sigh….
Wild Geese: Thank you for that. Brought back many memories and much nostalgia. The architecture of the store they’re in front of, the chai metal glass holders on the train where they sing California Dreamin’, and two of the women are wearing the exact soft knit-cream colored traditional headscarf I bought while living there, which I still use.
Been enjoying Beloe Zlato for a couple of years now; really talented gals.
Thanks much- I watch Russian and Turkish TV to get my fill of “normal people” vitamins. Haven’t seen ONE dindu on Haber Türk for weeks and weeks, no femtards, no fagtards, no anti-religion bagelytes or leftist Kurds either. Music shows from the Caucaus Republics are a special treat—good-looking, conservative Whyte People, mostly Muslim. Zero Divershitty.
Ha! Try looking up Aryan anything on youtube- they’ve gone full BJP Hinduvata “history”.
It’s so strange to watch Eastern European women on the internet with their clothes on.
Reading this post I had to wonder whether Z has listened to the most recent Tom Woods episode with Paul Gottfried. (Ep. 2102 Is This the Government We Deserve? with Paul Gottfried) It’s on Youtube and it’s quite interesting.
That bit about raising the black flag and slitting throats is, of course, from Mencken. So why not quote some more of his wisdom? “Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration – courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth.” “Evangelical Christianity, as everyone knows, is founded upon hate, as the Christianity of Christ was founded upon love.” “Puritanism. The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy. (A Mencken Chrestomathy ch. 30 (1949) “We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect… Read more »
Dissidents these days also quote a lot of Fred Nietzsche’s witticisms, consciously or not, despite the latter’s proud lack of hope, faith, charity, etc. my issue with the religious Rod Dreher type of folks is they think they deserve applause for still being devout after all this dreck that happens daily. Sorry, the world doesn’t care… Christians as well as Muslims, Wiccans, etc. might improve by not expecting brownie points and to be let off the hook for being “people of faith” and behaving as just another identity pressure coalition. Being religious doesn’t seem to immunize a person against the… Read more »
“Being religious doesn’t seem to immunize a person against the universal virus of denying reality.” In fact, I suspect that over-ruling your reason in order to believe one unbelievable thing, may make a person more susceptible to the next unbelievable thing coming along. And a little logic shows you that at best, only one of the religions could possibly be true. When they all disagree about fundamental questions of reality, there’s only two possibilities: One is true, and all the rest are false or They’re all wrong. But they can’t all be right. So whoever does turn out to be… Read more »
“In fact, I suspect that over-ruling your reason in order to believe one unbelievable thing, may make a person more susceptible to the next unbelievable thing coming along.” Credo quia absurdum. And no, you are not smarter than Augustine of Hippo. “>>>> It becomes clear that the very nature of religious experience is to be felt as being self-confirming.” No, your basic error is that you are unable to observe things accurately but you don’t know that, and then you conflate what you think you are seeing with objective truth–gross subjectivity. Precisely what you are blaming the people you are… Read more »
Augustus of Hippo? Really? I’m not talking about my personal experience. I’m talking about what observation and applied logic tell us about religion. What I observe is that people of mutually-contradictory religious traditions— only one of which can be true— all testify to having the same sorts of experiences, which they point to in order to validate their particular set of beliefs. When my Mormon sister tells me that God has confirmed to her through prayer that Mormonism is true; while my Baptist friend testifies that God has confirmed to him that the Baptist picture of God is the true… Read more »
Mencken is always fun to read, no doubt about that.
Doesn’t make him right by any stretch of the imagination.
Pastors of all stripes love to talk about the great awakening periods of our history. How the pews were empty in 1790 and then suddenly… Same with the second one, the third one, etc. The last one was the Jesus Movement of the late 60’s and 70’s, which was particularly huge on the west coast. What I’ve told these pastors is look at their fruit. Don’t look at the movements in their day. Look at their end results, which I’ve lived through my entire life. At the end of each of these movements the church (no particular denomination) is left… Read more »
The pews empty once again.
“Many are called. but few are chosen.” Matthew 22: 14.
Empty pews are to be expected.
If the world doesn’t hate you, you are doing something wrong.
“Jesus is reduced to a peer that you go to the beach with or something.”
Delicious observation!
“What if….and this is just a thought….”
It’s about us *and* Him. Both things. We owe the sacrifice of thanksgiving. And He calls us together to give us certain gifts, which *is* about us.
It’s both; not “either or.”
Excellent post.
they are not empty at my trad cath church. cannot get a seat unless you arrive early, and we have 3 Sunday morning Masses.
Great to hear. There are churches like that in Belgium and France, believe it or not.
That Hagee video trying to raise money for Js was cringeworthy. I see similar ads on Fox asking for donations for poor Js in Israel. I get that evangelicals love Js, but the feelings are not mutual. It takes a special kind of stupid to send money to the richest demographic on the planet, that openly despises you. They may as well send checks to Pelosi and Biden for their ice cream budgets.
Those commercials are interesting. The dirt poor Jewish people begging in some Eastern Europe dump, maybe Ukraine or who knows. In this country , 6 of the 10 richest people are Jewish and yet they demand simple minded Christians donate to overseas jews. Donating money to people that hate us is not a good idea. I was watching the local news a few minutes ago. It dedicated 5 minutes, out of 22 minutes available, to a story on anti Asian hate crimes. The usual type of story with no mention that black are committing most of these crimes. It had… Read more »
“I see similar ads on Fox asking for donations for poor Js in Israel.” It tells you who the viewers are. The demographic that they will pay through the nose to pitch to. For example, Lou Dobbs’s viewers were clearly suckers for those “Holocaust survivors in Russia.” Camera showed a bunch of babushkas in wretched conditions–usually weeping–but they were always getting stuff delivered right to their wretched doorsteps by strapping young men. It was a jarring “tell.” But the buyers of the airtime didn’t care. And the marks in front of their TV sets didn’t see it. They ran that… Read more »
Why don’t the Bagelyte Oligarchs contribute more to the welfare of these allegedly dirt-poor co-religionists? The chutzpah of that woman (founder’s daughter) is impressive.
If you believe in God — particularly if you are a Christian — then why do you even care about any of this? Christianity always made it clear that we are not for this world, but for the next. If I believed in God then no matter what happened in this world it would all be temporary, and after it was over nothing would be lost, it would all still be there in the mind of God. That would be so reassuring! God has been willing to allow many disasters in the world, and if He is willing to allow… Read more »
“Christianity always made it clear that we are not for this world, but for the next. ”
Yes, my issue with God and religion has always been the “pie in the sky” aspect. So easy for the rulers to trick people into slavery with promises of heaven WHEN YOU’RE DEAD.
There may very well be God and a timeless heaven, but all I can directly know is this earth, here and now.
Much of what both of you mention as problens with Christianity largely come from the Protestants. Scofield and his fellow travelers did much to damage the acknowledgement that “faith without works is dead” and that Christians are called to take care of their fellow man. The elites want Christians as rootless as the cosmopolitans. Shit there was no apocalyptic Rapture doctrine until the mid1800s. The shift was pushed to prepare for the next life and stop making the world a better place. The Catholics held out a bit longer but Vatican II ensured that Globohomo gained control there.
“Shit there was no apocalyptic Rapture doctrine until the mid1800s. The shift was pushed to prepare for the next life and stop making the world a better place. The Catholics held out a bit longer but Vatican II ensured that Globohomo gained control there.” You are right on some of this and wrong on some. “The shift was pushed to prepare for the next life and stop making the world a better place.” Christianity has never taught that it was incumbent upon its adherents to “make the world a better place.” However, when the Church has been left alone to… Read more »
If I may respond to myself, I shall quote CONAN THE BARBARIAN: “I have known many gods. He who denies them is as blind as he who trusts them too deeply. I seek not beyond death. Let me live deep while I live; let me know the rich juices of red meat and stinging wine on my palate, the hot embrace of white arms, the mad exultation of battle when the blue blades flame and crimson, and I am content.” ” Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is… Read more »
And my other issue is say I get all religious and believe in God and all that. . .then what?
Still gotta pay the bills, still horrible people in the world ( that He created),etc.
He doesn’t DO anything, from a prosaic point of view. He does not smite the wicked ( who often win), he doesn’t stop bad things from happening to good people, and on and on. it’s like looking for a hero father all the time and saying, “where is he?”
In this world, belief in God and a quarter will get ya a twinkie.
God doesn’t cause the bad things, it’s a result of the “free will” He gave everyone, the freedom to make poor, or no, choices. God is just the steel in your spine that allows you to stand up to the bad things when they happen, in the sure and certain knowledge that all will be made clear after death. Here endeth the first lesson. (and yes you can be “good without God), as the billions who lived and died before Jesus appeared..)
“And my other issue is say I get all religious and believe in God and all that. . .then what?” And then you participate in “the life of the world to come.” Here and now. Still gotta pay the bills, still horrible people in the world ( that He created),etc. “He doesn’t DO anything, from a prosaic point of view. He does not smite the wicked ( who often win), he doesn’t stop bad things from happening to good people, and on and on. it’s like looking for a hero father all the time and saying, “where is he?” So… Read more »
There’s this weird thing people do these days where they discover, like, some extremely basic fact of life that the Church talked about and solved 1,800 years ago but they act like it’s some amazing new insight.
Like Fakeemail here: golly, man, I still have to work and, like, bad things still happen even though people believe. Has anyone even thought about that!!!
Jesus wept
“Yes, my issue with God and religion has always been the “pie in the sky” aspect.” Oh, really? Cite the Scripture text(s) where “pie in the sky” is taught as a Christian doctrine. I’ll wait. When you get tired of trying–and you will–cite for me where the Fathers said anything like that. When you get tired of that–and you will–cite me any Christian liturgy from any period of history where pie in the sky is taught. Or cite for me some authoritative evidence of Christian TEACHING (not popular piety, which is an entirely different thing, and has clearly confused you)… Read more »
That fear of the next world consequences for evil done in the human body in this world is a good thing. The Bolsheviks kept God out of their thinking and conscious so they were free to murder millions. The Bible tells slaveholders to treat slaves as fellow human beings. Contrary to the modern wokist’s rhetoric slavery is not a sin in the New Testament. Slaves have always been abused at times in all societies, including the American South, but for pure evil and murder on a large scale no one has exceeded the atheistic communists. We have much to fear… Read more »
“The Bible tells slaveholders to treat slaves as fellow human beings.” Okay, I’m drawing a blank here. Help me remember the reference(s) to which you refer. “Contrary to the modern wokist’s rhetoric slavery is not a sin in the New Testament.” True. In fact, in the Apostolic Constitutions of St Hippolytus, it is specified that slaves must get their master’s permission to become a Christian. That is how the early Church was administered. The churches were forbidden to accept any slave as a convert without the master’s permission. I know that the NT says that slaves must do their very… Read more »
We care about this world because it is the one in which we must dwell for approximately 80 years. Just because you believe in the afterlife, doesn’t mean you must accept hell on earth.
Ostei: While the fact that “We live here” makes the current world important, I would argue its ultimate value comes from it being a creation of God. He didn’t create mankind and place him to live in suffering and hell – he put him in the Garden of Eden. While human nature fell prey to sin, this world remains an incredible example of the diversity, complexity, and beauty of God’s creation. It is valuable in and of itself, in my opinion, not merely as a corrupted echo of the divine. I may not go out and worship a tree, but… Read more »
“ Christianity always made it clear that we are not for this world, but for the next. If I believed in God then no matter what happened in this world it would all be temporary, and after it was over nothing would be lost, it would all still be there in the mind of God. ” This is perhaps the biggest reason why I am so opposed to Christianity. Christianity tries to convert and hold our civilization in its grasp. Then when it screws up, it attempts to defend itself from any criticism on the position “they aren’t for this… Read more »
“Christianity tries to convert and hold our civilization in its grasp.”
Well, we don’t have one of those, but let’s skip over that part for now.
“Then when it screws up, it attempts to defend itself from any criticism on the position “they aren’t for this world”.”
This ain’t hard, bro. The people to whom you refer are *not* Christians, period.
And it doesn’t matter what you think or what they might say.
I think we have to separate “religion” from individual faith. After all, the Pharisees and rule followers were called out as hypocrites. Faith and belief is individual. “Who ever believes,” yes white people as well as non-white people. Works or fruits are a result of faith. Not vice versa, as this should manifest itself voluntarily. The parable of the talents for example. Over the years, I have come to view faith, Ephesians 2, as a guarantee of getting on the team/ heaven. But I don’t want to be the last person on the roster that contributes little, but a good… Read more »
“Christianity always made it clear that we are not for this world, but for the next.” I have hard time believing anyone agreeing with this statement has been raised in the Church, but as I’m not a scholar on all derivations of Christianity, I’ll give you a pass. Nonetheless, the implication of your statement is a misleading one Let me say simply that when I was younger and in Catholic Parochial schools, nothing could be further from the truth. We were in effect taught that such belief was itself—sin! We were put in the world for a purpose and to… Read more »
Yes, Catholics do believe in salvation through works, rather than faith alone. But the Church still teaches that the ultimate goal is Heaven, and that this takes precedence over anything in this world, so it works out pretty much the same. I didn’t say that if I were a believer I wouldn’t oppose Wokeism and CRT and the coming tsunami out of Africa — I think I would. But I would care about all of it far less, since in the end it would matter far less.
“ I didn’t say that if I were a believer I wouldn’t oppose Wokeism and CRT and the coming tsunami out of Africa — I think I would. But I would care about all of it far less, since in the end it would matter far less.”
Yes while the Byzantine empire was collapsing and being overrun by Muslims, a tremendous amount of energy that could have been spent on defense, was instead wasted on various religious factions fighting each other.
JEB the goal of heaven does not preclude an active and meaningful existence while alive, but I’m not sure it is based in good works=salvation belief. But rather that a believer wishes to follow in Jesus’ footsteps and in doing so naturally performs good works and other Christian acts of kindness. Catholic and Protestant—believe in salvation through *Jesus*, not specifically through accumulation of good works. This is stated specifically in scripture—not that I’m a big believer in that specifically, but talk to an evangelical and he’ll bite your ear off if you say good works accumulation will get you into… Read more »
At this point we are getting into the weeds of theology. So many people believe so many things, and I am in no position to judge whose interpretation is correct, even if I cared enough to try.
“But the Church still teaches that the ultimate goal is Heaven, … .”
Defining “Heaven” how, specifically?
That is crucial.
“I didn’t say that if I were a believer I wouldn’t oppose Wokeism and CRT and the coming tsunami out of Africa … .” Any *real* Christian opposes *all* of those things. The New Testament makes it very clear that God appointed the boundaries for ALL nations. It also teaches “Give not that which it holy to the dogs.” And I Timothy 5: 8 says this: “But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” “Denied the Faith; Worse than an unbeliever”… Read more »
Well put. Nothing good comes from ignorance in the long run.
There’s how you think your priorities would be and there’s how they’d actually be. The history of the Christians from the beginning down to your local church is a massive history of impact upon the world. Your local church probably does more for people every week than the largest national atheist organisation. Christianity is not a religion of “now you’re good to go, now quietly wait for death”, it always involves intense mental and physical action. Because on the other hand, why would this world be precious to you even if it was all there is? You know you’re going… Read more »
The problem is, I don’t think Christianity — or any religion — is actually true. (I could give you a long argument to that effect, but this isn’t the place for it). I’m willing to grant that belief might have many good consequences, but I’m just not the sort of person who can believe that something is true because it would be good if it were true.
” … but I’m just not the sort of person who can believe that something is true because it would be good if it were true. but you Christians ARE” is obviously the unwritten end of your sentence.
But that just tells us who and what YOU are, but tells us nothing about God or religion or faith or anything that you took a stab at.
You know I didn’t actually say that, nor did I intend it. I’m sure there are atheists out there who reject God because they think it would be better if He didn’t exist. But excuse me, I feel the need to descend to your level for just a moment:
Your a idiot!!!
Ah, nice to get that out of my system… 🙂
“I’m not talking secret mysteries either, it’s in the open, it’s just neglected, or forgotten.” Neglected. Of forgotten because neglected. And there are those–myriads or them–who allow our worst enemies to tell them what Christianity is or does or what it teaches. “This whole thing goes way deeper than anyone realises.” Well, that is overstated, for it is put to us point-blank in the NT: “Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! (Romans 11: 33) So we know that it is so… Read more »
“If you believe in God — particularly if you are a Christian — then why do you even care about any of this?” B/c we are the stewards of this world. It has been given to us to care for, and it is for our use and benefit, and it takes a special kind of stupidity to destroy the planet we have been given–the only planet we have. And b/c we have been called to be “the salt of the earth.” And for many other, similar reasons. And b/c this is the only world we have. “I particularly wouldn’t care… Read more »
This is a tendentious argument. Even if I grant that Christianity does not see non-Christians as brothers (I’m not convinced), Christians spent most of the last 2000 years trying to Christianize the world, which means at minimum that they saw all men as potential brothers. And the Bible certainly does not have anything to say about race (unless you believe that Cain thing, which is just stupid). Despite the diversity of interpretations of Christ’s words, no Christian church, aside from fringe sects, has ever hesitated to open its doors to non-whites. So what exactly is your point?
I believe the ball is in your court. Unless, of course, you don’t know what the Scriptures say and are not prepared to say so, preferring instead to call me
“tendentious,” and then tossing out your question rather than answering mine.
That you ae unconvinced is of no concern to me.
JEB, you freely admit you are a “non-believer”, which I and others have said “is fine” with us. Many in the DR movement are non-believers. We agree to overlook that and work together to obtain what we *both* believe to be the “greater good”. But then you begin to argue wrt what “Christianity teaches and believes”—that is to say, doctrine. You don’t discern a contradiction in that? Or at least an admission that you don’t possess the level of understanding with which to argue about Christian beliefs with anyone? Then, when IP points this out (really rather politely), you attack… Read more »
I was raised a Catholic, and there are Catholic clergy within my extended family. While I don’t claim to be an expert I probably have a better understanding of Christian teaching than the great majority of the general population. And I stand by what I said. It is undeniable that all major Christian sects have been willing and eager to open their doors to nonwhites, and from that I conclude that, whatever the technical standing of nonbelievers (which probably varies from sect to sect anyway), no one of any race is excluded from Christian brotherhood should they choose to claim… Read more »
St. Louis IX, King of France, cared about his people and took care of them and the country he was charged to rule. Christians are definitely obligated to do what they can to make their communities better for all.
“Christians are definitely obligated to do what they can to make their communities better for all.”
Yes, but that’ is not what we are talking about. And “everything in its own order”–the Household of Faith FIRST. “All men” afterwards.
The story of Christ is compelling and disturbing, to put it lightly. It reflects what human societies REALLY are. The corruption, the sin, that has completely wrapped around human beings. The crux of the faith of course is belief in the resurrection. As a child, it was always suspect to me that the dead Christ rose in front of a few followers and then “flew away” or something. Faith requires a leap of faith to just believe as a child and a belief that the biblical wisdom is true and will steer your people to prosperity. But that resurrection. .… Read more »
Carl Sagan pointed out that the more radical the claim, the stronger the evidence needs to be in order to corroborate it. To posit someone who was truly dead, coming back to life— something never seen before or since, and which according to all we know of the laws of nature, is physically impossible— would reeuire strong evidence. Which the Bible simply doesn’t provide. “It’s true because this ancient text, written decades after the supposed event, says it’s true” just doesn’t get you there. People believe because believing brings certain benefits; it feels good to believe. But they believe *in… Read more »
No. Many of us believe because we have experienced the miracle of Jesus’ intercession in our life. And if that’s not good enough for you, so be it.
Can u elaborate?
The events of which I speak are intensely personal and are not the sort of thing one divulges on the Internet. Were we to get together personally, I would be more than willing to share.
There are great intercessions as Oesti alludes to, and there are “smaller” intercessions (my experience I believe). I won’t elaborate with examples as this is not the place, but will say that as I get older and reflect upon “crossroads” I’ve come across in life—paths taken or not taken—and where those paths would have led, I can only point to “something” above my meager abilities which guided my journey here. This is known as Devine Grace in Christianity. In atheism, “dumb luck”. Grace is not “earned” and therefore never “deserved”, but to the introspective, thinking person, it is considered a… Read more »
Ostei,
Over my years of trying to be a Christian, I had many religious experiences, which I concluded later were self-generated.
And when you have Muslims and Christians both saying the same thing— “My supernatural experiences have shown me this is true”—
And logic tells you that only one of them can be right— if the Christian’s experience is real, then the Muslim’s experience must be false— you see that personal experience alone simply isn’t enough to validate one’s beliefs.
You really think I haven’t minutely examined my experiences for any possibility that they were self generated? I have, of course, from every angle, and can only conclude that the experiences were instances of divine intercession. To do otherwise, to give the benefit of the doubt to “natural causes” when the balance of the evidence lies on the other side of the scale, would be to kick God in the teeth for having blessed me. Frankly, I am neither that stupid nor that arrogant. As for the supernatural experiences of others, I can know nothing for certain about them, and… Read more »
Why a different experience of Devine intercession for Muslims and Christians. God only has one “people”. Now as to whether that “experience” and the interpretation of that experience was true or false is another story to be examined in detail, but I can’t believe God interacts only with Christians.
Ostei: Very well stated. Once one has genuinely experienced the reality of the Divine, all protests and doubts are for naught. It’s a case of “who’re you going to believe, the ‘science’ and the ‘experts’ or your own senses and experience. I was the ultimate sceptic, but I cannot and will not deny what I now know to be real. I don’t pretend to be a theologian or Christian apologist, but my faith is not based on a mere ‘desire’ or ‘choice’ to believe.
3g: Well stated. And it almost defies belief–but it’s right in front of us in b&w–that anybody having lived through the last two+ years would have the gall to yammer about “science.”
There are even people out there who speak about “settled science.”
Climate-change nerds, very often.
Just so. What is Richard Dawkins compared to a miracle in one’s life?
And, not that it matters terribly much, but the notion that the scientists and “experts” are univocally atheistic is errant nonsense.
“God does not play dice with the universe!”–Albert Einstein
3g4me, “Once one has genuinely experienced the reality of the Divine, all protests and doubts are for naught. It’s a case of “who’re you going to believe, the ‘science’ and the ‘experts’ or your own senses and experience.” I hear what you’re saying: I’ve had experiences like that, and I’ve known many, many people who have had them. But I’m not basing my argument on science, or the experts, or my own experience. It’s something I’m sure you’ve observed as well: people having religious experiences which feel genuine to them, but which logic tells us *can’t all be true* Logically:… Read more »
Carl Sagan doesn’t exist.
But…. when I pray to him, I get this feeling…. I feel the spirit confirming his words whenever I read them…. since I started following him, everything in my life has gotten better…. I just KNOW he’s real….
Sadly, I don’t think you’re being ironic.
“As a child, it was always suspect to me that the dead Christ rose in front of a few followers and then “flew away” or something.” Even allowing for the possibility that that was meant to be funny, it betrays an adolescent mind. Besides which, that is not what the Scriptures say, although ignorant “teachers” may very well have told you silly stuff. But by now, you ought to have matured somewhat from when you were 8 years old. “Faith requires a leap of faith to just believe … .” Kierkegaard is not an authoritative source. There is no need… Read more »
I am curious if anyone can think of another instance outside the French Revolution of a scenario where the religion of the dominant majority in a nation has been so attacked and undermined by the govt of the nation?
The only other that comes to mind is the Russian revolution, which was obviously an ethnic takeover from outside.
However, both these took place in an explicit revolution. It appears the west has had its own revolutions, with the same effects without anyone noticing.
“I am curious if anyone can think of another instance outside the French Revolution of a scenario where the religion of the dominant majority in a nation has been so attacked and undermined by the govt of the nation?”
The Khmer Rouge did it in Cambodia. The ChiComs did in China.
Another couple of revolutions.
Are there any non revolution examples like we see in the west?
“Another couple of revolutions. Are there any non revolution examples like we see in the west?” Oh, I see what you mean. Well, I’ll have to insist that revolutions take place in people’s hearts and minds and that the shooting comes *after* the revolution. So I’d therefore say that we have certainly been through part of a revolution and are still in part of it although there is now a counter-revolution underway, to demonstrate which I adduce this blog and its readers. So I’d have to say that what we see happening in the West *is* most certainly a revolution.… Read more »
The key is that Christianity per se is not attacked. The libs attack particular doctrines that they feel are “bigoted”; i.e. contrary to civil rights law. They do not attack belief in God itself so much: that peaked in the 2000s and has fallen out of fashion. A majority of the country now supports gay “marriage”, so its safe to say that Christians who hold to “bigoted” teachings are actually in the minority. They gave the game away in the 2020 dem primaries. Pete Butt-juice, the “devote Episcopalian” was put forward as some sort of spiritual guru, while Beto O’Rourke… Read more »
So you can still be a Christian if you deny all the core teachings.
That makes you a globohomo with the word Christian redefined to mean what?
Its the same corruption and wearing as a skinsuit pattern that these demons do for everything.
Leftists want Christianity as they would “define” it. That is not what religion is, if it’s to be anything. That the majority of folks believe this or that means nothing. One believes in the moral truth of scripture as passed down, or they do not. I would suspect that is one reason for the shrinkage of formal church affiliation these days. Churches are all too willing to “bend the rules” to put butts in pews.
God created those unique people. They are called nations. Never forget that.
Avoid the false Christians.They made a mess in the 20th century.
Good essay
It’s been painful for me as a Christian to watch much of Protestantism and the Catholic pope to fall into the grasp of our current age and its heresies.
We as Christians must recognize that some of us have been the progressive puritans, some of us have been the Christian Zionists, we have been part of the problem.
But we can be part of the solution also.
Traditional families and traditional faith can be the bedrock of our solutions going forward.
We, as men, are fallen and therefore are the problem. That fallen and evil men do evil things in the name of God, is not the fault of doctrine. In the strictest interpretation of the commandments, taking the “Lord’s name in vain” is the only *unforgivable* sin. This discussion indicates why.
“In the strictest interpretation of the commandments, taking the “Lord’s name in vain” is the only *unforgivable* sin.”
Not sure exactly what you mean. You mix together the Ten Commandments and a statement from the New Testament that specifies what the only “unforgiveable sin” is.
The only unforgiveable sin is attributing the work of to Holy Spirit to Satan. The “sin against the Holy Spirit.”
Taking the Lord’s name in vain has nothing to do with cursing. I should have been clearer. It has to do with using God as cover for your evil ways. To do evil in God’s name, to in essence make Him your “accomplice”, and therefore poison His image among men. The commandment is taken in the oft (juvenile) translation and typical of what is taught in grade school. This is precisely the level of understanding of most folk—even those of a religious upbringing. More complex interpretations and discussion is out of line for most people not schooled to greater understanding.… Read more »
I doubt they meant cursing, or curses.
False authority, or false prophets, is how I see it.
“I doubt they meant cursing, or curses.”
Right you are.
“False authority, or false prophets, is how I see it.”
No, it has to do with swearing an oath by the Name of God and then breaking that oath, usually by lying when you had sworn by the holy Name to tell the truth. That’s what is meant by taking the Lord’s Name in vain.
IP, I assume that’s one interpretation, but not one I am familiar with. My interpretation is explained above and I’ve not seen it contradicted.
“It’s been painful for me as a Christian to watch much of Protestantism and the Catholic pope to fall into the grasp of our current age and its heresies.”
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
The elect are not deceived, at least not for long. The people you refer to are either not among the elect or, if they are, they will come to their senses at the proper time.
Don’t sweat it.
Confession: I’m an unbeliever: an agnostic rather than an atheist. I don’t necessarily rule out the existence of a divine being; I just don’t think the God of the Bible provides an accurate description. And I don’t believe the Bible records real history. I was raised in a Christian household, and spent a couple decades trying to be a Christian, including years spent studying the Bible at a pentecostal seminary. All my family, including my then-wife, were Christian believers. I really wanted it to be true. But after years of study and experience, I finally decided that the Christian narrative… Read more »
” … years spent studying the Bible at a pentecostal seminary.” That was a mistake but, of course, life is lived forward only. But now that you know that what you were taught there was not true or correct, it doesn’t seem the right reaction to turn away from *everything* IF it is true that you “really wanted it to be true.” Courage demands another path. “I don’t waste my time trying to convince believers that they’re wrong.” VERY sensible. Total waste of time and energy. Pointing out to those who are in error exactly where and what their error… Read more »
I don’t think the creator question is the most pressing one. Technically there is a creator(s?). You can debate about it’s nature, blind death dumb, or beyond human comprehension and so on.
Whether there is an afterlife is I think the existential query of human existence. Without some form of continued conscience after death, what does it matter to the individual person?
I believe there is a third option between your description of “literal” and “cafeteria” style biblical interpretation. There’s is a “rational” interpretation which I believe focuses on the moral teachings as set in the days of the people who first were inspired and wrote the chapters later set into the Book. Not to drag on, but such would mean that a “literalist’s” estimate that the world is 6,000 yo is to be ignored—and this has rational explanation wrt the understanding of the authors at the time, but also that the sacrament of Marriage is never to be considered acceptable for… Read more »
Certainly the Bible contains much moral truth, regarding the best way to treat our fellow man. That’s why, in my opinion, Christianity continues to spread. Compared to many alternative ways of approaching reality, striving to lead a Christian life brings many benefits. But that doesn’t speak to the question of: ‘Is Christianity true?’ Or to put it another way: ‘Is the Christian narrative an accurate picture of the reality of the world we live in?’ I would submit that Christianity can contain a lot of true wisdom, while at the same time not being a true accounf of things that… Read more »
Good Lord! You have said so many things that I want to reply to that I don’t know where to start. This is probably the most important thing you have published so far. You have carried my own thinking past its former stopping point. It’s easy to see what’s going on, so I have for many years now been saying that the Lord is threshing the wheat to separate the wheat from the chaff, “which the wind driveth away.” Nothing has made that clearer than the number of self-styled “Christians” who offered no resistance–not even passive resistance–the the Chinkypox shutdown… Read more »
I’m about a quarter through that book. Very interesting and thought-provoking read.
It’s not for the faint of heart. Glad you are reading it. It’s a “spell-it-out” and “take-no-prisoners” book.
>>Here is a *must-read* for *all* Dissident Christians. It will arm you to the hilt. Published in 1970, it predicts with pin-point accuracy where we were heading, which was right where we are today:
https://chalcedon.edu/resources/books/politics-of-guilt-and-pity<<
Great summary, Infant!
And a great book it is!
Be sure to follow it up with his 3-volume Faith and Action, and his most famous work, Institutes of Biblical Law.
Thanks, wyatt the warner, for the recommendations. I didn’t know about either of those.
Zman, this was a very thoughtful and insightful post. Thank you for respecting Christians, and trying to reconcile people of different beliefs into a dissident community. I am a practicing Catholic, and have had good exchanges with atheist and agnostic dissidents. It is also possible to find a local church that doesn’t kneel to the gay marxist agenda. The current Pope is awful, but local parishes are free to teach what they believe is right. Before the 2020 election, the monsignor at our church gave a stirring homily, basically stating you cannot vote for Democrats because they openly violate the… Read more »
“It is also possible to find a local church that doesn’t kneel to the gay marxist agenda.”
Can confirm. It may be difficult or time-consuming, bit it *is* possible.
And this is no time to throw in the towel.
Christian multiculturalism. Let me share a slice of that grim picture from the Western U.S.: I know a European white mother/grandmother who is a divorced practicing Catholic (remarried to a divorced Jesuit), is a member of her parish’s liturgical staff, was once the parish marriage counselor, and takes communion to this day. Her daughter is a lesbian, divorced and “remarried” and also takes communion, and is a family therapist (private practice). The daughter’s adopted children were christianed Catholic. Several in the extended family are divorced, two have had children outside marriage, and all take communion. A couple of them married… Read more »
I just want to add that I became a race realist through an uncomfortable, eye opening process long before Barack Obama or George Floyd. Los Angeles has that effect on some of us.
I now prefer to be with my own kin and kind. European white, culturally Christian. I miss my country.
“I don’t think they make them like that anymore. I’ve never met one.”
Oh, yes they do. Even in France and Belgium, believe it or not.
That’s reassuring to know. I just hope the Muslim invaders don’t continue to slice the throats of French priests.
I don’t think there are any priests here in the U.S. of that caliber (Bishop Sheen). Most are like that Father Mike Schmidtz fellow or Bishop Robert Barron. Not promising, not inspiring.
They will continue until force is applied in the other direction.
“They will continue until force is applied in the other direction.”
Well, or they’ll just die out. They are mostly Boomers.
This is one of those places where the accusation of “Boomer!” is both accurate and well-deserved.
They will soon be gone.
@infant.
i don;t think many of the muslims slitting throats are boomers.
“Most are like that Father Mike Schmidtz fellow or Bishop Robert Barron. Not promising, not inspiring.”
They are on the way out, though, and the generations after them have much sounder instincts and are much better instructed.
There is no Easter Day without Good Friday. Don’t forget that.
I agree with much of your post, but a young priest at our parish made some good points when I expressed similar thoughts to him. First, don’t let anything men have done, either in the ministry or congregation, come between you and God. Second, be careful about judging those who take communion. Someone you know who might be gay, divorced, an adulterer, or a sinner in some other way, may have recently confessed and repented. Gays might also be celibate, in which case they are still in communion. He said this did not apply to hypocrite politicians like Pelosi and… Read more »
A superb article. Z addresses every key point on the topic of Christianity’s fate in degenerate liberal democracy, and does so with polish and style. As for my experience as a Christian, it gibes with Z’s depiction. I was a regular attendee of a large and well-established Methodist church until the Covid lunacy effectively scuttled all church attendance. During this period, the church’s minister, whom I liked and respected very much, retired. He was replaced by a younger man who periodically brings in a Hutu activist whose job it is to dragoon the white parishioners into supporting Burn, Loot, Murder.… Read more »
Anytime I see some protestant church telling everybody how they completely support Israel, I know they’ve been infiltrated and are all fake. Those people have no problems with Jews killing whoever they want to, for no reason, in Israel. I have a bitter disdain for any of them, and always tell them what I think about it. Needless to say, I don’t get invited to churches much anymore.
The biggest stumbling block I see as a Christian dealing with secular dissidents are with the ones who are most racially aware. Jesus did command us to love our enemies after all. That and the antisemitic ones can’t seem to get past the fact that Jesus was ethnically Jewish.
My personal peeve is when supposedly religious dissidents try to shoehorn their ideology into Christian doctrine. It don’t work that way. I usually just cite some scripture that they are contradicting and leave it at that.
I agree that this is the big stumbling block. Most secular dissidents (such as myself, I suppose) are not anti-Christian. In fact, most of us are very sympathetic to the Church and see its role in society. Where we have an issue is the universalism that so many Christians espouse. The vast majority of Christians on Gab are the most ardent colorblind CivNats alive. “We’re all God’s children” is their favorite line. If there’s no place in Christianity for the preservation of a unique people, then I suspect that the secular dissidents and the Christians will never be able to… Read more »
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again–if you are not a race realist, you are not a dissident. And that goes for Christians, too.
I agree with you. Unfortunately, having zero background in Christianity, I don’t know if it’s possible to bring the two together. Personally (and ignorantly), I don’t understand why it’s impossible to be a Christian who submits to God and who believes that God made our people and that we honor and acknowledge our people as a way to honor and acknowledge God. Yet, all I hear from Christians on Gab – and what seems to be the case with Christians that I know IRL – is that “We’re all God’s children” so we shouldn’t differentiate between the races of the… Read more »
There’s a lot of false Christianity and a whole lot of crap on Gab.
I ignore all that. There is a lot of good there, too.
Was Hernan Cortez a Christian? I say he was and that all he accomplished for the faith was the ending of industrial-scale human sacrifice and converting an entire continent to the faith. Find me a man who did more in the last 1,000 years.
Was he a race realist? Of course.
Problem solved.
They are called retarded fuckwits and should be ignored.
It’s easily possible to be race-realist and Christian. Everybody gets their own people and their own culture. It’s that simple. The passage most used to support multi-cult, Galatians 3:28, was never meant as a command to miscegenate. It was simply an acknowledgement that our souls are of equal value to God. If you can like your neighbor while also banning him from living in your house, then you can be a Christian and a race-realist. “We’re all God’s children” but if blacks living in North America causes problems… as it has since their arrival… then they can become God’s children… Read more »
Not sure what we/you mean by bringing dissidents—believers/nonbelievers—together. Why? We can work together, until we’ve rid ourselves of this agreed upon secular pestilence. At which point, we go our separate ways.
There were non-believers among our Founders. We can argue whether they were more aptly classified as agnostics, deists, or atheists—yet they put together a pretty good idea for an alternative governing system.
They had one thing in common, a dislike for their current system of governance. And so DR’s do as well.
“Christians on Gab – and what seems to be the case with Christians that I know IRL – is that “We’re all God’s children” so we shouldn’t differentiate between the races of the earth.” Ask them to cite the specific Scripture(s) that support their view. And don’t take any prisoners. This is FAR too important for that. And yes, it certainly *is* possible to “reconcile” these two positions, but *only* from the Scriptures and the Patristic writings. But there is an *appalling” ignorance of all of that, and an even more appalling lack of interest and of serious minds. I… Read more »
What I see with universalism is a weird inversion where believers show great concern for complete strangers and outsiders, yet disregard their own people. I interpret 1 Timothy 5:8 as specifically stating that those who do not provide for their own kin are worse than unbelievers. Or there is the weird doctrine that somehow Whites are collectively guilty for things done in the past, like having their own unique form of original sin for slavery and racism. Even worse, it seems they must keep apologizing for it, as if Jesus’ crucifixion and resurrection doesn’t cover the “sin” of white privilege.… Read more »
“I interpret 1 Timothy 5:8 as specifically stating that those who do not provide for their own kin are worse than unbelievers.”
There *is* no other possible interpretation. In fact, the word “interpretation” is out of place here. It is perfectly straightforward.
The people you are talking about have *no* idea what Christianity is nor any idea what is in the Bible. They are not Christians. They worship themselves and their own false “virtue,” and they have a great time doing it.
Avoid them. They are outside the Household of Faith.
Citizen,
“If there’s no place in Christianity for the preservation of a unique people, then I suspect that the secular dissidents and the Christians will never be able to come together.”
Especially ironic, seeing as how one of the main themes of the Old Testament involves God’s efforts to forge the Israelites into a unique people; including his repeated advice/commands to them to avoid inter-mingling with the pagan peoples surrounding them.
The OT God was NOT a fan of inter-racial marriage!
Exactly. And in A.D. 70, God cast them off forever.
Even their so-called “Wailing Wall” is a fake. The old city was utterly destroyed in the standard Roman fashion. Their “wailing Wall” is a medieval Crusader structure.
We know this from the records of the Empress Helena’s pilgrimage to Jerusalem. She was Constantine’s mother.
The New Testament also makes clear that Jerusalem was utterly destroyed.
I remember Z man wrote once upon a time that he was a lapsed Catholic, but still preferred to live in a Christian society. I think that bond we all feel for western civilization is intertwined with Christianity and it should be acknowledged as one of its foundations.
Citizen: We may all be God’s children, but He created the distinct and separate races . . . to be distinct and separate. There will remain numerous ‘nations’ in Heaven. Loving one’s neighbor depends both on the Christian meanings of ‘love’ and ‘neighbor.’ Love is not mere sentiment; it’s an action verb, involving acting in what is in someone’s best interest as a Christian. That does not equate to inviting them to share one’s home or join one’s biological family or historic nation. They can be Christians amongst their own people, not interlopers among ours. I find no conflict between… Read more »
“I recognize this seems to be uncommon today.”
Yes, you’re right, and it is to this that I refer when I speak about appalling ignorance of Christianity’s primary source document, the New Testament.
“Christian” is now often used as a non-religious euphemism by the left and its allies for “White Caucasian Normie.” They can’t (yet) come out and say they hate you because you’re White, so they deflect with another, more acceptable, term. They’ve been doing this for decades in movies, books and television. Back in the 90s, they were mocking “religion” but I always had the suspicion there was more to it because 99% of their mockery was devoted to conservatives, republicans, rural & small town people. They were mocking the people and not just the beliefs while being very careful never… Read more »
“. That’s wholly different from what I remember the censorious religious right pushing in this country back when it was heavily religious. ” This is largely a fake meme. There has not been an effective “Christian right” in my lifetime and I’m in my early 50s. The evangelicals backing the neocons is hardly what I would call political power. The alleged “censorship” (god, do we need MORE censorship) of the alleged “religious right” (what they really mean is Christian) is another fake meme. Frankly, we would now be MUCH better off had an effective and censorious Christian Right ever existed.… Read more »
“They can’t (yet) come out and say they hate you because you’re White, so they deflect with another, more acceptable, term. ”
I haven’t noticed any hesitation to do so.
To the extent that happens, it’s a recent phenomenon. Leftists always had excuses and code words back in the day. That’s what “Christian” was really about. Modern example: Jon Stewart’s racist tirade against “white farmers.” He’s simply a bigoted Jew looking for acceptable stand-ins for white gentiles. That’s really what he means by “white farmer.”
Loving one’s enemy doesn’t mean offering up one’s own people to genocide.
Can we agree that loving your enemy is terrible advice?
“Jesus did command us to love our enemies after all.” You have not seriously studied the Scriptures, so your confusion and disappointment are partly your own fault, and you can do something about that. Get to it. And be careful in your choice of a teacher. The New Testament was not written in English, but in Koiné Greek. That’s the first thing. The second is that Greek and Latin have different words for “enemy.” This is a comment thread, so I’m not going into αγων (agon) and “inimicus.” I’ll say only that Christians are commanded to “love” (another language problem)… Read more »
Similar misinterpretation of murder/kill in the “thou shall not kill” commandment. Hell, even the Gospels don’t always quite agree on what occurred and what happened. Not a big deal, but it’s difficult to explain to one with no training/upbringing in any Christian faith or historical understanding of the times.
“Similar misinterpretation of murder/kill in the “thou shall not kill” commandment.”
Exactly. Good point. Good post!
The mistakes you pointed to are the reason I never read scripture. It is foolish to read scripture in your own language and without training necessary to figure out what it means. It is also highly tempting to read scripture in a way that agrees with all your biases. You end up with abominations like prosperity gospel or those WWJD wristbands.
It’s sad we cannot look to the national level denominations or 90% of who they trained, for help in study of the scripture. But there are still some knowledgeable and faithful men to look for spiritual guidance.
“You end up with abominations like prosperity gospel or those WWJD wristbands.”
Made me laff!
Great post. Good points all!
Be careful in choosing a teacher. The population has been deliberately dumbed down. When you start talking to them about the Aorist tense of Greek verbs, they zone out. It’s not on TV, you see, so they can’t be bothered with it. It’s too hard. They would have to DO something.
“My personal peeve is when supposedly religious dissidents try to shoehorn their ideology into Christian doctrine. It don’t work that way. I usually just cite some scripture that they are contradicting and leave it at that.”
Lay it on me, my son. I’m all ears. Quote me the Scriptures that you think puts these “supposedly religious dissidents” in their place.
Yep. That’s the elephant in the room as far as Christianity is concerned: Jesus (or rather, Yashua) was completely Jewish and an orthodox one too. He never came to start a new religion; he wanted to reinvigorate the old one. It was Paul, who never knew Jesus or his teachings, who dragged it off into a whole new sphere of bizarre Hellenism.
I have to disagree with you there. Jesus said he is the truth, the life and the way, and no one gets to the father except through him, and his body and blood are the new and everlasting covenant. Js have never believed any of that. Pretty hard to say that he didn’t mean to start a new religion.
On second thought, Jesus is the Messiah prophesied in Isaiah, so along your line of thought, it could be argued it is not a new religion, and if true, it is the Js who abandoned their faith.
“Yep. That’s the elephant in the room as far as Christianity is concerned: Yep. That’s the elephant in the room as far as Christianity is concerned: Jesus (or rather, Yashua) was completely Jewish and an orthodox one too. He never came to start a new religion; he wanted to reinvigorate the old one. It was Paul, who never knew Jesus or his teachings, who dragged it off into a whole new sphere of bizarre Hellenism.” Good Lord. Are there still people ignorant enough or stupid enough to fall for that old nonsense? And insisting on “Yasuha” is a particularly grotesque… Read more »
Steve: That’s not what scripture says. Jesus specified that He personifies the law and His sacrifice supersedes Mosaic Law. His teaching was in direct conflict with the Jewish ‘experts’ of their day, the Pharisees (who hated Jesus and orchestrated his arrest). He called them Children of Satan. Jesus may have been raised in the historic Jewish nation, but he was, by no modern definition, a Jew. In addition to which, modern Judaism is essentially Babylonian and teaches what the Pharisees did – in direct contradiction of Jesus’ teachings. That may not be a ‘new religion’ in your terms, but it… Read more »
Did YOU KNow HiS nAMe wASN’t evEN JEsUs, iT wAS YEshUA!?!?
Absolute derp.
What I never really got being half-Jewish and following DR politics is how these people latch on to the most hard core version of Nazi antisemitism as a default. Historically there are degrees to antisemitism: Chesterton and Belloc were a bit anti-Jewish and had complicated and non-PC views on the issue, as did many Catholics at the time, WASPs in America wouldn’t want Jews attending their Country Clubs or working in certain businesses, the French right-wing before Vichy wanted to deprive Jews of civil rights but had an entirely non-racial viewpoint, and accepted assimilated secular or Catholic ethnic Jews as… Read more »
The Orthodox church in Russia is far more aligned with Russian culture than most anywhere left in the west. It seems to be in resurgence as part of a pushback on the anti-society death cult in the west.
Its also still heavily tied into the military and has recently finished a massive Military cathedral in Moscow and the Bishop is ex army.
Perhaps its partly a religious war disguised as a political one?
If the war is not religious, it is certainly cultural, at least in part. Much of Russia’s loathing of the West, with Ukraine an exponent, is motivated by revulsion toward Western degeneracy and a desire to prevent it from taking root in Russia. The puissance of Russian Orthodoxy may be the strongest bulwark against Western putrescence.
Ostei, and it works the other way too. Much of the sheer hysterical hatred towards Russia we see from the West today comes from Russia’s adherence to Christianity and its refusal to bow to sexual perversion.
Yep, and that’s why I tend to back Putin in this current situation. He may be an evil bastard, but it appears he does the right things to support the Orthodox Christian institution in Russia. I’ve given up on any American politician to do such here.
Indeed. The cultural conflict between Russia and AINO is more stark than the ideological one between the USSR and the USA.
The same happened in Afghanistan. The average person there had little truck with the full Taliban program, but it was seen as much more preferable to them than the evil poison the United States attempted to dump into its wells.
The current war is just a continuation of what started in Serbia, and is in fact seen as some pay back for Kosovo, which had enormous significance for Orthodoxy. While I think the proper approach for the DR is complete indifference, the struggle against the Empire is still glorious to watch.
“Perhaps its partly a religious war disguised as a political one?”
Of course it is. It was never anything else.
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”
Ephesians 6: 12
Irrespective as to its origin I completely agree with this.
The spiritual aspect greatly outweighs the material one.
We’ve still got a week left for the Orthodox, but Holy Week is a time for big reflections and this is a big one to be thinking on. The lessons of Good Friday are many, but the one that’s stuck out to me lately is that God has not asked anything of us that He, as Christ, did not already endure for us. We must be ready to bear the Cross, and bear it gladly, whether that last a minute or a hundred years, and that endurance is how we shall know ourselves, our brothers, and our God. May God… Read more »