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Imagine you are suddenly thrust into a world where you and everyone else in this world has a unique religion. Everyone has their own moral code, and everyone has a unique way of demonstrating that moral code. There is a finite number of moral principles, so there can be a lot of overlap in this area. On the other hand, there is an unlimited number of ways to exercise your beliefs, so everyone can easily see the differences between themselves and the rest.
This would be a rather strange world, but it would also be an extremely dangerous world as soon as everyone figured out that some of the people had within their religion an extreme intolerance of other religions. Some people may have as a part of their religious practice the forced conversion of non-believers. Others may look at everyone as fair game as far as murder. Some could be cannibals. Quickly everyone would realize they are in an extremely dangerous world.
At the same time, some people would figure out that their moral code is pretty close to the code of some other people. They may have different practices, like feast days and which animals they sacrifice on those days, but when it comes to the important things they are on the same page. While these people may not want to change their practices, they will quickly see the benefit in cooperation and compromise. They can team up to defend themselves against the cannibals and killers.
While mutual defense is one reason to cooperate, another reason is to create a mechanism to identify those with whom they can cooperate and those who must either be avoided or defeated. You cannot get anything done if you are never sure if the guy coming down the road is harmless or dangerous. Quickly this new world would sort itself into tribes of people with similar moral codes cooperating with one another in order to avoid being prey to other people.
At this point, these loose associations for mutual defense will undergo a transformation in order to work. Some will fall into disarray and the members will be picked off by other groups through conversation or predation. Some groups will reorient themselves into a unified organization in order to convert the rest. Others will do the same in order to resist being converted by others. In other words, the world of individual religions will quickly give way to a world of group religion.
It is not an accident that this religious model follows the same pattern as urban street gangs in the last century. Organized crime was not just based on ethnicity. They relied on a moral code to hold them together. It was not enough to be Italian, Jewish, or Irish to be a gangster. You had to adhere to a way of life. The reason these people thought of their fellow gangsters as family is they shared the same moral code. It is also why they would kill one another. The code was bigger than men.
Morality in any human society tends toward monopoly. In our fictional world of individual religions, the first thing to happen is compromise for mutual benefit resulting in a consolidation of moral codes into moral tribes. Those tribes, if they could not physically separate to prevent conflict, would inevitably come into conflict until one tribe was able to dominate the other. Barring geographical barriers, in time this imaginary would have one moral code and one way to express it.
There is another thing going on here other than mutual protection. A moral code only works if you believe it is correct. This means you must think other moral codes are incorrect or you are leaving open the chance that your code is wrong. Intolerance of competing morale codes and religious expression is a requirement of faith, for no other reason than to reinforce your own faith. By definition, a moral code must be intolerant of other moral codes in order to remain a moral code.
At this point it is tempting to think this is wrong because in the real world you get along well with the Hindu guy across the street. You are not a Hindu, but you are fine with him being a Hindu and he seems to be fine with you being Jewish. In reality, the reason you two get along is you are both sublimating your religion to the moral code of American society which says you must accept different secondary religions. One part of your primary religion is pluralism, whether you know it or not.
It is also why the people in charge aggressively hunt down people who hold beliefs that they see as dangerous to their beliefs. They automatically view white nationalists, for example, as violent, because from their perspective, people with such contrary beliefs must be violent. The beliefs of the white nationalist are incompatible with the moral code of the new religion. As we saw in the example above, the inevitable consequence must be confrontation between the two camps.
This is what makes the present situation so dangerous. The moral code of people putting child molesters and crossdressers into the schools is incompatible with the moral code of parents. As we saw in our simple example, they must always see one another as hostile because there can be no compromise. There is no middle ground between those who think men should be allowed to mutilate children and those who think children must be protected from those men.
It is also what makes the new religion so aggressive. Much of what defines it is the belief that it must conquer the moral codes of other groups. To tolerate dissent is to question the one true faith. To aggressively stamp out dissent is a public act of piety that reinforces belief. Not only is peaceful coexistence not possible, but peaceful separation is also not acceptable to the new religion. In this clash between moral codes, the only question that matters is who will overcome whom?
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This calls for some Black Flag: Jealous cowards try to control Rise above! We’re gonna rise above! They distort what we say Rise above! We’re gonna rise above! Try and stop what we do Rise above! We’re gonna rise above! When they can’t do it themselves Rise above! We’re gonna rise above! [Chorus] We are tired of your abuse Try to stop us, it’s no use [Verse 2] Society’s arms of control Rise above! We’re gonna rise above! Think they’re smart, can’t think for themselves Rise above! We’re gonna rise above! Laugh at us behind our backs Rise above! We’re… Read more »
Superb post by Z. The inherent desire of the rulers to hunt down anyone who opposes their moral code du jour and the inherent desire of the right to be left alone is why the right will continue to lose in at least the near future. The tribe and their managerial minions want to win more than the normal right and they always view the ends as justifying the means while the right talks about muh constitution and how the Democrats just want to divide us. That will change someday but for the meantime we have to be satisfied with… Read more »
Sweet jeebus, this is good. I mean.
Zman, instead of West Virgina, maybe you could contemplate a new ambassadorial career between Hungary and Finland? Front Lines kind of stuff, filled with intrigue, danger, and romance.
Here:
https://miniszterelnok.hu/en/speech-by-prime-minister-viktor-orban-at-the-32nd-balvanyos-summer-free-university-and-student-camp/
From WRSA, Victor Orban’s speech in Romania Note the final paragraphs; directly related to “the key to defeating a moral imposition is to simply ignore them.” Also to be noted is the Zman’s warning that a negative identity, defining oneself by one’s enemies, is not sustainable; Thus I see the weakness, the flaw of Puritan Christianity: they must have a war on sin, on the Devil, and we must all be conscripted to it. “…whoever creates international institutions will thereby gain an advantage from them. So China has quite simply created its own: we see the BRICS and the One… Read more »
Who is doing any what they want to Whom, Whom pays for it and helpfully corrals the children for Who.
There’s nothing dangerous about Americans, at least White Americans, especially White American Parents.
It is dangerous to be an American child. Unsafe at any stage.
The actual WN and White ✝️ response is to watch Jesus Cazviel in The Sound of Freedom. Jesus Cazviel makes Holy Movies of Obligation, and by seeing it ✝️ Mommy did something, right?
I feel sorry for Anton. I think he knows the truth, or at least suspects, but his affiliations won’t tolerate a true dissident. It seems like he’s already on pretty thin ice with some of the West Coast Straussians for promoting Moldbug and BAP. The article was good, as far as it went. But it was all diagnosis and no prescription. That’s because proposing any solution that would actually work gets him canceled (to be fair, he did come out against birthright citizenship, and took heat for it). He’s become kind of a younger version of Victor Davis Hanson. Once,… Read more »
This was meant as a reply to usNthem, below.
Z is also much bigger on diagnosis than prescription.
It’s like a batchelor party.
The host, providing the house or venue, already has the status.
Always, a loyal lieutenant will volunteer, stepping in to make sure the girls have a room to change in, drinks are supplied, the music machine is working, azzholes are dealt with; running the practical background is his status, his provenance of worth.
In this case, the political organization would arise from loyal first mates who can see the heading being pointed out by the captain. They might get a ship of their own.
I think that this essay would work better as an instigator of hope through religion if it began as follows: IMAGINE that you are suddenly thrust into a world where you and every other person who has acquired the use of reason has a unique faith. Every such person has her or his own moral code, and everyone has a solitary way of demonstrating that moral code. There is a finite number of moral principles, so there can be a lot of overlap in this area. On the other hand, there is an unlimited number of ways to exercise your… Read more »
Have to say I don’t like the term “moral code” with regard to the National Crime Syndicate. I still believe most — or at least a plurality — of Jews/Italians/Irish didn’t approve of what the gangs were up to, but understood what it meant to object.
It is entertaining seeing the Left turn against Muslims because they hate LGBT. Unfortunately, it is cringeworthy seeing the Right portray the Muslims as a “based” non-White group who are just like us.
Muslims kill for Dignity.
Indeed we are different.
For a shabby, slovenly African mimicry of “dignity”: the ugly grandchildren of the nappy-headed kill their sister or you if they think you “disrespek” them for their obnoxious ways or repellent ‘in-your-face’ hostility.
These are not a refined people. They are a tightly repressed, simmering cauldron of hysterical emotion.
The further their genetics get away from Whiteness, the worse they are; even their glitzy baubles like Dubai are built on slavery and child sex slaves, and that includes a certain plucky little country.
The Muzz, in certain respects, are rather like we used to be.
I guess off topic, but Michael Anton who was mercilessly lambasted (and rightfully so) in his brouhaha with Z over the natural rights issue, has written a pretty good piece over at compact mag.com. I’d say it’s mostly spot on.
https://compactmag.com/article/the-pessimistic-case-for-the-future
usNthem: I saw that a few days ago and I agree – pretty good piece and surprisingly honest given his petty arguing with Zman. Anyone who is not pessimistic is not a realist. That does not mean giving into despair, but we have to deal with facts on the ground and the odds don’t seem that great.
Not to be optimistic (heh), but that Anton piece is a positive development. While he is marginally more based than most, Anton is at his core a civic nationalist. When people like him begin to smell the coffee, it shows awareness is widening.
Too little too late? Probably. But to employ one more cliche, better late than never.
I thought the same thing. That piece read like a set of DR talking points. Perhaps it is a, “Oh now what have we let them do!?!?”, moment. Still, the ending of it means perhaps the what comes next question will mean we have a seat at the table. Hopefully, because of their being the ones with some means who let this happen, we’ll be in sufficient numbers and in such a temperament that we’ll be at the head and in the most prominent seats.
Anton clambering aboard the good ship Dissident Right would be significant. If nothing else, other fine civnats might follow in his train. And if, at some point, the civnats converted to the DR en masse, we would be in bidniss and the Left would finally have something to really worry about.
Anton’s style is rather different from Z’s, but in terms of substance, this piece–the bit on the Constitution and natural rights excepted–could have been written by Z. If the article truly represents Anton’s current beliefs, he is a borderline DR right now.
Agreed. Anton has all but admitted the system failed, already is functionally dead, and what matters most is what comes next. This is more important short term than any direct affiliation with the DR. It is baffling to us that it takes so long for bright people to see the obvious, but entire careers have been built on what has to be acknowledged at some point to have been a lie. Anton has all but made that admission. I looked at some of his other pieces on the site. In a column that acknowledges the Regime never will allow Trump… Read more »
One of the most corrosive linguistic games being played is the conflation of nationalism with white supremacy.
Nationalism is just a love of country, and has no connection with anything else, unless it is being used by something else.
White supremacy, or any supremacy movement, is not necessarily nationalist.
Socialists are socialists regardless of what system they use, whether it’s nationalism or something else, like race, and it is the socialism that is corrosive in national socialism.
Because they aren’t against nationalism, they’re against white people.
Almost everything boils down to this. Who/whom.
I’m a White INFERIORITIST. If a White miscegenates with a j00, the resulting child is a j00. If a White miscegenates with a kneegr0w, the resulting child is a kneegr0w. If a White miscegenates with a street-sh!tter, the resulting child is a street-sh!tter. If a White miscegenates with a g00k, the resulting child is a g00k. This is a long round-about way of trying to illustrate that White genes are recessive, which is to say, INFERIOR, to all other hominid genes. Only Whites breeding with Whites can produce a White. And no other race can make this claim. White INFERIORITY.… Read more »
That goes back to Mustache Man. He was a nationalist, so nationalism is evil in their minds. By calling whites who might feel a bond with other whites “white nationalists,” our rulers are associating those whites with the Nazis. Basically, it’s yet another way to call us Nazis. Naturally, they’re being disingenuous, but they’re always lying, so nothing new there. However, I’d disagree with you to some degree. Nationalism does have a racial component. Nationalism is a devotion of a particular nation-state and a nation-state is a state created for a particular nation, i.e., a people who share a common… Read more »
Z: “In this clash between moral codes, the only question that matters is who will overcome whom?”
I’m telling youse guys, this is all meta-darwinism [meaning it’s a darwinism which supersedes the mere biological, and fights its wars in the arena of metaphysics].
And the Ghost of Charles Darwin always has the last laugh.
Chucky D says we’re weak so we’re dead, Ha Ha
A nation is a people, and an identity based on that composition…The US originally had that..It was English, Scots, and assorted white europeans…Now we are a mixture, a “melting pot” that doesn’t really melt anything…That’s why civ-nattery doesn’t work, and is resulting in disaster….
Leftists have never been known for their linguistic precision. They play fast and loose with language, redefining words to suit their needs, and all in service of their foul ideology. For them, language is merely a tool of power, and if conflating white supremacy and nationalism helps to confer odium on whitey, they’ll hardly scruple at doing it.
Ostei Kozelskii: “Leftists… play fast and loose with language… For them, language is merely a tool of power…” This is part & parcel of a point I was trying to make this weekend, which is that in altering the notion of “Science” away from “that which is known to be TRUE”, and instead demoting “Science” to be merely “that which is KNOWN”, the Left rendered “Science” meaningless, and begat the Irreproducibility Crisis. Compare: Derrida on Truth https://josephsoleary.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/02/4_derrida_on_tr.html PS: To the extent that “The Logos” is the pre-Logic which must exist before any formal logic or formal language can evolve into… Read more »
Ah shoot. Auto-upvoted before catching that foolishness about “muh socialisms” at the end.
No disrespect to Hariman, the first part is quite right, but please, ignore your enemy’s moral framing.
-“One of the most corrosive linguistic games being played is the conflation of nationalism with white supremacy.”
But not if that nationalism is for a certain “white” (sorta) ethnostate founded in 1948 on the eastern shore of the Mediterranean… then it’s quite kosher (ahem) to be a nationalist.
“Not only is peaceful coexistence not possible, but peaceful separation is also not acceptable to the new religion. In this clash between moral codes, the only question that matters is who will overcome whom?” This is also why the regime is losing its mind about Russia, China, India and other countries wanting to separate from the United States. Some of it is about raw power, of course, but part of it is about not allowing other ways of life to exist. In particular, the regime can’t allow other ways of life to exist in successful countries. The regime may not… Read more »
“Not only can the regime not tolerate dissent with the West, it has to crush it everywhere.” This is precisely why the clash with Putin isn’t a normal Regime fuck-fuck game and represents an existential threat to all of our lives. How can they sincerely believe Putin is Hitler (as perceived from the Left) and he not be destroyed, even if the GAE has to take out the rest of the world with him? My assumption now is that if the GAE has any adults remaining in the room (unlikely), they are too powerless to call off Armageddon once the… Read more »
The “few remaining non-retards” in GloboHomo leadership positions kept the GAE out of whatever trap the Prigozhin/Wagner affair of June, 2023 was supposed to have sprung.
So, there is hope…
“However, if China is a nationalist, conservative society that creates a prosperous people and a military that matches the United States…”
I’m not holding my breath.
An interesting tenet of the faith is that it is always year 0. It is always the current year, and always progressing forwards. They are often very wrong about the past themselves but it doesn’t matter. Anything in the past is barbaric, ignorant, and unenlightened. Even racist. The future is of course utopian, although some knuckle draggers just haven’t accepted their genius yet and resist change. The knuckle draggers are in 2 categories – those who just haven’t come around yet, but are decent people deep down. They just need some education. The vaccine hesitant. The other category are people… Read more »
The right can be guilty of this too, in reverse. For example, assuming that abortions didn’t happen before abortion was legalized. And assuming that everyone was a beacon of morality back in the day because most people went to church on Sunday.
Although that is much closer to the truth than what the modern progressive cult thinks. The right does idolize the past and it’s not good either. Think of how they want to go back to 1980 or 1950.
You wouldn’t prefer to live in 1983 or 1953 rather than 2023?
Unlike a focus on the future, which can only exist in the imagination, at least the people looking back can point to tangible reasons why it was better than the present.
Yeah, that’s a great point.
Whether this was B’s point or not, you cannot go back to any time period. If I could, I would use it as on opportunity to warn people.
“Don’t listen to these psychopaths going on about equality.”
“Don’t listen to this handsome, avuncular, great communicator that this amnesty is a one-off.”
And so forth.
But, yes, those time periods offer good exhibits in making a case to the handful of people who still will listen.
What B125 is saying about the past is we’re no longer there, we have to deal with the diverse physical reality of the present.
The zealots and the muds aren’t just going to rapture themselves away.
Every generation, in its adolescence, thinks it invented sex. Then you grow up. That last part seems to be missing a lot in AINO. But there’s no denying that in this age of more advanced birth control, sex has a very different meaning than it once did.
Great comment
“Sex would have been one of the few pleasures that a pre-technological people could experience”
With one goofy sentence.
The New Left has always resembled militant Islamic groups such as the Taliban and ISIL/ISIS. They seek to crush all difference, not just domestically, but abroad as well. Hell, they even both have a tendency to destroy historical monuments. The Taliban dynamite statues of Buddha; ISIL/ISIS bulldoze ancient Near Eastern cities; the New Left topples statues of Christian saints and Confederate soldiers. Not only must the present opposition be eliminated, so must reminders of past difference and alternative moral systems.
They have the impious habit of exhuming bodies.
@Zman said, “By definition, a moral code must be intolerant of other moral codes in order to remain a moral code.”
One step too far. It must only be intolerant of whatever moral codes are in opposition. A perfectly reasonable Christian take on sodomy is that it is a sin, but sins are between you and God. But it is also perfectly reasonable that a hard line is drawn when it involves middle aged men twerking in front of kindergarteners. In your bedroom, between consenting adults, none of my business. In public schools, heck, yes, it’s my business.
How can a clean flock exist then? If a sodomite wants to join your church, how can you maintain the moral order by saying, “It is not my business”? The belief is watered down, as is the morality. One of the reasons I like the Mormons and the Jehovah’s Witnesses is that they shun.
Lots of religious off shoots shun. This is when the sin becomes public and acceptance of the *unrepentant* sinner becomes an obvious conflict with the professed morality of the religion. But many (all?) religions accept that individuals “fall short” and have a process for redemption and return to the fold. However, that’s not an acceptance of the sin. I take “none of my business” in that light. Yeah, it’s a sort of “don’t ask, don’t tell”.
If I understand his point, if you keep it in the closet it’s between you and God. If you want public recognition of it, then the public has every right to say “That would be a ‘No.'”
Not just the twerking in front of kids, but gay “marriage” would be done too. Reality is 99.99% of any flock isn’t clean. The difference is they don’t normally flaunt their uncleanliness or hold it up publicly as cleanliness.
There is no such thing as a clean flock.
“All have sinned.”
There is a difference between opposition and action. On small matters, opposing systems my be in conflict without feeling the need to act upon difference. But with major flashpoints, tolerance is not an option. The opposing system must be crushed. And traditionally, this has applied to Christianity as well as to other moral systems. Modern Christianity, alas, which has lost all confidence in itself, tolerates all, including Satanism itself.
“‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. — Leviticus 20:13, NIV
Thats a fine example of our American religion, that is, moral code: “One part of your primary religion is pluralism,”.
America, remember, is unique in its history. We are not only an assemblage of multiple White tribes, but of multiple Amerindian, Negro, and Hebraic tribes as well. The pressure of that physical reality forced our culture to adapt.
(It was also the backdoor for the color revolution, the “Civil Rights” movement that tore down our developed traditions from day one.
As Ostei points out, our past was erased, our stone monuments sanded down, and a new past inscribed.)
At the Founding (1790), the US was 80% British and 98% Protestant. It’s all there in the Preamble and the Federalist papers. It was “multicultural” in the “Albion’s Seed” way. Even after “emancipation” there were blacks who weren’t citizens. Indians didn’t become citizens until 1924.
Ah. Agree, and I missed that key point: they couldn’t vote, thus little to no political power.
I guess that explains why the rebels found it necessary to translate the Declaration of Independence into German.
Steve: False. It is our business because the ‘slippery slope’ is real. Whatever you explicitly tolerate in private soon becomes public. The myth of public morality with private licentiousness is akin to the myth of social liberal/fiscal conservative. Life doesn’t work that way.
You’re hitting some of the correct answers here. Christ gave the examples. He did not “hang out” with prostitutes and open sinners and was “cool with it” as the Left likes to promote. He moved among them teaching and showing the way, but never compromised the message. When they were ready to repent and change he would liberate them from their former sins but always with the same admonition, “You are forgiven, now go and sin no more.” A true Christian community will perform outreach to the unclean in an attempt to bring them to the light, but will not… Read more »
“Christ gave the examples.”
Exactly. Modern Christianity of the kind that Ostei mentions is obsessed by “What Would Jesus Do?” when the real question any follower of Christ should be asking is, “What Did Jesus Do?” The former gives you man’s flawed interpretation of the Scriptures as we would apply them to our lives, the latter gives you the correct answer.
Yes. Yes to this Steve. Very concise. Perfectly distilled. Thank you.
I think we kid ourselves if we think this new religion is new. It may be about as old as Mormonism and Hegel. You could say Hegel was the spirit that hovered over the void, but he was still old world. This took root in the new world under the corrupt, crooked railroad lawyer, likely homosexual with known lesbian wife, we had as President in 1860. A certain radical faction of Republicans created the moral framework for this new religion, while the statist, atheistic side merged with it in the first half of the 20th Century, FDR, another one with… Read more »
You can count me among those who doubt Harper Lee wrote that agitprop. Whether she did or not, its timing and instant popularity were pretty suspicious. It’s been a long time since I read it but it was not exactly a page turner as I recall.
P.S. Come to think of it, they kind of give it away with the title don’t they
Zam! Biff, boom, kapow!
I’m not sure the analogy applies.
If individuals who lust for power cooperate in their efforts to obtain power, i.e. the ability to achieve one’s goals, there need be no further reduction.
“What will you do with your power?”
“I don’t know. I’ll decide as I go mindful of where my power leaves off.”
Competition and fanaticism may not be inevitable. Stalemate along adjusting edges can last a long time.
Otherwise known as a balance of power, yes?
I’m not sure I know what Z-Man means by “moral code,” but I do know that the discussion of it is superfluous here. It is enough to say that people have opposing wills and rival each other for power. A rival-will may make use of a moral pretext but it doesn’t depend on it. It throws it away as soon as it can do without it. Like the foregoing discussion of whether Leftism is a religion, this kind of talk only proceeds by adopting definitions so uselessly capacious that they cover everything. Leftism is only religion in a sense so… Read more »
“It is also why the people in charge aggressively hunt down people who hold beliefs that they see as dangerous to their beliefs. They automatically view white nationalists, for example, as violent, because from their perspective, people with such contrary beliefs must be violent” The problem is, they want us to accept their moral framing while at the same time, preaching the opposite moral framing to minorities. The minorities are encouraged and even expected to hate whitey and take offense to everything we do. If they don’t, our betters will get offended on their behalf. They don’t really preach tolerance… Read more »
Dude, Non-white will envy and hate white no matter what. Everybody know hard-work sucks, just con/looting others way more easier that’s why Liberalism aka white hating looting business is so popular among “minority” But here’s thing, five years ago Asian government sent few hundred refugee into the city in the island thing that happened is local people lift a picket and saying if you send these animals in our home you people won’t get any vote This is not some undeveloped country, we are talking about South Korea And Yeah, my people will tell you that they are against racism,… Read more »
“It is also why the people in charge aggressively hunt down people who hold beliefs that they see as dangerous to their beliefs. They automatically view white nationalists, for example, as violent, because from their perspective, people with such contrary beliefs must be violent”
This Sunday’s Portland Press Herald had a front page spread about white nationalists and the lede said they needed to be infiltrated, identified and crushed immediately.
These are the same people who said the State should nuke the Malheur refuge when the Bundys made their “stand”. Not knowing half those folks were feds, I guess. The “White nationalist” groups they envision don’t exist either except in their fevered imaginations; any such are one guy and five feds.
Indeed there is nothing to infiltrate, but that won’t stop them from trying to identify and crush
It is comical to think, that they think, that there is some organized white supremacist cabal out there keeping the darkies down. But some percentage of them really do believe I guess.
If I had the ability, I would endeavor to be a “white nationalist” that diligently stayed within the law. Imagine that your entire mission statement (well, perhaps not the written one) was that you assumed all your fellow members were actually Feds and that you were doing your level best to deprogram them.
The End of History is the final victory of the one true faith. Victory over fascism was a morale boost. Victory in the Cold War was the light at the end of the tunnel. Obama’s electoral victory was confirmation. Success strengthens the will, will becomes its own justification, ideology becomes religion. OT: I was thinking about Protestant nuttiness over the weekend. I think it goes like this: you have Jesus’ teachings, which are sometimes quite radical, and you have the church He founded, which an inherently conservative and hierarchical institution. I’d hazard to guess we Protestants spend more time reading… Read more »
Scripture states Jesus left us one church in which we would be in unity. So Protestants are part of the one holy catholic and apostolic church.
Scott Hahn has done some good writing on the topic.
Or… we could consider the Catholic Church to be the false prophets that mislead the masses. You know them by their fruits (you know – the gay child rapists).
Or we could consider the mainstream Protestant denominations as even more egregious in their lack of resistance against, or even their active seeking out, of homosexuals (and soon enough, trannies) to be their pastors and ministers whose very in your face example will further undermine the morality of their congregations by openly flouting heterosexuality as normative conduct. The Catholics, going back to St. Augustine, at least tried to protect the efficaciousness of the sacraments even in the hands of sinners. The Prots, with their emphasis on works, when they abandoned the very public “works” of their ministers and pastors as… Read more »
Who says I am defending protestants? You don’t excuse bad behavior with other bad behavior. And I would suggest the first vatican council put to bed any type of true traditionalism (which was already nonexistent).
I agree with that. Probably unsurprisingly, I’m a bit of a Christian pluralist lol. Just because everybody has a fence in the back yard doesn’t mean it’s not a community.
Right: Orthodox are schismatics, Protestants are “lite” heretics. Mohammodeans are “hardcore” heretics.
(I read the instruction manual to my new Dremel and digested what I could, but I don’t go around quoting it.)
Still – let’s present a united front!
“The One who leads forth their host by number,
He calls them all by name;
Because of the greatness of His might and the strength of His power,
Not one of them is missing.” Iss 40:26
There is room to stand under the banner.
I think the categories of emphasis- Church, Tradition, and Scripture- really pins down the “differences” in style, using the same material.
I’m so confident Painter has nailed it, I’m willing to bet we can see this same categorization in the different schools of other religions.
Even, better, I’d say it applies to institutions as a whole.
Except the Catholic position, as I understand it, is not a question of emphasis but balance. The image of the three legged stool (Church, Scripture, Tradition). Over-emphasis of one over the others results in an imbalance (at least that’s the theoretical framework). Protestants, seems to me, tend to practically ignore Church, as another “Church of the First Apostle of The Spirit, Des Moines” seems to pop up every time someone gets their knickers in a bunch.
Not much knowledge of the Orthodox, although their state cephalic churches seem to make Tradition a difficult concept to follow in practice.
Orthodox occlusion is an (unintentional?) result of centuries as either oppressed minorities of or in outright conflict with…The Mahommodeans.
Yes to all of this, but nuts & bolts matter. The One True Faith says that all white guys are bad, but most LEOs are white guys. And almost all LEOs follow orders reflexively, so LEO white guys will routinely persecute normie white guys because that is their job. And the insanity of this contradiction does not impede its reality. In Ukraine, white guys are killing white guys by the hundreds of thousands simply because Brandon is trying to hide his prior bribe-taking corruption there. And the same nonsense will eventually occur right here in River City. All dissident white… Read more »
I think all the “moral creed” idiocy of GAE is the tail wagged by the dog of globalist economics. No one really believes all the “lovey-dovey” we’re all the same BS except the shits who use it as a weapon. As Bukowski said, “Slavery was never abolished, it was only extended to include all the colors.” If you’re not a big professional and make a lot of money, you’re thrown in with the joggers and the rest. You’re fungible with every 3rd world citizen on the planet, even if you’re a thoughtful upstanding white guy who is just not that… Read more »
I think they do believe it though.
They probably didn’t a few generations back (talk 60s live 50s) but they genuinely believe their own BS now. Which is why they are so crazy, and dangerous.
But they don’t really believe we’re all the same. They believe whites are inferior because we are evil. Egalitarianism is just a ruse designed to convice whitey that he has nothing to fear from diversity. Ha. It is to laugh.
“… people are there to serve the economy…” so that happy merchants can sit, and eat, like effendi….
I am bemused that Z focused on the trans/pedo phenomenon which is minute compared to the COVID cult still hovering on the horizon waiting to engulf us as soon as an opportunity presents itself.
It’s something more than a “phenomenon” at this point. It is front and centre and becoming a big big deal.
You are correct about the COVID fanatics. But still….
They are all of a piece. It’s just a different ratchet, for the moment, to continue to turn minds in the same direction and further inflame. They have to mix it up. The maskoids map almost 1:1 with transoids and homosexualoids.
Wild how Frank Herbert’s ‘Dune’ predicted this.
The masked transoids are Ixians.
Their big secret, the ‘axolototl tanks’ used for reproduction, are headless females, clones kept only for their wombs.
I do believe Mr. Herbert was making a rather sly inference as well.
The secretive Ixians were transexual, with a weirdly intense religion of divine right; they insisted on selling banned technologies to anyone, kept their own defiant culture apart, and fiercely resisted any established order.
Ooos, axolotl tanks
I believe it was the Tleilaxu with the axolotl tanks. The Ixians were the machine culture that were always skirting the mores of the Butlerian Jihad.
Rereading Dune this week so it is fresh in my mind.
I’m afraid “Actually” is correct: it was the Bene Tleilaxu who were into into the biological manipulation, not the Ixians. The Ixians were machine makers who played “loose and fast” with established prohibitions against AI, etc. Guild Navigator: “We have just folded space from Ix. Many new machines on Ix, better than Richese…” (He’s taunting the Emperor: Ix is defying OUR religious tradition and YOUR law in violating the Orange Catholic commandment(s). You know this, and I state publicly that I know it, too, and now that I can hold this affirmation over your head, let’s get down to the… Read more »
ann thompson: Different goals and different scales. The Covid/scandemic phenomenon is merely an effective means of frightening people into compliance and control. The authorities will use whatever is convenient to hand for this purpose, and between the labs and the non-White invasion, there are a multitude of diseases, old and new, to choose from. But there always exists the possibility of a genuine cure and natural immunity. And mankind has dealt with the threat of disease since the beginning of time. And facing death is hardly new, novel, or unnatural. The transgender obscenity is newer, different, and far more fundamental.… Read more »
In the stories of Abraham and Jephthah we see Them offering their children to Yahweh. There are other passages in that anthology of human sacrifices to your Yaw. In Northwest Semitic, Baal means: lord, owner, proprietor, landlord, husband, etc. And MLK is the root word for to lead. For example, melek is king. Melek, malik molok, semitic shite. In the 1920s a large cache of tablets was found in Ugarit. The Holy Anthology leans heavily upon the Baal cycle found in those much older tablets. The Best-est Buddies copied stories from the surrounding nations. The changed the stories up to… Read more »
Not to mention all the Gamer Lore they cribbed from cuneiform literature during their Babylonian captivity. A small matter of the Flood being just one example.
José Millán-Astray got there first: ¡Viva la muerte!
“In the stories of Abraham and Jephthah we see Them offering their children to Yahweh. There are other passages in that anthology of human sacrifices to your Yaw.”
Cool story, bro.
“We are once again sacrificing children to Baal and Moloch.”
And genitalia to Cybele.
Well we have many balls to juggle at the moment.
Not that you care, you’re just trying to sow division.
Especially the balls that have been cut off.
Pervs, Hutus, Covidians–they’re all of a piece. Whom one focuses on doesn’t really matter all that much. Each object serves as a comprehensive example of Leftist derangement.
Don’t forget to stand with Ukraine and Keeeeve.
I agree with Brute Kulak, it’s all of a piece. The same globalist deep state institutions behind covid are behind trannyism. Proof? Gay marriage ignited across the western world as readily as George Floyd riots. A few faggots tucked here and there suddenly erupted into a bonfire of the vanities. Note how covid is being transmuted into climate-ism, just as civil rights morphed into rainbow rights, gay marriage into drag assault troops then political officers in HR. And why? So they can normalize selling children, organs, and chipping. This is an international crime ring at work, the GAE its janissary.… Read more »
Z’s emphasis on the primary religion is very important. The various nations of N. America have been kept within their respective polities by the practice and especially the mythology of civic nationalism. In this respect, the USA has been more successful than the Canadian federation. The key role of the liberal class in forming and developing the national civic religion is also important. For many decades the liberal class preached a unifying mythology that united their country. However, blinded by power, the liberal class began preaching ideas at odds with what was acceptable to ordinary people. Hence they, the liberal… Read more »
One side loves conflict. The other avoids it. So far it has been a rout. I think a large number of people have no idea how many ways their children are targets. The sexual deviance aspect is horrific, but just as or more awful is the anti-white project and the anti-West project that is much less visible, and thus far more insidious. Any person who either doesn’t know, or who is complacent has submitted. On the topic of religious idiocy … I was searching for a bit of info on the mass crucifixion on the Appian Way that ended the… Read more »
“One side loves conflict. The other avoids it. So far it has been a rout”
Exactly. This is why Trump’s surprise win flummoxed them so much, even as relatively insignificant as it proved to be. All previous “losses” had been of the Jason Alden triviality variety.
It also guarantees that any actual clash will be all the more bloody because (a) the assumption is only one side wins while the other loses and (b) the currently losing side has tremendous pent-up rage. I hope never to see this play out but it seems increasingly likely.
I was thinking of Jason Alden clown show when I was writing this. Same wavelength Jack Dodson. I share your sentiment. I hope to not see the conflagration that this looks like it is moving towards. One thing I try to remind myself of in this isolation is that a huge number of people are thinking, and more importantly, feeling what I am. I don’t know if it is right to call it the distance I have traveled in my thinking or the absolute right as rain feeling of total comfort and resolution with the fire that burns inside. One… Read more »
I am a Moms for Liberty type, and I have been wondering for years where the men are who will do something about this madness. If in the past decade or so they would have gotten up from the TV and at least rattled their sabers somewhat, we might not have fallen so precipitously down into this abyss. Then again, maybe it took the precipitousness and life in the depths of that abyss to get their attention. Either way, the passivity of the traditional American male, who suppressed every survival instinct he ever had after World War II, has been… Read more »
Too much sportsball. Hey it’s grillin’ season and NFL training camp is starting!!
Hey! WhereAreTheVikings. Perfect handle for this topic. I have to say that I reached out to a few chapters of Moms For Liberty and never heard back from them. One was in the district where my nieces and nephews think American history started with Native Americans and Frederick Douglass and is defined by slavery and where one classroom has a litterbox so the Furry doesn’t feel unwelcome and unsafe. True. In any case, I also did a lot of looking into what to do and concluded that if we do win, the battle will be so long my nieces and… Read more »
Society crumbles; blameless womyn hardest hit
No. No. No. No.
Don’t tell me that goddam Furry actually USES the litterbox.
Reality, I must ask, does the Furry actually use the litterbox?
What a delightful response, Reality Rules. My handle has been my plaintive cry in comment sections for almost a decade.
Full speed ahead with the home schooling. I home schooled and I have two grown children devoid of all the political correctness, neuroses, and inability to hold a conversation that so marks this younger generation. Best of luck! You will never regret it.
The first thing to happen to the American male, x120 MILLION was he was strapped into the circumrestraint and worked on with needles and pliers. Who’s ur boss now, kid?
In all seriousness, it’s a known fact, not to mention common sense, that torturing people leads to them being more docile, and for permanent yo. Of course no one likes to mention this history, cuz it’s embarrassing and shameful and disgusting, but it’s not as if it’s not topical in threads that are explicitly about mutilating children.
Luckily, the GAE is teetering. China and Russia have both banned the child molester alliance from being shown in public. Largely becuase what isn’t discussed above. Eventually those competing religious groups begin to signal what group they belong to by rejecting the mores of the Other. The tighter our enemies cling to a dying empire the better.
The only thing that sucks is that those parasites are clinging to our nation and will take it down with them. We need to find what comes next and quickly. Lest the sinking ship suck us into its vortex.
“You are not a Hindu, but you are fine with him being a Hindu and he seems to be fine with you being Jewish. In reality, the reason you two get along is you are both sublimating your religion to the moral code of American society which says you must accept different secondary religions. One part of your primary religion is pluralism, whether you know it or not.” This comes easily to both the Hindu and the Jew. For the Hindu, because even in his own country he has been living cheek-by-jowl with Christians, Jains, Buddhists, and in any case… Read more »
The creed’s denial of differences can’t be completely swept under the rug. Their solution for those pesky differences is to blame it all on Whitey. How long can this go on?
It can go on a very long time. My “anti racist” upbringing could be boiled down to “don’t be mean to black people.” Simple enough. To this I adhered from childhood into middle age, when it became apparent from Obama stoking the flames that it had not, could not, create harmony.
The “anti-racist” upbringing of today’s young whites teaches them to bend over backwards to support blacks. To this they likely will adhere into middle age, when perhaps they will realize that it has not created the promised harmony. By which time AINO will be more like 40% white.
you are fine with him being a Hindu and he seems to be fine with you being Jewish
—
Lol Z, you got us 😉
> You are not a Hindu, but you are fine with him being a Hindu and he seems to be fine with you being Jewish. In reality, the reason you two get along is you are both sublimating your religion to the moral code of American society which says you must accept different secondary religions. This has happened since forever, If one looks at the evolution of the McGuffey readers that were once a staple of schools, you would see a slow evolution from a strong Anglican bent, to more generic protestant, to Christian, to a sort of vague deism.… Read more »
Interesting piece today. And a good snapshot of how things are proceeding towards kinetic conflict.
I do have one question for Z and it’s this;
The people around where my farm is are mostly Amish and Mennonite.
I have never felt or seen any hostility towards “English”, or outsiders, and I do think that their community is rock solid. In other words, it doesn’t appear that they need to justify their faith/lifestyle by attacking other religions.
Are they simply an outlier, or am I missing something?
The Amish will be the last group on ZOG’s Elimination List.
all bets are off when the city folk arrive, hungry and unwilling to labor…
I think outlier is right. For the beautiful people, Amish country is a live action museum they can visit. On Monday they can tell their friends about their trip to the Amish market.
Disagree. By way of analogy, think of the forever war between Yankee Puritans and white Southerners. The former subdues the latter in a bloody, unjustifiable war and occupies their region for more than a decade. Things lighten up for almost a century, and the Yankee Puritans then decide the Southerners have no right of free association. After another decade or two, things lighten up once again. And, back to the future, after almost a half century passes, the Yankee Puritans decide the Southerners no longer have a right to celebrate their heritage and culture or to have statues and monuments.… Read more »
And lest we end up confused by our “education” systems continual propaganda that this tiff was about slavery, remember that the Southern Baptists and Methodists were the ones preaching abolition. Now, granted, not civ nat abolition of the Yankees, but more of a race realist view that while these people should not be slaves, they cannot live here. Back to Africa with them.
The eye of sauron is on them. It knows they must be destroyed.
Interestingly, the genetic nature of the Amish are probably more “Amish” than the original settlers, as the others got boiled off and joined greater society. They probably now have more of a radical cohesiveness than any other group now, including Traditional Jews.
If the State goes after them, it will be interesting to see how far their non-violence goes.
Not very far would be my guess.
I’ll mildly disagree with Bartleby in that the Amish, I think, are only slightly better than “Jew-Nice” to the ‘english’. They’re also comparatively violent given their penchant for hunting and their treatment of animals in general. I used to think the “non-violence” aspect of their culture was an embedded religious aspect but I’m now more of a mind that it’s just a way to stay off the radar of GAE society. If they’re ever forced onto the “radar” though, well, all bets are off.
The odds are tremendous that the police state apparatus routinely surveils the Amish. It probably makes it mad that the Amish don’t use the ‘Net and therefore require the more expensive, labor-intensive old methods.
Sure but just think of the pension-enhancing overtime the pigs can rack up.
The Amish are confident in their faith. That gives them courage and a quiet resolve.
The elites and their woke disciples are the opposite. They know, but will never admit, that their faith is nonsense. It’s a religion for cowards who always are on the attack because they are scared.
This is key. If a group of blue-haired harpies turned up in Amish country shouting about racism, the Amish would simply shrug and ignore them. The moral claims of the harpies would not register with them. That is the key to resistance. Never accept the other side’s moral framework.
Never start a sentence with “I’m not racist, but…..”
Exactly. That’s how you beat them, by simply ignoring them.
The caveat is of course you need a community of like minded people to be able to ignore them. Most of us rely on the system to some degree for a job, etc.
America’s current strategy against the Amish is to fine them to death for nonconformance with USDA rules, a miniature version of the EU’s regulatory dispossession of farmers.
They can resist an alien invasion, but they can’t afford lawyers.
You have all but said “I live in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.” Am I right? Pretty country (at least, this was the case nearly half a century ago when I visited the area). Any region having Blue Balls, and its remedy, Intercourse, cannot be all bad 😀 On a serious note, I’d say your observation about these sects not tending to prosletyze is very accurate. I don’t know their histories in detail, but unless I’m mistaken, seeking to live apart peacefully has always been a key trait. I dare say they are outliers. Alas, the rule in history is the group… Read more »
Not sure if LDS (Mormons) are considered a Christian sect. I have lived near some of their earliest settlements, but not ever intermingled socially with them, or had our children become acquainted in school. Yesterday I received a notice from a genealogy service I belong to that’s run by LDS telling me of a family connection that I was unaware of. It seems my gggrandma had a brother who fell in with the Mormons in OH then Nauvoo IL; his daughter Rebecca married a man related to Joseph Smith and they were baptized in the LDS ceremony. Included in this… Read more »
The Amish are, at the end of the day, Christians. As Christians, we have to honor and respect others as having been created in God’s image.
Any relationship you have with an Amish will be purely transactional. They will sell you stuff so that they can fund their operations. That’s about as far as it goes.
But right wingers always assume they’re on our “side” because they are white and conservative. I would disagree with that, they are on their own side, doing their own thing. They don’t really want anything to do with you or your politics.
The central tenet that drives all Amish behavior is the Biblical injunction, Be Not Conformed To This World. The Amish do not seek to live apart from you. The Amish do not have any hostility towards you. The Amish are not engaged in cynically using you to fund “their operations.” The Amish are obeying God and not conforming to the world. You and I are of the world; we dress in the changing modes of fashion( the world), we employ labor saving devices leading to idleness ( the world), we have a lifetime of assumptions based on the wisdom of… Read more »
I don’t really get the feeling they’re holding secret barn meetings vowing eternal vengeance on the Little Debbie Snack Cakes people, no.
They tolerate outsiders because they only have to deal with them tangentially. Their communities are quite hermetic, which means they experience diversity only obliquely. If, at some point, diversity is imposed upon the Amish/Mannonites in a very intimate way, their behavior toward out groups will change and change dramatically.