The Deep State Interface

One of the weird things about this phase of liberal democracy has been the normalization of conspiracy theories. Thirty years ago, everyone, regardless of their political inclinations or what they thought of the other side, dismissed the claims of the conspiracy community. At best the deep state conspiracy was a plot device for a fantastical Hollywood script. At worst, it was a sign that the person may be struggling with mental illness.

Today most people think there is a deep state. In fact, the phrase deep state has become a normal part of discourse. In conventional politics it can mean anything from the leaders of both parties to nefarious forces controlling the institutions. George Soros is part of the deep state, even though the deep state is supposed to be a shadowy group of people unknown to the general public. Even secret societies need to be personalized, so the deep state has many public faces.

You do not have to line your clothes with aluminum foil to wonder if there is not something going on off camera that explains what is happening. For example, the berserk effort by Western government to “decarbonize” the West looks like a suicide pact by a collection of cult leaders. How can these people really think it is good idea to shut down Dutch farming to save Gaia? How does returning Germany to using wood for heat make any sense? There must be something else.

Of course, we all know that there is no such thing as a deep state but it is not hard to see why people are open to it. It is sort of like the concept of space-time. That is, it is an invention of mankind to help explain the universe. The fact that it does not exist is not really important because it allows physics to explore the universe. At some point it will be abandoned for a deeper understanding. The same may be true of the deep state in that it works for now, even though it is not real.

For example, when you see an ad for something like plant based milk you are supposed to think, “why yes, I would prefer this over actual milk.” Then your brain reminds you that we have no need for plant-based milk. We have plenty of actual milk. The reason we have lots of real milk is we invented refrigeration so that we no longer have to rely upon things like almond milk. That is when that concept of the deep state fills in the blank and you begin to wonder what they are up to with this.

This is when someone chimes in about lactose intolerance, but you do not build a church for Easter Sunday and you do not build an industry for people who cannot digest milk enzymes. Similarly, you do not invest billions on meat made from twigs and bugs that “tastes almost like real meat!” Similarly, you do not bother inventing eggs made from grass that are almost like real eggs. These are solutions in search of a problem, perhaps a problem contemplated by the deep state.

Now, solutions in search of a problem are not new. The e-book was supposed to replace the real book, but there was never a need to replace the book. It was the result of two thousand years of evolution starting with the early Christians. By the 20th century it was the ideal solution to distributing the written word. That did not stop smart people from pushing the idea of the e-book. Innovation is as much about bad ideas and it is the few good ideas that are genuine improvements on the old ideas.

In the present age, the managerial class plays an outsized role in picking winners and losers, so there is money to be made exploiting their hopes and fears. This has always been the genius of Elon Musk. His projects all tap into the boutique beliefs of the managerial class. He is a futurist selling futuristic solutions to the problems of the future to people haunted by the prospect they will not see the glorious future. They are willing to spend your money to achieve their dreams.

Klaus Schwab is working the same grift. The World Economic Forum is a crackpot idea that appeals to the vanity of the managerial class. It did not get much traction until he was able to hook a few billionaires to attend his event. That was the validation needed to turn the thing into Burning Man for the managerial elite. They go to be seen with their analogs in the other parts of the managerial class. The deep state vibe is part of the appeal to people who spend their days in committees.

What has happened over the last thirty years since the end of the Cold War is the Western managerial class has evolved both a class consciousness and a messianic religion that binds them together. It is why they have become so paranoid about the people over whom they rule. A big part of being a Cloud Person is thinking about how much you disdain the Dirt People. Displaying your cloudiness is often just expressing your contempt for dirtiness.

This is why the concept of the deep state has caught on. From the perspective of the Dirt People, it looks like there is a secret set of hands guiding the movement of the clouds and the people inhabiting them. When all of a sudden, every chattering skull on television is chanting “keev” you cannot help but think it is scripted. The ads for food made from bugs make a lot more sense when you imagine a secret cabal plotting to kill off farming to please Gaia.

Like space-time, the concept of the deep state works because it allows for the further exploration of the environment in which we find ourselves. The fact that it is not a real thing, at least not in the way it is used, does not matter right now. Blaming Klaus Schwab or Bill Gates for the current crisis is fine. Waging war on the people profiting from the system is almost as good as attacking the system itself. For most people, raging against the deep state is comforting.

Just as the reality of the universe lies beyond the interface of space-time, the reality of the managerial state lies beyond the deep state. It is not a collection of super villains controlling the world. It is a system that produces the super villains it needs to control the population over which it rules. If Klaus Schwab did not exist, the system would simply invent him just as physics invented space-time. These bad guys are a necessary interface to the managerial system.

There is another aspect to the deep state interface. It is comforting. The people invited to the soiree’s like WEF and Davos get to think they are influencers, shaping the mind of the deep state actors. The Cloud People can be sure there is a powerful force guiding their hand. The Dirt People get the comfort of knowing there is a rational actor behind the movement of the clouds. Perhaps he is amenable to reason or perhaps he can one day be defeated by the Dirt People.

Maybe like space-time, the deep state interface will be useful in breaking the system open to expose its internal workings. On the other hand, it may come to be a great impediment to understanding the world. There are some who think space-time has inhibited our ability to understand the universe. Regardless, the deep state does not exist, but it is useful. Like electric cars and milk made from bugs, it has a purpose, even if we cannot be sure whose ends it serves.

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255 thoughts on “The Deep State Interface

  1. Curtis Yarvin lays out a plan today on how to beat the ‘Deep State’.

    Worth reading.

  2. National Security and Double Government by Michael J. Glennon

    ” U.S. national security policy is defined by the network of executive officials who manage the departments and agencies responsible for protecting U.S. national security and who, responding to structural incentives embedded in the U.S. political system, operate largely removed from public view and from constitutional constraints. The public believes that the constitutionally-established institutions control national security policy, but that view is mistaken.”


  3. So the conclusion is that the deep state is largely an illusion? I agree with that.

    Put any group of people together and the most able (or most motivated) will splinter off and start scheming in a corner to exert undue influence, with the aim of keeping themselves in their comfort zone. That’s human nature – it will always happen and always has. For the sake of a proper definition and clarity of discussion, I don’t call that a deep state. For a pure example of the deep state look to Thailand, where the surreptitious machinations of a small section of society to keep themselves in power have been breathtaking.

    Conspiracy theories arise due to insecurity, paranoia, or the simple inability to understand. Some of them are correct, but because the paranoid have cried wolf so often, they don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt.

    I think the explanation is more often sociological (bottom up – arising from the swirling of the masses) rather than political (top down – arising from the scheming of a few). To illustrate, take the crowds at a British football match. There are two opposing groups motivated by competition with each other. From time to time a chant arises, sometimes quite elaborate, and is taken up by half the stadium. Of course there is a ring-leader who starts the chant, and his clique who pick it up – then it spreads. This looks exactly like it is scripted, managed, deliberately planned and executed, but in fact it is entirely spontaneous. It’s an amazing phenomenon. Point is, what we often take for political manoeuvring in society, is actually the result of a groundswell with the leaders simply riding the wave. Real world examples: Marx, Mussolini, Mao. A real deep state is one that goes against the wave and I don’t see that happening in the US.

    • “Conspiracy theories arise due to insecurity, paranoia, or the simple inability to understand.”

      I have often noted this attitude of condescension among those who deny the glaring lies staring us all in the face. Frequently they then go on to appeal to History and the Learned Men, somehow missing the fact that it (and they) are replete with examples of conspiracies that failed. The ones that succeeded are not bandied about, of course.

      If I do not believe Arlen Specter’s Magic Bullet Theory to explain the JFK assassination, I am a benighted morphodite sitting in a pile of my own feces, struggling to understand. Got it.

      The drug of Ego Stroking for keeping the peasants in line is as potent as Huxley’s soma, and rarely acknowledged. Reassured that you are smarter than the average bear you will buy snake feathers in train-load volume, apparently.

      • Exactly. Well done.

        “Akschully, yeah, they coordinated an assassination in secret and then had their propaganda organs lie about it, but that is in no way a conspiracy theory. Those are for rubes.”

        The Dissident Right also is full of virtue signaling cucks, and the worst kind of cucks since they don’t realize they are cucks.

  4. Of course there’s a deep state Kosher banker money drives it home. The talmud describes us as cattle, cattle we shall be if these hebrews have their way. Who prints the money? Who owns the media and the politicians who don’t represent you? 911, Kennedy… we;re on a jewprisonplanet. Wake the fuck up. Death by injection, death by war…they don’t care as long as we die.

  5. “It is sort of like the concept of space-time. That is, it is an invention of mankind to help explain the universe. The fact that it does not exist is not really important because it allows physics to explore the universe. At some point it will be abandoned for a **deeper understanding**.”

    Spacetime, as a *mathematical* model is self consistent and empirically accurate to the limits of our measurement and predictive ability, including successful detections of the LIGO gravity wave detectors. However I agree with the “deeper understanding” comment. It is simply math. It is the logical result of two premises:

    1. The principle of equivalence.
    2. The local speed of light in a vacuum is constant for all inertial reference frames.

    There is no metaphysical explanation given. No reason for WHY the local speed of light in a vacuum is constant. What is the nature of the vacuum such that it has this property? In fact, it historically seems to have precluded any further fundamental elucidation.

  6. Ok, I just had to comment on this delicious article.

    It’s an amazing piece that basically describes the deep state whilst simultaneously denying it exists. Deep state, managerial state, whatever you want to call it, of course it exists.

    The difference is these people are now telling you their plans right to your face!! There is no need to hide in the shadows anymore. You literally have global depopulationists pushing experimental gene therapies on the public.

    I mean, what in the actual… That is why the twitter feed of the Alex Jones is always right guy is so funny. They literally turned the frogs gay…

  7. OT: B125 mentioned a while back about the Ukraine being the historic Pale of Settlement. Maybe it’s been said here or on some livestream or corner of the internet, idk I don’t get out much, but…

    Nationalism is rising; Russia is rising; the US is in decline; Putin plays ball with Jewish oligarchs, is one of Klaus Schwab’s Young Global Leaders, and is ‘denazifying’ Ukraine. What if the end game of the whole affair is the Ashkenazim moving back? What if it’s some bizarre, bloody negotiation we’re watching play out? How wild would that be?

    Anyway, passing thought, just throwing it out there.

    • “Give us a defensible homeland, clear out the White Christians living there, and we will make you rich and lift your nation to power. Afterwards, you will a ward protector worthy of paying jizya
      (protection money) to.”

      They did the same, btw, with Islam.
      More than plausible, I think this is their way.

      Russia obeys the covid program.
      A new framework of a new order is being hammered out.

      • Perhaps Ghadawar (Saudi oil) is playing out, or has done its job. Now, positioning themselves smack dab in the middle of the Chinese Belt might be seen as a better strategy for next few generations

        A Russo-Chinese century, after the Anglo-American one..

  8. The “deep state” is just a shorthand way of saying that the civil service does not reflect the demographics and beliefs of the citizenry, and this has consequences. Politicians are supposed to command the deep state, but in reality distract the citizens and entrench the deep state’s position of power.

    Our deep state is mostly recent, a consequence of ordinary grillers abandoning the cities in the mid 20th century for the subdivisions, leaving all the important administrative and government jobs behind for “free market” grifting. The people who remained in the cities tended to be religious fanatics, sexual deviants, and racial nationalists, and all too often all of these things at once.

    Color revolutions happen when this urban mob seizes power and all the suburban grillers can do is write letters of protest.

    Ironically, politicians were originally so bad (people hungry for power, not born into it) that government bureaucrats were seen as an improvement and more representative of ordinary citizens, and this was true in the late 19th century at the time of the Pendleton Act. The subdivision and television revolution had not yet inverted this organization.

    • Well put. Like Napolean said, he doesn’t rule France; a thousand bureaucrats rule France.

      In practice, I don’t think it could be any other way once a group gets to a sufficient size. The problem is not that a “deep state” exists, the problem is who comprises it. The long march through the institutions guarantees victory.

      • and by group being a sufficient size, I am referring to the size of a nation, not the bureaucrats.

    • The proper meaning of “moot” is debatable not irrelevant but the common usage seems to be changing.

      According to your wife we are irrevocably doomed. Got it.

  9. In Physics, timespace is a model. It’s been a productive one. To say it’s been falsified or validated is ludicrous. It can’t be tested, any more than “dark matter.”

    • Newtonian mechanics was never invalidated. Quantum mechanics will not be invalidated. It will simply be superseded my something else that better explains the universe.

  10. Today’s is like describing a corporation.
    It doesn’t really exist, only as a paper fiction, and yet it does. It does work, is its own thing, and real things happen.

    Either way, after last night’s opening, Tucker is a dead man walking.

    • I don’t know about that. You’re under the assumption that the hoi polloi will react when the the deprivation and corruption of the Biden’s, with torches and pitchforks.

      I think they will simply put more briquettes on the grill.

      And when the rest of the media ignores it, will it have really happened?

      Until the “elite” are dragged from their lairs kicking and screaming, nothing of consequence will happen, or change.

      And everyone knows it.

      • Quite the opposite- I think the deep state will not stand for this exposure and insult to the Biden regime.

        Tuck’s about to have an unfortunate plane accident.

        • “Tuck’s about to have an unfortunate plane accident.”

          It is touching that you believe Tucker Carlson represents genuine, organic resistance, or any ideology representing a genuine, organic threat to the status quo.

          If the foxes own the media henhouses, why would they allow a fox hunter a platform to preach their own overthrow to the chickens?

          When Tucker Carlson names the source of the subversion publicly I will reevaluate his motivations and loyalties. Maybe.

  11. I still believe that the “deep state” is real, it’s just not as “shadowy” as a conspiracy theorist might think.

    The deep state, by my reasoned definition, is the collective of non-elected bureaucrats who live and work in Washington in various capacities. The bubble they exist in tends to create a “birds of a feather” mindset. Remember that “journalist” who bragged about all the different underground and behind the scenes things that were happening to prevent Trump from being re-elected? That’s the “real” deep state. They operate like a row of ants following the pheromone trail to a source of food. Or like a school or fish that reacts in unison to a threat. They don’t have to actually have a “head of the snake” or inner onion layer operating out of a subterranean labyrinth in New Mexico. It is literally the hive mind that controls their actions.

    It seems like a coordinated, controlled effort precisely because everything is done in perfect synchronization. The individual actors each only play a small role which would seem rather insignificant if not for the herd consensus amplifying it.

    • Everyone can see the coordination qnd everyone can see that such coordination should be logistically impossible.

      The parsimonious explanation is also the most ancient and cross cultural… the Devil is real. The people acting as his instruments are dupes who generally believe they are acting of their own will, his most reliable shock troops are the same folks that murdered Christ and have been trying to do the same to His followers for the last couple thousand years.

      For the religiously committed this should be obvious enough. The secular should contemplate the possibility that IF the supernatural exists this explanation is not only obvious but even necessary.

    • This is an excellent comment, and I agree with your definition of what the “Deep State” does (how it behaves) as opposed to what it is (secret cabal or self selected fraternity of like-minded bureaucrats). Now go deeper.

      Behaving more or less as a school of fish, what will they do when faced with a tangible existential threat? Yes, they can put up razor wire and hide behind a phalanx of Jackboots, but that only works if the threat is obvious and easily defensible (pitchfork mob). But what if the threat is amorphous and unpredictable, seemingly arising out of nowhere, at any time and from any direction, coming in different forms and via different mechanisms; where the only common denominator is that there is no common denominator? Do they stay and pray, or flee in fear of the unknown?

  12. I respect Z Man for writing an article that he knew would meet almost universal criticism from his readers. That’s some big balls you got there my friend. Respect.

    My only comment is that he describes the observable effects of the deep state but then says that there is no deep state. It seems like a distinction without a difference.

  13. Zman, you should carry some antler gear (re: Heilung) in your online store! an antler codpiece would be killer 😛

  14. I never realized how many commenters on here see themselves on Team Dirt. You shouldn’t see yourself on this team against the cloud people team. At best you should be a reflective dirt person. You know you’re a dirt person, you know that you have no power, but you also have, if you’re on dissident sites, understanding that 99% of dirt people don’t have. Understanding that makes you a Dirt person Ex-Machina. You’re part of the machine, but you can also step outside of it, and see the big picture. Almost no one can do that. And once you see all the cogs and how they work, you may still be a cog, but that doesn’t mean you root for the other cogs. That’s stupid. It is what it is.

    • I think it’s just about being proud of your team. Call us what they will, but what’s important is that we’re on the same team. Things played out such that we assumed the name The Dirts, not that we see ourselves that way.

      Maybe Pig Pen from peanuts can be our mascot.

      That said, your point is well taken. I also think few of us here are “middle class” but we use that term more to mean normal working people regardless of income or affluence. It’s more a camaraderie among people who value honest work as opposed to grifting and scheming. It’s a personality type iow.

    • I’m probably the most annoying snob here, with somewhere near the “best pedigree” (mother a CIA-controlled feminist, even) and I have no respect whatsoever for *any* of my peers, nor for anyone who has any respect for any of them.

      The fee for entering the cloud is being (not becoming) a moronic monster. Of all the ruling class’s public representatives, only Trump and Musk can sometimes pass for human—and their passing consists only of “memeing” and having sex with famous women.

      Pol Pot was right…but he was Asian, so he was too autistic about it.

      Dirt 4 lyfe, even if I can’t talk to them about anything.

  15. This is a radical step but would making all digital evidence inadmissible in a court of law and create a digital bill of rights for employment fix a lot of things?

    The only exception would be if someone robbed a Walgreens. The admissible evidence would be from the store video and that video alone. A security camera at a neighboring store wouldn’t be admissible.

  16. Books are a lot older than the early Christians. Maybe that’s not what you meant to say?

    We have millions of Sumerian clay tablets, entire libraries of the earliest books, from the 4th century B.C. The Egyptians came up with papyrus scrolls in the 3rd century B.C. The modern book (codex) was invented sometime in the 2nd-3rd centuries A.D.

    • It’s well known that papyrus, parchment, and paper are hugely effective media for archival purposes.

      By comparison, the lifespan of magnetic tape, CD/DVD/Blu-ray, hard disks, and solid-state electronic memory is laughable.

    • What Z was referring to is the codex (what we know as “a paper book”, that is, a set of paper sheets assembled together)

      Before early Christians, texts were written in scrolls, made from papyrus or parchment. Early Christians championed the use of the codex because they could fit the Bible in a codex. By contrast, a scroll could only contain a book of the Bible.

      Some books of the Bible were too long to be contained in only one scroll. This is why you have 1 Kings and 2 Kings, 1 Chronicles and 2 Chronicles, meaning “the first scroll of the book of Kings” and “the second scroll of the book of Kings” and so on.

      The codex finished with all this. There were a lot of pages that could contain the entire Bible. Before the e-book, all books for millennia were codices. This is why we use “book” when we mean “codex”

  17. Well, it looks like normie day on steroids around here. Conspiracy theorists ranting about a “deep state” that doesn’t exist. Okay.

    I’ll say that our manipulation goes far beyond the “deep state” characters, who are nothing but a few gears in a far bigger machine system. And if you can sit there and joke about people who talk about how the Federal Reserve takes out a life insurance policy on every person in this country, and cashes it out upon death, I suppose the joke is on you.

      • no. anybody who wants to can take an insurance policy out on you. I don’t know why ofr how the fed would do this , never heard it before.

  18. Like space-time, the concept of the deep state works because it allows for the further exploration of the environment in which we find ourselves. The fact that it is not a real thing, at least not in the way it is used, does not matter right now.

    That’s why I just call it “the Jews.” Whether it’s true or not is a matter of supreme indifference to me: our people need a personified enemy and “the Jews” will do just fine.

  19. It is good to know that all those billionaires, government officials, industry leaders, and media personalities meeting at Davos, Bildeberger, Bohemian Grove, Sun Valley, and myriad of other gatherings and conferences around the World are only talking about their golf game and their grand children.

  20. From speaking to my lefty associates over the past few years, the only people who think there’s a “deep state” are right-wingers. Most lefties still think that money rules everything. That and a hidden cabal of white supremacists.

    Try it for yourself. Next time when you’re talking to a lib, say “corporate media” and even the most dedicated NYT reader will grant you that the media’s all about the money. Then switch to “state media” and the lib will protest.

    • Of course the Lefties think that.

      They are deeply embedded in the ideological herd/flock/school of fish that is in power, so of course they will fail to see how their group is influencing events.

      • In my experience, every left wing person denies any media bias exists except for fox news. It’s really quite a phenomenon. The things they listen to sound normal to them. They’re mentally ill…

    • This is a recent trend. At the end of the 1992 Tim Robbins mockumentary “Bob Roberts” there’s a bit with Gus Fring as a paranoid newshound ranting about the totalitarian stitch-up and the prison planet, etc. At the time I was struck by the self-seriousness for a scene that could easily be rendered as “satirically” as the rest of the film was. Dems underwent a sea change at the Clinton era which to me suggests a greater worldwide shift. The Dave Brooks book about the bobos touches on this. 1968 emotions were funneled to universities and quangos/nonprofits which are bureaucratic monolithic people-threshers— but “the good kind” of megacorp. So we’re on the cusp of the 2nd gen of “left-wing” to come up idolizing Apple and Google and Mama FBI, which is odd but did not happen overnight. It could be liberals are less fearful of capitalism now because it has delivered for their people. It’s difficult to combine the unified materialistic view of life with admiration for Jose Bove “left populist” stunts, the two don’t mix.

      The flip side is, I’d laughed at the topics so compelling to the paranoid style of the Anglophone Left in the 90s — the evils of Walmart and free-trade coffee — which I find decidedly less funny. The Klein faction may have had a point there.

  21. “When all of a sudden, every chattering skull on television is chanting “keev” you cannot help but think it is scripted.”

    Here’s where I think you are in error. I believe it (MSM) is scripted, or at least content controlled/coordinated. I have an example of such on a national level. Way back when, I was listening to a national talk radio syndicate broadcast. There are several such large multi station, multi host syndicates. Think of their TV counterparts like ABC or CBS. The host, still on the air, began to speak off handedly of his morning “conference call” that included all of the channel’s well known “talkers”. At least four of them were on at various hours on the channel I was listening to.

    The gist of his discussion was that these various show hosts had agreed upon their “talking points” for their day’s scheduled shows. In short, they coordinated/agreed what was “news” and how each would discuss such “news” on their shows. That is how you can turn on “different” channels/shows and hear host after host discuss the same topics with bizarrely similar takes.

    I have no doubt that this type of coordination takes place throughout the MSM industry. Whether or not such is mainly organic or under control of shadowy figure(s) like George Soros, I have no opinion.

    • Well, not so very long ago there was this constantly updated catalogue of topics and attitude to adopt toward them called “Journolist” that was promulgated amongst the ranks of those who fancied themselves to be “Journalists”, and hence entitled to, if not duty bound to maintain messaging discipline in AINO. It was exposed, but no doubt exists in a more discreet form, tightly controlled among those in the know under penalty of cancellation with extreme prejudice. You can be sure that it exists by its signs: uniformity of message; timing of its dissemination.

      • Yep, you know them by their signs. It’s really too coincidental for a reasonably intelligent, thinking person to accept that all these people come to the same realization, same understanding, same reaction basically simultaneously and independently.

        Now of course, after a news cycle 24-48 hours, there are the great unwashed masses that jump of the band wagon and imitate/believe what they have be subtlety show by such sources. That does not rule out such sources coordinate among themselves in some way—not necessarily illegally—but coordinated wrt a narrative to be maintained.

      • Its like the election fraud denials: sure there is fraud and repeated, disparate instances of it, but there isn’t “comprehensive” widespread fraud. Right.
        There are huge numbers of examples of out-and-out media and deep state coordination, from the Waco raid just happening to have local tv news affiliates on hand to Journolist. We know explicit coordination happens. But we dont have a smoking gun for each and every iteration of message coordination, so the election wasn’t tainted by fraud. Your Local Pharisees would approve of that conclusion.

    • I see it as being similar to how a school of fish can seemingly all change direction at the same time despite not having a leader. Cloud people have created conditions for themselves in which being a nanosecond behind the times on any topic means you’re a sexist, racist, transphobe and will get called out on it. So they’re all hypersensitive to the current thing and will rapidly shift to spouting the latest buzzword, creating the perception that they receive marching orders every morning. One cloud says “Our Democracy” and within a day they’re all repeating it like demented parrots.

      • Yes, but that is question begging. Where does the buzzword come from? Ex machina?

        • It’s how a flock operates. One bird at the periphery sees a hawk and starts squawking then pretty soon they all are. It doesn’t make that particular bird the leader.

    • Soros is just a bag man. If he suddenly dropped dead, he’d be replaced within 48 hours. I bet if we saw a list of the 100 most powerful people on the planet, we wouldn’t recognize a single name.

    • This is only possible when all of the “talkers” share a worldview. They do.

    • Aren’t the Associated Press and Universal Press the only sources used by 99% of news outlets? And outlets is a perfect description- they are basically distribution centers for whatever AP and UP feeds them. So contr those two and you control the rest.

    • This is common sense. We’ve known all this for some time. The neoliberal gun narratives aren’t working anymore..

  22. “It is not a collection of super villains controlling the world. It is a system that produces the super villains it needs to control the population over which it rules.”

    I agree with this. And the system is what I call the Power Structure. The Power Structure, which exists in perhaps every Western nation, but whose most important instantiation operates in AINO, is composed of every important information-controlling segment of society. In AINO, the Power Structure is first and foremost, the federal government, the media, big corporations, academia, and the entertainment industry. Metonymically, we can denote these sectors as Washington, NY Times, Wall Street, Silicon Valley, Harvard and Hollywood.

    Now the Power Structure has no formal organization nor an executive body. It is basically a group of very powerful and influential people who parlay the traditional prestige of their given institutions/entities into redoubled power by affirming the views, positions and policies of all the other institutions/entities in the Power Structure. What we wind up with, then, is an ideological monolith that exerts almost monopolistic control over AINO, and derivatively, the West, in general. There is very little need for coordination, plotting and scheming because the archons of the Power Structure automatically operate in seamless accord with one another.

    This is not a Deep State, but it bears more than a passing resemblance to what people are talking about when the mention the Deep State.

    • Doesn’t hurt that saying a joke about the Js or questioning the WWII narrative is like wearing a shock collar on a dog.


      So it keeps people in line. That has been their secret weapon.

      What interests me is when that shock collar no longer works.

      I think that time is coming up, and fast. Batteries are dying.

      Now I am not saying is it all about the Js, but that everyone up there has used this same weapon, and the racist card too. And not saying all of them believe in it, they just know its power in controlling the dirt people. When that power runs out, that’s going to be fun.

  23. Just another happenstance, utter coincidence. They want to virtue signal their deference to Gaia, and they are too stupid to realize what this will mean for agricultural production . . . or to consider the follow-on impact on world-wide hunger and mass immigration. There’s no possible coordination or funding behind these crackpot ideas and actions. There’s no connection (in concept or time frame or execution) except in the fevered imaginations of some.

    As goes Holland, so too Canada:

    • While I agree in general with your comment, I do wish you and others would stop claiming the people in control are too stupid to understand the harm they are doing. They know exactly what they are doing and believe they will get whatever food, etc, they want and need when the system collapses.
      They are evil, not stupid.

      • Not all of them. There isn’t that much evil in a pure concentrated state to go around quite frankly.

        Most are just stupid and inexperienced with the real functioning world. You see the same thing with religious people. The house can be burning and rather than put out the flames they start praying. That’s just the way they roll. People are like that. And most are women, and women who aren’t practical minded will believe anything. Such that stopping cow farts will save the planet and Not that it will put 200,000 farmers out of work. Or starve millions. Their minds just don’t work that way.

        The problem here is that the people who should know better have been boiled off, run out of town, or too cowardly to fight back. General Miley comes immediately to mind.

        Bottom line, there are simply not enough good and talented people in the higher echelons where important decisions are made. And that right there, that has been a deliberate purge, no question about that. No conspiracy there.

        But like I say to whomever will,listen, so much of this is tied into a generation who is dying. The day after the Pelosis of the world die, the bidens, the scwaubs, it’s a new era and new ballgame. And we have to ready for it. 90% of the stuff that today seems relevant and important if not critical is not going to matter. We all need to keep our eyes on the ball and develop a discerning eye for the little that truly matters

        • I just can’t believe they are so stupid they have no concept of the damage their actions would cause. I could be wrong but I also believe there is an endless supply of evil just waiting for any takers.
          A quote I saw recently sums it up pretty well:
          “So we’ve reached the ‘Some of you may have to die, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make!’ stage of elite decadence.”

          • I get what you’re saying, but we all know people who are blind to what we consider the obvious. Why I brought up the religious person partying while the house is burning rather than doing something to stop it, because I know people like this. In fact most people might fall into a similar category. I know plenty of people who have zero concept on farming and that if they want to limit cow gas and go about by eliminating the numbers of cows in the world, they won’t make the connection of the problems and heartache caused. They’re just oblivious.

            But that quote from Albright, yes, she’s an evil bitch, but she’s not the typical dumb lady working for the EU tasked with implementing the schemes and isn’t bright enough to see the damage it will cause. She’s just a tool, or a useful idiot as they say.

            My two cents, but blanket claims of evil among these people I think are wrong and misplaced. My own experience tells me people aren’t like that. People are often weak and cognitively limited, and then to say they’re evil is pretty much to say their Creator, or our Creator really, is evil for making them that way, and I neither think nor believe that.

      • Rowdy Moody: I assumed regular readers here know my views and would immediately understand the implied sarcasm.

  24. Hey Z, seeing all the back and forth, it might help for you to define the deep state, what you mean by it, because I suggest there is confusion in the ranks.

    I take it to mean shadowy figures working in the shadows. Which may be your meaning of it, while others rightfully see it as a permanent bureaucracy acting in its own interest and for its own benefit. Plus all the hangers on trying to get in on the action, the politicians, etc.

    Per my definition, there may have been a deep state at some point but it has been exposed and thus can longer meet the definition of being deep. But there is no doubt that a permanent bureaucracy exists along with some rich and powerful men who wield massive influence.

    • I always use the word “regime” not “deep state”. “Deep State” infers that there is a secret cabal with it’s own agenda, making “regime” seem like a better fit because these people make no secret of their presence.

      • Yeah and I think “deep state” makes it more intriguing and interesting, rather than the more appropriate term “regime”

        People like a good story, an interesting narrative.

        I grew up among political people, so for me there was never much mystery to politics, I always saw it as important people in town trying to keep things in order and the lid on. It was actual governance, so I never took much interest in it despite various people thinking I’d be good at it and wanting me to consider getting into it. But that didn’t change the guy mowing my lawn whom I became friends with, or the roofer, from believing there was some mysterious force running things. I could never convince him otherwise.

        So I see both sides, and I also love a good story as much as the next guy.

      • I understood “deep” to refer to its entrenched nature rather than strictly secretive.

    • It seems useful to me to remember the first time I heard the term “deep state”. Maybe I wasn’t paying attention, but I can’t remember hearing the term before 2015 or so, around the time Trump was campaigning.

      It appears to me to be a term injected into The Hive Mind by the media itself. For myself, Noticing cracks since the Waco Debacle, I used the term “Shadow Cabinet” in my own private ruminations. While this name is not original to myself, I feel it sums up my conception of the Ruler Caste quite well. Both terms convey the nature of the entity better than “deep state”, which is just more milquetoast misdirection from the overlords who own all the media / academia/ social megaphones.

  25. Butter is bad! Use margarine! (oops, it will kill you)

    Frying in beef tallow is bad! Use hydrogenated oil! (oops, that will kill you)

    Fat in Pringles is bad! Use olestra! (oops, it gives you diarrhea so bad you’ll wish you were dead)

    Beef is bad! Use “processed” bean/bug burgers instead (oops, I see a pattern here)

    How in holy heck do we keep falling for this?

    • The only bit of advice I ever took from Steve Sailer was that you want to have a diet that your family had and allowed them to live a long time. I always lived by this, just following on the cuisine traditions of my family, and I did it without giving thought to it, but as I drifted further and further from my people I made it more into a formula to live by.

      • Be careful about taking health advice from Steve Sailer, promoter of the Jonestown Jab.

        • Well, he xame a cropper on that one, to put it mildly. In his defense, he did have a close brush with cancer, and he got kinda touchy about things that might kill ya, but forgot that the supposed savior vaccine might actually be the instrument of disability, if not your death. And then he quadrupled down on his cultlike belief in the efficacy and safety of the vaccine. And this from the supposed master of “noticing”. It’s a rare day I read his output anymore. Oh, well.

          • Lately he’s taken to angrily defending Biden’s honor against dirt-commenters who claim—without evidence!—that 85 IQ Joe is a self-evident mental cripple (as he always has been) who’s not even President of his own underpants.

            Everyone’s consistent. You just have to spot their *line*. Sailer’s is: The establishment is better than you, and so am I.

  26. No deep state? Great news.

    I always suspected “deep state” was just more squid ink deployed to keep white men from noticing that it’s the Jews.

    • The more and more we notice that it’s significantly the Js, the faster they are going to want to be seen as being on our good side. Things will start to change, however crawlingly and gradually.

      The crime of the century was not allowing whites to follow in the footsteps of their people and maintain a skeptical view of the Js and allow jokes about them. That’s what keeps them honest. They need to know the boundaries or they run amok.

      I remember in high school the best way to keep them honest and in line was to allow jokes to be told about them, and the jokes flowed through those hallways all the time. And we had a decent number of Js, but by making fun of them it made them want to assimilate. When they get treated as different and special, like they are today, they can’t handle that freedom and like I say run amok.

      But it’s not like any of this will be allowed to happen, not when so many important people have married into them. But calling them out is not something that can be suppressed forever. So probably going to see lots of fireworks.

      • My first experience with this was in HS. Jews comprised something like a half a percent of my HS student body and yet their parents on the school board (gee, how did that happen?) always managed to get the start of spring break week to coincide with Passover Sunday.
        My junior year, they lost the election for school board and the new board members made sure that Spring break week would follow Easter Sunday. I didn’t think much of it at the time, but one of the new board members (who we always suspected was mobbed-up) told the most vocal yenta at one of the baseball games who tried to get in her face, “No, you people have had your way for far too long on too many subjects, there’s a new sheriff in town, get used to it.”
        My parents later told me and my brother what that woman (the mobbed-up one) meant and most of it was what you would consider administrative stuff that would make your eyes glaze over.
        Apparently after that little exchange, the former board members got quiet and some of them put their kids elsewhere. We’ll take our victories where we can get them.

  27. When you say if Scwaub didn’t exist, the system would create him, the system IS the Deep State.

    • The old equivalent to the WEF is the Masons. The Masons were a creature of the people who belonged to it, not the other way around. If there wasn’t a Schwab with his WEF scheme-scam some other high-watt grifter would have cooked up something similar.

  28. The Deep State, that some sort of a porn film or something?

    In all hilariousness though, I’d be curious to know how effective a deep state could be if it did in fact exist, presumably to enforce ideological purity or compliance among the populace. Perhaps the east German DDRs Stasi police state was one of the most effective we’ve seen.

  29. “Of course, we all know that there is no such thing as a deep state . . .”

    Z-man, this is a credibility killer for me and why I’m looking at this blog less and less.

    There is always, ALWAYS a deep state. The powerful behind the curtain are always, ALWAYS conspiring with each other to enhance their power. Everything else is illusion.

    • But you don’t think that it has taken on a life of its own?

      True, at the outset there were a few key people concocting some scheme to control us, academics mainly and a few oligarchs, and they may have constituted something we could call a deep state, but they needed a flock to carry forth their vision. Right? They needed converts.

      I think we are at that stage now where the massive flock they needed is finally all assembled such that we are past the deep state phase and into the implementation phase.

      That the members of the flock are revealing themselves to be ludicrous and fools notwithstanding. But that was always going to be part of the equation, yet something the original deep state planners hadn’t seemed to have game-planned for. A little too clever for their own good, they were.

    • If you, me and everyone else can see it, it’s no longer deep

      Not anymore

      Not saying it wasn’t at some point. But times have changed. People need to keep up and stop living in the past

    • If you are here to have your beliefs confirmed, you have entered the wrong place. This is not that.

      • I was noticing that he’s already gotten 22 upvotes. Maybe this is that?

        • Good point

          I think what we’re seeing is the DR splintering on the idea of the deep state

          Looks like 10% are skeptical and agnostic about it but 90% hold by it.

          It’s a complicated subject though. And it needs to be defined.

          For example, if we replace “deep state” with “regime” as has been noted, we’d find greater common ground.

          • “It’s a complicated subject though. And it needs to be defined.”

            Exactly. One of my earlier posts deals with this. But, you see the difference between the left and the right with this issue. The left is like, “Tell me what to say.” The right is more individualistic. “The term Deep State is inaccurate. I think we should use the term regime.” “Yes, I agree.” “I disagree. The term Deep State is both descriptive and already in use.” “Well, its in use just cuz you’re stupid!” “Oh, yeah. Stupid this, asshole. (Thud)”

            I am not wedded to anything. However, once something is defined, so be it. Continue to use it until it enters the vocabulary. If you don’t, you’ll get schisms from the Silly Party until you have the Very Silly Party, and then the Very, Very Silly Party.

          • The Deep State is the permenant bureaucratic bee hive that defends itself against all others but has no intelligence of it’s own. The Other are the smallish group of men who have learned to enthusiastically control the hive for their own ends. Their object is to take everyone into the hive excepting themselves.

  30. This post is spot on. There’s so little I can add to it. I have reservations that the dirt people will ever cogently understand what’s going on. Dirt people are not philosophers and take their politics in broad strokes. All they know is prices going up >>>Strange European man on TV telling them to eat bugs >>>Politicians on private jets to consort with European Man>>> Therefore conspiracy.

    I’ve never been on the ground floor of a revolution, but I can imagine that even with the Capital burning down the dirt people doing it see only broad sweeping strokes. Man in marble building stole from me >>> Get him! You can sort of see this with the mobs in Paris during the French Revolution, etc. At no point do the dirt people sit on a bench and contemplate just how stupid their rulers were. So stupid in fact that they locked down the world over a stiff cold virus. These people see our de-industrialization as a back yard camping trip.

    • We are at the point where the two, the clouds and the dirts, have to interact with each other, where implementation of the plan conceived of on high now needs its functionaries to bring down into the dirt. And the results are quite humorous. They had to hire Laquisha to bring the plan from the castle to the fields, and it’s not going to work out for them like they may have hoped. Yeah I guess they do have unpaid interns and volunteers, Karen’s if you will, but if they start guilt tripping the dirts too much more they are going to face some serious and direct physical consequences.

      Moral of the story, this is the beginning of the end of their grand vision.

      The lead up was all the fun. And there might not be any climax to speak of.

  31. I think we’re in a memetic crisis, or that thing we’ve come to call a purity spiral. The elites are all the same and want the same thing, which is to be the most pure, the best practitioner of the new religion. In fact, everyone who lives in the same frame of reference desires the exact same thing, which is why neighborhoods that are hardly elite sport the latest “pride” flag or Ukraine flag or have written, “I dissent,” on their cars or have a, “In this house we believe…” sign out front.

    So, of course they all land on the same nonsense. A purity spiral has to be like that: everyone thinks the same things and hates the same things and wants the same things. And the ancient mechanism for fixing this problem before everyone rips everyone else limb-from-limb is to find a group of scapegoats upon whom all the ills of the community can be attributed. And, for obvious reasons, the best scapegoats are going to be those who aren’t involved in the purity spiral – precisely because they are the ones who are least pure, see?

    There are a number of implications to this. Here’s one: when you see the mob forming up and planning on doing you harm, there’s no reasoning your way out.

    • America has gone through periods of religious revival.

      I had always assumed that the revivals happened among the dirt people, grassroots, Midwesterners and rural folk, from the bottom upward.

      What today is teaching me is that religious revivals can happen among the elites while the dirt people are unaffected and unmoved, top to bottom revivals. But this may be a yankee thing and probably has happened a number of time before.

      • I do think there have been several secular Great Awakenings among the Yankee Puritans since witch burning went out of fashion. Abolitionism springs to mind. If you really look into that movement, there was a lot of nuttiness there as well. An inordinate amount of time and space was spent on the horrible possibility the owners might have sex with their slaves, as one example. There continued to be a traditional religious element tied to abolitionism, but the thread had started to wear thin.

        Scientism was probably the first iteration that shed the old-time religion. Social Darwinism, for example, explained why there were disparities in wealth and intellectual ability. Obviously that is at loggerheads with the radical equalitarianism of the present day, but oddly it laid the groundwork for the Blank Slate because, science.

        Upper classes, Yankee or otherwise, always have been suckers for cults and strange mass movements. The staunchest believers in the Fairy Pictures craze of modern Britain tended to be Clouds or Cloud-adjacents.

        Woke likely is the most insane ideology in human history, and it is all fun and games until the mushroom clouds billow.

        • It was Europe that burned witches (well into the 18th c. in the case of Poland and Hungary.) The Spanish in Santa Fe and the Puritans in NE hanged them. Not that it makes it better, but fewer than a hundred were hanged as opposed to the many thousands who were executed in Europe.

  32. I’ve understood the deep state as the permanent bureaucracy + regulatory capture, roughly. That’s a dry notion, so why would it have caught on with the public and merged with conspiracism?

    “You do not have to line your clothes with aluminum foil to wonder if there is not something going on off camera that explains what is happening.” The craziness and instability, especially when it seems unstoppable, makes you think there must be some hidden, malevolent hand behind it. I certainly have.

    On a personal note, the ideas are coming faster than I can string them together coherently, along with increasing indifference. That usually means a solution is at hand, if that makes any sense at all. Exhilarating, at any rate.

    I would add I still think there’s a hidden, spiritual hand behind it, call it Satan, bad ideas, or insanity. People aren’t acting right. But again, once you can get beyond the actors and see the evil running them, or the big picture, or whatever you want to call it, it’s because the danger is subsiding. Soon it’ll be a matter not of limiting damage but dealing with the mess. If that makes any sense, too.

    Anyway, enough wacky talk lol!

    • So here’s a coherent thought, and I’ll let it be. The idea that democracy is totalitarian (because all-consuming) and illiberal (because Consensus!) is hard for me to swallow as a brainwashed American, but it gives a logic to things I can otherwise only ascribe to religion, insanity, etc. It also solves some contradictions if democracy isn’t Democracy! Hence my excitement.

    • “Satan… wacky… lol!”

      If I were you, I wouldn’t laugh out loud at the Father of Lies.

      My guess is that he is deadly serious about what he does.

      And that he always has the last laugh.

      • He is for sure, but deception must be a weak power if human minds can figure it out, so he must be a weakling. Satan deserves mockery (forgive me), then pity, then indifference. Which, of course, means he’ll be back at some point, but that’s how God set it up, I guess. Were it possible to end lies entirely!

        • “He is for sure, but deception must be a weak power if human minds can figure it out, so he must be a weakling.”

          You are woefully misunderestimating your foe.

          And your arrogance is precisely the tool which he will wield to destroy you.

          Assuming he is indeed your foe; that you haven’t already jumped into bed with him.

          • Maybe arrogant, idk, but I’ll admit that in a past life I was wicked in my own small way, and I paid my small price for it, and learned some little bit about evil— enough to know to fear God only and to not be so timid or passive. But feel free to cast doubt. I’m just a nobody on the internet with an opinion, and others can make of that opinion what they will.

        • “Satan deserves mockery…”

          Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

          -Jude 1:9

          Something to think over, perhaps.

          • Satan lost, was stripped of glory and reduced to deception. I don’t think I’m above being deceived, but mocking losers is one of those things that makes me possibly heretical, admittedly.

    • A sizable chunk of the Old Testament can be summed up in the first verse of Proverbs 21:
      The king’s heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord;
      he turns it wherever he will. (ESV)

      God indeed uses tyrants and evil people to accomplish His purposes. That does not make Him evil; that’s what it takes to get the attention of those who are stiff-necked and disobedient, including whole nations.

      Give the prophecy of Isaiah a read. Substitute America for Israel. See how well it fits.

      • I don’t remember the whole book, but being ruled by women and oppressed by children sure has fit and hopefully is starting to change!

    • this is a scourge of god for the shirt of Nessus that is Protestantism .protestantism is the devils religion. Jews are satans agents , but the devil created protestantism

      • Seems to me Protestantism might be called the Germanic church, with all that implies.

  33. Think about all these news events that receive major coverage for a few days and then we never hear another word about them from the police, government, or media. First there was a huge story about a “biracial” boy who was supposedly hung with a noose by a bunch of white kids in New Hampshire (which predated the Jussie Smollett hoax by a couple years). After a day or so of hand-wringing on the major news networks, the story predictably started to unravel, and there has been absolutely nothing said or printed about this story since. Then there was the mass shooting in Las Vegas which the politician gun grabbers did not touch, the media did not endlessly dissect for a motive, and which there hasn’t been anything said or printed about since the week it occurred. And finally there was the panic about the guy sending “pipe bombs” to news networks that they covered breathlessly for several days until they supposedly picked up someone in a deep blue district in Florida driving around a comical van paneled in industrially printed sheets designed to mimic a bunch political bumper stickers. The locals were never interviewed about him and absolutely nothing has been printed about this guy and what subsequently happened to him, in stark contrast to the thousands of stories written in the past 2 years about the theoretical person who planted pipe bombs at the capitol on jan 6.

    • That’s because all those other crimes were committed on just plain old dirt. The sac-religious pipe bomb incident (real or imagined) occurred on higher ground upon the magic dirt surrounding the sacred shrine to Democracy and the hallowed halls therein – peace be upon it.

  34. “George Soros is part of the deep state, even though the deep state is supposed to be a shadowy group of people unknown to the general public.”

    Soros and Schwab are just Emmanuel Goldstein’s for the right. Rule of thumb: If you know their name and have seen them on media, they are not in charge. TPTB do not wish publicity. What they are doing can get them killed so they hide in plain sight or in a bunker.

    Saying that the “Deep State” doesn’t really exist is just an exercise in semantics. There is something, so people define it. Call it what you want.

    • I really don’t think they care about guys like Soros or Schwab being out there in the open or hidden. They say what they want for the rest of us, and what are you going to do about it?

      The world global leaders do things like reaching into citizen’s banking accounts (Trudeau) and get away with it. It’s all out in the open. Why do they have to remain hidden?

      • Why do they have to remain hidden? The same reason they are trying to get rid of guns. They’re potentially targets if the “wrong” people know who they are.

        • George Soros openly says he wants to destroy America. What more could anyone who’s hidden say?

          • And when some Nip with a home made shotgun takes him out, it won’t matter. The machine will still exist and now will have a martyr for the cause.

    • Soros has been getting his anti-Prosecutors elected left and right with nary a cross word from his nominal “political opponents”. He might not be “in charge” but he’s pretty high up the pyramid.

      • Soros is high up there, compared to, say, the White House Press Secretary, but he is mostly a front. The money he dispenses is not his to give. He is instructed what to do and does it. Consider him a “lieutenant colonel”.

  35. The biggest problem I have with e books is that I lose my sense of linearity and time lines. Example if reading the Bible we know Exodus comes after Genesis or that the epistles of Paul were down through history from Isaiah.
    But with an I phone and an E Book you just type in the reference and it pops on the screen.
    No sense of where you really are on a timeline.
    Like a GPS.
    Type in an address but you get no feedback as a real printed map gives as to your actual location on the planet.
    Most people don’t even know how to read maps anymore.
    It’s a disconnect that removes us from the bigger picture.

    • GLG,add to that the fact that they aren’t taught basic math skills anymore, nor are they taught to read and write in cursive any longer,when the power goes out they will be helpless. Cashiers can’t make change, and we come to find out our grandkids can’t read our Christmas cards. As the saying goes, thank a teacher.

  36. You’re quibbling.

    “Just as the reality of the universe lies beyond the interface of space-time…”
    On what basis can you make this assertion except supposition?

    “It is not a collection of super villains controlling the world. It is a system that produces the super villains it needs to control the population over which it rules.”
    These two sentences say the same thing.

    ” If Klaus Schwab did not exist, the system would simply invent him.”
    Klaus Schwab as in “Klaus Schwab” didn’t exist, so the system invented him.

    What you seem to be driving at is that the mind/emotion creates models to account for what the intellect thinks/perceives. Is this saying something? You have no Archimedian point on which to stand to validate or invalidate the assertion that the system is separate or not separate from its actors.

    And how, for example, can one affirm or refute the statement “nature will take its course” except to wait and see, presuming there’s a “nature” and a “course” for nature to take?

  37. OrangeFrog

    If you don’t mind, I would like to add to your post (which is quite good), and say I think one could add psychotic and sociopath to the descriptions of the “elites” in the Deep State.

    Ergo, the Sociopathy and Psychopathy translate into incompetence and stupidity.

    • Annnd… the post above was supposed to be below Glens/Frogs post below.

  38. I guess there’s no “Military / Industrial Complex” either. Maybe we can get our four billion back?

  39. I guess it is not an either…or.

    When you see many actors going in the same direction can be conspiracy or ideology.

    There is a great deal of ideology in the managerial elite. It is the political correct religion. They follow the herd, either because they follow their acquaintances or because they follow the leaders that they watch on TV or read on the New York Times.

    This is especially true in the lower ranks of the managerial elite: civil servants, clerks, professionals (such as lawyers), etc.

    But there is somebody who has to set the direction the herd is going to follow. Political correctness is not a traditional religion, where the dogmas and the doctrine are established and believers know what to do even if they are not reminded by the priest or the imam.

    When Russia invaded Ukraine, somebody decided that we were on team Ukraine. But we could have been on team Russia, too. Imagine Putin was a servant of the global finance and Zelensky was a nationalist that wanted economic autonomy for his country. Then, we would have been drown in anti-Ukraine propaganda (Azov battalion is Nazi! Zelensky is a clown and forbids democratic opposition! Ukraine is genociding Donbas people!).

    Instead, somebody decided that were on team Ukraine. This was not a public vote or debate of the entire managerial elite. Somebody gave the order. We were on team Ukraine from the very beginning.

    I see the managerial elite and the global finance elite (which mix at the higher levels) as a network. There is not a clear hierarchy like in ancient monarchies but there are nodes that there are more important. They talk to each other and they set the tone.

    The same way, computer companies are not made equal. If Google, Microsoft, Dell, Apple, Facebook and Twitter agree on something, everybody has to follow. I see modern power in the same way. There are some powerful nodes in the network that they talk to each other and decide how the world should go. Then the other people follow like a herd.

    So it is a conspiracy at the highest ranks and an ideology at the lower ranks. We only see the ideology and not the conspiracy behind the scenes.

      • It has happened to me as well recently. I composed a post this morning that went into moderation inexplicably, as there were none of the traditional “triggers” in said post. After receiving notification, I copied the post to the clipboard, as it took a little time and effort to compose it, and I would like another bite at the apple should it not clear moderation the first time. No, it does not make sense along the usual explanatory framework.

  40. One major advantage of e-books: they allow you to carry a mini-library on a single device. So it’s not without some convenience. That said, actual paper books remain superior to anything that electronics can do.

    After much deliberation over these matters, I believe that Zman is right that there exists no literal deep state. My own long-time suspicion is that bankers run everything. It’s the Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules. I suppose we could label the top bankers a “deep state” of sorts, though that wouldn’t add much clarity to these issues. It seems pretty obvious that politicians are mere puppets representing the interests of those who place themselves well beyond the reach of common people. How much pull organizations such as the World Economic Forum actually have remains an open question. And even members of the WEF likely don’t know the answer.

    • I like books as well, but what I read is not popular and often must be ordered from publisher stock as it’s not carried in traditional stores. The time delay is not acceptable. I have been forced to create a virtual library. I find the book in electronic form and I download it. Cheaper and faster.

      There is convenience in having a library on my IPad, but many (academic) books I read are not currently in print, so one has to go online to find the original source. In the case of journal articles, with those journals that insist on charging for subscriptions, one often can find the published paper on the author’s website for free, but always only in electronic format. Then of course there is current fast moving information, such as with Covid research, where research articles can only be found in preprint online.

    • Sheila Bair headed the FDIC and wrote an interesting book after her term ended. I read it on an e-book and loved the quotes and references she included. One click took you to the original source – can’t do that with a paper book. Also better in dim light and obtaining a book minutes after deciding you want to read it. Also intend to bequeath it to a nephew when I croak. I had so many paper books I ordered titles I knew I already had because I couldn’t find them in the multitude of boxes in the garage.

  41. The best way I’ve come up with to think about space time is that eventually one makes the other irrelevant.

  42. The idea of “deep state” was first concocted to explain the workings of the Turkish state, which was apparently controlled by a cabal of military and intelligence operatives. Then the notion was taken up by the likes of Peter Dale Scott and transplanted to the US setting and the setting of the global US empire. Until around six or seven years ago people like myself were using the term in this context — i.e. the tightly interwoven interests of Wall Street, the military-industrial complex, the intelligence agencies, and the emerging mass media cartel (effectively six large corporations). Then around six years ago the notion of “deep state” went viral, to the extent that I became reluctant to use the term as it had effectively become a ‘floating signifier’ by people who knew nothing of the provenance or detailed and complex reality behind the term.

    Does the deep state exist? Let’s rephrase the question: Is there a loose and evolving consensus by various elements of the US power establishment about various issues such as Ukraine, containing China and Russia, and the Covid ‘pandemic’? If you can buy into the latter, surely you can buy into the former?

    • This is where I am at as well. Zman distinguishes between the managerial state and the deep state, but to me they were always the same concept. Unelected bureaucrats, billionaires and the media complex moving in sync to various religious doctrines, using politicians as their sock puppets. I guess the fact that we know who most of them are removes the “deep” shadowy image. They have also been more brazen about operating in the open once demographic replacement and election rigging took hold, guaranteeing them permanent power and control.

      • I view the managerial class as “the help,” and the Deep State as the oligarchs they serve. As I mentioned elsewhere, there is some overlap, such as in the case of Fauci who moves from the private sector to government and back to benefit himself and his friends.

    • Arshad Ali: Well put. I was the sort who dismissed all of the standard conspiracy theories. But the past few years have increasingly proven far too many ‘kooky’ theories to be true . . . or proven the actual truth to be kookier than the conspiracy theory.

      No, I don’t really go on about Bohemian Grove, but just as in doing genealogy, I notice certain names turning up over and over again. And then even a little bit of digging turns up that ‘x’ is related to ‘y’ or both x and y had ‘z’ as a mentor. While the term ‘deep state’ may mean many things to many people, what Zman appears to be dismissing as the product of limited understanding and/or superstition, I consider to be the proven amalgamation you listed –
      Wall Street, the military-industrial complex, the intelligence agencies, and the emerging mass media. Add in the long term bureaucrats (who had ever heard of Fauci prior to 2020?) and, of course, bankers and international financiers.

      And then learn who went to school with whom, who married whom, who turns up together with whom at which conference during which disaster ‘simulation’ is run, and it all fits. Perhaps too neatly at times, and of course correlation does not equal causation, but I see far too many coincidences and statistical improbabilities to ignore or dismiss.

      • Thee was an essay published in the book, “Power in Economics”, which was published around fifty years ago, which looks at the family connections in the British power establishment. Family, school (Eton, Harrow, Winchester), and club determine the British power structure. The same in the USA, the same in France, probably the same in Japan. These are unaccountable structures of power. I’m not complaining. It’s what the 19th century Italian theorist Mosca called “the Iron Law of Oligarchy.” Oligarchy is the natural form of rule, but in the USA, Britain, France and elsewhere it’s camouflaged by the farce of elections. The ineffectiveness and impotence of Trump and the rigged election of a vegetable (Biden) should persuade even the sceptical on the iron hold of entrenched oligarchies

        • Yes, this. I have read some Scott but thanks for the links.

          I view the managerial elite as the help and the oligarchs as the Deep State. Falcone is correct that “deep” as in hidden no longer applies, but the other definition, which is basically burrowed far in, still applies.

          What is new, or newish, is the transnational nature of the oligarchs. It makes them particularly dangerous since they owe no allegiance to the dirt below their feet and are just as at home in Burgundy as in Napa.

        • There is a cute movie from 1970 starring Glen Ford:

          “The Brotherhood of The Bell”. Glenn Ford joins a secret society in college (title) and thinks nothing of it until one day he receives a mysterious phone call (IIRC) where he is asked to do something for a “Brother”. Ford doesn’t even remember the “Brotherhood” and must be reminded harshly (?) that he owes his current “success” to mysterious behind the scenes promotion of his “Brothers”

          I never thought of the movie until I began to hear of any number of famous neocons who were “Yalies” and who were known members of the secret (not so much anymore) organization “Skull & Bones”. Interesting that such a limited organization has so many famous graduates.

          • Yeah, I saw that film on television in the late ’70s. It’s one of my favorite films from that era (the other is “The Parallax View”, with Warren Beatty). It was an era when the US ruling class allowed some criticism of itself and some revealing and disturbing insights in that criticism. I also like the books of Richard Condon and the novels of James Ellroy. I suppose that makes me a “conspiracy theorist”, to which i must perforce plead guilty as charged.

          • “Skull and Bones” is part of the, er, “deep state.” You might like to watch the film “W”, where there’s a snippet on GWB being inducted into S&B.

          • Good film.

            There is a difference, and maybe not that great of one, between nepotism/social networking and forming a caste that exerts basic control over a society. That’s been done before, obviously, but as I mentioned earlier the transnational nature of the Deep State is different.

            Since W and John Kerry were in Skull and Bones, it is pretty obvious the group did not select on intellect or any other form of merit.

      • This is something that Murray Rothbard thoroughly documented. In particular he did the exercise for the actors at the outset of the Progressive era.

        It is a cult with multiple feeder/breeding organizations and then multiple transformation projects for the cult members to work on and enrich themselves with.

        The cult falls apart when it runs out of other people’s money. Essentially, Progressivism is facism, which is one of the two siblings of Mother Socialism. It has a mechanism to make the other people in the other people’s money people in the future. That ability is reaching its expiration date. The Cult is off at Burning Man and the gender reassignment counselor and trying to drag everyone else along with it. If only them executing the final directive did the hard part for us instead of it being designed to take everyone down with them.

  43. “The ads for food made from bugs make a lot more sense when you imagine a secret cabal plotting to kill off farming to please Gaia.”
    It’s all out in the open.
    Everything’s a psyop.

  44. I think people are evolving their opinions

    A few years ago it seemed impossible to imagine or fathom the magnitude of the problem, so it came more readily that all the weird things happening must be because of sinister shadowy forces in the background manipulating things and pulling strings.

    But now we can see things more clearly and that it really is less of a sinister group than it is that all the elites belong to some weird cult. The cultish aspects are finally revealing themselves. But doesn’t every cult has a spiritual leader? Real or imagined?

    It’s kind of like fascism in cult form, where every major institution has a part to play. The academe provides the spiritual guidance into the cult’s ways, so the leading professors are the high priests. The media spreads the message. The corporations act on the message. The government enforces the message. One big self-sustaining loop. Until the money runs out.

    seemed like it was being orchestrated by shadowy figures a few years ago is now more accurately seen

  45. ‘The World Economic Forum is a crackpot idea that appeals to the vanity of the managerial class…validation needed to turn the thing into Burning Man for the managerial elite’.
    While a clever insult to the WEF, those guys might take it as a compliment.

    • As much as I disagree with the premise of this piece, ” Burning Man for the managerial elite” is a brilliant line.

  46. “Of course, we all know that there is no such thing as a deep state but it is not hard to see why people are open to it….”


    Hunter Biden’s cell phone apparently just got hacked, and is more damning than his laptop was. And he won’t face a minute of jail time. Am I to believe that Epstein committed suicide? Ghislane is riding out her jail time in the poshest prison possible – when other pedos are tossed in to the general population to be torn apart by the other inmates.

    In point of fact, at least 50% of the managerial class would love nothing better than to stab their boss in the back and take his place. The Republicans should be going apechit with all the dirt they have on Democrat cloud people. 20~30 years ago they would have torn the donks to shreds over it. The managerial class itself would have done it.

    If there is no deep state… then some unknown force is working on the managerial class to force them into submission. Sorry Z, this is why these guys do their business behind closed doors, become multimillionaires when they don’t have the brains to push a mop, and are running around free when others would go to jail.

    • If you want to imagine the deep state as some nefarious group meeting in a sort of Masonic hall wearing ancient robes and citing liberal incantations then yes, it doesn’t exist. Remember the word defacto? Well, it applies here. Just because cartoons like Klaus Schwab and Bill Gates exist doesn’t mean that embedded long term nefarious bureaucrats in the Fbi, State Department aren’t running things long after their liberal counterparts have vacated office.

      What’s next, no such thing as jewish influence and all it’s ramifications?

        • Bwahaha!

          “Who controls the British crown?
          Who keeps the metric system down?
          We do, we do
          Who keeps Atlantis off the maps?
          Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
          We do, we do
          Who holds back the elctric car?
          Who makes Steve Gutenberg a star?
          We do, we do
          Who robs gamefish of their site?
          Who rigs every Oscar night?
          We do, we do!”

          Probably all true. Except they ain’t holding back the EVs no more.

      • The best trick the devil has is convincing you he doesn’t exist, David.

        No, I am not saying the deep state runs like the stonecutters complete with goofy costumes snd satanic rituals (although there have been the odd documented cases of them doing it). I am saying there IS a secret society operating parallel to yours. It’s coordinated, it is policed and it protects itself. Just because you can’t see it, doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

    • Well said, Glen.

      I was considering writing my own reply, but you did my job for me… and better.

      After all, if you were Evil (most elites are) and you had enormous influence and you had friends who were the same; wouldn’t you push your agenda in secret/semi-secret? What is this if not deceitful maneuvering behind the scenes – a ‘Deep State/System’?

      But perhaps that’s the difference: I see the elites as pursuing purposive Evil; many others just see stupidity and incompetence.

    • There’s no mysterious force motivating these people; rather it’s the same force that’s been plaguing humanity for millennia: sin. There’s little secret about who is doing what and why. If it were a murder scene, there would be fingerprints and hair clumps galore. The people wrecking society from above are vicious and foolish, devoid of subtlety. They are consumed by their vices and children of their father, the devil (who parades about like a roaring lion). There is no mystery about who they are and what they want. There is no conspiracy, just vice. It truly is as simple and obvious as it appears: they are wholly owned by evil.

  47. Oh boy, OK I’ll try to tackle this.

    First, current cosmology posits that everything in the Universe began at a point prior to the Big Bang, and then all matter and energy began radiating outward from that point thereafter. This continuing movement from the point of origin outward is what is called “space-time.” IOW, where something is and when it is are both aspects of the same thing. It is movement along a pathway of a particular thing of interest. And since there is no such thing as a universal yardstick with which to measure this movement, we use an idealized frame of reference with conceptualized measurement tools (think of it as an imaginary box with arbitrary units of measure assigned to each axis). Now imagine that this box is moving along a cosmic pathway and every increment of movement is defined as a unit of time. Inside the box, it’s displacement measurement. Outside the box, it’s time measurement.

    Not sure is this helps, but it’s the best I can do.

        • There are actually many contending theories and speculations about the nature of space and time, and some serious physicists do in fact believe that those concepts will eventually be superseded by something deeper. The thing is though, I don’t think Z has any deep understanding of the question. I think he’s read a couple of popular science articles and seen a few videos, and now he thinks he understands spacetime well enough to make categorical statements about its epistemic status. (It’s doomed I tell you. Dooooomed!) This is the behavior of a high IQ bullshitter; which, frankly, is something I think we see a lot of from Z.

          For the curious, there are a zillion YouTube videos that discuss the nature of space and time, from fairly low to extremely high levels. Here’s a fairly straightforward one I ran across recently:

          There are plenty of more comprehensive videos out there, but this one isn’t too long, it comes from a respected physicist, and I don’t feel like searching YouTube for something better right now.

    • Space-time is real from an organism’s point of view

      Because organisms are related, they share a partial existence through time. My father and me are related, so the time and place when he was a boy is going to leave some kind of mark on me. What he felt are the same things I’m going to feel, just in another space and time. The scenery changes around us while we in a sense remain the same.

      Now that this may not be the sci-fi concept that Z had in mind, and honestly I don’t know what he’s referring to, but it’s real and a part of our existence. We are simply going to have thoughts, ideas, feelings, experiences, that we share with our kin. That same feeling of pleasure in feeling the wind in his hair for my relative 1000 years ago is the same feeling I have today. in some way for that split second in time we are the same person but in a different place and time, or we might as well be because the feeling of our being alive is identical and we are basically the same person for that moment.

      So I think there is a human type of space time. It’s part of sharing DNA.

      And it goes on and on forever perhaps. I mean an ant today was the same ant 1000 years ago. Did the ant really change? Can anyone really say it is completely different and has a totally novel and new set of experiences? Did time really change for them? Does it matter? Humans are more complex, but not so much so that these same things wouldn’t apply. Time is like an ocean around us, not a linear continuum. And space is only a different part of the ocean. My sense is that this is how less complex animals sense the world around them, such as dogs or horses, they carry with them a deeper sense of their ancestors as expressed through their instinctive behavior.

      • it’s not ‘space-time’ it’s ‘spacetime’, a single word and concept. you can read about it on wikipedia, although i didn’t find their description particularly helpful. but at least you will learn roughly where it fits into the scheme of things 🙂

        • I doubt wiki would help me understand it. I still can’t wrap my head around the Big Bang.

          So I work in the world I know and comprehend, and that is the human perception of time and space. And in that sense we are one big blob that spans the years and makes everything one. And so time and space are not completely and utterly detached from person to person.

          If the blink of God’s eye equates to 100 years of our time, then a newborn suckling his mother in 1922 is happening at the same time as another little guy in 2022. So as long as time is seen as as something of human perception, and not merely clock time, then the concept of space and time starts to collapse on itself.

          And we know that time is largely perception. At least where it matters, in terms of us relating to the world around us. 15 minutes staring at a pot on the stove waiting for water to boil is different than the 15 minutes anxiously waiting in line to board a huge rollercoaster, but the clock says they’re the same. A 25 year old told he has one year to live, every hour and every day means something different than the 25 year old planning for his retirement in 45 years. Etc etc

          But many of the people here are beyond me in their scientific prowess and understanding and reading into things like spacetime. I’m like bill Buckley back in the day wanting to tell the world to stop. There are more ways to look at space and time than the scientific way. He he.

          • Don’t beat yourself up. The guys with the 25 pound brains are nearly as clueless as you or I are, the only difference is some of them are equipped for more meaningful meandering in these fields. Getting the concept is usually most important and usually someone chimes in with some good sources.

  48. There are too many of them; their brains are over active, there is nothing real for them to do; most of them really can do nothing “real”.

    Intellectual overburden.

  49. Deep State doesn’t exist? Maybe we’ve a definitional discrepancy.
    If institutions like Davos, WEC, G7, Builderberg, among many others do indeed exist and similar “leaders” attend these forums, isn’t that a deep worldwide state (institutionalized coordination)?
    The Catholic Church recognized this 300 years ago where 150 years ago HUMANUM GENUS laid it out succinctly. This attack on Roman Catholicism was not solely aimed at the Catholic Church, but more fully on Christain institutions worldwide. Is not what we are seeing now the final inning?

    • Well, the Deep State probably doesn’t exist in a formal sense, like the Rotary Club or something like that.

      But it makes a convenient short-hand for what would probably be better described as “emergent behavior”. That is, there’s no evil genius behind the curtain, this is just how large, dysfunctional organizations with too much power and money act.

      • There is Yarval Harari – who may / may not be a genius, but he is evil.

      • > Well, the Deep State probably doesn’t exist in a formal sense, like the Rotary Club or something like that.

        If it existed in a formal sense it wouldn’t be called “deep state”, but rather merely, “state”. Duh.

    • that’s what i think; there is a semantic issue here. the managerial class (concept) seems like an analog of the deep state (concept). in practice zman, how is the managerial state any different than the deep state? either way voting is non-effective.

    • I think the point is is that if everyone can now see the deep state, it’s no longer deep. It’s out in the open, and something can’t be both shadowy and obvious at the same time.

      It’s not so much a deep state anymore than it is a bunch of brainwashed idiots trying to implement a master plan that was years in the making and now in the implementation phase to where theory meets humanity and you get the kind of keystone cops stuff because humans are humans and they are prone to screw up even the best laid plans.

      I’m thankful the elites jumped in bed with black people. They actually thought they’d be perfect pawns in their game. How stupid could they have been. But I’ll take it.

  50. There’s probably no stronger dichotomy in visions of man than Klaus Schwab and Elon Musk. One can argue that Musk is a grifter playing off the fantasies of the managerial class, and you’re probably right, but that doesn’t diminish that they have very different visions of humanity’s future.

    Musk dreams of a world where people colonize the Moon, Mars, Asteroids, and beyond, creating infrastructure in space capable of massive expeditions and technologies that will fuse the Human Mind with the processing power of machines to be able to do enormous tasks far easier, and eventually biohacking people to allow them to live very long spans and leave our home planet.

    Schwab wants a world where all the plebs are equal, they eat the bugs, they live in their pods, and they reproduce based on the whims of the upper crusts of society. They will take their mandatory vaccine and spend all their free time in a VR headset playing cartoonish games. There’s no grand future for humanity, no aspirations for greatness, but just a hive of Last Men who scurry the world like ants until they perish.

    Not a fan of either of their ideas, but at least Elon is not explicitly anti-human. Schwab and the system that made him is the quintessential technocrat with high IQ but spiritual deadness.

    • Most of the people in Klaus Schwab’s class are true believers that man is destroying the planet. Their solution is to slightly raise the standard of living in the third world and grind down the middle and working classes in the developed world to the level of peasants. The elites will make no sacrifices in this arrangement at all. There is certainly coordination across governments although it is not as organized as most people think. They are working towards the same ends but don’t have some master plan.

      • Yes, that’s always been the goal of globalization and equality. Like water seeking its’ own level, wages and living conditions between the West and the Third World would flatten out and equalize. Not for the elites of course.

    • Musk grew up in South Africa and he isn’t an idiot. I suspect there’s more to his Mars obsession than simply an interest in space flight.

      Perhaps he’s thinking of Mars as that exit where the buses don’t run.

      Especially when he keeps commenting on Earth civilization being on shaky ground.

      • The problem with that theory is that he has gone out of his way to trash the white government of South Africa he grew up under. He goes way beyond mealy mouthed denunciations in order to stay in the good graces of the global elite. I don’t think that is it.

        • These days, everyone who wants to keep their job denounces the South African white government if the subject comes up. Including me.

          I don’t listen to what people say. I watch what they do.

    • All we ever wanted was to be left alone. Elon Musk is certainly a moral giant compared to the verminous Klaus Schwab. However, we should never forget that he is a foreigner. He came into our country to play the corruption game in our system for his own ends. That his ends are to some degree not odious does not make him American.

      The system that Musk learned to play so well is a mutilated hybrid of the competing visions of civilizational mission of cloud and dirt. I would rather see the OUR resources expended on space exploration than on welfare for parasitic invaders. However, I’d rather it be spent now on expelling the invaders, holding the traitors to account, and putting civilization back onto a firm foundation and leave space exploration for future generations. Nothing built on quicksand is going to last.

    • This is interesting. You may have cracked open the nut. By describing the two men’s differences, you described their similarity. In doing so, it may help in getting at the deep state.

      What is in common for these men is their vision for all of mankind. They have decided what it is going to be without consulting anybody. Hordes of Last Men, rather boys who were never formed as men in the case of Musk, and women in the case of Schwab jump on board. But these are not founding visions seen in past civilizations.

      To found Athens, Rome, America, Carolingia, England … you needed a wide ranging consensus from top to bottom of the heirarchy. Z-Man discusses one good example in the reform of Athens – moving from farming grains to olives and organizing the merchant marines. You can’t do that project with one front man and a bunch of printed money. You need too many people to make it happen. It can’t happen with PR campaigns and the US government’s printing press. It takes THE WILL OF MEN and genuine consensus to do these projects.

      I disagree that Musk has some grand vision. I think Z-Man’s description is better. In fact, Palmer Luckey recently said, more or less, “Yeah. Elon Musk seems to have a great ability to identify a business that is going to get massive government subsidies and favorable regulations and build his business there.” It was spoken in the context of Alex Epstein, Peter Theil and Luckey pondering if Musk would ever debate Epstein on energy. I took that as a good sign that perhaps some other oligarchs, peers even, are speaking openly about the truth of Musk. For Musk is compromised and his grifts stand between us, reform and true greatness.

      Back to my point. I think the Deep State is real. It is centralized. It is the Central Bank. The printing press funds it all and thus enables it. It funds and enables Davos, Musk, Bezos, the federal bureaucracy … All of it. There are also a few key projects they have been bent upon for decades. That isn’t an accident. I think the CAGW grift is a stealth tax and expropriation regime to turn the middle class in the West into serfs. The bankers lent too much money, off-shored our wealth creation, but they want their money back. And via carbon taxes, outlawing of ownership of the assets (while they scoop in and buy them for pennies on the dollar – oil; minerals and metals … …).

      In any case. This is a great article. Somewhere, in space and time real people are planning and implementing real policies that are working for them, but not for us. Our job is to find some people who are gifted and intelligent enough to embark on projects that summon the will of men by proposing endeavors that bind us together because the benefits to all are clear and obvious. This clown car of individual vanity projects and self aggrandizing visions paid for by everyone else has brought us to this very real three ringed circus hell.

      Either we declare that vision and provide that will and those elites rally to us, or they declare it and we rally to them. Either way we all provide the will. I propose we focus on energy – specifically nuclear energy. How do we uplift Kirk Sorensen and the Thorium/LMS nuclear energy community? Bring them together with our fossil fuel industry and then get entrepreneurs to build factories here because the energy is here. Take away Musk’s subsidies. Incentivize capital away from consumer tech and into production tech and advanced, distributed power generation that fuels production in the homeland.

      • “… Palmer Luckey recently said, more or less, “Yeah. Elon Musk seems to have a great ability to identify a business that is going to get massive government subsidies and favorable regulations and build his business there.”…”

        What annoys me is the complete lack of any sort of facts behind these attacks on Musk. Whether you like him or not we have received real value from what Musk has done. Far beyond what he was paid.(I’ve noticed my spellchecker even hates Musk. It used to correct when I hit the wrong key. Now his name doesn’t even come up in the correct spelling list).

        I happen to know the exact story behind the subsidies that Musk received. Way back in Bush Sr.’s Presidency, a group called the Citizen’s Space Advisory Council got together to find a way to get space transportation going. They came up with the pony express and the early air mail model where the government paid people for capabilities to orbit and Congress passed a law to fund it. Well it worked. Before Musk we did not have the capability to get our astronauts to the space station. We had to rely on Russia at huge cost. I think it was $60 million an astronaut. Musk will give us a whole rocket loads full for that. *I notice all the people that are constantly calling Musk a grifter, he’s not we get something that we paid for, never say a damn word about the over $30 billion given to Boeing and Lockheed to build a space rocket system of which they have launched…nothing. Not a damn thing. The law that Musk used to get subsidized was passed way, way before he had anything to do with rockets. It was passed a long time ago by Congress to spur space transportation in the private sector because NASA and their traditional partners appeared to not be capable of doing so and they still aren’t at a reasonable cost.

        Same with electric cars. GM is the company that lobbied for electric car subsidies, not Musk.

        My opinion is and has been that the things he is doing are in my interest and until he does different, I will support him and anyone else doing things in my interest.

  51. When all of a sudden, every chattering skull on television is chanting “keev” you cannot help but think it is scripted

    Because it was?

    Its possible that all the chattering empty skulls jumped on the keev bandwagon as some kind of organic emergent phenomenon. But the Ukraine flag pins that they all started wearing simultaneously did not just spring into existence ex nihilo. They are the end result of a supply chain, manufacturing and distribution. IE some planning was required. Punctuated by the fact that they appeared at once. And were all the same.

    Thats the tel. The same way that you can protest is legitimately grass roots or astro turf is by the signs and messaging. Grass roots movements have discordant messaging and home made signs. Astro turfed – planned movements have unified messaging and professionally printed signs.

    You could even see that with Ukraine war fever. The propagandists had unified messaging and commercially produced visual aids. The useful idiots have discordant messaging and home made signs.

  52. I guess one of the big questions, or maybe the big question is whether or not the “deep state” or the administrative state or whoever can pull it off. Can they actually force the comprehensive shelving of fossil fuels (other than for themselves of course) and normal farm production of everyday food for the world’s population? Can they actually force everyone into their fantastical paradigm with no massive blowback?

    It’s hard to believe TPTB can pull it off. Maybe all these seemingly unrelated events are simply coincidence, but when looked at together, it all appears pretty damn shady. Here’s hoping more people wake the heck up soon. The way things are going, even using old fashioned horses and mules for transportation, let alone burning wood for light and heat, would be outlawed.

    • uNt-

      I can’t figure out how these people honestly believe they can support the modern industrial society required to fight a two front world war without using any fossil fuels.

      I mean, if one watches the flight trackers, they’re certainly burning up quite a bit of avgas flying troops and material to Europe for a late summer/early fall offensive.

      • Wild Geese, to be fair, I doubt that the leaders and Clouds really give two hoots if they can pull it off… except for themselves, of course. This is their Evil on full display: they’ll talk a good game, but in the end we’ll suffer; and they likely won’t.

        Look at it this way: I must be forced to ditch my IC car, buy an overpriced, limited range EV, and use far less electricity so that Mr. Prime Minister can score a point at ‘Green Bingo’: he can then brag to other countries about ‘How Green we are!’… he won’t give a damn about the meddling and suffering caused by it all.

        That said, I am beginning to see the coming hardship as a good thing? I mean, why should we have it so easy? Why must people be kept in their bubble of belief that we’ll always have a functioning first world country. Of course, the suffering is only good if it brings realization… an ‘awakening’ of sorts; and there is a chance that most will still double-down on Their Love for The System.

        • If action follows the awakening, yes, the suffering will prove a tremendous thing. I honestly think the first Cloud will be assassinated this year. It most likely will be an inside job: poisoned food, a jet intentionally brought down, something of that nature. If that happens, and I think it will be something along those lines, the response of the managerial state to the death will be the thing to watch.

          • I suspect most oligarchs have way better security than politicians. When they go after oligarchs (through proxies or directly) they go after their kids like they did w/ Hearst and Rockefeller.

        • Uh, the neocon (wars for the sake of power) and neolib (alleged humanitarian wars) segments of the Cloud People definitely care about waging and winning a major war.

        • Then why is the regime actively selling off the SPR to Europe and China?

          I mean, it is possible they are playing 5-D chess and they have some super duper double classified above top secret petroleum supply, but I put that around a 0.001% chance of being true.

    • I would say based on what is happening in Singapore with the results of forcing organic farming on them, the answer is no. For this will also impoverish a lot of elites. I think eventually some elites feel the pain and move against the crazies.

      Holland is an interesting case though. Will the city people realize that they are next, or are they too far gone on their college degreed boat trips into oblivion.

      • Singapore? Maybe I missed something there or did you mean Sri Lanka?

        The New Atlas on YouTube did a pretty good analysis of how Sri Lanka’s financial situation imploded.

        Spoiler alert – it’s all due to the usual suspects like the IMF and Blackrock.

  53. Yesterday’s conspiracy theories are today’s reality. So today’s conspiracy theories feel like movie spoilers.

    I remember hearing Jesse Ventura and Alex Jones decades ago ranting about fake epidemics and mandated vaccines that make you sick being used to control us. Well, here we are. Same with mass immigration, money printing, war for profit, media control, election rigging…

    • Honestly, the events of 9/11 was a larger catalyst than most people realize. The incident happened at the dawn of when the internet was accessible to average Joes, which enabled the theories to spread like wildfire. There were so many odd happenings and coincidences that it’s hard to agree with the official narrative. It also was huge and cataclysmic enough to keep people’s attention for a long time. One doesn’t have to go complete “9/11 was a complete inside job” to ascertain something big was covered up, it’s just a matter of how deep the rabbit hole leads.

      Another classic was the OKC bombing, but the media was entrenched enough then to keep it from getting traction. Now you have people who just nod along with what was considered tin-foil level and unpatriotic ten years ago.

      • What followed 9-11 was The Patriot Act. Almost like it was all planned out or something, but no, that’s crazy talk.

        • Wasn’t the Patriot Act the bill Pelosi insisted, “…must be passed before we can know what’s in it?”

          A 2000 page long bill that was just sitting there on a shelf collecting dust, ready to go in response to a terrorist attack.

          Totally coincidental, I’m sure.

        • I believe that law was written long before it was passed. There was also the PNAC (Project for a New American Century), declaration of which all of the Bush junta and neo-cons were signatories and authors.

          That document effectively said, “Now that the Cold War is over, how do we get Boobus Americanus to accept increasing military budgets so we can create a global hegemonic empire that has full spectrum dominance for a century or more?”

          They concluded that it would take a Pearl Harbor like event to spook, enrage the American public into supporting it without knowing what they were supporting. I think it was published in ’96.

      • I and many of my friends were in ‘defense’ in one capacity or another, government or contractor. ALL of us got warnings about Israeli art students. We had an American glasnost for 2-4 weeks after 9/11, the shock of which had paralyzed the organs of censorship. Remember Carl Cameron’s Fox News series? Down the memory hole …

        There was a lot going on and I’m sure that most of it escaped my notice. I don’t know the truth, but I do know that whatever globohomo corporate media wants me to believe is lies.

        • I began my long wandering in the MIC at the beginning of January 2002.

          Between the response to 9/11 and the release of the film Blackhawk Down, which the execs had sent the entire company to see, the atmosphere could only be described as, “tumescent.”

    • I’m astonished how open these conspirators are about their plans. We hear about “The Great Reset”, which includes eating the bugs, living in a pod, and “you will own nothing and be happy,” and there’s an actual book Klaus Schwab wrote where he explains it. It was also the cover story of Time magazine, November 2020.

      Then we see BlackRock buying up entire neighborhoods, driving the price of housing up past where normal folks can afford to buy, but I’m sure it’s just a coincidence and nothing to do with “you will own nothing.”

      We’re at the point now where everything’s out in the open, including that one group (1.8 percent of the population) that is vastly overrepresented in finance, entertainment, news, Biden’s administration, etc, although I’m sure it’s no big deal and just a coincidence.

      Who’s more accurate, the Conspiracy Theorists or the Coincidence Theorists?

      • “I’m astonished how open these conspirators are about their plans.”

        You’re right. The Deep State may more correctly be called the Shallow State seeing that it’s machinations often lie in plain sight.

        Plus ‘Shallow’ is a far more apt term for the peddlers of all this garbage than ‘Deep’.

      • “Who’s more accurate, the Conspiracy Theorists or the Coincidence Theorists?” It’s becoming more and more like the Men in Black scene where they go to the supermarket to read the tabloids for the real news.

  54. I’m not sure how to approach this. It may be the case that you and I define “Deep State” differently. I shy away from the idea that there exists an Oz-like character or characters directing events from behind the curtain, but I do believe there are entrenched figures more powerful than our elected officials, who pass the baton to each other without detection.

    It’s like referring to the Corona Hoax. Very few people dispute the existence of the virus and that it’s been responsible for some not insignificant number of deaths, but the response was so disproportionate to the risk that reasonable people can safely conclude that there was a concerted effort to pull the wool over the eyes of the general public and refer to it as a “hoax”.

    • We don’t even have to go that far even though everything you wrote is true.

      Here’s absolute proof the Deep State not only exists but is the only thing that matters in the American system: Joe Biden. You literally have to have as little sentience as he does to believe Biden decides a single thing or effects policy and administration in any manner. An argument could be made that he is a puppet of the managerial state, but it would fail because he exercises absolutely no control over it, even the parts where he has the authority to do so. The managerial state serves a different master.

      This is too silly to waste time on, frankly.

      • Joe Biden’s ascendance in 2020 was itself the result of a conspiracy.

        The guy was sinking in the early primaries. The more voters saw him the more they were revolted and chose anyone else.

        Then the magic Negro in SC endorsed him.
        And all his opponents that had been kicking his ass pulled out in short order. Because reasons. Shut up.

        • Well said. Biden was dismissed in previous primaries because of his many negatives (plagiarism, corruption etc.) Then the inner party chose him and the person who dropped out in the first primary round due to unpopularity and here we are! Blame the “D” party. They’re the ones who kept changing the rules to keep trending candidates out of primary debates. Of course it was a conspiracy.

    • IMO the deep state is just a phrase to describe the permanent bureaucracy and their media – academic partners.

      All of those entities clearly exist. They all act symbiotically, reinforcing each other intellectually and financially.

      They are also highly resistant to outside influence. The independence and intransigence of the permanent bureaucracy has been noted for many decades – really going on a century. Truman commented on it in the 1940s. Academia is likewise an insulated community fully funded by the government in a variety of opaque ways. The media has become dependent of the government and wealthy patrons with an interest in the government due to the collapse of their advertising business model.

      The CoVid hysteria was driven entirely by that deep state. Academia provided specious justification and the media provided hysteria for a power grab by the bureaucracy. The elected politicians most went along and were celebrated for doing so. The few that bucked the system were attacked and mocked – even as they were proven correct and publicly supported.

      • Dr. Anthony Fauci has moved from the private sector to government and back I don’t know how many times, enriching himself along the way and controlling not only public health policy but who receives the money to justify what he wants to implement for himself and his friends.
        Yes, I know he has been sidelined because he is now a political liability, but only because he agreed to a lower profile.

        The only semantic problem with calling Fauci “Deep State” is that he is one of the oligarchs it serves, albeit a lesser one.

      • The deep state doesn’t require obvious leadership, which would be a weakness. Rather it operates like a humungous termite nest where all the members play their role anonymously except to their closest associates. A minor figure in the US Department of Agriculture knows nothing of a receptionist at the Health Administration of Cameroon but the two share a world view and duty.

  55. “Just as the reality of the universe lies beyond the interface of space-time, the reality of the managerial state lies beyond the deep state. It is not a collection of super villains controlling the world. It is a system that produces the super villains it needs to control the population over which it rules.”

    Wow. Where to start?

    I wanted to be generous and think this was a matter of semantics until the paragraph quoted above. “Deep State” is a term borrowed from the Ottomans and describes a permanent bureaucracy that serves both the State and the oligarchs to which it is beholden. No, the managerial state does not lie beyond the Deep State, but serves it.

    The extrajudicial and unchecked behavior from federal law enforcement agents, for example, are not beyond the Deep State but subservient to it. So a quick thought experiment: who wields more actual power, Nancy Pelosi or Klaus Shwab? If Pelosi ordered the FBI to arrest Shwab, and he in turn ordered them to destroy her, which would be the most likely to happen?

    There are conspiracy theories and there are conspiracy facts. Given all that has risen to the surface in recent years, it isn’t hard to discern which is which. The Deep State is a conspiracy fact, and its existence is why we spend so much time mulling the futility of democracy.

    It is hard to think you believe otherwise. I don’t think I will invest much time debating or discussing this one.

  56. Of course, we all know that there is no such thing as a deep state…

    The greatest trick the deep state ever pulled was convincing people it doesn’t exist.

    • Seriously! I mean anyone that looks at history, which we know zman does, knows that history is pretty much propelled for forward one conspiracy after another. But the people are definitely primed to say anyone that says conspiracy is crazy. My Arch liberal sister, she’ll pull that and then I’ll just say “MK ultra!” because she knows it was real. It gives her pause but she forgets almost immediately. It’s really something to see

      • Its really something to behold.

        I have several old – new lefties in my immediate family.

        You know the type – anti Vietnam war protestors in their youth. Moved on to beleiving the CiA and other IC agencies were pulling strings behind the scenes to push war for corporations (they were pretty dodgy on how war benefitted coca cola or whatever though). Soft on communism.

        Anyway, these people are now the biggest CoVidians I know. Theyre also convinced that Trump is the leader of a fascist movement that threatens “our democracy”. And that the sainted CIA and FBI are justified in doing anything to stop him.

        Its completely nuts the way they’ve flipped 180 degrees. Especially when theres clear evidence that they were correct about a lot of the crazy stuff they believed decades ago.

        • It seems to be we’re all just living in parallel worlds now. I started reading this blog the other day, it’s some military guy that wrote it, and it’s just the opposite of everything I think is true. It was like it is a different world in the multiverse. I checked out another couple entries and he had one on vaccine injuries. And it appears he has one though he won’t admit it he got temporarily paralyzed (!) after vaccine but he doesn’t think it’s related. Almost the entire comment section was proud of being vaccinated and about half of them had injuries they said we’re just coincidence. It’s just two different worlds

          • These types believe what they are told to believe. They are not inconsistent in their minds because objective reality doesn’t exist, only The Current Thing and the approved opinion about it. Yes, it’s sort of post-modernism but there is a psychological element that we do not really understand, although it would be beneficial if we did.

          • I think for some (many, most?) the psychological angle is a certain comfort that this is both intentional or directed to some purpose. To accept Pfizer knew what it was doing, harm was certain to result and efficacy was minimal to nonexistent is to accept that forces are arrayed against you that intend you harm with little to no ability to prevent it.

          • Whitney, I used to read that blog daily. Its previous incarnation was as Sic Semper Tyrannis, and Patrick Lang was the owner. But after he and his wife, both fairly up in years, took the “vaccine” as he said as “good soldiers”, and both suffered cerebral hemorrhages, his being quite severe, things befan to change from the larfely paleocon/libertarian perspective. He came more under the sway of his fellow former special forces officer, TTG (self-denominated as The Twisted Genius), a virulently anti-Russian, and an American-Lithuanian [loyalty following the latter term of the dyad], and with the onset of the SMO in Ukraine, all of the former Paleocon/libertarian ideology seems to have been trashed. Shocking, given how his blog was a beacon if insight concerning the Russian tole in the Syrian conflict in the near past.

            I can no longer stand to visit turcopolier any longer.

            May I suggest to you to visit the blog run by Larry Johnson, former CIA analyst, and previously a poster at SST/Turcopolier?
            Son of the New American Revolution, that moniker deriving from the fact that he traces his roots to ancestors from the original Revolution.

          • JerseyJeffersonian

            I read Larry Johnson. It’s good. But of course I agree with it. I don’t know how I got linked to Lang’s site but I was reading it with my mouth agape

          • Larry Johnson has his blind spots. He is not a race realist, for example, and (actually to his credit) does not delete nonsense posts, or banish commenters as did Col. Lang. Rather, he allows for a certain bit of hurly burly in the comment stream, but simetimes people who indulge in ad hominems too often deserve to be brought up short. Guess that is up to the other commenters, though, so it’s consistent.

    • Pat Shannan, Editor

      “The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists. The American mind simply has not come to a realization of the evil which has been introduced into our midst. It rejects even the assumption that human creatures could espouse a philosophy which must ultimately destroy all that is good and decent.” — J. Edgar Hoover ~The Elks Magazine, August 1956


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